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Professional & Scholarly Development with Kyle Znamenak · OD Learning Lab

• Dr. Anthony Adkisson: All right. Well, good morning. Welcome to the OD Learning Podcast, a podcast where we explore the intersection of adult learning, leadership, and organizational development. I am your co-host, Dr. Anthony Ackerson, and today I'm joined by my colleague, Dr. Kyle Zeminek. So welcome, Kyle. Good to see you. Dr. Kyle Znamenak: Well, great to be here. Really, ⁓ I think the tables have turned. I'm being interviewed today, so this will be fun. Dr. Anthony Adkisson: Yeah, looking forward to it looking forward to our conversation. So before we jump into our conversation today I want to call to attention that this is our first time using this platform the Versailles platform and the first time us adding video to this conversation So really looking forward to using the features and getting to know the features of this podcast yeah, I think it's something new for us. We are by no means experts on this So there will be some bumps along the way, but yeah looking forward to using this new platform Dr. Kyle Znamenak: I do too. Hopefully, yeah, goes smoothly. This is our test run. Dr. Anthony Adkisson: Exactly. So we've received some feedback from the three podcasts that we've done so far. Like I said, we're not experts in this, but we received some feedback about making it more of a conversational tone. So we will definitely take that feedback and really appreciate that from our colleagues and friends. So yeah, looking forward to jumping into this conversation today with you, Dr. Zemanak, ⁓ Kyle, Dr. Z. also want to bring up the fact that you made a mention of once of my first initial being A. and your initial being Z. So it's going to be a podcast where we've learned everything from A to Z. So I think we've to get a tagline like that in there somewhere. Dr. Kyle Znamenak: Totally, I agree with that. Yes, we definitely have to bring in our last names in there. And then A through Z, although I think Amazon might have cornered the market on that, they don't do learning. So we can push against that. Dr. Anthony Adkisson: Yeah, you're right. ⁓ yeah. So, you know, out there in podcast land or whatever we call this, if you have suggestions, please let us know. we're going to start today just by getting to know you. And maybe I think, you know, what we'll do is talk a little bit about how we've gotten to know each other. I think, you know, as we've come to do this podcast and are still learning it and doing things, I think it'd be interesting to share with listeners and viewers now, you know, a little bit about our history and sort of how we got to know one another. So. I'm gonna toss it to you if you wanna kick us off with that. Dr. Kyle Znamenak: Yeah, so from what I believe, so this is like, this is the fun thing, an exercise of reconstructive memory, right? So if we're to go into cognitive psychology. I believe we met ⁓ I was working at a coffee shop during my undergrad. So I worked ⁓ at really ⁓ awesome shop that was in the LGBT community ⁓ called And so Truffles was this spot where if you want to talk about third spaces where people would meet, gather, Dr. Anthony Adkisson: Right. Yeah. Dr. Kyle Znamenak: And also it was really good like alternative to like the bar scene as well. So, I was a barista there during my undergrad. You came in, ordered some coffee. have conversations. I'm trying to think what, what, do you recall from a good old truffles? Dr. Anthony Adkisson: Yeah. Yeah, that's exactly what I recall. It was a space that I just enjoyed being a part of. I was kind of newer to the Cleveland scene, out of a relationship. And so I would always go to that space. It was right behind my house here in Cleveland, Ohio or my apartment. ⁓ I just remember always going there, having coffee. And this is back before the days, ancient days, before we had smartphones. So you would just kind of go there with a book, have conversations and chat with people. So you weren't looking at your phone. You were just actually having conversations with people. But yeah. That's what I remember. And then I transitioned to a number of years later, probably maybe like seven, eight or nine years. But we had a conversation about my being in the doctoral program at Cleveland State. And you were looking into the doctoral program at Cleveland State. So you were just starting it and I was just ending it. And so we had conversations there about, you your interest in it. And I kind of poked and prodded you to say, yeah, let's do it. You should do it. Dr. Kyle Znamenak: Yeah, definitely. And I think it was a Cranes article. So Cleveland Cranes, which is a business publication in Cleveland that I saw, it was your doctoral research ⁓ the reentry program. And I think I remember it mentioning specifically your work within, one, it being your doctoral research, but also because ⁓ grounded in adult learning and the Cleveland State program, like kind of helped you with that. Dr. Anthony Adkisson: Mm-hmm. Right, yeah. Yeah, I forgot about that. A horrible picture. I don't know why that just popped in my head. But yeah, I remember that article talking about my work that I did with towards employment at a local nonprofit here in Cleveland, Ohio that does work with reentry. And I was fortunate enough to have opportunity to do my research there with the population. So yeah, that was good. Cool. Dr. Kyle Znamenak: Hahaha Definitely. So that's how we know each other. And then we came up with this idea. We wanted to do a podcast. ⁓ And specifically because of our backgrounds in adult learning and adult education, your ⁓ in technical assistance and coming from a practitioner standpoint, and then me ⁓ being somewhat recent to, I mean, I've been working in academia for some time, but more recent into a faculty role going on three years now. We it was a good place for us to kind of Dr. Anthony Adkisson: Mm-hmm. Right. Dr. Kyle Znamenak: bridge the gap between that practitioner. So you coming from that practitioner standpoint and then me coming from the academic. Although truth be told, I think we're a little bit of both. both your little academic. I'm a little practitioner. So it's not like we're the odd couple here. Dr. Anthony Adkisson: Mm-hmm. Yeah. is right. exactly. And I think that that's a great lens for us to come through because I think a lot of people ⁓ are in the field of adult learning and adult education have a little bit of both and probably lean one side to