Latest / Startup Dad / #1 Parenting Tip for Career Focused Moms and Dads | Parents of 2
Transcript
- [00:00:00] Neil Vidyarthi: the first period of having a child is like, you're becoming a parent for the first time, and it's full of, of changes. from every parent I've talked to, You're gonna undergo a lot of changes and you're gonna, your perspective on life, your perspective on time. I always talk about fundamentally changes. [00:00:19] Adam Fishman: Welcome to Startup Dad, the podcast where we dive deep into the lives of dads who are also leaders in the world of startups and business. I'm your host, Adam Fishman. [00:00:32] Adam Fishman: My guests today are husband and wife, founding team Neil Hy and Lauren Dugan. He's a serial founder and startup marketer for companies like Todoist Polygon and Avail. [00:00:44] Adam Fishman: She's a content and social media expert who has also founded numerous companies together. They're part of the founding team of Feel Good Games, which built an AI storytelling platform for kids called Little Magic Stories. They're also mom and dad to two of their own kids. [00:01:00] Adam Fishman: We talked about finding work that helps your kids and their generation. [00:01:04] Adam Fishman: Starting companies with friends and family, how their oldest son helped motivate them to launch their latest endeavor and why kids have made them more successful and capable. Founders. My favorite part of our conversation was their advice to other founders who are new or soon to be parents and are lightning round, which is not to be missed. [00:01:23] Adam Fishman: If you like what you hear, please subscribe on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or your favorite podcast player, so you never miss a weekly episode. Welcome, Neil and Lauren to startup dad, husband and wife, dream team, [00:01:39] Adam Fishman: and co-founders of a company. I'm excited to have [00:01:43] Adam Fishman: the two of you here today. Thanks for agreeing to join me on this, uh, festival of Marriage and Parenting. [00:01:50] Neil Vidyarthi: It's a festival. Awesome. I didn't know what I was signing up for. It is a festival, isn't it? Yeah. Every day is an adventure. We just got off an adventure right now, figuring out what to do with our kid and how to drop 'em off, and then balancing that with cap tables, so it's, it's an adventure. Yeah. [00:02:06] Adam Fishman: Oh man. Alright, well, you two, are the co-founders of a company called Feel Good Games. Uh, you're also married as I implied, in the start of this, and you have two kids. [00:02:17] Adam Fishman: and I also noticed I was doing some sleuthing. [00:02:21] Adam Fishman: Some might call it stalking, I call it sleuthing. that this is not the first company that the two of you have worked on together, and that there may also be other family and members, uh, involved in this, rigamarole. [00:02:36] Adam Fishman: so let's start there. [00:02:37] Adam Fishman: would I be correct to say that you both seem to have a preference for working with friends and family? [00:02:43] Lauren Dugan: it's a preference and a [00:02:46] Lauren Dugan: and a pattern. [00:02:48] Lauren Dugan: yeah, absolutely. [00:02:51] Neil Vidyarthi: I have a whole thesis around it if you wanna hear it. [00:02:54] Adam Fishman: I would love to hear, uh, that, thesis, 'cause Neil, you, your brother is involved in the company. Lauren, I even saw maybe your sister [00:03:02] Lauren Dugan: Yep. She's been helping [00:03:03] Adam Fishman: Cool. So it's a whole family affair. Have the kids gotten involved yet? [00:03:06] Neil Vidyarthi: yeah. Yeah. [00:03:07] Lauren Dugan: they're beta testers. They're in front of the camera too. Sometimes. We [00:03:11] Adam Fishman: Yes. [00:03:12] Lauren Dugan: clips of, um, our son as the CEO, which we can get into [00:03:16] Adam Fishman: Yes. [00:03:18] Neil Vidyarthi: he's telling me what to do and like we, we got this clips of him, he will take credit for the entire company, feel good games, like non ironically, like, I was like, we did it together, right? He's like, no, I had the idea and I told you, and then you started the company because of me. [00:03:31] Adam Fishman: Awesome. Well, tell me about your whole thesis. Very, very curious about this. [00:03:35] Neil Vidyarthi: wh [00:03:37] Neil Vidyarthi: en we started the company, I had some time where I was trying to figure out exactly what I'm gonna do with this next phase of my career, and I. ranked all the things that I valued, I was like, okay, what's 1, 2, 3? And every morning I would wake up five in the morning and change that order and trust was like super high on that list. And you know, it was weird, but it. [00:03:53] Neil Vidyarthi: was a really foundational concept. And essentially, you know, to make a long story short, the thesis was if you have a highly trusted group of people in a difficult endeavor, there. You're, you're gonna succeed more. And who do I trust more than friends and family? And then you go online, you start to research it, and everyone's like, don't do it. [00:04:10] Neil Vidyarthi: Don't do it. Don't do it. Don't do it. But when I examined it, there's a lot of people that have succeeded and it's a really careful trade off. If you have the maturity to sit down and say, we're gonna put the personal stuff to the side right now and, and talk about, you know, this role. For instance, I'm the CEO, right? [00:04:26] Neil Vidyarthi: CEO to, you know, head of engineering, let's say, and we're gonna have this discussion. That's like a critical point. If that discussion can happen, then the, I find that my thesis was that the goods will far outweigh the bads. When you look left and right in your company and you're like, you know, I care about this person. [00:04:40] Neil Vidyarthi: I wanna win for them. I'm gonna get through this day. and so far that's been like, more than true. I. [00:04:46] Adam Fishman: Yeah, and I've had a couple of other folks on this show, Robert Wolf, who's founded three companies with his brother, and then of course I haven't had them on, but the Collison brothers who co-founded Stripe, like they're. Fairly well-known family. But you're right that if you go and you do research on this, like everyone is like, don't do it, don't start a company with friends, don't start a company with family. [00:05:09] Adam Fishman: Like separate those two things, uh, out. [00:05:14] Adam Fishman: So I, I am curious, considering that two of you're married, is it possible to separate this stuff out? Like do or do you sit around the dinner table with the kids and you're talking about work and you're think like, is this a 24 7, like work, we're thinking about work all the time and talking about it all the time. [00:05:28] Adam Fishman: Situation. I. [00:05:29] Lauren Dugan: I'd call it blended. I mean, I think, you know, we have a life and a business and kids together. And so it all kind of, you know, bleeds into each other. and we definitely have carved out hours for work and carved out hours for family. but of course there's overlap. Like, you know, today, our childcare fell through and so we had to enlist the grandparents, for right now. [00:05:56] Lauren Dugan: So they're with, with the youngest right now. Um, and that's just how it goes, you know? So I. [00:06:01] Lauren Dugan: think we, we do, we have those, um, around the dinner conversations about work, and then we also have the, around the dinner conversations about how was school with our eldest and, you know, how was playing with the indoor kinetic sand with our youngest too. [00:06:17] Lauren Dugan: So, you know, it all, it all comes together. that's how it is. I think, you know, with a, a family and a business. [00:06:24] Adam Fishman: Neil, what would you say are some of the trade-offs? Like you could have, you two could have gone on separate paths, obviously stayed married, but like not built a company together or several companies together. [00:06:35] Adam Fishman: you could have done this with somebody else, maybe just you and your brother, or, [00:06:38] Adam Fishman: you know, something like that. [00:06:39] Adam Fishman: [00:06:39] Adam Fishman: what are the trade-offs or things that you've realized maybe, [00:06:43] Adam Fishman: you know, not like downsides, but, you kind of, you know, changing or evaluating differently when you're starting a company with a [00:06:50] Adam Fishman: significant other and family? [00:06:52] Neil Vidyarthi: I'm an engineer, so trade offs is like, the first thing they teach you, right? Everything has a trade off [00:06:56] Neil Vidyarthi: So one of the things that's been so amazing, I'll get to the trade offs in a second, is the bandwidth, the high bandwidth. So there's a shorthand between all of us, and there's so much emotional intuition that's necessary to run, like especially a high speed organization where you're gonna be stepping on each other's toes a lot. so that, that was a positive. The negative is that we know everybody's. Hangups. the other founder is a friend. well, a friend, childhood friend. I bet when we were, I was five, right? Like we're lifelong friends and so all of us know each other super well. And so we know when there's a tendency, this is where it really blurs. [00:07:37] Neil Vidyarthi: 'cause I'm like, if there's a tendency to do things a certain way and then we're seeing it in work. Am I criticizing the work or am I criticizing the person? 