Latest / AccessCo Leaders Career Conversations / Building Your Network
Transcript
- speaker-0: All right, welcome everyone. One of the biggest myths students believe is that careers are built through applications. Write resume letters, LinkedIn matters, and experience matters. But most opportunities actually begin with people, a conversation, a mentor, and an introduction. Someone who believes in you. Today's conversation is all about how relationships shape careers and how students can begin building meaningful professional professional connections long before they need a job. All right, so we have two guests today. We have Keith Stahler and Michelle Outlaw. They're both executive levels in their industry. So let's start off with Keith. Keith, can you tell us what you do today? What kinds of people do you work with? And what are the relationships that changed your career? speaker-2: Absolutely. very happy to be here. My name is Keith Stahler. I work for a company called the Clemens Food Group. So we are in food manufacturing. I lead our transportation division. And prior to that, I spent about 12 years in HR. So a lot of my role was about stewarding relationships across the business in ensuring that you know they they lead to productivity on the other side. and actually I am in transportation because of the relationships I built across the organization. So over a fifteen year time frame, I supported that business from afar and it wound up leading to an opportunity for me to go over and lead it. and so that's where I'm at today, which is really exciting. speaker-0: Yeah, I love that. We've known each other for a few years and I've seen you promote through within the company. And I'm like, transportation, where did that come from? But looking back, it really is probably from these conversations, which we'll find out in the session here. Now let's let's learn a little bit more about Michelle. Michelle, we've also known each other for a few years, and I know you've been an exec in the hospitality space. same thing. Can you tell us what you're doing today? What kinds of people do you work with? And how have relationships changed your career? Sure. speaker-3: I have had the privilege of leading many teams in the hospitality realm. I've been VP of Sales and Operations as well as COO for boutique off-prem catering companies here in the Washington, DC area. I have led food programs for Collegiate Hospitality with Aramark, as well as food programs for Google Palantir and Nike Distribution Centers. So my career has kind of taken a span across many levels, and it is all about relationships. And I am where I am. Because my first interview at Walt Disney World, my would-be boss, he took a chance on me. It was a panel interview. I probably tanked it and he's like, you know what, I'll take a chance on her. She's got grit. I can work with that. and so that's something that I have always kept in the back of my mind for my entire career and always tried to pay homage to that and pay it forward. speaker-0: I love that. I was just gonna bring up you were just this little girl coming out of Florida and now look at these little names that you've dropped for the companies you've worked for. That's so impressive, Michelle. I kinda wanna know, Michelle, you brought it up that I remember you started working at Disney when you were young. Did you even know what networking was? Let's take a look back in your, you know, younger Michelle. speaker-3: I came to work, I put on a costume, I started as a balloon girl on Main Street, grabbed my rack of balloons, went out and just started selling balloons to tourists. but then, you know, understanding that I loved hospitality, wanted to to pursue a career in hospitality. And then I started talking about with other people that I wanted to work in the Hollywood Brown Derby. And so recruiting said, well, that's the best of the best. And I said, well, of course. That's why I I'm interviewing. and it it was through two people that I had known, one through Main Street North Foods. And they said, you know what? I I think that she'll be a great fit to transition over to the food and beverage realm. And that's where I started with my hospitality food and beverage at the Hollywood Brown Derby. speaker-0: Amazing. And for those of you of our listeners who are not familiar with Disney's Hollywood Studios, the Brown Derby is one of those exclusive restaurants where they apparently make really great steaks. I still have to check those out. what about you? And speaking of steak now, Keith Stahler. Keith, you are you've been with Clemens Food Group now 15 years. That's most of your your professional career. Tell us a little bit about did you even know what networking was when you started your career? speaker-2: It's a great question. I I would say I am very much a connector. like that's kind of part of my makeup and my profile is if you guys have done the disk assessment, I'm a high eye, right? So I like to interact, I like to build relationships. I actually started here 15 years ago because one of my college roommates actually at the time was working here and kind speaker-1: And speaker-2: of said, Hey, you got you gotta come talk to us. I didn't know much about the company back then. We were much smaller back then. And so you could say, I came here through a network connection. That individual happens to be our president today. so his career has grown pretty significantly. and I've had the opportunity to work through different areas of the business as well. And so if I look back, I would say networking got me in here. networking at the time got me from sales into HR, which I was not necessarily thinking about doing. I spent about 12 years there. And networking and building relationships and making those connections actually has kind of moved me out of HR into transportation. So might not have known exactly what it meant and what I was doing, maybe not even doing it intentionally. But if I look back, I would say it certainly has been kind of the basis for where I've gotten to. speaker-0: love this. I've you know I've been on different conversations with Keith and I had not heard this new piece because you guys just had the new president come in in December or I think December or January. So speaker-2: Chris has been here for two years longer than I have. We graduated college together. He came right here, speaker-1: here. speaker-2: you know, worked his way up through the organization, was a senior leader, and just most recently was appointed president a few months ago. So is leading the entire food group now for us. speaker-0: Tell us about that conversation when he called you to say, Hey, I work for this this company and I'd love for you to join us. What did that what would what