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255. The Real Estate Robinsons: Forging A Partnership In Business & In Life · Thanks For Visiting

0:00
Sarah: SEGMENT GAP
0:00
Hello.
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Welcome back another great episode.
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My name is Sarah Karakaian.
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Annette: I am Annette Grant, and together we are--
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Both Annette & Sarah: Thanks for Visiting.
0:06
Sarah: All right, let's kick off the show like we do every week, that's
0:08
sharing one of you, our amazing listeners and viewers who are using our
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hashtag on Instagram #STRShareSunday.
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If you're using the tag, we will find you and we will share you here in the pod.
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Annette, who we sharing this week?
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Annette: This week we are sharing @the_sopris_view_house.
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The Sopris View House.
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And yes, I say the because I went to the Ohio State University,
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but back to this STR share.
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The thing that I want to say about this home, it is in Carbondale, Colorado,
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so it is between Aspen and Snowmass.
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And these views, I have not seen a listing recently with these amazing views, and
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what I love is they are highlighting them again and again on their Instagram.
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And I want to applaud that because I think sometimes we get
1:01
nervous that we are showing the same thing over and over again.
1:05
Listen, if that is the reason, show them.
1:10
Show the people what they want.
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Show the people why they need to stay.
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I kept scrolling through because I was like, I want to wake up.
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I want to drink coffee there.
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I want to set out on the deck and watch the stars.
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I want to read a book and look at this view.
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The view alone was enticing me to stay at their property.
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So find that thing, let it shine.
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Rinse and repeat.
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Let people know what's special about your property, and don't be scared
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to show it off over and over again.
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It truly is-- these views are amazing, and if that's what someone
1:44
is craving, what they're looking for, they're definitely showcasing it.
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And the one other thing I want to share is I loved it.
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They started when they were starting to build this home, and so I was invested.
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I was like, oh my gosh, they're putting up the walls.
1:59
She thought they were going to make it by the holidays.
2:01
They didn't make it by the holidays.
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Shocker, because that's how it goes.
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Sarah: They never do.
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Annette: Um, it was like, oh, it so cute.
2:06
She thinks they're going to open by the holidays.
2:08
But sharing their story like that, it was fun to see it from the bones
2:13
all the way to moving to decor.
2:15
And so well done on starting immediately when they broke ground and to showing
2:19
the final deck with the amazing view.
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So check them out, give them some love, and use our hashtag STR ShareSunday.
2:26
Sarah: All right.
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Let's get into this show.
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We have a new format, a little bit, listeners, where we've
2:32
already recorded the episode.
2:34
This way we can invite you into little fomo.
2:36
Annette: Give you some of the good, the juice juice, the
2:38
juicy goodness that came out.
2:40
Sarah: What was your favorite feedback from this convo, Annette?
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Annette: This was like a PhD-like session in partnerships and very,
2:51
very transparent on creating deals with partners and what they look like.
2:58
And our guest has over 17 different partners, so I think they know a
3:03
thing or three, and they were very, very open and honest about that.
3:08
And some things they would never, yes, I used the word never, do again.
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Sarah: All right.
3:12
On today's show we have Tony and Sara Robinson.
3:15
They are a husband and wife team known as The Real Estate Robinsons.
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How adorable is that?
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They scaled from 0 to 30 properties-- don't worry, we will dig into how they
3:23
did that, in less than three years, and they've shared their journey on
3:26
their YouTube channel appropriately called The Real Estate Robinsons.
3:30
There's so much more about this couple that we need to share with you if
3:34
you haven't already heard of them.
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So with that, Tony, Sara, welcome to the show.
3:40
Tony: Yeah.
3:40
Thank you, ladies, so much for having us.
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I mean, I just got to say, this is such a full circle moment for me, and I've
3:46
shared this with you guys off air, but when we were getting started, there
3:49
just wasn't a lot of content out there about investing in short-term rentals.
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And your podcast was one of the first podcasts that I ever listened
3:57
to as we got our bearings about becoming short-term rental folks.
4:00
So thank you both for everything you've done for the community.
4:03
Thank you for what you've done for me and Sara, we appreciate you guys a ton.
4:06
Annette: I have to ask, have you left us a review?
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I haven't seen a review come through from The Real Estate Robinsons.
4:13
Tony: I got to go back and do that.
4:15
Annette: And listeners, follow the Real Estate Robinsons
4:18
lead and leave us a review.
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Shameless plug.
4:20
Tony: To be fair, I don't think I've left them for my own podcast yet either.
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And I don't think Sara has.
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Annette: We'll leave you one.
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You leave us one.
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That's how it works.
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Tony: There you go.
4:27
Annette: Okay.
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All of our listeners know how important reviews are from everyone everywhere.
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Sarah: She'll never stop the girl in marketing ever, which I appreciate.
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Tony, Sara, there is so much to unpack individually, together,
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so why don't we start where your journey started separately and
4:45
then how you brought them together.
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So you let us know who should start that off, Tony, Sara, and then we'll
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bring it into where we are today.
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Tony: It's hard to start it separately because Sara and I, we're 32 right now.
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We've been dating since we were 17.
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So there really isn't much of a separate.
5:01
Sara: You always say that.
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It was 16.
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We've been dating since we were 16.
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Tony: Go for it.
5:07
16, excuse me.
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Sarah: That year, it's a vital year.
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I feel you, Sara.
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Sara: Yes.
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Very critical.
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It was very heart-wrenching for me.
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That's when he broke the news that he got another girl pregnant.
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So it was very life-changing for me.
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So 16.
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Tony: Yeah.
5:19
So there's a lot to unpack
5:20
there.
5:21
That's the,
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Annette: um, after show.
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We'll do--
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Sara: Podcast.
5:26
Yes.
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Tony: Yeah.
5:27
Our high school--
5:28
Sarah: So good.
5:28
Tony: Years were a reality TV show.
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Um, but yeah, I mean, our whole adult life we've been together.