'cause we've had this discussion so many times over and over and over, and of course back to me as well. and so it takes a lot of maturity in those moments to just be like, we're committed to the, the mission, which is What I just keep reminding. [00:07:57] Neil Vidyarthi: I've become a, a parrot about this stuff. [00:07:59] Adam Fishman: Neil, you work with your brother Lauren, your sister is involved. Which one of those dynamics is more challenging? The brother, brother dynamic or the sister sister dynamic? [00:08:10] Neil Vidyarthi: Brother. Brother is, we used to fight, right? Like all day, [00:08:14] Adam Fishman: Totally. [00:08:15] Neil Vidyarthi: we'll like hash it out and play a game of street fighter and like, like we used to when we were kids, and like, that's, that's gonna be the end of it. So he's been like highly critical of things that he, he really shouldn't have. [00:08:26] Neil Vidyarthi: And I'm gonna use this platform today to be like, Jay, you're totally wrong. About to the ux. [00:08:31] Adam Fishman: What about Lauren? What about the sister? Sister dynamic? [00:08:36] Lauren Dugan: I think it kind of goes back to what Neil was alluding to about like emotional shorthand and understanding each other's. I mean, I've known her her entire life. She's known me almost my entire life. So we've seen, I've seen her grow as a person and I can recognize that, but I also have like a mental image of who she was when, you know, we were arguing over who got to use the bathroom first to get ready for school. [00:09:01] Lauren Dugan: it's deeper, it's, we have the longer relationship. I would say it. makes it easier overall for me and, and her to communicate about things. But there are certain maybe topics that are a little bit more emotionally charged, that might make it a little tougher. [00:09:18] Lauren Dugan: But, overall it's a pleasure really. And I mean, I've also known Jay and, and Ken, the other co-founders too for, years and years and years. And I think that it, it helps, [00:09:28] Adam Fishman: Cool. A [00:09:28] Adam Fishman: lright, so I want to go all the way back and ask the two of you about where you grew up and what you were both like as kids. [00:09:36] Neil Vidyarthi: I guess that's where my mind goes right away is that like I was obsessed with video games and that's why I'm building a, a games company now for Good. When I was in grade two, I gave a speech to the class saying why video games are good for you. And like my dad would always make fun of this and like be like, that's what you chose. [00:09:51] Neil Vidyarthi: But he actually helped me do. [00:09:53] Neil Vidyarthi: that because I was so obsessed with it. And now I'm actually making a games company that tries to make games good for them. I feel like it come full circle and that really ties [00:10:01] Neil Vidyarthi: into when I met Lauren, I. Because she was playing Pokemon in an emulator the day I met her. And I was like, anyone that does this. that was the cherry on top. [00:10:09] Lauren Dugan: for the record, I owned the cartridge. I was playing on an emulator, but legally for. [00:10:16] Adam Fishman: Right. We gotta be careful for that very significant government audit of the Startup Dad podcast. That inevitably happens with every episode. So, [00:10:26] Neil Vidyarthi: Nintendo come after it. [00:10:27] Adam Fishman: yes, the Nintendo audit. Well that, so it was love at first Pokemon, for the two of you. Legal Pokemon came on, by the way. okay, cool. and now I wanna talk about your kids. [00:10:38] Adam Fishman: So tell me about them. You've got two. [00:10:41] Lauren Dugan: Yes, we have two. [00:10:43] Lauren Dugan: our youngest just turned three a couple of days ago, so he's newly three newly, uh, learning the power of no. [00:10:52] Lauren Dugan: it's a fun challenge. Um, and then our eldest is almost eight, there's about five years between them. and yeah, I mean, it's been a joy. They're, boys. [00:11:03] Lauren Dugan: They're really high energy, uh, very creative and fun and, I think, you know, overall. Becoming a parent, you learn to see things through your children's eyes. And that was, again. that's a big, [00:11:16] Lauren Dugan: reason for, for why we do what we do with feel good games, is seeing the world through our kids' eyes. You know, it makes the world a lot more fun. [00:11:24] Lauren Dugan: And so we thought, why not bring more fun [00:11:26] Lauren Dugan: into the world? [00:11:28] Neil Vidyarthi: is, uh, is cerebral and plays a piano, and Leo's like a total like power puncher, And all he wants to do is kick and punch like I was and I, I. Find that like they, they start to take after us in certain ways. and it's amazing to see Ashwin, for instance, I sit at piano class and I have no idea what he's doing 'cause I never took it. [00:11:46] Neil Vidyarthi: And to see him go beyond what I can even fathom, is so exciting. For some deep reason. And I think so many dads feel that and, then it looks like Leo's gonna go into my lane. Like he want, he's throwing the ball into the basketball net from far away by his own volition. I think that's really interesting. [00:12:03] Neil Vidyarthi: Kids like really what they really wanna do, and it's more gardening than, than like, building, I may have had that that impression as an engineer. [00:12:13] Lauren Dugan: Okay. [00:12:14] Adam Fishman: N [00:12:14] Adam Fishman: eil, you were talking about the role of parent as gardener, [00:12:19] Adam Fishman: and I've heard this a couple of times on the pod before. [00:12:23] Adam Fishman: Uh, tell me about [00:12:24] Adam Fishman: dad and mom as the gardener versus what else? what would the alternative be? [00:12:31] Neil Vidyarthi: I probably felt as an engineer that you're gonna build your kid, you know, you're gonna put some structure in, and then they're going to Climb that structure or become that structure and you know, just like, how a plant chases the sunlight, you're kind of giving it the water and the foundation to grow when I see them chase their sunlight essentially. [00:12:53] Neil Vidyarthi: pretty magical. It, like, I feel like it's nature's method of like, enlightening us a little bit to like life. That's, that's how powerful it is to me when I watch. Leo, throw the basketball in the net. I'm having these moments that, like these currents underneath that where I'm, and I was never gonna be a gardener. I have no idea. I have no green thumb. [00:13:11] Neil Vidyarthi: Lauren, I'm gonna call you out as also having started gardens that died. [00:13:16] Neil Vidyarthi: [00:13:16] Lauren Dugan: my sad shame. [00:13:17] Adam Fishman: Me too. [00:13:22] Neil Vidyarthi: we were gardeners and mom is Lauren. Uh, mom, as I call her, is the best gardener in the world. And, and I, I, I [00:13:29] Neil Vidyarthi: see the way she helps them grow and gives them the [00:13:31] Neil Vidyarthi: space where they want, they they can grow into. And it's just totally changed my opinion on what we can control and what we can't in life. [00:13:38] Adam Fishman: Speaking of something that you can control though, [00:13:41] Adam Fishman: uh, I wanted to ask you about [00:13:44] Adam Fishman: deciding to start a company together, and how you talk to your kids about it, or if you talk to them about it, they were probably like, if I'm doing the math correctly, maybe six and two or a little bit younger even than that, when you started hard to have a conversation with a 2-year-old about anything other than like kinetic sand. [00:14:07] Adam Fishman: what was that conversation like between the two of you getting into this again and then with maybe your oldest or, or however you talk to him about it? [00:14:17] Lauren Dugan: like Neil said before, our eldest Ash, he takes claim for starting this company. So he's, he's been there since the beginning. you know, we started it, for a variety of reasons, but you know, one of which was early morning moments with him. He was an early riser from probably the age of four to. Six, like a 5:00 AM you know, still dark outside for many, many more hours, kind of early riser. And, Neil and I naturally are not that early riser, so he would come into our bed and you know, our brains are not fully on. They're like 20% online and you're trying to get him to go back to sleep and just lie down. [00:14:56] Lauren Dugan: And we found, telling stories with him would be helpful. It would calm him down. It would give us a couple, maybe an hour more rest. and there were these like interactive stories where we would, you know, I. Honestly 90% of my story started with there was a squirrel in a forest because I had no creative juice in me in the morning. [00:15:16] Lauren Dugan: But then Ash would kind of take it and he would add his bits and Neil would add his bits, and then we'd all just tell this little story in bed [00:15:23] Lauren Dugan: and it would calm him down and get us some more rest. [00:15:26] Lauren