Latest / Drama, Darling: A Real Housewives Comedy Podcast / Criminally Darling: The Slippery Podcast on Jen Shah’s Telemarketing Scam + New Podcast ‘The Lexi Con’ (Lexi Thomas)

Transcript

Criminally Darling: The Slippery Podcast on Jen Shah’s Telemarketing Scam + New Podcast ‘The Lexi Con’ (Lexi Thomas) · Drama, Darling: A Real Housewives Comedy Podcast

• 0:19
  Speaker 1: Welcome back, darlings. Today we are welcoming back two of
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: my favorite investigative producers and investigative minds, Nancy Muscatello and
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: Scott Eldredge. You know them from the incredible Scamanda Investigation podcast.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: And now they are back. They have just dropped their
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: latest podcast on The Slippery. It's called Lexicon. That is
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: the latest and greatest scammer that you guys have covered.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: And also, we are going to discuss the Jen Shah
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: investigation that you did. And you dropped that not too
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: long ago. So welcome back in, Nancy and Scott. How
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: are you doing?
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: Thanks for having us.
• 0:57
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah. Thanks for having us. And these worlds collide,
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: funny enough. So just a little bit.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: I'd say a lot. I loved your Jen Shaw coverage,
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: your podcast. I love how you do it. You kind
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: of break it down where you do the investigation and
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: then you have a sort of a follow-up episode where
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: you kind of banter and talk about a little bit
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: of the, you know, other extracurricular things. Then you tie
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: it into the next case, sort of. I love the
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: format of your podcast. And- Boy, you are thorough. It's
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: like all the stuff that I knew about Jen Shah
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: and even the deep dives that I went on, just
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: listening to this coverage that you did, I was like,
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: holy cow.
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: Oh, thank you.
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: Slimy little lady.
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: She was. She's dirty. Yeah, she knew what she was doing.
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: I'm going to call and I'm going to start trying
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: to see what happens when you call and do these things.
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: I'm like, yeah, go for it. See what happens.
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: You know, she was given six years and she got
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: out in two. Do you know why that ends up happening?
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: I mean, I know kind of like generally, but why
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: did that happen with her? She did, these were some big,
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: big charges from the feds.
• 2:08
  Speaker 4: Typically, if you do federal time, you do 85% of
• 2:11
  Speaker 4: your time. I can't remember exactly what her, you know,
• 2:15
  Speaker 4: the months were on hers, but when you calculate in
• 2:18
  Speaker 4: good behavior, sometimes they have diversion programs as well. It just,
• 2:23
  Speaker 4: you know, They want you out of prisons. They don't
• 2:25
  Speaker 4: want you in prisons here. So yeah, it seems it's
• 2:29
  Speaker 4: a shame. It's a shame though, because everybody, you know,
• 2:32
  Speaker 4: we did another case, Amy, on Andrew Luster, who just
• 2:35
  Speaker 4: walked out of prison after 24 years. He was sentenced
• 2:38
  Speaker 4: to 124 years here in California and walked out. So nobody,
• 2:44
  Speaker 4: and the people, the victims in that case thought that,
• 2:48
  Speaker 4: even with good behavior, he wouldn't be out before he's 80.
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: He's 60 and he walked out.
• 2:52
  Speaker 4: So the same with Jen Shaw, like all of these
• 2:55
  Speaker 4: senior citizens who lost their life savings that are literally
• 2:59
  Speaker 4: living destitute now.
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: Not she would do six years. She did two years.
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: I could do two years standing on my head.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: You'd say that.
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: I could.
• 3:09
  Speaker 4: I could.
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: I'm tough.
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: I could do it too. It was the same with
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: Amanda Riley. Scamanda, she got five and she ultimately did
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: just under three. So, and that was the same thing.
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: And this is, this was something that changed on the books, uh,
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: in 2016 federally that, um, that the first Trump administration
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: changed things for white collar crime. They changed like a
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: nuanced wording. So you didn't have to do, it was
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: more about like when you hit a certain milestone and
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: then there's a calculation with it. So it was just
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: something that, that was put into play there to kind
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: of free up space. I think it was a lot
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: of it too.
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: Um, So at the end of the podcast, you talked
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: about how like this one woman is homeless. They have
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: so much debt. These people are elderly and these are
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: not all the victims. You know, these are just ones
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: that even spoke out just for this case. So will
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: they be getting any kind of restitution? How will they
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: be able to survive? Who will pay them back?
• 4:08
  Speaker 4: She's allegedly, you know, she has restitution to pay whether
• 4:12
  Speaker 4: she comes up with it or not. typically in these cases,
• 4:16
  Speaker 4: they don't see a lot of restitution. You don't see,
• 4:18
  Speaker 4: you see pennies on the dollar. So if those people
• 4:20
  Speaker 4: get back 30% of what they lost, that would be
• 4:24
  Speaker 4: a win for them. It's not like, and you know,
• 4:27
  Speaker 4: everybody who does this, especially Jen, who has, you know,
• 4:30
  Speaker 4: a lot of experience in running an organization and a scheme,
• 4:35
  Speaker 4: believe me, trust me, not every dollar that comes into
• 4:38
  Speaker 4: her account is going straight out to pay her restitution.
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: Like they're, you know, You bypass, you know.
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: I absolutely believe that. And, you know, sometimes when things
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: like this happen, I'm like, oh, they want to do,
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: you know, they've got their comeback tour and they're doing
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: interviews now. And I'm like, okay, I kind of want
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: them to be getting paid for this so that that
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: money can go towards the victims. That's sort of why,
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: like with Erica Jane, Erica Girardi on The Real Housewives
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: of Beverly Hills, you know, everything that happened with Tom Girardi,
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: you know, part of me that whole time was like,
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: Let's keep her on the show. Let's have her make
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: money so that she can pay some of these victims,
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: that type of thing. So in many ways, I kind
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: of want that.
