Latest / Balance of Power / Newsom Signs Order Requiring AI Labs Develop ‘Kill Switch’

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Newsom Signs Order Requiring AI Labs Develop ‘Kill Switch’ · Balance of Power

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  Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios.
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  Speaker 6: We look to close out a wild week that has
• 0:28
  Speaker 6: been in the markets. Of course, it was just this
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  Speaker 6: week that we got the Fed decision, which already feels
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  Speaker 6: like a lifetime ago. It was also just this week
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  Speaker 6: that we came into the week with conversations around potentially
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  Speaker 6: the pacing of artificial intelligence. The heads of some of
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  Speaker 6: the biggest companies in the industry all having agreed last weekend,
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  Speaker 6: of course, that that may be necessary.
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  Speaker 7: President Trump.
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  Speaker 6: Fervently disagreeing with that over the course of the week,
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  Speaker 6: especially in light of the anthropic former employee's public resignation,
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  Speaker 6: talking about how it could lead to the extinction of humanity.
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  Speaker 6: President Trump and many of those close to him have
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  Speaker 6: cast this notion as being a hoax, a conspiracy, a
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  Speaker 6: Chinese psyop. Just listen to what President Trump has said
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  Speaker 6: about this throughout the course of the last week and change.
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  Speaker 8: Do you have any concerns about AI, the.
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  Speaker 4: Concerns that if we don't win AI, we're going to
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  Speaker 4: be put in a very bad position.
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  Speaker 8: We're leading China in AI. We can put guardrails.
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  Speaker 3: We can do this and that.
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  Speaker 4: But I think you have a lot of negative forces
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  Speaker 4: in bringing it up that shouldn't be bringing it up.
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  Speaker 9: Well, they're going to bring it up, at least the
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  Speaker 9: issue of AI and security next week, as we mentioned.
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  Speaker 9: When President Trump meets with President Xi, the summit here
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  Speaker 9: in Washington, whether this will resolve in some framework or
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  Speaker 9: AI security agreement has yet to be seen. And it's
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  Speaker 9: unclear exactly what the president's goals are. But it will
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  Speaker 9: be a who's who of AI executives as well, which
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  Speaker 9: is on brand for this White House. Sam Altman will
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  Speaker 9: be there. Jensen Wong. Cristiano Amon from Qualcomm. And it's
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  Speaker 9: being reported today. that Jamie Dimon will be there. I'm
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  Speaker 9: sure that's going to be a much longer list. And
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  Speaker 9: Tyler Kendall will be on hand to cover it all
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  Speaker 9: on the heels of the United Nations General Assembly, where
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  Speaker 9: the president will be as well at the start of
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  Speaker 9: next week. Tyler is our Washington correspondent and joins us
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  Speaker 9: now live from the White House. What are the president's
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  Speaker 9: goals when it comes to President Xi, Tyler? Do we
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  Speaker 9: have a sense of what this agenda will look like?
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  Speaker 10: Well, Joe, at this point, we've heard from a few
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  Speaker 10: analysts that if the U.S. and China are able to
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  Speaker 10: extend the trade truce, keep the calm as it is,
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  Speaker 10: that in and of itself would be an accomplishment of
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  Speaker 10: a goal, as we learn more, including.
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  Speaker 3: Reporting from the Financial Times, that the U.S.
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  Speaker 10: May only be looking to extend that truce by about
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  Speaker 10: six months amid what are heightened concerns with Beijing's loosening
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  Speaker 10: or lack of loosening of export curbs related to critical
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  Speaker 10: and rare earth minerals.
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  Speaker 3: You went through it, though.
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  Speaker 10: There are a few points of contention that will probably
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  Speaker 10: come up, including front and center when it comes to
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  Speaker 10: artificial intelligence, because this White House's main argument against an
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  Speaker 10: industry-wide slowdown has to do with the competition with China.
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  Speaker 10: Just last week, we heard from three national security agencies
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  Speaker 10: allege that Chinese AI firms are essentially stealing American IP
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  Speaker 10: through so-called distillation attacks. But if we put the fuller
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  Speaker 10: picture together, there's so many different things that this White
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  Speaker 10: House has to weigh when approaching this meeting.
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  Speaker 3: With Chinese President Xi Jinping.
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  Speaker 10: Including when it comes to those export curbs, not wanting
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  Speaker 10: to escalate on one front and have China retaliate on another.
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  Speaker 3: It is a balancing act next week.
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  Speaker 10: But the fact that Xi Jinping is expected to be
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  Speaker 10: here does play to the administration's broader goal of keeping
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  Speaker 10: relations with China, at least right now, on balance.
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  Speaker 6: Well, and as you talk about an extension for some
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  Speaker 6: period of time of their trade truce, Tyler Bloomberg is
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  Speaker 6: reporting that we won't see any tariff action until after
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  Speaker 6: this meeting is concluded.
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  Speaker 10: So at this point, it's unclear exactly the reason behind
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  Speaker 10: this potential postponement of what was expected to be higher tariffs,
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  Speaker 10: but it could be perhaps a leverage tool for the
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  Speaker 10: White House as we go into the talks next week.
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  Speaker 3: A few points of context here.
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  Speaker 10: One, these were planned tariffs over allegations of Chinese overcapacity
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  Speaker 10: as the country ran a $ 1. 2 trillion trade surplus next year.
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  Speaker 10: The tariff rate was supposed to come in at 7.5%.
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  Speaker 10: I bring that up because it would have brought the
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  Speaker 10: average effective U.S. tariff rate against Chinese goods under the
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  Speaker 10: second Trump administration to 20 percent, which, of course, is
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  Speaker 10: a relatively large number. But it actually hits that cap
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  Speaker 10: that has been previously established with China under the current
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  Speaker 10: trade truce.
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  Speaker 3: So it actually wasn't really considered tariff.
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  Speaker 10: To be that major of an escalation that is raising
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  Speaker 10: questions about exactly why.
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  Speaker 3: These tariffs were postponed. Will there be a.
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  Speaker 10: Different rate depending on how the conversations go? Kayleigh and Joe,
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  Speaker 10: we may get more details on Monday.
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  Speaker 11: The U.S.
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  Speaker 10: Treasury Secretary sent to meet with his Chinese counterpart over
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  Speaker 10: the weekend.
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  Speaker 1: Tyler, thank you so much. Live from the White House,
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  Speaker 1: Bloomberg's Tyler Kendall.
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  Speaker 9: With much more to discuss ahead of next week. It'll
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  Speaker 9: be a very busy one around here with UNGA at
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  Speaker 9: the start of the week. And of course, the SHE
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  Speaker 9: Summit at the end of the week here on.
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  Speaker 1: Balance of Power. We'll have it all covered.
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  Speaker 9: Tyler is on her way up to Turtle Bay shortly
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  Speaker 9: after the close of business today, as a.
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  Speaker 1: Matter of fact.
