Latest / Safe Aerospace Podcast / “That's No Balloon!”: F-18 Pilot Reconsiders His UAP Encounter | Austin Hulbert

Transcript

“That's No Balloon!”: F-18 Pilot Reconsiders His UAP Encounter | Austin Hulbert · Safe Aerospace Podcast

• 0:00
  Called him
• 0:00
  on the
• 0:00
  radio.
• 0:01
  No
• 0:01
  response.
• 0:02
  Really?
• 0:02
  The
• 0:02
  hell is this?
• 0:03
  So we go
• 0:04
  up.
• 0:04
  We
• 0:04
  try to fly
• 0:05
  by it,
• 0:06
  and we see
• 0:06
  the track
• 0:06
  file come
• 0:07
  by the window
• 0:07
  and
• 0:08
  we're like,
• 0:08
  did you see
• 0:09
  anything?
• 0:09
  He was
• 0:10
  like, oh,
• 0:10
  I don't
• 0:10
  see
• 0:10
  anything.
• 0:11
  So like,
• 0:12
  what
• 0:12
  the hell?
• 0:12
  So
• 0:12
  turn
• 0:12
  around,
• 0:13
  check out
• 0:14
  a few
• 0:14
  miles, turn
• 0:14
  back around
• 0:15
  and pick it
• 0:15
  up on
• 0:15
  radar
• 0:16
  again.
• 0:16
  We're like,
• 0:17
  what the hell
• 0:17
  is this
• 0:18
  thing?
• 0:18
  So
• 0:18
  we fly up
• 0:19
  and we
• 0:20
  go
• 0:20
  by again.
• 0:20
  We
• 0:20
  don't see
• 0:21
  anything.
• 0:22
  We're like,
• 0:22
  son of
• 0:22
  a bitch.
• 0:23
  Yeah.
• 0:23
  It's weird,
• 0:24
  right?
• 0:24
  Because,
• 0:24
  like,
• 0:24
  he trusts
• 0:25
  these tools.
• 0:25
  And
• 0:25
  I've told
• 0:26
  people this
• 0:26
  before.
• 0:27
  This
• 0:27
  is such a
• 0:27
  good point.
• 0:28
  I've been
• 0:28
  in that
• 0:29
  same
• 0:29
  scenario
• 0:30
  where
• 0:30
  I'm like,
• 0:30
  I need
• 0:30
  to go
• 0:31
  fly up and
• 0:31
  see
• 0:31
  this thing,
• 0:32
  and then
• 0:32
  I can't.
• 0:32
  But you're
• 0:33
  you're
• 0:34
  getting
• 0:34
  right up
• 0:35
  to it,
• 0:35
  using
• 0:35
  the tools
• 0:36
  that you
• 0:36
  trust
• 0:37
  your life
• 0:37
  with
• 0:37
  every day.
• 0:38
  And it's
• 0:38
  very
• 0:38
  unsettling
• 0:39
  feeling
• 0:39
  when
• 0:39
  all of a
• 0:40
  sudden
• 0:40
  you're
• 0:40
  like,
• 0:40
  is it
• 0:41
  my eyes
• 0:41
  feeling?
• 0:42
  So we
• 0:42
  pitched
• 0:42
  back around
• 0:43
  a third
• 0:43
  time,
• 0:43
  slow down
• 0:44
  really
• 0:44
  slow,
• 0:45
  and
• 0:45
  we go by
• 0:46
  and we
• 0:46
  finally
• 0:47
  pick
• 0:47
  something
• 0:47
  up.
• 0:48
  It goes,
• 0:48
  it goes.
• 0:49
  Zooming by.
• 0:50
  We're like,
• 0:50
  oh,
• 0:52
  How is
• 0:53
  it
• 0:53
  behaving?
• 1:05
  In the
• 1:05
  safe?
• 1:05
  Aerospace
• 1:06
  podcasts.
• 1:07
  I'm Ryan
• 1:07
  Graves,
• 1:08
  joined
• 1:09
  today
• 1:09
  by Austin
• 1:10
  Homer. Yo.
• 1:12
  Austin
• 1:12
  is a former
• 1:12
  F-18 pilot.
• 1:13
  Our career
• 1:14
  did
• 1:14
  actually
• 1:15
  intersect
• 1:15
  for a
• 1:15
  little
• 1:16
  while.
• 1:16
  Not sure
• 1:16
  exactly
• 1:17
  what year.
• 1:17
  I guess
• 1:17
  2012.
• 1:18
  Maybe late
• 1:19
  2011? Yeah.
• 1:21
  So when
• 1:21
  I was
• 1:22
  a student
• 1:22
  in VFA 106,
• 1:24
  which is
• 1:24
  the Fleet
• 1:25
  Replacement
• 1:25
  Squadron,
• 1:26
  or the Rag
• 1:27
  as we
• 1:27
  call it,
• 1:28
  learning
• 1:28
  the F-18
• 1:29
  for the
• 1:29
  first time
• 1:30
  amongst
• 1:31
  all of the,
• 1:32
  you know,
• 1:32
  instructors
• 1:33
  I had
• 1:33
  there,
• 1:33
  you were
• 1:33
  one of them
• 1:34
  specifically
• 1:35
  when I
• 1:35
  was going
• 1:36
  to the boat
• 1:36
  for the
• 1:36
  first time
• 1:37
  when you
• 1:37
  were acting
• 1:37
  as a
• 1:38
  landing
• 1:38
  signal
• 1:38
  officer.
• 1:39
  So when
• 1:40
  I moved
• 1:40
  back or
• 1:41
  not back,
• 1:41
  but
• 1:42
  when I moved
• 1:42
  to Austin,
• 1:43
  Texas,
• 1:44
  you were
• 1:44
  one of
• 1:44
  the few
• 1:45
  F-18 pilots
• 1:45
  that were
• 1:46
  here
• 1:46
  in town.
• 1:47
  And so
• 1:47
  here we are.
• 1:48
  Thanks for
• 1:48
  joining me
• 1:48
  today.
• 1:49
  Yeah,
• 1:49
  thanks for
• 1:49
  having me,
• 1:50
  FOBs.
• 1:50
  Yeah,
• 1:51
  let's
• 1:51
  just start
• 1:52
  a little
• 1:52
  bit.
• 1:52
  Learn
• 1:53
  a little bit
• 1:53
  about yourself.
• 1:54
  What brought you
• 1:55
  to fly in?
• 1:56
  How did you
• 1:56
  get through?
• 1:57
  How do you
• 1:58
  commission
• 1:58
  and
• 1:58
  what was
• 1:59
  your career
• 1:59
  progression
• 1:59
  like? Yeah.
• 2:00
  So
• 2:00
  I grew up
• 2:01
  in a Navy
• 2:01
  family.
• 2:02
  My
• 2:02
  dad was a
• 2:03
  fighter
• 2:03
  pilot.
• 2:04
  My
• 2:04
  mom was in the Navy.
• 2:05
  She was an
• 2:06
  enlisted
• 2:07
  place.
• 2:07
  She was a plane
• 2:08
  captain
• 2:08
  and then
• 2:09
  was a crew
• 2:09
  chief on
• 2:10
  a seni
• 2:11
  sky trains.
• 2:11
  And so
• 2:13
  aviation
• 2:13
  has kind
• 2:14
  of always
• 2:14
  been
• 2:15
  in the family.
• 2:16
  So we
• 2:16
  grew up in
• 2:16
  San Diego
• 2:17
  on,
• 2:18
  you know,
• 2:18
  Miramar.
• 2:18
  So always
• 2:20
  seeing jets
• 2:20
  going.
• 2:21
  Weather in.
• 2:21
  The world.
• 2:22
  That's why
• 2:22
  they're in
• 2:22
  the world.
• 2:23
  Yeah.
• 2:23
  My baby,
• 2:24
  my
• 2:24
  babysitter
• 2:24
  was pretty
• 2:25
  much
• 2:25
  already
• 2:25
  room.
• 2:25
  So my
• 2:26
  dad would
• 2:26
  bring us in
• 2:27
  to work.
• 2:28
  And you
• 2:28
  know,
• 2:29
  we didn't
• 2:29
  have
• 2:29
  a babysitter
• 2:29
  at home.
• 2:30
  We just hang
• 2:30
  out in
• 2:31
  the ready
• 2:31
  room.
• 2:32
  John Marker
• 2:33
  is on this,
• 2:33
  you know,
• 2:34
  on the
• 2:34
  whiteboard.
• 2:35
  And,
• 2:35
  you know,
• 2:35
  all the
• 2:35
  fighter
• 2:36
  pilots
• 2:36
  who come in
• 2:36
  and
• 2:37
  hang out
• 2:37
  and keep
• 2:38
  his company
• 2:38
  while
• 2:38
  he'd fly.
• 2:39
  So from
• 2:39
  an
• 2:39
  early age,
• 2:40
  I wanted
• 2:40
  to be
• 2:40
  a fighter
• 2:41
  pilot.
• 2:42
  And,
• 2:43
  you know,
• 2:43
  fortunately,
• 2:44
  with
• 2:44
  the dad
• 2:45
  is a
• 2:45
  fighter
• 2:45
  pilot,
• 2:46
  it was easy
• 2:46
  to
• 2:46
  figure out
• 2:47
  what
• 2:47
  the route
• 2:47
  was to,
• 2:48
  to make
• 2:48
  that happen.
• 2:48
  So we moved
• 2:50
  out of
• 2:50
  California
• 2:51
  after
• 2:52
  his command
• 2:52
  tour ended.
• 2:53
  Moved to
• 2:53
  Memphis.
• 2:54
  He was a Fedex
• 2:54
  guy, so
• 2:56
  grew up in
• 2:57
  rural
• 2:57
  Memphis
• 2:58
  from like
• 2:58
  nine years
• 2:59
  on, and
• 2:59
  then after
• 3:00
  high school
• 3:00
  went to the
• 3:01
  Naval
• 3:01
  Academy
• 3:02
  and
• 3:02
  did that
• 3:03
  for
• 3:03
  four years.
• 3:04
  While I was
• 3:04
  there,
• 3:04
  I did
• 3:05
  an aviation
• 3:06
  career.
• 3:06
  He's got
• 3:06
  a ride
• 3:06
  in the back
• 3:07
  seat of
• 3:07
  a Tomcat,
• 3:08
  did two
• 3:08
  flights
• 3:08
  and
• 3:09
  Hornets.
• 3:09
  So I my
• 3:11
  Tomcat one
• 3:12
  our patch
• 3:12
  on.
• 3:12
  So on
• 3:13
  the inside.
• 3:13
  Of my
• 3:13
  too many,
• 3:14
  many people
• 3:15
  in our age
• 3:16
  group
• 3:16
  have that
• 3:16
  type of
• 3:17
  record in
• 3:18
  their
• 3:18
  logbook.
• 3:18
  Yeah.
• 3:19
  That's
• 3:19
  cool.
• 3:19
  It was
• 3:19
  pretty
• 3:19
  awesome.
• 3:20
  It was F-14
• 3:20
  A to
• 3:21
  the
• 3:21
  Checkmates,
• 3:21
  who I ended
• 3:22
  up flying
• 3:22
  with in
• 3:22
  the fleet.
• 3:23
  So did
• 3:23
  flight
• 3:24
  school.
• 3:24
  Started
• 3:24
  with the
• 3:25
  Air Force
• 3:25
  doing the
• 3:25
  exchange
• 3:26
  flight
• 3:27
  training up
• 3:27
  in
• 3:28
  Oklahoma,
• 3:28
  then
• 3:29
  Kingsville
• 3:29
  for T 45
• 3:30
  A's on
• 3:31
  the boat
• 3:31
  and 106
• 3:33
  out of 106
• 3:34
  got the Checkmates,
• 3:35
  which is
• 3:36
  two
• 3:36
  seat FS.
• 3:37
  We were flying
• 3:37
  with ASA
• 3:38
  radars,
• 3:39
  so we were
• 3:40
  one of like
• 3:40
  two
• 3:41
  squadrons
• 3:41
  on the fly
• 3:42
  line of aces.
• 3:43
  And
• 3:44
  then did
• 3:44
  that work
• 3:45
  up cycle.
• 3:45
  We're
• 3:46
  on the enterprise.
• 3:46
  So you know
• 3:47
  constant
• 3:48
  sliding of
• 3:49
  deployment,
• 3:49
  which was
• 3:50
  frustrating
• 3:50
  because
• 3:51
  we wanted
• 3:51
  to go
• 3:51
  on
• 3:51
  deployment
• 3:52
  really bad.
• 3:53
  But it was
• 3:53
  great
• 3:53
  because
• 3:53
  we were
• 3:53
  always
• 3:54
  funded
• 3:54
  as if we
• 3:54
  were going
• 3:55
  on
• 3:55
  deployment.
• 3:55
  So
• 3:55
  we ended up
• 3:55
  flying
• 3:56
  a ton.
• 3:57
  We didn't
• 3:57
  have that
• 3:57
  normal
• 3:58
  cycle
• 3:58
  where you
• 3:59
  come back
• 3:59
  home,
• 3:59
  funding
• 4:00
  dries up.
• 4:00
  There's not
• 4:00
  a lot of
• 4:01
  flight
• 4:01
  hours.
• 4:01
  We were
• 4:01
  just always
• 4:02
  funded
• 4:03
  with the
• 4:03
  exception
• 4:03
  of like
• 4:03
  a couple
• 4:04
  sequester
• 4:04
  times.
• 4:05
  So we had,
• 4:06
  you know,
• 4:06
  phenomenal
• 4:07
  leadership,
• 4:07
  super
• 4:08
  tactical,
• 4:08
  all Top Gun
• 4:09
  guys.
• 4:10
  So,
• 4:11
  you know,
• 4:11
  they're
• 4:11
  really big
• 4:12
  about doing
• 4:13
  a lot
• 4:13
  of air
• 4:14
  to air
• 4:14
  stuff and,
• 4:15
  you know,
• 4:15
  really
• 4:15
  getting
• 4:16
  good.
• 4:16
  So
• 4:16
  they made
• 4:16
  us great
• 4:17
  and
• 4:18
  ended up
• 4:18
  deploying
• 4:19
  went out to
• 4:19
  Afghanistan
• 4:20
  2011
• 4:21
  and then
• 4:22
  came back
• 4:22
  and did
• 4:23
  the work
• 4:23
  ups for the
• 4:23
  next appointment
• 4:24
  and then
• 4:25
  went to
• 4:25
  the rag
• 4:26
  in 2011,
• 4:27
  2012,
• 4:29
  which
• 4:29
  I think
• 4:29
  was about
• 4:30
  the time
• 4:31
  you were
• 4:31
  done with
• 4:32
  all your
• 4:33
  fighter
• 4:33
  and BFM,
• 4:34
  because
• 4:34
  I think
• 4:34
  you joined
• 4:35
  the Rippers
• 4:35
  on
• 4:35
  deployment.
• 4:36
  I did,
• 4:36
  yeah, yeah.
• 4:38
  Because
• 4:38
  you're one
• 4:38
  of our guys.
• 4:39
  So
• 4:39
  one of my
• 4:40
  earlier
• 4:40
  boats.
• 4:41
  So I came
• 4:41
  out of
• 4:42
  the
• 4:42
  Checkmates
• 4:42
  with my Winkle
• 4:43
  and then
• 4:44
  went into
• 4:44
  106,
• 4:45
  started
• 4:46
  doing
• 4:46
  the
• 4:46
  training
• 4:46
  qual stuff
• 4:47
  there.
• 4:47
  And that's
• 4:47
  when I was
• 4:49
  your
• 4:49
  I think
• 4:50
  I wasn't
• 4:50
  your head
• 4:50
  lso, but
• 4:51
  I was
• 4:51
  one of your
• 4:52
  LSO because
• 4:53
  I remember
• 4:53
  writing
• 4:54
  seeing
• 4:54
  your name
• 4:54
  in the book
• 4:55
  all the time
• 4:55
  for, for
• 4:56
  your passes
• 4:57
  and
• 4:57
  obviously
• 4:58
  as.
• 4:58
  A year
• 4:58
  line.
• 4:59
  Not okay.
• 4:59
  Underline
• 5:00
  the.
• 5:00
  Well you're
• 5:01
  pretty good
• 5:01
  because
• 5:02
  the guys
• 5:03
  you have
• 5:03
  to pay
• 5:03
  special
• 5:04
  attention
• 5:04
  to to
• 5:05
  make
• 5:05
  sure that
• 5:05
  they're
• 5:05
  ready to
• 5:06
  go out
• 5:06
  to the fleet.
• 5:06
  So once
• 5:07
  you got
• 5:08
  called a
• 5:08
  it's like,
• 5:09
  hey,
• 5:09
  this guy's
• 5:09
  ready to go
• 5:10
  and then
• 5:10
  you're out
• 5:10
  the door.
• 5:11
  So and
• 5:11
  then I did,
• 5:12
  you know,
• 5:12
  a couple
• 5:12
  more years
• 5:13
  at 106
• 5:14
  at
• 5:14
  the end of
• 5:15
  that time
• 5:15
  went out to
• 5:17
  the cock.
• 5:18
  It was a
• 5:18
  dynamic
• 5:18
  targeting
• 5:19
  officer
• 5:19
  during the
• 5:19
  ISIS stuff,
• 5:20
  which is fun.
• 5:21
  What is the
• 5:21
  kick.
• 5:21
  For people
• 5:22
  that
• 5:22
  might not.
• 5:22
  Know
• 5:23
  the
• 5:23
  combined
• 5:24
  Air and
• 5:24
  Space
• 5:25
  Operations
• 5:25
  Center
• 5:25
  on a value
• 5:26
  deed?
• 5:26
  So it's
• 5:26
  basically
• 5:27
  where
• 5:27
  the US runs
• 5:28
  all the
• 5:28
  air war
• 5:29
  for Iraq,
• 5:30
  Afghanistan,
• 5:31
  anything
• 5:31
  in the sun
• 5:32
  or all
• 5:34
  the air
• 5:34
  stuff
• 5:35
  is
• 5:35
  controlled
• 5:35
  out
• 5:35
  of the chaos.
• 5:36
  So
• 5:36
  all the stuff
• 5:36
  they're
• 5:36
  doing
• 5:36
  right now
• 5:37
  against
• 5:37
  Iran,
• 5:37
  the dynamic
• 5:38
  targeting,
• 5:39
  that's all
• 5:39
  being done
• 5:39
  out of
• 5:40
  the chaos,
• 5:40
  out of
• 5:40
  that same
• 5:41
  desk.
• 5:41
  You know,
• 5:41
  that job
• 5:42
  was
• 5:42
  phenomenal.
• 5:43
  It was you're
• 5:44
  fighting
• 5:44
  your own
• 5:44
  little war.
• 5:45
  No one,
• 5:46
  kind of
• 5:46
  no one
• 5:47
  was
• 5:47
  telling you
• 5:47
  what
• 5:47
  the targets
• 5:48
  were.
• 5:48
  You were
• 5:48
  just
• 5:48
  building
• 5:49
  your own
• 5:49
  targets,
• 5:50
  finding
• 5:50
  your own
• 5:50
  people,
• 5:51
  doing
• 5:51
  your own
• 5:51
  strikes.
• 5:52
  And you
• 5:52
  had to go
• 5:53
  straight to
• 5:53
  the general
• 5:54
  to get
• 5:54
  permission
• 5:55
  to strike.
• 5:55
  And
• 5:55
  that was it.
• 5:56
  I always
• 5:56
  thought
• 5:56
  that would
• 5:56
  have been
• 5:57
  an
• 5:57
  interesting
• 5:57
  opportunity,
• 5:58
  though.
• 5:58
  I know
• 5:59
  some people
• 5:59
  complain
• 6:00
  about
• 6:01
  that role
• 6:01
  sometimes,
• 6:02
  at least
• 6:02
  in theory,
• 6:02
  but I think
• 6:03
  they enjoy it
• 6:03
  when
• 6:03
  they get there.
• 6:04
  But I mean,
• 6:05
  those are
• 6:05
  the people
• 6:05
  that we're
• 6:06
  talking
• 6:06
  to flying
• 6:07
  around up
• 6:07
  there.
• 6:07
  You can kind
• 6:08
  of,
• 6:08
  you know,
• 6:08
  you
• 6:08
  get the sense
• 6:09
  there's
• 6:09
  a lot of
• 6:09
  important
• 6:10
  things
• 6:10
  happening
• 6:10
  there,
• 6:10
  right?
• 6:11
  And you
• 6:12
  kind of
• 6:12
  get a
• 6:12
  big picture
• 6:13
  view of
• 6:13
  what's
• 6:13
  happening.
• 6:14
  And you see
• 6:14
  all the
• 6:15
  secret ops
• 6:15
  going on.
• 6:16
  It's a
• 6:17
  really eye
• 6:17
  opening,
• 6:18
  rewarding
• 6:18
  experience.
• 6:19
  And then
• 6:20
  I got off
• 6:20
  active
• 6:20
  duty,
• 6:21
  went to
• 6:21
  Harvard,
• 6:21
  got an MBA.
• 6:23
  I worked
• 6:23
  at McKinsey
• 6:24
  for a
• 6:24
  couple
• 6:24
  of years,
• 6:25
  transferred
• 6:25
  to the Air
• 6:26
  Force
• 6:26
  Reserve,
• 6:28
  did a
• 6:28
  combat air
• 6:28
  advising
• 6:29
  job in
• 6:29
  the Air
• 6:30
  Force
• 6:30
  Reserve at
• 6:30
  Asac,
• 6:32
  and now
• 6:32
  here I am
• 6:32
  now.
• 6:33
  Very cool.
• 6:34
  Kind of
• 6:34
  like Joe
• 6:35
  into
• 6:35
  a little bit.
• 6:35
  And they're
• 6:36
  the OC,
• 6:37
  if that's
• 6:37
  okay. Yeah.
• 6:38
  First off,
• 6:38
  was it
• 6:39
  a stand
• 6:39
  for.
• 6:39
  And
• 6:40
  then now
• 6:40
  what does
• 6:41
  that mean
• 6:41
  you actually
• 6:41
  do now.
• 6:42
  So Air
• 6:43
  Force
• 6:43
  Special
• 6:43
  Operations
• 6:44
  Command is
• 6:45
  basically
• 6:45
  the,
• 6:47
  you know,
• 6:47
  Air Forces
• 6:49
  Command
• 6:50
  that
• 6:51
  provides
• 6:51
  units
• 6:51
  to support.
• 6:52
  So calm.
• 6:53
  So
• 6:53
  that can be
• 6:53
  anything
• 6:54
  from,
• 6:55
  you know,
• 6:56
  Keats PJs.
• 6:57
  So your
• 6:58
  combat
• 6:58
  controllers
• 6:59
  parachute
• 7:00
  your rescue
• 7:01
  min
• 7:02
  tac piece,
• 7:03
  which
• 7:03
  are your
• 7:04
  basic jacks
• 7:05
  that are
• 7:05
  embedded
• 7:06
  with Army
• 7:06
  units
• 7:06
  all the way
• 7:07
  through
• 7:07
  specter
• 7:07
  gunships.
• 7:08
  They have Ospreys
• 7:09
  that
• 7:09
  support
• 7:10
  JSOC
• 7:10
  and also
• 7:11
  all kinds
• 7:12
  of other
• 7:12
  special
• 7:12
  operations
• 7:13
  activities,
• 7:14
  12,
• 7:14
  which are
• 7:14
  the 28
• 7:15
  which do
• 7:16
  a lot of
• 7:17
  soft
• 7:17
  Overwatch
• 7:18
  kind of
• 7:18
  armed
• 7:18
  Overwatch
• 7:19
  role.
• 7:20
  And then
• 7:20
  there's
• 7:20
  two other
• 7:21
  communities
• 7:21
  in South
• 7:22
  which is
• 7:22
  non
• 7:22
  centered
• 7:22
  aviation.
• 7:23
  So soft
• 7:24
  logistics
• 7:24
  moving guys
• 7:24
  around
• 7:25
  the world.
• 7:25
  And then
• 7:25
  there was
• 7:25
  a community
• 7:26
  called
• 7:26
  CAA Combat
• 7:27
  Air
• 7:27
  Advising,
• 7:27
  which is
• 7:28
  basically
• 7:29
  the Air
• 7:29
  Force
• 7:29
  took the
• 7:30
  kind of
• 7:31
  Green Beret
• 7:31
  mission
• 7:32
  set.
