Latest / Ruining the Workplace Podcast / S2 E2 Mary Anning Ruins Dinosaurs
Transcript
- Jaden: I'm Jaden Danielle: and I'm Danielle. Jaden: and this is the Ruining the Workplace podcast. Hello. Danielle: Hello, we're back. Jaden: We are back. Hi Danielle. Good. How are you? Danielle: Hi Jaden, how's it going? I am great. It was my birthday recently, so thank Jaden: happy birthday. Danielle: you. I'm still feeling celebratory. I love birthdays. I love my birthday. I love Jaden: They're the only real holiday, if you ask me. Danielle: whoa. Jaden: Well okay, I understand how I may have just crossed a line with you specifically just now. Danielle: Wow. Personally, yeah. wow. Just well, you know, maybe it's fine because my second favorite holiday is Jesus' birthday. So I guess if you celebrate, in that way. So yes, birthdays are the best and the only real holiday. That's fair. Jaden: See, just prove my point. First you were like, hey, and then you were like, yeah, okay. Danielle: Like, well, actually yes. Okay. Yeah. And then you could you know, maybe you say like Halloween is like pumpkins' birthdays or like witches' birthdays. Jaden: You know what? Halloween is the birth of well, is it the birth? Well, it's the crossing over of the spirits to the other side. So I guess technically it's some sort of a birthday, kind of. I love Halloween. Mm-hmm. Ooh. Danielle: Right. It's like a rebirth, yeah. Like a rebirth day. I do too. It's very fun. We have all of our spooky stuff up in our house. I'm gonna do the lawn decorations, I think, this weekend. So mm-hmm. Yeah. Super fun. Yeah. Jaden: yes. awesome. Nice. I've I've not gotten much spooky stuff done yet. I did make a nice wreath a spoopy wreath. It's so pretty. It's like romantic gothic But Danielle: You did. It's it's like spoopy, but like sexy. Yeah, yeah. I love it. Jaden: Well, and it's funny too, 'cause my mom and I were like at the craft store and we just both gravitated to like the gothic flowers. We were like, black and red and darkness, let's do it. So I don't know where I get that. yes, I do. It was just here. Yep. But Danielle: So dramatic. No. It just showed up one day. my gosh. Jaden: yeah. So, I I always like to kind of not really engage too much in decorating this season because I'll come home one day and the husband and the teen will have like done it all. Like that's what I yeah, because she's like, my God, we have to get it done before everyone else. Danielle: Yeah. love How's your book going? Jaden: I finished it. I'm very happy to Danielle: You finished it. Yeah. Jaden: say I finished it. And it was a really great ending. I was just like, Danielle: Mm. Jaden: wow, we took a turn and that was great. So I'm excited to talk about that in one of our upcoming episodes because it's definitely Danielle: Yes. Jaden: worth kind of like going into some of the themes of like the women of the time and having to battle the things that they went through and then the come uppance that Anne has and just the way that it all turns out is so great and it makes me wish that it had happened that way. Cause it's like, Danielle: If only. Jaden: yeah, it's just a nice piece of fiction, unfortunately. But yeah. How about you? Danielle: I am also excited to talk about my book in a future episode. I told you outside of the pod, I don't think I'm gonna finish this. I feel like I'm kind of over it. And surprise! I finished it. Jaden: Ha ha Danielle: and and I'm glad that I did because so it's structured, you know, on three different women Jaden: Mm. Danielle: and I made it through the first two. And it was interesting. I found the middle lady like maybe my least favorite, but Jaden: Mm. Danielle: I was like, I don't know if I need more of this style of writing Jaden: Ha Danielle: I don't know. I was just kinda like, yeah, maybe I'm done. But then I started Jaden: Yeah. Danielle: listening and the third story was maybe my favorite. It was so interesting. And I'm like, thank God I I like powered through. So and Jaden: Yeah. Danielle: it yeah, it was like maybe the most enjoyable story, was the third one. So I'm really glad. I was very Jaden: that's great. Danielle: surprised because I thought for sure it was not gonna do it. I'm like, my book list is just way too long. I don't have the energy to read this anymore or listen to it. But Jaden: Hmm, yeah. Danielle: I finished it, it was great. I'm excited to talk about it. Yeah. Yes. Jaden: Nice. Excellent. Well, welcome back to Ruining the Workplace. We are on episode two of season two. Wow, wow, wow. How exciting. And as Danielle: Yes. Mm-hmm. Buckle up. Are we ready? Jaden: you kind of alluded to, I think we're gonna maybe talk do some like, you know, more fun things this season. So we're gonna have the book Danielle: Yeah. Jaden: club and that's exciting. But today I think we're gonna get Write to some lady. Some lady. Yeah. Danielle: Some some lady. Are you