Latest / The Overland Journal Podcast / Nena Barlow talks essential skills for backcountry overlanding

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Nena Barlow talks essential skills for backcountry overlanding · The Overland Journal Podcast

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the Overland Journal podcast. I'm your host,
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Scott Brady, and I am here with my illustrious co host,
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Matt Scott.
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: I am sitting in the general vicinity.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: Who does have some news he's going to share with
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: us in a couple of minutes. So well excited to
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: hear about it.
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: News actually news on two fronts that are very significant.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: Okay, all right, so you'll have to stand by for that.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: The most important person in the room is Nina Barlow.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: Nina has been in this industry for nearly thirty years
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: and has literally changed the landscape of much of what
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: we do, particularly around events and for wil drive training
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: and vehicle rentals. So her business is expansive and services
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: our industry in many different ways. Of course, with all
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: of that time, you've gained so much experience and knowledge.
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: So we're going to ask her a bunch of questions today,
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  Speaker 1: not only about how did she get to this point,
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: but the lessons that Nina has learned along the way. So, Nina,
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: thank you so much for being on the podcast.
• 0:57
  Speaker 3: Thanks for having me, my honor.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: We're going to take a brief break and we will
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: be right back. This week's episode is supported in part
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: by Icamper to make innovative hardshell and soft sided riof
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: tents that are designed to survive long term overland use.
• 1:13
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• 1:21
  Speaker 1: fitment of crossbars for carrying bikes and kayaks. Their Skycamp
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  Speaker 1: shell tent in the footprint of a much smaller clamshell model.
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  Speaker 1: vehicles where rackspace is dedicated to other systems. I Camper
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• 1:47
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• 1:50
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I mean, I think back on all of
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: the times that we've done cool little projects together, including
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: I think we got wrangled into a Jelopnik winching video
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: at one point in.
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: Time, totally off the cup.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: It was totally like, hey, guys can get can we
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: get you guys stuck and shoot a video?
• 2:06
  Speaker 3: Sure?
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  Speaker 2: Right?
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: We figured it out. That was really fun. Yeah, We've
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: definitely seen each other at a lot of events, and
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: I've heard your stories of success. So one of the
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  Speaker 1: things that I wanted to ask was how did you
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: get from wherever you were living in the country? So
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: maybe share a little bit about where you grew up
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  Speaker 1: and what were some of the experiences that you had
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: that led you to wanting to become a full drive
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: trainer and expert.
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  Speaker 3: So I grew up in the desert outside of Palm Springs, California. Okay,
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: graduate of Palm Springs High School. I won't say it.
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: Was just a few years ago, right, It.
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: Was a thousand acre ranch and so four wheeling was
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: just part of daily life really, and I think it
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  Speaker 3: was maybe sometime in my twenties that I realized that
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  Speaker 3: people did this just for fun. I remember my dad
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  Speaker 3: had an early Bronco and if he showed up, you know,
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  Speaker 3: to pick me up at school, you know, when I
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: was a teenager, that was just, oh my gosh, I
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: was so embarrassing.
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  Speaker 1: And what you would give to have that car now?
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  Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, there was when he sold it, there was
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: rending of garments and nashing of teeth. Family definitely, you know,
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  Speaker 3: outdoor industry became part of my life when I started
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  Speaker 3: involved with the hot air balloon business. Okay Springs, because
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  Speaker 3: I could drive a truck and trailer and I could
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  Speaker 3: four wheel ground crew stuff there. And then I went
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: away to college. Was still doing that.
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: And what did you go to college for?
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  Speaker 3: I went to college for sports and recreation management. Well,
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: and that's what you do with a coaching certification.
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  Speaker 1: So cool.
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  Speaker 3: I got college credit for rafting.
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  Speaker 2: I did not.
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  Speaker 1: I was clearly on the wrong degree program.
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  Speaker 2: I went to school in Peoria, Illinois, whyfting.
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  Speaker 3: When I came back, I knew I didn't want to
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  Speaker 3: go back to southern California. At that point, I had
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  Speaker 3: had family in My family had owned property in Sedona
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  Speaker 3: since the seventies, and so I kind of knew that's
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  Speaker 3: where I'd end up. Just went to work and as
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  Speaker 3: a jeep tour guide the jeep tour business, which has
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  Speaker 3: of course been booming since the sixties. There.
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  Speaker 1: I didn't know it was that long.
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, pink Jeet started. Don Pratt was actually realtor,
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  Speaker 3: would take people around in a jeep, so excited about
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: the area real estate, and he realized that the taking
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: them around was more of the attraction than actually selling
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: the real estate, of course both Now, sure and I
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: ended up you know, that was just kind of getting
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: in the jeep tour business, and jeep business was kind
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: of something to do until I settled down, you know,
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  Speaker 3: got a real job.
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  Speaker 2: Sure came an adult so overrated.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, so here we are, you know, thirty years later
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  Speaker 3: that just that whole settling down and getting a real job.
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  Speaker 2: Thing growing up is in fact overrated.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, an optional it is. You get to make choices.
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  Speaker 2: I never had a real job ever, It's true, right,
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  Speaker 2: not that I'll admit to.
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  Speaker 3: I wouldn't change it. I started my own business in
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  Speaker 3: two thousand and four after working for other companies for
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  Speaker 3: about ten years. I had a lot of great bosses,
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: and then I had a lot of the bosses that
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: we would say, you know, you learned a lot what
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  Speaker 3: not to do. Oh sure, So those are some of
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  Speaker 3: the earliest lessons. And that's and that's no question. Part
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  Speaker 3: of what forms us as ontopreneurs is those experiences where
• 5:01
  Speaker 3: you see this is an opportunity or they're not doing
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: it in this way. And I think that that's a
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  Speaker 3: really interesting way to go about it. Now, when you
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: were on the ranch.
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  Speaker 1: So this is kind of a fun thing about you
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  Speaker 1: that I didn't know about the cattle ranch because my
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: family had a cattle ranch in Arizona, just outside of
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: Casa Grande. I learned a lot about driving off road
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: on the ranch because it was just part of your job.
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  Speaker 1: So you didn't want to get stuck, and there were
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  Speaker 1: some really practical The vehicles were always aired down, not
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: that low, but they were always aired down in some capacity,
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: and you kind of learned momentum a little bit. But
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: you didn't want to beat the trucks up because then
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  Speaker 1: you had to you know, you were in trouble you
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: if you broke something, So you strike that really fine balance.
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  Speaker 1: What were some of the things that you learned about
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: vehicles or also I suspect you were riding horses at
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: the time. What were some of the things that were
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: takeaways from you from the family ran don't get caught,
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  Speaker 1: that's perfect.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, there's some things that we did that certainly is
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  Speaker 3: I had cousins and it was definitely, oh, don't tell
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  Speaker 3: our dads. We got to figure out how to get
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: it ourselves out of this.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's good advice. So all that are listening, don't
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  Speaker 1: get caught, right. So what did you guys use out
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: on the ranch for vehicles with the mostly full sized
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: trucks and things like that.
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  Speaker 3: Yes, mostly mostly full size heavy duty trucks, and of
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  Speaker 3: course you know the tractors, and we had the Bronco, Yeah,
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: the six Bronco twos.
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  Speaker 1: And then you were probably towing stock trailers around in
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: the sand and through washes and everything else. I mean,
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  Speaker 1: it's amazing how much you learn about driving. For me,
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  Speaker 1: it was definitely on the ranch, and then when I
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: was working out at the very m Goldwater and doing patrol,
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  Speaker 1: it's like I was always in full drive, and I
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  Speaker 1: just it became was doing it eight hours a day,
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  Speaker 1: every single day. And it's amazing what you learn about
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  Speaker 1: just the subtleties of driving in that. And do you
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: find that was the case for you? Yeah?
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  Speaker 3: Absolutely. Sand we had a lot of sand, and we
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  Speaker 3: had a lot of washes. One of our don't let
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  Speaker 3: our dads catch us stories was I had the you know,
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  Speaker 3: the long bed crew cab, and I knew just enough
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  Speaker 3: at that point, I think I was twelve, okay, all right,
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  Speaker 3: I knew just enough that this was too narrow to
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  Speaker 3: get this truck across if I just went straight through,
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  Speaker 3: you know, so I knew just enough that it's like, well,
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  Speaker 3: I'll use momentum. And it was enough to get the
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: front bumper hung up on the far side of the
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  Speaker 3: wash and the tailgate hung up on the backside with
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: all four tires hanging in the air. Boy, I could
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: have used some Max tracks. Then hours of rock stacking
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: is jacking most.
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  Speaker 1: Of your days, even though you're managing. How big is
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  Speaker 1: your team now because you have two locations actually maybe three?
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  Speaker 1: Or do you still do the Rubicon Trail?
