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13: Keeping Pace with God in the Time of AI · Finding God at Work

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  (Transcribed by TurboScribe. Go Unlimited to remove this message.) Hi, I'm Chris.
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  This is Finding God at Work.
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  Just a reminder that Finding God at Work
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  isn't just a podcast, it's also an online
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  course.
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  Check it out at findinggodatwork.org.
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  Our current series is A Mysterious Business, bringing
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  ministry and marketplace wisdom together.
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  Have you ever had to slow down to
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  keep pace with someone else?
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  I have this time in my memory that
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  kind of haunts me because I didn't slow
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  down.
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  This was when I was doing college ministry
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  at the University of Illinois at Chicago.
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  I spent all day on my feet walking
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  around one campus building in particular, but sometimes
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  going to other buildings as well.
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  And so I sometimes would be running between
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  the buildings, you know, because I needed to
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  make it from one Bible study to another
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  Bible study or from an appointment with a
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  student to a staff meeting.
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  It was a very active, fast moving pace
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  for my day.
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  And there was another ministry on campus, there
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  are actually several other Christian ministries on campus,
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  and the staff from the different ministries kind
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  of got to know each other.
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  We would encourage each other, sometimes we would
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  pray together.
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  And there was this lady at one of
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  the other ministries, and she was a little
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  bit older.
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  She moved a little bit slower than I
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  did.
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  She wasn't the typical, like, having just gotten
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  out of college herself, college staff person.
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  She was in her middle years or even
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  older years, pouring into students who are much
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  younger than herself.
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  And she was walking through the doors of
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  this one building as I was on my
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  way to Bible study.
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  And she was walking a lot slower than
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  I was.
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  And I knew she was probably heading to
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  a Bible study in the same part of
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  the building that I was.
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  We weren't going to the same thing.
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  We weren't part of the same staff team,
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  but I knew she was probably heading the
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  same direction as me.
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  But I was in a rush, right?
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  I was running.
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  And she kind of looked at me and
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  realized, like, it would be polite for me
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  to slow down and walk with her.
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  But she was like, you go ahead.
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  And I was like, thanks.
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  And I just kind of sprinted on up
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  the stairs to go to my Bible study.
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  And that moment has stuck out to me
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  for a couple of reasons.
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  One, that she was so gracious as to
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  be like, you don't want to slow down
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  for me.
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  It's okay.
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  It's okay.
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  But two, why didn't I slow down?
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  Was I really going to have that problematic
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  of a day if I took long enough
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  to walk to Bible study rather than to
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  run to Bible study?
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  And it was kind of an expression of
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  my whole life.
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  I was always running from thing to thing.
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  And this is still my temptation, is to
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  move quickly and move without very much margin,
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  right?
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  You just ask Katie, like, I'll wait till
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  the very last minute, actually after the last
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  minute before leaving for an appointment, because I'm
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  just so optimistic that, you know, I'll catch
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  the green lights.
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  I'll get there on time.
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  I'm always moving quickly.
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  But when you're always moving quickly and you
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  don't slow down for other people, they feel
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  that, don't they?
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  And if you've ever been the slowpoke, you
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  know what this is like, too, when people
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  don't really make room for you.
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  They don't really slow down and stay at
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  your pace.
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  And isn't there something beautiful about slowing down
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  and staying at somebody else's pace?
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  This is something that I've had to relearn
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  and learn in a new way recently, because
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  I've been spending a lot of time with
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  my mother-in-law and she's had several
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  strokes.
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  And so she isn't really able to walk
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  anymore.
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  But even when she was walking a few
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  months ago, she would use a walker and
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  I would literally have to keep pace with
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  her when I was taking her to a
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  medical appointment or something like that.
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  And you just can't rush that.
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  Right.
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  It's not like I could be like, come
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  on, Mom, walk faster.
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  Like, no, no, no.
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  Like that would not be safe.
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  The point is caring for her.
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  I had to learn like, oh, this is
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  not about how fast Chris can go.
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  This is about meeting somebody else where they're
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  at with their real needs.
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  And I'm hopeful that through this experience, I'm
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  learning to kind of keep an eye out
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  for other people, regardless of how fast or
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  slow they're moving and and maybe take the
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  initiative to to slow down and meet people
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  at the pace that's good for them.