ready? Okay, so to start us off today, I have a little bit of a pop quiz. Jaden: Ooh. Danielle: Yes, so Jaden, Jaden: Yes. Danielle: dinosaurs, hot or not? Jaden: Ha ha ha Well, you know what's funny about dinosaurs is my daughter bedazzled a dinosaur phone case for me. So I'm looking at a a lot of dinosaur dinosaur dinosaurs right now. So I kinda love them. Shout out to Donosaur. What's up, Don? Another Danielle: Don Shout out to Donnosaur. No shit. Jaden: shout out from Don. Don and Jessasaur. Okay. Hot Danielle: Amazing. I love that. Jaden: or not, I would say hot sometimes, not always. Danielle: not always, but okay. Interesting. Jaden: Ha ha ha Danielle: Given that like a meteor literally burnt the earth, I would say they're always hot, but no Jaden: Okay, always hot. Danielle: no, I'm kidding. No, it's fine. my next question was gonna be to tell me about your experience with them, but not but not like how often do you encounter dinosaurs? Jaden: I if we're talking about old people then often and like my husband when it comes to technology, okay. Danielle: Ooh. my god. You know what? I love that for him. I more and more I'm like, I wish I knew less. Yeah. Yeah. Jaden: Yeah. Sometimes I wish I was a member of the Luddites. Anyway. Danielle: Anyway. like wait, where was I gonna go from here? Jaden: Yeah. Danielle: It's funny because I went to a cave this weekend and Jaden: Ooh. Danielle: they were talking about dinosaur dinosaurs. like fossils and things that were found in this area. And I was like, Jaden: Mm. Danielle: it's perfect that I'm doing this episode this week. It's all it's all meant to be. Anyway, Jaden: I love that. Mm-hmm. Danielle: so welcome to Jurassic Park. Today Jaden: Ooh. Danielle: we're going to talk about someone that the Natural History Museum calls the unsung hero of fossil discovery. She definitely thought dinos were hot. Her name is Mary Anning. she was born in 1799 in Lyme Regis it's in Southwest England. The region is known as the Jurassic Coast. So it's a lot of cliffsides into the sea. as a side note, there is apparently a company that exists today that hosts dinosaur tours. And I'm very interested. They go to the region, you get to hike along the cliffs and like kind of retrace some of the things Jaden: that's cool. Danielle: that Marianne did. Yeah, it looks very cool. I'm like, no, this would be a very fun vacation. Anyway. The region is made up of cliffs, as I'd mentioned, along the English Channel, and it's home to marine fossil beds. So there's a ton of fossils in the area. they often will show up after, water has washed away parts of the cliff or there's mudslides. Around seventeen ninety two, and this is before Mary's birth, the French Revolutionary War made travel to the greater continent of Europe dangerous, So Lime Ray just became a very popular seaside resort. It's around this time that it started to become really, really common and popular for locals to supplement their income by finding and selling fossils. And this is what her family did. So her dad was a cabinet maker and an Upholsterer and a part-time fossil hunter. So he would Jaden: Wow. Danielle: yeah, he was a busy guy. He would search the cliffside for fossils and then sell them to tourists in town. It was a pretty good side hustle, and in the late 18th and 19th centuries, it was considered actually quite cool or in vogue for the time. And as, you know, more folks got into it, the interest in geology and paleontology started to expand. Her dad often took Mary and her younger brother fossil hunting to help contribute to the family's income. So she started when she was just six years old. Her family is what is considered congregationalists, which are independent religious dissenters. So at the time, the Church of England was, you know, the church. It was the religion that you followed. Congregationalists Jaden: Right. Danielle: did not follow the Church of England. And this is an important note. And the only reason I bring it up is because Congregationalist doctrine emphasized the importance of education for the poor. So yeah, isn't that Jaden: That's cool. Danielle: I know. I was like, that's really cool. So Mary was Jaden: Mm-hmm. Danielle: a kind of working class woman. So naturally she would have little to no education. She did have some limited education because she was able to attend Sunday school where she learned to read and write. So if they weren't congregationalists, she might not have been able to do some of the great work that she ended up doing later on. So she's six years old. Jaden: Mm-hmm. Danielle: She's climbing these cliffs with her dad and with her brother to look for fossils. In 1810, her dad dies. Her brother Jaden: no. Danielle: steps up to take over the upholstery and cabinet business, and her mother encourages Mary to keep finding fossils to sell. Jaden: Nice. Danielle: Yeah, she's staying busy. Shh. You know