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Um, so there really isn't much separate, but what got us started on this journey,
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we always had entrepreneurial ambitions, especially me, and once we had climbed
5:45
the corporate ladder to a certain point and we had enough capital to actually
5:48
start investing in real estate, we pulled the trigger and we started off doing
5:52
long-term rentals like so many folks do.
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But at the time I had a pretty healthy six-figure salary at a job.
5:57
And that first short-term rental, we were making a 100 bucks a month in cash flow.
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And I was like, this is going to take forever.
6:02
No way that this is going to help me achieve what I want to do.
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So we made the transition to short-term in 2020, and then it took off from there.
6:09
Sara: Well, I feel like we do have different stories.
6:11
You kept saying we, but we had very different, um, journeys in our 20s.
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So we both went to college, majored in different areas, and right out
6:21
of college, Tony just took off.
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His career in the corporate world, he just excelled.
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It was like a rocket ship took off, and I was there watching my
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partner do so amazing in life.
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And I was like, oh my God, what the hell?
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Why am I not excelling at the same speed as him?
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So this went on for a few years, and then he started to get into
6:46
investing, and then he himself invested in long-term rentals, and that was
6:51
around the time when we got engaged.
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We're thinking about buying our own primary residents.
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So then that discussion started to become more of a team discussion.
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That is when I just took a step back and looked at what I was doing,
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and I felt like I wasn't bringing enough value to this couple ship.
7:08
So I was like, I need to do something more with myself.
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What can I do?
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And he decided to make the transition into short-term rentals at that point,
7:16
because I wasn't excited with a $100 he was bringing home with the long-term
7:20
rentals, and he was like, you are not happy with your current situation at work.
7:24
Tony: Which she was super unhappy at her job.
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And she had changed jobs a few times, and every time it was like she was in
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this toxic culture, and I was like, babe, you don't need to do that.
7:34
We can build our own thing.
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Sara: Right.
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I wasn't interested in long-term rentals, but then when he mentioned
7:38
the shift over to short-term rentals, I was like, I know Airbnbs.
7:43
I know short-term rentals.
7:44
I know guest experiences.
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Um, I come from the event space, so it just felt really
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good for me to dive into this.
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So that was that.
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And he hit send on my resignation email, and I think that is when
8:00
both of our worlds came together.
8:02
Yeah.
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Annette: Do you two still have any long-term rentals at all?
8:06
You completely-- bye.
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Closed the chapter there?
8:10
Okay.
8:10
Just interest.
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Tony: We didn't have that many.
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We had four.
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We had purchased four over the course of a year, and then when we
8:16
transitioned to short-term, we sold them all off in that following year.
8:19
Annette: Okay.
8:19
And then let's let our listeners-- Sarah, and I know this, but we
8:22
know that your primary residence is in California, correct?
8:25
Still.
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And were those long-term rentals in California also?
8:29
Tony: No.
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We started investing remotely.
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So we purchased all of our long-terms in, uh, Louisiana.
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So Shreveport, Louisiana, third biggest city in Louisiana, most folks don't
8:40
know about it, but actually had some family that lived out there, and that's
8:43
what introduced them to the market.
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And houses were inexpensive, got some really good debt, but yeah, we
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were managing remotely from there.
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Annette: Okay.
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And then where was the first short-term rental?
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Did you buy it on your own?
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Was it just an impulse buy, or did you really start to study the markets?
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Because I know, Tony, you're a numbers guy, and if we didn't say in
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the beginning, he hosts a podcast on BiggerPockets, it's Rookie Real Estate.
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And I know that you always go over the numbers.
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So talk to us about that first property.
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What numbers were you crunching?
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What year was it?
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Give us the
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details there.
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It's such
9:15
Tony: an ironic thing because we actually did zero analysis for
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that first short-term rental.
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It was 2020, and after I'd said long-term rentals isn't for me, my goal
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was to get into apartment syndication.
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But as someone who only had four long-term rentals, COVID had just
9:30
happened, people just weren't taking a first-time syndicator with very
9:33
little experience very seriously.
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So we were sitting on some capital.
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I had a business partner who was Sara's cousin actually, and he and
9:40
I were the ones who were trying to do the apartment syndication thing.
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And we were just-- it felt like we were banging our head against a wall.
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We were looking in Arizona.
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We were looking in Kentucky.
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We were looking at all these different markets, trying to get our inroads,
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and we just couldn't make any progress.
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Every deal that got sent to us was the worst deal you could possibly think of.
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So as we're on the sidelines in the syndication space, we have a friend,
10:01
uh, Alex Sabio, who I think you guys know as well, Alex bought a cabin
10:06
in the Smoky Mountains of Tennessee.
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He came to me and Sara's cousin and said, hey, I know you guys are thinking about
10:10
this apartment syndication thing, but I just bought this cabin in Tennessee
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and I think I'm going to crush it.
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I'd never even heard of the Smoky Mountains before.
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I didn't know where it was on the map.
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I didn't know what there was to do out there, but I trusted Alex, and he's
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another guy that's really big into the numbers, and when he said that he was
10:25
confident in what his cabin was going to do, we just followed him there.
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We found an amazing property right off the strip of the parkway in Tennessee.
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Bought it site unseen, and we didn't visit that property until
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the week that we took it live.
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Sarah: Okay.
10:38
I have so questions.
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Annette: I know.
10:40
No, this is high risk.
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I like it.
10:42
Sarah: I'm here for that.
10:42
Sara, what did you think when Tony was like, hey, I got this property
10:45
site unseen, I'm going to buy it because Alex said it's fine.
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Sara: Well, he had been doing that already in Louisiana, so I
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was like, girl, what the hell is Shreveport, Louisiana, first of all?
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I didn't even know what that was.
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So I just know him as a person and know that he does his due diligence first.
11:02
He would never put us in a financial risk.
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I know he's this high-risk taker, but I know he's not doing it in a
11:11
way that'll jeopardize ourselves.
