Latest / The Paul Barron Crypto Show / Institutions & Retail Want Solana... not Canton🔥Jito FIRES BACK!🚨Rebecca Rettig INTERVIEW

Transcript

Institutions & Retail Want Solana... not Canton🔥Jito FIRES BACK!🚨Rebecca Rettig INTERVIEW · The Paul Barron Crypto Show

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Let's dive into Solana and how this plays out into
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: some of the institutional projects that are out there. You
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: guys know we've done a lot around this, so let's
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: just jump right into it. It is really kind of
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: a breakdown of an interview that I did with you've
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: all from Canton last week. It was and of course
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: that created a whole firestorm. I feel I don't think
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: that did itself. I think in general, this has been
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: out there for some time. But I want to catch
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: some of you up. If you didn't get a chance
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: to catch some of what was going on last week,
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: here is a quick recap.
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: Take a look. Why do you call Canton an institutional chain?
• 0:35
  Speaker 3: That's what we think it is, hey by institution, it's
• 0:37
  Speaker 3: the old guard of Wall Street. Well, actually, if you
• 0:40
  Speaker 3: go and look at the list of supervalidators, the thirteen
• 0:43
  Speaker 3: operators of supervalidators.
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: Digital asset one and two. Is that are those you guys? Yes,
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: I so you have eleven.
• 0:51
  Speaker 4: You keep on trying to put this that this is
• 0:54
  Speaker 4: a Wall Street Corp.
• 0:55
  Speaker 3: Chain, And I'm asking you, you know what, give me
• 0:57
  Speaker 3: one bank again from Wall.
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: Street that is a supervalidator. Please do. Maybe you are
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: mistake in it you would not accept the average person.
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: It just gave you angel Hack, which is a great
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: startup out of Asia.
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: All right, So when he was referencing angel Hack, you know,
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: at the time we didn't really have a full understanding
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: of where they were. But this is a good example of,
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: you know, some of the companies that are in these supervalidators.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: And as you can see, Alternative Data is now estimating
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: this revenue range of around twenty five to fifty million,
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: So it's a little bit gray area, but the point
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: is is that these are large validators. We think that
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: is the direction of an institutional concept here.
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: I don't know that I would call it a chain.
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: And then of course you have these things happening right now,
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: HSBC joining the validator set. You've got Goldman, Sachs and
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: Citadel of course backing Digital Asset, which is the company
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: behind it, B and Y, as well as I Capital,
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: Nasdaq smp all now backing Canton, JP Morgan brings JP
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: Morgan Coin. And then of course recently you had the
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: Visa partnership which was just here recent How does this
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: play out versus the permissionless side of things? And this
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: happened at one of the recent events out there. Here's
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: Don Wilson kind of breaking down an issue with Solona
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: and Ethereum.
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: Take a look.
• 2:13
  Speaker 5: I don't know, what do you think when you see
• 2:14
  Speaker 5: folks doing this then on Solana and on Ethereum.
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: It's a mistake to put stuff on these chains that
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: have complete transparency, and you.
• 2:22
  Speaker 5: Swallow Jupiter five years out? Where are the flows? Where
• 2:25
  Speaker 5: are the volumes?
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: Does the market migrate to permissionless do whatever you want
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: super retail things? I'm skeptical that that's where institutional capital
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: markets go. Do you get a ton of benefit through
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: decentralized matching.
• 2:39
  Speaker 5: Institution to institution and that is not really a great
• 2:42
  Speaker 5: place to trade.
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And I mean Canton is perfectly suited for retail
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: activity as well, and so.
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, right, So that was Don Wilson kind of breaking down,
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: you know, the differences between the two concepts here. And
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: I want to go into the response video that was
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: actually done at the same event to kind of frame
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: it a little bit.
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: Take a look.
• 3:11
  Speaker 6: The data that you get from these open, permissionless public systems.
• 3:16
  Speaker 7: Is so rich.
• 3:17
  Speaker 6: Benefits regulators, benefits financial institutions, and it also benefits builders
• 3:23
  Speaker 6: and it's really freaking cool, and the permissioned networks are
• 3:26
  Speaker 6: out there going to the financial institution saying you can
• 3:29
  Speaker 6: really only use us. It's really the only safe and
• 3:31
  Speaker 6: they're listening.