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  Speaker 9: Kayleigh mentioned one of the biggest and most important stories
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  Speaker 9: of the week. When you talk about an unproductive Congress, Kayleigh,
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  Speaker 9: it was this Congress that passed the data center bill.
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  Speaker 1: They actually got it done.
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  Speaker 9: And it was an overwhelming vote, as it turned out,
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  Speaker 9: in an effort to control the impact on people's utility bills.
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  Speaker 9: But if you remember, this thing doesn't really take effect
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  Speaker 9: for two years, and it's not going to do much.
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  Speaker 1: Between now and November.
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  Speaker 6: Yeah, it may be more signal than anything trying to
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  Speaker 6: show voters that lawmakers are serious about making sure that
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  Speaker 6: there aren't detrimental effects on communities due to data centers.
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  Speaker 6: While the House passed this with a massive bipartisan margin,
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  Speaker 6: if and when it passes the Senate on what timeline
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  Speaker 6: is another question. And again, the timeline for it to
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  Speaker 6: actually have an impact is an open one too. But
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  Speaker 6: we are starting to hear consistently from lawmakers of both
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  Speaker 6: parties that if you want to have data centers built,
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  Speaker 6: you have to do it in a way in which
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  Speaker 6: it's beneficial to communities.
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  Speaker 7: They bring their own water. They bring their own power.
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  Speaker 6: This seems to be what everyone is coalescing around by
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  Speaker 6: and large.
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  Speaker 9: That's true, which was not the way it went when
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  Speaker 9: data centers started popping up out of the earth. You're
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  Speaker 9: from Virginia. I live in Virginia, the data center capital
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  Speaker 9: of the world. We've learned a lot over the past
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  Speaker 9: many years on this, but this has become a huge issue.
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  Speaker 9: And there's A slightly more clever solution that didn't come
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  Speaker 9: from Washington that we want to talk to you about,
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  Speaker 9: and it involves a company called Emerald AI. and two
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  Speaker 9: that you may have heard of, NVIDIA and Google. I'm
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  Speaker 9: glad to say that we're joined right now by the
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  Speaker 9: CEO and founder of Emerald AI, Varun Sivaram, who is
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  Speaker 9: with us right now in our studio in Washington.
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  Speaker 1: Varun, thank you for joining us here on Bloomberg TV
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  Speaker 1: and Radio. Joe, Kaylee, thanks for having me.
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  Speaker 9: So we've illustrated the problem. I want to hear how
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  Speaker 9: you've managed to solve it, because it's a more nuanced
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  Speaker 9: approach than what we have heard from lawmakers and regulators
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  Speaker 9: here in Washington.
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  Speaker 1: Exactly.
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  Speaker 12: Emerald AI, which we founded under two years ago, aims
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  Speaker 12: to transform AI data centers into flexible allies of the
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  Speaker 12: power grid. And the reason this works is if an
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  Speaker 12: AI data center can reduce its power consumption during those
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  Speaker 12: moments when the grid is really stressed out, a hot
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  Speaker 12: summer day in Phoenix, Arizona, let's say, then that data
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  Speaker 12: center can actually fit onto the existing power grid without
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  Speaker 12: having to build out expensive infrastructure that can have the
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  Speaker 12: effect of raising rates. In fact, flexible AI data centers,
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  Speaker 12: all else equal, can help to keep rates low and
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  Speaker 12: affordable for local communities And they can help to keep
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  Speaker 12: grids reliable, all while helping America gain a technological edge
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  Speaker 12: in the race for AI innovation as we get more
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  Speaker 12: data centers connected on the grid. So it's a win-win-win
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  Speaker 12: thanks to this technology of flexibility when you need it.
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  Speaker 7: Well, what gives, though, if you have to have flexibility?
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  Speaker 6: If there are moments at which the grid is strained
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  Speaker 6: and they have to bring it down, I would imagine
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  Speaker 6: that that means that you aren't necessarily powering all the
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  Speaker 6: compute you would be otherwise.
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  Speaker 1: There are many ways to get flexibility. I'll give you
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  Speaker 1: some examples.
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  Speaker 12: Our company, Emerald AI, has worked with giants like NVIDIA
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  Speaker 12: to enable a data center to slow down some of
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  Speaker 12: the computations that it's running. You might have a fine-tuning
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  Speaker 12: job that you can slow down or pause, or you
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  Speaker 12: can take a job and move it at the speed
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  Speaker 12: of light from one location to another. So, Kaylee, you're
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  Speaker 12: talking to ChatGPT, and suddenly... You're getting your answer not
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  Speaker 12: from Virginia, but from Chicago, as we've demonstrated at two
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  Speaker 12: different Oracle data centers on NVIDIA chips. In addition, you
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  Speaker 12: could run a battery that happens to be located on site.
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  Speaker 12: There are many ways to achieve this flexibility, but the
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  Speaker 12: goal is there's actually a lot of power on today's
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  Speaker 12: power grid that we just can't utilize. Because today, data
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  Speaker 12: centers require the use of power potentially 24-7. If they're
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  Speaker 12: able to be flexible in what we call good citizens
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  Speaker 12: on the power grid, well, they can use 100 gigawatts
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  Speaker 12: that we otherwise can't use on the power grid today.
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  Speaker 12: And that helps with the affordability concerns and with the
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  Speaker 12: speed to power.
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  Speaker 9: This sounds really smart, Varun, but what about all of
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  Speaker 9: the existing data centers? Do you have to retrofit all
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  Speaker 9: of them to be part of this new model? Or
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  Speaker 9: is this simply about the next generation?
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  Speaker 12: Well, so the way that Emerald AI works is we
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  Speaker 12: work both with existing data centers and with new data centers.
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  Speaker 12: NVIDIA is a big partner and investor in Emerald, as
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  Speaker 12: are 12 other Fortune 500 global companies. And together with them,
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  Speaker 12: we have models where for an existing data center, our software,
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  Speaker 12: the Emerald Conductor Platform, can help an existing data center
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  Speaker 12: change how it consumes energy. And we're building a new
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  Speaker 12: data center with NVIDIA and Digital Realty, the world's first
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  Speaker 12: from the ground up power flexible AI data center, AI factory.
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  Speaker 12: It's 100 megawatts in Manassas, Virginia, and it comes online
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  Speaker 12: later this year. So new data centers can get faster
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  Speaker 12: connections to the grid. Think of a fast lane. And
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  Speaker 12: existing data centers can get even more power much more quickly.
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  Speaker 9: It's interesting, Kaylee, because we talk so much about taking
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  Speaker 9: data centers off the grid.
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  Speaker 10: Right.
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  Speaker 1: It was behind the meter. Now we need them on
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  Speaker 1: the grid.
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  Speaker 6: Well, and I've actually spoke to the chair of FERC
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  Speaker 6: about this and the ways in which the grid needs
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  Speaker 6: to adapt to all of this.
