Latest / Podcasts By Donna Jodhan / Remarkable World Commentary Episode #64: Interview with Alexander Barrasso, Policy Advisor

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Remarkable World Commentary Episode #64: Interview with Alexander Barrasso, Policy Advisor · Podcasts By Donna Jodhan

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Podcast Commentator: Greetings. Donna J Jodhan, LLB, ACSP and MBA invites you to listen to
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her biweekly podcast, Remarkable World Commentary.
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Here, Donna shares some of her innermost thoughts,
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insights, perspectives, and more with her listeners.
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Donna focuses on topics that directly affect the future of kids,
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especially kids with disabilities.
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Donna is a blind advocate, author, site loss coach,
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dinner mystery producer, writer, entrepreneur,
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law graduate, and podcast commentator.
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She has decades of lived experiences, knowledge,
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skills, and expertise in access technology and information as someone who has been
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internationally recognized for her work and roles,
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she just wants to make things better than possible.
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Hello everybody, and welcome to another episode of Remarkable World Commentary.
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I am Donna Jodhan, a lifelong disability advocate and one who sees the world mainly
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through sound, touch and stubborn optimism.
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I am a law graduate, accessibility consultant,
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author, lifelong barrier buster who also happens to be blind.
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You may know me from a few headline moments, as in November 2010,
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I won the Landmark Charter case that forced the Canadian government to make its websites
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accessible to every Canadian, not just the sighted ones.
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And in July of 2019, I co-led the Accessible Canada Act with more than two dozen
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disability groups to turn equal access into federal law and most recently,
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on June 3rd, 2022. I was greatly humbled by Her Late Majesty's Platinum Jubilee Award
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for tireless commitment to removing barriers.
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When I'm not in a courtroom or in a committee room or in a pottery studio,
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you will find me coaching kids with vision loss,
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producing audio mysteries, or helping tech companies to make their
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gadgets talk back in plain language.
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Everything I do circles one goal to turn accessibility from an afterthought into
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everyday Big brothers, I invite you to think of this show as our
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shared workbench where policy meets lived experience and lived experience
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sparks fresh ideas. Now, before we jump into today's conversation,
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let me shine a spotlight on today's guest, a change maker whose work is as every bit as
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remarkable as the world that we are trying to build.
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Alex Barrasso, I'd like to welcome you to my Remarkable World Commentary podcast.
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So, Alex, I always like to start with roots.
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Can you take my listeners back to your childhood in New York,
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growing up as the blind son of an Italian immigrant and share how that early family
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and cultural environment shaped the way that you see the world today.
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Alex Barrasso: Sure. Thank you, Donna, for giving me the opportunity to be on your
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podcast and for the excellent question.
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So my parents were immigrants from Italy, as you said,
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and I was born blind. And a couple of years after I was born,
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we moved from a small apartment into a house surrounded by neighbors.
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It was an incredibly multicultural street.
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The the neighbors to our left were from Yugoslavia.
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The neighbors to our right were from Ireland.
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The ones across the street were from Norway.
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It was And they were not all of them had had necessarily been the immigrants,
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but but their extended family was with them and it was it was just an amazing
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multicultural environment to grow up in.
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And I think that has contributed to just my, my openness as a person to people of
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different cultures, different backgrounds, different faiths.
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And in terms of my family life my mother in particular really
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infused me with an incredibly positive attitude.
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She used to tell me that I'm only limited by what my mind can,
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can dream of and do. And maybe that's not 100% true,
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but it certainly made me a very positive person.
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And a person who tried to live life that way.
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I remember when I was 6 or 7, my friends were getting bicycles for their
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birthday and I said, well, I want a bicycle.
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Of course, I didn't think about how I was going to ride this thing.
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I was going to learn to ride it.
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I just I wanted a bicycle, and I know I learned later on that my parents
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kind of had a conversation, well, do we get him a bicycle or not?
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And they eventually did.
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And my father would run with me and teach me how to use the training wheels.
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And then I graduated to two wheels, but my parents probably didn't know as much
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is that I would take my bike out and ride down the sidewalk by myself.
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And I mean, it's probably it's a miracle that nothing really bad happened to me.
