Latest / The Lawtino™ / The American Dream, Reimagined

Transcript

The American Dream, Reimagined · The Lawtino™

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Latino Podcast, where we amplify the voices of Latino professionals, entrepreneurs, and leaders coming together to educate, inspire, and connect across one of the most dynamic binational regions in the world.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: Bicultural, premium, powerful.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_02: Hey everyone, it's John Gomez.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to another episode of the La Tino podcast where we discuss the intersection of law and our Latino communities.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_02: This episode, as always, is brought to you by your sponsor, Gomez Trial Attorneys.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_02: Gomez Trial Attorneys is a national and bi-national law firm representing plaintiffs in personal injury, employment, civil rights, mass torts, class action matters, equally in the English and Spanish languages.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_02: We serve clients from both sides of the border.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_02: And so today's guest is really special for us and a great addition to the program and one that should have been with us a long time ago.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_02: But before we introduce him, I'm going to introduce our co-host or my co-host who again started off as a guest on this podcast and found his way here at the law firm as the director of our US Mexico border practice.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, share some things in common with our guests.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_02: So I think today will be a good discussion.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_02: But welcome as always, David.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_02: I know like you tell us like now you believe that maybe, you know, the conversation we had here was a job interview, you know, but I'm glad that you passed.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_02: I'm glad that you took the job.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's usually my intro after John says that I was a former guest.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_03: Uh so yeah, I guess I passed it.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_03: I'm here.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_03: Uh excited to be the co-host with John and excited for our guest today, with uh who I know I'm probably gonna have uh similar uh similarities from growing up in Mexico.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_02: Well, why don't you go ahead and introduce our guest and then we'll get started with the conversation with him?
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, of course.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_03: So today we have the privilege of having Adrian Martinez from Procopio, a uh a binational, international firm that's very well known in my, let's say, hometown of Tijuana, Mexico.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, we were just having a nice conversation before the podcast started of why uh Procopio became known as the to-go firm for businesses.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, and now he's expanding into litigation.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_03: So we wanna we wanna hear more about that.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_03: Uh so Adrian, without further ado, why don't you introduce yourself?
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_03: Tell us about yourself.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, well, again, thank you so much for inviting me.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_04: As I wrote to you guys in preparation for this uh podcast, uh, this is my highlight, one of my highlights of the year.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_04: I'm a full I'm a great fan of uh John Gomez and and the law firm and his team.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_04: I think you guys are doing a fantastic job.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_04: So the fact that you invited me, uh, it's humbling, it's honoring, and uh and thank you for having me.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_04: As you mentioned, um I'm licensed, I'm an attorney from Mexico.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_04: I was born in Mexico City, born and raised.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_04: Uh that's when I went to law school.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_04: Uh five years of law school, as you may recall, back in the 90s.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_04: Um and then on my last year of law school, uh there was this great uh uh female uh law professor who taught like general US law, talking about the US legal system, and she she mentioned that in California, like in other states, you had to take a bar exam and the the takers would write down their uh a a number, not in name, they wouldn't then that would indicate their gender or you know race and whatnot.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_04: And that that triggered my interest to to come to practice in the US.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_04: We're talking about 1998 or so.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_04: Um but uh it was more like a dream.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_04: I didn't become very involved in finding you know all the requirements and so forth.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_04: Um I graduated from law school, uh was first in my class, very fortunate, with the assistance of all my law professors and uh and my uh classmates.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_04: And uh back then I was working at Notaria Publica número 56, number 56 in Mexico City.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_04: Uh great uh mentor.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_04: He uh licenciado Martínez Urchidi suggested me to become a notario.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_04: I still had the idea of coming to the US, so I uh I declined that uh very kind offer.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_04: And a friend of a friend of a friend uh mentioned that the Mexican consulate here in San Diego was uh had a position open at the uh Departamento de Protección, the protection department at the consulate here in San Diego, and uh I applied for it, got the job.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, we could have another podcast to tell you the story of how uh you know, within literally within minutes, there was a decision between staying in Mexico, working at Unilever, the legal department, or coming to the consulate.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_04: I came to work at the consulate, and I did that for a couple of years.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_04: Um then I met who is now my wife.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_04: We've been married for almost 24 years, and but uh I didn't have the resources to study master's program here in California.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_04: Um but I wanted to become licensed to practice law in California.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_04: So I met her and she had finished her master's program at Calf Western.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_04: And what I noticed is that uh her classmates, foreign attorneys from South America, Mexico, Europe, uh had taken the bar exam, but no nobody had passed it.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_04: So in my situation of necessity, right, of need, uh I concluded, well, if these people, very smart people, very small attorneys, went through the master's program and they didn't pass the bar, then you don't need to go through a master's program to pass the bar.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_04: So I just decided uh to um to take the bar exam.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_04: And uh did you did you do a course?
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_04: Well, I did barbery.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_04: So so someone uh a guy, uh great guy, David Hodge.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_04: Uh yeah, yeah.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_04: Uh he he just gave me his Barberry books.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_04: Oh wow and I started studying on my own January 3rd of 2003.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_04: And so I was working at the consulate and I was studying in the evenings and during the weekends and prepping up and and whatnot.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_04: And and uh studied at work, and uh by then I was already married and took the bar and passed the bar, and and that was my wow, what a story!
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that was my that's pretty impressive because even people going to law school here, they don't pass.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of like half the people, right?
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_02: Like half the people that take it don't pass.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_02: And even in California.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and even for foreign attorneys that are coming in, and for example, they do the LLM.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_03: None of them pass for 10%.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_03: Just like 8%, 7%.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_04: At least that class, uh, if Monica's class at California Western School had trouble passing the bar.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_04: But again, that's a need, right?
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_04: The need to succeed, and that the need for uh to progress, uh is it's a fuel.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_04: It sometimes fuels your intensity in trying to achieve your goals, and at least that's that's what happened to me.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_04: And uh so I became licensed in I was licensed in Mexico and California when I was like 27.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_04: Wow and I thought I was going to rule the world and everybody was going to offer me a job, and it took me a year to get my first job.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_04: Really?
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_04: And actually, uh as it is well known, I think, uh, by some people, one of the law firms that uh rejected me was Procopio.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_04: Oh and now I understand why.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_04: I think I understand why.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_04: Maybe I brainwashed myself uh to to to conclude why they rejected me back back then.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_04: But it took me a year to get a job.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_02: And uh so were you still working at the consulate?
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_04: Still working at the consulate, less in Mexico, as in California.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, you were definitely a resource for them.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_03: We were actually at the Departamento de Protección, what was it, three weeks ago?
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_03: Talking to the team.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_03: Good team.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_03: Uh we want to do a little bit more work for them, maybe train them.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_03: Uh that's that's awesome.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_04: Well, and at the same time, I had passed the bar, but I didn't have any practice.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_04: You know, any experience, and near any experience.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_04: Uh-huh.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_04: I passed the bar, but I didn't go through law school.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_04: So all the great knowledge that you acquired during law school, including including skills, I didn't have those.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_04: So I have my license.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_04: Um so it it made sense, at least now it makes sense why some firms, including Procopio, were not eager to hire me under my circumstances.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_04: But I joined uh another firm, Branton Wilson, uh, gave me my first opportunity.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_04: And uh I'm my first area of the law that I helped with, I didn't necessarily practice, but helped with was personal injury.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_04: And it was one of the most rewarding times, you know, practicing law for me.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, just helping.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_04: Um I'm in for the underdog.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_04: I consider myself an underdog, and I'm here for the people and and all the little people, right?