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: Right, all right.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: So that was Rebecca from GDO, and we're going to
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: have her on here in a few minutes. Just to
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: kind of break this down. We went out to Twitter,
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: and of course this has been happening in Twitter. You guys,
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: if you're following us in crypto Twitter in general, you've
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: probably have seen all this. But this, of course was
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: by Rebecca Rebecca, and she was doing a little bit
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: of call out there. You've all response, and then you
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: kind of see what's going on here. It gets a
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: little bit crazy. That didn't stop there. You had Jeff Seiffer,
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: who's been on our show many times, and this was
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: an interesting statement from Jeffy. He said that he didn't
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: talk to a single person that was on Canton side
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: of things in reference to how this will work. And
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: then you can kind of see where it's kind of
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: gone from there. Further into that, Austin Campbell jumped into it.
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: We're not saying that this is happening, but this was
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: something that Austin of course was claiming this was in
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: reference to if you said bad things about Canton, you know, people.
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: Didn't like that.
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: And then last up, here's Don Wilson, a big fan
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: of both Ethan Slanna, and you know, Don understands, and
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: I think that is the key here is he does
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: start and understand what's going on out there. Last, of course,
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: happened just this week with the April Fools jokes that
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: some of us put out. We participated in that just
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: to have some fun, guys, just to have some fun.
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: But you can kind of see it trended. Canton jumped
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: up to the top of trending, but it was obviously
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: in the line of April Fools. So hey, listen, we
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: wanted to bring on Rebecca Retig, who is the clo
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: over at Gito Labs. Did you enjoy the little rundown there?
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: I did.
• 5:03
  Speaker 6: It was just you know, recapping the last week or
• 5:06
  Speaker 6: so of everything that's been going on.
• 5:07
  Speaker 8: So thanks for seeing that.
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: It's a little crazy, that's for sure.
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: Explain to us and our audience why m AV is
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: better than a trad file system, because that's kind of
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: the core issue here.
• 5:18
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, I think that's an interesting framing I'd
• 5:20
  Speaker 6: put it a little differently. I think MeV has just
• 5:23
  Speaker 6: taken on a life of its own and only been
• 5:25
  Speaker 6: used right. It started out on Bitcoin minor extractable value,
• 5:29
  Speaker 6: then as it moved over to Ethereum and Ethereum and
• 5:31
  Speaker 6: other permission lists chains like Solana, it means maximum extractable
• 5:35
  Speaker 6: value and people only use it now to mean something negative, right,
• 5:39
  Speaker 6: to mean you get front run or sandwiched, where you
• 5:41
  Speaker 6: don't get the price you expected and somebody's done something
• 5:44
  Speaker 6: by seeing your trade in advance of actually settling it
• 5:50
  Speaker 6: at the validator level. I think one MeTV has been
• 5:55
  Speaker 6: blown out of proportion. You can see a lot of
• 5:58
  Speaker 6: what the pricing is transparently. For Salana, there's a site
• 6:01
  Speaker 6: called sandwich dot em that actually tracks sandwiches across Solana
• 6:05
  Speaker 6: on a thirty seven.
• 6:07
  Speaker 8: Day one day timeline.
• 6:08
  Speaker 6: If you actually do the math, Yeah, if you don't
• 6:11
  Speaker 6: want it to be happening from a just a general perspective,
• 6:15
  Speaker 6: you want to minimize as much of MeV as you
• 6:18
  Speaker 6: can from a negative perspective. I think MeV has now
• 6:21
  Speaker 6: been used to only mean bad things, and I think
• 6:24
  Speaker 6: we should reframe it to be something called transaction ordering value.
• 6:29
  Speaker 8: Or toe right, and there can be positive transaction ordering
• 6:33
  Speaker 8: value right.
• 6:34
  Speaker 6: Financial institutions today will pay extra fees to for co
• 6:38
  Speaker 6: location fees, data feeds like. There are a million ways
• 6:41
  Speaker 6: that institutions will actually pay to get priority on their transactions. Obviously,
• 6:46
  Speaker 6: front running is not something you should be or sandwiching
• 6:49
  Speaker 6: is not something you should be paying for.