• 7:32
  And
• 7:33
  they were
• 7:33
  like hey,
• 7:33
  we want to
• 7:34
  we want to
• 7:34
  do that.
• 7:34
  Both
• 7:35
  airplanes.
• 7:35
  And so
• 7:36
  they built
• 7:36
  this
• 7:37
  community
• 7:37
  that embeds
• 7:38
  with host
• 7:39
  nations
• 7:39
  and partner
• 7:40
  nations
• 7:40
  and then
• 7:40
  teaches
• 7:41
  them how
• 7:42
  to do,
• 7:43
  you know,
• 7:43
  X, whatever
• 7:44
  that X may
• 7:45
  be in
• 7:46
  their own
• 7:46
  aircraft.
• 7:46
  So
• 7:47
  the kind of
• 7:47
  a good
• 7:48
  example
• 7:48
  would be
• 7:49
  we are
• 7:49
  building up
• 7:50
  the
• 7:50
  Lebanese
• 7:52
  Close
• 7:52
  Air Support
• 7:53
  and TAC
• 7:53
  P program.
• 7:54
  So guys
• 7:54
  are getting
• 7:55
  called up
• 7:55
  in caravans
• 7:56
  and A29
• 7:57
  and then
• 7:58
  going over
• 7:58
  to Lebanon
• 7:59
  and flying
• 7:59
  those
• 7:59
  aircraft
• 8:00
  to teach
• 8:01
  Lebanese
• 8:01
  pilots
• 8:02
  how to
• 8:02
  integrate
• 8:02
  with with
• 8:03
  ground forces.
• 8:04
  So in
• 8:05
  a lot of
• 8:06
  kind of
• 8:06
  we'll
• 8:06
  call it
• 8:07
  non first
• 8:07
  world
• 8:07
  nations.
• 8:08
  The military
• 8:09
  is very
• 8:09
  stovepipe.
• 8:10
  So there's
• 8:10
  not a
• 8:10
  lot of
• 8:11
  joint
• 8:11
  integration.
• 8:12
  And
• 8:12
  a lot of
• 8:12
  that goes
• 8:13
  back to,
• 8:14
  you know,
• 8:14
  the days
• 8:14
  where
• 8:15
  the military's
• 8:15
  would have
• 8:16
  coups
• 8:16
  all the time.
• 8:16
  So
• 8:16
  they didn't
• 8:17
  want the
• 8:17
  military
• 8:18
  having all
• 8:18
  this power
• 8:18
  to
• 8:19
  overthrow
• 8:19
  the elected
• 8:19
  government.
• 8:20
  So
• 8:20
  they kind
• 8:20
  of
• 8:20
  stovepipe
• 8:21
  them.
• 8:21
  So a lot of
• 8:21
  countries
• 8:22
  benefit
• 8:23
  from
• 8:23
  having,
• 8:24
  you know,
• 8:24
  the Air
• 8:24
  Force
• 8:25
  working on
• 8:25
  that side,
• 8:25
  the Green
• 8:26
  Berets
• 8:26
  working on
• 8:27
  the ground
• 8:27
  side,
• 8:27
  then
• 8:27
  getting
• 8:28
  those
• 8:28
  groups to
• 8:28
  talk to
• 8:29
  each other
• 8:29
  and
• 8:29
  teaching
• 8:29
  them how
• 8:30
  to do
• 8:30
  air to
• 8:30
  ground
• 8:30
  integration.
• 8:31
  Very cool.
• 8:32
  And has
• 8:33
  any work?
• 8:34
  Well,
• 8:34
  I mean,
• 8:34
  I'll work
• 8:35
  right way
• 8:35
  to say it,
• 8:36
  but any
• 8:36
  your
• 8:36
  current
• 8:37
  flying
• 8:38
  responsibilities
• 8:39
  then
• 8:39
  tangential
• 8:39
  or
• 8:40
  brushed up
• 8:40
  into any
• 8:41
  of the
• 8:41
  recent
• 8:41
  operations?
• 8:42
  Our unit
• 8:43
  has been
• 8:44
  doing some
• 8:44
  stuff
• 8:45
  overseas
• 8:46
  and then
• 8:46
  the broader
• 8:46
  community
• 8:47
  as well.
• 8:48
  And that's
• 8:48
  the NSA's.
• 8:49
  So they
• 8:49
  shut down
• 8:50
  the CAA
• 8:50
  community.
• 8:51
  They're
• 8:51
  bringing it
• 8:52
  back
• 8:52
  right now,
• 8:52
  but
• 8:54
  in a new form.
• 8:54
  So during
• 8:55
  that
• 8:55
  interim
• 8:55
  period,
• 8:56
  went over
• 8:56
  to do
• 8:57
  to join
• 8:57
  the community
• 8:58
  that
• 8:58
  ends up
• 8:58
  community
• 8:59
  is doing
• 8:59
  a lot of
• 9:00
  stuff
• 9:00
  for the
• 9:01
  current
• 9:01
  fight.
• 9:02
  I mean,
• 9:02
  you're
• 9:02
  just
• 9:03
  moving,
• 9:03
  you know,
• 9:04
  soft guys
• 9:04
  around from
• 9:05
  point A
• 9:05
  to point B
• 9:06
  and doing
• 9:06
  logistics.
• 9:07
  So,
• 9:08
  you know,
• 9:08
  it's
• 9:08
  all left
• 9:08
  of bang
• 9:09
  usually.
• 9:09
  So it was
• 9:10
  it was
• 9:11
  absolutely
• 9:12
  I'll say
• 9:12
  fascinating.
• 9:13
  I mean
• 9:14
  regardless
• 9:14
  of whether
• 9:14
  you agree
• 9:15
  with
• 9:16
  Venezuela
• 9:16
  or Iranian
• 9:17
  operations
• 9:18
  right now,
• 9:18
  there's
• 9:19
  been at
• 9:19
  least two,
• 9:20
  I think,
• 9:20
  operations
• 9:21
  that will
• 9:21
  probably
• 9:21
  be studied
• 9:22
  for a very
• 9:22
  long time.
• 9:23
  The capture
• 9:25
  of of
• 9:25
  the
• 9:26
  Venezuelan
• 9:26
  president,
• 9:27
  which
• 9:27
  happened
• 9:27
  within
• 9:28
  a matter
• 9:28
  of minutes,
• 9:28
  as well as
• 9:29
  the
• 9:29
  recovery
• 9:30
  of a US
• 9:31
  Air Force
• 9:32
  pilot, 15
• 9:33
  I believe
• 9:33
  it was
• 9:34
  pilot
• 9:34
  or weapon
• 9:35
  system
• 9:35
  officer
• 9:36
  that was
• 9:36
  shot down
• 9:37
  in Iran.
• 9:38
  Both of
• 9:39
  those are
• 9:40
  incredibly
• 9:40
  complex,
• 9:41
  multi-agency
• 9:43
  international
• 9:44
  operations
• 9:44
  that are
• 9:45
  in
• 9:46
  some ways,
• 9:46
  you know,
• 9:46
  almost
• 9:47
  the
• 9:47
  scenarios
• 9:48
  you imagine
• 9:48
  when you're
• 9:49
  training
• 9:50
  as a pilot
• 9:51
  about
• 9:51
  being able
• 9:52
  to execute
• 9:53
  a mission
• 9:53
  like that
• 9:54
  versus,
• 9:54
  you know,
• 9:55
  5 to 10
• 9:55
  years
• 9:55
  of
• 9:56
  hanging out
• 9:56
  over
• 9:57
  Afghanistan
• 9:58
  or
• 9:58
  somewhere
• 9:58
  else.
• 9:58
  And
• 9:59
  incredibly,
• 10:00
  at least
• 10:00
  from my
• 10:00
  perspective,
• 10:01
  or at least
• 10:01
  maybe the
• 10:02
  public's
• 10:02
  perspective,
• 10:03
  they went
• 10:04
  almost
• 10:04
  flawlessly.
• 10:05
  Love with
• 10:06
  your
• 10:06
  experience,
• 10:06
  maybe
• 10:07
  the comment
• 10:07
  or one
• 10:08
  or both
• 10:08
  of those.
• 10:09
  Well,
• 10:09
  it's
• 10:09
  interesting
• 10:09
  because the
• 10:11
  whole
• 10:11
  root of
• 10:12
  the Joint
• 10:13
  Special
• 10:13
  Operations
• 10:14
  Command
• 10:14
  was this
• 10:15
  operation
• 10:16
  called
• 10:16
  Desert One,
• 10:16
  which
• 10:17
  is the
• 10:17
  failed
• 10:17
  hostage
• 10:18
  rescue
• 10:18
  of the
• 10:20
  Iranian,
• 10:21
  the
• 10:21
  American
• 10:22
  hostages
• 10:23
  from Iran
• 10:23
  back
• 10:23
  in the 70s,
• 10:24
  I think,
• 10:25
  during the
• 10:26
  tailing
• 10:26
  trailing
• 10:27
  year of
• 10:27
  Carter's
• 10:27
  administration.
• 10:28
  Basically,
• 10:28
  they tried
• 10:29
  to rescue
• 10:29
  these
• 10:29
  hostages.
• 10:31
  They got
• 10:32
  a couple
• 10:32
  C-130s
• 10:33
  stuck,
• 10:34
  they had
• 10:34
  a collision
• 10:34
  on the
• 10:35
  ground,
• 10:35
  and Iran
• 10:36
  turned
• 10:36
  into this
• 10:37
  big problem,
• 10:38
  and it was
• 10:39
  a mission
• 10:39
  failure.
• 10:40
  And the US
• 10:41
  went and
• 10:41
  looked back
• 10:41
  and said,
• 10:42
  like, hey,
• 10:42
  why did we fail?
• 10:43
  How can we do
• 10:44
  this
• 10:44
  better?
• 10:44
  And
• 10:45
  they stood up
• 10:45
  JSOC
• 10:46
  and that
• 10:46
  obviously
• 10:47
  born to
• 10:47
  Special
• 10:47
  Operations
• 10:48
  Command.
• 10:48
  And so
• 10:49
  there's
• 10:50
  some,
• 10:50
  you know,
• 10:51
  echoes of
• 10:52
  that in
• 10:52
  the
• 10:52
  current,
• 10:53
  you know,
• 10:54
  fight where
• 10:54
  we did
• 10:55
  go pick up
• 10:56
  that guy.
• 10:56
  We did do
• 10:56
  hostage
• 10:57
  rescue.
• 10:57
  It was
• 10:57
  successful
• 10:58
  this time.
• 10:59
  There were
• 10:59
  some C-130s
• 11:00
  that were
• 11:01
  blown
• 11:01
  up like
• 11:01
  so
• 11:01
  there are
• 11:02
  some echoes
• 11:02
  of that
• 11:03
  initial
• 11:03
  and
• 11:03
  obviously
• 11:04
  I don't
• 11:04
  I don't
• 11:04
  have
• 11:05
  special
• 11:05
  knowledge
• 11:05
  about
• 11:06
  how this
• 11:06
  operation
• 11:07
  took place
• 11:07
  beyond
• 11:08
  what
• 11:08
  you read
• 11:08
  in the news,
• 11:08
  but it is
• 11:09
  nice to
• 11:10
  see that
• 11:10
  kind of
• 11:10
  come full
• 11:11
  circle
• 11:11
  where
• 11:11
  you see
• 11:12
  what
• 11:13
  the genesis
• 11:13
  of JSOC
• 11:14
  was,
• 11:14
  and now
• 11:15
  you see it,
• 11:15
  you know,
• 11:15
  at its
• 11:16
  fruition,
• 11:16
  its
• 11:16
  maturity,
• 11:17
  you know,
• 11:18
  decades
• 11:18
  later,
• 11:19
  and you
• 11:19
  see
• 11:19
  the ability
• 11:20
  to go
• 11:20
  and execute
• 11:21
  like highly
• 11:21
  complex
• 11:22
  inter-service
• 11:23
  operations
• 11:24
  flawlessly.
• 11:25
  And you
• 11:25
  look at the
• 11:25
  Maduro
• 11:26
  rate,
• 11:26
  I mean,
• 11:27
  that was
• 11:27
  a textbook
• 11:28
  near
• 11:29
  flawless
• 11:29
  execution
• 11:30
  of
• 11:30
  something
• 11:30
  that was
• 11:31
  I mean,
• 11:31
  essentially
• 11:32
  the opening
• 11:32
  scene from
• 11:33
  do you
• 11:33
  remember
• 11:33
  Air Force
• 11:34
  One
• 11:34
  when they
• 11:35
  went and
• 11:35
  snapped
• 11:35
  that?
• 11:36
  Yeah, that
• 11:36
  president
• 11:37
  out of
• 11:37
  his palace,
• 11:38
  like it was
• 11:38
  pretty much
• 11:39
  the opening
• 11:39
  scene
• 11:39
  of Air
• 11:39
  Force One,
• 11:40
  except it
• 11:41
  just went,
• 11:42
  you know,
• 11:42
  beautifully.
• 11:42
  And I think
• 11:43
  that
• 11:43
  that says
• 11:44
  something
• 11:44
  to the
• 11:45
  whole
• 11:45
  nature
• 11:45
  of anyone
• 11:46
  who's been
• 11:47
  in the
• 11:47
  military,
• 11:47
  of the
• 11:48
  whole
• 11:48
  debrief,
• 11:49
  take the
• 11:49
  lessons
• 11:50
  learned.
• 11:50
  How do we
• 11:50
  get better,
• 11:51
  you know,
• 11:51
  full open
• 11:52
  kimono.
• 11:53
  What did we do
• 11:53
  wrong?
• 11:54
  How do
• 11:54
  we become
• 11:55
  better
• 11:55
  out of that?
• 11:55
  Whether
• 11:56
  you believe
• 11:56
  in the war,
• 11:57
  support
• 11:57
  the war
• 11:57
  or not,
• 11:58
  you have
• 11:59
  to admire
• 11:59
  the fact
• 12:00
  that, like,
• 12:00
  this is
• 12:01
  executed
• 12:01
  so well
• 12:02
  and in
• 12:02
  multiple
• 12:03
  times too.
• 12:03
  Especially
• 12:04
  for complex
• 12:04
  rescue
• 12:05
  operation
• 12:05
  when you
• 12:05
  have a
• 12:06
  pilot
• 12:06
  and a Wizo
• 12:07
  geographically
• 12:08
  separated,
• 12:09
  one of
• 12:09
  them's
• 12:09
  injured,
• 12:09
  one
• 12:10
  of them's
• 12:10
  not. Yeah.
• 12:11
  You know,
• 12:12
  rescue
• 12:12
  going on
• 12:13
  for one
• 12:13
  where
• 12:13
  you lose
• 12:14
  an aircraft.
• 12:14
  So now
• 12:15
  that puts
• 12:15
  another
• 12:16
  like
• 12:16
  PR like
• 12:16
  possible PR
• 12:18
  activation
• 12:18
  going on.
• 12:19
  So it is
• 12:20
  really
• 12:20
  fascinating
• 12:21
  to see
• 12:22
  everything
• 12:22
  kind of
• 12:22
  coming
• 12:23
  together.
• 12:23
  It would have
• 12:24
  likely been
• 12:24
  the quarterback
• 12:26
  and I
• 12:26
  imagine
• 12:26
  imagine
• 12:27
  been a busy
• 12:27
  time.
• 12:28
  The chaos
• 12:29
  wouldn't
• 12:29
  quarterback
• 12:30
  it
• 12:30
  necessarily
• 12:31
  because
• 12:31
  they'd
• 12:31
  spin up
• 12:32
  a unique
• 12:33
  like
• 12:34
  special
• 12:34
  person
• 12:34
  who's
• 12:35
  running
• 12:35
  that.
• 12:35
  But
• 12:35
  the chaos
• 12:36
  would do a
• 12:36
  lot of the.
• 12:37
  So
• 12:37
  we saw this
• 12:37
  in in
• 12:38
  the ISIS
• 12:39
  fight where
• 12:39
  if you
• 12:40
  had like
• 12:40
  a high
• 12:41
  value asset
• 12:43
  that
• 12:43
  people were
• 12:43
  going
• 12:43
  after,
• 12:44
  they'd
• 12:44
  put up a raws
• 12:45
  and
• 12:45
  that would be
• 12:45
  a JSO
• 12:46
  control
• 12:47
  with JCC
• 12:47
  assets.
• 12:48
  And you've
• 12:48
  got guys
• 12:49
  who are,
• 12:49
  you know,
• 12:50
  option,
• 12:50
  you know,
• 12:50
  operationally
• 12:51
  controlled,
• 12:52
  passed
• 12:52
  over to JSOC,
• 12:53
  but
• 12:53
  they'd be
• 12:54
  running
• 12:54
  their own
• 12:54
  ops in
• 12:55
  specific
• 12:56
  regions.
• 12:56
  And that's
• 12:57
  what
• 12:57
  you need
• 12:57
  in that
• 12:58
  circumstance.
• 12:58
  Like you
• 12:59
  don't need
• 12:59
  some,
• 13:00
  you know,
• 13:01
  someone at
• 13:01
  the chaos
• 13:02
  running
• 13:03
  everything.
• 13:04
  Yeah.
• 13:04
  They have
• 13:04
  other
• 13:04
  responsibilities
• 13:05
  that still
• 13:06
  go on.
• 13:06
  It's a
• 13:06
  big picture
• 13:07
  type fight.
• 13:08
  And so,
• 13:08
  you know,
• 13:09
  when
• 13:09
  you have
• 13:09
  these
• 13:09
  highly
• 13:10
  specialized
• 13:10
  operations
• 13:11
  and
• 13:11
  that are
• 13:11
  compartmentalized,
• 13:12
  it also,
• 13:13
  you know,
• 13:14
  there's
• 13:14
  room for
• 13:14
  leakage.
• 13:15
  So if
• 13:15
  someone
• 13:15
  says
• 13:16
  something
• 13:16
  at the
• 13:16
  water
• 13:16
  cooler
• 13:17
  that
• 13:17
  someone
• 13:18
  who's
• 13:18
  not read
• 13:19
  in hears
• 13:19
  that, and,
• 13:20
  you know,
• 13:20
  maybe from
• 13:21
  another
• 13:21
  country,
• 13:21
  that that
• 13:22
  could be
• 13:22
  a problem
• 13:23
  because
• 13:23
  the chaos
• 13:23
  is
• 13:23
  combined.
• 13:24
  So
• 13:24
  there are
• 13:25
  other nations
• 13:26
  who are there.
• 13:26
  So if you
• 13:27
  have a
• 13:28
  PR
• 13:28
  scenario,
• 13:29
  the PR cell
• 13:29
  and the
• 13:30
  chaos.
• 13:30
  Personnel
• 13:31
  recovery.
• 13:31
  Personnel
• 13:31
  recovery,
• 13:32
  the PR
• 13:32
  cell is
• 13:32
  activated.
• 13:33
  And
• 13:33
  basically
• 13:33
  when
• 13:34
  there's
• 13:34
  a PR
• 13:34
  scenario
• 13:35
  like the
• 13:35
  PR cell
• 13:36
  becomes
• 13:36
  the number
• 13:37
  one, like
• 13:38
  everyone
• 13:39
  supports
• 13:39
  them,
• 13:39
  no one
• 13:40
  priority,
• 13:40
  everything
• 13:41
  goes
• 13:41
  through
• 13:41
  them.
• 13:41
  They have
• 13:42
  central
• 13:42
  control.
• 13:43
  Did
• 13:43
  you train
• 13:44
  either
• 13:45
  with Asac
• 13:45
  or
• 13:46
  your time
• 13:47
  in the Navy
• 13:47
  for these
• 13:48
  types
• 13:49
  of
• 13:49
  missions?
• 13:49
  And off
• 13:50
  socket
• 13:50
  was
• 13:50
  different
• 13:51
  because
• 13:51
  we were a
• 13:52
  supported
• 13:53
  asset.
• 13:53
  And for
• 13:54
  cars
• 13:54
  they deploy
• 13:55
  outside of
• 13:57
  the base
• 13:57
  structure.
• 13:58
  So they're
• 13:58
  actual SOF
• 13:59
  assets.
• 14:00
  So CAA
• 14:01
  unit has
• 14:01
  to be
• 14:02
  self-sustaining
• 14:03
  for
• 14:04
  I think
• 14:04
  72 hours
• 14:04
  or
• 14:05
  something.
• 14:05
  You have
• 14:05
  to self
• 14:05
  extract
• 14:06
  basically.
• 14:06
  So
• 14:07
  the training
• 14:07
  was all
• 14:08
  involved in
• 14:08
  like how
• 14:08
  do you
• 14:09
  fight
• 14:09
  your way
• 14:09
  out.
• 14:10
  How do you,
• 14:10
  you know,
• 14:11
  get out
• 14:11
  of the problem.
• 14:12
  How
• 14:12
  do you link up
• 14:12
  with other
• 14:12
  Americans
• 14:13
  and survive
• 14:13
  until
• 14:14
  actual
• 14:14
  forces
• 14:15
  can come
• 14:15
  and
• 14:15
  rescue you?
• 14:16
  And so
• 14:17
  that was
• 14:18
  just
• 14:18
  another
• 14:18
  perspective
• 14:19
  from being
• 14:19
  on the
• 14:19
  ground
• 14:20
  like, hey,
• 14:20
  here's PR
• 14:22
  TPS that
• 14:23
  we didn't
• 14:23
  have as
• 14:24
  fighter
• 14:24
  pilots
• 14:24
  because as
• 14:25
  a fighter
• 14:25
  pilot,
• 14:26
  you go
• 14:26
  down,
• 14:27
  there's
• 14:28
  you don't
• 14:28
  have like
• 14:29
  an up
• 14:29
  armored
• 14:30
  vehicle,
• 14:30
  you don't
• 14:30
  have an
• 14:31
  M240, like
• 14:32
  you don't
• 14:32
  have
• 14:32
  all these
• 14:32
  weapons.
• 14:33
  Maybe
• 14:33
  your pistol
• 14:34
  is working.
• 14:34
  Yeah,
• 14:35
  maybe
• 14:35
  your pistols
• 14:35
  were
• 14:36
  wrapper.
• 14:36
  Yeah.
• 14:37
  Your free
• 14:37
  magazines,
• 14:38
  45 rounds.
• 14:39
  Like you
• 14:39
  don't have
• 14:40
  the
• 14:40
  training
• 14:40
  to use
• 14:41
  that thing.
• 14:41
  You don't
• 14:41
  have
• 14:42
  a long gun.
• 14:42
  So it's
• 14:44
  completely
• 14:44
  different
• 14:45
  type of
• 14:45
  PR
• 14:45
  scenario.
• 14:45
  Like as
• 14:46
  a pilot.
• 14:47
  As a
• 14:47
  fighter
• 14:47
  pilot,
• 14:48
  you're just
• 14:48
  sitting
• 14:48
  there,
• 14:49
  you know,
• 14:50
  as a
• 14:50
  passenger
• 14:50
  princess
• 14:51
  waiting to
• 14:51
  be picked
• 14:51
  up.
• 14:52
  So
• 14:52
  I specifically
• 14:53
  trained as
• 14:53
  a combat
• 14:55
  search
• 14:55
  and rescue
• 14:55
  mission
• 14:56
  commander.
• 14:56
  Yeah.
• 14:57
  Did you fly
• 14:57
  any of
• 14:58
  those
• 14:58
  missions?
• 14:59
  Yeah.
• 14:59
  So,
• 15:00
  you know,
• 15:01
  I have to
• 15:02
  give the
• 15:03
  Navy credit
• 15:04
  for for
• 15:05
  the
• 15:05
  training
• 15:05
  that
• 15:05
  they put
• 15:06
  us through,
• 15:06
  both from
• 15:08
  what happens.
• 15:09
  What do we do
• 15:09
  if this happens
• 15:10
  to us here?
• 15:11
  School
• 15:11
  and whatnot
• 15:12
  prepares
• 15:12
  for
• 15:12
  scenarios
• 15:13
  like that
• 15:13
  as well
• 15:14
  as they
• 15:14
  prepare us
• 15:15
  as pilots
• 15:15
  to be
• 15:16
  able to,
• 15:16
  at least in
• 15:17
  the Navy,
• 15:17
  go out
• 15:17
  and recover
• 15:18
  our own
• 15:19
  just with
• 15:20
  the units
• 15:20
  that we
• 15:20
  have
• 15:21
  available
• 15:21
  within
• 15:21
  the strike
• 15:22
  group.