did that look like? Was it on the golf course? Was it just a text? speaker-2: My honest answer, I what I knew about hat they they were Hatfield quality meats back then. And what I knew about Hatfield quality meets was they made the hot dogs at the Phillies stadium, right? So it was kind of like hot dog manufacturing, like how interesting and difficult and intricate could it really be? So I had kind of a like I don't know. I don't know if that's the right move for me feeling initially, but He spoke so passionately about it and kind of described the growth at the time that they were going through and what they were getting ready to experience and the people that he was working with. And again, that people connection, like that kind of drew me in. So you know, we were able to set up kind of more of an exploratory style interview where I got a chance to come in and meet a lot of the team. And I I gotta tell you, like, even back like I was wowed. And so it was it was a no brainer for me to make. speaker-0: I'm still wowed by everyone we get to chat with from Clemens. There is some kind of culture, as people say now, the vibe. So I can't even imagine 15 years ago, a smaller company, you get that personal invite. Now, same with you, Michelle. You've popped around from different big name companies. What was relationships like for you to get into the door or get get have those find those opportunities? speaker-3: well, unlike Keith, I am a high D and I have very little I on the So I am all about getting it done. and I think that that just that work ethic and the ability to take on large projects and challenging projects is kind of what put me in the forefront of my relationships. and the perfect example is after restaurant associates at Google Data Centers, the I don't remember her title. It was way up there. Kay Martin went over to ISS Guggenheimer. She's like, hey, I'm bringing you with me. I know that you love a challenge. We have a major challenge in Memphis with the Nike distribution centers. I'm gonna drop you in the middle of Memphis and here you go. so you know I think it's just coming at it from a a bit of a different angle. And then the relationships that I have built because either I've reached out because I do tend to take on challenging projects and like, hey, I know that you know X, Y, and Z, or can you point me in a direction? And so that's just kind of helped built my repertoire of people because honestly speaking, networking as an introvert and as a D is not something that comes very naturally to me. So it's something that I approach relationships a little bit differently. and they're built on a more of probably a an operational foundation than just going and just sitting and having cups of coffee and being like, hey, let me pick your brain. speaker-0: Right, right. And so for our listeners, I Michelle's brought it up a couple of times, saying that she's a D, she's a high D. so that's referencing the disk assessment and that's dominant. So we'll have to we'll do another show or discussion about that. But thank you, Michelle, for bringing that up. Now, both of you guys had talked about the relationships you've had, haven't really talked about the mentoring. Keith, I'm more familiar with some of the mentors you've had within the company. Can you talk speak a little bit about how that mentoring with the previous CEO came about? And what it did for you. And then I'd love to hear from Michelle how any of your mentors along the way have grown your career. speaker-2: Yeah, absolutely. happy to do it. I know you've worked closely in the past with Craig Etzel. Craig was our CEO. he retired around the same time that was the transition with Chris coming into president. so a few months ago, Craig retired. but during his tenure here, I spent a a a ton of time with Craig, just really picking his brain, understanding how he was driving value in the organization, how he was going after problems. speaker-1: problems. speaker-2: It was really interesting to watch his career grow and then sort of wind down as he was getting ready to retire because he came so much more focused on people and succession planning and further development of individuals. And for me, that's where I got to spend a lot of time with him on the HR side, building some of these programs, helping our leaders across the organization understand how to dig into problems, how to solve problems, how to build and invest in relationships. speaker-1: . speaker-2: You know, that kind of came to the forefront for him as well. I would say I've had quite a few mentors over my career, and they've all helped me tremendously. And typically it's I've got something specific at the time that I am trying to work through. And so I will usually lean on somebody that is very good at that, whatever that thing is at the time. And as an organization, we are just we're very open to that. Right. We're very flat as an organization. We're very collaborative, cross-functional, where you can actually go and sit down with the CEO and ask questions and just take time from him to just develop your career. That is really important to us as leaders here at the Clemens Food Group. So I am very thankful to him. I'm very thankful to all of my mentors. I would encourage anyone to get a I've been on the side where I'm I've been able now to mentor others. and I could tell you it fills my tank as well. Yeah. So like it it really does help the mentors as much as it helps the mentees. So don't be afraid to ask. speaker-0: Love it. Don't be afraid to ask. You know what, Michelle, I'm gonna shift it a little bit. I know that you've had mentors along the way. How do you find a mentor? Like as a somebody starting their career who might not already have somebody formally, you know, by title, you're my mentor. What how do you find somebody like that? And how do you even ask? Like, can you have this conversation with me? speaker-3: I will say that throughout my career, even though I don't love it, I've been to a lot of networking sessions. and you just I I usually just take kind of a pulse of the room. And I find somebody who's very passionate, typically about hospitality or a food program or the company that they work for, because that's that's an innate, authentic passion. They're not faking it, they're not selling you anything. And that's the person I usually will reach out and say, hey. saw you at this conference or saw you this, you know, this is what really resonated with me, would love to get on your calendar and spend 15, 20 minutes to understand where or how you got to where you are and any tidbits that you have for me along the way. And so, you know, it's it's kind of finding that common ground that you resonated with, whether it's a like I said, a speech or or