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What I've Learnt - Peter & Suparna Cooper · WHAT I'VE LEARNT

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_02: Well, Carton player Chris Judd is just one of the many fans of one of Australia's most highly regarded investors, Peter Cooper, from Cooper Investors.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_02: Peter's CI Brunswick Fund, of which he is still charged with managing directly, has returned investors an annualised gain of 16.79% since its inception in 2004.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_02: However, Peter's influence across the Australian investing landscape is much greater than the single performance of any of the Cooper Investors' funds.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_02: Countless successful fund managers have cut their teeth learning how to invest the Cooper's way before going on to start high-performing funds of their own, speaking volumes about the culture that Peter and his team have been able to create.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_02: Peter has an excess of 30 years market experience and is highly regarded for his passion, integrity, and purpose.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it's fair to say that Peter Cooper is not your ordinary stock picker.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_02: The daily Meditator Yoga devotee has almost single-handedly built a$10 billion investment powerhouse with little of the fuss and none of the media profile that comes with the territory.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_02: We're a Toyota land cruiser people and not Range Rover types, Cooper responded in an interview with the Financial Review.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_02: But it's on his own personal journey of life balance, wellness and connection that he met his wife Sipana Basim Cooper.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_02: Sipana is a force of nature, dedicated to wellness at every level, facilitating silent retreats both in Byron Bay and India.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_02: She's spearheading the new Be Well community in Melbourne, a hub of wellness warriors determined to give back and honour self-care.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_02: An inspirational speaker, philanthropist, and longtime meditator, her goal is to bring ancient Vedic practices such as meditation, breath work and yoga to different communities around the globe.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_02: In 2018, Sapana made the decision to dedicate her time and resources to making a meaningful impact and creating lasting change through her charitable activities.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_02: Sapana's a sought-after speaker and is presented at the Deepak Chopra Summit amongst many places that she's spoken and inspired others.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_02: Well, when I attended their beautiful wedding in India recently, it was an exemplification of everything that these two are.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_02: Set against the awesome landscape of the art of living 200-acre ashram in Bangalore, their union was an ode to self-care, spirituality, mental wellness, and aging gracefully.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_02: One of the most connecting, inspiring, and special experiences I've been part of.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_02: The colour, the music, meditation, food, the people, it was quite life-changing, culturally, immersive and enlightening.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_02: Encompassing meditation, yoga, intuition, science collaborations with global universities, and fostering an incredible educational facility, there was a strong lens of philanthropy as the nuptials reflect on their life balance, global mission, and hope in doing so they can engage and connect others too.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_02: So, Peter and Sipana, welcome to the What I've Learned podcast.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Dennis.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_02: Now I'm going to start with you, Peter.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_02: You've worked very hard and have a very strong work ethic.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_02: You've been very successful.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_02: But tell us about your personal journey to self-care alongside your strong work ethic.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: The who am I purpose of life question?
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: And it was a bit strange and odd.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: Kind of came from an ordinary kind of uh Catholic uh school schoolyard in the Gold Coast, on the Gold Coast.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: And ever since that that time, I I would describe myself as a seeker and learner around uh life's philosophies, how to how to be a better person, how to you know how to have the good life.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I hadn't actually heard of Plato at that stage.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um actually um made up that that phrase.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so that journey, I guess, you know, has been very linear from book to book to book, did a whole bunch of personal uh growth programs and um speakers and so forth over the journey, and I guess have landed in the community of art of living where I've spent you know the last uh eight, eight, nine years in that community, um, really immersing myself in the various kind of spiritual and philosophical practices.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: But along along the way, it's just been a parallel, I guess, with my work and family, which is a big, big part of my life.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, it's been, I guess, the the safety net or the guide rails kind of got me through some pretty challenging times.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, it's definitely been a journey of discovery and self self-learning.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_02: And Supana, I know that you've played quite a role in that for Peter, but as he mentioned, he obviously has an awareness and began that sort of seeking and learning alongside building his very successful business.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_02: Tell me a little bit about you and your background and what took you down the path of wellness.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and thanks, Deb, again for having us.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so my journey really began in my 20s in a couple of different ways.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: Very early on, I sort of realized that my parents fought for survival.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: They were immigrants from um India, so that my brother and I could go beyond that.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: So, even at a young age in my 20s, I was always a seeker of passion and purpose.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: I think the big um kind of event, for lack of a better word, was in my mid-20s, um, I had I had a severe breakdown.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: And that really triggered me on how how do I not only stay out of depression, but how do I thrive?