the other on the spectrum. ⁓ I think it brings in a good lens for us to really have really in-depth conversations about sort of what that theoretical side is on the academic side. But then how does that theory actually get placed into the lived experiences of the adult learners and those that we work with within the community? So yeah, I'm looking forward to these conversations and kind of diving deep into them and yeah, going from there. So really appreciate you inviting me to the podcast. Dr. Kyle Znamenak: Yep, glad to have you and your expertise and lived experience. Dr. Anthony Adkisson: Yeah, so for today's conversation, we're to learn a little bit about you. We had the opportunity opportunity to learn a little bit about me several months ago when I did a podcast on technical assistance. I've listened to it. I would love to go back and redo it, but that's at a later date. ⁓ think the car. ⁓ Dr. Kyle Znamenak: I think we say that about our dissertations as well. Like after we do our dissertations and we start to have a little bit more experience, we're like, oh geez, I wish I could revisit that. Dr. Anthony Adkisson: Right, exactly. Especially as you're listening to your voice, you're like, oh gosh, what was I thinking when I said that? anyway, I think today what we want for our audience is not only to learn about us and our relationship and how we know one another, but learn a little bit about your background and sort of what brings you to this space and what your interests are. So really looking forward to diving in and having a conversation with you about your academic experience, your practitioner experience, and sort of what brings you into this space. I guess my first question is, can you share a little bit about what first drew you to academia and research and specifically your interest in adult learning? Dr. Kyle Znamenak: Yeah, definitely. So I would say adult learning came to me by surprise. didn't know about the field at first. ⁓ interest within academia came from my undergrad experience at Baldwin Wallace University, in which I was a psychology major. You could even call me like a lab rat because I was really into psychology research. Like I was one of those students that I was like, hey, I want to do, we have one thesis requirement. I decided to do two thesis, theses. Dr. Anthony Adkisson: Okay. Dr. Kyle Znamenak: ⁓ so that was fun. but I was really into, cross-cultural psychology, learning psychology as well as understanding the innate traits that individuals have. So kind of looking at that nature versus nurture debate. And so I was really interested in that. ⁓ And then my undergrad experience, got involved in research, got involved with, GSA, which is a gay straight student alliance allies. Dr. Anthony Adkisson: Okay. Dr. Kyle Znamenak: in which I was doing one, taking a leadership role, learning about leadership, but also doing training for ⁓ as well as dorms around like safe spaces or just around the LGBT community that individuals didn't know about. So flash after my undergrad, the recession hits, I'm not able to find a job and I'm like, ⁓ I can't find a job. So I ended up working at ⁓ Dr. Anthony Adkisson: Thank Dr. Kyle Znamenak: that time of borders, because that's what academics would do. When you couldn't find a job after your undergrad, you would work at a co- So yeah, yeah, yeah, who is, what is borders? Yeah. So if, if, if you know a Barnes and Noble, there used to be a competitor, competitor, Borders, which were not a business, unfortunately. I worked there. But I found out about the diversity management program at Cleveland state, which was more of a practitioner based program. And Dr. Anthony Adkisson: What's that? You you Dr. Kyle Znamenak: It interested me because of the cross-cultural differences. And so I ended up applying to that program, got to learn about process consulting, which is really about empowering clients into making their own decisions. I'll learn about facilitation, organization development. really that practitioner ⁓ also heavily ⁓ rooted Gestalt. so through that I had to do a practicum experience in which I did like a training program for a private college in which I worked with a facilitation team, was able to do that. So a lot of these types of experiences were kind of building up this adult learning leadership and organization development, but I didn't really necessarily know about it. And then I worked at Cleveland State as a research associate later in my career. And I had the opportunity to apply for a PhD program there in the adult learning. Dr. Anthony Adkisson: Hmm Yeah. Dr. Kyle Znamenak: which I learned about through a conversation with Dr. Anthony Atkinson. Yeah, so going back to that. then so I felt that it really kind of resonated with my experience, I had. And then also it started leading towards my scholarship in which I let at this point in time, I'm more a scholar practitioner, but at that point in time, I was practitioner. Dr. Anthony Adkisson: Mm-hmm. Okay, all right. Very interesting. And I think, you know, we've talked about this in some aspects before, but very similar overlaps in terms of our history and practice. And similarly, I went in and an undergrad in psychology. After my undergrad, I was like, I want nothing else to do with psychology. I didn't want to do it no more. And so that's when I went into nonprofits and for a number of years started working into nonprofits. And similarly, adult learning came into my space and someone introduced me to it. I had no idea about it, but I was really interested in sort of that training, understanding how create trainings and programs and curriculums for adult learners. So yeah, very interesting similarities. ⁓ What would you say now that you're in the field, what informs your academic practice? Dr. Kyle Znamenak: So I would definitely say my work is informed by being able to develop research that could be put into action. So I'm definitely not a scholar that looks at research and looks at theory for theory's sake. I really want to be able to use theory and apply it. And so I have two lines of research at this point in time that I'm really interested in. One is police officer development. around community relations. And I kind of fell into that when I was at Cleveland State because I was given an opportunity to co-develop a police officer training program called Building Mutual Respect and Community Trust. And I was the research associate for that. So I was looking at best practices, research articles, as well as helping ⁓ co-facilitate