Latest / Breaking Down Addiction / #24 Will Taylor — Prove Them Wrong: Addiction, Recovery, & Finding Purpose

Transcript

#24 Will Taylor — Prove Them Wrong: Addiction, Recovery, & Finding Purpose · Breaking Down Addiction

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I'm gonna do, these damn steps?
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: Then I'm gonna come back and tell you that they don't work.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that was my mindset.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to a new episode of Breaking Down Addiction, a podcast brought to you by National Addiction Specialist.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: I am your host, Johnny Phillip, and we have a very special guest today, Mr.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: Will Taylor.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, thank you.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: Great to be here.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for joining us.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: This is your your second time in the office.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's a little different than before.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I like to start all these podcast episodes out with the same question.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: And that is if you were sitting across from yourself in active addiction, and let's let's take it to like the lowest point in your life, the darkest spot, what would you say to that person?
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: That's a great question.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: Uh honestly, I I kind of even reflect back there, and it's kind of the what I was asking myself really in that moment is like, what are you doing with your life?
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know?
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um how did I get here?
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, realistically, uh everybody's upbringing looks different, but I had a pretty decent upbringing, you know.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, uh at least to me anyway, you know.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, was provided for, you know, uh cared for, was loved, and uh somehow got caught in the grips, got off track, you know.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: Same thing with me, like a very wholesome childhood, involved in sports, great parents, very supported, but got into partying in high school and then playing music and it's really took it off the rails.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like kind of like it it does this disease does not discriminate for one.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um where let's take us to like what do you think was your your lowest point during let's call it your bottom?
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, yeah.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so for me, I mean I I know everybody's bottom looks different.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um for me, had been involved in let's just say illicit pharmaceutical sales, right?
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um using in things, um, had just got to where uh really taking advantage of people, really uh, you know, we hear the saying you can't get high on your own supply and things when you're in that kind of uh activity.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: But of course I didn't listen to that and was full-blown on that.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um had really burnt all the bridges uh with my family, you know.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um and dad, and then some.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: Well, beyond your parents.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so uh I have I'm the youngest of four with three older sisters.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I say normal childhood, but that was pretty traumatic in itself, right?
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: I always like to uh give them credit, but then you know, my upbringing, um in a sense, when I look at others, when I compare myself, is like, you know, it wasn't so much G.I.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: Joes and Ninja Turtles, it was Barbie dolls and cabbage patch kids, you know.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, my father walked out on the family um when I was six years old.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so now a single mom, you know, um still provided for us, but she had to pick up a second job.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of my upbringing was placed upon my sisters, my oldest sister, uh Jennifer, which is a nine year age gap, you know, making sure I'm off the bus, had something to eat, um, homework.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's a lot of responsibility for a young woman.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, yeah.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: Especially, you know, her nine-year younger brother, maybe something that she didn't want to do sometimes.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: She had other things that she wanted to probably do.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: So good on her.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: Your mom's just trying to support the family with two jobs.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and for a long time, you know, I would always try to use that as justification, right?
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but looking back at it, you know, my mom did everything that she had at her disposal to provide for us.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: And she did.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, my mom's a great mom, you know.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: I never went without.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, she taught me some valuable lessons that I didn't always agree with, you know, like uh this one profound moment.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: It was uh 13th birthday.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I wanted some Air Maxes, man, some shoes.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I'd been mowing grass and things, and she took me birthday shopping, and I don't know, I think they were like 120 bucks, you know, at that time.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: And she was like, Well, you know, she was gonna buy me some shoes.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Well, look, you just pay half and I'll use my money.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: And she's like, No, you're not wasting your money on that, you know.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: And two things come out of that, right?
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: Not necessarily the lesson of, hey, uh, just don't go blowing your money, but also the lesson that I remember myself is like, I'm never gonna be told to no again with something, you know, because at that age, you know, it was kind of important to have some nice shoes.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: You didn't want to be made fun of at school and things like that, you know.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I just remember like, man, I'm never gonna.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: So that really kind of, I guess, was motivation more down the wrong path.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: I was already involved with some mischief to say, you know.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: Is this when you started using?
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: No, my first use was actually at age 11, going back to my older sister, right?
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: Not putting blame on her either, but being uh, of course, now uh she was a senior in high school, about to graduate, and mom working a second job.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: So from a rural small town, um Lincoln County, Tennessee, nothing to do.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: So she was gonna have a house party, you know, she did.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm that annoying little 11-year-old brother running around there.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: So someone had the bright idea well, hey, well, let's give him some alcohol, you know.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: He can become the entertainment, and uh then hopefully he'll pass out and they can go on about their business.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: And uh that was my first experience uh with alcohol.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and something that that night, you know, I always say like it was a connection, you know.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, in and out of treatment and working with professionals and things, they were like, oh, that's the connection to the alcohol.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not necessarily here to debate that, right?
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: But the connection that I remember at 11 years old was, man, I'm cool.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a part of something.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: But not just a part of something.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a part of something.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: A group appears so much older than I am, right?
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: You know, a nine years age group, and here I am hanging out drinking with these guys.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: You're doing something very adult, yeah.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: Adult, older.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: I know at that age, like 11, 12, 13, you want to be older and make bigger decisions and hang out with older people and also be cool with the older kids.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, man, I'm a part of something, right?
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: So that kind of that that started the path, right?
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then from there, kind of just one thing, you know, kind of led to another and to another.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I always hung on to that connection, you know.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: What did you start using after alcohol and what did what did that look like?
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: Was it high school where usage got bad?
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: And like how did it elevate?
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so it really just kind of started to be like, okay, now Pier's my age, right?
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: Uh you know, we would go on like camping trips, but it's like, hey, let's get us some booze now, right?
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_00: And even as I progressed on through high school, still a rural town, nothing to do.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like, we get out of school, high school, all of us that could drive, or we would load up in somebody's car and we would do what we called the block, right?
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: We would go around McDonald's parking lot and then drive about four or five miles to the square, loop it, and come back.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then usually about dusk, you know, we would go hit what we called a back road at that time, you know, that ultimately usually landed at um some bridge up under a bridge, kind of having a bonfire and kind of a little party.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: You got bored of the block.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's it.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: And then it was like, well, you know, who can get us party favors, right?
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we all has an association, a connection with this group of peers.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: So then I had this illusion of power and prestige, and I'd already learned the manipulation as well.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, I can get you some alcohol, but you're gonna have to buy me mine, you know.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: And then things just progressed there to marijuana, you know, trying that out.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, psychedelics were pretty big in that area as well.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, experimented with those um and then just kind of fast forwarded on, you know.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: Same thing with my smaller area of Wisconsin.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: It was like alcohol and weed, and then it turned into shrooms, acid, yeah, and some other things.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: Molly, before it was Molly ecstasy, yeah.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: That's I mean, that's basically how it is, you know.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think looking back, it's like, man, we really have to do a better job at providing things just for young adults to engage in that are safe, healthy, you know, and also just beneficial.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: To keep them engaged too.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: Because obviously you would work the bl you would ride the block, but then you would do something else after that.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: And probably when you when they would take that turn into the next event that night, that's when like the more bad things started happening, right?