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_04: All of us should are little people.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_04: Some behave behave like they're bigger, but they're not.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_04: Um and that was that was great.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_04: And I had an opportunity to work with Steve Wallman and uh had a couple of cases with uh Gene Ardale and uh and uh and Robert, Robert Hamperian, and that's and I you know I worked my way uh to learn the practice of personal injury, FTCA, FTCA cases, um, and uh, and then at some point uh Procopio learned that I was representing uh we were representing the same clients in different areas.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_04: Procopio was representing the Mexican clients in business and tax matters, and I was representing them in litigation-related matters.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_04: Uh one of my mentors in family law was Alex Cuoka, partner at Branton.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_02: So at that time were your Mexican clients coming from here locally or through your contacts in Mexico City?
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_04: No, they were city.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, they were coming a mix of locally and some from Mexico City.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_04: Uh-huh.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm gonna so I joined Branton and Wilson in 2004.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_04: Uh so I'm gonna say that from 2004 to 2008, uh, my my clientele, you know, my clients were uh very limited, my number of clients.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_04: It was relying more on what the other partners brought in, you know.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_04: Right, of course.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_04: Um but they were primarily from Baja California and Mexico City.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_04: Um and uh I I uh had my first final law case, a cross-border case representing a gentleman who uh had been married in in Tijuana and who had was being divorced here in in San Diego.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_04: We filed was my first motion to quash uh for lack of personal jurisdiction and formal convenience, all that good stuff.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_02: And uh and so was your guy living up here at the time?
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it no well.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_02: No, he right not as not as ex attitude to TRU.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_04: He wasn't domicile, right?
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_04: He wasn't domicile, that's one of the bases for personal jurisdiction.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_04: He was physically present in California when we he was served.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_04: That's another basis for personal jurisdiction.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_04: But uh, we were able to persuade the the tribal court that the most convenient forum was Mexico, and the case got uh initially dismissed, but then by the Court of Appeal uh partially reversed.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_04: The trial court and uh the uh the case was stayed for five years.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_04: Oh my gosh.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_04: Um that's a win for your side.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, absolutely.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_04: And and during those five years, they litigated the parties litigated jurisdiction in Mexico.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_04: It went all the way to the federal courts.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_04: Did you get involved with those?
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_03: No, no, not at all.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_04: So once I started practicing law here in California, I was hands-off on practicing law in Mexico.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_03: That's what I've heard before from other attorneys who are licensed in Mexico, they delegate that, but at least you have the understanding.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah, it does help.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_04: It does help to explain to the client in their own language and their own concepts, you know, legal concepts, what is happening here in this in the in California in the proceedings with respect to discovery that we don't have all of that and whatnot.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_04: And uh so going back to the story to make it shorter, um, Procopio offered me to become uh to join them in 2008 uh by uh for then firm counter uh by offering me to make partner.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_04: I made partner at that firm, and that firm ultimately dissolved in 2010.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_04: Procopio learned that I was becoming homeless and free agent.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, free agent, and then offered me to join them, and I've been with Procopio since since.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_04: My practice uh before I joined Procopio, I was doing some personal injury, helping Steve and other creative attorneys like you, John.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_04: Um and once I joined Procopio, I turned more on family law and cross-border family law and cross-border business litigation, litigio mercantile on this side of the border.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_02: And so you've been there for a while, you must be pretty happy.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, you know, uh work is work, right?
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_04: And uh a great uh great uh people from staff, our staff.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_04: I love our staff at Procopio, and then and I love my fellow partners and associates and everyone.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_04: So uh great uh group of people, and uh I'm I'm I'm happy there, as happy as I can be, and uh have a very uh robust uh support group and uh great people to work with.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_04: So yeah.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's so interesting that you know your decision to maybe explore being a lawyer up here was prompted by this professor and her saying like you take the the bar blind.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, so you would just be a number, so I guess no one would kind of know who you were, where you were from.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_04: And there's there's a there's something behind that, and uh I feel like I'm gonna start confessing in public.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_04: Give it up.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it's probably I I'll try to measure myself.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_04: No, um so I think I was a good law student during law school.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_04: Number one.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_04: Well, according to the professors, right, who graded my my exams.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_04: But I felt that I didn't um get this opportunity to work at certain law firms, very prestigious law firms in Mexico City, and because um because I didn't have the connections or the like family does come from me, you know, is very prestigious and whatnot.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_04: If you know you know what I'm I'm talking about.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_04: Right, sure.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_04: So I mean I was lucky enough to work with uh Notero 56 and other uh good attorneys, but uh I saw other uh classmates that very great guys and whatnot, and um maybe not as studious as others, that they they got those opportunities, right?
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_04: So maybe I'm I'm I'm projecting that I had a chip on my shoulder, maybe that's what I had, right?
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_04: And maybe I still have that, I don't know.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_04: But uh when she mentioned that in order to uh to take the exam, you you would have to give a number instead of they wouldn't know your last name.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_04: That that that sounded to me uh equality, right?
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_04: Equal opportunity to become licensed, to practice law, regardless of the status of your family or of yourself, right?
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_03: So actual actual merit.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_04: Actual merit, yes.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_04: Um I believe in merit, and I believe in hard work and and respect.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_04: And uh and I'm not saying I didn't get that where I was in Mexico, but I mean that's that was what was in my mind and my experience so that when she said that, I said that's that's the place I want to go because I'm gonna be given a fair opportunity to show myself.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that was uh quite a leap of faith and um confidence in yourself.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, they they really do say um, you know, here is the land of opportunity, anyone can do anything.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um and you know, I I sometimes will talk about we try to um we have some employees that are are from Mexico or Colombia that live there are very smart people, you know, but um it appears like you said that sometimes as as matter as smart as you are, whatever education you have, um in some places a little more than here, maybe your future is more dependent upon who you know, who your family is, you know, what your family did, you know.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_02: So maybe, you know, for a very smart, studious, um, hardworking person, maybe without those family connections, maybe maybe here is better.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_04: Well, um, that's my experience.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, um the moment I was able to become a permanent resident, that's what I did with my idea to become a US citizen.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_04: And and uh I'm a US citizen, very proud.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_04: This is my country.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, oh I was born in Mexico, I'm also Mexican.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, but I mean, this is the country that gave me the opportunity to um to become um to achieve my personal professional goals.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, I have two children.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_04: My my wife, she's from Guadalajara, but we married here.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_04: Similarities?
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, there you go, exactly.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_04: Beautiful women, very smart.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, strong will.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_04: And we'll leave it at that because happy wives, happy lives.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but uh yeah, no, this the this was the land of opportunity.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_04: I don't see myself achieving what I have achieved through a lot of work, a lot of effort, uh in my hometown.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_04: Maybe I maybe who knows, right?