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  Speaker 7: Are you in conversations with regulators?
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  Speaker 6: I just wonder what your, you've talked about the partnership
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  Speaker 6: with NVIDIA and others on the industry side, but what
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  Speaker 6: have your conversations on the government side?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely.
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  Speaker 12: We think that there is a grand bargain to be
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  Speaker 12: had where if data centers can work with regulators in
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  Speaker 12: the energy industry and say, look, You can actually have
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  Speaker 12: it all. You can have more data centers, more innovation.
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  Speaker 12: You can have lower rates for communities and you can
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  Speaker 12: have more reliable grids. There's a grand bargain to be had.
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  Speaker 12: Let's connect these flexible data centers faster. That's why this
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  Speaker 12: week we're so proud to have launched the AI Energy
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  Speaker 12: Management Alliance. Emerald, Google, and NVIDIA are the founding members
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  Speaker 12: of the AEMA, this alliance, and we're joined by a
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  Speaker 12: cohort of 20 launch partners, Anthropic, leading AI lab, and
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  Speaker 12: analog devices, leading semiconductor firm, and leading energy companies, AES, NRG, Constellation, RWE,
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  Speaker 12: National Grid. And together, we're presenting a unified front. You
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  Speaker 12: mentioned FERC, Kaylee. We're talking to the FERC commissioners. We're
• 11:14
  Speaker 12: talking to state regulators. We're talking to the administration to say,
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  Speaker 12: here's this grand bargain. Let's make sure that AI data
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  Speaker 12: centers can be good citizens, good citizens to grids, good
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  Speaker 12: citizens to communities. And in return, they should get faster
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  Speaker 12: and larger connections to the power grid.
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  Speaker 9: What do you make of some of the AI stories
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  Speaker 9: that we woke up to today? I know this isn't
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  Speaker 9: data center related, but you've been in this industry since 2008.
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  Speaker 1: It really started to kick up.
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  Speaker 9: I met you at the NVIDIA conference here about a
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  Speaker 9: year ago in Washington, D.C. We weren't talking about stories
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  Speaker 9: like these, about anthropic, for instance, self-learning. Claude is doing 26%
• 11:49
  Speaker 9: of its own research and development. Claude is also hacking
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  Speaker 9: chat GPT. How do we control this technology?
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  Speaker 12: Well, Joe, as you know, the reason I got into
• 11:57
  Speaker 12: this business to begin with is because I think energy
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  Speaker 12: has now become the defining issue for the AI revolution.
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  Speaker 12: If you look at China, for example, China has plenty
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  Speaker 12: of energy. By 2030, they're going to have 400 gigawatts
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  Speaker 12: of spare capacity for AI. The United States, however, does not.
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  Speaker 12: We want to connect 70 gigawatts of AI data centers
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  Speaker 12: over the next two years, between now and 2028. We
• 12:21
  Speaker 12: can only really plug in 30.
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  Speaker 9: But do you worry about AI security interfering with the
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  Speaker 9: work that you're trying to do on the energy side?
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  Speaker 1: People are changing their opinions as we're having this conversation.
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  Speaker 12: Well, look, it is absolutely critical that if the United
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  Speaker 12: States is going to compete, we're going to need data
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  Speaker 12: centers here in this country. And those data centers, we
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  Speaker 12: want to make sure through this new alliance and through
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  Speaker 12: Emerald AI's work, we want to make sure that those
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  Speaker 12: data centers are good citizens. The communities that host them
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  Speaker 12: deserve as much. If you're a community and you've got
• 12:48
  Speaker 12: a data center coming to town, you want to be sure, hey,
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  Speaker 12: that data center is going to bend over backwards so
• 12:53
  Speaker 12: that I don't have blackouts, I don't have reliability issues,
• 12:55
  Speaker 12: and my bills can stay affordable because everybody If not,
• 13:00
  Speaker 12: we start to face trade-offs. Data centers could come to
• 13:02
  Speaker 12: town and you might say, well, do I have the
• 13:04
  Speaker 12: space on the grid to also bring in advanced manufacturing
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  Speaker 12: or hospitals or neighborhood energy growth? Now with flexible AI
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  Speaker 12: data centers, you can have it all. And that's now
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  Speaker 12: not just Emerald AI saying this, it's now 20 leading
• 13:19
  Speaker 12: companies bringing the same unified message of this grand bargain
• 13:23
  Speaker 12: to regulators across the country.
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  Speaker 6: Can I just ask, as one of the stories Joe's
• 13:27
  Speaker 6: referring to is that AI is improving upon itself without
• 13:30
  Speaker 6: necessarily human direction, how much of this flexibility would be
• 13:33
  Speaker 6: driven by automated decision-making, slow down here, send it there?
• 13:37
  Speaker 6: Is the technology that is actually being powered by these
• 13:40
  Speaker 6: data centers also factoring into the way in which they
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  Speaker 6: are flexible?
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  Speaker 1: It's such a great question.
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  Speaker 12: How do we make these new devices, these large data centers,
• 13:48
  Speaker 12: how do we make them flexible? I first want to
• 13:50
  Speaker 12: say this is not science fiction. This is actually proven.
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  Speaker 12: You know, Google, one of the founding members of this
• 13:55
  Speaker 12: new alliance, has done a gigawatt of demand response for
• 13:58
  Speaker 12: its data centers. Emerald and NVIDIA have now done six
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  Speaker 12: demonstrations around the world in London, in Phoenix, in Virginia.
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  Speaker 12: And we now have, as I mentioned, this 100 megawatt
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  Speaker 12: facility coming online that can flex.
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  Speaker 1: I'll give you an example.
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  Speaker 6: But are humans directing the flexion?
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  Speaker 8: Great question.
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  Speaker 1: I'll give you an example.
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  Speaker 12: In London, it turns out at halftime of the soccer game,
• 14:16
  Speaker 12: everybody watches in Britain these soccer games, football they call it,
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  Speaker 12: and everyone turns on, they turn on their tea kettles
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  Speaker 12: at halftime, right? And so there's a spike of a
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  Speaker 12: gigawatt of power onto the grid at that moment.
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  Speaker 13: Hysteric.
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  Speaker 12: Now, in that moment, or a lightning strike hits the
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  Speaker 12: grid and takes out a substation or a line, in
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  Speaker 12: that moment, no human can act quickly enough in order
• 14:35
  Speaker 12: to modulate the power in that data center. And so
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  Speaker 12: what we demonstrated, Emerald with NVIDIA and the local utility
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  Speaker 12: National Grid, we demonstrated that data center was able to
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  Speaker 12: autonomously reduce its power consumption, but do it in a
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  Speaker 12: very special way.
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  Speaker 1: Do it in a way where the computations, the AI computations.
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  Speaker 12: would continue to run, the mission-critical computations continue to run at.
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  Speaker 1: The right performance level.