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  OK, what does this have to do with
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  business and faith in the workplace and the
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  insights that we can gain from the church?
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  Well, there is a pastor I really respect
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  who came out with a wonderful book just
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  this summer about AI.
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  And this book about AI has been so
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  helpful to me as I think through work
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  and what businesses are doing.
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  And it's just a great example of kind
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  of the wisdom of the church addressing something
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  that's relevant in the business world and in
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  other spheres of life as well.
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  And the name of this pastor is Pope
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  Leo the 14th.
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  So I am not a Roman Catholic, but
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  I am in my particular tradition, a reformed
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  Catholic.
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  So as an Anglican, I think of myself
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  as like a lowercase C Catholic, somebody who
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  draws on the Catholic history of the church,
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  like the universal history of the church, stretching
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  back even before the Reformation, while also embracing
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  the Reformation, that there were some insights there
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  about scripture, about faith in Jesus Christ that
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  were really important in what happened in the
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  in the 1500s in Europe.
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  But in in the Anglican tradition, we keep
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  some of those older tradition things.
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  And so there is a sense in which
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  I'm a Catholic.
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  I'm a reformed Catholic as an Anglican.
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  But that doesn't mean that I recognize the
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  pope in the same way that Roman Catholics
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  do.
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  But I find the pope to be a
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  helpful pastor and thinker.
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  Not every pope in history has been.
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  If you study church history, there have been
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  some real characters who have been in the
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  papal office.
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  But the current pope, Pope Leo the 14th,
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  is a really wise pastor who really loves
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  the scriptures and I think is very, very
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  prophetically speaking into this moment in history with
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  the development of A.I. So the book
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  that he wrote is actually called an encyclical
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  letter.
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  This is like a formal designation of certain
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  kind of papal teachings.
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  But it's basically a book of theology.
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  It's called Magnifica Humanitas or Magnificent Humanity on
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  Safeguarding the Human Person in the Time of
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  Artificial Intelligence.
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  And so what I want to do with
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  the rest of this episode and with the
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  next episode, because the book is just so
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  good, we need a couple episodes, is look
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  at a scripture passage that kind of teaches
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  an idea that I think is relevant to
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  A.I. and then look at how Pope
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  Leo uses that theological idea as well and
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  applies it to A.I. So we'll actually
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  start with the Bible and then we'll move
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  to the pope.
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  So hopefully that's a that's a nice Protestant
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  way, evangelical way of doing things.
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  Bible first and then the pope.
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  OK, so we're going to look at two
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  passages, one from Leviticus, chapter 19 and one
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  from Deuteronomy, chapter 24.
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  And they give similar teachings.
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  So starting in verse nine for Leviticus 19,
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  when you reap the harvest of your land,
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  you shall not reap your field right up
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  to its edge.
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  Neither shall you gather the gleanings after your
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  harvest and you shall not strip your vineyard
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  bare.
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  Neither shall you gather the fallen grapes of
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  your vineyard.
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  You shall leave them for the poor and
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  for the sojourner.
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  I am the Lord, your God.
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  And Deuteronomy 24, starting verse 19, when you
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  reap your harvest in your field and forget
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  a sheaf in the field, you shall not
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  go back to get it.
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  It shall be for the sojourner, the fatherless
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  and the widow that the Lord, your God,
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  may bless you in all the work of
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  your hands.
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  When you beat your olive trees, you shall
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  not go over them again.
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  It shall be for the sojourner, the fatherless
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  and the widow.
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  When you gather the grapes of your vineyard,
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  you shall not strip it afterward.
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  It shall be for the sojourner, the fatherless
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  and the widow.
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  Okay.
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  What's happening in these passages?
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  Well, there's a limitation that's being imposed by
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  the Torah, by the revealed word law of
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  God on agricultural production.
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  There is a limit, a limit that's being
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  imposed.
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  Right?
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  And so it's talking about harvest time.
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  This is an agricultural society.
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  Harvest time is really important.
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  This is when, in our context, we would
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  say the money comes in, right?
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  You reap the benefit of all of the
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  efforts that you've put in, in planting time
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  and in cultivating time.