• 5:21
  Speaker 3: If that's what actually happens. There's so many times that
• 5:24
  Speaker 3: you hear like, well, we're paying an entity or we're
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: paying this and she's not getting it. But you know
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: what I mean? Like there's there's ways around that, too.
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: So there really has to be something structured and put
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: in place for that to actually happen or it just
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: doesn't happen.
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: Wait, Amy, you're an expert in this space.
• 5:40
  Speaker 4: What did you think of her idea of Real Housewives
• 5:43
  Speaker 4: of Prison?
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: I loved it.
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: I absolutely loved it.
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: I love the people that you cast on it. I
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: think you said Anna Delvey. Wait, you didn't mention. Oh, yes, Scamanda,
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: of course. Elizabeth Holmes. I'm curious.
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, because she was there with Jen Shaw. Right.
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: Are you guys, have you covered that yet?
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: No, I mean, I know that you're covering it.
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: I know you went, it's so good.
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 6:10
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: Um, well, yeah, I'm going to cover it with, uh,
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: this therapist. Actually, we're going to do a breakdown of
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: the psychological stuff that we watched in the documentary film.
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: So that's kind of where we're going with that. Uh,
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: that's the angle we're taking.
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: Are you just going to have closeups of your eyes
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: the whole time?
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: Exactly. Just like this the whole time. We're just going
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: to keep going back and forth. Are you for real
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: right now? Um, So but getting back to Jen Shah,
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: as Bravo fans, you know, what do we fundamentally miss
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: about what she did? For those of us who are
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: not or did not really follow up on the seriousness
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: of the matter, we just kind of took it for
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: what it's worth, what we saw in the headlines. What
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: did we misunderstand, if anything?
• 6:56
  Speaker 4: Hard to say, but I would say it was much
• 6:59
  Speaker 4: more calculated than you would think.
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: I think she played it off.
• 7:02
  Speaker 4: And probably Bravo as well because you don't want to
• 7:05
  Speaker 4: go down every rabbit hole. It's just that she was
• 7:09
  Speaker 4: kind of attached to it. It was her company, but
• 7:12
  Speaker 4: she wasn't really like calling the shots day to day.
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: But she was calling the shots. She was directing traffic.
• 7:19
  Speaker 4: She's the traffic cop that says, okay, so we have
• 7:23
  Speaker 4: Amy in the house.
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: She's on the line.
• 7:25
  Speaker 4: She's with our sales floor, which is basically a telemarketer, right?
• 7:29
  Speaker 4: And she seems like she has a decent amount of money.
• 7:33
  Speaker 4: Jen is like, okay, kick her over to the other
• 7:35
  Speaker 4: sales floor because we can get more money out of her.
• 7:38
  Speaker 4: And then that sales floor communicates back to Jen, hey,
• 7:42
  Speaker 4: she still has some more money. We think they're like, okay,
• 7:44
  Speaker 4: let's go. Jen sends her for the clean out. That's
• 7:48
  Speaker 4: where they go for like the big $ 30, 000, $ 40, 000 sweep.
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: So She was very involved with it. She knew what
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: she was doing.
• 7:55
  Speaker 4: She tried to claim even in her plea that she
• 7:59
  Speaker 4: got in business with people that she didn't realize what
• 8:01
  Speaker 4: was going on.
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: That is not the case. She knew what was going on.
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: She was a puppet master.
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: It was made very clear in your podcast. And Scott,
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: you really... you got your hands dirty and you went
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: in there and can you explain like what you did?
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: I don't want to give everything away, but like, can
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: you just give a little teaser about how you went
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: about figuring out what she was doing?
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: Well, part of this business, right? It's, you know, work
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: from home.
• 8:29
  Speaker 4: You get, you start an Amazon store or some sort
• 8:32
  Speaker 4: of online store and you make money doing that. So
• 8:35
  Speaker 4: of course we all get those on our phones, right?
• 8:38
  Speaker 4: And you're scrolling Instagram. So I hit one and I,
• 8:41
  Speaker 4: contacted and they called me and I went down the
• 8:45
  Speaker 4: rabbit hole for a couple of hours with them.
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So I would, I played the game. They don't
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: waste time.
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: They get right to you. And I mean, Scott was saying,
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: they were like asking financial questions, like right off the bat.
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: And what do you do and how you do it?
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: You know, like trying desperately to get to the credit
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: card right away. Cause that's like tier one.
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: That's the big thing.
• 9:08
  Speaker 4: The big thing is they want you to sign up
• 9:10
  Speaker 4: for the credit card that they're going to get you.
• 9:13
  Speaker 4: So it's probably 30% interest, but there's no interest for
• 9:16
  Speaker 4: the first year.
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: It doesn't cost you anything, Scott. It's free.
• 9:20
  Speaker 4: I mean, this is free money. You're not going to
• 9:22
  Speaker 4: owe anything for this business. By the time you have
• 9:24
  Speaker 4: to make a payment on this credit card, you're going
• 9:26
  Speaker 4: to be rolling in cash.
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: That's the pitch. Over and over.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: Is that their credit card? Is that what they set
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: up as their own credit card?
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: That is a company that they partner with.
• 9:38
  Speaker 4: So that company sells you the credit card and then
• 9:41
  Speaker 4: they get.
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: A VIG off of that.
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: Oh my God. So when Jen Shaw went down, obviously
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: so many other people went down. And so I would
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: imagine those floors in New York, you know, those, I
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: don't know what you call them, boiler rooms or whatever.
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: And then.
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: And then these credit card people, too. I would imagine
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: they were taken down.
• 10:05
  Speaker 4: Yeah. You know, there were several people that were taken
• 10:08
  Speaker 4: down before Jen. She saw this coming, which is why
• 10:12
  Speaker 4: she changed the names of her companies.
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: Oh, my God. That's what blew me away. When you said...
