Latest / PNW Haunts & Homicides / Oregon's Deadliest Shooting – Umpqua Community College

Transcript

Oregon's Deadliest Shooting – Umpqua Community College · PNW Haunts & Homicides

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: October first of twenty fifteen, at the Umpquah Community College
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: campus near Roseberg in Oregon, Christopher open fire inside Room
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: fifteen of Snyder Hall. This tragic incident marked the forty
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: fifth time that year. Those living in the US and
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: others watching from the world at large were left to
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: mourn yet another school shooting on US soil. Hi, Kennessey, Hi, Caitlin, Hi.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: Creepy people, helloo, and the waving continues.
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: We're back in our normal zone, recording zone.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: Everything here is normal.
• 0:53
  Speaker 3: We still have trees behind us, but they're not real.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: I was like, what, we got a lot of common
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: it's on our background for the last couple episodes.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: Oh that's true. Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.
• 1:04
  Speaker 3: You guys liked it. It's very p and W.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we do what we can.
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: It's fitting because this is.
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: P and W hans and homicides, where we shut about
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: drue crime, the paranormal, and most importantly the Pacific Northwest,
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: arguably I think pretty important is kind of key to
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: the whole thing.
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: It's kind of important.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: Uh huh uh huh.
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: And it's the PNW.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: If you're nasty and as I was like, oh god,
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: we're saying it.
• 1:34
  Speaker 4: I did it.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: Okay, I can do it too. We can rely on
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: each other, Okay, all right, just kind of take that
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: roal shell pells. And also sometimes do you know what
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: else starts with tea? Oh?
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: Clever cigo taro, which we do in every episode for
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: a little deeper insight into our topic.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: That's try.
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: We do tongues and tar in every episode.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: I mean normally, I don't think every episode requires Tom's,
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: but when in Rome, I don't know.
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: I feel like, especially yours sometimes would require toms because
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: I get very upset.
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I hear like, hmm, indigestion. Maybe it's fitting. I
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: don't know.
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's true crime today. You saw it on the slapper.
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: On the slip Actually we probably cut that part out,
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: but yeah, well, you know, we don't know what Tailor does.
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: Talan's version.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: Who could say? You know what else starts at the tea? Taylan? Oh,
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: I love that Tailan's version. Yeah, oh it's so close too,
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: I know. Oh my god, which speaking of Tailan, we
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: should say just real quickly.
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: I don't know if you guys saw the hand, did
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: you guys see the fucking avatar ghost that we have
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: it was episode. Duh, I know it was on news episode.
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: I don't know the number off the top of my head. Yeah, okay, yeah,
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: two o one. There was some freakin' activity and we
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: caught it.
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: Taylor caught it. She saw it, and we're gonna talk
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: for about it.
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: We'll have probably an episode where we have her on
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: we need to and we're going to talk.
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: All about it.
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, because it was really exciting when we found
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: out we caught something.
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I don't care what anyone says, well that's
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: not true. I'm very interested. But unless you have a
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: better explanation than was that, Charlie couldn't have been.
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: It must have been upstairs. I do you have been.
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: I mean, we're just talking about this thing that happened
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: in this office.
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: Seriously, and we have had the infestation to end all infestations.
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: You guys, It's like something out of a horror movie.
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: Oh no, I feel like at this point in the
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: movie you'd be telling these people like, oh girl, you
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: in danger, but like nothing that was like such a
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: big red flag that you'd immediately move. Not yet, so
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: stay tuned for that.
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: Wait, you have to wait until the locusts get in
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: that's bro.
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: We have had and I kid you not, Okay, it's
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: that time of year and we've started putting out stuff
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: because ants are gonna they're coming in, okay, And they
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: have been on a very small scale, and it's been
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: manageable and we've gotten rid of them, and hopefully we
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: have used almost everything on God's green Earth I could
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: think of to just get stay away ee wee. But
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: we have had, I kid you not. One day Chris
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: found or more accurately, I found and instructed cue like
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: over a dozen spiders and there had been at least
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: three a day after that, for like a full week,
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: and it made me kill one today today, Yes, and
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: there was a bee in here. Ah, there was a
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: bee in here earlier today, and I was like, okay,
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: did it get your bonnet? No?
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: Isn't a thing in your bonnet?
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 5:23
  Speaker 4: No.
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: So my impressive record of still, you know, having lived
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: twenty nine glorious years on earth without being stunned stung
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: remains like, what do you mean you are stunning? It's done,
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: it's done, it's done. Yeah, rough times here Remember that
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: wasp ness that like appeared in front of your house? Dude?
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: I just I really want just things that like shouldn't
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: be in or around my house to just you know,
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: just go be where you should be. Go be okay
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: elsewhere any Who's all? I don't even know. I don't
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: even know where we left off.
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: But I don't either, because you guys probably didn't hear it,
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: but we were talking about the ghost hand thing and
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: how we're gonna have tailor on and then we heard
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: like a bang.
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: Yes somewhere. Oh my god, thank god you at least
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: remember that.
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't remember what you were saying, but.
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: Oh, I started to say. I hope that it's not
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: It's not that I don't care or that I will
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: accept no other explanation, but somebody needs to produce a
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: better explanation than just like the term camera artifacts, right, yeah,
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: especially if they cannot adequately explain to me, like a
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: four year old, what a camera artifact is. I mean,
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: I know what they are, and that I don't I
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: don't know, I don't know.
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: Well, well, we'll go into it though, we'll talk about
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: it in depth in an episode because it's crazy. But
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: if you want to give us your opinion on what
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: it is like, please feel free.
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: Would love to hear it, but it better be good.
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you can watch the video or we made it
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: reel about it. You see it there, Yeah in stigreem.
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Okay, well that seems like we've kind of stole
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: that out as long as we can. So should we
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: do this? Let's do it. I am prepared. It's so
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: cute you think that. Christopher Sean Harper Mercer was born
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: July twenty sixth, nineteen eighty nine, in Torrance, California, to
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: parents Ian, an Englishman, and Laurel, an African American woman. Notably,
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: quite a bit of reporting would state or speculate that
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: he had actually been born abroad across the pond in
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: the UK. I haven't found anything that actually substantiates that,
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: so I think that that's just kind of what happened
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: in the media circus after the fact of the thing
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: we're going to talk about. At any rate, the couple
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: would separate prior to his birth, and though they had
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: custody arrangements in place, they were not enacted through much
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: of his early life. It seems so Dad had visitation
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: and or partial custody, but it doesn't seem like that
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: really happened. It's unclear exactly why that is, Okay, fast forward.
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: By twenty thirteen, he'd lived nearly his whole life with
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: his mother, Laurel, and when they moved to Oregon, he
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: would see even less of his father in the years
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: immediately following their move, which was only a couple of years.
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: Based on these facts alone, his early life might have
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: seemed slightly sad, perhaps even a little fraut. You know,
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: children of parents that have separated or you know, of
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: divorce sometimes have a tough time. But he wasn't even
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: born when they separated, So this is the only thing
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: he's ever known, right, Yeah, not to take away from that,
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: but still must be tough though.
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: It's like, yes, you have a single mother trying to
• 9:19
  Speaker 3: raise you.
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: It's got to be hard, yeah, But it was an
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: entirely devoid of the tender moments that you know, one
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: kind of hopes every child experiences growing up. His mother
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: would write online that Christopher, as well as herself, had
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: been diagnosed with Asperger syndrome. She claimed he wasn't a
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: and this is a quote babbling idiot, and stated that
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: she'd read aloud to him as a newborn from Donald
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: Trump's The Art of the Deal.