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_04: Maybe I would have achieved more, whatnot, but I'm I'm satisfied, I'm very happy, I'm very uh fortunate uh that I um that I moved to the to the states and I'm able to practice law in this fantastic legal system that is has its flaws because there's no perfect legal system and there's perfect there's no perfect community.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_04: Nevertheless, uh I I feel blessed.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_04: Awesome.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_03: And it seems like your background from what you're telling me and telling us uh from the beginning of your career to Procopio actually, you know, getting you in the door.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_03: It seems like your background is what basically also, I mean, your knowledge of the law, but also your background, right?
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_03: Cultural.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_03: They were assigning some of these Mexican national clients because of your knowledge of the Spanish language, the culture, and the law.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_03: And uh, I don't know if you know, but you know, John is on his way to you know be very knowledgeable about Mexican law.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_03: He's studying law at uh UNAM.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_03: That's fantastic.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, sir.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_04: La Escuela, the Escuela de Derecho in Mexico.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_03: And that's and that's definitely an advantage, absolutely language and culture.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_03: So I think that's definitely one of the uh uh advantages that you brought to your clients.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, at the beginning of the um uh before we started the podcast, we're talking about Procopio and what Procopio's name is so prevalent in the in Mexico, and it has a very robust international tax practice.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_04: I think right now we have uh not less than 10 attorneys who are licensed in Mexico and California, New York, and other states who practice on the era of tax taxation.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_04: And uh and we participate in a lot of you know conferences in Mexico and whatnot, uh a lot of marketing, um, a lot of reach uh reach out to the community and also uh inviting those professionals from Mexico also to speak here in in San Diego and other venues in the states.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_04: Um and it is because of the uh the language, the culture, um is definitely a door opener uh from a personal and professional perspective.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_04: I tell my children to practice their Spanish, they were born here, they're raised here, and I have trouble persuading them to practice their Spanish, right?
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_04: We only speak to them in Spanish at home, but it's a struggle, you know, because the rest of their environment for the most part is in English.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_04: But for those listeners, one of the messages to the listeners, uh the younger listeners is uh develop those uh uh language skills to the extent you you know another language other than English, keep practicing it, it will open more doors to you.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_04: And to the extent you already uh are able to communicate in a different language, uh maybe learn a third language, because it it's It definitely makes a difference.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_03: Especially here in San Diego, California.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_03: You know, we need it.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_03: Like John and I, we speak Spanish, and a lot of our clients are Spanish speaking.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_03: So we we want to make sure that we speak their language so that we can understand what they're actually meaning or conveying.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_04: There's more connection.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_04: There is personal connection, right?
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, without question.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_02: So uh talk about the family.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_02: You said you had kids.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_02: Is is your wife practicing law or what's she doing?
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_04: So my my wife, um she's currently working at USD.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_04: University, um University of San Diego Law School, the graduate program.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_04: She's a graduate program coordinator.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, cool.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_04: And um she went back to work out of uh outside of home last year.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_02: So you you are a guest lecturer there, right?
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_04: Or I yes, I'm uh adjunct professor.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_04: Uh the master's in in uh US US law in Spanish.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_02: How is that?
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_02: Because uh they're talking to David about maybe doing a little part of that.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_04: I think that's a great opportunity.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_04: Uh on the one, on the on the personal for the professor, it's a great opportunity to develop, continue developing your oral skills, right?
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_04: Um study, right?
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_04: In order to teach, you have to study, you have to know what you're teaching about.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_04: So it's a good opportunity to refresh some of your knowledge.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_04: And also uh it's definitely a marketing marketing tool.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_04: A lot of people from that uh a lot of attorneys from Latin America get to know you, and they will think about you when there's a legal issue for one of your clients, uh, a legal issue here in the US, and they'll reach out to you.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_04: That's what has happened to me.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_04: I taught that class, uh civil procedure at California Western School of Law for eight years, then that program kind of transitioned to USD, and um and I restarted doing this, uh teaching that class last uh fall, and I I love it.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_04: It's time, it's time consuming, but I think it's uh it's a great program.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_04: The professor is great, the uh the faculty is great, and uh and it's a it's it's a win-win.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_02: What are the yeah?
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just curious, like, what are the students in that program look like and what are they trying to accomplish?
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_02: Well and this is the LLM in Spanish and now USD School of Law.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_03: And that's what I find interesting, the fact that it's in Spanish.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_03: For example, the one that I'm I guess being sought out for is torts, right?
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_03: So now we need to familiarize myself with a lot of legal in Spanish.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_03: And you're a Spanish, you're a native speaker.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_03: Native speaker, but you know, my law school was in the US.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_03: No, all of my knowledge of law is in English.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_03: So now it's gonna be actually interesting because I'm gonna be learning more about the terms in Spanish without with actual legal terms.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_02: To his point, like um now though, you're gonna be able to communicate those terms.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_02: Say you have um a Mexican national, you know, that has heard a little bit on the news or a little bit on the radio, or a little bit here about lawsuits and torts.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_02: So they know these terms, and then they come and and you have all these terms, you're speaking their language, literally.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_02: You know, so like what does that class look like?
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_02: What are they who are they?
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_02: What are they trying to do?
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_04: Well, the students are um attorneys licensed in countries other than the US who um are Spanish speaking.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_04: Uh the vast majority, I would say, are last my class last year was from Venezuela, from Colombia and Mexico.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_04: Um I had a couple of students from Chile and Argentina.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_04: Um and I guess there is uh my perception is that there's a mixed bag of of uh why they're taking the the program.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_04: Some of them want to become licensed in in California, like like me, right?
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, by the way, I didn't do this course.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't even take the bar or anything, I just looked through some old books.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: But but I'm a genius.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_04: Actually, I don't think I don't want to destroy the program, right?
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_04: No, it's a great program, right?
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I just for full disclosure, had I had the money when I decided to take the bar, had I had the money to pay for the LM, I would have taken the LM.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_04: Again.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_04: So some of them want to become licensed in California or somewhere in the US.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_04: Some of them want the uh certificate because it's gonna help them in their current uh you know position with the organization, law firm, whatever.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_04: And some others are just studios.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, and uh in my experience, those are the those are very interesting people because they're they just want to learn more.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_04: So we'll probably know more, far more than myself.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_04: Right, and most of us intellectuals.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_04: Intellectuals, uh, and I and I've seen control and practical both.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_04: Uh but uh one of my first uh students uh many years ago uh in that program um became a justice of the Argent uh the Argentine uh Supreme Court.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_04: Oh wow, just to give you an idea, right?
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_04: And one of another another uh student that I had is he's a PhD, a doctorate in law in Mexico.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_04: Wow.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_04: Super well known.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_04: Oh wow uh that's fun.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_04: So just and you get the younger crowd.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_04: So it's a it's a good mix of people with different goals, with different ideas, but all for the most part, I would say all interested in learning about the US legal system.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, how do they find the the program?