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So I trust him completely.
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Tony: And I just want to comment on that because we get so many people who come
11:20
to us as a husband and wife duo and say, Tony, how do you get your spouse on board?
11:25
How did you get Sara to get along with this?
11:27
And honestly, it's what she just said where she says
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that I trust him completely.
11:31
And that's not something that I can put into someone else's
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marriage, is that trust.
11:36
And I think if that's not there, you got to ask yourself, well, why doesn't your
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spouse trust you when you say that you want to become a real estate investor?
11:44
Has there been maybe a history of you committing to things and not following
11:48
through, then now when you say, hey, I want to take our life savings and
11:51
put it into real estate, that they don't feel that that's a good move?
11:54
So that's an important part of what makes us successful.
11:57
Sara: Adorable.
11:58
Isn't he adorable you guys?
12:00
Annette: I love that you're offering that to the listeners because you just said it.
12:05
You can't infuse that trust.
12:07
That's something that you can listen to all the podcasts, you can read all the
12:10
books, you can even have all the money, but if the partner doesn't trust you-- and
12:14
I will say this, I don't have a partner but I trust my business partners, and I
12:20
trust the people that I do invest with.
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So that is something that, Sarah and I talk about this all the time,
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there are certain things that you cannot put into a spreadsheet.
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And I think that's something that Sarah, and us from the outside of
12:32
you, we see that in your relationship.
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And I can tell that's been really the main ingredient.
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If people are like, what's the secret sauce?
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I can say that that secret sauce, the trust between you two, it's very
12:44
apparent in any of our transactions and being in person with you,
12:48
online, and what you offer everyone in the short-term rental community.
12:51
So, uh, listeners, two things.
12:54
Uh, make sure you trust your partner.
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And yes, I said I don't have a partner, so if anybody knows anybody
12:58
good, you can send us the DMs.
13:01
Yes, Sarah.
13:02
Sarah gets--
13:02
Sarah: Oh my God.
13:02
This is an open invitation to--
13:04
Annette: It's a funnel.
13:05
I'm doing a top of a funnel ad here.
13:07
Sarah: That is my dream.
13:09
Yes.
13:11
Annette: But how many people ask you that though, Tony.
13:13
It sounds like it's a common question in your DMs and that
13:16
you get asked on the show.
13:17
Tony: All the time.
13:18
I think for a lot of married couples, especially if one of them
13:22
is drinking the Kool-Aid of becoming a real estate investor, there's this
13:25
desire to do it with your spouse.
13:28
So that question comes up anytime I'm somewhere in-person.
13:31
I can't count how many DMs I have.
13:33
So it is something that comes up quite a bit.
13:35
Sara: But even the husbands or wives come up to me and ask me, what was it for you?
13:40
What was that light bulb that went off in your brain?
13:43
Yeah, I know Tony mentioned you guys, that he listened to
13:45
podcasts and read all the books.
13:47
For me, I'm not that person.
13:48
I'm not a podcast, book consumer, but what I am is a people person.
13:54
So that light bulb didn't really go off, for me personally, until he took me to
13:59
in-person events, free meetups, these, um, short-term rental events, and meeting
14:04
people like you guys, and Alex Sabio, and other people that were regular humans.
14:09
I always thought people that invested were these wizard geniuses with a
14:14
ton of money that came from money.
14:16
And you have to be so smart, and just being in a room with people
14:20
that looked like me, talked like me, and had stories of trial and error
14:26
and success was so relatable to me, and I was like, I can do this too.
14:30
We can do this.
14:32
Annette: I love that.
14:32
He met you where you were like, let's go hang out.
14:34
Let's make it a date night.
14:35
Let's go to a meetup and hang out with other people.
14:39
Because then I think that's how people are easier, or the influence shines
14:44
through when it's more of an infusion and woven instead of ram down your throat.
14:50
I want to do this, and this is why.
14:51
It's like when you can hear the whispers all around you and see the social
14:54
proof, it's much more helpful, like you said, in a very realistic setting.
14:57
So love that.
14:59
Sarah: And how wonderful is that whole self-reflection thing, Sara?
15:01
I know for a while I had another career before real estate, and knowing that I
15:07
wanted to get out of that career and not knowing where I wanted to go, because
15:10
it's like once you know who you are and what you're good at, you need to lean
15:12
into that, not what you're not good at.
15:15
You need to find people to help you with what you're not good at.
15:18
That whole who not how situation.
15:21
So that's so wonderful, Sara.
15:22
Do you think you-- so it was Tony who helped you see who you were
15:26
outside of your role as an employee?
15:29
Sara: Yeah, it was Tony.
15:31
And then I think even once I realized that and I was completely into diving in
15:36
full throttle into this real estate space, into our short-term rental business, I
15:40
still had that moment of like, oh my God, but I don't know how to analyze deals.
15:45
I don't know how to find the best market.
15:47
And I was beating myself up for not knowing all the things
15:51
that Tony was really good at.
15:53
And he had to remind me again saying, babe, we're a duo here.
15:56
What I'm good at, you don't need to also be good at.
15:59
What you are good at is why I asked you to do this with me.
16:03
I'm not good at that.
16:04
So I understood that we complement each other really well, and that's why
16:08
we have a really good team together.
16:11
And yeah, for those of you guys listening, you don't have to know everything.
16:15
If you have a partner, whether it's a spouse or just a business
16:18
partner, if that other person excels in another area, let them run
16:24
with that and completely own that.
16:26
Don't beat yourself up for not knowing those skills as well.
16:29
Sarah: You're giving so many people permission, Sara, to be themselves,
16:33
lean into who they are, figure out what puzzle piece that fits into their grander
16:36
scheme, and then find the people who can help them with the other puzzle pieces.
16:39
So thanks for doing that.
16:40
You actually did that too, Sara, on stage at Level Up Your Listing Summit
16:44
this past-- when were we there?
16:45
February?
16:46
March?