• 15:22
  And I
• 15:22
  was trained
• 15:23
  as one of
• 15:23
  those
• 15:24
  mission
• 15:24
  commanders
• 15:24
  out in
• 15:25
  Fallon,
• 15:26
  even do one
• 15:26
  of the
• 15:27
  exercise
• 15:27
  at the boat
• 15:28
  to
• 15:28
  which was,
• 15:28
  you know,
• 15:29
  a whole
• 15:29
  nother
• 15:29
  dynamic
• 15:30
  doing on
• 15:30
  the boat.
• 15:31
  Right?
• 15:31
  And so,
• 15:31
  yeah,
• 15:32
  we'll
• 15:32
  actually
• 15:33
  send
• 15:33
  someone out
• 15:33
  into
• 15:34
  the field,
• 15:34
  into the desert
• 15:35
  for like
• 15:35
  the whole day.
• 15:36
  And
• 15:37
  they will
• 15:37
  basically
• 15:38
  be hunted
• 15:38
  by dogs
• 15:39
  and a whole
• 15:40
  team of
• 15:40
  experts
• 15:41
  driving
• 15:41
  them in the
• 15:41
  different areas.
• 15:42
  And this
• 15:43
  whole time,
• 15:44
  the rescue
• 15:44
  mission
• 15:45
  commander
• 15:45
  is working
• 15:46
  with their
• 15:46
  back seater
• 15:47
  to gather
• 15:48
  this
• 15:48
  intelligence
• 15:49
  about where
• 15:49
  they are
• 15:49
  and how
• 15:50
  we ensure
• 15:51
  that
• 15:51
  we have the
• 15:52
  right person
• 15:52
  and then
• 15:53
  build the
• 15:53
  actual
• 15:54
  mission
• 15:54
  plan with
• 15:55
  the whole
• 15:55
  air wing,
• 15:56
  essentially,
• 15:57
  to go out
• 15:57
  every cover
• 15:58
  these
• 15:58
  folks,
• 15:59
  and they're
• 15:59
  pretty,
• 16:00
  pretty
• 16:00
  killer
• 16:01
  flights.
• 16:01
  If you
• 16:01
  flown
• 16:02
  on one,
• 16:02
  you know,
• 16:02
  they're
• 16:03
  very
• 16:03
  complex.
• 16:03
  You know,
• 16:04
  the fuel
• 16:04
  considerations
• 16:05
  are
• 16:05
  extreme.
• 16:06
  The the
• 16:07
  the window
• 16:08
  that
• 16:08
  you have
• 16:08
  the
• 16:09
  successfully
• 16:09
  operate is
• 16:10
  extremely narrow.
• 16:11
  But
• 16:11
  they're
• 16:11
  hell of
• 16:12
  a fight
• 16:12
  flight
• 16:13
  even
• 16:13
  at the end
• 16:13
  when
• 16:14
  they're
• 16:14
  when
• 16:14
  they're
• 16:14
  shooting
• 16:14
  flares up
• 16:15
  at us
• 16:15
  and all
• 16:15
  that during
• 16:16
  the recovery.
• 16:17
  But
• 16:17
  have you
• 16:18
  have flown
• 16:18
  one of
• 16:19
  those
• 16:19
  before?
• 16:19
  Yeah.
• 16:20
  So
• 16:20
  one of the guys
• 16:20
  in
• 16:20
  our units,
• 16:21
  when
• 16:21
  we were
• 16:22
  working out
• 16:22
  for the
• 16:22
  first
• 16:22
  deployment,
• 16:23
  I think
• 16:23
  they had
• 16:23
  just
• 16:24
  started
• 16:24
  the whole
• 16:25
  MK process
• 16:26
  or whatever
• 16:27
  capability.
• 16:28
  When you
• 16:28
  were
• 16:28
  leaving.
• 16:28
  The
• 16:29
  Nicholas.
• 16:29
  Yeah,
• 16:29
  when
• 16:29
  I was at
• 16:30
  the
• 16:30
  Nichols.
• 16:30
  Okay.
• 16:30
  So that was
• 16:31
  before
• 16:31
  I left.
• 16:32
  So that was
• 16:32
  before
• 16:32
  I deployed.
• 16:33
  So this is
• 16:33
  like 2009
• 16:34
  maybe 2010
• 16:35
  timeframe.
• 16:35
  I think
• 16:36
  it's 2010
• 16:36
  timeframe.
• 16:37
  Well,
• 16:37
  real quick,
• 16:37
  you know,
• 16:38
  you
• 16:38
  remember
• 16:39
  Nick,
• 16:40
  we
• 16:40
  don't have
• 16:40
  to say
• 16:40
  last names,
• 16:41
  but he
• 16:42
  actually.
• 16:43
  No,
• 16:43
  he got there
• 16:43
  right
• 16:44
  after you
• 16:44
  got left.
• 16:45
  The Nichols
• 16:46
  because
• 16:46
  he was
• 16:46
  in my class
• 16:47
  in the rag
• 16:48
  and we
• 16:49
  both
• 16:49
  went out.
• 16:49
  He went to
• 16:50
  the Nichols
• 16:50
  I went to,
• 16:52
  and we were
• 16:53
  the only
• 16:53
  two rescue
• 16:54
  mission
• 16:54
  commanders
• 16:55
  on, on
• 16:55
  the
• 16:55
  deployments.
• 16:56
  We both
• 16:56
  went to
• 16:57
  that
• 16:57
  training.
• 16:57
  Yeah.
• 16:58
  Sorry.
• 16:58
  Please
• 16:58
  continue.
• 16:59
  Yeah,
• 16:59
  they just
• 16:59
  started
• 16:59
  it up.
• 17:00
  So
• 17:00
  one of the guys,
• 17:01
  suds,
• 17:01
  he was a
• 17:03
  really
• 17:03
  awesome
• 17:04
  Wiseau.
• 17:05
  He was
• 17:06
  the guy
• 17:06
  that the
• 17:06
  squadron
• 17:07
  was like,
• 17:07
  hey,
• 17:07
  you're going
• 17:07
  to be
• 17:07
  the first guy
• 17:08
  to go
• 17:08
  because
• 17:08
  he was
• 17:08
  one of the
• 17:09
  senior
• 17:09
  Joe's.
• 17:09
  So they
• 17:10
  sent him
• 17:10
  through
• 17:11
  the RNC
• 17:11
  course
• 17:12
  before
• 17:12
  he went off
• 17:13
  to Top Gun.
• 17:14
  And I
• 17:14
  remember
• 17:15
  being on,
• 17:15
  you know,
• 17:16
  2 or 3
• 17:17
  or whatever
• 17:17
  on
• 17:17
  those flights.
• 17:18
  And it was
• 17:18
  pretty
• 17:19
  impressive
• 17:19
  watching
• 17:19
  them, like,
• 17:20
  do all
• 17:20
  the
• 17:20
  coordination,
• 17:21
  do
• 17:22
  all the rescue.
• 17:23
  And you
• 17:23
  see how
• 17:23
  like your
• 17:25
  your
• 17:25
  perspective
• 17:25
  as a pilot,
• 17:27
  your bubble
• 17:27
  gets bigger
• 17:28
  and bigger
• 17:28
  and bigger
• 17:28
  and you
• 17:29
  start to
• 17:29
  see like,
• 17:29
  all right,
• 17:30
  it's not
• 17:30
  just me,
• 17:31
  I'm
• 17:32
  just a cog.
• 17:32
  You start
• 17:33
  to realize,
• 17:33
  like,
• 17:34
  unless
• 17:35
  you're
• 17:35
  a guy
• 17:35
  on the
• 17:36
  ground
• 17:36
  in direct
• 17:37
  contact,
• 17:37
  you're just
• 17:38
  a customer
• 17:38
  support
• 17:38
  organization,
• 17:39
  like that's
• 17:40
  what
• 17:40
  you are.
• 17:40
  You're
• 17:41
  no one is
• 17:41
  the star
• 17:42
  of the show
• 17:42
  unless
• 17:43
  you're
• 17:43
  the one
• 17:44
  doing
• 17:44
  direct
• 17:44
  engagement.
• 17:45
  So unless
• 17:46
  we're like
• 17:46
  chucking
• 17:47
  at an enemy
• 17:48
  like we are
• 17:48
  a customer
• 17:49
  support
• 17:49
  organization,
• 17:50
  and you
• 17:50
  really
• 17:51
  see in
• 17:51
  the MK
• 17:51
  stuff
• 17:52
  because
• 17:52
  you're
• 17:53
  there
• 17:53
  to get that
• 17:53
  person out.
• 17:54
  And that
• 17:54
  person
• 17:54
  could be
• 17:54
  someone in
• 17:55
  your
• 17:55
  squadron,
• 17:56
  definitely
• 17:56
  in
• 17:57
  your wing.
• 17:57
  Right.
• 17:57
  You know,
• 17:57
  when
• 17:58
  you look
• 17:58
  at the
• 17:58
  Iran
• 17:58
  scenario,
• 17:59
  it was
• 18:00
  one jet
• 18:01
  that got
• 18:01
  shot down.
• 18:02
  But
• 18:02
  in a future
• 18:03
  pure fight,
• 18:03
  there might
• 18:04
  be multiple
• 18:04
  jet shot
• 18:05
  down.
• 18:05
  You're not
• 18:06
  gonna have
• 18:06
  all
• 18:06
  the resources
• 18:07
  you would have
• 18:08
  that we had
• 18:09
  for this,
• 18:09
  this recent
• 18:10
  PR
• 18:10
  if you're
• 18:10
  doing it
• 18:11
  with like
• 18:11
  5 or 6 jets
• 18:12
  that are
• 18:13
  shot down
• 18:13
  and now you
• 18:13
  have to
• 18:13
  get like
• 18:14
  multiple
• 18:14
  guys on
• 18:14
  the ground,
• 18:15
  now you're
• 18:15
  starting to
• 18:16
  look
• 18:16
  at like,
• 18:16
  hey,
• 18:16
  we need
• 18:17
  multiple
• 18:17
  MKs.
• 18:17
  We're going
• 18:18
  to be doing
• 18:18
  multiple
• 18:18
  rescue
• 18:19
  packages
• 18:19
  at the same time.
• 18:20
  And then
• 18:20
  that can
• 18:21
  lead to,
• 18:22
  you know,
• 18:22
  failure.
• 18:22
  And
• 18:22
  snowball
• 18:23
  recoveries.
• 18:24
  Yeah.
• 18:24
  If one of those
• 18:25
  helicopters
• 18:25
  goes down
• 18:26
  okay, now
• 18:26
  you have another PR.
• 18:27
  So
• 18:27
  that's what
• 18:28
  it matters.
• 18:28
  Yeah.
• 18:28
  Well,
• 18:29
  I guess
• 18:29
  I'll take
• 18:29
  this
• 18:29
  opportunity.
• 18:31
  If you
• 18:31
  like to say
• 18:31
  Pharos
• 18:32
  Space
• 18:32
  podcast,
• 18:32
  please make
• 18:33
  sure that
• 18:33
  you like
• 18:34
  and
• 18:34
  subscribe
• 18:35
  down below
• 18:35
  or comment.
• 18:36
  You know,
• 18:36
  I'd like
• 18:36
  to ask
• 18:37
  Austin,
• 18:37
  maybe now
• 18:38
  if you'll
• 18:38
  join us for
• 18:39
  and ask me
• 18:39
  anything
• 18:40
  with
• 18:40
  some of
• 18:40
  our members
• 18:41
  in a week
• 18:42
  or two
• 18:43
  after this
• 18:43
  airs.
• 18:44
  Absolutely.
• 18:44
  I'm sure
• 18:45
  people
• 18:45
  will have
• 18:45
  a lot
• 18:46
  of
• 18:46
  questions
• 18:47
  after this
• 18:47
  conversation.
• 18:48
  And
• 18:49
  remember,
• 18:49
  whenever
• 18:49
  you do
• 18:49
  those
• 18:50
  things,
• 18:50
  whether
• 18:50
  it's become
• 18:51
  a member
• 18:52
  at Safe
• 18:52
  Aerospace
• 18:53
  or even
• 18:53
  just liking
• 18:54
  or
• 18:54
  subscribing,
• 18:55
  you're
• 18:55
  helping
• 18:55
  the work
• 18:55
  that we're
• 18:56
  doing here
• 18:56
  and
• 18:57
  speaking
• 18:57
  about
• 18:57
  the work
• 18:58
  that we're
• 18:58
  doing here,
• 18:59
  maybe
• 18:59
  we'll
• 18:59
  kind of
• 19:00
  transition
• 19:00
  now to
• 19:02
  when
• 19:02
  you're not
• 19:03
  doing all
• 19:03
  that cool
• 19:04
  flying
• 19:04
  stuff.
• 19:04
  What
• 19:05
  are you
• 19:05
  doing?
• 19:06
  Otherwise.
• 19:06
  So I have
• 19:07
  a balloon
• 19:07
  company
• 19:07
  now.
• 19:08
  We saw
• 19:08
  stratospheric
• 19:09
  balloons
• 19:09
  to the military.
• 19:10
  So think
• 19:11
  like the
• 19:12
  Ukrainians
• 19:12
  are
• 19:12
  using them
• 19:13
  right now
• 19:13
  to
• 19:14
  pretty much
• 19:14
  pick up
• 19:15
  loitering
• 19:15
  munitions,
• 19:17
  fly them
• 19:18
  hundreds
• 19:18
  of miles
• 19:18
  into Russia
• 19:19
  and strike.
• 19:20
  So that's
• 19:20
  kind of
• 19:21
  when
• 19:21
  you read
• 19:21
  about
• 19:21
  a lot of
• 19:22
  these
• 19:22
  strikes
• 19:22
  that
• 19:23
  some oil
• 19:24
  depot deep
• 19:24
  inside
• 19:25
  Russia,
• 19:26
  a lot of
• 19:26
  those are
• 19:27
  balloon
• 19:27
  borne
• 19:27
  munitions
• 19:28
  that are
• 19:28
  being
• 19:29
  hoisted up,
• 19:30
  carried
• 19:30
  a long way
• 19:30
  at the winds
• 19:31
  and then
• 19:32
  released.
• 19:32
  And there's
• 19:33
  a lot
• 19:33
  of great
• 19:34
  tactical
• 19:34
  advantages.
• 19:35
  Why
• 19:35
  balloons
• 19:36
  are good.
• 19:37
  Most of it
• 19:38
  revolves
• 19:38
  around
• 19:39
  you
• 19:39
  get above
• 19:39
  your eye
• 19:40
  ads,
• 19:40
  envelopes
• 19:41
  your
• 19:41
  integrated
• 19:41
  air defense
• 19:42
  systems.
• 19:42
  So
• 19:43
  I imagine
• 19:44
  perhaps
• 19:45
  this is
• 19:45
  something
• 19:45
  that will
• 19:46
  be updated
• 19:46
  in
• 19:46
  your future.
• 19:47
  And I
• 19:47
  certainly
• 19:48
  hope so
• 19:48
  within
• 19:48
  the United
• 19:49
  States,
• 19:49
  because a
• 19:50
  lot of
• 19:50
  what
• 19:50
  I've been
• 19:51
  talking
• 19:52
  about
• 19:52
  would
• 19:52
  necessitate
• 19:53
  this,
• 19:53
  which is
• 19:54
  the very
• 19:54
  slow speed
• 19:55
  gates that
• 19:56
  balloons
• 19:56
  represent,
• 19:57
  which
• 19:57
  might make
• 19:58
  it hard
• 19:58
  for radars
• 20:00
  that are
• 20:00
  designed
• 20:01
  to, say,
• 20:01
  track
• 20:02
  ICBMs.
• 20:03
  I mean,
• 20:03
  that's
• 20:03
  not
• 20:04
  necessarily
• 20:04
  a new fact.
• 20:05
  I feel
• 20:05
  pretty
• 20:06
  comfortable
• 20:06
  talking
• 20:06
  about it,
• 20:07
  but I'm
• 20:08
  wondering
• 20:08
  if that's
• 20:09
  part
• 20:09
  of what
• 20:09
  you guys
• 20:10
  are working
• 20:10
  towards
• 20:10
  as well.
• 20:11
  Yeah,
• 20:11
  I mean,
• 20:12
  balloons,
• 20:13
  I mean,
• 20:13
  radar
• 20:13
  reflects,
• 20:14
  right?
• 20:14
  That's how
• 20:15
  it's
• 20:15
  useful.
• 20:16
  And
• 20:16
  balloons
• 20:17
  just don't
• 20:17
  have a lot
• 20:18
  to reflect.
• 20:19
  They're
• 20:19
  made out of
• 20:20
  the same
• 20:20
  stuff
• 20:21
  that your
• 20:21
  shopping
• 20:21
  bags made
• 20:22
  out of
• 20:22
  very high
• 20:23
  density
• 20:23
  polyethylene
• 20:24
  that's
• 20:25
  super thin.
• 20:26
  So at any
• 20:27
  given
• 20:28
  point, it's
• 20:28
  easy
• 20:28
  to pierce,
• 20:29
  but
• 20:29
  as a whole
• 20:30
  it's kind
• 20:30
  of strong.
• 20:31
  So it can
• 20:31
  hold a lift
• 20:32
  gas in.
• 20:32
  And so
• 20:32
  that
• 20:33
  doesn't
• 20:33
  reflect
• 20:34
  radar
• 20:34
  energy
• 20:35
  at all,
• 20:35
  at least
• 20:36
  not to a
• 20:36
  detectable
• 20:37
  degree.
• 20:37
  So
• 20:38
  when you're
• 20:38
  looking
• 20:38
  at a radar
• 20:39
  system
• 20:39
  that's on
• 20:39
  the ground,
• 20:40
  you know,
• 20:41
  it's got
• 20:41
  to get the
• 20:41
  power
• 20:42
  output to
• 20:42
  get through
• 20:43
  the dense
• 20:43
  atmosphere,
• 20:44
  to get
• 20:45
  that beam
• 20:45
  out, to hit
• 20:46
  a balloon
• 20:47
  that's not
• 20:47
  reflective
• 20:48
  at all.
• 20:48
  And
• 20:49
  then it's
• 20:49
  got to
• 20:49
  reflect
• 20:50
  enough
• 20:50
  energy
• 20:50
  to get
• 20:50
  back
• 20:51
  through
• 20:51
  that thick
• 20:52
  terrestrial
• 20:52
  atmosphere
• 20:53
  all the way
• 20:53
  back down
• 20:53
  to the receiver
• 20:54
  so
• 20:55
  they can
• 20:55
  say like,
• 20:55
  okay,
• 20:56
  I've got a return
• 20:57
  off of
• 20:57
  something.
• 20:58
  What is it?
• 20:59
  So not only
• 20:59
  is it
• 21:00
  hard
• 21:00
  to see,
• 21:01
  but you're
• 21:02
  very high
• 21:02
  up.
• 21:02
  So if
• 21:03
  you're
• 21:03
  carrying
• 21:04
  a,
• 21:04
  let's say,
• 21:04
  a drone,
• 21:05
  right.
• 21:05
  The drone
• 21:06
  is going
• 21:06
  to reflect
• 21:07
  radar energy.
• 21:07
  So you're
• 21:07
  going
• 21:08
  to see
• 21:08
  the drone.
• 21:08
  You're not
• 21:09
  going
• 21:09
  to see
• 21:09
  the balloon.
• 21:10
  So
• 21:10
  you have a
• 21:10
  small
• 21:10
  enough
• 21:11
  payload on
• 21:11
  the
• 21:11
  balloon.
• 21:12
  That could be
• 21:12
  very
• 21:12
  difficult
• 21:13
  to see.
• 21:13
  The drone
• 21:13
  you could see.
• 21:14
  But now
• 21:14
  the drones
• 21:15
  up at 60,
• 21:15
  70,000ft.
• 21:17
  And most
• 21:19
  Sam systems
• 21:19
  are
• 21:20
  designed
• 21:20
  to
• 21:20
  intercept
• 21:20
  aircraft
• 21:21
  that are in
• 21:21
  the,
• 21:22
  you know,
• 21:22
  30, 40,
• 21:23
  50,000ft
• 21:24
  range.
• 21:25
  You saw
• 21:25
  this in
• 21:26
  the Cuban
• 21:27
  Missile
• 21:27
  Crisis
• 21:29
  that we
• 21:29
  when they
• 21:30
  finally
• 21:30
  shot down
• 21:31
  Francis
• 21:31
  Gary Power
• 21:32
  in Cuban
• 21:32
  Missile
• 21:32
  Crisis.
• 21:33
  But during
• 21:33
  the early
• 21:33
  days of the
• 21:33
  Cold War,
• 21:34
  you know,
• 21:35
  the U-2
• 21:35
  was hit
• 21:36
  the ability
• 21:37
  U-2 to
• 21:37
  get above
• 21:38
  Sam
• 21:38
  systems.
• 21:39
  So then
• 21:39
  the Russians
• 21:40
  built a
• 21:40
  Sam system
• 21:40
  that could
• 21:41
  hit the U-2,
• 21:41
  and
• 21:42
  they shot
• 21:42
  down the U-2.
• 21:42
  So
• 21:43
  they built
• 21:43
  that 71.
• 21:44
  So, like,
• 21:44
  well,
• 21:44
  if we can't
• 21:45
  go higher,
• 21:46
  we can go
• 21:46
  faster than
• 21:47
  the Sam
• 21:47
  systems.
• 21:48
  So
• 21:49
  when you're
• 21:49
  looking
• 21:49
  at shooting
• 21:50
  something
• 21:50
  down to
• 21:50
  70,000ft,
• 21:51
  that's
• 21:51
  a pretty
• 21:52
  robust
• 21:53
  missile.
• 21:54
  And that
• 21:54
  missile
• 21:55
  costs a lot
• 21:55
  of money,
• 21:56
  and a
• 21:56
  balloon
• 21:57
  doesn't
• 21:57
  cost
• 21:57
  a lot of
• 21:58
  money,
• 21:58
  and a
• 21:58
  little
• 21:58
  drone
• 21:59
  doesn't
• 21:59
  cost
• 21:59
  a lot of money.
• 22:00
  So now
• 22:00
  you're
• 22:01
  creating
• 22:01
  a cost
• 22:02
  asymmetry
• 22:03
  that,
• 22:03
  you know,
• 22:04
  bit us.
• 22:04
  And
• 22:05
  in the back
• 22:06
  side.
• 22:06
  It can make
• 22:06
  the outcome
• 22:07
  inevitable
• 22:07
  regardless
• 22:08
  how
• 22:08
  effective
• 22:08
  anyone
• 22:09
  system is.
• 22:10
  Flight
• 22:11
  100
• 22:11
  balloons.
• 22:12
  There's no
• 22:12
  one has got
• 22:13
  100
• 22:13
  interceptors
• 22:14
  ready
• 22:14
  to go.
• 22:14
  Take out
• 22:15
  all of those.
• 22:15
  And
• 22:16
  if the interceptor
• 22:16
  is a half
• 22:17
  million
• 22:17
  dollars
• 22:18
  and your
• 22:18
  balloons
• 22:18
  $50,000,
• 22:20
  that's
• 22:20
  a cost
• 22:21
  asymmetry.
• 22:21
  Just like
• 22:22
  we
• 22:22
  experience
• 22:23
  in
• 22:23
  Afghanistan,
• 22:23
  where
• 22:24
  you're
• 22:24
  using
• 22:24
  a $50,000
• 22:26
  Hellfire to
• 22:27
  blow up
• 22:27
  a dirt hut,
• 22:28
  you can't,
• 22:29
  you know,
• 22:30
  over time,
• 22:30
  that fight
• 22:31
  doesn't
• 22:31
  compute.
• 22:32
  Yeah.
• 22:32
  And
• 22:32
  there's,
• 22:33
  you know,
• 22:33
  supply
• 22:34
  chain
• 22:34
  limitations.
• 22:34
  You can't
• 22:35
  make an
• 22:35
  instant
• 22:35
  amount
• 22:36
  of them.
• 22:36
  You create
• 22:37
  a logistics
• 22:37
  problem.
• 22:38
  Right?
• 22:38
  Like it
• 22:39
  goes
• 22:39
  back to
• 22:39
  that quote.
