Latest / Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast / Matthew Liberatore To The Bullpen? Iván Herrera next DH? Masyn Winn Stealing Bags Debate

Transcript

Matthew Liberatore To The Bullpen? Iván Herrera next DH? Masyn Winn Stealing Bags Debate · Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast

0:06
Speaker 1: Hello, everybody, Welcome to another additional cardinal territory. Jim Hayes
0:10
Speaker 1: with you alongside Kyle Gibson and Lance Lynn. And before
0:14
Speaker 1: we get started, Lance, it was pointed out to me
0:16
Speaker 1: that you may be drinking coffee this morning, straight out
0:20
Speaker 1: of the coffee pot.
0:22
Speaker 2: Is that true?
0:24
Speaker 3: Well?
0:24
Speaker 4: Which is easy, normal sized cut for a normal sized man.
0:29
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh. That's a single server. That's it, single service.
0:35
Speaker 3: Any coffee. You can drink it.
0:36
Speaker 4: When I'm done, Bank, how about you the curing machine
0:41
Speaker 4: use it?
0:41
Speaker 2: This is mine.
0:48
Speaker 1: The Cards and UH and Phillies open up a three
0:51
Speaker 1: game set tonight here in Saint Louis. After a rough stretch,
0:56
Speaker 1: Cardinals play a little better.
0:57
Speaker 2: Ryan now. They won five to seven.
0:59
Speaker 1: They're back at five and they're just three and a
1:01
Speaker 1: half games out of that last wildcard spot. The Phillies
1:04
Speaker 1: have won six of ten. They hold the third wildcard spot.
1:08
Speaker 1: It's gonna be Dobbins against Andrew Paynter, a rookie right hander.
1:13
Speaker 1: The former first round pick just one in eight on
1:15
Speaker 1: the season six point.
1:16
Speaker 2: Four eight ERA.
1:18
Speaker 1: He left his last start because of a hamstring tightness,
1:22
Speaker 1: but he's been cleared to pitch tonight and the Cardinals
1:27
Speaker 1: after Painter, of course will get Sinchez and Wheelers, so
1:31
Speaker 1: it's not going to be an easy series. Kyle, what
1:34
Speaker 1: are your thoughts on this matchup?
1:38
Speaker 3: A couple thoughts here. One, if you are not listening
1:43
Speaker 3: to the podcast or watching on YouTube, you never would
1:46
Speaker 3: get to see Lance's amazing coffee mug, so you probably
1:49
Speaker 3: ought to just watched the show as much as listen.
1:52
Speaker 3: The other thing is, I think the Cardinals are set
1:54
Speaker 3: up for a great week of games here, mainly because
1:58
Speaker 3: Adam wayn Ry was in town last night at the
2:00
Speaker 3: Washington Town and Country Fair. Elizabeth and I went out
2:04
Speaker 3: and watched Wayno dazzle the fans on stage. Also, I
2:08
Speaker 3: have to throw in here, Jim, completely unrelated to your
2:11
Speaker 3: baseball question. As usual, Kyle McClellan finished last in our
2:16
Speaker 3: fantasy football league, so Kyle McClellan had to go on
2:18
Speaker 3: stage with WAYNEO last night and seen take me out
2:20
Speaker 3: to the ballgame as fantasy football punishment. It was great entertainment,
2:26
Speaker 3: great entertainment. So with that said, like I said, totally unrelated,
2:30
Speaker 3: I think the Cards are set up for a great
2:31
Speaker 3: week just bringing in the good mojo. Wayno Is tonight.
2:38
Speaker 3: In all seriousness, I think tonight is a very important game.
2:42
Speaker 3: You want to get this game against Paynter, who's had
2:45
Speaker 3: some struggles in his full rookie campaign. The numbers are
2:49
Speaker 3: what the numbers are. He's got good stuff, but he's
2:51
Speaker 3: missed more in the middle of the plate, and you
2:53
Speaker 3: got to take advantage of those mistakes because then you
2:56
Speaker 3: have Sanchez and Wheeler who have been basically lights out
3:00
Speaker 3: most of the year. So if not for one start
3:03
Speaker 3: for Sanchez, I think his era would be possibly below
3:07
Speaker 3: two and it would absolutely be a two horse Racers
3:10
Speaker 3: with Cy Young so and then Wheeler is just I mean,
3:13
Speaker 3: he's been nasty. So the Phillies offense has been scoring
3:18
Speaker 3: some runs, their pitching has been giving up some runs.
3:21
Speaker 3: Their bullpen's been struggling a little bit. So yeah, I
3:24
Speaker 3: think this is a big series, obviously because it's a
3:26
Speaker 3: team in front of you. And I think the Cardinals
3:29
Speaker 3: still should have their eye on October.
3:32
Speaker 2: So Lancia.
3:34
Speaker 1: The Phillies do hit a lot of homers, but their
3:36
Speaker 1: ops is like twenty first and in baseball. So before
3:41
Speaker 1: the deadline, they went and got a really good hitter
3:44
Speaker 1: and a rise, a guy who's like an old school hitter.
3:48
Speaker 1: He's not giving you a pal, he just hits. But
3:51
Speaker 1: what do you think of that offense? Obviously Schwarber the
3:54
Speaker 1: bunch of guys had hit homers. What are the Cardinals
3:58
Speaker 1: have in store?
4:00
Speaker 4: It's not a fun offensive pitch too, because you can't
4:02
Speaker 4: really make mistakes or you'll get hurt. But if you
4:05
Speaker 4: pitch well and you you execute your game plan, there
4:09
Speaker 4: there are outs there too, at the same time as
4:12
Speaker 4: what is what it's telling you. So they've got a
4:14
Speaker 4: lineup that can be deep if you don't have your
4:16
Speaker 4: a stuff and if you don't have a great game plan.
4:19
Speaker 4: So it's gonna be interesting how they attack these guys
4:22
Speaker 4: who they are okay with pitching too, and who are
4:26
Speaker 4: you know who they're gonna want to pitch around or
4:27
Speaker 4: not let them beat them, you know, And I think
4:30
Speaker 4: tonight say I must win in a situation where they're
4:33
Speaker 4: ahead of you in the wild card, you got the
4:36
Speaker 4: rookie on the mound that you're facing, and then who
4:38
Speaker 4: you have the rest of the series. They have to
4:40
Speaker 4: figure out how to win two out of three here.