a conference. and to Keith's point, don't be afraid to ask because somebody who's passionate about what they do and I think authentic leaders love to mentor. They love to pass on their knowledge. They're not gatekeeping. They're not holding it into to themselves. You know, my father's always taught to pay it forward in that, you know, your legacy is not necessarily what you lead, but the people that you bring along with you. speaker-0: That's so good. And I love that you brought up that word legacy because I feel like that's what Keith was describing that the previous CEO was building, right? That legacy. you know, just because we're camping out here in the mentoring part a little bit, Keith, can you share with us what's one piece of advice from Keith or from Keith from Craig Etsel or one of your mentors that still stays with you today? speaker-2: Craig always used to say, well, there's a couple of things that come to mind, but the one that jumps out to me most is he would say, Planning is priceless, plans are useless. And it was it was always this like it like rattles around in your brain, right? Like the process of planning and thinking through things and making sure you have your ducks in a row and understanding where in the organization, no matter what area of the business you're in, the value is. That is priceless. The plan itself will change. Yeah. Right. Like just be ready for it to change. It's that that piece of paper that you just spit out is useless. But the exercise to go through and then to go back through and then to go back through again is incredibly critical. that that's like the w there's been a ton, don't get me wrong, that he has taught me, but that's one that always just really resonated. speaker-0: the first one that came up. And so for those that are just listening and don't get to see the rest of us, our producer Vanessa, Michelle and I, we have these big smiles because I know we're the strategic thinkers and we're like, we're already making the plans, we're lining up our ducks. But we also know that we have to release and know, you know, be flexible. what about you, Michelle? I know that you know you've had a few people speak in to your career. What's one piece of one piece of advice or something from your mentor that you hold on to today? speaker-3: not something nearly as profound. but he because I I exercise out of excellence, you know. I just everything that I do and I expect my teams to do is with a sense of passion and excellence. And he would say to me, Michelle, we just make food. Like we're not curing cancer. We you know, and keep that into perspective and and don't take the fun out of it, you know. speaker-0: Mm, that's good. speaker-3: You're stressed so much about making sure that it's perfect, no one is having fun. And that's part of hospitality is just enjoying the experience. speaker-0: I think that's the highlight. Michelle, we're just making food. I I adopt that as well. Like we're not dropping bombs here, guys. Like we're just, you know, making sure that the schedule lands. So but I can definitely relate to that. I love that, Michelle. and I love that you shared how authentic your your mentor was for you. So let's shift a little bit to networking without feeling fake. The word networking makes a lot of students feel uncomfortable. Like how would you how would you redefine it? Like networking. Let's start with you, Michelle. speaker-3: like I said, when I have to network, I I've built a couple things in my arsenal. I usually take someone with me recently, my VP of business development. He, you know, he's British. He's just charming. He just knows how to work a room. And so working a room with him. And that buddy system just makes it easier. and then so you know, as he's introducing the topic or or talking about something, I can easily interject and then it just creates more of a conversation. and then again, going back to the go to events where you know that you have a passion for whatever. is being discussed because it just makes conversations easier. And if you're passionate about it, you're gonna take nuggets from that that conversation or those speakers. And that just automatically leads to some conversations. speaker-0: That's good. That's so good. What about you, Keith? speaker-2: Yeah, I I love that last point that you made about like going to the events that you're actually passionate about. I I think that's critical. You know, networking by itself without it really leading anywhere is kind of almost by definition disingenuine, you know, like it's just the hey, you're just kinda build you're talking for the sake of talking. But I I can't get this out of my head as we're sitting here thinking, like, and I know this will sound overly simplified, but you really do just have to be your genuine self. Like to me, that is the key to networking is be your genuine self, be curious. I think that's a big part of it too, right? If you're at an event, even especially if it's an event of something you're passionate about, ask questions, talk to people, get to know people. I I can tell you, like it really does open doors and lead to whether it's new opportunities or new customers or new vendors or you know, depending on what industry you're in, it it could lead to new suppliers. Like there's just There's so much that can come out of being genuine and asking the right question. speaker-0: That's so good. So Keith, you and I are very similarly wired. We're like, we'll just go in there and start asking the questions. And, you know, I like to pretend I'm like, I'm so shy, guys, but you know, I'm not basically the opposite of shy. What would you say to somebody like a a student or somebody starting their career that they're like, maybe it's more like Michelle, like I'm a little bit of an introvert. What's some practical tips or advice to get them to just go to the events and And do the things that you're saying, Keith. Like ask the questions, be curious. Like, but what if they're too shy to even start there? Like, I'll let both of you kind of jump in. speaker-2: I love the the buddy system approach, right? Like, hey, we I am going to first of all I'm gonna I'm gonna identify somebody that maybe is a peer of mine or somebody that I work with that I know is very outgoing and is very good at this. Ask speaker-1: I'm going to. speaker-2: them some questions, maybe get some advice from them. But also I'm gonna ask them maybe to join me at this event. help me work the room, help me get connected to the right people. I actually think that It'll teach you then kind of how to navigate and how to have the right conversations. even for I like I'll tell you, like I'm yes, by nature I'm an I'm an extrovert. I do enjoy interacting with people. It's not always easy for me either. Like it's hard to yeah, like kind of connect with the right person, just start a conversation from scratch if you're not talking to them. If there's a bunch of people in a room, sometimes the setup is a little awkward. So it it's not easy for us either. Right. So maybe go into it knowing that everybody has that little butterfly feeling in their stomach a little bit. It's not like, well, hey, just cause Keith and Ilyne are are talkers, they're fine at this. No, there's there's a little bit of that for us too. So hopefully that that eases it maybe a little bit that are more intraver. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: Yes. Hashtag same Keith. Thank you for articulating that so well. Y'all saw me in the green room. and I know you guys. So what about you, Michelle? Share share your perspective on, you know, walking into walking into an event and not having all that energy to to connect. speaker-3: I I will go back to the buddy system as well, but a great resource that I have is Vanessa Van Edwards. so she has a book called Captivate and it kind of lays out this. She's she says I'm a recovering. Awkward person. And she just gives you some tools of how to work a room. Typically, if you go to a conference, they're going to have registration, then you're going to have a food table, then you're going to have a bar table, and then you're going to have the restroom. And it just lays out a game plan of how to work through the room. And social cues of if you have a group of people that are like tight-knit and their heads are together, that's not where you're going to want to go and say, Hey guys, how are you? so it just gives social cues as to kind of how to approach and how to work a room. And I found that that that's very Very, very helpful as well as she's got a lot of good one-liners about you know what do you do, and just not walking up and saying, Hi, I'm Michelle, but you know, hey, what brought you here and then where are you from and what is the greatest thing that you have about Florida growing up? And so just you know, kind of taking it out of that that robotic. We're here, we're here for a specific reason. But again, going back to the element of making it fun. And I think when you're relaxed and make it fun, you're more open to learn things that you didn't necessarily go in trying to learn, if that makes sense. speaker-0: love that practical resource. Remind us of the author and the name of the book. speaker-3: Vanessa Van Edwards and it's called Captivate. speaker-0: Love that. And so also, you know, as you talk about, both of you guys brought up the buddy system. That's actually my instinct as well. Like, hey, I'm going to this thing. Will you come with me? and for someone like Keith and I were like, we're going, you should come with us. Like that's kind of that's how I feel. Like, who can I bring up with me? You know, talking about the legacy, talking about some of the people that we're mentoring, but it also makes it more fun. That said, what's what do you guys think is more important? Having hundreds of connections? We're just a handful of meaningful relationships. Let's let's think about more of the perspective of your of building your career. speaker-2: I smiled a little bit when you asked that because I as an extrovert and somebody who likes to meet a lot of people, it is way more impactful to have a handful of the right connections and people that you can go a little bit deeper with, right? And really understand and really can partner with because you know, those are the folks that hey, if you need something very specific, you can go to them and they can make the connection to the right person. That was a learned thing for me, I think, over my career, right? Like the the it's about having the right people and genuine relationships as opposed to, well, gosh, I met this person five years ago here and I'm just gonna cold reach out to them without any real background other than, hey, we sat at a table once. Typically that's a harder sell, and that's that's harder to get in with that person than the genuine, really tight knit relationships that you have. speaker-0: That's so good. What about you, Michelle? speaker-3: Completely agree. you know, my I've been fortunate that my career has had accounts from east to west coast and and I keep my network pretty small, but and you would think hospitality, especially working for Disney, is just a very s large field. And while it is, there are so many people that during my career and interviewing, they're like, hey, I know you from, or you know so and so. And so it all intertwines. And so kind of like Keith said, really pouring in and making meaningful relationships will automatically spill over into other conversations and other relationships. And you I'm still surprised when people are like, you know so and so or you used to work with so and so in New York or Palo Alto or or wherever. And so I think it just naturally expands your network. speaker-0: Yes. Michelle, always feel so fancy around you. You've got like the big cities and the big names. I love it. Makes me feel even more connected. And speaking of that, sometimes, you know, as we talk about like the number of relationships or connections you have, right? Like on LinkedIn, right? Like, you know, one of those milestones on LinkedIn is like, you have 500 plus connections. I'm not even there. And sometimes I kind of creep over, like, I don't know if I want 500 connections because I personally can't steward or I can't manage those those relationships where you also know that people have thousands because they're like, yes, let's connect, let's connect. And there are ways to look at that and you know, pros and cons in both ways. let's let's camp out here a little bit with LinkedIn. When do you guys think a young professional or a student should start using LinkedIn? speaker-3: Yeah, I don't think there's too early of a time. and I will say this from an introvert and have it, I think I have over a thousand connections. because it's, you know, you can kind of do a deep dive and see who knows who knows who. And then that may put you kind of on a path or in a relationship. And so I I'm a big fan of LinkedIn and not from building strong intimate relationships, but that broad networking of, you know, we used to work together here and now they're over here. Is there, you know, is that path or that connection helpful for my current position? speaker-0: Right, right. It's basically it's a tool. And I think, you know, not that I'm the introvert, but like using that as an opportunity to just reach out and say, hey, you know, we happen to know the same person or we worked at the same or we went to the same school. that said, Keith, can you share a little