Latest / Shed Talk with Kevin Halliday / Strong People Burn Out | Corinne Lyall, CEO and Owner of Royal LePage Benchmark | Shed Talk Ep. #118

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Strong People Burn Out | Corinne Lyall, CEO and Owner of Royal LePage Benchmark | Shed Talk Ep. #118 · Shed Talk with Kevin Halliday

• Kevin: What if the person who appears the Kevin: strongest is actually the closest Kevin: to burnout? Kevin: Today's guest understands the Kevin: pressures behind performance. Kevin: Corinne Lyall is the CEO, owner, Kevin: and broker of Royal LePage Kevin: Benchmark, where she leads more Kevin: than 220 realtors. With over Kevin: 30 years of experience, Corinne has Kevin: led people through changing Kevin: markets, economic uncertainty, Kevin: growing customers expectations and Kevin: we all know it exactly what that is Kevin: and the Kevin: constant pressure to produce she is Kevin: a past president of the Calgary Kevin: real estate board a former chair of Kevin: pillar nine and was named Krebs Kevin: Realtor of the Kevin: Year in 2023 but today's Kevin: conversation isn't about houses and Kevin: it isn't about sales numbers it's Kevin: about the people behind those Kevin: numbers how do we lead and Kevin: recognize hidden burnouts? How do Kevin: we support the people who always Kevin: appear strong? Kevin: And how can we have men over 50 Kevin: continuing succeeding without Kevin: losing their health, their Kevin: relationships, or even their sense Kevin: of worth? Corinne Lyle, welcome to Kevin: Shed Talk. Kevin: So what do you think? Guest: I'm very excited to be Guest: I know, Guest: here. Kevin: so am I. And it's interesting Kevin: because we got together and we've Kevin: known each other for, oh my gosh, Kevin: 25, no, No, 15 years and Kevin: celebrating EO together and growing Kevin: up together and everything like Kevin: that. Kevin: So I really appreciate you being on Kevin: EO and or on EO, Guest: On Shed Talk, yeah. Kevin: So it's very exciting. Kevin: So just to jump into this, I have Kevin: to ask you the first question to Kevin: get going is after three decades, Kevin: okay, in the Calgary Real Estate Kevin: Board, okay, and you've been doing Kevin: this for Kevin: a long time, and what do you Kevin: understand about the market today, Kevin: and your people, that you didn't Kevin: know when you first started? Guest: that there's opportunities in every Guest: market you know and one of the Guest: things that i have realized too Guest: about living in this city in this Guest: province is that we're incredibly Guest: resilient we've survived so many Guest: many different markets and when you Guest: talk to other real estate Guest: individuals across the country they Guest: have no idea what it's like to live Guest: in this province and have gone Guest: through the things that we Guest: have gone through it's actually Guest: only recently the provinces like Guest: Ontario and BC have experienced Guest: what we have with all of our in the Guest: past we don't experience them now Guest: but our bus boom Guest: type of cycles they had all the Guest: time that we were kind of doing ups Guest: and downs in the market they're Guest: like and so now they're they're Guest: suffering a little bit and i've Guest: been invited a number of times to Guest: talk to um the agents about trying Guest: to survive different markets but i Guest: mean here we just like it's just Guest: another day and Kevin: it's interesting because it's like Kevin: another day and we, and we always Kevin: say, oh, okay, here it is. And we, Kevin: we talk about down east, the east, Kevin: the west, whatever that is and how Kevin: things are changing. But in the Kevin: real estate side, like, cause you Kevin: have 220 employees or 220 realtors. Kevin: How do you manage that many? Guest: You know, I don't like to say that Kevin: Herding cats. Kevin: call it herding Guest: cats. No? Guest: so much. Guest: And a lot of people in our Guest: industry, too, say, oh, you're Guest: babysitting these many people. Guest: No. Guest: I don't treat them like babies. Guest: They're not. Guest: These are adults. Guest: right? And they're individuals that Guest: are trying to run their own Guest: businesses. And so my job is to try Guest: to support them, right? And also we Guest: so Guest: provide a ton of training. Guest: We do mentorship. We try to make Guest: when Guest: ourselves available for whatever Guest: they need at that point in time in Guest: their career. And so it's Guest: something, I feel more like I'm in Guest: partnership with those people. And Guest: I know Guest: everybody. I know everyone in my Guest: office and I take great stakes in Guest: trying to know them. Kevin: So when you look at real estate Kevin: because you when you first started Kevin: you're obviously in real estate way Kevin: back in the day selling a widget of Kevin: commodity houses and then all of a Kevin: Yep. Kevin: sudden switch that over Kevin: to be a brokerage the mindset must Kevin: change because yes you understand Kevin: how they talk yes you understand Kevin: what they need their wants and Kevin: needs but now you're on the other Kevin: end as the brokerage helping Kevin: helping these guys succeed. Where's Kevin: that transition point there? Guest: Yeah, I love that you asked me this Guest: question because I made a decision. Guest: I love selling real estate. By the Guest: way, I loved it. I thrived in it. Guest: I did it for 12 years full time. Guest: And the reason why I got into the Guest: broker side is because my mom, Guest: unbeknownst to me, was grooming me Guest: to become the next broker owner of Guest: the company. Guest: And so when she said to me, hey, Guest: listen, like I want to retire at Guest: some point and I would like you to Guest: take over. I think that you have Guest: leadership skills. I think that you Guest: would do a really good job of this. Guest: I agreed to do that. And a big part Guest: of that was a mental shift for me Guest: because I was the type of realtor Guest: that would focus so much on my Guest: clients, you know, and I didn't Guest: spend that much time sort of Guest: thinking about what other realtors Guest: were doing, right? Other than, oh, Guest: that person does a great job of Guest: marketing. Guest: I'd love to learn a little bit from Guest: them. But beyond that, my focus Guest: were my clients. And so when I got Guest: into the broker side, I said, what Guest: do I need to do differently here? Guest: Now I have all these realtors that Guest: are looking to me for support and Guest: help. Guest: And there are clients. As owners of Guest: the company, as broker, these are Guest: my clients, or the realtors. So I Guest: took that mental shift and said, Guest: you know what? every single person Guest: I know has value. So I'm going to Guest: switch from looking at my clients Guest: as having those value into looking Guest: at the realtors as my clients as Guest: having value. Guest: And so with every single person Guest: that I know, I look for something Guest: that I can connect with them on, Guest: that I see them as providing value Guest: in some way. So how can I help and Guest: support them and help them grow? Guest: So that was the big mental shift Guest: for me was just moving from you Guest: know members of the public to the Guest: real estate realtors and shifting Guest: that that value perspective so Kevin: So when you're in that transition, Kevin: okay, so you're doing that mindset. Kevin: Mom is grooming you that you didn't Kevin: know she was grooming you. So the Kevin: things you know that you didn't Kevin: know and saying, thanks, Mom, for Kevin: helping me out with this. And then Kevin: she's grooming you. Kevin: And then you're in the real estate Kevin: for X amount of years. Kevin: But that transition going over and Kevin: finding those people, because you Kevin: had to relate, but finding those Kevin: people, where was it really Kevin: difficult what was the the hard Kevin: part from going to real estate to Kevin: brokerage because now they look at Kevin: you different Guest: because Guest: i what was the difficult thing um Guest: because Kevin: it wasn't an easy transition Guest: a good question i i think kevin Guest: you'll understand this it's Guest: actually you you know going from Guest: your little business and how you Guest: operate it to something much larger Guest: and so all of a sudden now I'm the Guest: chief bottle washer right I've got Guest: to do everything and I have to Guest: understand operations I have to Guest: understand the finance part I have Guest: to go through budgets I have Guest: to really understand where the Guest: company is going and how it's going Guest: to grow and at the time that I took Guest: over for my mom I always say my Guest: mom's brilliant because she wanted Guest: to partner with me Guest: in 2007 does everybody remember Guest: 2007 it was a phenomenal like you Guest: know our market was going crazy and Guest: everybody was making money the oil Guest: and gas world was amazing and then Guest: what happened Guest: 2008 happened so in 2007 she Guest: partnered with me we had a Guest: shareholders agreement she sold my Guest: you know her company her 50 of the Guest: company to me for x amount and uh Guest: we're winning all day long Guest: And then 2008 happened in the Guest: market, like, you know, everything, Guest: you know, across North America and Guest: globally, right? Guest: Everybody got impacted by what was Guest: happening. And so at that point, Guest: we're like, oh, my God, like, we Guest: have to restructure the company. Guest: And that was my first year as being Guest: broker and owner. Guest: And so then we had to, we actually Guest: got some outside help and Guest: restructured the company in a way Guest: that we thought would be good. And Guest: I think the realtors really Guest: responded to that well. Guest: And then I had some opportunities Guest: and I was able to buy some Guest: companies along the way that really Guest: helped in obviously building our Guest: company profitability and Guest: operations. Guest: But I mean, I was flying by the Guest: seat of my pants, you know, so I Guest: didn't know what I was doing. Kevin: And it's interesting because here Kevin: you are, 2007 goes into the eight. Kevin: All of a sudden, Kevin: bought the company, X amount of