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: Boredom, curiosity.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: So it was like alcohol, weed, some psychedelics.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: When did this all become a problem?
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so the problem early on was more of just the lifestyle, right?
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: Having that connection, which at the time I thought was beneficial because you know, compounding that with the manipulation of others and kind of getting into the selling of it uh and things, right?
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: Sales and distribution.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and then I was making money, so I didn't have to worry about mom paying half of my shoes anymore, right?
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: I could go get what I wanted to.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I progressed on through high school.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: I was a pretty decent athlete, but also that lifestyle was pulling at me hard, right?
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I graduated high school.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I was just like, you know, forget any kind of formal education.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: This is I'll go get a job and already had a job technically, right?
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: Selling.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: And then you're you're providing yourself with more drugs and alcohol too, right?
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I thought, you know, kind of this was I have arrived moment, right?
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it was everything looks good, you know, on the front end, the hindsight's 2020, but it was um, you know, really was avoiding any kind of legal consequences at that time early on, you know.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there was a lot of family dysfunction uh prior leading up to that, you know.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: How long did it take for legal consequences to start happening?
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so um realistically, I think probably started having some encounters around 22.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I'm a music fan, you know.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: I I was big into jam bands and things, so kind of going on tour and things like that.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, who'd you tour with fish, widespread?
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, widespread.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, yeah.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: I was I'm a jam grass fan too, so you know.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but in those environments too, uh were somewhat unhealthy for a young adult, especially the crowd I was with.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: And uh darker drugs are starting to enter the scene in the mid to late nineties and the jaban scene too.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, like in the dead scene, bad drugs were their 80s and 90s.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: But it seems like more worse drugs were starting to enter the fish widespread scene, like mid-late nineties.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: That's funny you say that, because like I listened to fish, you know, because I I I like fish as well, but I always told myself, well, that's where the that's where the hard drugs are.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just staying over here with the panic, you know.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's that's funny.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: You're playing it safe.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, playing it safe.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I was justifying myself, you know.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: But um went out with a buddy to uh uh it was a three-day run in Riley and uh got hit up in the lot of all things by undercover.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: And uh ended up there.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, they confiscated everything and they wrote us a citation.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: They didn't necessarily carry us in, but the citations there were a lot different than Tennessee, you know.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: I had to appear back in court.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so this was out of state.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, out of state, yeah.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: And uh man, it was just a lot to get over with.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: Well, finally I just said, you know what, I need to hire a lawyer from there to kind of take care of it.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: And uh the lifestyle was somewhat rewarding, so I had some money to do that.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um and lo and behold, this lawyer was able to finagle things to uh pay some fines and then get me a sentence back here of 90 and 90.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: And all I had to do was send slips in.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm like, wow.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember pulling up to my first AA meeting at like 22, 23, and I'm like, man, this ain't for me, you know.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I forged all 90 sheets and you're you're phoning it in at this point.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: You're faking the 90 and 90.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yep.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: So for listeners out there, uh 90 90, it means you do 90 meetings at A A N A H A C A, wherever.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: 90 and 90 days.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: Some people will go two to two and one day.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: Right twice as long as you're doing 90 and 90.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: So you're faking it.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: Did did you get out of those charges then for faking the 90 and 90?
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: Got out of them.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, uh, got my sheets, forged signatures, you know, addresses where the meetings were, submitted them in.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, ended up paying a little bit more money to get that expunged, right?
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: And uh went on, you know.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: Uh continued doing doing your BS, huh?
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, continued, didn't even slow up, right?
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um so things just kept on progressing, and really it got to a point to where I'll just be honest, uh, you know, the financial aspect of that lifestyle was still rewarding than any other job, right?
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I say that, you know, I I had a great opportunity working at um my uncle owned a motorcycle shop, you know, and uh sent me to Motorcycle Mechanics Institute to get certified to work on um motorcycles, um paid me well, but it wasn't compared to what I could make in just the amount of time.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: Plus, I thought, well, I'm enjoying this, right?
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um how did I job at Nissan, right?
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: Making great money.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: Uh just really wasn't.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: The lifestyle kept bringing you back in.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: Pulling me back in.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: So you you got caught again, I'm guessing.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: Well I know a little bit of your story.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: I ended up uh really just getting careless, man.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: And and uh but it all was result back to my just addiction, you know.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: Uh you know, using and not necessarily just living in the distribution lifestyle.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying I would have got away with it forever, but um started clouding my judgment, you know.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um one thing that really was profound through, you know, working with a therapist and things is she told me, she said, Will you ever thought you suffered from like trauma?
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, Yeah, you if you live the lifestyle that lives, you know, it's full of trauma.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: And she's like, No, I don't think you're really understanding what I'm telling you.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: And she's like, Have you ever thought that you suffer from what's maybe described as like a little T trauma, something that's not as traumatic?
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: And because you've suffered from that and you've never resolved it, more traumatic things don't bother you.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember going back and thinking on that and kind of processing it, and then my next session with her, she's we picked up the conversation and she was like, you know, how do you think the absence of your father, what what role did that play on you?
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: You know?
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, I ain't never really thought about it, you know.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: And she's like, I want you to think about like abandonment and neglect, right?
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: So then I started to kind of playing the tape back through, and you know, my mom, still a great mother.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: I like to say that she overcompensated because also my childhood, there was always an agenda, right?
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: And what I mean by that is like my childhood wasn't necessarily like I'm gonna sit around on the weekends in my Scooby-Doo underwear eating cereal and watching cartoons.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: It was like, hey, you're gonna go do this, you're gonna do this.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I've pretty much done every extracurricular activity that an individual could do in that area, um, to where the way I describe it today is I developed a resentment, which led me to basically running away from home at 13.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: Umed up going to my basketball coach's house, uh, who today I realized was a protective factor in my life at that time.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's a good thing.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, he didn't necessarily condone my behavior, but he was just always there, right?
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: He kind of knew the family dynamics and what was going on.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: And anyway.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: How long were you away from home at that point?
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: I stayed gone for about a week and uh ended up getting a hold of my father to come in and getting custody swapped over.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, my father was uh out-of-state contractor, like a federal government contractor.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: So he was always uh out of state or even out of the nation doing things.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: So uh what that actually looked like was me going to live with my grandmother, who was 72 years old at the time.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, which I I loved her dearly, you know, uh, probably for some of the right reasons and the wrong reasons.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: She had two rules, you know, uh that I eat breakfast at home and I eat dinner at home.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: She took me to get hardship license and gave me an 87 S10 pickup truck, and here I am at 13 now cruising the roads, still hanging out with that older crowd, right?