4:42
Speaker 4: So when they go to Philly later in the season,
4:46
Speaker 4: you know, hopefully if they get lucky, they can win
4:48
Speaker 4: two out of three there in case there's you know,
4:50
Speaker 4: any any type of you know, uh, situation down the
4:54
Speaker 4: line when it comes to playoff spots. So this series
4:58
Speaker 4: is anybody ahead of you is always always a series
5:00
Speaker 4: tonights and must win with who they have on the mound.
5:03
Speaker 4: If you don't win that one, then you're putting yourself
5:04
Speaker 4: in a really bad spot.
5:07
Speaker 1: Pitching wise, they're like the opposite the Phillies of the Cardinals,
5:11
Speaker 1: because you're tops in baseball and strike caps, right, they
5:14
Speaker 1: have swing and miss guys. The Cardinals don't have that
5:16
Speaker 1: book out. The Cards have Dobbins going, who really forced
5:21
Speaker 1: his way into the rotation by pitching really really well.
5:25
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I think it's a guy that we
5:27
Speaker 3: wanted to see at some point. Anyways, you know, get
5:29
Speaker 3: his chance of th rotation. You know, we know he's
5:31
Speaker 3: got good stuff and uh, you know, when he's gonna
5:33
Speaker 3: throw the ball well like he has, you got to
5:36
Speaker 3: give him the opportunity. And you know, we talked about it,
5:39
Speaker 3: you know the last time on here with some guys
5:41
Speaker 3: who are going to be coming up on some possible
5:44
Speaker 3: innings limits and if not on an innings limit at
5:46
Speaker 3: least possibly just a physical limit, you know, as we
5:50
Speaker 3: get into that. You know, I think a guy like
5:53
Speaker 3: Hunter Dobbins is going to be a really important you know,
5:55
Speaker 3: Quinn Matthews if he gets more of a chance. You know,
5:57
Speaker 3: some of these bullpen guys that are gonna come up,
5:59
Speaker 3: that's they're gonna an important role here. If the Cardinals
6:01
Speaker 3: are going to work the way back into this and uh,
6:04
Speaker 3: you know, stay in the mix. So you know, I
6:07
Speaker 3: know we're gonna get the Libby here in a little bit.
6:09
Speaker 3: But uh, yeah, I think Hunter Dobbins is a guy
6:11
Speaker 3: that you know, we want to see more from him,
6:13
Speaker 3: and uh, you know, we want to see him get
6:15
Speaker 3: a chance because I think Lance brought this up last
6:18
Speaker 3: show as well. Uh, if you can have some of
6:20
Speaker 3: these young starting pitchers that are really kind of taking
6:24
Speaker 3: hold of a spot starting pitching on the free market,
6:27
Speaker 3: uh free agent market is expensive. So uh, if you
6:30
Speaker 3: can have some young guys come in and and really
6:33
Speaker 3: kind of do almost what the Mariners have done, you know,
6:35
Speaker 3: fill your rotation with controllable young arms that are really
6:38
Speaker 3: good and and on the cheaper side in the baseball spectrum. Uh,
6:42
Speaker 3: you know, it can allow you to do a lot
6:43
Speaker 3: of different creative things with your position players.
6:46
Speaker 1: Controllable starting pitching is the most lucrative business in Major
6:52
Speaker 1: League Baseball, right, Controllable young arms. But the Cardinals starting
6:57
Speaker 1: rotation lands has been really solid. And the point about
7:00
Speaker 1: managing innings, right, I don't think we've yet to see it.
7:03
Speaker 1: Here's why McGreevy pitched yesterday. It's really really hot and
7:08
Speaker 1: he threw one hundred and two pitches. Now, I asked
7:11
Speaker 1: Dusty Blake about it, and he said, look, we monitor
7:14
Speaker 1: these guys. Apparently they have all these health analytics where
7:17
Speaker 1: they monitor everything from perspiration to heart rate, and they're like,
7:22
Speaker 1: these guys are fine. So I think you know, all
7:24
Speaker 1: this talking about managing innings, Lance, I don't know if
7:27
Speaker 1: we've seen that at this point in the season.
7:30
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean they haven't really. I think you're looking
7:33
Speaker 4: down the stretch here. They're going to have to figure
7:35
Speaker 4: that out. And did you say he forced his way
7:37
Speaker 4: in the rotation via trade? That's how he got into
7:41
Speaker 4: the rotation. So I don't know how that's forcible, But
7:46
Speaker 4: that being said, he's there and I think he should
7:51
Speaker 4: have been and that's why they traded for him, you know,
7:53
Speaker 4: before the year and stuff like that, because they saw
7:55
Speaker 4: this any him, so I'm looking forward to what he
7:57
Speaker 4: gets to do on a regular basis and Dobbins and
8:01
Speaker 4: then as these guys go. Yes, they've they've done a
8:06
Speaker 4: good job of mixing in starts and they mixing dobbins
8:09
Speaker 4: as the year went on, so they have been monitoring
8:12
Speaker 4: and pushing back when they when they felt necessary. I
8:16
Speaker 4: think that it's going to have to be a little
8:18
Speaker 4: bit more planned come come later this month. But I
8:24
Speaker 4: mean just you got to go down and start looking
8:25
Speaker 4: at innings and where where do you want each guy
8:28
Speaker 4: to finish and where stuff plays and stuff like that.
8:31
Speaker 4: I think we're gonna see more sprinkle in of Quinn
8:34
Speaker 4: Matthews and things of that nature, especially in September. So
8:40
Speaker 4: it's not so much doing it now, it's being prepared
8:44
Speaker 4: to do it and having everybody ready to do it
8:47
Speaker 4: for what you need to do in September. And that's
8:49
Speaker 4: where you're gonna get. Okay, we can add an extra
8:52
Speaker 4: starter one time or two times through here, and then
8:55
Speaker 4: next thing, you know, that's one less start, two less
8:58
Speaker 4: starts by the end of the year and you look
8:59
Speaker 4: up and hey, everyone stayed healthy this year, but the
9:02
Speaker 4: only through what twenty eight starts, Kyle, and I think nowadays,
9:07
Speaker 4: if you get the thirty if you I mean back
9:09
Speaker 4: in the day, if you get in thirty three was
9:10
Speaker 4: a full year thirty four. So if they get to
9:13
Speaker 4: twenty eight, they had a good year. And I think
9:16
Speaker 4: everybody's kind of on pace for that. I think what
9:18
Speaker 4: Libby was at twenty two last night, So I think
9:21
Speaker 4: you're gonna start seeing the extra days here to where
9:24
Speaker 4: they nobody gets thirty, and that's monitoring them in my opinion.