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: Okay, So that first of all good That Now, that
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: gives I think a lot of people a good understanding.
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: When we asked this question, you've all around the DTCC
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: because this, of course was an interesting timing. I'll explain
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: this in a second. Let me play this clip for
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: you real quick.
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: The DTCC is the ultimate enemy game stuff. I mean,
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: come on, alright, So you say, no, the DTCC has
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: nothing to do with trading, don't.
• 7:16
  Speaker 8: Don't call the DTCC the ultimate enemy.
• 7:18
  Speaker 9: So in your testimony you mentioned that the automated deposit
• 7:21
  Speaker 9: requirements from DTCC came in at five eleven am Eastern.
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: Correct.
• 7:25
  Speaker 10: I believe that's correct.
• 7:26
  Speaker 9: Yes, DTCC would have stepped in and liquidated the portfolio.
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: Correct.
• 7:32
  Speaker 10: It would not have been a good situation for the
• 7:34
  Speaker 10: firm or the customers, right, So this.
• 7:36
  Speaker 9: Would have been an enormous catastrophe for Robinhood correct.
• 7:40
  Speaker 10: Not just to the thirteen securities that we restricted buying in,
• 7:43
  Speaker 10: but the over thirteen million customers that we serve. A
• 7:47
  Speaker 10: lot of the other brokers who relied on clearing firms
• 7:50
  Speaker 10: had the same issue.
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: Who sets those requirements? That's the clearinghouse, right? Is that
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: the DTCC?
• 7:55
  Speaker 10: Yeah, it's the DTCC. And a lot of this stuff
• 7:58
  Speaker 10: is actually spelled out in dog frame. If you understand
• 8:01
  Speaker 10: the underbelly of what T plus two settlement is, you
• 8:04
  Speaker 10: immediately ask yourself why aren't we settling trades in real time?
• 8:08
  Speaker 7: This relationship gives Citadel Enterprise key non public information as
• 8:13
  Speaker 7: to direction and volume of trades by retail investors.
• 8:16
  Speaker 8: Fifty percent of all.
• 8:18
  Speaker 7: Trades occurred in dark pools off exchange trades. One problem, though,
• 8:23
  Speaker 7: mister Griffin, is that we don't really know how cimpral
• 8:26
  Speaker 7: your form has become to the capital markets. Mister Griffin,
• 8:29
  Speaker 7: does Citadel handle forty seven percent of the US listed
• 8:34
  Speaker 7: retail volume?
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: Please?
• 8:35
  Speaker 8: Yes or no? Sherman, what percentage?
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: I couldn't hear that number? Forty seven percent?
• 8:41
  Speaker 8: The best my knowledge, we handle in access of roughly
• 8:46
  Speaker 8: forty percent of all retail binding, thank you very much,
• 8:48
  Speaker 8: to a.
• 8:49
  Speaker 7: Few more trades than the average volume of the entire
• 8:54
  Speaker 7: United States equities market in twenty nineteen.
• 8:57
  Speaker 8: Yes or no, that was my written and oral testiment,
• 9:00
  Speaker 8: thank you very much.
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: All right, so you can kind of see we broke
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: it down to kind of give you guys a little
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: bit of breadth behind this and really what you've all
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: and I was trying to get to you a all
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: to answer that in the sense when you look at
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: reg NMS and how it benefits and comments like citadel,
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: explain that for the audience because this seems like it's
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: a little bit lopsided here.
• 9:22
  Speaker 6: Well, I'll keep it at a thirty thousand foot level
• 9:24
  Speaker 6: because I think reg MS.
• 9:25
  Speaker 8: Gets a little dicey.
• 9:27
  Speaker 6: But basically, reg and MS was implemented in response to
• 9:32
  Speaker 6: a lot of the high frequency trading that was going on,
• 9:34
  Speaker 6: trading in dark pools, people.
• 9:36
  Speaker 8: Trying to get some priority.