Dugan: so, you know, like Neil said, following, following their sunshine, this was kind of our sunshine was seeing him respond to these stories. [00:15:34] Lauren Dugan: it was so amazing. It was part of our family's fabric. [00:15:39] Lauren Dugan: AI came about, we saw it as this kind of partner, um, that could help us expand what we were already doing, [00:15:46] Lauren Dugan: with Ash. So he, yeah, talking to him about it, it's, he's been there since the beginning. He came up with a lot of our, you know, initial creative. [00:15:56] Lauren Dugan: He was our, our inspiration. [00:15:58] Lauren Dugan: and then. [00:15:59] Lauren Dugan: Talking to Leo. Not as easy. Now he doesn't really get it, but I will say we have, um, [00:16:05] Lauren Dugan: have a little mascot. And so the one thing he does get he can talk to Blobby so he understand this is the, this is the AI buddy that helps kids create stories in the app. [00:16:16] Lauren Dugan: And we have, we have this. And so Leo will talk to Blobby. He gets that. You can kind of talk to him. So it's a different conversation with Leo, but um, it's very cute. [00:16:25] Adam Fishman: That's amazing. I love blobby. [00:16:27] Adam Fishman: the picture the two of you sent me, or the picture that Neil sent me is the two of you holding blobby in between you. So, [00:16:32] Lauren Dugan: Yeah. [00:16:33] Adam Fishman: Neil, anything, anything that you'd add to that? I mean, it, it seems like the two of you were motivated to start this company by your kids or certainly by Ash, uh, who you kind of were doing this with before there was a product involved. [00:16:47] Neil Vidyarthi: when I talk to Ash and when I look at Ash and when he's eight and so many parents are gonna feel this. [00:16:52] Neil Vidyarthi: You're like, what world are they gonna enter? Especially today, it's like, what is gonna prepare them? Things are changing month to month and you know, we didn't have that conversation conduit, right? Like around seven and eight, the YouTube's coming in the ROBLOX is coming, these things are coming in. I felt, I guess, deeply, I wanted to go on a journey with him. it all kind of dovetailed from there. Like, so the conversations were like, what can we do with technology? You know, what do you want to try with technology? He wanted to try something and I wanted to model to him that like, you can take small ideas and just go so far with it. And I also wanna model that. for others. I want him to be a part of that and see us try our hardest. It's a such a hard market, you know? It's consumer there. There's a million distractions. We're not, we're not ignorant to how hard it is to, to climb through this. This gauntlet, but it's been so rewarding to see him grow and him ask questions about what we're doing and cheer for us. [00:17:52] Neil Vidyarthi: One time he said to me he said, I have $200 in my piggy bank, and if you need it, for the business, I'll give it to you. and I was like. Wow. like just, so motivated to like, you know, show him that that's possible and show everybody that's possible. And that's maybe, I think, to found something to be a little delusional. [00:18:11] Neil Vidyarthi: And I. [00:18:11] Neil Vidyarthi: feel like it [00:18:12] Neil Vidyarthi: would be great to get a little bit of a message out there that with AI it's gonna be all this scare talk, but there's an opportunity for everybody to really like, pursue things really hard. And so I'm starting with my own kid. [00:18:21] Adam Fishman: Yeah. Very cool. [00:18:23] Adam Fishman: I did wanna ask the two of you. [00:18:26] Adam Fishman: So a lot of the audience of this podcast is [00:18:28] Adam Fishman: founders and tech, professionals and even, you know, non-tech folks you know, they have a family and they're working through it. They are thinking about a family. I had somebody reach out yesterday and say, Hey, I am on the cusp of being a new dad and I work at this super high flying startup, and I just. [00:18:49] Adam Fishman: Wanted to know if you'd be able to chat about it. Like this show has been really helpful for me. And so [00:18:54] Adam Fishman: for the founders out there, like you, you both are serial founders, who are considering starting a family and they're worried about [00:19:03] Adam Fishman: might this impact me professionally? How am I gonna raise a kid or kids while running a company? [00:19:11] Adam Fishman: Did the two of you have any ad advice, that you would give to them? [00:19:15] Lauren Dugan: it's definitely not a decision to take lightly because, it's a risk to go down this path. and you have to understand, you know, where, where you are, where your skills are, what your support system is like. I, I would really recommend taking stock of, [00:19:32] Lauren Dugan: like doing that [00:19:33] Lauren Dugan: six month, one year, [00:19:35] Lauren Dugan: two year outlook. in terms of managing. Childcare, managing, like the realities of a household with kids, because as a, before you become a parent, there's a lot of things that you do as a parent that you don't [00:19:47] Lauren Dugan: you have to do until you become a parent. [00:19:50] Lauren Dugan: so doing your best to get that in order and understand, [00:19:53] Lauren Dugan: know, the reality of, [00:19:55] Lauren Dugan: yeah, I have grandparents I can call on, or I have, [00:19:58] Lauren Dugan: you know, a group of friends who's my support system and I know I can go to talk to them when I get down. [00:20:03] Lauren Dugan: And just understanding what your support system looks like. It'll look different for everybody. can really help, to [00:20:11] Lauren Dugan: understand your time, your commitment, the space in your life, [00:20:15] Lauren Dugan: that you'll have. Because it can become all encompassing. It can become, you know, there are certain days where [00:20:20] Lauren Dugan: Neil and I we're, you know, we're both in on this same journey and the same business, and if something massive is happening at feel good games. [00:20:28] Lauren Dugan: can squeeze out family time that day, you know, and there's days of guilt and there's days, you know, where it becomes hard to juggle have that perfect balance every day. So I think accepting that you won't have a perfect balance every day. Your kids are gonna get sick then you won't be able to focus on your business that day so much. [00:20:45] Lauren Dugan: So being kind to yourself and understanding these things,is very important. But, um, I'm sure, I'm sure there's more that you can add too, Neil. 'cause it's, it's big, like having a business is like having another family too. So it's like there are big responsibilities. [00:20:59] Neil Vidyarthi: If I was about to do the founder journey and about to have a kid. the first period of having a child is like, you're becoming a parent for the first time, and it's full of, of changes. from every parent I've talked to, You're gonna undergo a lot of changes and you're gonna, your perspective on life, your perspective on time. I always talk about fundamentally changes. Like you're all of a sudden living on the alarm clock of a toddler who might every two hours wants you, you're living in like two hour days, almost going, you know, trying to get some sleep every two hours. [00:21:34] Neil Vidyarthi: Sometimes they sleep through the day and you're, you're fine though. if you're doing the founder thing too, at the exact same time, I think you should be ready for the amount of learning you're gonna do. it's gonna be a challenge. I guess being completely honest, it's not gonna be the same as doing it when you're like way before kids, like you have to be ready to accept, bite the bullet. [00:21:54] Neil Vidyarthi: It's gonna be much harder, and you're not gonna have [00:21:56] Neil Vidyarthi: as much energy. You're gonna have to [00:21:57] Neil Vidyarthi: be super ruthless with [00:21:58] Neil Vidyarthi: prioritization, and you're gonna have to accept some days that you're gonna be like, I'm over committed. [00:22:03] Adam Fishman: Yeah. how did the two of you handle [00:22:07] Adam Fishman: those kinds of trade-offs as a co-founding team? Like, let's say something happens with one of the kids, like, do you, you know, high five and tag each other in? Like, who's got the most energy, who has the, the investor call today? Like, how do you kind of balance that? [00:22:23] Lauren Dugan: you kind of just summed it up really well. It's, it's like, it's, it's down to that, that moment in time when you know there's competing priorities, family, business, and who has the energy for this? Who has the energy for that? which one has the highest need of which one of us? Like, it's, it's very much, having to know what the situation calls for. And again, going back to that emotional shorthand, Neil and I obviously know each other very well, so we know when, [00:22:50] Lauren Dugan: I'm overwhelmed in this area, but I have energy for that? [00:22:52] Lauren Dugan: area, and oh, okay, yeah, let's flip. And, you know, we, we have that, um, ability to trade off, very well. But it's, it's not always easy, right? [00:23:01] Lauren Dugan: Sometimes there's, you know, sometimes need to be in a call and my