• 22:40
  I forget
• 22:41
  you
• 22:41
  said it,
• 22:41
  but
• 22:42
  amateurs
• 22:43
  talk about
• 22:43
  tactics.
• 22:44
  Professionals
• 22:45
  talk about
• 22:45
  logistics.
• 22:46
  And
• 22:46
  if you can
• 22:47
  defeat the
• 22:47
  supply
• 22:48
  chain,
• 22:48
  then you're
• 22:49
  creating
• 22:49
  a really
• 22:50
  big
• 22:50
  sustainability
• 22:51
  problem
• 22:51
  for which
• 22:52
  affects
• 22:52
  someone's
• 22:53
  ability
• 22:53
  and
• 22:53
  willingness
• 22:54
  to fight.
• 22:54
  From your
• 22:55
  perspective,
• 22:55
  what's
• 22:56
  kind of
• 22:56
  the latest
• 22:57
  on balloon
• 22:59
  technology?
• 23:00
  You know
• 23:00
  that you're
• 23:01
  sharing
• 23:02
  these
• 23:02
  things
• 23:03
  free
• 23:03
  floating,
• 23:04
  and
• 23:04
  you need to
• 23:04
  release
• 23:04
  them into a
• 23:05
  properly
• 23:06
  selected
• 23:06
  Airstream.
• 23:08
  Do
• 23:08
  they have
• 23:08
  some
• 23:08
  limited
• 23:09
  mobility?
• 23:10
  Are they
• 23:11
  self-powered
• 23:12
  via solar
• 23:13
  or other
• 23:13
  method?
• 23:14
  Do
• 23:14
  they have
• 23:14
  flexibility
• 23:15
  in
• 23:15
  operations,
• 23:16
  or are they
• 23:16
  kind of
• 23:17
  what one
• 23:17
  would
• 23:17
  imagine
• 23:18
  from a
• 23:18
  balloon?
• 23:18
  They are.
• 23:19
  There's a
• 23:19
  lot of
• 23:20
  reinvestment
• 23:21
  in the space
• 23:22
  right now.
• 23:22
  There's
• 23:22
  a lot of
• 23:23
  great
• 23:23
  companies
• 23:23
  out there
• 23:24
  that are
• 23:24
  doing
• 23:25
  really good
• 23:26
  work.
• 23:27
  You know,
• 23:27
  Raven
• 23:27
  Aerostar
• 23:28
  is an
• 23:28
  American
• 23:28
  company
• 23:29
  that makes
• 23:29
  phenomenal
• 23:29
  balloons.
• 23:30
  They've been
• 23:30
  there.
• 23:31
  The big
• 23:31
  name in
• 23:31
  the
• 23:31
  industry
• 23:32
  in America
• 23:32
  at least,
• 23:33
  and
• 23:33
  they make
• 23:34
  giant
• 23:34
  balloons.
• 23:35
  I'm talking
• 23:35
  stadium
• 23:36
  sized
• 23:36
  balloons
• 23:36
  that carry,
• 23:37
  you know,
• 23:38
  thousands
• 23:38
  of pounds
• 23:39
  of payloads
• 23:40
  for NASA.
• 23:40
  So,
• 23:41
  you know,
• 23:41
  for a
• 23:43
  space
• 23:43
  mission
• 23:43
  that
• 23:43
  doesn't
• 23:44
  qualify
• 23:44
  to go out
• 23:45
  into space
• 23:45
  or get
• 23:45
  time on
• 23:46
  Hubble or,
• 23:47
  you know,
• 23:47
  or the
• 23:48
  James Webb
• 23:49
  Space
• 23:49
  Telescope,
• 23:50
  they'll
• 23:50
  put it
• 23:50
  on a space
• 23:51
  telescope,
• 23:52
  hoist it up
• 23:52
  by a
• 23:52
  balloon
• 23:53
  in
• 23:53
  Antarctica,
• 23:53
  and then
• 23:54
  fly it
• 23:55
  around to
• 23:55
  do it.
• 23:55
  Space
• 23:56
  mission.
• 23:56
  So these
• 23:56
  are million
• 23:57
  dollar
• 23:57
  balloons
• 23:57
  and
• 23:57
  they make
• 23:58
  phenomenal
• 23:58
  balloons.
• 23:58
  They've
• 23:59
  moved down
• 23:59
  market
• 23:59
  as well.
• 24:00
  They make
• 24:00
  a lot
• 24:00
  of balloons
• 24:01
  that
• 24:01
  kind of
• 24:02
  are
• 24:02
  competitors
• 24:02
  to ours
• 24:03
  that are
• 24:03
  very high
• 24:04
  performing,
• 24:04
  maneuverable.
• 24:05
  Another
• 24:05
  company
• 24:06
  called
• 24:06
  urban Sky
• 24:07
  has been
• 24:07
  doing
• 24:08
  great work
• 24:08
  building
• 24:09
  maneuverable
• 24:09
  balloons
• 24:10
  to do
• 24:10
  image
• 24:10
  collection
• 24:11
  and
• 24:11
  gathering.
• 24:12
  Again.
• 24:12
  They make
• 24:13
  great
• 24:13
  systems
• 24:13
  overseas.
• 24:14
  There's
• 24:14
  companies,
• 24:15
  I think
• 24:15
  there's a
• 24:15
  company
• 24:15
  called
• 24:15
  Kelly
• 24:16
  out of,
• 24:17
  I want to
• 24:17
  say, one
• 24:18
  of the
• 24:18
  Scandinavian
• 24:18
  countries
• 24:19
  that's
• 24:19
  building a
• 24:21
  kind of
• 24:21
  a rigid
• 24:21
  airship
• 24:22
  that is
• 24:22
  supposed to
• 24:23
  be high
• 24:23
  altitude
• 24:23
  and
• 24:24
  maneuverable.
• 24:24
  So
• 24:24
  the whole
• 24:25
  lighter
• 24:25
  than air
• 24:26
  space
• 24:26
  is getting
• 24:26
  a lot
• 24:27
  of
• 24:27
  reinvestment,
• 24:27
  and there's
• 24:28
  a lot of
• 24:28
  good
• 24:28
  technology
• 24:29
  going in.
• 24:29
  You're
• 24:30
  still
• 24:30
  bounded by
• 24:31
  and we're
• 24:31
  pushing up
• 24:32
  against
• 24:32
  the edges
• 24:32
  of, of
• 24:33
  just,
• 24:33
  you know,
• 24:34
  basic
• 24:34
  material
• 24:35
  science.
• 24:35
  And,
• 24:35
  and
• 24:36
  you still
• 24:36
  have it's
• 24:37
  still
• 24:37
  buoyancy.
• 24:37
  Right.
• 24:38
  It's
• 24:38
  you have to
• 24:39
  to lift
• 24:39
  x
• 24:40
  amount of weight.
• 24:40
  You have
• 24:40
  to displace
• 24:41
  that same
• 24:41
  amount
• 24:42
  of air.
• 24:42
  And
• 24:43
  the atmosphere
• 24:43
  is still
• 24:44
  the
• 24:44
  same density
• 24:44
  it was 100
• 24:45
  years ago.
• 24:45
  So,
• 24:46
  you know,
• 24:47
  if you want
• 24:47
  maneuverability,
• 24:48
  you need
• 24:49
  power.
• 24:49
  If you need
• 24:49
  power,
• 24:50
  you need
• 24:50
  energy
• 24:50
  density.
• 24:51
  So that
• 24:51
  requires
• 24:52
  weight,
• 24:52
  which means
• 24:53
  you need to
• 24:53
  displace
• 24:54
  more.
• 24:54
  So you need
• 24:54
  bigger
• 24:55
  vehicles.
• 24:55
  So
• 24:55
  these are
• 24:56
  all trade
• 24:56
  offs that
• 24:57
  happen
• 24:57
  in the space.
• 24:58
  Whether,
• 24:58
  you know,
• 24:58
  if you're
• 24:59
  building a
• 24:59
  rigid
• 24:59
  airship,
• 25:00
  you know
• 25:00
  there's
• 25:00
  a lot
• 25:01
  more
• 25:01
  investment
• 25:01
  in rigid
• 25:02
  airships
• 25:02
  right now.
• 25:02
  But rigid
• 25:03
  airships
• 25:04
  are great
• 25:04
  until they
• 25:04
  get on the ground
• 25:05
  because
• 25:06
  they're
• 25:06
  heavy.
• 25:06
  They need a
• 25:07
  big place
• 25:07
  to
• 25:07
  be stored
• 25:08
  because
• 25:08
  they don't
• 25:09
  do well
• 25:09
  in
• 25:09
  thunderstorms.
• 25:10
  So
• 25:10
  everything
• 25:11
  is a
• 25:11
  trade off.
• 25:12
  And
• 25:12
  something
• 25:13
  that
• 25:13
  functions
• 25:13
  really well
• 25:14
  at a high
• 25:14
  altitude
• 25:15
  generally
• 25:16
  doesn't
• 25:17
  do so
• 25:17
  well in the
• 25:18
  thick,
• 25:18
  dense,
• 25:19
  violent
• 25:20
  lower
• 25:21
  atmosphere
• 25:21
  air.
• 25:22
  So,
• 25:23
  you know,
• 25:23
  high aspect
• 25:24
  ratio
• 25:24
  gliders
• 25:25
  tend to get
• 25:25
  beaten up
• 25:26
  pretty hard
• 25:26
  when they
• 25:27
  come back
• 25:27
  down to the
• 25:28
  terrestrial
• 25:28
  environment.
• 25:29
  So there's
• 25:30
  a whole
• 25:30
  range
• 25:30
  of
• 25:31
  different
• 25:31
  balloon
• 25:31
  technologies.
• 25:32
  The ones we
• 25:33
  produce are
• 25:34
  first
• 25:35
  and
• 25:35
  foremost,
• 25:35
  we solve
• 25:36
  for cost
• 25:37
  and we want
• 25:37
  simplicity.
• 25:38
  So
• 25:38
  our balloons
• 25:39
  are riding
• 25:39
  with
• 25:39
  the wind.
• 25:40
  So we
• 25:41
  if we want
• 25:41
  to be over
• 25:42
  a certain
• 25:42
  point,
• 25:42
  we pick a good
• 25:43
  launch
• 25:43
  point to
• 25:44
  ride
• 25:44
  the winds
• 25:45
  to get over
• 25:45
  that point.
• 25:46
  Other
• 25:46
  balloon
• 25:46
  systems
• 25:47
  like Urban
• 25:48
  Skies
• 25:48
  or
• 25:48
  Aerostar,
• 25:49
  they can maneuver
• 25:50
  to a
• 25:50
  certain
• 25:51
  degree,
• 25:51
  right?
• 25:51
  So they can
• 25:52
  steer
• 25:52
  around
• 25:53
  and get
• 25:53
  above
• 25:54
  a certain
• 25:54
  point
• 25:55
  and maybe
• 25:55
  even
• 25:55
  kind of
• 25:56
  do somewhat
• 25:56
  of a
• 25:56
  position
• 25:57
  hold.
• 25:57
  But again,
• 25:58
  that's
• 25:58
  all
• 25:58
  dependent
• 25:59
  upon the winds.
• 25:59
  And because
• 26:00
  they're
• 26:00
  using
• 26:01
  ballasting
• 26:01
  and other
• 26:01
  technologies,
• 26:03
  they have
• 26:04
  to
• 26:04
  still ride
• 26:05
  a wind current.
• 26:05
  So
• 26:06
  if you want
• 26:06
  to go from
• 26:07
  east
• 26:07
  to west,
• 26:08
  there has
• 26:08
  to be
• 26:09
  somewhere
• 26:10
  a win,
• 26:11
  you know, a
• 26:11
  windstream
• 26:11
  that's
• 26:12
  moving in
• 26:12
  that
• 26:12
  direction.
• 26:13
  Otherwise
• 26:13
  they're not
• 26:14
  going
• 26:14
  to fight
• 26:14
  against
• 26:14
  the wind.
• 26:15
  Do you have
• 26:15
  any
• 26:15
  thoughts
• 26:15
  about the
• 26:17
  Chinese
• 26:18
  balloon
• 26:18
  escapades?
• 26:20
  Oh, man.
• 26:20
  Yeah.
• 26:20
  I mean,
• 26:21
  there's
• 26:21
  totally
• 26:21
  spying
• 26:22
  on us.
• 26:23
  But let
• 26:24
  me just
• 26:25
  ask this.
• 26:25
  I guess
• 26:26
  what you
• 26:26
  understand
• 26:27
  about that
• 26:27
  scenario,
• 26:28
  does that
• 26:28
  update your
• 26:29
  thinking?
• 26:29
  Oh, it's
• 26:29
  capable
• 26:30
  with
• 26:30
  balloons
• 26:30
  right now
• 26:31
  or is that
• 26:31
  fit your
• 26:32
  understanding
• 26:32
  of.
• 26:33
  I mean,
• 26:33
  it was
• 26:33
  validating
• 26:34
  for us.
• 26:35
  We had
• 26:35
  several
• 26:35
  people
• 26:36
  we were talking
• 26:36
  to that
• 26:36
  called us
• 26:37
  back
• 26:37
  afterwards.
• 26:37
  And we're
• 26:38
  like, wait,
• 26:40
  we need to have
• 26:40
  another
• 26:40
  conversation
• 26:41
  because
• 26:42
  this is an
• 26:42
  actual
• 26:43
  threat.
• 26:43
  We're like,
• 26:43
  yes,
• 26:44
  this is a
• 26:44
  threat.
• 26:44
  Like for
• 26:45
  all
• 26:46
  the reasons
• 26:46
  I told you,
• 26:47
  you know,
• 26:47
  several
• 26:48
  weeks ago,
• 26:48
  several
• 26:48
  months ago,
• 26:49
  I told you
• 26:50
  why
• 26:50
  this is a
• 26:51
  great technology
• 26:51
  and now
• 26:52
  you're
• 26:52
  finally
• 26:53
  seeing it.
• 26:53
  You know,
• 26:53
  it's always
• 26:54
  good.
• 26:54
  And you're,
• 26:55
  you know,
• 26:55
  another
• 26:56
  nation,
• 26:56
  a
• 26:56
  competitor
• 26:57
  nation.
• 26:57
  Validate
• 26:58
  your
• 26:58
  technology
• 26:59
  for you.
• 26:59
  Yeah.
• 26:59
  And I mean,
• 27:00
  the reason,
• 27:01
  you know,
• 27:01
  I obviously
• 27:02
  I don't
• 27:02
  have any
• 27:02
  privy
• 27:03
  information
• 27:03
  to this,
• 27:03
  but
• 27:04
  you don't
• 27:04
  want to
• 27:05
  go shoot
• 27:05
  that thing
• 27:06
  down with
• 27:06
  your top
• 27:07
  of the line
• 27:07
  missile
• 27:08
  and top of
• 27:08
  the line
• 27:09
  aircraft.
• 27:09
  There's
• 27:10
  a reason
• 27:10
  they
• 27:10
  shut it
• 27:10
  down with
• 27:11
  the heat
• 27:11
  seeker.
• 27:11
  Because,
• 27:12
  you know,
• 27:13
  who knows
• 27:13
  what's
• 27:14
  what.
• 27:14
  It's
• 27:14
  collecting.
• 27:15
  Probably
• 27:15
  doing some
• 27:16
  RF
• 27:16
  collecting,
• 27:16
  and
• 27:17
  you don't
• 27:17
  want to
• 27:17
  put your
• 27:18
  F-22 radar
• 27:19
  into a
• 27:19
  target
• 27:20
  targeting
• 27:20
  mode.
• 27:21
  So
• 27:21
  it can just
• 27:21
  sit there
• 27:22
  and sniff
• 27:22
  the proof
• 27:23
  of that.
• 27:23
  Yeah,
• 27:23
  exactly.
• 27:24
  It's a
• 27:24
  honeypot,
• 27:25
  right?
• 27:25
  I mean.
• 27:25
  Yeah,
• 27:26
  it's a
• 27:26
  honeypot.
• 27:27
  Exactly.
• 27:27
  And so
• 27:28
  balloons
• 27:29
  aren't
• 27:29
  going away.
• 27:30
  And I
• 27:30
  would be
• 27:31
  shocked
• 27:31
  if you don't
• 27:32
  see more
• 27:33
  of them
• 27:33
  and war
• 27:34
  going ahead
• 27:34
  because
• 27:35
  warfare
• 27:35
  is moving
• 27:35
  back
• 27:36
  towards
• 27:37
  quantity.
• 27:39
  You know,
• 27:40
  it always
• 27:40
  vacillates.
• 27:41
  Technology
• 27:42
  causes
• 27:42
  a
• 27:42
  disruption
• 27:43
  throughout
• 27:43
  the history
• 27:43
  of warfare.
• 27:44
  That
• 27:44
  gives you
• 27:45
  an
• 27:45
  advantage,
• 27:46
  usually
• 27:46
  some type
• 27:47
  of
• 27:47
  targeting
• 27:47
  or
• 27:47
  precision
• 27:48
  advantage,
• 27:48
  whether
• 27:49
  it's,
• 27:49
  you know,
• 27:49
  the ability
• 27:50
  to strike
• 27:50
  effectively
• 27:51
  and not
• 27:51
  waste a lot
• 27:52
  of
• 27:52
  munitions.
• 27:53
  And then
• 27:53
  there's a
• 27:53
  countermeasure
• 27:54
  developed,
• 27:54
  and
• 27:55
  then you
• 27:55
  just
• 27:55
  go back
• 27:55
  and forth
• 27:56
  and back
• 27:56
  and forth
• 27:56
  and back
• 27:57
  and forth.
• 27:57
  Right?
• 27:58
  So,
• 27:58
  you know,
• 27:59
  back in
• 27:59
  Vietnam,
• 27:59
  they said,
• 27:59
  oh,
• 28:00
  the gun,
• 28:00
  we
• 28:00
  don't need
• 28:00
  guns
• 28:01
  anymore
• 28:01
  on
• 28:01
  airplanes
• 28:01
  because
• 28:02
  we've got
• 28:02
  missiles.
• 28:02
  Well,
• 28:02
  now that
• 28:02
  we can
• 28:03
  defeat
• 28:03
  missiles
• 28:03
  with a host
• 28:05
  of
• 28:05
  different
• 28:05
  technologies,
• 28:06
  we'll
• 28:06
  put the gun
• 28:07
  back on
• 28:07
  the F-35.
• 28:08
  You know,
• 28:08
  balloons
• 28:09
  were
• 28:09
  thought
• 28:09
  to be done,
• 28:10
  but
• 28:10
  balloons
• 28:10
  are
• 28:10
  coming back
• 28:11
  because now
• 28:12
  nothing can
• 28:12
  reach up
• 28:13
  and
• 28:13
  touch them.
• 28:13
  So you're
• 28:14
  constantly
• 28:14
  going back
• 28:15
  and forth.
• 28:15
  And when
• 28:15
  you see,
• 28:16
  you know,
• 28:17
  the use
• 28:17
  of drones,
• 28:19
  you
• 28:19
  see that
• 28:20
  quantity.
• 28:20
  And again,
• 28:21
  this is
• 28:21
  another
• 28:22
  borrowed
• 28:22
  quote
• 28:23
  quantity
• 28:23
  as
• 28:23
  a quality
• 28:24
  into its own.
• 28:24
  And so when
• 28:25
  you can
• 28:25
  overwhelm
• 28:26
  an
• 28:27
  adversary
• 28:27
  with cheap
• 28:28
  munitions,
• 28:30
  you
• 28:30
  don't have
• 28:30
  to.
• 28:31
  Those
• 28:31
  things
• 28:31
  don't have
• 28:31
  to be
• 28:32
  the perfect
• 28:32
  munition.
• 28:33
  They don't
• 28:33
  have to
• 28:33
  maneuver.
• 28:34
  My balloons
• 28:34
  don't need
• 28:35
  to
• 28:35
  maneuver.
• 28:35
  Because
• 28:37
  if I can
• 28:37
  put up
• 28:37
  ten
• 28:38
  balloons
• 28:38
  for every
• 28:38
  one
• 28:39
  maneuverable
• 28:39
  balloon
• 28:40
  at the
• 28:40
  same cost,
• 28:40
  like,
• 28:41
  why bother?
• 28:42
  Because now
• 28:42
  I can cause
• 28:43
  ten
• 28:43
  targeting
• 28:44
  problems
• 28:44
  for an
• 28:44
  adversary
• 28:45
  rather than
• 28:45
  one problem
• 28:47
  that can
• 28:47
  that could
• 28:48
  be solved.
• 28:49
  And so
• 28:49
  I think
• 28:49
  that's
• 28:50
  when you're
• 28:50
  looking at,
• 28:51
  you know,
• 28:52
  safety
• 28:53
  in the
• 28:53
  aerospace
• 28:54
  environment,
• 28:55
  we're
• 28:56
  going to
• 28:56
  be
• 28:56
  flooding,
• 28:57
  you know,
• 28:58
  both the
• 28:58
  air
• 28:58
  laterals
• 28:59
  but also
• 28:59
  higher
• 29:00
  altitudes
• 29:00
  with more
• 29:00
  and more
• 29:01
  aircraft.
• 29:01
  And we saw
• 29:02
  you know,
• 29:02
  this is
• 29:02
  the reason
• 29:03
  why
• 29:03
  RVM, RVM
• 29:04
  was
• 29:04
  brought in
• 29:05
  about
• 29:05
  the
• 29:06
  produced
• 29:06
  vertical
• 29:06
  separation
• 29:07
  minima
• 29:08
  for
• 29:08
  our craft
• 29:08
  between
• 29:09
  those
• 29:09
  29,000ft
• 29:10
  and
• 29:10
  41,000ft,
• 29:11
  because
• 29:11
  there's so
• 29:12
  many more
• 29:12
  people
• 29:13
  who want
• 29:13
  to travel,
• 29:13
  there's
• 29:14
  more
• 29:14
  aircraft,
• 29:14
  which means
• 29:15
  we built
• 29:16
  in less
• 29:17
  clearance
• 29:17
  between
• 29:17
  each
• 29:17
  aircraft.
• 29:18
  And we're
• 29:18
  going to
• 29:18
  see that.
• 29:19
  As you
• 29:20
  know, urban
• 29:21
  mobility
• 29:22
  starts
• 29:22
  to grow
• 29:23
  as drone
• 29:24
  delivery
• 29:24
  starts
• 29:25
  to grow.
• 29:25
  The air
• 29:25
  laterals.
• 29:26
  So that
• 29:27
  area will
• 29:27
  just
• 29:28
  call it
• 29:28
  below
• 29:28
  2000ft,
• 29:29
  or let's
• 29:29
  say 5000ft.
• 29:30
  That's
• 29:31
  going to be
• 29:31
  incredibly
• 29:32
  congested.
• 29:32
  And the
• 29:33
  technology
• 29:34
  to detect
• 29:36
  to
• 29:36
  deconfliction
• 29:37
  and to
• 29:37
  prevent
• 29:38
  problems in
• 29:38
  that
• 29:38
  airspace
• 29:39
  from
• 29:39
  manifesting
• 29:40
  is,
• 29:41
  I think,
• 29:41
  the next
• 29:42
  big
• 29:42
  challenge
• 29:43
  in
• 29:43
  aerospace.
• 29:43
  Both of us,
• 29:44
  you know,
• 29:45
  collaborative
• 29:45
  players
• 29:46
  as well
• 29:46
  as on
• 29:46
  collaborative
• 29:47
  players.
• 29:47
  Yeah.
• 29:48
  So,
• 29:48
  you know,
• 29:49
  this brings
• 29:49
  us back
• 29:49
  to the balloon.
• 29:50
  Like
• 29:50
  how do you
• 29:50
  detect
• 29:51
  balloons?
• 29:51
  Well,
• 29:52
  we can't
• 29:52
  build
• 29:52
  a
• 29:52
  nationwide
• 29:53
  balloon
• 29:53
  detection
• 29:54
  system
• 29:55
  because
• 29:55
  that costs
• 29:55
  a lot of money.
• 29:56
  So
• 29:56
  how do we use
• 29:57
  what
• 29:57
  we have now
• 29:58
  to deduct
• 29:58
  balloons.
• 29:59
  How
• 29:59
  do we use
• 29:59
  what
• 29:59
  resources
• 30:00
  we have
• 30:00
  now to
• 30:00
  find
• 30:01
  these things.