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  Speaker 3: We do. Yeah, as far as brick and mortar locations
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  Speaker 3: for rental pick up and drop off stores, it's the
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  Speaker 3: retail stores we call them. We just have Moab and Sedona,
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  Speaker 3: and then we held permits in a lot of places,
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  Speaker 3: you know, Rubicon Trail. Of course, we're up there just
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  Speaker 3: in the summertime. That's about a ten or twelve week season,
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  Speaker 3: depending on snowpack on one end and wildfires on the other.
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  Speaker 3: Sure down in El Centro Yuma Glamis area, which of
• 7:54
  Speaker 3: course this time of the year we get to follow
• 7:55
  Speaker 3: the good weather around, so we operate regularly on the
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: rub Contrail Moab, Sedona, Elcentro like I'm forgetting something.
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  Speaker 1: So you drive these vehicles nearly every day. You're oftentimes,
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: even though you run a large organization, you're still the
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: subject matter expert for your team. You have other folks
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: that can do work, but you're definitely the subject matter expert.
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: So that keeps you out in the field a lot
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: with OEMs and other clients. You've had a lot of Jeeps.
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: One of the questions that I was asking in fact,
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: you drove up in a four y E. How is
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: the four y E to drive off road? Now that
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: you've like really driven them.
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  Speaker 3: It's currently my favorite for.
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: Many the idea the plug in hybrids. It's what twenty
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: one miles of electric range?
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: They claim, Yeah, it's and we've gotten up to twenty seven.
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: Of course, there's a lot of variability, just like gas mileage,
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: you know, if you're driving super fast or a pill.
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: For the rally last year and this year too, coming
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: up with jeep, I had the choice of the three
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: ninety two or the four by E, and it was
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: hands down, I want the four by E for the
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: amount of torque you have and the horsepower, but you
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: get twice the range out of a bank of fuel.
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: Significant right off road? What do you know noticing? Are
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: you noticing things that don't work that well? Or are
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: you noticing things that work even better?
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  Speaker 3: With the electric It is really a different experience when
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: you drive it in all electric mode off road, and
• 9:10
  Speaker 3: all you hear is the crunching of the tires. Needless
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: to say. On the three ninety two, that's not the
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: noise you're here.
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: Have you bought a three ninety two yet?
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: I have not. It is actually the only Wrangler drive
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: train that I'm like, I don't need one of those,
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: but I've got your clients in one of those.
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 9:25
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, that was of course when those were coming out.
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: Oh are you going to rent those?
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: No?
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: For those on YouTube? Fill in the blanks.
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: They're fun to drive. You can't help but get in
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: a three ninety two and turn twelve. Yeah both, I've
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: driven them. I mean, you know I haven't. Actually, we've
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: got one coming next week.
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: When were you going to tell me that?
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: We weren't. We weren't going to.
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: Tell you, No, it's coming, It's coming, Matt.
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: Like, of all the press cars we get, the only
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: two that have excited me are the Ford Maverick for
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: some reason.
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, which is super cool.
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: Like there's like there's been some really cool stuff that
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: comes through the office Ford Maverick charming too. I want
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: it like there's actually maybe a strategy that involves you
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: working with Laura to ensure that I don't ever go
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: too near it.
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: I'm staying out of that program. You've had everything from
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: power Wagons to four by Ease and even trail Hawk,
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: Cherokees and all. What is your favorite vehicle right now?
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: I don't know if Matt Matt's gonna look at me funny,
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: because I didn't think I was going to like the Gladiator,
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: But honestly, there's great. Yeah, as far as the body
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: and the setup, that kind of mid sized pickup truck setup.
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: I didn't think I wasn't like it because I have
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: the power Wagon, you know, and I have the Wrangler,
• 10:34
  Speaker 3: and it's like this is kind of in the middle.
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: It's not the best at either thing, sure, but honestly,
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: it's now it's my I'm using it ninety percent of
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: the time. The power Wagon sort of has been relegated
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: to almost exclusively tow duty towing going to home depot
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: because I'm using the Gladiator on the trail now because
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: it's great. I just let you know, we just got
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: back from the dunes and it's like just fling your
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: dirty sandy Max tracks in the back, you know.
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: I think for overland you, the Gladiator is just really fascinating.
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: It's really good.
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: It takes almost all of the benefit of the Wrangler
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: and then makes it more comfortable. You know. It's that
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: huge wheelbase, and then once you start to do anything
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: to them, you put them on a two inch left
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: with thirty sevens and the proportionality of it really comes
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: into play. I love mine, like I don't know how
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: much longer mine will be around, but.
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: It is probably with you. It is probably the vehicle
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: that I build, like virtually more than any other. There's
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: something about that Max toe package if you can. The
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: combination is tough because like I want the manual transmission,
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: which you can't get the Max, so there's some things
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: around it. But if I could end up with a
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: manual transmission Gladiator, I just want. I want it. So
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: I want a white one, you know, I don't want
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: I don't even want the Rubicon. I just want a
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: basic Gladiator. I think with a manual with a manual transmission,
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: which will maximize the payload, and I really kind of
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: want it, So that's the one I build more off
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, it's just it just went up five
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: grand in the last three months.
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: I keep building. Jl's all right.
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: So let's let's pull it back into coming back around
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: kind of your development in the industry. What was the
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: first what was that pivotal moment, because I can think
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: of mine and what was your pivotal moment when you
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: realized I'm going to be able to make a career
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: out of this, where you had that moment of success
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: where you're now vaulted into this position of authority.
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: I had been training commercial guides when I was working
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: for other companies, you know, training these tour guides, and
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: I was getting a lot of requests. I'd get a
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: guide that would say, hey, you know, my brother in
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: law just bot a GP. He's not a guide, but
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: would you mind spending an hour or two with him,
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: you know, showing him some stuff. And those started to
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: get more frequent, and it kind of dawned on me.
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: I'm like, yeah, there could be a demand for this.
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: You know, I'm going to kind of take this program,
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: this commercial guide training program and kind of you modify
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: it for civilian use, so to speak, just recreational users,
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: and you know, maybe one one Saturday a month or something,
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: you know, I'll get business or printed and put a
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: website out, just do a little side business. And within
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: one year of doing that, I had so many requests.
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: I left working for other people. Was on my own,
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: running my own business. And that was it was kind
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: of that like frying pan in the back of the
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: head moments.
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: Where it was like, yeah, I'm really good at this.
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: People want this, you know, and you're really good. Amazing,
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: and it was, Yeah, it was very very fun, very
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: very fulfilling. You know, just see the light the light
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: go on for people, you know, and stuff that I
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: grew up with and just kind of took for granted.
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Really, we've always gotten great feedback on you as
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: a trainer. In fact, Overland Journal uses you as our trainer,
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: so you help train all of our new editors. You've
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: spent a lot of time with Paula, our producer of
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: the podcast recently and showing her how to drive in
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: the dunes and everything else. So there's a reason why
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: we use you as our trainer of choice is because
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: you're so excellent at building upon those foundational components of driving,
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: which leads me to another question of what do you
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: think are some of the two three four key components
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: of good driving? What makes for a good driver? Some
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: things you can give some basic advice.
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: What I always tell my students. First off, whether it's
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: a rock crawling class or sand Dune's class, is like that.
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: You know, when you're driving well, your career is a
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: YouTube star is over. It's a good driving looks like ballet.
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: So if I tell you all look like a bunch
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: of ballerinas out here, that's a good thing. That's a compliment.
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: You know, good driving is fluid, whether you're going a
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: half a mile an hour in a boulder field or
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: one hundred and twenty miles an hour, you know, around
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: a racetrack. Whatever you're driving, your corrections are smooth. It's
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: your throttle, your break, your steering inputs are all very
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: fluid and smooth. And that comes from looking further ahead.
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: We spend a lot of time just teaching people how
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: to look. It's amazing how people fixate on like what's
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: right in front of their hood. You know, if you've
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: done track driving, taught that you don't look at the
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: tire wall in the corner. You're looking where you're coming
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: out on the other side. And I've had trainers on
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: tracks that they will actually block the windshield of the
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: car so you can only look out. You're doing your
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: laps and you're only looking out the side. I don't
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: think they do that anymore. There's like Bosha and some
• 14:53
  Speaker 3: insurance companies that thinks about it.
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: But that's a modern society.
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: But that's a great format time. That's a great example.
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: And I have to think of as a singer for you. Now, Okay,
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: you guys have gotten Tuesday.
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: He's gonna make old people jokes or okay, boomer, we're
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: not boomers.
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, gen next, Right, that's some great insights. What are
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: some other things that come to mind that you think
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: are these core principles of people driving?