Kevin: dollars. Everything's going. Then Kevin: all of a sudden, bang. And then all Kevin: of a sudden, you're thrown into it Kevin: now as an entrepreneur going in Kevin: there and you're thinking well Kevin: everything's been going good mom's Kevin: been doing really well then all of Kevin: a sudden here I am and what yes the Kevin: market's Kevin: there like that's got to take a Kevin: toll on your mental mentally and Kevin: the companies that you took over Kevin: because when people jump out of Kevin: businesses like so the market goes Kevin: down this is a great time Kevin: to buy so you either expand or you Kevin: die okay grow or you die there's no Kevin: You lose money or you gain it. Kevin: staying stagnant so when you Kevin: start going into these other Kevin: businesses like all entrepreneurs Kevin: it's like all right what's the Kevin: value you where can we go right now Kevin: that the market's going down versus Kevin: it's not a restructure it's a Kevin: growth strategy Guest: because Guest: Yeah, I think it's a good point, Kevin: all of a sudden it's like okay how Guest: yeah. Kevin: are we going to grow during this Kevin: downturn we know someone's going to Kevin: buy a house eventually somehow some Kevin: way that it's going to going to Kevin: change but watching the Kevin: opportunities come into play you Kevin: must have seen a lot of great Kevin: opportunities Kevin: come across your door and then say Kevin: all right how do i take that next Kevin: step because it's got to be scary Kevin: as an entrepreneur Guest: it was so scary i i you like Guest: vulnerability on this show i will Guest: tell you that i went into full i i Guest: didn't realize that um i was Guest: susceptible to panic attacks Guest: but i you know my the first company Guest: that i bought i i remember meeting Guest: with the leaders at royal page Guest: canada to talk to them about it and Guest: um we met at a conference um a Guest: little while before um Guest: I put pen to paper with this broker Guest: and I fully went into a panic Guest: attack that I didn't know what it Guest: was. But I couldn't, if anybody's Guest: had a panic attack, they know you Guest: can't make choices, you Guest: can't make decisions, you're kind Guest: of stuck. And I had no idea what to Guest: do. And it was an interesting Guest: experience to live through. I mean, Guest: it was fine, obviously, and I got Guest: through it, but I didn't know Guest: know how to manage that and so you Guest: know obviously came out the other Guest: end of it and this gentleman and I Guest: you know put together we would meet Guest: at the keg this is what he'd love Guest: to do so we'd meet at Guest: meat the cake Guest: the keg we talk about um me buying Guest: his business over a bottle of red Guest: wine and so we built it all on like Guest: one piece of paper and then took it Guest: to our respective lawyers and just Guest: did it right and um Guest: And I made the agreement based on Guest: something I'd heard on how other Guest: brokerages buy other companies. It Guest: was something I'd heard, and I'm Guest: like, I think I can do this. And so Guest: we built it all over many meetings Guest: oh Guest: at the keg Guest: over bottles of red wine. Kevin: my gosh so you sat there now now Kevin: with panic attack before this just Kevin: before this correct Guest: and having Guest: It was just before we signed pen to Guest: paper. I'd already been meeting Guest: with him. We'd already agreed that Guest: this was going to happen. Kevin: It was Kevin: a Guest: just, yeah. Yeah, so it was, I Guest: wow and Guest: think it was weeks, just a few Guest: weeks before it was going to Guest: happen. Guest: I can't remember exactly, but, Guest: yeah. Kevin: then so you here you are you're Kevin: going through a panic attack Kevin: because i want to dig down a little Guest: No, no, I knew you would. Kevin: bit deeper yeah because the thing Kevin: about it because my listeners and Kevin: guys are listening this and then Kevin: looking at and experience a panic Kevin: attack and say Say, okay, you're, Kevin: oh, my God, I can't do anything. Kevin: And then the first question is, how Kevin: do you get out of that? Like, how Kevin: did you recognize it? Because now Kevin: you're going into a big deal. Kevin: Like, you're looking at how to grow Kevin: and go to the next one. It's like, Kevin: all of a sudden, you went from zero Kevin: to hero, like, overnight. Kevin: So the panic attack was kind of Kevin: like the precursor to blast off. Kevin: yeah Guest: Is there anybody who would Guest: i don't know i guess anybody who's Guest: been through some sort of like Guest: anxiety or panic attack would Guest: understand you're you just feel Guest: like you can't move forward somehow Guest: and it's usually only for a short Guest: period of time and i realized um Guest: you know i'm sure you'll dig into Guest: this later but you know many years Guest: later my first husband died and um Guest: for a year straight Guest: I'd go through many panic attacks Guest: but by then I knew what they were Guest: right and I knew how long it was. Guest: they'd last typically and I and Guest: talking to my mom actually she had Guest: suffered them as well in her Guest: lifetime so obviously she passed on Guest: that lovely gene to me and so Guest: through talking to her about it Guest: as well I learned that if I just Guest: took some deep breaths and centered Guest: myself that it was just you just Guest: had to move through it and so it's Guest: yeah it's for me they take about 20 Guest: minutes other than the Guest: first time I did it because it was Guest: just really something I didn't know Guest: what was going on and so it lasted Guest: much longer and I might have dealt Guest: with it by drinking a mug of vodka Guest: because I didn't Guest: know what to do poor poor decision Kevin: A mug Guest: of vodka. Guest: kevin Kevin: poor decision this Kevin: Mug Guest: was years ago Guest: of, yeah, Kevin: a mug of vodka, Guest: wow, okay. Kevin: Not that there's anything wrong Kevin: with that, hypothetically speaking. Kevin: yeah yeah Kevin: So, okay, so here you are, the Kevin: panic, and I really, what was Kevin: interesting, because I got to hear Kevin: is all of a sudden, that 10, 20 Kevin: seconds of sit up and just breathe Kevin: yourself Kevin: through it relax yourself and Kevin: understand that you're in it was Kevin: that a point that actually changed Kevin: for you like you really practice Kevin: that Guest: did i think that i'm not Guest: so Guest: sure that i had any other panic Guest: attacks so that so this was 2012 i Guest: think when i bought my first Guest: company and that was the first time Guest: i'd had that experience and it Guest: wasn't until after that i kind Guest: of realized what happened and what Guest: you shouldn't do when you're going Guest: through a panic attack which which Guest: is drink a mug of vodka. Perhaps, Guest: you know, maybe go for a walk or do Guest: something that's distracting that's Guest: probably more physical than it is, Guest: you know, by trying to drown it. Guest: you're Guest: And... Kevin: in that whole system of I got to do Kevin: this which is the opposite of it Guest: Yeah, and then I think, you know, I Guest: think the years went by and when my Guest: husband passed in 2016 Guest: was when I noticed them again Guest: because I didn't... that's a lot of Guest: trauma to your body to experience Guest: somebody close to you passing. Guest: And so, you know, even if you don't Guest: want it to happen, things do happen Guest: to you, right? If someone close Guest: passes and it does create some Guest: trauma to your body, Guest: and even if you try to resist it, Guest: it typically does. So the best Guest: thing you can do is move through Guest: it. And for anybody who's lost Guest: someone close to them, it takes Guest: about at least a year of all the Guest: firsts, right? Guest: the first birthday the first Guest: Christmas the first you know all Guest: the all the dates and I would find Guest: myself standing in Ikea which by Guest: the way I can't stand going to Ikea Guest: because there's all these Guest: different ways there's no way out Guest: of that place I feel like I'm Guest: trapped and that's actually a Guest: feeling of how I feel when I'd go Guest: through panic attacks is that I Guest: remember standing in the middle of Guest: Ikea with my mom and I couldn't Guest: move she's like what's happening Guest: and I said I think I'm Guest: having a panic attack I can't Guest: decide which way to go I don't want Guest: to be here and I remember her just Guest: kind of holding me and saying Guest: Corinne just breathe you know Guest: you'll work you'll get through Guest: it and like I said it takes about Guest: 15 -20 minutes and then okay I Guest: think I can get through this I Guest: never want to go to Ikea again I Guest: think the last time I went was with Guest: my my new husband Tom um Guest: and he's made it okay for me to Guest: shop in those places again Kevin: He won't put you in the corner. Guest: that's true unable to know which Guest: direction to go yeah Guest: Wow. Kevin: And then, so going through that one Kevin: year after your husband had died Kevin: and opening that up, like, the Kevin: firsts, Kevin: and then opening up to people, Kevin: like, so other people when we talk Kevin: through the Shed Talk, like, people Kevin: that have lost loved ones to Kevin: understand that it's okay to mourn Kevin: and get through that. Like, how did Kevin: you get through that? Like, what Kevin: was your greatest strength through Kevin: that? Guest: don't laugh i probably told you Guest: this i don't know if you'll Guest: remember but um Guest: so a lot of things happened that Guest: year um and in fact um there was a Guest: a sister company company, Royal Guest: LePage Foothills, who unfortunately Guest: met their demise. Guest: And it was, again, 2015 was a tough Guest: market, right? That was our other, Guest: you know, oil and gas world blew Guest: up, and so did we in the real Guest: estate market. And unfortunately, Guest: there was a number of real estate Guest: companies that Guest: were struggling. And so this one Guest: company, they blew up, and about a Guest: third of those agents came came to Guest: us. And so I remember canceling Guest: our, our Christmas and me staying Guest: home and basically Guest: booking appointments from six in Guest: the morning to 11 o 'clock at night Guest: for like two weeks straight until Guest: we could get those people Guest: onboarded. And, um, you know, Guest: beyond that too, my husband and I Guest: were kind of going through a little Guest: bit of some rough patches as well, Guest: but we, you know, we made it Guest: through that year. And, um, and Guest: then when he passed, it was, yeah, Guest: it was a traumatizing event. Guest: so I stayed at my parents for about Guest: a week and then I went home and Guest: started like reorganizing my whole Guest: house because I can't stay just Guest: passive like I need to just do Guest: things and then I thought Guest: well what am I going to do now I Guest: mean sure I have this company to Guest: run and that's really distracting Guest: and great but I thought you know Guest: what I'm going to ask I'm going to Guest: ask the Googles right let's Guest: ask the internet what someone Guest: should do when their husband dies Guest: and so I did I like did a search in Guest: I probably told you this. Guest: Google and said, what do you do Guest: after your spouse dies? What should Guest: you do? And so it actually Guest: responded to me and it said, you Guest: know what, this will be your next Guest: year of your life will be just Guest: about you. It's probably the only Guest: time in your life that you're Guest: allowed to be a little bit selfish. Guest: And I would suggest making a list Guest: of all the things that you want to Guest: do. And so that's what I I did. And Guest: so I booked a yoga retreat. I took Guest: a writing course. Guest: What else did I do? I went on some Guest: trips, you know, so I had a big Guest: long list of things I wanted to do. Guest: And because that's what Google told Guest: me to do. And I think it really Guest: helps, right? Because it got me to Guest: focus on Guest: this list of things I wanted to Guest: accomplish. So Kevin: it's interesting because here Kevin: you're Googling Guest: not Kevin: AI -ing it. Guest: no ai was not a thing back Guest: All right, here's AI. Kevin: then right this is this Kevin: no, totally not. Guest: is 2016 so yeah Kevin: And then so here you are, you're Kevin: Googling this, and then you're Kevin: going in it. And now you have to Kevin: create action because, you know, Kevin: yeah Kevin: OK, am I going to have am I having Kevin: gonna have am i having the victim Kevin: the the victim statement? Kevin: statement oh for me i just lost my Kevin: Oh, poor me. I just lost my Kevin: husband or okay wait i gotta Kevin: husband. Or, OK, wait, I got to get Kevin: myself through this because I got Kevin: to I got people to lead. I have all Kevin: these people that are that are Kevin: counting on me to be the greatest Kevin: hero possible. Kevin: And I need to be accountable for Kevin: them as entrepreneurs. It's kind of Kevin: like you can't sit back. you have Kevin: to go through it and succeed like Kevin: that transition point where did you Kevin: find that Kevin: courage at that moment to say okay Kevin: and to be selfish okay that i need Kevin: to lead because it's it comes to a Kevin: point where there's dictating and Kevin: yes i Kevin: then there's leading Guest: okay so Guest: agree Kevin: where does that come into play for Kevin: you because you had to make that Kevin: defining moment Guest: what i do fulfills me so much um Guest: that when i went back to work after Guest: a week or so i it brought me joy Guest: right i i felt supported by Guest: all the the people that i worked Guest: with um it gave me focus um and it Guest: also just filled my cup and so Guest: leading to me um and volunteer Guest: leadership i've always been Guest: involved in volunteer leadership Guest: those things really hit me in the Guest: heart and it's something that I get Guest: really excited about so going back Guest: to work I know a lot of people that Guest: might not be what they want to do Guest: or need to do and I Guest: respect that it's what I needed to Guest: do and I needed to go back and be a Guest: leader and show resiliency and Guest: focus on the people because that's Guest: what makes me happy Kevin: It's interesting because you just Kevin: said it, and a lot of people when Kevin: well Kevin: they go out there, Kevin: uh Kevin: and I'm going to talk about older Kevin: guys too, is finding purpose and Kevin: meaning at that particular point, Kevin: but you just made a comment there Kevin: about volunteer leadership and how Kevin: important that was to you as Kevin: all Kevin: important it is to other people. Kevin: Give me some examples about Kevin: volunteer leadership. Well, I'm Guest: my life and and i you know i give a Guest: lot of credit to my mom because i Guest: she really Guest: supported that um when i first got Guest: into real estate she said you Guest: should get involved right don't Guest: just you know sit back and be you Guest: know the armchair kind of Guest: a chair, so Guest: politician person complaining Guest: about what's going on in your Guest: industry get out there and get Guest: involved and get your hands into it Guest: because that's when you can have Guest: influence uh and i mean it goes Guest: back to even when i was in Guest: university um i volunteered i Guest: volunteered for the sheriff king Guest: home for a couple of years that and Guest: And it opens your eyes, I think, to Guest: different people in different Guest: circumstances. Guest: If anybody doesn't know, that's a Guest: YWCA emergency shelter for people Guest: fleeing domestic violence, women Guest: and children. Guest: And, you know, I wanted to make a Guest: difference. And so from there, when Guest: I was paid by a Guest: I got into real estate, I Guest: volunteered for the Cal Real Estate Guest: Board. Guest: I was on their social committee, Guest: Kevin, because that's, you know, I Guest: like to get involved in events. And Guest: so that was fun. and naturally then Guest: they as soon as you're one of these Guest: people that says yes to a lot of Guest: volunteer Guest: leadership is that you get invited Guest: to do more and uh then eventually i Guest: was on the cal real estate board Guest: board of directors and in fact i Guest: was president in 25 2015 as well so Guest: it was a pretty Guest: crazy year um 2015 and then i've Guest: time. Guest: also i think you mentioned in your Guest: in your introduction um i've Guest: I've been in Pillar 9, which is our Guest: one Alberta MLS system. So the Guest: technology for those that are in Guest: the public, that realtor .ca, Guest: you're familiar with that, where Guest: you go on to look for listings. Guest: Pillar 9 is the database behind Guest: realtor .ca. So typically that's Guest: only going to Guest: owned by the real estate boards. Guest: In Alberta, what happened was a Guest: number of real estate boards got Guest: together and said, hey, let's start Guest: a new company. Guest: We'll be shareholders in that Guest: company, and we'll have one MLS Guest: system. So there's one MLS system Guest: across Alberta except for Edmonton, Guest: although we do have some data Guest: sharing with Edmonton. Guest: So it's a technology company, and I Guest: was asked to actually come on that Guest: board when it first started as Guest: chair, and then I was chair twice Guest: Yes. Guest: because they needed that kind of Guest: – but, you know, I love it. I Guest: love being involved, and I love Guest: having a little bit of influence Guest: and turning the dial a little bit, Guest: so. Kevin: And it's interesting when you talk Kevin: about volunteering because here you Kevin: are, CEO, you're the president, and Kevin: then you're volunteering for these Kevin: organizations, Kevin: and a lot of people, they don't Kevin: realize, in organizations that you Kevin: volunteer with, and you could be a Kevin: laborer, you can be anything out Kevin: there, and when you volunteer, you Kevin: don't realize Kevin: they maybe have the volunteer that Kevin: they become, and it's not Kevin: necessarily present of that area, Kevin: but they would be giving advice to Kevin: presidents and CEOs to do this, to Kevin: do the delivery. So you get to do a Kevin: role play reverse Kevin: Because the CEOs, take you as an Kevin: example, the president, may be Kevin: doing menial tasks, but then all of Kevin: a sudden, who's to do menial tasks? Kevin: Here's now the president of it. So Kevin: they get to communicate with CEOs Kevin: and have experience sharing with Kevin: volunteering, because you'll have Kevin: your highs and higher people, lower Kevin: people, and I use that tongue -in Kevin: -cheek, lower people. Kevin: but it's a really building a Kevin: purpose and meaning that you get to Kevin: interact with and connect with Kevin: great leaders. Kevin: And here's another thing that I Kevin: didn't mention this, but as also Kevin: the president of EO. Guest: yes i was president of eo in 2022 i Guest: think yeah you Kevin: And did an absolutely amazing job. Kevin: So everything that you touch, and Kevin: then we talk about, you've touched Kevin: this and you've gone in, out of all Kevin: the volunteer work that you've Kevin: done, okay, and organizations that Kevin: you've been on, i don't know if Kevin: and I'm not going to say which is Kevin: those ones Kevin: the best one, it's like which was Guest: yeah Kevin: the most challenging that you Kevin: really had to think about that like Kevin: oh there's a lot of work to this Guest: and Guest: I don't think I can say that Kevin: work in a good way not as oh i nine Kevin: nine to five Guest: there's one that was most Guest: challenging because each Guest: organization is so different. Guest: The only for -profit organization I Guest: worked for was Pillar 9, Guest: or was on their board. Everything Guest: else has been mostly non -profits. Guest: I've been on a city board. I was on Guest: something called Doors Open YYC, Guest: and it was a little bit grassroots Guest: but we worked with the city of Guest: calgary and so that was a totally Guest: different kind of organization when Guest: you're working with someone well an Guest: entity like the city of calgary Guest: they provided a ton of support for Guest: us but also too you know it's Guest: challenging when you're Guest: dealing with um lots of red tape Guest: and you know politics in