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: Personally would have probably stuck with something more like Baby
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: Einstein type material, but I'm not going to come for
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: her parenting at this wish she was reading to him like,
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's something I kind of thought, like, hey,
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: you know, I mean there are times when he has,
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: you know, proven to be more or less problematic throughout
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: his existence, and I feel like back then, a lot
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: of people just thought, oh, you know, he's kind of
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: a kooky guy. Oh billionaires, am I right?
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: If they only knew?
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, oh boy, many would describe Christopher as quiet, even
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: as a bit of a loaner. There's not exactly a
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: shortage of people willing to comment on the details of
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: his youth. But that's kind of the overwhelming theme, is
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: like quiet kid kind of seemed like a loner, right, And.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: All these people commenting since he was a loaner, clearly
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: weren't really like his friends or.
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: Right, probably not the closest people to him, but you know,
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: people who saw him potentially fairly frequently, a lot of
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: neighbors and like people that he went to school with.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: So you know, I said, there were a lot of
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: people willing to comment on the details of his youth,
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: but I mean that was aside from the United States Military.
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: They didn't really want to comment. Oh okay, Christopher had
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: enlisted in the Army and entered basic training at Fort
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: Jackson in South Carolina in two thousand and eight, only
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: to be discharged just a month later. Yikes. Yeah, yeah,
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: And I was like, listen, I certainly never been involved
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: even on frankly a cursory level with the military in
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: any way. But to me, that was like, oof, Okay,
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: that seems like kind of a red flag.
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: It sounds like you just like maybe didn't pass your
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: physical or something like.
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: You could could be that certainly. Yeah. Yeah. The circumstances were,
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: and even now remained to a lesser degree, kind of
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: shrouded in mystery. There's not a lot that like conclusively says,
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: but we'll get to that, Okay. Through the course of
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: a larger investigation, it would come to light it was
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: suspected that a suicide attempt was the cause of his discharge. No. Yeah,
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: the Army would decline to discuss the details.
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: Well, okay, that's fair.
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: If it was like a that's like something medical, you know,
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: you can't really discuss that.
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think that's fair. Enough, right, But
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: still his fascination with guns would remain a constant. He
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: and his mother owned numerous guns, and target practice was
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: a popular bonding activity in their household. Did they use
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: Trump's book to target practice? I don't think so. That's
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: not the impression that I got. What might be a
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: little less clear is when exactly Christopher began engaging in
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: social media and various forums like four chan that proudly
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: touch a lot of racist and in sell ideologies nice
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: as well as those that glorify mass shooters. This, no
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: doubt seems like an all too predictable, deadly recipe at
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: this point.
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: Social media is no good man.
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: I mean social media in and of itself, but like
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: when you go to the darkest corners of the Internet.
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: So true, we'll talk a little teensy bit more about
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: But later statements made by his mother would indicate, though
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: she did not state it outright, that again this goes
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: back to his military service. Can we I mean training?
• 13:43
  Speaker 4: Yeah?
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, military, mom, I.
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: Don't know if you really served anything.
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean you're in basic, so I think at
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: that point it's obviously still just training if you even
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: made it that far. Well, he was in basic Yeah,
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: that a potentially staged suicide attempt by Christopher had led
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: to his swift discharge, And I feel like the fact
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: that their speculation around it being staged is kind of
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: an interesting component. Not a lot of information about that.
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: It's unclear whether he truly intended to take his own
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: life in the vague incident described during an interview with
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: law enforcement. His mother would also recall receiving a phone
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: call from a hospital around the time of his discharge
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: from the military, not from the hospital. Though The Wall
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: Street Journal did reach out to the Army, they declined
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: to comment or discuss any details. Obviously we already mentioned
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: this is their citing constraints due to privacy regulations. I mean,
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: that's kind of a It would be a shame if
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: the US government did something that compromised our service members
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: private information, wouldn't it.
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: Oh, they would never do that.
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: Any who's a we are going to take It's a
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: real sharp left. It's a real sharp left.
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: I look to my right.
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's not a great way to transition, So here
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: it is, Okay. October first of twenty fifteen, at the
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: Umpquah Community College campus near Roseberg in Oregon, Christopher open
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: fire inside Room fifteen of Snyder Hall. This tragic incident
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: marked the forty fifth time that year. Those living in
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: the US and others watching from the world at large
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: were left to mourn yet another school shooting on US soil.
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: It was also the nine hundred and ninety fourth mass
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: gun attack in the US in that three year period
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: following Obama's reelection. Holy shit. At the time, it appears
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: that the perpetrator was enrolled in the introductory position class,
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: where he shot a number of victims. Survivors would later
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: state that a number of the victims were questioned about
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: their religious beliefs prior to being shot.
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: Ooh like oh, like the Columbine.
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: Yes, and it's definitely something that's come up in relation
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: to his case. Obviously, he's somebody that I've already mentioned,
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: has you know, been involved in discussions online that glorify
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: mass shooters, Yeah, specifically the perpetrators of Columbine and several
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: other really horrific shootings.
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: God.
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: Also, this is something in particular that seems kind of
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: unusual for a shooter that billed himself as not being
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: aligned with organized religion, like even a little bit like
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: he was. Actually there was a lot of speculation that
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: his crimes may have been sort of an anti religious
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: I don't know how else to put it, but like
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: almost like an anti religious hate crime. Okay, bizarre in
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: this case, though, their responses hardly seemed to matter to
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: the shooter in the end, as so many in the
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: room that fateful day were ultimately systematically gunned down, it
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: really didn't seem to matter what the answer was. In
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: the aftermath, a statement provided by law enforcement indicated that
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: as the shooting progressed, there was less engagement between the
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: shooter and his victims, and he shot randomly and appeared
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: to be trying to kill as many people as possible.
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: Throughout the ordeal, horrified students and staff reacted in nearly
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: every imaginable possible way, some seemingly stunned into silence as
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: they hoped to honestly just avoid the shooter's erratic gaze,
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: and he was frequently described by survivors as being very erratic.
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: It's an un understandable reaction in the face of this
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: type of I mean, really almost unfathomable violence. It's just horrifying.
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: It's just not something that most people have experienced firsthand. No,
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's certainly becoming more commonplace, unfortunately.
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: But that's like, I don't want to hear the word
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: erratic in like with someone holding a gun, you know.
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: Actually holding multiple guns. Oh fuck dude. Yeah. Others were
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: spurned into various forms of action. At least one survivor
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: described pretending to be dead as the shooter swept in
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: their direction. Another would tell investigators they desperately smeared a
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: neighboring victim's blood on themselves in order to avoid detection
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: as a potential survivor amongst the group. Which is I
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: mean this person to have I mean, to be able
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: to react in that way in this circumstance is I mean,
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: it's horrific. And I'm sure you know, to them, it's
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: like this is absolutely survival mode. The trauma that I'm
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: sure all of these people really now experience in hindsight.
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: But to look back on that, and I mean that
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: just the guilt that people surely have to feel. It's
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: such a common thing to have survivor's guilt, and I
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: can't even really put in towards I mean, it's not
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: something that I've experienced, so I just it's heartbreaking.
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: You use a deceased person blood so that you can
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: live like that is so sad.
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that one really blew me away. Tracy Hugh recalled
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: shooter entering the classroom and hurting everyone into the center
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: of the room. She was huddled with the others on
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: the ground as Serena Moore attempted to climb out of
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: her wheelchair, though she was instructed to get back into it.
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: The gunman shot her as she attempted to do so.
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: Though Serena sadly died that day, she was not alone
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: beyond her horrified fellow classmates that looked on her service
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: dog remained quietly at her side. Her dog, named Bullet,
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: survived the shooting. What the fuck.