bit, you know, in your time as a director of HR and, you know, trying to help grow the company, what stands out to you in a LinkedIn profile? speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-2: great question. And I would agree too, by the way. I think the earlier the better, right? Like create a LinkedIn profile, make some connections. it it is a a lot of companies like I mean most companies, we're recruiting on LinkedIn, right? Like that's where we go to do proactive outreach. and so like you know, when I think about a LinkedIn profile, it's it's sort of like a resume a little bit, right? So like You know, job history is important, titles important, making sure you're staying at your you know, like you're not job hopping is the term, right? All those things are important, right? It's it's a active resume on a social speaker-1: work. speaker-2: But then you know, the the things that you're doing in the business world, it's always good to share, right? Like when people are active, that's when they get to the top of your feed. So commenting speaker-1: comment speaker-2: on things, liking things, sharing job updates, sharing a conference that you went to, a connection that you made, those things go a long way because the way the algorithm works, like they they do start to get to the top of the connections, even to like your second and third connection. You know, making connections in your industry, I think, is pretty critical too. You know, it's it's back to the what Michelle said earlier about like being around the like minded people and having passion for the same thing. you will find that you'll get posts and updates and information about those things that you're passionate about. so that really is critical. speaker-0: So good, Keith. What a setup as far as letting our young people, our students know what kinds of engagement you should have on LinkedIn, what what what you should post, or do you need to post, or you just continue to engage with the companies that you like to follow or the professionals that you are looking up to? What about you, Michelle? Have you have you know how engaged are you on LinkedIn or how much do you use it? speaker-3: I use it a lot when recruiting. and I like to go under their their job history. And for those that I can tell are just passionate about the roles that they've been in, there there's quite a few sentences about and it shows what they enjoyed about that role. And so those always when I'm interviewing will stand out to the top to me because They learned something or they took something from that role, other than I was just, you know, director of sales for such and such a company. so it gives a little insight into like I said, what they enjoyed about the role and I think what they're gonna bring to the next role. I'm on it probably twice a day, once in the morning and probably in the afternoon after that three o'clock coffee slump. but just kind of going through and kind of like Keith said, it's it's a great tool to see. what like-minded people are doing. I've had a lot of companies reach out for tools like, hey, I see that you're, you know, COO of a catering company. Have you thought about, you know, this is how that we can help say your transportation schedule or your driver schedule or your purchasing software, et cetera. And so it's just, it is a great tool to see everything that's out there, although it can get very overwhelming. speaker-0: It does. I think any social media does. well that said, with the with LinkedIn, and it's just again another tool you can ask help. Let's shift a little bit to many students try, you know, they they're a little hesitant to ask for help, especially as they're like launching their career or starting to do some interviews. Well, why do you think that is? Do you can you guys think back to when you were starting your careers and were you hesitant to ask for help or do you see that now in the in the the younger people that you're working with? speaker-2: I think it can be intimidating, right? Like it's titles intimidate people, right? Like hey, am I really gonna walk into the CEO's office and ask for help on this or ask for time? And it's like that, I think it just that's like human nature a little bit, right? What I have learned over my career is, and I'll just use Craig as the example, Craig's just a guy. Right. Like, yes, that is his title, but he is there to help. And he is willing to help. And he is willing to knock down barriers for you and help guide you on your on your you know, kind of quest of whatever it is you're doing at that time. And so like I I would say, yes, it can be intimidating. Try to put that aside as best you can. Right. Like I think a lot of times, even folks that are tenured in their career, like fear is a real thing that stops people from progress. speaker-0: yeah. speaker-1: That kind of speaker-2: all levels of the organization. And so try your best to have the courage to ask. I think you'll be surprised at the response that you get. I speaker-1: Michelle. speaker-2: mentioned it earlier, but like people that are passionate about what they do and passionate about leadership, they want to share. They're eager. They want you to come ask, right? Like they're they're ready to impart their wisdom on you. So I think you will mostly get a receptive response. speaker-0: Keith and Michelle, if you feel like we're starting to get to the level where we're those people. Like we want to give you our information. We're not a hundred years old yet, but we are, you know, those people. Michelle, what about you? Why why do you think it's, you know, hard for some people starting off on their careers to ask for help? speaker-3: Nobody wants to come across like they don't know, you know, especially if it's a part of your role. You're like, okay, I I'm supposed to know this because I'm in this position. but I will say when I was, you know, young and dumb right out of Florida and came to DC and started with with my off-prem catering company, my boss was kind of on the brink of retirement. You know, he'd worked for Marriott, he had worked for Compass, and he was just a wealth of information. And so I said, Hey, can I take Friday morning, 8:30 to 9, every Friday, we have coffee, we walk away from the office, I come with my list, and then I can just pick your brain. And he's still my mentor today, 20-ish years later. and I still pick his brain. And in like we talked about earlier, those that love leadership and want truly leadership is investing in other people and wanting to see them succeed. and then, you know, in my current role, my first week, I sat down with every single salary leader in the building and I was like, okay, what works well, what doesn't work well, how can I help you? so that