training. And so through that experience, I was like, what? is the theory that's undergrewing all this. And I found out that there wasn't necessarily anything there at this point in time. I mean, there's practitioner-based articles. There are research articles, but not a specific theory when it comes to the professional development at officers, specifically within community relations. And that's what my doctoral research really focused on. The second line of research that I'm really interested in, Dr. Anthony Adkisson: Okay. Dr. Kyle Znamenak: the scholarly development ⁓ students, faculty members, just individuals that want to become scholars. And so looking at that process, and that happened again because of my experience while ⁓ during doctoral experience and looking at specifically how navigate their scholarly development ⁓ and how as a community to develop it. And I think your research kind of coincides with that as well with your work. And specifically, I work with lot of community of practices when it comes to scholarly development. Dr. Anthony Adkisson: Mm-hmm. Right, right, right. Can you say a little bit now, know, since you have graduated Cleveland State program and you've gone on to develop more of a scholarly practice, what is it that you're doing right now? Dr. Kyle Znamenak: Yeah, definitely. So I am a clinical faculty member at the University of Idaho. And so I work with masters level and PhD level students. So I work in that capacity. I also am continuing to do those lines of research that I was talking about. But specifically now I'm looking at one, exploring ethics and policing is an area that I'm writing an article on at this point in time. looking at a specific experiential learning program and how experiential learning could potentially become a transformative learning experience for officers. then I'm doing a lot, a lot of work in scholarly development ⁓ I'm working with a lot of students that are interested in that topic and so we're collaborating on research. Dr. Anthony Adkisson: Great, well thank you. earlier you said a little bit about your work around communities of practice. I'm wondering if you can share a little bit about how you've seen the level of identity development, whether professional or academic, ⁓ within these communities of practice. And is that something that you've witnessed seen? And if you can share a little bit about that. Dr. Kyle Znamenak: Yeah, definitely. one, I would, one way that I would approach this is that my work within communities of practice really involve autoethnography. And the reason why I say that's really important is because when are going through either an individual or a collaborative experience, if they're able to reflect on it, when we look at experiential learning, transformative learning, Dr. Anthony Adkisson: Mm-hmm. Dr. Kyle Znamenak: They're able to create more meaning out of that experience to see what they learned and if it became a transformative experience for them. so when looking at communities of practice, the research that I have done has really been in that autoethnography realm. And so looking at how people perceive their own development when it comes to scholarly development. And so a lot of that, what I've learned is that the collaborative space within communities of practice really help foster that. in PhD programs, that's great, it does work, but I would also say specifically in online programs in which students don't necessarily have those collaborative opportunities like they would, like that in-person, one-on-one, working on research, talking through problems, have to be more intentional in that space. And so these opportunities Dr. Anthony Adkisson: you Dr. Kyle Znamenak: with communities of practice, allow them to have that space. When it comes to professional identity, I think there's a whole realm of research that could be explored in that space. There has been a little bit where I've seen it with police officers. came up within some of my research in which they've created spaces where there's kind of a learning community in which they problem shoot Dr. Anthony Adkisson: Mm-hmm. Dr. Kyle Znamenak: areas within community relations, like they talk through things, they talk about the day to day that they experience on the beat. And so it becomes more of this troubleshooting kind ⁓ place for them. But I think there's still ⁓ ripe of research in which we can look at where do communities of practice happen within these types of organizations. ⁓ And specifically, interested in within police departments. Dr. Anthony Adkisson: Yeah. Yeah, very similar. think I would say I'm very interested in community of practice and how they work within particularly like social service organizations and how do you see that professional identity being developed for individuals who are practitioners within the space. So I think oftentimes what ends up happening, you you shared a little bit about, you know, how you develop that scholarly and academic identity. But then once people leave that space and go into their jobs and go into their positions, how can organizations continue to help individuals further their education, further their knowledge, and further themselves in that space to continue to learn. And I think it's one of those things, as we talk about in adult learning, that learning is lifelong. It just doesn't stop simply because you're in school. But once you go into your position, whether it's as a facilitator, trainer, case manager, workforce, whatever that profession is, how do you continue to learn? How do you continue to learn best practices and evidence-based models? from those in the field. I think communities of practice, to your point, has a lot more research that could be done to really explore that and how do we continue to help that identity develop for individuals as they kind of go off throughout their career. Dr. Kyle Znamenak: Yeah, and I think that's an excellent point. And there is one thing that we talked about from the previous podcast with Katherine Hansman. You mentioned kind of the sharing of social capital that happens within communities of practice. And I think that's another area that needs to be explored. ⁓ The other thing that I think it would be interesting to see, to your point about how, you know, when there's a community of practice, it comes together through the domain, a shared concern, passion or practice within the community. Dr. Anthony Adkisson: Mm-hmm. Dr. Kyle Znamenak: the community itself in which there's the members interacting, and then there's for practice, which is a shared of resources, ways of doing things, right? When people leave that community of practice, right? So for example, you left the community of practice when you, although you're still kind of community of practice adjacent, when left Cleveland State. But there's also kind of like, where does the community of practice fracture? Not fracture, but like when there's dyads where, ⁓ Dr. Anthony Adkisson: Right. you Dr. Kyle Znamenak: peer mentorship could come into play. So maybe in that community of practice, individuals learned as the community, but when they broke apart, there were certain members that they still go to in order to have those conversations. So I think that there's right for research and I've seen that in action for sure. I mean, that's like happening with us right now. Dr. Anthony Adkisson: Thank you. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I think that you hit upon something that, you know, obviously, and we've written about this a little bit and done some research around the community of practice that was developed with my colleagues at Cleveland State and how we came together as a group. But we were each at different points within our professional and academic experience. And as some of us were transitioning out of that community of practice, then you were coming in. So being able to bring you in. And I think that there are sort of, you know, splits. and splits in sort of different directions that people take in terms of their learning, but in terms of their relationships and sort of the mentoring that happens for people who are at different stages in their career that happen. So I think that that's a very interesting topic to kind of look at and see how those developed and overlap with that and mentoring. Yeah. Yeah. what would you say are some professional ⁓ development experiences, either as a learner, facilitator, academic that, you know, most shaped you're thinking. Dr. Kyle Znamenak: That's a great question. So I would definitely say from a theoretical standpoint, Andra Goji is like, me has really hit the nail on that ⁓ it comes to working with adult learners. And the reason why is while I was ⁓ at Cleveland State program, ⁓ was about the, before I was talking about the building mutual respect and community trust police officer training program. Dr. Anthony Adkisson: Mm-hmm. Dr. Kyle Znamenak: I was able to see how developing that program specifically with, so to have a frank conversation, when someone goes into an organization like a police department or even a medical facility or a hospital where you're working with individuals that have their own lived experience and expertise, it can be a challenge to work with those individuals when you're someone from the outside. So for example, me coming in, being a Hey, I'm an academic. Let's talk about training police officers and community relations. And they're like, who are you? Why are you here? You don't know me. You don't know my field. Right. And so learning about andriagoji and learning how to the application of it, facilitating meaningful learning ⁓ learning opportunities. I learned that within that training, one, we had to have a police officer there. We had to have someone that's going to be co-facilitating with us that has that expertise. Dr. Anthony Adkisson: Mm-hmm. Dr. Kyle Znamenak: But secondly, it's really about honoring the experience that's in that room. ⁓ So when we're working with adult learners and we don't honor their experience, we don't air them out, you're just gonna get a bunch of resistance because they have their own way of approaching things. And it also, as a facilitator or as an adult educator, you're also losing valuable data that you can Dr. Anthony Adkisson: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Dr. Kyle Znamenak: integrate within your training, right? So in the moment. And so those are the big things that kind of influenced. It's really that andragogy from that my adult learning program and then working with police officers. The other thing that I mentioned before too is the GSA experience that I had. That really rooted me into this. Dr. Anthony Adkisson: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Dr. Kyle Znamenak: creating inclusive environments, knowing that all the learners that are in that room might have different experiences. And that's great. That brings diversity in the room. There's diversity of And ⁓ those two experiences really kind of sparked or really kind of undergird my approach adult learning and adult education. Dr. Anthony Adkisson: Yeah, and I think that's so important because you said several things that I kind of want to pull out there, but it's about psychological safety. It's about safe spaces. It's about creating that space for the learners to feel comfortable, comfortable with you as a facilitator, as an academic or whatever that, you know, experiences that you're bringing into that situation. But if we are truly about educating adult learners, it's a matter of them feeling safe, feeling comfortable. And I think that that's where that, you know, moment of transformation happens is when they feel comfortable sharing. So whatever it is that we're doing as facilitators and educators, it's a matter of making sure that the individuals feel safe, comfortable, heard, and that their experience is brought forward. Because that is where rich data, the rich information ⁓ And it's not so much even about the data that's being collected. It's about how do we transform this person's lives and how do we help them feel heard and feel safe within that conversation in terms of the work we're doing. Dr. Kyle Znamenak: And Gestalt would say is really focusing on creating a vessel that allows that safety to happen. And in this context, the vessel is the group dynamics, the training itself, laying ground rules, right? So saying like, we're going to have some tough conversations, we're going to be doing A, B, and C. Sometimes one I've used is like, let's brainstorm some group rules right now about ⁓ engaging this kind of critical dialogue. because it allows that space. And it's also kind of showing within that vessel, the facilitator being vulnerable. Like a lot of times, we as well, this is over generalized. Well, I don't want to over generalize here, but sometimes there is the resistance from someone that is in a facilitator or a teaching role. Dr. Anthony Adkisson: Mm-hmm. Good evening. Dr. Kyle Znamenak: to be vulnerable and say, no, I don't know that answer or, ⁓ I messed up