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: A good puppy.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: I know, Whome's a good boy, and we are going
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: to get to some things that are going to seem
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: like insane. But I promised you at the beginning, before
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: you even got here today, I was like, this is
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: so horrific. But it's like two sides of a coin
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: and they are it's like so dark, and there's still
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: so much silver lining like an equal measure. They're fucking
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: better be.
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: I don't know why, Like I guess I don't need
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: to like analyze why fucking murderers doing what they're doing,
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: but just like to have someone struggling in a wheelchair
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: to get back in to do what you told them
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: to do and then to do that, oh my god,
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: Like yeah.
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: Like why am I even wondering why.
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: He's doing what he's doing because it's all just fucking awful.
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: No, it is, it is, it is, And I feel
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: like the thing is is that you know, when you
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: know survivors and then law enforcement they're echoing that you know,
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: he was so erratic, that just really drives it home.
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: It really does, like you can get like a better
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: sense of what was happening.
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: I mean, and it's really a mind fuck because, like
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: you said, it's like she was doing what you said
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: to do and then but I mean he, I mean,
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: it was clear that he was there to kill as
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: many people as possible. And it's never going to really
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: make sense. Like you can understand aspects, but I mean
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: you're never gonna wrap your head completely around it, and
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: I don't want to. Of course, by now, everyone on
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: campus in Snyder Hall, as well as some neighboring areas,
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: they were all aware that there was an active shooter
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: in their midst That makes up a small ish section
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: of the overall campus, though, and an active shooter can
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: move quickly. Yeah all over Most present at the time
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: fled to safety or attempted to shelter in place, however
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: they could. Tracy Hugh, despite her desperation to survive the
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: ordeal she was a MoMA three, accepted the risk, as
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: she whispered to another survivor, he's only one person. We
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: just got to do something about it, or we're all
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: just going to die. Little did she know another brave soul,
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: already adopting much the same mindset, was hard at work
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: trying to ensure the survival of as many people as possible,
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: and also at great personal risk to himself. As he
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: moved against others fleeing, he seemed at once aware and
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: yet preternaturally determined to continue directly toward the shooter, terrified
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: and pained screams and the gunfire. Originally from Randleman, North Carolina,
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: Chris Mintz had just started college courses recently and was
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: himself a student at UCC as well as a ten
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: year Army vet. Oh wow, okay, so he's got some skill, right,
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: I mean, skill is the tip of the iceberg. I'm
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: he had been in an adjacent classroom of Snyder Hall
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: when suddenly there was yelling when they heard gunfire. He
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: held the door for his fellow classmates to flee to safety.
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: As he and numerous others fled along the open air
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: breezeway toward the library, he and another student collided. He
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: was knocked to the ground in the panic struggle to
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: safety that surrounded him. So the person that's literally holding
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: the door open for everybody gets like knocked over, And
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: I'm sure that person felt terrible. But you know, shit,
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: I knock into inanimate objects and people constantly.
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: And you're not well.
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: You could be in a state of panic constantly. But
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: it's fair to assume that's not unusual either.
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: But it's a different it's a different h it's sort
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: of a more of a generalized anxiety. It was then
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: that a nearby counselor indicated that the gunman's whereabouts weren't
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: precisely known and those in the library were likely unaware.
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: Christ didn't hesitate. He quickly volunteered to warn them and
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: do whatever he could to see them to safety. He
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: ran to the library, quickly alerting everyone to get to
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: the other side of campus as quickly as possible, making
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: his way through the book aisles, pulling alarms and pushing
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: through to the emergency exits. At this point, he'd already
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: proven himself a pretty heroic figure to many that day,
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: but he continued back towards Snyder Hall. Wow, remember to breathe.
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: At some point, amidst the chaos unfolding, a FedEx driver
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: captured an image of the shooter. The point of view
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: is only slightly obscured as he peers out of the
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: classroom to see law enforcement approaching the building, and it is,
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: of course, knowing the context, it's one of the most
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: chilling images I think I've ever seen.
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: Wow, how did he get that?
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: I mean, he must have been in the parking lot
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: when all of this started happening. Holy shit, that's scary too, Like,
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: yeahn did he see me take this picture? Is he
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: about to come out and shoot me? Well, and you
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: could be somebody who's on campus making a delivery and
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: this could still I mean, the pervasiveness of mass shootings
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: makes it so that you could literally be anyone anywhere,
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: which is great. Yeah, I mean that's the most horrifying
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: part of it is if you're afraid to, you know,
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: get on an airplane. You know, you can take less
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: flights if that, if you so choose. This feels almost
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: unavoidable in a way, which I can't say how much
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: I hate that. Yeah. I don't know if you know
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: this about me, but I don't like mass shootings, you
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: know what, same sise girl. Yeah, it's crazy. I know
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: it's like kind of a hot take. I feel like
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: these days actually, but I'm not a fan, especially ones
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: at schools. I think there's just something about it the
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: way we were raised.
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, because we were raised having to do the drills
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: and all that, and so it's just like really deeply
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: in like an ingrained fear for us, I think being
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: so young and having to know about that well.
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: And I mean when we were in high school, we
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: did have a bomb threat that you know, was called
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: in for our school and that was really scary. I
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: mean even just the idea that there's been a threat
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: is it's in a way, I mean it's on a
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: totally different scale, of course, but I mean that's very
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: traumatizing as a young person.
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because you have no idea what's happening, Like you're
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: just told to get down and be quiet, right right, basically,
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: and yeah.
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: The first hand accounts of multiple survivors, including Chrismins and
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: Tracy Hugh, provide additional details and insight to the remainder
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: of the ordeal. Each of them would recall from their
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: own perspective how when Christmins identified the room the shooter
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: was in, he would open the classroom door and attempt
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: to intervene to their dismay. He was shot as he screamed,
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: and I promise you I am not making this up.
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: I have a six year old son. His birthday is today.
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: That is the saddest thing you've ever said to me.
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: At some point, amidst all of the disjointed violence and chaos,
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: the shooter addressed student Matthew Downing, saying today is your
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: lucky day. You are not going to die today. You
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: need to give this envelope to the cops when they
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: get here. It has my manifesto inside of it. Jesus
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: Christ's gonna be fucking cares, before handing him a flash
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: drive with the described contents.
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's good that this person is supposedly hopefully
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: getting out safe. That's not what I meant by that.
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: No, exactly. Yeah, I mean, it's just nobody cares about
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: your fucking manifesto. We never have and we never will.
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: I did locate a copy of it, and you'll note
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: that I have not opted to include any passages.
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: It's not waste our fucking time.
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we're going to talk broad strokes, general themes, and
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: that's all all I can really bear, to be honest,
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: Downing's actions afterwards are just some a bit confusing, and
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: I'll be the last person to say that it's not
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: a valid response to be like, why, but why why
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: they do debt? However, I think we all understand that
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: trauma often causes sufferers to behave in what could be
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: perceived as strange or completely illogical, maybe even irrational ways.
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: I don't think that's a new concept. When he fled
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: the classroom, doubting let what he'd been given by the
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: shooter loose, he like kind of dropped it. Not long after,
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: another student reportedly found the discarded Manila envelope lying next
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: to his parked car. That student picked it up, later
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: handing it over when asked about it by a detective.
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: I think it's hard to say what you might do
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: in the moment moment until you're inhabiting that moment, right,
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: you don't know what's in there? No, I mean, you
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: know what he's telling you, it is, drop.
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: It and run away as far away from that thing
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: as possible.
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: I feel like that actually is a more appropriate response
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: than a lot of people gave it credit for. There
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: could be ambacs in there, I mean that was kind
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: of in that era. I mean, who fucking knows, we're
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: so fucked up? Well yeah, yeah.