• 30:02
  And that's
• 30:02
  I think,
• 30:03
  one of the
• 30:03
  big
• 30:03
  challenges
• 30:03
  that
• 30:04
  the DoD
• 30:04
  is looking
• 30:05
  at from
• 30:05
  a home
• 30:06
  defense
• 30:06
  point
• 30:06
  of view,
• 30:07
  and really
• 30:08
  any nation
• 30:08
  should be
• 30:08
  looking
• 30:09
  at from
• 30:09
  a home
• 30:10
  protection.
• 30:10
  But
• 30:11
  that kind
• 30:11
  of
• 30:11
  technology
• 30:12
  is going to
• 30:13
  naturally
• 30:14
  evolve into
• 30:16
  solving
• 30:16
  some of
• 30:16
  these
• 30:17
  consumer
• 30:18
  demand
• 30:19
  issues,
• 30:20
  like, hey,
• 30:20
  I want to be
• 30:21
  I live in
• 30:21
  rural
• 30:22
  Kansas,
• 30:22
  and I want
• 30:23
  to get to
• 30:23
  Kansas City
• 30:23
  International
• 30:24
  for
• 30:24
  my flight.
• 30:25
  I should be
• 30:25
  able to get
• 30:25
  picked up
• 30:26
  at my
• 30:26
  farmstead,
• 30:28
  you know,
• 30:28
  in an urban
• 30:29
  air
• 30:29
  mobility
• 30:30
  helicopter,
• 30:30
  and just be
• 30:31
  going right
• 30:32
  to the
• 30:32
  airport
• 30:32
  in two
• 30:33
  hours.
• 30:33
  Well.
• 30:33
  I think
• 30:34
  that future
• 30:34
  as well
• 30:34
  on its way.
• 30:36
  Well,
• 30:36
  I think
• 30:36
  we've
• 30:37
  established
• 30:37
  your your
• 30:38
  bona fides
• 30:40
  with
• 30:41
  aviation
• 30:42
  and
• 30:42
  operations
• 30:43
  and
• 30:44
  balloons.
• 30:45
  Aviation
• 30:45
  careers
• 30:46
  can end
• 30:46
  up in
• 30:46
  strange
• 30:47
  places,
• 30:47
  right from
• 30:48
  just the
• 30:48
  balloons.
• 30:50
  Some guy
• 30:50
  who's
• 30:51
  building
• 30:51
  balloons
• 30:52
  in Austin,
• 30:52
  Texas.
• 30:53
  I
• 30:53
  would have
• 30:54
  called you
• 30:54
  crazy.
• 30:55
  But,
• 30:56
  you know,
• 30:56
  now,
• 30:56
  perhaps
• 30:57
  the reason,
• 30:57
  you know,
• 30:58
  we're here
• 30:58
  today.
• 30:59
  Let's
• 30:59
  perhaps
• 31:00
  discuss
• 31:01
  your
• 31:01
  interaction
• 31:01
  with
• 31:01
  the UAP
• 31:03
  conversation.
• 31:04
  And
• 31:04
  there's a
• 31:04
  few
• 31:04
  different
• 31:05
  angles
• 31:05
  here, but
• 31:05
  I'd love to
• 31:06
  kind of
• 31:06
  hear
• 31:06
  how this
• 31:07
  this came
• 31:08
  on
• 31:08
  your radar
• 31:09
  and what
• 31:09
  that looked
• 31:09
  like over
• 31:10
  time.
• 31:11
  Yeah.
• 31:11
  So back
• 31:12
  I think
• 31:13
  it was 2011
• 31:15
  time frame
• 31:16
  this
• 31:17
  post-deployment.
• 31:18
  We're out
• 31:18
  in the
• 31:19
  whiskey
• 31:19
  area of
• 31:19
  whiskey 72.
• 31:20
  As you're
• 31:21
  familiar
• 31:21
  with.
• 31:21
  The area's.
• 31:21
  Off the
• 31:22
  coast
• 31:22
  of Virginia
• 31:22
  Beach.
• 31:23
  Yeah.
• 31:23
  And my
• 31:25
  Wizo and I
• 31:25
  were flying
• 31:26
  around
• 31:26
  whiskey
• 31:26
  one Alpha.
• 31:27
  So they'll
• 31:28
  whisk.
• 31:28
  The warning
• 31:29
  areas
• 31:29
  are all
• 31:29
  carved up
• 31:30
  into
• 31:31
  basically
• 31:31
  little
• 31:31
  boxes.
• 31:32
  Right.
• 31:33
  And you
• 31:34
  schedule
• 31:35
  those boxes
• 31:35
  and
• 31:36
  reserve
• 31:36
  them for
• 31:36
  whatever
• 31:37
  training
• 31:37
  event.
• 31:37
  Right.
• 31:37
  So
• 31:37
  if you and
• 31:38
  I were
• 31:38
  going out
• 31:38
  to do
• 31:38
  a flight,
• 31:39
  we would reserve
• 31:41
  whiskey
• 31:41
  two Alpha
• 31:42
  and that
• 31:42
  would be
• 31:42
  our little
• 31:43
  playground
• 31:43
  where
• 31:44
  as long as
• 31:44
  we're
• 31:44
  inside
• 31:44
  this area,
• 31:45
  no one's
• 31:45
  going to be
• 31:46
  in there.
• 31:46
  We can be
• 31:46
  femme
• 31:47
  each other
• 31:47
  without
• 31:47
  having
• 31:47
  to worry
• 31:48
  about
• 31:48
  not hitting
• 31:48
  anyone
• 31:49
  else.
• 31:50
  But there's
• 31:50
  one area
• 31:51
  whiskey,
• 31:51
  one alpha
• 31:52
  that's
• 31:52
  kind of
• 31:52
  a
• 31:53
  playground.
• 31:53
  Anyone can
• 31:54
  go in there
• 31:54
  at any
• 31:54
  time for
• 31:55
  any reason.
• 31:55
  And so if
• 31:56
  you have
• 31:57
  to do
• 31:57
  a
• 31:57
  functional
• 31:57
  check
• 31:58
  flight on
• 31:58
  your plane,
• 31:58
  you just go
• 31:59
  to a
• 31:59
  whiskey
• 31:59
  one alpha.
• 31:59
  If you need
• 32:00
  to go
• 32:00
  burn flight
• 32:01
  time,
• 32:01
  you go
• 32:01
  to one
• 32:01
  alpha.
• 32:02
  So we're
• 32:02
  in one
• 32:03
  alpha
• 32:03
  one day
• 32:04
  and we pick
• 32:05
  someone up
• 32:05
  on our radar
• 32:06
  and we
• 32:06
  had the APG
• 32:06
  70 nines.
• 32:09
  So we
• 32:10
  picked
• 32:10
  someone up
• 32:10
  on the
• 32:10
  radar
• 32:11
  and we're
• 32:11
  like, oh,
• 32:12
  who's
• 32:12
  the asshole
• 32:13
  that's in
• 32:13
  our area?
• 32:14
  That didn't
• 32:14
  notify us
• 32:15
  that
• 32:15
  they were
• 32:16
  in the area?
• 32:16
  Because
• 32:16
  usually
• 32:17
  when you go
• 32:17
  in, you
• 32:17
  say, hey,
• 32:18
  99,
• 32:18
  which is
• 32:19
  code
• 32:19
  word for
• 32:20
  hey
• 32:20
  everyone,
• 32:20
  listen up.
• 32:21
  I have
• 32:21
  an announcement
• 32:21
  that's
• 32:22
  important
• 32:22
  for
• 32:22
  everybody.
• 32:23
  Nicole two.
• 32:23
  One's work
• 32:24
  in southern
• 32:25
  corner one
• 32:25
  Alpha.
• 32:25
  Is
• 32:26
  anyone else
• 32:26
  out here?
• 32:27
  And then
• 32:27
  everyone
• 32:27
  would
• 32:28
  respond
• 32:28
  back with
• 32:28
  where they are
• 32:29
  so that you
• 32:29
  could
• 32:30
  ensure
• 32:30
  deconfliction.
• 32:31
  It's like,
• 32:32
  oh, someone
• 32:32
  checked in
• 32:32
  and didn't
• 32:33
  respond
• 32:34
  back,
• 32:34
  so
• 32:34
  we called them
• 32:34
  on
• 32:34
  the radio.
• 32:35
  No
• 32:36
  response.
• 32:36
  We're like,
• 32:37
  the
• 32:37
  hell is this?
• 32:38
  So we go
• 32:39
  up,
• 32:39
  we
• 32:39
  try to fly
• 32:40
  by it,
• 32:40
  and we see
• 32:41
  the track
• 32:41
  file come
• 32:42
  by the window
• 32:42
  and
• 32:42
  we're like,
• 32:43
  did you see
• 32:43
  anything?
• 32:44
  He was
• 32:44
  like, no,
• 32:45
  I don't
• 32:45
  see
• 32:45
  anything.
• 32:46
  So I
• 32:46
  put the
• 32:47
  hell.
• 32:47
  Turn
• 32:47
  around.
• 32:48
  Check out
• 32:49
  a few
• 32:49
  miles, turn
• 32:49
  back around
• 32:50
  and pick it
• 32:50
  up on
• 32:50
  radar
• 32:51
  again.
• 32:51
  We're like,
• 32:52
  wow,
• 32:52
  what the hell
• 32:52
  is this
• 32:53
  thing?
• 32:53
  So
• 32:53
  we fly up
• 32:54
  and we
• 32:55
  go
• 32:55
  by again.
• 32:55
  We
• 32:55
  don't see
• 32:56
  anything.
• 32:57
  We're like,
• 32:57
  son
• 32:57
  of a bitch.
• 32:58
  I'm going
• 32:59
  to see
• 33:00
  this thing.
• 33:00
  Yeah, it's
• 33:01
  weird,
• 33:01
  right?
• 33:01
  Because,
• 33:01
  like,
• 33:01
  you trust
• 33:02
  these tools
• 33:02
  and
• 33:03
  I've told
• 33:03
  people this
• 33:03
  before,
• 33:04
  this
• 33:04
  is such a
• 33:04
  good point.
• 33:05
  I've been
• 33:06
  in that
• 33:06
  same
• 33:06
  scenario
• 33:07
  where
• 33:07
  I'm like,
• 33:07
  I need
• 33:08
  to go
• 33:08
  fly up and
• 33:08
  see
• 33:08
  this thing,
• 33:09
  and then
• 33:09
  I can't.
• 33:10
  But you're
• 33:10
  you're
• 33:11
  getting
• 33:11
  right up
• 33:12
  to it,
• 33:12
  using
• 33:12
  the tools
• 33:13
  that you
• 33:14
  trust
• 33:14
  your life
• 33:14
  with
• 33:14
  every day.
• 33:15
  And it's a
• 33:15
  very
• 33:15
  unsettling
• 33:16
  feeling
• 33:16
  when
• 33:17
  all of a
• 33:17
  sudden
• 33:17
  you're
• 33:17
  like,
• 33:18
  is it
• 33:18
  my eyes
• 33:18
  feeling?
• 33:19
  You know,
• 33:20
  what
• 33:20
  could this
• 33:21
  be?
• 33:21
  But sorry.
• 33:21
  Please
• 33:21
  continue.
• 33:22
  Yeah.
• 33:22
  We didn't
• 33:23
  have a pod.
• 33:23
  I want to say
• 33:24
  we had
• 33:24
  the helmet
• 33:25
  on
• 33:25
  the joint
• 33:25
  helmet,
• 33:26
  but I
• 33:26
  can't
• 33:26
  remember
• 33:27
  if we
• 33:27
  did have
• 33:27
  the joint
• 33:27
  helmet.
• 33:28
  I want to say
• 33:28
  we did.
• 33:30
  So we
• 33:30
  pitched
• 33:31
  back around
• 33:31
  a third
• 33:31
  time.
• 33:32
  Slow down,
• 33:32
  really
• 33:32
  slow,
• 33:34
  and
• 33:34
  we go by
• 33:34
  and we
• 33:35
  finally
• 33:35
  pick
• 33:35
  something up
• 33:36
  that's like
• 33:37
  a
• 33:37
  refrigerator,
• 33:38
  like
• 33:38
  a mini,
• 33:38
  like a
• 33:39
  character
• 33:39
  type size
• 33:40
  and
• 33:40
  silvery.
• 33:41
  And it
• 33:42
  goes.
• 33:42
  It goes
• 33:43
  zooming by.
• 33:43
  We're like,
• 33:44
  oh,
• 33:45
  this is
• 33:45
  just mylar
• 33:45
  balloon.
• 33:46
  That was
• 33:47
  we
• 33:47
  just were
• 33:47
  like, oh,
• 33:48
  I guess
• 33:48
  it was just
• 33:48
  a mylar.
• 33:49
  It looked
• 33:49
  weird.
• 33:49
  How was it
• 33:50
  behaving?
• 33:51
  It just
• 33:52
  I mean,
• 33:53
  it was
• 33:53
  always in
• 33:54
  that
• 33:54
  corner.
• 33:54
  So,
• 33:56
  you know,
• 33:56
  a little
• 33:56
  bit offset
• 33:57
  from knots,
• 33:57
  which is
• 33:58
  the entry
• 33:58
  point.
• 33:59
  It was
• 33:59
  just,
• 34:00
  you know,
• 34:00
  a couple
• 34:00
  miles
• 34:02
  what,
• 34:02
  east of
• 34:03
  knots
• 34:03
  and a
• 34:03
  couple
• 34:04
  of miles
• 34:04
  north.
• 34:04
  So it's 45
• 34:06
  degrees off
• 34:06
  from knots
• 34:07
  and like
• 34:07
  a zero, 4
• 34:08
  or 5.
• 34:08
  Appear
• 34:08
  to be
• 34:09
  drifting
• 34:09
  or.
• 34:10
  That was the same
• 34:10
  spot.
• 34:11
  So
• 34:11
  a
• 34:11
  stationary
• 34:12
  do you
• 34:12
  recall
• 34:12
  the winds?
• 34:13
  I mean,
• 34:14
  I know
• 34:14
  it's weird.
• 34:15
  Ask a pilot
• 34:15
  if they
• 34:16
  recall
• 34:16
  the wind
• 34:16
  from
• 34:17
  a flight
• 34:17
  however
• 34:17
  many years
• 34:18
  ago.
• 34:18
  But you
• 34:18
  might
• 34:19
  because.
• 34:19
  Well, it's
• 34:20
  seasonally
• 34:20
  it was,
• 34:21
  you know,
• 34:22
  at that
• 34:22
  altitude in
• 34:23
  the 20s,
• 34:24
  you're
• 34:24
  going to
• 34:24
  be dealing
• 34:24
  with 50
• 34:25
  plus.
• 34:25
  Yeah,
• 34:26
  that's
• 34:26
  exactly
• 34:26
  as I say,
• 34:27
  at least 50
• 34:27
  knots.
• 34:27
  Yeah.
• 34:28
  And so
• 34:29
  we just
• 34:30
  we came by
• 34:31
  and we saw
• 34:32
  something
• 34:32
  that was
• 34:32
  about
• 34:33
  the size of
• 34:33
  a keg
• 34:33
  crater.
• 34:34
  It was silvery.
• 34:35
  And
• 34:36
  it was also
• 34:37
  like a
• 34:38
  spherical
• 34:38
  type thing.
• 34:39
  We didn't know
• 34:40
  what
• 34:40
  it was.
• 34:40
  And
• 34:41
  we just
• 34:41
  were just
• 34:42
  like, oh,
• 34:43
  it was just
• 34:43
  a balloon.
• 34:44
  And we
• 34:44
  stopped for
• 34:44
  just
• 34:44
  a flash
• 34:45
  as it just
• 34:45
  went by.
• 34:46
  And we
• 34:47
  immediately
• 34:47
  were just
• 34:48
  like, oh,
• 34:48
  you know,
• 34:49
  there's
• 34:49
  a giant.
• 34:50
  The largest
• 34:50
  city in
• 34:51
  Virginia
• 34:51
  is right
• 34:51
  here.
• 34:52
  There's
• 34:52
  people.
• 34:53
  It's
• 34:54
  probably a
• 34:54
  party
• 34:54
  balloon.
• 34:55
  Someone
• 34:55
  popped up
• 34:56
  in the air
• 34:56
  and had
• 34:56
  drifted out
• 34:57
  and out.
• 34:58
  Have you
• 34:58
  seen a
• 34:58
  balloon
• 34:59
  before?
• 34:59
  No, I mean
• 35:01
  side for my
• 35:01
  own
• 35:01
  balloons,
• 35:02
  but never
• 35:03
  on.
• 35:04
  You know,
• 35:04
  I've seen,
• 35:04
  like,
• 35:05
  a floating
• 35:05
  balloon.
• 35:07
  Like when
• 35:07
  you're down
• 35:07
  low.
• 35:08
  I think
• 35:08
  once, once,
• 35:09
  maybe
• 35:09
  twice.
• 35:10
  It's like
• 35:10
  a couple
• 35:11
  of those.
• 35:11
  A grouping.
• 35:12
  Of party
• 35:12
  balloons.
• 35:13
  Are you
• 35:13
  solid in
• 35:13
  balloon?
• 35:14
  Broke
• 35:14
  through it,
• 35:15
  broke
• 35:15
  his tether
• 35:16
  and flew
• 35:16
  through our
• 35:16
  Fallon
• 35:17
  event.
• 35:17
  Oh, really?
• 35:18
  One of
• 35:18
  those?
• 35:19
  Yeah.
• 35:20
  I forget.
• 35:20
  What the
• 35:21
  big. Yeah.
• 35:22
  Yeah,
• 35:22
  the big
• 35:22
  blimp
• 35:22
  one's.
• 35:23
  The big
• 35:23
  blimp ones.
• 35:24
  Yeah,
• 35:24
  that wasn't
• 35:24
  a loon.
• 35:25
  That was a
• 35:26
  t t runs.
• 35:27
  Those
• 35:27
  the ones
• 35:28
  that
• 35:28
  are down
• 35:28
  in the Key
• 35:28
  West and
• 35:29
  they were
• 35:29
  in
• 35:29
  Afghanistan
• 35:30
  as well.
• 35:30
  Yeah.
• 35:31
  I just
• 35:31
  was like,
• 35:32
  oh, it's
• 35:32
  a balloon.
• 35:33
  And we just
• 35:33
  wrote it
• 35:34
  off.
• 35:34
  And then
• 35:34
  I just
• 35:35
  memory
• 35:36
  hold it
• 35:36
  and didn't
• 35:37
  think
• 35:37
  anything
• 35:38
  of it.
• 35:38
  Right.
• 35:38
  Because
• 35:39
  at the time
• 35:41
  you'd
• 35:41
  be crazy
• 35:42
  to say
• 35:42
  like it
• 35:42
  was a UFO
• 35:43
  or you had
• 35:43
  no reason
• 35:44
  to like.
• 35:44
  Yeah, it's
• 35:45
  limited
• 35:45
  information.
• 35:46
  Yeah.
• 35:46
  And you're
• 35:46
  like, okay,
• 35:47
  I just
• 35:47
  spent like,
• 35:48
  I just
• 35:49
  spent three
• 35:50
  attempts,
• 35:51
  15 minutes
• 35:51
  to try
• 35:52
  to find
• 35:52
  this thing,
• 35:52
  and it's
• 35:53
  a party
• 35:53
  balloon
• 35:53
  hippie
• 35:54
  shit.
• 35:54
  Like,
• 35:54
  I don't
• 35:55
  want to
• 35:55
  go see it.
• 35:55
  I
• 35:55
  don't need
• 35:56
  to see it
• 35:56
  again.
• 35:57
  So we just
• 35:57
  kind of,
• 35:58
  like, wrote
• 35:58
  it often,
• 35:58
  think about it.
• 35:59
  And then
• 36:01
  fast
• 36:01
  forward to
• 36:02
  two or so
• 36:03
  years ago,
• 36:04
  maybe three
• 36:04
  years ago,
• 36:05
  my brother
• 36:06
  in law,
• 36:07
  Jordan
• 36:07
  Flowers,
• 36:08
  who is now
• 36:09
  the
• 36:09
  executive
• 36:10
  director of
• 36:11
  the UAP
• 36:12
  Disclosure
• 36:12
  Foundation,
• 36:13
  I think
• 36:13
  they just
• 36:14
  rebranded
• 36:14
  to.
• 36:15
  He's always
• 36:15
  asking me
• 36:15
  questions
• 36:16
  or plots
• 36:16
  perspective.
• 36:17
  Show me
• 36:17
  a video
• 36:17
  and be
• 36:18
  like, hey,
• 36:18
  break this
• 36:19
  video down
• 36:19
  like
• 36:20
  be a critic
• 36:21
  and
• 36:21
  tell me why
• 36:21
  this is
• 36:22
  not a UFO.
• 36:23
  And so I'll
• 36:24
  always be
• 36:24
  this,
• 36:24
  you know,
• 36:25
  I'll be a
• 36:25
  good
• 36:25
  skeptic
• 36:26
  and say,
• 36:26
  this is why
• 36:27
  I think
• 36:27
  this is
• 36:27
  bullshit.
• 36:28
  And so
• 36:28
  he's like,
• 36:29
  hey,
• 36:29
  I want you
• 36:29
  to connect
• 36:30
  to this
• 36:30
  guy.
• 36:31
  I won't
• 36:32
  say
• 36:32
  his name,
• 36:33
  but
• 36:33
  he was a
• 36:33
  big UFO
• 36:33
  guy, a huge
• 36:34
  name in
• 36:34
  the space.
• 36:35
  I just don't know
• 36:35
  if he
• 36:35
  wants me
• 36:36
  to let
• 36:36
  people
• 36:36
  know.
• 36:36
  I was
• 36:37
  talking
• 36:37
  to him.
• 36:37
  He was like,
• 36:38
  hey, I'll
• 36:38
  talk to you.
• 36:39
  So
• 36:40
  give him a call.
• 36:40
  And he was
• 36:41
  asking me
• 36:41
  about this
• 36:42
  UFO
• 36:42
  encounter
• 36:43
  down in
• 36:44
  that were
• 36:45
  these two.
• 36:45
  F-22 saw
• 36:46
  this
• 36:46
  Tic-Tac
• 36:47
  shape thing
• 36:47
  between
• 36:48
  them.
• 36:48
  And so
• 36:49
  I was
• 36:49
  kind of
• 36:49
  offering
• 36:50
  my opinion
• 36:50
  of it. Why?
• 36:51
  You know,
• 36:52
  I thought
• 36:52
  it was,
• 36:52
  you know,
• 36:52
  valid,
• 36:53
  you know,
• 36:53
  encounter,
• 36:54
  blah, blah,
• 36:54
  blah, blah.
• 36:55
  We were talking
• 36:55
  about it.
• 36:56
  And then he
• 36:56
  goes, well,
• 36:56
  have you
• 36:56
  ever had
• 36:57
  an encounter
• 36:58
  with you?
• 36:58
  You finally
• 36:59
  asked
• 36:59
  for all
• 36:59
  that's
• 37:00
  on it.
• 37:01
  And now
• 37:02
  keep in
• 37:02
  mind, like,
• 37:03
  I've been
• 37:03
  in the
• 37:03
  balloon
• 37:03
  space
• 37:04
  and I
• 37:04
  have
• 37:05
  balloons,
• 37:05
  and I
• 37:06
  thought
• 37:07
  that that
• 37:08
  one
• 37:08
  encounter
• 37:08
  pop
• 37:09
  back into
• 37:09
  my mind,
• 37:10
  encounter
• 37:10
  real time
• 37:11
  on
• 37:11
  the call,
• 37:11
  I was
• 37:11
  like, well,
• 37:12
  this
• 37:12
  one time
• 37:13
  we saw
• 37:13
  something
• 37:13
  that we
• 37:14
  thought
• 37:14
  was a
• 37:14
  mylar
• 37:15
  balloon.
• 37:16
  But
• 37:16
  now that
• 37:16
  I know
• 37:17
  about
• 37:17
  balloons,
• 37:18
  that was not
• 37:18
  a balloon
• 37:19
  like
• 37:19
  no chance
• 37:20
  that was
• 37:20
  a balloon
• 37:21
  didn't
• 37:22
  behave like
• 37:22
  a balloon.
• 37:23
  It was a floating
• 37:24
  like
• 37:24
  a balloon.
• 37:24
  It was a
• 37:24
  moving
• 37:25
  like
• 37:25
  balloon.