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, first of all, it's it's a great advantage that you're teaching that class because you you you make that decision, right, to move to the US.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_03: But how do they find you or how do they find the specific program in like in San Diego, for example, at USD?
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I think uh I think they they do a lot of marketing with bar organizations and law organizations.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_04: The USD does a lot of marketing of those programs, reach out to those organ to organizations in those countries to promote the program.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_04: That's my understanding.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_04: Um yeah, and uh we can should we uh maybe you guys will invite Karen Sigmund, the the you know, vice dean to to speak more about the program.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, sure, yeah.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_04: But that's my that's my understanding.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_02: And so um, you know, uh how it it sounds was it prior to you getting over to Procopio that Procopio was already trying to develop this cross-border practice, this international practice with a focus on Latin America?
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, um, I think Procopio hired the first attorney license in Mexico and California, maybe I won't say seven years before I joined them.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_04: So we're talking about in the early 2000s.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_04: Um but it was only in the practice of tax law.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_04: Because back then, one of the uh Patrick Martin.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_04: Patrick Martin, uh he a tax uh attorney, he had the idea of reaching out to that market, the Mexican market.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_04: I I believe he and don't don't quote me and I may be may have these facts wrong, but I my understanding is that Patrick studied at least one year at Escuela Libre de Derecho in Mexico City.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_04: And he learned, okay, there's a market.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_04: And and then he hired the first attorney uh licensed in Mexico to practice in international tax.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_04: And and that that multiplied like the gremlins, right?
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_04: He he, you know, more attorneys kept more tax attorneys licensed in Mexico and California kept joining Procopio.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_04: And there was a point, 2008, where I was doing my thing on representing clients from Mexico in family law disputes and commercial, you know, business litigation, and who were also clients of Procopio for tax matters.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_04: And so that's I guess when they decided, hey, why are we uh why are we not joining forces?
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_04: Yes and and and why don't we bring Adrian to serve the same client that he's already serving at another law firm uh you know with us at Procopio?
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_04: I think that's kind of the uh what happened.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_04: And then uh Procopio has been expanding, expanding on that um recruiting of non dual licensed uh on dual licensed non-tax attorneys uh from Mexico in the corporate area.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_04: Juan Arao and Andrea Sanchestapia, great colleagues, they they're not tax attorneys, they do corporate uh practice in the corporate law arena, and and that they're they're part of Procopio.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_04: And so I guess it's multiplying different areas of practice in Procopio.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that makes sense.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I at some point in time worked at Latham and Watkins, and the idea was a firm like that, a larger firm, you know, once you get a client, you know, a corporate client or, you know, a high net worth or um client, you know, you want to be able to provide them services across the legal spectrum.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_02: You don't want them going across the street for, you know, they're they're they're trusting a state, whatever, their tax issues, you know, because then you know they might be real happy with that person and they might steal them.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_02: And so if you can have kind of one-stop shop, you know, that that is the way to do it.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_04: I think that's that was the that was the idea of uh when they decided to invite me to Procopio, and that has been the plan.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_04: It it um there's there's not a lot of uh dual license litigators.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_04: No uh you see more dual licensed tax, corporate, state planning attorneys, and that and it's because maybe I don't know why is that well what's you what's your opinion, John?
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_02: Well, because you know, like for me personally, um, you know, it it wouldn't really make sense for me to try to litigate a case in Mexico.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_02: You know, to me, you know, the the system we have here is much better for what I do.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, for if I was, I don't know, if I was defending um a large sort of corporate, you know, interest, you know, I might want to drag that litigation down to Mexico and get it slowed down a bit.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe I'm presuming that's the case, but probably maybe that would happen and maybe not have um as much of an exposure to a you know a runaway jury system like we have here.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_02: But I feel like you know, that part of law is so you know dependent upon your relationship with the judge and with the court.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I think it's important to have you know one up here and one down there.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_02: Even if you're able to do both.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_02: Have you ever appeared in a and litigated in a Mexican court?
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_04: Not since I became licensed uh.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, yes, yeah.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, the very yeah.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_04: Um, it's and and I don't, it's it's it's very different.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_04: Let me say that.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_04: A little at that.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_04: It's very, very different.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_04: And I I have a group of trusted attorneys in throughout Mexico, uh, great colleagues that I I I believe they're competent, I believe they're honest.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_04: So when there's a case that I'm handling that requires local counsel in Mexico, I know who to call or the client refer the client to, I give a couple of options so the client can make that decision, and then uh yeah, they'll we'll we'll coordinate.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_04: But yeah, I mean my my my my perception is that the defendants want to uh have the cases tried in Mexico.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_02: For sure.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_04: Uh and the plaintiffs want to have their cases tried here in California.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_04: Just and and it happens the also in the Family Arena.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_04: That's my perception.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_04: The outspouse, meaning the spouses have access to information and the assets and the wealth.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_04: They want to, they're better uh, you know, fighting for the rights here in California, and the in-spouse, the one who controls information and all of that, wants to litigate outside of outside of uh California, probably in Mexico or somewhere else.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_04: And you know, for non-convenience, because of my crossover practice is an area of the law that I know a little bit about.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_04: Sure.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_04: And I've had the pleasure of representing uh I think primarily uh males uh from France, Finland, Spain, Israel, Hong Kong, whose uh spouses have uh uh filed for divorce here in California and and I've been retained to have uh to have the cases uh moved to to have them dismiss or stay on the form non-convenience, and we've been successful.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_04: There's there's merit, I guess.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah, right?
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_02: And that would be just entered into there, right?
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_04: But they definitely don't want to litigate their divorces here.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_02: No, no.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_02: How about this?
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_02: I have like a very common scenario.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_02: I must get like probably I'll say two to three of these calls a month.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_02: And it goes like this.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if you ever heard of this situation.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_02: You know, hey, um, you know, uh we uh my wife and I, you know, we traveled down to Cancun, we stayed at X and X Resort.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um you know, they they screwed this up, and my wife got terribly hurt, you know, because they didn't, I don't know, the the window fell out or there's a stairwell or something.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_02: But um they marketed it to us in California, and so um, hey, can we bring a case in California against this negligent resort located in Mexico for my wife's injury in Mexico?
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_02: And so um, like I I feel like that happens a fair amount.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_03: I get those calls as well, especially you know, being from over there, right?
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_03: Like, you know, we're the attorneys that they know here, yeah.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_03: They call us, yeah.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_03: They happen often.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_02: All the time.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_02: It's nothing against resorts there, they just happen to be in Mexico.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_02: Sure, you know, sure.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_02: We get the same calls for places here, but like, so what law applies there?
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, well, I mean, it's it's a minimum context, right?
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_04: It becomes a personal jurisdiction.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_04: 100%.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, law school that goes to budget.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_04: International, right?
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_04: International two and and a specific jurisdiction, and you know, what was that marketing intended to uh the citizens of for jurisdictional purposes of California?
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_04: And does that justify the exercise of jurisdiction?
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_04: Is it reasonable?