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: Oh my god.
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: Maybe it's my stance alone, but I think there's a
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: pretty good chance that after being released by someone you
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: thought was almost certainly going to kill you mirror seconds
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: before that, you might drop anything he'd given you when
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: you were fleeing, just as if it was radioactive, right,
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: especially because he's like erratic and yeah, so you're like,
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: I'm the fuck attic here, just get out.
• 31:54
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: It was shortly after the shooter fired on the man
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: who had fought so hard to protect everyone around him
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: that Tracy said she heard what she believed was law
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: enforcement engaging the shooter with gunfire.
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: Oh.
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: The corner would later determine his death to be a suicide,
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: just as many of the mass shooters that inspired the
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: young man.
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well does that say I just don't. I just don't.
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: I did, I don't, you know, And I'm okay living
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: in that ignorance to a degree, like.
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: Just kill your fucking self that that's what you're going
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: to do anyway in the end.
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Tracy Hugh recalled hearing a fellow survivor state
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: he's down, and her recollection was that this was Matthew Downing,
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: who had been designated the survivor that said this. He said,
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: everybody get up. So I think this this guy kid,
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: I don't know how old he is, but I mean
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: he's fully in fight or flight, quite literally, I think.
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: But I don't think he needs any defense for anything
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: that he's done. He's done nothing wrong. I just I
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: just saw, you know, the way that certain articles were
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: worded and things that it was like there was almost
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: an assignment of like some sort of blame, and I
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: was like, I am just not here for that.
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: No.
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: At about that same time, Chris Mintz recalled a friend
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: coming out of the classroom to kneel beside him. It
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: was clear that, as anyone would be, she was incredibly
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: traumatized as she cried and tried to pray with him.
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: In that moment, all he could say was, it's my
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: son's birthday. Please call my son's mom and tell her
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: I can't pick him up from school today. I swear
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: to God, if you make me fucking cry, I know.
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: It truly seemed that no one could recall a single
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: instance where this man had paused for even a moment
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: of self pity or concern for his own wellbeing. He
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: was immediately and without exception. I didn't come across any
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: but if there are out there, no, without exception, Harold
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: did a hero on that horrific day. Yes he was
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: an army veteran, but he was acting as a civilian
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: and he was unarmed. In stark con trust. The rambling racist,
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: which is ironic coming from yeah racist manifesto left by
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: the shooter detailed his complaints as a virgin with no friends,
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: also penned by the gunman, his Satanic views, along with
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: the proclamation that success in hell is assured. Hm, what
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: exactly that means? I couldn't tell you what is success
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: in hell assuming that you believe it exists?
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: Right, because a real Satanist doesn't really believe that, So
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: what are you actually, so.
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: Are you maybe just a little man boy baby who's
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: confused nobody wants him?
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: Like I want to feel bad obviously.
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: No, No, I don't. I know, I know, but like.
• 35:58
  Speaker 3: You want to feel let me, let me finish.
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: I want to feel bad, like for someone who doesn't
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: have like friends and things.
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: You need people in.
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: Your life to you know, you're human, that's what you need.
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: But kind of maybe look at yourself and be like, well,
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: why don't I have it? Like why doesn't anyone want
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: to hang out with me? Maybe because I'm fucking racist,
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: an asshole.
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: The lack of introspection in any capacity that could be
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: construed as healthy is astounding.
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like it's everyone else's fault. That's why you
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: want to go and murder everyone. It's everyone else's fault
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: that you're a shithead.
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: Listen, I'm not the problem, literally, everyone else's.
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: Douglas County Sheriff's Office investigators wrote more than one hundred
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: reports following the shooting out the college. Records pertaining to
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: the investigation indicate over one hundred and fifty people were
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: interviewed and more than three hundred pieces of evidence were
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: collected by the thirteen law enforcement agencies involved. Wow. They
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: determined that the shooter fired more than forty rounds in
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: the course of the attack, and he had been wearing
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: metal plated body armor geez, which to me says, I
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: don't want to be stopped until I'm ready to end this, yeah,
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: which is just.
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: Like looking for a shootout.
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: And then he kills himself, so they all do, and
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: I just, oh my god. Well, you have to think too,
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: even if you're not gonna kill yourself. If you are,
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: you're shooting by cops. Yeah, exactly, you have forced them
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: to do this. Either way, you're gonna get shot by somebody,
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: like I mean, unless you I have so rarely wished
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: for someone to die at the hands of the police.
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: But yeah, you know, if the shoe fits rock that shit, Cinderella.
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: I mean, I remember this, and I remember seeing pictures
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: of a lot of these people.
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: I don't remember it. I'm sure when it happened, I
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: saw things.
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: But I I will go ahead and I'm going to
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: air drop you some pictures. What you looking at currently.
• 38:35
  Speaker 3: I'm looking at a very blurry bush.
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: Ah, yes, that's the foot, That's what we're looking it, right, Oh,
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: cute cool bush.
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: Okay, let's move on.
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: Do you see the man in the doorway.
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: I see the man in the doorway. Yeah, it's his face,
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: so thankfully.
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, it's it's kind of a side profile.
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: Luckily that the placement of that is really impeccable. But
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: I assume that you can see is I guess that
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: would be considered the foreground. It looks like who I'm
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: assuming is someone in law enforcement running towards the building
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: as the man standing in the doorway is peering outward.
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: I was going to say, it looks like there's a
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: guy riding a bike on the edge, but I guess he.
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: Just looks like he's riding a bike, doesn't he Maybe
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: he's run holding probably holding something. Yes, I believe that
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: is based on context from other photos. I believe he
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: is holding a very large rifle.
• 39:37
  Speaker 4: Shit.
• 39:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, oh yeah, Okay, Wow.
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: This is the FedEx driver's photo. Very close. I mean,
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: it's possible zoomed in, but I mean, even if you're
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: zoomed in, you are.
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: Like if his face was showing, you could see like
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: details of his face. Yeah, you can see he's wearing glasses.
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: You can see his pants, his cargo, fucking pants. Or
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: whatever he's wearing.
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: Like they love a cargo pant, don't they.
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: Which is rude because they're very functional, Yeah, and stylish.
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: I found some better pictures of Christmins. Uh, not a ton,
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: I know, I saw more. I probably didn't think to
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: download all of them, which is probably not the end
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: of the world, because how many pictures of a Chris
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: that's not my husband can I possibly Christmas?
• 40:28
  Speaker 3: Oh?
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: Okay, hello, I know listen, I feel like I could
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: picture myself being saved by somebody less attractive. Okay, So
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: we left off at the body armor. They determined between
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: the firearms on his person, as well as those later
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: recovered from the home that he and his mother shared
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: just outside Roseberg in Winchester, that he owned or had
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: access to, over a dozen guns.
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: That's too many, feels like kind of a lot. That's
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: about a dozen too many.
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: Might it? I would say arguably for a household of two,
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: it's at least ten too many guns. I'm trying to
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: be reasonable here.
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: I have complicated feelings on guns. Okay, I go back
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: and forth. Leave me alone about it.
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: I think a lot of Americans do, and I feel, well,
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: that's not going away. That's that's not changing here we are.
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: They determined that he'd brought six of those guns onto
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: the campus, and two of them were used during the
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: killings in Snyder Hall. A nine millimeter glock pistol Model
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: nineteen and a forty caliber tourist pistol Model T twenty four.
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: All of that is nonsense to me. I have seen
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: a nine millimeter or a glock before, but beyond that.
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: It's it's forty Caliber's pretty big though, right.
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: That's my understanding. Yeah, yeah, I don't know a lot
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: about guns.