what? I don't know. No, Jaden: Wait, how old is her brother at this time? Do we know? Huh. Danielle: I'm not sure. I think he's a little bit older than her. So. Around this time sh yeah. Jaden: I hope so. Danielle: She's eleven right now, so like he might be thirteen or fourteen. I don't know. that's basically an adult in that time period, Jaden: Okay. Okay. he is a businessman for sure. Mm-hmm. Danielle: right? Yeah, you are a grown man, it's time to go sell some furniture coverings and cabinets. Yeah. Jaden: Yes. Danielle: So twelve year old Mary is out there s you know, still looking for fossils. when she's twelve in eighteen eleven, her brother, he's still coming with her sometimes, digs up a four foot Ichthasar skull. Jaden: Mmm, well done. Danielle: it's important to remind us that these are not like Jurassic Park style dinosaurs, right? Well they're not digging at like T-Rexes and raptors and things like that. It's marine fossils, so it's largely, you know, swimming animals and things like that. but Jaden: Mm-hmm. Mm. Okay. Danielle: still very cool. I mean, a four foot skull is pretty huge. Like, what would Jaden: Yeah. Danielle: you do if you were just out and like you just stumble upon this like crazy looking skull? Or you're like out. I don't know. Just on a hike, you know? Just hiking. Jaden: Just taking around. Danielle: Like when we hiked Mamima Falls and we s what if we saw something sticking out of the rock, you know? Jaden: Yeah sorry. yeah. He says just this the natural ability of you to say that is awesome. Okay. Danielle: Mm. It's a hard word, I know. I know. Jaden: W you know, I I that would be so I unexpected and like random. I don't know how I would react. I'd probably be like, that's just a big ass rock or it's fake or somebody's screwing around. You know what I mean? Like, I Danielle: Right. Yeah. Jaden: don't know that I would take it seriously immediately. Danielle: Yeah. Well, I think it's interesting too because a lot of what typically what they're finding and what other people find are like smaller things, you know, like the little curly things or whatever. Jaden: Hmm. Yeah. Danielle: You might find a bone here and there, but this is significant because it's so large. You're not Jaden: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Danielle: just selling that to a tourist to put in their curio cabinet, you know. So yeah, it would be pretty Jaden: Right. Mm-hmm. Danielle: wild, I think. And a few months Jaden: Mm-hmm. Danielle: later. Mary finds the rest of the skeleton, which turned Jaden: Ooh. Danielle: out to be over five yards long. Yeah, Jaden: Whoa. Danielle: so you have a four foot head and then just this huge body. So they start to build some notoriety after this. They have, you know, people know them as fossil sellers about town But then a lord, one Henry Host Henley of Sandringham House paid Jaden: Hmm. Danielle: the family 23 pounds for the skeleton. He then sold it to a collector who displayed it in London. So it wasn't kept in like a private home. I mean, maybe it was, but he let people come in and see it. Jaden: Hm. Danielle: This fossil generated a lot of publicity and awareness about prehistoric creatures and how old the earth really was. So you know, people were s just now starting to figure out like the earth has been around for a long time. We're not the first things that, were here. People originally thought it was a fossilized crocodile though. They didn't really think of it as a dinosaur necessarily. They're like, no, that's that's a crocodile, okay. It wasn't until eighteen twenty, which is about nine years later, that it was recognized as an extinct marine reptile. Mm-hmm. So it's still Jaden: Does it look really similar to like an alligator or a crocodile? Like, mmm. Danielle: It does. It looks pretty similar. Yeah. So it's not like those dum dums, they didn't know. It's like Jaden: Ha ha ha. Danielle: you know what you know, you know. They don't have crocodiles in England. So like Yes, exactly. It's very important. Jaden: Right. Co context. Mm. Danielle: So So that was kind of her first big discovery. She's she's 12, you know, pretty young doing this, selling this to that lord and starting to gain some recognition. A Jaden: Yeah. Danielle: few a few years later in 1823, she becomes the first person to discover a complete skeleton of a Pleiosaurus. And it was such a strange-looking specimen that word quickly spread that it was fake, that it wasn't. a dinosaur that it was completely fabricated. In fact, this man, George's Cuvier, who is the founder of Paleontology Review. So he's like a big name in paleontology at the time, reviews her sketches, So she makes these sketches of what she finds and she sends them around to people and stuff. and he reviews her sketches and also thinks it's either a fake, a mistake Or a combination of two different creatures put together. Yeah. And it becomes