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: that they were coming for her and she kind of
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: like skirted out of it. She saw it coming and
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: then changed the names of her company and doubled down
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: and kept going. I was like, you've got to be
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: kidding me. That to me is, you know, you are
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: completely caught. You deliberately knew what you were doing because
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: you tried to skirt around it.
• 10:40
  Speaker 4: Why?
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: Like, why would you do that?
• 10:42
  Speaker 4: Well, remember she was, she was, Providing the leads. That
• 10:46
  Speaker 4: was her main business. I provide leads. You know, I
• 10:50
  Speaker 4: give you, I give the directory to them of like
• 10:52
  Speaker 4: basically suckers that will buy your, you know, lousy coaching services.
• 10:57
  Speaker 4: So the feds caught on to those coaching service firms,
• 11:01
  Speaker 4: you know, the sales floors, because Jen didn't have a
• 11:04
  Speaker 4: sales floor originally. She was, you know, just providing the
• 11:07
  Speaker 4: leads and you get money from the leads. They pay
• 11:09
  Speaker 4: you a, you know, a commission on those. Okay.
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 11:12
  Speaker 4: So when those people started getting busted, that's when Jen said, Ooh,
• 11:17
  Speaker 4: they just got busted. There's room for the sales floor.
• 11:20
  Speaker 4: I could create my own sales floor now. So that's
• 11:22
  Speaker 4: what she did. She took over the supply and the
• 11:25
  Speaker 4: demand side of it, both sides of it now.
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: So she's making money.
• 11:29
  Speaker 4: And then she changed her, you know, company names because
• 11:32
  Speaker 4: when the heat, you know, got close to her, she
• 11:35
  Speaker 4: knew like, I'll just cloak it and nobody will ever know.
• 11:38
  Speaker 4: I ditched these other two names, but they, you know,
• 11:40
  Speaker 4: They're smart. Those feds, they'll figure it out.
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: It's unbelievable that somebody would see other people get busted
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: for crimes that you are connected to, that you would
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: be like, ooh, an opportunity. They've been taken down. I'll
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: step in. And as if you're not going to get busted.
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: That's what is so mind-blowing to me.
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: It's a hallmark of a con because they don't think
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: like you may or I may. It's a different filter,
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: especially long-term cons. it works a little different.
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: You mentioned that. And I, can you explain that a
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: little bit more about like the psychology behind that? I mean,
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: is that a personality thing where it's like, oh, this
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: is exciting. There's a red flag in front of me.
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: I'm going to go ahead and move forward.
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, I was going to say, I'm not,
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: I'm not a psychologist. Just from the different, you know,
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: profilers or different people we spoke to, they, they explained
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: it like that. Like you, where we would be, you know,
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: pooping our pants that someone's coming after us or, you know,
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: that would scare us into I better lie low or
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: I better stop. It's a different mechanism or filter that
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: it just ignites them a little bit more. And they
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: don't feel that. They don't feel that fear of what's coming.
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: I am an amateur psychologist. I will tell you, they
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: are sociopaths.
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: I was just going to say, it sounds like a sociopath.
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
• 13:03
  Speaker 4: That's why we actually started this show because we've covered
• 13:06
  Speaker 4: crimes for so long and murderers are interesting.
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: Obviously, a lot of people tune into them.
• 13:12
  Speaker 4: It's not what we really wanted to cover because people
• 13:15
  Speaker 4: who commit scams are in it for the long haul.
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: They do it for the scams that we cover on
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: our show. These people are doing it for two years,
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: five years, 10 years, and then they stop or they
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: get caught and they go back to scamming. It is
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: just built into them.
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: I did not. It's because you can't wrap your head
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: around it, When you're not a scammer, you know, that's
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: the thing. You're just like, but why wouldn't you stop?
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: I get it now. You know, you just, it is
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: programmed in you. That is just part of your, you know,
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: your unique tapestry, I suppose.
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, yeah.
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: Look at Sherry Papini. I mean, she finally got caught.
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: She gets busted. She does time. She admits to it all. Right.
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: Goes to prison, comes out and then starts raping. all
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: over like weaving the whole, Oh, Nope. That wasn't the case.
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: What you saw all my confession. Nope.
• 14:09
  Speaker 4: Nope.
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: Somebody put me up and just starts over. I have
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: a book. I have a, this it's now I'm really
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: going to tell you what happened. I'm finally freed up
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: enough to, I mean, like it's.
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 14:19
  Speaker 4: In case you're, in case you're not aware, Sherry Papini
• 14:21
  Speaker 4: is out on the, her book tour was lying again,
• 14:26
  Speaker 4: telling you the same BS story that she told cops, uh,
• 14:30
  Speaker 4: five years ago, six years, 10 years ago, I guess
• 14:32
  Speaker 4: it was now.
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: It's wild.
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: And she she's out there enough that the two profilers
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: and folks that worked on the case that had never
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: talked before did our show because they were like, all right, enough.
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: Like, OK, we need to talk about this. This is
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: a safe space, right?
• 14:51
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, the thing I love about your podcast and
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: what you guys do, you know, broad strokes, is that
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: you like to cover stories where there's a takedown. where
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: the criminals get caught, right? Or at least, I mean,
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: that is pretty much the purpose, correct?
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: That is satisfying, for sure. Not all of them.
• 15:15
  Speaker 4: Our current scam does not have a takedown yet, so
• 15:17
  Speaker 4: we are not... we're not adverse to doing those.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: And that's what, but that's what you're aiming towards. You're
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: not doing it necessarily just for the purpose of entertainment,
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: because like at this point, it's such a saturated market
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: with like true crime and scam stories and things like that.
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: But I think that your angle is different in that
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: you are very selective about the things that you cover
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: and that you get into. And you don't do anything half-assed.
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: You have, like, all of the information when you go in.