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: Well, it's the looking further ahead that's going to help
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: you make your smooth transitions and adjustments. It's leaving your
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: ego at home. Your ego can't be the one making
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: the driving decisions.
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah. The number of rollovers that have happened just because
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: of not stopping right, we could have we could have
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: saved the car.
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and the forwards at all costs. Mentality. It's like no,
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: sometimes eighty percent of the time getting yourself unstuck is
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: just backing up sooner than later, right, exactly, exactly. It's
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: a lot more mental. You know, people want to hear
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: they want to hear physical skills or or modifications of
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: the vehicle. It's like, go spend more money on your vehicle.
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: That's spend more money on yourself. You can actually take
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: it with you.
• 16:01
  Speaker 4: So, yeah, leave your ego at home. Look further smooth corrections.
• 16:05
  Speaker 4: You've talked a lot about we call it mechanical sympathy.
• 16:08
  Speaker 4: When we talk about the concept. You talk a lot
• 16:10
  Speaker 4: about being gentle on the car. Can you expand upon
• 16:13
  Speaker 4: that a little bit.
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: The mechanical sympathy. So when I'm out in a wrangler,
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: I mean, I've spent so many hundreds of thousands of
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: miles and hours whatever in wranglers. I mean to me,
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: it feels like an extension of my body. That's a
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: great place to be able to get. And some of
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: that we can't necessarily train into you. We can do
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: little exercises we do with new people. A lot of
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: times we'll put cones out, so they're getting used to
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: it's really hard to know where the passenger side of
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: the car is. I was going to say the right
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: side of the car, but I know with you guys,
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: I can't specify right or passenger side might be on
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: the left side.
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: That's right, that's right.
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: Getting used to the feel of the car and making
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: it feel like it's an extension everybody. If you set
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: your mind on that kind of goal, it's like, all right,
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: now I'm in this huge prospector you know, I'm going
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: to consciously try to make a decision. Do I know
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: where those each of those four tires are at any
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: given time. That's going to help you a lot. Mechanical sympathy.
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: I have people ask me questions a lot of times,
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: like okay, so you're climbing Olzamobile hill at a Glamis
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: It's like, so what r PM are you at? And
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: I have no idea. You know, I can, I hear
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: and I feel the car. You feel that pressure back
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: on the pedal and you know you're going to make
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: it or not by how that pedal feels. You know,
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: if you're in the right gear. And it's different for
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: every car, it's different if I put take the thirty
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: sevens off the Gladiator and put thirty three's on, it's
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: going to be different.
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: So that's great. Yeah, that's no those are that is
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: that is excellent.
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: But it is like in the Rebel Rally, so Emily
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: Miller talks about like the car is your third teammate,
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: so you know, you take care of yourself. You got
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: to take care of your navigator, and you got to
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: take care of your car. All three of you have
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: to have to make it. And it's great when you
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: have a passenger with you that you can use them
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: as a gauge. If they're uncomfortable, the car is probably
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: suffering too.
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you can always tell. And for those that are
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: listening when you're driving, you're starting to exceed your skills
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: when you're no longer able to maintain a casual conversation.
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: You know when a driver is getting to their limits
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: is because they will get quiet. I will see the
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: whites of their knuckles around the steering wheel, they'll tighten
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: their neck, and they'll stop talking. So when we're driving
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: with someone, we can very quickly determine the skill of
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: the driver in how casual they are in doing something
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: hard if they're very casual around it and they're able
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: to talk to you or maybe even explain what they're doing,
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: how the car feels, and you know that you're dealing
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: with someone that's well within their capability. If you see
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: your passenger start to grab for grab handles, holding their
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: breath tensioning up, you see their feet pressing against the firewall.
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: And the problem with it is that, don't we want
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: to have fun with the people that we're out with.
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: Everybody's going to have a different level of comfort. Someone's
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: going to be like, take me on the e ticket ride.
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: I want the craziest four wheeling that we can do.
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: But then maybe you've got your grandma with you or whatever.
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: Have it be an enjoyable experience for your passenger, and
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: you can tell how they're doing based upon their body language.
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: My dogs have an expression that they get on their
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: face when.
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: Mom when Mike Greyhound stands up, that means that he
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: is no longer having fun off rip.
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there you go. We're not only being mechanically sympathetic
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: of the vehicle, We're being sympathetic of the people in
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: the vehicle with us. And that's when you actually start
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: to have more fun because it's not an ego thing.
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: It's not about pushing yourself or the vehicle to ninety
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: percent or ninety five percent because you can so quickly.
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: If something goes sideways, be it one hundred and five percent,
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: and then you don't have enough talent to save the day.
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: And that happens to people all the time.
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: People run out. I think with modern cars, I'll say
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: that one of the greatest risks is running out of talent.
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: Like let's take a TJ driving really fast, and a
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: TJ was like self correcting. You could only go so
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: fast before your kidney ended up someplace else. With the JK,
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: people could take it a little further. JL or a
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: gladiator driving fast, they can take it further. I mean,
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: these cars are.
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: They're better and better.
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: You know, we think like, oh, it's a JK just
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: has the penister. It has just under three hundred horsepower,
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: like pickup trucks had that ten years ago or whatever.
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: The you know, the example is it's still a lot
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: of power. And these you know, raptor TRX, these things
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: seven hundred horsepower. Yourself in trouble really really quit right,
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: I don't know what you're doing, so I think using
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: the passenger. I think that that's really important.
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: It's also and I know I'll put my old lady
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: voice on. I know Matt can't relate to dish, but
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: Scott will hear what I'm saying. It's like we come
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: from we.
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: Talking about Morse code.
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: Oh no, I'm pat talking about pre power steering an ABS.
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: I know you can think of them as antique cars.
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: They were just cars.
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: It was just called a car.
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: Does that make you guys my vintage friends.
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: Yes, for sure.
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: For sure.
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: But those skills that you have to develop to handle
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: even even a TJ actually is pretty rudimentary in that regard.
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: And we got the J case that had the first
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: electronic stability control. It takes away that responsibilit from the
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: driver and puts it on the car to keep you
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: from skidding out of control, you know, in an icy
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: turn or something like that, which is great. I think
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: it's saved a lot of people. But it's also wonderful
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: if you have the skills to do that for yourself,
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: so that a you're still making good driving choices and
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: b you know what the car is doing and you
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: can really appreciate what the car is doing for you.
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: When I got in the TRX for the first time,
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: I was amazed at you know, that thing stops as
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: well as it goes.
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: That's correct.
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's amazingly forgiving. But yeah, at the speed
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: at which you need it to be forgiving. If it
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: stops being forgiven, yeah, then you are in trouble with.
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so easy to exceed that, And I think
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: that leads me to the next question is as modern
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: vehicles have gotten so good, Let's take a Wildcat or WildTrack,
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: Bronco lockers, front rear swavebar disconnect or a Rubicon or whatever.
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: These vehicles are incredibly capable from the factory. You don't
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: really need to modify them in most conditions. So, since
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: the vehicles have gotten so much better, the OEMs have
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: adopted a lot of the aftermarket accessories right into a
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: model of the car. Training now becomes the most important consideration.
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: What would you see What would you suggest, Nina around training?
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: Like what should someone be looking for first? Like how
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: do they find a trainer? What is the curriculum that
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: they should be looking at first that you have found
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: to be most successful. Do you suggest that people use
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: rental vehicles or their own vehicles. What are some of
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: the things that people should be looking for and try.
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: There's a lot of questions. Yeah, okay, so we had
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: our next hour planned out, So yes, absolutely, and thank you.
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: I was like, Scott's my greatest marketing tool. Everyone should
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: take training. Yeah, well, he said, they are very complicated.
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: The rubicons, as you know, you know now come out
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: and they have different program you're in too high, you
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: go to four high, your trash control system, your stability
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: control system, which are two different programs. Four low. Then
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: you have your axle lockfront and rear, and you've got
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: swaybar disconnect and just you know, we can spend an
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: hour trying to get people just understand those buttons. Sure,
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: and you've been in our parking lot. We have those bumps,
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: we call them the bumps that are in our back
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: parking lot where we can get the vehicles articulated. Just
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: to show them that that's like the very first thing
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: we've had people rent jeeps from Ust have jeeps at home,
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: and you know, just our standard. We're sending you out
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: for the day in a rental, our standard, you know,
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: twenty minute orientation, Like I learned more in this twenty
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: minutes than I have ten years owning a jeep. So
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: there's still I think more and more people are coming
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: up as trainers. You know, Bronco has their off rodeo
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: program yet now, and that's that's great. The more training
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: that is out there, the better it is for all
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: of us.
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: Well, the better it is for our trails. Yes, and
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: that's why I'm a huge proponent of training so we
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: can keep our trails open.