they knew that my door was open because they had not had kind of an executive in the in the building. They had a remote to just kind of break down the barrier. So I think it's twofold is is not to be afraid to ask, even though it is intimidating. And then as a leader opening the door and saying, hey, I am here, use me as a resource. speaker-0: That's so good. Now, Michelle, you definitely just describe yourself to a T being a high dominant D, the go getter and making it happen. What what do you think is the right way? I mean, that is the right way that worked for you. Are there other ways to ask someone for advice? You know, when they're feeling a little hesitant. speaker-3: I, you know, finding someone in the office that you're comfortable with. They may be in your department, they may not. and just say, hey, can I run something by you? Or I'm thinking of, or has this ever come up before? And just asking those very open-ended questions with somebody that you trust. and I think that will help build the confidence that, you know, if you need to start going to senior leadership or start asking for those mentorships on a weekly or a monthly basis, that just kind of gives you the confidence and breaks down those barriers. speaker-0: So good. All right, Keith. You know I'm coming for you. You started 15 years ago growing through the company. So tell us the right way that you've seen and maybe some wrong ways that you've seen to say, hey, I need help. speaker-2: Yeah, yeah, love the question. And I'm I'm just sitting here thinking like how all interconnected this is, right? Because I would say, like for me personally, and and I think it's it's true for a lot of folks, is you have to build the relationships first, right? So it's like back to the earlier, like invest in relationships, steward those relationships, build relationships so that when you do go to ask for help, it's not, hey, the first time I came to talk to you, it's because I don't know what I'm doing and I'm asking for help. It's like I've got an established relationship with you. And that is why I'm leaning on you to ask for help on this problem. The other I and I was thinking as we were talking about being willing to ask for help. I can count, like I there's names kind of rattling through my head of folks that are not here anymore and you know failed for whatever reason. And if they would have asked for help at the time, they would still be here. And they'd probably be in a higher level position, right? It's like you don't you don't have to solve every single problem yourself. In fact, you can. So you're going to be leaning on others and you have to be willing to ask for help when something's not going right. So it's just like a a final like, yes, you you gotta be willing to do that because it can sink you and it can feel overwhelming. speaker-0: Golly. Professor Stahler. speaker-2: I th I just think people typically want to help. And I think the the nature for us a lot of times is we don't think they do and we think we're burdening them and and it's often the opposite. and so just yeah, I think if you have that in the back of your head, it makes it a lot easier then to go into those conversations. speaker-0: So good. That's you're like professor with a master class in networking. I love it. Love it. So you're talking about building relationships. What's one habit students can start today or start early in their career that will help them build relationships over time? speaker-2: I I think I mean we've talked about LinkedIn and there's a variety of tools and we talked about kind of the networking, but I I think like understanding it's it's first like self-realization. Is that the term? like what are you passionate about? understanding that about yourself, and then maybe doing a little bit of research on like, hey, are there are there groups for that? Are there you know, connections on LinkedIn for that? Are there networking in my general area on that or other people that I'm close with in my group already passionate about that. And I think once you realize that, then it makes it a lot easier to find those like minded people. and then because you already have that connection or shared passion, it makes building those relationships a lot easier. Don't be cold with like none of the same passions or interests or like it is really hard to build a relationship. So I I would just Not impossible, but I probably wouldn't start. speaker-0: Right, right. What about you, Michelle? Do you have any practical tips on how to stay connected with people professionally? And then because I also know you personally, like both professionally and personally, and there's that gray area. Can you speak a little bit on that? speaker-3: I mean, Keith put it in a bow, great. I don't know that I can expand on that. but you know, I've made it a point probably in the last 10 years with even people that I've made a relationship with that could be in in competing companies with mine of just meeting like once a quarter with them to pick their brain because You're going through a lot of similar challenges, especially in the last six years coming out of COVID and hospitality and food chain supply issues and all the things and being able to hire the the right talented help and keeping your the great talent that you have from kind of moving on. And so it's again, you're always gonna find somebody that that you connect with and you're like, hey, we're like minded or we have the same outlook on something. And just pick their brain because that's taught me so much about one, I'm not alone. two leads to the conversation of well, how did you handle that or how did you overcome that? And that they can be a wealth of information to help you with whatever current challenges that you have. and you know, and also it it has led, I think personally, to many other relationships. I mean, Ebony is is our great anchor, and she is fantastic of you like this or you like that, let me put you together. and so having somebody like that in your network as well, like I I've pulled on her many, many times over the last 10, 12 years about, hey, I need to know somebody in this sphere or this realm. And she's like, I got the perfect person. Here's the number, here's their email, et cetera. And it just makes it easier because you can start that conversation with, hey, Ebony gave me your contact information. speaker-0: I mean, Michelle, I'm smiling because I'm thinking about our mutual friend. and and really that's kind of like the foundation of how we built AccessCo Leaders, right? Like it it we had to tap into the people in the networks that we've known because we are so passionate about allowing or giving students the access, you know, creating those opportunities and connecting them with