Latest / The Ageless Warrior Lab / Eddie Bravo: Developing 10th Planet Jiu Jitsu & Where His Creative Style Comes From | EP 52

Transcript

Eddie Bravo: Developing 10th Planet Jiu Jitsu & Where His Creative Style Comes From | EP 52 · The Ageless Warrior Lab

0:00
SPEAKER_05: First couple years, no no one had any doubt.
0:02
SPEAKER_05: Jiu Jitsu's number one.
0:04
SPEAKER_05: But then after a while, wrestlers started fing up Jiu-Jitsu guys and neutralizing them.
0:08
SPEAKER_05: And then some jujitsu guys got knocked down, like Conan Silvillera got head kicked by Maury Smith.
0:13
SPEAKER_05: We're going, oh my god, jujitsu's falling apart.
0:16
SPEAKER_05: So all I was trying to do was trying to help jujitsu.
0:19
SPEAKER_05: And we gotta fix this shit.
0:21
SPEAKER_05: We gotta get good at the guard without the fing.
0:27
SPEAKER_03: Welcome to the Angels Warrior Lab.
0:30
SPEAKER_03: I'm BJJ Coral Belt and Dirty Dozen member Dave Meyer, here to draw wisdom from Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and the martial arts and explore how it applies to success in business, relationships, your long-term health, and making the most out of your life.
0:46
SPEAKER_03: Okay, hold on to your hats.
0:49
SPEAKER_03: What you're about to hear is a conversation I had with my good friend Eddie Bravo.
0:53
SPEAKER_03: Eddie is one of the most creative and innovative people in BJJ and submission grappling today.
0:58
SPEAKER_03: He developed an entire new system of grappling called 10th Planet Jiu Jitsu, which has now more than 200 schools globally.
1:06
SPEAKER_03: Eddie is a black belt under John Jock Mikado, where Eddie and I trained together for many years.
1:11
SPEAKER_03: I saw his potential early and was impressed at how creative and analytical he was, so much so that I actually took some private lessons from him, even though I was senior to him in belt ranking.
1:22
SPEAKER_03: The world first saw the power of his system when he submitted Hoiler Gracie in the 2003 ADCC competition in Abu Dhabi.
1:30
SPEAKER_03: Hoiler was considered to be pound for pound the best fighter in the Gracie family, and for him to be defeated by an American, and one who was just a brown belt at the time shocked the world.
1:39
SPEAKER_03: But it didn't shock me.
1:41
SPEAKER_03: Eddie's technical contribution to submission grappling are without end.
1:45
SPEAKER_03: The lockdown, the truck, the rubber guard, mission control.
1:49
SPEAKER_03: Eddie is an unparalleled creative force in BGJ and submission grappling.
1:53
SPEAKER_03: Eddie launched the Eddie Bravo invitational or EBI tournament with a unique rule set to promote better action.
1:59
SPEAKER_03: He followed that with Combat Jiu Jitsu, adding in palm strikes on the ground, again to push the grappling action.
2:06
SPEAKER_03: He's the author of books, Off the Masks.
2:08
SPEAKER_03: Eddie is a musician, a podcaster hosting Look Into It, where he discusses his, let's say, interesting ideas on various conspiracies.
2:18
SPEAKER_03: There is never a dull moment with Eddie.
2:20
SPEAKER_03: Eddie awarded Joe Rogan, his no-dee black belt, and has been a frequent guest on the Joe Rogan podcast.
2:26
SPEAKER_03: In our conversation, Eddie and I start by me spending a good amount of time sharing lots of stories about the early days of BGJ in the US.
2:34
SPEAKER_03: Then we talk about his creativity on the mat, his competition formats, music, cats, and a huge variety of topics.
2:41
SPEAKER_03: I think you're gonna really find this fun to listen to.
2:44
SPEAKER_03: Now here's the thing.
2:46
SPEAKER_03: Boys will be boys, and there are a lot of F bombs in this interview.
2:50
SPEAKER_03: If that's a problem for you, probably should skip this one.
2:53
SPEAKER_03: But if you're watching on YouTube, those may be silenced out anyway to allow for some paid promotion of the show, which requires that.
3:00
SPEAKER_03: So if you see that, now you know why.
3:02
SPEAKER_03: And so without any further ado, please sit back and enjoy my conversation with my buddy and my brother, Eddie Twister Bravo.
3:12
SPEAKER_03: Eddie, my old friend, thank you for taking the time to come and sit with me, brother.
3:16
SPEAKER_03: You know, I'll do anything for you, man.
3:18
SPEAKER_03: We are family, I would say we're jujitsu brothers, except maybe because once I moved down to the South Bay, I was training more with Higgin and you were still with Jean-Jacques.
3:27
SPEAKER_03: Well, regardless, we're first cousins.
3:29
SPEAKER_05: Well, regardless of that, you were the first guy I rolled with when I walked into the Machado Academy in 1994.
3:37
SPEAKER_05: You were the first guy, and I'm sure it was Johnny.
3:41
SPEAKER_05: Johnny said, go fuck this guy up.
3:44
SPEAKER_05: Because I went in my first day thinking, okay, I wrestled a couple years, and I'm like, and I looked at this and I saw UFC2, I saw Hoist fuck everybody up, but I was still like, dude, I've been in wrestling rooms and stuff.
3:57
SPEAKER_05: I go, this is wrestling.
3:58
SPEAKER_05: I didn't know wrestling was uh considered a martial art.
4:02
SPEAKER_05: I had no idea.
4:03
SPEAKER_05: To me, wrestling was one-on-one football.
4:05
SPEAKER_05: We tackled each other.
4:06
SPEAKER_05: That's not fighting.
4:07
SPEAKER_05: I never looked at wrestling as fighting.
4:10
SPEAKER_05: As a matter of fact, when I wrestled and got into fights in high school, I would double leg dudes, wrestle them, not because I thought I was tough or I thought I could beat them up.
4:21
SPEAKER_05: I used wrestling to survive.
4:23
SPEAKER_05: I didn't think it was fighting.
4:24
SPEAKER_05: I go anybody talk shit on me, even though I knew I couldn't take anybody down in the wrestling room because I sucked, I knew that if you didn't know how to wrestle, I'll fuck you up.
4:35
SPEAKER_05: So when I'd get in a fight, I'd double leg a dude right away and hold him down until the principal broke it up and I survived.
4:41
SPEAKER_05: I thought it was cheating.
4:42
SPEAKER_05: I'm like, whatever.
4:43
SPEAKER_05: I'm cheating, whatever.
4:45
SPEAKER_05: Like, you didn't make me cry in front of the school.
4:48
SPEAKER_05: So when I saw the damn wrestling and takedowns, I was like, You could fight that way?
4:54
SPEAKER_05: When I was watching Hoist going, oh my god, you could take guys to the ground?
4:59
SPEAKER_05: Fuck damn.
5:00
SPEAKER_05: That's legit, and you're not considered a pussy?
5:02
SPEAKER_05: I go, that's for me, because that's what I used to do.
5:05
SPEAKER_05: And when I showed up to Jean-Jacques for the first time, I had been doing karate for like nine months.
5:11
SPEAKER_05: I had one stripe on my white belt, and I thought I was the shit training six months.
5:16
SPEAKER_05: I thought I was like, man, I trained six fucking months, not three, not four, six months.
5:22
SPEAKER_05: You know what I mean?
5:23
SPEAKER_05: I thought, okay, either this jujitsu shit is prehistoric wrestling or super advanced wrestling.
5:31
SPEAKER_05: Because I thought, like, how are they gonna hold me down?
5:33
SPEAKER_05: I wrestled two years, these motherfuckers doing karate.
5:35
SPEAKER_05: Okay, let's see.
5:37
SPEAKER_05: I thought I could just throw people off me if they try to get on top of me.
5:40
SPEAKER_05: So again, I I came in on the fence like either this is prehistoric wrestling, either wrestling wrestlers are gonna fuck these guys up, or it's super advanced wrestling that's gonna overtake traditional wrestling.
5:54
SPEAKER_05: And I went in there, Johnny paired me up with you, and I don't know how many times you tapped me out, but I like to say 27 times because I like I don't remember the exact amount, but I say it like I know like I counted, like there was a like a- That's what it felt like.
6:08
SPEAKER_05: It felt like 27 times.
6:09
SPEAKER_05: Sometimes I say 35 times.
6:11
SPEAKER_05: I go, this motherfucker, I went in, he was a purple belt, and back then, people don't realize the timeline of jujitsu.
6:19
SPEAKER_05: The timeline is like basically jujitsu was born 1994, UFC 2.
6:25
SPEAKER_05: That's when it was born.
6:27
SPEAKER_05: Sure, it was in Brazil and all over the world and Japan for fucking 100 years or whatever.
6:32
SPEAKER_05: But in the United States, nobody knew shit about jujitsu.
6:36
SPEAKER_05: Only a couple people.
6:41
SPEAKER_05: Once somebody in New York, Carly Gracie, I think was in San Francisco.
6:45
SPEAKER_05: He had like six students.
6:47
SPEAKER_05: Nobody knew what the fuck jujitsu was.
6:49
SPEAKER_05: UFC2 blows up, and then all of a sudden, jujitsu's like fucking like Nirvana and fucking smells like Teen Sparrow.
6:57
SPEAKER_05: It changed the fucking world.
7:01
SPEAKER_05: And then everybody joined the there was only a couple of jiu-jitsu schools, everybody joined them.
7:06
SPEAKER_05: Like they like we had the Machados here, and then I think the Hickson, couple guys, but everybody was a white belt, and there was a few blue belts, and there was one purple belt.
7:18
SPEAKER_05: There was no purple, there was like purple belts were like a fucking myth.
7:23
SPEAKER_05: In the beginning, everybody was just it was the white belts and a couple blue belts.
7:27
SPEAKER_05: And if you made it the purple, like how the fuck did you get the purple?
7:30
SPEAKER_05: When I walked in 1994, walked into jujitsu, Dave Meyer, he was the one purple belt at the school.
7:38
SPEAKER_05: There was only one, and then Silvio became a purple too.
7:41
SPEAKER_05: So there was like two.
7:42
SPEAKER_05: Now it's a we that's a weird ass story how he, the Brazilian, ended up in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu through catch wrestling, through Jam Belt.
7:49
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, Silvio is like an anomaly.
7:53
SPEAKER_05: There's only one Silvio.
7:54
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, there's only one, and then there was also what about dudes that were already black belts in Japanese jiu-jitsu, which is different.
8:03
SPEAKER_05: That was you.
8:04
SPEAKER_05: So tell me, I know you probably told the story a million times, but to me, I walk in, you're the only purple belt.
8:11
SPEAKER_05: Johnny says, Dave, wrestle with this fucking new guy, and you fucked me up over and over and over.
8:18
SPEAKER_03: But I didn't injure you.
8:20
SPEAKER_05: No, you didn't injure me.
8:21
SPEAKER_05: Exactly.
8:21
SPEAKER_05: But to me, I loved it because I came from wrestling, and I'm a musician.
8:27
SPEAKER_05: So I understand that when you practice something that you suck at, you can get good at it if you practice it.
8:34
SPEAKER_05: You learn that in wrestling, you learn that in music.
8:38
SPEAKER_05: Practice makes perfect, or almost perfect, or close to perfect.
8:43
SPEAKER_05: Gets you better.
8:44
SPEAKER_05: Yes.
8:45
SPEAKER_05: And so I knew that.
8:47
SPEAKER_05: So when you fucked me up, I'm like, oh my God, I'm gonna master this shit.
8:51
SPEAKER_05: And one day, my first goal in jujitsu in the beginning was to be able to fuck up a dude on his first day and do what you did to me, that was my first goal.
9:01
SPEAKER_05: I want to be able to do that to someone who walked in on the first day because I knew the dudes that come in on their first day, that's 99.99999999999.
9:11
SPEAKER_05: Everybody of everybody in the world.
9:12
SPEAKER_05: That's right.
9:13
SPEAKER_05: That's right.
9:14
SPEAKER_05: So if dude comes in, even if he has some athletic background and I can fuck that dude up, that means damn on the streets, if something went down, the odds are in my favor.
9:23
SPEAKER_05: You'd want to put a couple of dollars on my side.
9:25
SPEAKER_05: And that was my first goal is to wreck, to do what you did to me.
9:29
SPEAKER_05: All right.
9:29
SPEAKER_05: On the first day.
9:30
SPEAKER_03: I'm glad your first goal wasn't to do it back to me, which you eventually did.
9:33
SPEAKER_03: No, no, you, you did.
9:34
SPEAKER_05: No, you were you were like, there's no way I'm gonna beat this guy.
9:38
SPEAKER_05: No, it was like there wasn't.
9:39
SPEAKER_05: I thought like one day I'm gonna beat this.
9:42
SPEAKER_05: Like, dude, you were so far ahead of me.
9:44
SPEAKER_05: I'm like, I'm not even worried about you because I ain't gonna run into you at the fucking in the alley.
9:48
SPEAKER_05: I know, I know you ain't gonna be at the raves fucking boom bumping into me.
9:52
SPEAKER_05: It's gonna be some other dude.
9:53
SPEAKER_05: So I wasn't worried about you, right?
9:55
SPEAKER_05: I wasn't worried about the people fucking me up in class because I knew those aren't the guys I have to worry about.
9:59
SPEAKER_05: These are my training partners slash training equipment.
10:03
SPEAKER_05: That's my squat rack, that's my bench press.
10:06
SPEAKER_05: These guys are my workout instruments.
10:09
SPEAKER_05: I'm not gonna fight these guys on the street, these guys are gonna prepare me for the guys on the street.
10:13
SPEAKER_05: So that's how I looked at it.
10:15
SPEAKER_05: So it didn't bother me getting wrecked by you.
10:18
SPEAKER_05: I was like, oh my god, I'm gonna be able to do this one day.
10:22
SPEAKER_05: Oh my god, because I've been a pussy my whole life, and now I'm gonna have like non-pussy powers.
10:28
SPEAKER_04: So that's why I got obsessed.
10:30
SPEAKER_03: That's why because of you.
10:31
SPEAKER_03: I appreciate that.
10:33
SPEAKER_03: And I remember, I mean, we talk about just me watching you get better and better, and we'll talk.
10:37
SPEAKER_03: I've got questions about your creativity and stuff.
10:39
SPEAKER_03: You're just I'm so proud.
10:41
SPEAKER_03: I don't have anything to do with how good you got.
10:43
SPEAKER_03: That's your hard work, that's Jean-Jacques, stuff like that.
10:46
SPEAKER_03: But I'm just so proud of you.
10:47
SPEAKER_03: I was so proud when you beat Hoyler.
10:49
SPEAKER_03: I'm so proud of everything that you've done.
10:50
SPEAKER_03: I it's just I really, really have just watched you.
10:53
SPEAKER_03: I'm just so proud of you.
10:55
SPEAKER_03: I appreciate that.
10:56
SPEAKER_03: So I started in jiu-jitsu as a little kid.
10:58
SPEAKER_03: My brother was being bullied.
10:59
SPEAKER_03: My parents, we had a cousin who was at this school in Valley College, this guy named Jack Seki.
11:05
SPEAKER_03: Oh, Jujitsu.
11:05
SPEAKER_03: My parents put in Japan.
11:06
SPEAKER_03: Japanese jujitsu.
11:07
SPEAKER_03: My br my parents put me in.
11:09
SPEAKER_03: I was a little kid, so I grew up doing jujitsu, and I was bullied a bit, and the jiu-jitsu helped me growing up, but I was kind of known as the guy to not fuck with in high school and stuff.
11:17
SPEAKER_03: Really?
11:18
SPEAKER_03: Because there was this one guy, Greg, who tried to bully me in seventh grade in front of all the other guys.
11:25
SPEAKER_03: We were playing basketball, it was like summer school going into seventh grade at Millican Junior High School, and he took the ball, and he's like, I'm not giving you the ball.
11:32
SPEAKER_03: And all my friends look over at me because like David's the jujitsu guy, right?
11:35
SPEAKER_03: And they say, What are you gonna do?
11:37
SPEAKER_03: So I'm like, oh shit.
11:38
SPEAKER_03: And he's just like tough guy.
11:39
SPEAKER_03: Everyone's scared of him.
11:40
SPEAKER_03: I'm like, give me the ball back, right?
11:42
SPEAKER_03: And he goes, No, make me.
11:44
SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, give me the ball back.
11:46
SPEAKER_03: And he said something like, Let's fight for it.
11:49
SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, I don't want to fight.
11:50
SPEAKER_03: And he said, So you're a chicken.
11:52
SPEAKER_03: And I remember saying to him, Well, would you fight a chicken?
11:55
SPEAKER_03: Like, I just wanted to, and he said, like, yeah, and that kind of pissed me off, like, really, like you're a bully?
12:01
SPEAKER_03: And I just walked right up to him and smacked him, his jaw went up, he kneed him in the stomach, took him in a front headlock, pulling him up like he's having a hard time breathing, kneed him in the stomach again, put him on the ground, and I'm like, give me the fucking.
12:14
SPEAKER_03: And I like when I got the ball, and I kind of looked at him and like, you know, gave it back to my friends, and that was that.
12:19
SPEAKER_03: And that story, of course, got all around school.
12:22
SPEAKER_05: That you became a legend.
12:23
SPEAKER_03: Nobody would ever mess with me.
12:24
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's true.
12:25
SPEAKER_03: That was nice in high school.
12:26
SPEAKER_03: That was like junior high in high school.
12:28
SPEAKER_03: So I was teaching, I was never doing it for a living, never wanted to do it for a living.
12:31
SPEAKER_03: I was gonna be a musician.
12:33
SPEAKER_03: That's what my dad was a musician.
12:35
SPEAKER_03: My dad wrote songs that were recorded by Billy Holliday.
12:39
SPEAKER_03: Oh shit.
12:39
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and like all these people of his era, Tony Bennett and stuff like that.
12:44
SPEAKER_03: Oh shit.
12:44
SPEAKER_03: My dad was a musician, like in New York before I was born, right?
12:47
SPEAKER_03: Damn.
12:48
SPEAKER_03: Then he'd moved back out to the West Coast to raise his kids in the sun because he was from California and he got out of the music business.
12:53
SPEAKER_03: Although he did voice coaching for Elvis Presley in the movies.
12:56
SPEAKER_03: I got pictures of my dad with Elvis Presley as his voice coach in the movie.
13:00
SPEAKER_03: So I grew up in the shadow of this like music, you know, thing.
13:04
SPEAKER_03: That's how I got into music.
13:05
SPEAKER_03: I know we didn't, we never talked about it.
13:07
SPEAKER_05: That's the one thing.
13:07
SPEAKER_05: Like, I've known this guy forever, and he I came into jujitsu as a wannabe rock star, and you never brought up music to me.
13:14
SPEAKER_05: It's crazy.
13:15
SPEAKER_03: I always thought it was cool that you did music.
13:17
SPEAKER_03: I remember how long your hair was when you came in.
13:19
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
13:20
SPEAKER_03: Like you had this braided hair that's even braided, like went down to the center of your back.
13:24
SPEAKER_03: And you used to my the bottom lower back dog.
13:27
SPEAKER_03: I'm telling you, it's crazy.
13:30
SPEAKER_03: Come on.
13:30
SPEAKER_03: And then you would twist it up and wear and like put it in a bun or something, and then wear a shower cap over it to hold your hand.
13:36
SPEAKER_05: Not a shower cap, not a swim cap.
13:38
SPEAKER_05: So this is what happened with that.
13:40
SPEAKER_05: When I got into jujitsu, I had long hair down at my waist.
13:42
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
13:42
SPEAKER_05: I was like, I'm trying to be a rock star.
13:44
SPEAKER_05: I'm in Hollywood to be a rock star.
13:46
SPEAKER_05: I'm doing jujitsu and martial arts just to stay in shape.
13:49
SPEAKER_05: And I'm into martial arts without even doing it.
13:53
SPEAKER_05: I was like a Bruce Lee fanatic.
13:55
SPEAKER_05: But now I'm doing it to stay in shape because I'm gonna get a record deal and I'm gonna be playing a Detroit Tiger Stadium, and I don't want to be fat and out of shape.
14:03
SPEAKER_05: So I got to do something to stay in shape.
14:04
SPEAKER_05: So the martial arts were just first it was, you know, I tried weightlifting, I'm like, ah, fuck weightlifting.
14:10
SPEAKER_05: And then I got into karate.
14:11
SPEAKER_05: Then I saw UFC 2, and I'm like, okay, karate and shit, let me go to jujitsu.
14:17
SPEAKER_05: So I had long ass hair, so it's hard to grapple with long hair, you know, because imagine, even if you got a superior position, you had long hair down to your waist, you got a superior position.
14:29
SPEAKER_05: I mount, if I mount a guy, but my hair's hanging, he's gonna grab my hair and just yank it and pull it.
14:34
SPEAKER_05: So I always thought, like, damn, my I'm learning this awesome martial art, this ground fighting martial art, but my hair is gonna fuck me up.
14:44
SPEAKER_05: But I kept it and I would tie it up and I would put it in a ponytail and then tie it up like in an Axl Rose Brett Michaels type bandana.
14:53
SPEAKER_05: It was like a black and white one.
14:55
SPEAKER_05: You know those bandanas?
14:56
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
14:56
SPEAKER_05: There's like blue ones, there's red ones, but they're like gangster bandanas.
14:59
SPEAKER_05: I always had a black one because I ain't trying to claim no gang.
15:02
SPEAKER_05: I didn't want to wear a red one and get killed by a crip.
15:04
SPEAKER_05: I wear a blue one and blood's coming after me.
15:07
SPEAKER_05: I'm like, dude, I'm just trying to get bronze medal, and these want to kill me.
15:11
SPEAKER_05: I wore a black one.
15:12
SPEAKER_05: And then one dude at this was in the valley, but the headquarters, the Machado headquarters was still in Redondo.
15:20
SPEAKER_05: That was the first school.
15:21
SPEAKER_05: The the Valley, the Tarzana school was like a satellite.
15:25
SPEAKER_05: Right.
15:25
SPEAKER_05: And that's where I went.
15:26
SPEAKER_05: And but every now and then, like I would go to fucking HQ.
15:30
SPEAKER_05: I'd go to the motherland, so I could tell the people at the satellite school in the valley that, yeah, I'm going to HQ.
15:38
SPEAKER_05: I'm above you guys.
15:39
SPEAKER_05: Like, I'm actually going to H.
15:40
SPEAKER_05: I'm making that crazy drive from Hollywood to Hermosa Beach in traffic.
15:45
SPEAKER_05: That could take an hour and a half.
15:47
SPEAKER_05: I'm at Redondo one day and it's right on the beach.
15:50
SPEAKER_05: That school was like literally two blocks from the beach.
15:53
SPEAKER_05: Right.
15:54
SPEAKER_05: And a dude there who was like a diver, like a deep sea scuba diver, said, Yo, you should wear a Jacques Cousteau scuba diver.
16:01
SPEAKER_05: That's right.
16:02
SPEAKER_03: Now I remember.
16:03
SPEAKER_03: That's right.
16:04
SPEAKER_05: So it was basically a fucking deep sea diver hood.
16:09
SPEAKER_05: I remember now.
16:09
SPEAKER_05: Like a rubber thing for my hair.
16:12
SPEAKER_05: Because my hair, because it was hard to deal with the hair with the bandana and the hair tied up halfway through rolls.
16:17
SPEAKER_05: I'm always doing my hair.
16:18
SPEAKER_05: I'm always fucking so it was a hassle.
16:21
SPEAKER_03: It must have been so fucking hot.
16:23
SPEAKER_05: So it was a problem.
16:24
SPEAKER_05: So I remember it.
16:25
SPEAKER_05: So grappling with long hair was a problem.
16:27
SPEAKER_05: And the guys that had the long hair, they all did different things.
16:30
SPEAKER_05: And I was doing the ponytail and then the Brett Michaels, and it would just fall off.
16:37
SPEAKER_05: And then he was like, dude, wear a diver's hood.
16:41
SPEAKER_05: And I'm like, what?
16:42
SPEAKER_05: So I put on a I look like I'm Jacques Rousteau about to go do some deep sea diving.
16:47
SPEAKER_05: I remember now.
16:47
SPEAKER_05: But what I did was is I put big ass oversized wrestling ear guards over it to hide the fact that I was wearing a deep sea diving hood.
17:02
SPEAKER_05: Because I didn't need the ear guards.
17:03
SPEAKER_05: I didn't need it.
17:04
SPEAKER_05: Oh protected me.
17:06
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
17:06
SPEAKER_05: The rubber protected me.
17:08
SPEAKER_05: I had no need for ear guards, but the ear guards would disguise no one knew it was a diverse hood.
17:14
SPEAKER_05: They just see the big ass ear guards and like some thing underneath.
17:17
SPEAKER_03: But if I took them out, I would look like Jacques Rousseau.
17:20
SPEAKER_03: I remember when you finally cut your hair.
17:22
SPEAKER_03: I'm like, geez, that took you long enough.
17:24
SPEAKER_03: 97.
17:24
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it took you long enough.
17:25
SPEAKER_03: But anyway, so I had I was doing Japanese jujitsu.
17:28
SPEAKER_03: I was known.
17:29
SPEAKER_03: I had a club just for the fun of it, but I taught like not a lot of money, nothing like that.
17:33
SPEAKER_03: And then I don't want to tell, I don't want to tell this whole story.
17:36
SPEAKER_03: Basically, a guy walks in and says, Have you ever heard of the Gracie's?
17:39
SPEAKER_03: I'm like, never heard of him.
17:40
SPEAKER_03: What is it?
17:40
SPEAKER_03: And he shows me the Gracie Jiu-Jitsu in action.
17:42
SPEAKER_05: And you're you're in your school teaching.
17:44
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's it's a class I would teach at a center.