such a hot topic of discussion that a special meeting was scheduled for the Geological Society of London to discuss her sketches. Jaden: love how they're like, this is probably bullshit, but let's actually have a super official meeting about it just to make sure. Yeah. Danielle: Right. But let's talk about it. But guess who didn't even get invited to the meeting? Jaden: was it Mary. Danielle: know. I called her she didn't even get an invite. So it's all these dudes chatting about whether her stuff was fake or whether it was real. Jaden: Mm. Danielle: Additional researchers, and I don't know, I wasn't able to find much about these other people, but additional researchers sent more sketches to Cuvier and assured him that it was real. Jaden: Huh. Danielle: So she had some backup, I guess. But still, all of this is decided without her input beyond her initial sketches, right? And some of these people Jaden: Of course. Danielle: know who she is. They may have purchased other fossils from her. Like she becomes, she goes on, and I'll talk about this a little bit more later, but she goes on to become pretty well known by the scientists and by fossil collectors of the time and in that community as someone who can chat with them. Like hold Hold a solid scientific conversation with them. Jaden: Like she knows her staff. Danielle: She knows her stuff, right? She's an expert. And because she, you know, has learned to read and write, she's able to consume other materials, like other science periodicals and and information to help her continue to kind of hone her craft and get better and Jaden: Mm. Danielle: to learn. She's not just, well, I found this cool thing. I drew Jaden: Right. Danielle: a picture of it, you know. Jaden: Mm-hmm. Danielle: So she goes on to discover many other skeletons and fossils, and she's continuing to sell her finds, and she's carving out a living for herself, and she's gaining more notoriety. as part of her kind of self-taught nature, she teaches herself anatomy and would read as much as she could to better understand the anatomy of the fossils that she's finding. So she's reading all this scientific literature, she's dissecting fish to get a better understanding of how. The fossils might fit together as she's finding things, right? Because they're marine animals, so it's not a wild deviation of, you know, the bones of a fish might lay out similar to the bones of a marine dinosaur. Jaden: Yeah, okay. Danielle: And then eighteen twenty six, she's twenty-seven years old and she's saved enough money to buy a house with a storefront window. I know, she's really coming up in the world. So she opened Jaden: I just love her forethought of like, you know, a museum style window in this house would be perfect. That's that's kind of fascinating. Danielle: Right? I know. I know, isn't that great? I'm like, what I mean, I guess at the time a lot of people probably ran their businesses like out of their homes, but to have Jaden: Mm-hmm. Danielle: that specific like I need a display window and a bedroom in the back. Like I Jaden: Right, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Danielle: don't know. So this is when she opens Annings Fossil Depot, which sounds So cool. And like you might take a train there. Jaden: Mm-hmm. Danielle: and this is where many geologists and fossil collectors across Europe would come to visit her and purchase different fossils. there's anecdotes from some royalty and very, high up in society people who come and are impressed with what she has available and how smart and articulate she is. Like all these really high society people are coming to her. to add to their collections, to talk science, to learn from her. But she was still treated as an outsider by the scientific community. Jaden: Well, she is a woman. So Danielle: Exactly. So remember that Geological Society of London meeting that happened about her work that did not include Jaden: Yes. Danielle: her, right? They didn't allow any women to become members or even to attend meetings as guests. So even if someone had invited her, like, hey, we're talking about your thing, you should be there, she wouldn't have been let in because she's a lady. Jaden: Yes. Danielle: I know. And the people that she often sold her specimens to, like the scientists and geologists of the age. Would publish s scientific descriptions. Like they would publish reports based on the fossils that they purchased from her, but they would never mention her in any of their documents. Not even a hat tip. Right. No credit. Right. No credit Jaden: No credit. No credit where credit's due. Danielle: at all. It's noted that this was and it's not surprising, but this was super common among working class folks in general. Like working class people were often the ones out looking for fossils. And people would never credit. It's it's very common for a wealthy aristocrat to be like, look at this