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Except for the one time when I was with a friend and actually tried to keep up with him
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And fell down, chipped the tooth, bruised all four joints and,
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you know, whatever. But anyway, that hopefully gives your listeners a
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snapshot of kind of what, what it was like to grow up for me.
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And I know that that last incident I just mentioned resulted in my parents not talking
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to each other for a week, but you know, that's that's that's kind of a
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little bit about what it was like.
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I think I will tell you more offline about similarity to my dad,
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who taught me how to ride a bike.
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And I had very little vision as a child.
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So you have been blind since birth.
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Okay. Yet you chose a career that many people assume demands perfect eyesight.
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What drew you to the Foreign Service in the first place.
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And what do you remember about the moment that you decided,
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quote, I am going to be a diplomat.
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Alex Barrasso: Sure. So I was a senior in high school and I thought I wanted to study law after
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university. And at the time, we I was in a program called Washington
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Seminar on Government in Action, and we split up into groups.
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We researched a variety of issues and then wrote to officials in Washington involved in
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working those issues and asked for meetings when we traveled there.
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right.
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Alex Barrasso: And one of our stops was at the State Department,
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and we we were supposed to see someone from African Affairs and what was then Soviet
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affairs. But before they did that, they put a recruiter in front of us.
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And I just listened to him and I was just captivated.
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I said, wait a minute, I can learn languages,
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travel the world, meet people, experience cultures,
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represent the United States, and this can be my job.
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I said, where do I sign up?
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And from that moment, I knew that I was not going to go to law
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school. This is what I was going to do.
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And everything I did from that moment on, at least academically,
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was was geared towards getting myself ready for the Foreign Service exam.
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And I had to take it multiple times, which is not uncommon.
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Okay. Eventually got what is called the Thomas Pickering Fellowship,
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which through which the State Department covered my last year of grad school,
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and through which I signed up to spend at least five years in the department.
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I believe it was five. Maybe it was three that a minimum I had to do. I wasn't worried
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about the minimum because I knew I was going to do it right.
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And and that also gave me an internship right after grad school.
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And I guess I finished grad school in May of 1999,
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started my internship in June, came back to DC in August,
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and in September, I was starting entry level training with the State Department.
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And I didn't know it at the time, but would end up moving to Columbia for my
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first assignment.
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Holy jeez, I'm just blown away.
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I think there's something else we do have in common.
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When we speak offline, I want it to be a foreign diplomat as well.
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I never got there, so.
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Wow. So over your 26 year career, you have served in places
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as varied as Colombia, Singapore, Thailand the Czech Republic,
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Brunei, Saudi Arabia and finally Dubai with the Iran Regional
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presence office. When you look back across all of these postings,
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what are 1 or 2 moments that best capture capture for what it meant for you to
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represent the United States as a blind diplomat?
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Alex Barrasso: So Several highlights.
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Specific to blindness, I think I really enjoyed,
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for instance, connecting with schools for the blind and blind students in Thailand and in
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in the Czech Republic in particular in Singapore.
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I remember when when we got there, my wife and I and our,
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my guide dog guide dogs were not allowed in.
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right.
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Alex Barrasso: On transit or in public spaces.
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And I was very outspoken not just privately, but publicly about that.
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Lots of people told me it's it's not going to happen.
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Singapore is not ready for it.
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And it certainly didn't happen while I was there.
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But right five years after I left, I got an email from one of my former
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colleagues who said they changed the law.
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Guide dogs are allowed here.
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And she said to me, your impetus got people thinking.
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And we did it from within.
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We didn't. You know, we need outside pressure or want outside pressure,
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but we did it from within and it's real.
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And and you know, I certainly didn't go about it diplomatically.
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But but the result is there.
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And I talked to students in the Czech Republic about my career,
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my experiences, my accommodations, got them thinking about possibilities for
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them. And then in terms of just sort of broad career accomplishments I'll mention two.
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Don't. Yes. That don't have anything to do with blindness,
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really. But one was leading an interagency effort to finalize a $13.1
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billion defense sale and, at least according to Commerce Department
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statistics, that supported 65,000 U.S.