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_04: Uh maybe maybe it is.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_04: Maybe it is, you know, you have to see uh the the intentionality of of the marketing efforts, and uh but there's also the those defenses I think have a very strong non-conventional non-conventional.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_04: So even if even if you can get the forecast jurisdiction, the most convenient form is Mexico because my assets are there, the accident occurred there, the records are there.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_04: You know, in the past before the pandemic and the Zoom uh you know, video conferences and all that, it was easier to argue, you know, all the witnesses are there.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_04: Now the courts are less reluctant to well, I mean, counsel they can testify, they can appear for you know virtually.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_04: Uh so but still, I guess which law applies?
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_04: Choice of law.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_04: There you go.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_03: Choice of law.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_03: He's a professor.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_04: Choice of law, and uh, and that's that's that's a tough one.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_04: That's the death knell.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_04: You know what I mean?
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_04: For the plaintiff.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_04: Right, right.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_04: And uh so I think that the defendants do have uh a good argument on formal convenience, and that I I think it's gonna be a uh it can be an uphill battle.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_02: Highly difficult, right.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_02: I would I have a question.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, now that you talked about remote stuff, you know, so for a lot of us, um COVID and you know, the lack of ability to have in-person meetings or maybe hearings really change a little bit of the practice of law, more and more depositions by video conference, more and more meetings by video conference.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_02: But I'm wondering for you in particular, your whole life and practice is cross-border with a bunch of international clients.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe did you before have to travel all the time and now you get to travel less, or how has that all affected you?
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_04: Well, uh I started using Zoom regularly before it was cool.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_04: Before it was cool in 2014 when when I started teaching when I started teaching the procedure at the Master, the LLN in Spanish at Western.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, so you weren't after when they're uh they're uh remote.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_04: So so the program uh the I think right now the problem is there's there's one week in person or two or two weeks in person at the beginning of the pro of the program of the school year, and then one or two weeks after the end of the school year.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_04: And and um, but all the classes are were remote and continue to be remote.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_04: So I was used to Zoom.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_04: Um I didn't have Zoom meetings with the clients before before COVID, but uh but I was familiar with the program, so with the software.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_04: Um yes, uh I my traveling was reduced once we come used to uh communicate virtually through those platforms, and there's nothing like one-on-one uh contact.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, for for important meetings, uh I handled a massive uh divorce case in in LA for three years.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_04: Uh there were like seven law firms in a divorce case, seven law firms involved for both sides and whatnot.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_04: And there were powwows uh in Monterey, where counsel from a co-counsel from LA and I traveled to meet with co-counsel in Monterey and the client for have you know for those important meetings.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_04: And uh and and I think not only to discuss the important you know, the importance of the meeting, the substance of the meeting, but also it's it's not the same having that physical contact with the client.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_04: They can they can you can feel the client, the client can feel you, how uh interested, invested you are in the in the case, you know, in the matter, how informed you are.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_04: Um that that that feeling is not transmitted through those virtual uh uh conferences.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_04: But I before coming today uh to for the podcast, I had uh some conference with a client from Spain in a potential international divorce case.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_04: And uh it's super easy, right?
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_04: We don't have to travel.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I would love to go to Spain, yeah.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_04: Exactly.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_04: But uh but yeah, so extremely convenient.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_04: It does reduce the traveling.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_04: It does reduce the traveling, yeah.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_02: What about um I'm just like thinking about all the different you know inflections and um in uh different you know differences.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_02: Is there a difference in terms of courting um or attempting to acquire business of say, for example, a Mexican-based business?
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you've got, you know, say a company that's down in Mexico City.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_02: Like, do they like so in the old days they would say, oh, if you want to, you know, do business with the Japanese, you have to go and you have to drink and you have to do this, and you have don't talk about business too fast.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like, is there a process like that um when it comes to you know today's Mexican businessman or Mexican business interest?
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_04: I think it's about relations.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_04: I think the relations are important.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I'm about to be 50 years old this August and young, I'm very young, right?
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, very young.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_04: Very, very young.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_04: That's nothing, kid.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, exactly.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_04: You're looking good, you look like it's it's it's the water I drink at home, my wife's cool-aid.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_04: And uh but uh and so people now you start getting the calls, right?
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_04: From from the referrals from from those, because you're representing the clients for long term investment.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_04: Exactly.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_04: But uh, but I think the relations still is is what matters for the for the business people.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_04: It's not I don't think them the I'm not sure whether the marketing is as effective with respect to business people than the relations.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_04: That's just my perception.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_04: Some colleagues from other law firms ask me, so how do you get your clients?
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_04: Most of them, most of my clients are referred by attorneys in Mexico or clients who I represent currently represent or have represented.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_04: And those attorneys in Mexico who are for my clients know me because I either taught them, right?
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_04: I've been at their speaking engagements.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_04: So there's there has been some relationship.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_04: I don't do a lot of marketing.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_04: Per se.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, sure.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_04: Exactly.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_02: You do a lot of you do a lot of colleague-to-colleague, business-to-business marketing.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_03: A lot of outreach, a lot of from what I saw in your profile, it's outreach, being present.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_03: I have a ton of talks.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_03: Going to Mexico City, going to Tijuana, getting involved with, you know, the leaders in that community.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, thank you for correcting me.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_04: Exactly.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_04: That is the type of marketing that I do through speaking engagements.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_04: That's that has been perhaps the most successful uh way for me to reach out to people and uh and the type of clients that I that require my service, my services.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_04: And I I I have to admit, there's some cases, some clients, potential clients, that I wish to represent them, but because they don't they don't have the means.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_04: They don't have the means to retain me, uh retain Procopio.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_04: Um and that's very unfortunate.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that's that's access to justice, I don't want to go political here, but access to justice is a problem because of the cost of uh hiring a competent attorney.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_04: Um and there's also some cases that the damages at issue don't justify paying me, uh paying uh procopia a certain retainer, that is the minimum deposit that we're that we ask.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_04: And uh been so there have been some clients who who say, hey Aiden, I don't care, you know, we want to retain you, you highly recommend it.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_04: You explain that it's gonna be more expensive, then you know, make it doesn't make financial sense to hire Procopio to have you represent us.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, we're willing to do that.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_04: And and I I push back because I'm thinking about the client.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_04: And I don't think about me or Procopio making money.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_04: That's that's not why clients hire me, right?
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_04: They're hiring me because they want me to put them in a better situation than the one they are uh before retaining me.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_04: So um so yeah, it's uh so but that comment was is linked to my uh to my other thought on my my presentations and outreach uh are targeting certain clients, right?
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_04: Whether individual or businesses.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_03: And this is me picking Adrian's brain here.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_03: So I know you're involved for with Anale, uh Baja California, right?
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, maybe Anale Mexico.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_03: And uh so I actually spoke to the uh president of Anale Baja California because you know we have uh a big expansion going on right now.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_03: And the current one?
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_03: The yeah, so the current uh Maria Risa?