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: Tread Lightly organizations like tread Lightly do a lot towards
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: educating people about Actually here's something we can get on
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: board with. Is just some of the terminology that we use,
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: as you know, audit. In the automotive business, we have
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: Toyota has a track system sure and crawl control, and
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: jeep we call it trash control, and jeeps and select
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: speed control. You know, so we have all this different nomenclature.
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: In the trail use world, we call this off roading
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: and actually off road by you know, insurance and land
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: use definition is you know, leaving the established trail, and
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: so some of this terminology that's that's common. It's like
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: something that you know, we need to work on defining
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: better for people because you know, we see it in Sidona.
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: You know, they think, Okay, as soon as we leave pavement,
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: we can drive wherever we want, and we don't have
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: to wear a seatbelt, and we can drink whatever we want. Yeah,
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: she's like, yeah, that's no, Yeah, not even close. And
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: there are very few areas of the country where off
• 24:28
  Speaker 3: roading where you don't have to stay on trail is
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: actually legal, like glamors like Cinders and help me out here,
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: I'm thinking Cinders is actually the only place the entire
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: state of Arizona that you can drive off trail. I
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: can't think of anywhere else where it's legal.
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: And there are some of those in California where they're
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: just full o HV areas and you can just kind
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: of drive wherever you feel like, which I'm glad that
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: those places exist.
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think sales need to exist. But for sure,
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: now again to recognize that off road does not mean
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: off trail.
• 24:53
  Speaker 3: Yes, so, but it's the term off road. So you
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: in Sidona, you've seen them. We have the signs everywhere
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: the for service sciences say offer driving prohibited. We've had guests,
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: bless their hearts, turn around and say, are we sure?
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: I think we went the wrong way because we saw
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: a sign of offer a driving prohibited. It's like no, no, no,
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: thank you for being conscientious, but it just means you
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: can't on away. You have to stay on the established trail. Yeah, exactly.
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, let's circle back to what kind of training should
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: people look for?
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: First, absolutely responsible land use if you do nothing else,
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: and whether you're mountain biking, hiking, camping, you know whatever.
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: I mean, before you go use public land, just have
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: a basic understanding, and that in itself is challenging. What's
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: for service land. What's the difference between national forest and
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: national park, state trust land. We have so much public land,
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: especially out here in the West, you know, just kind
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: of getting a basic understanding of the lay of the
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: land and how to be out there responsibly. And we
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: move on to vehicles. You know, it's really important stay
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: on trail and you know, some basic outdoors.
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: A lot of people just didn't grow up with a
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: mindset of this, you know. I mean, I like to
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: think put myself in sixteen year old mats shoes that
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: grew up you know, in the land kind of the
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: suburbs and mall parking lots and that kind of stuff.
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: You go to the West Coast and it's just like
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: so open, yeah for sure, Oh yeah, I can drive here,
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: I can drive here, like drive wherever, and it's like no, Like,
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: I think you have to have that etiquette. And we've definitely,
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: I think seen that during the pandemic where people who
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: a lot of impact didn't go outside or outside in
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: the same way or starting to go camping and four
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: wheeling and whatever and instilling that respect. I think for
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: public lands, right, it is way easier to close the
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: gate than it is to open.
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: It, I would agree, And that's certainly the factor going
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: forward is why That's why training is important, because then
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: a trainer can explain to you when do you go
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: into four low from too high to reduce trail impact?
• 26:38
  Speaker 4: Right?
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: And savior tires tires are expensive, when do you go
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: into when do you go into four low? When do
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: you engage a locker? Why would you do the swave
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: bar disconnect? Do you recommend that people start off with
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: like a two day course or a one day course.
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: What are some of the things that people should be
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: as much.
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: As they can if they can spend an hour in
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: a group setting in.
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: A like maybe an overline expos or something like that.
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, Overland Expo is great. There's a lot of
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: training opportunities there, you know, things like jeep jamborees, and
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: there's a lot of big clubs who incorporate training at
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: least just some basic stuff sure to some of their things.
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: We're doing that with Red Rock four Wheelers in Moab.
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: We're actually we've been doing some things where we're training
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: the trail guides, which is really fun. Train the trail
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: guides not just so they can explain to the people better,
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: but you know, kind of have some consistency there too well.
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: And a lot of those trail guides are so skilled,
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: but they have not been taught how to teach, right.
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: That's another part of it is how do you communicate
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: that what you feel and what you've learned through decades
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: of driving in Moab, how do you communicate that to
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: somebody who just started and like, what are those basic principles? Well,
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: that's great reminder, Nina. On the I believe the critical
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: nature of training. We believe so much in the fact
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: that people should be spending more money on their travel
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: than they do on their vehicle. You should be spending
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: more money on training than you do on accessories and modifications,
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: and if we look at it from that perspective, we
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: will become much better drivers. Yes, because if we use
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: a stock wrangler to go where we want to go,
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: and we learn how to drive it, and you realize, actually,
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: I don't need that lift kit, I don't need those tires,
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: and then we can use that money for gas.
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: And right I'm trying to think of a place that
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: a stock wrangler cannot go.
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it has to get really extreme.
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: It gets really extreme, honestly. I mean we were talking
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: about like I didn't think I was going to like
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: the Gladiators. Oh it's going to be limited and we're going
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: to take it and I'm taking it a terminator and
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: Moabrium and trails like that.
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: You know, it's surprising, right, but it is.
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: On thirty seven And I think that ninety nine percent
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: of people don't need we left tires.
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: Of gladiators stock. There's some things that we bypass, like
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: crazy stuff, but.
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: There might have been some three dimensional modifications.
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: Yes, they do that, They do that, Yeah, exactly. It's
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: a paid to play sport too. So Yeah, what has
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: been the thing that you've learned most from being a
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: trainer this long? Like, what have you what observations have
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: you gained about individuals and people in training?
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: For me, the most important thing is never stop being
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: a student. Yeah, and so I'm always looking. I'm actively
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: looking for what's the next lesson that I'm going to learn.
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: There's always a course, there's always new tools and equipment
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: coming out and stuff like that. But you can learn.
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: You can see things from the newest, greenest student in
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: your class and they'll ask a question or point something
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: out that you never thought of that way, and it's like,
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: that's ctually really cool.
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: Humility within the training ranks is super important because someone
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: being teachable as a trainer is as important as them
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: being a good teacher. And I think we see that
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: a lot. We talk about ego earlier, that there's this
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: impression that if I've become a foul Drive trainer, I
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: have to know everything. It's physically impossible. If you had
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: a large staff of trainers, like let's say seven P
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: for example, where you had half a dozen individuals that
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: are very well versed, you start to get closer to
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: knowing a lot of it. But if you take one
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: trainer that has done a lot of things, it can
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: really only know so much like one person can only
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: know they've only been so many places. Maybe they haven't
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: been to the polar regions, or maybe they haven't crossed
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: the Sahara or what. Maybe they haven't done these things
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: that help bill in the gap. So I think for
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: the trainers that are listening, it's it's keeping that sense
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: of teachability and that humility with your students, because otherwise
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: people get they get really turned off by the fact
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: that like they've got it all figured out, none of
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: us do really, right.
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: I know, I don't like trainers. I won't recommend anymore
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: because you know, they went from being the guy that
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: went to off road parks and they're the king of
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: Rush Creek and now all of a sudden they're overland trainers. Yeah.
• 30:31
  Speaker 3: So we the association that I'm part of, the International
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: Formal Drive Trainers Association, That's one of my favorite things
• 30:37
  Speaker 3: is like, you know, a couple of times a year
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: they're doing testing and varying various parts of the country
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: in the world and testing new trainers to see if
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: they'll qualified and be certified member of the association. But
• 30:47
  Speaker 3: it is the So I usually go as an instructor
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: to these, but I always learn a ton. You know,
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: you get people coming over from Australia and the Netherlands
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: and it's like they have tricks and equipment and knowledge
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: that you're never going to get on your own and
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: that you get to shared in that and learn. I
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: learned so much every time we do a testing totally.
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: It's so fun to go to a different country and
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: see how they solve problems. Like you go to Iceland,
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: they have these giant dump valves on their tires, Like
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: we worry about airing down, like it takes forever with
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: the valve core removal thing, and you're it's like a
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: half inch pipe come out of it. I mean it
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: just like it airs down instantly. And even though they
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: are forty four is they air down in like thirty seconds. Nice.
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: So those are the crazy things that you learn from
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: other cultures of four wheeling, which is which is I
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: think really important and a special thanks to this week's sponsor,
• 31:31
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• 31:51
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• 31:55
  Speaker 1: is built for the demands of outdoor use and comes
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: with a handy app that gives you complete control at
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: your fingertips. It's the state of the art, designed for
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: rugged use cooler that you can rely on and enjoy
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: for years to come. Another question that I've got for
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: you because I've seen you at these events and I've
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: seen you work with a lot of variety in individuals,
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: which means some people that are green, or some people
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: that are experienced, or they're commercial clients. You are an
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: excellent communicator on the trail. What are some of the
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: things that you've learned about how to keep people calm,
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: how to have effective communication within a group of people
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: that maybe don't even know each other.