17:46
SPEAKER_03: Oh, okay.
17:47
SPEAKER_03: A guy walks in, he looks like a rough guy.
17:49
SPEAKER_03: He's watching the class.
17:50
SPEAKER_03: I'm like, all right, this is gonna be interesting.
17:51
SPEAKER_03: Afterwards, he said, You ever heard of the Gracie's?
17:53
SPEAKER_03: I'm like, no, who are they?
17:55
SPEAKER_03: Right?
17:55
SPEAKER_03: This we're talking now 1989, like something, or 89.
17:59
SPEAKER_05: Because UFC 2 was 94.
18:00
SPEAKER_05: This is before this is before the UFC win.
18:03
SPEAKER_03: No one had heard of anything.
18:04
SPEAKER_03: And he's like, shows me this tape, and I look at it, and I'm like, oh no, those guys are tough.
18:09
SPEAKER_03: That's jujitsu.
18:10
SPEAKER_03: He's like getting, they're like stomping guys' knees and putting them on the hard floor and then getting onto what I would have called Tate Shihogatami, which is the mount, four corner hold.
18:19
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
18:20
SPEAKER_03: And like the dudes are tough, but I couldn't appreciate from the tape.
18:22
SPEAKER_03: I'm like, those are like badass jiu-jitsu guys.
18:24
SPEAKER_03: I'm a badass jiu-jitsu guy, whatever.
18:26
SPEAKER_03: And he goes, no, no, no, there's something really good going on.
18:27
SPEAKER_03: And he rolls with me.
18:29
SPEAKER_03: And I have a really hard time with him.
18:31
SPEAKER_03: Now he's a big athletic guy, did some wrestling, but it took me a while to get him.
18:36
SPEAKER_03: So I'm like, how long have you been training?
18:38
SPEAKER_03: And he says, like, three months.
18:40
SPEAKER_03: With who?
18:41
SPEAKER_03: Hickson.
18:42
SPEAKER_03: Oh.
18:42
SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, you're lying.
18:43
SPEAKER_03: And he's like, no, no, I've been taking private lessons with this guy, Hickson.
18:46
SPEAKER_03: I'm like, then there's something going on there.
18:47
SPEAKER_03: It's just unbelievable to me.
18:49
SPEAKER_03: I've been training since I was six years old and had a hard time.
18:51
SPEAKER_03: So he gives me Hickson's number.
18:53
SPEAKER_03: So I call up Hickson.
18:54
SPEAKER_03: Hickson's super nice on the phone and say, hey, I just met one of your students.
18:57
SPEAKER_03: I'd like to come and take a private.
18:58
SPEAKER_03: He's super nice to me, blah, blah, blah.
19:00
SPEAKER_03: And I'm in the valley.
19:01
SPEAKER_03: I would live in the valley, right?
19:02
SPEAKER_03: And he's out in Redondo.
19:03
SPEAKER_03: And he says, it's like, I think it was like$100 or$150 for a private.
19:09
SPEAKER_03: Back then, that was like a month's training, right?
19:12
SPEAKER_03: That was a lot of money.
19:13
SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, man, this guy's good, but he's not that good.
19:15
SPEAKER_03: And I forgot about it.
19:16
SPEAKER_03: I like, I don't care.
19:18
SPEAKER_03: Forget it.
19:19
SPEAKER_03: Then, like two months later, some one of my old students who I know comes back who'd been training with Higgin.
19:24
SPEAKER_03: Higgin uh Machado.
19:26
SPEAKER_03: This is before Jean-Jacques came into the States.
19:28
SPEAKER_03: And he said, dude, have you heard of these guys?
19:30
SPEAKER_03: They're like the Machado's, the Grace.
19:31
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I just heard of them.
19:32
SPEAKER_03: And but I don't like, I kind of don't like the challenge thing.
19:34
SPEAKER_03: And it was too much money.
19:35
SPEAKER_03: And he goes, No, these the Machado guys are not doing the challenge.
19:38
SPEAKER_03: They're just like cool dudes.
19:39
SPEAKER_03: And I wrestle with him.
19:41
SPEAKER_03: And I beat him.
19:42
SPEAKER_03: But similarly, again, he had been my student.
19:44
SPEAKER_03: He had gotten so good.
19:46
SPEAKER_03: So I gotta check this out, gotta check this out.
19:48
SPEAKER_03: So finally, one day I get over to the Valley School.
19:50
SPEAKER_03: This was before Tarzan, where you started.
19:52
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
19:53
SPEAKER_03: This was in the Street Village.
19:55
SPEAKER_03: This was Encino, their first school that Chuck Norris arranged for.
19:58
SPEAKER_03: And it was still Carlos Gracie Jr.
19:59
SPEAKER_03: It was called Craig Carlos.
20:01
SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
20:01
SPEAKER_03: That's right.
20:02
SPEAKER_03: And I walk in there, and the first night I went in there, you mentioned about how the like the bad traffic and shit.
20:06
SPEAKER_03: It's a totally rainy night in Los Angeles.
20:08
SPEAKER_03: I walk in there and they say like the Machados can't make it because like the freeways are flooded.
20:13
SPEAKER_03: And there's some purple belt guy from Australia who's teaching the class.
20:17
SPEAKER_03: And like, what's this?
20:18
SPEAKER_03: Like, I'm a black belt.
20:19
SPEAKER_03: I came here to meet these guys, and there's some weird purple belt from Australian named John Will teaching the class in from Australia.
20:25
SPEAKER_03: So I said, Hey, sir, I'm gonna put on a white belt just to respect you, because I'm actually black belt, but you're teaching the class, you're a purple belt, I'll put on a white belt.
20:33
SPEAKER_03: And he taught a really good class, and then he wrestles with me.
20:36
SPEAKER_03: And he wiped the mat with me, like I did with you.
20:39
SPEAKER_03: Tap, tap, tap, tap, tap.
20:41
SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, wait, you're a purple belt?
20:44
SPEAKER_03: How good are the black belts?
20:45
SPEAKER_03: And he said, Why don't you come back and find out?
20:48
SPEAKER_03: The next day I come back, like two days later, and Hagen is there.
20:50
SPEAKER_03: Oh my god.
20:51
SPEAKER_03: And that was my experience, also like yours.
20:53
SPEAKER_03: Hagin is now this we're talking to like a young mid-20s year old Highan.
20:59
SPEAKER_03: Oh no, no, back then he was like 190.
21:01
SPEAKER_05: Oh, okay.
21:02
SPEAKER_03: And I was 180.
21:02
SPEAKER_03: I mean it was similar size.
21:04
SPEAKER_03: And he was the current four-time champion in Brazil.
21:07
SPEAKER_03: He was in his peak.
21:08
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
21:09
SPEAKER_03: And super nicest guy in the world.
21:12
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
21:12
SPEAKER_03: And we start rolling, and he's very respectful, like my jujitsu, my black belt, all that stuff.
21:17
SPEAKER_03: And he starts playing with me without using his hands.
21:20
SPEAKER_03: And he's putting me in triangles and shoulder locks and shit without and sweeping me without using his hands, just with his legs.
21:27
SPEAKER_03: And he's not getting it.
21:28
SPEAKER_05: I was talking about this drill today for the first time, and like I brought it up today.
21:32
SPEAKER_05: The drill.
21:33
SPEAKER_05: Because everyone's talking about like ecological.
21:35
SPEAKER_05: And I'm like, you know what I mean?
21:36
SPEAKER_05: Live drills?
21:37
SPEAKER_05: It's like, why are you changing why are you calling it ecological now?
21:39
SPEAKER_05: Just live drills.
21:40
SPEAKER_05: Like, oh, they're games now.
21:42
SPEAKER_05: Oh, they're games?
21:43
SPEAKER_05: They're just live drills.
21:44
SPEAKER_05: It's like standard in jujitsu.
21:45
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah.
21:46
SPEAKER_05: Oh, they're games now?
21:47
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, there's nothing to do.
21:48
SPEAKER_05: Exactly.
21:48
SPEAKER_05: Like, like, so we were just talking about that today, and I'm like, you know, the first game I learned was passing the guard, but the guy on bottom could only use his legs and not his hands.
21:58
SPEAKER_05: That's how you get a good guard.
22:00
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, we were talking about that today.
22:01
SPEAKER_05: He just brought it up.
22:02
SPEAKER_03: So he would toyed with me, toyed with me.
22:04
SPEAKER_03: I just couldn't believe it.
22:05
SPEAKER_03: And I remember I had my school, it wasn't my professional school, I was doing it for fun.
22:08
SPEAKER_03: And I trained, I signed up immediately.
22:10
SPEAKER_03: I think Carlos was there too, Carlos Machado.
22:13
SPEAKER_03: Maybe a month or two later, Jean-Jacques showed up for the first time, didn't speak a word of English.
22:18
SPEAKER_03: He was probably in his mid-20s, but he looked so skinny and young.
22:21
SPEAKER_03: And people don't know this.
22:22
SPEAKER_03: He was the main instructor of Gracie Baja.
22:24
SPEAKER_03: Like everybody loved Jean-Jacques.
22:26
SPEAKER_03: When he left, he basically handed the school over to Carlos Gracie Jr., right?
22:29
SPEAKER_03: Who now does IBGJF.
22:31
SPEAKER_03: And Jean-Jacques is this little guy, doesn't speak a word of English, just smiling.
22:35
SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, what's this gonna be like?
22:37
SPEAKER_03: It's still 89, 90?
22:38
SPEAKER_03: This would have been now 990.
22:40
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
22:40
SPEAKER_03: I think 90.
22:41
SPEAKER_05: Still four years before the explosion.
22:43
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, exactly.
22:44
SPEAKER_03: And I wrestled with Jean-Jacques, and he's like, well, you know, he's just unbelievable.
22:49
SPEAKER_03: And but he doesn't speak English.
22:51
SPEAKER_03: So all he's doing is just like smiling.
22:53
SPEAKER_03: He's just smiling at me, smiling.
22:55
SPEAKER_03: And so that was how I got into it.
22:56
SPEAKER_03: That's why I got in early.
22:58
SPEAKER_03: And then I was there when the UFC started out.
23:00
SPEAKER_03: We sat and watched with Machado Brothers, the first UFC.
23:03
SPEAKER_03: I never I never trained with Hoyce.
23:04
SPEAKER_03: It wasn't part of his training because there was like this friction between the Machados over the name, and Hoyce was with Horian.
23:11
SPEAKER_03: And there was a little bit of friction going on there at the time.
23:13
SPEAKER_03: But anyway, that's how I got in.
23:15
SPEAKER_03: That's why I was a purple button.
23:16
SPEAKER_03: I was the most senior guy in the valley, but I had started training.
23:19
SPEAKER_03: I also wanted to be, I actually moved down to Redondo Beach to train with like the good guys.
23:23
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, the mothership.
23:25
SPEAKER_03: Well, Bob Bass, you know, and that's where the five brothers were.
23:28
SPEAKER_03: And I mean, I could tell you so many stories.
23:30
SPEAKER_03: But I just wanted to say something about the Johnny assigning me on you or whatever.
23:33
SPEAKER_03: There was a rule at that time, like you you want to show people why they're there.
23:38
unknown: Yes.
23:38
SPEAKER_03: Right?
23:38
SPEAKER_03: So you don't want to hurt somebody, but like you gotta show them why they're there.
23:42
SPEAKER_05: No, no, we do that here all the time.
23:43
SPEAKER_05: A new guy comes in, he wants to try it out.
23:45
SPEAKER_05: I'll send him a guy, go just only get them in stuff that's unorthodox.
23:51
SPEAKER_05: That's what I do.
23:52
SPEAKER_05: Like when I went and taught Sheik Tak Noon, he flew me out because he flies out a bunch of jujitsu guys back in the day, not so much anymore.
23:59
SPEAKER_05: You know, the creator and the founder of ADCC.
24:01
SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
24:02
SPEAKER_03: The prince.
24:03
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, the prince.
24:04
SPEAKER_05: When I went out there, I was just like, I'm just gonna it, I'm only gonna use stuff that he's never seen before.
24:11
SPEAKER_05: Just like twister stuff, yeah, electric chair, rubber guard stuff, just to sell the product, really.
24:16
SPEAKER_03: And that's what you guys are doing.
24:17
SPEAKER_03: That's what it was.
24:18
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
24:18
SPEAKER_03: And we had a job to do when you were, you were just like a regular person coming in to check it out.
24:22
SPEAKER_03: But a lot of times, especially before the UFC, yeah, people were coming to fight us.
24:26
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
24:26
SPEAKER_03: And we would tell them, like, that's not us, that's Hickson, you're in the wrong school.
24:30
SPEAKER_03: But you know, the school said Gracie on it, right?
24:32
SPEAKER_03: And people came ready for a fight.
24:34
SPEAKER_03: They wanted to fight, and like Higgin would assign me, like he would used to call me his big fish, like, you gotta go through my guy.
24:41
SPEAKER_03: And guys would be biting, eye gouging, pressure point, I mean, full contact.
24:46
SPEAKER_03: So you were the gatekeeper.
24:48
SPEAKER_03: It's so funny because I was down at John Jocks recently, and you know Mark Armstrong, his black, he was telling people that I was the enforcer, right?
24:55
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so and it just depended.
24:57
SPEAKER_03: If the person was really famous, you'd they'd go right to Higgin or what.
25:00
SPEAKER_03: But if it's just some Yahoo who wants to fight, and I had this thing where, okay, so they're coming in, they're trying to take my head off.
25:08
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no problem.
25:09
SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna go in under the radar.
25:10
SPEAKER_03: And I also had a whole lifetime of fighting.
25:12
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so that's why Higgin would kind of trust me with that.
25:14
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so I wasn't just like a blue belt in jujitsu, I was a good black belt hide kickbox I could fight.
25:20
SPEAKER_03: I'd get in under the radar, take the person down, you know the story, get on top, get on the mount, they turn their back, slap, slap, slap, choke them out, right?
25:27
SPEAKER_03: They're like, I'm gonna go again.
25:28
SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, oh.
25:29
SPEAKER_05: Three times, always three.
25:30
SPEAKER_03: That's exactly my story.
25:32
SPEAKER_03: So here's the thing.
25:33
SPEAKER_03: So then the second time we do it again, but now they're cautious, Eddie, right?
25:36
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, now they're like, well, well, it's not there's something going on here.
25:38
SPEAKER_03: So they're being a little standoff as they're trying to pick their strikes, still trying to take my head off.
25:42
SPEAKER_03: But I'd still get them.
25:43
SPEAKER_03: Might get nicked or something, but still get them, or they'd be throwing their spinning back kick or spinning back fist.
25:48
SPEAKER_03: You gotta watch out for that shit.
25:49
SPEAKER_03: Take them down, choke them at again.
25:51
SPEAKER_03: Then he says, I want to go one more time.
25:53
SPEAKER_03: And at that point, I would say, listen, bro.
25:55
SPEAKER_03: One more time.
25:56
SPEAKER_03: You have tapped, I would say you have tapped out twice.
25:59
SPEAKER_03: I cannot tap out to your foot when it's a half an inch away from my breaking my face, right?
26:04
SPEAKER_03: So I'm risking injury every time, and I'm I've let you go twice.
26:08
SPEAKER_03: So if you want to go a third time, I will go with you a third time, but I will not let you go.
26:12
SPEAKER_03: I'm going to injure you.
26:14
SPEAKER_03: So it's up to you.
26:15
SPEAKER_03: If you want to do it a third time and you think the third time's a charm and you think you can take me, but I'm not gonna let you tap again, I'm going to break your arm.
26:22
SPEAKER_03: Nobody ever, ever, ever took me on the third one.
26:25
SPEAKER_03: And I would have.
26:26
SPEAKER_03: I mean, I fucked up some people's arms.
26:28
SPEAKER_03: We had people come through who needed to be injured, and we would do that back at the time.
26:31
SPEAKER_03: I got stories about that too.
26:32
SPEAKER_03: In fact, it's really funny, it's one of the only times I remember Jean-Jacques being upset with me.
26:38
SPEAKER_03: The other one I told you before the story, or before we started recording, and I won't tell that story.
26:43
SPEAKER_03: But so we were supposed to like impress people.
26:46
SPEAKER_03: But sometimes when someone like important would come through, like you have respect.
26:49
SPEAKER_03: Like Bill Wallace, you know, Bill Superfoot Wallace, they had told me the story of Chuck Norris had brought Bill Superfoot to chain and he had some judo stuff and said they were nice to him, and he walked away not really appreciating it, like saying stuff like, Oh, those guys are good, but it's nothing new.
27:05
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and so they told me, like, don't do that, don't let that go.
27:09
SPEAKER_03: So Mike Swain, who was a world you know, judo champion and his Swain mats and stuff.
27:14
SPEAKER_03: I knew Mike.
27:15
SPEAKER_03: He came by to train at John Jock's place.
27:17
SPEAKER_03: It was in Tarzana, not exactly where you started, they were in a different uh unit in there.
27:20
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
27:21
SPEAKER_03: And John Jacques says, Okay, he's yours.
27:24
SPEAKER_03: But I knew Mike and I respected him, and so I wanted to like be nice.
27:29
SPEAKER_03: And so we trained, and he was a good judo guy, but I put him in my guard and almost put him in the triangle, did a few things, whatever.
27:35
SPEAKER_03: I was just showing the stuff.
27:36
SPEAKER_03: I just thought I'll be cool, I'll impress him, but I'm not gonna like I don't want to embarrass him, right?
27:41
SPEAKER_03: We're done, and like he's tired, and then Jean-Jacques's looking at me, and I'm like, I want to be respectful.
27:47
SPEAKER_03: So Jean-Jacques says, Mike, let's train.
27:48
SPEAKER_03: And Mike says, No, I'm sorry, I'm tired.
27:51
SPEAKER_03: And it's like, so he didn't train with Jean-Jacques, he didn't get the best of me, and Jean-Jacques read me the act after that.
27:57
SPEAKER_03: Like, dude, when I set you to train with someone, you gotta show them why they're there.
28:01
SPEAKER_03: And I felt really bad about that.
28:02
SPEAKER_03: But Mike appreciates it.
28:03
SPEAKER_03: Mike's a great guy, he understands the power.
28:05
SPEAKER_03: And I don't know, like after UFC started, which is when you came in, those challenges stopped.
28:10
SPEAKER_03: The real fight challenges stopped.
28:12
SPEAKER_03: What we then had was Gene bringing Go-Kar's people in, right?
28:16
SPEAKER_03: And all and Bart Vale, I don't know if you know heard that story.
28:20
SPEAKER_03: Gene brought in Bart Vale.
28:22
SPEAKER_03: Bart Vale gets on the mat.
28:23
SPEAKER_03: This was an encino with Higgin, and throws a spinning back kick and just grazes Higgin's nose, and like Higgin, like, are we fighting or is this grappling?
28:32
SPEAKER_03: And Bart Vale kind of smiled and said, No, no, no, I'm just playing.
28:35
SPEAKER_03: And Higgin was like, no.
28:38
SPEAKER_03: And Higin gets in there, pulls Bart Vale to the guard, and dislocates Bart Vale shorter.
28:42
SPEAKER_03: Bart Vale's gigantic.
28:43
SPEAKER_03: I don't know if you remember.
28:43
SPEAKER_03: No, no, I remember.
28:44
SPEAKER_03: It's gigantic.
28:45
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
28:45
SPEAKER_03: So we had we had like challenges, but they after the UFC, they weren't actual fight challenges.
28:51
SPEAKER_03: They were more like Gene always bringing some crazy ass guy to see can they beat the Machados?
28:57
SPEAKER_03: Can they beat the Machados?
28:58
SPEAKER_05: Didn't he bring in like Ken Shamrock in once too?
29:00
SPEAKER_03: Oh my god, I was there.
29:02
SPEAKER_03: Okay, so I don't know if it was Geneva.
29:06
SPEAKER_05: Yes, that's exactly right.
29:08
SPEAKER_03: Okay, this is so funny you remember that.
29:09
SPEAKER_03: I didn't know that Gene set that up.
29:11
SPEAKER_03: Okay, so this was in Redondo Beach.
29:13
SPEAKER_03: Higgin calls me, calls Bob, says, gotta get it, gotta get into the school, train today, because Ken Shamrock's coming by.
29:19
SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, cool, I want to roll with Ken Shamrock, right?
29:22
SPEAKER_03: So we get to the school in Redondo Beach, and me, I think Rick Williams might have been there, who got his black belt same day as me.
29:28
SPEAKER_03: Maybe Chris Howder might have been there.
29:30
SPEAKER_03: So I don't remember what belt we were at the time.
29:32
SPEAKER_03: We were probably purple belts or something at the time.
29:34
SPEAKER_05: 95.
29:34
SPEAKER_03: Brown belts, maybe purple or brown.
29:36
SPEAKER_03: I think I got my black belt in 96.
29:38
SPEAKER_03: Same day as Howder, same day as Rick Williams.
29:41
SPEAKER_03: So we're all ready to go, and in comes Ken Shamrock, who we had seen at the UFC.
29:46
SPEAKER_03: Big dude.
29:48
SPEAKER_03: And he's with Funaki?
29:50
SPEAKER_03: Is that the guy's name?
29:51
SPEAKER_03: Like the founder of Pancras, a similar Japanese fighter, like these two monsters come in.
29:56
SPEAKER_03: And all these little Japanese guys with cameras, like the press, the media.
30:01
SPEAKER_03: It's the Bradano, the little school.
30:02
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
30:03
SPEAKER_03: So it was kind of hole in wall school, right?
30:04
SPEAKER_03: So they're all sitting in the front on the street side, they're all there, and I'm like, holy shit.
30:09
SPEAKER_03: And then we're we're looking at Higgin like, let me go, Higgin, let me take him first.
30:12
SPEAKER_03: Like, I'm your big fish, I'm your big fish.
30:14
SPEAKER_03: And because we all just wanted the chance to get Shamrock to see if we could.
30:18
SPEAKER_03: And he's like, no, because if there were cameras and stuff, he wanted to be sure this was done right.
30:22
SPEAKER_03: Johnny was there, Jean-Jacques was there, Carl, I think he, I think all the brothers there, Carlos was there.
30:27
SPEAKER_03: So now I gotta say, Ken was very respectful.
30:31
SPEAKER_03: Like he he was very nice, very contrite.
30:34
SPEAKER_03: He put on a ghee, which he didn't have to do, and he started rolling with the brothers with the ghee.
30:39
SPEAKER_03: And obviously, you know, so he started with the Higgin.
30:42
SPEAKER_03: Higin taps him out, of course.
30:44
SPEAKER_03: He may tell this separately, he may remember this differently, but this is how I remember it.
30:48
SPEAKER_03: The Machado, they tapped him out and tapped out the Japanese guy.
30:51
SPEAKER_03: Then Jean-Jacques, the smaller of the brothers, gets in there, taps them out too.
30:56
SPEAKER_05: Did Funaki also put a gi on?
30:59
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
30:59
SPEAKER_03: That's my memory.
31:00
SPEAKER_03: And then, although memory's a weird thing, but yeah, that's my memory.
31:03
SPEAKER_03: And then they said, Can we take the ghee off?
31:05
SPEAKER_03: Which I thought was fine.
31:06
SPEAKER_03: And so they did that, and then Higgin rolled with him without the ghee.
31:09
SPEAKER_03: I don't remember how it went, but the Matados definitely did not lose.
31:12
SPEAKER_03: And and I just remember being impressed that those guys came in and they like they checked it out, right?
31:18
SPEAKER_03: They didn't, they they're evil.
31:19
SPEAKER_03: You wanted to feel it.
31:20
SPEAKER_03: They wanted to feel it.
31:21
SPEAKER_05: Well that rimatch was coming up and he wanted to get a gauge.
31:23
SPEAKER_05: Like, damn, what yeah is this?
31:25
SPEAKER_05: What kind of a danger am I facing here?
31:28
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so but we didn't get like we were all so frustrated because we were all like, I don't know, like dogs held back on leashes, like I want to go, but Higgin didn't unleash us.
31:38
SPEAKER_03: But yeah, I remember that, and that was the kind of thing that would happen all the time back then, right?
31:42
SPEAKER_03: Okay, so enough on stories like that.
31:44
SPEAKER_03: I want to talk about 10th planet and stuff and you.
31:46
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
31:46
SPEAKER_03: But I because I could go all day long on and we could sometimes.
31:49
SPEAKER_03: I've got tons of stories.
31:51
SPEAKER_03: I got crazy shit stories.
31:53
SPEAKER_03: I can tell you, like, or Higgin would put me to WrestleGuys.
31:55
SPEAKER_03: Okay, I'll tell you one that you'll appreciate.
31:56
SPEAKER_03: Rico Rodriguez, right?
31:58
SPEAKER_03: Remember Rico.
31:59
SPEAKER_03: He started training.
32:01
SPEAKER_05: Let's see, heavyweight champion, Rico Rodriguez.
32:03
SPEAKER_03: Randy Couture, who, by the way, I'm gonna be interviewing next week at in Vegas.
32:07
SPEAKER_03: Hell yeah.
32:07
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
32:07
SPEAKER_03: Higgin tells me to come on down.
32:09
SPEAKER_03: Rico's there, I've never met the guy.
32:11
SPEAKER_03: He's big, right?
32:13
SPEAKER_03: He was like two, I don't know, 240, 250, big.
32:16
SPEAKER_05: Depending on what era, Rico.
32:17
SPEAKER_05: Rico came in like over 300 pounds.
32:19
SPEAKER_03: Okay, so he might have been like 280, but that sounded much.
32:23
SPEAKER_03: Okay, so he was around 280.
32:24
SPEAKER_03: So I'm like 180, whatever.
32:25
SPEAKER_03: Higgin introduces me to him, says he's a wrestler, wants to train jiu-jitsu.
32:29
SPEAKER_03: He's training.