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  And now it's finally time to harvest.
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  You finally get the food, you get the
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  fruits of your labor.
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  And what does it say?
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  It says you can't do a 100%
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  good job.
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  Don't do too good of a job at
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  harvesting, right?
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  If you, if you forget something, don't go
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  back and be like, Oh, I forgot that.
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  Let me grab it.
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  Right.
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  If you're going right up to the edge,
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  don't go all the way up to the
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  edge.
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  Like leave a little bit.
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  Right.
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  It's like, it's almost saying like, don't be
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  too thorough.
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  And why is it saying that it's saying,
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  because there's enough in the margins.
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  There's enough there in the stuff that you
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  happen to forget, or the stuff that your
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  edges of your field, that if you don't
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  go back and grab it, you can leave
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  it and that will provide for people who
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  don't have land, people who don't have a
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  field to harvest.
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  Who are those people?
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  Well, it's the sojourner immigrants.
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  In other words, people who are in this
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  land, but who come from another land.
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  It's the fatherless children, people who can't fend
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  for themselves as adult laborers, the widow, similarly
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  in a patriarchal context, widows were, were economically
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  disempowered.
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  They didn't have the ability to kind of
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  hold their own financially.
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  So these are folks who are, who are
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  on the margins of society.
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  And God is saying, you need to remember
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  them when you do your harvest time.
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  Now it's really interesting what God doesn't say.
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  Okay.
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  What God doesn't say is harvest all the
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  way to the edge of your field.
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  If you forget something, go back and harvest
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  it.
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  And then once you've got a hundred percent
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  of your harvest sitting in your barns, then
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  figure out how much of it you're going
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  to give away to the widow, the fatherless,
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  and the sojourner.
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  That's not what God says.
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  That's not what God says.
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  And the reason I bring that up is
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  because that tends to be our attitude here
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  in the West.
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  We tend to think that we should maximize
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  efficiency.
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  And then after we've made all of our
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  money, then think about generosity and how to,
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  how to treat others.
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  And this is where Pope Leo is going
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  to help us.
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  Right.
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  So hopefully is talking about this tendency, right.
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  And he's talking about how sometimes redistribution happens
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  within economies because of taxes, right?
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  So it's like, you know, you can tax
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  somebody who has a lot of resources and
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  then redistribute some of it to people that
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  have fewer resources.
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  But then he comments that like, even thinking
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  about it at the time of taxation, it's
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  a little bit too late.
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  He says, the pursuit of social justice should
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  not be considered a separate issue that follows
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  only after the production of wealth, as if
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  the economy existed solely to create wealth with
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  politicians only intervening afterwards in order to distribute
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  it.
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  Indeed, justice concerns every phase of economic activity,
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  from resource acquisition to financing and from production
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  to consumption, every choice has moral consequences.
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  Okay.
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  So, so what is Pope Leo saying here?
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  He's saying to take this posture of, I'm
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  just going to make as much money as
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  I possibly can, as efficiently as I possibly
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  can.
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  And then after the fact, I'll think about
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  the vulnerable, that that is an unethical way
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  to do business because every choice has moral
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  consequences.
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  The way you make the money in the
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  first place has moral consequences.
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  Just a couple of lines earlier, he says
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  to think that new technologies will automatically benefit
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  everyone is to ignore the evidence.
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  So within the context here, Pope Leo is
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  talking about how the way that AI is
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  used can have an effect on people's wellbeing
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  for good or ill while it's being used,
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  not just in terms of how whatever profits
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  are made from that use might be distributed
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  afterwards, but that the use itself involves decisions
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  that have moral weight and that need to
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  keep in mind how those decisions themselves are
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  affecting other people.
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  So I was reading this passage in the
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  Torah once, right?
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  This gleaning passage, the one that says not
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  to go all the way to the edge.
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  And I happened to be in Jackson, Mississippi
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  with John and Vera Mae Perkins.
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  John Perkins passed away a few months ago.
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  He's one of my heroes, a kind of
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  pioneer in the Christian community development movement.
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  But we kind of had a morning Bible
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  study time and I was sharing kind of
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  a little devotional basically for the whole group.