cool fossil that I found. And now I'm going to tell you all about. Jaden: Right. But I'm not gonna tell you how or why or n any of those things. yeah, yeah. Danielle: Right. Right. None of that. Yeah. And they would continue to come back to purchase fossils from her. And like I said, talk shop. Like they're discussing very scientific topics with Mary. They are getting into the anatomy and the classification. Like she's written to scientific publications to correct them on how they're classifying certain fossils. She's, you know, educating her customers. on what family different dinosaurs might have belonged to. But they're not acknowledging any of that. There's letters between different aristocrats that will call her out of like, my gosh, she was such a great person to talk to. she gave me so much information. But that never shows up in the research or in the publications beyond just these letters. Jaden: She's just just like continuous afterthought. Ugh. Danielle: Exactly. Yeah. And it ultimately, I mean, it hurts her in many ways. But one of the things is that this is Anne's primary business is selling these fossils, right? This is how she's really supporting herself. And there comes a point where, you know, funds are running a little dry. She's made a lot of friends in the scientific community. They're just not giving her credit where she deserves it, but they are supporting her in other ways. And one of those ways is that, One of her customer friends, Henry De Labèche, commissioned some portraits based on work that she had drawn. So there's some pictorial representations of prehistoric life called Duria Antiquar. I'm probably saying that wrong. but he I know, I'm like, my god, thank you Jaden: You got all the good words today. Danielle: myself. Anyway, he commissioned this painting, this artistic rendering based on her sketches and her scientific knowledge and he sold those to raise money for her. so he used that to support her financially when the fossil business was maybe having a slow time or things like that. So she was getting some help, but it's still like, put my name on your fucking paper. You know, like call me out. Let me into the club. Jaden: Right. Danielle: in 1847, at 47 years old, she died of breast cancer. She was still in some financial Jaden: No Danielle: strain. Yeah. She had incredible scientific discoveries. She's now being recognized today. Like if you go to many history museums or different sites, you'll see that she is credited as discovering these different things or really being a front runner in early paleontology work. But at the time, she wasn't getting any of the credit, but she was heavily, heavily involved in things. And that's the story. I know Jaden: Always gotta die to get your credit. Danielle: it, right? And that's the story of Mary Anning. she did some really cool Jurassic Park type shit. Didn't get any credit for it. And now we see what a baddie she was. She is a baddie. I know. And Jaden: Is a baddie. my gosh. I love that. I I want to see some of her drawings. Danielle: Yeah, it's it's pretty cool. And like, I don't have any handy. what's really interesting to me is to think about the work that she was doing and the clothing that she had to wear. There's a yeah, there's like a painting of her in this big Jaden: Mm, yeah. The big dresses and all that. Mm-hmm. Danielle: dress with her basket and and the like the Jaden: I think I'm looking at it. I just looked her up. Danielle: It's crazy. I'm like, so wait, she's like traversing Jaden: Yeah. Danielle: these muddy cliffs in this long dress and like Jaden: I mean, that's just one of her many talents. Danielle: Y'all. know, I know. Jaden: so I as I mentioned, I just looked her up because I wanted to find an image and I noticed something, and I'm wondering if you had caught this as you were doing your research. So she was 15 months old when she survived a lightning strike. And it's Danielle: Yes. I did see that. Jaden: it's so funny because The family is like, well, the shock of the lightning really turned her from a sickly baby into a lively, brilliant child. Danielle: Yes. Yeah. Very weird. I did see that Jaden: That's amazing. Danielle: and I was like, I don't know what to do with this information. I'm glad you brought it up because Jaden: It's just a funny little factoid. Uh-huh. Yeah, well, she's magical and smart. Danielle: Yeah. She really is. it's always so frustrating to think about All of the the credit that she didn't get, you know. Jaden: Yeah, and like the intentional barriers that seem like put Danielle: Yes. Jaden: up just because we're n yes. I know. Danielle: Yeah. And like the clear positive contributions and what even sounds like fairly unanimous appreciation of her and yet, you know. Jaden: Right. Yeah. And mhm. Yeah. And I I wonder too, like in the case of this Lord Henry something. Danielle: Yes. Jaden: this was something I reflected