32:29
SPEAKER_03: And I'm just listening to Rico, and there was another Rico too.
32:32
SPEAKER_03: Rico Chopparelli used to turn to this also.
32:34
SPEAKER_05: High-level D1 wrestler.
32:36
SPEAKER_03: Super high level, great instructor.
32:38
SPEAKER_03: I took a few classes with Rico Caparelli, but I never, he was never, I don't think he was doing much of jujitsu grappling on the ground.
32:44
SPEAKER_03: I think he was teaching wrestling.
32:45
SPEAKER_03: But Rico Rodriguez wanted to learn jujitsu.
32:48
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
32:49
SPEAKER_03: So I'm listening to him talk to Higgin, and I'm just, I'm like, I hate this guy.
32:54
SPEAKER_03: Like he's New York, New Jersey, and I could kick that guy's ass stuff.
32:58
SPEAKER_03: And it's like, oh, I've been taking steroids, but I got bitch tit.
33:01
SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, what the fuck is bitch tit?
33:03
SPEAKER_03: And it's like, you know what you get when you have steroids, you get like a breast or whatever.
33:07
SPEAKER_03: And that's like everything about Rico Rodriguez.
33:09
SPEAKER_03: When I met him that day, like I hated him.
33:12
SPEAKER_03: I just thought, like, I'm gonna wreck him, right?
33:15
SPEAKER_03: We rolled, again, Rico might remember it differently.
33:17
SPEAKER_03: My memory was, and he had a Gion.
33:19
SPEAKER_03: This wasn't wrestling, obviously it was wrestling.
33:21
SPEAKER_03: He'd smash me, obviously.
33:23
SPEAKER_03: Jiu-jitsu.
33:24
SPEAKER_03: Tap him out, tap him out, tap him out.
33:26
SPEAKER_03: And then kind of over the days and weeks, we start talking and we end up becoming like really close friends.
33:31
SPEAKER_03: Because I just kind of loved him.
33:33
SPEAKER_03: And he'd gone through like a breakup, and I was going through a breakup at the time, and he was teaching over at like uh he he was the managing at Gold's Gym, got me into Gold's Gym.
33:41
SPEAKER_03: So we become like really good friends and became training partners through a lot of that time.
33:46
SPEAKER_02: Hell yeah.
33:46
SPEAKER_03: But so sometimes people come into fight and sometimes they end up becoming friends because of it, right?
33:50
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, all right.
33:51
SPEAKER_03: But I want to ask you, I can tell you so many more stories about Jean-Jacques and shit like that.
33:55
SPEAKER_03: You know, I went and did judo competitions with them.
33:57
SPEAKER_03: Did you know that?
33:58
SPEAKER_03: I was the fifth brother.
33:59
SPEAKER_03: I didn't know that.
34:00
SPEAKER_03: There was no jujitsu, right?
34:02
SPEAKER_03: So Higgin wanted to compete, and Jan Jacques wanted to compete.
34:05
SPEAKER_03: So they would not.
34:05
SPEAKER_05: You guys did Sambo too, right?
34:07
SPEAKER_03: They jumped in.
34:07
SPEAKER_03: I didn't do the Sambo with them.
34:09
SPEAKER_03: Higgin went to the National Sambo Championship with John Will.
34:12
SPEAKER_03: They jumped in.
34:12
SPEAKER_03: Higgin didn't even know the rules and he won, and they took second in the world.
34:16
SPEAKER_03: And there are rules, like you can't do certain things like in Sambo.
34:19
SPEAKER_03: And Jan Jacques also they went to wrestling tournaments.
34:21
SPEAKER_03: They didn't even know the rules of wrestling or whatever.
34:24
SPEAKER_03: They just said can't choke them, can't arm bar them, whatever, get them down.
34:27
SPEAKER_03: They won in like state wrestling stuff.
34:29
SPEAKER_03: And in judo, I set them up with judo tournaments, but Hajier is not in, he's the fifth brother.
34:34
SPEAKER_03: He is not really that into competing.
34:36
SPEAKER_03: Hajier is just a musician, guy, whatever.
34:39
SPEAKER_03: Nothing is musicians, but whatever.
34:40
SPEAKER_03: So I was the fifth brother.
34:41
SPEAKER_03: So I was a blue belt at the time.
34:43
SPEAKER_03: And meet we started going to local judo competitions.
34:46
SPEAKER_03: And I went with Hagen one time and I put on a black belt because I was a black belt in my style of jiu-jitsu, I was a blue belt in Brazilian jujitsu, and we wrecked people, man.
34:55
SPEAKER_03: I just dragged them to the ground, tapped them out, whatever.
34:57
SPEAKER_03: They they got smart pretty quick.
34:59
SPEAKER_03: They would start playing around the line, right?
35:01
SPEAKER_03: So they would try to enter for their throw, give the back, we'd get the back, but then they'd fall out of the line.
35:06
SPEAKER_03: They were smart players to not let the game keep going in the middle.
35:10
SPEAKER_03: And then the referees would like break it really fast because they saw it was going on too.
35:14
SPEAKER_03: But there was one time when I went with all five, all four Machado brothers, like Jean-Jacques, Carlos, John, Higgin, and me.
35:20
SPEAKER_03: I was a fifth brother.
35:21
SPEAKER_03: And it was this five-person tournament, right?
35:24
SPEAKER_03: Where it's five against five, heaviest to lightest.
35:27
SPEAKER_03: Doesn't matter if they're twice your weight, it's just the heaviest to lightest.
35:31
SPEAKER_03: And we ended up taking second.
35:32
SPEAKER_03: I won three of my matches, I lost two, whatever.
35:35
SPEAKER_03: We took second place.
35:36
SPEAKER_03: And I remember Jean-Jacques, like, let's get out of here.
35:39
SPEAKER_03: Like it was over, we spent all day there.
35:41
SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, no, I want to get the medal, right?
35:43
SPEAKER_03: Second place medal.
35:43
SPEAKER_03: And Jean-Jacques looks at me, he's like, second place is the is like the first loser.
35:48
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
35:48
SPEAKER_03: And he says that to me, I'd never heard that before.
35:50
SPEAKER_03: And I looked at him and said, like, well, it's the second winner.
35:55
SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
35:56
SPEAKER_03: Like, I wanted my medal.
35:57
SPEAKER_03: I beat like a Pan Am judo champion that day.
36:00
SPEAKER_03: I tapped him out.
36:00
SPEAKER_03: Like, I wanted my medal.
36:02
SPEAKER_03: But Jean-Jacques was very serious.
36:03
SPEAKER_03: Jean-Jacques was all about winning.
36:05
SPEAKER_03: So let's just talk about Hoiler for a second, because this ties into that.
36:09
SPEAKER_03: So you had gotten so good, and you went to the first ADCC, and it was like the shot heard around the world.
36:17
SPEAKER_03: Before that, the biggest thing I think of in upset was Bob Bass beating Marcio Fertosa.
36:22
SPEAKER_03: They were brown belts, they came for the first Pan Am.
36:25
SPEAKER_03: Marcio Fertosa had never lost a match.
36:27
SPEAKER_03: Bob Bass beat him.
36:29
SPEAKER_03: I had a really high pressure match before that with I fought Hickson's top brown belt.
36:34
SPEAKER_03: I had a student and we fought to a 0-0.
36:36
SPEAKER_05: What's his name?
36:37
SPEAKER_03: Mark Eckert at the time.
36:38
SPEAKER_05: Oh, I remember that guy, yeah.
36:39
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that was a lot of pressure on me.
36:41
SPEAKER_03: I mean, I was the right weight because we had Bob Bass was brown belt.
36:44
SPEAKER_03: We had Chris Howter, I was the right weight.
36:45
SPEAKER_03: I got put against him.
36:46
SPEAKER_03: I had Higgin in my in one corner.
36:48
SPEAKER_03: Hickson at the police academy in Los Angeles.
36:51
SPEAKER_03: And that was my first tournament.
36:53
SPEAKER_03: I fought.
36:54
SPEAKER_03: Did you fight in that tournament?
36:55
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that was my first tournament.
36:55
SPEAKER_03: Okay, so I was a brown belt.
36:57
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
36:57
SPEAKER_03: That's awesome, Eddie.
36:58
SPEAKER_03: So I don't know if you remember this, but it was like a super fight thing, and I pulled to my guard.
37:03
SPEAKER_03: My guard was wicked good back then.
37:05
SPEAKER_03: Like I could sweep black belts, and Mark was like super base, as you would expect from a Hickson black belt, right?
37:10
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
37:11
SPEAKER_03: And I just remember it was like quiet.
37:13
SPEAKER_03: You could hear a pin drop, and we're like fighting this technical fight, fighting this technical fight.
37:16
SPEAKER_03: And I kept trying to set Mark up for a sweep because I was tricky.
37:20
SPEAKER_03: And freaking Hickson was in my head.
37:23
SPEAKER_03: Hickson was like, Don't lift your right knee.
37:26
SPEAKER_03: Put your weight on your right knee.
37:28
SPEAKER_03: Remove his hand.
37:29
SPEAKER_03: He could Hickson could see everything I was trying to set up and was correctly telling Mark exactly what to do to stop it.
37:35
SPEAKER_03: And I almost wanted to stop the match and say, shut up.
37:38
SPEAKER_03: Like, get out of my head.
37:39
SPEAKER_03: And of course, Higgin was my side, and he couldn't pass my guard.
37:42
SPEAKER_03: And I remember like with like a minute, it was 10-minute matches, right?
37:46
SPEAKER_03: Maybe a minute left, Higgin says to me, David, do you see?
37:49
SPEAKER_03: Do you see?
37:50
SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, what's he saying?
37:51
SPEAKER_03: And they're like, oh, he can't pass my guard.
37:54
SPEAKER_03: It's not he's not passing that guard, he can't.
37:56
SPEAKER_03: I need to open up now and take some chances.
37:59
SPEAKER_03: And so I tried to throw him into an armbar.
38:01
SPEAKER_03: He stands up, he gets away, we get up, I shoot in, double leg, he sprawls again.
38:04
SPEAKER_03: I tried to pull the guard, it ends.
38:06
SPEAKER_03: No points.
38:06
SPEAKER_03: He was on top most of the time, because passing my guard, and that used to be what would get you the win.
38:11
SPEAKER_03: But then I did this whole explosion at the end and all this stuff.
38:14
SPEAKER_03: Joe Merera was the referee.
38:17
SPEAKER_03: Everybody's screaming, Dave, Mark, Dave, Mark, he's got Higgin screaming in one ear.
38:20
SPEAKER_03: He's got Higgson screaming the other.
38:21
SPEAKER_03: I'm like, I feel bad for Joe Morera, because those are like the two big heavyweights in the world.
38:26
SPEAKER_03: And then they raise Mark's hand because Hickson still had more clout.
38:29
SPEAKER_03: But Mark turns to me and says that was a tie.
38:32
SPEAKER_03: But anyway, the real biggest fight was you against Heuler.
38:37
SPEAKER_03: Higin always said that of the Machado brothers, Jean-Jacques, pound for pound, was better than him, was the best.
38:44
SPEAKER_03: But of the whole Gracie family, pound for pound, Hoyler was the best.
38:49
SPEAKER_03: And you beat him.
38:51
SPEAKER_03: I'm just wondering how did that like that totally it must have changed your life?
38:56
SPEAKER_03: What would have happened had that gone a different way?
38:58
SPEAKER_03: How would your life have gone differently if that the tap heard round the world?
39:01
SPEAKER_03: Let's just call it that.
39:02
SPEAKER_05: I'd be still DJing at strip clubs.
39:05
SPEAKER_05: Really?
39:06
SPEAKER_05: If that didn't happen, probably.
39:08
SPEAKER_03: That changed my life.
39:10
SPEAKER_03: It was so amazing.
39:11
SPEAKER_03: We'll link to it.
39:12
SPEAKER_03: People should watch it online.
39:13
SPEAKER_03: You had such an unorthodox game, which I'm gonna ask you about the whole thing that turned into 10th planet and kind of where that came from.
39:19
SPEAKER_03: But it was just phenomenal.
39:22
SPEAKER_03: It was unbelievable.
39:23
SPEAKER_03: It was luck.
39:24
SPEAKER_03: No, I don't think so.
39:25
SPEAKER_03: Do you know what?
39:26
SPEAKER_03: I remember going into it when we knew that fight was happening.
39:28
SPEAKER_03: I was saying, I think Eddie can get him, right?
39:32
SPEAKER_03: I didn't think you were a better overall in all areas grappler than Hoyler Gracie.
39:37
SPEAKER_03: Oh.
39:38
SPEAKER_03: Well, because no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
39:40
SPEAKER_03: Well, no, because he's been doing it since he was a little kid.
39:43
SPEAKER_03: Well, think that as a compliment.
39:44
SPEAKER_03: He's been doing it since he was a little kid, right?
39:46
SPEAKER_03: So he had this very well-randed game.
39:48
SPEAKER_03: But you had developed something that was so specific that you could like, if you can't stop that, I don't care how good you are, I don't care if you're Hoyler Gracie.
39:56
SPEAKER_03: If you can't deal with what Eddie's giving you, you're gonna tap out.
39:59
SPEAKER_03: Gene LaBelle used to say that to me all the time.
40:01
SPEAKER_03: That's why he was really trying to get us in foot attacks.
40:03
SPEAKER_03: He was like, Dave, I don't care how good you are.
40:05
SPEAKER_03: A guy's got nothing but a footlock.
40:07
SPEAKER_03: You could lose to him.
40:08
SPEAKER_03: I don't care if he's a white belt.
40:09
SPEAKER_03: If he's like a black belt at one technique, footlock.
40:11
SPEAKER_03: And he couldn't pass your guard.
40:13
SPEAKER_03: I mean, people can just watch it away.
40:15
SPEAKER_03: He did pass my guard, actually, but I recovered.
40:18
SPEAKER_05: You did jailbreak or something like that.
40:19
SPEAKER_05: Exactly.
40:20
SPEAKER_05: But he did he did pass a couple times that I would recover with the jailbreak.
40:24
SPEAKER_05: And that was really what got me the match, that jailbreak.
40:28
SPEAKER_05: Because it was 45 seconds left.
40:31
SPEAKER_05: He was on top in my full guard.
40:33
SPEAKER_05: He was winning on points.
40:36
SPEAKER_05: He didn't have to try to pass my guard and be aggressive.
40:39
SPEAKER_05: But because he was aggressive and didn't just ride the timeout and just beat me on points, he knee sliced into my guard and got side control.
40:50
SPEAKER_05: I jailbreaked him, which is a side control recovery, and it went right into overhook, into my Jean-Jacques.
40:59
SPEAKER_05: No, it was there was no more no more rubber guard after that.
41:02
SPEAKER_05: It was all Jean-Jacques overhook, fake the sweet, he bases, stuffed his wrist, triangle, boom.
41:09
SPEAKER_05: It was all Jean-Jacques, 100%.
41:12
SPEAKER_05: And it was like, I didn't remember any of it when it happened.
41:14
SPEAKER_05: I, because I had been playing Rubber Guard before, like a few minutes before, I was throwing Rubber Guard at him, primitive Rubberguard, the beginnings of Rubberguard.
41:23
SPEAKER_05: So it wasn't, I was still throwing it up, but it wasn't like it wasn't fine-tuned like it became later.
41:30
SPEAKER_05: But it was all such a blur that I was backstage thinking that I got him with rubber guard.
41:38
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I was like, oh my God, like shit.
41:40
SPEAKER_05: I can't believe I got him with rubber guard.
41:42
SPEAKER_05: He wasn't ready for it.
41:43
SPEAKER_05: But it wasn't.
41:43
SPEAKER_05: When I looked back at him, I'm like, oh my God, that wasn't even Rubberguard at all.
41:47
SPEAKER_05: It was this Jean-Jacques, straight up, overhook, sweep, he basses, trap that bass, throwing the triangle.
41:54
SPEAKER_05: It was all Jean-Jacques.
41:55
SPEAKER_03: And of course, by the way, not a fluke.
41:57
SPEAKER_03: Many years later, you had a rematch.
41:59
SPEAKER_03: The rules were different.
42:00
SPEAKER_03: It was just submission only.
42:02
SPEAKER_03: And there was no submission.
42:03
SPEAKER_03: But I'm sorry, man.
42:04
SPEAKER_03: Go watch the tape.
42:05
SPEAKER_03: He was under threat.
42:07
SPEAKER_03: He's like, if he wasn't so flexible, like you mean you would any other human would have died.
42:12
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, the rematch was 11 years later.
42:15
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
42:16
SPEAKER_05: And technically it was a draw, but I was really happy with the way the match came out.
42:23
SPEAKER_05: You know, so he had nothing on me.
42:25
SPEAKER_05: He never did anything to me.
42:26
SPEAKER_05: And I was just throwing attacks at him, and he was doing a great job of defending him.
42:31
SPEAKER_05: That's really pretty much the whole match was him defending my attacks, which I'm cool with.
42:40
SPEAKER_03: I'm happy with the draw.
42:41
SPEAKER_03: I think you did great.
42:42
SPEAKER_03: I remember Jean-Jacques catching some flack from some of the Gracie family for training you because they did not like seeing his.
42:49
SPEAKER_03: But I remember, maybe I'm wrong, the Machado brothers, like Hagan, he was like, You're our boy.
42:54
SPEAKER_03: Like they were very, very proud of you.
42:56
SPEAKER_05: And and your student that you brought up is always gonna mean more than the team you came from originally.
43:06
SPEAKER_05: These are also grown people that you bringing up, they're like your children.
43:10
SPEAKER_05: Like I was like John Jacques's son.
43:13
SPEAKER_05: He brought me up.
43:15
SPEAKER_05: And if it's between the person that he brought up to Black Belt, of course that that's gonna be mean more to you than the teammates that you came up with in your early years.
43:27
SPEAKER_03: Yes, but Heuler is also a cousin.
43:29
SPEAKER_03: There's blood there.
43:30
SPEAKER_03: So but I think it's a good analogy.
43:32
SPEAKER_03: Like Hoiler was a cousin, you were a son.
43:34
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
43:35
SPEAKER_03: And that's how you would make that choice.
43:36
SPEAKER_05: That's yeah.
43:37
SPEAKER_05: It's always gonna work out that way.
43:39
SPEAKER_05: If it doesn't work out that way, like if I had a student I brought up and he was gonna go against one of my old teammates.
43:49
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, me.
43:50
SPEAKER_05: Of course you'd want your guy.
43:51
SPEAKER_05: He's your guy.
43:53
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, this is my son.
43:54
SPEAKER_05: I love you, but like this is my like I'm with him every day.
43:58
SPEAKER_05: Of course.
43:58
SPEAKER_05: You know what I mean?
43:59
SPEAKER_05: He takes care of Of my children.
44:01
SPEAKER_05: He's a babysitter.
44:03
SPEAKER_03: I think it was great.
44:04
SPEAKER_03: Alright.
44:05
SPEAKER_03: So where did this?
44:06
SPEAKER_03: You were the most creative person I ever met.
44:08
SPEAKER_03: Which is why, by the way, in jujitsu, which is why I told John to come out from Australia and we took a private from you when we were black belts and you were brown belts.
44:16
SPEAKER_05: That was weird.
44:17
SPEAKER_05: Because before that, the weirdest thing was Higgin, legendary black belt, and I'm a purple belt, he invited me to come to HQ, which you know, which was Yeah, Redondo.
44:31
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, he goes, come down to Redondo.
44:33
SPEAKER_05: I needed to learn this crazy shit you're doing.
44:35
SPEAKER_05: Which was just the guillotine from wrestling.
44:37
SPEAKER_05: It's a wrestling move that they call the twister.
44:39
SPEAKER_05: It was always the guillotine.
44:40
SPEAKER_05: Right.
44:41
SPEAKER_05: But since the guillotine, the name was already used in grappling, they didn't call it the guillotine.
44:47
SPEAKER_05: But in wrestling, it was the guillotine.
44:49
SPEAKER_05: They called it the twister.
44:50
SPEAKER_05: Higgin and Jock renamed it the twister.
44:52
SPEAKER_05: I didn't.
44:53
SPEAKER_05: There's haters out there.
44:54
SPEAKER_05: They'll tell newbies in jujitsu who are don't know the timeline, don't really know the history, go, what is what is this 10th planet stuff?
45:04
SPEAKER_05: It's really easy for a hater to show a book, go, look, you wrestled in high school, right?
45:09
SPEAKER_05: And go, yeah, look, he's calling this the twisters, this is the guillotine.
45:12
SPEAKER_05: It's the guillotine from wrestling.
45:13
SPEAKER_05: Look what he's doing.
45:14
SPEAKER_05: And the you then like the newbie would be like, oh my God, I learned that in ninth grade wrestling.
45:19
SPEAKER_05: He's calling it the twister, go, yeah, he called it the twister.
45:21
SPEAKER_05: He's he's ripping off a move from wrestling.
45:24
SPEAKER_05: And then it's really easy to create haters.
45:26
SPEAKER_05: Like, fuck that dude.
45:27
SPEAKER_05: Like, fuck that piece of shit, right?
45:28
SPEAKER_05: But in reality, but of course, if it was true that I took a wrestling move, renamed it, and claimed that I invented it, I would have no students.
45:42
SPEAKER_05: That would have that would be like a big scandal that would just get crushed instantly.
45:47
SPEAKER_05: Nobody would be able to survive that.
45:49
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I would have zero students.
45:51
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
45:51
SPEAKER_05: So, but there's people out there that believe that.
45:54
SPEAKER_03: No, I remember that.
45:55
SPEAKER_03: That's not true.
45:55
SPEAKER_03: I remember I everything you said, I remember it as it was happening.
45:58
SPEAKER_03: You were calling it.
45:58
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, so Higgin, I'm a purple, but Higgin, black belt legend, has me out for a private.
46:05
SPEAKER_05: He didn't pay me or anything, but it was like the same thing as a private, just me and him, not during class, teaching him what I learned in high school.
46:15
SPEAKER_05: That was a trip.
46:16
SPEAKER_05: And then you were a black belt, but was it John Will or Richard Arden?
46:21
SPEAKER_05: John Will.
46:21
SPEAKER_05: John Will, he was a brown belt still.
46:23
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
46:23
SPEAKER_05: So he was a brown belt, you were a black belt, you were helping him.
46:26
SPEAKER_05: You guys.
46:27
SPEAKER_05: I think he might have been a black belt.
46:28
SPEAKER_05: You were a brown belt.
46:30
SPEAKER_03: I think that was the weird thing.
46:31
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
46:32
SPEAKER_03: I think I was still purple.
46:33
SPEAKER_03: No?
46:33
SPEAKER_03: Maybe whatever it was, we didn't care because I told him whatever you're doing is so unbelievable, we have to see it.
46:40
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that was crazy.
46:41
SPEAKER_05: To me, that was like, what the fuck?
46:42
SPEAKER_05: I'm not even a black belt, and I'm teaching black belts.
46:46
SPEAKER_05: That was a mind fuck.
46:47
SPEAKER_05: It really was.
46:48
SPEAKER_05: I couldn't.
46:48
SPEAKER_05: I was like, what?
46:49
SPEAKER_05: I didn't even get it.
46:50
SPEAKER_03: Over the doorway.
46:52
SPEAKER_03: You remember the sign they used to have leave your ego at the door, man?
46:55
SPEAKER_03: That's an example of that.
46:56
SPEAKER_03: Like, I didn't care what belt you were, what you were doing was good.
46:59
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, you you really didn't, man.
47:01
SPEAKER_05: You were always super supportive of not everybody was super supportive of my weird stuff.
47:06
SPEAKER_05: Because there was a time where someone high level came up to me and said, Listen, you gotta start learning regular jujitsu because you're doing like, okay, we get it.
47:16
SPEAKER_05: This weird stuff you're doing, we get it, you got it, but now you gotta eventually you gotta learn regular jujitsu, traditional jujitsu.
47:24
SPEAKER_05: And then Jean Jacques came in and said, Listen, let him do whatever the fuck he wants to do.
47:30
SPEAKER_05: All right, don't stop his creativity.
47:32
SPEAKER_05: So Jean-Jacques always pushed, he never tried to reel me in into traditional jujitsu ever.
47:40
SPEAKER_05: He loved it.
47:41
SPEAKER_05: He goes, look what this crazy dude's doing.
47:43
SPEAKER_05: He loved it.
47:44
SPEAKER_05: He has his fingerprints all over my style.
47:47
SPEAKER_05: It was always because I considered myself non-explosive, a non-athlete.
47:52
SPEAKER_05: I'm not gonna go jogging.
47:54
SPEAKER_05: I don't jog.
47:55
SPEAKER_05: I eat whatever the fuck I want to do.
47:57
SPEAKER_05: I never considered myself an athlete.
47:59
SPEAKER_05: I run really slow.
48:01
SPEAKER_05: Girls run faster than me.
48:03
SPEAKER_05: When I played tag in the fifth grade, I couldn't even catch the girls, man.
48:07
SPEAKER_05: I was slow, non-explosive.
48:09
SPEAKER_05: I never considered myself an athlete.
48:11
SPEAKER_05: So even in jujitsu, I tried to work around the non-athletic aspects of myself.
48:19
SPEAKER_05: So I try to like just trick people into weird shit.
48:22
SPEAKER_05: Jean-Jacques loved that.
48:24
SPEAKER_05: He was he was into it.
48:26
SPEAKER_05: And anytime I would do some weird shit, the whole class would get together with Jean-Jacques, like a group meeting, and they go, How do we stop this weird shit that he's doing?
48:37
SPEAKER_05: And then Jean-Jacques would tell him, and then they would all go, okay, cool.
48:40
SPEAKER_05: Then they would stop my shit.
48:41
SPEAKER_05: Then I would go by myself to Jean-Jacques and go, okay, now that you taught him how to stop this shit, what do I do?