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: Right, you need to set the tone immediately that it's okay,
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: we're all going to do dumb stuff out here, and
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: we're you know, I'm going to try to talk you
• 32:38
  Speaker 3: through it so you don't feel like you're the one
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: looking dumb, you know, just to make it fun, and
• 32:43
  Speaker 3: also that I'll make mistakes or all you all have
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: airhead moments or something like that, and that always at
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: first it seems to put people back on their heels
• 32:50
  Speaker 3: a little bit, like do I want to go out
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: with this person? Do I want to follow this blonde woman?
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: And it's just you know, the whole there's no such
• 32:56
  Speaker 3: thing as dumb question. Like that's one of the first
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: things I'll say a lot of times. I'll say, there's
• 33:00
  Speaker 3: no such thing as a dumb question. Of course, we're
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: going to make fun of you later, but we'll answer
• 33:05
  Speaker 3: you seriously, you know, in front of everybody else, and
• 33:07
  Speaker 3: that gets everybody laughing totally.
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: Well, So, what I've observed in the events that I've
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: attended that you were there is that you do a
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: really thorough driver meeting. In the beginning, you help people
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: know what to expect, yes, so that starts to settle
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: them down immediately, so they kind of know what this
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: is going to be like. And then you reassure them
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: that Okay, either this vehicle is well suited for this,
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: or we've got spotters that are set up with the
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: difficult spots, and you start to make the group feel
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: much more comfortable, and then you do interject humor into it,
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: which I think gives the levity that those kinds of
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: situations need, where people need to just feel like it's
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: not a big deal, Like we're out here having fun, right,
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: this isn't about being perfect and nobody. Somebody's going to
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: get stuck. I mean, I think even at the TRX launch.
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: Somebody got stuck at the TRX launch up in the cinders,
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: and maybe even some sliding off trail, and and so
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: some real challenges can come up, which are moments for
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: people to learn if they're open to it.
• 33:59
  Speaker 3: Right, it can happen to any of us. I have
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: the what is the word I'm looking for? The good fortune?
• 34:04
  Speaker 3: I guess I should say it's like when I do
• 34:05
  Speaker 3: get stuck, most people think one hundred percent she did
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: it on purpose. Most of the time I did. I
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: just posted a photo this morning from the dunes this weekend,
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: and it was like we had talked about, Oh, we're
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: going to go take you out to some witch's eyes
• 34:17
  Speaker 3: and teach you how to get out of them. It's like,
• 34:19
  Speaker 3: and I genuinely just blew it on this one. The
• 34:22
  Speaker 3: side of this one, dude, and it just ended up
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: sucked right down the filling and the taco and and
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: everybody's like, ah, she did it on purpose.
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: Yes, Yes I did.
• 34:30
  Speaker 3: Yes, I did bring me a latte.
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: Oh that's so good though. I love I love getting
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: stuck because it just forces me to relearn the escape
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: course with.
• 34:41
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, would that be fun had an open invitation,
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: you know, yes.
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: I that TRX would have been Oh man, that would
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: have been fun.
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: Except Chris Walker got to use it in all of
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: the dunes.
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: So let's talk a little bit about your motorsports career.
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: So you have been involved with the Rebel Rally since
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: I think the beginning, yes, correct, Yes, the very first event. Yep.
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: Matt and I both and our organizations are huge believers
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: in that event. I think it's one of the most
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: important events that we have each year because it has
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: gotten so much oem engagement. Yes, it has really reinforced
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: these traditional navigation skills. Most people use stock or near
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: stock vehicles, so across the board, I think that this
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: has been one of the most beneficial new events that
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: I've ever seen in my career. It's very exciting to see.
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: Tell me about how you've seen that evolve you've won
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: it several times, so give us the playback when you won.
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: What were you driving and what you learned?
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: What was the first first year that you wont.
• 35:35
  Speaker 3: So we've been on the podium almost every year and
• 35:38
  Speaker 3: one bone Stock three times, and that's always been my
• 35:43
  Speaker 3: primary goal is always the bone Stock Award, just to
• 35:46
  Speaker 3: compete in the vehicle that just in the exact way
• 35:48
  Speaker 3: it came out of the factory. And it's awesome that
• 35:51
  Speaker 3: so many of the competitors out there, whether they're modified
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: or not, but they're the same cars. They take them
• 35:55
  Speaker 3: home and that's what they go get their groceries totally
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: with their daily driver. And there's really no other, you know,
• 36:00
  Speaker 3: major competition like that in the United States or anywhere
• 36:03
  Speaker 3: that I know. The jeep that I won in this
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: year it was a four by Yeah.
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: So you won bone Stock, you won the electrified designation,
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: and you.
• 36:12
  Speaker 3: Went overall right, it was and four by four class
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: if you want like.
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: That, I think that's a sweep. I think that's kind
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: of a sweep. And for stage wins like but they
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: do they do have like an all will drive class
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: as well.
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: Yes, okay, yeah, they call it x cross X Cross.
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: Yes, Yeah, it was crazy.
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: This year.
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: I was on Rebel and I mean, you dominated this year, crushing.
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: It's like you're sitting on you know, I had on
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: my iPad the trackers and I'm watching Staff and I'm
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: watching this and it's like damn, Like Ena is like
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: like miles ahead of people. It was really impressive. And
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: I think that's the cool thing with Rebel that's happening
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: is we're on the seventh year of Rebel.
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: Now, Oh my gosh, yeah, seventh year.
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, crazy, isn't it. Yeah, how time flies?
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: And you're now seeing this this new genre in motorsports evolving,
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: and you're seeing competitors involve, Oh yeah, evolve, and it's
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: it's getting really like the competition is harder every year,
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: and there's more people that can win each year, right,
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: you know. I feel like when it first started, there's
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: a lot of the Gazelle Rally people that were kind
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: of those okay, like you've kind of got the heads
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: up because you've done this before. But now there's this
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: domestic contingent of women that are like badass to do
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: this stuff, right, It's really cool.
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: Time we were involved in training some people who were
• 37:27
  Speaker 3: going to the Gazelle before the Rebel Rally even started,
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: and training for that. Training for the Gazelle Rally is
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: completely different. I can't put Rebels and Gazelles in the
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: same class when we're out at the dunes because it's
• 37:37
  Speaker 3: completely different. Gazelle, it's about driving in a straight line.
• 37:40
  Speaker 3: It's about the shortest distance. In the Rebel Rally, it's
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: about being accurate. We call it driving incursive because smooth
• 37:46
  Speaker 3: driving in the dunes isn't going to be the straight line.
• 37:48
  Speaker 3: You're not going to be bombing up and down, you
• 37:50
  Speaker 3: doom faces in the gazelle. We are trying to teach
• 37:53
  Speaker 3: them how to do that, and it's really rough on
• 37:55
  Speaker 3: your body and your.
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: Car, oh for sure. So it is definitely not the
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: best way to get through dunes.
• 38:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Emily Miller, having competed in the Xel Rally, she
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: knew that, and she knew she didn't want to do that,
• 38:06
  Speaker 3: and she designed this Rebel that we get to be
• 38:08
  Speaker 3: good drivers. Yeah, efficient, and she you know, it's not
• 38:12
  Speaker 3: a race for speed, but speed is definitely I mean,
• 38:15
  Speaker 3: like you said, I mean, we said we set a pace.
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: Well, it seemed like you had a plan this year.
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: You realized or realized me when I love it. But
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: it seemed this year your key to success was efficiency. Yes,
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: watching on the trackers or watching come through places you
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: had a plan. You'd go through, boom done, get the checkpoint,
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: move on. Frankly where a lot of competitors kind of
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: hang out, take some pictures, whatever. It's like, that's how
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: you work. So are because there are speed limits, there
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: are public lands, and it's not a race, it's a rally.
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: Right, that's the place to make up time. Yeah, right,
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: for sure.
• 38:51
  Speaker 3: As you know there were there were plenty of competitors
• 38:53
  Speaker 3: that were driving faster, oh yeah than us.
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: We never almost Yeah, my Earth rommer this year, I'm like,
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: you know, like there's a ninety degree turn and we're
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: taking photos and that means that they need to do
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: eighty mile an hour to that ninety degreeturn and lock
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: it up. And I'm like, I just watch this one
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: card just like straight through and I'm like sitting in
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: and doing TSD scoring.
• 39:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: It was crazy. Like there are some people this year.