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  Speaker 12: And so we protected the AI, we protected the grid,
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  Speaker 12: rates stay low, and communities have resilient electricity.
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  Speaker 9: We ran out of time to ask you when you're
• 15:03
  Speaker 9: running for office or when you're going public.
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  Speaker 1: Let's do that next time.
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  Speaker 8: Joe, thank you for having me.
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  Speaker 7: Thanks for joining us.
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  Speaker 6: Varun Sivaram of Emerald AI here with us on Balance
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  Speaker 6: of Power.
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  Speaker 1: Stay with us on Balance of Power. We'll have much
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  Speaker 1: more coming up after this.
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  Speaker 5: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our
• 15:33
  Speaker 5: flagship New York station. Just say Alexa, play Bloomberg 1130.
• 15:39
  Speaker 9: I said at the top of the show the Kennedy
• 15:41
  Speaker 9: Center is still standing, which is news here in Washington,
• 15:44
  Speaker 9: with the president threatening to literally tear down the building.
• 15:47
  Speaker 9: And then we saw that wild photograph that was taken
• 15:50
  Speaker 9: outside of Air Force One. One of the AFP photographers
• 15:53
  Speaker 9: zoomed in on the window there and saw the president
• 15:56
  Speaker 9: looking at this big image on the wall that seemed
• 15:59
  Speaker 9: to read Kennedy Center demolished, like a big hole in
• 16:03
  Speaker 9: the ground on the side of the Potomac River. I
• 16:06
  Speaker 9: guess it won't happen. Well, I guess, well, at least
• 16:08
  Speaker 9: not for 30 days. If you're with us on 99.1
• 16:12
  Speaker 9: here in Washington, you might be driving by it now.
• 16:15
  Speaker 9: I do look as I cross the bridge every morning.
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: Is it still standing? It is right now.
• 16:21
  Speaker 9: Judge yesterday said any demolition or other construction will require
• 16:25
  Speaker 9: 30 days notice. So put a pin in that. Because
• 16:31
  Speaker 9: a big protest will be happening there tonight. Enter Wonder Woman.
• 16:35
  Speaker 9: None other than Wonder Woman to the rescue of the
• 16:40
  Speaker 9: Kennedy Center.
• 16:40
  Speaker 13: Yeah.
• 16:41
  Speaker 9: Linda Carter, alongside Kerry Kennedy, will be leading a protest
• 16:46
  Speaker 9: outside of the Kennedy Center this evening to try to
• 16:51
  Speaker 9: preserve the monument to JFK. As we learned today, though,
• 16:56
  Speaker 9: it's not just the Kennedy Center. In fact, it's not
• 16:58
  Speaker 9: very far away where we have This thing called the
• 17:01
  Speaker 9: Institute of Peace. It stood there before the president made
• 17:05
  Speaker 9: it his own. And board members from the Institute of
• 17:08
  Speaker 9: Peace are now in court with an emergency motion trying
• 17:11
  Speaker 9: to prevent the president from etching his name into the
• 17:14
  Speaker 9: side of the building there.
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: I have no update for you on that one.
• 17:17
  Speaker 9: But I mean, I guess I'll have to have my
• 17:20
  Speaker 9: change my commute where I can drive by all of
• 17:22
  Speaker 9: these on the way in and let you know what's happening.
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: We got to go by the reflecting pool as well.
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: Is that still all?
• 17:27
  Speaker 9: Well, that's for another show.
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: We've got our panel with us. It's Friday.
• 17:33
  Speaker 9: It's, you know, Rick and Jeannie time, and there's nothing
• 17:35
  Speaker 9: better than that as we get to the midterm campaign
• 17:38
  Speaker 9: trail where there have been some pretty wild developments here.
• 17:39
  Speaker 9: You know, the Michigan race has been really interesting to watch.
• 17:43
  Speaker 9: Senate race, El Sayed. We were talking yesterday about the
• 17:45
  Speaker 9: polling that shows him within the margin of error, leading
• 17:48
  Speaker 9: Mike Rogers, but not by the extent to which other
• 17:51
  Speaker 9: Democrats in the state are. Maybe this will help. Another
• 17:56
  Speaker 9: drop from the Washington Post and the Schar School out
• 17:59
  Speaker 9: with another poll today. finding more than 60% of likely voters,
• 18:03
  Speaker 9: this isn't registered, likely voters in Michigan, oppose President Trump's
• 18:09
  Speaker 9: tariffs on Canada.
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: This is Michigan, after all.
• 18:15
  Speaker 9: Think of how many of these people work for GM
• 18:16
  Speaker 9: or Ford with shared manufacturing chains crossing the border. Michigan Democrats,
• 18:24
  Speaker 9: no surprise, overwhelmingly oppose the tariffs. That's 89%. Majority of Republicans, though, too.
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: 56%. But this is the one that stings. Independents.
• 18:36
  Speaker 9: 68% say they disapprove of President Trump's tariffs on Canada.
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: And it should be no mystery.
• 18:44
  Speaker 9: Canada affects 6% of the $ 700 billion in annual cross-border
• 18:50
  Speaker 9: trade between our two nations. In the state, it is
• 18:53
  Speaker 9: much higher than that for obvious reasons. We've got a
• 18:57
  Speaker 9: lot to talk about here, including this. And we've got
• 19:00
  Speaker 9: some other polling that's coming out of Kansas showing a
• 19:03
  Speaker 9: Democrat maybe becoming the next senator of Kansas. The Democrat
• 19:07
  Speaker 9: may be the next senator from Texas. Is this all
• 19:11
  Speaker 9: silly season? Let's pull our panel together here. Bloomberg Politics
• 19:16
  Speaker 9: contributors Jeannie Shanzano and Rick Davis are with us. Happy Friday, guys.
• 19:19
  Speaker 9: Rick is our Republican strategist and partner at Stonecourt Capital.
• 19:22
  Speaker 9: Jeannie is our Democratic analyst, Democracy Visiting Fellow at Harvard
• 19:25
  Speaker 9: Kennedy School's Ash Center. You're no stranger to polling, Jeannie Shanzano.
• 19:30
  Speaker 9: Is this advantage, I'll say it, beyond the horse race
• 19:34
  Speaker 9: polls that we're seeing?
• 19:37
  Speaker 14: I mean, I think we have to be cautiously optimistic
• 19:41
  Speaker 14: if you're a Democrat about that, because we still have,
• 19:46
  Speaker 14: about 40 days to go, albeit it is early voting times.
• 19:50
  Speaker 14: Early voting season has just begun today, I believe, in
• 19:53
  Speaker 14: your home state of Virginia, Joe. So people are already
• 19:56
  Speaker 14: at the polls. And Republicans have an awful lot of
• 20:02
  Speaker 14: money banked that they can throw at these races. That said,
• 20:06
  Speaker 14: this environment is looking better and better for Democrats. You know,
• 20:10
  Speaker 14: when you just think about the Senate, the idea that
• 20:14
  Speaker 14: we would be talking about Senate races and places like
• 20:18
  Speaker 14: Kansas and Texas and Alaska being, you know, potentially North Carolina.