there. You know what, let me correct myself or that's a really good point. I didn't think about that because we always want to be this, not always. Some people want to be teacher centered, right? Where they have to focus on themselves. They're concerned that they have to come off as like authoritarian. They have to be the expert versus like andriagoji flips it. We're all in this together. We're figuring this out. Dr. Anthony Adkisson: Yes. Great. Yeah. And I found that being the case, in times where as an adjunct, I've taught with students in, particularly if I'm teaching in an online space where mistakes are gonna happen. And I, as the educator, have to be comfortable saying, ⁓ you know what, that was a mistake on my part, got that wrong. But also just showing vulnerability. And I think that when you show that to learners and to students in that space, your willingness to be vulnerable and open creates better dialogue and trust. within the learners to know that you're human too and you're going to make mistakes. So yeah, I really agree. So far in our podcast, we've talked about mentoring, we've talked about technical assistance, we're talking a little bit about professional development. Where do you see these topics intersecting in terms of what advice would you give to the field in terms of cultivating sort of Dr. Kyle Znamenak: Trust, trust is huge. Dr. Anthony Adkisson: further research within these spaces and thinking about, you know, sort of how they overlap. Dr. Kyle Znamenak: I wish I was as elegant as what you did when you were talking about your technical assistants, where you're talking about the metaphor of the kitchen. But I would say this, they all go together. And so when we talk about professional development, professional development is not just you're getting your credential, you're good. It's an evolving field where people are learning and the practice changes consistently. ⁓ Dr. Anthony Adkisson: Right, so you mean just because I get the certificate, that's not the end of it? That's not end all be all? Dr. Kyle Znamenak: No, no, no, not the end all be all, unfortunately. so what's really interesting about professional development is that, you you get this credential, you want to continue your education, that lifelong learning piece, right? And so one way to do that lifelong learning is through mentorship, right? So you're going in an organization, maybe, and you're learning about the organization or navigating that organization. You can get a mentor to do that. You can get mentors for a lot of other things too, but specifically with an organization, we have mentors in that space. Coaches, right? Coaching through the process of navigating tough organizational issues, as well as life issues as well, right? And then assistance about how do we use the tools that are available to us, right? In order to achieve the outcomes that we want, right? And so these all are kind of going together and all undergirding this is adult learning, right? Organization development as well, if we're going to do in the context of organization development, as well as leadership. ⁓ so I think when it comes to this podcast, we're really kind of, I'm not saying we're, we're not scaffolding the experience per se, because we're not saying like, do this and that and this and that, or we're kind of giving a menu of tools or a menu of options for individuals. Dr. Anthony Adkisson: Mm-hmm. Dr. Kyle Znamenak: in order to navigate whatever type of problem that they're trying to navigate at that point in time. And that could be organizational, it could be leadership, it could be research, anything. Dr. Anthony Adkisson: Yeah Yeah, yeah. I think what I love about that is, and I'm going to go back to this word, and I'll probably say this too much when I go back and look at it, it's just a lived experience. It's about the lived experience. And I think one of the things that I have always pulled from adult learning is that there are the theories in the books. There are the academics. There are the theoretical ideas. But those theories come to life when you look at it in terms of the lived experience. You sometimes don't get that until you have the conversations and see the intersections that happen between these different fields. So you could have a field that's mentoring. You could have something that's technical assistance, professional development, and to your point, there's overlaps and intersections between them. And so what I'm hoping this space becomes is that place where people can begin thinking about what those intersections are, what their interests are, and feel comfortable to have those open conversations and dialogue to dive a little bit deeper. that just because you see the theory in the book, okay, great. You can talk about the constructiveness theory. All right, but what does that mean in actual practice? And I will say, in my own academic experience, it was great to be able to read that in a book. And it's like, okay, I think I've done some of that. But then to go back and think about how do I apply that as a facilitator and trainer when I'm working with people in a space every day. ⁓ it's not as easy as it looks in the book because you're working with people's real lives. always fires that you're putting out as a trainer as an educator as a program manager So what does that look like to actually construct that and help individuals through that in the real space? So yeah I'm hoping that this space becomes a place and space where we can talk about that and help people explore What that looks like and how to begin developing that within their organizations in ⁓ the theories Dr. Kyle Znamenak: Yeah, definitely. And I think this space also, and we've seen this already in action, where we start to identify, because we're talking about, well, me, I'm not a leading researcher yet, maybe eventually, knock, knock, knock. But with these leading researchers and these scholars in the community, through our conversations, we're also identifying some research gaps. And for example, when you were talking to Catherine Hansman, and you like, What are the tools? What's the tool bag? Because you're coming from the technical assistance standpoint, when it comes to mentorship. And she's like, well, there really isn't anything at this point in time in the scholarship. And you identified that gap in that moment. Dr. Anthony Adkisson: That's right. We're supposed to go back and talk about that some more. think that was the topic. So, File safe. Yes. Yeah, thank you. Very good point. But