48:47
SPEAKER_05: And he'd go, try this.
48:48
SPEAKER_05: And then I would try that.
48:50
SPEAKER_05: And then the whole group would go back to Jean-Jacques and go, he's doing some other shit now.
48:54
SPEAKER_05: How do we stop that?
48:55
SPEAKER_05: Then he would show them and it would just go back and forth and so on.
48:58
SPEAKER_05: So for me, it was like, as like, wow, these guys are spending all this time on just trying to stop one dude.
49:06
SPEAKER_05: No one else is gonna do this shit to them.
49:08
SPEAKER_05: It would be better for them.
49:09
SPEAKER_05: It would be a better use of their time if they learn how to do what I was doing and not learn how to stop it, because you learn how to stop it.
49:18
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, congratulations.
49:20
SPEAKER_05: It's gonna work on one dude.
49:21
SPEAKER_05: You spent all this time on me, but you're not gonna fight me in competition.
49:26
SPEAKER_05: So what are you doing?
49:27
SPEAKER_05: Why don't you learn what I'm doing?
49:29
SPEAKER_05: So that could possibly what you're learning, you could use it on a hundred people, yeah, instead of just like learning some shit out of stop me.
49:36
SPEAKER_05: You know what I mean?
49:37
SPEAKER_05: But everybody was just trying to stop me, man.
49:39
SPEAKER_05: There was only a couple guys that wanted to learn.
49:42
SPEAKER_05: Like remember Craig Beecham?
49:43
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
49:44
SPEAKER_05: He was like, show me what you're doing.
49:46
SPEAKER_05: So he was all in.
49:47
SPEAKER_05: Todd White, right?
49:47
SPEAKER_05: He started doing Todd White too.
49:49
SPEAKER_05: What I learned really quick in jujitsu is that they weren't jujitsu wasn't organized and wasn't being taught in the same way wrestling was like in high school.
49:59
SPEAKER_05: And I thought, like, damn, they're not even like getting medieval with these drills.
50:03
SPEAKER_05: It's so relaxed.
50:05
SPEAKER_05: They're not systemizing, like most of these moves don't even have names.
50:09
SPEAKER_05: There's no system.
50:10
SPEAKER_05: It's just that your instructor comes out, shows you a move, you practice it for five minutes, it shows you an option to the move, you practice that, and then one more option just in case they do this, you could do that, and then you roll.
50:23
SPEAKER_05: That was I go, man, if this was organized like wrestling, because when I wrestled in high school, even though I sucked, I was aware that this leads to this leads to this system is designed to produce the highest level athlete possible in this particular sport.
50:46
SPEAKER_05: Like the drills, it would there was no lollygag in wrestling.
50:49
SPEAKER_05: It was like a military experience.
50:52
SPEAKER_05: And it wasn't like that with jujitsu, it was the opposite.
50:54
SPEAKER_05: So for me, I'm like, man, if they actually like actually put some serious emphasis on drilling and reps and numbers and a system, and let's name everything and let's fucking write.
51:07
SPEAKER_05: If you can't write down the system, you don't have a system.
51:10
SPEAKER_05: But you have a system, but it's not written down, doesn't have no system.
51:13
SPEAKER_05: You're just going off the top of your fucking head.
51:15
SPEAKER_05: What do you got?
51:16
SPEAKER_05: Like a photographic memory or some shit?
51:18
SPEAKER_05: Like those waitresses.
51:19
SPEAKER_05: You there's like 10 people ordering, and she's like, mm-hmm, okay.
51:22
SPEAKER_05: No onions, okay.
51:23
SPEAKER_05: My bitch, you better write that shit down.
51:25
SPEAKER_05: You know what I mean?
51:27
SPEAKER_05: So me and Todd White, we decided, like, you know what?
51:31
SPEAKER_05: On the side, let's put together a system.
51:33
SPEAKER_05: We'll put together flows and boom, and we'll practice.
51:36
SPEAKER_05: One hour a week, Thursday afternoon, he was a cartoonist and Nickelodeon, and I would show up to the Nickelodeon headquarters right there in Burbank on lunch break when the whole building would leave for lunch for an hour.
51:51
SPEAKER_05: He would stay at the gym because I had a gym, and I would bring the mats and we would do drills for 45 minutes and once a week.
52:00
SPEAKER_05: And we would just we would structure these drills, and real quick, we realized like shit, within a couple weeks, two, three, four weeks, these drills that we were practicing show up in the sparring.
52:11
SPEAKER_05: And we're like, oh shit.
52:13
SPEAKER_05: And we would tell each other, is it showing up, dude?
52:15
SPEAKER_05: I did it three times.
52:16
SPEAKER_05: Did I do it twice?
52:17
SPEAKER_05: Boom, it worked on him, and it worked on him.
52:19
SPEAKER_05: And then I'm like, okay, so then we do more drills, and we were keeping track of the drills we were doing and how quickly they infected our sparring.
52:29
SPEAKER_05: And it was really quick, so we were just obsessed with that once a week, and it made a big difference.
52:32
SPEAKER_05: And me and Todd White, as far as Jean-Jacques students, like their purple belts and blue belts, we were the ones that were traveling to Santa Cruz to compete.
52:41
SPEAKER_05: We were the ones going to grappler's quest in Vegas.
52:44
SPEAKER_05: That's really where the style came from was the lack of drilling in traditional BJJ compared to wrestling.
52:54
SPEAKER_05: Where like once you learn the power of reps, they're like, oh shit, I could learn anything, I could do anything.
53:00
SPEAKER_05: So you learn like even beyond jujitsu, like, damn, it's everything's about just reps.
53:04
SPEAKER_05: I could be a dancer, I could be a fucking real estate agent.
53:08
SPEAKER_05: You just got to put in the reps with the real estate.
53:10
SPEAKER_05: I could be a fucking doctor.
53:11
SPEAKER_05: It's just reps and studying.
53:13
SPEAKER_05: So that's what you really learn from jujitsu.
53:15
SPEAKER_05: That's why in jiu-jitsu, man, it's very common for your the buddies that you grew up with in jujitsu that stick with it and that are into drills and practicing and adding weapons, they usually become successful in something in their career.
53:30
SPEAKER_05: Right.
53:31
SPEAKER_05: You know, I mean, Todd White became like this super huge artist.
53:34
SPEAKER_05: He was a bottom-of-the-barrel cartoon designer for Nickelodeon.
53:38
SPEAKER_05: And then he became like one of the most popular artists in the world.
53:42
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no, that is 100% true.
53:44
SPEAKER_03: That's kind of the theme of this podcast is lessons for martial arts in life.
53:48
SPEAKER_03: For me, it's what superpowered my animal nonprofit, which sold for tens of millions of dollars.
53:53
SPEAKER_05: Tell me about your animal nonprofit because I'm getting in into that.
53:56
SPEAKER_03: Okay, we'll go there in a second.
53:57
SPEAKER_03: We'll go there in a second.
53:57
SPEAKER_03: I promise we'll get back to it.
53:58
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
53:59
SPEAKER_03: But I just want to say when I had John come out and we took a lesson from you, what was interesting to me, the reason I was saying we need to learn from you was not just that you could beat me.
54:06
SPEAKER_03: I mean, sure, but it was specifically that you were creating new things, that you were naming them in interesting ways, and that you were tying them together.
54:14
SPEAKER_03: It's exactly the systematized stuff.
54:16
SPEAKER_03: And I don't think that's just a problem with BJJ.
54:18
SPEAKER_03: That was a problem with my jujitsu too.
54:20
SPEAKER_03: We're like, here's an escape from this, here's an escape from that, here's a finish, right?
54:25
SPEAKER_03: Same thing with catch wrestling.
54:26
SPEAKER_03: You know, when I talked to like Eric Paulson, friends with Eric, and he was doing kind of catch wrestling stuff, but even then, these were just like attack, attack, and they would do some flows.
54:37
SPEAKER_03: They would do some lock flows, but then the Japanese guys would do lock flows, but without not against like resistance.
54:44
SPEAKER_03: So they would try one of those lock flows on me and they wouldn't get past the first lock because I'd just smash the shit out of them and tap them out or whatever.
54:51
SPEAKER_03: But what you were doing is you were doing live resistance stuff, but you were connecting it in this, like you say, systematized way.
54:57
SPEAKER_03: And it's funny because people maybe have heard of the rubber guard, which takes some flexibility and shit like that, and they'll say, like, that's a young man's game.
55:03
SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, dude, twister, electric chair, like these that's an old man's game.
55:08
SPEAKER_03: Like, you need no flexibility to do most of the stuff you do.
55:11
SPEAKER_03: It's like the perfect old man's game.
55:13
SPEAKER_03: Anyway, I was just super impressed.
55:15
SPEAKER_03: And now, but I'm like, when did you start being creative?
55:17
SPEAKER_03: Like, we is this from like your music?
55:19
SPEAKER_03: Are you always creative like that?
55:21
SPEAKER_03: It's like you push against authority, and it's not even necessarily authority.
55:25
SPEAKER_03: The way I see you, if I had to just like sum you, no one can sum anybody up, but you do not accept the standard norm just because it's told to you.
55:37
SPEAKER_03: I don't care if that's conspiracies, I don't care if it's jujitsu, I don't care whatever it is.
55:41
SPEAKER_03: You look at something your own way, you come to your own conclusion, you analyze it, it's just super interesting to me.
55:50
SPEAKER_03: It's just super interesting.
55:51
SPEAKER_03: And then look what it created, like this world.
55:53
SPEAKER_05: I can pinpoint it to two events in my life.
55:56
SPEAKER_05: The first one is when I was 11, when I found out everybody wasn't Catholic, because I grew up in a Mexican neighborhood in Santa Ana, California.
56:06
SPEAKER_05: They put all the, when all the white people left LA and went to Orange County to escape all the Mexicans, they realized like, damn, we gotta bring some Mexicans to clean our yards up.
56:16
SPEAKER_05: You know what I mean?
56:17
SPEAKER_05: So they go, okay, cool.
56:18
SPEAKER_05: They thought they could escape to El Toro and Mission Viejo, but they had a designated city for the Mexicans.
56:24
SPEAKER_05: That was Santa Ana.
56:25
SPEAKER_05: So they put all the labor, the clean, everybody, it was like the Home Depot of Orange County, Santa Ana.
56:30
SPEAKER_05: That's where I grew up.
56:31
SPEAKER_05: Everybody's Catholic.
56:33
SPEAKER_05: Everybody, we had a neighborhood church.
56:35
SPEAKER_05: Our Lady of Pilar, we had a neighborhood church.
56:37
SPEAKER_05: We played all our football games in the parking lot.
56:40
SPEAKER_05: I was an altar boy, all that shit.
56:43
SPEAKER_05: I thought everybody was Catholic because when you look at TV and all the sitcoms, different strokes, all that shit.
56:48
SPEAKER_05: They had Christmas shows, Halloween, Easter.
56:53
SPEAKER_05: So, like, okay, everyone's Catholic.
56:54
SPEAKER_05: And then I'm 11, and I find out there's Jews, and then there's Muslims, and there's all these other religions.
57:01
SPEAKER_05: I'm like, wait a minute, there's other religions?
57:03
SPEAKER_05: What are what are all these other religions?
57:04
SPEAKER_05: Like, how do we know we're right?
57:06
SPEAKER_05: And I'm like, wait a minute, the Jews think they're right, Muslims think they're right.
57:10
SPEAKER_05: What the fuck, Hindu?
57:12
SPEAKER_05: What?
57:13
SPEAKER_05: What are we doing over here?
57:14
SPEAKER_05: So right away I go, oh, okay, I can't believe any of this shit.
57:17
SPEAKER_05: So I became atheist at a young age.
57:20
SPEAKER_05: So I thought, okay, this is massive fucking worldwide brainwash.
57:25
SPEAKER_05: So at that point, I started going, you can't trust shit.
57:29
SPEAKER_05: And then the next one was I was really into pro wrestling, and my uncle would always tell me, I'm like 12, 13.
57:35
SPEAKER_05: He goes, That shit's fake.
57:37
SPEAKER_05: I go, how do you fake blood?
57:38
SPEAKER_05: How do you fake the blood?
57:40
SPEAKER_05: Look, they're picking them up and they're slamming them.
57:41
SPEAKER_05: And my uncle would go, oh my god, you're a target.
57:43
SPEAKER_05: I'm trying to help you.
57:45
SPEAKER_05: And so I believe pro wrestling was real.
57:47
SPEAKER_05: I was watching like Hulk Hogan and Iron Chic and all that shit.
57:51
SPEAKER_05: B Brian Blair, a Paul Horndorf, all that shit.
57:55
SPEAKER_05: I was into it.
57:56
SPEAKER_05: And then in 85, a fucking, they 2020 did an expose on pro wrestling.
58:06
SPEAKER_05: They got a whistleblower, a wrestler, an actual real wrestler who's fucking turning on the industry.
58:13
SPEAKER_05: And he got they got him on camera saying it is fake and all this shit.
58:15
SPEAKER_05: He goes, you know how the blood is.
58:16
SPEAKER_05: I go, what about the blood?
58:17
SPEAKER_05: He goes, look, he took a little Xacto knife, wrapped it around, like put a little uh, like you know that ace bandage type shit around a little Xacto knife, and then he hit it in his, he goes, We put it right here, boom, and then we have a distraction.
58:30
SPEAKER_05: Like, I'll beat someone down, and they'll be like on in the corner riling up the crowd while I get the fucking, or maybe I get beat down, and I'm on the floor, and I take the little blade out and like fucking cut my forehead.
58:43
SPEAKER_05: I slice it, and then I come up and I'm bleeding.
58:46
SPEAKER_05: He said, red turns the green in the pro wrestling world.
58:49
SPEAKER_05: So you want to get green?
58:51
SPEAKER_05: We need to see red.
58:53
SPEAKER_05: So he said they cut themselves and he didn't write their own camera and goes, look, we don't even feel it no more.
58:57
SPEAKER_05: He goes, like that, and blood starts coming down.
58:59
SPEAKER_05: He goes, You don't even feel it.
59:00
SPEAKER_05: I'm surprised they even really did that.
59:02
SPEAKER_05: And they did that on 2020, and then they the the reporter, he's like a little dude, he's a little dude, five, three.
59:08
SPEAKER_05: And the the whistleblower, pro wrestler guy, is showing them how you could pick me up and they're like in a ring.
59:15
SPEAKER_05: And he goes, Look, I'm gonna jump up and make it easy for you, and you just use the momentum and you could slam.
59:20
SPEAKER_05: So they were doing it.
59:20
SPEAKER_05: So they did this whole 20 minutes your bubble.
59:23
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, and I'm like, the best part of that segment was the reporter, the little short guy, he's backstage at a WWE show, maybe Madison Square Garden or whatever.
59:34
SPEAKER_05: And there was a wrestler super popular at the time, Dr.
59:38
SPEAKER_05: D.
59:38
SPEAKER_05: David Schultz.
59:39
SPEAKER_05: You could watch this on YouTube, it's still on YouTube.
59:42
SPEAKER_05: Dr.
59:42
SPEAKER_05: D.
59:43
SPEAKER_05: David Schultz, he's about to walk out and do a wrestling match, and the little reporter goes, Hey, what do you think about so-and-so saying it's fake?
59:51
SPEAKER_05: It's all the pro wrestling's fake, goes, fake, and he goes, boom, he slaps him right in the ear, knocks the guy down, the reporter, and the guy gets up again.
1:00:01
SPEAKER_05: He goes, Is this fake?
1:00:02
SPEAKER_05: Boom! Is that fake?
1:00:03
SPEAKER_05: He fucked the guy up twice in the ear.
1:00:05
SPEAKER_05: The guy ended up suing WWE.
1:00:08
SPEAKER_05: He's like, fuck, his ears are fucked up.
1:00:10
SPEAKER_05: He's still like deaf in one ear.
1:00:12
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, and then you never saw Dr.
1:00:13
SPEAKER_05: D, David Schultz again.
1:00:15
SPEAKER_05: They pulled him and he just disappeared from wrestling.
1:00:17
SPEAKER_05: He was a huge wrestler.
1:00:18
SPEAKER_05: He disappeared, it was a huge scandal.
1:00:21
SPEAKER_05: And right there, I was like, oh my god, pro wrestling's fake.
1:00:25
SPEAKER_05: And then the last one that made me like not like you're talking about me not trusting shit.
1:00:30
SPEAKER_05: The last one was I was super into metal, Slayer, Metallica, all like metal that talked about Satan all the time, but I no one ever thought these metal dudes were actually Satanists.
1:00:41
SPEAKER_05: We understood that's as 15-year-old kids.
1:00:44
SPEAKER_05: We're like, oh, they're just like it's like a dude who wrote the script or the screenplay for the Exorcist.
1:00:49
SPEAKER_05: No one thinks he's satanic.
1:00:51
SPEAKER_05: He wrote a satanic movie, Exorcist is satanic, but no one's thinking the writer's satanic.
1:00:55
SPEAKER_05: So that's how kids even looked at Slayer and all these bands that were like creator and destruction, they were writing songs about Satan and hell and total fucking destruction and death and evil and bloodletting and all that shit.
1:01:09
SPEAKER_05: But we're like, oh, that's a cool story.
1:01:11
SPEAKER_05: It's like the Exorcist.
1:01:12
SPEAKER_05: But we never thought the bands were Satanists, and they weren't.
1:01:16
SPEAKER_05: There was a couple, maybe King Diamond, a couple, but most of them, they were just, I was writing satanic lyrics.
1:01:21
SPEAKER_05: I was in speed metal bands.
1:01:22
SPEAKER_05: I got the satanic Bible to write satanic lyrics.
1:01:25
SPEAKER_05: I was atheist.
1:01:26
SPEAKER_05: I was like, this is just like uh a facade, and this is like a genre we write about Satan, but no one actually believed in Satan.
1:01:33
SPEAKER_05: And then 2020, same ABC show.
1:01:36
SPEAKER_05: They did a show on how satanic heavy metal music is.
1:01:40
SPEAKER_05: And if your kids are listening to Twisted Sister, Motby Crew, and Judas Priest, and like, dude, you guys are on the wrong bands.
1:01:47
SPEAKER_05: They're going after Motley Crew.
1:01:49
SPEAKER_05: They could they never mention Slayer, they never mentioned like Creator or like the real ones are real talking about Satan.
1:01:56
SPEAKER_05: But they weren't even satanic, but they were straight up talking about like Slayer has a song called Necrophiliac, and that song is about going to a mortuary, pulling out a dead corpse, fucking it, and then and then sending that corpse a soul to hell or necrophiliac.
1:02:13
SPEAKER_05: And like, but we never thought as kids that they were satanic.
1:02:16
SPEAKER_05: Like, oh, they're writing gross songs.
1:02:17
SPEAKER_05: I want to write a gross satanic song.
1:02:19
SPEAKER_05: But now, 2020 is not even going after Slayer.
1:02:23
SPEAKER_05: They're not even going, they're going after Twisted Sister.
1:02:26
SPEAKER_05: So I thought, okay, you can't ever trust the news.
1:02:29
SPEAKER_05: They don't know what the fuck is going on.
1:02:31
SPEAKER_05: You're going after Twisted Sister?
1:02:33
SPEAKER_05: And you're going after like Iron Maiden?
1:02:35
SPEAKER_05: You guys should be going after Slayer or King Diamond at least.
1:02:38
SPEAKER_05: And they didn't.
1:02:39
SPEAKER_05: So those are the three incidences that like I was like, I see.
1:02:42
SPEAKER_05: Like, okay, I can't trust the world.
1:02:46
SPEAKER_03: I think like with the news, you trust but verify, maybe.
1:02:50
SPEAKER_03: That's what Reagan used to say about the Russians or whatever.
1:02:53
SPEAKER_03: Like, but I have had experiences because I've done stuff in my animal work where that was covered on the news.
1:02:57
SPEAKER_03: And then I look at the article or whatever, and it's like they did not get it right.
1:03:01
SPEAKER_03: So I've had that experience because they're reporters, they're lazy, or they just, you know, people are people, right?
1:03:06
SPEAKER_03: So I don't throw out the whole baby with the bathwater, but I'm right with you that you've got to kind of think for yourself.
1:03:11
unknown: Yeah.
1:03:11
SPEAKER_03: All right, so 10th planet.
1:03:14
SPEAKER_03: So you win with Hoiler, you start teaching, right?
1:03:17
SPEAKER_03: Because now you're the hottest thing in the world, I think.
1:03:20
SPEAKER_03: And you create this thing called 10th planet that's I assume built on the stuff that you were writing out with Todd.
1:03:25
SPEAKER_03: Like it's the systemized stuff.
1:03:26
SPEAKER_04: Yep.
1:03:27
SPEAKER_03: Okay, it's all no gi, which is great.
1:03:30
SPEAKER_03: Were you planning on creating this kind of empire that you've created now?
1:03:35
SPEAKER_04: No.
1:03:36
SPEAKER_05: The only reason I started 10th Planet was because before that I was writing comedy for the man's show for like six months.
1:03:45
SPEAKER_05: But before that, I was a strip club DJ for 10 years.
1:03:48
SPEAKER_05: So for 10 years I was strip club DJ.
1:03:51
SPEAKER_05: Then I got a writing job when Joe took over as the host for the man's show.
1:03:56
SPEAKER_05: Because originally the man's show was Adam Carolla and Jimmy Kimmel.
1:04:00
SPEAKER_05: After five years, they took off, but Comedy Central wanted to keep it going with new hosts.
1:04:04
SPEAKER_05: So they got Joe Rogan, and Joe Rogan got Doug Stanhope.
1:04:07
SPEAKER_05: And then Joe Rogan brought me in as a writer.
1:04:09
SPEAKER_05: But that was a big fiasco because Man Show didn't want to hire me, Comedy Center didn't want to hire me because I had no experience.
1:04:16
SPEAKER_05: Joe made them hire me because me and Joe, I met him at Jean Jacques through Jiu Jitsu.
1:04:21
SPEAKER_05: He was a student at John Jacques, that's how we met, and we started writing comedy together.
1:04:24
SPEAKER_05: And I dabbled in stand-up comedy back then too.
1:04:27
SPEAKER_05: So Joe made them hire me, and they they buckled, but they hated me and treated me accordingly.
1:04:33
SPEAKER_05: It was horrible.
1:04:34
SPEAKER_05: So as I'm training for 2003 ADCC, the World Championships, I'm actually working depressed as a writer for the man show because I was like, fuck, I shouldn't have quit my strip club DJ job.
1:04:48
SPEAKER_05: What did I do?
1:04:49
SPEAKER_05: Fuck.
1:04:50
SPEAKER_05: Because this show gonna get canceled.
1:04:52
SPEAKER_05: And then what am I gonna do?
1:04:54
SPEAKER_05: Then what am I gonna do?
1:04:56
SPEAKER_05: Fuck, why did I quit the strip club?
1:04:59
SPEAKER_05: Shit.
1:05:00
SPEAKER_05: And they treated me like shit.
1:05:02
SPEAKER_05: I was like, man, my life, I'm like 32, 33, and my life is like, I'm a grown-ass man.
1:05:08
SPEAKER_05: I'm trying to get a record deal.
1:05:10
SPEAKER_05: So I thought by working the man's show, me and Joe would parlay that into like a movie career, make movies, you know, successful sketches on the man show, then we make movies, and then I get my music in that way.
1:05:23
SPEAKER_05: Because it was always about the music.
1:05:25
SPEAKER_05: I was a strip club DJ until I got a record deal.
1:05:28
SPEAKER_05: That's all it was.
1:05:28
SPEAKER_05: But then I'm like, damn, I get a chance to write for the man's show.
1:05:32
SPEAKER_05: This is my record deal.
1:05:33
SPEAKER_05: We're gonna make movies, and then I'll fucking sneak my music in through the back.
1:05:38
SPEAKER_05: No, that's what I thought.
1:05:39
SPEAKER_05: That was the plan.
1:05:40
SPEAKER_05: Well, it didn't go as planned, and they hated me, and there was not gonna be any fucking movies.
1:05:45
SPEAKER_05: That show is gonna get canceled, total disaster.
1:05:47
SPEAKER_05: Meanwhile, I'm training for Abu Dhabi 2003.
1:05:51
SPEAKER_05: So I thought, okay, I'm gonna be unemployed pretty soon, but at least I got a free trip to Sao Paulo and I get to do the world championships.
1:05:58
SPEAKER_05: I'm gonna give fuck.
1:06:00
SPEAKER_05: Up in the first round, you know, I'm a brown belt and I won the trials, and I'm like, okay, I'm gonna go get fucked up, but at least I get a vacation.
1:06:08
SPEAKER_03: People don't remember when you beat Hoyler, the best black belt in the world, you were a brown belt.
1:06:12
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:06:12
SPEAKER_03: Under San Jacques.
1:06:13
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:06:13
SPEAKER_05: So when I went, I had zero expectations.
1:06:18
SPEAKER_05: I go to me, it was just a free vacation in Brazil.
1:06:21
SPEAKER_05: I'll get my ass kicked and we'll party.
1:06:23
SPEAKER_05: You know what I mean?
1:06:23
SPEAKER_05: Whatever.
1:06:23
SPEAKER_05: I'm gonna go, I'm going against Leo Viera and fucking who ended up crushing me after I tapped Hoyer.
1:06:29
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, but I think you were tweaked after the Hoyler match.
1:06:31
SPEAKER_05: I asked talked to you.
1:06:32
SPEAKER_05: He would have still fucked me up.
1:06:33
SPEAKER_05: He would have still fucked me up.
1:06:33
SPEAKER_05: Like Leo Vieira had my.
1:06:34
SPEAKER_05: I didn't expect to win anything.
1:06:36
SPEAKER_05: I was like, free trip.
