Latest / Calm Under Fire / PK Kelly

Transcript

PK Kelly · Calm Under Fire

• Col. John Boggs: Welcome back. Welcome to Calm Under Fire. I'm Colonel John Boggs. I'm the president of Fortitude Consulting, ⁓ leader, executive leadership development and leadership firm, executive coaching firm. Well, today I have John P.K. Kelly, who is a former Army Ranger who has continued to serve long after leaving the military in law enforcement, executive protection, and now is the founder of Orange Diamond. Orange Diamond is a consulting group and it focuses on homeland security, defense and consulting, and is focused on real world threats and public and private solutions. His work sits at the intersection of mission, leadership, and responsibility under pressure. Today, we're talking about what it means to keep serving when the uniform comes off and how leaders stay steady. when the stakes remain high. PK, welcome and thank you for being here. PK Kelley: I appreciate you having me. Thank you, Colonel. Col. John Boggs: PK, you left the Rangers, but not the mission. So what's changed and ⁓ what didn't change how you carry your responsibility? PK Kelley: Well, I think overall we, know, anybody that served in the military or served in law enforcement, you have that sense of, you know, mission above self already. Like it's, it's ingrained in you from the time you enter basic training and doesn't matter the service you enter, whether it's the Marine Corps, the army, the Navy, Coast Guard, all of it applies. Same thing with law enforcement and go through the academy. ⁓ That's ingrained in you that you're willing to put others above yourself and the mission above yourself. ⁓ the world, like from the time that I entered, you know, and even going back to the time that my mentors entered the service, the mission really hasn't changed, but the world's just become more complex. And so, ⁓ I don't think that for me, it's just been an evolving, you know, for the people that ⁓ of faith, ⁓ if you will, that I've certainly had doors. I tried to get out of it. I tried to escape that type of lifestyle partly because I thought it was like I wanted to have a different type of business and live the American dream, so to speak, with my father and live a slower paced life. one that's a bit more conducive to the family lifestyle. God clearly shut those doors for me. It just wasn't meant to be. And I know that I'm happy doing what I'm doing. I'm challenged doing what I'm doing. And I'm challenged, but yet I'm also not challenged, if that makes sense. I know that's kind of a confusing thing, but like there's God given. talents, but like when you enjoy something that you do every day, you're probably doing the right thing. and so, and if you're not, then, you know, there's other, like I tell everybody that works with me or for me that I want you to be happy doing what you're doing. I'm not a micromanager at all. And, ⁓ but that's by design. I don't want to be a micromanager and I don't have time for it. So, ⁓ I tell people that here's the mission. Here's the standards to reach. the mission and let them go. But that's kind of how things were done in special operations. And that's just how I tend to be. It worked for us, and so why not try to fix anything that's not broken? Col. John Boggs: I love that. works for us. You know, special operations, that requires a lot of clarity under stress. How do you recreate that clarity in civilian leadership, in the civilian leadership environments you find yourself in now? PK Kelley: ⁓ mean, I lean on, I truly, I lean on things that are like what we are, what are known as the, the five soft truce. the, the very, mean, there's five core tenants, if you will, that we really lean on. ⁓ like humans are more important than hardware. ⁓ quality is, ⁓ better than quantity. ⁓ special operations forces can't be mass produced. ⁓ competent special operations can't be created after emergencies occur. Like you have to prepare for that disaster before it happens, because if not, then you're in trouble. And then ⁓ all special operations require non-special operations assistance. So just because somebody's not in special operations doesn't mean that they're not valued or needed or whatever. They're part Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. PK Kelley: that they play is just important and just as critical. It's just they might not be on the front lines of whatever it is. So like look at ⁓ the most recent ⁓ special operations raid and probably the will go down in history as one of the most successful special operations raids in history, if not the most successful to date. was the raid to capture Maduro. ⁓ Well, somebody had to fuel those helicopters. Somebody had to do the safety checks on those helicopters. Somebody had to do the maintenance on all of those helicopters in order to make them flyable for that mission. Those people are just as important as the operators that carried out the mission itself. Otherwise, the mission doesn't happen. ⁓ because the same people can't, you can't be competent in all things. It's impossible. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Was there a moment in time when you realized that the pressures are going to be a little bit different in what you're doing now versus what you did before? Or are they different? PK Kelley: ⁓ they're Yes and no. And I say that because when you're on the ground in a foreign country, there's people's lives at risk. When you're doing what we're doing now, there's people's lives at risk. I would say the stakes are higher now just because if you were to look at a tiered system of how I rank, I value all human life, but I value American citizens over other people. And that's just by nature of of being an American and ⁓ nature being a human being, you're always going to value your own countrymen over others, just by nature. like what we're doing now and, and national and Homeland security is the stakes are higher, but the, but the stakes have always been high in a sense, but I value like going back to the Afghan withdrawal. I valued every single life that was put in our hands to get out of the country then. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. PK Kelley: And during ⁓ that operation, just as much as we do now, it's just in a different manner. Because now, just as they were unarmed, unprotected civilians that couldn't protect themselves, the American citizens today are in the same boat. And it's just what I, and to really tie that up, the stakes are higher because if we have another attack on US soil, We're going back to war and the next generation of warfighter is going to have to deal with the same aftermaths of war that I had to deal with and that I had the years of struggle with post my time in the military. I don't want that for like we're at a time where the guys that I served with and one of them that I'm very close to and his father was killed in Afghanistan and he spends a lot of time with me. He's getting ready to enter the military now. I don't want him as essentially like a son to me. I don't want him to go through the same things that me and his father went through the whole point of. And I think you or any other ⁓ officer or any other service member agree. Like we chose to serve and do what we did. So the people coming after us and our sons and daughters wouldn't have to. And so. Col. John Boggs: That's right. PK Kelley: For that, like, I don't want them to have to go through. Now, will I be proud of him if he serves? Absolutely. If that's his choice, for sure. But do I want him to go through the same things we went through post-9-11? No. Col. John Boggs: Yeah, yeah, well, you said it You know, nobody wants to, ⁓ it's like you don't want to leave anything undone. So no one has to come behind you ⁓ to ⁓ do again. that's absolutely superb. ⁓ PK Kelley: Right. Right. mean, I like I'm willing to bet that if we were to go back to the greatest generation of World War Two, the last thing they ever wanted to see was their sons and daughters go to Vietnam. And then it happened. Right. And and and so I think that there's a lot to be said for that. But like, I think that we my goal and part of what Our goal collectively to do in our mission is to change the way leaders think about the problem sets. We've been fighting and doing the same thing for 30, 40 years, trying to, it's, you have to change things up when you cut the head off of a snake and the snake can re regrow ahead faster than you can chop. It's time to change your tactics. And so. Why are we not doing? So a lot of what we're doing in the national and homeland security strategy, poor like side of things is how do we tackle this by not simply chopping the head off the snake? We've got to do something different. So. Leaders underestimate, in my opinion, by thinking that everything has to be top-down decision-making. Col. John Boggs: Mmm. Wow. PK Kelley: So. Col. John Boggs: Wow, I'm gonna agree with that. Holy smokes. Can you tell me more about that? PK Kelley: Yeah. So like, really, you know, I would even say that general McChrystal was really the one that brought this to light with team of teams and, and that type of stuff and really made JSOC what it is today and, and how They did a great job of doing what they did. that's like, my philosophy is based off of team of teams, but what I think it has to be taken to the next level. And what I mean by that is what we're seeing in Ukraine, what we're seeing in other parts of the world. Like if you do not have that frontline insight on a daily basis of what's happening and what can be innovated and what can be changed. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. PK Kelley: to make things happen faster and be able to adapt quickly. You can't be effective in today's environment if you can't adapt. It's just not possible. And you see this like, and I can use outside of military terms, I can use this in another analogy for this is probably the best at adapting. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. PK Kelley: And, and seeing success that a lot of people see in America is if you follow college sports, you, know who Nick Saban is and Nick Saban was probably the best at adapting. he saw what was coming. So we utilize intelligence to see what's coming ahead of us. And so we adapt and shift gears. And he was just the best at that in college football. And we have to be able to do that in national and Homeland security and say, all right. Col. John Boggs: ⁓ of course. PK Kelley: Well, or even in policing and I call it this, it's like this convergence of where policing, national and homeland security are all merging because the foreign state actors, the transnational criminal groups, the narco terrorist, the street gangs, they're all operating as one collective unit, essentially. Now, Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. PK Kelley: They're getting, they're very skilled at keeping transmissions and communication siloed and, and, and in their hierarchy and how they talk to people and all of that's very, very complex now, but they're all operating together. And so that makes our job very difficult. And so what we have to do is we have to have police on the front lines that pick up the smallest of details that needs to be logged somewhere. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. PK Kelley: And then that analysis or that intelligence has to be fused and analyzed from around the country because there's links that we're not picking up because ex-police department is not talking to a fusion center or to Homeland Security, but the same type of crime or something similar happened, say in Dallas, Texas, that happened in LA, but those things are linked, but nobody's putting the two and two together. And then you're seeing that with cross border different things. And I can go into it from that perspective, but like you have to be because of those things being so complex, you have to be able to adapt in today's environment from a business perspective, whether this is if you're in logistics or if you're in retail sales or you name it, you have to be able to adapt and utilize business intelligence. Col. John Boggs: Hmm. PK Kelley: or different things to see what's coming ahead of time to shift gears and be adaptable. But your people at the lowest levels of your business are going to be able to tell you that quicker than anybody else. Col. John Boggs: Well, you know, you're talking, sounds like there's a, particularly when you gave the instance about, you know, things happening in Texas that happen in other places. the data and trusting that data and who who put it in and How do you trust it? How do you know? I mean, it's it's or do you I mean I suspect there may be a little bit of ⁓ Well, this came from Los Angeles. So we don't trust it Do you find that is the case or this came from the FBI or this came from from Dallas, Texas? We're not going to trust it Can you speak to that? PK Kelley: Yeah. Yeah. You don't see as much of the term trust as you do. The other side of it, which is pride, pride gets in the way because they want to be the ones to make the bust or whatever. They want to be the ones to break open the case, whether that's an intelligence organization or that's a law enforcement organization. Instead of working together for collectively for the greater good, they will. pals and hold that information internally. So the FBI gets credit or HSI gets credit or, or the LAPD or Dallas PD gets the credit versus the county in the, Dallas PD working together, for instance, things of that nature happen on a daily basis where instead of work, those leaders should be working together and say, you know, your, your place. Your home is my home and vice versa. We're on the same team. think people often forget we're on the same team, we're, this is like, especially in the law enforcement side of things, these are, and you see it some in, in, the military or in, in special operations, but not nearly like you used to. I mean, we have friendly, the military is unique in the sense that we'll have friendly banter and jokes about how much we. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. PK Kelley: despise each other's units or whatever, but at the end of the day, we're there for each other. I can't tell you how many times we were the QRF for ⁓ many different SEAL team operations and they did the same for our operations. They were our QRF. so, ⁓ at the end of the day, we'll work together and we're good at it in the military. That is not true in law enforcement. They are not good at working together. And to the point that even Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. and Wow. PK Kelley: though you have like joint terrorism task forces where you'll have a collective of different people from different organizations or different police departments. Well, there's also a joint drug task force. Well, or there's a ATF task force. Well, the ATF, if there's drugs, there's almost always guns. that ATF task force and that drug task force aren't necessarily working together, even though they're working the same people. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. PK Kelley: in the same case, they're not going to necessarily work together because they both want to be the ones to break the case open. Like that happens so often, so often. Col. John Boggs: That sounds crazy. That sounds crazy, PK. PK Kelley: It is, it does. can, recently there was a, very recently there was a case ⁓ here in Texas that very similar type situation where it was a human trafficking unit and then ⁓ another specialized unit. One was with the police department, one was with the sheriff's department. Well, they were both working on the same exact house. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. PK Kelley: The only reason they found out that there wasn't going to be an opera. There was no deep confliction done. The other was planning to, to take down this, this house. The only reason deconfliction happened was cause a, a ⁓ private company that was working with both of those different told them that they were the deconflictor. Not because somebody planned it just by happenstance that they told them, Hey, well, you probably should know this, that this is about to happen. on this same house that you're looking at. And, nobody made the call and said, Hey, this is, this is going to happen on this date. You know, instead of working, that would have been fine if they would have worked together, but they didn't. And, and that type of stuff happens all the time. So how many man hours were wasted by one department because, and then the other one in when they could have worked together and probably finished the case sooner. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. PK Kelley: Right? so, but that happens all the time. Col. John Boggs: Where does leadership where's leadership at? I mean, what's the leadership behaviors that allow this sort of thing to go on? PK Kelley: Well, the problem, the problem that I see in, in what I'm really looking at strategically is like from, if you were to say, all right, like currently Pam Bondi is the, the highest law enforcement official in the country is the AG. Well, if you were to look at the, the rank and file below her, there is no, every state is siloed. They have their own attorney general. They have their own ⁓ head state trooper or state. ⁓ director of state police, so on and so forth. Well, there is no true chain of command in law enforcement across the nation because, ⁓ and policing, the only law enforcement officials in, in the country that are elected. ⁓ so most state attorney generals are elected, but then all county sheriffs are elected. But outside of that police department or police chiefs, they are appointed by mayors. They're hired by the mayor of the town generally. And if they don't agree with the mayor, they leave. That's just what if politically, if things happen, that's so they're almost like political appointees for the individual towns. Well, I'm, I'm of the belief that in order to have this shared consciousness in this collective mission and different things, you have to create the structure in order for that to happen. And where you have. like a regional attorney general, like, they do have this to a certain extent, but there's no, underneath the, the AG, they have it on their side, but they, what they don't have is they don't have the law enforcement side attached to it. So there's no shared consciousness and shared collective on the law enforcement side to where if something happens in, in Oklahoma. let's, I'm just going to save, say, break it down real simply. If you were to put Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas and Louisiana in one, let's call it one region, ⁓ you know, we'll call it the Texas, Texas region. ⁓ and something a massive tornado hits Oklahoma, not uncommon. Well, now we have FEMA. You could follow the FEMA model, actually, just to make it simple. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. PK Kelley: where they already have the regions, but well, we have a large number of police officers here in Texas. Well, instead of Oklahoma having to bear all of that stress and those local officers having to bear all of that stress of manning their day-to-day policing activities, plus the overtime, if you had a regional, ⁓ you had a regional hierarchy like that, a regional commander could say, we're gonna pull, there's, Col. John Boggs: Thanks. PK Kelley: There's over 900 agencies in the state of Texas. We're going to pull one person from each agency in this portion of Texas to send to Oklahoma and allow them to serve as officers to relieve some of the stress off of the officers in this region. they're there for collective security. They're not there to do pullover soccer mom for running a red light. You know what I mean? Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. PK Kelley: But like you have this very set thing that you're there to do and ⁓ but without that it would relieve the stress of the local officers and the burden of that. Same thing would happen like we're coming up to FIFA for hosting the World Cup. That type of thing needs to happen. You're going to have officers coming in anyway but who's really in charge? Like who like there's nobody's really talking about that side of it and Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. PK Kelley: You're going to have these people, but how are you really utilizing them? How are you relieving the stress off of Arlington PD where the primary event is going to be held or Dallas PD, where ⁓ they're having the world cup conference center and, and media center is going to be in also the fan zone at fair park in Dallas. How are you collectively taking the burden off of those police departments by bringing in these. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. PK Kelley: these people and not, because now if something does happen, how are you going to flex more people to that area? You're not going to be able to, it's going to be mess. That's when you then have to stretch the military thin with the National Guard or bring in other assets like that. Well, the National Guard is not meant to be a security force. That's not what they're designed to do. like that's, it's more about having Col. John Boggs: Yeah. PK Kelley: For me, it's about like, if you were to look at the tenants of, of team of teams and the shared consciousness, understanding the mission, that's where you receive buy-in and people don't get frustrated because they understand all of those things. Like they get it. It's, Hey, this is how we're going to do it. We have the shared mission, the shared consciousness. It takes a complex and complicated system and makes it simple. Col. John Boggs: I'm going to change horses on you just a little bit here because you also do work with veterans. And before I run out of time, I'd like to hear about that. mean, well, specifically, what kind of pressure do veterans face that most civilians don't? or they don't even see. Let's just put it that way. Pressures that veterans face that civilians don't see. PK Kelley: ⁓ I would say the big one is that sense of purpose. Col. John Boggs: Mm. PK Kelley: So you go from, and the biggest way veterans can get that in civilian world is to get out and get busy and serve others in the nonprofit space or things of that nature. If you're not doing that, you'll get fulfillment in that, you'll get camaraderie in that, and it will certainly help. ⁓ Because once, I I got out of the military, Col. John Boggs: So. PK Kelley: to have a family. Like I was, I felt like I was ready. Like I did not want to raise a family in the special operations ⁓ community. It's just not conducive for it. And then I learned that policing is not really conducive for it either. And so, you know, night shift and high-fiving your wife on the way out the door and that type of stuff is just not conducive for a family. It's really not. But I, I, I learned during that same timeframe that Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. PK Kelley: getting out and serving in the community in the nonprofit space and in speaking of forces, that's one of them that I spend a lot of time with is an equine therapy program. And ⁓ we have a veterans program and first responder program, but we also, the primary program is actually ⁓ kids with disabilities, whether that's cognitive or physical or both. So autism, things