• 20:24
  Speaker 14: potentially open to Democrats. You know, John Kennedy, who I
• 20:28
  Speaker 14: know you love to quote because he always has the
• 20:30
  Speaker 14: best quotes. He said he's going to be he's the best.
• 20:34
  Speaker 14: He's going to be up in Kansas, Nebraska, Iowa this
• 20:37
  Speaker 14: weekend to raise money to campaign for these candidates.
• 20:41
  Speaker 7: And let's face it, these are all pretty good candidates.
• 20:44
  Speaker 14: And he said, you know, you told me six months
• 20:46
  Speaker 14: ago we'd be spending time and money there. I'd have
• 20:49
  Speaker 14: not believed you. He said it more colorfully than I am.
• 20:52
  Speaker 14: But he said, you know, we will win, according to him.
• 20:55
  Speaker 14: But these races are close. And of course, you couple
• 20:57
  Speaker 14: that with J.D. Vance in Iowa. I mean, this is
• 21:01
  Speaker 14: outrageous for Republicans. So, yeah, these seats that we thought
• 21:05
  Speaker 14: may be locked for Republicans, they are suddenly open. And
• 21:09
  Speaker 14: so Democrats have a chance.
• 21:13
  Speaker 9: Hey, Rick, I don't know if you've got a big
• 21:14
  Speaker 9: bucket of cold water to throw on this whole thing,
• 21:16
  Speaker 9: but this Emerson College poll out of Kansas says Seems
• 21:19
  Speaker 9: to be a showstopper here. As the pollsters write, Spencer
• 21:24
  Speaker 9: Kimball has been on this program a lot of times.
• 21:26
  Speaker 9: The poll finds Democrats with their best chance to win
• 21:29
  Speaker 9: their first Senate seat in, yes, Kansas since 1932. It
• 21:34
  Speaker 9: has a lot to do with independent voter appeal on
• 21:36
  Speaker 9: behalf of Adam Hamilton, the Democrat who is running against
• 21:39
  Speaker 9: Roger Marshall, the Republican senator who has been on this
• 21:43
  Speaker 9: program many times.
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: Do you believe it, Rick? What's happening in Kansas?
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: Well, love Emerson polling, but hate text polls, and that's
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: what this was. So methodology-wise, not my favorite. But look,
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: we've seen a lot going on in Kansas lately, right?
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: You know, the voters rejected Republican efforts to crack down
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: on abortion. Just this last spring, voters rejected Republican legislator
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: and governor's efforts to drive state Supreme Court justices for election.
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: I mean, overwhelmingly supported basically the Democratic line on that.
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: And now you see a close Kansas race for the Senate.
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: And regardless of the polls, you have to think, hey,
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: there's something going on in Kansas. And they are all
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: susceptible to the same block of issues that are driving
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: a lot of these independents you were just mentioning. into
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: the Democratic arm, right? I mean, like AI and data centers, denial, denial,
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: denial by the administration. You know, cost of living and affordability, denial, denial, denial.
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: I mean, like, these are things they want to talk about.
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: Independents particularly are expressly concerned about the economy and the
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: encroachment of technology into their lives. And this administration, who
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: now has said, this election is all about me, Donald Trump, says,
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: ignore those things.
• 23:04
  Speaker 8: They're all hoaxes.
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: You know, you're living in a.
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: Perfect society that with me at the helm, Donald Trump
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: is president. I'll take care of all those things for you.
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: That is not a message that's resounding in any state.
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: There are now almost 12 states that have competitive in
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: the margin of error races for the United States Senate.
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: And two thirds of those are races we wouldn't have
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: even spent 10 bucks on, you know, if you thought...
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: uh republicans were uh going to have any kind of
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: a challenge so you know the real effect we're going
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: to republics are going to have to spread a lot
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: of money thinly across a dozen states that they thought
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: maybe was going to be four uh and and that
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: really stretches our resources as as genie said republicans have
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: more money but they have more risks now than they
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: ever thought they had you.
• 23:53
  Speaker 9: Know This Kansas poll would require some ticket splitting based
• 23:57
  Speaker 9: on what we're seeing here, Jeannie. I don't know your
• 23:59
  Speaker 9: thoughts on this, but when we look to the election
• 24:01
  Speaker 9: for governor in Kansas, Ty Masterson, 51%, the Democrat, Cindy Holscher, 44%.
• 24:08
  Speaker 9: As Spencer says, independent splitting in the race for governor.
• 24:11
  Speaker 9: They break for Masterson by two points. Can Democrats win
• 24:14
  Speaker 9: the Senate for the first time since the 1930s in Kansas?
• 24:21
  Speaker 7: Joe, I hear it in your voice.
• 24:23
  Speaker 14: You can't even believe it since the 1930s. Me neither.
• 24:28
  Speaker 14: But I'll tell you, as much as we blame the
• 24:30
  Speaker 14: larger environment and Donald Trump and the, you know, obviously
• 24:35
  Speaker 14: the very unpopular tariff war with Canada and the unpopular
• 24:38
  Speaker 14: war in this case. Doc Marshall also has a lot
• 24:43
  Speaker 14: to answer, too. I take you back to the Kansas
• 24:45
  Speaker 14: State Fair, September 12th, the other day, when he was
• 24:49
  Speaker 14: booed repeatedly with the crowd.
• 24:52
  Speaker 7: Chanting shame on you.
• 24:54
  Speaker 10: Why?
• 24:55
  Speaker 14: A lot of things. But one of them was an
• 24:57
  Speaker 14: expose by The New York Times, which found Doc Marshall
• 25:01
  Speaker 14: had sued 700 of his former patients. Many of them
• 25:06
  Speaker 14: indigent women because he was an OBGYN for many, many
• 25:10
  Speaker 14: years before he went to the Senate. And Joe, this
• 25:13
  Speaker 14: was no, you know, we're just going to collect our money.
• 25:16
  Speaker 14: Eighty one of these people were arrested. They were charged
• 25:21
  Speaker 14: 18 percent wages garnished. And this kept up after Doc
• 25:25
  Speaker 14: Marshall went to the Senate. That does not make the
• 25:29
  Speaker 14: average Kansan very comfortable. You add to that the idea
• 25:33
  Speaker 14: that he is carpetbagger. He, you know, was blaming much
• 25:37
  Speaker 14: of this on social media Nazis. But it was a really,
• 25:42
  Speaker 14: really astonishing debate to listen to. And he's, of course,
• 25:46
  Speaker 14: running against it. Hamilton, a pastor, and he stood up
• 25:51
  Speaker 14: there and defended Donald Trump on tariffs and, by the way,
• 25:55
  Speaker 14: on gas prices, saying gas prices were higher under Joe Biden. Well,
• 26:00
  Speaker 14: when Joe Biden left office, they were $ 2. 81 in Kansas.