• 37:25
  It was a shape,
• 37:26
  like
• 37:26
  a balloon.
• 37:28
  And so
• 37:29
  I was like,
• 37:29
  yeah,
• 37:29
  actually
• 37:30
  I did.
• 37:30
  And then I
• 37:30
  reached out
• 37:31
  to my back
• 37:31
  seater.
• 37:33
  I was like,
• 37:33
  hey, man,
• 37:33
  do you
• 37:33
  remember
• 37:34
  that thing
• 37:34
  we saw
• 37:35
  on the
• 37:35
  whiskey?
• 37:35
  He's like,
• 37:36
  yeah, like,
• 37:37
  dude,
• 37:38
  you think
• 37:38
  that
• 37:38
  may have
• 37:38
  been a UFO?
• 37:39
  And he's
• 37:39
  like,
• 37:40
  yeah, man.
• 37:41
  Like I'm
• 37:42
  pretty sure
• 37:42
  it was.
• 37:43
  And so we,
• 37:45
  we kind
• 37:45
  of like
• 37:45
  both like
• 37:46
  reminisced
• 37:46
  about it
• 37:47
  over
• 37:47
  a phone
• 37:48
  call and,
• 37:49
  and I
• 37:50
  was like,
• 37:50
  yeah,
• 37:50
  I think
• 37:51
  that
• 37:51
  may have
• 37:51
  actually
• 37:52
  been one
• 37:52
  because
• 37:53
  it didn't.
• 37:53
  It was
• 37:54
  it was
• 37:54
  definitely
• 37:54
  not a
• 37:55
  balloon.
• 37:56
  It's
• 37:56
  definitely
• 37:56
  something
• 37:56
  we were
• 37:57
  seeing
• 37:57
  on radar
• 37:57
  or
• 37:57
  something
• 37:57
  we saw
• 37:58
  with
• 37:58
  our own
• 37:58
  eyes.
• 37:58
  It was
• 37:59
  moving
• 37:59
  fast.
• 37:59
  And now
• 38:00
  like,
• 38:02
  like
• 38:02
  there's
• 38:03
  no doubt
• 38:03
  in.
• 38:03
  My mind
• 38:04
  moving
• 38:04
  fast.
• 38:04
  Or the
• 38:06
  third time
• 38:06
  we saw
• 38:07
  the third time
• 38:07
  when we
• 38:08
  picked it
• 38:08
  up, when we
• 38:08
  actually
• 38:09
  got eyes on
• 38:10
  and it
• 38:10
  just moved
• 38:11
  by the
• 38:11
  aircraft
• 38:11
  so fast,
• 38:12
  I was
• 38:12
  like, oh,
• 38:13
  we're
• 38:13
  moving fast
• 38:14
  as an
• 38:14
  airplane.
• 38:14
  So it's
• 38:15
  just.
• 38:15
  Well,
• 38:15
  that's
• 38:16
  interesting
• 38:16
  though.
• 38:16
  Yeah, it's
• 38:17
  hard to
• 38:17
  tell.
• 38:18
  And but
• 38:19
  it's
• 38:19
  interesting
• 38:20
  that
• 38:20
  it wasn't
• 38:20
  visible
• 38:21
  the times
• 38:21
  when it was
• 38:21
  stationary
• 38:22
  and then
• 38:22
  it was
• 38:23
  when it's
• 38:23
  physical.
• 38:23
  I don't know
• 38:24
  if that's
• 38:24
  important,
• 38:24
  but
• 38:25
  I'm just
• 38:25
  going to
• 38:25
  point out
• 38:25
  that
• 38:26
  seems to be
• 38:26
  the pattern.
• 38:27
  And maybe
• 38:27
  yeah, maybe
• 38:28
  it was
• 38:28
  more
• 38:28
  visible
• 38:29
  that way.
• 38:29
  You know,
• 38:30
  if
• 38:30
  there were
• 38:30
  highly
• 38:31
  reflective
• 38:31
  and
• 38:31
  stationary
• 38:32
  it'd be
• 38:32
  very hard
• 38:33
  to see
• 38:33
  up there.
• 38:33
  Right?
• 38:34
  Well,
• 38:35
  I mean,
• 38:35
  like,
• 38:35
  maybe
• 38:35
  we just
• 38:36
  maybe
• 38:36
  my intercept
• 38:37
  geometry
• 38:37
  was off
• 38:37
  and I was
• 38:38
  flying
• 38:38
  over it,
• 38:39
  and so
• 38:39
  I couldn't
• 38:39
  see below
• 38:40
  the airplane
• 38:40
  or maybe
• 38:41
  it was
• 38:42
  coming on
• 38:42
  and just
• 38:43
  like, no,
• 38:43
  I'm just
• 38:43
  dip down
• 38:44
  real quick
• 38:44
  and get
• 38:44
  out of
• 38:44
  the way
• 38:45
  of this.
• 38:45
  This is.
• 38:46
  Very
• 38:46
  common,
• 38:46
  though,
• 38:46
  that people
• 38:47
  are having
• 38:47
  a hard time
• 38:48
  seeing it,
• 38:48
  you know,
• 38:49
  from my
• 38:49
  conversations
• 38:50
  and
• 38:50
  whatnot.
• 38:51
  Yeah.
• 38:51
  Well, okay.
• 38:52
  Well,
• 38:52
  thanks for
• 38:52
  sharing
• 38:53
  that.
• 38:53
  It's,
• 38:54
  you know,
• 38:54
  when people
• 38:54
  are having
• 38:55
  this
• 38:55
  conversation.
• 38:56
  Right.
• 38:56
  And it's
• 38:57
  it would
• 38:58
  never enter
• 38:58
  your mind.
• 38:59
  It's easy
• 39:00
  to just
• 39:00
  pigeonhole
• 39:01
  it
• 39:01
  and throw
• 39:01
  it away,
• 39:02
  even
• 39:02
  under the,
• 39:03
  even under
• 39:03
  like the
• 39:04
  best
• 39:04
  circumstances,
• 39:04
  because
• 39:05
  you're
• 39:05
  actually
• 39:06
  out there
• 39:06
  to do
• 39:06
  something.
• 39:07
  So usually
• 39:08
  you don't
• 39:09
  have the
• 39:09
  agency
• 39:09
  to just
• 39:10
  go around
• 39:10
  and
• 39:10
  investigate
• 39:11
  random
• 39:11
  objects,
• 39:12
  especially
• 39:12
  if there's
• 39:13
  not nothing
• 39:13
  being done.
• 39:14
  But maybe
• 39:15
  just like
• 39:15
  a light
• 39:15
  Notam right
• 39:16
  to say
• 39:17
  use caution
• 39:17
  because now
• 39:18
  it's like,
• 39:18
  well,
• 39:19
  why
• 39:19
  did you decide
• 39:20
  that
• 39:20
  this was
• 39:20
  important
• 39:21
  enough
• 39:21
  to go
• 39:22
  look at,
• 39:22
  you know,
• 39:22
  if were
• 39:23
  there to be
• 39:23
  an
• 39:23
  accident,
• 39:24
  right.
• 39:24
  So actually
• 39:25
  kind of
• 39:26
  decentralizing
• 39:27
  you,
• 39:28
  I would
• 39:28
  think,
• 39:28
  you know,
• 39:29
  it now
• 39:29
  creates
• 39:29
  that
• 39:30
  kind of risk
• 39:30
  if there's
• 39:31
  a rule
• 39:31
  about it
• 39:31
  now. Right.
• 39:32
  But you
• 39:33
  know, what
• 39:33
  I've been
• 39:34
  trying to
• 39:34
  advocate
• 39:35
  for here
• 39:35
  with some
• 39:36
  success
• 39:36
  is that
• 39:38
  if pilots
• 39:39
  like
• 39:39
  yourself
• 39:40
  or others
• 39:40
  that are
• 39:41
  flying now
• 39:42
  understood
• 39:43
  the larger
• 39:43
  trend,
• 39:44
  that there
• 39:45
  were
• 39:45
  numerous
• 39:46
  objects
• 39:46
  in those
• 39:47
  areas
• 39:47
  at the time,
• 39:48
  then
• 39:48
  you would
• 39:48
  have been
• 39:49
  much less
• 39:50
  likely
• 39:50
  to just
• 39:51
  ignore
• 39:51
  that
• 39:51
  information
• 39:52
  right off
• 39:52
  as
• 39:52
  a balloon.
• 39:53
  If you understood
• 39:55
  that larger
• 39:55
  trend,
• 39:55
  if
• 39:56
  there was
• 39:56
  a
• 39:56
  collection
• 39:57
  system
• 39:57
  in place,
• 39:58
  there are
• 39:59
  indications
• 40:00
  from folks
• 40:00
  that are
• 40:01
  still
• 40:01
  flying that
• 40:01
  that's,
• 40:02
  you know,
• 40:03
  that we're
• 40:03
  moving in
• 40:04
  that
• 40:04
  direction.
• 40:04
  But I
• 40:05
  think,
• 40:05
  you know,
• 40:05
  there's
• 40:06
  still some
• 40:06
  obstacles
• 40:07
  to
• 40:08
  overcome.
• 40:08
  But,
• 40:09
  you know,
• 40:10
  that's
• 40:10
  those are
• 40:10
  the
• 40:11
  opportunities,
• 40:11
  I think,
• 40:11
  that
• 40:12
  we're
• 40:12
  missing
• 40:13
  to
• 40:13
  learn
• 40:13
  more about
• 40:13
  this,
• 40:14
  right,
• 40:14
  because
• 40:15
  of just
• 40:15
  those
• 40:15
  reasons.
• 40:16
  And people
• 40:16
  always
• 40:16
  ask me
• 40:16
  why pilots
• 40:17
  don't
• 40:17
  report
• 40:17
  more.
• 40:17
  And it's
• 40:18
  really just
• 40:18
  often
• 40:19
  probably
• 40:19
  for similar
• 40:19
  reasons
• 40:20
  like that,
• 40:20
  or at least
• 40:21
  it used to
• 40:21
  be,
• 40:21
  although
• 40:21
  I think
• 40:22
  that's
• 40:22
  that's
• 40:23
  changed.
• 40:24
  You know,
• 40:24
  you're
• 40:25
  outside of
• 40:26
  your
• 40:26
  experience.
• 40:26
  You said
• 40:27
  you
• 40:27
  pigeonholed it,
• 40:27
  but between
• 40:30
  when
• 40:30
  you had
• 40:30
  that event
• 40:31
  and,
• 40:32
  you know,
• 40:32
  when
• 40:32
  you had
• 40:33
  those
• 40:33
  conversations
• 40:34
  with your
• 40:34
  brother
• 40:34
  in law
• 40:35
  a few years
• 40:35
  ago.
• 40:36
  Do you
• 40:36
  track
• 40:37
  any of what
• 40:37
  was
• 40:37
  happening
• 40:39
  in the
• 40:39
  public
• 40:39
  with,
• 40:40
  say,
• 40:40
  the 2017
• 40:41
  year times
• 40:42
  article,
• 40:43
  the
• 40:43
  hearings
• 40:43
  in 2023,
• 40:44
  maybe
• 40:45
  before
• 40:45
  or after
• 40:46
  your
• 40:46
  conversations
• 40:47
  with
• 40:47
  Jordan?
• 40:47
  Were there
• 40:48
  any
• 40:48
  conversations
• 40:48
  that are
• 40:49
  ready
• 40:49
  about this
• 40:50
  or it's
• 40:50
  just off
• 40:51
  your radar
• 40:51
  until then?
• 40:52
  Well,
• 40:52
  I'd
• 40:52
  followed
• 40:53
  obviously
• 40:53
  the
• 40:53
  disclosures,
• 40:54
  right?
• 40:54
  The TikTok,
• 40:55
  the gimbal
• 40:56
  video,
• 40:56
  all the work
• 40:57
  you did
• 40:58
  and
• 40:58
  disclosing.
• 40:59
  And I mean,
• 40:59
  early on
• 41:00
  when Jordan
• 41:01
  was in
• 41:01
  that space,
• 41:02
  he's like,
• 41:02
  hey,
• 41:02
  do you know
• 41:02
  Ryan
• 41:03
  Graves?
• 41:03
  And
• 41:03
  he was
• 41:03
  one of
• 41:03
  my
• 41:04
  students.
• 41:05
  He went
• 41:05
  and went to
• 41:06
  my air
• 41:06
  wing
• 41:06
  after I
• 41:07
  left.
• 41:07
  But,
• 41:07
  you know,
• 41:08
  I don't know
• 41:08
  him
• 41:08
  personally,
• 41:10
  aside from
• 41:10
  the fact
• 41:11
  that like.
• 41:11
  During the
• 41:11
  same writer
• 41:12
  room at.
• 41:12
  Some point,
• 41:12
  in the same
• 41:13
  writing
• 41:13
  room at
• 41:13
  some point,
• 41:14
  but like,
• 41:14
  I don't
• 41:14
  know him
• 41:16
  to get
• 41:16
  people
• 41:16
  who know
• 41:16
  him,
• 41:17
  I can
• 41:17
  tell you
• 41:17
  what people
• 41:18
  say
• 41:18
  about him,
• 41:18
  but
• 41:18
  I don't know
• 41:19
  who he is.
• 41:20
  We can hold
• 41:21
  those
• 41:21
  comments
• 41:21
  for you.
• 41:23
  Well,
• 41:23
  there's
• 41:23
  always
• 41:23
  going to be
• 41:24
  haters,
• 41:24
  right?
• 41:24
  So like,
• 41:25
  there's
• 41:25
  going to
• 41:25
  be people
• 41:25
  who are
• 41:26
  going to
• 41:26
  shit on me
• 41:26
  for talking
• 41:27
  about this
• 41:28
  and be
• 41:28
  like, oh,
• 41:28
  you really?
• 41:28
  You had
• 41:29
  a UFO
• 41:29
  experience?
• 41:30
  Like,
• 41:30
  who gives
• 41:30
  a shit?
• 41:31
  Like,
• 41:31
  I don't know
• 41:32
  for certain
• 41:33
  UFO
• 41:33
  experience,
• 41:33
  but I'm
• 41:34
  pretty sure
• 41:34
  it was.
• 41:35
  And it
• 41:36
  speaks to
• 41:37
  kind of
• 41:37
  like
• 41:37
  the culture
• 41:38
  of the site
• 41:38
  guys.
• 41:39
  You know,
• 41:39
  at
• 41:39
  that time
• 41:40
  when you
• 41:40
  started
• 41:40
  giving
• 41:41
  that
• 41:41
  permission
• 41:41
  structure
• 41:41
  to say
• 41:42
  like, hey,
• 41:42
  there's
• 41:42
  a lot of
• 41:43
  things
• 41:43
  out here
• 41:44
  that people
• 41:44
  are seeing
• 41:45
  with their
• 41:45
  eyes,
• 41:45
  their
• 41:45
  sensors,
• 41:46
  like there
• 41:47
  there are
• 41:48
  things
• 41:48
  that are
• 41:48
  operating
• 41:48
  in Moas.
• 41:50
  We should
• 41:51
  look at it
• 41:51
  not only
• 41:52
  from like,
• 41:52
  what the hell
• 41:53
  is that?
• 41:53
  But also
• 41:53
  like,
• 41:54
  we
• 41:54
  don't want
• 41:54
  to hit
• 41:55
  these things
• 41:55
  either
• 41:55
  because
• 41:56
  that could
• 41:56
  cause
• 41:56
  a problem
• 41:57
  and that
• 41:58
  gives
• 41:59
  people
• 41:59
  the
• 41:59
  permission
• 41:59
  structure
• 42:00
  to start
• 42:00
  saying
• 42:00
  like, oh,
• 42:01
  I saw this.
• 42:01
  And then
• 42:02
  when
• 42:02
  someone
• 42:03
  says, I saw
• 42:04
  someone
• 42:04
  else goes,
• 42:04
  okay, well,
• 42:05
  if I see
• 42:05
  one of
• 42:05
  those now,
• 42:06
  I can
• 42:06
  say it.
• 42:08
  And,
• 42:08
  you know,
• 42:08
  back when
• 42:09
  we were
• 42:10
  when,
• 42:10
  when we had
• 42:10
  our little,
• 42:11
  like,
• 42:11
  flyby,
• 42:12
  you know,
• 42:13
  we knew
• 42:13
  there
• 42:13
  were a
• 42:14
  lot of things
• 42:14
  at the
• 42:14
  time.
• 42:14
  We knew
• 42:15
  that APG
• 42:15
  79 had
• 42:16
  problems
• 42:17
  with ghost
• 42:17
  track
• 42:18
  files.
• 42:18
  It's
• 42:18
  like if
• 42:19
  you see
• 42:19
  something
• 42:20
  that's,
• 42:21
  you know,
• 42:21
  28,000ft on
• 42:23
  the dot,
• 42:23
  you're
• 42:23
  like, well,
• 42:24
  I don't know
• 42:24
  if this
• 42:25
  UFO's got
• 42:25
  a barometer
• 42:27
  setting
• 42:27
  to be right
• 42:28
  at
• 42:28
  28,000ft.
• 42:29
  It's pretty
• 42:29
  interesting
• 42:30
  that
• 42:30
  they're
• 42:30
  following
• 42:30
  our rules,
• 42:31
  but like
• 42:31
  it's
• 42:31
  probably a
• 42:32
  ghost
• 42:32
  track file.
• 42:33
  So you
• 42:34
  learn
• 42:34
  especially
• 42:34
  with Abd
• 42:35
  79,
• 42:35
  you're like
• 42:36
  try to
• 42:36
  learn like
• 42:37
  what was
• 42:38
  something
• 42:38
  real or
• 42:39
  versus
• 42:39
  a ghost
• 42:39
  track file
• 42:40
  or just
• 42:40
  straight
• 42:41
  trans or
• 42:41
  whatever
• 42:41
  off board.
• 42:43
  And so
• 42:44
  you just
• 42:44
  kind of
• 42:45
  like
• 42:45
  because
• 42:47
  you're
• 42:47
  trained,
• 42:48
  you know,
• 42:48
  in air
• 42:49
  to air
• 42:49
  combat
• 42:49
  to like
• 42:50
  grab
• 42:50
  a piece
• 42:50
  of
• 42:50
  information.
• 42:51
  Is this
• 42:51
  relevant?
• 42:52
  Note
• 42:52
  boom out
• 42:53
  like pilots
• 42:54
  are
• 42:54
  designed
• 42:55
  to be,
• 42:56
  you know,
• 42:56
  ADHD
• 42:57
  machines
• 42:57
  that
• 42:58
  can look
• 42:58
  at a bunch
• 42:58
  of
• 42:58
  different
• 42:59
  stuff,
• 42:59
  process
• 42:59
  information
• 43:00
  and just
• 43:00
  filter
• 43:01
  information
• 43:01
  out, take
• 43:02
  information
• 43:02
  in.
• 43:03
  So writing
• 43:03
  something
• 43:04
  off, just
• 43:05
  culturally
• 43:06
  at the time
• 43:07
  was just
• 43:07
  normal.
• 43:08
  Right.
• 43:08
  And then
• 43:08
  but I think
• 43:09
  now that
• 43:09
  the space
• 43:10
  has been
• 43:10
  breached
• 43:11
  and
• 43:11
  people can
• 43:11
  talk
• 43:11
  about it,
• 43:13
  you're able
• 43:13
  to give
• 43:14
  people
• 43:14
  permission
• 43:14
  to say
• 43:15
  like, yeah,
• 43:15
  I saw that.
• 43:16
  And you
• 43:17
  know,
• 43:17
  people
• 43:17
  are
• 43:18
  looked at
• 43:18
  as being
• 43:18
  crazy,
• 43:19
  right?
• 43:19
  Some of
• 43:19
  the people
• 43:19
  in my
• 43:20
  generation
• 43:21
  of pilots
• 43:22
  might still
• 43:22
  kind of
• 43:23
  be like,
• 43:23
  oh,
• 43:23
  some of
• 43:23
  these guys
• 43:24
  are crazy.
• 43:24
  They're,
• 43:25
  you know,
• 43:25
  lunatics,
• 43:26
  but
• 43:26
  that doesn't
• 43:27
  matter
• 43:27
  because
• 43:27
  we're not
• 43:27
  flying
• 43:28
  hornets
• 43:28
  anymore,
• 43:28
  like
• 43:29
  most of
• 43:29
  us aren't.
• 43:29
  But the
• 43:30
  younger
• 43:30
  generation
• 43:31
  now,
• 43:32
  those guys
• 43:32
  at least
• 43:32
  are more
• 43:33
  comfortable
• 43:34
  to talk
• 43:34
  about
• 43:34
  this stuff.
• 43:35
  Which means
• 43:35
  that
• 43:36
  slowly,
• 43:36
  we'll
• 43:36
  probably
• 43:37
  get more
• 43:37
  information
• 43:38
  that can
• 43:39
  point to
• 43:39
  something
• 43:40
  that is
• 43:41
  actually
• 43:41
  valuable
• 43:42
  to
• 43:42
  figure out
• 43:43
  what is
• 43:43
  causing these,
• 43:44
  where are they
• 43:44
  coming
• 43:44
  from?
• 43:45
  Who's
• 43:46
  controlling
• 43:46
  them?
• 43:47
  You know
• 43:48
  what?
• 43:49
  Why
• 43:49
  are they
• 43:49
  here?
• 43:49
  Why are in this
• 43:50
  space?
• 43:51
  And I heard
• 43:51
  someone
• 43:51
  say
• 43:51
  something
• 43:52
  important
• 43:52
  the other
• 43:52
  day.
• 43:53
  You know,
• 43:54
  when
• 43:54
  you look
• 43:54
  at what
• 43:55
  we did
• 43:55
  to go
• 43:55
  pick up
• 43:56
  that pilot,
• 43:56
  those
• 43:56
  pilots
• 43:57
  in, in
• 43:59
  Iran,
• 44:00
  all the
• 44:00
  resources
• 44:01
  to go
• 44:01
  pick
• 44:01
  them up
• 44:02
  to
• 44:02
  keep them
• 44:02
  alive.
• 44:03
  Why would we be
• 44:04
  testing our
• 44:05
  own
• 44:05
  technology
• 44:06
  and arrange
• 44:06
  and not
• 44:06
  telling
• 44:07
  other
• 44:07
  people?
• 44:08
  You know,
• 44:08
  I've
• 44:08
  been out
• 44:09
  to the,
• 44:09
  you know,
• 44:10
  the knitter
• 44:11
  ranges
• 44:12
  like they
• 44:12
  don't
• 44:13
  fuck around
• 44:13
  with safety
• 44:13
  over there.
• 44:14
  No one.
• 44:15
  We were
• 44:15
  just doing
• 44:16
  flight
• 44:16
  testing
• 44:17
  in the
• 44:17
  National
• 44:17
  training
• 44:17
  complex.
• 44:18
  Lose a
• 44:19
  unique
• 44:19
  asset,
• 44:19
  right?
• 44:20
  Like.
• 44:20
  Yeah,
• 44:21
  you don't
• 44:21
  want
• 44:21
  to lose
• 44:22
  a unique
• 44:22
  asset
• 44:23
  because it
• 44:23
  hits an 18
• 44:24
  and
• 44:24
  you don't
• 44:24
  want to
• 44:25
  have some
• 44:26
  to tell
• 44:26
  some wife
• 44:27
  and kid
• 44:28
  that
• 44:28
  their dads gone
• 44:29
  because
• 44:30
  they were
• 44:30
  testing
• 44:31
  something
• 44:31
  in a range
• 44:32
  and didn't
• 44:32
  clear it
• 44:33
  with
• 44:33
  anybody.
• 44:33
  Like, it's
• 44:34
  just it's
• 44:35
  it's
• 44:35
  like that
• 44:36
  concept
• 44:37
  doesn't
• 44:37
  hold wait
• 44:37
  for me
• 44:38
  when people
• 44:38
  are like,
• 44:38
  oh, it's
• 44:38
  a military
• 44:39
  just
• 44:39
  testing its
• 44:39
  own
• 44:40
  technology
• 44:40
  without telling
• 44:41
  the pilots.
• 44:41
  Like,
• 44:42
  that's
• 44:42
  stupid.
• 44:42
  One of the
• 44:43
  easiest
• 44:43
  ones to
• 44:43
  dismiss.