9:28
Speaker 4: But this day and age, people don't see that as monitoring.
9:30
Speaker 4: But if you're under thirty starts and you pitch the
9:32
Speaker 4: whole season, not going on the il, you got monitored.
9:35
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think. Also the thing to think about too
9:38
Speaker 3: is we can't ignore minor league innings as well, right, So,
9:40
Speaker 3: I mean, you know McGreevy stayed healthy and he'said full
9:43
Speaker 3: minor league seasons. The main difference here is just the
9:46
Speaker 3: stress of what a major league game and what a
9:49
Speaker 3: major league season puts on you. So it's not like
9:52
Speaker 3: these guys have never thrown eighty or ninety innings, you know,
9:56
Speaker 3: I mean they have, it's just once you start compiling
9:58
Speaker 3: these innings every fifth six day instead of every seven
10:01
Speaker 3: and then you start adding in the fact that you're
10:04
Speaker 3: in front of thirty thousand fans instead of three thousand fans,
10:07
Speaker 3: and you start adding in the stress of people understanding
10:10
Speaker 3: that this is now their livelihood and their job and
10:12
Speaker 3: one more bad start I could be sent down, and
10:15
Speaker 3: it just adds everything, and it really it adds stress
10:19
Speaker 3: to those innings. So we don't want to ignore that
10:21
Speaker 3: they throw in minor league innings, but you know, once
10:23
Speaker 3: you get up to a certain number of big ligginnings,
10:24
Speaker 3: it does start to add on.
10:27
Speaker 4: Hey, McGreevy through one mc greevy through like one sixty
10:29
Speaker 4: five last year in triple A. So he's gonna he's
10:32
Speaker 4: gonna hit that number. He's not gonna go over that number,
10:35
Speaker 4: which is monitoring innings because you don't want him go
10:37
Speaker 4: to one eighty big league because that will that will
10:39
Speaker 4: be too much of a jump.
10:41
Speaker 3: He's gonna throw He's never done that extra month.
10:44
Speaker 4: Yeah, so's they are monitoring. They might not say they are,
10:47
Speaker 4: but they have monitored this thing from the get go.
10:51
Speaker 1: The stress of major league innings is a very real thing. Now, Uh,
10:56
Speaker 1: this preview was brought to us by our friends at
10:59
Speaker 1: Box one.
11:00
Speaker 2: Kyle tell us more about that.
11:02
Speaker 3: MLB on Fox is streaming on Fox one. The Race
11:05
Speaker 3: to October starts now, and we have your front row
11:07
Speaker 3: seats to the wildest walkoffs, lights out, pitching, and clutch
11:10
Speaker 3: plays all season long. Follow every camp, miss matchup as
11:13
Speaker 3: team's battle first spot in the postseason. Then stream the
11:16
Speaker 3: twenty twenty six World Series live on Fox One at
11:19
Speaker 3: home or on the go, live or on demand, never
11:22
Speaker 3: miss a moment. Stream now and start your Fox one
11:26
Speaker 3: three day free trial at foxwe dot com.
11:30
Speaker 1: Well done, sir, And as Kyle brought up earlier, we're
11:34
Speaker 1: going to talk a little Libby here. Libby had a
11:36
Speaker 1: really good outing in Toronto. We thought it was one
11:40
Speaker 1: to build off and his last start the other day
11:43
Speaker 1: against Colorado hot day and at Lance. I don't know
11:46
Speaker 1: if you saw that particular outing, but it was clear
11:49
Speaker 1: early on that Libby wasn't himself. Like in the first inning,
11:53
Speaker 1: he was sweating a lot. It looked like he was
11:55
Speaker 1: breathing heavy and uh, and he got rocked a little bit.
12:00
Speaker 2: He didn't even cover first.
12:01
Speaker 1: On a ground ball to another infielder like, which isn't Libby.
12:06
Speaker 1: Where is Libby right now? Because we were hoping he
12:09
Speaker 1: was on the right. We're all Libby guys here, all
12:11
Speaker 1: of us love Libby and know what he can do.
12:14
Speaker 1: But he's not in a good place right now.
12:16
Speaker 2: Lance.
12:17
Speaker 4: No, I think when especially like you're talking about Libby
12:20
Speaker 4: not covering first, you see a guy that's searching for
12:23
Speaker 4: him to have that lapse on the mound. Like for me,
12:27
Speaker 4: it's easy because I was never going to get there anyways,
12:29
Speaker 4: So it was just one of his thanks. Everyone new,
12:32
Speaker 4: you're on your own if it goes to if it
12:34
Speaker 4: goes to that side. But Libby, Libby is a Libby
12:38
Speaker 4: is a by the book guy. He you know, he's
12:39
Speaker 4: always where he's supposed to be, plays the game in
12:42
Speaker 4: the right way. So for him to have that lapse,
12:44
Speaker 4: that means there's there's things going on up top that
12:48
Speaker 4: he's searching for, fighting trying to find. You know, there's
12:51
Speaker 4: all kinds of different ways to do it, and I
12:54
Speaker 4: mean I've kind of said this earlier this year. We
12:57
Speaker 4: have to find a way for Libby to simplify this
12:59
Speaker 4: game day in and day out and find his baseline
13:04
Speaker 4: because what we're seeing is there's too many there's these
13:07
Speaker 4: good innings, good stretches of four or five innings, and
13:10
Speaker 4: then a blow up. We're not he needs to if
13:13
Speaker 4: we find what our baseline is, who we are, what's
13:15
Speaker 4: our three pitch mix, How can we go and attack
13:18
Speaker 4: the right handed hitter, left handed hitter? How can we
13:21
Speaker 4: exploit certain things? And that's our baseline. I think we're
13:25
Speaker 4: trying to do too much and put too much out
13:27
Speaker 4: there at once, a little bit like they were doing
13:30
Speaker 4: to Jordan Walker on the hitting side, where it's like
13:33
Speaker 4: you need to try this or that or do this,
13:36
Speaker 4: and next thing you know, you're tinkering and anything and
13:38
Speaker 4: you lose who you are. Libby's gonna find who he
13:41
Speaker 4: is as as his baseline, and then we can figure
13:44
Speaker 4: out how we can build without losing that. And then
13:47
Speaker 4: that's when we're not going to have the uh the