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, Maria Risa.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_04: So perfect attorney.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so I spoke with her, she invited me to an event.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_03: But for example, for us, we do tort law in the US.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, and we try to assist a lot of these people coming into the US and you know they need our services here.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, but I know now that it's very like business focused.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, would it make, for example, sense for like us school Mr.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_03: Attorneys go in and let's say meet with them, go to these events, uh, just to be that well-known, uh, prominent attorney from San Diego representing Tijuana people.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, well, uh first of all, I'm not the smartest guy on in terms of uh client development.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_04: Let's let's start, that's the starting point before I uh answer your question.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, um I'm of the I'm of the mindset of the more people you know, the better.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_04: That's that's in general.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_04: Um so I'm a consultant for the Mexican consulate, a legal consultant.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_04: So I get uh referred individuals who are need legal advice, and even if I cannot help, you know, represent them because they cannot retain me, I I I put them in a better position than they were before they called me.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_04: And and and that's how I got my first case ever, my first originated case, and we can talk about it about that in a minute if you want.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_04: Um so the more people you know, the better.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_04: And yes, and that is more business oriented, okay?
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_04: But but businesses also have people, right?
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_04: And those people get injured, and and then or they get divorced.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_04: Or they get divorced, or yeah, and so you never know where the when the next client is coming.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_04: Right, exactly.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that's and and we'll we'll talk about if you want about my first my first case, okay?
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_04: My first originated case.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_04: But for example, Barra Mexicana, that's another national association, is is is is more diverse with respect to the all the areas of the law that they cover, right?
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_04: So perhaps that's you may get more bank for your buck in terms of spending more time in in their uh with their members and their the organization and whatnot.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_04: But my I go back to my origin my second comment about this: the more people you know, the better.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_04: And you want to be in their mind.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_04: So it's it's a lot of investment.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_04: Uh generating clients, becoming a ring maker requires a lot of work and effort.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_04: Because you you have to be in the people's mind.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_04: Because when you get to meet someone the first time, or the second time, or third time, maybe they don't need an attorney at the time they met you.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_04: So if you met some person and you connected and whatnot, and then six months pass, and that person has a legal problem, if you if they don't remember you, they won't call you.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_04: So you have to be in their mind constantly.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_04: How well you go to Foranade, For Barra, you go to their quarterly meetings, their annual meetings.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_04: And by the way, their members are fantastic, you learn a lot, but it's also the the networking.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, the relationships, the relationships, the relationships, and so you have to be present in their minds.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_04: Um, that's kind of my very long-winded answer to your to your question.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_03: It seems like John and I were gonna be spending some time in uh Tijuana, Mexico, Anade, all these orcs.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_04: Barra Mexicana and Anade great organizations.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_04: There's another one.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_04: I don't I don't know if they have a chapter in Baja California, Illustratio.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but uh they're great organizations and their annual meetings, man.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_04: Anade is fantastic, very family-oriented, very warm, you know.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_04: Well Liddy Gares Horphy, we went we want action, right?
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_04: All the time.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_04: We're thinking about the next the next skin that you're gonna carry, right?
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_04: Uh but also the Anade has that warmth feeling as well.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_04: So it's it's a good mix of of people, yeah.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_02: So he he teased us on it, he teased us about it like at least twice.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_02: So you're working at the consulate, you give your first case.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_04: Only because you asked for it.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_04: I know.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_04: We we want to hear about it.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_04: So but I mean, it it it it is related to the more people you know.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_04: You never know when the first where the next case is coming from.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_04: And so I joined Branton Wilson, I was learning the ropes and whatnot, and and then I received a call uh from the receptionist, someone in Spanish.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_04: Nobody at Brenton Wilson spoke Spanish, none of the attorneys but me.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_04: So I picked up the call, and it was a lady, very nice lady, and we spent about less than an hour talking about a cat, a neighbor's cat, who was jumping on her balcony and and killing her flowers, pinging on her flowers, and and and she wanted to kill the cat, so she wanted to know what would be the consequence of killing the cat, how to kill the cat, and not get caught.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm like, lady, you don't have to kill the police, don't kill the cat.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_04: You mean talk to your neighbor?
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, you're gonna get in trouble and whatnot.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_04: And so um again, I was I don't know, man, I was 28, 29.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_04: It was jo just after joining Procopio, maybe a year or so, and I didn't know anything, uh, like now.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_04: Um so maybe four months later I get another call and uh another Spanish speaking person pick up the phone, and it was it involved um a personal injury case where the gate, the the gate from uh from a garage door fell on someone and fractured uh a young lady's uh leg.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_04: So it was yeah, it was a good case.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_02: Better than the cat case.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_04: Definitely better than the cat case.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_04: So I was like super excited, right?
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_04: It was my first case, so I started writing down all the information and whatnot, and I asked this lady, ma'am, who referred you to me?
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_02: It was the cat lady lady.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_02: It was the cat lady.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_04: It was the cat lady, it was the cat lady, and and unfortunately, people who know me already know this story, especially with the younger crowd.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_04: But my message is you don't know.
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_04: Be be be be kind, be patient with with everyone, because you don't know when you know the next game is gonna the next is gonna come from.
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_02: That's a good lesson.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I would, I would uh, I don't I well, you were a young guy.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_02: Well, like right now, if you get that call, do you talk to her for an hour about her cat?
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_02: Probably we'll we'll cut it down after 20 minutes.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_02: But still that's pretty gracious.
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_03: But I feel like the fact that you're spending time, because that happens to me a lot too.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_03: They call me for all kinds of cases, right?
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_03: A lot of times, uh, you know, state, and then okay, who we can guide them to, and then you're that source, that you're that resource.
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_03: I feel one of the good things that we're doing with, you know, for example, the billboards, it's not we're just saying we're attorneys, we're not saying what kind of attorneys we are.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_03: But at least we want to be that resource.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it seems like you're that resource for like your firm.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_04: But yeah, I mean, uh for the consulate and uh I mean it's also about giving back to the community, right?
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_04: Um and people call you with they have uh serious problems for them, and uh they sound stressed and anxious, and you've been there and you're gonna be there at yourself, right?
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_04: And they, to the extent I cannot, when I say represent them is they uh they're not gonna retain me and I'm gonna take on their case and represent them in court and take the case through all its phases.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_04: Uh at least I want to give them some some peace, valuable information, warn them about the most important issues when like taking the white exambitious spotting, right?
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_04: Have you thought about this?
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_04: Have you thought about this?
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_04: Have you you know there are these other resources?
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_04: Hey, um like I've done a you know what, this is not a case that our firmware uh is able to handle.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_04: But what when you contact these these uh law firms, uh, including Adrian, including including Gomez.
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_04: Including Gomez.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, absolutely.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_04: And uh you want to be a resource to people because it's it's not about obviously it's not about uh making money.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_04: We'll we want to be paid for our work, right?
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_04: But it's also to give back to to those in need.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and I think uh those 20-minute conversations with people talking about cats and or whatnot, sometimes it's something more serious than a cat.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_04: Far more and more serious, and uh um to the extent I can I can help people because people have helped me, a lot of people have helped me to get to where I am.
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_04: Um it's it's a pleasure.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_02: And so we hear um some advice so far.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_02: We hear, you know, if you speak Spanish, continue to work on your Spanish.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, you know, language skills are important, you know, to be patient and kind and to all because you never know where a case is coming from is important, to give back is important.