• 9:39
  Speaker 6: Over customers, brokers going in front of their customers, and
• 9:44
  Speaker 6: things like that. In the traditional financial world, you have
• 9:48
  Speaker 6: what are called fiduciary duties. You are taking in somebody
• 9:52
  Speaker 6: else's money and you are making promises in a customer
• 9:56
  Speaker 6: relationship type of way to be able to get them
• 9:59
  Speaker 6: the best. I think that it differs significantly right now
• 10:04
  Speaker 6: in the permissionless blockchain world because validators are performing technical activities.
• 10:09
  Speaker 6: There's going to be an argument, I'm sure on the
• 10:11
  Speaker 6: permission network side of things, which is like, well, validators
• 10:14
  Speaker 6: get special access and things like that. But I would
• 10:17
  Speaker 6: say in the permissionless network world, you have things like
• 10:19
  Speaker 6: meme pools. The beauty of these permission list networks and
• 10:23
  Speaker 6: something that we're building that's really different that makes the
• 10:25
  Speaker 6: liquidity so deep and people really interested in trading on
• 10:28
  Speaker 6: permissionless networks is that you can see everything going on.
• 10:31
  Speaker 6: I think we should talk about the privacy flip side
• 10:34
  Speaker 6: of it, because that's obviously something the institutional chains have
• 10:36
  Speaker 6: been talking about. But when you have these mem pools
• 10:39
  Speaker 6: that anybody can see, you don't have the same information
• 10:42
  Speaker 6: asymmetry that you do when you're trading in the institutional, closed,
• 10:47
  Speaker 6: opaque world.
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: Okay, all right, so because I think for the audience
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: to really kind of understand what's going on here, this
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: is really at the edge of reframing maybe the entire
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: financial system.
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: That's where we are right now, like at the cliff.
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so it really matters here I went back and
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: looked at an article that happened on December twenty third,
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: twenty thirteen, and this was the New York Stock Exchange
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: proposing a kill switch to help catch trading errors. Then
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: you go forward just a little bit and here we
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: are right now with the Nomad Crypto Hack Advocacy Group
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: now slamming FTC kill switch proposal. This just is being
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: brought back up. So if you look at SIFMA, DTCC, NASTAK,
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: all of these wanting kill switches out there, how do
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: you respond to that?
• 11:38
  Speaker 6: I mean, I have a few things to say. One is,
• 11:40
  Speaker 6: let's just be honest about what you're building. You can
• 11:42
  Speaker 6: build an institutional chain that's a very specific use case,
• 11:46
  Speaker 6: right and there are probably these very narrow use cases
• 11:48
  Speaker 6: for that. Permissionless chains have i would say, a much
• 11:52
  Speaker 6: broader set of use cases, including for institutions, and you
• 11:54
  Speaker 6: can build the things you need in there. And if
• 11:57
  Speaker 6: you're building on chain finance, maybe you want to include
• 12:01
  Speaker 6: a kill switch right at the application layer. That's probably
• 12:05
  Speaker 6: permissioned and you're going to have regulatory obligations that will
• 12:09
  Speaker 6: come from having a kill switch, whether it be through
• 12:11
  Speaker 6: an admin key or something like that. And if you
• 12:14
  Speaker 6: don't have a kill switch, if you have something truly
• 12:16
  Speaker 6: permissionless and truly autonomous like unicewalk three or something like two,
• 12:20
  Speaker 6: something like that where there's no admin key, you know
• 12:24
  Speaker 6: that works very differently and you you know, knock on
• 12:26
  Speaker 6: with you haven't seen hacks of those types of systems
• 12:29
  Speaker 6: because they're built in a very different and very resilient way.
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: Hayden just put out a tweet on that just this morning,
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: so I understand where you're going with this. One of
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: the things that you've all and I went in on,
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: and this was really to kind of get an angle
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: on where Canton was as a closed network versus what
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: we see in open networks out there. I want to
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: apply a clip. This is actually v Boo from Solana
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: responding to that exchange.
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: Take a look.
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: So you're saying it's possible to launch meme coin now
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: on Canton network.
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: One hundred percent, Why haven't you done it? Because we
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: have other priorities.