13:49
Speaker 4: innings of craziness or our bad starts turned into six
13:52
Speaker 4: innings of three runs or four. You know you're gonna
13:55
Speaker 4: have your your bad ones here and there, but it's
13:57
Speaker 4: not a roller coaster gaming and game out because you
14:01
Speaker 4: don't have your baseline. So I think that's the main
14:03
Speaker 4: thing is how can we simplify it? What is he
14:06
Speaker 4: comfortable with, what are your one A, your number one,
14:10
Speaker 4: number two pitches? What's our third one that day? What's
14:12
Speaker 4: our fourth one Ifo're going great? And how are we
14:14
Speaker 4: going to get through each inning? Each you know, each
14:18
Speaker 4: each lineup as the game goes on, and every lineup differently,
14:22
Speaker 4: But you also have to know who you are and
14:24
Speaker 4: what you're about, because if you are searching for certain
14:27
Speaker 4: things or chasing certain things throughout a game and stuff
14:30
Speaker 4: like that, the game speeds up, and that's when you
14:32
Speaker 4: give up, you know, three or four runs or make
14:34
Speaker 4: a mistake, and he is walking too many guys. He's
14:38
Speaker 4: at forty three walks this year. I saw. That's three
14:41
Speaker 4: more than you had last year already. So that tells
14:43
Speaker 4: me that there is too much teen cream going on
14:47
Speaker 4: where he's not even comfortable enough to throw strikes and
14:49
Speaker 4: quality strikes. So we need to find his baseline and
14:52
Speaker 4: regroup a little bit. And I don't think that involves
14:54
Speaker 4: going to the bullpen, but you know, some people might,
14:58
Speaker 4: but I think he's got to. He keeps starting and
15:00
Speaker 4: we've got to figure out if he can get through
15:03
Speaker 4: this season. The next thing, you know, we looked up
15:04
Speaker 4: he's at a four or five at the end of
15:05
Speaker 4: the year, which is very doable if he stops walking
15:08
Speaker 4: guys and kind of figures and locks it into you
15:11
Speaker 4: know what he's best at, and go from there. So
15:14
Speaker 4: there's a lot, a lot of things to like, but
15:16
Speaker 4: some things to clean up.
15:19
Speaker 1: Kyle, if you were advising Livy and he told me this,
15:23
Speaker 1: by the way, he said after his Toronto start he
15:25
Speaker 1: realized he would he didn't trust his ability to just
15:30
Speaker 1: pound the zone like he was trying to be too fine,
15:32
Speaker 1: and he felt like he discovered that in the Toronto start.
15:35
Speaker 1: But Lance brings up a point. A lot of people
15:38
Speaker 1: are saying, look, he was great in the bullpen. Would
15:42
Speaker 1: it be a terrible thing to put him in the
15:44
Speaker 1: bullpen to get right again? Not saying he'll never start again,
15:48
Speaker 1: because we've seen him be a very good starter before, right,
15:51
Speaker 1: He's had flashes, just not as consistent as we'd like.
15:55
Speaker 1: Is that a potential solution or how do you see it?
15:59
Speaker 3: I think with how much Libya has bounced back and
16:01
Speaker 3: forth between bullpens starting, if you move him back to
16:05
Speaker 3: the pen, he stays there. That's just that's my opinion,
16:10
Speaker 3: all right. I think I can speak to his struggles
16:13
Speaker 3: pretty well. Here he is having a Kyle Gibson twenty
16:17
Speaker 3: fourteen in Minnesota. Okay, in twenty fourteen, I believe I
16:23
Speaker 3: led the league with Justin Masterson with the most starts
16:26
Speaker 3: of five runs or more given up, And I also
16:29
Speaker 3: is tied with Clayton Kershaw with the most outings of
16:32
Speaker 3: zero runs or less given up. It was either all
16:35
Speaker 3: or nothing. Libby currently is at let's see if my
16:38
Speaker 3: math is see if I don't can remember, he is
16:40
Speaker 3: currently at ten starts of four runs or more, and
16:44
Speaker 3: he is currently at eight starts of one runs or
16:47
Speaker 3: zero one run or zero runs given up. All right,
16:50
Speaker 3: so we have feaster or famine here. The team's won
16:52
Speaker 3: thirteen of his twenty two starts, I believe. So if
16:56
Speaker 3: your starter gives up one or less, you got a
16:58
Speaker 3: great chance to win, obviously or not. Okay, So I
17:02
Speaker 3: know we can pick on Libby here a little bit,
17:04
Speaker 3: but he's given the team a chance to win more
17:06
Speaker 3: times than he hasn't All right now, I say that
17:09
Speaker 3: because I had to that year and then the coming
17:15
Speaker 3: couple years after. I had to figure out how I
17:20
Speaker 3: was gonna work through these blow up innings and these
17:22
Speaker 3: blow up starts, and what I started to realize was
17:25
Speaker 3: that my mindset was not a quality mental mindset. In
17:30
Speaker 3: the moment, right, I started talking to myself like, man,
17:33
Speaker 3: if I give up an extra run here, if I
17:36
Speaker 3: give up a hit here, this is gonna spiral. It's
17:39
Speaker 3: gonna go haywire on me. Right. I started talking like
17:42
Speaker 3: I need to do this, I need to do that.
17:44
Speaker 2: Right.
17:44
Speaker 3: So, if I'm sitting down with Libby, I'm saying, listen, Bud,
17:47
Speaker 3: all right, you want to play baseball. You don't need
17:50
Speaker 3: to play baseball. You want to be here, you want
17:52
Speaker 3: to be successful, you don't need to be successful, you
17:55
Speaker 3: don't need any of this. Right, He's gonna be a
17:57
Speaker 3: non baseball player a lot longer than he's a baseball player.
18:00
Speaker 3: All right. Now, I say that because when we fail
18:02
Speaker 3: at things we need, we're gonna get real mental and
18:04
Speaker 3: psychological hurer Jim. So this is life lessons. When we
18:08
Speaker 3: fail at things we need, it has a bigger impact
18:11
Speaker 3: on us as a person, all right. When we fail
18:12
Speaker 3: at things we want to do, it's not as big
18:14
Speaker 3: of a deal. So I would sit with Livy and say, hey,
18:17
Speaker 3: we got to figure out how we're talking to ourselves.