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_02: You know, what other advice do you have for you know a younger or even not so young, even an older um listener, um, you know, thinking about how can I have success in my field?
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, um two pillars, and uh this might sound a little bit repetitive.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_04: Uh conduct yourself with respect and effort.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_04: Uh respect yourself and respect others, right?
• 57:05
  SPEAKER_04: Um and also, and that's what I try to I tell myself that every morning, and I try to do my best to do to do that, and also effort.
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_04: I mean it is it is about life is about effort.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_04: Um and uh the best things in life come through a lot of effort, and they they do, I have witnessed it, and that's that sounds very superficial, but if you sit down and think about it, uh each of us think about the things that we have actually achieved.
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_04: Um if if there was effort involved, um the the feeling of gratitude and value of that result is is definitely uh more, right?
• 57:52
  SPEAKER_04: More intense.
• 57:53
  SPEAKER_04: Agree.
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_04: Um and then and for for those uh I'm a member of the advisory board of the Crawford Law Academy.
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_04: Um what I tell the younger crowd.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_02: Is that affiliated with Crawford High School?
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, yes, so Crawford High School, kind of uh East San East San Diego kind of um, I would say urban socioeconomically challenged high school, been around a long time in San Diego.
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, and uh I was uh very fortunate to be invited to the advisory board, and I've uh uh I've done some mentorship at Crawford High School and uh and also some uh we were part of the uh the virtual internship uh program.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_04: Oh cool and it's uh it's an annual program for four to six weeks.
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_04: We we talk to high school students seniors about what we do about the law firm and and whatnot.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_04: Um what I tell them is and and the younger Mexico licensed attorneys who want to become licensed and practice in the US, what I tell them is if Adrian Martinez, who is not very smart, okay, was able to pass the bar exam uh with studying hard, then anyone can do it.
• 59:17
  SPEAKER_04: It is it's just about applying yourself, putting in the effort.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_04: Discipline and effort, yeah, discipline and effort.
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
• 59:25
  SPEAKER_04: That's that's kind of my and you and you can tell my children have heard that story thousands of times, and they're just tired.
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_02: Just be determined.
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_02: No, they listen.
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_02: They you don't think they're listening, you know, and you know, at least for my kids, my older kids, like I thought they just thought I was you know so full of hot air, you know.
• 59:46
  SPEAKER_02: But then they get to a point and you can tell, you know, and they realize that even if he was telling the truth, yeah.
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, a shout out to my son, he was admitted to UCSD.
• 59:56
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, congratulations.
• 59:57
  SPEAKER_04: He's great student, and my daughter, who's uh a freshman in high school, super dedicated.
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_04: She wants to be an attorney.
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_04: Excellent, yeah, and uh good, good, good guys, good students, great, great kids, and uh yeah, they they will listen eventually.
• 1:00:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_02: And so did that do do either of them play flag football?
• 1:00:18
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, well, my son did.
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_02: I saw you were like a coach.
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_04: I was a coach, uh go Bears, Chicago Bears.
• 1:00:27
  SPEAKER_04: No, I'm a huge Bears fan.
• 1:00:29
  SPEAKER_04: And uh, you know, um it was maybe 2019.
• 1:00:35
  SPEAKER_04: My son, um, one of the things we share is we we watch football.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_04: I love American football.
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_04: That's something I I used to do with my father.
• 1:00:43
  SPEAKER_04: Uh while in Mexico growing up, we was a Broncos fan.
• 1:00:46
  SPEAKER_04: I thought of Cowboys.
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_04: I thought the word Cowboys fan.
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_04: No, no, he was a John Elway, huge Elway fan.
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_02: Everybody was uh everybody in Mexico was a cowboys fan.
• 1:00:54
  SPEAKER_02: Or Steelers.
• 1:00:55
  SPEAKER_02: Or Steelers or Steelers, yeah.
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_02: For the the kicker, yeah, yeah.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly, exactly.
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_04: So he looked but he liked Elway.
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_04: He'll he love Elway.
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, he loved Elway, and uh uh but uh so my son in 2019, he was uh he was uh in middle school at Nashville school, and he told me, hey dad, we need uh a coach for flag football, and he had been talking about it for a while.
• 1:01:19
  SPEAKER_04: So I thought it was a good opportunity to spend more time with him and get to know his classmates.
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, man, if there's there's something I enjoy a lot of practicing law.
• 1:01:31
  SPEAKER_04: Probably the second thing I love the most is coaching younger kids, man.
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_04: I I loved it, I loved it, and uh and and uh the team was composed of very good athletes, athletes.
• 1:01:44
  SPEAKER_04: Uh and uh and we went um so NASRA is a Catholic school, so we uh played against other Catholic schools, middle schools, and um we made it to the semifinal and then we were torched by another another school.
• 1:02:01
  SPEAKER_04: And and one of the things I realized that's that the the the that game that we lost uh semi-finals, it was a high school size field, so it's wider.
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_04: It was far more.
• 1:02:16
  SPEAKER_04: You weren't used to that.
• 1:02:16
  SPEAKER_04: We weren't used to that.
• 1:02:17
  SPEAKER_04: So uh so then the pen we had the COVID in 2020.
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_04: In 2021, when my son was uh last year of middle school, they invited me to coach again, okay?
• 1:02:31
  SPEAKER_04: And I accepted, and I made them run in the preparation for the season, yeah.
• 1:02:37
  SPEAKER_04: And they they everybody hated me.
• 1:02:39
  SPEAKER_04: Actually, my son told me, Dad, you're being too tough on us.
• 1:02:42
  SPEAKER_04: Everybody's not being tough on me.
• 1:02:44
  SPEAKER_04: Why is your intelligence trying to crucify us, you know, and whatnot?
• 1:02:48
  SPEAKER_04: You're gonna see why.
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_04: At the end of the season, we and we we won it all.
• 1:02:54
  SPEAKER_04: We were the champions, we were invited to play the champions, championship at uh St.
• 1:03:01
  SPEAKER_04: Costins at Saintsfield.
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, of course.
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_04: Uh and we we won it all.
• 1:03:06
  SPEAKER_04: It was one of the the biggest uh you know uh achievements uh watching these young younger uh men, young men uh doing their best and putting all the effort and believing in themselves, you know, and uh and seeing in their in their eyes that we could win it all, and trusting themselves.
• 1:03:29
  SPEAKER_04: And uh I think this they that game is is on YouTube.
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_04: So if you want to watch it, I'll see you link, man.
• 1:03:35
  SPEAKER_03: And then over.
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_02: That's the effort thing.
• 1:03:37
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you get more satisfaction from things that we put effort into.
• 1:03:41
  SPEAKER_02: You know, they train hard, ran hard all season, and there you go.
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_02: They're probably at the end, you know, uh, you were pretty popular.
• 1:03:48
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, you know, everywhere I went in school.
• 1:03:51
  SPEAKER_04: Hey coach, what you know, that was that was that was great.
• 1:03:54
  SPEAKER_04: And obviously, uh I spent more time with my son, which was fantastic.
• 1:03:59
  SPEAKER_04: And uh yeah, that was that was great.