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jobs. And then another was negotiating the release of a
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couple and their three minor kids, and I won't mention the country from from
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military custody where they had been held for a couple of days and having to do that in a
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foreign language, assembling a team on, on very,
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very short notice to go and try to make those arrangements.
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And we succeeded and getting that family out of custody and back into to their life.
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So those are just a couple of general career highlights that stand out for me.
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Wow. I am simply blown away here.
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So I know from my own life that disability often means constantly negotiating
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attitudes as much as physical barriers.
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Can you talk about some of the attitudes or institutional barriers that you encountered
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in inside the diplomatic world, and how you learned to navigate or push
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through them?
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Alex Barrasso: Sure. So unfortunately, I think that the greatest attitudinal
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barriers I faced were from my own colleagues in the US government.
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That's a sad statement, but I think it's true.
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Certainly I have my allies.
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And I think we'll talk about them later, but there were also I think the,
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the default, really, when it comes to getting assignments in our system is that my
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blindness is is, well, well known to to State Department officials.
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Yeah. And there are other blind officers in the institution as well.
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There have been others before us.
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And I think the bottom line is when we're competing for assignments,
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we are often passed over in that process because hiring managers will say,
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well, why should I hire somebody that I have to ensure has reasonable accommodations when
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I can hire someone who is equally capable, or maybe not,
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or maybe more capable and doesn't require those accommodations.
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So why should I hire the officer with a blindness or another disability?
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I certainly was was denied certain opportunities.
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Not just in assignments, but I couldn't go to certain events.
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Like, for instance there were a couple of fly outs to aircraft carriers,
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including one when I was head of mission in Brunei.
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And the Defense Department would not let me go.
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Out there had the same thing happened in Saudi Arabia.
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So, so these are just things that happen, and you have to deal with them and push
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through. I mean, in Brunei, for me, the most important aspect of that was
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that that the bruneians get to go.
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So I could have presumably just cancelled the whole thing because I couldn't go,
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but that that wasn't that wasn't the right thing to do in my estimation.
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It was important for the bruneians to go and and then we ended up working with them to
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purchase some some Sikorsky helicopters.
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And that was not a deal on the same magnitude as the missile defense deal.
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But it also, it supported over a thousand US jobs.
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And I'm sure that the the experience on the aircraft carrier had a role to play in that.
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But you have to just push through these things you know,
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disappointments and rejections are a part of life,
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and perhaps more so for those of us with disabilities.
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And we just but we just have to learn to move on and and move forward.
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: You eventually rose rose to senior leadership roles,
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including Deputy chief of mission in and oh, I don't know how to pronounce this UN chargé
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d'affaires in Brunei. How did you approach leadership as a blind officer,
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and what did you do deliberately to show colleagues and host country officials
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that disability and authority not only can but do belong together?
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Alex Barrasso: Sure. So like all leaders, I have made my mistakes.
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I certainly I recognize that I think most importantly in terms of leadership is is
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being inclusive, listening to everybody around you because everybody has a different
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set of not just cultural and ethnic backgrounds and linguistic backgrounds,
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but everybody has a variety of career experiences.
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And I remember specifically in, in Saudi Arabia managing that program on
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critical infrastructure protection and public security. I remember going into meetings
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thinking, okay, I know how we're going to resolve this problem. I know what the
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solution is. I know how we're going to move this program forward.
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And I would listen to everybody around me and I would be the last to speak.
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And on on several occasions, my team convinced me to adopt a different
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course of action than the one I had in mind.
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And I would eventually tell them.
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I would tell them. Okay. This is. This is what I had planned. But no,
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you've convinced me otherwise. So here's what we're going to do it your way. And in all of
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those cases, listening to them was the right thing to do.
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So I think listening first, speaking later, being inclusive asking people
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who don't necessarily volunteer, volunteer their views to,
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to provide them. Right.
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Those those are some real keys, I think, to just general interpersonal
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leadership. In terms of my blindness, I have told all of my employees I'm an open
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book. You've probably never worked with a blind person before.
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Ask me whatever you want.
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No question is dumb. I'm not going to chastise anybody for a question they ask.
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My mother told me that someone asked me in school,
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how do you eat?
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yes, I've had that one.
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Alex Barrasso: With a fork.
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah. Very good. Yeah.