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how do I actually have a great life?
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: And that journey also for me, because I was also a natural seeker as well, started in my mid-20s.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: Also, like Peter, reading books, going to workshops.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: We actually met at a personal development workshop in 2001.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, really interesting place where they had an autistic child and they healed that child out of autism.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: So that's actually interesting about our relationship.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: And as I fast-forwarded through that, so many speakers, um, so many workshops, landmark education, Deepak Chopra, Marion Williamson, like you name it.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: I'd been to all of these, Brian Weiss at Omega and some American.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: And it was also when I found the Art of Living in 2010 that that I realized that this is home for me.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: And it's interesting because the teacher that Peter and I had in 2001 at this place called the Option Institute with the Autistic Sun that ultimately came out of autism and is fully high functioning, he said to us, don't be a seeker, be a finder.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: If you find something that resonates, go deep.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, I had never found that into the art of living.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: I was always jumping around from teacher to teacher to workshop to workshop.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: But when I found the art of living in 2010, then that was it for me.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: I actually didn't feel I needed anything else.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: And Peter and I had reconnected as just as friends at that point.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: And then he came on this journey with me.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: We went into a silence course together.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we went, you know, all kinds of things, meditation, breath work, silence, chanting, etc.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then after that, later, we fell in love.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: But um, but it was a point of connection for us, working on ourselves.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I think I can see that, you know, as I mentioned, not only in the wedding, but obviously I've known you both for quite a while.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_02: And and I think the interesting notion of being a seeker and a finder and being willing, there's a lot of courage and bravery that you need in order to do this.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_02: Like, for example, Peter, for you, you know, you came to this later in life, even though you've been seeking for a long time.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_02: For you, how would you describe happiness?
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_02: And is happiness something that is actually something we should all strive for?
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_02: Or do you think that that is a little bit of a misnomer and it can it can blur the the issue?
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_02: Because is it about just having the tools that we need to cope when things don't go the way we that we planned?
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Deb, I think it's a huge topic.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I I I think um I mean the word happiness now kind of to me is a kind of popular term.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: It uh often describes a very kind of egotistical individual central view around making me, me, me um happy, if you like.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: And so I guess whenever I see the word happiness, I I kind of avoid it for that reason because that's not the purpose of life.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: And there's in um I think it's Greek philosophy, you know, this idea of eudaimonia, uh, which is really seeking, you know, you achieve happiness through responsibility and purpose, um, which is a slightly different context around the notion of of happiness.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I really kind of lock locked in on that.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: One thing I do love about art of living, um, there's this term bhakti, and uh Sapana can correct me, the Sanskrit meaning of of the word bhakti is around joy, joyfulness, um, and it's a but it's a very natural top set within the community around I guess uh music and chanting and um through giving giving back to society, it's kind of feels very very natural um and not a self-gratifying pursuit in in itself.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, happiness is you know very much built around I guess community, starting with you know immediate family and then um expanding out out from there, and you know, being um somebody, and this comes under the heading of responsibility, that you know others others can rely upon and where I can give you know hand up, not just just monetary hand up, but being really you know supportive of the different communities that I I connect with, and that's really where I get the most joy.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: And uh the last thing I'll say about happiness, but one thing I have learned, and I know the uh podcast is about uh life experiences this idea of happiness is very much in the mind.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't want to belittle people in you know any terrible economic suffering or or so forth, but you know, it really is um so often in my life, you know, sort of pursuit of going somewhere or you know, hanging out with somebody that to make make me happy, and of course, you take your unhappiness with you.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: So um I have a little, you know, as as you may know, we we like to holiday up in Byron Bay.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: So I've got this little kind of philosophy every time I'm having a bad day, I just do Byron Bay in the mind, you know?