general Guest: but you know they were great Guest: grateful Guest: partners and then what else have I Guest: done you know even EO is a very Guest: different structure I would say it Guest: it probably lacks the most Guest: governance of any board Guest: that I've sat on but I get it Guest: because it's it's they're all Guest: volunteers who are entrepreneurs Guest: and they're all trying to operate Guest: their own business day to day and Guest: you know trying to get them all on Guest: the same page and working as one Guest: one Guest: organization is not always easy. Guest: But I would say that was Guest: challenging in a lot of ways Guest: because I was used to working on Guest: boards with lots of governance in Guest: place and then trying to put that Guest: in. Well, you were on my board. And Guest: so trying to bring that into EO was Guest: very hard Guest: because I'm not sure, no offense to Guest: Global, Guest: is that I'm not sure they Guest: understand governance. Not on what Guest: yeah Guest: your typical board would look like. Kevin: and no and i know when you're on Kevin: the board and then you're a Kevin: president and then you'd Kevin: voluntold me to come Guest: come on the board, Guest: for sap Guest: which is, Kevin: which is i love the voluntold Kevin: because someone's going hey you're Kevin: going to be on okay i guess i am Kevin: it, huh? Kevin: okay thank you and not and for me Kevin: watching you okay Kevin: Because you go on to all these Kevin: boards, you're learning all the Kevin: time. Like you would be doing, so Kevin: you're on the board committee, then Kevin: governance, like to learn how to be Kevin: in the governance, how to be on the Kevin: board. So you've already had that Kevin: training behind you. Kevin: Now, here's an interesting Kevin: question. Kevin: You started, you had Foothills came Kevin: in and they were making a change Kevin: because you're getting all their Kevin: realtors over, so they're coming to Guest: Well, about 30 % of them, Kevin: you. Kevin: Yeah, coming over and they're Kevin: making change. Kevin: Now, the markets are shifting, how Kevin: the markets are shifting, but what Kevin: happens is everyone's getting older Kevin: now realtors there's there's some Kevin: ancient realtors that have been Kevin: there a long time some newbie Kevin: Did Guest: you just say ancient? Kevin: realtors yes ancient i date Guest: If anyone is listening to this, Guest: myself okay Guest: This is, you know, an older, more Guest: senior realtor. Do not take offense Guest: to what Kevin just said. Kevin: okay Guest: i Guest: I'll tell Kevin: use myself the old guy like me the Kevin: old boys club and it's interesting Guest: Yes. Kevin: because here and i look at it so at Kevin: 50 here i am 58 years old and then Kevin: what happens is we become wisdom at Kevin: at 58 for some reason here it is Kevin: years old. Kevin: Yes, yes, yes. It's Kevin: hey look at this Guest: like i think i Guest: the gray hair, Kevin. Kevin: totally but what's interesting is Kevin: I told you. Kevin: that now here's guys in real estate Kevin: okay been there a long time and Kevin: then you've created this great team Kevin: where do you recognize the leaders Kevin: in the real estate guys like each Kevin: individual Kevin: and where where do you see their Kevin: down to side like example like um Kevin: burnout Guest: Okay. Kevin: The guy's going out and recognizing Kevin: guys burning out and recognize it Kevin: it. Kevin: because a lot of people don't Kevin: recognize burnout like you talked Kevin: about out here it is anxiety and Kevin: going okay this is a part of it you Kevin: recognized it but real estate's Kevin: tough okay Guest: you're Guest: It's not for everyone. Kevin: only as good as your last year Guest: so Guest: Yeah. Kevin: you sell one year there's there's Kevin: your year your sales are this then Kevin: it's like okay start all over again Kevin: like it's a tough it's a tough gig Kevin: and how many realtors get in Guest: about Guest: Oh, geez, yeah. So if 100 realtors Guest: join today, in three years, there Guest: will be about 15 to 20 left. Kevin: That's amazing. Kevin: it's Guest: Yeah. So it's not for everyone. And Guest: I think a lot of people come into Guest: our industry expecting it, number Guest: one, to be easier than they think Guest: it is. Guest: Everyone thinks that they're going Guest: one thing um Guest: to be more successful than the next Guest: person. Guest: Even though I mentor people and I Guest: say, listen, like you need to give Guest: yourself some grace, give yourself Guest: some time to build a career. Guest: It's not going to happen overnight, Guest: like any entrepreneur. Right. And I Guest: think that that's a big part of it Guest: is that people don't come into our Guest: business treating it like a Guest: business. Guest: You know, so all of a sudden now Guest: you are, you know, Kevin Guest: Incorporated. Right. Right. So how Guest: are you going to it? And especially Guest: if you came from like a corporate Guest: nine to five job, all of a sudden Guest: now you have zero structure. Guest: You have to make your own schedule. Guest: You have to go out there and talk Guest: to as many people as possible about Guest: real estate and try to convert Guest: those people to your clients. Guest: That's not going to happen Guest: overnight. And I try to tell people Guest: wouldn't matter what kind of Guest: business you started. You should Guest: always start with your where your Guest: clients are going to come from. Guest: That should be where you're Guest: thinking. Because if you have no Guest: idea what that looks like, you're Guest: going to have a tough time, right? Guest: I mean, there's certain things Guest: So Guest: that obviously we train the Guest: realtors to think about, but a lot Guest: of them just didn't really expect Guest: what they needed to do. Kevin: it's interesting. You say they Kevin: really have to understand where the Kevin: clients are coming from. all All Kevin: right, let's talk a little bit Kevin: about that one. sure Kevin: What does that mean? Guest: uh so Guest: when we're thinking about a Guest: business like your like spindle Guest: stairs and railings for instance Guest: you know you you i know where your Guest: business is coming from and you Guest: probably when you started you had Guest: to think about that okay well you Guest: know i've got to develop some Guest: builder relationships for instance Guest: right Guest: or am i going to try to go out Guest: there and find renovation work or Guest: where are my clients going going to Guest: come from? And typically, most Guest: businesses have one to three, at Guest: the most, I call them Guest: buckets, but like buckets of Guest: clients that they would potentially Guest: connect with. Guest: And so just like real estate, you Guest: should be thinking about, well, Guest: where is my business going to come Guest: from? Do I have a big network of Guest: people I know? Am I very good at Guest: connecting? So potentially your Guest: sphere of influence, Guest: right so maybe the people you know Guest: but a lot of times in our business Guest: maybe other businesses Guest: your friends want to stand back and Guest: they want to say I want to look and Guest: see how well is this person going Guest: to do yes they want to support you Guest: but they don't want to be the ones Guest: being guinea pigs right they want Guest: to you know find somebody else to Guest: be the guinea pig and so it takes a Guest: while Guest: to earn their their trust and their Guest: business and so then okay so it's Guest: not going to be my sphere of Guest: influence right away. Okay. So Guest: maybe it's going to be, I'm going Guest: to become an expert at open Guest: houses because typically people Guest: that come into open houses, there's Guest: a good chance that there's a reason Guest: why they're there, right? They're Guest: looking for, some are looking for Guest: design ideas, I guess. Guest: And some of them are being nosy Guest: neighbors. We like to call them, Guest: but a lot of times people are Guest: coming because they're genuinely Guest: interested in real estate. At some Guest: point, they either want to buy or Guest: they want to sell or they want to Guest: do both. Guest: Okay, so, you know, that could be a Guest: place that I could get my clients. Guest: Or maybe I'm really good at Guest: networking or volunteer leadership, Guest: right? I built my business on Guest: volunteer leadership, Guest: not because I went and did Guest: volunteer leadership to get Guest: business. It just becomes organic. Guest: And so you've got to think about, Guest: okay, so where is my business going Guest: to come from? And I better be Guest: thinking about that before I even Guest: get started. Kevin: that's interesting it's kind of Kevin: like uh selling without selling so Kevin: setting yourself up say i'm not Kevin: there to ask for the sale i'm there Kevin: to show you who i am so i can Kevin: bring it to you later on and say oh Kevin: here's corinne you know watch Kevin: you're actually in the real estate Kevin: i had no idea you were that and Kevin: then networking properly through Kevin: that part so Kevin: Well, Guest: if you become the expert, right, Guest: Kevin, so if I learn as much about Guest: the real estate market as I can, Guest: even as being new to the business, Guest: people will look to me to get Guest: information, right? Guest: And then organically through Guest: intentional real estate Guest: conversations, people then will Guest: gravitate towards you because you Guest: are the person providing them some Guest: good knowledge and some good Guest: expertise, Guest: and so you start earning their Guest: trust. Guest: right? Like if I want to know about Guest: stairs, I'm going to come talk to Guest: you. If I want to know about how to Guest: create a podcast, I want to come to Guest: you because you've been doing it a Guest: long time. And you know, there's Guest: ways that you can learn about a Guest: business in an industry very Guest: quickly Guest: if you do the right things and, and Guest: put some intention into it. Kevin: interesting because we talk now Kevin: intentions okay and here's our Kevin: three buckets now let's go way back Kevin: now at the beginning because now Kevin: you're in the real estate side okay Kevin: selling