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Alex Barrasso: You know and I think that that creates just that openness creates trust.
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It even led one of my subordinates to come to me and say,
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you know what? My brother just had a he and his wife just had a baby.
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Born with your same condition.
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Oh, okay.
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Alex Barrasso: How how do they get started?
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What do they do? And I directed her to you know,
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to resources like the lighthouse, the commissions for the blind.
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But most importantly, I think I said. I said to her, I said, this
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is going to be okay. Life isn't over.
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You know, look at me. I'm here.
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You just have to instill positivity and give give him the tools that he needs to succeed.
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There's early child development programs. Et cetera. Et cetera.
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So hopefully that gets at what you were looking for in the question.
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Wow. You know, I had someone ask me the same thing.
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How do you eat? But I, I was more I probably was shyer than you are.
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I didn't say I eat with a fork.
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I just sat there and said, well, I eat the same way that you do,
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you know? But yeah.
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Alex Barrasso: That's a perfectly fine answer.
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah, well, I like yours.
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Now, as a blind host myself, I am particularly interested in the nuts and
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bolts. What kinds of accommodations or technologies have been most essential for you
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to do your job as a document and as a program director,
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where do you still find gaps that needed advocacy?
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Your creative problem solving?
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Alex Barrasso: Sure. So there are just several pieces to the accommodations package.
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Starting starting really at the house just making sure that the appliances are marked
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and that I can use them, whether it's the microwave or the dishwasher
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or the dryer, the washer in fact in in Dubai,
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I even asked my reader assistant to mark the exercise bikes at the gym because self-care
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is is so important, and and so is exercise, And that was that was really important is
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really important to me as a person.
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And so I wanted to make sure that, that I could go to the gym whenever the gym
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was open, it was right next to my house.
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I had no excuses and, and and just get on the bike and and do some
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cardio. So I had her mark, the the bikes, the start button and whatnot.
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And then in the office.
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So what I had was jaws.
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I'm sure most of your listeners are familiar,
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but for those who are not, you know, a screen reading software for the
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computer, I had that on all of our computer systems.
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I had a Braille printer.
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I also had a note taker.
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I've gone through several different ones.
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My my favorite was was the Vario.
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Varrio, but I. The last one I had was a focus 14.
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As I said, a Braille embosser and I had a full time reader.
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Assistant. Also I think in you know, in the State Department in particular,
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with the number of outside meetings and events,
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it was really critical to have human assistance for a lot of that.
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You know, I remember, for instance, in Brunei after events,
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we would go into the VIP room and all the ministers were there and the military brass
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were there. And I would literally work with my reader during the day and say,
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okay, here are the here are the three issues that I want to make some progress on tonight.
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And here are the people we need to find.
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And it was it was literally like target practice.
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You walk into the VIP room, The door closes behind you and you know the
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readers scanning the room.
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Well, I see this. This one, this one and that one.
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Okay. Let's go. You know, and we would resolve people think that those
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events are just for enjoyment.
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And some people think that diplomats just drink coffee and alcohol and well,
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there is coffee and sometimes there's alcohol,
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but you actually get things done.
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I remember in, in one event we were having issues with a particular agreement and
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my reader spotted the foreign, my Foreign ministry counterpart.
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I walked up to her, talked to her about it.
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She said, you know, this is really a ministry of communications issue,
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she said, but my counterpart from that ministry is at my table.
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Let me talk to him. And 15 minutes later, what we had not been able to resolve with
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exchanges of emails and paper in three weeks was done.
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So and the human assistance was just critical to doing that because I would have never
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found her on my own and never had that conversation.
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And who knows how much longer it would have taken.
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So, so that's that that's the the suite of accommodations on the job for the foreign
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Service exam. What I got was double time and the exam in Braille.
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Oh, great.
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Alex Barrasso: I think these days I believe it's all computer based.
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And so I, I mean, I don't know that Braille would would really come into play presumably.
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And of course, I haven't.
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It's been years since I took it, but presumably one would use jaws or any
28:07
other screen reader of choice to process the entrance exam,
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assuming that it's accessible.
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So.
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: And I guess a lot of exams are now going more online as well,
28:20
right? Like, yeah.
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Alex Barrasso: There are I mean, even my, our daughter's you know,
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they're taking exams online.