toddler just wants me, you know, it has to be mom right now. And, you know, how do you deal with that? And same for Neil. The, the competing priorities is, is tough, but I. [00:23:15] Neil Vidyarthi: That's very kind. But there's no call where Leo is like, I. [00:23:18] Neil Vidyarthi: wanna see Dad. Like he doesn't. [00:23:21] Adam Fishman: I've, I know the feeling. Neil. I, [00:23:24] Adam Fishman: I, I I know, And also Lauren, I'm sorry. [00:23:27] Lauren Dugan: I, [00:23:30] Adam Fishman: how do you two fit [00:23:32] Adam Fishman: founder life into a kid's schedule? Like, do you end up working strange and off hours some days or most days? what's a schedule look like for the, [00:23:42] Neil Vidyarthi: Mm. [00:23:42] Adam Fishman: the two of you? [00:23:44] Neil Vidyarthi: I'm gonna start by saying we ri rigorously used project management tools for our life and our family. So I'm gonna shout out Todoist. I used to work there, but IW I'm a diehard user of it, and we are too. We have a team inbox, a family team inbox, an ashman to-do list, and it's very carefully organized. And you know, when I started asking us to do that, it was a little bit of a drag, but now we live by it and so we are able to like. Time box and chunk things together and make sure that we're, we're moving in, in a certain direction. the challenge is when we're both at 30% energy, you? [00:24:16] Neil Vidyarthi: know, it's like if I'm at 100 and you're at 30, great. But when we are both at 30%, it's really. you know, every parent knows This [00:24:25] Neil Vidyarthi: Those moments are like a really slog of a negotiation because, [00:24:29] Neil Vidyarthi: so we try to systematize as much as possible. So it's like, well, I'm taking today, you're taking him tomorrow. But, uh, there are those days where we just look at each other and we're like, what are we [00:24:38] Neil Vidyarthi: gonna do? [00:24:39] Adam Fishman: Yeah. Guess we're ordering takeout and having ice cream for dinner. Like that's what we're doing tonight, kids. Yeah. [00:24:45] Neil Vidyarthi: but you can't do? [00:24:46] Neil Vidyarthi: that seven days a week. [00:24:47] Adam Fishman: Well, I mean, you can, but the end result probably wouldn't be great for our own health and wellness. So, [00:24:55] Adam Fishman: you mentioned Todoist, which is, uh, which is a place you used to work, Neil, [00:24:59] Adam Fishman: and you mentioned kind of time boxing. [00:25:01] Adam Fishman: I also know, you know, about things like the Pomodoro technique, [00:25:04] Adam Fishman: but there was another thing that you both mentioned in the prep for this, which is something called the Freedom App. [00:25:10] Adam Fishman: and so I'm wondering [00:25:12] Adam Fishman: like, how do you leverage time boxing and Pomodoro and the, what is the Freedom app [00:25:18] Adam Fishman: when it comes to like balancing or figuring out parenting? [00:25:22] Neil Vidyarthi: the short answer is that I don't do it as well as I want to. And everyone is probably like that. I've seen the most organized people and they're Like, no, I don't do enough Pomodoro. I don't do enough time boxing. I, I fall off it So you're constantly guilty, but when it works and what you can finish. [00:25:36] Neil Vidyarthi: If you say, I'm gonna give myself 30 minutes to finish something versus open-ended, you'll finish it in 30 minutes, which is like a shock, but it's true. the last five minutes you'll be more productive than you were all day. So we do that for, for a lot of our work because we have to, as parents, we're like, okay, it's gonna end at three and I have two more tasks to do today. So that's one. The two, the Freedom app, is because we can't afford the, as much of the endless scrolling and doom scrolling and, you know, checking whatever news source you want or even checking into your slack while you're off. Freedom, uh, roots it out from the server level, right? like, you can't get to your slack. [00:26:13] Neil Vidyarthi: Your slack was just an empty shell. It won't connect to the Slack server anymore. your phone starts to become this dumb brick and you're just like Ugh. I even? And so you save that time And you pay attention to your kids and you, you go outside and like, I would love to say, we can all do it through willpower, but my brother Jay actually just wrote a book called Reclaim Your Mind, which is all about the willpower is not gonna work. [00:26:34] Neil Vidyarthi: It's like [00:26:34] Neil Vidyarthi: you against 10 data scientists. Every time you pick up your phone, you gotta figure it out. So Freedom App is really cool for that and I hope it's helpful to people. It's been huge for [00:26:42] Neil Vidyarthi: me. [00:26:42] Adam Fishman: [00:26:42] Adam Fishman: Yeah. Lauren, do you, do you use any other kind of time hacks or, you know, ways of systems, for kind of time boxing? [00:26:51] Lauren Dugan: No, not, not too different from Neil. Like I'd say, I mean, Todoist is how we keep our family and business lives organized. So having it all in one place really helps. so that I'm not overextending in terms of the number of tools that I have. I find that that can be overwhelming 'cause there's so many. but for me it's being mindful of when I have my phone and when I don't have my phone, when I'm at my desk, when I'm not at my desk. and trying to put up those, um, distinctions and barriers. I. Whenever I can and when they're needed. but, you know, sometimes it bleeds, but then you, you know, you take stock of it and you say, no, okay, I'm gonna do better next time. And, that's kinda how it goes. [00:27:32] Adam Fishman: so Neil, you mentioned this like cutoff time. Hey, I've gotta get these two tasks done before three o'clock, or I turn into a pumpkin slash my kids come home from whatever school, daycare or whatever. A lot of people describe that sort of forcing function as like a superpower of being a parent and running a company. [00:27:51] Adam Fishman: Uh, would the two of you say that having kids has made you more successful and or capable of running companies like versus say your younger selves, you know, 15, 20 years ago, [00:28:04] Lauren Dugan: Yep. [00:28:05] Adam Fishman: Lauren, you were quick to respond. Why? Why, why do you think that that is? [00:28:11] Lauren Dugan: what Neil said earlier, like, you must feed your children. Okay? You must, before school. That must happen. [00:28:17] Adam Fishman: Yep. [00:28:18] Lauren Dugan: because of those constraints, it happens, right? And so the same thing is applicable to, to most tasks. there's certain things you need deep work and you need, you know, a lot of focus. But even those time boxing, if they take longer time, that's what they take. But things must happen. They must happen in a certain time. And I think parenting, gives you that superpower. It forces that superpower on you, whether willingly or not. [00:28:44] Lauren Dugan: you get that superpower. I think parents [00:28:46] Lauren Dugan: all have that superpower. [00:28:48] Adam Fishman: [00:28:48] Neil Vidyarthi: well, she just said, you must feed them. And it reminded me of Leo who always says, You must go to the office. He says to me, I say, Hey, you wanna come with me when he is with mom? You must go to the office, da da. so that's what comes to mind one. But the second one that, that really does come to mind is that I guess I wanna call back to my earlier answer to someone that's about to become a parent is that you totally get superpowers. Totally. Your focus, your ability to like cut out the ential. That's a Bruce Lee quote. I think hack away at the Inessential is great. [00:29:18] Neil Vidyarthi: It's it's forced on you. And you know, if you're about to be a founder, you're probably a person that? [00:29:22] Neil Vidyarthi: wants to test themselves and do something wild and ambitious. and also your kids will cheer you on and they'll, they'll get super pumped by it. and, you know, you look at them and you think, I wanna build something amazing for them and, [00:29:33] Neil Vidyarthi: for our [00:29:34] Neil Vidyarthi: family. So you get all kinds of stuff. So my 15 years ago, self, uh, wouldn't be able to compete, uh, with me today, I think. [00:29:41] Adam Fishman: I've heard a lot of, um, [00:29:43] Adam Fishman: founders, especially those with young kids [00:29:46] Adam Fishman: who are like, they're lamenting like [00:29:48] Adam Fishman: I [00:29:49] Adam Fishman: I cannot even fathom how much time I wasted before I had kids. [00:29:54] Adam Fishman: Right. Like, what was I even doing for so many hours of, of a day? I wasn't working, [00:29:59] Neil Vidyarthi: Was it all Game of Thrones and Netflix? Like, was it really like those Reed Hastings like really just won over an entire decade of my life? What did I [00:30:07] Neil Vidyarthi: do? [00:30:07] Adam Fishman: Probably that. [00:30:09] Adam Fishman: you alluded to one of these stories, earlier, but there's a couple of stories that you two have, that I would love to get out on this, this show. [00:30:21] Adam Fishman: The first one is one that terrifies me, which is, I don't know if both of you were involved in this trip, but, but Neil, I know you, you were, you took your