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: I mean, when you bring it to us. That's what
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: I really love about what you guys do. I mean,
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: Case in Point Scamanda, obviously, when I just listened to
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: this last, Jen Shaw, all of your episodes. And you
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: have now a new series that you're doing. And it's
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: called Lexicon, which... I have not listened to yet. I
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: just have to tell you because I've been inundated. Oh
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: my God, wait until you dive in. Okay, I've downloaded.
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: I'm doing that this weekend. So I would love to
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: hear what brought you to this. Why did you choose this?
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: And where are you in terms of, has this been solved?
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: You said it hasn't been, correct?
• 16:24
  Speaker 4: Let me first, I'll tee up Nancy because Nancy got
• 16:27
  Speaker 4: the tip on this from Scamanda.
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: It is called the Lexicon. as in one word, lexicon,
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: but it's the Lexi.
• 16:34
  Speaker 4: It's a woman named Lexi Thomas from Maryland.
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: She is a con artist. Nancy got the tip.
• 16:41
  Speaker 4: After Scamanda was airing, two nurses from Nashville reached out
• 16:45
  Speaker 4: to Nancy and said, we think you might have an
• 16:48
  Speaker 4: East Coast Scamanda. Wow.
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: Would you mind looking into this? And so Nancy dove in.
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Joined forces with them as well. They were terrific.
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: They were super helpful. There was a lot of like
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: one of them had a connection to the area from
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: when she was younger. And the other one was just
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: a friend of hers. They were both nurses. So they
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: had a lot of medical knowledge, which really got them
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: thinking after they listened to Scamanda, the one friend said
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: to the other, huh, I grew up with this girl.
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: That's been sick for over a decade. Like everyone donates.
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: She's a, she's a star in this community outside of
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: still sick. Still sick.
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: Oh, really?
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: And she said, now as a, like, she's like, she
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: always makes me like, now as a grownup nurse, I
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: am now thinking. And they went and they started looking
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: back at this huge amount of public stuff. You know,
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: she had a blog, she had the photos, she had Instagram,
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: she had Facebook, you name it, she had it. And
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: it was ongoing. And so we really started picking it
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: apart and documenting everything we could. And it's a tedious process,
• 17:59
  Speaker 3: but it's an important one. And, yeah, so it's the
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: con that chose us for this because we're breaking it.
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: It comes to you. Yeah, it came to us. It's
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: been three years in the making, and it's just a process.
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: Three years.
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: Three years.
• 18:17
  Speaker 4: Wow.
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: Right, because they came to you during, well, when they
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: were listening to Scamanda.
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: Has anyone else covered, like you're the ones who really
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: are breaking this. I haven't seen this out and about.
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: Wow. No.
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: That's exciting.
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: Nobody knows about it.
• 18:31
  Speaker 4: And one of the reasons it took so long is
• 18:35
  Speaker 4: besides the research that Nancy was doing with the nurses,
• 18:38
  Speaker 4: it's also cultivating the interviews. We can't take it, you know,
• 18:41
  Speaker 4: you can't do a podcast all by yourself just telling
• 18:44
  Speaker 4: the story.
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: You kind of have to have some assets.
• 18:47
  Speaker 4: And so much of the three years has been cultivating,
• 18:50
  Speaker 4: making sure that we have enough interviewees from a different
• 18:54
  Speaker 4: angles because these scammers are really good at only showing
• 18:57
  Speaker 4: you one side, one side to this group, one side
• 19:00
  Speaker 4: to that group. So nobody knows where the truth is
• 19:02
  Speaker 4: because everybody knows.
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: A different truth.
• 19:10
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• 27:30
  Speaker 4: We, earlier this year, we confirmed interviews with a couple
• 27:36
  Speaker 4: of key players, including her sister, the scammer's sister. Oh, snap.
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: The scammer's sister?
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: So that was really key.
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, this family's been put through hell by their own
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: flesh and blood.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: Oh, so the family has turned on her.
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: They've turned on each other. She's turned them on each other.
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: They've turned on her.
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: There's a lot.
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: There's so much. It's really a tragedy. Oh, my God.
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: You know, in the trailer.
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: And it takes a lot.
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: It takes a lot for a family to... I made
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: that call to them last year. Finally, and had a
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: heart to heart. And, you know, it could have gone
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: like when I did it for Scamanda, it was, you know,
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: F you and nobody would talk to me. And I
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: was this bad person because she really had a grip
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: on them. And this this was they're just incredibly rational
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: and kind people. And so they listened and they I
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: think there was and we're getting to it in the
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: episodes coming up, some underlying situations that thought they gave
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: them pause. and gave them enough pause to work with
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: me to understand where I was coming from. So you
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: kind of.
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: Gave them information where you were.
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: Oh, my God, no way. Yeah. Yeah. So that's the
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: story we're telling is, you know, there's obviously the con
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: and the horrendous thing that she did for all these years,
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: you know, the faking of disease and cancer eventually and
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: all of this. But it's really a story about a family.
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: And it can happen to any family. And I think
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: that's what we try and show that this, no one
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: is immune. Everyone thinks, oh, this will never happen to
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: me or my family, right?
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And it's such a bonkers story.
• 29:22
  Speaker 4: And we can tell you because we disclosed this in
• 29:24
  Speaker 4: the first two minutes of the episode. She claims that
• 29:27
  Speaker 4: she was being seen by this very renowned doctor, a
• 29:30
  Speaker 4: hematologist from Duke University that took on her case out
• 29:34
  Speaker 4: of the blue, called her and said, I wanted to
• 29:36
  Speaker 4: like help you with the medical issue you had two
• 29:39
  Speaker 4: years ago.
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: And it takes off from there.
• 29:43
  Speaker 4: And very early on, Nancy called the doctor and said,
• 29:47
  Speaker 4: have you ever heard of this woman?
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: Are you treating her? Blah, blah, blah.
