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“By Their Fruit” — How to Spot Bad Christian Advice · Relish: a Christian podcast

• 0:00
  To invite the Holy Spirit to discern in my own heart what maybe ought not be there.
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  Of two places in the scripture, it says that God's time is not like our time.
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  Someone claims to be a Christian and take it that they are, but you can't see
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  the fruits of a Christian in their life should you, also a Christian,
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  be taking advice from them.
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  Relish. Pleasing or zestful flavor. A quantity just sufficient to flavor,
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  to be pleased or gratified by, enjoy.
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  We are hoping that what we bring to your table today might add some spice to your life.
• 0:40
  Welcome back to another episode of Relish. We are continuing our series here
• 0:45
  with Corbin from Hillcrest Academy, my Bible teacher, and of course,
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  Don Patterson, continuing with the questions from the chapel.
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  These are really good questions. Yeah. Really good questions.
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  Should we start it with a warmup? Sure.
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  How does your daily routine involve God? Hmm.
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  Daily routine, everything you do every day.
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  Yeah, well, when we have school, I kind of wake up as late as possible. Really?
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  Yeah. I can't imagine that's still done these days. Eat some breakfast,
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  get ready, and get on my way to school.
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  But in the car, I like to listen to worship music on the way to school.
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  And then we have chapel at school, which is 20 minutes.
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  That I think that's really good for us just to have that in a structured daily routine.
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  Then, yeah, usually I'll do my devotion or some Bible reading or something in the evening.
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  Yeah, I remember you doing that in the evening. Yeah. You're an evening person.
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  On the weekend, if I'm not waking up super early, then I'll do it in the morning,
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  but mostly in the evenings, yeah.
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  For me, it varies by season, and some seasons are a little more structured and
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  inconsistent than others.
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  You must have kids at home. I do not. No.
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  But, like you mentioned music, I find different forms of music to be helpful
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  often, especially in the morning, to just get me calm and rooted in the spirit.
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  In the past, I've found just little resources helpful.
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  Often, I tend towards more contemplative forms of prayer.
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  Any kind of monastic resource is probably going to be something that I find most helpful.
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  Um but um yeah i
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  would be pretty quick to say that that like cultivating it a very consistent
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  interior life has has not come as easy for me as i think it probably does for
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  for some others i have a lot easier time thinking um being in scripture and
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  doing bible study um yeah those kinds of That would be more me.
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  Are a little more, uh, quick for me to, to grab onto.
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  Um, and, and so I'm just always working at, at finding structured ways to,
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  to keep myself also very prayerful.
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  Um, I know one thing I've talked about in chavels at Hillcrest is, um.
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  And at Hillcrest, we kind of call it listening prayer, but trying to invite
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  the Holy Spirit to discern in my own heart what maybe ought not be there if
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  I were to be agreeing with God and understanding who I am.
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  And oftentimes the things I find in there are, it could be as mundane as tiredness,
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  but it could be bitterness. It could be resentment, frustration,
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  anxiety, stress, insecurity, all the things that we deal with.
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  And I just try to invite the Holy Spirit to push that out and then to receive
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  the good, fruit of the Spirit, whatever I know or believe to be true about what God has in store for me.
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  And when I do that, I find that quite powerful.
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  I thank my wife for this. basically when things got slower and the kids weren't
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  running through the house.
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  She reads the Daily Bread for both of us in the morning, and then I read Dr.
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  Jeremiah's devotional in the morning. And then Monday, Wednesday,
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  and Friday, we do a New Testament chapter, read a New Testament chapter.
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  And Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday is Old Testament, and Jeremiah doesn't come out on Sunday.
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  So we do two chapters on Sunday morning, Old Testament and New Testament,
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  just sort of reading through the Bible together and yeah, sort of setting the day apart that way.
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  It takes about, I mean, really only a half hour.
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  But it's amazing how from those devotions, from those chapters,
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  we find connections to our day in those. Yeah.