• 13:06
  Speaker 4: This point kind of like triggers me a bit because
• 13:08
  Speaker 4: because of how people trade meme coins. It made solanas
• 13:11
  Speaker 4: DeFi infrastructure extremely resilient. LEAs survived the trump cooin launch,
• 13:17
  Speaker 4: which is the single biggest thing that happening and in crypto,
• 13:21
  Speaker 4: and because of the work that we did on the
• 13:23
  Speaker 4: chain to be able to support that kind of stuff.
• 13:26
  Speaker 4: When ten ten came around, Solana was by far the
• 13:29
  Speaker 4: best performing network, whereas like in other places, like people
• 13:32
  Speaker 4: were getting absolutely wrecked. Our marketing team simply disagrees with
• 13:36
  Speaker 4: how most people think about this. I can't tell you
• 13:39
  Speaker 4: how many times the institutions have come to us and said, dude,
• 13:43
  Speaker 4: we love what you guys are doing out there. It's hilarious,
• 13:46
  Speaker 4: it's fun, it's interesting. These are all just people like
• 13:49
  Speaker 4: you know, whether they're wearing a suit or not, it's
• 13:52
  Speaker 4: still like they still resonate with humor. It's never penalized,
• 13:56
  Speaker 4: if anything. Like, it's just crossed so many people to
• 13:58
  Speaker 4: our door step who just want to learn how they
• 14:00
  Speaker 4: can tap into that.
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: And I think this is the thing, you know, when
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: you look at culture which is being built right now
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: in the financial system, Salona kind of leads that space
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: out there and they did it. Like what Viba was
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: talking about is the power of basically stress testing you know,
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: the system when you get into culture pressure like that.
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: I want to show a tweet to you because this
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: of course, the drift hack right here exploited now for
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: about two hundred million. When you look at this happening
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: right now, what is your opinion on this.
• 14:28
  Speaker 8: I'll say two things about it.
• 14:30
  Speaker 6: One, I've long been saying that security in DeFi is
• 14:34
  Speaker 6: about cybersecurity, and a lot of it is not just
• 14:38
  Speaker 6: on this Web three smart contract side of things. Actually
• 14:41
  Speaker 6: that the smart contract hacks have gone down substantially. There
• 14:45
  Speaker 6: was actually a report done by IBM Promontory at the
• 14:48
  Speaker 6: end of last year twenty twenty five, commissioned by the
• 14:51
  Speaker 6: European Union as part of MICA, where they said hacks
• 14:54
  Speaker 6: have dropped so substantially from a smart contract side. But
• 14:57
  Speaker 6: this was a Web two hack, right This was a
• 14:59
  Speaker 6: social engineering hack that we saw. And I think we
• 15:02
  Speaker 6: really really need to build out cybersecurity standards and just
• 15:05
  Speaker 6: to pull it all together in the draft Clarity Act
• 15:08
  Speaker 6: going out there, you know, going through the Senate right now.
• 15:10
  Speaker 6: There are these ideas around NIST, which is a cybersecurity
• 15:14
  Speaker 6: organization within the government, to really start building out these
• 15:17
  Speaker 6: cyber standards. But we need to be doing it, and
• 15:20
  Speaker 6: we're really trying to be thoughtful about it at GITO too.
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's going to be one of the more important
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: layers that needs to be implemented into this kind of
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: this next evolution of finance that we are dealing with
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: right now, really at the very front. If you look
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: back though all the way into the early nineties late nineties,
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: where cyber was still very early, that was in my
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: early career, and a lot of cyber was starting to
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: be implemented in the financial networks, and they had started
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: to kind of go at that level. They were starting
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: to implement those kind of tool sets. So I think
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: that's kind of where we are now. It's just we're
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: going to see all sorts of new ways to deal
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: with this, So it is going to be an important thing.
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: I want to jump over to our lightning round that
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: we do with everybody, and it's kind of just a
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: quick rundown, and I don't want you you to have
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: to say anything bad about Canton, but if you look
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: at something that in the framework of what Canton is doing,
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: is it the ultimate enemy of retail after what we
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: saw with Game Stop, No, they can't.
• 16:19
  Speaker 8: We're a missionless blockchain space.