real estate now you had to Kevin: look at the broker like the people Kevin: now because now you're Kevin: selling uh real estate people not Kevin: not the actual they're yes they're Kevin: selling the houses but now Now you Kevin: have to look at that bucket of how Guest: do i attract realtors to our Guest: you're getting those. How do you Guest: track them? Guest: business yeah is that what you're Guest: asking Guest: correct Kevin: In a roundabout way, it's like Kevin: you're my integrity keeper to help Kevin: me say it better. But yeah, because Kevin: you had to do a shift, just like Kevin: them. So how did you get those Kevin: people on board? Guest: that's a good question uh i think Guest: that part of it is uh is some Guest: intention for sure um our Our Guest: reputation is very good within the Guest: industry. I challenge anybody that Guest: I talk to, I say, go out there and Guest: ask about myself Guest: or Rollapage Benchmark and what Guest: people think in our industry about Guest: our company. And our realtors know Guest: I have high standards and I think Guest: that they appreciate that and they Guest: respect it. And so through that, Guest: I think that we attract the people Guest: that we want, right? So people that Guest: want to be professionals, that want Guest: to have success, but also Guest: appreciate high standards and doing Guest: things the right way. Guest: And we've also built a very good Guest: infrastructure of support. Guest: And so not only do we provide Guest: training and ongoing mentorship and Guest: coaching, Guest: but our staff are all trained to be Guest: a support system. Guest: And so not all companies, and that Guest: just doesn't go for real estate, Guest: only the Guest: but not all companies, I think, do Guest: a good job of really looking at Guest: their infrastructure infrastructure Guest: and seeing how, from an operational Guest: standpoint, how do we support our Guest: agents? Guest: And I did a good job of that, but Guest: Tom, my husband now, and also my Guest: director of operations, brought a Guest: whole, he joined me a couple of Guest: years ago, and he worked for Frito Guest: -Lay in operations. Guest: And so he took all his learning and Guest: brought it into our company. And I Guest: think he's done an amazing amazing Guest: job of really enriching a lot of Guest: the roles of our support staff to Guest: look at our realtors as Guest: clients and be able to provide them Guest: the support they need to run their Guest: businesses in an efficient way and Guest: to get more business. And that's Guest: our intention all day long. And Guest: those are the kinds of people we Guest: want to attract. Like I'm not, I Guest: don't hire everybody. Guest: There's lots of companies that Guest: will. We want people that are Guest: focused on making this a career, Guest: right? So don't have other full Guest: -time jobs because it's really hard Guest: to put a hundred percent into Guest: something Guest: if you're a hundred percent Guest: somewhere else Kevin: right Guest: and I and I know like I'm not Guest: saying that there aren't people out Guest: there that can figure it out but I Guest: would say most of my Realtors that Guest: have ever started with a full -time Guest: job with the Guest: intention of leaving it because I Guest: will make those exceptions that Guest: focus so hard on it will eventually Guest: just leave their other job right Guest: So while Guest: and make this their Guest: their full -time job Kevin: doing this, what's been the hardest Kevin: doing what exactly I Kevin: challenge Guest: getting Kevin: people on board? Where do you see Kevin: the challenge? Guest: think people Guest: Because they all have Kevin: totally Kevin: different characters. Everybody has Guest: yeah yeah Kevin: their own different personalities. Kevin: but what's the challenge? Kevin: I Guest: I think when people focus on too Guest: much on the costs in our business Guest: uh I think that there's always that Guest: value cost Guest: balance that has to happen and just Guest: like I when I when I sold real Guest: estate I would I would talk to to Guest: my sellers, and I'd say to them, I Guest: said, if we put the commissions Guest: aside, right, because Guest: you can find people that will do it Guest: for less. Absolutely. Guest: Totally get that. But if we put it Guest: aside, what's the other major thing Guest: I didn't have any other means. Guest: that's important in this? Because Guest: after we sign a Guest: contract, guess what? We're in a Guest: relationship. Guest: So what is that relationship going Guest: to look like? Is it transparent? Guest: Are we in a relationship where we Guest: feel comfortable talking to each Guest: other? Guest: So if you put the money part aside Guest: and you feel that you're being Guest: supported and you're being given Guest: the systems and all the things that Guest: you need to be successful, Guest: and this goes for sellers as well, Guest: sellers and buyers, is that if Guest: you're feeling supported and you Guest: feel that your realtor is working Guest: 100 % for you, Guest: not saying that money doesn't Guest: matter but within the scope of Guest: things do you not want your realtor Guest: to work their butts off for you to Guest: get the best price possible with Guest: all the means they have at Guest: their ability because if you start Guest: cutting away at their fees guess Guest: what they have to do they have to Guest: cut away at all the things that are Guest: going to support you with and Guest: that's the same with us if Guest: you start just thinking about well Guest: how can i cut you know the Guest: brokerage fees well then we have to Guest: start thinking about how we're Guest: going to cut all the services we Guest: provide we want to provide you Guest: with as many services as we can to Guest: it. Guest: make you as successful as we can Guest: right that's our goal and Guest: we don't make money unless you make Guest: money that's the way our structure Guest: Right. Guest: works and so am i going to Guest: do my best to try to help you be Guest: successful as you want to be and Guest: everybody's interpretation of Guest: success is different i never try to Guest: tell somebody what their Guest: interpretation of success is Guest: But I think that's the number one. Guest: I don't tell people we're the Guest: lowest cost brokerage out there Guest: because we're not. We're probably Guest: at the highest, right, or one of Guest: the highest. But we feel that we Guest: deliver the value and the services Guest: to really support the agent. Guest: So there are agents that we Guest: struggle with that kind of say, no, Guest: I'm going to go over here because Guest: it's costing me less. Okay, you Guest: know, that's for you for sure, Guest: right? Kevin: And it's interesting because a lot Kevin: of people don't know. So we look at Kevin: this and say, why is it called Kevin: Royal LePage Benchmark? oh Guest: okay oh um so royal we're a Guest: franchise right so we own um we own Guest: our own company but we're Guest: a franchise of royal page because Guest: we chose to join royal page about Guest: 24 years ago 25 years ago and we Guest: felt that um royal page provided Guest: the systems and support that we Guest: needed but also to Guest: to the culture, you know, and I'm Guest: very proud to say it today, is that Guest: Royal LePage is the only major Guest: brand that's wholly Canadian. And Guest: so if you're hiring a Royal LePage Guest: realtor, for instance, Guest: you know that any of the fees that Guest: they pay us or they pay Royal Guest: LePage stay in Canada. Kevin: So no United States. Guest: No. So no offense to some of my Guest: competitors that are owned by U .S. Guest: companies, companies but Guest: unfortunately the some of the fees Guest: that you pay to them um the Guest: realtors that pay Guest: those brokerages a piece of the Guest: fees may not stay in Canada right Guest: they may go to the states and so Guest: it's something that we're really Guest: proud of also too Royal LePage's Guest: mantra is helping you is what we do Guest: that's like so Canadian isn't No Kevin: it yeah Guest: doubt, eh? Kevin: But let's talk about the word Kevin: benchmark. Like, what's the purpose Kevin: of benchmark? Guest: so benchmark is the stamp that Guest: jewelers put on their works of art Guest: right so it's their stamp of Guest: excellence and so when we when we Guest: moved we were a small French we Guest: belong to a small Guest: franchise called Realty World years Guest: ago which we loved it but it was Guest: locked you in. Guest: bought by Guest: Royal LePage and we had to make the Guest: decision do we stay with Royal Guest: LePage or we go somewhere else and Guest: so my mom at the time said this is Guest: our opportunity to change her name Guest: because we're a Realty World tempo Guest: which was not a name she Guest: she chose. She had partnered with a Guest: woman who owned that company, and Guest: that woman passed away in the early Guest: 90s. My mom took over. And so when Guest: we were able to change our name, Guest: this was a name Guest: she really liked. And so we put it Guest: out to our realtors at the time, Guest: here's a couple of names, and then Guest: we had them vote on it. But she Guest: really influenced them to pick the Guest: students. Guest: It's a new benchmark. because we Guest: name Benchmark, Guest: liked the idea that we would be the Guest: standard, right? That we would be Guest: that stamp of of excellence that Guest: everybody should look at and want Guest: to be like right that we would Guest: always have Guest: this um level of excellence i Guest: already mentioned i have high Guest: standards i come by it honestly um Guest: that we would always i don't i tell Guest: my agents all the time i'm like we Guest: don't want to fall below that Guest: bar right we always want to do Guest: better than the rest and that's Guest: what i strive for it's probably the Guest: thing that is one of my deepest Guest: core values is about quality and Guest: excellence Guest: and how do we deliver on that and I Guest: want to deliver on it as a Guest: brokerage as well right that our Guest: company runs with as much Guest: excellence as we can all the time Guest: and we Guest: have and thankfully I mentioned Tom Guest: my director of operations