1:06:38
SPEAKER_05: I'm gonna be unemployed, but at least I got a free trip.
1:06:40
SPEAKER_05: What's my life?
1:06:41
SPEAKER_05: I mean, how am I gonna get this record deal now?
1:06:43
SPEAKER_05: What kind of job am I gonna take?
1:06:45
SPEAKER_05: And then I tapped out Hoyler, got my ass kicked by Leo, but it didn't matter because I still tapped out Hoiler.
1:06:50
SPEAKER_05: Came back, quit the man's show, started teaching at the Bomb Squad, this boxing gym in West Hollywood.
1:06:56
SPEAKER_05: And I started teaching there.
1:06:58
SPEAKER_05: And I had like 18 students my first night and just struggled.
1:07:03
SPEAKER_05: Joe Rogan helped me, man.
1:07:04
SPEAKER_05: He understood.
1:07:05
SPEAKER_05: I had to tell him, I go, when I told him I'm quitting the man's show, he understood because he knew how horrible it was.
1:07:10
SPEAKER_05: And even though he went to fucking war for me to get that job, now I'm telling him I'm quitting after he went to war for me.
1:07:17
SPEAKER_05: He goes, I get it.
1:07:18
SPEAKER_05: He understood.
1:07:18
SPEAKER_05: And he helped me in my those the first year was I was struggling.
1:07:22
SPEAKER_05: But it was only to get back to your point, did I envision having reschools?
1:07:29
SPEAKER_05: No, I had no idea.
1:07:31
SPEAKER_05: My thing was like, oh shit, I could teach this is a cool job until I get that record deal.
1:07:38
SPEAKER_05: So I'll teach jujitsu.
1:07:40
SPEAKER_05: Cool.
1:07:40
SPEAKER_05: I'll just teach people how to kill each other and put each other to sleep until I get the record deal, then I go on the road, and then I'll do jujitsu with my roadies, I'll hire roadies to do jujitsu, and then I'll be touring stadiums and doing jujitsu after soundcheck.
1:07:56
SPEAKER_05: That was the plan.
1:07:57
SPEAKER_05: So when I started teaching jujitsu, it was like, this is just temporary.
1:08:00
SPEAKER_05: I hear you.
1:08:01
SPEAKER_05: I'm gonna get a record deal.
1:08:02
SPEAKER_05: I was like super deep into music.
1:08:05
SPEAKER_05: It's happening.
1:08:06
SPEAKER_05: But the music never blew up, never got a record deal, all while the jiu-jitsu was slowly growing and growing and growing.
1:08:14
SPEAKER_05: And now that it's all said and done, I'm so appreciative that nobody likes my music.
1:08:20
SPEAKER_05: Oh my god, if I actually wrote good music and got a record deal, who knows where my life would be.
1:08:27
SPEAKER_05: I might have, dude, if I got a record deal in the 90s when I was like at my at my peak at trying to get a record deal in the 90s and the early 2000s.
1:08:36
SPEAKER_05: If I would have got a record deal and someone would have invited me to P.
1:08:39
SPEAKER_05: Diddy's parties, I would have gone.
1:08:41
SPEAKER_05: They go, you want to go to a fucking mansion party, the P.
1:08:44
SPEAKER_05: Diddy's throne?
1:08:45
SPEAKER_05: Like, who wouldn't want to go to that?
1:08:46
SPEAKER_05: You're in the record business?
1:08:48
SPEAKER_05: Everybody went.
1:08:49
SPEAKER_05: Thank God I didn't get signed.
1:08:51
SPEAKER_05: I would have gone and who knows, I would have fucking misplaced my baby oil, and then damn, who knows what would have happened.
1:08:59
SPEAKER_05: You know what I mean?
1:09:00
SPEAKER_03: No, I understand.
1:09:01
SPEAKER_03: Life has a funny way of working out.
1:09:03
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, it's really funny.
1:09:04
SPEAKER_05: So happy no one likes my music.
1:09:05
SPEAKER_05: Oh my god.
1:09:06
SPEAKER_05: Well, actually, like 17 people worldwide.
1:09:09
SPEAKER_05: I counted the fans.
1:09:10
SPEAKER_05: I got 17 people worldwide that like my music.
1:09:13
SPEAKER_03: So when I do my music, it's for those 17 people.
1:09:16
SPEAKER_03: We're gonna talk about music in a second, which leads into my animal stuff, so we'll get there.
1:09:19
SPEAKER_03: But so just on the 10th planet, I'm just curious, because it was always a thing with the Machados.
1:09:25
SPEAKER_03: Like, when someone got a black belt, like Bob Bass wanted to open up a school.
1:09:28
SPEAKER_03: Bob Bass lived in Redondo Beach.
1:09:30
SPEAKER_03: That's why he so he wanted to open up a school in Hermosa Beach.
1:09:33
SPEAKER_03: That's like where he was from.
1:09:34
SPEAKER_03: It was really close to Higgins' place.
1:09:35
SPEAKER_03: It became some friction.
1:09:36
SPEAKER_03: Like, dude, that's too close.
1:09:38
SPEAKER_03: And Bob was like, This is my home, man.
1:09:40
SPEAKER_03: I'm born here.
1:09:40
SPEAKER_03: You're the guys who came over from Brazil.
1:09:42
SPEAKER_03: And I got involved with the Machados and I like brokered this whole deal for all the black belt guys.
1:09:47
SPEAKER_03: Like, look, everyone, here's gonna be the rules.
1:09:48
SPEAKER_03: If you teach a private on Higgins Matt or Jean-Jacques Matt, you gotta give him a percentage of that private if you're using their school for that.
1:09:55
SPEAKER_03: And if you want to open up a new school, you can open up a new school, but it's got to be like this distance away.
1:09:59
SPEAKER_03: And and I tried to make it so that it would work for everybody, and we did it.
1:10:03
SPEAKER_03: And then it like very quickly fell apart because everyone trusted me.
1:10:06
SPEAKER_03: Like I was friends with everybody.
1:10:07
SPEAKER_03: But so I'm wondering with you and like your licensing and stuff, is that an issue where like you don't want two tenth planets to be too close to each other because then they're gonna get pissed at each other or something like that?
1:10:18
SPEAKER_05: Well, the rule is you have to be at least 10 miles away from the city.
1:10:22
SPEAKER_04: Okay, so there's some sort of yeah, yeah.
1:10:25
SPEAKER_05: Like all of LA, Orange County, and San Diego, that's all taken.
1:10:28
SPEAKER_05: Like, and then people want to open up a school and they're trying to find spots with maps.
1:10:32
SPEAKER_05: Look, that's 10.1, and I'm in the fucking corner.
1:10:36
SPEAKER_05: It's it's it's a constant issue nowadays.
1:10:40
SPEAKER_05: It is because the territory in Southern California is basically gone.
1:10:44
SPEAKER_05: So if you want to open up a school, you have a choice.
1:10:46
SPEAKER_05: I have a couple, one of my black belts here, he didn't want to move.
1:10:50
SPEAKER_05: And he opened up a school in San Pedro where his he's from, and that's in the territory of two of my other schools.
1:10:57
SPEAKER_05: So he just opened up a school under his name.
1:10:59
SPEAKER_05: Doesn't call it.
1:11:00
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah.
1:11:00
SPEAKER_05: So that's fine too.
1:11:01
SPEAKER_05: He still trains here, I still love him to death.
1:11:02
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, he still trains here.
1:11:04
SPEAKER_05: Gio Vuk, he's my homie, and he has a school, and he just decided not to not to carry the brand.
1:11:10
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, and that's fine too.
1:11:11
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
1:11:12
SPEAKER_05: There's gonna be a lot of that.
1:11:13
SPEAKER_03: When people do carry the brand, can they innovate themselves?
1:11:17
SPEAKER_03: Like what's their responsibility?
1:11:18
SPEAKER_03: What do they have to stick to to be part of the brand?
1:11:20
SPEAKER_03: They can do anything they want.
1:11:21
SPEAKER_05: The requirement for opening a 10th planet school is you have to be a 10th planet black belt, not just a BJJ black belt, you have to be a 10th planet black belt.
1:11:30
SPEAKER_05: So if you achieve your 10th planet black belt, then I trust you.
1:11:34
SPEAKER_05: Okay.
1:11:35
SPEAKER_03: And that's been that's done with you.
1:11:37
SPEAKER_03: Or with other black belts.
1:11:38
SPEAKER_03: Oh, okay.
1:11:39
SPEAKER_05: Do I have black 10th planet black belts that I don't even I've never even met and I don't know their names.
1:11:42
SPEAKER_03: Because they're like grandson, yeah, exactly.
1:11:45
SPEAKER_05: Dude, like I understand.
1:11:46
SPEAKER_05: There's so many I don't even know.
1:11:48
SPEAKER_03: Do you ever teach privates these days?
1:11:50
SPEAKER_03: No.
1:11:51
SPEAKER_03: So this is.
1:11:52
SPEAKER_03: I price myself out of privates.
1:11:54
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
1:11:54
SPEAKER_03: John Will used to call this the fuck you price.
1:11:57
SPEAKER_03: And he, because what happened with me is I was teaching jujitsu while I was building my animal nonprofit.
1:12:03
SPEAKER_03: So I was taking money for jujitsu, but I was only doing it so I could build my animal nonprofit because that's what I wanted to do for a living once I left music, which we're gonna talk about in one second.
1:12:11
SPEAKER_03: Originally I was gonna change the world through music.
1:12:13
SPEAKER_03: I always knew I was gonna be a rock music.
1:12:15
SPEAKER_03: Same like you, I was gonna have a record deal, and we'll talk about what happened there.
1:12:18
SPEAKER_03: But real quick on the fuck you price, I said, I can't teach privates anymore.
1:12:22
SPEAKER_03: And John's like, that's crazy.
1:12:23
SPEAKER_03: And like I don't have the time, like I don't care.
1:12:24
SPEAKER_03: And he's like, Well, if someone gave you a million dollars, would you teach them a private in an hour for an hour?
1:12:28
SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, yeah.
1:12:29
SPEAKER_03: And he goes, All right, what about half a million?
1:12:31
SPEAKER_03: Like, that's your fuck you price.
1:12:33
SPEAKER_03: So if someone says, Do you teach?
1:12:34
SPEAKER_03: You're saying he said, You're saying to them fuck you, because I'm saying, uh, yeah, here's my price,$5,000.
1:12:41
SPEAKER_03: But if you'll pay$5,000, I'll happily show up.
1:12:44
SPEAKER_03: Cash, so I started doing that.
1:12:46
SPEAKER_03: I mean, it never got up to$5,000, but I made my fuck you price$500.
1:12:50
SPEAKER_03: And then people would pay it because I'm Dave Meyer and stuff.
1:12:53
SPEAKER_03: So then I had to raise it because I didn't want to change it.
1:12:56
SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
1:12:56
SPEAKER_03: That's it.
1:12:56
SPEAKER_03: But his point, but his point was, but there's some you at some price, it's worth it, right?
1:13:01
SPEAKER_05: I used to do$500 to so I wouldn't do it.
1:13:04
SPEAKER_05: And then a couple people want paid$500 and go, okay, I gotta get around the thousand.
1:13:08
SPEAKER_05: So I stayed at a thousand file, and then like some billionaire from Saudi Arabia wanted to do it the thousand.
1:13:14
SPEAKER_05: I'm like, damn, I gotta go five thousand now.
1:13:16
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:13:17
SPEAKER_05: Because I don't I just don't want to do them.
1:13:18
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:13:19
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's so funny.
1:13:20
SPEAKER_03: I don't want to, I don't have the time.
1:13:21
SPEAKER_05: But if you're gonna, you know, honestly, if someone if someone's gonna give me cash, 2K, I'll do that.
1:13:28
SPEAKER_05: You know what I mean?
1:13:29
SPEAKER_05: But I just don't have the time and the energy.
1:13:32
SPEAKER_05: I put all my energy into my classes.
1:13:34
SPEAKER_05: I have the same class schedule that I've had since day one for the last 23 years.
1:13:41
SPEAKER_05: I do the same Monday through Thursday.
1:13:43
SPEAKER_05: Boom, it's the same one.
1:13:44
SPEAKER_05: Friday through Sunday, I'm off.
1:13:46
SPEAKER_05: I might be teaching a seminar somewhere on this plane on Saturday, but as far as my class here, Monday through Thursday, we work.
1:13:54
SPEAKER_05: The training camp Monday through Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, I'm off.
1:13:58
SPEAKER_03: If you're not teaching privates, you're still teaching your school, people can come.
1:14:01
SPEAKER_03: We're sitting here at your headquarters in downtown LA.
1:14:04
SPEAKER_05: I just taught a class.
1:14:04
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I love that it's by the way, the headquarters.
1:14:07
SPEAKER_03: I have this, it feels like people should be sitting around with like headsets on and clicking things, saying rubber guard, you know, whatever.
1:14:13
SPEAKER_03: Twister.
1:14:13
SPEAKER_03: But no, it's awesome.
1:14:14
SPEAKER_03: It's an awesome school here, and you've been so nice you let me in when I pass through town.
1:14:17
SPEAKER_03: I so appreciate it.
1:14:18
SPEAKER_03: And I love your boys, they're all great.
1:14:19
SPEAKER_03: Hell yeah.
1:14:20
SPEAKER_03: Tough dudes, man.
1:14:21
SPEAKER_03: I'm still I'm 63, but I'm still also.
1:14:24
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, you still dude, you still get in there and fucking roll with the dog.
1:14:27
SPEAKER_05: Like, dude, you're you're a bad motherfucker.
1:14:30
SPEAKER_05: Because I like right now, I'm slow, I've had shoulder problems.
1:14:34
SPEAKER_05: I was gonna ask.
1:14:35
SPEAKER_05: I had back surgery, I have a titanium plate in my L5S1.
1:14:39
SPEAKER_05: I'm a mess.
1:14:41
SPEAKER_05: But jujitsu is the only way I know how to lose weight.
1:14:45
SPEAKER_05: So I'm rolling the last month.
1:14:47
SPEAKER_05: I've been rolling every night with fly weights.
1:14:50
SPEAKER_05: 125 pounders.
1:14:51
SPEAKER_05: I need to be able to throw dudes off me.
1:14:53
SPEAKER_05: If I've struggled with anybody, like where I can't throw them off, it's too much.
1:14:57
SPEAKER_05: I'm gonna get hurt.
1:14:58
SPEAKER_05: I know I'm gonna hurt myself.
1:15:00
SPEAKER_05: So yeah, that's what I'm currently doing right now, just rolling with 125 pounders, and you you roll fucking anybody, man.
1:15:08
SPEAKER_05: And you're seven years older than me.
1:15:11
SPEAKER_05: That's crazy.
1:15:12
SPEAKER_03: Well, so I've been lucky, and a lot of it is being willing to tap, like that ego stuff.
1:15:18
SPEAKER_03: Like I've I have protected myself as much as I can.
1:15:21
SPEAKER_03: I have a diet that is healthy for me.
1:15:24
SPEAKER_03: I don't push my plant based on anybody else, but I I think I'm healthy.
1:15:28
SPEAKER_03: But also, it is though pick your partners.
1:15:30
SPEAKER_03: Like you said, it's not exactly true.
1:15:31
SPEAKER_03: You said I'll roll with everybody.
1:15:33
SPEAKER_03: I used to roll with anybody, anybody, anybody.
1:15:36
SPEAKER_03: I remember the first day I stopped doing that.
1:15:38
SPEAKER_03: There was a steroided out black belt that Higgin used to have.
1:15:40
SPEAKER_03: I'm not gonna mention his name, but the guy was like so aggressive or whatever.
1:15:43
SPEAKER_03: And we used to have wars and I would win.
1:15:45
SPEAKER_03: And I remember one day saying, you know what?
1:15:46
SPEAKER_03: I don't want to go home feeling like this again.
1:15:48
SPEAKER_03: Like I got nothing to prove with this guy.
1:15:50
SPEAKER_03: And I started, it was the first time I ever said no, thank you, because I would say yes to anybody.
1:15:53
SPEAKER_03: So now I'll pretty much train with anybody, but I'm careful of the size.
1:15:57
SPEAKER_03: And you know what's happened?
1:15:58
SPEAKER_03: Now that I look older, I think people are just they assume they need to be careful with me, which they really don't.
1:16:03
SPEAKER_03: So, like where I train in black sheep, guys are respectful, they're nice, they're chill.
1:16:07
SPEAKER_03: So I can train with heavy guys, but they're not gonna put and they can put all their weight if they want to, but if I give them the opportunity, but basically I'm not getting injured from that.
1:16:16
SPEAKER_03: I don't know if you remember, like, I've had so few injuries, I'm very, very lucky.
1:16:19
SPEAKER_03: I've always been stretching, always had yoga, had yoga since I was a little kid because my mom had arthritis, she had all these medical things, and standard medicine just wasn't doing it for her.
1:16:26
SPEAKER_05: You do saunas?
1:16:28
SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah, I love saunas everything and cold plunge, I think.
1:16:30
SPEAKER_03: Game changer is a sauna.
1:16:32
SPEAKER_03: 100%, 100%.
1:16:33
SPEAKER_03: But the I've had very few injuries, like knock on wood, and I want like tomorrow I'd get injured.
1:16:37
SPEAKER_03: But one of them was you remember Seth, the big huge wrestler dude down from the valley.
1:16:41
SPEAKER_03: Yes, Seth Goodall.
1:16:43
SPEAKER_03: He used to go to war with me because he really wanted to beat me.
1:16:45
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, that guy's like 280 pounds.
1:16:47
SPEAKER_03: He was like a Rico Rodriguez size, yeah.
1:16:49
SPEAKER_03: And one day we're rolling, we're fighting really hard, and he's like going crazy.
1:16:53
SPEAKER_03: This was many years ago.
1:16:54
SPEAKER_03: And he like tries to come around my guard, and so I kind of twist to kind of bail out to my hands and knees, and he catches me right as I'm making the twist and does like a body spin right on my floating rib, and like it took the rib right out of place.
1:17:07
SPEAKER_03: That was the worst injury I've ever had.
1:17:09
SPEAKER_03: It just hurt, it healed.
1:17:10
SPEAKER_03: But aside from like a few things like that, so I wouldn't, if I was facing a 280-pound wrestler guy right now, and he starts to train like that with me, I might just say, dude, calm it down, because I just don't want to sacrifice my body.
1:17:23
SPEAKER_03: But I think it's very smart that you're going with light people.
1:17:25
SPEAKER_03: I think the whole thing about aging, because people talk to me about that a lot, it's the number one thing to me is like pick your partners.
1:17:30
SPEAKER_03: And we can talk about warm-up and we can talk about all that stuff too, but just pick your partners, just have partners that go chill.
1:17:36
SPEAKER_03: Like you could, if we ever wanted to roll, I'm not uh flyweight, but either someone who has great control who's not good, just understands, like ask people like what's going on.
1:17:45
SPEAKER_05: When people ask me, can you roll with me?
1:17:48
SPEAKER_05: It's not that I think they're gonna hurt me.
1:17:51
SPEAKER_05: I'm like, if I can just bench press you off, I'm gonna hurt myself going against you.
1:17:58
SPEAKER_05: I understand.
1:17:59
SPEAKER_05: You know what I mean?
1:17:59
SPEAKER_05: Yeah because I'm not claiming anybody's gonna hurt me.
1:18:03
SPEAKER_05: Like, you know, I'm gonna hurt myself if I'm in a fucking war with like Fedor or like fucking Sam.
1:18:10
SPEAKER_05: That's gonna be a fucking war.
1:18:12
SPEAKER_05: And my shoulder, like I'm I can barely hang with flyweights right now.
1:18:16
SPEAKER_05: I wake up in the morning fucking my back is just frozen.
1:18:20
SPEAKER_05: Like all like just until recently, my back is starting to warm up.
1:18:24
SPEAKER_05: My back's frozen all day because my muscles, because of the metal that's in my back, my muscles just clamp and they just clamp over that like there's something wrong.
1:18:33
SPEAKER_05: You got metal in your fucking in your back.
1:18:35
SPEAKER_05: So that's what's going on.
1:18:36
SPEAKER_05: And my L4 needs to be replaced too, but I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna do it.
1:18:41
SPEAKER_05: I'm just gonna live with it.
1:18:42
SPEAKER_05: Because that surgery that I went through, that was just like they went through the front, dude, and they take all your guts out and they do the back surgery through the front now.
1:18:49
SPEAKER_05: I ain't doing that shit no more.
1:18:51
SPEAKER_05: I'm good.
1:18:51
SPEAKER_03: Well, listen, so while we're on it, what about what treatments are you taking, you know, peptides, anything like that?
1:18:59
SPEAKER_03: Anything you swear about?
1:19:00
SPEAKER_05: You know what?
1:19:00
SPEAKER_05: I I did BP157 a little bit when my shoulders were fucked up.
1:19:05
SPEAKER_05: I had shoulder surgery on this shoulder, and then I had a torn labrum on this shoulder and tried some BP 157, and I don't really don't know if it did anything, to tell you the truth.
1:19:15
SPEAKER_05: I don't know.
1:19:16
SPEAKER_05: But then I got later I got stem cells and that fixed it.
1:19:19
SPEAKER_05: The stem cells fixed this shoulder and it fixed this shoulder because I re-injured that.
1:19:23
SPEAKER_05: So stem cells work depending on where you get them because there's a lot of ripoff companies in the United States.
1:19:29
SPEAKER_05: The best stem cell company is in Mexico.
1:19:33
SPEAKER_05: CPI.
1:19:34
SPEAKER_05: Go check out CPI.
1:19:35
SPEAKER_05: That shit fix this shoulder, fix this shoulder.
1:19:38
SPEAKER_05: I'm like a hundred, a thousand percent sold on them.
1:19:41
SPEAKER_05: But peptides, I don't like who knows what's inside them.
1:19:45
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no, I know.
1:19:46
SPEAKER_03: My wife can't even get me to take vitamins.
1:19:48
SPEAKER_03: I'm just terrible sometimes.
1:19:49
SPEAKER_03: I just I think I expect my body will just deal with it over time, and it has, that's worked so far, but it's slowing down.
1:19:55
SPEAKER_03: I've got a hip thing finally starting to feel right now that I think I'm rehabbing and I think it's actually gonna go away.
1:20:01
SPEAKER_03: But a lot of guys have gotten hip replacements.
1:20:03
SPEAKER_03: Hajier got two hip replacements, it's like the same day, I think.
1:20:06
SPEAKER_03: John Will just had hip replacements.
1:20:08
SPEAKER_05: I have two students that have hip.
1:20:09
SPEAKER_05: Chris Verzog, Connor Eun.
1:20:11
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and they're they're still on the mats, man.
1:20:14
SPEAKER_03: Hey, I'll tell you what, you hold out as long as you can because the science gets better.
1:20:17
SPEAKER_03: Of course, you don't want to get yourself really deteriorated, but science gets better, the everything gets better, and I think you can keep training.
1:20:25
SPEAKER_03: So I don't take anything, I don't take testosterone, I don't take, like I say, I don't take creatine, I don't take anything.
1:20:30
SPEAKER_03: Not that I wouldn't if I thought it would be really helpful.
1:20:33
SPEAKER_03: I did just get a shot of cortisone in my right knee because I got leg barred like in a world championship surprise dog bar.
1:20:38
SPEAKER_03: I just caught me by surprise and kind of popped my knee like two years ago and it's still hurting.
1:20:43
SPEAKER_03: And I'm trying to rehab my hip.
1:20:44
SPEAKER_03: I can't be doing that while my knee is like I need only one thing on the leg at a time.
1:20:48
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:20:48
SPEAKER_03: So I just got a cortisone shot a couple days ago, and right now it's you don't want to do that a lot.
1:20:52
SPEAKER_03: But doctors looked at my knee and said, You know, it's just a painkiller.
1:20:56
SPEAKER_03: I know, I know, but I'll take it.
1:20:57
SPEAKER_03: I don't think it's gonna fix anything.
1:20:59
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but no, and you don't want to do it a lot, but that's like the first time I've done anything in a really long time.
1:21:03
SPEAKER_03: But just before we leave Jiu Jitsu, if you've got a minute for music and and dog eat, one of the amazing ways that you have innovated is in the competition formats.
1:21:13
SPEAKER_03: Just love it.
1:21:14
SPEAKER_03: Like EBI, all that kind of stuff.
1:21:15
SPEAKER_03: Is EBI you mentioned before we talked that maybe it's on a pause because there's some sort of we're in contract negotiations with the UFC.
1:21:23
SPEAKER_05: Okay, so it may or may not end up on Fight Pass in the future.
1:21:27
SPEAKER_05: And I hope it does, but it all depends on how the negotiations go.
1:21:32
SPEAKER_05: Who knows?
1:21:32
SPEAKER_05: It could end up on fucking ESPN, you never know.
1:21:35
SPEAKER_03: Well, I love the format.
1:21:37
SPEAKER_03: The incentives cause people to act the way they act.
1:21:40
SPEAKER_03: That's just the way it is in life, right?
1:21:42
SPEAKER_03: My wife's an economist.
1:21:43
SPEAKER_03: Like, you want something good to happen in the world, make the incentives for the good thing.
1:21:47
SPEAKER_03: Yep.
1:21:47
SPEAKER_03: Right?
1:21:47
SPEAKER_03: And it's that way in rules and you mean in the rules for fighting.
1:21:50
SPEAKER_03: I don't like when there's a referee who's like the third player.
1:21:53
SPEAKER_03: We used to deal with that all the time, and we would call it like the Brazilian advantage.
1:21:56
SPEAKER_03: Like, basically, if I'm fighting a Brazilian, he's got two points when we step on the mat.
1:21:59
SPEAKER_03: I'm sorry.
1:22:00
SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
1:22:01
SPEAKER_03: Always, because it could be a Brazilian.
1:22:02
SPEAKER_03: So I always hated that.