of that nature. Col. John Boggs: Okay. PK Kelley: we require that the veterans volunteer with the kids. And we do that because it subconsciously does it plays a trick on the veterans mind. they, they realized that, Hey, you know, I wrote, raised my right hand and I chose to go to war and chose to live that lifestyle. You know, we have a few Vietnam veterans. Those are the anomalies, I guess, if you will, because they did it, they were drafted. But outside of that, everybody else chose because we're all volunteer military. so, ⁓ but those kids, they were born with their disabilities. They didn't choose that life. so, but they, but they will certainly show you how to be happy, how to be joyful, how to, how to celebrate little wins in life. And so the veteran realizes that, ⁓ hey, if they can have these feelings and be happy about these things. Well, so can I. part of it's just kind of a unique bond and special thing because the kids look up to the veterans and the veterans are, it's almost like a purposeful accident, if you will. you, it's like magical when you see that these veterans start, that came in all smug and thought they were tough and didn't have any feelings or didn't think that they could show them. But next thing you know, they're smiling and joking and having a great time with these kids that are, they'll teach you more about life than anybody. yeah. Col. John Boggs: Yeah, ⁓ my gosh. PK, so what's the next chapter taught you about leadership and that maybe Ranger Battalion didn't? PK Kelley: ⁓ man. I would say, ⁓ Well, and really sobriety. recently, one of my mentors that I've met seven years ago, he passed away last week actually. So it's a good time to bring this up. But he was a Marine veteran from New York City and never thought that my Southern butt would ever have a mentor from the Bronx. he would tell you how it is. letting go of things that you can't control. So like if I've done every single thing that I could possibly do to 100 % of my abilities and I've put my all into it, then I can't let that, I can't let things that eat me up or I can't let those things eat me up that I can't control. And I think what I've told people over the past week is that if, if I wish politically that America would let go of the things that they can't control. Because if people understood that if you just go cast your vote, like what happened to the America that would keep their mouth shut, they'd go vote. And then if you wouldn't hear, know, sure people may be upset or whatever, like, what are you doing by putting yourself and your family in harm's way by protesting something that you can't control? Like you're not. You're not going to change the outcome by standing in the way. anything, you're just going to put yourself in, in more danger or your family in more danger or like you protesting or, or getting mouthy with people or cussing people out and treating people. And this is, I'm not selecting one side of the aisle or, or, or, or the other, both are guilty of this. so let go of what you can't control. Cast your vote. You know, Get upset, get mad about it. and you one our greatest military minds of ⁓ ⁓ I think books above me, can you see it? Yeah. Colin Powell's book book is right above me, but he, ⁓ one of his 13 of leadership is get mad and get over it. Like, so he. ⁓ Col. John Boggs: Yeah, yeah, ⁓ my. PK Kelley: You know, get, get upset, get mad and then get over it, move on. And, and so, you know, you can have your moment, but don't let your moment last a year, two years, whatever. Five minutes is enough. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Get over it. That's it. That's it. Get over it. ⁓ my gosh. ⁓ my gosh. Well, PK, ⁓ when you think about legacy, not operations so much, but legacy, what matters most to you now? PK Kelley: Yeah. ⁓ man. ⁓ For me, it's living a life of impact. So, you know, people won't remember how much money or what car you drive or things that you have or what house you live in. ⁓ They'll remember how you impacted them. And so you can either impact people positively or negatively. And so for me, that's it's about impact. And that's what the whole company is, is, is about is, is how do we create positive impact for our community, for our state, for our nation, and, and hopefully, ⁓ you know, in select places world worldwide. Col. John Boggs: Yeah, great. I love that. It's about impact. So, PK, for leaders out there or organizations that are listening who are serious about homeland security, mission execution, or supporting veterans in transition, what's the best way for them to connect with you or learn more about you and your work? PK Kelley: I would say ⁓ I'm really active on LinkedIn. So ⁓ John and PK Kelly on LinkedIn. Usually I'm in a cowboy hat and a sport coat. So today's kind of unusual. ⁓ But ⁓ LinkedIn is a great place to connect with me. And then from there, I have my email list and my info or my email is listed in my contact info on LinkedIn as well as have like a link tree. And then it shows all the partners and nonprofit stuff as well as my email on that link. So that's the best way to do it. Col. John Boggs: Perfect. Wow. So for the folks that are listening, if you want to reach out to PK, you find him on LinkedIn, JohnPKKelly. You'll find him there. ⁓ PK, I can't thank you enough. I really loved your comment about the legacy, its impact. ⁓ that, think, well, for sure you're doing that. And I appreciate everything you're doing for us veterans. And what you're doing, you're still in the fight, brother. You're still there. You're still there doing it. And that's truly amazing. Just that's truly amazing all in and of itself. So for everyone out there listening, thank you very much. I'll see you next time. And PK, thank you so much, brother. I greatly appreciate it. All right. Out here, everyone. PK Kelley: appreciate it, Colonel. Thank you.