on when I was reading the Anne Boleyn book, which was a lot of the the issues like that around you know, the women of it all seems to be heavily influenced by the fear of embarrassment when it comes to men. Like they don't want Danielle: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Jaden: to be upstage for any reason, especially by Danielle: Yeah. Jaden: what is perceived as a weaker, you know, either species, sex, whatever. And so Danielle: Mm-hmm. Jaden: I'm like, is that is this just another one of those cases where it's like it's so Danielle: yeah. Jaden: embarrassing for a man of that time to admit that Danielle: Mm-hmm. Jaden: he is not the originator of some fascinating or new information that it's like he has to claim it as his own, otherwise he'll be found out or something. And the Danielle: Yeah. Right. Yeah. Jaden: and the the the being found out that, you know, a woman could have been the one to have done this. Like it's just w too much for them to take. Danielle: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Jaden: And that's just like it doesn't, you know, obviously we don't s face that sort of same thing now, but I do think it comes up in ways where it's it's more subtle, but it still happens, you know. Danielle: Yes. I agree. I I don't know if the conscious like embarrassment is there as much anymore of like, gosh, a woman can't do this. But I do think subconsciously it's still like the redirecting from our ideas or our contributions or the straight up stealing, obviously. Jaden: Yeah, yes. Danielle: It still happens, what you know what I mean, whether it's conscious or not, like that is still happening. And it's very annoying. Jaden: Speaking of still happening, are there still fossils being found in this area? Do you know? I'd be curious. Danielle: Let's Google then. says yes people do still find plenty of good fossils on the beaches at Lyme Regis. It Jaden: It's also gorgeous there. Danielle: looks super pretty. I do wanna go. Here we go. I do want to take a big Jaden: ruining the workplace field trip. Mm-hmm. Danielle: Euro trip in twenty twenty seven. So maybe this we put this on there. Yeah. Jaden: Ooh. Maybe I'll do my redo and I'll meet you there. Danielle: That would be really great. I'm curious though, you know, one of the things I was thinking about, there's not a lot from her perspective around the frustration. Or I didn't see a lot. I shouldn't say there's not. But around her perspective on being so excluded. I know there was a note in one of the articles I read that she had frustration with it, but you know, Jaden: Mm. Danielle: what I was wondering as I was going through all this, is What would she want us to, pull into Jaden: Yeah. Danielle: our lives as we think about like the frustrations that might happen in the day to day or at work or whatever? You know, what can we learn from her to positively impact that? Jaden: Yeah, I think my immediate reaction to that is like pursue the cool shit. You know, like Danielle: Mm-hmm. Jaden: she it sounds to me, had like she was like, nah, barriers, mm, I'm just gonna keep doing this because it's fascinating. Danielle: Yeah. Jaden: I love it. screw all these people who don't wanna credit me, but I'm just gonna keep doing it anyway, and I'm gonna contribute as much as I possibly can because I don't know if she had conscious decision making when it came to contributions to the scientific community or Danielle: Mm-hmm. Jaden: if she was just like I I'm going for it. You know what I mean? So Danielle: Yeah, yeah. Jaden: I kinda love that because it just to me that's a indicator of like following one's dreams, passions, kind of no matter what Danielle: Mm-hmm. Jaden: But like I also appreciate the sort of following in the dad's, you know, Danielle: Mm-hmm. Jaden: footsteps a little bit too, because it was like, this is a tangible thing. This is s this is new. This is interesting. It's making the world smarter. And whether Danielle: Yeah. Jaden: or not she kind of recognized that at the time, I think that's really interesting. Danielle: For sure. Yeah. Well and I love that sh Jaden: What do you think? Danielle: well I I think I agree. Like the perseverance, I think is what she would, Jaden: Mm-hmm. Danielle: you know, want the takeaway to be of like, yes, it is frustrating. And also, do you care about this? How much do you care? Like it's okay to keep going even when people are closing doors, and Jaden: Mm-hmm. Danielle: locking you out. Like you could still go about it and like this was her business, Even if they didn't want to give her credit, she was making money off of them. Like, I don't know, like Jaden: Yeah. Danielle: she was supporting herself, This is also a thing that she was doing since she was six. You know, it's Jaden: Right. Yes. Danielle: it was a side hustle for her dad that became her life's work. Jaden: Mm-hmm. Danielle: So I think I think