1:22:03
SPEAKER_03: I don't even like when a referee drags guy what like says break and reset like your second Hoiler match.
1:22:10
SPEAKER_03: Like, just drag them over.
1:22:11
SPEAKER_03: Don't make guys recreate a complicated position.
1:22:15
SPEAKER_03: Whatever happened, just dragging guys back to the middle and then like go.
1:22:19
SPEAKER_03: But I basically as little to do with refs as possible is what I like.
1:22:23
SPEAKER_03: Let the two guys do it.
1:22:24
SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
1:22:25
SPEAKER_03: I love the finishes, I love the EBI overtime.
1:22:28
SPEAKER_03: Why did you select armbar?
1:22:32
SPEAKER_03: I mean, to start for the EBI overtime, the spider web, right?
1:22:35
SPEAKER_03: And back control with a seatbelt.
1:22:38
SPEAKER_03: There's other versions.
1:22:40
SPEAKER_05: The rear naked choke and or the arm bar is the epitome of jujitsu.
1:22:46
SPEAKER_05: And what I mean by that is if like you had a like a silhouette logo for your school and it was a dude, like you just saw a shadow of a dude on their back.
1:22:56
SPEAKER_05: You know what it is.
1:22:56
SPEAKER_05: You know, that's jujitsu.
1:22:57
SPEAKER_05: Or if you saw an arm bar with like a silhouette, jiu-jitsu.
1:23:01
SPEAKER_05: But if you saw like a freeze frame of a guard pass, you'd be like, what is that?
1:23:05
SPEAKER_03: Well, no, when I was thinking like a tr a loose triangle position or wrap the ankle 50-50, something like that.
1:23:13
SPEAKER_03: Okay, go with it.
1:23:14
SPEAKER_05: There's no leg locks at OT because there's enough time, 10 minutes in regulation, because back then it was all leglock spamming and go, okay, let's take it to OT.
1:23:23
SPEAKER_05: And I wanted it to be positions that nobody would be against.
1:23:28
SPEAKER_05: Like if I would have had, like, okay, let's start in a rubber guard position, or let's start in the twister and go live, they would think I was gearing it for me.
1:23:36
SPEAKER_05: So I go, let's make it so the Brazilians won't complain.
1:23:40
SPEAKER_05: You either start in rear naked choke or arm bar, nothing unorthodox.
1:23:44
SPEAKER_05: The most basic and traditional, the epitome of jujitsu, will make that the OT.
1:23:49
SPEAKER_05: So you have no complaints.
1:23:50
SPEAKER_05: If I would have had a rubber guard option or a twister option or a leg lock option, the Brazilians would go, that's some bullshit.
1:23:58
SPEAKER_05: I totally get it.
1:23:59
SPEAKER_05: It's brilliant.
1:24:00
SPEAKER_03: No excuses.
1:24:00
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I don't have a problem with those two things.
1:24:02
SPEAKER_03: I was just wondering, like, how did you settle on those two?
1:24:04
SPEAKER_03: Specifically, so you have no excuses.
1:24:05
SPEAKER_03: Well, I think it's amazing.
1:24:06
SPEAKER_03: I love the format.
1:24:07
SPEAKER_03: And by the way, you're wearing Comeback Jiu Jitsu.
1:24:09
SPEAKER_03: I love that format.
1:24:11
SPEAKER_03: I don't know if you're still related to this.
1:24:13
SPEAKER_03: No, I know about Denny.
1:24:14
SPEAKER_03: So Denny lives up in my area now, and you know, we're friends, I haven't talked to him in a while, but I remember when he was training for something like that.
1:24:20
SPEAKER_03: But I just think it is the most fun.
1:24:23
SPEAKER_03: I'm not gonna switch now.
1:24:24
SPEAKER_03: We can do another podcast about like real fighting and self-defense because I have a lot of stuff on that and where jujitsu sport is diverging and all that kind of stuff.
1:24:31
SPEAKER_03: But the one thing I would suggest I think should just be part of all jujitsu is slaps.
1:24:36
SPEAKER_03: I'm just sorry.
1:24:37
SPEAKER_03: If you can't protect your face, then the barambola you're doing or whatever else that you're doing is not really serving you.
1:24:45
SPEAKER_03: It's getting so far into sport, which I think is fine if you want to do sport, but for me, I would just say any day we're doing jujitsu.
1:24:51
SPEAKER_03: I guess not hard, yeah, but I just kind of make you pay attention to it's a martial art, man.
1:24:57
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
1:24:58
SPEAKER_03: That's how it was when we were starting, like when we were talking, like you were even describing how someone would grab your hair.
1:25:02
SPEAKER_03: Well, if you were starting now, you wouldn't be worried about someone grabbing your hair because the rules don't allow it.
1:25:06
SPEAKER_03: But we were learning how to fight.
1:25:07
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
1:25:08
SPEAKER_03: Right?
1:25:08
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
1:25:09
SPEAKER_05: I mean, it's it's real, it was real simple for me.
1:25:12
SPEAKER_05: I got into jujitsu because of the UFC.
1:25:16
SPEAKER_05: I didn't get into the UFC and already had jujitsu in my life.
1:25:20
SPEAKER_05: I got into jujitsu because I saw the UFC.
1:25:23
SPEAKER_05: I saw that jujitsu was the dominant martial art at that time.
1:25:27
SPEAKER_05: And and it still is if you separate all the martial arts.
1:25:31
SPEAKER_05: It's still jujitsu is still gonna be dominant.
1:25:33
SPEAKER_05: If you take all the martial arts and you put the top dudes that only do that martial art, jujitsu is always gonna win.
1:25:40
SPEAKER_05: If you don't know how to fight on the ground, easy fight for jujitsu.
1:25:42
SPEAKER_05: But now that everybody is cross-training and everybody does jujitsu, everybody does wrestling, every everybody does striking.
1:25:49
SPEAKER_05: And the rule set.
1:25:50
SPEAKER_05: I mean, the UFC's five-minute rounds and they all start standing.
1:25:54
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, there's many matches in the UFC where there is no jujitsu.
1:25:59
SPEAKER_05: And it got to the point now with the five-minute matches, if you get the fight hits the ground and there's a minute and a half left, just survive.
1:26:06
SPEAKER_05: Mastering offense in jiu-jitsu is not that necessary.
1:26:12
SPEAKER_05: Look at Israel Adasania.
1:26:14
SPEAKER_05: That guy's an insane striker, one of the greatest strikers of all time.
1:26:18
SPEAKER_05: His jiu-jitsu doesn't need to be elite, it just needs to be good enough to not get it.
1:26:22
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, it doesn't need to be that crazy because his striking is so out of this world that if he could just survive on the ground, the round's gonna end.
1:26:30
SPEAKER_05: Maybe you lost that round because you got a takedown.
1:26:32
SPEAKER_05: But next round you stand up and you it's a five-round main event.
1:26:36
SPEAKER_05: You got all these stand-ups.
1:26:39
SPEAKER_05: So what ended up happening with jujitsu, from my point of view, not everyone's point of view, I was into jujitsu, I was into jujitsu because of the UFC.
1:26:49
SPEAKER_05: So my jiu-jitsu, I wanted to, it was very important that jujitsu not only represented well in the UFC, but was put in like realistic positions where we get data, like what works and what doesn't.
1:27:02
SPEAKER_05: And what happened real quick in the UFC was in the beginning, none of these guys Hoyce was fighting except for Ken Shamrock, but most of the guys had no idea how to fight on the ground.
1:27:14
SPEAKER_04: Right.
1:27:14
SPEAKER_05: So it didn't matter whether Hoyce trained in a gi or no gi or 50% gi, 50% no gi.
1:27:23
SPEAKER_05: Even if you trained a hundred percent gi, and if you train a hundred percent gi and you're a black belt and you go against a guy who's never had any grappling, and you guys are both no-gi, the jiu-jitsu guy's still gonna whoop your ass, even though it's no gi, even though he's never trained no gi ever, because his opponent has no jujitsu.
1:27:44
SPEAKER_05: So it's not gonna matter.
1:27:46
SPEAKER_05: But if his opponent trained 10 years no gi and he never trained in the gi, and you trained 10 years in the gi, never trained no gi, it's gonna be a problem, right?
1:27:59
SPEAKER_05: Right.
1:28:00
SPEAKER_05: There's gonna be a problem there.
1:28:02
SPEAKER_05: So, what happened over the course of maybe 10-15 UFCs as more UFC fighters started training jiu-jitsu, like they didn't in the beginning.
1:28:14
SPEAKER_05: None of those guys, none of those guys trained in the beginning, as time went on, everybody was training jujitsu.
1:28:21
SPEAKER_05: So now all the little details mattered.
1:28:24
SPEAKER_05: And what I started seeing was like, damn, you would see like I saw a Hicks and Gracie black belt go against Matt Hughes.
1:28:35
SPEAKER_05: And that Hicks and Gracie black belt, he had Matt Hughes in full guard most of the match, but didn't throw up any submission attempts.
1:28:46
SPEAKER_05: And I was watching this with my buddies who knew nothing about jiu-jitsu.
1:28:50
SPEAKER_05: I'm like a white belt or maybe a blue belt, going, oh, that guy's gonna kill the two wife.
1:28:54
SPEAKER_05: He's gonna arm bar and watch.
1:28:55
SPEAKER_05: He goes, okay.
1:28:56
SPEAKER_05: He's gonna arm bar and watch.
1:28:57
SPEAKER_05: He's gonna arm bar him.
1:28:58
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, he's gonna arm bar.
1:28:59
SPEAKER_05: Well, no, no, no, no, no, next round, he's gonna arm bar him.
1:29:02
SPEAKER_05: He never even tried.
1:29:03
SPEAKER_05: I'm like, damn.
1:29:04
SPEAKER_05: I go, what is going on here?
1:29:06
SPEAKER_05: I was like perplexed.
1:29:07
SPEAKER_05: I go, why isn't he going for an arm bar?
1:29:10
SPEAKER_05: And then I saw the same thing, I forget what Brazilian it was, legendary Brazilian.
1:29:15
SPEAKER_05: It may have been Fabio Girgel against the Jerry Bolander, who was from Ken Shamrock's Lion's Den, which they were basically like a catch wrestling type school.
1:29:27
SPEAKER_05: They were doing a lot of grappling, but more catch wrestling based.
1:29:32
SPEAKER_05: And it may have been.
1:29:34
SPEAKER_03: I remember Romario Sperry, I remember also fought.
1:29:36
SPEAKER_05: So he had Jerry Bolander in the guard, and I'm like, same thing.
1:29:39
SPEAKER_05: He's gonna arm bar him.
1:29:40
SPEAKER_05: Why are you gonna get a triangle?
1:29:41
SPEAKER_05: We do it all every day in class.
1:29:43
SPEAKER_05: We do it all, it's so easy.
1:29:44
SPEAKER_05: He's gonna, and then nothing happened.
1:29:46
SPEAKER_05: So really quick, I realized oh my god, what's going on is the jujitsu guys, when they practice jujitsu, they're practicing with a gi.
1:29:54
SPEAKER_05: So when they're doing the arm bars and when they're doing the triangles, the setups are all based on gi grips.
1:30:00
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, and that's the step number one.
1:30:02
SPEAKER_05: Like, I'm gonna show you an arm bar from the guard or an omaplata from the guard or a triangle from the guard.
1:30:10
SPEAKER_05: The very first step is gonna be what part of the gi did you grab with the right hand, and what part of the gi are you grabbing with the left hand?
1:30:18
SPEAKER_05: That's number one.
1:30:20
SPEAKER_05: So when your opponent has no gi, your number one step is not there.
1:30:25
SPEAKER_05: That's the problem.
1:30:26
SPEAKER_05: So it became a problem.
1:30:28
SPEAKER_05: Like, I see what's going on.
1:30:29
SPEAKER_05: These guys aren't really spending enough time, no gi with strikes, setting up the submissions.
1:30:35
SPEAKER_05: Right.
1:30:36
SPEAKER_05: That when they work their jujitsu training, they're convinced that the gi training is gonna automatically translate no gi with strikes, and that nothing could be further from the truth.
1:30:45
SPEAKER_05: That's why you never really saw all the great guard work that you see every day in class.
1:30:51
SPEAKER_05: You're not seeing it in the octagon.
1:30:53
SPEAKER_05: Like why, like you're seeing armbars, triangles, and homoplatos all day in class, but then in the MMA in the MMA with these black belts against wrestlers, no gi, you're not seeing shit.
1:31:05
SPEAKER_05: Why?
1:31:05
SPEAKER_05: Because they're not spending enough time setting these submissions up without the gi.
1:31:11
SPEAKER_05: Totally different, and you had strikes.
1:31:14
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that changes.
1:31:15
SPEAKER_05: In the beginning, headbuts were legal.
1:31:17
SPEAKER_05: That was a whole nother fucking clusterfuck.
1:31:19
SPEAKER_05: And then elbows and punches, and you don't have collars and sleeve.
1:31:23
SPEAKER_05: So to me, it was really clear.
1:31:25
SPEAKER_05: The only way we're gonna be able to fight against this dilemma is you gotta train this shit every day.
1:31:34
SPEAKER_05: You gotta take away the key, because that's the problem.
1:31:38
SPEAKER_05: That's how I saw it, based on me being the biggest jujitsu fan, me wanting jujitsu to win.
1:31:46
SPEAKER_05: I never was rooting for the wrestler over the jujitsu guy.
1:31:50
SPEAKER_05: I don't give a fuck.
1:31:51
SPEAKER_05: If that wrestler was Mexican and he was born in this in the same city my mom was born in, going against a Brazilian jiu-jitsu guy, I'm going for the jiu-jitsu guy.
1:32:02
SPEAKER_05: I don't care if he's Mexican.
1:32:03
SPEAKER_05: In MMA, it's style over blood.
1:32:08
SPEAKER_05: What I care about is the style.
1:32:10
SPEAKER_05: I never was like backing like Mexican fighters because they were Mexican.
1:32:13
SPEAKER_05: I love Brandon Moreno, I love him to death.
1:32:16
SPEAKER_05: There's some Mexican guys I love the death, but only because your jiu-jitsu is good.
1:32:20
SPEAKER_05: Brandon Moreno didn't have any jiu-jitsu, I would, I wouldn't be really looking.
1:32:24
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I wouldn't even care.
1:32:25
SPEAKER_05: It was very important for me, the jiu-jitsu, because it started off on top.
1:32:30
SPEAKER_05: First couple years, no, no one had any doubt.
1:32:32
SPEAKER_05: Jiu-jitsu's number one.
1:32:34
SPEAKER_05: But then after a while, wrestlers started finging up jujitsu guys and neutralizing them.
1:32:38
SPEAKER_05: And then some jujitsu guys got knocked out, like Conan and Silvillera got head kicked by Maury Smith.
1:32:44
SPEAKER_05: We're going, oh my god, jujitsu's falling apart.
1:32:46
SPEAKER_05: So, what all I was trying to do was trying to help jujitsu.
1:32:49
SPEAKER_05: And we gotta fix this shit.
1:32:51
SPEAKER_05: We gotta get good at the guard without the ghee.
1:32:55
SPEAKER_05: So it could be looked at, especially through the eyes of the elders in jujitsu.
1:33:00
SPEAKER_05: Like I was a traitor to jujitsu.
1:33:02
SPEAKER_05: Like, oh I never thought that for a second.
1:33:04
SPEAKER_05: No, no, because you knew me.
1:33:05
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, and neither did Jean-Jacques, and I love they they knew what I was.
1:33:08
SPEAKER_05: I'm trying to help jujitsu.
1:33:10
SPEAKER_05: I'm like, listen, are we in love with this fucking gi?
1:33:15
SPEAKER_05: It's like a karate uniform.
1:33:17
SPEAKER_05: Dude, we're getting our asses smoked in UFC.
1:33:19
SPEAKER_05: We gotta fucking do something now.
1:33:22
SPEAKER_05: So, really, 10th Planet, when I started 10th Planet from day one, tapped out Hoiler, quit my show on the man show.
1:33:29
SPEAKER_05: It was all like, okay, cool.
1:33:31
SPEAKER_05: So for the next couple years, I'm gonna, it'll be operation.
1:33:34
SPEAKER_05: Let's fix the bottom game in MMA.
1:33:37
SPEAKER_05: I'll be doing this for like two years max.
1:33:39
SPEAKER_05: I'll get a record deal and then I'm gone.
1:33:41
SPEAKER_05: But until I get that record deal, let me solve some of the MMA bottom game problems that we're having.
1:33:48
SPEAKER_05: Let's develop a real half guard for MMA, real strategy when there's strikes.
1:33:56
SPEAKER_05: It's a clinching game.
1:33:57
SPEAKER_05: Everything's gotta be around the clinch because they're striking.
1:34:00
SPEAKER_05: We got to stop the striking, number one.
1:34:02
SPEAKER_05: So you gotta wrap them up and then not only wrap them up for defense, but wrap them up for your offense.
1:34:09
SPEAKER_05: So the problem is these guys that are practicing in the gi all day, then they go MMA and they don't really spend the time with the overks and underooks, they're clinching.
1:34:18
SPEAKER_05: They're for sure gonna clinch, whether they're holding on for dear life.
1:34:21
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, they're holding on for dear life and it's all defensive.
1:34:23
SPEAKER_05: Right, right.
1:34:23
SPEAKER_05: But what if you could that style was actually offense and the defense was just like a fringe benefit?
1:34:31
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
1:34:31
SPEAKER_05: That's what I'm playing.
1:34:32
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah.
1:34:33
SPEAKER_05: My style, I'm getting the clinch when there's no strikes for the offense.
1:34:37
SPEAKER_05: But if there was punches, I would still be doing the same thing.
1:34:40
SPEAKER_05: And it would defend me without even thinking about it.
1:34:42
SPEAKER_05: Because I want the clinch anyways for the offense.
1:34:44
SPEAKER_05: Right.
1:34:45
SPEAKER_05: Not just to survive.
1:34:46
SPEAKER_05: So that was the style I was trying to push.
1:34:49
SPEAKER_05: Because clinching stops all striking.
1:34:51
SPEAKER_05: Because when they're striking, it's easy to clinch.
1:34:53
SPEAKER_05: Like in boxing, it's so easy to clinch that you need the referee to constantly separate guys from clinching.
1:34:59
SPEAKER_05: Why are they clinching?
1:35:00
SPEAKER_05: To stop from getting knocked out.
1:35:01
SPEAKER_05: It works in grappling.
1:35:02
SPEAKER_05: You clinch to stop from getting knocked out.
1:35:05
SPEAKER_05: Great.
1:35:05
SPEAKER_05: But then you yeah, you got to have offense from there too.
1:35:08
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
1:35:08
SPEAKER_05: So that's what my whole style is based on is clinching, not for the defense, for the offense.
1:35:14
SPEAKER_05: And if they're striking, it's just gonna take care of itself anyways.
1:35:17
SPEAKER_05: You don't even have to change your style.
1:35:19
SPEAKER_03: I think that's brilliant.
1:35:20
SPEAKER_03: And that's the point I was gonna make when you were talking about the need to train no-gi.
1:35:25
SPEAKER_03: It's not just to train no-gi, it's to develop a style in no-gi that works in MMA, which is exactly what you did.
1:35:32
SPEAKER_03: So when I think of like mission control, like how it you're it's a full guard, it's a closed guard.
1:35:38
SPEAKER_03: Anyone who's watching MMA today would say, Whoa, that's a very bad position to be in.
1:35:41
SPEAKER_03: The guy's hovering over you, ground and pound, all that kind of stuff.
1:35:44
SPEAKER_03: But I've been in your mission control, and I'm sure it's a billion times better now than it was back then, where you are locked up.
1:35:51
SPEAKER_03: Like I am stuck, and what's about to happen if I that I can't stop is I'm gonna get triangled, or I'm going to get armboard.
1:35:58
SPEAKER_03: I can't stop it because you've created these, you've you've set in these steps, which I think is a really important part of jujitsu too.
1:36:05
SPEAKER_03: It's not just you're not like leaping out like I was saying the catch wrestle is just go for this, finish, go for that, finish.
1:36:10
SPEAKER_03: You're so meticulous that like you do this and then you go to do that.
1:36:14
SPEAKER_03: And then giving them the names, I think, is brilliant too, because that helps people then understand and remember what they're doing.
1:36:20
SPEAKER_05: That's the whole reason.
1:36:20
SPEAKER_03: Is that why you were doing that?
1:36:22
SPEAKER_05: Well, that's like wrestling.
1:36:23
SPEAKER_05: Wrestling, every move has a name.
1:36:24
SPEAKER_05: There's no move that doesn't have a name.
1:36:26
SPEAKER_05: How are you gonna teach something if you can't name it?
1:36:28
SPEAKER_05: I know, I know.
1:36:29
SPEAKER_03: When I was learning jiu-jitsu, there were lots of moves that had no name.
1:36:32
SPEAKER_03: And when and once it got a name, once someone said the term half guard, because there used to just be, and in in my lifetime in jiu-jitsu, in Brazilian jujitsu, you kind of latch onto the guy's leg.
1:36:43
SPEAKER_03: Okay, so now he's halfway out of guard.
1:36:44
SPEAKER_03: But we didn't think of this as like a legit position called half guard that has really good sweeping potential and all that stuff.
1:36:52
SPEAKER_03: But as soon as someone started calling it half guard, then we started to look at it and say, oh, well, what is this thing called half-guard?
1:36:57
SPEAKER_03: Look, that's kind of a cool position.
1:36:58
SPEAKER_03: So you got the underhook, you can come out on top.
1:37:01
SPEAKER_03: So I really agree with what you're saying.
1:37:03
SPEAKER_03: And the fact that they're fun names and really interesting names, I don't know if you ever regretted any of those.
1:37:07
SPEAKER_05: Oh, I regret a lot of them.
1:37:08
SPEAKER_05: I call the uh there's a move called the douchebag.
1:37:11
SPEAKER_05: I wish I could take that back.
1:37:12
SPEAKER_05: Like we in regards to Rubber Guard, there's not that many uh UFC fighters in the history of the UFC that have mastered the rubber guard or practiced it enough to actually utilize it, but there have been a handful.
1:37:26
SPEAKER_05: There have been like 20.
1:37:27
SPEAKER_05: And in all instances, in all MMA, whether it's UFC, Bellator, all that.
1:37:33
SPEAKER_05: Anytime Rubber Guard has been used, and it's been used a lot in Japan.
1:37:37
SPEAKER_05: On most MMA fighters don't know how to use it.
1:37:40
SPEAKER_05: They don't, they just don't have anybody teaching them.
1:37:42
SPEAKER_05: They've somehow been convinced that it's a waste of time.
1:37:45
SPEAKER_05: But if you do the data analysis, you'll see that not one person in the history of the rubber guard being used at MMA, and it's been used a lot.
1:37:54
SPEAKER_05: No one has ever been knocked out.
1:37:55
SPEAKER_05: Got knocked out.
1:37:56
SPEAKER_05: No one's ever been knocked out.
1:37:58
SPEAKER_05: The primary function of rubber guard is just defense.
1:38:02
SPEAKER_05: Like if someone you're on your back, you're a striker, you didn't want to be on the back, but you you have all you have is defensive rubber guard, you get to mission control, get to crackhead control.
1:38:10
SPEAKER_05: Another name that I regret.
1:38:12
SPEAKER_05: Regardless of what you name it, if you're doing proper rubber guard, it's impossible to get knocked out.
1:38:16
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, it's impossible.
1:38:18
SPEAKER_05: So when in regards to safety first, defense first, and MMA rubber guard, just boom, just make sure you don't get knocked out.
1:38:26
SPEAKER_05: The referee will stand you up.
1:38:27
SPEAKER_05: You could look at it like that and get a lot of mileage out of that strategy.
1:38:32
SPEAKER_05: Or you could learn how to use it offensively, and the D, you don't even have to think about defense because if you're using it offensively, the defense is automatic and you don't have to think about it.
1:38:41
SPEAKER_05: It's just like automatic.
1:38:42
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:38:43
SPEAKER_03: So are you?
1:38:44
SPEAKER_03: You mentioned someone you're with Fedor tonight.
1:38:47
SPEAKER_03: Are you training people right now on that specifically?
1:38:50
SPEAKER_05: Yes.
1:38:50
SPEAKER_05: Oh, yeah.
1:38:51
SPEAKER_05: Fedor is one of my top guys.
1:38:53
SPEAKER_05: Fedor, Dom Lobo, he's a rubber guard master.
1:38:57
SPEAKER_05: We're working on rubber guard all the time.
1:38:58
SPEAKER_05: People can say it worker works for a dozen, whatever, but I know that it's just noises.
1:39:04
SPEAKER_05: I got guys like Dom Lobo.
1:39:05
SPEAKER_05: Shit, you don't think his rubber guard works?
1:39:07
SPEAKER_05: Get in his rubber guard, you're telling me don't work.
1:39:09
SPEAKER_05: He fucks people up.
1:39:10
SPEAKER_05: He has, and maybe you could find the B-roll.
1:39:12
SPEAKER_05: You could find Dominic Lobo, Dom Lobo.
1:39:15
SPEAKER_05: He was in combat jujitsu, and he knocked out a guy in a gogo platter, just had a go-go plata, choke at him, and knocked him the fuck out.
1:39:23
SPEAKER_05: Have you seen that video?
1:39:23
SPEAKER_05: No, I haven't.
1:39:24
SPEAKER_05: Oh yeah, it's like it's one of the most viral jujitsu videos ever.
1:39:27
SPEAKER_05: You need to b-roll that shit.
1:39:29
SPEAKER_05: We'll get it.
1:39:29
SPEAKER_05: Dom Lobo, Go-Go Plata.
1:39:31
SPEAKER_05: You could go to his Instagram, uh, Dominic Lobo, BJJ, watch the Gogo Plata knockout.