• 29:49
  Speaker 4: And the doctor said, I've never heard of her. I
• 29:51
  Speaker 4: looked through all of my records. I've never treated her.
• 29:55
  Speaker 4: So this entire blog on This entire story is completely
• 30:00
  Speaker 4: made up.
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: And what she did is created her own world, Amy.
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: So she's got the doctor.
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: We call it the Lexiverse.
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: The Lexiverse. That's right.
• 30:09
  Speaker 4: She's created the nurses, a therapist, a driver who comes
• 30:12
  Speaker 4: and picks her up.
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: She's engineering this entire world.
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: And she goes places. Are these real names?
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: Are she using real names? I mean, the doctor is real.
• 30:20
  Speaker 4: The doctor is a real doctor who is stunned. when
• 30:24
  Speaker 4: he gets a call and he's like, I don't know
• 30:26
  Speaker 4: who this person is. I've, my nurses have searched every
• 30:29
  Speaker 4: record in my database.
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: I sent him pictures.
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: There were supposed to be pictures of him that she
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: had like from the side and the back. And I said,
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: the pictures, I said, let's, do you mind? And he's like, no, sure.
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: Send me whatever you got. Let's, let's see. So yeah,
• 30:43
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's elaborate.
• 30:45
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: How do you maintain a lie like this for so long?
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: That has got to be exhausting.
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: It's the big question.
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: It's the big question.
• 30:57
  Speaker 4: She not only created doctors, nurses, drivers, she also infiltrated,
• 31:03
  Speaker 4: which is out on this week's episode, episode three, so
• 31:05
  Speaker 4: hurry up and catch up. She infiltrated real cancer groups online.
• 31:11
  Speaker 4: She found the Instagram page for real cancer groups and
• 31:15
  Speaker 4: then Photoshopped her face into their images and put them
• 31:20
  Speaker 4: on her own page and passed them off. And then
• 31:23
  Speaker 4: what she did is she killed them off.
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: One by one.
• 31:25
  Speaker 4: So one by one, she kills them off. She's like, oh,
• 31:28
  Speaker 4: my good friend, Annalise died today.
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: Blah, blah, blah. Please say a prayer. This is the
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: second friend I've lost.
• 31:35
  Speaker 4: Yeah, second friend she's lost in six days. The other
• 31:38
  Speaker 4: girl died as well. They're both from the same cancer group.
• 31:40
  Speaker 4: So we, Nancy and I interviewed, Nancy tracked them down
• 31:44
  Speaker 4: and we got.
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: Them on Zoom.
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: Still alive.
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: Still alive.
• 31:49
  Speaker 4: And we broke the news. Nancy had already broken the
• 31:51
  Speaker 4: news that their images had been stolen, but we showed
• 31:54
  Speaker 4: them their obituaries online in somebody else's feed.
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh.
• 32:01
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: She would change names, you know, so finding all these
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: people and sourcing everything was took three years. So you
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: can imagine, but yeah. So that was her MO. It
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: was taking what she could offline and, And then repurposing
• 32:17
  Speaker 3: as needed as herself. She stole tons of photos. Exactly.
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: Tons of photos of a couple of particular cancer fighters
• 32:26
  Speaker 3: as herself. And she'd crop the heads out, you know, like, yeah.
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: Did she have like with Scamanda, did she have all
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: the fake hospital records and things like that?
• 32:38
  Speaker 3: Oh, no. Well.
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: Quite the opposite, actually.
• 32:42
  Speaker 4: Oh, really?
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: But this is past, what do you call it? Episode three.
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: Oh, okay.
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: She goes to a huge gala in New York City
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: because she is given an award.
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: Oh, they always get awards. They always get awards.
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: The whole thing documented.
• 33:03
  Speaker 4: Really?
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: In all her glory.
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: So this took three years, but this leads up until
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: like right now. I mean, are things still unfolding for
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: you with this right now?
• 33:14
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 33:17
  Speaker 4: Every day, I mean, even this morning, Nancy texted and
• 33:20
  Speaker 4: she's like, somebody just came forward with another piece of information.
• 33:23
  Speaker 4: We're getting this two and three times a day because
• 33:26
  Speaker 4: everybody's coming out of the woodwork.
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: And this just dropped a week ago.
• 33:29
  Speaker 4: There are three episodes up right now. And we are
• 33:32
  Speaker 4: getting flooded with people that are like, I did this
• 33:35
  Speaker 4: with her.
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: I went to school with her. This is what happened here.
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's emerging still.
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: So does that.
• 33:41
  Speaker 3: Mean that you're going to keep- Yeah. And with law enforcement?
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: Oh, it's with them.
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, they are well aware. I let people know three
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: years ago once I knew what was going on because
• 33:51
  Speaker 3: the GoFundMe, which we cover in episodes one and two,
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: was almost $ 200, 000. Oh, geez. And not to mention restaurants,
• 33:58
  Speaker 3: the Red Robin restaurant.
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: Red Robin.
• 34:05
  Speaker 4: They did two fundraisers because she worked at Red Robin.
• 34:07
  Speaker 4: So they raised $ 20, 000.
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: Oh my God.
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: Are you kidding me?
• 34:13
  Speaker 4: And we know that a lot of donations were made
• 34:16
  Speaker 4: offline because people didn't want to pay the GoFundMe fees.
• 34:19
  Speaker 4: And so they wrote her checks directly. She also had
• 34:22
  Speaker 4: a network of other people in the community who she'd
• 34:25
  Speaker 4: befriended that were making monthly contributions or, you know.
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: uh, regular contributions.
• 34:33
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: Oh my God. I love Red Robin's gourmet burger, but
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: that's beside the point. I am astounded. So, okay.
• 34:41
  Speaker 3: Oh, here's a fun, a fun fact too with Red Robin.