• 26:03
  Speaker 14: They're now over $ 4 a gallon. People of Kansas know this.
• 26:07
  Speaker 14: So as much as Donald Trump can be blamed for
• 26:09
  Speaker 14: the environment and making the race about him, Doc Marshall
• 26:13
  Speaker 14: has done himself no favors and the people of Kansas
• 26:16
  Speaker 14: are now looking for an alternative.
• 26:19
  Speaker 9: Jeannie Shanzano loaded for bear today on Doc Marshall. Honestly,
• 26:23
  Speaker 9: I'm glad you walked through all that because this is
• 26:25
  Speaker 9: all part of it. These things are not always just
• 26:30
  Speaker 9: national trends. There are obviously race-specific issues, kind of like
• 26:35
  Speaker 9: the one for Beau French.
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: Boy, this has been a story this week. I don't
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: know your thoughts on this.
• 26:42
  Speaker 9: Rick, we're already talking about the potential, and I realize
• 26:44
  Speaker 9: you might challenge this idea of James Talrico winning the
• 26:48
  Speaker 9: Senate race. in Texas, but now Karl Rove says he's
• 26:52
  Speaker 9: voting for a Democrat for the first time since the
• 26:56
  Speaker 9: 1990s because of this awful racist, uh, nativist, uh, social
• 27:01
  Speaker 9: media post by Beau French, uh, which other Republicans are, are,
• 27:05
  Speaker 9: are turning away from as well. Should I be connected,
• 27:09
  Speaker 9: connecting the dots on, on any of these or are
• 27:12
  Speaker 9: these all race specific stories?
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: Well, look, this is a race specific story.
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: I mean, obviously, there's a lot of anxiety in Texas
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: about the Senate candidate Paxson and his lack of ethical
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: track record in public office. But this one is really unique, right?
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: I mean, like every party has its outlier. And I
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: think Beau French certainly deserves Karl Rove's wrath. And believe me,
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: I say that not lightly. And the idea that a
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: lifelong Republican who's committed to the party's success votes against
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: somebody like this tells you something.
• 27:53
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 27:54
  Speaker 9: I hear you, Rick Davis and Jeanne Shanzano. What a
• 27:56
  Speaker 9: great panel. Stay with us on Balance of Power. We'll
• 27:59
  Speaker 9: have much more coming up after this.
• 28:04
  Speaker 5: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch
• 28:08
  Speaker 5: us live weekdays at noon and 5 p.m. Eastern on
• 28:11
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• 28:15
  Speaker 5: Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts or watch
• 28:18
  Speaker 5: us live on YouTube.
• 28:21
  Speaker 9: All right, Charlie Pellett, he's going to Netflix and chill
• 28:23
  Speaker 9: for about 20 minutes and back with more on the
• 28:25
  Speaker 9: Friday trade. Wonder what Charlie's favorite Netflix show is. Does
• 28:29
  Speaker 9: anyone have a favorite Netflix show at this point? I
• 28:32
  Speaker 9: don't really know what they make anymore. which might be
• 28:34
  Speaker 9: part of the problem.
• 28:36
  Speaker 11: Joe, I got to tell you, I spend too much
• 28:38
  Speaker 11: time on Instagram and TikTok. I don't know about you.
• 28:40
  Speaker 11: And I have to tell you too, when I get
• 28:42
  Speaker 11: out of work, last thing I want to do very
• 28:44
  Speaker 11: often is turn on a screen. I don't know if
• 28:45
  Speaker 11: you feel the same way too.
• 28:46
  Speaker 10: Yeah.
• 28:47
  Speaker 9: No, I appreciate that very much. And you're a ninja
• 28:51
  Speaker 9: on social media.
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: I have nothing. I just look at what everyone else does.
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: I have fun.
• 28:57
  Speaker 11: You know, like everybody, sometimes I wind up doom-scrolling at night,
• 29:00
  Speaker 11: but I always seem to learn something. That said, when
• 29:02
  Speaker 11: I do go for TV, invariably it is programs where
• 29:06
  Speaker 11: I feel I have learned something, not watching Housewives, not
• 29:09
  Speaker 11: watching people living below deck. I'm too busy, you know,
• 29:13
  Speaker 11: watching about the history of aviation or watching about— irrigation
• 29:17
  Speaker 11: systems in far off lands. That's the kind of stuff
• 29:19
  Speaker 11: that fascinates me.
• 29:21
  Speaker 9: I'm glad that you're well aware of my wife's playlist.
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: I don't know what they do on a deck either.
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: I don't watch those shows. Charlie, thank you. He'll be
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: back in about 20 minutes.
• 29:30
  Speaker 9: As I said, Charlie Pellett's a big part of our
• 29:32
  Speaker 9: program every day as we connect the dots between Washington
• 29:35
  Speaker 9: and Wall Street. I kind of wish I was under
• 29:37
  Speaker 9: deck right now, but we've got a lot more to
• 29:39
  Speaker 9: talk about. here ahead of next week. You thought this
• 29:41
  Speaker 9: week was fun. Next week is going to be a
• 29:44
  Speaker 9: ripper when it comes to international affairs and yes, artificial intelligence.
• 29:49
  Speaker 9: We're going to connect the dots within our own hour
• 29:51
  Speaker 9: here because there's been so much talk about an AI
• 29:54
  Speaker 9: security agreement, potentially at least being talked about.
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: Between the U.S. and China.
• 29:59
  Speaker 9: You know, President, Xi is coming next week. It's not
• 30:01
  Speaker 9: just UNGA. We've got the Xi visit here at the
• 30:03
  Speaker 9: end of next week. So we're going to kind of
• 30:05
  Speaker 9: break this down into two here as we spend some
• 30:08
  Speaker 9: time with Anya. And I've been looking forward to Anya
• 30:12
  Speaker 9: Manuel being back with us. It's been a long time
• 30:13
  Speaker 9: from Aspen Strategy Group. So the president's got a couple
• 30:16
  Speaker 9: of missions next week. He's going to head to New
• 30:19
  Speaker 9: York the early part of the week. And you know
• 30:21
  Speaker 9: the deal. He does the speech in front of the
• 30:23
  Speaker 9: Green Marble and all this stuff. And they have the
• 30:24
  Speaker 9: sideline bilateral meetings. But he's also planning an important summit,
• 30:29
  Speaker 9: as he's calling it, with Gulf leaders that will be
• 30:32
  Speaker 9: specifically about the war with Iran. That resolves into the
• 30:37
  Speaker 9: big summit and the state dinner at the end of
• 30:40
  Speaker 9: next week. And we can continue connecting dots because, yeah,
• 30:42
  Speaker 9: there's another big AI connection here. Jensen Wong's going to
• 30:46
  Speaker 9: be walking around. Sam Altman will be in the state
• 30:49
  Speaker 9: dining room, presuming that's where it takes place. Cristiano Amon,
• 30:52
  Speaker 9: Qualcomm will be there. All the executives from the world
• 30:57
  Speaker 9: of AI are going to be part of this conversation.