although Guest: he and I have different Guest: personalities and it's good because Guest: we have different skill Guest: skill sets that we bring we both Guest: agree on the fact that we believe Guest: in quality we believe in excellence Guest: and and it's really important to us Kevin: And it definitely shows. Kevin: So, I wanted to go back from when Kevin: you first started in the real Kevin: estate. and it's kind of a question Kevin: i don't know if people think about Kevin: this or not or or it isn't so we Kevin: talk about inflation okay houses Kevin: back in the day Guest: okay Kevin: when you first started was how much Kevin: ballpark Kevin: Oh, Guest: hundred thousand okay Kevin: I'm Guest: trying to think what I bought my Guest: first house for. I bought it for Guest: $144 ,000, and it was an up -down Guest: so Guest: duplex in Renfrew. Guest: And it was a 50 -foot lot, which Guest: people are probably choking on Guest: right now. It was like 50 by 125, I Guest: think, and I bought it for $144 Guest: ,000. Guest: So that was 1997, 97 or 98, Guest: something like that. Kevin: now here's the question so in 1997 Kevin: i was able to buy a property for Kevin: 143 thousand dollars you're the Kevin: real estate person what was the Kevin: commission was it like a seven and Kevin: So 7 % up to 100 ,000, 3 % after Guest: that. Kevin: I'm just going to use that number Kevin: as a vague. Guest: I don't know what it is, but we Guest: Okay, but I do need to clarify Guest: could just... Guest: something because 7 % on the first Guest: 100 ,000 and 3 % on the balance Guest: plus GST is the full commission Guest: that's split between the buyer's Guest: requires both of those. So if Guest: brokerage and the seller's Guest: brokerage. Kevin: Correct. Guest: you're going to use that number, Guest: that's, that's, yeah. Guest: No, perfect. Kevin: So we'll use that number as an Kevin: example because I want to actually Kevin: compare it. So we go back to 1978, Kevin: we go back then. Kevin: 1978. Kevin: Or whatever, whatever that date. So Kevin: we're going to go back to that date Kevin: and then we go to where we are Kevin: today. day that same house is Kevin: probably worth about say let's say Kevin: a million dollars we'll just say Kevin: that Guest: It's not worth that much, but yes, Kevin: ballpark ballpark what would it Guest: okay. Kevin: Walmart, Walmart. Guest: That house probably would be worth Guest: about 800 ,000, yeah. Kevin: 800 ,000 okay so a couple hundred a Guest: Well, sorry. Kevin: little bit a hundred thousand Guest: a bit but Kevin: the question is it's interesting so Kevin: we have inflation that grows that Kevin: goes from zero here milk is this Kevin: this goes up inflation everything Kevin: cost of living goes up and up but Kevin: the interesting part is that here Kevin: we are in real estate seven and Kevin: three back then and we're We're Kevin: still seven and three today. Kevin: Did they make more money back then Kevin: than versus today? Yes, costs are Kevin: going up. Like, we didn't have AI. Kevin: We don't have any of those Kevin: technology, the basis here. Was Kevin: there more real estate people back Kevin: then, okay, as a trade? Kevin: And I'm going to use it as a trade. Kevin: I'm going to say it differently. Kevin: Because the numbers never changed. Kevin: Yes, the value of the house has Kevin: gone up. But as the brokerage, Kevin: talking about your brokerage, the Kevin: value of a brokerage today and the Kevin: value of a brokerage back then, Kevin: you can't even compare the two like Kevin: you guys have had so much more Kevin: value Guest: Yeah, I mean, technology, Guest: I mean, the big thing that's Guest: happened, there's so many Guest: variables. Guest: So people could argue, oh, well, Guest: you guys are making way more money Guest: now because house prices have gone Guest: up. Sure, you could argue that. Guest: But there are many other things Guest: that have happened as well. Guest: Let's talk about the cost of Guest: everything. Guest: Cost of groceries, putting gas in Guest: our car, all the things. So as a Guest: realtor, your cost of living has Guest: also gone up exponentially. Guest: And also what has really changed Guest: from the time I was a realtor to Guest: today is the amount of money Guest: realtors spend on marketing. Guest: So of course, yes, social media Guest: doesn't have to cost you anything. Guest: There's lots of things that don't Guest: have to cost you a lot of money, Guest: but there are a lot of things that Guest: do. Guest: And I mean, if you're a realtor Guest: that is going to be incredibly Guest: professional, you're going to buy, Guest: you know, get professional photos Guest: done, make sure that if we have to, Guest: because our regulator tells us Guest: to, we have to do RMS, which are Guest: the residential measurement Guest: standards. We have to provide Guest: those. So typically, most realtors Guest: are hiring measuring companies to Guest: do floor plans. Guest: So that's another expense. And Guest: then, of course, what's really Guest: attractive for people today are Guest: videos. Guest: And so think about that. We talked Guest: about editing. So, you know, the Guest: cost of getting a video done and Guest: all the editing, there's a cost to Guest: that as well. Guest: Um, so I would say relatively Guest: speaking, um, yes, uh, we can make Guest: a good living, but I would say Guest: the majority of, of agents, um, Guest: like I think across Canada, I think Guest: the average number of deals that an Guest: agent does in a year is like six or Guest: seven. that's it. Guest: Yeah. Yeah. Guest: And so, I mean, that's not, I don't Guest: know how people survive on that Guest: unless you're selling, like you're Guest: selling sunset and know, in that Guest: year, but there's a lot of part Guest: -time realtors and yes, the number Guest: you asked about the Guest: number of agents. So when I Guest: started, there was probably about 3 Guest: ,800, but the population of, of Guest: Calgary too is, um, under a million Guest: people. It was about 700, 800 ,000. Guest: Um, now of course, Guest: yes, we have a lot more agents Guest: probably, um, hovering around 7 Guest: ,000, um, 8 ,000, maybe I haven't Guest: looked at it but uh also the Guest: population has exploded right so um Kevin: But it's interesting the 7 and 3's Kevin: you can't Kevin: never changed. Kevin: like as an example going to Guest: really say that because we can't Guest: nine and two oh Guest: say that there's we're not allowed Guest: yeah Guest: to say it's against Guest: the competition act we can't say Guest: that there are standards of of um Guest: what we charge um Kevin: yeah Kevin: and that's i'm just using that like Kevin: it could be Guest: whatever that number Guest: like yeah Guest: is kind and and i would say there Guest: are realtors that charge less and Guest: there's some realtors that charge Guest: more and it probably depends on Guest: their standard of service right you Guest: know again like i said if Guest: if you're asking a realtor or Guest: realtors delivering on a much lower Guest: cost generally they can't then Guest: unless you're doing so many Guest: provide the same amount of service Guest: it's impossible you'd run yourself Guest: into the ground right unless you're Guest: doing so many transactions that Guest: transactions Guest: somehow it's paying for itself but Guest: and especially Guest: you know that's that's Guest: a very difficult model to keep up Kevin: and that's Kevin: when you talk about like the Kevin: average is six people six houses a Kevin: year like Guest: yeah burn Guest: across Canada like I think in Guest: Alberta and Calgary it's it's Guest: higher for sure Kevin: now we talked about this before Kevin: because we're getting into that Kevin: burnouts like people that are in Kevin: this because it's it's a tough gig Kevin: like you're in it you're in it to Kevin: win it it's like no retreat okay Kevin: you focus on your real estate and Kevin: doing it you've got your three Kevin: buckets that you're Kevin: you've got to be able to find Kevin: especially first starting out Kevin: because you don't know the buckets Kevin: okay because you have to figure Kevin: that out before you start the real Kevin: estate like are you a connector or Kevin: your family in there but the whole Kevin: thing now comes into here you are Kevin: you're in it you're going Kevin: through you got anxiety you get Kevin: this now your guys have been in a Kevin: burnout rate Guest: Yeah, it's, and I would say Guest: especially for our high achievers, Guest: like in anything, right, if, so, Guest: how can I talk about this? Let's Guest: talk about how the market works, Guest: because I think that that will help Guest: understand the burnout rate in our Guest: industry. Guest: So most of our business is done Guest: between, let's say, March and June. Guest: So that's our spring market, right? Guest: And there's another little market. Guest: in september and october as Guest: There's a little market usually in Guest: the fall that runs about mid Guest: -September to mid -November. And Guest: October can be a very busy month. Guest: Sometimes I've seen it even as busy Guest: or busier than April. Guest: But if you think about it, if a Guest: realtor is working, so there's the Guest: lead up time to the spring market. Guest: So, you know, over Christmas and Guest: into that first month of January Guest: and February, the realtors are Guest: doing as much as they can to create Guest: connections and connect with people Guest: to, it's called, Guest: you know, nurturing our potential Guest: clients. and creating a pipeline so Guest: that we know when the spring market Guest: comes around that hopefully a lot Guest: of those people will buy or sell Guest: with us. Guest: And so now, if we think that the Guest: majority of our business occurs Guest: between those months, can you Guest: imagine what a high -achieving Guest: realtor is going to feel like by Guest: the time June or July comes around? Guest: They are tired, right? They've Guest: worked so hard during those months Guest: to try to do as much business as Guest: possible. Guest: probably barely taken a breather, Guest: right? Because they need to answer Guest: all the calls. They need to be Guest: there. Guest: Even now, today, the best part Guest: about technology and the