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so that kind of it's a lot of responsibility for a 13-year-old.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: I know small towns are definitely different in that aspect.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but still nothing good comes out of that, right?
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, I mean, and that's just I think that kind of also paints a picture of today's time, though, too.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like how many grandparents are actually raising grandkids because maybe an overdose or incarceration.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, my grandmother, I don't put blame on her either.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: She didn't know any better, right?
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, she had no um no clue what was going on.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, some of my memorable moments come from that, right?
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, she was a music connoisseur, she loved Elvis.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I remember like watching VHS tapes of Elvis concerts and things, and I'm like, man.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's those are core memories.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, core memories.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, man, that's a hero.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: I need to, you know.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: I want to rewind a little bit though.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you're you're talking about this this little tea drama, and it's from the abandonment of your father.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so you're not realizing this till later in life, like way later in life.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like 30 years, you know.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: I completely went through the same thing.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: So my dad abandoned our family as well, but later, later on in life, like in my twenties, but he was always one foot in, one foot out, anyways, and didn't really give me a good model on how to treat women, on how he treated my mother.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so I created a lot of bad habits, you know, from from high school on until you know the five, ten years ago, I started realizing that a lot of these bad habits I have are from my my father and the way I was raised from him.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't realize how much of an effect an effect that has on someone, even in their late 30s.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, it it crept its way in and uh long term recovery.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a very hard thing to deal with.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: My dad also passed in twenty eighteen, so I didn't fully get a chance to let all those resentments go when he was alive.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like I'm still I I put a lot of it away and worked on a lot of it, but there's still some things lingering.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: And here I am about to turn 47 in a few weeks.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's just like it proves to you how important it is to have a safe, healthy foundation at home.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: You and I are fathers.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: And we both have little girls.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just like my priority number one in life before anything else, even behind, you know, paying attention to my marriage is making sure my little girl is safe and has everything that she needs.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: And then secondly, that's our marriage to look at that and make sure that's healthy and safe too.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: Because without that, Carter won't have a good life.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: And what she needs.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: Man, I identify so much with that, you know, uh carrying on a lot of those traits, you know.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: I remember, you know, what we call the void, right?
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: Having the void inside and not at that time in active addiction, not knowing what it was, always trying to fill it.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I'm a very high, you know, high energetic energy person.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I stay on the go, I thrive on social connection.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I always have.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I remember like reflecting back on times that, you know, here I am thinking I'm Pablo Escobar, you know, and had all these party favors.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I wouldn't, I would throw parties, right?
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: Get everybody there, but finding out, man, I'm just miserable.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: So then I just run everybody off, act a jerk, you know.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: I ought to find myself lonely.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: And then it's like, you know what?
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: I need somebody to enjoy all this stuff with.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I refer to it today as uh I took a hostage at that time.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: And what I mean by that is still having that unresolved trauma, right?
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: Not knowing how to truly care for another human being to be in a relationship, but yet I thought that was the solution, you know.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: And also have a healthy relationship.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: A healthy, yeah, yeah.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: And uh the sad reality of that is she had a little girl too, you know.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: So I didn't just take one hostage, I took two, right?
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: And uh that relationship uh it lasted for a while until she didn't necessarily condone the behavior either, though, that I was doing.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: She just said, you know, you might need to be careful, you know.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we don't want, you know, her daughter going to school talking about things.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I'm like, what is she talking about?
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I just said, you know what, you gotta go, right?
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: You're oblivious.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: And uh you're so caught up in your own shit.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: On my own, yes, absolutely.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like uh, so I'm just like, you gotta go, you know.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: You so uh ended up moving her, moving her out and things, and uh just still doing whatever, you know.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: And this this reflects back on some legal consequences that happened early on and uh still living that lifestyle till one Saturday night, me and uh acquaintance and some other friends were out there just kind of partying, you know, and I started seeing all these blue lights coming.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh where I lived at at the time was on the riverbank, but it had a longer driveway.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I'm like, man, what's going on?
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: So we of course go inside.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: And well, what actually happened prior to that is she showed up at the house and she was like livid, right?
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: Just like, how could you?
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, what are you talking about?
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: We're done, we've been separated, we're done, you know.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: And anyway, she's like, I remember this vaguely.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: She looked me in the eyes and told me I was gonna pay for it.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: And then that's when the blue light started coming down the driveway, and she had called the task force, and uh they they showed up at the house, and uh I was just like shh, man, they're gonna have to have a warrant to come in.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not going to the door.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: The other people there, they were freaking out, just crying, so I had to lock them in a closet just to like keep things hushed, like nobody's home.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, just the insane thought process.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: And uh long story short, they stayed till what I presume was shift change, probably like 6, 6:30, and they left.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, they showed up at probably like 3:30, 4 o'clock in the morning.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: But then they left.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: So of course everybody at the house left, but I had a lot of contraband inside, so I started like putting it out the window and going, throwing it in the river and things.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, long story short, they come back three other times, and the last time they had a warrant, uh still thinking that I could, you know, maneuver out, I'd reached out to an attorney by this point and kind of explained the situation.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: And he ended up calling him and he's like, You're either gonna press charges or we're gonna sue you for harassment.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I never heard anything else from it.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: Now, to feed the insanity part, about two weeks later, I move the girl and her daughter back in the house thinking that we're back as a family.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: But I've polished up on my techniques, right?
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna be uh eight to five distribution person, and then the rest of the time I'm gonna be the father figure I need to be.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I think everybody out there can understand how well that works, right?
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: How long did it take for things to go south then at that point?
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe like two to three work, two to three weeks, and like I was back to just the same thing.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: But she ended up staying with me for a couple more years until uh fast-forwarded it on.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: I woke up and she had a sheriff's deputy there.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: And uh basically at that point she was just like, You gotta leave this time, you know.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_01: Did you have contraband on you at that time?
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I had some, but she didn't necessarily call on that stuff.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I think she probably, uh, you know, I don't know.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: I've tried to make amends on it, but um I I can only assume that she probably thought that she was gonna be guilty because at that time, you know, uh she was a cosigner, you know, to the to everything.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: So the the big league legal implications really still haven't happened yet in your story.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: I've still been able to skate over them one way or another, right?
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um So how does it all crumble?
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: Just got got to the end, getting really careless.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, let's go back to the jam bands and things, you know.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of things come out of that, right?
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: Meeting connections.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: Again, I've always been a person that's been um thriving on that social connections, but also uh Oh wait, you you mentioned the under the undercover cop.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: So something else happens from there that we we didn't quite no, but just continuing on through jam bands, I get uh connected up with a couple guys, uh younger guys that were, I mean, trust fund kids is where they were.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: And this was uh trustafarians trustaf.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: And this was uh mid-90s, you know, early to mid-90s, and uh the pharmaceuticals really were coming on the scene, you know.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: And uh so you start slanging those.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_00: These cats are in South Florida.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: Well, they have all of them at the show, and I've never really been big on pharmaceuticals.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: I would take a little bit, but it just really wasn't my thing, you know.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: And uh and then I met this co-worker that wanted to exchange some things out, and uh I was like, man, why are people going crazy for these?