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  I know when we go on mission trips with NYF, we would, Josh Lundberg would.
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  Usually around the campfire at the end of the night, we'd usually take some
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  quiet time and reflect, either in prayer or just reflect on how the day went
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  or how we responded in certain moments.
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  And I think that's also pretty helpful. It is, exactly.
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  So is time applicable in heaven or does it work outside of our current understanding,
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  it works outside our current understanding we have two places in the scripture
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  it says you know God's time is not like our time uh,
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  So, yeah, it's beyond our comprehension, how God works through time and space.
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  Because our time is a construct we understand.
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  And God works beyond that. Right. I think that's about as simple as I can make that.
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  I don't know that I need to add anything to that. But yeah, scripture doesn't
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  talk a lot about time or super in-depth in philosophical terms about time.
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  But yeah, a day is like a thousand years or a lifetime.
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  And I think we do have a pretty decent sense from scripture that the heavenly
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  realm has its own way of functioning.
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  And time similarly is unique to the temporal plane of the earth.
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  That's true. And yeah, interesting stories that people will tell of divine encounters
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  or experiences maybe in the heavenly realm that also sometimes these folks will
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  reflect on maybe a near-death experience or something like that.
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  And one aspect that commonly comes up is a different experience of being outside time.
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  Right. And that's where we get prophetic.
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  Because if time and space were the same in our world as it is in God's,
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  you couldn't have prophetic.
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  Because how would you know? How would God know? How could God share with you what he knows?
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  And so, yeah, we have time.
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  God doesn't work with time the same way as we do.
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  One of my favorite teachings or sermons that I've heard in the last few years
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  came from Tim Mackey, who is one of the leaders of the Bible Project.
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  But he was giving this message about how these moments when the Bible talks
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  about heaven and earth being united in a garden.
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  And it'll talk about the criminal who's being crucified next to Jesus who says, remember me.
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  And Jesus' response is, today you will be with me in paradise,
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  which is the Greek word for garden.
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  The Garden of Eden is what Jesus has in mind. Today, in a few moments,
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  you'll be with me in the garden.
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  But then Mackie goes through it and notes all these other moments when that
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  garden moment is present on earth as it is in heaven.
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  And there is a sense of, well, when and where is heaven? When and where is paradise?
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  Because we keep seeing it crop up from Genesis.
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  At basically every book of the Bible, so many stories within each book,
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  keep trying to point us to how are we being invited into the eternal now in
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  this moment to be with I am who I am, Yahweh, in this moment.
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  And there is a sense in which it almost feels like to unite with Jesus and.
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  In the garden, on earth as it is in heaven,
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  is in some sense to step out of time as we understand it and to enter into a
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  deeper sense of God's time or whatever that looks like.
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  I found that to be incredibly provocative as someone who teaches the Bible and
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  as a Christian who just tries to live a biblical worldview out.
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  And takes you to Revelation 21, 22, sooner.
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  Okay. I'll have to think about that.
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  Mackie. Okay. I'll have to listen to Mackie. See? Cool.
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  All right. We got kind of a bunch of questions that are the same here.
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  Okay. Hang on. There is kind of just grouped them all together, but
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  the idea is how do you stay grounded in
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  your faith when you're a
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  big aspect of your job is to help others
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  with their faith and so like when times are busy how do you kind of step back
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  and um check things off the list get your job done but also do what's best for
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  you as well well i i i take jesus for an example,
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  so uh,
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  Jesus gets pressed by the crowd and ends up saying, hey, you guys go over there.
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  I'm going on to the mountain.
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  And I sort of see that necessary in a pastor's life to take those times when,
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  yeah, the busyness, the work is good. It needs to be done.
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  Even so, you guys go ahead. I'll catch up later. I'm going to the mountain.
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  And for me, it's my workshop.
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  And i can meet the lord out there and be cranky and he's all right with it and.