to that point also, you know, as we talk about research gaps, what do you see are some trends within professional development that are sort of, you know, as we think about we're in 2026 now and the future and things with AI and all that. So what are some trends that you see within? Dr. Kyle Znamenak: It'll eventually happen amongst- I'll see it. We have the transcript now. Dr. Anthony Adkisson: professional development that maybe those who are in the field maybe should think about. Dr. Kyle Znamenak: Yeah, I mean, you just said it, right? You just took it away. mean, so AI is our biggest challenge right now when it comes to professional development. And so there's, I don't know, there's, there's a school of thought where people are resistant to it. And I get it because there are potentially like, if you go to, I think the websites will robots take my job, right? So some jobs will potentially be replaced by AI. They won't exist any longer. Dr. Anthony Adkisson: Sorry. Dr. Kyle Znamenak: And then there are roles in which AI is going to complement. And I think that order to get ahead of the AI curve, ⁓ it's consistently evolving, is that professional development or individuals that are just work professionals or professionals in general need to have an understanding of AI. and they have to have it so that they're able to apply it to whatever type of role that they're doing. Because if they're not, there's the potential that they're going to make it in the job market later down the line because the AI is going to be required. So I think that's the biggest thing. and there's limitations. That's the other thing I should say about this too, is that Dr. Anthony Adkisson: Mm-hmm. Dr. Kyle Znamenak: in those types of development opportunities in which AI is being used or learning about AI, we also need to create critical thinking when it comes to AI use and when AI is giving us bogus answers, hallucinations, pointing us to the wrong resources. So we still have to have a foundational knowledge on whatever subject area that we have ⁓ in order to know that whatever output, whatever that we're using the AI for Dr. Anthony Adkisson: Mm-hmm. Dr. Kyle Znamenak: the tool is it's actually going to be truthful to the extent that it can be. The reason why I can give an example. So I think a recent article was shared with me from that. ⁓ I was talking about the building mutual respect community trust. So ⁓ the the police officer sent me an article about how AI is using for police officer notes, right? So every time ⁓ officer has to write a report, Dr. Anthony Adkisson: Mm-hmm. you Dr. Kyle Znamenak: I mean, it's a tedious process. So they're starting to use AI to do that. And there was a concern that within that, it's not going to be accurate, right? And so what really happens there is that eventually AI, and I know this for a fact too, is like AI is being used for notes across the board. It's being used for career development. So if you're seeing a career, a coach, AI is being used for that. If you're seeing a therapist, they're also using AI for their notes too. If you're seeing a doctor, they're using AI. Dr. Anthony Adkisson: Mm-hmm. Dr. Kyle Znamenak: ⁓ And so what really is important to know is that to be critical about that output and be trained on that so not you're not just trusting AI blindly. But also, and this was the point, this is what the officer said. He's like, supervisors are also put into, they should be review the notes for accountability. And so there should also be accountability mechanisms built into whatever, even if you're using like, so for AI for the notes, great. but also AI for training. Create some type of review process where you're working with other individuals within that organization to see if it's true or not, right, based on their experience. And this is all foundational stuff. That's like the planning table right then and there. That's about accountability. It's about evaluation. So those are kind of the perspectives. Dr. Anthony Adkisson: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Great. Yeah, 100%. You hit on so many different topics that we could explore if we had more time. But definitely, think that this will be something that we'll come back to in a later podcast. But what I just want to follow up on is you hit something 100 % where you talked about career coaching, workforce. It's changing the landscape of workforce. And so already, I've been involved in conversation in some of the work that I do around workforce that talks about the need to know what AI is, how to use AI, and how to critically think about AI. It's not going anywhere. It's here. It's here to stay. So how do we begin thinking about the changes that need to happen within our work? How we train people, how we educate people, how people learn and what the influence of AI is. And what I kind of liken it to is if we go back, I don't know, 15, 20, maybe 30 years and we think about sort of the onset of even the internet, you know, I can remember a time, want to give away my age, but ⁓ think about a time where the internet didn't exist. And so there was a point in time where the internet started to come about and there was that level of distrust that people had about putting something online and searching for it on Yahoo, AOL, now Google, and thinking about where is this information going, how is it searching this information. And there was this level of distrust, but training that we had to do in terms of bringing people up to speed to feel comfortable with it, trust it, but also know what information to share or not share. So I think that we see in this new age of a transition happening where now AI is becoming sort of that new focal point of gaining information, getting information, and figuring out how to educate people to it, trust it, but critically think about it. But I think also part of where my hesitation is at is also the thing about the gaps, the gaps that happen within communities that are still not access to technology, period. So we have to begin thinking about that. if we are still having issues with people not having access to Wi-Fi, internet, computers, all right, so if that group is already left behind, this even widens the gap even more. So what do we do to begin critically thinking about that to bring people up to date and up to speed? So I think that those are definitely conversations that I would love to kind of continue to have at some point. Dr. Kyle Znamenak: Yeah, that's an excellent point. Excellent point about inclusion and when it comes