Latest / The Refrigeration Mentor Podcast / Episode 345. Troubleshooting CO2 Gas Coolers with Greg Martel and Al Rivera of BAC (Part 1 of 2)

Transcript

Episode 345. Troubleshooting CO2 Gas Coolers with Greg Martel and Al Rivera of BAC (Part 1 of 2) · The Refrigeration Mentor Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 5: Welcome back to the Refrigeration Mentor Podcast. So happy you're here. I'm your host, Trevor Matthews. And as always, I wanna thank you for listening each week, having some of the top guests from around the world, uh, sharing their knowledge with us. And today we're gonna be diving into a topic that so many people and technicians ask me about in our CO2 training programs.
• 0:01
  Uh, uh. I have to split it up 'cause it was so, so great. Uh, Greg and Al from Baltimore Air Coil. Two experts from there, from my, uh, actually met through my good friend Paul Noreen. So thanks. Shout out to Paul. We went out to dinner with Greg. I learned a lot about him. I sat in on Greg and his name's Greg Martel from the N-S-A-R-C events.
• 0:02
  And he supports thousands of technicians all across North America, which is really great. So in the first episode, really what we start to dive into, like the real world challenge technicians face, that's the part one, like getting into critical sensors and understanding that them, during startup and troubleshooting, getting into like the sequence of operation of the floats, the valves, the pumps, uh, really the, some of the things that.
• 0:03
  And we want to help you avoid some of these issues. That's gonna be in part two. Super excited for this episode, and as always, let's get a conversation going.
• 0:04
  So everything that we talk about here today, it's something that you should be able to share with a coworker. 'cause that's what refrigeration mentors is about, sharing the knowledge. Al why don't you do a quick introduction of yourself.
• 0:05
  Speaker: love that. I love that. And this is what it's all about, you know, out there and you're out there supporting them, right? And trying to help show them the product, show them how to use it, set it up. So one of the, the big questions that I get from, in my programs, we'll dive right into it, is that, like, what are some of the most critical sensors on the gas cooler condenser?
• 0:06
  And at the same time, because the unit thinks that the basin is empty, the pump will never start. So you could have a condition in which your head pressures are high. You walk up to the unit, you see the fence running at a hundred percent, and where the pads are wet. And then when you check your water, you do have water.
• 0:07
  So it is basically an on-off switch. It's a magnetic switch. So when, when the float is down, it should read open. So if you have any meter, you could easily check that. And when you push the float up on the stem, it should be closed. That is the basic operation of the float. Now, if the float is reading open, regardless of how you, what position it is, it means, obviously that is bad.
• 0:08
  Speaker 3: So the, the float switch, usually it's water. It could be water ingression, it could just be time, you know, this devices with time, they, you know, they get older.
• 0:09
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I guess ke keeping on this slide here, Greg pointed out the float switch, but we also have the, the makeup valve, the drain valve and the pump.
• 0:10
  So that ensures that there's no water in the sump and, and your pump is off. Obviously, once we reach the atic switch point, which is determined by an ambient temperature, typically something in the seventies. So let's assume it's set for 78. Once your ambient temperature reaches 78 degrees, your drain valve is gonna close and your makeup valve is gonna open.
• 0:11
  Let's go check what's going on there. Greg, what would be another sensor temperature probe that, that you guys are, are really monitoring or that the, maybe the manufacturers monitor for your gas cooler?
• 0:12
  And I guess there's a little bit of fear too. Yeah. So, so yeah. It is, and something that I try to push during my sessions when we go to, to these classes is that PE technicians need to learn how to operate these fans, how they work, and they need to get the software to control them.
• 0:13
  So what you need is to address the fan. Okay. So like any, like any device, any computer device, it needs to have a unique address, like an IP address on computer, something like that. So if you have a network with a hundred devices, each one has to have a unique address so the main computer can talk to them and know which one has failed or, you know, things like that.
• 0:14
  Speaker: would that be? So where, because you're working on yours, just so gimme an example of all the different ones that they would have to go and maybe find a software or learn from them. Because once again, you're putting it on your equipment, but that manufacturer holds the programming for an example.
• 0:15
  You can't just go buy a case controller and just. Put it in and plug it in, it's gonna work. You have to address it. So it's similar to that, ? So that's the way I'm trying to think of it, to make it relate to what they're doing now. So, so that's great. I love that.
• 0:16
  So, so those are the tools you need. And then you can fix any fat anywhere in the world. EBM Paps obviously. So then, then we have, the other brand that we use is, is called Seal Bag. They're both Germans, so these guys have a slightly different method. So you, you can talk to those fans actually with a Bluetooth device that you can buy from their website too.
• 0:17
  Speaker 3: No. No. I mean, I, I don't wanna say never ever, but yeah. If you have a situation in which the unit is not working correctly, it could be that, you know, somebody made a mistake during addressing the fans at the factory. So, but I mean, it's not required, like, it's not something that you should be expecting to, to ever have to touch the fan.
• 0:18
  One of the biggest things, and I've talked to a lot of people for CO2 around the world I've had lots of experts just like yourselves on the show. And one of the things is, is that I get this question asked a lot. So the drop leg sensor is one of the most important sensors in a CO2 trans-critical system that drop leg temperature sensor that needs to be insulated, that needs to be strapped down properly at the outlet of the gas cooler.