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  I i can find renewal and then
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  every once in a while it's nice to take a time away a longer period than just
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  one day and do the kind of retreat that is intentional and focused and maybe
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  on a once personal aspect that I need to find a special renewal in,
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  other than just getting more sleep and resting my spirit.
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  So that's how I see that as important because if I don't do it,
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  I can't lead others to find it.
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  If I don't take care of myself, I can't take care of somebody else.
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  In the airplane, they always say, if you have a child with you,
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  make sure that if the oxygen things come down, you put your mask on first,
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  because if you don't get your mask on first, you won't be able to put it on your child.
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  And that's contrary to our thinking as human beings in a lot of aspects,
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  because we want to take care of the one in our care first.
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  But I think it seems selfish, but my day off is that time of refreshing and
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  renewal and needs to be for me to help somebody else.
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  And I think embedded in that is the biblical pattern of Sabbath from the very first page of the Bible,
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  the seven day rest for blessing, for holiness, and for rest and shalom.
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  And God wants us to experience what it is to be at peace and to be filled up
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  with that sense of completion, of true satisfaction and joy.
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  And I would say for me, I'm still in my role getting three years into teaching at Hillcrest.
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  I'm developing my ability to notice when is the tank getting empty in this role,
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  where i'm yeah teaching and and trying
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  to do ministry um and and some of
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  the markers for me are going to be am i starting to get impatient and am i um
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  yeah is it getting a little less joyful uh in my my day-to-day life uh am i um for me if i'm,
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  Having a harder time getting up in the morning, it's probably because I'm not
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  as feeling as equipped and sustained for what I envision is coming.
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  But then if I can root myself back in that some kind of reorientation,
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  some kind of Sabbath practice, then I find myself getting a little bit more rejuvenated. Yeah.
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  I agree in that getting up in the morning looking forward to the day is a barometer I use as well.
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  I want to feel like I'm ready to go and there's a purpose for what I'm doing. Yeah. Yeah.
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  Very good. Yep. We got it.
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  You can't possibly get through as many questions with two people speaking.
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  Oh, definitely not. Yep.
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  Especially giving good answers well i hope so if you do the short thing yes
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  yeah well this one's well i guess yeah it's a yes or no question but it won't be a yes,
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  you give it to preachers it won't be if someone claims
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  to be a christian and take it that they are but you
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  can't see the fruits of a christian in their life should you also a christian
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  be taking advice from them oh that is no boy that's another i'm so curious what
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  the context of the question like where did i come from you guys must experience
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  that all the time with this show,
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  oh we experience some things all the time yeah i i would say no i i was just
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  in a situation where uh the individual said that they were a prophet and uh
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  they would speak words and uh the words weren't all that bad.
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  They were scripture most of the time, but there was just a nuance that was not quite right.
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  And, uh,
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  Eventually, yeah, things happened, and the person wasn't acting as a Christian.
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  And so I'd say even maybe to the point there was some demonic things going on.
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  And that didn't settle in my spirit, and so I didn't take advice.
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  I sort of held that prophecy out here like, I don't know about this.
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  Right. So I guess I'd say, no, you don't.
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  But the other side of it is, we are allowed then, if they say they're Christian,
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  we're also allowed to live into their life.
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  I'd say, hmm, okay, well, that's interesting. Hmm, well, I find in my life,
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  maybe that doesn't quite sound the same.
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  And you can speak those words and say, so I heard you saying, but did you mean?
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  I've heard people reflect in terms of, that doesn't sound like God to me.
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  Or if I come to you guys looking for counsel or advice, I come to you because
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  I'm looking for the voice of God to be spoken through.
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  And and if if if don
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  says something and i hear rowan say i'm not i don't that
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  doesn't quite sound like like the nuance you mentioned earlier um and then we
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  can kind of keep keep discerning in the spirit and trying to figure out um the
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  the scripture passage that came to mind for me was you'll you'll know them by
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  their fruits and and if we're seeking the voice of god in counsel with,
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  the people around us.