old as you took ashwin to on a work trip, uh, to Chile of all places when he was like one or two. [00:30:33] Adam Fishman: by my calculation that is a 15 plus hour flight. I don't even know that I. As an adult, as a grown, grown human, would survive that flight. so I have two questions for you. One is, tell me about it. Second is, why did you do it? And the third is, how did you pull it off? [00:30:52] Neil Vidyarthi: We really debated this super hard, right Laura? Like we really had to figure this out. And it was with, our Todoist amazing company. They hold legendary retreats and we wanted to go and join them and I think, Laura, correct me if I'm wrong, but we definitely heard through the grapevine about parents that do this. [00:31:11] Neil Vidyarthi: There is a thing in the first year where parents kind of [00:31:13] Neil Vidyarthi: want to keep doing the same things you did before and not be limited. and [00:31:16] Neil Vidyarthi: we totally got sucked into that. I think we were like we can do this. [00:31:21] Lauren Dugan: With an entire bag full of diapers instead of, you know, changes of clothes for ourselves, we can do it. It's all the same. Yep. [00:31:29] Neil Vidyarthi: did sleep in the bathroom [00:31:31] Neil Vidyarthi: on [00:31:31] Lauren Dugan: Yeah, [00:31:31] Neil Vidyarthi: This is a work trip, and me and Lauren were in the tub down while he slept because it, it was a [00:31:37] Neil Vidyarthi: room that didn't have [00:31:38] Neil Vidyarthi: two sections and he was sleeping barely. He didn't like to sleep. Ashwin, I'll never forget that moment. [00:31:45] Adam Fishman: you slept in the bathtub in the hotel room, [00:31:48] Lauren Dugan: Yeah, we took some blankets and pillows and he got the room. [00:31:52] Lauren Dugan: the crib wouldn't fit in the bathroom, [00:31:54] Adam Fishman: right. [00:31:54] Lauren Dugan: nor was it safe. 'cause he could maybe reach stuff. So we, yeah, he got the center of the room and he, he, [00:31:59] Lauren Dugan: he was very sensitive to light sound, [00:32:02] Lauren Dugan: our presence. So he needed. Total darkness with white noise right by the crib and like, like this perfect, recipe for sleep. [00:32:11] Lauren Dugan: And we tried to recreate it on our trip, like it was at home and it, kind of worked. He did sleep okay, but we slept in the tub, so we maybe didn't, you know, sleep okay [00:32:22] Adam Fishman: you said he was maybe eight months old, That's kind of like roughly the potted plant stage of, of parenting. [00:32:28] Adam Fishman: You can kind of like put a kid and he just sort of sits there and maybe like slumps over a little bit. like Winston Churchill. how was he on the, on the flight? Did you do anything special or did you learn anything about traveling? [00:32:41] Adam Fishman: With a, a young child, on an international flight from that experience, [00:32:46] Neil Vidyarthi: We were the parents, when he started crying, we weren't showing him screens. We were like, screens are not good for babies. And he started to cry and after like seven hours he was really ramping up and everyone was looking and super annoyed and we'd kind of lost it. We were just at a loss. [00:33:08] Neil Vidyarthi: And this 15-year-old kid that was sitting beside us. I reached over slowly and just gave his phone to the baby and the baby stopped crying [00:33:17] Neil Vidyarthi: and I was like, humbled I guess, and also embarrassed and happy. [00:33:23] Adam Fishman: Sometimes your rules go right out the window on the flight, [00:33:26] Adam Fishman: so. [00:33:26] Neil Vidyarthi: Yeah. [00:33:26] Neil Vidyarthi: this. [00:33:34] Neil Vidyarthi: kid gave up his own phone and then, I dunno, doing It was bad. It was bad. It was one of those moments where like, you gotta break rules, you're gonna have rules, and you get crushed as a, as you grow up as a parent, you're like, [00:33:39] Neil Vidyarthi: it's not gonna work the way you think it is at all. [00:33:42] Neil Vidyarthi: In my opinion. If there's a parent out there that does feel that, please let me know. Like, I would love to hear that story actually. [00:33:48] Adam Fishman: no, those parents, um, just posture on social media and when it actually comes, when the rubber meets the road, everything falls apart. So, [00:33:55] Neil Vidyarthi: Yeah. [00:33:55] Adam Fishman: I appreciate that story because you know, a lot of people, [00:33:58] Adam Fishman: they really beat themselves up about this and, we're all just doing our best [00:34:03] Adam Fishman: and, you know, seven hours in [00:34:06] Adam Fishman: of crying, [00:34:08] Adam Fishman: uh, you gotta try something different [00:34:10] Adam Fishman: [00:34:10] Adam Fishman: it happened [00:34:11] Adam Fishman: and it's fine. [00:34:12] Adam Fishman: Ash has founded a company with you, so [00:34:15] Adam Fishman: it's totally good. [00:34:16] Adam Fishman: speaking of which, [00:34:17] Adam Fishman: [00:34:17] Adam Fishman: the second story is you made a video of Ash as the CEO of the company. what's the story behind that? [00:34:25] Lauren Dugan: yeah, this is more recent and, we asked him one day, you know, I, I am, I'm very sensitive to getting, my kids' permission, even even the 3-year-old to put them online. I don't want to put them online if they don't feel comfortable. And so I, we explained it and he said, yeah, I wanna go on and talk about feel good games. [00:34:44] Lauren Dugan: And so we said, okay. we kind of talked about what he thought about feel good games, and it really came out strongly in that conversation that he, he is a founder and he and his head and that is who he is. And it was great. and I think zooming out beyond the, the video of him as the CEO, it was great as parents to hear him answer these really interesting questions that maybe you don't have time or you don't think to ask your kids too often. because, you know, we talk in our day to day, like, how is school and, and know this and that, but these questions were more like, [00:35:17] Lauren Dugan: what do you hope kids get out of stories, like asking a seven or 8-year-old their thoughts, their more, more philosophical thoughts on, certain things. It's illuminating. [00:35:28] Lauren Dugan: So it was, it was such a fun thing to do. [00:35:31] Lauren Dugan: He was so surprising, but I'm not, not too surprising, so confident on camera, [00:35:37] Lauren Dugan: had no qualms, just, you know, chatting and, and letting it all out, letting all his thoughts out. [00:35:43] Lauren Dugan: So it was great to see him, um, do that. And it was just a, a really fun exercise. [00:35:48] Adam Fishman: Awesome. I'll try to link to that in the show notes. 'cause that'd be probably a fun thing for people to watch, assuming they, [00:35:53] Adam Fishman: it's probably on a YouTube channel or [00:35:56] Adam Fishman: we'll find it. [00:35:57] Adam Fishman: Uh, the researchers find everything, so, [00:35:59] Lauren Dugan: [00:35:59] Neil Vidyarthi: It's actually debuting in like a day [00:36:01] Neil Vidyarthi: or two, [00:36:01] Adam Fishman: okay. Okay, cool. Well then we will definitely link to it. [00:36:05] Neil Vidyarthi: [00:36:05] Adam Fishman: okay. This is, this is a fun one. [00:36:07] Adam Fishman: [00:36:07] Adam Fishman: you obviously you're partners in life. You're partners in your startup, [00:36:10] Adam Fishman: and agreement and alignment is super important. [00:36:13] Neil Vidyarthi: Mm-hmm. [00:36:13] Adam Fishman: but what's something that the two of you don't quite agree on when it comes to, to parenting big or small? [00:36:21] Neil Vidyarthi: Being too permissive. [00:36:23] Lauren Dugan: I knew you would say that. [00:36:25] Neil Vidyarthi: What's the boundary? What's the boundary that they have to push against even if they disagree. [00:36:30] Neil Vidyarthi: I feel like that that will build strength. 