• 1:04:01
  SPEAKER_04: So it was a great experience, yeah.
• 1:04:03
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I think that's a good place to end, you know, with the championship.
• 1:04:07
  SPEAKER_02: Of course.
• 1:04:07
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it can't get any better than that.
• 1:04:09
  SPEAKER_02: And um, you know, we heard about uh discipline and effort, you know, those are two really um important things to me.
• 1:04:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I think they're simple things, you know, but they're super effective and I think provide a lot of guidance.
• 1:04:24
  SPEAKER_02: So um thank you to you um for sharing your incredible story, Adriana.
• 1:04:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like that just this kid down in Mexico can like dream of coming up here, you know, and say, hey, I'm gonna give it a go, and then um not even have the funds to to you know go to law school up here to do a graduate program, study on your own, get in, that's discipline and effort to find.
• 1:04:47
  SPEAKER_02: So, congratulations, you know, how how incredible, you know, that you were able to do everything that you've been able to do.
• 1:04:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so it's an honor for us to have you on the podcast.
• 1:05:00
  SPEAKER_02: Look forward to all kinds of things to come, including, you know, just Monday, we're gonna spend some great time with you and a great program that you put together.
• 1:05:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so thank you so much for sharing your time with us.
• 1:05:12
  SPEAKER_04: No, thank you.
• 1:05:13
  SPEAKER_04: And my final comment is all those uh great things that uh I've achieved, there was there were a lot of people uh behind me and next to me, pushing me, pulling me, supporting me, just like people like you, John, and who who who gave me the opportunity, from my parents to my teachers, to whoever, and I'm that's why I'm eager to help others because uh that's what people have done for me.
• 1:05:39
  SPEAKER_04: So, and thank you so much for having me.
• 1:05:41
  SPEAKER_04: It has been a pleasure.
• 1:05:42
  SPEAKER_04: I enjoyed very much the conversations.
• 1:05:44
  SPEAKER_04: As you we know, uh Hispanics tend to be very, very verbose, and I wasn't the exception.
• 1:05:50
  SPEAKER_04: That's why my answers were very long winded, but uh, it is a pleasure to to be with you and associated with your firm.
• 1:05:56
  SPEAKER_02: No, the answers were perfect, and so if people want to.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_02: Find out more about you, get in contact with you, how would they find you?
• 1:06:05
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, my email address is Adrian, that's my first name, dot Martinez, my last name with a Z at the end, at Procopio.com.
• 1:06:15
  SPEAKER_04: And um, you can also find um my firm's information at procopio.com.
• 1:06:20
  SPEAKER_02: Awesome.
• 1:06:21
  SPEAKER_02: And so just uh so our viewers know what what are the the span of services that Procopio provides and how big is that law firm?
• 1:06:30
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, the firm is just under 200 attorneys.
• 1:06:34
  SPEAKER_04: We are full um service firm.
• 1:06:37
  SPEAKER_04: I I think it's easier to say which areas of the law we don't do, right?
• 1:06:41
  SPEAKER_04: Criminal law, uh workers' comp, immigration.
• 1:06:44
  SPEAKER_04: Um I think that's for the most part what we don't do.
• 1:06:50
  SPEAKER_04: And we uh with with um with some exceptions, I would say we're kind of business oriented, in the sense, for example, the the uh uh the labor and employment team represents employers.
• 1:07:02
  SPEAKER_04: Employers.
• 1:07:03
  SPEAKER_04: But employees are very well represented by law firms like yours.
• 1:07:06
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, yes.
• 1:07:07
  SPEAKER_04: And and so on.
• 1:07:08
  SPEAKER_04: There are some other areas like mine, family law, and and commercial litigation, business litigation, where represent the plaintiff or the defendant, depending on the circumstances.
• 1:07:17
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:07:18
  SPEAKER_02: Amazing.
• 1:07:19
  SPEAKER_02: So uh who knows, maybe you get a case or two out of this, or at least a contact or two.
• 1:07:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, of course.
• 1:07:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so thank you for being here.
• 1:07:26
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you as always, David.
• 1:07:28
  SPEAKER_02: Of course.
• 1:07:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so like after listening to all that and all the relationships that he's made by virtue of you know being an adjunct professor, which way are you leaning?
• 1:07:40
  SPEAKER_03: So I was already interested in it.
• 1:07:42
  SPEAKER_03: And I think one of the interesting things is the fact that it's taught in Spanish.
• 1:07:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 1:07:45
  SPEAKER_03: So to me, that would be great because again, I mean virtual, you can do it from the house.
• 1:07:49
  SPEAKER_03: I can do it from the house early morning, 7 to 9 a.m., I believe.
• 1:07:52
  SPEAKER_03: I brought the contract to recruit you.
• 1:07:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:07:58
  SPEAKER_03: So it's definitely uh definitely very interesting, but I'll definitely you know talk to you more on that because it definitely piqued my uh interest.
• 1:08:05
  SPEAKER_02: Awesome.
• 1:08:06
  SPEAKER_02: Well, we'll see.
• 1:08:07
  SPEAKER_02: We'll see if uh this podcast has led to two jobs for you.
• 1:08:12
  SPEAKER_03: It's a good source of income.
• 1:08:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but in the meanwhile, you know, if you like what you heard, you know, please subscribe, please share.
• 1:08:19
  SPEAKER_03: Wait, John, also trauma.
• 1:08:21
  SPEAKER_03: Huh?
• 1:08:21
  SPEAKER_03: Also trauma question.
• 1:08:22
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I know what he's gonna say though.
• 1:08:24
  SPEAKER_02: So have you ever listened to uh Cracks, the podcast with Oso Tava?
• 1:08:29
  SPEAKER_04: Uh I know who he is, and my mom loves him, and I haven't uh I haven't uh seen him.
• 1:08:37
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, but anyways, like at the end of the podcast, he always asked the guests, you know, if you were able to write in the sky words for everyone to see, you know, what would your message to the world be?
• 1:08:53
  SPEAKER_02: Is it's a message, uh one word or a message?
• 1:08:56
  SPEAKER_02: However, you want to do it, anything guidance, wisdom, message.
• 1:09:05
  SPEAKER_02: I like it.
• 1:09:06
  SPEAKER_02: Let us respect each other.
• 1:09:08
  SPEAKER_02: I thought it might be um discipline effort, but I like I like respect.
• 1:09:12
  SPEAKER_02: I think that falls into that same, you know, um trilogy of like sort of very important guiding posts.
• 1:09:22
  SPEAKER_02: So I think if we add that, if we have discipline, effort, and respect, you got it all.
• 1:09:29
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you, thank you, my my friend.
• 1:09:31
  SPEAKER_02: It's been an honor.
• 1:09:32
  SPEAKER_02: And so uh, folks, if you like what you heard today, please share, please like, please comment, um, please look us up.
• 1:09:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, we are all in this to help each other and to get better every day.
• 1:09:44
  SPEAKER_02: It's been a privilege and a pleasure.
• 1:09:46
  SPEAKER_02: So um, this is it for this episode of the Latino podcast.
• 1:09:51
  SPEAKER_02: Signing off.