1:39:37
SPEAKER_05: It's never been done in the history of the fucking world, not even in Greco-Roman times with fucking Thanos.
1:39:44
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah.
1:39:44
SPEAKER_05: All right.
1:39:45
SPEAKER_05: This has never been done.
1:39:46
SPEAKER_05: People still have doubts with RubberGuard.
1:39:48
SPEAKER_05: It's because you have to have an instructor that is good at it.
1:39:52
SPEAKER_05: And there ain't that many people that are good at it that will teach you the right way.
1:39:56
SPEAKER_05: Because there's instructors that are actually good at it, but they're not teaching it the right way.
1:40:01
SPEAKER_05: It's a long process, but it's worth it.
1:40:03
SPEAKER_05: Look into Richie Boogeyman Martinez.
1:40:06
SPEAKER_05: You could put his highlight rail, last no-gee worlds.
1:40:09
SPEAKER_05: He four matches and everybody rubber guarded and finished them.
1:40:13
SPEAKER_05: Four guys in a row, the exact same way.
1:40:16
SPEAKER_05: Nobody had any kind of offense or any kind of attack allowed.
1:40:20
SPEAKER_05: He goes out there, wrestles a little bit, pulls guard, and then just attacks and it's over.
1:40:25
SPEAKER_05: Four guys.
1:40:25
SPEAKER_05: And this is a nightmare.
1:40:27
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, it was no-gee worlds, IBJ JF at the black belt level.
1:40:30
SPEAKER_03: Boom.
1:40:31
SPEAKER_03: At the time when you were getting better than me, purple belt, brown belt for you, my only defense against it was stay out of your guard.
1:40:39
SPEAKER_03: That was my thing.
1:40:40
SPEAKER_03: It's like don't go into Eddie's guard.
1:40:42
SPEAKER_03: And by the way, don't go into his half guard either.
1:40:44
SPEAKER_03: Like, I don't know what to do.
1:40:45
SPEAKER_03: Pull him into my guard.
1:40:46
SPEAKER_03: You know, that's the only thing I could do with that.
1:40:48
SPEAKER_03: That's a good strategy.
1:40:49
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but we sailed past that.
1:40:52
SPEAKER_03: Could we talk about music for a minute?
1:40:54
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
1:40:54
SPEAKER_03: All right.
1:40:55
SPEAKER_03: So I'll share with you a little bit about my my music history and stuff like that.
1:40:58
SPEAKER_03: But it's a lie that people don't like your stuff.
1:41:00
SPEAKER_03: I actually found you on Spotify.
1:41:01
SPEAKER_03: I really liked a lot of the stuff that I was hearing, at least on Spotify.
1:41:04
SPEAKER_03: I don't know where else your stuff is.
1:41:05
SPEAKER_05: There's a few songs.
1:41:06
SPEAKER_05: The last album I released is on Spotify and Apple Music.
1:41:10
SPEAKER_05: It's called Hook Thieves.
1:41:11
SPEAKER_05: The album is called Jar of Lies.
1:41:13
SPEAKER_05: It's like a parody on Alice and Chain's Jar of Flies.
1:41:16
SPEAKER_01: It's a parody album, Hook Thieves.
1:41:33
SPEAKER_03: I liked it.
1:41:34
SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
1:41:35
SPEAKER_03: A link between music and martial arts.
1:41:37
SPEAKER_03: For me, I think my music I've been a musician since I was a little kid.
1:41:41
SPEAKER_03: My dad left high school in San Diego, went out to New York, got into like show biz, we're talking like the 40s kind of thing, and started doing songwriting.
1:41:51
SPEAKER_03: And he wrote songs, a song called For Heaven's Sake, that was recorded by lots of people.
1:41:55
SPEAKER_03: Billy Holidays, like stuff like he was in that whole world.
1:41:58
SPEAKER_03: And then he moved out to the West Coast, did some stuff with Elvis, I mentioned, and then kind of left that business.
1:42:03
SPEAKER_03: So I knew I'm gonna be a musician when I grew up.
1:42:06
SPEAKER_03: And I'm also like this really altruistic guy.
1:42:08
SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna save the world.
1:42:09
SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna like write music.
1:42:11
SPEAKER_03: Either I'll make a lot of money and help the world, or I'll write songs that inspire people, help the world.
1:42:15
SPEAKER_03: And so like when I went to I did go to college, I graduated high school, went to UCLA.
1:42:19
SPEAKER_03: I didn't buy a book because I didn't care about my grades.
1:42:22
SPEAKER_03: I just wanted to learn because I want to be an educated guy.
1:42:24
SPEAKER_03: So I will took classes that I wanted to take.
1:42:27
SPEAKER_03: I didn't care what my grades were because if anyone would ask me, it's like I'm not going, I'm not becoming a lawyer after college or something.
1:42:33
SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna be a musician.
1:42:34
SPEAKER_03: And I was playing in bands.
1:42:36
SPEAKER_03: And then through high school, I was on Dr.
1:42:38
SPEAKER_03: Demento.
1:42:39
SPEAKER_03: I played in this joke band called the Abysmal Pepto.
1:42:41
SPEAKER_03: Remember Dr.
1:42:41
SPEAKER_03: Demento?
1:42:42
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I do remember.
1:42:43
SPEAKER_03: We had a song who was like number four on Dr.
1:42:44
SPEAKER_03: Demento.
1:42:45
SPEAKER_03: I got all this stuff I can play for.
1:42:46
SPEAKER_01: We're gonna hear a song next about a remarkable robot from Chicago.
1:42:50
SPEAKER_04: Dr.
1:42:51
SPEAKER_04: Demento.
1:43:00
SPEAKER_02: I was born with a test tube at my home's in Chicago.
1:43:04
SPEAKER_02: I've got my Rex on the forehead and a stone in my heart.
1:43:08
SPEAKER_03: Went to Israel for a year after I graduated college because my girlfriend was there for a year studying, and so I had nothing to do.
1:43:14
SPEAKER_03: I was just kind of hanging out with her because we were hiding from her parents.
1:43:17
SPEAKER_03: They didn't want us to be together.
1:43:18
SPEAKER_03: So she went to take a year in another country, and I went there too, and they didn't know I was there.
1:43:21
SPEAKER_03: And I started of teaching jujitsu there, training jiu-jitsu there, Karab Maga stuff in Israel.
1:43:26
SPEAKER_03: But started this band called Something from Nothing, and we were like the hot shit for foreigners, for expats who were in Jerusalem.
1:43:34
SPEAKER_03: It was really great.
1:43:37
SPEAKER_02: Goodbye, misery.
1:44:00
SPEAKER_00: Oh my god.
1:44:00
SPEAKER_03: Anyway, but when I came back, that's when I really got serious with music, and I knew like I was gonna be in music and got involved in this band that had been called Curves that had been signed, had an album out under Capitol Records, but didn't get promoted because the same AR guy had Jay Guiles band or something, and they were promoting him instead.
1:44:17
SPEAKER_03: So I played for years, and we had this rehearsal space out in Chatsworth, and I was keyboards at that time.
1:44:23
SPEAKER_03: And actually, our manager was Tom Skeeter, who was Rick Springfield's manager.
1:44:29
SPEAKER_03: Remember him?
1:44:30
SPEAKER_03: Kind of a candy rock, you know?
1:44:31
SPEAKER_03: He was his manager.
1:44:32
SPEAKER_05: He's like seven years old and he's shredded and he's yoked right now.
1:44:35
SPEAKER_05: Is he still around?
1:44:36
SPEAKER_05: He's shredded, he's playing now.
1:44:38
SPEAKER_05: He's big, he's like big now, he's making a resurgence, and he his body looks like he's 30.
1:44:42
SPEAKER_05: That's crazy.
1:44:43
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, see what he's doing.
1:44:44
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, he's shredded.
1:44:45
SPEAKER_03: So, but but Tom Skeeter also owned Sound City, which it was the big recording studio out in the valley.
1:44:50
SPEAKER_03: I don't know if you remember Metallica recorded there, yes recorded there, all these bands recorded there.
1:44:54
SPEAKER_03: So we had access to that to do demos, and we did some demos, and Sha'll play them for you sometimes.
1:44:59
SPEAKER_03: Really good.
1:45:06
SPEAKER_02: Do not know you belong with a love.
1:45:13
SPEAKER_03: But like I said, we were good, but not great, and you had to be great.
1:45:16
SPEAKER_03: And we had a big list, we would play the whiskey, we would play the Roxy, we would play like the Palomino and stuff, and we could fill the place, so they loved it because we had people that can't would come and dance and stuff, but we just I just got soured on it because and then my guys in the band, we were all friends and stuff, and they wanted fun, but they were mainly mainly more, I think, out for the girls and what most people are out for.
1:45:37
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but I like wanted to save the world, and so that's how I moved away from that and then started to move into what I wanted to do to save the world, which is the animal stuff.
1:45:45
SPEAKER_03: But for what I've always thought with the music and jujitsu is okay, first timing.
1:45:51
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, timing is important, intensity, volume, right?
1:45:55
SPEAKER_03: So if I want to sucker you in, I turn down my volume.
1:45:57
SPEAKER_03: It's like how you lean in when the music goes in, and then suddenly you get hit with like the loud thing.
1:46:01
SPEAKER_03: I do that in jujitsu.
1:46:03
SPEAKER_03: Just all these different things I do with music where I think music and jujitsu kind of, and I wonder, do you see those parallels?
1:46:09
SPEAKER_03: Do you feel those parallels?
1:46:10
SPEAKER_03: How you're creating your system?
1:46:11
SPEAKER_05: Well, the parallels that I see are when in regards to music, I was mixing everything: metal, hip-hop, EDM, chick singers, acoustic, the pesh mode, the cure, nine and snails, slayer.
1:46:33
SPEAKER_05: I was really into mixing everything up together.
1:46:37
SPEAKER_05: I was doing hip-hop metal with keyboards and piano 10 years before Lincoln Park.
1:46:42
SPEAKER_05: I was doing that way shit.
1:46:44
SPEAKER_05: So when people hear my shit now, they go, oh, Lincoln Park, they go, dude, I was doing that way before Lincoln Park.
1:46:48
SPEAKER_05: I was doing that shit in the early 90s.
1:46:50
SPEAKER_05: And the first Lincoln Park album came out in 2000.
1:46:53
SPEAKER_05: So that's how I correlate that with jujitsu.
1:46:57
SPEAKER_05: With like jujitsu, I was open to mixing things, cross-training, catching catch wrestling, jujitsu, yeah, whatever worked, Indonesian wrestling, if there's a good move there.
1:47:07
SPEAKER_05: So I was always open to all forms of grappling.
1:47:13
SPEAKER_05: Jiu-jitsu is always number one, but I look, I look at The Twister's a wrestling move.
1:47:17
SPEAKER_05: That's not even a jiu-jitsu move.
1:47:18
SPEAKER_05: The Brazilians thought I made that up.
1:47:20
SPEAKER_05: They thought I came up with that move.
1:47:22
SPEAKER_05: I'm like, dude, that's a high school wrestling move.
1:47:24
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, that's how my music is.
1:47:26
SPEAKER_05: My music is a mixture of everything that feels good to me.
1:47:30
SPEAKER_05: Not like I don't like all music.
1:47:32
SPEAKER_05: I'm not mixing in.
1:47:33
SPEAKER_05: I'm not like a jazz guy, I'm not an opera guy, I'm not a funk guy.
1:47:38
SPEAKER_05: I like, I was a metalhead that like goth, and I like like trance EDM too.
1:47:45
SPEAKER_05: Dark wave.
1:47:46
SPEAKER_05: I got my I'm not into blues, I'm not into jazz, I'm not into that shit.
1:47:52
SPEAKER_05: People are into that, that's not me.
1:47:53
SPEAKER_05: I'm into metal, goth, new wave, dark wave, that kind of shit.
1:48:00
SPEAKER_05: You know, so but I mix all that shit.
1:48:02
SPEAKER_05: I mix it all in together.
1:48:03
SPEAKER_05: I don't mix everything, but I mix in a lot of different genres, and that's how my jujitsu is pretty much.
1:48:10
SPEAKER_03: I totally see that.
1:48:11
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, for me in music, we were never, we were straight ahead pop rock, danceable, rock band, or whatever.
1:48:16
SPEAKER_03: I like a lot of the stuff that you're saying too, but I am a blues kind of classic rock.
1:48:20
SPEAKER_03: I mean, Zephyr.
1:48:21
SPEAKER_05: Most people love blues, you know.
1:48:22
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
1:48:23
SPEAKER_05: My heroes love, like one of my heroes is Ace Freely.
1:48:26
SPEAKER_05: He was all in blues.
1:48:27
SPEAKER_05: Of course, of course.
1:48:28
SPEAKER_05: But I wasn't.
1:48:28
SPEAKER_05: I like what he took from blues and made it hard rock and metal.
1:48:31
SPEAKER_05: I like that, but I don't like a Mexican, I don't like mariachi, I don't like uh samba, you know what I mean?
1:48:38
SPEAKER_05: I don't like any of that.
1:48:39
SPEAKER_05: I just metal, rock, goth, EDM.
1:48:43
SPEAKER_05: I love electronic stuff as long as it's has like a epic feel to it with a little melancholy vibe.
1:48:49
SPEAKER_03: I was gonna say that doesn't lend itself to live performance.
1:48:52
SPEAKER_03: It does, but then you're being more like DJ and like managing the stuff.
1:48:56
SPEAKER_03: Do you do?
1:48:57
SPEAKER_03: Did you ever, other than the DJing, which is in its own way a live performance, right?
1:49:02
SPEAKER_03: Do you ever play music live or are you doing all recording?
1:49:05
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, like the album I just released is a it's like an acoustic parody, political, funny, dirty type little fun band.
1:49:15
SPEAKER_05: I generally produce music for real singers and real rappers.
1:49:20
SPEAKER_05: I make the music, put it all together, I produce it.
1:49:23
SPEAKER_05: I do write a lot of like joke songs that have never, I never thought of putting on an album.
1:49:28
SPEAKER_05: They're just like for my friends.
1:49:29
SPEAKER_05: And we're here with my coo, we like jam here, and I'll we'll just I'll come up with like dirty shit, violent shit, racist shit.
1:49:38
SPEAKER_05: It just never thinking to release.
1:49:41
SPEAKER_05: I've always done that.
1:49:42
SPEAKER_05: And my voice sucks.
1:49:43
SPEAKER_05: So I would like, I'm not gonna like, why would I release this?
1:49:45
SPEAKER_05: This is just for my buddies.
1:49:46
SPEAKER_05: And if the song is funny enough, it doesn't matter that your voice sucks.
1:49:50
SPEAKER_05: But during the scandemic, man, songs were just pouring out of me, just like left and right, like never before.
1:49:58
SPEAKER_05: So I wrote all these crazy.
1:50:00
SPEAKER_05: Songs during the pandemic, scamdemic, sorry.
1:50:03
SPEAKER_05: Excuse me.
1:50:04
SPEAKER_05: Then Armon would start playing piano during it, like we would just be like, and then they turned into like songs that we'd play at parties, UFC parties.
1:50:12
SPEAKER_05: And then I thought, damn, how many songs we got?
1:50:14
SPEAKER_05: And I go, let's make an album.
1:50:16
SPEAKER_05: And it was like not planned.
1:50:17
SPEAKER_05: We had all the songs written.
1:50:18
SPEAKER_05: I go, dude, we could do an album.
1:50:20
SPEAKER_05: So did an album, put it out, but it's parody comedy album.
1:50:25
SPEAKER_05: Again, it's a hook thieves.
1:50:26
SPEAKER_05: Hook thieves on Apple Music, Spotify, YouTube.
1:50:31
SPEAKER_05: The album's called Jar of Lies.
1:50:33
SPEAKER_05: The lyrics are ridiculous, but I try to counterbalance it by making the music as epic and as pretty and beautiful as possible so that you don't really notice that the lyrics are ridiculous.
1:50:47
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, no, I know.
1:50:48
SPEAKER_05: So it's a joke in itself.
1:50:49
SPEAKER_05: The music is a joke in itself.
1:50:51
SPEAKER_05: Like trying to, it's so the lyrics, but if you make the music cinematic enough, it could make it.
1:50:59
SPEAKER_05: You take it seriously.
1:51:01
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, you might not even know that it's a joke.
1:51:02
SPEAKER_05: There's some people that might like a song or two, and they don't have no idea that they're liking it for the wrong reasons.
1:51:08
SPEAKER_05: They think I'm saying this, but I'm actually saying the opposite.
1:51:10
SPEAKER_05: And you just have to do that.
1:51:12
SPEAKER_05: That is very funny.
1:51:13
SPEAKER_03: This is reminding me a little bit about my days with the abysmal peptos, which was maybe a little bit more the doctor and mentor, which was a little bit more silly.
1:51:19
SPEAKER_03: But we had a song, I don't know if I'm gonna have to cut this, but called Chainsaw Love.
1:51:23
SPEAKER_03: I won't whine you and I won't dine you.
1:51:26
SPEAKER_03: But when all the boys decline you of your beauty, I'll remind you I will take you to my tower and treat you like a queen.
1:51:33
SPEAKER_03: And the word between comes up and it has to do with the chainsaw.
1:51:36
SPEAKER_03: So, and people would go crazy because it's such a sweet song.
1:51:39
SPEAKER_03: So I'm like playing the piano guitar.
1:51:41
SPEAKER_03: It's this beautiful song, and you're like, it's like you're setting someone up for for a knockout, and then you're suddenly jamming a chainsaw.
1:51:47
SPEAKER_05: It's just like I love that's no that that's what this whole album is.
1:51:51
SPEAKER_03: We are in your HQ, we're sitting by Cage, we've got the mat over here, but we are in a corner where there is a piano and there is guitars.
1:52:00
SPEAKER_03: Like you've also got your music stuff right here.
1:52:01
SPEAKER_03: It's like your love.
1:52:02
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah.
1:52:03
SPEAKER_05: After class, it's not uncommon that we do some karaoke and we jam those songs on the album.
1:52:08
SPEAKER_05: We played live, we've done a few gigs with Barn Venice and then the one in Torrance, a couple gigs.
1:52:15
SPEAKER_05: One in Austin, we did a gig.
1:52:17
SPEAKER_05: Nobody showed up.
1:52:18
SPEAKER_05: You got a mailing list?
1:52:19
SPEAKER_05: No.
1:52:22
SPEAKER_03: You put it on your socials?
1:52:23
SPEAKER_05: I'm not even trying, dude.
1:52:25
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I put out an album, didn't send it to any record companies, record executives, AR people.
1:52:30
SPEAKER_05: Like the music doesn't have to be.
1:52:31
SPEAKER_05: This business is so different now.
1:52:34
SPEAKER_03: Back in the day when I was involved in it, there was a lot, you know, there was a lot of shit and stuff going on.
1:52:38
SPEAKER_03: But the main thing was you just wouldn't own it, you would lose your soul.
1:52:42
SPEAKER_03: Like you wouldn't get the money from it.
1:52:43
SPEAKER_03: Playing live is the only way you'd really make any money, unless you became like a big star.
1:52:47
SPEAKER_03: But I think it's become democratized a lot with Spotify and shit like that.
1:52:50
SPEAKER_03: People can put their own stuff on there.
1:52:51
SPEAKER_03: I think that's a good thing.
1:52:52
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:52:53
SPEAKER_03: AI.
1:52:54
SPEAKER_03: So my experience with Suno, I had some friend who was doing some stuff with AI, and I'm all into AI, I'm using it for lots of things, whatever, it's a tool.
1:53:02
SPEAKER_03: And he said, Hey, we it can like make your song really great or something.
1:53:06
SPEAKER_03: Like, what are you talking about?
1:53:07
SPEAKER_03: So I have tons of songs that I've never recorded, right?
1:53:10
SPEAKER_03: I have songs like about animal stuff that I care about that's like expressing something I believe in, like this one, like who's afraid of the big bad wolf?
1:53:16
SPEAKER_03: And it's talking about why people are scared of wolves, and then it goes and talks about hey, wolves are really cool, and then like who's afraid of a shark, and like what how sharks are scary, but they're actually kind of cool.
1:53:25
SPEAKER_03: But then it talks about people.
1:53:27
SPEAKER_03: Like, what do people do?
1:53:28
SPEAKER_03: We kill sharks, we kill wolves, we like rape our mates, and it's like this turnaround thing, like members of the human race, hold a mirror to your face, now you're looking at the big bad wolf.
1:53:37
SPEAKER_03: And it's just cool, I'm never gonna record that.
1:53:39
SPEAKER_03: I got all these things I'm never gonna record.
1:53:40
SPEAKER_03: He says, put it on a guitar, just sing it, like Aki, whatever, sing.
1:53:44
SPEAKER_03: I give him a couple of these songs, and you notice if you know sooner, and he gives it back to me, and it's like totally produced, it's amazing.
1:53:51
SPEAKER_03: And I just like almost brought tears to my eyes, like, because I it's the first time I've like had that reaction to like a technology because I thought, wow, this has the ability to take something I wanted to say and help me say it in a way that I don't ever have the time to do it.
1:54:05
SPEAKER_03: Now, I just didn't totally agree with exactly you know the production, and I don't want to spend time on Suno like tweaking this and tweaking that, but I could see the value, not in AI originating music, which maybe it'll do at some point, but it's all derivative.
1:54:22
SPEAKER_03: It can, it can.
1:54:23
SPEAKER_03: But in taking something that is human written, and in the same way I would have gone on with my buddies and worked with them to get it the way I wanted, it would have taken weeks, or I could go pay someone else to arrange it or whatever.
1:54:35
SPEAKER_03: I'm just giving it to someone else to arrange.
1:54:37
SPEAKER_03: That someone happens to be an AI, but I just thought that was it blew me away.
1:54:42
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
1:54:43
SPEAKER_05: I loved it.
1:54:43
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I'm all into it too.
1:54:44
SPEAKER_05: I'm fell in into it the same way.
1:54:47
SPEAKER_05: I produced maybe 10 different projects.
1:54:51
SPEAKER_05: And each project I was writing my heart out, putting together these songs, and then the project fell apart, didn't get a record deal, but the the plan was like, oh shit, with these shitty little four-track task cam songs that I'm producing, like the dream is to get signed to a major label and get major label production with a high-level producer taking these shitty little four-track demos and and giving them same song, same lyrics, but that's everyone's goal.
1:55:17
SPEAKER_05: That's every songwriter's goal.
1:55:19
SPEAKER_05: That's everybody that's ever been in a band.
1:55:21
SPEAKER_05: Right.
1:55:21
SPEAKER_05: Their goal is to get a major record label to sign them and then get major label production.
1:55:29
SPEAKER_05: And then have your song that you recorded in your fucking garage with either a ghetto blaster or a little four-track or eight-track task camp.
1:55:36
SPEAKER_05: Task camp.
1:55:37
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, that's what I did.
1:55:38
SPEAKER_05: That's I did that my whole life.
1:55:40
SPEAKER_05: And then you don't get signed, that project goes you know down the twos, but you still have all those songs, and then you have a new project, new songs.
1:55:47
SPEAKER_05: Hopefully, can I get these songs on a major record deal and to have it sound like Rick Rubin produced it?
1:55:54
SPEAKER_05: That didn't work.
1:55:56
SPEAKER_05: And then the next project, another 10 songs, fails, falls apart, break up, arguments.
1:56:02
SPEAKER_05: Next project.
1:56:03
SPEAKER_05: So I've had all these projects over the last 40 years.
1:56:06
SPEAKER_05: I was three deep in projects by the time I started jujitsu.
1:56:10
SPEAKER_05: I was like, dude, I was making music through my whole teens and everything.
1:56:13
SPEAKER_05: Project after project, nobody signs me.
1:56:18
SPEAKER_05: There's no rec major record labels signing me.
1:56:21
SPEAKER_05: There's no Bob Rock producing my shit, making it sound like a million dollars.
1:56:26
SPEAKER_05: It still sounds like$30 production.
1:56:29
SPEAKER_05: AI gets a bad rap for like AI evil, AI demon, AI this.
1:56:35
SPEAKER_05: And it can be.
1:56:37
SPEAKER_05: In regards to music, you think like AI music bad.
1:56:41
SPEAKER_05: Like you think it's just black and white, but you don't understand how to compose music.
1:56:46
SPEAKER_05: It's a two because it is bad if you use AI to write your lyrics and to write your music.
1:56:52
SPEAKER_05: Like AI can do that.
1:56:54
SPEAKER_05: AI can write your lyrics.
1:56:55
SPEAKER_05: You just prompt it.
1:56:56
SPEAKER_05: Say, hey, write a song about a guy, meets a girl, and the girl leaves the guy because she finds another dude and guy is depressed.
1:57:03
SPEAKER_05: And then the music, you make it sound like 80s synthesis.
1:57:06
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah.
1:57:07
SPEAKER_05: And boom, 20 seconds, you got a song.
1:57:09
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
1:57:09
SPEAKER_05: That's those songs suck.
1:57:11
SPEAKER_05: And it's like, oh, AI is writing music.
1:57:13
SPEAKER_05: Writing music is easy.
1:57:15
SPEAKER_05: Writing lyrics is easy.
1:57:16
SPEAKER_05: Kids write poems.
1:57:17
SPEAKER_05: It's not that hard.
1:57:18
SPEAKER_05: But AI is never gonna write a song for you, like where it wrote the lyrics and it wrote the music, and you're gonna put it on repeat.
1:57:25
SPEAKER_05: It's not gonna happen.
1:57:26
SPEAKER_05: There's no way AI can do that.
1:57:28
SPEAKER_05: Impossible.
1:57:29
SPEAKER_05: It's not gonna write its song.
1:57:30
SPEAKER_05: If you're putting on an AI song on repeat, you're yeah, you're not discriminating taste.