16:47
And you said that from stage.
16:48
You're like, Tony does the-- this is Tony's role.
16:50
I do this.
16:51
And it was so refreshing to hear someone just say that, not trying to be this
16:55
person who does all the things, and knows all the things, and is a one-person show.
16:58
So I remember that from that conference and you saying that, and I loved it.
17:03
You're going to help so many people achieve what they want to achieve because
17:05
you're giving them permission to do that.
17:07
Not that they need the permission, but we all like to have a leader to board with.
17:11
Sara: Yeah.
17:11
I feel like a lot of us in this space, we feel like imposter syndrome.
17:15
You see big people that are-- I get intimidated by you guys or Avery Carl,
17:21
women that are just badasses on their own.
17:25
And I'm just like, I can't be that.
17:26
And I'm like, I don't know how to do that stuff, but I'm my own badass in my own.
17:31
Annette: Yes.
17:32
Absolutely.
17:32
Sara: I feel like that is a reminder that we all need to hype ourselves up.
17:36
Sarah: A 100%.
17:37
Annette: We're your hype girls.
17:38
Sarah: Yeah.
17:38
We are your hype girls, Sara, because-- yeah, you are really great at engaging.
17:42
The minute we met you, we immediately felt like your best friend.
17:47
And ask Annette, I don't trust anyone ever.
17:50
So you were just immediately warm, and welcoming, and open, and I
17:52
knew that I could be friends with you, and that is such a superpower.
17:56
So you know that now, and I'll tell you again.
17:59
You guys scaled from 0 to 30 properties in three years
18:03
during/after a global pandemic.
18:07
I mean, how?
18:10
Who?
18:12
Annette: Well, as we're talking about that, did you get bit by the bug at
18:15
the Smoky Mountains, not a tick, but the bug, this short-term rental bug,
18:19
did it just bite you immediately?
18:21
Sara: This bug, especially for me, you guys, I was just down afterwards.
18:26
My eyes, I'll never forget that weekend we took that property live.
18:30
We were like-- I was shocked.
18:32
I was like, hell yes, I am in.
18:35
We are doing this.
18:37
Delete my resume.
18:38
I'm never going on LinkedIn again.
18:41
Tony: It was such an eye-opening experience because we went from these
18:43
long-term rentals that were making a couple hundred bucks a month, and our
18:47
first short-term rental, so that cabin that we bought site unseen, in the
18:51
first 12 months that we owned it, we did a little over $150,000 in revenue.
18:56
I think it was 157.
18:57
We profited $84,000 that first 12 months that we--
19:02
And we only spent $65,000 down payment, closing costs, and
19:06
furnishings, all in at 65k.
19:09
And we profited over 80.
19:11
So when we saw that, we were like, okay, this is a strategy
19:13
that we need to go into.
19:14
Now, obviously, 2020, 2021 was a big boom year in a lot of these
19:17
vacation markets, and we did 136 in 2022 with that same cabin.
19:22
So it came down a little bit, but we were still at a 90 plus percent cash-on-cash
19:25
return even after we came back down.
19:28
So it was like a drug almost.
19:31
Sara: Yeah.
19:31
Annette: Okay.
19:32
That first house, did you end up buying that with the cousin
19:36
or was it just you and Sarah?
19:38
Was place number one with a partner?
19:41
Tony: Yeah.
19:41
So I'll give you the structure of how our business is set up.
19:45
So me, Sara, and her cousin, his name's Omid, O-M-I-D.
19:49
The three of us make up our core business, and all of our short-term rental
19:54
dealings, we've done together so far.
19:56
So we bought that first cabin in Tennessee with just three of us.
20:00
About a month later, we bought our first one in Joshua Tree.
20:03
And then, I think a month after that one, we bought our second one in Joshua Tree.
20:07
So by fall of 2020, we had three short-term rentals in
20:10
the span of a few months.
20:12
Andit was just with capital we had saved up from our jobs
20:14
and things that we were doing.
20:14
And I got a loan in my name, he got one in his name, and then I
20:18
think his wife got one in her name.
20:19
So we were just using whatever we could to get the best rates.
20:23
But then after that third property, we hadn't even set it up yet, two days
20:27
before Christmas, 2020, I got a call from my job telling me that I'm fired.
20:32
We had started this short-term rental.
20:34
Sara: I had left my job to do this.
20:36
Tony: Sarah left her job.
20:36
Sarah: I didn't know this.
20:37
Annette: I didn't know you got canned.
20:39
I got canned too.
20:39
Tony: I got canned two days before Christmas, 2020.
20:42
So after that happened, this high six-figure salary goes away.
20:46
My ability to get approved for additional mortgages goes away.
20:49
The cash that we do have saved up, it was supposed to go towards buying more real
20:52
estate, now this is our nest egg now.
20:54
This is our safety net to hold this over.
20:57
Um, so we had to rethink our strategy in terms of how are we going to
21:01
continue to scale if Tony doesn't have capital and Tony doesn't have
21:04
the ability to approve for a mortgage?
21:06
So at that point, we had already been building our track record in the
21:11
community of real estate investors, and we decided to lean into that and to
21:15
leverage the network that we had built to find other investors to fund the
21:20
majority of our purchases moving forward.
21:23
So I lost my job.
21:24
We had three properties.
21:25
Over the next 12 months, we added another 13.
21:28
We finished that following year with 15 or 16 properties, I think,
21:31
at the end of that next year.
21:33
And all of that was funded through other investors that we had connected
21:37
with that funded our purchases.
21:38
AD MARKER
21:39
Annette: Okay.
21:40
If you can give us some visibility, is each home one other partner?
21:44
Is it a multitude of partners?
21:46
And how does that work out?
21:48
Tony: Yeah.
21:48
Majority are just one person.
21:50
We have two properties where it's like a collective of people.
21:54
Um, but we like to deal with one person just because it's
21:56
easier that way, honestly.
21:57
And even for the ones where there's multiple partners,
21:59
we only talk to one person.