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They're, they're getting put into browsers that lock down the rest of the computer.
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So they can't use AI or look at their notes, and they're just in those screens that,
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that don't allow other programs to run, and they're taking their exams.
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I wonder if those things work with screen readers.
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I recently ran into great difficulty taking a cybersecurity exam through Pearson Vue,
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and I will tell you that my reader could not interpret the diagrams or the images.
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And so I had to forego the exam.
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I couldn't take it.
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Alex Barrasso: Wow. I'm sorry.
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah. And right now, I'm really fighting hard to get Pierson to understand what's going on
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and comp Tia, who is the creator of this exam,
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to make their exams more user friendly and accessible to persons with who are blind and
29:22
sighted. So yeah.
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Alex Barrasso: No, that's right. That's what has to happen.
29:27
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah. So as chair of the State Department's Disability Action Group,
29:35
you helped transform an employee network into a serious force for change.
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What were your priorities when you took on that role,
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and what are you proudest of achieving and your colleagues with disabilities?
30:00
Alex Barrasso: So I would say it, It had already been a force for change.
30:05
There's lots of things that we can point to in terms of accomplishments.
30:12
For instance even prior to to me taking over as chair,
30:19
you know, for instance getting funding for the State Department to have an accessible
30:26
Ada compliant residence in its housing pool at every post.
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That was a huge success.
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I mean, not not just getting the commitment to it,
30:38
but we actually got the funding for it.
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Problem?
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah.
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Alex Barrasso: And that was not done by me.
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That was that was my predecessors working really hard and tooth and nail and grinding
30:51
it out and, and with, you know, with colleagues in the relevant
30:56
offices who, who believed in it and wanted, wanted it to happen and want it to be
31:02
helpful. I think for me I had a couple of priorities
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I wanted. First and foremost, you know, it's a large organization,
31:19
hundreds of members, and not everybody has the same needs or the same interests.
31:28
Some folks are interested in getting reciprocity,
31:35
reciprocal recognition for their handicapped car tags from other states
31:45
for, for State Department parking.
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And that's incredibly important to them.
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Others of us were more interested in working on the the promotion process,
31:59
And could we for instance, could we stop the State Department from
32:04
counting in the promotion statistics, people who had temporary disabilities.
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So someone breaks a leg and needs temporary accommodations,
32:14
and they're counted as disabled if they get promoted.
32:17
Well, it's not really accurate.
32:21
But really just trying to serve the whole membership.
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And I think what I'm most proud of is we were able to launch the
32:37
hidden disabilities sunflower right across the the State Department headquarters
32:45
building. Right. And, you know, for those listeners that aren't
32:50
familiar with it, it's it's basically a a training.
33:01
Go ahead. Sorry, I've got a I'm hearing a lot of echo.
33:05
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. It's a training program on how to assist individuals with non-apparent
33:14
disabilities. The training is done by videos,
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and then you go ahead.
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Either that you are a person with a non-apparent disability by wearing a yellow
33:28
lanyard, or you wear a white supporting lanyard,
33:31
which demonstrates that you are willing to assist individuals with non-apparent
33:37
disabilities. And we trained over 600 people just in
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the launch. And then, you know, over the next several months
33:53
trained a total of over 1500 employees, and I heard a number of stories from
34:02
colleagues about how they would they would see someone with the white lanyard,
34:07
and they gave them the confidence to go up to them and say,
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hey, I actually need some assistance.
34:14
And they got the assistance they needed and really proud of that.
34:20
And I think also of the work that the organization did to help employees with their
34:27
reasonable accommodations processes.
34:29
It's a difficult process to go through.
34:32
Yeah. And at different points the process can break down.
34:38
And you have to understand that not everybody's experience is the same.
34:43
Not everybody's needs are the same.
34:44
And just trying to help employees kind of navigate that process and giving them ideas
34:52
on on what they can. You know what some options are for accommodations.
35:00
Screen Reader: She said.
35:01
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: My clock is starting to wind down.
35:03
But, you know, here comes a very important question for you.
35:08
I want to talk about the intersection of your diplomatic life and your chess life.