the takeaway is to just keep going and try to carve out your slice where you can. Yeah. You know, Jaden: Yes. Yes. I love that. Mm-hmm. Danielle: doing what you can and making the impact that you can. And like we we see, even in spite of, not being allowed to participate in the society meetings and stuff. She's still writing letters to publications and being like, you're wrong. It's this. and like Jaden: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Danielle: there's a confidence there too, I think, because she's a woman. She's self taught on a lot of this stuff. many of her peers, female peers, probably don't know how to read or write. So she's doing a lot of things that other people are not. So there has to be a confidence there too like, nope, I feel pretty good about what I'm doing. And I know I'm right and I know I'm doing the right thing. Jaden: Yes, yeah. Yeah, exactly. And again, I think that's where some of that foresight comes in. It's like, well, it may Danielle: Right. Jaden: not seem like this is th it may not matter right now, but this is going to matter in the future. And like Danielle: Mm-hmm. Jaden: I think that played out exactly like that too. And people but Danielle: Absolutely. Jaden: and pcause like the values back then were so different. 'Cause it's like people weren't celebrating Danielle: yeah. Jaden: it because of the scientific necessarily like Danielle: Right. Jaden: the people who are buying it and showing it off, a lot of those were just like e that's ego, right? Danielle: absolutely. It's like look at my sweet art collection. Jaden: Yeah, yeah. It's like I don't care about the impact on, you Danielle: Right. Jaden: know, the world. It's just like look at all the shit that I have. Danielle: Yeah. So yeah, love it. Mary Anning. We Jaden: Yeah. Yep. Love it. Mary Anning, we appreciate you. Danielle: do. Super cool. And I want to take a dinosaur tour. Jaden: I do too. I wanna go to the Jurassic coast and it sounds awesome. It does. Mm-hmm. Is this like Danielle: so beautiful. Like my gosh. Yeah. Jaden: one of those places too where you find something like a fossil but you gotta leave it there, otherwise you're like cursed? You know what I mean? Danielle: yeah, I wonder. Maybe. It's probably illegal. There's probably like, if Jaden: Yeah. I would feel weird taking it. I'd be like, Ooh, I don't know, I'm gonna leave it or Yeah. Danielle: nothing else, there's like a customs import rule. Like you can't just take our dirt. Like when I Jaden: Yeah, yes. Can't just take our dinosaur bones. Danielle: I went to Amsterdam a few years ago and I was like, my gosh, Jaden: Mm-hmm. Danielle: I'm gonna buy tulips to take home. And it was like No, actually, because you're in America, you're only allowed to buy tulips at certain times of the year. You can't take these home. And I was not there at Jaden: interesting. Danielle: the right time. Yeah, so they were like, Ooh, we can't sell you those. I'm like, what, but you're here in the market. Like everybody Yeah. Anyway. Jaden: Yeah, what are you doing? You're full of tourists. Well, so shall we flip over to our ruining workplace tip of the week? Danielle: Yes. Jaden: Okay, well, I c Danielle: Mm. Jaden: this was not planned, but it does tie in really nicely with Danielle: Hmm. Jaden: dinosaurs and being dinosaurs, particularly when it comes to technology. So my it's gonna be short and sweet. And really what I want to say and emphasize because I I don't know about you actually I do know about you. It it's driving us both crazy. I know nothing about you. Who are you? Who is this? Yeah Danielle: You don't know anything about me. Nobody knows. It's I'm in a new era anyway, so we're all still figuring it out. Jaden: That's true. We have new Danielle. Danielle: Yeah. Jaden: anyway I I just want to encourage everybody to just put down the AI Danielle: Mm. Jaden: and have a human conversation. If you have questions about something, if you need to learn Danielle: Yes. Jaden: more, talk to a person, talk to the people involved if you can. particularly like at work, talk to your teammates. Don't clot it up as your first step because I I think that we're kinda losing the plot here a little bit on human connection and if we if we allow this too much more, we're gonna be in places that we don't wanna be. So embrace your Luddite, embrace your dinosaur self and just talk to the people. Okay? Yeah. Yeah. Danielle: I love that. I love that so much. That's a really good one. Thank you for that. I do feel the same. You do know me. I stand corrected. Jaden: I do. Danielle: That was a good one. Jaden: Well I was. Yeah. So anyway, well, great, great. thank you for teaching us all about Mary Ann. Very interesting stuff. Danielle: Yeah. And thank you for such a wonderful tip. It's very actionable. I appreciate that. Love it. Woo! Bye. Jaden: It is. Well, until we talk next time. Well, see you later.