• 44:44
  Yeah,
• 44:44
  it is
• 44:45
  really dumb.
• 44:45
  And there's
• 44:46
  procedures
• 44:46
  in place.
• 44:47
  If they did
• 44:48
  have to
• 44:49
  tell
• 44:49
  something
• 44:50
  and we had
• 44:50
  to be
• 44:51
  exposed
• 44:51
  to it,
• 44:51
  or
• 44:52
  purposely
• 44:52
  or
• 44:52
  accidentally,
• 44:53
  right.
• 44:54
  There's,
• 44:54
  as you're
• 44:54
  aware,
• 44:55
  process of
• 44:55
  procedures
• 44:56
  if there's
• 44:56
  accidental
• 44:57
  spillage
• 44:57
  and things
• 44:57
  of that
• 44:58
  nature,
• 44:58
  which is
• 44:59
  exactly
• 44:59
  what
• 44:59
  that would
• 45:00
  be, right?
• 45:00
  Anyone
• 45:01
  who's
• 45:01
  operated
• 45:01
  around
• 45:02
  black
• 45:02
  programs
• 45:02
  at all
• 45:03
  knows that,
• 45:03
  like,
• 45:04
  you don't
• 45:04
  just stop
• 45:05
  being safe
• 45:06
  when you go
• 45:06
  into a
• 45:06
  black
• 45:06
  program.
• 45:07
  People
• 45:08
  that
• 45:08
  go into
• 45:08
  those
• 45:08
  programs
• 45:09
  are
• 45:09
  experienced,
• 45:10
  talented
• 45:10
  aviators
• 45:11
  and all
• 45:12
  the other
• 45:13
  support
• 45:13
  personnel.
• 45:13
  They go
• 45:14
  along
• 45:14
  with that.
• 45:15
  They don't
• 45:15
  just stop
• 45:16
  becoming
• 45:17
  safe,
• 45:17
  talented
• 45:17
  aviators
• 45:18
  and safe,
• 45:19
  talented
• 45:19
  professionals
• 45:20
  when they
• 45:21
  cross into
• 45:21
  that black
• 45:22
  program.
• 45:23
  Like those
• 45:25
  procedures,
• 45:26
  those
• 45:26
  techniques
• 45:26
  as
• 45:26
  policies,
• 45:27
  the
• 45:27
  airspace
• 45:28
  deconfliction
• 45:28
  like that
• 45:29
  all carries
• 45:29
  with that.
• 45:30
  I would
• 45:30
  suggest
• 45:30
  it's even
• 45:31
  more
• 45:31
  important
• 45:31
  because if
• 45:32
  you do
• 45:32
  any of
• 45:33
  those
• 45:33
  things
• 45:33
  wrong, it's
• 45:33
  going to
• 45:34
  bring
• 45:34
  attention
• 45:34
  to your
• 45:34
  program.
• 45:35
  To
• 45:35
  your program,
• 45:36
  and you're
• 45:36
  going
• 45:36
  to lose
• 45:36
  an asset
• 45:37
  that is
• 45:38
  probably
• 45:39
  one
• 45:39
  of a kind.
• 45:39
  And then
• 45:40
  ultimately
• 45:40
  maybe
• 45:41
  even
• 45:41
  shut down
• 45:41
  the whole thing,
• 45:42
  right,
• 45:42
  just
• 45:42
  because
• 45:43
  it's been
• 45:43
  revealed.
• 45:43
  So
• 45:44
  the think
• 45:44
  that
• 45:44
  we've
• 45:44
  been just
• 45:45
  testing
• 45:45
  stuff
• 45:45
  against
• 45:46
  ourselves
• 45:46
  over
• 45:46
  international
• 45:47
  waters
• 45:47
  for almost
• 45:48
  a decade
• 45:48
  now,
• 45:49
  obviously,
• 45:50
  it's hard
• 45:50
  to reason
• 45:50
  that that
• 45:51
  would
• 45:51
  be true.
• 45:52
  Yeah.
• 45:52
  And why
• 45:53
  test it
• 45:53
  with
• 45:53
  someone
• 45:53
  who's not
• 45:54
  paying
• 45:54
  attention?
• 45:55
  Because if
• 45:55
  you're
• 45:55
  testing,
• 45:55
  you need
• 45:56
  to get data
• 45:56
  from
• 45:56
  the test.
• 45:57
  You want
• 45:58
  the other person
• 45:59
  to
• 45:59
  be in on it
• 46:00
  so they can
• 46:00
  give you
• 46:01
  the data
• 46:01
  that
• 46:01
  they want.
• 46:02
  Anyone
• 46:02
  who's done
• 46:02
  a test
• 46:03
  program,
• 46:03
  those
• 46:03
  like, it's
• 46:04
  a cooperative
• 46:05
  effort,
• 46:05
  like, hey,
• 46:06
  there's
• 46:07
  engineers
• 46:07
  who say,
• 46:07
  these are
• 46:08
  the
• 46:08
  parameters
• 46:08
  I need.
• 46:09
  The test
• 46:09
  pilot
• 46:09
  builds a
• 46:10
  flight
• 46:10
  profile
• 46:11
  that goes out
• 46:11
  and tries
• 46:12
  to get
• 46:12
  the
• 46:12
  engineers
• 46:13
  the data
• 46:13
  that they
• 46:14
  need.
• 46:14
  So
• 46:14
  everyone's
• 46:15
  on board
• 46:15
  with it.
• 46:15
  They design
• 46:16
  the flight
• 46:16
  around
• 46:16
  that.
• 46:17
  It doesn't
• 46:18
  make sense
• 46:18
  to to
• 46:19
  just go
• 46:20
  willy
• 46:20
  nilly testing.
• 46:21
  And if it's
• 46:21
  another
• 46:22
  if it's
• 46:22
  an
• 46:22
  adversary
• 46:23
  nation,
• 46:23
  like,
• 46:24
  why would you
• 46:24
  go to
• 46:26
  park it.
• 46:26
  For the
• 46:27
  same logic,
• 46:27
  right?
• 46:28
  Same logic,
• 46:29
  expose a
• 46:29
  critical
• 46:30
  technology
• 46:31
  where it's
• 46:32
  extremely
• 46:32
  easy to
• 46:33
  potentially
• 46:33
  be
• 46:34
  recovered
• 46:34
  by your
• 46:34
  adversary,
• 46:35
  who then
• 46:35
  exploit
• 46:36
  that
• 46:36
  technology
• 46:36
  or minimize
• 46:37
  the
• 46:37
  advantage
• 46:38
  of gave
• 46:38
  you.
• 46:38
  Russia
• 46:39
  and China
• 46:39
  have vast
• 46:41
  swaths of
• 46:41
  unpopulated
• 46:42
  land
• 46:42
  they can go
• 46:43
  test over.
• 46:43
  And they do
• 46:44
  like
• 46:44
  why
• 46:45
  would they
• 46:45
  do it off
• 46:45
  the
• 46:45
  coast of
• 46:46
  Virginia
• 46:46
  Beach?
• 46:47
  It just
• 46:47
  doesn't
• 46:48
  make any
• 46:48
  sense.
• 46:49
  Everything
• 46:49
  points
• 46:50
  to like
• 46:50
  this is
• 46:51
  not
• 46:52
  something
• 46:52
  that anyone
• 46:53
  who thinks
• 46:54
  like a
• 46:54
  human
• 46:55
  and reasons
• 46:56
  like a
• 46:56
  human,
• 46:57
  especially
• 46:57
  reasons
• 46:58
  like an
• 46:58
  adversary
• 46:59
  or
• 47:00
  a military
• 47:00
  person
• 47:01
  would would
• 47:02
  think to
• 47:02
  do.
• 47:03
  Have you
• 47:03
  heard of
• 47:04
  any other,
• 47:05
  you know,
• 47:05
  just even
• 47:05
  if they're
• 47:06
  anecdotal
• 47:07
  stories
• 47:07
  from
• 47:07
  squadron
• 47:08
  mates
• 47:08
  or others
• 47:09
  that have
• 47:10
  seen things
• 47:10
  and
• 47:11
  I don't know
• 47:11
  if you were
• 47:12
  had any
• 47:13
  crossover
• 47:13
  with the
• 47:14
  he was
• 47:14
  the one
• 47:14
  in my right
• 47:15
  class.
• 47:15
  I don't know
• 47:16
  if you'd
• 47:16
  call him.
• 47:16
  He's
• 47:16
  the one
• 47:17
  that
• 47:17
  ejected off
• 47:17
  the front
• 47:18
  end. Yeah.
• 47:18
  He jumped
• 47:19
  out with
• 47:20
  the guy
• 47:20
  who was
• 47:20
  a former
• 47:21
  blue Angel.
• 47:21
  Yes. He.
• 47:22
  And then
• 47:22
  he went
• 47:23
  back to
• 47:23
  the blues
• 47:23
  after that.
• 47:24
  I think
• 47:24
  it was.
• 47:24
  Right off
• 47:25
  the water,
• 47:25
  I think.
• 47:26
  Yeah.
• 47:26
  Punched
• 47:27
  out.
• 47:27
  I think
• 47:27
  it was a
• 47:27
  name, I
• 47:28
  must say.
• 47:29
  I think
• 47:29
  it was.
• 47:31
  There
• 47:31
  he is.
• 47:31
  Yeah.
• 47:32
  I forget
• 47:32
  his call
• 47:32
  sign
• 47:33
  though.
• 47:33
  What was it?
• 47:34
  But his
• 47:34
  seat.
• 47:34
  He's a
• 47:35
  public.
• 47:35
  It's fine
• 47:36
  because.
• 47:36
  He skipped
• 47:37
  off
• 47:37
  the water
• 47:37
  from what
• 47:38
  I hear.
• 47:38
  Because
• 47:38
  when.
• 47:38
  They were
• 47:39
  very well.
• 47:39
  Yeah,
• 47:39
  they got
• 47:40
  ferry
• 47:40
  lucky.
• 47:40
  That was a
• 47:41
  week after.
• 47:41
  I left.
• 47:42
  Yeah.
• 47:42
  Did
• 47:42
  they suck
• 47:43
  like the
• 47:43
  rubber from
• 47:44
  the cat?
• 47:44
  It was.
• 47:45
  Yeah,
• 47:45
  it was fun.
• 47:46
  Just in
• 47:46
  from some
• 47:47
  component
• 47:47
  of the cat.
• 47:48
  Like one of
• 47:48
  the covered
• 47:49
  or
• 47:49
  something.
• 47:49
  Off the
• 47:49
  left
• 47:50
  engine.
• 47:50
  And then
• 47:50
  they turned
• 47:51
  left and
• 47:52
  had
• 47:52
  adverse.
• 47:53
  Your
• 47:53
  departure.
• 47:53
  Yeah.
• 47:54
  Yeah,
• 47:54
  that was
• 47:54
  rough
• 47:55
  stuff.
• 47:56
  Had his
• 47:56
  own
• 47:56
  experience
• 47:57
  at test
• 47:58
  pilot
• 47:58
  school.
• 47:58
  Really?
• 47:59
  Within
• 48:00
  about 50ft
• 48:00
  of his
• 48:00
  cockpit
• 48:01
  coming
• 48:01
  up to
• 48:01
  his
• 48:02
  cockpit,
• 48:02
  hanging out
• 48:02
  about 50ft
• 48:03
  and
• 48:04
  basically
• 48:05
  locking in
• 48:05
  that
• 48:05
  position
• 48:06
  as he were.
• 48:07
  That's
• 48:07
  wild.
• 48:08
  Shooting
• 48:08
  off
• 48:08
  the open
• 48:09
  will
• 48:09
  get him on
• 48:09
  here soon.
• 48:10
  Yeah.
• 48:10
  When he
• 48:10
  comes
• 48:10
  down, let's
• 48:11
  go get
• 48:11
  beers.
• 48:12
  Yes, I
• 48:12
  look
• 48:13
  forward to
• 48:13
  that.
• 48:13
  It's
• 48:13
  not a lot.
• 48:14
  There's
• 48:14
  only two of
• 48:14
  us down
• 48:15
  here.
• 48:15
  I know it's
• 48:15
  a great place
• 48:16
  to be
• 48:16
  if
• 48:16
  you're at
• 48:17
  a team
• 48:17
  pilot
• 48:17
  or really
• 48:18
  anyone.
• 48:18
  So I.
• 48:19
  I'm loving
• 48:19
  Austin.
• 48:21
  Not this
• 48:21
  Austin by
• 48:22
  the town.
• 48:22
  You're
• 48:22
  pretty cool
• 48:23
  to do this.
• 48:23
  Thanks, I.
• 48:24
  Appreciate
• 48:24
  it.
• 48:24
  I can't
• 48:25
  imagine
• 48:25
  the pain.
• 48:25
  It must
• 48:26
  be to
• 48:26
  have
• 48:27
  the name
• 48:27
  Austin
• 48:27
  in this town.
• 48:28
  But
• 48:28
  we don't
• 48:28
  have to
• 48:29
  go into
• 48:29
  every
• 48:29
  datasource.
• 48:30
  What awful.
• 48:32
  Wait, what
• 48:33
  do you
• 48:33
  think?
• 48:34
  You know,
• 48:34
  kind of
• 48:34
  wrap it up
• 48:35
  here.
• 48:35
  You know,
• 48:36
  there's
• 48:37
  a lot
• 48:37
  going on.
• 48:38
  You know,
• 48:38
  we've just
• 48:38
  had these.
• 48:39
  This
• 48:39
  Department
• 48:40
  of War
• 48:40
  release of
• 48:40
  information.
• 48:41
  Some people
• 48:42
  are saying.
• 48:43
  Many people
• 48:43
  are saying
• 48:44
  it's the
• 48:44
  beginning
• 48:45
  of perhaps
• 48:45
  a
• 48:45
  disclosure
• 48:46
  process.
• 48:46
  And that's
• 48:47
  what I
• 48:47
  hear as
• 48:48
  well, that,
• 48:48
  you know,
• 48:48
  we're
• 48:49
  expecting
• 48:49
  different
• 48:49
  charges
• 48:50
  of
• 48:50
  information.
• 48:51
  Perhaps if
• 48:52
  what is
• 48:53
  said
• 48:53
  is true,
• 48:54
  that they
• 48:55
  might get
• 48:55
  increasingly
• 48:56
  compelling.
• 48:57
  And that's
• 48:57
  based off
• 48:58
  of
• 48:58
  commentary
• 48:59
  from
• 48:59
  Congress,
• 49:00
  people
• 49:00
  who
• 49:00
  apparently
• 49:01
  have seen
• 49:01
  the larger
• 49:02
  trove
• 49:02
  and are
• 49:03
  even making
• 49:04
  pretty
• 49:04
  aggressive
• 49:05
  statements
• 49:05
  about
• 49:06
  invoking
• 49:06
  certain
• 49:06
  privileges
• 49:07
  they have
• 49:07
  as
• 49:07
  congresspeople
• 49:08
  in order
• 49:08
  to release
• 49:09
  that
• 49:09
  information.
• 49:10
  If
• 49:10
  the president
• 49:10
  doesn't,
• 49:11
  it sounds
• 49:12
  like,
• 49:12
  you know,
• 49:12
  it
• 49:12
  feels like
• 49:13
  things
• 49:13
  are
• 49:14
  earnestly
• 49:14
  heating up
• 49:15
  right now.
• 49:15
  Asa,
• 49:16
  I think,
• 49:16
  is living
• 49:17
  already in
• 49:17
  that future
• 49:18
  in a lot
• 49:18
  of ways.
• 49:19
  Americans
• 49:19
  say Faro
• 49:20
  space
• 49:20
  because,
• 49:21
  you know,
• 49:22
  it's
• 49:22
  not about
• 49:23
  ultimately
• 49:24
  joining
• 49:24
  the
• 49:24
  conversation
• 49:25
  to debate
• 49:25
  any one
• 49:26
  photo.
• 49:26
  But,
• 49:27
  you know,
• 49:27
  how do we
• 49:27
  deal
• 49:27
  with the
• 49:28
  the operational
• 49:29
  implications
• 49:31
  of this
• 49:31
  reality
• 49:32
  that
• 49:32
  we've been
• 49:32
  talking
• 49:33
  about?
• 49:33
  How do we
• 49:34
  properly
• 49:34
  educate
• 49:35
  and inform
• 49:36
  pilots of
• 49:36
  these
• 49:36
  events
• 49:37
  in a
• 49:37
  timely manner,
• 49:38
  so that
• 49:38
  they can
• 49:38
  incorporate
• 49:39
  that
• 49:39
  into their
• 49:40
  situational
• 49:40
  awareness?
• 49:41
  How do we
• 49:41
  highlight
• 49:43
  hot areas
• 49:44
  or areas
• 49:45
  where
• 49:45
  there's
• 49:46
  more
• 49:46
  consistent
• 49:47
  sightings,
• 49:48
  so that
• 49:48
  we can
• 49:48
  ensure
• 49:49
  the proper
• 49:49
  communications
• 49:50
  are in
• 49:50
  place?
• 49:50
  What are the
• 49:51
  proper
• 49:51
  communications?
• 49:52
  What are the procedures
• 49:53
  and
• 49:53
  how are
• 49:54
  they
• 49:54
  educated
• 49:54
  across
• 49:55
  pilots?
• 49:55
  You know,
• 49:56
  that's
• 49:56
  that's
• 49:56
  a lot of
• 49:56
  the work
• 49:57
  we're doing.
• 49:57
  But I'm
• 49:57
  curious,
• 49:58
  you know,
• 49:58
  just
• 49:59
  broadly
• 49:59
  speaking,
• 50:00
  I mean,
• 50:00
  where
• 50:00
  do you think
• 50:01
  this all
• 50:01
  goes?
• 50:02
  You know,
• 50:02
  from from
• 50:03
  where
• 50:03
  we are
• 50:03
  today?
• 50:04
  I think
• 50:04
  the biggest
• 50:05
  challenge
• 50:05
  with
• 50:07
  the
• 50:07
  disclosure
• 50:08
  is that
• 50:10
  humans
• 50:10
  are not
• 50:11
  very good
• 50:11
  at
• 50:13
  being out
• 50:13
  of control
• 50:14
  and having
• 50:15
  uncertainty.
• 50:16
  Right.
• 50:16
  If and then
• 50:17
  the
• 50:17
  American
• 50:18
  public,
• 50:18
  you know,
• 50:19
  we're used
• 50:20
  to this.
• 50:21
  I want it
• 50:21
  now.
• 50:22
  Give it to me
• 50:22
  now.
• 50:23
  You know,
• 50:23
  I voted for
• 50:24
  this
• 50:24
  person.
• 50:25
  They promise
• 50:25
  this and
• 50:26
  I want it
• 50:26
  right now.
• 50:27
  If they're
• 50:27
  not
• 50:27
  doing it
• 50:27
  right now,
• 50:28
  like I'm
• 50:28
  angry.
• 50:28
  And
• 50:29
  if you find out
• 50:29
  that
• 50:29
  there's,
• 50:30
  you know,
• 50:30
  if we
• 50:31
  reveal
• 50:31
  that
• 50:31
  there's
• 50:31
  extraterrestrial
• 50:32
  life and
• 50:33
  non-human
• 50:33
  intelligence,
• 50:34
  what are we going
• 50:35
  to do about it?
• 50:35
  What do you want
• 50:36
  me to do
• 50:36
  about it?
• 50:37
  Right.
• 50:37
  Like,
• 50:37
  these
• 50:37
  things
• 50:38
  are so much
• 50:38
  more
• 50:39
  advanced
• 50:39
  than us.
• 50:39
  Like,
• 50:40
  people are
• 50:40
  going
• 50:41
  to have
• 50:41
  to get
• 50:41
  comfortable
• 50:41
  with
• 50:41
  the fact
• 50:42
  that
• 50:42
  there's
• 50:42
  nothing
• 50:42
  we can do
• 50:43
  about it.
• 50:44
  And that's
• 50:44
  a scary
• 50:45
  thing,
• 50:45
  I think,
• 50:45
  for most
• 50:46
  people.
• 50:46
  Right.
• 50:46
  Seeding
• 50:47
  somebody?
• 50:47
  Yeah.
• 50:48
  Seeing
• 50:48
  control,
• 50:49
  especially
• 50:49
  when you
• 50:50
  demand
• 50:51
  certainty,
• 50:51
  when people
• 50:52
  demand
• 50:52
  certainty
• 50:53
  and kind
• 50:53
  of like
• 50:54
  an immature
• 50:54
  way. Right.
• 50:55
  Like modern
• 50:57
  life is
• 50:59
  generally
• 51:00
  giving
• 51:00
  people
• 51:01
  what they
• 51:01
  want,
• 51:01
  the comforts
• 51:02
  they want,
• 51:02
  the
• 51:02
  entertainment
• 51:03
  that they
• 51:03
  want.
• 51:04
  People
• 51:04
  are just
• 51:04
  becoming
• 51:05
  used
• 51:05
  to that.
• 51:05
  And
• 51:06
  they're not
• 51:06
  used to
• 51:07
  the fact
• 51:07
  that, like,
• 51:07
  there's
• 51:08
  a lot
• 51:08
  of things
• 51:08
  that are
• 51:08
  out of
• 51:09
  your control.
• 51:09
  I think
• 51:10
  when
• 51:11
  this is
• 51:11
  revealed,
• 51:12
  I mean,
• 51:12
  it's
• 51:12
  already
• 51:12
  I mean,
• 51:13
  we already know
• 51:13
  that
• 51:14
  these things
• 51:14
  exist.
• 51:15
  But I think
• 51:15
  when people
• 51:15
  know that
• 51:16
  there's
• 51:16
  someone
• 51:16
  else,
• 51:17
  something else
• 51:18
  that's
• 51:18
  driving
• 51:18
  them,
• 51:20
  that's
• 51:20
  going to be
• 51:21
  a
• 51:21
  tough pill
• 51:21
  to swallow,
• 51:22
  and they're
• 51:22
  going to
• 51:22
  make
• 51:22
  demands
• 51:23
  that most
• 51:23
  politicians
• 51:24
  can't meet.
• 51:24
  And I think
• 51:25
  that's a
• 51:25
  hard
• 51:25
  message
• 51:25
  to tell
• 51:26
  people,
• 51:26
  right.
• 51:26
  Like,
• 51:28
  what do you do
• 51:28
  if you're the president
• 51:30
  and
• 51:30
  you say,
• 51:31
  all right,
• 51:31
  there are
• 51:32
  we have
• 51:33
  recovered
• 51:33
  beings of,
• 51:35
  you know,
• 51:36
  extraterrestrial
• 51:36
  origin.
• 51:37
  There
• 51:38
  is life
• 51:38
  among us.
• 51:39
  We have communicated
• 51:40
  with some
• 51:40
  of these.
• 51:41
  Here's,
• 51:42
  you know,
• 51:42
  before we
• 51:43
  even talk
• 51:43
  about what
• 51:43
  the things
• 51:44
  that
• 51:44
  they've
• 51:44
  communicated,
• 51:45
  or at least
• 51:45
  the rumors,
• 51:46
  how do you
• 51:46
  deliver
• 51:46
  that
• 51:46
  message
• 51:47
  and expect
• 51:48
  people
• 51:48
  not to
• 51:48
  demand
• 51:49
  something
• 51:49
  that is
• 51:50
  completely
• 51:50
  unreasonable?
• 51:52
  And that's
• 51:52
  a party
• 51:53
  political
• 51:54
  agnostic,
• 51:55
  no matter
• 51:55
  who the,
• 51:56
  you know,
• 51:56
  the best
• 51:56
  person in
• 51:57
  the office,
• 51:57
  whoever
• 51:58
  you think
• 51:58
  the best
• 51:58
  president
• 51:59
  is,
• 51:59
  probably
• 52:00
  is going to
• 52:00
  fumble that
• 52:01
  or mess
• 52:01
  that up.
• 52:01
  It's not
• 52:02
  going to
• 52:02
  be perfect.
• 52:02
  Yeah,
• 52:03
  it's it's
• 52:03
  fundamentally
• 52:04
  probably
• 52:04
  the most
• 52:05
  consequential
• 52:07
  piece
• 52:07
  of
• 52:07
  information
• 52:08
  to the
• 52:09
  human
• 52:10
  experience
• 52:12
  as a
• 52:12
  species
• 52:13
  that
• 52:13
  for our
• 52:13
  entire
• 52:13
  existence,
• 52:14
  we
• 52:14
  have been
• 52:15
  the only
• 52:17
  thing in
• 52:18
  the
• 52:18
  universe.