35:18
You are a six time US blind chess champion, and you represented the United States
35:28
at the World Blind Championships.
35:31
Wow. How did chess first enter your life and what kept you committed to it,
35:41
even while juggling a demanding career and a family?
35:49
Alex Barrasso: So it started for me when I was 11 or 12.
35:53
Oh my God, I was at a friend's birthday party.
35:56
We were outside tossing some basketballs around,
36:00
and all of a sudden everyone just decided they were going in to play chess.
36:04
And I had no idea what this game was.
36:07
I had no idea whatsoever.
36:11
Chris's father realizing that I was lost, took out a board,
36:18
took me aside from the rest of the group, and let me feel the pieces.
36:22
Explain that there were two colors.
36:23
Explain the way the board is set up.
36:26
We put the pieces on. He walked me through a mock game,
36:30
and then he contacted the coach at my middle school and said,
36:38
look, Alex is interested.
36:40
Would you be able to find a way to get him an adaptive set and to have him participate in
36:46
the club, not compete on the team, but in the club?
36:51
And that coach. Alex? I don't know.
36:55
I have no idea where he is if he's still around.
36:58
Hopefully he is. But he did that.
37:00
He found a place for me to get an adapted set and let me join the club and you know,
37:05
treated me like any other player.
37:09
And then I ended up transferring after that year to a school with a nationally recognized
37:17
program you know, just, just just kept at it.
37:24
I really enjoyed it. I enjoy the challenge.
37:27
It's it's almost like solving a puzzle.
37:30
Yeah. And I have, you know, I've haven't always been able to spend as
37:39
much time as I want on it, but if I've.
37:42
If I have free time, that's where I want to spend it.
37:46
Yes. And and you know, I've been able to play not necessarily
37:51
competitively, but I've been able to play in every country that have been.
37:58
Had some some great sparring partners that I learned a lot from.
38:02
Even even when getting beat.
38:06
And it's just I don't know, I my wife Brenda sometimes says to me,
38:14
you work so hard, you really want to spend your weekend?
38:18
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Oh, yeah.
38:19
Alex Barrasso: Squeezing more out of your brain.
38:22
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah.
38:22
Alex Barrasso: And I do, I do. I really, really enjoy it.
38:26
It's It's a lot. There's there's a lot to learn from it.
38:32
Discipline, concentration.
38:35
Yes. So many things. I think we're going to talk about that, but.
38:39
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I wish myself that I could spend more time playing chess.
38:44
And I know I keep promising myself I'm going to do it.
38:46
I'm going to do it. So maybe I will be inspired by what you're saying here and get
38:52
going on it, you know.
38:55
So yeah, it's I'm sorry.
38:57
Alex Barrasso: Go ahead.
38:57
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Go ahead.
38:59
Alex Barrasso: No, it's it's just it's just a fantastic game.
39:04
And it really is accessible to everybody.
39:08
And there are so many adaptive sets out there.
39:13
There are organizations and lots of countries.
39:15
We've got the US Blind Chess Association in the US.
39:20
I know there's some similar entity in Canada.
39:23
You've got the UK BCA as well.
39:29
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right, right.
39:32
Alex Barrasso: And you know, here in the US, we're some of the things that the USBC is
39:38
doing is trying to get younger players involved.
39:41
So we're we have a program right now where we're teaching students at the Saint Joseph
39:47
School for the blind. We're teaching them virtually. We've provided them with some
39:50
sets. Oh, nice. So it's just it's great to be able to to get other people
40:00
interested and hopefully they will get as much from it as as as I have.
40:08
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Good. I want to squeeze in this question.
40:13
Many of us who are blind or visually impaired discover that certain activities give us
40:21
confidence and community.
40:25
What has chess given you emotionally and socially,
40:32
and how has it influenced the way you think and make decisions as a diplomat and as a
40:41
leader?
40:44
Alex Barrasso: I think one of the keys influences is is on decision making.
40:51
I mean, whether it's a chess game or professional issue,
40:55
you know, we can always spend more time making decisions.
41:01
It doesn't necessarily mean we're going to make a different decision,
41:05
or maybe not even a better decision.
41:08
And so at a certain point, you know, you have to be comfortable with
41:11
ambiguity, right. Because you're never going to almost never going to have all the
41:15
information you want.