1:57:35
SPEAKER_05: The songs you put on repeat come from human experiences.
1:57:38
SPEAKER_05: AI can't do that.
1:57:39
SPEAKER_05: But it's not black and white.
1:57:41
SPEAKER_05: Production.
1:57:42
SPEAKER_05: You could take a song, and this is what I'm doing, this is what you're doing.
1:57:45
SPEAKER_05: Songs that I wrote 25 years ago that are just sitting collecting dust in the archives of my hard drive of music that I will never go back and reproduce that shit.
1:57:56
SPEAKER_05: I don't have time.
1:57:56
SPEAKER_05: You know how much money it costs to do one song high level?
1:58:00
SPEAKER_05: Because I am doing high-level shit.
1:58:01
SPEAKER_05: I have high-level engineers now.
1:58:03
SPEAKER_05: Now I do Danny Lohner.
1:58:05
SPEAKER_05: I pay him and he makes high-level shit, high-level major, but it takes forever for one song.
1:58:12
SPEAKER_05: It might take two years.
1:58:13
SPEAKER_05: By the time we get together, we get together for two days, and then he's doing all other shit, and then we get back to six months later, and then it takes forever.
1:58:20
SPEAKER_05: No, it's later.
1:58:22
SPEAKER_05: So now with AI, with Suno, you could take all those songs, and I'm that's what I'm doing.
1:58:27
SPEAKER_05: I've been doing this for like six months, taking all the songs that were not gonna do anything.
1:58:33
SPEAKER_05: Past projects that I'm not gonna redo.
1:58:35
SPEAKER_05: I don't have, I would like to redo it.
1:58:37
SPEAKER_05: I would like to see how it would sound with major label because I still got this old songs, I still keep track of them, but I ain't gonna do it.
1:58:42
SPEAKER_05: It's gonna cost too much money, too much time.
1:58:45
SPEAKER_05: But now I could take those old songs uploaded to Suno, and it takes the song, a completed song, with lyrics and vocal melodies and the same chord structures, the same music.
1:58:55
SPEAKER_05: You tell it what you want, and then you it give it pops back the same song, but if it was signed a major label with major label production, insane, the masterings done, yeah, everything, the mixing, the production, same song.
1:59:12
SPEAKER_05: I know.
1:59:12
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I know.
1:59:13
SPEAKER_05: That's what brought tears to my eye.
1:59:14
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, so that's what I'm doing.
1:59:16
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, so what I'm doing is I'm taking all the projects that I've done before and having Lana Del Rey sing them.
1:59:22
SPEAKER_05: I love it.
1:59:22
SPEAKER_05: Oh Lana Del Rey versions of all my old songs.
1:59:26
SPEAKER_05: So no matter what it is, whether it's a rap, it's Lana Del Rey rapping.
1:59:29
SPEAKER_05: Whether it's speed metal, it's Lana Del Rey doing speed metal.
1:59:33
SPEAKER_05: Whether it's like all the the I produced a lot of actual Lana style songs.
1:59:38
SPEAKER_05: I've done a I was doing Gina, but the first female vocalist I was working with, first four songs we did was in 2000.
1:59:45
SPEAKER_05: Lana Del Rey was like 11.
1:59:46
SPEAKER_05: We were already doing that, like super sexual, like old style, not doing vocal gymnastics like, you know, because like Lana Del Rey isn't singing like like Christina Aguilera.
1:59:58
SPEAKER_05: She's not singing like Beyonce, she's not doing vocal gymnastics, which I appreciate and which is amazing.
2:00:03
SPEAKER_05: But I like vocalists that are just all soul, like Lana Del Rey and like Gina, my first vocalist.
2:00:09
SPEAKER_05: So when I listen to Lana Del Rey, I'm like, oh my God, that's what Gina was trying to do, but we didn't have the major label production, but Lana's doing what me and Gina were doing.
2:00:17
SPEAKER_05: So what I'm doing now is all my shit, Lana Del Rey.
2:00:22
SPEAKER_05: I got a playlist on YouTube.
2:00:23
SPEAKER_05: I have like, I've done a million songs already, a million versions, but I have like the top 23 Lana Del Rey covers.
2:00:31
SPEAKER_05: So basically, the playlist is called If Lana Covered.
2:00:36
SPEAKER_05: So basically, every video is gonna be If Lana Covered, Social Distancing by Hook Pete.
2:00:58
SPEAKER_05: That's what I'm I'm obsessed with now.
2:01:00
SPEAKER_05: So now all these old songs that I would have never resurrected, now I get to see what they sound like if they're if I would have got signed.
2:01:09
SPEAKER_05: So that's the beauty.
2:01:11
SPEAKER_05: So I put them all on a playlist called If Lana Covered.
2:01:14
SPEAKER_05: And then all the songs, If Lana covered Tonight It Ends by Smoke Serpent, If Lana covered Falling Under by Temple of Mere, all these different projects that I produce.
2:01:23
SPEAKER_05: And then you want to say, oh, that's AI, that's fake.
2:01:25
SPEAKER_05: Why don't you go in the description, click the link, and you'll see what who wrote that song?
2:01:30
SPEAKER_05: You'll see the AI write that song, or did I write that song?
2:01:33
SPEAKER_05: So I'm having fucking fun with that, dude.
2:01:35
SPEAKER_05: I fucking love it.
2:01:36
SPEAKER_05: Put it on shuffle.
2:01:38
SPEAKER_05: Smoke a number, if Lana covered playlist, smoke a join, put it on shuffle, boom, and then come back and talk to me.
2:01:47
SPEAKER_03: I love it, man.
2:01:48
SPEAKER_03: I really love it.
2:01:49
SPEAKER_03: It's a great use of AI.
2:01:50
SPEAKER_05: Hell yeah, I love it.
2:01:51
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
2:01:51
SPEAKER_05: And AI can never fuck with jujitsu.
2:01:54
SPEAKER_05: AI can take over every job.
2:01:56
SPEAKER_05: That's exactly it ain't taking over jujitsu because what people pay for, the reason why there's money in jujitsu is for the rolling.
2:02:02
SPEAKER_05: You can't have AI rolling.
2:02:04
SPEAKER_03: 100%.
2:02:04
SPEAKER_05: You know what I mean?
2:02:05
SPEAKER_05: The true interpersonal AI ain't fucking with jiu-jitsu at all.
2:02:09
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, your job is secure.
2:02:10
SPEAKER_05: Oh my god.
2:02:11
SPEAKER_05: Like, I don't have to worry about that.
2:02:13
SPEAKER_03: I love AI.
2:02:14
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, I know what you're saying.
2:02:16
SPEAKER_03: All right, just before I let you go, animals.
2:02:18
SPEAKER_03: What's the cat cafe you said you're doing?
2:02:20
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I got currently I have 13 cats, and we're using my house right now as a cat rescue.
2:02:27
SPEAKER_05: And out of the 13, six are actually mine.
2:02:31
SPEAKER_05: Seven are fosters that we're fostering.
2:02:33
SPEAKER_05: And we're just we're just trying to, me and my wife trying to save as many cats as possible.
2:02:37
SPEAKER_05: And we are definitely doing the groundwork for a cat rescue slash cafe.
2:02:42
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
2:02:43
SPEAKER_05: We want to open up a cat cat face rescue where you go, you hang out with the cats, it's Wi-Fi, you have coffee, cat cafe.
2:02:51
SPEAKER_05: If you get attached to one, you could adopt it.
2:02:53
SPEAKER_05: And we're like, that's what we're doing.
2:02:54
SPEAKER_05: I love a couple of cats.
2:02:55
SPEAKER_05: Like we're just we got like five cats out here in the back at night.
2:02:58
SPEAKER_05: I feed them every night.
2:02:59
SPEAKER_03: The alley cats.
2:03:00
SPEAKER_03: I'm I'm obsessed with cats.
2:03:02
SPEAKER_03: I love cats.
2:03:03
SPEAKER_03: Okay, if I didn't love you before, which I did, I love you double now.
2:03:06
SPEAKER_05: I think because anybody so okay, so cats are like when I feed cats, like every night, dude.
2:03:11
SPEAKER_05: I'm fucking broken after training.
2:03:15
SPEAKER_05: Dead.
2:03:16
SPEAKER_05: I can't even sometimes I can't even hang out.
2:03:18
SPEAKER_05: I'm like, I just need to go home and go to bed.
2:03:21
SPEAKER_05: But it feels so good that there's no way I'm not gonna feed those fucking cats.
2:03:26
SPEAKER_05: If I have food, there's no matter how tired, I'm gonna go get them.
2:03:29
SPEAKER_05: They're high, they're hiding behind these buildings and shit.
2:03:32
SPEAKER_05: As soon as I click the clack, clutch, they all come out, boom.
2:03:36
SPEAKER_05: And then it's it feels so good to feed a cat.
2:03:42
SPEAKER_05: It feels so good.
2:03:43
SPEAKER_05: Like you're bonding with them, like you're feeding them and they get closer.
2:03:47
SPEAKER_05: Every time you feed them, they get closer to you and they trust you more.
2:03:51
SPEAKER_05: I fucking love that.
2:03:52
SPEAKER_05: That's what I love about cats, is they'll only show you love if you show them love.
2:03:57
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, you're like dogs, dogs are like like a reflection of God.
2:04:02
SPEAKER_05: A dog will love everybody unconditionally, like God.
2:04:07
SPEAKER_05: And it's weird, the dog is God backwards.
2:04:09
SPEAKER_05: So like a like a dog is like a reflection of God.
2:04:13
SPEAKER_05: Like, damn, they just love you, no questions asked, and they love everybody.
2:04:17
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, a stranger comes over, they love you.
2:04:19
SPEAKER_05: Cats are not like that.
2:04:21
SPEAKER_05: A cat's are a reflection of you, not of God, because a cat will do for you what you do for it.
2:04:28
SPEAKER_05: If you ain't gonna give that cat no love, the cat don't give a f about you.
2:04:32
SPEAKER_05: He can care less about you if you care less about it.
2:04:34
SPEAKER_05: But if you show it love and you feed it and you pet it, then it gives you love back.
2:04:40
SPEAKER_05: I like I'm obsessed with that.
2:04:41
SPEAKER_05: I'm obsessed with the personal connections I have with all my cats.
2:04:45
SPEAKER_05: Every cat is a different.
2:04:46
SPEAKER_05: We cuddle a different way, I pet them a different way, they act a different way.
2:04:51
SPEAKER_05: Every cat is totally different, they all got their own personalities.
2:04:54
SPEAKER_05: Litters are my favorite.
2:04:56
SPEAKER_05: Like we had a litter of four recently, and just bringing them up, they're like two months.
2:05:02
SPEAKER_05: Watching them with cats is like it's insane what you can learn from cats, how amazing they are, because like a dolphin, a baby dolphin, learns everything from their mother, learns how to hunt, where to stay away from.
2:05:18
SPEAKER_05: Cats, they are the most perfect killing machines on earth.
2:05:24
SPEAKER_05: All cats, tigers, house cats, jaguars, perfect killing machines that need no private training.
2:05:32
SPEAKER_05: They know, they don't need no one to show them.
2:05:36
SPEAKER_05: They are perfect killing machines, they know how to stop, they're the most athletic, the most graceful, the most beautiful creatures.
2:05:43
SPEAKER_05: There's no animals more athletic than cats.
2:05:47
SPEAKER_05: They're the most athletic, the most graceful, and they're the top predators, they're the best at killing and knowing how to show them.
2:05:56
SPEAKER_05: It's all in their instincts.
2:05:58
SPEAKER_05: They all know.
2:05:59
SPEAKER_05: As kitties, all they do is practice killing each other.
2:06:02
SPEAKER_05: They're just practice killing each other.
2:06:04
SPEAKER_05: But they they they pull guard, cats pull guard all the time.
2:06:07
SPEAKER_05: So when people say guard pulling is for pussies, watch cats.
2:06:10
SPEAKER_05: They pull guard all the fucking time.
2:06:12
SPEAKER_05: Because they pull guard and they want to use their hind legs to scratch your fucking organs.
2:06:16
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, you know, just cut.
2:06:18
SPEAKER_05: I'm fucking fascinated with their instincts.
2:06:23
SPEAKER_05: Not only it's it in their blood that they're like perfect killing and hunting machines, but they know how to clean themselves.
2:06:30
SPEAKER_05: No one taught them how to clean.
2:06:32
SPEAKER_05: They never watched their mom.
2:06:33
SPEAKER_05: They know exactly how to clean themselves.
2:06:34
SPEAKER_05: They're killing the phone, they're like, uh-uh-uh-uh.
2:06:40
SPEAKER_05: They know how to clean themselves.
2:06:41
SPEAKER_05: Like, how who taught them that?
2:06:43
SPEAKER_05: They know how to kill and they know exactly where to go when there's like a loud noise.
2:06:49
SPEAKER_05: They don't ever stutter, they go right behind the couch or right behind this fucking dresser.
2:06:56
SPEAKER_05: They know exactly where to go in a flash when there's some shit going down.
2:07:00
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, they don't like go and go, oh my god, what's going on?
2:07:02
SPEAKER_05: They know where to go, they bolt, you know what I mean?
2:07:04
SPEAKER_05: And they all they sleep, the litter sleep together, they play together, they they groom each other together.
2:07:10
SPEAKER_05: I fucking love I can I feel like Jane Goodall of cats.
2:07:13
SPEAKER_05: I'm like, God damn, these creatures are amazing.
2:07:17
SPEAKER_03: They are.
2:07:17
SPEAKER_03: I mean, all animals are in different ways, but cats certainly are.
2:07:20
SPEAKER_03: And okay, so I've grew up mainly with dogs, came absolutely love cats.
2:07:25
SPEAKER_03: A cat taught me how to love cats.
2:07:27
SPEAKER_03: I was living out in Chatsworth decades ago, out in this mountain-y kind of thing, off the beaten track, walked outside my house, was doing some kung fu, I used to do kung fu in high school, like deep stance, and out of nowhere, off of like this rock, there's no houses around, a cat walks up and jumps on my thigh looking at me.
2:07:44
SPEAKER_03: I didn't know cats, I'd never had a cat.
2:07:46
SPEAKER_03: And that cat like adopted me.
2:07:48
SPEAKER_04: Damn.
2:07:49
SPEAKER_03: And then stayed with me.
2:07:50
SPEAKER_03: We would go on walks together.
2:07:51
SPEAKER_03: That cat knew all the neighborhood dogs, was cool with them, and that cat literally taught me how to deal with cats.
2:07:57
SPEAKER_03: And exactly all the stuff that you're saying, how you go to them is amazing.
2:08:00
SPEAKER_03: It's like a they have a wisdom, you know what I mean?
2:08:02
SPEAKER_03: It's like they are an incarnation almost of like something else, like an old soul.
2:08:06
SPEAKER_03: That's what that cat was was an old soul.
2:08:08
SPEAKER_05: That's why Egyptians worshiped him.
2:08:10
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
2:08:10
SPEAKER_03: So I thought I was gonna be a musician, all that kind of stuff.
2:08:13
SPEAKER_03: I was gonna save the world.
2:08:14
SPEAKER_03: And then what happened was one night I get this call that a cousin of mine tragically died, a young cousin of mine got run over, and I'm like, shit, life is short.
2:08:22
SPEAKER_03: And I'm not like succeeding at this music stuff.
2:08:24
SPEAKER_03: What if I die tomorrow?
2:08:25
SPEAKER_03: I didn't like help the world.
2:08:26
SPEAKER_03: So I thought, and I was like, I don't know, 28 years old, and I thought, well, what how do I want to help the world?
2:08:31
SPEAKER_03: What if I did it right now?
2:08:32
SPEAKER_03: What if I quit my job?
2:08:33
SPEAKER_03: I was working like computers or law firm.
2:08:35
SPEAKER_03: And I said, Well, I want to help like the less fortunate, like kids or people who are like, I hate bullies.
2:08:41
SPEAKER_03: I've always hated bullies.
2:08:42
SPEAKER_03: That's my whole martial arts stuff.
2:08:44
SPEAKER_03: But animals, man, they're in the face of humans, they're defenseless.
2:08:48
SPEAKER_03: You know, people who abuse animals, whatever.
2:08:49
SPEAKER_03: I just thought animals is my thing.
2:08:51
SPEAKER_03: And so that's how I switched.
2:08:53
SPEAKER_03: And it's a long story of how I got it, got into animal nonprofit work, blah, blah, blah, blah.
2:08:57
SPEAKER_03: Ended up creating adoptapet.com, which became the world's largest nonprofit pet adoption website.
2:09:02
SPEAKER_03: I totally know.
2:09:02
SPEAKER_03: That's you.
2:09:03
SPEAKER_03: That was me.
2:09:04
SPEAKER_03: And my nonprofit created it, and we had millions of dollars of sponsorships.
2:09:08
SPEAKER_03: Purina, because what did we have?
2:09:10
SPEAKER_03: We had the eyeballs of people who were looking to adopt pets.
2:09:12
SPEAKER_03: What does Purina want?
2:09:14
SPEAKER_03: Those people, they will say, hey, here's your pet, we're gonna give you some food, we're gonna give you a leash, we're gonna give you a collar, we're gonna give you health insurance, whatever.
2:09:20
SPEAKER_03: And so it was a super successful nonprofit thing, multi-million dollar thing.
2:09:24
SPEAKER_03: But I thought, okay, we've done a lot of good stuff for dogs and cats, but then I look at what's going on at factory farms with how we're raising meat today.
2:09:32
SPEAKER_03: And we're not talking about how it used to be just have a chicken and then go slaughter the chicken, fine.
2:09:36
SPEAKER_03: Or we're not talking about going out and hunting and taking an animal that is fine.
2:09:40
SPEAKER_03: We're talking about this concentrated things where we're growing a million chickens in one barn.
2:09:46
SPEAKER_03: Like it's unbelievable what's going on.
2:09:47
SPEAKER_03: And so we sold adopthepet.com to Mars, which is Pure News competitor.
2:09:52
SPEAKER_03: They have pedigree, IMs, all that stuff.
2:09:54
SPEAKER_03: They're running it, they hired all my people, they have an incentive.
2:09:58
SPEAKER_03: We talked about align your incentives.
2:10:00
SPEAKER_03: They want people to adopt pets so they can make money.
2:10:02
SPEAKER_03: Beautiful.
2:10:03
SPEAKER_03: We got all these millions of dollars, and now we're working on farm animals.
2:10:06
SPEAKER_03: So that's my personal thing, right?
2:10:08
SPEAKER_03: So I'd be very happy to help you with any advice on the setting of the nonprofits, because we had 11,000 nonprofits posting their pets on Adopt the Pet.
2:10:15
SPEAKER_03: And that's what you'll want to do if if you want to start adopting out pets that way.
2:10:19
SPEAKER_03: There's Pet Finder was one, the for-profit one.
2:10:21
SPEAKER_03: Now Adopt the Pets also for-profit because it got bought.
2:10:24
SPEAKER_03: But and then my work, we talked about, we haven't even talked about conspiracies, and we don't have to get into it right now.
2:10:28
SPEAKER_03: But I'll tell you what, I see it as a conspiracy.
2:10:31
SPEAKER_03: When I look at how meat is portrayed right now, and about how like people, the big companies make it look like there's a little farmer and the American farmer, and there's raising the chimney.
2:10:42
SPEAKER_03: And I love the American farmer.
2:10:43
SPEAKER_03: And I got friends who are, like you said, regenerative, grazing, you know, all that kind of stuff.
2:10:47
SPEAKER_03: They are getting squeezed by these multinational corporations, like four of them, that basically they're slaves to those companies.
2:10:55
SPEAKER_03: They don't own their chickens, they don't own the animals, they don't own the genetics, they don't own the feed, but they own all the debt on their machinery and on their houses and stuff.
2:11:02
SPEAKER_03: And then those big companies, like JB, JBS, and these are international companies, some of them not even owned in the United States, make it out like, oh, you gotta give us all these subsidies and stuff, and then they buy off politicians and they'd get all these subsidies and they do all the stuff and they jack the animals up with antibiotics because they will die on factory farms if they don't have antibiotics.
2:11:22
SPEAKER_03: Big pharma is involved in that too, because they're making, they sell more money for animal antibiotics than they do for human antibiotics.
2:11:29
SPEAKER_03: So you've got this whole situation that's set up that's not natural for the animals, it's bad for the animals, it's not good for our health.
2:11:36
SPEAKER_03: Farmers, the actual farmers, the good old American farmers, they're like net negative on income.
2:11:41
SPEAKER_03: It's unbelievable what's going on with them.
2:11:42
SPEAKER_03: So I'd like to see a world where we really do rescue farmers where meat, if people are eating meat, if they hunt it, great, if you can do that, but most people can't do that because they're not living in a place where they can do that, fine.
2:11:52
SPEAKER_03: But that animals are raised humanely, not in these crazy situations where we've got to pump them full of drugs, where all these kind of lies are going on.
2:12:01
SPEAKER_03: That's my personal conspiracy thing.
2:12:02
SPEAKER_03: I'm all with that.
2:12:03
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
2:12:04
SPEAKER_05: I'm all with that.
2:12:05
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
2:12:05
SPEAKER_05: Hell yeah.
2:12:06
SPEAKER_03: Because I don't think any, you don't have to be a vegetarian or whatever.
2:12:08
SPEAKER_03: Like all the people, the whole, all the board of my organization, none of them are vegetarians.
2:12:12
SPEAKER_03: I have nothing to do with that, right?
2:12:13
SPEAKER_03: I'm not telling people they shouldn't eat meat or whatever.
2:12:15
SPEAKER_03: I happen to choose not to myself, but that's a different issue.
2:12:18
SPEAKER_03: Anybody can agree that system's fucked up.
2:12:21
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
2:12:21
SPEAKER_03: Right?
2:12:22
SPEAKER_04: No, for sure.
2:12:23
SPEAKER_03: Anyway, I'm glad to hear that you're doing the cat stuff.
2:12:26
SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah.
2:12:26
SPEAKER_03: I should go.
2:12:27
SPEAKER_03: I gotta run off to a concert.
2:12:28
SPEAKER_03: We were talking about I invited you, but you couldn't come to Santana and Doobie Brothers.
2:12:33
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I got Fedor training camp tonight.
2:12:35
SPEAKER_05: I can't miss that.
2:12:36
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
2:12:37
SPEAKER_03: Sometime we'll talk.
2:12:38
SPEAKER_03: I decided years ago that I want to see all my favorite bands before they're dead.
2:12:41
SPEAKER_03: And they're old and they're dying.
2:12:43
SPEAKER_03: And you know what?
2:12:44
SPEAKER_03: I didn't have the money when I was a kid, but I got the money now.
2:12:47
SPEAKER_03: And so I'll pay for like good seats, and I get up there, maybe it's 10th row or something, and I'll turn around and I can imagine being on the stage because you see what they see, kind of right.
2:12:55
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and it's been like the funnest thing in my whole life.
2:12:58
SPEAKER_03: If I can get that close, sometimes I can't because it's just too expensive.
2:13:01
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but I'll tell you, Elton John, I loved him because I was a piano player as a kid.
2:13:05
SPEAKER_03: I got to have my elbows on the stage.
2:13:07
SPEAKER_03: He came through San Francisco.
2:13:08
SPEAKER_03: I was like 20th row, fine, but then they let you walk up.
2:13:11
SPEAKER_03: And I I'll tell you, he was like from here across the room.
2:13:14
SPEAKER_03: It was like the most fun I've ever had.
2:13:16
SPEAKER_05: That's awesome.
2:13:17
SPEAKER_03: I think I'm a live music.
2:13:19
SPEAKER_05: It was incredible.
2:13:20
SPEAKER_05: Tiny dancer when he plays it just on piano.
2:13:22
SPEAKER_05: Oh my god.
2:13:23
SPEAKER_05: He crushes that shit.
2:13:24
SPEAKER_05: It's like effortless.
2:13:25
SPEAKER_05: He's like, it makes you want to quit music.
2:13:27
SPEAKER_03: You're like, that guy's too talented.
2:13:28
SPEAKER_03: What the fuck am I doing?
2:13:29
SPEAKER_03: Well, you made me want to, you make people want to quit jujitsu, but that's a whole other thing.
2:13:33
SPEAKER_03: All right, listen.
2:13:34
SPEAKER_03: Hey, you've been super generous with your time.
2:13:36
SPEAKER_03: Thank you very much, Dave.
2:13:37
SPEAKER_03: I love you, man.
2:13:38
SPEAKER_03: I love you too.
2:13:39
SPEAKER_03: This was awesome.
2:13:40
SPEAKER_03: And thanks, yeah, and we'll get on a mat at some point.
2:13:42
SPEAKER_03: Take care of your body.
2:13:42
SPEAKER_03: Hell yeah.
2:13:43
SPEAKER_03: Most important thing.
2:13:44
SPEAKER_03: See you guys.
2:13:44
SPEAKER_03: I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Eddie Bravo.
2:13:47
SPEAKER_03: You'll find links in the show notes to all the things we discussed, including his music, for you to check out.
2:13:52
SPEAKER_03: Thanks to my team, Robbie, Phil, Kyle, Angela, David, and to Ryan Peach Turner, my producer and chief editor, for your help.
2:14:00
SPEAKER_03: And thanks also to the show sponsors and supporters.
2:14:02
SPEAKER_03: And you can see them on our supporters page at AngelessWarrior Lab.com.
2:14:07
SPEAKER_03: If you liked hearing about the early days of BJJ in the US, you can check out my show with fellow BJJ Dirty Dozen member and the first American Machado Black Belt, Bob Bass, which is episode number 21.
2:14:20
SPEAKER_03: I'll be back next week with more lessons from the lab.
2:14:22
SPEAKER_03: And until then, keep developing your strength, your wisdom, and go out and do good in the world.