18:19
Speaker 3: On the mound. We got to figure out how we're
18:21
Speaker 3: preparing for the start. We don't need to get this
18:24
Speaker 3: ground ball here. What do you want to do? And
18:26
Speaker 3: then you just have more control over the situation when
18:28
Speaker 3: you fail or when you succeed. But I understand his struggles.
18:32
Speaker 3: It stinks because I had this this snowball effect where
18:36
Speaker 3: it's like, okay, well I've given up two, so it
18:38
Speaker 3: probably means I'm going to give up two more. This
18:40
Speaker 3: is one of those starts where it's not going to
18:42
Speaker 3: be a good one, and I guess I'll just try
18:44
Speaker 3: again in five days. And then you find yourself not
18:47
Speaker 3: covering first base. You know, it's your mind can get racing,
18:51
Speaker 3: and I feel for him because it's it's tough. And
18:54
Speaker 3: then the one game where you go out and deal,
18:57
Speaker 3: you don't necessarily feel the confidence because in your mind,
19:02
Speaker 3: you're like, well, that's just one game, you know, it's
19:04
Speaker 3: not a streak of you know, quality starts or whatever.
19:08
Speaker 3: That's kind of where even though it's great to give
19:11
Speaker 3: up zeros all the time, which not many guys do that, right,
19:14
Speaker 3: there's not many guys that have a two to five
19:16
Speaker 3: or lesson just dominate. It's it really is helpful to
19:20
Speaker 3: go out there and have a string of six to
19:23
Speaker 3: eight starts where it's two or three runs right, and
19:27
Speaker 3: you always feel like your team is always in the
19:29
Speaker 3: game and you're really giving up solo runs here, solo
19:32
Speaker 3: runs there are one anywhere you give up to But
19:34
Speaker 3: most of the game is good. It's tough to bounce
19:38
Speaker 3: back and forth and either have a good win or
19:39
Speaker 3: a bad one. But you know, I know the Cardinal
19:42
Speaker 3: staff they're going to keep helping them get through it,
19:45
Speaker 3: keep pumping his confidence up, making sure that you know,
19:47
Speaker 3: we can find the little adjustments here and there. But
19:50
Speaker 3: you know, it's he's done a pretty good job for
19:54
Speaker 3: how many games he's he struggled through. And like Lance said,
19:58
Speaker 3: I would not be surprised to see at the end
20:00
Speaker 3: of the year he has a four or five right there,
20:02
Speaker 3: because twenty fourteen give you ended up with a four
20:05
Speaker 3: five Vira and had all those bad starts, So that's
20:08
Speaker 3: how it goes.
20:08
Speaker 1: Sometimes I'd love to see Lebby get going. And it's
20:13
Speaker 1: always great to hear from Sigmund freud Gibson. We're gonna
20:16
Speaker 1: take a break here. You're watching Cardinal Territory on the
20:19
Speaker 1: Foul Territory Network.
20:20
Speaker 5: I know this is a busy time of year for
20:22
Speaker 5: many of you, including AJ. When you're home, you need
20:25
Speaker 5: everything to get done fast with quality.
20:27
Speaker 3: Absolutely That's why Factor Meals are perfect for me.
20:30
Speaker 6: Ready in two minutes, healthy, pre made protein, all the
20:34
Speaker 6: things I like, vegetables, They're all mixed into one and
20:37
Speaker 6: it's quick, easy cleanup. Don boom, I'm full, Move on
20:41
Speaker 6: to the next task.
20:42
Speaker 5: No prep, no cleanup. Every week you'll find over one
20:45
Speaker 5: hundred nutrient dense menu items to choose from and new
20:49
Speaker 5: options like salmon burgers, shredded pork, and much more. Plus
20:53
Speaker 5: add on Jill crave like pumpkin flavored cheesecake and protein shakes.
20:58
Speaker 5: Let's eat. Head to factormeals dot com slash foul fifty
21:03
Speaker 5: off and use code foul five zero off to get
21:06
Speaker 5: fifty percent off and one free breakfast item per box
21:09
Speaker 5: for one year while supplies last until ten thirty one
21:13
Speaker 5: twenty six. That's code Foul fifty off at factormeals dot
21:17
Speaker 5: com Foul fifty off Factor Meals dot Com see website
21:20
Speaker 5: for more details.
21:22
Speaker 1: Ivon Herrera is hitting again, right, Uh, he's hitting for
21:26
Speaker 1: power again. All that's good, but when he's behind the plane.
21:30
Speaker 1: It's becoming more and more apparent that teams are going
21:33
Speaker 1: to run wild.
21:34
Speaker 2: Right.
21:35
Speaker 1: Uh, he's zero for thirty five this season throwing guys out.
21:38
Speaker 1: I think he's got a streak of fifty seven straight
21:41
Speaker 1: steals without throwing a guy out. And by the way,
21:45
Speaker 1: not pyl on Libby because I want Libby to do well.
21:49
Speaker 1: But he wasn't holding guys on either, So it was
21:51
Speaker 1: a mix of bad things for Herrera.
21:54
Speaker 2: What do you do with that? Lance?
21:56
Speaker 1: A guy who you know can hit a guy who
21:58
Speaker 1: wanted to catch it, does some things well behind the plate,
22:01
Speaker 1: but just isn't throwing guys out.
22:03
Speaker 2: What's the solution here, Lance.
22:07
Speaker 3: D h.
22:09
Speaker 4: D It's simple, man, Oh I don't think so. Come on, Hey,
22:14
Speaker 4: well here, Kyle, hear me out. Hear me out. Because
22:17
Speaker 4: we played with him and our last year. We can
22:21
Speaker 4: we keep going down this saying okay, it's mechanical, it's
22:24
Speaker 4: this and that some people just can't can't throw anybody out.
22:27
Speaker 4: I don't know how else to say it. I don't
22:29
Speaker 4: know if like we we had the other arm got
22:32
Speaker 4: cleaned up this and that. It's been like this since
22:36
Speaker 4: he got to the big leagues. I don't think if
22:40
Speaker 4: there's a magic solution, Yadi would have found it already.