• 42:10
  Speaker 3: Sounds big.
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: I believe that's correct in either case. And this is
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: not technically in my notes, and I've already expressed that,
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: you know, he was at one point firing with both guns.
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: That is just uh, it's just a visual that will
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: not leave me anytime soon.
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: Erradically like, oh god, it's so scary. Yeah, it's like
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: a video game.
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: Well, I was just gonna say, do you know, I mean,
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: how many movies have you seen about like The Wild
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: West where they're firing with two pistols And I can't,
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: I simply can't. Oregon State Police detectives interviewed Laurel Harper,
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: but the content of their conversations would not be publicly
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: released until September twenty seventeen. Once released, it was revealed
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: that her son had been prescribed medication. Not entirely clear
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: on what medication that was, just based on my research.
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: It's possible that that is findable information. I don't know
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: how much that matters at this point, because it was
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: seemingly to no effect or at minimums certainly not the
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: desired effect. Clearly, she described him as being born angry.
• 43:41
  Speaker 3: Oh well, that's not fair.
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, some people are angrier than
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: others at the start. I don't think that. I don't
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: think anyone's born angry. I think when you deal with
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: a child, to me, this reads as almost someone who
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: has like maybe oppositional defiance disorder, where I mean they're
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: just very combative and I'm not trying to diagnose them.
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: I certainly don't have enough information or the clinical background
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: to do to do that doctor yet, you know, I mean, yeah,
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: I've I have friends that have been asking me for yours.
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: Are you a doctor yet? Like no, no, No, it's
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: just sad.
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: It kind of just makes me think of like a
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: baby who maybe has like gas or something like what.
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: Do they call call like baby?
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: Like? That doesn't mean they're born angry. They're just you know,
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: they're adjusting to the world. They're in pain, they're little babies.
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: They don't know what's happening.
• 44:42
  Speaker 3: And then you read them Donald Trump, and then what happens.
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: I mean, then they certainly become more dussy. No, I
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: mean I was a callaguy baby, and I think I've
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: probably shared previously stories that you know, my mom said
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: things like, as the first time Catholic mother, I did
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: briefly entertain the thought that you might be possessed God
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: as you would projectile vomit across the room. And I
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: was like, that sounds rough, I know.
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: But you know, you know, shoot a school. So your
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: mom did something right. Not not that it's the mom's fault.
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: I don't think it's.
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think there are things in your upbringing that
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: can contribute. I'm not ready to assign blame to a
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: parent specifically. Yeah, it's really neither here nor there, because
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: here we are and these things have happened. Law enforcement
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: also learned that prior to his last violent act, she
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: was aware that he enjoyed watching horrific videos of killings
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: on the Internet. I feel like that was not to
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: make excuses for either him or for her. I feel
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: like there was an era of the you kind of
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: mid ats where there were a lot of teenage and
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: early twenties boys that were like.
• 46:08
  Speaker 4: It's so cool, it's like grand theft, and I love
• 46:12
  Speaker 4: watching people getting beheaded on the Internet, and I don't
• 46:20
  Speaker 4: like any of them.
• 46:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, someone made me watch the Columbine like security camera
• 46:28
  Speaker 3: Yet that was fun.
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: Thanks for that, so that I don't want to watch it. Yeah,
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: scarred for life, it's fine pretty much.
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah. No, as someone who's seen even brief excerpts of it,
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: that's Those aren't things that you can erase from your memory.
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: They sure aren't. Nope. Additionally, though, it seems they were
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: able to document eventually that each of the guns they recovered,
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: whether from his person on the campus or from his home,
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: all of the weapons had been purchased legally. Because their
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: home was reportedly so disordered, his mother could not confidently
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: determine what guns he had taken from the home when
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: he carried out the deadly attack.
• 47:22
  Speaker 3: Just have guns everywhere? I feel like that's a.
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: I think potentially, if you cannot identify what guns are
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: missing that may or may not point to a problem.
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: I don't think I'm really going out on a limb there.
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: Someone should at least one person should be able to
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: you know, was she single, she was the only one
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: living there with her son.
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: It was okay, so yeah, listen that I wouldn't say
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: this is exactly a point in her favor, but to
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: be fair, investigators in fact even missed a weapon in
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: their initial sweep of the home, as it had reportedly
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: been stored inside a safe beneath the shooter's bed. I
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: feel like we're not checking underneath the bed.
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: Maybe it was like so dirty under there that you
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: couldn't see it was hidden by like dust bunnies.
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: I've looked at a lot a lot of photos that
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: were taken during the sweep of their home, and I
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: can at once acknowledge that it's possible that you could
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: miss something. I do think when you are trying to
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: recover evidence from the home of you know, mass shooter,
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: I do. I don't know, you kind of had one job,
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: like move the bed. Yeah, under the bed is like
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: where people hide things, you know, I mean historically, like
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: even money, which I feel like, you know, still all
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: told between their home, his vehicle, and the UCC campus.
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: They seized over a dozen guns, a large cash of
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: various ammunition, as well as accessories. It was much later
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: that additional alarming footage and records pertaining to his many
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: gun purchases would emerge, because ultimately he was the owner
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: of most of these guns, overwhelmingly most of these guns.
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: I mean, I would be concerned if the mom was
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: the owner and didn't know correct the guns.
• 49:38
  Speaker 3: Yes, you know what I mean.
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: It's not that they weren't already aware though, of his
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: massive stash of guns. They certainly understood that he owned
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: a lot of guns. But more so, it's it's that
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: it's chilling to witness him handling and purchasing various weapons
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: in the lead up to the shooting. Investigators had also
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: seized what was dubbed a last shopping day list. It
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: had been recovered from his vehicle on nineteen ninety seven
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: Honda CRV. It was also learned that their search of
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: the apartment yielded what was described as mental health paperwork,
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: but had been found inside a filing cabinet. Additionally revealed
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: was his purchase of a nine millimeter glock pistol Model
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: G nineteen out of fred Meyer in Roseberg on January fourteenth,
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: twenty fifteen, in addition to a Taurus pistol model twenty
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: four to seven purchased from the Mid Oregon Armory in
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: Roseberg on April second, twenty thirteen. Neither of the firearms
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: owned by his mother were used to carry out the
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: attack on campus, so they recovered over a dozen guns.
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: Reportedly she owned two of those guns WOW that were recovered. Overall.
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: A video surfaced that showed him apparently pawning one weapon
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: and purchasing another on September twenty ninth, twenty fifteen, just
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: days before the shooting. WOW investigators also released the receipt
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: showing his purchase of a thirty eight high point handgun,
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: and chillingly, though it was in his possession at the
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: time of the attack on campus, he did not fire
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: it in the classroom. So he literally went out and
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: bought a weapon two days before the shooting and he
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: didn't even use it.
• 51:57
  Speaker 3: I mean, thank god.
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: I mean, there was no shortage of weapons at his disposal, obviously.
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: It's just so I think it just goes back to
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: that erratic behavior pattern.
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: And feels like it wasn't planned. Super well, like, I'm glad.
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: I mean it isn't really planned well where he used
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: all of his guns.
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's so clearly premeditated, but like erratically premeditated,
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: so disordered. Yeah, so I think for now that's probably
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: enough of the unsavory details related to the investigation's findings.
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: It's probably fair to say that, although it wasn't intentional,
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: leaving you on a cliffhanger regarding a certain hero in
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: this story might be considered a bit cruel and unusual.