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: All right, let's go into this one right December eight,
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty five, Robinhood announces Chain the big one. Of course,
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: they've started moving very very actively on that. Ten days later,
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: DTC partners with Canton. Was that a coincidence?
• 16:36
  Speaker 8: Possibly?
• 16:36
  Speaker 6: I think everybody is just trying to move as quickly
• 16:38
  Speaker 6: as possible, so that may be. I don't think DTCC
• 16:41
  Speaker 6: partnering with Canton is a coincidence, but the two back.
• 16:43
  Speaker 8: To back probably could be.
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: It was a coincidence. Okay, all right?
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: Why is Canton so desperate to sponsor crypto events right
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: now instead of closing institutions privately?
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: Do they need? Developers are doing both.
• 16:55
  Speaker 8: They want to have their cake and eat it too,
• 16:56
  Speaker 8: for sure.
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so in the center there giving a little bit
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: of signal and also get some depths. First thing Canton
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: does is bridge to Ethan sol Via laire zero, proving
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: that institutions only care about canon if it bridges to Salon.
• 17:11
  Speaker 6: I mean, I'm a lawyer, so I'm going to look
• 17:13
  Speaker 6: at your words very very carefully, and I'll say I disagree,
• 17:16
  Speaker 6: but I have a lot of.
• 17:16
  Speaker 8: Adds around that.
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: We'll go with the disagree. But what's one of your
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: opinions on that?
• 17:20
  Speaker 6: If you want to be in an institutional chain and
• 17:22
  Speaker 6: try to take institutions away from the permissionless chains using
• 17:26
  Speaker 6: a number of different arguments MeV privacy, financial integrity. Then
• 17:31
  Speaker 6: just be what you are which and don't seek out
• 17:34
  Speaker 6: the liquidity, right, the depth of the liquidity that you're
• 17:37
  Speaker 6: getting on these permissionless networks, that's one of the most
• 17:39
  Speaker 6: important points that you can really take away on permissionless networks,
• 17:43
  Speaker 6: especially on Salona, which is moving towards this internet capital
• 17:46
  Speaker 6: markets concept.
• 17:48
  Speaker 8: What vbou said earlier is right, and our founder.
• 17:50
  Speaker 6: Lucas talks about this a lot, which is the stress
• 17:52
  Speaker 6: testing you get from these major events actually makes Slana
• 17:56
  Speaker 6: really appropriate for Internet capital markets, and we're building out
• 17:59
  Speaker 6: infrastructure makes it appropriate for institutions too, so you can't
• 18:03
  Speaker 6: really have your cake and eat it too.
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: So this is an area that we're a little concerned with.
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: Gito Labs could become the citadel of Solana if it
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: just becomes too big.
• 18:12
  Speaker 8: No, totally disagree on that.
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: Okay, well let's argue against that. How would you not
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: become the citadel of Solana?
• 18:20
  Speaker 6: Sure, I mean what we build is open source hyperquency
• 18:23
  Speaker 6: trading infrastructure. Anybody can use it, anybody can access it,
• 18:27
  Speaker 6: right like the Gito block engine was being run by
• 18:30
  Speaker 6: ninety six percent of steak on Falana horse client that
• 18:34
  Speaker 6: you could download. We don't have the ability to restrict
• 18:37
  Speaker 6: it or things like that, and we don't trade against people.
• 18:39
  Speaker 6: We don't have custody of assets. We're not a fiduciary.
• 18:41
  Speaker 6: We're just a software developer.
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: Let's look at uniswap order flow auction and Gito blockspace auction.
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: This could incentivize better user prices and also kill the
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: Citadel argument.
• 18:55
  Speaker 8: I agree with that.
• 18:56
  Speaker 6: With the order flow auction and the blockspace auction are
• 18:59
  Speaker 6: actually work very, very differently, But I agree.
• 19:03
  Speaker 8: I think you're going to get more transparent pricing.
• 19:06
  Speaker 6: Which the unicewap orderflow auction does.
• 19:09
  Speaker 8: The block space auction is a little different.
• 19:12
  Speaker 6: It's not just about pricing, it's about efficiency, certainty and
• 19:15
  Speaker 6: landing your transaction and stuff like that.