'cause it's how I was raised and I don't even know if that's true. We've done so much research, but Laura, what, what do you [00:36:37] Neil Vidyarthi: think like. [00:36:38] Lauren Dugan: Yeah, I would agree. Like all I wanna do is say like, what boundary? I'm just gonna hug them. Like that's, you know, [00:36:44] Lauren Dugan: so, I'd say would be one of the biggest ones. I mean, our, our parenting philosophy is very similar, but there the edges, I think we have, I think what you, you said Neil, I think a lot of it comes from how we were raised. [00:36:58] Lauren Dugan: And, when you become a parent, it gives you an opportunity and again, maybe forces the opportunity for you to assess your own childhood a little bit and, and how it created you. and so you have this. Perspective from the way you were raised. And I have, a different perspective and I think that, that sometimes, I'd say that might be the, the thing that causes the most butting heads in our [00:37:23] Lauren Dugan: parenting styles, [00:37:24] Adam Fishman: you mentioned that the two of you are pretty, have pretty similar styles, which I, you know, I find that a lot of parents that that's a thing that they align on upfront. How did the two of you. [00:37:34] Adam Fishman: Figure that out [00:37:36] Adam Fishman: or discuss that before you had kids, or was that something that you [00:37:40] Adam Fishman: discussed? [00:37:41] Neil Vidyarthi: This makes me want to say one thing, which is that we lived together from the moment we met each other. Right. I moved into an and and we were literally like housemates in this one room. I was subletting a subletter and we've met and then she was playing Pokemon and we've always had pretty aligned styles and I know we didn't talk about it or, or think that much about it. [00:38:01] Neil Vidyarthi: It just kind of happened. Once it, it started happening. We are the, we are definitely Like along for the journey. I think we learned together, I guess. but Lauren, I have to give credit actually, which is that she's, she leads, she does a ton of reading, she does a ton of organizing. [00:38:17] Neil Vidyarthi: She makes sure like if I have a strong opinion about something, she'll always bring the data and be like, there's a lot of data that says, you know. like about boundaries. Even like, you know. [00:38:27] Neil Vidyarthi: the way that you enforce them and when you can enforce them. Because the thing that, I think is tough is when he's two, like they don't really, they're not gonna take negative feedback. [00:38:36] Neil Vidyarthi: Like, it just, their brain isn't ready for, it. so all, you just want to kind of help them sprout. Potted plant and, you know, make sure that they actually grow and [00:38:44] Neil Vidyarthi: it can be tempting to be like, no, this is a bad thing to do. And, but that's, it's just gonna create strife and say dadda, go to the office. [00:38:52] Adam Fishman: Yeah, the boundary is more of like the natural consequence at that point. As long as they're going to be safe, [00:39:00] Adam Fishman: if you put your hand near a hot stove, it's hot, and you probably don't do that again. as long as the house doesn't get burned down, uh, [00:39:07] Neil Vidyarthi: talk of natural consequences in this house and sounds like you know it. And Lauren is the one that taught [00:39:11] Neil Vidyarthi: me that [00:39:11] Lauren Dugan: that's how I think kids learn best. That's how humans learn best. [00:39:14] Adam Fishman: that's right. [00:39:15] Adam Fishman: Okay. [00:39:16] Adam Fishman: Uh, last few questions for the two of you before our lightning round. [00:39:20] Adam Fishman: so, [00:39:21] Adam Fishman: you know, the two of you built an entire career, uh, decades, multi-decade, long career in, in technology or around technology. And you kind of alluded to this, Neil, which is like, I don't know what life is gonna be like next month. [00:39:34] Adam Fishman: Things are changing so fast. What are the two of you want your kids' relationship to be with technology as they get [00:39:42] Adam Fishman: older? Is this something you've [00:39:44] Adam Fishman: talked about? Talk about regularly? [00:39:48] Neil Vidyarthi: obviously AI is, you know, the, the central technology right now that's on everybody's mind. And, [00:39:54] Lauren Dugan: When I see the generation just below ours, like let's say they're university students right now, are just kind of graduating. I see a, lack of critical thinking, maybe related to technology, and I don't think it's their fault, and I think that it's something that can be worked on, but I want our kids to think critically about the, the technology in their lives, how it is [00:40:20] Lauren Dugan: them, how it affects their, emotions, how do they feel before, during, and after using technology, being able to express that to themselves or others. we started this company because we both are like techno optimists. We feel like it, Has the big potential to be a force for good in people's lives if it is built and oriented towards that. but I think as kids grow, [00:40:46] Lauren Dugan: [00:40:46] Lauren Dugan: my 7-year-old when he was, let's say four or five and just starting to use the iPad, he wouldn't really understand like what was an ad and what was the game. [00:40:55] Lauren Dugan: And, you know, these in-app ads were confusing and he didn't like them and he had this immediate reaction, negative reaction to them. And, just seeing that, you know, it really taught me that, hey, like viscerally taught me that kids can't distinguish good and bad technology. As Neil said, there's or a hundred or an army of data scientists behind the screen trying to get their attention and pull them in. [00:41:18] Lauren Dugan: So. Equipping them with critical thinking skills, I think is the number one, most important thing I would like. [00:41:25] Lauren Dugan: and I would love my kids to be able to use it in a positive, healthy way in their lives. [00:41:30] Neil Vidyarthi: I think for me, The relationship with technology is so crazy right now because it's literally gonna be a relationship with an intelligence. We're getting to that point in one, way or another. And so that relationship, you know, quote unquote, is going to affect who they are, uh, how they think. [00:41:48] Neil Vidyarthi: You know, we're seeing cognitive stories of people with less cognition because they let the, AI do the thinking for them and it's even hard to parse what's good or bad in this quick of a change changing environment. So in my opinion, with intelligence in the machine, it's, gonna be so critical to define what does it mean to be human what is unique to your experience that you want to preserve, that you wanna live through and and experience in your life. And I hope that we can teach them that. Part of why we started the business was to create playful, fun ais that, that are in the room there too, and that can maybe pontificate on, on comedy and spiritual matters and adventures and, and story and, help illuminate a, a child so that they're like having a strong relationship with ai. [00:42:37] Neil Vidyarthi: And then also eventually getting to that, that age old question that comes from Socrates and [00:42:42] Neil Vidyarthi: all the Great Saints, which is like, who am I? Like ultimately that would be the, the thing I hope. the modern technology age brings to kids. [00:42:50] Adam Fishman: Okay. Wow. Profound. Thank you both for sharing that. [00:42:54] Neil Vidyarthi: Thanks. [00:42:54] Adam Fishman: the most thoughtful, uh, interpretations of [00:42:57] Adam Fishman: that question that I think I've heard on this show, so thank you. [00:43:01] Adam Fishman: okay, so your company is Feelgood Games. The first product that you have is Little Magic Stories. [00:43:08] Adam Fishman: besides that, what is the most creative use of AI that you've found as a parent? [00:43:17] Lauren Dugan: I use it to [00:43:19] Lauren Dugan: help guide my parenting research, like it's not directly with Ash or Leo, but I do use it to spark, research. So I, I will use it as a tool. If I have a question, um, about maybe certain behaviors or certain things my kids are encountering, in their lives, I will run it by my good old friend chat, GPT, and start the journey there. [00:43:43] Lauren Dugan: Um. lot of times, [00:43:46] Lauren Dugan: I can give one more example. I used, um, mid journey with Ash to create custom Pokemon that he wanted, to see and visualize. that was fun to just get his idea, about what would a, like a grass pokemon with wings that was kind of like our cat, but a little different and kind of create these, custom little monsters for him. [00:44:08] Adam Fishman: Neil, what about you? Have you come up with any really creative uses of AI as a parent? [00:44:13] Neil Vidyarthi: our whole life is pretty much a creative use of AI as a parent. [00:44:17] Neil Vidyarthi: other than that for ai, you know, it's funny, I. [00:44:20] Neil Vidyarthi: guess I'm still looking to see, I. Where it can enrich them and being very cautious about how I introduce it to them.so that's on one side. As a parent though, getting creative, I think, I found a good dad joke the other day, so [00:44:35] Neil Vidyarthi: There, there you go. [00:44:36] Adam Fishman: Love that. Uh, chat GT's pretty great at coming up with dad jokes. They, they're incredibly cringeworthy too, [00:44:44] Adam Fishman: so really good at that. [00:44:46] Adam Fishman: Okay. [00:44:47] Adam Fishman: tell me about a mistake or mistakes that you [00:44:50] Adam Fishman: think you've made as a, as a parent. [00:44:53] Adam Fishman: son, my eldest Ash was talking about, [00:44:56] Lauren Dugan: a spider had landed on his pillow. [00:44:59] Lauren Dugan: And That's a scary thing for, I feel many humans, you know, not just kids. A spider's on his pillow and he got you to deal with it right now. [00:45:06] Lauren Dugan: But then afterwards he was very worked up and he was very scared and it was at bedtime. So I was trying to calm him down [00:45:13] Lauren Dugan: I don't know why, looking back I thought this was a good idea, [00:45:17] Lauren Dugan: it worked in other situations where I, when I share stories of my own life and my own experience as a kid, he likes that he relates to it. [00:45:23] Lauren Dugan: He knows I've gone through similar things. So I started telling him a few stories about, bugs. I was at my cottage once and I put on, I was like seven and I put on a life jacket to get on a boat and there was a nest of spiders