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: I would say she did comment about this. His efforts,
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: no doubt, ensured the safety and survival countless others, But
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: what of his own. Chrismin's like many others, had been
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: rushed to receive emergency care that was desperately needed. He'd
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: been You're not even gonna believe this. He had been
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: shot in the back, abdomen and hands. Oh wow, both
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: of his legs were broken as well. What okay, Now
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: I had to put this in when I just randomly
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: came across this. Okay, both of his legs were broken
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: as well, And despite the speculation of his MMA subreddit buddies,
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: it did not appear these injuries in particular had been sustained,
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: and I quote, from the weight of his gargantuan balls.
• 53:52
  Speaker 3: Looks like such a dude b friend thing.
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: It was like in such a like, in such a
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: sweet way. Wasn't like in the gross dude bro way.
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: Despite seemingly insurmountable odds, Chris survived the ordeal.
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: He lived. He lived, He lived to tell his own tale.
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: I remember seeing pictures of this man and it's been
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: obviously years and when I was researching this and I'm like,
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: you fucking lived. You made me think he died. I
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: didn't not make you think he died. I mean, you
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: were shot seven times. I had two broken legs. How
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: did he break his legs gargantuan balls just struggling under
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: the weight of his swimple? I love. There were a
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: lot of really I mean people asked the same thing
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: in that particular Reddit thread, and there was someone that
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: purported to be related to him was like, he's okay.
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: I mean, he's super not okay, but like he's gonna
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: be okay wow. In the thread, and people were like,
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: how do you break those lakes? And they were like
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: there were a lot of commenters that were like, that'll
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: happen when your body is pierced by bullets.
• 55:29
  Speaker 3: Like, is that what it was?
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: It's a little bit unclear if it was directly related
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: to like a bullet like a gunshot wound, or if
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: it may have been related to a fall which was
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: precipitated by a separate gunshot wound.
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: Like I kind of pictured him jumping off of something
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: and doing like the superhero like like a backflip or
• 55:56
  Speaker 2: and then like, you're not actually a superhero super regularly, right, Yeah,
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: you're like, oh shit, but he is actually a superhero superhero.
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: Like I'm not trying to simp, but I mean spirk.
• 56:09
  Speaker 3: Also, have you guys seen him?
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: He's not about, like, you know, love a guy named
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: Chris though too? Am I right?
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: Find out if he is single? He's got a lumberjack
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: vibe he does?
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: Oh my god, I didn't even I should.
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: Have known, which I've recently become addicted to Instagram. I know,
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: shocking because I'm chronically offline. I found the hashtag lumber
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: snack and I'll never go back.
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: Is it all just pictures of Christman's I mean I
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: should be Chris Miles.
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, nice hashtag, you guys?
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: Oh boy? Okay, So the boy that lived, I am.
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: I mean, he is fully a miles but I'm like
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: on a roller coaster right now.
• 57:05
  Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm so glad, so I'm setting and so
• 57:11
  Speaker 2: good at the same time.
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: I know, I was like, does this not explain the
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: literal nausea that I've experienced today? I feel like I'd
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: have done that alone. I think, Yeah, I mean, it
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: really is. Shortly after surgery news trickled out he was
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: expected to make a full recovery, though it would certainly
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: be along road, as he would literally have to learn
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: how to walk again.
• 57:39
  Speaker 3: Oh wow, is legs. We're broken that badly?
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: You're apparently that's bad. Yeah, yeah, a lot of venturies.
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: I guess they don't know, like the extent you would
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: have to break your legs to have to learn how
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: to walk again, But I imagine it's pretty bad.
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: Great, No, I mean not in everything here sucks except
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: it like he lived. Yeah, huh okay. I don't know
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: what he's made of, but it seems honestly almost reasonable
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: to speculate that it might not be from this planet.
• 58:14
  Speaker 3: It's gargantuine balls.
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: He's just made of gargantuine balls.
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: That's it. As someone who cares so little about Actually no.
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: You know what's funny though, is because the thing is
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: is like, vaginas are tougher than balls, right, So he's
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: clearly made of.
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: The toughest, finest pussy alone. God please edit carefully, my friends. Okay. Also,
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: like many of the Reddit commenters in this same thread,
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: I too wish him free drinks forever, seriously, in perpetuity.
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: His family immediately recognized there would be pretty significant medical
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: bills related to his recovery. When they set up a
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: GoFundMe to accept donations. It received over six hundred and
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: fifty thousand dollars by the end of that first day.
• 59:19
  Speaker 3: The first day, Wow, as it should. He's a fucking hero.
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: He was released from the hospital on October seventh. By
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: October seventeenth, just ten days later, reporting indicated the total
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: of donations had risen to over eight hundred thousand dollars.
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: In twenty sixteen, Chris was a Citizen Honors awardee, being
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: recognized for a single active heroism by the Congressional Medal
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: of Honor Society. Wow, which I think probably is a
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: pretty big deal. I'm sure it meant a lot to him.
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: Whatever feelings were so gross. I think it's important that
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: storytelling doesn't just focus on the doom and gloom or
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: the gruesome details. I felt really good to share parts
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: of the story that feel like the silver lining in
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: the face of tragedy.
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, because there's not always that there. Yeah, like there's
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 3: really not.
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: However, I also think that I'd be incredibly remiss if
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: I didn't end on another equally important note. On October first,
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: twenty fifteen, Christopher Sean Harper Mercer, whose name was intentionally
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: redacted from many statements provided by law enforcement about his
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: truly hideous, an unforgivably violent crime, left nine victims dead
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: in his wake. Eight if the victims died at the campus,
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: while the ninth was sadly declared at the Mercy Medical
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: Center following the deadly shooting. He also died that day
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: of a self inflicted gunshot wound. His awful mental health
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: may have played a part in him perpetrating this tragedy. He, however,
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: does not belong listed amongst the victims. It almost seems
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: trite to say that there were also numerous other victims
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: left wounded and otherwise traumatized. The victims who died that
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: day ranged in age from eighteen to sixty seven. Wow,
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: and included students as well as staff. And I'm really
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: sorry if I don't pronounce. He's right. I don't even
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: know that. I would assume that local news coverage necessarily
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: was able to get in touch with people that were
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: able to verify pronunciation. So I'm just going to do
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: my best and know that we don't take those things slightly.
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: Their names are Laurence Levine, Lucero alcras Quinn, Glenn Cooper,
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: lucas Ibel, Jason Dale Johnson, Trevin Taylor, On Spach, Rebecca
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: Ann Carnes, Kim Saltmarsh Beats, and Serena don Moore, who
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: all died in the shooting among the wounded. And it's
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: possible that there are a great deal more. These are
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: those that were published that I could find. Christopher Mintz,
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: Julie Woodward, Amber McMurtry, Tracy Hugh, Anastagia Boylan Tenaya, Laverne
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: Rand McGowan, and Cheyenne Fitzgerald. Y'all go and make me
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: lose an eyelash. Oh yeah, you just made it worse too,
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: did I?
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: Oh? Is it bad? It's falling? Fuck it up it's
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: flying off enough of the ship. Please edit this out. Well,
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 1: we'll come back with fresh eyelashes for Darryl after we
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: maybe eat some food.
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 2: I think it's very poetic that you cried off your
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: lashes during this episode.
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: Oh stop make me look beautiful at all times. That
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: is a direct command.
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 3: Okay, cover your eyes.
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 2: Okay, should we go to Tarot, Yeah, yeah, let's go
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 2: fix your lashes, have a snack, dry our eyes. I
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 2: feel like I'm a robot because I'm not crying, but
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 2: I'm like bawling in turn.
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: But like I mean, I did the dumb thing, which
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: was as I have known for years, is to to
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: like let yourself feel the feelings and then and then
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: this happens.
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 2: Oh man, Okay, well I'm gonna pee in silently cry
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 2: in the bathroom by myself.