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: Okay, good point. Let's go to this one right here.
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: Liquid staking on Gito soul is the equivalent to someone
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: earning dividends on Citadel profits.
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: No falls.
• 19:27
  Speaker 8: I love these questions.
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: Though we're testing eleven.
• 19:30
  Speaker 8: No, it is not like Citadel.
• 19:32
  Speaker 6: I think Gito Soul is just the equivalent of Soul
• 19:35
  Speaker 6: tracks the soul price plus pro retta rewards as if
• 19:39
  Speaker 6: you were staking with a validator permissionlessly. It's totally non custodial,
• 19:43
  Speaker 6: and you're not relying on a centralized intermediary to make
• 19:46
  Speaker 6: you money.
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: All right, that's a good point. Prediction.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: At some point in the next five years, Canton or
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: others will halt chains or worse, get hacked. Do you
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: think that's going to happen to these closed ecosystems.
• 19:57
  Speaker 8: I don't wish that on anybody.
• 19:59
  Speaker 6: I think it will be hard to have a clue,
• 20:03
  Speaker 6: and I think for I'm threw and the TPS, it
• 20:07
  Speaker 6: will be hard slash undesirable to hack.
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: Oh so you just think it's undesirable, it wouldn't be
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: a target a vector, I don't think so.
• 20:16
  Speaker 6: I think it will also be very very difficult because
• 20:18
  Speaker 6: it's closed, But I don't I don't think it will
• 20:20
  Speaker 6: necessarily be a target.
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: Let's go over to this one.
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: Cantons on anybody, Yeah, for sure, I understand that, absolutely not,
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: Nor do we No hacks, Please, no hacks. Canton isn't
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: the first corporal slop and it won't be the last.
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: A lot more coming. Do you think they are coming?
• 20:35
  Speaker 6: I think we have a lot right now, and we've
• 20:37
  Speaker 6: seen a lot in the past.
• 20:39
  Speaker 8: Uh. Put me in the middle there. You know, people
• 20:43
  Speaker 8: keep trying these row chains over and over.
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: So I think this is going to come to an end.
• 20:48
  Speaker 6: Uh.
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: And the reason is really boiling down to the issue
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: of the efficiency that we're seeing both on Ethereum and
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: Salona is starting to get to a fever pitch level
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: that you know, there was an opening prior. I think
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: the opening is squeezing, you know, and I think the
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: opportunity here is going to disappear.
• 21:08
  Speaker 6: So it probably goes to why canton to one of
• 21:11
  Speaker 6: your earlier questions, And some of these other networks are
• 21:14
  Speaker 6: looking to go into the more of the cryptoconferences and try.
• 21:18
  Speaker 8: To attract retail and things like that. And I'll say
• 21:21
  Speaker 8: the other thing on.
• 21:22
  Speaker 6: The efficiency side is I think there's so many tools
• 21:24
  Speaker 6: being built out, Like GDO has built the block assembly
• 21:27
  Speaker 6: marketplace on Ethereum, there's builder net and you get this
• 21:31
  Speaker 6: you know, transaction ordering, certainty, privacy, you know, customizability in
• 21:36
  Speaker 6: terms of financial integrity standards that you're going to get
• 21:39
  Speaker 6: a lot of the benefits of what you need from
• 21:41
  Speaker 6: the financial institution's perspective and the liquidity and permission business.
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: When we get into Clarity, which looks like it could happen,
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: we hope. But if it does go through, will it
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: empower Canton more than Solana?
• 21:54
  Speaker 8: No?
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: No, definitely there.
• 21:57
  Speaker 6: No, I mean the control elements in Clarity right now,
• 22:01
  Speaker 6: we'll impose a lot onto Canton.
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: That's a good point right there. Excellent stuff, Rebecca. I
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: think hopefully this helped everybody out there to understand what's
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: going on out there, because right now is we are
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: at a very interesting time for sure, and it's going
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: to be I think, very very cool to watch over
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: the next few years. So thanks for coming in today.
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: We appreciate it.
• 22:21
  Speaker 8: Thanks for having me.
• 22:28
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• 22:29
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• 22:32
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• 22:35
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