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_00: I can't keep them, you know.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I decided, you know what, I'm gonna take one.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: And then uh Oxycotton, and I remember just like, man, that's it, right?
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: I here's my high I've arrived number two.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I met these kids that uh man, the the crazy insanity thing of how situations used to be, they owned a strip mall, and they had hired this physician in the middle of a pain clinic, right?
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_00: And you could go there and it was referral only.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um so you could go to a like a walk-in clinic, get a referral.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I got back pain.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we don't treat back pain.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: Well, could you write me a referral to this clinic here?
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: So they would do that.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you'd go there and you'd call this this group and they'd schedule you like three months out.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: And then uh, or they had a plan called the VIP plan.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: You could bring$1,500 cash and they'd see you the next day.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: So you go in there, basically, hey, I got back pain, things like that.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: They'd write you a script, but it wouldn't be very heavy.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: But what they would do that first time would write a doctor's order to go get an MRI next door that they owned as well.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: Talking about shadiness.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: So this MRI place, the MRI machine was in an 18-wheeler trailer, still backed up to this facility.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: You'd go in there and get an MRI legitimately, right?
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_00: But they would tweak it a little bit.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, your L3's out, whatever, you know.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_00: So then when you went back next month, you got your MRI and you would get a hefty script.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: And then on the other side of that, they owned a pharmacy.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_00: So it was a one-stop shop.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: And you're paying them for everything.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: That I'd met through the jam band, right?
• 31:45
  unknown: Oh, wow.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: So then started just kind of like, man, this is, you know, there's not any really smell in pharmaceuticals, you know, they're easy to move around.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: So still the lifestyle full-fledged got a hold of me.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, you know what, man, I would uh, and this is sad to say, but this is the reality is I would go and prey on individuals, you know, individuals that maybe were addicted to like cracking things and be like, look, I'll get you uh, you know, I'll get you a rock.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna go with me for 48 hours, and I'd get a van.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: I actually had a like a drugie buggy.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_00: I bought one of those, believe it or not.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I started driving people down a van load at a time, three times a week to South Florida.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: Holy cow, dude.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_00: And then uh, so the first really I call it the scare, right?
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_00: Nothing scared me so far, but uh the scare is I got caught in Georgia, pulled over.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, golly, you know, here we go.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_00: I got all these pills.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, because they fill them again at the pharmacy next door.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I mean, we were bringing back, you know, thousands.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_00: Mason jars is what I would put them in, you know.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: And anyway, they they confiscated them.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: They found your jars.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_00: Didn't write no ticket or nothing though.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: Just straight took them.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: Straight took them.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm like, dang, did it stop me?
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_00: No, I just changed my route up, right?
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: So they kept on doing that, and um anyway, that's where I started getting into trouble though, is through uh prescription drugs, trafficking, and things like that.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_00: You know, these guys, I I call them cool, right?
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um they uh I was complaining about having to drive, you know, basically 24 hours, 20 hours down there.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: So they're like, look, man, they called me one day and they're like, we opened up in Opalaca.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_00: Six-hour trip one way, you know.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: Cut you cut your travel down, you know, and did that for a while and just yeah.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: So did you get busted and was there some prison sentence or prison time there?
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's lingering in my mind.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I've spent a total of four years uh between county jail and prison, right?
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: Uh the biggest thing is uh from the trafficking, right?
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: The last offense that kind of got me there at the at the end of the break is uh I had got caught with some firearms that uh, you know, I've always been, you know, a guy.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_00: I like guns, you know.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_00: Uh this guy knew he was like, man, I'm going through a divorce, I need to get rid of these guns, or I'm gonna have to sell them all, blah, blah, blah.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember asking, like, man, are they stolen?
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: No, they're not stolen.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um ended up picking up these guns, and I'm like, man, they're not stolen.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just had a couple in the trunk, and anyway, that they said I California rolled through a traffic stop, right?
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_00: Didn't like them come to the complete stop.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: So they hit the lock, hit the lights, wanted to search the car.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they found the guns, took the serial numbers, uh, let me go.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: About a week later, I got a call from investigators like, Mr.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: Taylor, I understand you were involved in this uh traffic incident or citation.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, yes, sir.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm also here to report that three out of the four guns that you had have been reported stolen.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I don't want any trouble.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_00: Y'all can have the guns, whatever, you know.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, well, we just want you to come talk to us, right?
• 35:44
  unknown: Right.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_00: So here's the dilemma.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but anyway, I made the decision to go talk to him.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: And uh anyway, in Tennessee, it's not receiving stolen property.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_00: If you have them, you're committed to the crime.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um so, and out of the three guns, it had been a total of seven, right, that had been stolen.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: Although I only had three, they charged me with all of them.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_00: Uh of course, uh firearms are aggravated charges, uh, and each gun is a felony itself.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_01: So you're looking at seven felonies here.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, eight.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: Seven with the guns and then aggravated on top of that, right?
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: Agra aggravated burglary.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_01: So you do time in prison over this?
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_00: How long altogether for the just the guns and a little over two years, two and a half, yeah.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: About two and a half years.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_00: And ended up getting released out on that.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: And what's crazy is um I straightened up for a little bit, went and got a job with the Postal Service.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: It was great.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but do you start using again, selling again?
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, started started just using things, you know.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I hadn't been to treatment before, didn't know anything, you know, still dealing with this broken soul, right?
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um so it wasn't long before I was right back at it.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: And uh at this time, I uh, you know, I tried to mend some relationships with the family and things like that.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um but yeah, kind of just getting real careless.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_00: Really started using heavy at this time, kind of just not even caring, you know.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um and uh I ended up going and and uh stealing some guns from my my brother-in-law this time, right?
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_00: You legit stole guns, legit stole them and sold them off, right?
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_00: And uh anyway, uh a guy that I was running around with got mad because I had screwed him over on some stuff, and uh he ends up ratting it out.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_00: And uh so here I am, like, golly man, and do I am I going back to prison and what's this look like?
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_00: So uh I kind of just had the epiphany, you know, of I'm a drug addict, you know.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_01: So that's the turning point right here.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_00: Close, right?
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_00: I had the idea because I didn't have at this time I'd gotten just real careless.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like I said, using it picked up.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_00: I was getting, wasn't really I was in distribution, but I was using more at this time than I was actually making.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_00: So it was like I didn't have any funds for a lawyer, and it was just like I had the idea, I'm gonna tell the judge I'm a drug addict, right?
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_00: And uh working with the investigators and things through that, they gave me the opportunity to get treatment.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_00: And um Gashley gave me two weeks, and I was just like, dang, is that easy, right?