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  It was a group of high school classmates
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  of mine that had taken a trip down
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  there to visit John Perkins and his wife,
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  Vera Mae.
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  And I kind of gave it like this
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  impromptu, like a sermonette basically saying, okay, and
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  if we were to apply this passage in
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  today's context, it would be that you can't
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  have totally unfettered production to make as much
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  money as possible without thinking about the consequences
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  of how you're making your money.
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  You need to be willing to make less
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  money if that's what it takes to treat
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  people well.
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  I said that.
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  And John Perkins said, I would let you
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  preach that sermon at my church.
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  And he said, not any, not just any
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  sermon.
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  I wouldn't just let you, you know, 17
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  year old Chris easily preach any sermon you
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  want, but I'd let you preach that sermon
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  at my church.
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  Now, as it happened, I, I didn't preach
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  it at his church.
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  I just did it in the little devotional,
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  but you know, now I'm preaching it now.
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  So as we think about what it means
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  to make money, right, there's a very different
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  cultural and historical context in ancient Israel than
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  in the 21st century, globalized post-industrial economy
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  with artificial intelligence, very different contexts.
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  And so when we see a commandment that
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  God has given in the Torah, we can't
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  just immediately apply the exact same law, literally
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  in our present context, that doesn't make sense,
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  not least because Jesus came, right?
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  And so there's a sense in which we're
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  no longer bound by the Torah in terms
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  of all of the ritual commands and things
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  of that nature.
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  Okay.
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  But you can see in the Torah, God's
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  heart.
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  That's, that's the real best thing about the
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  law is that it reveals God's character.
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  And then you can think about, okay, in
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  a different context, how do we apply the
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  same reverence for God's character, knowing that the
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  character of God has not changed, even though
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  the context has changed, the character has not
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  changed.
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  Okay.
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  So what's the character of God that we
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  see here?
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  I would say that it's, God is willing
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  to slow down and keep pace with people
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  who move kind of slowly.
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  Do you see that?
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  Right.
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  This is why I opened with that illustration
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  about, have you ever had to slow down
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  for somebody?
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  You want to harvest all the way to
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  the edge of the field.
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  You want to make as much money as
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  you can.
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  You want to be as efficient as you
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  possibly can.
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  But what does God say?
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  God says, ah, slow down.
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  Right.
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  You don't have to go all the way
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  to the edge.
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  You don't have to go back and pick
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  up what you forgot.
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  Leave that.
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  For someone else, God himself is slowing down
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  to the pace of the widow, the sojourner,
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  the fatherless, and he's asking his people to
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  slow down with him to move at a
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  pace that leaves room for them.
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  Even if it means gathering a smaller harvest
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  to begin with again, not gathering the full
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  harvest and then deciding how to distribute it,
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  just gathering less than the first place.
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  Okay.
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  How could we reverence that same character of
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  God in our 21st century context?
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  Well, I would say, what does it mean
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  for us to slow down and keep pace
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  with people?
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  It might mean that we don't make as
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  much money as we possibly can as efficiently
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  as we possibly can.
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  Sometimes we might have to make decisions where
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  we're making less money because that's a better
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  way of keeping pace with people.
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  So maybe your company could switch to using
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  AI for something, but that would immediately get
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  rid of a whole bunch of jobs.
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  And if your only goal was the bottom
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  line, if your only goal was, we're going
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  to decrease costs and increase profits, then it's
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  clearly the right business decision to automate it,
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  switch it to AI, you know, lay off
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  that whole chunk of the company.
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  Maybe that's not the most ethical choice, right?
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  Maybe keeping pace with people, with human beings
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  that need jobs, right?
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  Again, not ignoring innovation, not doing make work,
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  work that doesn't matter, but thinking through, huh,
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  maybe we could still make enough money to
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  stay in business this quarter, but not make
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  quite as many profits and in the process,
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  take time to think about how could we
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  redesign work so that these people stay employed
• 16:03
  in a meaningful way that continues to produce
• 16:06
  value, right?
• 16:07
  You see how it's a different mindset?
• 16:08
  It's a mindset, again, to go back to
• 16:10
  our quote from Dallas Willard, that business is
• 16:12
  a structure of love, right?
• 16:14
  The purpose of business is not just profits,
• 16:17
  right?