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: Okay, I'll see you at Tero. Holy Rock.
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 2: It's aggressive, she says. Oh, it's it of swords and reverse.
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 2: Oh the cat die. It a little critter underneath it,
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 2: hiding in the shadow. Oh, it's like hiding in the
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 2: shadows like I'm sure a lot of people were trying
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 2: to fucking hide from this hawk in the sky.
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: That's kind of eerie imagery. I'm just gonna say that
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 1: dry in terms of like I'm I try. I was
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: just going to say, very evocative imagery. Yeah.
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 2: It is interesting though, because like, okay, first let me
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 2: get this out of my brain before I forget. So
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 2: cactus is like pokey crappy like the story Folks and jasses.
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 2: But then there's like a flower at the top of
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 2: this cactus. So that's like the silver lining you were
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 2: talking about, like the pretty I know some of the
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: good things that were in the story.
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, which, honestly, the good things are just that the
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: guy who was shot seven times lived, right, But that's
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 1: like a really good I mean great, but also like
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: what it took to get us to a good thing.
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 5: Yeah, and the dog lives and satisfy is to like
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 5: have that dog live, and it's like sole purpose for
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 5: living is now gone.
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: I know what that broke my heart?
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 2: Oh it reminds me of like the dogs who like
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 2: lay on their owner's grave.
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes, okay, So terro terro is I think
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: traditionally supposed to cheer us up. So here we go, okay,
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: aid of sorts. Our keywords are entrapment, self, undoing, fear, helplessness, bondage, denial,
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: and deception, all of it. Yeah. That feels about the bondage.
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: I mean I think you, I think you have to
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: think of it in the context of being just bound
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 1: to this.
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 3: Situation or like the entrapment kind of or like the
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 3: self entrapment.
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah. In many decks, the aid of swords shows a
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: person bound and blindfolded, ringed by a prison of sorts. Wow,
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: you should have gone to prison well, because swords represent
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 1: thoughts and beliefs. Wow, this card says you've created your
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: own prison with your ideas and only you can free yourself.
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 2: What was I saying earlier about look at yourself and
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 2: why you don't have any friends?
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 1: And maybe I mean in the context of this particular
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: person and this case, the part that really kind of
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: grabs me is only you can free yourself.
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 2: Oh and he shot himself too, Yeah yeah, but he
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 2: also could have freed himself away before that.
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: Definitely. Yeah. I mean, here's the thing. Famously, at least
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 1: famously in my household, there's a saying life's all about choices.
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: That was a choice, A couple of them, A few,
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 1: I would say, a series of choices feels accurate. To
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 1: break through the barrier you've built, you must change the
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: way you see and do things. Sometimes this means rejecting
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 1: social norms or going against the status quo. You also
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: need to get focused and get moving. Perhaps you have
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: your head in the clouds, said was somewhere. The reverse
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 1: eight warns you to get your affairs in order or
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: the situation could worsen, which I feel like, in the
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 1: most opposite of ways, applies to both the perpetrator and
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: then also at the same time, I feel like it
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 1: applies to the hero of the day. Yeah, because it's
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: sort of like he sprang into action because it's like,
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 1: I don't want this to go worse. Oh yeah, really
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: approaching this like I mean like a one man in
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 1: at least that initial response, like a one man military response.
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: And obviously we have, you know, we've expressed complicated feelings
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 1: about guns, the military, law enforcement, a whole host of things. Really,
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: but I mean, there's no two ways about it. This
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 1: is someone who did an incredibly heroic thing. Okay, I'm
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: going to get to the rest here. In a reading
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 1: about money, this card says you may not be dealing
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: forthrightly with a financial problem or probably any problem forever
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 1: and ever. Amen. If you've been putting off paying your taxes,
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 1: for example, Okay, well now I feel personally targeted.
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 2: Okay, come on, I get this. Every tax season we
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 2: pull this fucking card. We're busy, just did those last year?
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: Where to god we did those like a month ago?
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 1: Or settling a legal matter, take care of it promptly
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 1: to avoid more trouble. Sometimes this eight indicates bad advice
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 1: or deception four chan, anyone I was going.
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 3: To say, the bad advice is probably all the forums. Yes, yeah.
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 1: If the reading is about your job, the reverse eight
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 1: tells you to stop playing the victim. You may feel persecuted, trapped,
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: or limited in your work, but you must take responsibility
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 1: for where you're at and do something about it. No
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 1: one was him six with me. I mean, that's not
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 1: technically his desired profession, as I understand it, But I
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: do think sometimes, you know, with the bullets, we can
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 1: kind of take the overarching lessons and apply them where
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: they feel applicable.
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 3: Wait read it again?
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: Am I dumb?
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 3: Did I like not even hear you?
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 4: No?
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: No, no, no, you heard it. You just interpreted. You
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 1: just interpreted, You applied it where it was needed. Okay,
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 1: let me hear it again, just in case. If the
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: reading is about your job, the reverse eight tells you
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 1: to stop playing the victim.
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 3: Stop playing the victim.
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, yeah, so I mean it's all just about
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 1: in general. Yes, in a reading about love, you may
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 1: feel tied to a person, perhaps because you're afraid to
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 1: be alone or unwilling to support yourself.
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 3: I feel like his mom.
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 2: I mean, not love obviously in a well we don't know,
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 2: but I mean hopefully not a romantic way, but in
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 2: a romantic sense per se, but family love.
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 1: Take this and apply it to whoever in the story.
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 1: You feel like this card can mean you're not facing
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: up to what's really going on personally. I think this
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 1: applies to more than one person. If you've been listening
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 1: to someone else's advice, the time has come to listen
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 1: to your inner guidance, which I feel like applies to
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: very few people in this story. Okay, extra excerpt, and
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: I will say this is Franklin D. Roosevelt from his
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 1: first inaugural address. Friend of the Pod, friend of the pot,
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 1: former friend of the Pod. Well, I don't know. I mean,
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 1: we have complicated.
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 3: Feelings about all the presidents. Okay, it's just it is
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 3: what it is.
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 1: Honestly, I think we need to just take a page
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 1: out of the Tennis book and just start calling them
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 1: listeners of the pod. Okay, yeah, famously listener of the pod.
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 1: The only thing we have to fear is fear. It's
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 1: so damn it's kind of like true.
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 2: And you even in the sense that obviously, like these
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 2: people were scared, right, but they were scared of a
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 2: like scared man, you know, like he was like fear. Yes, racist,
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 2: Like that's what I think.
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 1: All those people are just a very small person, yeah,
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 1: a very small person. But I also my initial interpretation
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 1: of this immediately upon reading this, I just got I
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 1: got Chris, I think so too. Yeah, for sure, He's like,
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 1: the only thing that I'm afraid of is being so
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: afraid that I will not act. And I mean, this
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 1: is an incredible situation. This is I mean, I mean
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 1: truly a situation that most people hopefully are never put in.
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 1: That's the hope, that's the hope that you should go
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 1: your entire life and never be faced with a situation
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 1: like this. We live in one of the arguably wealthiest
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 1: countries in the world, and there is there's no reason
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 1: that anyone in the world, and wealth should have nothing
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 1: to do with that. I feel sort of guilty for
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 1: conflating that, like, oh, we're one of the wealthiest countries
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 1: in the world. Why is this happening here? Because ultimately
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 1: that has it should have no impact. That these are
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 1: just situations that in modern civilized society anywhere on the
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 1: face of God's green Earth at this point, that that
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 1: people should have this just should not this should not
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 1: be so common, right, Well.
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 2: I feel like the thing is is that we don't
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 2: live in a fucking civilized society, right is it civilized?