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I love that.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_02: I love it, I love it.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's very true though.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_02: I think what you know, and and actually my father, who's a psychiatrist, has a very similar philosophy.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_02: He always says, Well, you take yourself with you.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_02: So I mean, it's interesting that you say that, Peter, and I I think that's something that what you're saying is you really need to develop a lens wherever you are to help you see things differently and to and to not let that sadness, which some of which, let's all be honest, which you know, you and I have talked about Safan, it's some of it's normal and it's part of life.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_02: And and so I think that's a really interesting reflection.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_02: And just briefly talk to me about you're about to go, you are actually about to go somewhere that is part of seeking and and taking yourself out of your comfort zone, which I know that you're quite good at, Peter.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I have a very good friend who's um was my my best friend from school, is a Jewish Jewish fellow in a Catholic school, which uh in itself is a bit ironic.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: And uh but Peter uh my my friend um Peter Barry is doing a uh five-week walk on the Camino Trail, which is uh one of the big three pilgrimages that uh Christians do.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: It starts in France and ends in in uh northern Spain.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: He's taking five weeks, so I'm just gonna drop in on him for five days of the walk.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I was actually talking to him last night.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: He set off on the walk.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: So very much looking forward to that pilgrimage, and um hope it doesn't end like St.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: James, the guy though celebrating.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: He was beheaded in in Jerusalem, and I'm not quite sure who by.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_02: But uh Yeah, well, I'm I'm really, really hoping that doesn't happen.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_02: And Sopana, I'm sure you're hoping that doesn't happen either, and that he treads carefully.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, Sapana, and for you, um, I mean, you and Peter are a dynamic duo, but as you said, you've been on your own individual pathways of seeking, but together you have a very strong alignment, and a lot of that is about giving back, listening, and being part of a community.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_02: Can you talk to me about how that, you know, you've come a long way since the, you know, you refer to it as a breakdown, but in some ways, sometimes the breakdown is the gateway pushing through to get to that next stage.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_02: Tell me a little bit about that from your perspective.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I'll I'll share a couple things on that.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's a great question.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's it is true that that breakdown, had it never happened, I don't I would have never met Peter because that breakdown is what sent me to the place that we met.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but Deb, it's it's a great question because you asked it in the beginning about community.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: So um that's actually crucial.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: So there was there was actually a study done, uh kind of the research of happiness, and they named three things that help you raise your happiness, happiness quotient.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: One is personal development, actually doing work on yourself.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: One is giving back, being of service, that if you're uh helping someone else, you're less in your own misery.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: Our teacher, Gurdav Shri Shri Rabishankar, says that he says if you're feeling if you're feeling low, do sadna, do personal development, do spiritual care, meditation, breath work, yoga.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're feeling strong, do seva, and that is actually what will build your resilience.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um but the third thing that this scientific sort of film called the happy film or happiness or something is community, that the third piece of it is community, and that if you are in a like-minded, healthy, conscious community, which is what Peter and I have created, then that becomes your saving grace.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I will confess something.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: When I first came to Australia in 2015, I had built such a big community through a women's empowerment business in New York.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: I'd built my Order of Living community, I had my friends there.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: So when I came here, I didn't know that many people.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: I had been introduced to a handful of friends.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but one of the dreams that Peter had for both of us is that when you come to Melbourne, we should open a center and we should build a community and share knowledge and spread knowledge.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: And because I have found Deb, when I'm sharing it with others is when I feel the most fulfilled.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: So that that sharing is an outpouring of what's full in my heart, and then building that community around me, which you're a part of, and that you came to India and you met so many of our people.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: We had 65 international guests that came from around the world, from Canada, US, UK, Australia, India, like all over the world.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so one of the initiatives that Peter and I have taken up now is, and I'm there right now, is a wellness center called Be Well in Hawthorne.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: And what's exciting about it is two things.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: One, inside of Be Well, it's like a 500 square meter space, is a hundred square meter yoga room, which we're kind of turning into an informal art of living center.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: So we just hosted a night call called Satsang, which means in the company of truth.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: We did that on Friday.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: We did our breathing session.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: We're this weekend, they're actually doing a non-residential silence course.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: But what's exciting to me is we're actually having a physical space now to build this community, to bring people together.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: And that is how I'm the most fulfilled.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: When I'm sharing and giving back is when I feel the most alive.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: And what's exciting about this center, it's kind of more than we bargained for because we only ever wanted, you know, a building with the space to host retreat, um, host courses.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: But this place has everything.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: It has um exercise equipment, it has um Pilates, it has yoga, it has a hyperbaric chamber, infrared sauna.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: We're putting in a hot cold plunge pool.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: So it's all the self-care stuff that Peter and I are so passionate about.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: So it's the dance of all of those and and a physical space that allows us to do our own self-care but give back to others as well.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_02: Which is super exciting.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_02: And and um I went to the opening of that.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it is it is really quite challenging in this climate for a lot of people to find which is their best path.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I think you two exemplify that as you know, Peter works very hard.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_02: You both have both of you have a very strong work ethic.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_02: But what you're saying is that life, you are so much better at everything you do with family and with work if you take care of yourself.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_02: How is that, Peter?
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_02: You talked about that briefly before, but how has that shaped your ethic in the and the way that you work with the staff?