• 31:00
  Speaker 9: But the president first has to survive Turtle Bay and UNGA,
• 31:05
  Speaker 9: the escalator and the teleprompter. You know he loves making
• 31:10
  Speaker 9: this visit every year. We go in the balance of
• 31:13
  Speaker 9: power way back machine to bring you to last year's speech, remember?
• 31:18
  Speaker 4: All I got from the United Nations was an escalator
• 31:21
  Speaker 4: that on the way up stopped right in the middle.
• 31:24
  Speaker 4: If the first lady wasn't in great shape, she would
• 31:27
  Speaker 4: have fallen. But she's in great shape.
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: We're both in good shape. We both stood.
• 31:35
  Speaker 4: And then a teleprompter that didn't work. These are the
• 31:39
  Speaker 4: two things I got from the United Nations, a bad
• 31:42
  Speaker 4: escalator and a bad teleprompter. I can only say that
• 31:46
  Speaker 4: whoever's operating this teleprompter is in big trouble.
• 31:53
  Speaker 8: I don't know.
• 31:53
  Speaker 9: I feel I can kind of relate with that. All
• 31:55
  Speaker 9: I got from the United Nations was this stupid T-shirt. Obviously,
• 32:01
  Speaker 9: producer Sam was not running the teleprompter that day. Producer
• 32:04
  Speaker 9: Sam was mining archival tape there to remind us of
• 32:07
  Speaker 9: some of the greatest hits. What's going to happen this year?
• 32:11
  Speaker 9: You'll see him in front of the green marble again.
• 32:13
  Speaker 9: What will be his message to the globe? And where
• 32:16
  Speaker 9: will AI feature in this speech? Then how does it
• 32:19
  Speaker 9: resolve in the meeting that everyone involved at UNGA will
• 32:23
  Speaker 9: be watching right here in Washington with President Xi? Anya
• 32:27
  Speaker 9: Manuel is at the Aspen Strategy Group as executive director
• 32:31
  Speaker 9: and is with us now on Bloomberg. It's great to
• 32:33
  Speaker 9: have you back as part of our conversation. Should we
• 32:35
  Speaker 9: have high expectations for UNGA, if we can break these
• 32:38
  Speaker 9: into a couple of buckets, and particularly this summit of
• 32:43
  Speaker 9: Arab states moving the needle when it comes to the
• 32:45
  Speaker 9: war with Iran?
• 32:46
  Speaker 8: Yeah. Good to be with you again, Joe.
• 32:48
  Speaker 13: I live out here in San Francisco where every screen
• 32:51
  Speaker 13: is filled with the AI apocalypse. So happy to be
• 32:54
  Speaker 13: talking about UNGA. I think, sadly, our expectations should be
• 32:59
  Speaker 13: really low. You have three really difficult, festering conflicts. You
• 33:04
  Speaker 13: have Iran that we talk about all the time. You
• 33:06
  Speaker 13: have Ukraine and you have Sudan, which no one ever
• 33:09
  Speaker 13: talks about. And even though you're right, there's going to
• 33:12
  Speaker 13: be a big meeting between our president and the Gulf
• 33:15
  Speaker 13: leader's everyone seems a little bit stuck in what to
• 33:18
  Speaker 13: do about the Iran conflict. As you know, the Saudi
• 33:21
  Speaker 13: pipeline was hit last week. That's bringing the amount of
• 33:25
  Speaker 13: oil flowing out of the region down even more. Tit
• 33:28
  Speaker 13: for tat strikes in the Straits of Hormuz, and no
• 33:30
  Speaker 13: one seems.
• 33:31
  Speaker 8: To know a way out.
• 33:33
  Speaker 9: It's a real sticky situation here. And it's not just
• 33:37
  Speaker 9: going to be, you know, the G7 or G20 here.
• 33:39
  Speaker 9: We'll have leaders from around the world, and many of
• 33:41
  Speaker 9: them don't have the strength or influence of the United
• 33:44
  Speaker 9: States or its partners, how many of those leaders of
• 33:47
  Speaker 9: smaller nations.
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: Are aware of or.
• 33:52
  Speaker 9: Talking about the threats of AI and interested in engaging
• 33:56
  Speaker 9: with these larger companies who are home to the hyperscalers
• 34:00
  Speaker 9: and all the big minds behind this technology?
• 34:03
  Speaker 13: Yeah, that's a really good point. So smaller powers are
• 34:06
  Speaker 13: engaging in the AI debate. And actually, the UN has
• 34:10
  Speaker 13: a pretty good working group on AI. But of course,
• 34:13
  Speaker 13: the artificial intelligence superpowers are the United States and China.
• 34:18
  Speaker 8: And what we're seeing now, it's.
• 34:20
  Speaker 13: You know, here everyone's talking about artificial general intelligence slowing
• 34:24
  Speaker 13: down the frontier. But what's happening right now in real
• 34:27
  Speaker 13: time in the U.S., AI-enabled cyber attacks are up five
• 34:32
  Speaker 13: times since the beginning of this year. And you're seeing
• 34:34
  Speaker 13: the same thing happen in other countries as well. So
• 34:38
  Speaker 13: this isn't just a U.S.
• 34:39
  Speaker 8: Problem.
• 34:40
  Speaker 13: And it's happening based on Claude and our models, but
• 34:42
  Speaker 13: it's also happening because the Chinese open-weight models are.
• 34:45
  Speaker 8: So easy to use and so easy to use in
• 34:47
  Speaker 8: cyber attacks.
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: Well, let's dive into this then. That's really interesting to consider.
• 34:52
  Speaker 9: Even if the United States then does not have a
• 34:54
  Speaker 9: framework with China, and you can weigh in on whether
• 34:57
  Speaker 9: you think that's possible, because these are the two Obviously,
• 35:00
  Speaker 9: the two lead characters in the so-called race. But could
• 35:03
  Speaker 9: there be an UNGA-wide resolution that addresses AI security?
• 35:08
  Speaker 10: No.
• 35:11
  Speaker 4: No.
• 35:12
  Speaker 8: It's a little bit like nuclear weapons.
• 35:15
  Speaker 13: So if the great nuclear powers agree to limit the
• 35:18
  Speaker 13: number of nuclear weapons you have, that's very powerful.
• 35:21
  Speaker 8: What the UN can do is be a moral leader
• 35:24
  Speaker 8: in this, and they've done a lot of work on that.