22:44
Speaker 4: I'm gonna say that out like, there's no other way
22:47
Speaker 4: to say it. If there was a way for him
22:49
Speaker 4: to do it, it would have already been found. We thought
22:52
Speaker 4: it was the arm, this and that. I think from
22:55
Speaker 4: the get go he does some good things behind the plate,
22:58
Speaker 4: catching blocking, and he tries his butt off, but there
23:02
Speaker 4: is just he just he can't throw anyby out.
23:04
Speaker 2: Now.
23:04
Speaker 4: Some it's not always his fault, right, we can look
23:07
Speaker 4: at the you know, holding runners on and stuff like that,
23:09
Speaker 4: but when it becomes a no no matter who's on
23:14
Speaker 4: the mountain, they go when I'm catching it's and it
23:17
Speaker 4: starts wearing on you mentally and stuff like that. So, yeah,
23:20
Speaker 4: what's the fix? I you know, I'm not a you know,
23:22
Speaker 4: catch and throw guy, but obviously he needs to clean
23:25
Speaker 4: his footwork up, and he's clean the you know, the
23:28
Speaker 4: transfer up, and he's shortened the arm and needs to
23:31
Speaker 4: throw it harder and more accurate. Like that's the simple
23:34
Speaker 4: way to say it. But can he physically do it?
23:37
Speaker 4: I don't know. He hasn't been able to do it
23:38
Speaker 4: in his uh in the Big League so far, but
23:40
Speaker 4: he can hit so d H.
23:44
Speaker 3: Or left field. I don't know to tell you, Kyle,
23:49
Speaker 3: you disagree what I disagree?
23:52
Speaker 4: I yes, you we want him. I love the kid too.
23:56
Speaker 4: We want him to like just throw out, throw out
23:59
Speaker 4: thirty or twenty five. Heck, five percent of runners right now?
24:04
Speaker 4: Is just give me a five percent or one?
24:06
Speaker 3: I don't know.
24:06
Speaker 4: We're oh for the last whatever, it doesn't there there's
24:10
Speaker 4: what's the fixed guy? What you can't you're on catcher?
24:16
Speaker 3: Well, well, it's not called thrower first off or right,
24:18
Speaker 3: it's not called the position is not called throwing people out.
24:21
Speaker 3: The position is called catcher, all right, So we even
24:23
Speaker 3: be back and get on a knee and catch it,
24:26
Speaker 3: all right. You're like, let's be honest.
24:30
Speaker 4: Goal goalies block it like he would go get a
24:33
Speaker 4: goalie from the damn Blues. Then if that's what we're
24:36
Speaker 4: gonna do.
24:37
Speaker 3: I hear you. I mean, I guess the question to me,
24:42
Speaker 3: the question I would have to ask, is all right,
24:43
Speaker 3: or you know, thirty six in a row? Whatever it is,
24:46
Speaker 3: fifty in a row? I mean, what does that translate to?
24:50
Speaker 3: I mean to a game that he catches one a
24:53
Speaker 3: game that he's catching. I mean, I would assume. I
24:57
Speaker 3: don't know how many catching starts he has this year,
25:00
Speaker 3: but you know, we're one hundred and twenty games in.
25:03
Speaker 3: You're you know, he's got to have caught what fifty
25:06
Speaker 3: or sixty games, maybe more.
25:07
Speaker 5: So.
25:07
Speaker 3: I mean we're talking every other, you know, every other.
25:11
Speaker 3: Start here, we're getting a stolen base. So let's not
25:13
Speaker 3: like freak out totally where it's literally every game it's
25:18
Speaker 3: five stolen bases and it's costing the team four runs
25:21
Speaker 3: every time. Okay, so I want to start there. Lance,
25:25
Speaker 3: You are absolutely correct, all right. As I looked at
25:27
Speaker 3: a little bit of baseball savant stuff, pop time is
25:30
Speaker 3: one nine to nine in the big leagues. You want
25:32
Speaker 3: to see that below one point nine. And people are like, well,
25:35
Speaker 3: tenth of a second, what's a big deal, Well, the
25:36
Speaker 3: bases are bigger, and it's just a science. If your
25:39
Speaker 3: pitcher is uh, you know, a one to three to
25:43
Speaker 3: the plate and your catcher is a one to nine
25:46
Speaker 3: to the plate, you're gonna throw up more guys. All right,
25:48
Speaker 3: So that's just that's Matt. Okay. So yes, footwork, arm action, accuracy,
25:56
Speaker 3: you named all of it, Lance, all right, I get it,
25:58
Speaker 3: all right, You're not wrong. But let's keep in mind
26:03
Speaker 3: that blocking his's average receiving abs above average.
26:10
Speaker 2: What are we.
26:11
Speaker 3: Trying to get out of Avon Herrera? Okay, we're trying
26:15
Speaker 3: to get a catcher that can be average or if
26:18
Speaker 3: he can keep working at it. Throwing the second footwork
26:21
Speaker 3: is something that I believe you can work on, right,
26:23
Speaker 3: and I think you can get better at So can
26:26
Speaker 3: he keep getting better and make himself of average catcher?
26:29
Speaker 3: Then we have an elite hitting catcher who's above average defensively.
26:34
Speaker 3: How valuable is that player? Extremely valuable? Right at DH? Now, granted,
26:41
Speaker 3: DH is very different in today's game. It's not nearly
26:43
Speaker 3: as much of a slug position because teams have not
26:47
Speaker 3: paid dhs, so you have only a couple of them
26:49
Speaker 3: that actually slug in our offensive positions. Really it's more
26:53
Speaker 3: of a platoon. But a DH that is an above
26:57
Speaker 3: average hitter doesn't have as much value as a catcher
27:00
Speaker 3: that's an average catcher and above average heratterer. So I
27:04
Speaker 3: don't give up on it. I don't think there's any
27:07
Speaker 3: reason to You know, this is this is not teaching
27:11
Speaker 3: a guy play discipline or how to hit with power.
27:14
Speaker 3: You know, I think these are skills that he can develop.
27:16
Speaker 3: I think these are skills that he can get better at,
27:19
Speaker 3: and I think you leave them behind the dish as
27:21
Speaker 3: much as possible, because, once again we're talking every other
27:25
Speaker 3: game he's giving up a stolen base. Okay, it looks
27:28
Speaker 3: bad because it's a streak, but can we go back
27:32
Speaker 3: and look and see how many of these runs actually
27:34
Speaker 3: score and what it does. Let's get a li of
27:37
Speaker 3: Sports Bureau or something on that. You know what, all
27:40
Speaker 3: these guys.