• 16:17
  It's love.
• 16:18
  It's how can we use the profits of
• 16:20
  business, the true operations of business, taking into
• 16:24
  account costs and everything else in order to
• 16:28
  promote what's good for people, in order to
• 16:31
  promote what's good for humanity.
• 16:33
  And that's why Pope Leo's, the title of
• 16:35
  his wonderful encyclical is Magnifica Humanitas, magnificent humanity,
• 16:41
  that we should be designing the economy around
• 16:43
  human beings created in the image of God,
• 16:45
  rather than some abstraction of efficiency and profitability
• 16:50
  that is often a disservice to people.
• 16:52
  Okay.
• 16:53
  So that's, that's some really high level stuff.
• 16:55
  This is, this is more abstract.
• 16:57
  This is maybe relevant for people who are
• 16:58
  making business decisions.
• 17:00
  So what's the application for you in your
• 17:02
  workplace?
• 17:03
  Couple things.
• 17:05
  One is think about the trade-offs of
• 17:09
  efficiency, right?
• 17:10
  So if you're using AI, perhaps specifically, it
• 17:13
  might feel like you're moving faster because you're
• 17:15
  using AI, right?
• 17:16
  Like you could ask somebody to edit something
• 17:18
  for you, or you could just have AI
• 17:20
  edit it for you.
• 17:21
  But think about the trade-off.
• 17:23
  There's less human creativity involved.
• 17:26
  If an AI does the editing, there's quote
• 17:28
  unquote, more efficiency.
• 17:29
  There's time savings, but there's less human creativity.
• 17:32
  That's a trade-off, right?
• 17:33
  So consider that again, I'm not making a
• 17:35
  blanket statement, never ever use AI for editing.
• 17:38
  Although my personal bias might be pretty close
• 17:39
  to that for, for written work.
• 17:42
  But ask the question, right?
• 17:44
  Consider the trade-off before assuming that the
• 17:47
  efficient thing is necessarily the best thing.
• 17:49
  And then two, consider what it means to
• 17:52
  slow down.
• 17:53
  Is there a coworker?
• 17:54
  Is there a colleague that needs you to
• 17:56
  keep pace with them, to honor their dignity
• 17:58
  as a human being created in the image
• 18:00
  of God, as you embrace these new technologies
• 18:03
  in appropriate ways?
• 18:04
  Maybe it's somebody that doesn't know how to
• 18:06
  use the technology and you have a better
• 18:07
  grasp of it.
• 18:08
  Can you help them learn rather than just
• 18:11
  holding them in contempt because they don't learn
• 18:12
  as fast as you do?
• 18:14
  How can you keep pace with the people
• 18:16
  around you, even in the midst of technological
• 18:18
  change?
• 18:19
  That's the way to honor the character of
• 18:21
  God who slows down and keeps pace with
• 18:23
  us.
• 18:26
  Lord Jesus, thank you that you did come
• 18:28
  and you walked as a human being with
• 18:30
  real feet on real roads.
• 18:32
  And you kept pace with us that you,
• 18:34
  that you walked just as slowly as we
• 18:36
  do.
• 18:37
  I ask that you would give us wisdom
• 18:39
  for how to keep pace with the people
• 18:41
  around us and in the midst of these
• 18:42
  big changes that are, that are much bigger
• 18:44
  than we are in the economy and in
• 18:47
  technology, that we would be representatives of your
• 18:52
  character, representatives of your desire to keep pace
• 18:55
  with each human being created in your image.
• 18:59
  Show us how to love like you do.
• 19:01
  Do your work in us as we do
• 19:03
  our work with you.
• 19:09
  Thanks for listening.
• 19:10
  Finding God at Work is a production of
• 19:12
  Mission Central, a ministry based in Aurora, Illinois,
• 19:15
  dedicated to forming Christians for mission in everyday
• 19:17
  life.
• 19:18
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• 19:20
  listen to this episode to get 10 minutes
• 19:22
  of teaching on faith and work every Thursday
• 19:24
  to get resources, to go deeper with each
• 19:27
  podcast series, read our blog and get info
• 19:29
  about upcoming courses on faith in the workplace.
• 19:32
  Go to our website, missioncentral.church.