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: That the organization and the competitors will need to grow
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: from that, because sportsmanship is so important in events like that,
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: particularly since the Rebel has always been known for that, right,
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: and they've always been known for this camaraderie and helping
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: others out. And you don't help out anyone, including yourself
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: when you break the rules. Actually, what it does is
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: it puts the event at great risk, especially if someone
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: has a very serious accident with a local rancher that's
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: just trying to bring his groceries home. So that will
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: be a challenge obviously for the Rebel going forward. Is
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: making sure that people are not speeding. It doesn't mean
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: that at times you don't slightly exceed the speed limit
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: because you come off a rise, but you just you're
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: constantly checking their speed. That shows that you're paying attention
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: in my mind, Otherwise you're just pushing, pushing, pushing. That's
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: a real risk.
• 39:58
  Speaker 3: And it is the pace. I mean, we're dry, been
• 40:00
  Speaker 3: ten hours a day, and so so the pace there
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: isn't one answer for everybody, like you were saying, it's
• 40:05
  Speaker 3: you know, how how long can you be relaxed? I mean,
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: if you are white knuckle for ten hours, you're exhausted,
• 40:10
  Speaker 3: You're gonna make some decisions. You're smoked, exactly, and so
• 40:13
  Speaker 3: it's just it's just pushing right to that heres as
• 40:16
  Speaker 3: fast as we can go, that's comfortable for the car,
• 40:19
  Speaker 3: and my navigator can still look at her stuff, you know,
• 40:22
  Speaker 3: and and I can maintain this and not be just
• 40:25
  Speaker 3: completely toast in a few hours time.
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: Now that you've done this for six years, going on
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: seven years, what are the top two or three takeaways
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: for you on how the Rebel has changed you as
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: either a person or a driver.
• 40:37
  Speaker 3: Oh? Boy, So personally it's definitely that the control being
• 40:42
  Speaker 3: a business owner, being the trip leader, you know, Alpha,
• 40:46
  Speaker 3: it's always just showing up just to see what gets
• 40:48
  Speaker 3: thrown at us for the day. Is Emily likes to
• 40:51
  Speaker 3: have her twists and turns and something. It's great, and
• 40:53
  Speaker 3: at first it's like stressful because you're like, oh, I'm
• 40:56
  Speaker 3: not prepared for this, I don't think, but no one
• 40:58
  Speaker 3: else is either.
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: Sure.
• 40:59
  Speaker 3: I remember that. One of the big lessons for me
• 41:01
  Speaker 3: on the very first rally was I think it was
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: like day three, I don't remember what day was, and
• 41:05
  Speaker 3: we had what we felt felt was just a really
• 41:08
  Speaker 3: crappy day. It was just like, oh my gosh, we
• 41:10
  Speaker 3: blew it. We missed so much today, you know, and
• 41:12
  Speaker 3: we kind of came back with our tail dragon between
• 41:15
  Speaker 3: our legs and stuff. And then you know when the
• 41:16
  Speaker 3: scores come out and everybody else is kind of down
• 41:18
  Speaker 3: and stuff doing. Scores come out and it's like we were,
• 41:21
  Speaker 3: you know, third place for the day. It was like, well,
• 41:22
  Speaker 3: we sucked less than most.
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: People, and you allowed yourself to learn from that.
• 41:27
  Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, And it's like you don't know, you know,
• 41:29
  Speaker 3: until the dust settles, you know what happens. You're competing
• 41:32
  Speaker 3: against your competing against yourself. But there is no there's
• 41:35
  Speaker 3: no perfect day. I remember telling Emily too at one
• 41:37
  Speaker 3: point it was like, if you really want to screw
• 41:39
  Speaker 3: with my head, give me more checkpoints than I can
• 41:41
  Speaker 3: do in a day that I can't that I have
• 41:43
  Speaker 3: to like have items on my list that don't get
• 41:46
  Speaker 3: checked off that day. You know, my to do list
• 41:48
  Speaker 3: is incomplete.
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: Oh that's cool. Well, congratulations on so much success with
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: the Rebel and we're always being a champion of that
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: event and even beyond that. For those that are listening
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: that would like to come heat in the Rebel Rally,
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: this is a women's only navigation and driving rally that's
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: conducted in Nevada and California. It's it's a very.
• 42:09
  Speaker 3: Long, technically technically Arizona.
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: This yeah, technically Arezona, Okay. So it's a very long
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: route and it's an incredible undertaking that Nina also provides
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: a lot as well as others. But there are individuals
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: that can help train you to compete in the Rebel
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: So if you've always wanted to do it, if you've
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: thought this is the coolest thing ever, which it is,
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: then how do you get prepared for that? There are
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: the organization, The Rebel Rally has people that can talk
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: to you, give you advice, help you work through the process.
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: And then there are trainers available like Nina that can
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: take you in the dunes, show you how to drive
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: your vehicle in the dunes, so that you're well prepared
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: to at least enjoy the event. All of those resources are.
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: And you can available from Barlow a Vatures absolutely.
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: Oh there you go. Yeah, yeah, I didn't know.
• 42:53
  Speaker 3: That even include the Max tracks.
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: How cool is that? So now we're going to do
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: a little rapid fire with you. Uh, what is your
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: favorite stuck story? You getting stuck?
• 43:04
  Speaker 3: I already told you one with the don't let Dad
• 43:06
  Speaker 3: catch us the truck on the ranch.
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: Oh it was your craziest I mean you're deepest stuck.
• 43:12
  Speaker 3: My gosh, there's so most of the time I got
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: to think about, like, you know, most of our nastiest
• 43:16
  Speaker 3: recoveries fortunately have not been myself. Sure, it's it's other people,
• 43:20
  Speaker 3: you know that we just encounter on the trail.
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: Even all right, so you're you're in, You're you got
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: the whole family and the TJ.
• 43:26
  Speaker 3: Right and we were this So this was like the
• 43:29
  Speaker 3: early days of GPS, you know, right around the time
• 43:31
  Speaker 3: Matt was born. And it was like remember the old
• 43:35
  Speaker 3: analog GPS. It was just like all you had was
• 43:37
  Speaker 3: to yes and the black the black line on the screen.
• 43:42
  Speaker 3: There's no topography, there's no yeah, sure you and you
• 43:45
  Speaker 3: could you knew your GPS coordinates. You can get your
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: GPS coordinates, and you could see your track, sure you know. So,
• 43:51
  Speaker 3: which was perfect. And we had made a wrong turn
• 43:53
  Speaker 3: in Grand Staircase Escalante and we're you know, yap and yap,
• 43:56
  Speaker 3: and it didn't really realize it until we were like
• 43:58
  Speaker 3: miles east of we're where we thought we should be
• 44:01
  Speaker 3: and and of course we're in a TJS gas guess
• 44:05
  Speaker 3: is always a significant concert, right exactly, Then we got
• 44:09
  Speaker 3: turned around and we had to use. This was we
• 44:11
  Speaker 3: had an Arizona atlas I think it was a Delrem
• 44:14
  Speaker 3: atliss and we knew our GPS coordinates and so it
• 44:17
  Speaker 3: was one of those moments where you know you got
• 44:19
  Speaker 3: to you know, trust trust the equipment because you think, oh, well,
• 44:23
  Speaker 3: for sure we're here, and the GPS coordinates say, you know,
• 44:25
  Speaker 3: you kind of get your fingers together on the map.
• 44:27
  Speaker 3: Sure as we're over here.
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: Why am I in Monticello?
• 44:30
  Speaker 4: Yeah?
• 44:31
  Speaker 3: Right? And the track like I'm looking at the road
• 44:33
  Speaker 3: on the map and the turns it made, and it
• 44:35
  Speaker 3: looks like our track that we just did. That can't
• 44:38
  Speaker 3: be right. You know, it's like, no, it's it's that's
• 44:41
  Speaker 3: that's true. So you are over here, and you don't
• 44:44
  Speaker 3: want it to be because now you've gone forty miles
• 44:46
  Speaker 3: out of your way on a one hundred and eighty
• 44:48
  Speaker 3: mile range tank of gas. That totally happens, right exactly.
• 44:53
  Speaker 3: We finally kind of made it on fumes that we're
• 44:55
  Speaker 3: literally gaslight is on and we're coming into we made
• 44:57
  Speaker 3: it damp back down to like Smokey Mountain Road.
• 44:59
  Speaker 4: You know.
• 45:00
  Speaker 3: Now we're now like you know, ten miles out of
• 45:01
  Speaker 3: Escalante or something. We know there's gas should and we
• 45:04
  Speaker 3: see that this guy on this ATV three wheel of
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: course back then, you know, and before, and he's like, oh,
• 45:12
  Speaker 3: I'm looking for my dogs. Have you seen a couple
• 45:13
  Speaker 3: of dogs out here? We're like, We're so glad to
• 45:16
  Speaker 3: see you another human.