• 0:19
  Speaker 4: I'll, I'll be interested in Greg's opinion on this and what he sees the most in the field, but my opinion, I would think to get the best reading you would want, the, the combined outlet from, from both coils, that gives you the, the, the more true state of what's happening inside the unit.
• 0:20
  So the, the coil actually acts as a little bit of a damper, so it protects your sensor a little bit and you get a better reading. So yeah, we would, we would suggest putting it at the T. Again, that's. I would say it's a little bit outside of our scope
• 0:21
  Speaker: That's okay. It should be on the, I wouldn't know it's gonna be on horizontal.
• 0:22
  So, so that's the standard. Then I moved over to the refrigeration side with customers that are used to dealing with mostly air cooled systems, and now they're using water for the first time. And sometimes I get feedback that, wow, this uses a lot of water. And my, you know, my thought is always well compared to what?
• 0:23
  You can use less water, but you're gonna pay for it with your energy bill. And that balance is probably gonna look different depending on what, on, on where you sit. And even different customers. And so I think the important thing is having a unit that can be set up. Both setpoint and control strategies to, to, to meet those specific needs, whether water or energy is, is more important.
• 0:24
  Speaker 4: Yeah. It, it seems like the, like the trend is for higher switch, switch points, higher higher ambient temperatures when we're gonna go into that wet mode. That seems to be what, what most folks like to see. And again, I think that's all about in the interest of, of saving water. But if you look at from a, from a total cost of ownership, from a, from a use of resources, if you lower that switch point down into the lower seventies where you're gonna get more run hours in atic mode, more run hours using water, you're gonna consume more water.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: they have to put on there.
• 0:26
  Speaker: I love that. Yes. So that's something that they can, the, the plum, like whoever's plumbing it up can just grab a strainer or wash like any strainer just before to protect it. You do this in your systems anyway. You gotta do it with the water itself. So that's a great, great point. And that's a maintenance thing that end users need to know as well as the contractor when you're writing up a, a maintenance, an insulation.
• 0:27
  Okay. Obviously, that can be adjusted up or down. So if you're in a desert somewhere that you have a lot of dust, a lot of sand, you may have to do it a little sooner than that. You, what customers need to keep in mind is that these units are huge air filters. So you're sucking air through the pads all the time.
• 0:28
  You need to remove the pads when they're dry, not when they're wet. When they're wet, they expand, they get really heavy, so remove them. Let them dry outside, clean the coil, and then put the back in. As far as Noss clogging, our units do not have nozzles per se. They have depending on the model, we, we either have A-A-P-V-C pipe that has holes, but that pipe actually has a little bit of a slope, so you don't get clog or it's very rare to get those holes to get clogged on our double row units, meaning that you have, you know, two rows of fans on those, we have gutters.
• 0:29
  Because to dry those out, they don't just dry instantly. They take time to dry out at when you're wetting them all the time. And I, in our CO2 programs and my training programs, I like, I talked to 'em about having an extra set of pads. Like if the end user had an extra set of pads that would save so much time on that maintenance.
• 0:30
  And so the concentration of those minerals are building up as, as we're evaporating more and more water. So the way to control scale is, is to reduce what we call cycles of concentration. Basically reduce the concentration of those chemicals, and we do that by purging some base in water. And that, that, that is highly concentrated.
• 0:31
  So one thing customers may consider in those particular environments is using a water softener. And what that will do will help filter out some of those dissolved solids, some of those minerals before the water gets to your unit. That will considerably lengthen the life of the pads and reduce the scale buildup.
• 0:32
  Capital cost is gonna be higher upfront. Adding the water softener for an example, adding the strainer, ? But the long-term longevity, keeping that, that running properly, efficiently is gonna save them in that total cost of ownership of it which is important. I love this and I'm learning lots already.
• 0:33
  We have places in, in the Northeast where they in the, in the New England area where they had excellent water quality, and we have some customers that have had the same pads for 10 years. Yeah. So it, it, it, it varies. It also, it also to, to Greg's point are, are they going once a quarter taking the pads out and cleaning them or, you know, are, are they just letting 'em go?
• 0:34
  Speaker 3: Oh, so yeah, so, so there's a company that sells this, I, I guess, kind of shampoo that is designed for this. And at, at BAC we do not.
• 0:35
  But like Greg said, some customers are more sensitive to using chemicals and they would, they would just rather replace the pads. But we don't have a problem with that. If a customer wants to try and clean them
• 0:36
  Speaker 5: I hope you enjoyed this part one of this two part series. Greg and Al did an amazing job. There was a ton of tips and tricks, and the one next one, part two is gonna be more on common alarms, pump failures, seasonal strategies, some miss. Stakes and field mistakes that we we see out there. They see out there with the pads and the water distribution.
• 0:37
  So all check out the refrigeration mentor, community refrigeration mentor.com/hub. Love to see you in the community. We got a couple of ambassadors in there. A good friend Andrew and Aiden, and they, they're answering questions, they're sharing videos and pictures and really trying to help the community out to build a strong culture around sharing.