27:42
Speaker 4: He's thrown out seven of one hundred and ten in
27:44
Speaker 4: his career.
27:46
Speaker 1: Here's the thing, here's the thing, says listen. Ali Marmle says,
27:53
Speaker 1: he may be the hardest working guy on the team.
27:55
Speaker 2: This guy works.
27:55
Speaker 1: You know, he played hard going guy, but but he
27:59
Speaker 1: doesn't care all that often. It's not like he's in
28:02
Speaker 1: there three out of five games. Okay, he's not.
28:05
Speaker 2: And what we.
28:07
Speaker 1: Saw, what we saw with Colorado, and I think this
28:09
Speaker 1: is where this is where it gets, really where the
28:12
Speaker 1: rubber meets the road is that Colorado was just running wild,
28:17
Speaker 1: and you don't want that to be other teams.
28:23
Speaker 3: I don't think how many teams, how many teams base
28:27
Speaker 3: their game on stolen bases, right, like one thing if
28:31
Speaker 3: had I don't know if we're gonna run out of
28:32
Speaker 3: time day or not, but one thing we were gonna
28:34
Speaker 3: ask is like you brought up Jim Mason Win and
28:36
Speaker 3: stealing bases, Like Mason Win is one of the fastest
28:38
Speaker 3: guys on the Cardinals and he doesn't even steal that
28:40
Speaker 3: many bases, So like, what are we what are we
28:43
Speaker 3: really worried about? How is it just gonna be certain
28:46
Speaker 3: teams that are gonna go out there and run, okay,
28:49
Speaker 3: but how many of those teams actually do that? Right? So?
28:53
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, then you just pick your series
28:55
Speaker 3: and you say, Okay, this isn't a serious ravan right
28:57
Speaker 3: now because it's throwing is not where we need it
28:59
Speaker 3: to be. Okay, Then he dhs more. I don't think
29:02
Speaker 3: you're gonna have a team. I'm just gonna throw out
29:05
Speaker 3: the Yankees. I don't think you're gonna have you know,
29:07
Speaker 3: Goldie and uh, you know, you name the players. Just
29:11
Speaker 3: go out there and say, you know what, I've got
29:12
Speaker 3: five solen bases and now I'm gonna steal every time
29:15
Speaker 3: because the back there. I just I don't think that's
29:17
Speaker 3: what we're gonna end up with, all right, I don't know.
29:20
Speaker 4: Let me, Philly's got run on you. He can catch
29:24
Speaker 4: Jef this series, you know, I just I don't know.
29:27
Speaker 4: That's I mean, that's how you that's how.
29:28
Speaker 2: You hide it. That is true. That's fair. I think
29:31
Speaker 2: that's fair.
29:32
Speaker 1: And look, this guy can hit, and I understand the
29:34
Speaker 1: value of having him hit and do some catching. I
29:37
Speaker 1: hope he gets it. But right now it's not working.
29:40
Speaker 1: We're gonna take a quick break. We're gonna tackle that question.
29:42
Speaker 1: Why isn't Mason when stealing more bases? You're watching Cardinal
29:46
Speaker 1: Territory on the foul Territory Network.
29:52
Speaker 5: Science experiment. For the one minute, we have to tell
29:54
Speaker 5: you about why we love Quint's electrolytes, including watermelon salt,
29:58
Speaker 5: raspberry salt. And I'm holding a citrus salt, just opened
30:01
Speaker 5: it and pour some powder into my water, shake it up,
30:04
Speaker 5: and AJ, why do you love it?
30:06
Speaker 6: I love Quints because after a long night out, a
30:08
Speaker 6: long day at the gym, a long walk in this
30:10
Speaker 6: Florida humidity, it tastes great and it gives me all
30:12
Speaker 6: the electrolytes I need. Why sugar free Stevy a free
30:17
Speaker 6: Keto approved and taste sweet because of that delicious fermented rice.
30:24
Speaker 5: It does taste really good. I'm drinking it right now
30:27
Speaker 5: while we talking about it. It's also made in the USA,
30:29
Speaker 5: rigorously third party tested. Give your body what it really
30:32
Speaker 5: needs to stay hydrated. Go to quints dot com slash
30:34
Speaker 5: foul for free shipping on your order and three sixty
30:37
Speaker 5: five day returns. That's q u i Ncee dot com
30:39
Speaker 5: slash foul for free shipping and three sixty five day
30:42
Speaker 5: returns quinn dot com slash foul. These statements have not
30:45
Speaker 5: been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product
30:47
Speaker 5: is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease.
30:51
Speaker 1: So Mason Wood did something the other night. He's still
30:54
Speaker 1: two bases to tie a career high for stealing two
30:58
Speaker 1: in one game. Obviously he wants to see more offense.
31:02
Speaker 1: But this guy has a good skill set. I think
31:05
Speaker 1: he's gonna hit eventually. And he's really fast, I mean
31:09
Speaker 1: it seems like and he's fearless. So you figure a
31:12
Speaker 1: guy like that can cause mayhem on the base pass,
31:16
Speaker 1: but we haven't. We haven't seen it to this point.
31:18
Speaker 1: I'd like to see Mason run more lance.
31:21
Speaker 2: Why isn't it.