22:00
That was a requirement for us.
22:02
Annette: Ooh.
22:02
I like that.
22:04
Tony: And every time we do a partnership, we uncover something that
22:09
we need to change for the next one.
22:11
And the way that we've structured-- and I'm sure it's the same for you.
22:14
For y'all is co-hosting.
22:16
Every time you bring on a new client, you identify something like,
22:18
we're never going to do that again.
22:20
Sara: Yeah.
22:20
Annette: Okay, we have to pause though, because let's make this super juicy.
22:24
Can you give us three, or whatever you feel most important, someone that's
22:29
listening, what is something you would never ever do again in a partnership?
22:34
Tony: I would never rehab a property with a partner.
22:37
That was the situation.
22:38
And I love these partners, and they're fantastic people, but I think it
22:41
was too many cooks in the kitchen.
22:43
Annette: Okay.
22:43
Tony: And it was me, Sarah, and Omid, so it's already three of us on
22:46
our side, and then these partners, uh, there were four of them.
22:50
It was two couples, two husbands and wives, and two of them, it was their
22:54
first real estate investment ever.
22:56
So when you go into a full rehab, there's just so many opinions that go into that.
23:02
And we had set that project up.
23:04
We found the deal.
23:05
We analyzed it, and the goal was that we would manage that rehab, and then we
23:09
would manage that property long-term.
23:10
They brought the capital, and we'd split everything down the middle.
23:13
So it'd be a 50/50 split.
23:14
So we have 50% equity in this property that we put up no capital in, and is
23:17
a great deal for us, but once we got to the end of the rehab, I had to sit
23:21
down, and that whole experience made me feel like an employee again, because I
23:25
felt like I was answering to these four people instead of us being a partnership.
23:29
So I sat down with Sarah and Omid and I said, look guys, I know that we just
23:32
spent four months managing this rehab--
23:34
Sara: I was like, what?
23:36
Tony: I don't think I want to continue this partnership.
23:38
And I told them, I was like, hey guys, we'll help you get set up.
23:40
We'll create the listing.
23:42
We'll get all your software and everything set up, but once we get you off and
23:46
rolling, we're going to walk away.
23:47
We don't need any compensation.
23:48
We don't need any equity.
23:50
You take the property, and you make it happen.
23:52
But it's that process of trying to manage a rehab with that partner, it
23:56
was more than what we wanted to do.
23:57
Sara: I would say, for you guys listening, if you clearly state in the agreement
24:04
what those decision-making moments look like-- we didn't list anything
24:10
out, so it was just a free for all.
24:12
All seven of us had opinions and that just created a lot of chaos.
24:17
So if you do want to rehab with a partner, I would just clearly outline its someone
24:22
from your team and someone from their team, or however you want to set it up.
24:26
But I think that is where we messed up is that we didn't outline where the
24:32
opinions on all of the small things like, what kind of knobs, what kind of tile.
24:36
Yeah.
24:37
That created a lot of headache.
24:38
Annette: Oh.
24:39
So you pivoted.
24:39
Sarah: You fired fast.
24:41
Annette: Like boom, move on.
24:42
Close door.
24:43
Open more.
24:44
Clearly, opened a lot more.
24:46
Okay.
24:46
That was juicy.
24:47
Can you give us one or two others?
24:48
Never again.
24:49
Tony: I think, uh, another big one is, and this leads into what Sara said, is
24:54
just being exceptionally clear upfront about the division of responsibilities.
24:59
So if we enter into a partnership with someone, what are the duties that
25:04
we're going to take care of that we do not need to consult that person on?
25:07
Uh, and then what are the things that if it's a major thing that we
25:11
do need to consult with them on?
25:12
And when we first started, we didn't have that clearly defined.
25:15
And as we went through that process, we started to say, okay, we're not
25:18
going to ask them what they think about the mural that we're painting at the
25:21
property because that's a design step.
25:24
That's something that Sara's really good at.
25:26
We don't need the partner's insight on how we're going to design the property.
25:29
Um, so just little things like that.
25:31
So now the only time you really need to reach out to the partner is if there's
25:33
a major capital expense, so like if we need to, uh, I don't know, replace a
25:38
roof or HVAC system goes out, something like that, we're consulting with them.
25:42
But anything that's daily operational task, we have full control, full
25:46
say over what that looks like.
25:47
Annette: Love it.
25:48
Thank you for sharing that because that's hours, months, and years of
25:53
lessons boiled down into a seven-minute--
25:56
Sarah: Listeners, you're welcome.
25:57
Annette: I didn't mention how many headaches and probably there might
26:01
have been some words exchanged between a few people or both of you.
26:06
Next question is, the deals with your partners, what does the
26:12
structure look like as far as how often you're being paid out?
26:16
What are the returns?
26:17
Is there an idea?
26:18
Is it quarterly?
26:19
Is it monthly?
26:20
Is it yearly?
26:21
Is it, hey, we'll just work on this together?
26:24
Do you have a system down there?
26:25
Are they all different?
26:26
Tony: Totally.
26:26
So in terms of the structure, we have a few different
26:29
structures that we've leveraged.
26:31
When we first started, that very first partnership, it was a 75/25 split.
26:36
So our partner put up 75% of the capital.
26:39
We put up 25% of the capital.
26:41
They kept 75% of the equity.
26:43
We kept 25%, but then we also got a 15% management fee for
26:47
doing the work on a daily basis.
26:48
And we tried that model out for a little bit, and then we just
26:51
went to a straight equity split.
26:53
So partners are going to bring all the capital, they're going to carry the debt.
26:55
We're going to split it down the middle.
26:56
So partner gets 50%.
26:58
We get 50%.
26:59
And I'd say the majority of our partnerships are on
27:01
that structure right now.
27:03
And it's just been the simplest.
27:04
So we don't take management fees, but we get that equity both in terms
27:06
of equity growth on the property, and then we also get it in terms
27:10
of cash flow on a regular basis.