to access. Dr. Anthony Adkisson: Mm-hmm. Yeah. So when you think about your field and your profession, where you're at now, you said you're still kind of emerging as a scholar. What advice would you have for those listeners or people who are listening who consider themselves wanting to get into the field? Is there any advice you would give to them? Dr. Kyle Znamenak: So I would say definitely joining professional communities. So develop, like looking at whatever type of field that you're going into. So for example, if you're going into adult learning, AAACE, ⁓ at AERC, looking at some of those professional, those are conferences, but also professional organizations and they have different of organizations within those. So you're learning about the practices. I would say, looking at some of the research if you have access to it within your field. Sometimes it's like people get, I don't know, it's academic research. Yeah, but it's good. mean, so some of the articles are open source that you're able to access. Some of them are available through Google Scholar. You can go to your public library to look at some of the resources as well. If you don't have access to the university resources, so definitely looking at those. as well as best practices that are out there through those professional organizations. I would definitely say looking and developing your own community of practice. That's like icing on the cake if you're able to do that. It's awesome. Those are kind of the big ones. I also would say like attending conferences if possible, even as a practitioner. A lot ⁓ of... these organizations that are specifically with an adult learning leadership and organization development are open to practitioners. They're not just scholarly conferences. Some of them are tend to be a little scholarly leaning, but they still want the practitioner voice involved in the conversation. So I definitely encourage you to do that. And to go to the point back to like the community practices, find your community, find people that support you through this process, find people that challenge you. have time to engage in dialogue, right? Critical dialogue with someone, through that community in order to challenge your thinking and explore new opportunities. Cause I think there's so much that I've learned either just through this podcast doing it, as well as just conversations with like at conferences or just with colleagues, that I, that have changed the way that I think about things. so, engage in that. Dr. Anthony Adkisson: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Dr. Kyle Znamenak: We're in a society at this point in time where we're trying not to engage in that as much and we like to hear, you know, social media, we're going to be like, okay, this is the stuff that I want to hear that supports what I want. ⁓ into some challenging conversations, lean into being uncomfortable because it's for your own learning. So that's a little bit of advice. Dr. Anthony Adkisson: Yeah. Yeah. I would add to that, you know, lean into, and this is what I had to do, lean into your professors. Lean into the professors that you are working with that are part of, you know, your program. And don't underestimate, one, their level of social networks, connections, and knowledge, and that they're not just there to teach you. but they also have experiences of their own. So it's having those conversations with them. And if there's something that sparks you within their research or those things that they're doing academically or scholarly, is expand upon that, look into that. And I would think from my own experience, and I think you would agree with this, we've had some very great professors within our program that have really helped us shift our thinking and channel just in ways to kind of think about adult learning differently, lifelong learning differently. but have not just been our professors, but have become colleagues of ours that we still have connections with today. And so I think that that's very important as if you're a new to the field and kind of emerging is to really think about the professors that you're working with and having those conversations with them and as colleagues and seeing them as colleagues, not just sort of your professors. Dr. Kyle Znamenak: I like that point about seeing them as colleagues. Now, just kind of flipping it where I'm the professor now. What I have learned is, ⁓ don't, I didn't learn this. I know that I don't know everything. And when I a student, I was concerned about oversharing because I didn't have the knowledge base. But, What the truth is is that I learned so much from my students. And I don't even want to my students, my colleagues, the people that I'm with, right? Because they bring their own knowledge, but they also have their deep dive within their subject matter expertise, right? So like, I mean, you came in talking to ⁓ Kate Monahan and jumping into that, a deeper dive within what reentry is. ⁓ I'm not sure if she even knew. that much about that population. And so you brought that expertise and I'm sure she was learning while she was doing that type of research with you. Dr. Anthony Adkisson: Yeah, bring up such a great point because again, I'm going back to the last class that I taught that, you know, and think that's what I love about adult learning is that everyone comes from a different discipline and they bring their different experience into the learning environment. ⁓ with the last class that I taught, you know, you had people from health care, you had people from student services, you had people from, you know, who work with, you know, social service organizations. So there's just a number of different organizations where adult learning principles are embedded within the work. ⁓ an adult educator and professor, I love seeing those aha moments where you have someone who's in HR and they're like, ⁓ well, duh, this relates to exactly what I'm doing. ⁓ they begin to see sort of how to unpack those learning theories within their everyday practice. So I just love all the differences in terms of career paths and things that get opened up. And to your point, yes, I'm learning about, you know, the last class I had someone who did medical tattooing. And never heard of it. Never heard of medical tattooing at all. But it was for people who have, you know, body scars, and I'm not gonna do this justice, but someone who had body scars and being able to deal with the trauma of those body scars and then to sort of own it in using tattoos to sort of make it