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I know you're all all of your community at work, you know, they adore you.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_02: And and you're you're not your average bear in that sense.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_02: You're you're somebody who is very, you know, you can function in the corporate sphere, and yet you bring to that this whole other community and lens that you and Sopana have created and reflect.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Deborah, uh you're too kind.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um if I showed you my three- That's true, Peter.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: If I showed you my 360-degree feedback uh reports from uh Merrill Lynch days, I'm I'm sure you'd change your mind.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_02: But um But look how far you've come.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: We've all got a dark side in the shadow, as you know.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: And um I think the main thing you you kind of work with what you got and just aim aim for you know small improvements each day.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I I um I think where I'm I I've been better is um kind of just calming myself down somewhat, you know, in terms of reactivity and net negativity bias and so forth, which are or over overly critical, let's call it, in in uh work and family.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so I would hope that my uh colleagues would say that I'm a calmer, more centered, less reactive type person.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that that's true.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um I guess you know, through that self-awareness, and I I really did come from a background where you know sometimes weaknesses can explain success.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I do think some of my weaknesses do, you know, explain my motivation, um, my work ethic, and you know, that's sort of fear of failure or um fear of not being successful or trying to be somebody were just massive drivers for me earlier on in my career.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I've I feel really lucky that I've been able to kind of transcend that because that works for a while, but that leads to burnout, it leads to terrible relationships.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um drives focus for sure, goal orientation, all very good, um, but um unchecked or unbalanced, it really does have a lot of damage around relationships, and so I've actually been able to kind of work work through that, and I think I am better in in that that regard.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: And one thing on this as well that I've learned, which I feel very passionate about is this point, and um Dr.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: Ebben Gordon, um, who spoke of that that sort of be well evening has been a massive influence upon me around the neuroscience of the journey from knowing to doing.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: So people in the self-help industry and and seekers and so forth, just because you know something has got nothing to do with doing something.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: And so for me, the um you know, the passion point really is well, what is the bridge between the knowing and the doing?
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's a little bit complicated, I think, because of personalized wiring.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: 80 billion neurons, and we're all yes, we're all the same, sort of, but I think in many respects, you know, we're quite different along a whole bunch of attributes like personality and way ways of learning and different different forms of intellect and so forth.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: So figuring out you know optimal pathways, I think there are principles, but I think there's also a lot of individuation around that question.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so I feel really lucky to have gotten this point.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but that doesn't mean you know that it's easy to do, and as you know, it's extremely you know, the the old saying leopards don't change their spots is a is a you know time immemorial saying for good good reason.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, really, really trying to you know introduce and integrate some of these, I guess, neuroscientific points and philosophical spiritual points into transformation in in an organization and um you know in a in a work workplace um is definitely definitely a journey, and you know, really trying to make it a a safe, safe place to explore that question.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's so poignant what you've just said, and I think the interesting thing that you reflect is also there's also got to be a cultural shift because I think that a lot of, and we've often spoken about this, but you know, also the culture and expectation of you know, the harder you grind, you know, both as male and female.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_02: But often I think men, as Sapana and I have often reflected, you know, the grind and the you know, the sense of driving at all costs is very culturally prevalent and and is and it's something, to be honest, from early on that is pushed.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_02: And what you're saying is so true.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_02: How many people do that, reach burnout, and what's the point?
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_02: And then if we could just incorporate some of these things along the way, which you're now doing and Sipana's now doing, and I'm now doing, it's going to lead to a healthier, more, more creative and more effective workplace anyway.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that stress that comes out of that.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, it's just a matter of, I guess, judgment as to what you know, what's enough.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: A little bit of stress is good, but what you're alluding.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: To is a stress perfectly quick, funny story.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: When I was at 101 Collins Street here, there's a church opposite that has a little meditation room in the basement.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: You walk down Russell Street, walk into the basement, and at lunchtime, I used to go over there.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: I was so stressed out, Deborah.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know, literally, and it was very dark.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: There's a little candle in the middle of the room, and about 20 chairs around the outside.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I'd just put my, you know, my face into my hands and just say, what the what the hell type of thing.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: It was like a little century to get away from the stress at work.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: I had to stop going there simply because I started to notice my work, other work colleagues coming in there.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, through embarrassment, I I kind of never went back.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, the key point around this, I think, is it's just not effective.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: There's working hard.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: You've got to work hard to succeed in anything in life.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: But at a point you go beyond that, you're totally ineffective to make wise decisions, productivity goes down.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and yeah, I think it drives a heap of negative, both mental and physical side effects.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I think Sipana, you would certainly support that perspective because I know that you both for yourself, but also what the transformation you've seen with Peter and also other people around you and your friends, and really that's much of the mission of the Bewell community and the art of living community.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think there's a do you think there's a global transformation happening?