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_01: Not to get not to get treatment, but it's like you had to get treatment for two weeks, or you sat for two weeks and then had to go to the house.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_00: No, they gave me two weeks to find treatment for me.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, on my own, and I'm like, dad, is that all I gotta do is tell y'all I want treatment and y'all gonna let me go?
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_00: It was kind of like I always say it's like playing the game of Monopoly where you hit that corner, you know, past go and like, where's my 200 bucks?
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, so I just use that.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of like, man, I'm I'm just out here wilding out still, you know.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_00: And uh this is where my sister, oldest sister, comes back in, which she's a social worker by trade and things, and just they kind of knew the dysfunction that was going on.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, arrest and offenses.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, in our small town, it's sad to say, but um arrests and offenses are either on the front page of the paper or the back page.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_00: So, and you survey that county, they're gonna tell you the first thing they look at on the weekly newspaper is who got arrested.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_00: So, uh anyway, um she's like, you know, what's going on?
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_00: You need help and things like that.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_00: And she cons me into getting in the car to go get something to eat, and anyway, she drives me to the local hospital, and um my sister's sexual preferences are easy to attack, let's just word it that way, right?
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, uh and I find out what she's doing, and I just cast her to the lakes of fire right there in the hospital parking lot.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm you know, I'm becoming this almighty Christian now.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_01: You you feel you feel attacked because she's trying to take you in somewhere and help you.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, yeah.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_01: This was your F you back.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_00: And this is where, like, you know, the God of my understanding kind of shows me he has a sense of humor.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_00: So anyway, uh the hospital there, it's it's not unique, but it was seemed to be unique at the time.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's between like two big like rock bluffs where they had to blast out and the hospital sets back.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, I ain't going to the hospital, you know.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just I'm better than that, right?
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I go and sit up on this uh bluff for a little while, and I'm just like, that's where I had the thought, like, man, what are you doing with your life?
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know, here you are again, thinking you're Pablo Escobar.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_00: I couldn't remember a single number to call to somebody come get me.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_00: Then it's like, who would I call, right?
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I had screwed everybody over.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I decided I'm gonna walk in the hospital and say, you know what, I'm a drug addict.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna kill myself if I don't get help.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_00: You know, those were the magic words, right?
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so do they put you in a 72-hour hold right off a trip?
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_00: So uh that that hospital was kind of a smaller hospital, no psychiatric hold, you know, they don't treat any kind of psychiatric uh mental health, anything there.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_00: But because I said I was gonna kill myself, I couldn't just sign myself out, right?
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_00: So this is where God was laughing at me.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_00: The only number I could remember was my sister that I just cussed out and cast the lakes of fire.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_00: So I picked the phone up and I have to I learned a valuable lesson there too.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if you gotta eat crow, you eat it while it's warm, Johnny.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, all right.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_00: It goes down a little easier.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, yeah.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_00: But I call my sister, she comes and gets me with the you know, one understanding that we're going to you know to check in at detox.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_00: So um she did that and ended up having to go to to Alabama to to get detox there.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_00: That's that started the path of recovery.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_01: And that was the the the last time you saw treatment.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_00: So that was just detox there.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_00: I still had this legal consequence there, right?
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_00: Where they already gave me time to get it.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_00: I had exhausted the two weeks, but I checked in finally at detox.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so anyway, from there it was court ordered to go into treatment.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I left the detox place in Alabama and went into treatment in Tennessee.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_00: Uh still with that mindset of like, man, I just need a certificate, right?
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_01: You you go to residential Tennessee.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_01: How long are you in treatment and like what what happened next here with this the sentencing?
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so this is uh a lot of unheard of stuff, honestly, right?
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_00: Uh in today's treatment world.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_00: I ended up doing about 134 days of treatment, what would be considered inpatient.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_01: Uh of res?
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, pretty much.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like with or like PHP with housing and things.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, stepped down.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_00: But that long in their care, right?
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_00: But it the judge, I went into treatment, sent certificates and things, uh, still not really wanting treatment.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_00: I just didn't want to go to prison again, right?
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I was smoking cigarettes at the time, snuck a cell phone in.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_00: They're going through my belongings, and they they find the uh cell phone.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_00: So where I was doing the intake, they also did discharging too.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_00: So this guy that was discharging saw all the cigarettes I had and saw that they got my cell phone.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_00: And he was like, Well, look, uh, I saw they got your phone.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_00: I've got one.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, uh I'll trade you a carton of cigarettes for one.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm like, sure, you know, whatever.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I got my I got a cell phone.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: Phone and treatment, right?
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_00: And still just not bought in on any concept of treatment, just wanting to avoid legal consequences.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_00: And first person I called was this long-lasting relationship.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, I'm in treatment now.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna be the father I need to be.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we're gonna we're gonna work things out.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_00: And second cause I wanted to connect the dots and collect royalties while I was in treatment.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I'm saying?
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_00: Still in the distribution game.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_00: Long story short, uh, that lasted for three days.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_00: I got kind of paranoid, you know.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_00: I was sobering up, wasn't using anything.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_00: And uh it was kind of like a college dorm style room.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I had a roommate, then we split a bathroom with the other side, and I was like, man, this I know this guy's probably wondering why I'm in the bathroom so long, right?
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_00: So finally I just like, look, I got a phone, I put it in the ceiling.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_00: If you want to use it, just don't tell anybody.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_00: You can use it what you want to, right?
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_00: Just make sure it stays charged.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um three days into treatment.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_00: Uh this treatment center had a intercom system over their campus.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_00: So if my name gets blurted out over the intercom, you know, come to the council campus.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_00: You don't want to hear that.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I go in there and they're like, where's it at?
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, what are you talking about?
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_00: Where's what?
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and they're like, Where's the phone?
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I'm like, what phone?
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_00: You know.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_00: I go back to the room and I'm looking, I look in the ceiling and it's gone.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm looking for my roommate, and I'm like, man, where's this at?
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_00: You know?
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_00: Finally I find him.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, man, I got caught with the phone.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_00: I was trying to get some money, and I let somebody use it, and I'm like, oh man, here we go.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, he did, right?
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and uh so I had to go back and I'm like, y'all got the phone, you know, just kind of confessed it.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_00: But I knew I needed that completion certificate.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I decided I'm gonna do two things at that point.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna be honest about everything, anything.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_00: And anybody that knows me knows that I still struggle with that, right?
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm more of a blunt person, taking the truth and wrapping it in enough grace.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm still a you know, progress, not perfection person.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm gonna put forth effort into the things that were asked of me, right?
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_00: And uh that's how I pursued treatment.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um went on through treatment.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_00: Little did I know that my counselor was sending progress reports back to the court.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_00: I had to go back for review hearings on six weeks, right?
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I go back for the first review hearing and uh had to set through the whole docket.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_00: And anyway, they didn't they didn't call my name on the docket, and I'm just like, what?
