Latest / Exit Algorithms / How to Eliminate Owner Dependence Before Your Exit with Lindsay White (#86)
Transcript
- Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Welcome to Exit Algorithms, the podcast where we decode what it really takes to unlock growth, streamline operations, and prepare your business for a high value exit. I'm your host, Pete Vera, and today I'm joined by Lindsay White. She has over 20 years' experience in human resources and is the founder of High Voltage Leadership, where she now works as a people strategist, leadership coach, organization design expert. Speaker and podcast host, to name a few titles. She helps founders lead with clarity, build teams, and scale sustainably. Lindsay, I'm excited to have you here today. Welcome to the podcast. Lindsay White: Yeah, thanks Pete. I appreciate being here with you. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: business? Lindsay White: Yeah, absolutely. I often joke that my business started the day I quit my corporate job in the middle of a meeting. at the time I had spent many years working in HR, leadership development, and people strategy roles. I'd been working with everything from frontline employees to C suite executives. And I really loved working with those senior leaders to help them build strong teams and navigate. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Wow. Lindsay White: navigate people challenges and create workplaces where people could really deliver their best work. but in 2017, I found myself working for a leader who really represented everything I believe leadership should not be. and one day, sitting in another frustrating meeting with that person, I realized I just couldn't do it anymore. And I quit right in the middle of that meeting, closed my laptop, walked away and negotiated my own severance package on the way out. and what that experience really taught me was how profoundly leadership impacts people. Great leadership can really help people thrive, and poor leadership can really drive people away. So as I decided to start building my own business, I really noticed that that was very interesting. So many talented people were leaving corporate careers, particularly women, and they were building businesses. but they were trying to figure out leadership on the fly. Maybe they hadn't had great examples, just like me. they knew how to deliver their service, they had a great plot product, you know, attract clients and build build teams, but nobody had really taught them how to lead, how to create a people strategy, how to build culture. so that's really why I founded high voltage leadership. And now today I work primarily with female founders, but I I work with some really great guys too. Helping them strengthen those three areas. So their their own leadership development, people strategy, and their workplace culture. because what I've learned is that businesses really scale successfully when they aren't built by founders that do everything themselves. they're built by founders who learn how to lead through their people and and scale through really high performing teams. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: I'm curious. Lindsay White: Yeah. So I mean, and I'll reflect on my own experience. I mean, y you know, certainly someone who doesn't listen very effectively. someone who is constantly showing up late. I think that really shows a lack of respect for the people that you are working with. you know, someone that takes credit, where other people's ha you know, have had the great idea or really designed the program or the system. I I think really poor leadership is reflected in how we connect and communicate. I think, you know, that's often missing. and one of the key things I think is in poor leadership is a real lack of the ability to empathize. I think that underpins a lot of of the behavior is that if we're not acting as a great leader, we really aren't able to understand where are the people on our team at. And what did they need in order to perform at their best? Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: I think it's useful sometimes to imagine the opposite, like the worst case, you know, and then do and then do the opposite of that. Work for work backwards in a way. Lindsay White: Yeah. Hundred per cent. Yeah, absolutely. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Yeah. you work with a lot of growing companies that are, you know, scaling. I'm I'm curious where do you see businesses break down on on the on the people side as they grow and scale? Lindsay White: Yeah. particularly as organizations start to scale and the and in order to do that, they really need to not only have the team they have today perform more efficiently and more effectively, but they also need to add to that team. And one of the biggest misses, one of the things that gets left out until there's a problem is really a strategic approach to that talent. So not just adding people. To do tasks or do jobs, particularly often as leaders, that's what we're doing. I just can't do it all anymore. I just need to give, you know, we're often told to delegate. And that's awesome. But if we're not thinking strategically about who we're adding, when we're adding them, why we're adding them, and what we actually want them to generate. What is success for that role? How does it contribute from an ROI standpoint to the bottom line? That is a significant miss. Cause what happens, we just end up with a team that's sort of like plugging holes in the dike, if you will, instead of a team that's actually really enhancing the business and and ultimately what we're trying to accomplish in our in our business plan. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Yeah, makes sense. and you know, beyond just people, do you see any other mistakes founders, business owners make commonly at as they as they scale? Lindsay White: Yeah, I think one of the biggest mistakes we make as founders is that we do forget that we actually have to evolve our own leadership. Can't have a high performing team if you're not willing to be a high performing leader. And that leadership skill needs to grow as our business and our team grows. And there isn't a manual, right? And that that often is the really tricky part. So as the founder, we're often the brains of the operation. We are the ideator. We're the owner of the IP. we we built what we have. And because of that, we end up with all the organizational knowledge, we've all the history. and it's also easy for us to get in and tinker. And that's where we get into the micromanaging. And so, and it's easy because we feel really cal confident and comfortable doing the work, being involved in the delivery. But as our team grows, actually they don't need us involved. They need us to lead them and enable them. And that, that is one of the biggest sticky, messy spots as a founder when our business really starts to scale and our team starts to grow. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: I'm curious, you know, about organizational design. I'd love to drill into that a a little bit more. yeah, how do you how do you approach organizational design? Lindsay White: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And and for sure, I I mean, it's it's a very specific skill set inside of human resources or people and culture, organizational design. So I, you know, at its heart, it really is thinking about how does your organization and the people inside of it need to be structured in order for them to deliver on your business plan and those goals that you've laid out. Right. So when we think about organizational design, we often start with. What do we have today? We call that the as is, right? What does it look like inside? What's working? What's not? Who have we got on the team? What are they really skilled at? Perhaps also where do we have gaps? And then we want to analyze and think about where do we need to be? Where are we going? What is that business plan giving us in terms of direction? And what does it need to look like to get there? And then what we can do is really think about where we are today, where we want to go, what's missing in the middle? What do we need to build? What are the roles, the skills, the individuals? Who do we need? And not just from you know a skills and experience perspective, but who are they? What do they do? How are they going to show up and behave for us? Because that really starts to impact our company culture, of course. And so that's what organizational design is all about. Is literally building it from the individuals out instead of the business plan in. And I shouldn't say instead of, I should say at the same time, because the two things need to work really cohesively together. Again, in order for us to scale in a way that is sustainable, that also really focuses on the outcomes we want, the revenue we want to generate, the goals and deliverables, and really builds the organization. All in service of accomplishing that. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: are some common signs you see that a company's outgrown it its current structure? Lindsay White: Yeah, that is a fantastic question. I think, you know, some of the signs it for me in particular are that we still, first of all, we still have the founder and the CEO involved in a great deal of the del the delivery. because that becomes problematic is that's not scalable. We're only one human and we only have so many hours in a day. So that becomes problematic. I think when I see teams Where we have a number of individuals that are doing really divergent activities, right? So we have someone who's in graphic design, but also has to you know answer all the emails, who is also doing the bookkeeping. And we end up with these people that are actually doing work that requires very different skill sets, the unicorns, if you will. And unicorns are mythical, they really don't exist. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Mm. Lindsay White: And we need oftentimes to find individuals that are highly skilled at fewer things in order, again, to really scale effectively to make sure we have the right expertise. and again, often as founders, you know, we're hiring people that are potentially friends or family or people along the way. and they're awesome, they're very dedicated and focused to our mission, but they may not have the right background and expertise. and so it really makes sense to actually design the right roles. What do we need done? What makes sense in terms of those outcomes? What do we need in terms of skills and experience? Then let's match the people up to those things, right? So we build from the role out instead of the human back in. And that's one of the trickiest pieces. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Mm. Yeah. I love that approach. Starting with the with what needs to be done first. we talk a lot on this show about owner dependence. It's you know one of the key drivers in business valuation if if they decide to sell at a at some point. I'm curious your perspective, you know, mentioned it a little bit, but what separates a a team that runs smoothly from one that constantly needs the the owner to to step in? Lindsay White: Yes. Yeah, a hundred percent. And and this is absolutely critical when you're thinking about that exit point. because if all of the knowledge and all of the information and all of the experience really is grounded back into the founder, that becomes very difficult to evaluate, very difficult to sell. so it it it certainly is, I think, an a really key topic, Pete, to be thinking about. what makes a team work very smoothly is when we do have the right structures and the right systems. So I get to I understand as an individual what's my lane? What am I accountable for? What do I own? Where do I get to make decisions? And also what does success look like? And we often forget to define what is success in this role. Then we can also think about what are the communication channels? Who needs to know what when? And as the founder, I need to be able to understand what's happening in my business. I don't. have to be accountable to do it all. And if I am, I'm actually becoming the bottleneck. I am hampering people from actually doing the great work I've hired them and am paying them to do. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: what have you seen successful strategies to eliminate the the owner as a bottleneck? Lindsay White: Yeah, so I I do I I work fractionally with a number of different organizations across you know, di different professions, right? the one organization I've been working with now for for a little while, the f the founder, the co founder, is all is the CEO. And a lot of the IP that is driving the business is their IP, right? They are really are the brains of the operation and they are a regarded expert, which is awesome. But if they and they do have an exit in mind at some point in the not too distant future. Well, the truth is we actually need to be able to build back some of that expertise into the business. And we've started to do that, right? We've done some organizational design. We've done some very strategic recruitment and we've designed those roles we're recruiting for that, you know, are really people with that foundational expertise that can be mentored. By the founder and CEO, and their growth is aligned with when we sort of foresee there might be an exit. Because then the expertise, the organizational knowledge, the information is built back into the team and the business as a whole with some individuals that have that very specific piece of expertise that can really long have long-lasting careers in the organization. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: the business will is assured to continue to run as it has been once the owner leaves. Is there anything that you know you've seen works well to to train those those people? do you have the owner create like SOPs or or what is kind of your process around that? Lindsay White: Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah. It sort of depends on the role and what we need them to be able to in you know bring back in terms of their expertise and also who we've hired. So sometimes it's as simple as mentorship. It's someone that's going to work really closely with the founder and CEO in that space. You know, not not be their shadow necessarily, but they already have some of that skill set and the founder can just really help them elevate. In other spaces, yes, SOPs can be critical. That's a lot more task-oriented, right? Do this, then do that, then do this. Those things can be very valuable. And I often recommend, you know, video libraries. having an explainer, being at big, you know, we use a lot of platforms and technology. The videos make it very helpful because not only can I hear what you're saying, I can follow your mouse around the screen. I think sometimes it can be more than one individual. So perhaps as organizations grow. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Hm. Lindsay White: We need to branch into different departments. We didn't, you know, we need per potentially different verticals. and so it may be actually creating, you know, some channels in our organization and different leaders that actually have accountability for different parts of the business. That again, then we can meet collectively as a leadership team. That's such a great way to bring not only bring people together to share their wisdom, but also bring the wisdom to the group. Right? So that we're expanding everyone's knowledge, not just one person. So sort of depends on the circumstance and where the organization and even the founder are at. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: you mentioned technology. I'm curious now a AI, everybody's talking about it. I always like to ask guests, you know, how how are you seeing it being deployed most effectively and and changing your your specific industry? Lindsay White: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, certainly from a leadership development, people and culture perspective, AI is starting to change the landscape. So everything from recruitment, right? Lots of people are using an LLM with their resume, their cover letter, helping them on you know, understand what jobs are available, which ones they should apply for and not. I still think that, you know, despite the fact that we're using AI in that space. we we need to have the human element. So we still need to do a really great job in our recruitment system, making sure that we are connecting in the right way, that we're really leveraging those great interview