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  We'll know them by their fruits. Are these people whose lives demonstrate to
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  me a life that is the good life, that is a life of joy and peace and keeping with the Spirit?
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  And then also their words. You'll know them by their fruits.
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  Does this sound like who I know God to be?
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  Does this sound like a God of love and joy and peace and graciousness?
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  And if not, yeah, it's probably not going to be the input that is going to lead
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  me to deeper into the good life.
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  Therein lies the purposes of Scripture and the purpose of the community of faith,
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  because counsel, godly counsel, will not contradict Scripture.
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  And godly counsel among those who know Scripture can be tested.
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  Because then, okay, you are good on the book of Job. We found that out in the last episode.
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  You could test what's being said against what you know of the Bible.
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  And we are doing that here.
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  That's part of the attention.
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  Corbin's in Scripture is different than I am in different. And so by doing this,
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  we're able to say, okay, that matches the word of God. I take that a little more seriously.
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  Or that doesn't sound like any scripture that I've ever heard before in my life.
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  And say, I don't know. Yeah.
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  I think also we're, correct me if I'm wrong, but we're not always going to be
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  bearing fruit that a Christian should.
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  Like we are going to sin and there's going to be times when we're not actually going to be.
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  Like if you meet somebody they might catch you at the wrong time and maybe you,
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  sin when you first meet them i don't know but um you kind of have to take more
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  than one interaction true for you but i also have found that sometimes those that can open doors,
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  and and you and so you're met in that moment that i really shouldn't have been
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  doing this but i am doing this and i you know i'm glad you caught i'm glad you're
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  here with me because this is not who i mean to be as a Christian.
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  And so I appreciate you being here. I appreciate you calling me out.
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  And let's walk. Can we walk this way together and sort of be brothers in Christ?
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  And iron sharpens iron. We can sharpen each other's walk with Jesus.
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  So yes, it's not the way we want it to be. We're not always going to be perfect.
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  Uh, I have a, a theologian in my midst that, uh.
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  Challenges the congregation to allow our lives to reveal christ well i just like that,
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  if our i mean it's not gonna be perfect but if we can reveal christ well to
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  others who are watching us that should be a that's a doable goal i think yeah
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  so we aren't perfect yeah man i just really thought you were,
• 20:49
  Rowan. I thought you were really close.
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  Part of what I hear in these last two, last couple of responses,
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  it's like, just the fruit of humility, right?
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  Like, are we humble about our own imperfections, that we are going to fall short?
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  And yet, when I do fall short, or when somebody around me falls short,
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  are we owning that, and turning back, and do we have,
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  humility about our own knowledge too um when i give or receive counsel is a
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  kind of born of of a certain looseness that says oh,
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  i'm sensing this i think this is it this aligns with how i understand scripture
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  but you know i could be wrong i'm not i'm not perfect i'm not perfectly righteous
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  or am i all-knowing like god right um and so yeah i just appreciate that that word.
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  That's good. Very good. Thank you guys, as always, for coming on.
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  I appreciate having you here, Corbin. Yeah, I have too. Well,
• 21:51
  it's been fun. Yeah. Enjoy this. I'll have to do it again. Yeah.
• 21:55
  Thank you guys for joining us. Let us know some feedback and,
• 21:58
  yeah, if you have any questions yourself.
• 22:03
  But thank you. We'd be open to them. Yeah. Yeah.
• 22:07
  Thank you for joining us and we'll see you next time. Lord willing.
• 22:11
  Thank you for joining us for this podcast. Feel free to become part of this
• 22:15
  ministry by sharing with others.
• 22:16
  Our goal is to help each other grow deeper in our understanding of who God is
• 22:20
  and is calling to us in our daily lives.
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  Thank you again for joining us and may God bless your day.