27:12
Annette: Nice.
27:13
And then I have to ask, because listeners, this is the most
27:17
important thing on the deal.
27:19
What's your exit strategy on these?
27:21
If it's time for a property to sell, or one of the partners needs
27:24
to exit, what's that look like?
27:27
Do you have first right of refusal?
27:28
Is it you just both have to vote on it?
27:30
What does that-- has that happened yet, and what does that look like?
27:34
Tony: Yeah, it hasn't happened yet.
27:36
And when we talk about iterating what that agreement with our partners
27:39
looks like, it was something that we started to get concerned about.
27:42
It's just like, hey, what happens if we get into a partnership with someone
27:44
that maybe they seem good on day 1, but on day 365 they're someone different?
27:48
Or what happens if they're unhappy with us for whatever reason?
27:50
So what we added, um, and I want to say about half of our JV agreements are
27:55
like this right now, is that the default term for the partnership is five years.
27:59
So unless both partners agree to extend that partnership,
28:03
we have to sell the property.
28:05
So that way it forces us to make sure that we're performing at a high level if we
28:09
want to keep that property, and it forces the partner to be a good partner if they
28:12
want to continue working with us as well.
28:14
So about half of our partnerships are on that five-year hold, and that it
28:18
only renews for another 12-month period.
28:20
So then every 12 months, there afterwards, we have to renew that.
28:23
For all of our partnerships that are not on that model, it
28:25
is a right of first refusal.
28:27
So if either one of us wants out, we have to offer to the person
28:30
first and get it appraised.
28:31
I think we have to get three appraisals to assume the value, and there's some
28:34
things we have to do to make that happen.
28:35
But the five-year piece I think was our best solution to that.
28:40
Annette: I don't want to say it in such a-- it's a choose your own adventure.
28:43
And that's what I love, is you can create these deals with
28:47
whatever works for the partners.
28:49
And I think that's why so many people love short-term rentals because they can design
28:54
the property the way that they want.
28:55
It's a choose your own adventure on the way you want to design it with the
28:58
way that you purchase the property, with the way that you use the property.
29:01
But I love that you're being so open with us.
29:04
I feel like Sarah-- I'm taking notes because it's like, how do
29:06
we want to structure future deals?
29:07
So, um, listeners--
29:09
Sarah: Add five-year term.
29:10
I'm taking voice memos.
29:12
Annette: And then we're going through all this, I know, because
29:15
our listeners are detailed.
29:18
How in the heck are you keeping all of this straight?
29:23
This is a lot of monies.
29:25
This is a lot of guests.
29:26
This is a lot of partners, and my head is spinning just trying to think of all
29:31
the dotting the i's and crossing the t's, and the checks, and the accounts.
29:35
What's your team look like?
29:37
How is your head not swiveling off?
29:39
Tony: Yeah, so the heads do swivel a little bit.
29:43
Sara: Especially the first two years, girl, I'm like, I don't
29:45
know how we didn't end up divorced.
29:48
Yeah.
29:49
Tony: Yeah.
29:49
We were grinding.
29:50
2021, after I got fired, those 12 months, me and Sara, we closed
29:56
on 15 properties that year.
29:58
We closed inside of 15 properties that year.
30:00
So it's like every single week something is happening.
30:05
And we were closing three properties at a time, so it was a grind, but I think we're
30:09
in a bit more of a steady state right now.
30:11
Sara: Yeah.
30:12
For sure.
30:12
Thank God.
30:12
Tony: But the way that we have it set up, we don't have LLC set up for
30:15
every property because that would get expensive from a bookkeeping
30:18
and accounting perspective.
30:20
What we've done is we've set up joint ventures for every single partnership, and
30:23
every single property has its own account.
30:25
We use Relay, and we love Relay as our business bank.
30:28
And so every single property has its own opex account.
30:31
It has its own reserves account.
30:33
And then what I do, just like profit first, on the 25th of every month we have
30:37
distribution amounts that are set up.
30:39
So some properties we're at 60% that's getting held for opex, 5% goes
30:43
towards, uh, reserves, remaining 35% gets distributed based on the splits
30:47
that we have with our partners.
30:48
Some properties are doing really well.
30:50
They're 45% going into opex, 5% going into reserves, and 50% getting
30:55
dispersed as a profit distribution.
30:57
So we do that every single month on the 25th for every
31:00
single property with a partner.
31:01
Sara: And we send pretty thorough emails to the partners on a monthly basis giving
31:06
them a report of occupancy, revenue, any issues that we needed to correct
31:12
that month, reviews we're fighting.
31:14
So we keep the partners in loop on a monthly basis, right?
31:17
Tony: Mm-hmm.
31:18
Sara: Yeah.
31:18
Annette: I want to go back to where Sara and Sarah really connected
31:24
the first day that we met, because I feel like, Tony, we've given--
31:27
and listeners, this happens a lot.
31:29
We've given this highlight reel of the revenue, and the growth, changing of
31:34
lives, but I want to let the listeners know when Sarah and Sara met, it was
31:39
during a conference in Nashville and Sara, I think this was during your
31:43
hyper-growth stage, and, um, Sara was doing all of the guest relations.
31:48
And when I say she was-- listeners, you're going to feel her pain.
31:53
She was feeling it.
31:54
She was in the depths of the guest relations, and her and Sarah were just
31:58
chatting that out because they were talking about inspectors and the role.
32:01
And so Sara, let's talk about the truth of that growth.
32:05
What was that for you, and the designing, and trying to get things ordered,
32:08
and then dealing with the guests, and how that was to manage that from the
32:13
hospitality side, not the finance side.
32:16
Sara: I mean, it was so exciting for me.
32:19
Leaving my job, I feel like we took a leap of faith, and then when Tony got
32:23
fired, we had a really tough discussion.
32:26
That day, I'll never forget it, we're like, well, should we both
32:29
go and find jobs, what do we do?