worst part Guest: of technology, Guest: it used to be that I could go on a Guest: vacation when I was selling real Guest: estate, hand it over to one of my Guest: colleagues and say, answer my phone Guest: for me, right? You don't do that Guest: anymore. Guest: Very rarely, a realtor will go away Guest: and their phones are right there. Guest: They can do business right there. Guest: So are they actually taking a break Guest: They actually do business so easily Guest: from the business? Guest: No. I mean, our world has become so Guest: instant and that need to answer the Guest: that in that need to Guest: phone at all costs. Guest: I think the high achievers that Guest: try to do it, Guest: don't take intentional breaks from Guest: people and from their business burn Guest: out, right? Guest: Right. And so by the time the July Guest: comes around, you know, a lot of Guest: them are looking for some reprieve. Guest: Right. And it's tough. And I mean, Guest: I know even just anecdotally, some Guest: of my agents, we talked about, you Guest: know, the way that I went through a Guest: panic. Guest: I remember one of my realtors, he Guest: suffered from, oh, my God, Corinne, Guest: I can't even turn on my computer. Guest: I can't turn on my laptop because Guest: it's just I'm frozen. chosen. Guest: That's, you know, just couldn't do Guest: it anymore. Guest: And so, you know, at that point, Guest: you're going to see Kelp, right? Guest: You know, going to see your doctor Guest: or maybe, I don't know, probably a Guest: lot of realtors have therapists. I Guest: don't know. But, you know, it's one Guest: of these Guest: things. And, you know, again, the Guest: best part about our business, the Guest: worst part are people, right? Like Guest: some people bring you joy and Guest: you're so happy to work with them. Guest: And then some people, Guest: you know they're going through so Guest: much stress that it can bring out Guest: the worst in people and so that Guest: that stressful client you don't Guest: want to take on all their problems Guest: but you do and just like I don't Guest: know how actually therapists do it Guest: you know they go home at the end of Guest: the day and how do they let Guest: like Guest: go of all the things that they've Guest: heard all day long the same with us Guest: I mean I could tell you billions of Guest: stories about clients that have Guest: gone through a lot of trauma um Guest: people maybe not Guest: totally well and um i have had you Guest: know we've had clients that have Guest: died while we were working with Guest: them right there's so many things Guest: that happen when you're dealing Guest: with people and how do you Guest: let go of that especially in our Guest: business which has this reputation Guest: for being 24 7 which by the the way Guest: I'm really happy that the Gen Z and Guest: even our millennials don't treat it Guest: so much like that, Guest: that they actually try to put up Guest: boundaries and say, you know what, Guest: after nine o 'clock at night or 10 Guest: o 'clock at night, I'm not Guest: answering my phone. Right. Guest: Whatever's happening can happen Guest: tomorrow. You know, and I think Guest: it's great. I mean, we used to Guest: write my back in the day when we Guest: used to have, you know, landlines. Guest: My mom, when she was selling real Guest: estate full time, Guest: we'd have clients phoning our house Guest: right because you didn't have cell Guest: phones and so people would phone Guest: our house non -stop it's and it was Guest: this whole thing you'd put your Guest: your home phone number Guest: on business cards and put 24 7 you Guest: know so people calling till like Guest: midnight one in the morning right Guest: so anyway so Kevin: that's interesting because gen z's Kevin: okay and then you're talking about Kevin: this because you came when you're Kevin: coming in then you're you're you're Kevin: on you're on call all the time and Kevin: then all of a sudden they come into Kevin: play that generation comes into Kevin: play and says no no no wait a Kevin: second it's Kevin: nine o 'clock how was that to you Kevin: your organization as a whole going Kevin: whoa I've never seen that before Kevin: because it didn't happen overnight Kevin: it was slowly gradually come in Kevin: because I get from my experience Kevin: from my guys working for me after Kevin: COVID after COVID hit there was no Kevin: more working overtime time there Kevin: was no urgency to get a job done Kevin: and it changed our construction Kevin: industry totally that Kevin: it wasn't that the customer we have Kevin: to work weekends we got to work Kevin: late to get it done COVID stopped Kevin: it and said no it's okay to relax Kevin: it's okay that we're not going to Kevin: work this weekend and getting Kevin: people over time is hard when was Kevin: that change for you did I in my Kevin: industry I Kevin: noticed it right at COVID it was Kevin: like no more overtime no more work Kevin: and if when you're done It's 5 o Kevin: 'clock, you're done at 5. Guest: i would say uh to your point i Guest: think it's been gradual but i think Guest: actually when i saw technology Guest: becoming such a major part of our Guest: business and realtors didn't Guest: need to come into the office every Guest: day um that Guest: was really when i noticed a bit of Guest: a shift and so as a brokerage like Guest: we have to create opportunities for Guest: people to collaborate so you know Guest: we'll have big office events and um Guest: you know we have a actually have a Guest: summit day coming Guest: up on october 6th that will be from Guest: nine till about three o 'clock Guest: we'll have different speakers and Guest: you know we'll get a pretty good Guest: group of people that will come to Guest: that the majority of Guest: our agents should attend and that's Guest: an opportunity for them to see each Guest: other but like that doesn't happen Guest: on a day -to -day basis. And to Guest: your point, I think COVID even Guest: changed our industry, even in Guest: that little bit more, where people Guest: wanted to stay at home, right? They Guest: didn't want to go out and interact, Guest: which is hard. Like in our Guest: business, you do have to go see Guest: people, right? Guest: And I think people, and I'll have Guest: to segue a little bit, but I get Guest: asked a lot about, are you ever Guest: afraid technology is going to Guest: replace your business? Well, it Guest: won't because people crave high Guest: touch. Guest: And I do see actually a little bit Guest: of a shift moving from purely Guest: online and virtual and all those Guest: things to society wanting that high Guest: touch again and in person. Guest: People want to see touch feel Guest: still, right? Guest: But to that point, I did see a Guest: noticeable change for people kind Guest: of, especially the young people, Guest: really coveting Guest: their time with their family and Guest: friends, right? that they make that Guest: a priority, which I think is Guest: awesome, by the way. Guest: I do try to tell all of my new Guest: realtors when we talk about Guest: building schedules, I'm like, this Guest: is how it should work. Guest: You first. Guest: Please block off all your personal Guest: time. Guest: If you need to do workouts in the Guest: morning or whatever time of day, Guest: just block it off. Call it, you Guest: have to see Mr. Gym. Nobody needs Guest: to know. Guest: If you meditate, have that blocked Guest: off in your time. Nobody needs to Guest: know. I don't know. Call it Guest: something else, right? right? Time Guest: with your mind. I don't know. Kevin: and Guest: then, you know, then we talk about Guest: friends and family, right? Make Guest: sure all the birthdays are blocked Guest: off, your anniversary dates with Guest: your Guest: spouse, all those things that are Guest: important. Then we talk about real Guest: estate and making sure we have all Guest: the important dates and like Guest: training dates and all the things Guest: in real estate that don't Guest: change then let's talk about open Guest: houses and let's talk about lead Guest: generation activities and so that's Guest: how your schedule should build and Guest: i appreciate that you know the Guest: younger generation and Guest: really do protect the time with Guest: their with their family yeah Kevin: it's interesting because that still Kevin: still will be two boxes three Kevin: goes into your three boxes the Kevin: three buckets that Kevin: buckets that everybody has to have Kevin: everybody has to have but that's Kevin: but that's become Kevin: becomes one of the non -negotiables Kevin: that starts there becomes becomes Kevin: an unnegotiable now interesting Kevin: question that i have here is that Kevin: you've been in this for Kevin: world for Kevin: a long time three decades and we Kevin: look at ai today and we look at the Kevin: internet okay two key components Kevin: in our in our history and in our Kevin: lives that was a changing point Kevin: which has become the greatest Kevin: of these components, Kevin: changing point between the two they Kevin: all have their goods bads their Kevin: indifference but where did you you Kevin: see in society was the biggest Kevin: shift that one moment that actually Kevin: because of it changed Kevin: everything instantly and now Kevin: example ai is only a thousand days Kevin: old Guest: That's crazy to think that. It Guest: seems like it's been around a long Guest: time. And Kevin: then the internet when it came out Kevin: okay it was like whoa here's this Kevin: thing and everybody's like this is Kevin: going to change you 2020 is going Kevin: to okay the millennium like 2020 Kevin: the world's going to end kind Kevin: be a millennium. which part do you Guest: kind of thing. So Kevin: think has had its biggest impact on Kevin: your industry, Guest: or just Kevin: in general? both your industry, Kevin: okay, internet or AI in the Kevin: industry, and then for you Kevin: personally? Guest: I would say, this is so hard Guest: because there's, I mean, internet Guest: and AI. so the internet made a big Guest: difference in our industry because Guest: all of a sudden now Guest: realtors used to be the gatekeepers Guest: of all information and so we used Guest: to have books that would have all Guest: of our listings in them we were the Guest: owners