• 35:26
  Speaker 13: Smaller powers are thinking through how do you make AI
• 35:30
  Speaker 13: work for your societies? There are all sorts of issues
• 35:32
  Speaker 13: we're dealing with here, including how do you make AI
• 35:35
  Speaker 13: actually work for your people? How do you build the
• 35:37
  Speaker 13: data centers in a way that's still... comports with some
• 35:40
  Speaker 13: environmental regulations, all of those kinds of things. And UNGA
• 35:43
  Speaker 13: is doing some of that and some of the values.
• 35:46
  Speaker 13: But the big agreement, and by the way, here I'm
• 35:49
  Speaker 13: cautiously optimistic, not that Secretary Besant and his counterpart, Hurley Fang,
• 35:54
  Speaker 13: will have a breakthrough.
• 35:55
  Speaker 8: On AI this week, but I'm really.
• 35:57
  Speaker 13: Optimistic that we're speaking to the Chinese about it, because
• 36:01
  Speaker 13: I know from some of my conversations with Chinese AI
• 36:04
  Speaker 13: safety researchers, But they're worried about similar things that we are.
• 36:08
  Speaker 8: So I want to.
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: Hear more about that.
• 36:10
  Speaker 8: That's and we should.
• 36:11
  Speaker 9: That's not something we hear enough about. There's an assumption
• 36:13
  Speaker 9: in America that it's damn the torpedoes in China.
• 36:16
  Speaker 10: Right.
• 36:17
  Speaker 9: Whatever we have to do to win. You're telling us
• 36:19
  Speaker 9: that's not the case. Does that mean there is room
• 36:21
  Speaker 9: for some agreement or is Donald Trump too far in
• 36:25
  Speaker 9: the damn the torpedoes camp?
• 36:28
  Speaker 13: Well, I'm not in the president's head, but I think
• 36:31
  Speaker 13: this idea about racing ahead of beating the Chinese versus safety,
• 36:36
  Speaker 13: I think it's a false choice. You can and have
• 36:38
  Speaker 13: to have both. So first, we've got to keep advancing
• 36:42
  Speaker 13: the technology, the research.
• 36:44
  Speaker 8: We're doing that. That's fine.
• 36:45
  Speaker 13: But that doesn't mean that we need to let out
• 36:48
  Speaker 13: into the world the most dangerous capabilities. You can think
• 36:52
  Speaker 13: through carefully, as some of our companies are doing, OK,
• 36:55
  Speaker 13: are we going to let out models that have real
• 36:57
  Speaker 13: cyber problems that help people make bio or chem weapons?
• 37:00
  Speaker 8: Those are the kinds of things you were worried about.
• 37:02
  Speaker 8: And then the most.
• 37:03
  Speaker 13: Important piece where I think here, Joe, the Chinese are actually, frankly,
• 37:07
  Speaker 13: a little bit of ahead of the United States is
• 37:10
  Speaker 13: thinking through the bargain with our people. Like AI has
• 37:14
  Speaker 13: to help ordinary Americans and not just make people out
• 37:17
  Speaker 13: here in Silicon Valley rich. And the Chinese, by the way,
• 37:20
  Speaker 13: are teaching AI in schools. They're having credits for small
• 37:24
  Speaker 13: and medium enterprises to use AI. They have 10 data
• 37:27
  Speaker 13: center clusters around the country where there's plentiful clean energy
• 37:32
  Speaker 13: and water and land. So those are the kinds of
• 37:35
  Speaker 13: common sense things that we could easily do here in
• 37:38
  Speaker 13: the United States.
• 37:39
  Speaker 8: China is not preventing us from doing them.
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: That's fascinating. Where are they on data center? Are they
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: holding up NIMBY signs in China?
• 37:46
  Speaker 8: They're not holding up NIMBY signs. I mean, it's an
• 37:48
  Speaker 8: authoritarian regime, so people don't have an opportunity to say no.
• 37:52
  Speaker 13: But there are 10 data center clusters that have been
• 37:57
  Speaker 13: decided where they're going to be around China. And a
• 37:59
  Speaker 13: lot of them, I visited one of these in way
• 38:02
  Speaker 13: southern China just about nine months ago or so. And
• 38:07
  Speaker 13: it's run on almost entirely on solar power. So in
• 38:10
  Speaker 13: the next few years, China is going to mandate that
• 38:13
  Speaker 13: all new data centers have to be 80 percent clean power.
• 38:16
  Speaker 8: These aren't crazy things. We could do them here.
• 38:19
  Speaker 13: California, by the way, is starting with some common sense
• 38:22
  Speaker 13: reforms like this.
• 38:23
  Speaker 8: So this is eminently possible. And I think we should
• 38:26
  Speaker 8: get our act together right here at home.
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: China, the home of burning coal.
• 38:30
  Speaker 9: That's kind of amazingly here in our remaining, you know, normally.
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: Well, that's true.
• 38:35
  Speaker 9: I would normally be asking you about trade, about tariffs.
• 38:40
  Speaker 9: Will that be addressed next week?
• 38:43
  Speaker 8: It will be addressed. And if we're lucky, Joe, the
• 38:45
  Speaker 8: truce will hold.
• 38:46
  Speaker 13: I think the worry that most American CEOs that I
• 38:50
  Speaker 13: talk to have is the critical minerals deal. It's holding
• 38:53
  Speaker 13: a name, but de facto, people aren't getting the licenses
• 38:58
  Speaker 13: to get the critical minerals that they need at the
• 39:00
  Speaker 13: speed at which they need. So that's going to be
• 39:02
  Speaker 13: high on the list. AI is going to be a topic. Fentanyl,
• 39:06
  Speaker 13: by the way, is going to be a topic. And
• 39:07
  Speaker 13: their cooperation is actually going okay. Our fentanyl interceptions are
• 39:13
  Speaker 13: down a lot from year to year. Part of that,
• 39:16
  Speaker 13: not all.
• 39:16
  Speaker 8: Of it, is because the Chinese are being better on
• 39:18
  Speaker 8: precursor chemicals. So it's not all bad. There are glimmers
• 39:22
  Speaker 8: of hope.
• 39:23
  Speaker 10: Yeah.
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: Be curious to see how the state dinner goes.
• 39:27
  Speaker 10: On you.
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: We missed you.
• 39:28
  Speaker 9: And it's great to spend some time with you. Thank
• 39:29
  Speaker 9: you for the update here. Aspen Strategy Group, really interesting.
• 39:32
  Speaker 9: We'll be talking about this at this time next week
• 39:35
  Speaker 9: as we unpack everything, of course, that happened in the
• 39:39
  Speaker 9: Trump-Xi summit. Big doings here in Washington. And we'll have
• 39:42
  Speaker 9: team coverage, of course, as you expect, right here on
• 39:46
  Speaker 9: Bloomberg Radio.
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Balance of Power podcast. Make
• 39:52
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• 39:56
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• 39:58
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• 40:02
  Speaker 1: at Bloomberg.com.