32:31
And he just looked at me and was like, what if this is just a sign for us to
32:35
really buckle down and bet on ourselves?
32:37
Let's give ourselves 12 months.
32:39
It's the start of the new year.
32:40
Let's really grind it out and see where this takes us.
32:43
And I was like, okay, I'm in.
32:45
So that was our mentality the next year.
32:49
And, um, yeah, like Tony said, it was just setup after setup,
32:54
guest issues after next issue.
32:55
And it was just this new world I got thrown into, and felt like I
33:01
was just catching fires after fires.
33:05
So I realized that, girl, I'm pretty good at this.
33:09
I'm a multitasker.
33:12
I didn't drown.
33:13
I feel like a lot of people would, but it was a moment for me when I
33:18
realized this isn't sustainable.
33:21
I know Tony, and I know he's going to want another 15 properties every quarter,
33:27
and at this rate, I will notsurvive.
33:29
Annette: Every quarter.
33:29
I love it
33:30
Sara: Yeah.
33:30
I will not survive at this pace.
33:32
I've been good now, but I know he's not going to want to stop so we need
33:37
to figure out systems and processes to remove myself, to work on the business,
33:43
not in the business the way I had been.
33:45
And it wasn't until going to conferences, like I said, that this light bulb really
33:50
went off for me, and meeting other really experienced operators like yourselves.
33:55
I'll never forget that conversation.
33:57
And it was that conversation with the both of you.
34:00
I'll never forget it when you guys were like, oh yeah, we
34:02
have inspectors that go for us.
34:05
And yeah, they do everything.
34:07
I was like, wait, what?
34:07
Annette: Okay.
34:08
First of all, I'm going to defend us.
34:09
We do not sound like that, but I'm sure when Sara heard us at the happy
34:14
hour after party, it came across like that, when someone's like, oh
34:18
yeah, there's a guest relations--
34:19
Sarah: It's so easy
34:20
Annette: Personal inspector, on the side texting, what the heck's going on?
34:24
So we're glad we sounded like that.
34:26
Sara: You guys just figured it out.
34:29
Your operations were 10 times more developed than what ours was.
34:34
So I'll never forget just being mind blown that there are operators that
34:39
were treating this-- I think for me at that point, I didn't even realize
34:43
this was a business we had created.
34:45
It felt more of a side gig that we were just hustling, figuring out.
34:50
And then it was meeting people, like you guys, that are treating it like a
34:54
true business and plugging these people in to help you run this business.
34:59
You can't run a business as a solo person.
35:02
It was that moment that I realized, oh my God, I think we have a
35:06
freaking business that we created, and we need to start plugging these
35:10
people in before I lose my shit.
35:12
Because there's just no way.
35:14
Annette: Mm-hmm.
35:15
What was the first thing that you implemented that took you from feeling
35:19
like a side hustle to a business?
35:23
Sara: I don't know.
35:24
I think improving our tech stack was a big one for me.
35:27
Tony: I think for me, it was just as we started to plug people in.
35:30
Because, like Sara said, I think up until 15 properties, it was really
35:35
Sara, me, and Omid, and that was it.
35:38
Sara: Girl, not you and Omid.
35:39
It was me.
35:41
Tony: I mean just overall.
35:43
Everyone that was on our team.
35:45
Annette: Uh, I love it.
35:46
Sara: So the way this partnership worked is Tony and Omid were the find
35:51
the partner, find the property people.
35:53
And once those got locked in, they passed the baton to me, and I was the
35:57
set up the property, get the design, guest management, and they were knocking
36:01
these three partnerships down at a time and handing three batons over to me.
36:06
Annette: Fiery flame batons.
36:08
Sara: Yeah.
36:09
Tony: Yeah.
36:09
So I think for me it was adding the right people into the system.
36:13
So we have a team that does all of our property set up now.
36:15
So set up now for Sara's, one afternoon she'll go out and she'll put plants and
36:20
point out all the things they need to fix.
36:22
Sara: Right.
36:22
Tony: Before it was me and her in a U-Haul in four days in Joshua
36:25
Tree setting up a property.
36:27
So I think getting the people in place on the setup side.
36:29
We have three VAs that work pretty much around the clock now to do
36:32
most of our guest communication.
36:34
We have a property inspector on our cleaning staff now that helped with--
36:37
Sara: All thanks to you guys.
36:38
Yes.
36:38
Tony: The inspections.
36:39
Uh, we have a revenue manager that we hired that's overseas to help
36:42
oversee all of our price labs.
36:44
So just plugging in the people, and now it's a matter of holding them
36:47
accountable to following the processes.
36:50
And then identifying where the processes are broken, giving them
36:53
feedback, fixing those processes, and just iterating on top of that.
36:56
Sarah: Trust but verify.
36:58
So you guys have built something really impressive.
37:01
We are now in the very real 2023.
37:05
We had the boom of 2021, 2022, which was great.
37:10
What are you looking forward to?
37:11
Are we still growing at 15 properties a quarter, 30?
37:15
Where do we want to go?
37:17
And then once you answer that, where you want to go, how are
37:20
you going to achieve those goals?
37:23
Tony: So Sara always makes fun of me because I have these
37:26
unrealistic, somewhat, goals that I'm trying to achieve.
37:30
But I want to get us to a billion-dollar-company.
37:32
So I want--
37:33
Sara: Say one more time, Tony J.
37:36
Annette: For the people in the back.
37:37
Tony: Yeah.
37:38
Annette: Beep, for the people in the back.
37:40
Tony: Yeah.
37:40
I want us to control a billion dollars worth real estate.
37:43
And I say that number, and to so many people, it sounds like this
37:47
unrealistic or unattainable goal, but I know it's something that's
37:52
achievable because I have people that I know in my circle that are marching
37:56
towards that number super aggressively.
37:58
So Brandon Turner, he's a mentor of mine, and they're $800 million in
38:02
assets under management, and they've done that in four and a half years.