look more appealing or aesthetically pleasing to the eye. Yeah, the fact that there was adult learning principles within there, so. just sharing on that, that that's just something that you have to be open to the conversation and willing to explore that and have those critical kind of conversations and explore what you don't know and it leads you down those paths. Dr. Kyle Znamenak: And it also stresses the importance of how adult learning and adult education, like the field matters. This discipline has so much application across any type of discipline. Dr. Anthony Adkisson: Love it, love it, love it. So I think that that's perfect for us to kind of this final question that I have for you. we embark upon watching this podcast, ⁓ are your hopes for this platform, which you've kind of shared a little bit already. ⁓ Dr. Kyle Znamenak: Yeah, yeah, definitely. So that last point for sure. it's to elevate, like one big thing is to elevate the of scholars that are actively doing research right now. trying to get their voices out there, get that research out there, because the field of adult learning is often, like a lot of people don't know about it, unfortunately. And so being able to elevate those voices. Dr. Anthony Adkisson: Mm-hmm. Dr. Kyle Znamenak: The second is to preserve the voices of historical scholars. And so being able to look at what is the foundation of adult learning and how have those theories developed? Like where did they come from? How they developed and where are they now? So I think that's that historical preservation is huge. ⁓ The bridging the ⁓ scholar practitioner divide is another huge one. And you talked about that. It's really about like We don't want our research just to sit on an ivory shelf where people can't access it. So this is a way that we can engage in meaningful dialogue between scholars and practitioners and bridge that gap. And then the other thing is just to make things interesting. mean, so like there's a difference between, and trust me, I love a good textbook. I love a big heavy textbook, right? so it's great. Like you love it. page through it, you know it, you know your resources, you're like, I have this knowledge base, it's great. But for some adult learners, that doesn't necessarily work. And so being able to create a podcast as well as like a video now, in which we're able to make the content more interesting and applicable to those. ⁓ So this is like, everything's andragogy. We're just like kind of rooting this all in there, undergirding it. So that's kind of my expectations. Any expectations that I mean, I Dr. Anthony Adkisson: No. Dr. Kyle Znamenak: I think I hit the plethora of the reasons of why we're doing this, but any others that you want to add there? Dr. Anthony Adkisson: Yeah, I think you hit the plethora definitely of a lot of the same things that I'm looking forward to. I think I would add to that that I see this as also is re-examining the opportunity ⁓ adult learning has set at the intersection of human rights, rights, social rights, and really that intersection of making sure that people's rights are respected and that there is a whole host of history that is there that often ⁓ doesn't get talked about enough. And so I want us to be able to open up that space to be able to talk about the ways in which adult learning has lived at those intersections and what it means at that level. And I think that part of that lends into some of the conversations that we'll be having in our next podcast. So as part of our next podcast, we will be having a conversation with Dr. Gretchen Birch. Gretchen is a professor emerita of the University of Alaska Anchorage. She's a profound scholar who has done several interviews over the years with some of the great foundational theorists of adult learning. These archives have been shared and listened to and are with some of the great theorists that a lot of students read about in their books. And so I think part of our next podcast is to really talk with Gretchen, hear from her in terms of these interviews and share some of her interviews. And so I really appreciate that she's going to join us next week and share sort of what her vision was for these interviews and some of the great theorists that she's talked to in how we can learn from them today and abridge that period of who the theorists were yesterday, what that looks like in a contemporary setting, and what it means for us going forward in the field of adult life. Dr. Kyle Znamenak: And to the point with access, one thing that she is going to be doing, so at this point in time these videos have been archived as DVDs and she also has raw footage when it comes to it. So some of us may have been exposed to these interviews through like getting a DVD. She is going to be working towards preserving and getting these videos out either through some type of like YouTube channel or podcast, but she's also allowing ⁓ to pull ⁓ these historical interviews for this podcast in order to get the word out there, spread ⁓ historical interviews so people have access to them. So I'm excited. I'm very excited. Dr. Anthony Adkisson: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, very excited. And to your point, yes, I'll underline again, access. I think it's just access to these voices and to these conversations that people may have not heard before, but really being able to think about how do we bring that into sort of a contemporary setting and think about how do we expand on those conversations, but then blend that into who are some of the contemporary researchers and people who are doing work now. has much changed? Has a little changed? Has a lot changed? So yeah. Really looking forward to getting into that conversation with Gretchen. Dr. Kyle Znamenak: to kind of close us out, So if anyone has, like if you want to be interviewed, if you're a scholar or practitioner, if you want to be a guest on the OD Learning Lab, free to email us. It's odlearninglab at gmail.com. Again, that's odlearninglab at gmail.com. And we'd welcome, and you could even bring in your own questions too. There's something that you want us to address that. feel like we haven't addressed or something came up during this interview that you want us to address in a future podcast, just let us know. Dr. Anthony Adkisson: Yeah, looking forward to it. Well, Kyle, thank you. I appreciate the conversation today and looking forward to, you know, moving this podcast forward. And yeah, thank you for the conversation today. Dr. Kyle Znamenak: So you just see where goes.