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I mean, because the treatment where I was in Lincoln County is about a two-hour drive and one way, right?
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just like, man.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so after session, the docket called, the the judge, the DA, and the investigator called me in and was like, We got progress reports on you.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_00: The judge said I didn't think you were gonna stick with treatment.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_00: They said, um, this is what we're willing to offer you.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_00: Plead guilty to a misdemeanor theft.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_00: Uh they were able to um give back, they were able to receive all the guns back that I had taken uh from my brother-in-law, and they were gonna put me on three years paper, right?
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I already knew.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, man, where do I sign?
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, well, it's contingent that you complete another six months of treatment, but to make sure we're gonna have you back in six weeks.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, all right.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_01: So not a bad plea deal.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_00: No, not a bad, right?
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just like, yeah, I was ready to run it.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um so uh go back to treatment and just kind of really uh I go back to my counselor, honestly, and I was just like, you know, Miss Hannah, I said, I just want to thank you.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_00: And she she told me this, you know, because I've never really been a religious or spiritual person at all, really, you know, and I was just like, I want to thank you.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_00: And she's like, you know, don't thank me, thank God.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm just like, nah, I want to thank you, you know.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_00: And anyway, proceed with treatment.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_00: Again, it was ugly, right?
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I mean, if I thought this group was trash, I said it was trash, right?
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm still uh just kind of I'm putting forth the effort into it, right?
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_01: But you're being direct will, yeah, yeah.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_00: And uh lo and behold, I go back on a review hearing, and um, I think this was actually the third review hearing, though.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_00: I go back, progress notes, and the judge is like, Mr.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_00: Taylor, he said, uh I can't believe you're you're staying compliant, right, in treatment and stuff.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_00: He said, This is what I'm gonna do.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_00: He said, I'm gonna drop your three years probation down to one year if you go back for another six months.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_00: It worked, it was working in my favor, right?
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I mean I wouldn't have to pay probation fees, I wouldn't have to pay drug screens, treatment center was sending those back, so I'm like, let's go.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_00: I'll do it, right?
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_01: You're like running a third time, right?
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, and really I would say that's probably what it took, you know.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, I'm roughly like close to 10 months almost, you know.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_00: I started like kind of getting into the mindset of, you know what, I'm gonna give this stuff a try, honestly, and see what happens.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_00: Really, uh, I'll be if I'm gonna be truthful though, Johnny.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, you know what, I'm gonna do these damn steps, then I'm gonna come back and tell you that they don't work, you know.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_00: That was my mindset.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm gonna do these and I'm gonna prove that's BS.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_00: And you know what?
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_00: I ain't never had to go back.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_01: True story.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_01: Hey man, if if somebody listening to this can level with that at all.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, I would love for someone to hear that out there.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_01: Uh that was not my attitude towards the steps.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I love that's that's a fresh perspective because you're still doing them and you got it.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you know, I I don't want to say I got it, but I mean I've got the tools today, right?
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I mean, like the steps got me to a point to where, you know, I want to go sit down with a therapist now, right?
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_00: Enjoy those opportunities just to, I call it, get to regurgitate, right?
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um but it got me to the point to where I was bought in a little bit to recovery.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_00: I also think that like I was witnessing like fruits of it, right?
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_00: Just doing it, honestly.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_00: My mindset was like, dude, I'm doing this, I'm getting positive consequences instead of negative consequences.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_01: Gifts of recovery.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_00: Gifts of recovery, yeah.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_00: And uh it all started because I was like, I'm gonna prove you guys wrong, you know.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_00: So it don't matter how you start, as long as you start.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_00: I it's safe to say that I think you got it now.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_00: I hope so, you know.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um you never know though.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_00: So um let me get back on this story because it gets kind of unique.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's it's it's interesting.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_00: So uh I finished up treatment um and then it's like, man, what am I gonna do?
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'd been here so long, like I knew all the staff, Staffany Mew.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_00: So they kind of started letting me get, I don't want to call special privileges, but like they were like, we'll go lead this group here or do this here, you know, kind of giving me responsibilities.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_01: And well, there's they're seeing you as a leader.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think I mean obviously leadership opportunities.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_00: So uh lo and behold, they uh I complete treatment and the site director calls me in and he's like, Um, what are you gonna do?
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm just like, I don't know, go back home.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, well, look, I want to talk to you.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_00: He said, I want to offer you a job.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I wasn't necessarily even truly hearing him out because I'm like, man, this, you know, I see kind of what security techs, you know, do.
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_00: I hear about what they make because they all complain, right?
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so I'm just like, I like, man, I it ain't for me.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_00: So anyway, I go back to the house I was standing in and telling everybody, and they're like, dude, you're stupid.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_00: What are you gonna do?
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you don't have any job.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I remember that lesson about eating crow, you gotta eat it while it's warm.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I go back and I I talked to the site director, and I was like, you know what?
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, I'll commit to one year, but I can't guarantee anything after that.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_00: You'll be a tech for one year.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's what I told him.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_00: And he said, Well, you know what?
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_00: I was thinking too.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, I want to bring you in as a case manager.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm like, all right, you know more gifts of recovery.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_00: So that was uh that was how I kind of got really acclimated into the field of recovery that way.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_00: Plus, my first true job in recovery, like outside of anything, not just working in the field, but post-treatment, you know.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um and it's important that I share this, I feel, because I I think this is too, we we kind of let it go unnoticed, but having people, whatever they look like through your life, I had individuals invest in me, right?
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I always say this like investment's not always like financial.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like people investing like guidance, mentorship.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I come in with a high school diploma and a bunch of junkie pride, I'll be honest, right?
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_00: But people investing in me, I was able to get a formal education free, right?
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I got started on a LADAC track, right?
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, long story short, I progressed up at that treatment center to assistant site director.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_00: I was a clinical counselor, you know.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it was a pretty fresh job, you know, that really the fruits of recovery, sobriety, and you're learning all the ropes of treatment.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_01: I I started out as a tech as well at a very low pay rate.
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_01: I was 41, making less than I did, you know, when I was 30.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you sometimes you have to do these things because you're like you're seeing the bigger picture and what can happen and what can come of it.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_01: So you and I, it sounds like we don't have any regrets.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_01: No, learning the ropes from the ground up.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because there was a lot of valuable lessons, lessons that I really didn't think I needed to learn, like financial literacy, right?
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like the lifestyle that I had come from was like always having cash, right?
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, and it's it's crazy to think about, but that lifestyle was somewhat I thought rewarding that I had a mentality that I had had to go blow a hundred bucks, like on whatever.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like I would find myself going to Walmart just buying$100 worth of DVDs or CDs at the time.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because I can.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I didn't know like any kind of savings or anything, you know.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_00: And um so having that entry-level job, right, not only was building a resume for me, not even showing me the skill sets, but teaching me like how to really budget, you know, how to live off minimum.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's an important life lesson for the they should teach that in high school.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_01: I agree.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that we're we're getting a lot of missed opportunities in life.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like they don't teach you how to do your taxes.