with elevating the students and creating those opportunities to connect with leaders. So thank you for that reminder, Michelle. and it's that small. You know, like shifting it to that small world effect. You know, I I said it earlier, like Kevin Bacon. And so for our young listeners, Kevin Bacon like known as the actor who's connected to everybody, right? So that is such a a good illustration of networking in a professional environment. So every successful person has a story where one introduction changed everything. let's start off with you, Keith. What's how has the small world effect changed your life professionally? speaker-2: Yeah, one let's see. I'm I'm still over here laughing about the Kevin Bacon reference. speaker-0: 'Cause we're a hundred years old. speaker-2: Yeah. yeah, I mean I I guess I I kinda go back to I mean, there there's a couple of things, right? But I go back to I went to college with Chris Carey, Chris is now the president here, he he drew me over like that connection. I would not have ended up in HR, I wouldn't be where I'm at today, I wouldn't have grown through this organization if it wasn't for him being a a connection of mine. The other thing I think about, like when I came into the organization, I I pretty quickly I don't know if I would have called him a mentor at the time, but somebody that I was bouncing some things off of was our VP of HR at the time. And I wasn't in HR. And so, like through that connection and through just talking to him, 12 years of my career and growth was in an HR area. And like specifically because of him, because it was just an interesting connection that we had. We met in a leadership development class that we were having at the organization. And He was the one who kind of encouraged me to consider that. if you had asked me back then if I would have ended up in HR, I probably would have chuckled a little bit, you know, like I was I was a sales guy and that's where I was gonna grow my career. And that HR experience has opened my eyes now to like there's so much more to the business and to what I can do. and it was really just because of those almost hallway conversations that we were having about issues that I was facing, things that he was experiencing. And that really led to I I kind of go back to that moment and say like that is where my career really grew from that moment. speaker-0: Yeah. That's good. Michelle, what about you? Have you ever had that moment and realize if I hadn't met that person, dot dot dot, like where would you be today? speaker-3: like I said, how we started the conversation, my first leader at Disney, him taking a chance on me, you know, that's the foundation of where I am today. but expanding a little bit on what Keith said, one thing that I had to do, I, you know, I'm an operator through and through. I was a director of operations for many, many years. And I it was comfortable and I liked staying in that bubble. but going to different areas of the company and just, you know, having lunch with our HR director one day, having lunch with our director. Sales one day and just understanding what their role entails, things that are great about it, challenges that they're going through, helped me one become a better, well-rounded leader, so that I just wasn't siloed into operations and moving something or logistics from A to B or just facilitating or executing an event, but understanding you know what HR goes through to be able to hire talent, understanding the sales perspective of what they're going through, of how making sure that we're you know competitive in the market with with everything that we're doing. so it's just kind of going outside your comfort zone and understanding the people around you and the different departments around you and how that, you know, I wouldn't be where I am today if I didn't take a vested interest to be able to educate myself in all of the different areas of the company. speaker-0: So good. Yeah. Look, shout out to all the HR directors out there, people who work in the HR offices. That's who you want to know. I used to tell that to the young airmen or the you know, the people starting off their career, like, you need to know somebody in HR because they're gonna make sure that you get paid right. And that is important when you're starting your career. speaker-2: It's yeah. Yeah, people's pay is like that's the most important thing, right? Like payroll goes down, we're in trouble. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: That's right. That's right. Speak to that a little bit. Keith, we have some time here. You know, you spent like you said, twelve years in in people leading operations specifically HR. Talk to us about how important that specific department or all the all the ways that HR touches a company. speaker-2: It's in my opinion, it's amazing. so I spent time in organizational development. So like think about all the training, leadership development, pairing people with the right mentors, making sure they they have an individual development plan and they are on kind of a growth path, understanding where in the business leaders have successors, and if they don't have successors, how are we helping them develop their team to be their identified successor when they move on? Like those things allow you as a leader to be able to take on other areas of the business, right? If I didn't have an identified successor in HR, it would have been really hard for me to move over into transportation. So taking the time working with your HR team to do that is critical. I mean, just kind of the tactical things that you just mentioned, like making sure you're getting paid on time, making sure your benefits are set up on time, making sure your 401k is actually happening. Like there is there is an incredible amount of behind the scenes HR stuff that I I don't think a lot of people even think about or realize that happens every day to to kind of keep keep team members coming in each and every day. But speaker-0: So speaker-2: yeah. speaker-0: speaking of networking, that's kind of where you want to start, right? So Michelle, what about you, your experience in the the different companies that you worked for? speak a little bit to your relationship with the HR department in in general and how that's helped you grow your network. speaker-3: found that you have to make sure that you have the right HR leader because everything funnels down from them from you know kind of their attitude and their approach and their openness because if you have say a high D in HR that I would not work well in HR. I would get stuff done but kind of that mentoring and training and taking the extra time to make sure you know especially if somebody's struggling instead of like here's your resources