• 34:44
  Speaker 3: Since you love Red Robin. Um, when all this happened
• 34:48
  Speaker 3: and we were contacting, they were like, look, the same
• 34:50
  Speaker 3: thing that Scamanda did, right? The, the restaurant, all the
• 34:53
  Speaker 3: waiters and waitresses, the tips went to the, went to
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: her and then whatever. And this was, and this was
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: in Maryland. Um, and I went, they told me the
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: locations of the restaurants and I went, Whoa, wait, hang on.
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: So my nephew worked there. And so I, yep. I
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: called my nephew and I said, Hey, do you remember
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: like years ago? Like, was there a young lady that
• 35:17
  Speaker 3: worked with you that had kids? Cause he goes, Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 35:19
  Speaker 3: We raised like over 10,000 in our, in our restaurant alone.
• 35:22
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah.
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: And then he paused and he said, Oh shit. If
• 35:26
  Speaker 3: you're calling, I cannot believe the chances. And I said,
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: what are the chances? I said, quiet. You cannot tell
• 35:35
  Speaker 3: anyone in the community. Like I'm just starting. Right.
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: Like you have a gag order right now, your family,
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: but you, you've been gagged. Okay. That is unbelievable. What
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: are the chances? Wait, where are you from?
• 35:45
  Speaker 3: What are the chances? No, I'm from New Jersey, but
• 35:48
  Speaker 3: my sister moved to Maryland. After college and raised her
• 35:52
  Speaker 3: family there.
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: I got to ask, wait, what year would this Red
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: Robin fundraiser, when would that have taken place? Do you
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: know off the.
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: Top of your head? She did two. 2014 and 2016.
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: Okay. I got to ask, well, I mean, a lot
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: of my listeners, I got a lot of East Coasters
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: and I have several that are from Maryland. And so,
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: and Emily, who is one of my co-hosts is from
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: Maryland herself. So we're going to have to dig into
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: this and see if anyone is familiar. So has Lexi,
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: when did it drop in her lap that you guys
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: were onto her?
• 36:27
  Speaker 3: Do you know? August 25. Yeah.
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: How did that go? Well, you probably don't want to
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: say that's in the podcast, right?
• 36:34
  Speaker 4: Like.
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: We've been in communication with a representative. That's all we
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: can say.
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: Very interesting. Okay. And the representative is Jen Shah. No,
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: I'm kidding.
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 36:46
  Speaker 4: And this, by the way, this podcast doesn't follow our
• 36:49
  Speaker 4: typical format.
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: This is a script. I mean, this is a long form.
• 36:52
  Speaker 4: Podcast like Scamanda where we're weaving in interviews and, you know,
• 36:56
  Speaker 4: sound from events and that type of thing. And there
• 37:01
  Speaker 4: are actresses playing parts, you know, for the blog. So
• 37:05
  Speaker 4: you're getting all parts of it. It's a little departure
• 37:08
  Speaker 4: for us from the slippery.
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: Oh, okay. I didn't realize that. So the format is
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: like Scamanda.
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: Oh, that's exciting.
• 37:15
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: How many episodes will it be or do you not
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: know because it continues on?
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: We don't know yet. It's at least seven.
• 37:23
  Speaker 4: Wow. We know that so far, but we don't know
• 37:26
  Speaker 4: where it's going to end.
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: And then what we do each week is we do this,
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: like a debrief, where it's us talking and then we
• 37:32
  Speaker 3: bring on a guest from the previous episode. Oh, really? Yeah,
• 37:37
  Speaker 3: we thought we'd have some fun. Why not? That's a
• 37:38
  Speaker 3: good idea. Do whatever we want.
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: Especially if they're willing to talk, you know?
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: So the first, our first debrief is our tipsters. They
• 37:46
  Speaker 3: came on and talked about, yeah. Why, the how, like,
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: you know, and, and how it all went down. And
• 37:53
  Speaker 3: then we dig a little deeper because we have so
• 37:55
  Speaker 3: much information. We can't, you know, when you're telling a story.
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 37:59
  Speaker 4: We're telling 30% of this story. That's all we could do.
• 38:03
  Speaker 4: I mean, if we put all of it out there,
• 38:05
  Speaker 4: it would just be too, it'd be 30 or 40
• 38:08
  Speaker 4: parts easily. Yeah. But I mean, that's how detailed this,
• 38:12
  Speaker 4: this woman was. It was, Think about it every single
• 38:15
  Speaker 4: day for 10 years that you're posting something or going.
• 38:20
  Speaker 4: And when I'm saying that she's going somewhere, she's going
• 38:23
  Speaker 4: to NIH or Johns Hopkins for treatment and she's gone
• 38:28
  Speaker 4: for two days and then comes home and she's so
• 38:31
  Speaker 4: weak that she can't walk and people have to bring
• 38:34
  Speaker 4: her food. And then the next day she's at a
• 38:36
  Speaker 4: gala or at a conference in Chicago and she's.
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: Got to go over there. This was her whole life,
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: this sham.
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: Is she married? Does she have a family? Does she
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: have kids or anything like that?
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: Episode four is out next week.
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: Oh, my God. All we can tell you right now
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: in this show, she has a boyfriend, a new boyfriend.
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 38:59
  Speaker 3: We're doing it chronologically. So her stuff all started in 2012.
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: Oh, that's when Jen Shah started. You guys, 2012 was
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: a tough year. I mean, a great year for scammers.
• 39:12
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: Depends on how you look at it.
• 39:15
  Speaker 3: Scamanda too. So yeah, it started, she started feeling ill
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: in 2012. 2014 is where we pick it up because
• 39:23
  Speaker 3: that's when she officially started her, foray into blogging and
• 39:29
  Speaker 3: really putting it out there.
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: And that's really the trick. In 2012, she really was sick.