in it, and there were about a hundred baby spiders that exploded out of it and crawled all over me. [00:45:41] Lauren Dugan: And it was horrifying. I was, I was trying to empathize with him and show him, you know, it happens and I survived and it's okay. And we've all been through it and he definitely took it as nightmare fuel and did not sleep that night. [00:45:53] Adam Fishman: Oh. [00:45:54] Lauren Dugan: I mean, that was my yesterday's mistake. [00:45:57] Adam Fishman: But best intentions, I understand what you were trying to do there. So it's not like you immediately went over and like, Hey, let's watch Arachni phobia before you go to bed. That sounds like a great idea. [00:46:07] Lauren Dugan: not [00:46:08] Adam Fishman: Yeah. [00:46:08] Lauren Dugan: not [00:46:09] Adam Fishman: Yeah. What about you, Neil? [00:46:11] Neil Vidyarthi: Ashtin was super upset and I was telling him to breathe and calm down and meditate, and he was kicking his legs and totally like, flailing. And I said, Ashtin, it's a small thing. You all, You [00:46:21] Neil Vidyarthi: you have to calm down. And he said, dad, I'm allowed to feel my feelings. I'm not hurting anyone. [00:46:25] Neil Vidyarthi: I'm just expressing myself. [00:46:27] Adam Fishman: Profound. [00:46:28] Neil Vidyarthi: I was kind of stunned. it, it just generally like letting kids feel their feelings, uh, has been a, a big one for me because they, they're suffering, they're like freaking out [00:46:39] Neil Vidyarthi: or panicking or all this stuff. and you wanna be there for them, but it's okay to feel their feelings. [00:46:44] Neil Vidyarthi: And so I think, you know, in the early days I was trying to correct things a little too much. [00:46:48] Adam Fishman: okay. I [00:46:50] Adam Fishman: wanted to end, on some, uh. [00:47:00] Adam Fishman: Advice, advice for both personal and professional life, which Neil is a concept that you shared of finding value aligned people. can you tell me more about why that's been so important for you and, and the both of you? [00:47:06] Neil Vidyarthi: life is full of challenges. It's tough. And when people value the same thing, whether it's trust or making a difference, then when you get into those situations. You'll have each other's back naturally without having to use the willpower. And I guess I'm going back to that idea a few times, but it feels, in today's world, we're living in a, a world that requires a ton of willpower just to some, for some people just to get up every day. [00:47:33] Neil Vidyarthi: And I, I've been in that situation too, you know, I empathize with, with the state of things today. And when you find people that have the same values as you, maybe that's just having a good time. [00:47:42] Neil Vidyarthi: it'll flow that way without willpower. And, you know, I use that word flow like I, I hope. People can get [00:47:47] Neil Vidyarthi: into that state of, of flow and that happens a lot more with value aligned, uh, that people that have the same beliefs as you and same [00:47:55] Neil Vidyarthi: values. [00:47:55] Adam Fishman: Okay. [00:47:56] Adam Fishman: Uh, before lightning round, how can people follow along or be helpful to the two of you, [00:48:02] Adam Fishman: uh, with your company in life? [00:48:05] Adam Fishman: All of the above. [00:48:06] Lauren Dugan: if you wanna try our app, um, it's up and it's free. Right now we are working with, [00:48:13] Lauren Dugan: anyone who's interested, whether or not you have kids, you're thinking of having kids, you're an aunt or a grandparent or anything. [00:48:21] Lauren Dugan: a teacher. [00:48:23] Lauren Dugan: it's available at app dot little magic stories.com. [00:48:29] Lauren Dugan: or you can follow us on Instagram to keep up with our journey. [00:48:32] Lauren Dugan: it's just at little magic stories on Instagram, it's our handle. [00:48:35] Lauren Dugan: Um, those are probably the, the two best ways to connect to us now. Neil and I were on LinkedIn and we're cool to have DM conversations and chats with any parents, [00:48:46] Lauren Dugan: who are on this same journey or thinking about getting onto the startup journey. [00:48:51] Lauren Dugan: we'd love to chat and just, you know, share stories and swap stories. That's, that's also amazing. [00:48:57] Adam Fishman: cool. Did we leave anything out there, Neil? Any other ways to get in touch? [00:49:01] Neil Vidyarthi: I would just also say that like, you know, we really wanna know what parents, like your podcast here is, is definitely has a lot of parents and we're so early that we're trying to make this useful to parents, like, in a used case way, like something that like really fits into your life and solves a problem once a week. [00:49:15] Neil Vidyarthi: It's not just a game, right? Like people are using it to teach their kids more, more reading or more creativity, but also something that you feel. It's called like parents are calling it healthy screen time. So I'd love to hear from parents what are your healthy screen time choices. Like if, if if [00:49:28] Neil Vidyarthi: I could magically see a 10,000 answers about what is a healthy screen time option for your six to 12-year-old, I would love to know. [00:49:35] Neil Vidyarthi: So if you have an opinion on that, I would love to. I'd [00:49:37] Neil Vidyarthi: love to hear [00:49:38] Adam Fishman: Okay, well maybe I'll survey some folks and find out for you, [00:49:41] Adam Fishman: Okay, [00:49:42] Adam Fishman: it's time for lightning round. [00:49:44] Adam Fishman: Are you [00:49:45] Adam Fishman: ready? [00:49:46] Lauren Dugan: I am. [00:49:48] Adam Fishman: That is the correct answer. all right, here we go. I ask you a question. You say the first thing that comes to mind, uh, we can popcorn back and forth. You can tell the other person you want them to take it. [00:50:00] Adam Fishman: Like really, whatever we, it's a free for all. So here we go. what is the most indispensable parenting product that you have ever purchased? [00:50:11] Neil Vidyarthi: Yo. [00:50:12] Lauren Dugan: Yo [00:50:12] Lauren Dugan: Cho? [00:50:13] Adam Fishman: What is Yto? I, I've not heard of this. [00:50:17] Lauren Dugan: Audio player. Audio screen Free player for [00:50:20] Adam Fishman: Ooh, [00:50:21] Lauren Dugan: Very easy to use. Our eldest is an auditory learner. Um, so it is his jam. [00:50:27] Adam Fishman: super cool. what is the most useless parenting product you've ever purchased? [00:50:33] Lauren Dugan: A wipes [00:50:33] Neil Vidyarthi: No. [00:50:38] Lauren Dugan: warmer. I hated that thing. [00:50:40] Adam Fishman: Wipes warmer. Yeah. Kids don't need warm wipes. Come on. Come on. Just hose 'em off in the yard. what is the weirdest thing that you've ever found in your kids' pockets or in the washing machine? [00:50:55] Lauren Dugan: Most frequent is rocks. It's just constantly rocks. [00:50:58] Adam Fishman: Yeah. [00:50:59] Lauren Dugan: rocks. [00:50:59] Neil Vidyarthi: rocks. Leo always has marbles and [00:51:01] Neil Vidyarthi: rocks. [00:51:02] Lauren Dugan: Yeah, [00:51:02] Neil Vidyarthi: uh, one time he definitely came back and it was, [00:51:06] Neil Vidyarthi: I can only describe it as a brown gooey mess that he pulled out of his pocket. And [00:51:11] Neil Vidyarthi: you're just like, what is that? To be safe, we're going right [00:51:14] Neil Vidyarthi: for a bath [00:51:15] Adam Fishman: Yeah. [00:51:15] Neil Vidyarthi: have no idea. I can't really get a smell profile. [00:51:18] Adam Fishman: All right. Rocks, marbles, brown, gooey substance. [00:51:22] Adam Fishman: in that order, uh, true or false, there's only one correct way to load the dishwasher. [00:51:27] Lauren Dugan: true. [00:51:28] Neil Vidyarthi: Oh, there is one way that I don't [00:51:31] Neil Vidyarthi: do [00:51:31] Adam Fishman: I was gonna say, whose way is the correct way? [00:51:34] Adam Fishman: All right, Neil, what is your signature? Dad's superpower. [00:51:38] Neil Vidyarthi: wrestling them, like fighting them, like Leo wants to like fight, like they call it big monkey. [00:51:43] Adam Fishman: Okay. [00:51:43] Neil Vidyarthi: like [00:51:44] Neil Vidyarthi: anytime, if I go big monkey mode, All the kids will [00:51:46] Neil Vidyarthi: relax no matter how much, how crazy, angry [00:51:50] Neil Vidyarthi: they're. [00:51:50] Adam Fishman: All right. Uh, Lauren, what is your signature? Mom Superpower. [00:51:54] Lauren Dugan: hugs [00:51:56] Adam Fishman: Okay. [00:51:57] Lauren Dugan: or funny voices too. They kind of like my silly voices. I don't [00:52:01] Adam Fishman: awesome. Alright. What is the crazier block of time in your house? 