31:23
Speaker 4: I think it's a little bit of everything. He hasn't
31:25
Speaker 4: hit the way that he's capable of this year, so
31:27
Speaker 4: that is minus and stolen bases just because he's not
31:30
Speaker 4: on as much as he needs to be to get
31:33
Speaker 4: extra bases. I also think you're seeing a kid that
31:36
Speaker 4: has had some knee and back issues and there's gonna
31:39
Speaker 4: be a time and a place to go get him,
31:42
Speaker 4: and then there's a time and a place to protect
31:45
Speaker 4: yourself a little bit. So I think we're seeing offensively
31:49
Speaker 4: not having his best year. I also think you're seeing
31:52
Speaker 4: a maturity of hey, today I might not have it
31:57
Speaker 4: and or I might not be feeling it off this
31:59
Speaker 4: picture this catcher because he's got a good pop time
32:02
Speaker 4: and a good ratio of throwing runners out. So he's
32:05
Speaker 4: just being smarter about it and doing the things that
32:07
Speaker 4: he needs to without putting himself in jeopardy to play
32:11
Speaker 4: every game at shorts up. So I don't want him
32:13
Speaker 4: to go chase thirty bags just because he can get
32:18
Speaker 4: thrown out more and all that. I think the idea
32:20
Speaker 4: is if you go over there and mess with pitchers
32:22
Speaker 4: and do all that and maybe not run, maybe do
32:24
Speaker 4: run here and there, and don't become automatic that messes
32:27
Speaker 4: with pitchers more than not, so picking his time keeping
32:32
Speaker 4: himself healthy is probably what's going on right now in
32:35
Speaker 4: a little bit of lack of offense. I think when the
32:37
Speaker 4: offense picks up to where we hope and think it
32:40
Speaker 4: can be, I think the bags will come a little
32:42
Speaker 4: bit more often. But I also still think that he's
32:45
Speaker 4: maturing into a guy that if we look up and
32:47
Speaker 4: he's steals twenty to twenty five of the right bags
32:51
Speaker 4: at the right time, that's more important than stealing thirty
32:54
Speaker 4: and just running whenever you want. So I think that's
32:57
Speaker 4: what we're starting to see the maturity of.
32:59
Speaker 1: And Mason says he is starting to do more of
33:01
Speaker 1: the the research package stuff about opposing pictures.
33:05
Speaker 2: You know when it's done. But I think you're right.
33:07
Speaker 1: If you had a bad back of knee issues, you
33:09
Speaker 1: want to keep that guy healthy.
33:11
Speaker 2: Kyle, you are eager to get in on this. Let's go.
33:15
Speaker 3: Yeah. Sorry, I mean I'm trying to figure out here
33:17
Speaker 3: why we're hammering on von Herrera. I haven't found his
33:20
Speaker 3: catches yetread yet, but I will for next show. I
33:23
Speaker 3: think I think you guys make a good point to
33:27
Speaker 3: hear about Mason winning health and making sure that he's
33:31
Speaker 3: you know, feeling one hundred percent. I think when we
33:34
Speaker 3: see him steal some more bases and do that, you know,
33:36
Speaker 3: we're gonna probably have a pretty good understanding he feels
33:39
Speaker 3: a lot better. You know, he's a guy that he
33:41
Speaker 3: does a lot of work as well. He puts himself
33:45
Speaker 3: in a lot of what looked to be really athletic
33:49
Speaker 3: positions because he gets to so many plays at shortstop.
33:52
Speaker 3: But it wears on you you know, he he gets
33:54
Speaker 3: to more you know, chances than a lot of shortstops
33:59
Speaker 3: do because of how he plays the game. So you know,
34:03
Speaker 3: could that be wearing on him a little bit at times? Yeah,
34:06
Speaker 3: So I think as he gets healthier and stays healthy,
34:09
Speaker 3: you know, I think we're gonna see him run more.
34:11
Speaker 3: It could have something to do with a little bit
34:13
Speaker 3: about where he's hitting as well. You know, I don't know.
34:17
Speaker 3: I think there's if this was part of the offensive
34:21
Speaker 3: strategy that you know, the team wants Mason to have,
34:24
Speaker 3: I think they would be telling him, hey, we really
34:26
Speaker 3: would like to see you run more. I don't think
34:30
Speaker 3: Ali and and the offensive guys are gonna be shy
34:33
Speaker 3: about saying that I think it's probably something where they've
34:35
Speaker 3: had those conversations and say, hey, right now, let's, you know,
34:39
Speaker 3: take a step back here. Let's make sure that we're
34:41
Speaker 3: staying healthy, and you can play your gold glove defense,
34:43
Speaker 3: and there's a many time and place to you know,
34:45
Speaker 3: swipe thirty backs.
34:48
Speaker 1: Well, gentlemen, I got to tell you, I think Kyle
34:51
Speaker 1: did miss misspeak there. I don't think lasting myself. We
34:54
Speaker 1: were hammering Herrera.
34:55
Speaker 2: We both like, oh yeah, we both already worked did
34:58
Speaker 2: we just want to see him?
35:00
Speaker 4: Have you ask what we do right now?
35:02
Speaker 3: Right now?
35:02
Speaker 7: We put him at D eight. That's simple. All right,
35:09
Speaker 7: I'm gonna that's gonna do it for. You're gonna figure
35:12
Speaker 7: it out. You got the hat on backwards. You've already
35:14
Speaker 7: gave us a lesson in psychology. I feel a lot smarter,
35:18
Speaker 7: or maybe don't.
35:19
Speaker 2: That's gonna I need a deep dive.
35:21
Speaker 4: Now, hold on, Jim, I need a deep dive and
35:23
Speaker 4: catch his mechanics so you can get him on point
35:25
Speaker 4: next week.
35:26
Speaker 2: Baby.
35:27
Speaker 3: All right, here's what's gonna really happen. We're gonna figure out,
35:30
Speaker 3: is it Dusty Blake. We've got to have somebody come
35:32
Speaker 3: on here. And I'm gonna reach out to the right person.
35:35
Speaker 3: I know they have the number about what the pictures
35:37
Speaker 3: are with a Vaughan or Pedro Jinger kirks back there.
35:40
Speaker 3: So next show, I'm gonna have the numbers. If they
35:43
Speaker 3: support my side, Like, if they support then I'll bring
35:50
Speaker 3: the rhetoric to the show. If they don't support my side,
35:52
Speaker 3: then you'll never hear about it again. That's only the
35:55
Speaker 3: right way to do this in twenty twenty six, right,
35:58
Speaker 3: we don't.
35:58
Speaker 4: Talk about hey, whatever, whatever pictures above a one three
36:01
Speaker 4: to the plate? Whatever pictures above one three to the plate.
36:05
Speaker 4: I even can't he can't catch them, simple and they
36:09
Speaker 4: ain't throw anybody out.
36:11
Speaker 3: See now. Also, he does have one Jim, and that's
36:15
Speaker 3: the picture Jim there is I see one caught stealing
36:19
Speaker 3: on his baseball Savont page. By the way, so let's
36:22
Speaker 3: just be fair.
36:24
Speaker 1: Okay, he hammered, all right, there was one guy hammering herrero. Alright,
36:30
Speaker 1: that's gonna do it for this edition of Cardinal Territory.
36:33
Speaker 2: We'll see you next time. Hopefully that episode won't suck.