• 52:19
  And
• 52:19
  then now
• 52:20
  we are
• 52:20
  confirmed
• 52:21
  that
• 52:21
  we are not.
• 52:21
  And not
• 52:22
  only are
• 52:22
  we not
• 52:22
  the only
• 52:23
  thing in
• 52:23
  the universe,
• 52:24
  we are not
• 52:25
  the top
• 52:25
  of the food
• 52:25
  pyramid.
• 52:26
  It's easy
• 52:27
  to say
• 52:27
  like, hey,
• 52:27
  we found
• 52:28
  life on
• 52:28
  other
• 52:28
  planet.
• 52:29
  It's like
• 52:29
  a bacteria.
• 52:30
  It's a
• 52:30
  little like
• 52:31
  it
• 52:31
  looks
• 52:31
  like a
• 52:32
  Chihuahua
• 52:33
  or.
• 52:33
  200,000
• 52:34
  light years
• 52:34
  away.
• 52:34
  It's
• 52:35
  100,000
• 52:35
  light
• 52:35
  years away.
• 52:36
  And it's
• 52:36
  a
• 52:36
  Chihuahua.
• 52:37
  Yeah.
• 52:37
  Okay, cool.
• 52:38
  Yeah.
• 52:38
  That's
• 52:38
  neat.
• 52:39
  That's
• 52:39
  safe.
• 52:39
  But it's
• 52:40
  like, no,
• 52:41
  they're
• 52:41
  actually
• 52:41
  in our oceans,
• 52:42
  or they're
• 52:42
  flying
• 52:42
  around
• 52:43
  their way
• 52:43
  smarter than us.
• 52:45
  And if you
• 52:46
  touch them,
• 52:46
  you'll die.
• 52:47
  That's
• 52:47
  a different
• 52:48
  that's a
• 52:48
  different
• 52:49
  realization.
• 52:50
  Yeah.
• 52:50
  It's a
• 52:50
  different
• 52:51
  type of
• 52:52
  Copernican
• 52:54
  realization
• 52:54
  I suppose.
• 52:55
  Right.
• 52:55
  Yeah.
• 52:56
  Like is
• 52:56
  the human
• 52:57
  psyche
• 52:57
  ready
• 52:57
  for that?
• 52:58
  Like,
• 52:58
  are you going
• 52:58
  to have
• 52:59
  these,
• 52:59
  you know,
• 52:59
  the people
• 53:00
  that commit
• 53:00
  suicide
• 53:00
  when the comets
• 53:01
  come, like
• 53:01
  there's
• 53:02
  every
• 53:03
  decade
• 53:03
  there's
• 53:04
  some sect,
• 53:05
  you know,
• 53:05
  there's
• 53:05
  some cult
• 53:06
  that goes
• 53:07
  and offs
• 53:07
  itself
• 53:07
  because of
• 53:08
  some comet
• 53:09
  or
• 53:09
  something.
• 53:09
  And
• 53:10
  you know
• 53:10
  what's
• 53:11
  going to be
• 53:11
  the
• 53:11
  reaction
• 53:12
  to people
• 53:12
  on the
• 53:12
  spiritual
• 53:13
  level, on a
• 53:15
  political
• 53:16
  level,
• 53:16
  on a social
• 53:17
  unrest
• 53:17
  level,
• 53:18
  or people
• 53:18
  are going
• 53:18
  to be like,
• 53:18
  well,
• 53:19
  fuck it,
• 53:19
  nothing
• 53:19
  matters.
• 53:19
  Let me
• 53:20
  just go
• 53:20
  riot or,
• 53:21
  you know.
• 53:22
  Well,
• 53:23
  you know,
• 53:23
  I think,
• 53:24
  I think
• 53:24
  the
• 53:24
  majority
• 53:24
  of us are
• 53:25
  too lazy
• 53:25
  because
• 53:26
  it's,
• 53:26
  you know,
• 53:27
  it's easy
• 53:27
  to riot
• 53:27
  when
• 53:28
  there's
• 53:28
  something
• 53:28
  to riot
• 53:28
  against.
• 53:29
  But
• 53:29
  this might
• 53:29
  be a little
• 53:30
  more harder
• 53:30
  for people
• 53:31
  to kind of
• 53:31
  grasp
• 53:32
  what to be
• 53:32
  angry
• 53:33
  about.
• 53:33
  I think
• 53:34
  there will
• 53:34
  be so many
• 53:35
  general
• 53:35
  anxiety,
• 53:36
  but
• 53:36
  it'll be
• 53:36
  interesting
• 53:37
  to see.
• 53:38
  But at
• 53:38
  the end
• 53:38
  of the day,
• 53:38
  people
• 53:39
  always like
• 53:39
  to say,
• 53:40
  you know,
• 53:40
  people are,
• 53:41
  you know,
• 53:41
  just going
• 53:42
  to go back
• 53:42
  to doing
• 53:42
  the things.
• 53:43
  But
• 53:43
  the food on
• 53:44
  the plate,
• 53:44
  you know,
• 53:45
  that's
• 53:45
  within,
• 53:45
  you know,
• 53:46
  their
• 53:46
  ability
• 53:46
  to grasp
• 53:47
  and truly
• 53:47
  understand
• 53:48
  it in
• 53:48
  action.
• 53:49
  But I think
• 53:50
  we're in
• 53:50
  a position
• 53:51
  where,
• 53:52
  you know,
• 53:52
  instead of
• 53:52
  the
• 53:53
  speculation
• 53:53
  for decades
• 53:54
  about
• 53:54
  whether,
• 53:55
  you know,
• 53:55
  what what
• 53:56
  that
• 53:56
  might be like.
• 53:57
  I think,
• 53:57
  you know,
• 53:58
  we'll just
• 53:58
  have to
• 53:58
  kind of
• 53:58
  sit tight
• 53:59
  for
• 53:59
  the next
• 54:00
  few months
• 54:00
  or a
• 54:01
  couple of years
• 54:01
  and see how
• 54:02
  things
• 54:02
  unfold.
• 54:03
  Yeah,
• 54:03
  I think
• 54:04
  the real
• 54:04
  revelation
• 54:04
  is when
• 54:06
  people
• 54:06
  start
• 54:06
  talking
• 54:07
  about,
• 54:08
  you know,
• 54:08
  oh, it's
• 54:09
  one thing
• 54:09
  to say, oh,
• 54:09
  we
• 54:09
  recovered
• 54:10
  a craft
• 54:11
  or body
• 54:12
  dead, dead
• 54:12
  aliens.
• 54:13
  Like,
• 54:13
  okay, cool.
• 54:14
  Well,
• 54:14
  what about,
• 54:15
  you know,
• 54:15
  you've
• 54:15
  heard
• 54:16
  the rumors
• 54:16
  of people
• 54:17
  who've
• 54:18
  actually
• 54:18
  talked to
• 54:18
  the aliens,
• 54:19
  like, well,
• 54:19
  are
• 54:19
  you going
• 54:20
  to.
• 54:20
  Are you
• 54:20
  going to
• 54:21
  tell me
• 54:21
  what
• 54:22
  you guys
• 54:22
  talked
• 54:22
  about?
• 54:22
  Like,
• 54:23
  what
• 54:23
  did you
• 54:23
  talk about?
• 54:24
  What's
• 54:24
  so important
• 54:25
  that
• 54:25
  you've hid
• 54:25
  from us?
• 54:26
  You know,
• 54:26
  as people
• 54:26
  have
• 54:27
  become more
• 54:27
  acclimated
• 54:28
  to into
• 54:30
  the fact
• 54:30
  that there
• 54:30
  are objects
• 54:31
  that are
• 54:32
  operating
• 54:32
  her spaces,
• 54:33
  you know,
• 54:34
  I'll
• 54:34
  leave it
• 54:34
  to perhaps
• 54:35
  people
• 54:35
  better
• 54:36
  qualified
• 54:36
  to really
• 54:37
  delve into
• 54:38
  what that
• 54:39
  really
• 54:39
  means,
• 54:40
  you know,
• 54:40
  from
• 54:40
  all these
• 54:41
  different
• 54:41
  angles,
• 54:42
  you know,
• 54:43
  philosophically
• 54:44
  and for
• 54:44
  religion
• 54:45
  and
• 54:45
  everything
• 54:46
  else,
• 54:46
  it will
• 54:46
  likely
• 54:47
  affect
• 54:47
  many
• 54:47
  things.
• 54:48
  But,
• 54:48
  you know,
• 54:49
  as a pilot,
• 54:50
  you know,
• 54:51
  what does
• 54:51
  this
• 54:51
  look like?
• 54:52
  What can we
• 54:52
  learn from
• 54:53
  these things?
• 54:53
  Where does
• 54:54
  this
• 54:54
  conversation
• 54:55
  go in
• 54:55
  that
• 54:55
  regard?
• 54:56
  As as
• 54:56
  more people
• 54:57
  become
• 54:57
  interested
• 54:58
  in
• 54:58
  understanding
• 54:59
  this,
• 54:59
  instead
• 54:59
  of it
• 54:59
  being
• 55:00
  a somewhat
• 55:00
  constrained
• 55:01
  effort
• 55:02
  with
• 55:02
  the fact
• 55:02
  that this
• 55:03
  has been
• 55:03
  such a
• 55:04
  stigmatized
• 55:05
  topic
• 55:06
  for so
• 55:06
  long.
• 55:07
  When
• 55:07
  this disclosure
• 55:08
  does
• 55:08
  come out,
• 55:09
  I think
• 55:09
  one of
• 55:10
  the
• 55:10
  opportunities
• 55:11
  we have as
• 55:12
  Americans
• 55:12
  is how
• 55:13
  do we
• 55:13
  take the
• 55:14
  leadership
• 55:14
  on
• 55:16
  all right,
• 55:16
  we know
• 55:16
  that these
• 55:17
  things are
• 55:17
  flying
• 55:17
  around.
• 55:18
  How
• 55:19
  do we work
• 55:19
  with other
• 55:20
  nations,
• 55:21
  even
• 55:21
  adversarial
• 55:22
  nations,
• 55:22
  to make
• 55:23
  sure that
• 55:24
  skies
• 55:24
  are safer,
• 55:25
  that
• 55:25
  we can see
• 55:25
  these
• 55:26
  things?
• 55:26
  You know,
• 55:26
  what
• 55:26
  have we
• 55:27
  recovered?
• 55:27
  Have we done
• 55:28
  test to
• 55:29
  see if
• 55:29
  there
• 55:30
  you know,
• 55:30
  how does
• 55:31
  radar
• 55:31
  reflect
• 55:32
  against them?
• 55:32
  How do we detect
• 55:33
  these things?
• 55:34
  How
• 55:34
  do we track them?
• 55:35
  If
• 55:35
  we do have
• 55:36
  a sighting,
• 55:37
  how can we
• 55:37
  put that
• 55:37
  into the
• 55:38
  aerospace system
• 55:40
  so that
• 55:40
  controllers
• 55:41
  can see
• 55:41
  that
• 55:41
  there's
• 55:41
  something
• 55:42
  in the air
• 55:43
  over here
• 55:43
  that is
• 55:44
  unidentified,
• 55:45
  even
• 55:45
  if it's
• 55:45
  not radar
• 55:46
  or
• 55:46
  reflective,
• 55:47
  how do we
• 55:48
  cooperate
• 55:49
  across
• 55:49
  agencies to
• 55:51
  make sure
• 55:51
  that,
• 55:52
  you know,
• 55:53
  people
• 55:53
  are aware
• 55:54
  that these
• 55:55
  things
• 55:55
  are out
• 55:55
  there?
• 55:56
  Yeah,
• 55:56
  we can't
• 55:56
  control them,
• 55:57
  but
• 55:57
  at least
• 55:57
  we know to
• 55:58
  avoid them.
• 55:59
  Then when
• 55:59
  we do that,
• 56:00
  we also get
• 56:00
  more
• 56:00
  information
• 56:01
  about
• 56:01
  perhaps
• 56:02
  where
• 56:02
  they're
• 56:02
  operating
• 56:03
  that can
• 56:04
  lead us
• 56:04
  to intent
• 56:05
  potentially,
• 56:06
  or
• 56:06
  capability
• 56:07
  understanding.
• 56:08
  Or least
• 56:08
  we know
• 56:08
  where to
• 56:09
  put more
• 56:09
  sensors.
• 56:09
  Right.
• 56:10
  If we know
• 56:10
  that
• 56:10
  there's
• 56:11
  a lot
• 56:11
  of
• 56:11
  sightings,
• 56:12
  let's
• 56:12
  say off
• 56:12
  the coast
• 56:12
  of
• 56:12
  Virginia,
• 56:13
  well, maybe
• 56:14
  we put
• 56:14
  some,
• 56:15
  you know,
• 56:16
  some Sam
• 56:17
  radar
• 56:17
  down there,
• 56:18
  some
• 56:18
  surface to
• 56:18
  air radar
• 56:19
  that's
• 56:19
  going to
• 56:20
  be looking
• 56:20
  in
• 56:21
  particular
• 56:21
  points of
• 56:21
  the sky
• 56:22
  where
• 56:22
  people keep
• 56:22
  seeing
• 56:23
  these.
• 56:23
  And let's
• 56:24
  start
• 56:24
  building
• 56:24
  a data
• 56:25
  set on
• 56:26
  where
• 56:26
  we're
• 56:26
  seeing
• 56:27
  this stuff.
• 56:27
  Like what
• 56:28
  can
• 56:28
  we learn
• 56:28
  from how to
• 56:29
  detect them
• 56:29
  to make
• 56:30
  this, to
• 56:31
  scale
• 56:31
  this out,
• 56:31
  not only
• 56:32
  within
• 56:33
  Conus but
• 56:34
  beyond
• 56:34
  our borders?
• 56:35
  How can we
• 56:35
  share this
• 56:35
  with,
• 56:36
  you know,
• 56:36
  Russia
• 56:37
  or China
• 56:37
  or like
• 56:38
  even
• 56:38
  adversaries
• 56:39
  to say
• 56:39
  like, hey,
• 56:39
  guys, like,
• 56:40
  I know
• 56:41
  we don't
• 56:41
  always
• 56:41
  get along
• 56:42
  the
• 56:43
  lives of
• 56:44
  yeah, yeah,
• 56:44
  the lives
• 56:45
  of your
• 56:45
  citizens
• 56:45
  matters
• 56:46
  to you,
• 56:47
  just like
• 56:47
  ours
• 56:47
  matters
• 56:48
  to us.
• 56:48
  And
• 56:49
  we want to
• 56:50
  share
• 56:50
  with you
• 56:51
  this
• 56:51
  information
• 56:52
  or like,
• 56:52
  these
• 56:52
  things are
• 56:53
  operating
• 56:53
  from here.
• 56:53
  And I think
• 56:54
  that,
• 56:54
  you know,
• 56:54
  that
• 56:55
  could be
• 56:55
  a good
• 56:55
  leadership
• 56:56
  position
• 56:56
  from this
• 56:57
  country
• 56:57
  to take.
• 56:58
  It'd
• 56:58
  be nice
• 56:58
  if that happens
• 56:59
  to say,
• 57:00
  like,
• 57:00
  hey, let's
• 57:01
  figure out
• 57:01
  a way to
• 57:04
  make
• 57:04
  people
• 57:04
  feel
• 57:05
  safe
• 57:05
  in this
• 57:06
  incredibly
• 57:07
  like
• 57:08
  unnerving,
• 57:09
  unsettling
• 57:11
  realization
• 57:12
  that
• 57:12
  there's
• 57:12
  other
• 57:13
  things
• 57:14
  flying
• 57:14
  around
• 57:14
  in our
• 57:14
  airspace.
• 57:15
  There's
• 57:15
  other things
• 57:16
  that are
• 57:16
  flying over
• 57:17
  our cities,
• 57:17
  that are
• 57:17
  flying over
• 57:18
  our waters,
• 57:19
  flying near
• 57:20
  our
• 57:20
  aircraft.
• 57:20
  How do we
• 57:21
  prevent
• 57:21
  someone
• 57:22
  from
• 57:22
  shooting
• 57:22
  one of
• 57:22
  these
• 57:22
  things
• 57:23
  and causing
• 57:23
  some
• 57:24
  sort of
• 57:25
  conflict?
• 57:26
  Well,
• 57:27
  do you think
• 57:27
  that your
• 57:28
  balloon
• 57:28
  company
• 57:29
  could play
• 57:29
  a role?
• 57:29
  I mean,
• 57:30
  I think
• 57:30
  it's a
• 57:31
  pretty
• 57:31
  unexplored
• 57:31
  area to
• 57:32
  have
• 57:32
  sensors
• 57:33
  at the
• 57:33
  altitudes
• 57:33
  that those
• 57:34
  balloons
• 57:34
  operate.
• 57:35
  Perhaps
• 57:35
  looking
• 57:35
  down,
• 57:37
  perhaps
• 57:38
  tether
• 57:38
  them up
• 57:38
  over
• 57:39
  hotspots
• 57:39
  and be able
• 57:40
  to modern
• 57:41
  area for
• 57:41
  several
• 57:42
  months,
• 57:42
  perhaps.
• 57:43
  Yeah.
• 57:43
  I mean,
• 57:43
  tethering
• 57:44
  a balloon
• 57:44
  at 80,000ft
• 57:46
  is that's
• 57:47
  one of our
• 57:47
  long term
• 57:48
  goals.
• 57:50
  You know,
• 57:50
  when
• 57:50
  you run
• 57:50
  fiber
• 57:50
  optic up
• 57:51
  that
• 57:51
  tether,
• 57:52
  you can put
• 57:52
  some
• 57:52
  you can get
• 57:53
  some
• 57:53
  great data
• 57:54
  transfer
• 57:54
  down
• 57:54
  from there.
• 57:55
  And
• 57:55
  when you're
• 57:55
  looking
• 57:55
  at a system
• 57:56
  that's up
• 57:56
  at
• 57:56
  80,000ft,
• 57:57
  it's at
• 57:58
  less
• 57:58
  than 10%
• 57:59
  atmospheric density.
• 58:00
  So
• 58:00
  the range of
• 58:01
  those
• 58:01
  radars
• 58:02
  is going to
• 58:02
  be much
• 58:03
  longer
• 58:04
  because
• 58:04
  you're not
• 58:04
  getting
• 58:05
  the signal
• 58:05
  attenuation
• 58:06
  through the
• 58:06
  atmosphere,
• 58:06
  you're
• 58:06
  going to
• 58:07
  get much
• 58:07
  higher
• 58:07
  resolution.
• 58:09
  You're
• 58:09
  hopefully
• 58:09
  going
• 58:09
  to be
• 58:10
  detecting
• 58:10
  some of
• 58:10
  these
• 58:10
  things
• 58:11
  that are
• 58:11
  transiting
• 58:11
  the atmosphere
• 58:13
  early
• 58:13
  before they
• 58:13
  get down
• 58:14
  low.
• 58:14
  And maybe
• 58:14
  you can
• 58:15
  share
• 58:15
  that
• 58:15
  information
• 58:16
  with radar
• 58:17
  systems,
• 58:18
  other
• 58:19
  detection
• 58:19
  equipment
• 58:20
  that's down
• 58:20
  at the
• 58:20
  terrestrial
• 58:21
  level
• 58:22
  to kind of
• 58:23
  have a nice
• 58:23
  handoff
• 58:24
  between
• 58:24
  these scenes.
• 58:25
  But I think
• 58:26
  the most
• 58:26
  important
• 58:27
  thing is
• 58:27
  how do
• 58:27
  we get more
• 58:27
  data
• 58:28
  on them?
• 58:28
  How do we figure
• 58:29
  out how
• 58:29
  to detect
• 58:29
  these
• 58:30
  things?
• 58:30
  You know,
• 58:31
  you know,
• 58:31
  and there's
• 58:31
  probably
• 58:32
  multiple
• 58:32
  different
• 58:33
  types.
• 58:33
  Right.
• 58:33
  So
• 58:34
  you know,
• 58:35
  just
• 58:35
  because you
• 58:35
  can detect
• 58:36
  one doesn't
• 58:36
  mean you
• 58:37
  can't.
• 58:37
  You know,
• 58:37
  you can
• 58:38
  detect
• 58:38
  all of the
• 58:38
  different
• 58:39
  types
• 58:39
  that we've
• 58:40
  seen.
• 58:40
  You know,
• 58:40
  people talk
• 58:40
  about the
• 58:41
  Tic-Tac or,
• 58:42
  you know,
• 58:43
  flying
• 58:43
  saucers,
• 58:44
  whatever
• 58:44
  the shape is
• 58:45
  like,
• 58:45
  how do we find them?
• 58:46
  And they're
• 58:46
  gonna have
• 58:47
  different
• 58:47
  signal
• 58:48
  signal
• 58:48
  profiles
• 58:48
  for sure.
• 58:49
  What's
• 58:49
  what's the
• 58:50
  name of the
• 58:50
  company
• 58:50
  again?
• 58:51
  Is there
• 58:51
  a place
• 58:51
  people
• 58:51
  can check.
• 58:52
  It out?
• 58:53
  Is the name
• 58:53
  Carradine
• 58:54
  Dot
• 58:54
  systems?
• 58:54
  We
• 58:54
  don't have
• 58:55
  a very
• 58:55
  good
• 58:55
  website.
• 58:56
  No.
• 58:56
  Did
• 58:56
  very well
• 58:57
  because
• 58:57
  you're
• 58:58
  too busy
• 58:58
  doing
• 58:58
  the actual
• 58:58
  engineering
• 58:59
  building,
• 59:00
  I get.
• 59:00
  It, doing
• 59:00
  the
• 59:01
  building
• 59:01
  stuff.
• 59:01
  Awesome.
• 59:02
  Well,
• 59:02
  awesome.
• 59:02
  Thanks for
• 59:03
  joining us
• 59:03
  today.
• 59:04
  This was
• 59:04
  fascinating.
• 59:05
  You know,
• 59:06
  I'm not
• 59:06
  sure
• 59:06
  exactly
• 59:07
  when this
• 59:07
  is going to
• 59:08
  air, but,
• 59:08
  you know,
• 59:08
  we've
• 59:09
  uncovered
• 59:09
  some
• 59:09
  interesting
• 59:10
  information
• 59:11
  about
• 59:12
  the time
• 59:13
  frame
• 59:13
  around
• 59:13
  the Chinese
• 59:14
  by balloons
• 59:14
  and other
• 59:15
  objects
• 59:15
  that were
• 59:16
  operating
• 59:16
  in
• 59:17
  exhibiting
• 59:17
  some pretty
• 59:18
  interesting
• 59:18
  performance
• 59:19
  characteristics.
• 59:19
  So we'll
• 59:20
  have to get
• 59:20
  you tuned
• 59:21
  into that
• 59:21
  one so
• 59:22
  you can
• 59:22
  give your
• 59:22
  opinion
• 59:23
  on it.
• 59:23
  Thank you
• 59:24
  for
• 59:24
  watching
• 59:25
  the Safe
• 59:25
  Airspace
• 59:25
  podcast.
• 59:27
  We'll be
• 59:27
  having
• 59:27
  Orson
• 59:28
  on soon
• 59:28
  for an AMA.
• 59:29
  So if
• 59:29
  you're a
• 59:29
  member,
• 59:30
  please
• 59:30
  keep a
• 59:31
  lookout
• 59:31
  for our
• 59:32
  messaging
• 59:32
  on that
• 59:33
  and we can
• 59:33
  get them
• 59:34
  into
• 59:34
  action.
• 59:34
  Some questions
• 59:35
  about
• 59:35
  your experience
• 59:36
  or really
• 59:37
  any of
• 59:37
  your works.
• 59:38
  I'm sure
• 59:38
  there's
• 59:38
  going to be
• 59:39
  a lot
• 59:39
  from that.
• 59:40
  Again,
• 59:40
  please
• 59:40
  like and
• 59:41
  subscribe
• 59:41
  down below.
• 59:42
  Leave
• 59:42
  your
• 59:42
  comments.
• 59:43
  That really
• 59:43
  helps
• 59:43
  us out
• 59:44
  and
• 59:44
  helps us
• 59:44
  grow,
• 59:44
  especially
• 59:45
  at this
• 59:45
  early time.
• 59:46
  Thanks.