of those books and it was Guest: only when the when Guest: you know we were working with Guest: somebody we provide them that Guest: information it was an enormous Guest: shift especially for realtors who Guest: had been in the industry a long Guest: time for all of a sudden all that Guest: information being available on the Guest: internet all of a Guest: sudden the public could do their Guest: own research they could find their Guest: own listings they could they could Guest: do even today now you can go on and Guest: try to find evaluations on your own Guest: home I'm not saying that that's the Guest: way you should do Guest: it because you should and so they Guest: they don't take in account a lot of Guest: things But all that information is Guest: now available. I think what AI did Guest: for us in our industry is take that Guest: to the next level, right, where we Guest: can go into AI. Guest: And I think for realtors, there's Guest: been some benefits as well in terms Guest: of being able to build out, let's Guest: say, business plans, to build out Guest: marketing plans for their clients, Guest: to create their own brands, right? Guest: Right. So they can use AI to do a Guest: lot of that. Guest: But, you know, the public now has Guest: even more ability to get Guest: information. And by the way, I Guest: think that's good. Like, don't get Guest: me wrong. Guest: I was one of the proponents of open Guest: source and getting as much Guest: information as you can, because at Guest: the end of the day, you know, that Guest: makes the realtor forced to be more Guest: professional. Guest: Like we have to now be able to Guest: guide our clients through all the Guest: information that they can get. Guest: Sure, you can get information Guest: overload and you're, you know, Guest: getting dumped on with all of this, Guest: but how do you interpret it? Kevin: Yeah, and it's interesting because Kevin: speaking from experience and what Kevin: you're talking about, here I am in Kevin: the construction industry, Kevin: so doing this for 25 years, 30 Kevin: years, but I always go back to the Kevin: real estate because what's Kevin: interesting people phone us and Kevin: they said you know what I need a Kevin: renovation for my house and we're Kevin: going okay what does it look like Kevin: or Kevin: give us some pictures or stuff Kevin: first thing they do is they always Kevin: go back because that house would Kevin: have been sold sometime in the last Kevin: 20 years there's a picture of an Kevin: interior of the staircase so we can Kevin: measure off of that right it's all Kevin: real estate pictures because Kevin: they're all high Kevin: high professional, they're high in Kevin: net value, like they're awesome. Kevin: super helpful Guest: So Kevin: very helpful. And we're in the Kevin: construction industry going, well, Kevin: oh, you don't have to take that Kevin: picture because they're selling Kevin: that house or however that comes Kevin: through. So it's a good lead Kevin: generation for us. So that's where Kevin: AI has come in. And it's obviously Kevin: the internet's changed a bit. We're Kevin: in the construction Kevin: industry. We're backwards. We're 10 Kevin: years behind. So when you look at Kevin: technology, you look where it is Kevin: today, the construction industry is Kevin: um Kevin: way behind. Now, builders may be up Kevin: there, but the people that Kevin: are actually in the industry as a Kevin: whole um that produce it like Kevin: contractors and stuff are at the Kevin: entry level like they haven't Kevin: adapted ai they have some of them Kevin: haven't even gone from pen Kevin: like they're still in pen to paper Kevin: using excel for their sheets and Kevin: oh wow okay Kevin: stuff like that never mind Kevin: that so that growth potential Kevin: especially with realtors are so far Kevin: like plugged in and what you guys Kevin: are doing changes the market like Kevin: it changes the way things are done Kevin: you guys lead it and how Kevin: Yeah, Kevin: how you're leading the next Kevin: revolution in real estate, so to go Kevin: that way. Kevin: Yeah, Guest: I think it'll be interesting in the Guest: future how things like VR come into Guest: play. So, you know, let's say it's Guest: minus 30 out and I want to go look Guest: at some houses. Guest: And again, I'm not saying VR Guest: replaces, you know, the SeaTouch Guest: feel, Guest: But like, you know, maybe I could Guest: do some, you know, walking through Guest: some houses with virtual reality Guest: goggles and like at least, you Guest: know, go through and eliminate Guest: because buying a house is a process Guest: of elimination Guest: is eliminate the houses that just Guest: aren't going to work. And then, you Guest: know, focus in on the one or two Guest: that we might consider. sitter and Guest: so a little less time going out Guest: there and necessarily walking Guest: through homes that maybe Guest: you know you have you're sitting Guest: here in your couch in your Guest: brokerage office or maybe at home Guest: your realtors brought their vr over Guest: you know and you're walking through Guest: those houses with them i Guest: That'll be the next step. Guest: don't know it'd just be kind of Guest: interesting Interesting. Kevin: All right, so now, next step. Kevin: Where do you see yourself in the Kevin: next five years? You personally and Kevin: your organization. I'll go you Kevin: personally first because you're Kevin: always connected. Guest: well one of the things that i did Guest: this year i uh took the icd course Guest: for anybody that doesn't know what Guest: that is um it's the it's to become Guest: a better director right on a board Guest: and i wanted to uh Guest: open up more opportunities for Guest: myself to sit on different kinds of Guest: boards i i love our city and i I Guest: love all the cool things that are Guest: happening here. And I want to get Guest: more involved and more engaged. Guest: So it looks like I'm going to be Guest: going on to an arts board, which is Guest: a complete deviation from what I've Guest: been doing, but I'm very excited Guest: about that. And I can see myself Guest: doing more of that, whether it's Guest: getting involved in a City of Guest: Calgary board Guest: or, like I said, arts or something Guest: where I have a little bit more of Guest: my fingers in, Guest: what's happening in Calgary? What's Guest: happening in this city? Guest: um so that's me personally um i Guest: also anybody that knows me knows i Guest: love to travel so you know spending Guest: a bit more time also doing some Guest: intentional traveling learning Guest: about the world Guest: something i really love to do with Guest: my family my my parents are you Guest: know knock on wood very very Guest: very, very healthy things. Guest: healthy they're well into their mid Guest: 80s and so i want to spend time Guest: All Guest: with them too and make sure i'm Guest: yeah doing some traveling and and Guest: seeing them as much as i can too Guest: all Kevin: right, so last one and then we'll Kevin: just wrap this up because I want to Kevin: know is like for someone to get a Kevin: hold of you wants to get into real Kevin: once Kevin: estate wants to learn more about Kevin: it. Can they reach out to you to Kevin: have a conversation Kevin: to build up and what does that Guest: absolutely Kevin: mean? Kevin: So, please tell us a little bit Kevin: about Guest: about that okay so first of all i Guest: want to say something this business Guest: no offense to construction is the Guest: most fun industry you can can be Guest: involved in as much as I've said, Guest: like the highs and lows, the great Guest: thing about working with Guest: people and, and helping them Guest: fulfill their dreams is like, I Guest: don't think there's anything that Guest: can replace that. And it's a bit Guest: addictive, you know, for people Guest: that really get into it and love Guest: it. Guest: It's, it's amazing. There's no Guest: better business, um, you know, Guest: creating your own structure and Guest: being able to run your own Guest: business. It's, it's so fun. So Guest: yes, if you, if it's something Guest: you're Guest: are interested in please do contact Guest: me i mean you can contact me Guest: through my office look up royal Guest: page benchmark um you can go on my Guest: instagram and find me there corinne Guest: chaos k -a -o -s Guest: i'm not surprising that's my handle Guest: and uh um yeah anyway or you can Guest: email me it's i'm easy to find you Guest: can go to royal page benchmark .ca Guest: um one of the things that you'd ask Guest: me kevin and i Guest: I do want to finish it because I Guest: just talked about me personally, Guest: but through our business, I'm not Guest: going anywhere for the next five Guest: years. You know, we want to keep Guest: evolving and growing Guest: and creating even better Guest: efficiencies and infrastructure for Guest: our realtors. We have an office, we Guest: have offices all, so just for Guest: everybody too, we have two offices Guest: in Calgary. We have an Guest: office in Cochrane, Airdrie, Guest: Strathmore, and Fort McMurray. And Guest: I'm really proud of our Fort Fort Guest: McMurray group, they, and that Guest: market, not to get down the real Guest: estate, um, Guest: rabbit hole, but that market's been Guest: improving and probably the best Guest: year they've had so far is this Guest: year. And I think there's a lot of Guest: attraction there for some of the Guest: things that, um, some of the energy Guest: companies are doing, but also too, Guest: is just, it's, it's become an Guest: affordable place to live. And Guest: there, that community is really Guest: tight too, but we have great Guest: realtors in Fort McMurray Guest: And so, yeah, I'm loving still what Guest: I'm doing. Guest: It's been awesome working with Tom, Guest: my husband, because he really has a Guest: different brain in terms of Guest: operations, and it's rejuvenated Guest: everything for me in this business Guest: too. So there you Kevin: go. Guest: That is awesome. Kevin: you very much for being on shed Kevin: talk listen like share hit that Kevin: button call Corinne I'm telling you Kevin: if you want to learn something do Kevin: something you know when's the last Kevin: time you did something see you here Kevin: on shed talk with Kevin Halliday