41:17
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: To know.
41:17
Alex Barrasso: Before making a decision.
41:19
And, and I think as a result of playing chess,
41:24
I've probably gotten more comfortable with that ambiguity professionally.
41:28
You just have to make a decision.
41:30
And, you know, I heard a couple of mentors say,
41:34
well, don't don't open an email twice.
41:36
You know, don't spend more, more than this amount of time on this.
41:41
And I think Yeah, I mean, you just you have to get comfortable with
41:51
with making decisions when you don't have all the information you want.
41:54
So that's, that's in terms of contribution to my professional life,
42:00
I think that's that's the big one.
42:03
Socially, in terms of community.
42:07
It's a great conversation starter.
42:11
You know, we we got in Saudi Arabia, we had pizza nights at the embassy once a
42:17
week, and we managed to tie chess and pizza night together.
42:21
And we had you know, we had kids coming in just to,
42:25
just to play. And maybe they wouldn't sit for more than ten minutes at a time,
42:29
but they they'd come back in and continue those games.
42:35
And, you know, we, we got a few sets that we left with the employee association.
42:45
You know, and I've just I've had a chance to play,
42:48
as I said, in every country that I've been.
42:51
And it's you know, it's a great way to meet people.
42:55
Yes.
42:56
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yes.
42:57
Alex Barrasso: And just just connect over something that's not professional.
43:02
I mean and in terms of emotions, I think my mom tells me I used to get very
43:12
upset about losses, and I would sulk, and I would let the,
43:17
you know, the loss be a factor in how I played my next game.
43:23
I don't think I do that quite as much now.
43:27
You learn to control it.
43:28
You learn to move on, learn from the mistake,
43:32
and hopefully don't make the same mistake again.
43:38
So yeah, I think I think those are a couple of the highlights.
43:43
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Now, the clock is telling me that we don't have much time.
43:46
But, Alex, give us some final words of wisdom before we close our podcast.
43:54
What can you tell our listeners?
43:55
What message of inspiration or motivation do you have?
44:00
Is it reach for the sky?
44:02
Don't be afraid. Go out there.
44:05
Tell us what your personal messages.
44:10
Alex Barrasso: I would say do not be afraid.
44:15
Pursue your your ambitions.
44:19
Make sure that you find the allies.
44:21
Because let me tell you, there are going to be plenty of detractors
44:24
out there. The allies are also out there, but you've got to find them.
44:28
They don't necessarily find you.
44:30
Right. So find them and lean on them and tell them what you need and tell them why you need
44:38
it. And those who really want to help will listen to that and will act on it.
44:46
And I would also say take care of yourself physically.
44:51
Mentally, I'm not doing as much of that as I should right now.
44:54
But it's incredibly important.
44:56
Just just find something that you like to do,
44:58
whether it's swimming, bike riding, going to the gym,
45:02
whatever. Find that something and do it regularly.
45:05
Keep yourself in shape.
45:08
And and just just be vocal, as assertive without being demanding about
45:16
what it is. You need to succeed in whatever role you're in,
45:19
whether it's high school, whether it's college,
45:22
whether it's professional.
45:24
Otherwise, just speak up.
45:27
And the and the allies who who want you to succeed will will respond to that.
45:32
And and in a positive way.
45:37
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Alex, I'd like to thank you so much for this interview.
45:40
I've learned so much about the diplomatic service.
45:42
I've learned, you know, I think I'm not alone in saying that,
45:46
you know, we travel the same road.
45:48
And for a blind or sight impaired person, it's it's not easy,
45:55
but it's doable. So thank you so much for this interview.
46:02
Alex Barrasso: Donna, thank you so much. I really appreciate the opportunity.
46:05
And I hope this was useful for your listeners and look forward to connecting offline.
46:11
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I think it will be useful, inspirational, motivational.
46:15
And we will connect offline.
46:17
And I want to thank you again, Alex.
46:19
Thank you very, very much.
46:20
Alex Barrasso: Thank you. Take care.
46:22
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Take care now. Bye bye.
46:26
Podcast Commentator: Donna wants to hear from you and invites you to write to her at Donna at gmail.com.
46:32
Until next time.