38:05
AJ Osborne, someone else that I look up to in the world of real
38:08
estate investing, they're close.
38:10
They're right behind Brandon marching towards a billion bucks.
38:12
So I see these guys that I know, that I feel that I'm just as capable of, that
38:16
we are, that our team is, and I know that we can march towards that as well.
38:20
So we're slowing down a little bit on the single family acquisitions
38:24
for now, and we're trying to focus more on larger commercial properties.
38:27
So, uh, we have a campground that we're working on closing
38:30
right now in West Virginia.
38:32
A big goal of mine is to buy at least one hotel before the year is over.
38:35
We're looking on some bigger deals now to try and get towards that goal.
38:38
Annette: Love it.
38:39
Have you reverse engineered that number?
38:44
Tony: No.
38:45
So the main goal for me right now is just to get the first big commercial deal.
38:49
That's just proof of concept.
38:52
Annette: Take it down.
38:52
Tony: Yeah.
38:53
And make sure that we get that first one done, and then we can really
38:56
systematize and grow it out from there.
38:57
Annette: Well, you know we're not far from West Virginia, so Sarah
39:00
and I can come down and camp it out.
39:02
Tony: No, check it out.
39:03
Yeah.
39:03
We're building some really cool geodesic domes.
39:06
Sarah: Ooh.
39:08
Annette: We would love it.
39:10
Can you tell our listeners, where can they find more out about you guys?
39:14
Where's the best place for them to learn about the campgrounds and the hotels?
39:21
Tony: Probably on social.
39:22
Uh, we link back to everything else on social.
39:24
So I'm @tonyjrobinson on Instagram.
39:26
My wife is @sararadrobinson.
39:29
And then we're, uh, The Real Estate Robinsons on YouTube.
39:32
Sara: Wait, I just want to add something before we wrap.
39:34
For those of you that are looking for partnerships, we didn't touch on this.
39:37
How do you find partners?
39:39
I think that is something that Tony and I have really done well at, is just
39:44
showing the world what we're doing, what we want to do through social media.
39:48
So be your own advocate and blast yourself on whatever platform you are
39:53
most comfortable with, and that is how you will attract your own potential investors.
39:58
So start posting today if you are not already doing
40:00
that.
40:01
I'm so glad you
40:02
Tony: brought that up because people look at us and like, well, of course,
40:04
you guys are finding partners because you're The Real Estate Robinsons, and
40:07
you have BiggerPockets, and YouTube, and Instagram, but we have students
40:10
in our program who have 1,200 people following them on Instagram, and just
40:15
the act of them sharing their journey.
40:18
Not even because there are these big faces or big names, just the fact that
40:21
they're sharing what they're doing.
40:22
Sara: Hey, I'm Travis.
40:24
I'm walking through my property today.
40:25
And now they have people reaching out to them saying, oh man, I
40:27
didn't know you do short-term.
40:29
If you ever want someone to fund or to give you some money for your--
40:32
and it's literally happening to people in our program right now, and
40:35
they don't need the big following.
40:36
Annette: Mm-hmm.
40:37
Sarah: Because those partnerships are built on proof of concept.
40:40
And that concept is you with the human, that's what people
40:42
are investing in really.
40:43
Yes, the properties and the returns, but it has to be
40:46
conducted by someone they trust.
40:48
And no one--
40:49
Annette: How many partners have you turned down?
40:51
Are there partnerships that you've turned down?
40:53
Tony: Yeah.
40:53
I mean, I can say on the single family side, we only have, I think 17 partners,
41:00
somewhere around there, and we've probably had over a 1,000 people fill
41:03
out that form to become a partner.
41:05
So I mean-- yeah.
41:06
Annette: You're highly selective.
41:08
Sarah: You should be.
41:09
Tony: We try.
41:09
Annette: Yeah, for sure.
41:10
Sarah: Yeah.
41:10
You should be.
41:12
It's a big-- not to take it lightly either, these types of partnerships.
41:16
Don't be afraid of them.
41:17
Go for it.
41:18
And you got to sometimes just trial by error.
41:20
But also don't take them lightly.
41:22
It's like any other marriage.
41:23
You have to date a little bit, or not, I don't know.
41:27
You do you.
41:28
Yeah.
41:28
Any other parting words you have before we sign off?
41:31
I mean, I could talk to you guys all day, but we got to
41:33
leave the people wanting more.
41:34
Sara: Just thank you guys.
41:35
Seriously, you both have played such a critical role in both of our journeys,
41:41
separately and in separate times.
41:44
So just thank you guys, like Tony said, for all that you do to the
41:47
short-term rental community, seriously.
41:49
I hope you guys know how valuable the both of you are, and how
41:53
treasured and loved you guys are.
41:54
Annette: Thank you.
41:55
Sarah: Thank you so much.
41:56
Annette: Maybe we can partner together on something.
41:58
Tony: Let's do it.
41:59
Sarah: It would be good.
42:00
Annette: It would be fun.
42:01
Tony: Yeah.
42:01
Let's do it.
42:03
Annette: So good.
42:04
You guys, thank you so much.
42:06
This is not the last time that you will see Thanks for Visiting and The Real
42:10
Estate Robinsons together, either on the airwaves or if you're watching in-person.
42:15
This is the first of-- well, we've already been together a few times, so
42:19
we'll keep this relationship going.
42:20
Tony: Absolutely.
42:21
We're looking forward to it.
42:22
Annette: Thank you so much.
42:22
Sarah: And we will put all of The Real Estate Robinsons, all the things that they
42:25
do and are promoting in the show notes.
42:27
So please check those out.
42:28
They are chock full of opportunities to engage with the
42:31
Robinsons and learn from them.
42:33
So again, thank you so much.
42:34
With that, I am Sarah Karakaian.
42:36
Annette: I'm Annette Grant, and together we are--
42:37
Both Annette & Sarah: Thanks for Visiting.
42:38
Sarah: Talk to you next time.