questions to get underneath what's in the resume, really understand the human element. those things I think are absolutely critical. but certainly I have organizations, some are really leaning into it, they're really excited about it, they use it every day. Other organizations are. You know, less enthusiastic. They're very concerned about their data and IP being brought into an LLM platform and potentially being compromised. So as a consultant, I'm always very sensitive about what is the organization's philosophy? And if they don't have one that I really help them engage in that conversation, how are we? What does AI mean here? When is it appropriate that we leverage an LLM platform and what platform are we choosing? And then on the other side, when is it important that this absolutely has to be generated by an a human? And where do the two pieces connect in the middle? Where can we leverage AI to speed us up? I use it every day. I got one working right now on something that's very manual. But where does the human element come in to make sure that we really know what we're producing? Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Mm. Lindsay White: Why we're producing it and is it what we actually want? Are we getting what we ask for? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I use chat and Claude. and I'm just getting into Claude. I'll I'll be perfectly honest. I I'm I'm far more functional in chat at this point, but I know that Claude has a lot to offer. but I use it all the time. So I use it for everything from supporting my content t in terms of social media. So I can talk to chat. I can tell it a great story and it can really help me format that. And then I can actually edit and audit what I what you know what it's created. I can go back to it and say, yeah, chat, that doesn't sound like me. Do better, right? Like I'm pretty hard on it, quite frankly. So I use it for those kinds of things. I I use it a lot to help me when I've had conversations and I use it to help me take notes. I can stay really present with my clients. And then I can use an LLM platform to help me not only take the notes, but also what are some follow-up questions? What are the actions we need to take? What are the pieces that we need to design? What did we talk about in terms of an outline for that? Okay, now I can take that and fill in that framework. so it really speeds up my process and also allows me to stay really present in the conversation. I'm not constantly taking down handwritten notes. That really can be disruptive, and I'm bound to miss something along the way. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: you talk to it. I think that's really important. and being strict on it, right? And like giving it as much context as possible. Lindsay White: Yes. Yeah. I think talking to it is one of the keys. I mean, I hear people all the time, just had a conversation last week. well, you know, chat doesn't sound like me. Well, because you don't talk to it. If you talk to it, it really does start to listen and learn how do you talk? What is your cadence? What's the language you use? What's the syntax? Right. And that's what I find really valuable is now when I talk to it, it's giving me back something that to some degree sounds like me. Not all the time. Like you said, gotta be a little hard on it, got to push back. Nope, that's not right. I don't like that. Try again, try this. I want to start with that. but I do really appreciate that. and it really helps me with some tasks that otherwise would be pretty onerous for me. and and I appreciate it, you know, being able to pick up that slack. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Mm-hmm. if you could pick one practical tip for founders or business owners wanting to build a team that scales without depending on them, what would it be? Lindsay White: Yeah, that is the $64,000 question, as they say, right? So I think the biggest tip I can offer is as the founder and the CEO of your business is to listen more and talk less. Your team has incredible data. They're the ones that work with your customer. They work with your product. They understand your service, right? They even understand the inner workings of your business sometimes better than you do. So I think the ability as leaders to ask really great open-ended probing questions and then use your ears and your mouth in the proportion they exist on your face. You don't have to be the person that's always talking, and you definitely don't have to be the loudest. but if you ask great questions and you listen, your team will give you great information and that will actually help you accelerate growth in your business. It'll also help you understand where do you potentially need to build in more team. Where do they need help? Where are there pieces that are missing in their skill set? They will help you understand and you'll be able to do it better and faster. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: where can they find find you and learn more? Lindsay White: Yeah. So you can always find me on my website. That's highvoltage leadership.ca. I also spend a lot of time on LinkedIn and I love new connections. So come and connect with me. My name is Lindsay White. and and I always try and post some really great content about conversations just like we've had today, Pete. And if you're on Instagram, my handle there is at high voltleership. Pete Vera, Exit Algorithms: Thanks for coming on today, Lindsay. I love this conversation. It's good having you. Lindsay White: Thanks so much, Pete.