6:00 AM to 8:00 AM or 6:00 PM to 8:00 PM. [00:52:08] Lauren Dugan: I'm gonna go with morning, I'm [00:52:09] Adam Fishman: Okay. [00:52:10] Adam Fishman: if your kids had to describe you each in one word, what would it be? Neil. [00:52:17] Neil Vidyarthi: hard. I bet Ash would call me that he'd be like, you're too [00:52:22] Neil Vidyarthi: hard on [00:52:23] Adam Fishman: Okay. Lauren. [00:52:24] Lauren Dugan: I mean now that that's in my head, it might be soft. [00:52:28] Adam Fishman: There we go. [00:52:29] Adam Fishman: Balanced yin and yang. Okay. [00:52:31] Lauren Dugan: so [00:52:32] Adam Fishman: what is the funniest thing that one of your kids has ever said in public [00:52:38] Adam Fishman: funniest slash most embarrassing. [00:52:40] Lauren Dugan: I mean, [00:52:42] Lauren Dugan: he was asking loudly why someone's wearing something or like [00:52:46] Neil Vidyarthi: Yeah. [00:52:47] Lauren Dugan: out someone's appearance like in a very loud way. They do that sometimes? [00:52:52] Adam Fishman: are the best at that. They really are. [00:52:54] Neil Vidyarthi: [00:52:54] Neil Vidyarthi: And Ash at one time was like, [00:52:56] Neil Vidyarthi: they lost all their chess matches today. I was like, [00:53:00] Adam Fishman: okay. How many parenting books do you have in your house? [00:53:04] Lauren Dugan: a hundred, like I have some [00:53:06] Adam Fishman: How many parenting books have you read, cover to cover? [00:53:10] Lauren Dugan: 10, [00:53:11] Adam Fishman: What? Impressive, [00:53:13] Adam Fishman: Neil, what's your answer to that question? [00:53:16] Neil Vidyarthi: Zero [00:53:17] Lauren Dugan: No. You, you, no. [00:53:20] Neil Vidyarthi: Uhuh? no. [00:53:21] Neil Vidyarthi: it's, it's maybe [00:53:23] Neil Vidyarthi: one, the, [00:53:24] Adam Fishman: Okay. [00:53:25] Neil Vidyarthi: the towel of parenting, and it's kind of a cheat because it's, it's a [00:53:28] Neil Vidyarthi: shorter and [00:53:28] Adam Fishman: Okay. All right. I like Lauren's answer better. [00:53:32] Adam Fishman: Neil, how many dad jokes do you tell on average in a given day? [00:53:35] Neil Vidyarthi: three to four, three to [00:53:37] Neil Vidyarthi: five, [00:53:37] Adam Fishman: Okay. [00:53:38] Neil Vidyarthi: yeah, [00:53:39] Adam Fishman: Okay. And Lauren, how bad are the dad jokes? Scale of one to 10. 10 being the worst. [00:53:43] Lauren Dugan: I secretly love them, so I'm not a good one to ask. I, I love them. [00:53:48] Adam Fishman: Okay. [00:53:48] Lauren Dugan: cheesy, [00:53:50] Adam Fishman: This is what makes for a happy marriage, [00:53:52] Lauren Dugan: Ash would say he does rate them. He rates them on a scale of one to 10. He gives a lot of zeros, but it makes the five pluses matter more. 'cause [00:54:02] Adam Fishman: right? [00:54:03] Lauren Dugan: he's honest with the rating, [00:54:04] Lauren Dugan: so he, [00:54:04] Neil Vidyarthi: more [00:54:05] Neil Vidyarthi: fives these [00:54:05] Lauren Dugan: he gets some fives. [00:54:06] Lauren Dugan: Yeah. [00:54:07] Adam Fishman: He's like the Olympic judge that's like really grades on a harsh curve. So, [00:54:12] Neil Vidyarthi: Yeah. [00:54:13] Adam Fishman: what is the most absurd thing that one of your kids has ever asked you to buy for them? [00:54:18] Lauren Dugan: Great Wolf Lodge, the actual post. [00:54:20] Adam Fishman: The, the entire place. [00:54:25] Adam Fishman: Okay. Uh, [00:54:27] Lauren Dugan: there as our home. [00:54:28] Adam Fishman: I love that I can't handle the amount of chlorine that is in the air at the Great Wolf Lodge. So, what is the most difficult kids TV show that you've ever had to sit through? [00:54:38] Neil Vidyarthi: Cry babies like never again. I couldn't. I won't. Why? [00:54:46] Adam Fishman: I just love that Neil has an instant, visceral reaction to this. [00:54:50] Neil Vidyarthi: That's years ago. I've never let [00:54:52] Neil Vidyarthi: Leo watch it. [00:54:52] Adam Fishman: Lauren, do you have a different one? [00:54:54] Lauren Dugan: It wasn't that bad. I don't know. Mine are more of the YouTube. Um. [00:55:01] Lauren Dugan: SMR [00:55:03] Lauren Dugan: pattern, hands [00:55:05] Adam Fishman: yeah. [00:55:05] Lauren Dugan: you know, [00:55:06] Adam Fishman: Oh yeah. okay. What is your favorite kids movie? [00:55:10] Neil Vidyarthi: Super Mario Brothers. [00:55:13] Adam Fishman: Lauren. [00:55:14] Adam Fishman: Totoro. Oh, okay. Okay. [00:55:16] Adam Fishman: Uh, [00:55:17] Neil Vidyarthi: my answer. I [00:55:17] Neil Vidyarthi: switch. [00:55:18] Adam Fishman: y Yours is also Totoro now. [00:55:20] Neil Vidyarthi: Yeah. It was the first movie we showed Ashwin and [00:55:22] Neil Vidyarthi: we wanted to [00:55:23] Lauren Dugan: both of them? Yeah. [00:55:24] Neil Vidyarthi: and [00:55:24] Adam Fishman: Uh, that's sweet. [00:55:26] Adam Fishman: okay, here's another one for you. Which nostalgic movie can you just not wait to force your kids to watch? [00:55:33] Neil Vidyarthi: Karate kid. [00:55:34] Lauren Dugan: [00:55:34] Adam Fishman: Same or different for you, Lauren? [00:55:37] Lauren Dugan: No, mine would be, [00:55:39] Lauren Dugan: Beetlejuice, I [00:55:40] Adam Fishman: Oh, we just did that pretty recently in our household. [00:55:43] Adam Fishman: Top notch. [00:55:44] Adam Fishman: We haven't done karate kid yet. [00:55:46] Adam Fishman: I don't know why. It's great. [00:55:48] Adam Fishman: [00:55:48] Adam Fishman: okay. What is the worst experience that either of you've ever had Assembling a kid's toy or a piece of furniture? [00:55:56] Neil Vidyarthi: Lauren informed me I was gonna build, uh, an entire plague set in the backyard. I never do this stuff. It took me five days on, like every day doing it, triple checking things. It was so hard and, It was so worth it. But yeah, like I didn't know it was gonna be that hard and then someone else built it. [00:56:15] Neil Vidyarthi: The, [00:56:16] Neil Vidyarthi: I remember one time meeting a dad and I'm like, oh yeah, how'd it go? He is like, I built it yesterday, like in one day. I was like, like that was a serious [00:56:24] Neil Vidyarthi: week of my [00:56:25] Adam Fishman: Wow. Didn't even use the instruction manual. Just did it by vibes. Yeah. [00:56:29] Adam Fishman: Yeah. [00:56:32] Adam Fishman: It is. That's what I hear. [00:56:33] Adam Fishman: Okay. Have you ever accidentally mixed up your kids' names? [00:56:37] Neil Vidyarthi: I'm brutal for it. [00:56:39] Neil Vidyarthi: I call Leo [00:56:40] Neil Vidyarthi: my younger son, Jay, [00:56:43] Adam Fishman: It's your brother? [00:56:46] Adam Fishman: Yep. All right. Now, how often do you tell your kids back in my day? Stories. [00:56:51] Lauren Dugan: You do a lot. You do a lot. Yeah. [00:56:56] Neil Vidyarthi: just, [00:56:58] Lauren Dugan: You [00:56:58] Neil Vidyarthi: guess I Do I guess I [00:56:59] Neil Vidyarthi: do. [00:57:00] Adam Fishman: Okay. [00:57:01] Adam Fishman: Do you have a favorite one, Neil, that you like to tell? [00:57:04] Neil Vidyarthi: back in my day, I do love to tell him about the dawn of video [00:57:06] Neil Vidyarthi: games. [00:57:06] Neil Vidyarthi: It's insane to me that he lives in these like beautiful, like completely realized 3D worlds. And I was playing flat games like [00:57:12] Neil Vidyarthi: Mario, [00:57:13] Adam Fishman: yeah. [00:57:13] Neil Vidyarthi: you don't even know how great this [00:57:15] Neil Vidyarthi: is. [00:57:16] Adam Fishman: Someday he should read Console Wars, which is a great book. [00:57:20] Neil Vidyarthi: book. [00:57:20] Neil Vidyarthi: Have it right [00:57:20] Adam Fishman: yes, I, I devoured that book. It was very good. Okay. Finally, what is your take on minivans [00:57:30] Neil Vidyarthi: Oh, this is right into the heart. We literally wrestled over this one. We, we literally, [00:57:38] Lauren Dugan: [00:57:38] Lauren Dugan: I'm [00:57:38] Adam Fishman: Lauren's team Minivan. Okay. [00:57:40] Lauren Dugan: The door doesn't open it slides. [00:57:43] Lauren Dugan: That is, you know, [00:57:44] Adam Fishman: Yeah. [00:57:45] Lauren Dugan: I didn't win that battle, but [00:57:46] Adam Fishman: Oh, okay. [00:57:48] Lauren Dugan: next time. [00:57:49] Adam Fishman: Yeah. One of the things you know, people don't quite appreciate about Minivans is that the 3-year-old can't open the door and swing it into the car next to You [00:57:56] Adam Fishman: You know, it just can't happen. [00:57:58] Adam Fishman: okay, so Lauren's team minivan. [00:58:00] Adam Fishman: Uh, no, I'm not. [00:58:03] Adam Fishman: Maybe on vacation when no one can identify me. [00:58:06] Neil Vidyarthi: Yeah. [00:58:07] Adam Fishman: and I'm out of the state or country. [00:58:12] Neil Vidyarthi: That's happened to me. I, I, I, you put it perfectly. I, that's how I feel. [00:58:16] Adam Fishman: Yes, I have definitely had one on vacation and I do not own one now, nor do I have a plan to, um, maybe one of those new electric VW buses. We'll see. [00:58:25] Adam Fishman: Well with that Lauren Neil, thank you so much for joining me today on Startup Dad. This was a really fun conversation. Appreciate all that you had to share, and I wish you both the best of luck on your company and your family, and I can't wait to try, uh, little magic Stories. [00:58:45] Adam Fishman: It's gonna be great. [00:58:46] Neil Vidyarthi: Thanks So [00:58:47] Neil Vidyarthi: much for [00:58:47] Neil Vidyarthi: having us, Adam. It was a true, really a delight. It was super fun. [00:58:51] Adam Fishman: Thank you for listening to today's conversation with Neil and Lauren. Startup Dad is available in all your favorite podcast players and YouTube. Just search for startup dad to find it anywhere you listen to podcasts. [00:59:05] Adam Fishman: Thanks for listening, and see you next week.