I need you to get this done you know developing that that relationship piece and so I I think that's one of the most important positions in a company because they have to have so many different or abilities to wear so many different hats and approach things very differently, approaching me different than they would approach you, different than they would approach Keith, and being able to shift successfully and successfully have those conversations as well as the tactical things about the benefits, the pay, the all of the the training materials and the the coaching materials. It's just yes. God bless HR. speaker-0: That's a great perspective. Michelle, that was more personal because I spent so much time in HR myself. So as we start to wind down here with our with our show, we're gonna transition to our rapid fire questions. Now in in our previous sessions, we've had some like rapid, like it was as rapid. So let's see how fast we can go get the responses out of you guys. no order, just jump in when you feel like you have the answer. So here's a rapid fire ones, coffee chat or LinkedIn message. speaker-3: Coffee chat. speaker-2: Coffee chat. speaker-0: Business card or follow up email? speaker-3: Ooh, I think it's both. speaker-2: Yeah. I I I guess I would lean toward follow up email. I've got a stack of business cards on my desk that are like it's hard to get through sometimes. So follow up email. speaker-0: All right, pause right here, real quick. I know that there are so many technological ways to do it now. You can just, you know, do your airdrop to phone you know, phone to phone. People have this new app where you just scan and you can get that information. So I agree with you, Michelle. It is important to have that email address to be able to follow up on the email. And Keith, you gotta figure out that management with all your business cards. All right. next rapid buyer, mentor or manager. speaker-3: So definitely mentor. speaker-2: Mentor. speaker-0: But with mentor, okay, first impression or consistency. speaker-3: I think first impression leads to consistency because if you give a bad impression, I don't know that either's a on the on the receiving end for me, if you didn't make a good impression, I was like, mm. speaker-0: You don't have the opportunity for consistency. speaker-2: I think consistency is too hard without the first impression. I I I would agree. speaker-0: Y'all are tough. Okay. best networking advice. speaker-2: Be genuine. speaker-3: Agreed with a buddy. speaker-0: I love that be genuine and have a buddy. I love that. Okay, now we're gonna finish these sentences. The best opportunities usually come from speaker-2: people you know in your network. speaker-3: best opportunities. My best opportunities is when life has taken me on a hard left and I did not expect it. speaker-0: All right. So unexpected and hard lefts there. Okay. people remember speaker-3: How you made them feel. speaker-2: I gonna say how you treated them. Yep. speaker-0: I I love it. Love it. Okay. Students should never be afraid to. speaker-2: Ask for help. Ask questions. Just to tie a bow on it. Yep. Ask questions. speaker-0: There you go. There you go. All right, we have a couple more. Networking isn't speaker-2: just going to an event and talking at people with no real next steps or kind of desired outcome. speaker-0: Okay. speaker-3: Ugh, it isn't probably as intimidating as you initially think that it is. speaker-0: That's good. Networking isn't as intimidating as you think it is. All right, so networking is speaker-2: Critical, and really important for career growth, yeah. speaker-0: Good, good. Michelle, networking is speaker-3: I was gonna say a great tool for your career and necessary. speaker-0: Unnecessary. All right. So imagine you're speaking to a high school senior or first year college student. What's one thing they should or what they could do this month to begin building a stronger professional network? speaker-2: Self-reflection, understand what you're passionate about, and connect with like-minded people that are also passionate about that same thing. Really learn about it. speaker-0: Okay, love that. speaker-3: I I think it starts with what what are you really passionate about? Where where are the next steps in your career? What are those first steps and understanding what they are? and then look in your current network. Is there anyone that can connect you to someone or somebody that's already either an expert or you know, starting down that path ahead of you that can give you some some words of wisdom or introduce you to someone? speaker-0: Ooh, Michelle, you're gonna have us like writing out check checklists to make it all happen. All right, speaking of that, what's one mistake that could keep keep a young person from building meaningful relationships? speaker-2: not being communicative, not getting back to people. thinking that a a relationship or networking opportunity is not important, I think that could really hold you back. speaker-0: All right. All right, what what about you, Michelle? speaker-3: I think not learning from those that came before you. And I know that the landscape is changing very rapidly, especially with technology. but as you say, some of some of us older folks, you know, we we've been through it and we have some pearls of wisdom. It might be done a little bit differently in this day and age, but somebody has experienced exactly whatever challenge that you have or experience that you're going through. Somebody's walked there before you. speaker-0: Good. Just being humble and being open and coachable is what I've heard. all right. So if every student listening today remembered just one thing about networking, what would you want it to be? speaker-2: Ooh. it is it's critical and don't be afraid to do it. it it I think Michelle, you kind of said it, but it's really not that intimidating, right? If you're an introvert, it could be a little bit nerve wracking. If you're an extrovert, it could also be a little bit nerve wracking. No everyone is kind of at the same level in that meeting when you walk in. speaker-0: But it's not intimidating. speaker-3: I did there it is. speaker-0: Such alignment, such alignment. All right. Well, students, your next opportunity may not come from a job board. It may come from a conversation, a mentor, a teacher, a former classmate, a guest you met through AccessCo Leaders, which is my favorite. so invest in people, stay curious, follow up, that's important. say thank you. Open the door, right? Offer help before asking for it. The relationships you build today may become the opportunities you never imagined for tomorrow. So Thank you for joining us in our summer series with AccessCo Leaders. We'll see you next time. Yay.