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_01: There's so many things that can be done in high school for some other further building blocks.
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for sharing.
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_01: But you start, so I just want to fast forward just a little bit.
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um so you're turning, you know, you work in treatment, you you take all the steps to work all these different jobs.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_01: Your life is turned into purpose now, and you start recovery as the new high eventually.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so when you started Recovery as the New High, by the way, great name.
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_01: Always have left it, and you have great merch, by the way.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody check it out out there.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um what was missing that made you want to start recovery as the new high?
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what what you thought, what did you think that you could bring to the table?
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so that's uh looking historically at like my what I call my professional career, right?
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_00: I worked in treatment, worked as a clinical counselor, saw the ups and downs of that.
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_00: I was given an opportunity to to start contractual work with the state government.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_00: I did that for a little over a decade.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um you know, there's pros and cons of of working in public servant work, right?
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_00: Uh especially at that level.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_00: Uh let's just say a lot of the bureaucracy, right?
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_00: Not only me, but um a lot of my fellow colleagues, it kind of drove us out.
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I didn't brand Recovery's New High.
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's a whole unique story that um honestly uh Alan Burnett, uh actually the founder of it.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um Alan's great dude.
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_00: He uh he branded it, and he was actually the one that provided the resources for me early on that I didn't know to my sister, right?
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_00: To get me into the detox, to get me into treatment.
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_00: And then he came and you know, he always visited me in treatment.
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_00: So and then he had these shirts like Recovery's New High.
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, man, that's catchy.
• 57:35
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I like that I could get behind that, right?
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_00: You know.
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but long story short, and then that's also how I got involved with governmental work.
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, because you also do work for the state.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_00: So we uh we worked together with that, right?
• 57:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um and uh anyway, we kind of were both having the same thoughts, right?
• 57:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, man, this is it's time to do something different.
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_00: You were aligned, yeah, essentially, in that so we ventured out and just said, you know what, we uh we're gonna take it and make it a nonprofit.
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_00: And our focus is not treatment, treatment's great.
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'll always advocate for treatment, but our focus is more on the engagement.
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_00: What happens after treatment?
• 58:16
  SPEAKER_00: How can we keep individuals engaged in the concept of recovery post-treatment, right?
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_00: You know, still trying to use the old 12-step uh methodology of like attraction uh and more than promotion, but you know, it's also safe to say too that maybe not all individuals have the opportunity of treatment, right?
• 58:43
  SPEAKER_01: As harsh as that may sound, it's there's a lot of people underserved in the underserved, absolutely.
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a lot that we were seeing fall through the gaps, you know.
• 58:53
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like we want to be kind of a bridge, a segue into uh recovery for them, right?
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_00: So that was our focus.
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, really the work we had been doing at the state was so, you know, 100,000 foot view that it was hard to really see it being impactful.
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_00: So we also decided that we wanted to take things at a micro level, like county level up, and really build in what we define as the recovery ecosystem model, putting things in place, whether that's transportation, uh, housing, uh opportunities, second chance employment, um, you know, what does healthcare even look like in some areas, right?
• 59:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um and you guys help with all of this.
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we help align that with local, you know, elected officials and things.
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_00: And uh because of our tenure with you know government for so long, we somewhat know funding streams to help kind of align things, right?
• 59:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um and that's really our our sole purpose there.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, through the course, uh short course, I should say, is uh we've been able to expand into a lot of different other areas uh with housing certification for recovery housing and uh offering like a formal on-demand CEU professional learning track to help build workforce development for individuals entry-level in, right?
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_01: These are all important things.
• 1:00:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_01: And for and correct me if I'm wrong, but you have been part too of these free Narcan distribution systems throughout the United States.
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_00: So uh one thing, you know, with the state and things, uh I I work on a contract uh with the Williamson Prevention Coalition to do naloxone distribution.
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_00: But through that work, we also know that there was a lot of barriers to that too.
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_00: So, of course, through the nonprofit aspect, we were able to go and leverage funds and grant opportunities to provide uh free naloxone vending machines and things uh to eliminate any kind of deterrent, you know, uh, for individuals to do that, to receive that medication.
• 1:01:10
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, yeah, nationwide it's over the counter.
• 1:01:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it costs money at Walgreens and whatnot.
• 1:01:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's still about 60, 70 bucks.
• 1:01:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, I just remember in that state, like, if I had 60 bucks, am I gonna go get higher, or am I gonna go buy an alox on?
• 1:01:27
  SPEAKER_00: You know?
• 1:01:29
  SPEAKER_01: I have a curiosity, a curious question here.
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, do you know if those machines that you've implemented, putting in, have they saved any lives?
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_00: Did you get any data or any so we have had some refer, you know, confirmed like lives saved.
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, of course, reporting on that end is all voluntary, so some it's hard to really get that.
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_01: Some people don't say anything.
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:01:54
  SPEAKER_00: Some people don't say anything, right?
• 1:01:55
  SPEAKER_00: Because there's a lot of fear out there still, right?
• 1:01:58
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of uh uncertainty and stigma.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know, a lot of people aren't truly educated on like what's called the Tennessee Treatment Act that says, you know, hey, you can provide first aid.
• 1:02:09
  SPEAKER_00: You can even call 911, even if narcotics are here on the scene without fear of uh, you know, arrests and things.
• 1:02:16
  SPEAKER_00: But a lot of individuals, I mean, I remember when I was out there, we call it the old dump and roll method, right?
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_00: Somebody's potentially overdosing, getting sick, we're pulling up to the emergency room, pushing them out and driving off because we don't want to be arrested, right?
• 1:02:29
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 1:02:29
  SPEAKER_00: And there's still a lot of that mentality out there, unfortunately, just because yeah, Tennessee does have laws in place, but they're so fresh that there's not a lot of knowledge of those laws.
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_01: Congratulations for everything that you and Alan have going on.
• 1:02:46
  SPEAKER_00: We just try to try to be a segue, man.
• 1:02:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's it.
• 1:02:49
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you're doing great work.
• 1:02:51
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate that.
• 1:02:52
  SPEAKER_01: Much respect, and I'm glad that we get to collaborate in May together.
• 1:02:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
• 1:02:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'm excited about that as well, you know.
• 1:02:59
  SPEAKER_00: So excited.
• 1:03:00
  SPEAKER_00: That's something that uh we we haven't done before, really, you know, and I mean looking back with the knowledge of everything too.
• 1:03:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um I always like to say this.
• 1:03:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna back up a little bit.
• 1:03:15
  SPEAKER_00: You know, working with the state or even in the clinical field, like it's easy to kind of I call get intimidated, but also be intimidating to others.
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, one thing me and Alan said when we launched Recovery's New Highs, we're just Will and Alan.
• 1:03:32
  SPEAKER_00: We're not like Will, BS, L A D A C, anything like that.