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: That's a great story.
• 45:22
  Speaker 3: It was. I had a moment of that in the
• 45:25
  Speaker 3: dunes too, where it was, uh, you know, I've been
• 45:27
  Speaker 3: out in the dunes lot and there was a point
• 45:29
  Speaker 3: where we got to okay, all right, you know, you know,
• 45:32
  Speaker 3: we had a big old stuck. Somebody got seriously buried,
• 45:34
  Speaker 3: and you know, we're digging out. It's starting to get dark,
• 45:37
  Speaker 3: it's an overcast day. It's like, okay, everyone, this way
• 45:40
  Speaker 3: is the way out, you know. And we start going
• 45:42
  Speaker 3: and the jeep, you know, the compass on the jeep
• 45:44
  Speaker 3: dashboard says north and I'm I'm like, no, no, we're
• 45:47
  Speaker 3: going south. What's wrong with the jeep? So I get
• 45:52
  Speaker 3: out and check the compass and it was like, oh no, yeah,
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: trust the equipment there, your tools a little bit there
• 45:57
  Speaker 3: so well.
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: Which leads me to my next question. What is I know,
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: you're very minimalist and you tend to do very few modifications,
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: but what's your favorite gear that you bring along on
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: almost every trip? It can be.
• 46:08
  Speaker 3: Anything, okay, a shovel, yeah, strap or a rope. You know,
• 46:13
  Speaker 3: I've gotten more and more to prefer a kinetic energy
• 46:17
  Speaker 3: recovery rope instead of a strap, even for towing. It's
• 46:21
  Speaker 3: kind nice. I think you and I have had a
• 46:23
  Speaker 3: difference of opinion on I use a kinetic rope a
• 46:25
  Speaker 3: lot more than I used to, sure, and I'll incorporate
• 46:28
  Speaker 3: it in winching and everything. Get so, just to give
• 46:29
  Speaker 3: you a little shock absorber sort of you know, so
• 46:32
  Speaker 3: speak So the shovel of the rope Max tracks is
• 46:35
  Speaker 3: on most trips these days. And that's not just you know,
• 46:38
  Speaker 3: throwing love across the table or anything here.
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 46:40
  Speaker 3: They work, Yeah, and your brain honestly, So one of
• 46:44
  Speaker 3: them screwed. Yeah, I know what am I going to do?
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: I got from wait, sorry what.
• 46:49
  Speaker 3: One of our trainers, John Marshall, I steal this phrase
• 46:52
  Speaker 3: from him. Is great. It's like you don't always have
• 46:54
  Speaker 3: what you want, but you always have what you need.
• 46:58
  Speaker 3: And then of course you know basic stuff like first
• 47:00
  Speaker 3: kit and the preparation ahead a time of if I'm
• 47:03
  Speaker 3: going into the deep back country, someone's always going to
• 47:05
  Speaker 3: know where I am. And we have the advantage these
• 47:08
  Speaker 3: days is you know a lot of our flea vehicles
• 47:09
  Speaker 3: of course, have GPS trackers on them too. So after
• 47:12
  Speaker 3: the first Rebel rally, my husband was like, you're never
• 47:14
  Speaker 3: going anywhere without a tracker on your vehicle. Again, I
• 47:17
  Speaker 3: like that a lot.
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: It doesn't have to worry about you as much. Yeah,
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: you're off being an adventure.
• 47:22
  Speaker 3: So technology has has made things both easier, but it's
• 47:26
  Speaker 3: also provided as we've talked about before, it provides a
• 47:29
  Speaker 3: false sense of security out there. And I think like
• 47:32
  Speaker 3: that we had the blizzard, member the big blizzard in
• 47:34
  Speaker 3: Tahoe right before the holidays. Oh yeah, yeah, you know,
• 47:38
  Speaker 3: and people were going, now it's snow and we got
• 47:40
  Speaker 3: to go play in the snow. And everybody's stuck out
• 47:42
  Speaker 3: there for hours on I eighty and and it's like,
• 47:45
  Speaker 3: I think people have a mentality of well, I can
• 47:48
  Speaker 3: just you know, I can always call nine one one
• 47:50
  Speaker 3: or something, and it's like nine one one couldn't get
• 47:52
  Speaker 3: to them, you know. I know the guys that were
• 47:53
  Speaker 3: the first responders up there, and they were like, there
• 47:55
  Speaker 3: was calls, they just couldn't make it. They didn't have
• 47:57
  Speaker 3: enough people where they physically could not get to them. Sure,
• 48:01
  Speaker 3: just going out with the mentality in the first place
• 48:04
  Speaker 3: that you're going to have to self recover will make you.
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: Or you have to self survive. So you're going to
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: bring blankets along, You're going to bring water and food
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: and those basic supplies because you never know when that
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: three hour tour is going to turn is going to
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: turn into something. As a reference that Matt didn't get
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: sung the song man.
• 48:23
  Speaker 3: Okay, so I got a generational test for you.
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: What is this frase?
• 48:27
  Speaker 3: Where does this phrase come from? Do you have any
• 48:30
  Speaker 3: gray poopon?
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: Was the was the commercial with Rolls RoCE.
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: I'm so impressed it's not really. I mean, that's kind
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: of like Matt was actually in that commercial. He was
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: a little kid in the back.
• 48:41
  Speaker 3: Most people your age. I think it's from you know,
• 48:44
  Speaker 3: Wayne's World reference.
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: I actually grew up next to the town that Wayne's
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: World was setting next to Aurora, Illinois, similar to what
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: the movie led it to be.
• 49:00
  Speaker 3: Lots of mullets. Interesting.
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: Okay, good enough, all right, So the next rapid fire question.
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: If someone's going to do their top two or three
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: modifications to a vehicle, what would you recommend that people do.
• 49:12
  Speaker 3: The first thing is gonna beat tires because just out
• 49:16
  Speaker 3: of necessity. So even though we talk about like you know,
• 49:18
  Speaker 3: Rubicon's for example, coming out of the factory, jeeps coming
• 49:21
  Speaker 3: with you know, more aggressive tires than we used to
• 49:24
  Speaker 3: ever be able to get, there's still om tires. There's
• 49:26
  Speaker 3: still usually a compound that's designed specifically to be quieter
• 49:30
  Speaker 3: and more fuel efficient. So the first thing I'm going
• 49:33
  Speaker 3: to do is dump os. Get them. Let's get loud
• 49:35
  Speaker 3: and inefficient right now. Usually the tires that come from
• 49:38
  Speaker 3: the tire manufacturers are usually going to be a tougher tire.
• 49:41
  Speaker 3: So the tires are literally the tires meet the ground. Yeah,
• 49:45
  Speaker 3: literally and figuratively, you know, not going cheap on your tires.
• 49:48
  Speaker 3: Get your tires for what you're going to be doing, okay,
• 49:50
  Speaker 3: and then what would be then would be the next thing.
• 49:52
  Speaker 3: So actually first is training, right, we talked about it. Okay,
• 49:54
  Speaker 3: let's motifice and then tires, your equipment, just some of
• 49:58
  Speaker 3: your basic equipment, Like we talked about out, Sure, what's
• 50:00
  Speaker 3: next after that?
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: What do you find that you like that.
• 50:03
  Speaker 3: A good quality jack?
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, fact, and make sure that it works with the
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: vehicle because after some people at a lift larger tires
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: and the jack no longer works where they don't bring
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: a base for the jack, and then it doesn't work
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: in the sand or in the mud for sure. And
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: I think that this is what I love about asking
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: this question is that it always comes back to these
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: very simple things. Like no one has ever said a
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: snorkel is my first And I'm not saying that a
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: snorkel's a bad idea. I'm just saying that it shouldn't
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: be the first thing that you do. Like make sure
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: you've got great tires, make sure that your spring rate
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: is suitable to the load that you're carrying with you.
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: I mean these really basic things.
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: Your car isn't going to fall apart. Yeah, I don't
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: know how many like land rivers I've seen and they
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: have all their perfect accessories.
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: And then like no maintenance. Tirod end is like moving
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: like this, that's totally well because that doesn't look cool. Yeah,
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: it doesn't look cool, all right, So then you're an
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: entrepreneur in addition to being an adventurer and a motorsports winner.
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: What are some books that you have really enjoyed in
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: any of those categories? May books aren't your thing.
• 51:02
  Speaker 3: No, I am an avid reader. I'm just laughing because
• 51:05
  Speaker 3: last time my husband was got on my back. You
• 51:07
  Speaker 3: need to go to sleep because I was geeking out
• 51:09
  Speaker 3: on this. I'm reading a land navigation book right now.
• 51:12
  Speaker 3: It's like, yeah, very engrossing.