• 39:34
  Speaker 4: She had something called hyper eosinophilia, which is something with
• 39:38
  Speaker 4: your white blood cells, but it can be triggered by
• 39:40
  Speaker 4: an allergy or it can be chronic. It's usually associated
• 39:43
  Speaker 4: with tapeworm or some sort of allergic reaction. Oh. So
• 39:47
  Speaker 4: she was hospitalized and her family was with her in
• 39:50
  Speaker 4: the hospital in 2012. But then after that, she just
• 39:54
  Speaker 4: kind of kept, she told them she kept going. She
• 39:56
  Speaker 4: wasn't feeling well and she was continuing to go and
• 39:59
  Speaker 4: seek treatment. Granted, when she was sick in 2012, she
• 40:04
  Speaker 4: did end up in Johns Hopkins for a week and
• 40:06
  Speaker 4: then they discharged her. They actually suggested that it was
• 40:10
  Speaker 4: in her head and she insisted it wasn't. And so-
• 40:15
  Speaker 4: That's where the story starts. So then when she starts
• 40:17
  Speaker 4: the blog in 2014, and by the way, we haven't
• 40:20
  Speaker 4: brought this up, she is a religious girl.
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: She's brought up in the Catholic Church at St. John the.
• 40:28
  Speaker 4: Evangelist in Montgomery County, Maryland. So her family had this
• 40:35
  Speaker 4: great name, right? Everybody trusted them. And so when she
• 40:39
  Speaker 4: starts saying she's sick and they believe them, They're her advocates, basically.
• 40:43
  Speaker 4: The whole community rallies around her because it's the Thomas family.
• 40:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, her blog is Romans 828. Is that right? Yeah,
• 40:51
  Speaker 3: Romans 828. Everything's uber religious.
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: Oh, I didn't know that. Oh, that's interesting.
• 40:58
  Speaker 3: It's a key prop for these type of things. I
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: didn't just put it that way. But it's because people
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: there are so helpful, right? They're good people. That's right.
• 41:06
  Speaker 3: They're people that want to help.
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they're the perfect victims for situations like this. You're right.
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: Right. Yeah, because scammers don't choose dumb people. They choose
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: good people.
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's sad. And then they give, you know, good
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: people a bad name because they're taken advantage of, you know,
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: and they look, you know, this is like a broad
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: question in general about scheming, scamming. Do you find that
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: there are themes or differences between the two genders? Like
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: are men more prone to do like this type of
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: scam and women are more prone to do this type
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: of scam? Have you noticed any kind of categorical way
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: to see them both as different or are they just
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: pretty much like have at it? It's anyone's game.
• 41:56
  Speaker 3: For me, a lot of the young, because Lexi is
• 42:00
  Speaker 3: a young, white woman. She started this at 20 years old.
• 42:06
  Speaker 3: And same with Scamanda was in, you know, young white.
• 42:08
  Speaker 3: There's a, I keep saying they need to study young
• 42:13
  Speaker 3: white women, usually privileged, you know, growing up.
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: Narcissistic.
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Telling a lot of white lies from when they're young.
• 42:22
  Speaker 3: But anyway, that seems to be something. That's just me
• 42:26
  Speaker 3: noticing this from a lot of stories over the years. Wow.
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: Do you think that also, you know, piggybacking on that,
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: that the world of being an influencer and social media
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: has a huge part in this?
• 42:40
  Speaker 4: Well, yeah.
• 42:41
  Speaker 3: I mean, it makes it easy. I hate to say it. Absolutely.
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 42:45
  Speaker 4: And I would say the other trend is there are more,
• 42:48
  Speaker 4: we've run into more male scammers than we do female scammers.
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: It's a little more rare to come across a female scammer. Really?
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: But when you do, it's extreme.
• 42:57
  Speaker 4: We covered a case a couple of weeks ago that
• 43:00
  Speaker 4: was in the news a year ago, year and a
• 43:03
  Speaker 4: half ago. The pharmacist, the wife who was a pharmacist
• 43:06
  Speaker 4: who then became an entrepreneur and ended up running their
• 43:09
  Speaker 4: finances into the ground. She was going to be caught
• 43:12
  Speaker 4: and the husband was onto her as well. And she
• 43:16
  Speaker 4: poisoned him with insulin. She killed her own husband because
• 43:19
  Speaker 4: he was onto her Ponzi scheme.
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: Crazy story. So when you do run into a female scammer,
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: it is usually- Look out. Yeah. Watch out. Exactly.
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, we like to, we go big or
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: we go home.
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: Right, Nancy? Am I right, girl?
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 43:35
  Speaker 3: Listen, what's the joke of someone who always says, you know,
• 43:41
  Speaker 3: you say something about the husband or the boyfriend, they're like,
• 43:43
  Speaker 3: let me get my shovel, you know? Like it takes
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: it to that. The friends will, will rise. Yeah.
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: That's what makes it so, I think why it's so
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: interesting when we do get these stories about women with
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: these unbelievable scams, because it is so mind blowing. You're like, wow,
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: they really, really went for it. I mean, talk about
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: like showing up for work every day.
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: They are committed.
• 44:08
  Speaker 4: And I would say most of the comments we're getting
• 44:09
  Speaker 4: are from females and that new Lexi that are hell
• 44:13
  Speaker 4: bent on getting their information out there.
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: They're probably hell bent on getting their money back. You know,
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: I mean, like that's really tough when you, people don't have,
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: especially like when you're involved in a church or something
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: like that, people are really giving, you know, they're like
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: you said, they're, they're vulnerable people. They're good people. So
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: they're just going to give. So it's not like they
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: can necessarily, everybody can afford it. So it'd be nice
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: to have the money back in your pocket.
• 44:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think a lot of folks realize with that, like, oh,
• 44:41
  Speaker 3: I don't know if that's ever going to happen. Like,
• 44:42
  Speaker 3: you know, Scamanda's got restitution to pay. You can, you know,
• 44:45
  Speaker 3: pay $ 100 a month, $ 25 a month and meet the requirement.