• 1:03:38
  SPEAKER_00: We don't need these acronyms, you know.
• 1:03:40
  SPEAKER_00: We're just we're just normal people just like you.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um initials are fun though.
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they're fun to have, and it also shows that you're legit.
• 1:03:48
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:03:49
  SPEAKER_00: It does.
• 1:03:50
  SPEAKER_01: And you know what you're doing.
• 1:03:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean I don't want to discredit it, but just saying, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:03:54
  SPEAKER_00: But also in the concept of like to the event, you know, partnering uh with TSAM uh in the medical profession, right?
• 1:04:05
  SPEAKER_00: One of the unique opportunities I got to have and Alan as well through uh our work is setting down with the Danger Stroke Task Force.
• 1:04:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember this my first meeting, like I'm in a room with the sheriff pretty much from every county, TBI, DEA, FBI.
• 1:04:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm thinking, good Lord, I'm going to jail.
• 1:04:23
  SPEAKER_00: What have I done?
• 1:04:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know, wreckage of the past coming back.
• 1:04:27
  SPEAKER_00: And then all of a sudden, uh special agent Tommy Farmer said, Will, what's your perspective on this?
• 1:04:34
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 1:04:34
  SPEAKER_00: And it really showed us that that lived experience is a valuable concept, right?
• 1:04:40
  SPEAKER_00: Especially in our with our professionals.
• 1:04:42
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 1:04:43
  SPEAKER_00: So where I'm going with all that is even like with our medical professionals, right?
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's important to have someone with that lived experience that can communicate with them, share maybe what not just one individual, but maybe a group of individuals uh are experiencing and kind of relaying that message back.
• 1:05:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm I'm excited about uh the upcoming opportunity and uh yeah, and and the uniqueness of what it'll hold, you know.
• 1:05:14
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 1:05:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm really excited about it.
• 1:05:16
  SPEAKER_01: I we uh we have been going for a little while, so I I don't I didn't want to cut you off, but I just really have one one question in closing here.
• 1:05:26
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 1:05:27
  SPEAKER_01: And that's let's say somebody is stuck in the pattern of addiction or they're getting out of the system, jail, prison, whatever that looks like, treatment.
• 1:05:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um what would you have to say to them today as a little piece of advice?
• 1:05:42
  SPEAKER_00: The biggest thing is I would challenge them.
• 1:05:45
  SPEAKER_00: Challenge them just to stop where they're at, right?
• 1:05:48
  SPEAKER_00: And examine their life, you know, and ask their self.
• 1:05:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I know we're like, how can you truly ask yourself when you're in the grips of addiction or leaving incarceration?
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_01: Much against you.
• 1:06:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:06:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:06:03
  SPEAKER_00: But asking yourself, like, what is it I truly want out of life?
• 1:06:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I know for me when I was sitting on that rock bluff before I walked into the hospital, it was like, what am I doing with my life?
• 1:06:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know?
• 1:06:15
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, trust me, I wasn't egotistical at that time.
• 1:06:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I had a lot of what I referred to as junky pride, but I also knew that we'll deserve better, right?
• 1:06:26
  SPEAKER_01: And you're not contributing anything to the society, your family, your friends, yeah, yourself.
• 1:06:33
  SPEAKER_00: Just that it I deserved a better life, you know?
• 1:06:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:06:37
  SPEAKER_00: And at that point, that gave me enough grit internally to take just a couple steps, and then I was met again with people that was willing to invest.
• 1:06:46
  SPEAKER_00: My sister, right?
• 1:06:48
  SPEAKER_00: The legal system of all people, my counselor, you know, and it just things started unfolding.
• 1:06:54
  SPEAKER_00: It snowballed, snowballed, absolutely.
• 1:06:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think I think that's a good piece of advice in closing is to take a good look at yourself and see really how could I get uncomfortable and make and start with one change, not change everything overnight or in a week, but how can I change one thing to better serve myself and the people around me?
• 1:07:17
  SPEAKER_01: That's it.
• 1:07:18
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's a great piece of advice.
• 1:07:21
  SPEAKER_01: I just appreciate your time to.
• 1:07:22
  SPEAKER_01: No, I do too.
• 1:07:23
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, do you have anything in closing that you want to mention?
• 1:07:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'd just like to say that, you know, although we say that Tennessee's underserved, resources are available, right?
• 1:07:33
  SPEAKER_00: There's people, um national addiction specialists, uh, you know, that are out here ready to help, ready to serve, right?
• 1:07:41
  SPEAKER_00: Whether it's you get connected here or there, I think everybody's willing to help, and it's just number one, having knowledge of that, you know.
• 1:07:50
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:07:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:07:50
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, if we're not a good fit for you, I absolutely have so many resources, and as to you, to help, or the best place, the basic, basically placement for that person to go to to get help.
• 1:08:02
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 1:08:03
  SPEAKER_00: And that's that's that's really what I'd like to close with, because so many times I get hit, you know, people say, you know, it's the lack of resources, lack of resources.
• 1:08:11
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I'll agree half, right?
• 1:08:14
  SPEAKER_00: But the other half is the knowledge of the resources.
• 1:08:17
  SPEAKER_00: We don't look for them until we're in despair.
• 1:08:19
  SPEAKER_00: And in despair, I'm not thinking clearly, right?
• 1:08:22
  SPEAKER_00: So let's let's remain proactive and just what does it look like using what we have, these resources first, right?
• 1:08:29
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 1:08:30
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it kind of takes part of what we said today and kind of flipped it on its head.
• 1:08:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and um, I thank you for sharing that too.
• 1:08:37
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for being a guest today.
• 1:08:38
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for all the work that you do, and congratulations on all the changes you've made.
• 1:08:43
  SPEAKER_01: And it's been a pleasure getting to know you and your wife, Lydia, and Willow's just so cute.
• 1:08:49
  SPEAKER_00: The little mob boss, yeah.
• 1:08:50
  SPEAKER_01: She's so cute, dude.
• 1:08:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's a blessed life, dude.
• 1:08:54
  SPEAKER_01: I love you, man.
• 1:08:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like so, so much.
• 1:08:57
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for coming on.
• 1:08:58
  SPEAKER_01: Please, everybody out there, check out Recovery's the New High.
• 1:09:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, check out the Tennessee State of Health, the Department of Health.
• 1:09:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:09:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:09:08
  SPEAKER_01: And um Will also does regional overdose prevention training.
• 1:09:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so get at Will Taylor online if if you need anybody to come to your work or wherever and come do some training.
• 1:09:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I know that you typically carry naloxone on you.
• 1:09:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but please get at Will, get at myself, like and subscribe the podcast.
• 1:09:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's been a pleasure today.
• 1:09:30
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 1:09:31
  SPEAKER_01: Enjoyed it, thank you.
• 1:09:32
  SPEAKER_01: Appreciate it, brother.