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: What's the book? What's the name of the book?
• 51:16
  Speaker 3: Oh, my gosh, And you can ask me the hard
• 51:17
  Speaker 3: questions off to send it to you.
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: I don't remember, right, it's a weird thing, so I
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: can't this happens.
• 51:25
  Speaker 3: Visualize the cover, but I couldn't sure you.
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: Well, we'll put it in the show notes.
• 51:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: Probably. What are some other books that you've kind of
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: come to love?
• 51:32
  Speaker 3: Oh, my gosh, your favorite Price love her stuff? Yeah.
• 51:38
  Speaker 3: I go back and forth between fiction and non fiction.
• 51:42
  Speaker 3: I do love to read other people's stories of their
• 51:45
  Speaker 3: world travels because there's a common thread of like, crap's
• 51:49
  Speaker 3: going to happen, and you just figure out how to
• 51:50
  Speaker 3: deal with it. Sure, and if you're if you're waiting
• 51:53
  Speaker 3: to go, you know, when you think crap's not going
• 51:55
  Speaker 3: to happen, you're just you're never going to go.
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. That's great advice as well. So now,
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: how do people find out more about you and what
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: you do? How do people follow you on Instagram? How
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: do they follow you on? All of the my face
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: twits and all those other things?
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: Face do you TikTok? I'd like to introduce you to
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: my favorite tiktokert TikTok Caleb does Caleb? You hired a TikToker?
• 52:25
  Speaker 3: Did you know he was a TikToker?
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: When he's really good at it?
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: He's really good out of things, Like I now know
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: the phrase it slaps. That's something that apparently see now
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: you're starting to feel like you've got another generation under you.
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: There you go, weird. You know, life goes on.
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: That's how it works.
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: I have all these like trendy words that I say
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: because Caleb says them.
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: There you go. I don't know it slaps. I don't
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: know what that means. I probably shouldn't say that out loud,
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: I feel about it. We should probably figure out what
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: that means before we say it again.
• 52:54
  Speaker 3: Right, all right?
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: So how do they how do they find out? How
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: do they follow you on in Instagram? How do they
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: follow you on? And I'm sure you have accounts for
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: yourself personally and then for the business.
• 53:05
  Speaker 3: We're very active on Instagram into Leicester, Facebook, but Instagram
• 53:10
  Speaker 3: Barlow Adventures, Barlow it is underscore adinits.
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: We're going to put it right here, all right. And
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: then how do they follow you individually?
• 53:17
  Speaker 3: Follow me individually? Your own your own on Instagram? I do.
• 53:21
  Speaker 3: I don't have a personal account.
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: I do.
• 53:23
  Speaker 3: I do incorporate some more personal stuff on that Instagram
• 53:26
  Speaker 3: account than I do. Like Facebook page. Facebook, we have
• 53:29
  Speaker 3: a g purnal page, sedon j purnal page, and then
• 53:32
  Speaker 3: we have you know, Barlow Adventures. You know, my personal
• 53:34
  Speaker 3: page on Facebook.
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: And then do you have an Instagram for your team
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: for your racing.
• 53:39
  Speaker 3: Gets yes, and it's oh my gosh, I just changed it.
• 53:42
  Speaker 3: I think it's Team one twenty nine. If you Rebel
• 53:44
  Speaker 3: Rally Team one two nine, okay, you know, at least
• 53:48
  Speaker 3: you can find it by that hashtag.
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: So and then people can also find more about the
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: Rebel Rally Rebel rally dot com and they can find
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: the Rebel Rally on Instagram as well to get more
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: information on that. I guess I've got two more questions.
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: Where do you want to go anywhere in the world? Like,
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: what's your like Chili? You want to go to ChIL?
• 54:06
  Speaker 3: I know that's yeah for whatever, that's like my hot button, right, perfect, Yeah.
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: Peace go sours and big dunes, Yeah, I got them there.
• 54:13
  Speaker 3: It's like the California of South America with a lot.
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: Of no questions, no question. It's a wonderful country. Awesome, Yeah,
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: you would love that. And then last question is which
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: we try to ask if you were to give just
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: one piece of advice to someone who is getting ready
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: to be a rebel rally contributor, or a competitor or
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: a traveler, what would be the words.
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: Of encouragement that you would give someone new to this.
• 54:34
  Speaker 3: You just need to do it and you start taking
• 54:37
  Speaker 3: the steps. It's overwhelming, and if when you get to
• 54:40
  Speaker 3: the end of it and you look back and everything
• 54:42
  Speaker 3: that you had to go through, you probably would be
• 54:44
  Speaker 3: intimidated to start. You start, and it's never going to
• 54:48
  Speaker 3: be perfect. Like we talked about a few minutes ago,
• 54:51
  Speaker 3: you have enough, just you know, get to the point
• 54:53
  Speaker 3: where you have enough and take the next step.
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and just go, you go. That's wonderful. That's wonderful advice. Matt,
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: Do you have any more questions for Nina?
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: What's your favorite jeep? No, No, I'm going to retract
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: that question, what do you think the best jeep ever made? Is? Oh?
• 55:06
  Speaker 3: Ever made? It's honestly, you're going to have.
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: One I could never sell.
• 55:11
  Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, that's like asking you like, yeah, hip
• 55:16
  Speaker 3: one car and never.
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: This is actually a person, the only person we've ever
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: had on the podcast that has more cars than you.
• 55:23
  Speaker 3: I want to buy Matt's coffee table book of all
• 55:25
  Speaker 3: the cars.
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: I've One day I will have a coffee table book. Yeah,
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: one foot thick.
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: It's already there, almost, Matt.
• 55:32
  Speaker 3: Honestly, the one that I have the most anticipation for
• 55:35
  Speaker 3: right now is the Gladiator for by E. I'd love
• 55:38
  Speaker 3: my Gladiator, but with all the other drive trains available
• 55:41
  Speaker 3: right now, it's the three six or the diesel. The
• 55:43
  Speaker 3: diesel is great, and if I trade this one in,
• 55:45
  Speaker 3: it would probably be on a diesel. The Gladiator for
• 55:47
  Speaker 3: by E, we know, is a couple of years away,
• 55:49
  Speaker 3: but that I'm really looking forward to, and especially with
• 55:52
  Speaker 3: Leaps and bounds, how the electrified is coming, where we're
• 55:56
  Speaker 3: going to be two years from now, even you know
• 55:58
  Speaker 3: we have some concepts coming free cheeps.
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: It's all coming. Yeah, it's all a number of manufacturers
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: that have set lines in the sand of being only
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: electric by twenty twenty five, which is three years away. Unbelievable.
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: That's why I'm keeping my alj There you go.
• 56:11
  Speaker 3: It's the infrastructure coming along with that. Did you attend
• 56:14
  Speaker 3: the power innovations are the rebel rally electrified session? They
• 56:18
  Speaker 3: had power innovations on there, and as much as they
• 56:21
  Speaker 3: are involved in a rebel rally without it. Before that presentation,
• 56:23
  Speaker 3: I had no idea how involved they are with getting
• 56:26
  Speaker 3: this infrastructure out there, including you know, portable charging.
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: Well, electric trailers and everything. So, you know, it seems
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: that electric has become this almost contentious issue.
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: Everything's like, yeah, you cannot why does everything have to
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: be I know argument, I know, it's like, there's nothing
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: wrong with an electric car. Keep driving your car if
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: you want to like the fact that somebody wants to
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: buy electric car. Why do you care?
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: I have an oil bell on my roof.
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah exactly, You're producing energy.
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: That's why I want an electric car. I live in Arizona.
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: Like if I lots of sun I lived in Scotland,
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: I'd think that that was a pretty dumb idea. But
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: I live in Arizona, and any other questions for Nina
• 57:05
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's really the one jeep that you'd have
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: if you could have one jeep.
• 57:08
  Speaker 3: You can't believe it. What do you want to answer
• 57:10
  Speaker 3: to be mad? I don't know. Yeah, it's like I
• 57:14
  Speaker 3: get this question all the time. What's your favorite trail?
• 57:16
  Speaker 3: It's like it really, it's the one I'm on right now.
• 57:19
  Speaker 3: I am like so geeking out on what I'm doing
• 57:21
  Speaker 3: right now.
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: He know you're being in the moment, which is awesome. Well, Nina,
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: thank you so much for being on the podcast. We
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: have been trying to get you out here for the
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: longest time, couple reschedules, but we had you here today.
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: You have been such an inspiration to so many people.
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: You really have, and you've always been humble about it,
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: and you have shared your knowledge freely with others, and
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: you've been so supportive of new people coming into the
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: Rebel and into backcountry travel as well. Everybody that's listening,
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: please check out Nina and her adventures and we will
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: talk to you next time.