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 3: Look at it? Like, are we?
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 1: I mean, the rest of the world is living in
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 1: a civilized society to some degree. I don't know if
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: anybody is honestly like yeah, I mean, God, I feel
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 1: like you really have to wonder.
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 2: It's all just a bunch of animals living on animal
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 2: instinct at this point.
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 1: And I mean I feel like that maybe has never changed.
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: And maybe that's the part where we're sort of maybe
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 1: we're fooling ourselves, but we do.
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 2: Okay, I take that back, because obviously some of us
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 2: are civilized, and some of us save other people's lives
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 2: in you know, the face of danger and risk our
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 2: own right. Those those are the civilized people fighting against
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 2: the uncivilized I mean, people who want to shoot everybody.
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 3: What the fuck?
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 1: It's a tough one to really feel like you have
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: the right thing to say. I don't. I mean to
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 1: be fair. I don't know that we've ever made such
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 1: a proclamation. Is we have all the you know, the
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 1: right things to say, We have all the best words.
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 1: We famously have all the wrong words and.
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 3: Nothing to say.
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah. As podcasters, we famously have a lot of very
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 1: nonverbal interactions. Wow, should we go to the little book?
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 3: It's a piut brown squirrel?
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 1: Piu pi u t e. Yeah, hyut piut. That would
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 1: be my interpretation as a okay, piute brown squirrel. Y'all imprisonless? Wow, imprisonless, prisonless.
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 1: It's this imprisonment, powerlessness, trapped, self imposed restrictions and limitations,
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 1: negative thoughts, so pretty much the same. Yeah.
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 2: It had started as a simple foraging trip. The sun
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 2: was high and the ground was hot. The dry air
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 2: felt good on the squirrel's fur as she surfaced from
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 2: the tunnel, but she was in quite a predicament. Careless,
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 2: a moment too long, gnawing on a meaty route had
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 2: exposed her to the hawk. Oh it is a hawk.
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 3: I knew it. M Oh, this is ooh. I'm like
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 3: have chills all over my body.
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 2: Okay, great, because I knew, just like looking at the
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 2: card what was happening. She'd made a mad dash for
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 2: the nearest altar. Practically and paling herself on the cactus's needles,
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 2: she dove into its dubious protection. Pinned down, the raptor circled,
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 2: knowing her exact position. If she bolted, it would reach
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 2: her before she could disappear. Into the nearest tunnel, she
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 2: searched for escape routes in the open sand surrounding her.
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 2: Lack of thought had trapped her here. Maybe she could
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 2: think her way out.
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 1: Let me think of Tracy. Wow, okay, you did say raptor. Correct.
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they're talking about the hawk. Uh huh is that
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 2: something in the.
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 1: I just feel like the significance of like think about
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 1: like military because this is X. I mean wow, if
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 1: you can call it that ex military as the perpetrator
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 1: and also a true veteran that you know again, I'm
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 1: I mean, god, I don't want to sound like I'm
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 1: just fawning over but fonn this is like the person
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 1: that's proved to be the hero quite literally and actually
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 1: a veteran, someone who has you know, served terms like
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 1: raptor hawk. These are like they're incorporated into the nomenclature
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 1: of the United States military, Like.
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 2: I thought you were thinking of like a raptor as
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 2: like a literal dynostoric kind of.
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 1: I mean, we.
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 2: Don't know, but like in the movies, they're kind of
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 2: like erratic and like.
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 1: Fast, and I mean that's where my head first went
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 1: because I kind of listen, even though I am a
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 1: super adorable and obviously still a relatable young woman of
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 1: a mere twenty nine, I do remember Jurassic Park, and
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 1: that is of course first and foremost, like.
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 3: The eyes, like, oh my gosh.
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think I've showed you a picture of
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 1: the perpetrator, have I? I sent you some other photos
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 1: related to this. You showed me the one where his
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 1: face wasn't showing. Yeah, okay, so that's I mean, technically
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 1: you have seen a picture of him.
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 2: But okay, gosh, this is just so crazy though, Like
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 2: someone is literally hiding like in the shadows, being hunted
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 2: and afraid to run out because they'll be like exposed.
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 3: It's just crazy.
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 1: I mean so like it works both literally and metaphorically.
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 1: I'm going to air drop you. This was screenshotted from
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 1: last from the past. His MySpace moist space sounded like
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 1: you're about to say moist space, moist moisty. O, my
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 1: space is so moist.
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 2: Oh okay, I know this now seeing the seeing his photo,
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 2: I remember this. Yeah, I don't know why, like just
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 2: that one in the red shirt, the photo in the
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 2: red shirt, Like I remember.
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 1: That phot No, I mean that was used in a
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 1: lot of the coverage about about this case. He was
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 1: also very big supporter of the IRA, which.
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 2: I see that what is that Irish Republican Army.
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's fun. That is a whole less can of
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 1: worms to uh. I'd prefer not to comment on the
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 1: IRA as a significantly Irish person of listen that it
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 1: may not be popular amongst some Irish folks, but I
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 1: think it's hard to argue that the IRA is not
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 1: a terrorist organization.
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 3: Huh.
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 1: They're responsible for a lot of the car bombings during
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 1: the troubles. I mean, ultimately, as far as I know,
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 1: all of all of the bombings in in Ireland during
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 1: that period.
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 2: Is that where the Irish car bomb comes from? Yes,
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 2: let's fucked up. Yes, yes see I didn't know that, Okay.
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 3: I just thought it was a fun drink.
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no it is. It's a very it's a very
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 1: fun drink. I just did a shit ton of them
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 1: and got really sedate on Saan Potric's day. Yeah, you
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 1: know most people do. Yeah, when in Dublin.
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 2: We should rename it, rename it something better, petition to
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 2: rename the Irish carbomb.
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 1: Honestly, I will say the Irish car bomb as a
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 1: cocktail is to the human body what an actual Irish
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 1: car bomb is to the human body.
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 3: We have a TikTok of us doing them.
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 2: I think we should probably include it, honestly. Okay, we
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 2: did it really wrong, Like it was like we knew
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 2: we were doing it wrong.
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 3: So but it was just funny.
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 1: I mean, they weren't. They weren't. I can't remember what
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 1: we did wrong, but they weren't like.
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 3: Oh we put they were the wrong out of order
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 3: or no. But it was like the wrong kind of glass.
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 2: And I think we did a whole beer instead of
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 2: you're supposed to do like half a beer.
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 1: Most people don't do a half or like people. I
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 1: think it's like a third of a beer. Yeah, people
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 1: don't do that.
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 2: We poured whole beers, but we were being funny.
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, have a creepiest day.
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 3: See you next Tuesday.
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 1: I can't say anything else because we said a lot
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 1: of things off Mike.
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 3: That guns are bad.
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 1: Okay, it's been quite the day. Okay, he didn't really die, right, continuing, Okay,
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 1: were you faking out? I wouldn't say it was faking.
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 1: I feel like if you bought the performance, Like, wasn't
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 1: it real to you?
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 2: It was alive, bitch, Cutie Petuti is alive, bitch, bitch.
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 1: Okay, but I need, I need. I didn't say he
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 1: was alive. I didn't say he was alive.
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 3: God damn it.
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 1: Maybe he just survived long enough so that he didn't
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 1: die onn Sin's birthday.
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 3: I hate all of you right now. I hate you.
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 1: I hear you. You hate every fiber of my being.
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 1: And that's fair, that's honestly, I'll say that's fair. Okay.
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 1: I was going to marry him, Okay, I mean, if
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 1: I wasn't already married to it Chris, that would be
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 1: you know okay, okay, real okay. Back to the episode,
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 1: Real talk though,