• 44:49
  Speaker 3: So I think for them, it's just the betrayal of
• 44:52
  Speaker 3: it all, you know, from what we're hearing. I mean,
• 44:55
  Speaker 3: these families, there were divides in multiple families in this story,
• 45:00
  Speaker 3: like wedges drawn because, you know, you're Team Lexi or
• 45:04
  Speaker 3: you're not because she's dying. So, you know, there's... a
• 45:08
  Speaker 3: lot for them to deal with and go through. And
• 45:12
  Speaker 3: I think they just want justice or accountability. It seems
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: to be the big want in all of this.
• 45:19
  Speaker 4: I think the big question that we keep facing in
• 45:21
  Speaker 4: this as well is, was the family in on it?
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: And we know that the sisters were not in on it.
• 45:27
  Speaker 4: One of them was responsible for helping her and her
• 45:31
  Speaker 4: husband wrote the GoFundMe notes and organized the GoFundMe accounts.
• 45:36
  Speaker 4: And so people are throwing shade that direction when you
• 45:39
  Speaker 4: tell you they didn't know they were fooled the parents
• 45:43
  Speaker 4: we have no idea because it is odd that you
• 45:46
  Speaker 4: go to 10 years of cancer treatments and mom on
• 45:51
  Speaker 4: your parents insurance On your parents' insurance for six of
• 45:54
  Speaker 4: those years.
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: I'll throw that in.
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: And mom or dad doesn't ever go with you. I mean,
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: that's a little odd to me. Oh, God.
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: Well, that's probably why she wanted attention. Her parents don't
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: seem to care much.
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: That's a great point.
• 46:06
  Speaker 3: That's a good point. No, this was on her insistence
• 46:08
  Speaker 3: that she wanted to be a normal girl fighting this
• 46:13
  Speaker 3: and doing it. And be independent. She was going to
• 46:15
  Speaker 3: be strong and be independent. I see.
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 46:18
  Speaker 3: And- The setup.
• 46:20
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: That's convenient.
• 46:21
  Speaker 3: The setup is important. You know, she, this was how
• 46:25
  Speaker 3: she was taking it on. And people can understand both
• 46:27
  Speaker 3: sides of that, right? You want.
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: Absolutely.
• 46:29
  Speaker 3: Your, your daughter to be independent and strong and tell
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: me what you need. Bring me in when necessary.
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: Right. How many siblings does she have? Like you said, sisters.
• 46:39
  Speaker 4: Two.
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: Okay. And they're sisters?
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 46:42
  Speaker 3: Three sisters. She's the baby. Oh, okay.
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: Well, you know. I'm the baby too. So, I mean, look,
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: I got my own podcast. At least I'm not running
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: a scam.
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: But, you know, right?
• 46:53
  Speaker 3: Look at us.
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: We have a little bit in common. But, you know,
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: this story is so fascinating to me. I think probably
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: because it's still ongoing now that I know that. And
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: that people are just coming out of the woodwork. That's
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: the part that I love about when you hear about
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: this stuff. Typically, like, you know, when listening to Scamanda,
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: it was like, and then we heard from this person
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: and then this person came forward and then this person.
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: And it's like, oh, my gosh, it just unravels and unravels.
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: And it's just like this clown car of people who
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: were fell victim to these scams. And I cannot wait
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: to listen to this. I am so excited. So can
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: you tell everybody where they can find your podcast? where
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: they can find all the good stuff, your website, everything.
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: And please give them your tip line because, you know,
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: that's always open.
• 47:44
  Speaker 3: Well, you can always get us. I get this wrong
• 47:46
  Speaker 3: all the time. We're the worst at promoting ourselves.
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: I know. I know. I think I have it memorized.
• 47:53
  Speaker 4: You can find the lexicon at The Slippery wherever you
• 47:57
  Speaker 4: get the podcast. I think you can search the lexicon
• 48:01
  Speaker 4: as well, but search The Slippery.
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: And we're on Apple and Spotify and YouTube, of course.
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: It's only audio. The main podcast is only audio.
• 48:13
  Speaker 4: The debriefs where we show you pictures of Lexi and
• 48:16
  Speaker 4: like her.
• 48:17
  Speaker 3: Every Thursday.
• 48:19
  Speaker 4: Some of her evidence or our evidence is video every Thursday.
• 48:24
  Speaker 4: So it is worth going to YouTube for that to
• 48:27
  Speaker 4: see exactly what the scammer looks like and how she's
• 48:29
  Speaker 4: pulling it off.
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: Is it called the slippery on your YouTube?
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah. The Slippery. Our YouTube is The Slippery.
• 48:37
  Speaker 4: And then we're across social media, The Slippery Pod at Instagram, Facebook,
• 48:41
  Speaker 4: and TikTok. And then our website is theslippery.com and everything
• 48:47
  Speaker 4: is there.
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: Very impressive. I noticed that you guys are charting. a
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: lot in true crime category on Apple podcasts.
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: All right. Yeah.
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: It's just very exciting. I mean, it's, it's so cool.
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: Cause you, you guys are the real deal. You know
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: what you're doing and that's what's so exciting about it.
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: So when, uh, when we got connected a while back,
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: I was just so thrilled that you guys are willing
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: to come on this podcast and I hope that you
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: will come back again and again.
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: Of course.
• 49:15
  Speaker 4: What's been big things to you, like, being on podcasts
• 49:19
  Speaker 4: that are successful like this only help us.
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: That's for sure.
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: Oh my, I'm so glad. Yeah, I love to promote
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: anybody who's doing anything great. And you guys are, you
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: are the greats at what you do. And so thank
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: you for that. And thank you for bringing justice to
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: all of us.
• 49:36
  Speaker 3: We try.
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: All right. Well, Nancy Muscatello, Scott Eldridge, thank you so
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: much for joining me today on Drama Day.
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: Drama darling.
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: Drama darling.
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: Drama darling.