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_02: And do you think the pandemic has also, because we've had such an incredible mental health crisis?
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_02: I know that you've done work with the very renowned Patrick Magorrie.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I know, so can you talk to me a little bit about that and what transformation you see and transition is happening?
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, it's a great question.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so two things on that.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: I often talk about this.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of people sometimes create a lot of gloom and doom, but I've heard this on a number of occasions that we're we in so many ways we're more advanced now than we've ever been across the board.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: So uh we're optimists.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'm an optimist.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: We have uh a problem out of the pandemic around mental wealth and mental health and mental illness.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: I shouldn't say a problem out of mental wealth, because that's actually the solution.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: So mental illness, youth mental health, that's what Pat McGorrie cares about.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: He and I he's actually ringing me, not right this minute, but in the last week.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_02: We we need to talk about this.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_02: Just clarify, just for our listeners, Patrick Magorie.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, sorry.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: He, of course, he is the founder of Origin and Headspace, the Youth Mental Health Centers.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's called AO, like an AO is is some kind of um uh acknowledgement, right?
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: There's an AO.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he's got an A.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he's very well renowned.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he's well well renowned.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: He's probably the most well-respected psychiatrist in the country, one of the most well-respected psychiatrists in the world.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like when I went to London with him for a conference, we met someone from um from America who's the head of the National Institute for Mental Health.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: He came over to meet Pat from America.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like, so he has people from around the world coming.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome Trust, which is like a five fifty billion dollar foundation.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: They that head person of mental health came to meet Pat in Melbourne.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_02: He's very well, yeah.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: And in London, we met these people and they came to Australia.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so we are running currently a uh clinical trial on Sudarshan Kriya, which is the signature breath technique, breath work technique from the art of living.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so in his conversations, there's a lot of sort of, we've got a lot of issues happening with youth mental health globally.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: In my humble opinion, the other output of COVID, and someone someone just reflected this back to me the other day, is so many people slowed down and now actually practice more self-care than they ever have because they actually had the opportunity to do it.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: So whether that's in work-life balance or better exercise routine or more time with their family, or they started meditating because they had that opportunity stuck in their house that they never had before.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I'll just give you an example, a very concrete example.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: So the art of living was never online until the pandemic.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: And then because we had that need, all of a sudden we have online courses where you can learn a shorter version of the breath work, but you still get the breath work online.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: And now, so many more millions of people, already it's in 155 countries, already hundreds of millions of people, but so many more were able to be reached because of you know something so terrible.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: COVID, of course, it had negative consequences, but it also had positive consequences.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: So ultimately, Deb, the last thing I'll say is like it's in each and every one of us our own hands.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: And my what I feel my primary role in this lifetime is to be the best wife I can to Peter and and and the best family member to all my family, Peter's kids, family, my family, everyone, my nieces and nephews, everyone.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: But also, Deb, I feel I'm in such a privileged position where I have very low needs that I'm able to just share and bring people into knowledge as much as possible, so that the next generation has more conscious leaders, has more government leaders, has more corporate leaders that are actually awake and care about the planet and each other and set up systems that actually help us to thrive.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_02: So um, yeah.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I think that is in essence very much, yeah.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_02: No, but that is actually in essence what when we were in India we saw, but also um what both of you reflect.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_02: And just finally, if you could each just speak to me about what's probably the greatest lesson, Peter, that you've learned, and you have referred to it quite a few in the course of this interview.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_02: But maybe you could just fine-tune what's what's probably one of the greatest lessons that you've learned that you would part that you would like to share with our listeners, but also your children, who I know are very important to you.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: Uh a couple of them, and I think they um referred to that that journey from knowing to doing really requires um, you know, clear goals and small steps, because the I guess the doing bit, uh, the distractions, the hype, you know, the mental hijacks, um, the many social barriers that get in the road of us transforming and changing behavior, you know, really require a lot of I guess discipline, which is really hard.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why I say, you know, breaking it down into small steps.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: And lastly, um, it's a bit um obviously original, but this idea of persistence and embracing failure and disappointment, and kind of you know, just seeing it as a as a temporary opportunity, and just getting that mental, I guess, framework has been very helpful for me, particularly.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: I definitely have a negative, I'm sure Sapana wouldn't agree with this, but you know, uh kind of a critical negativity bias in some respects, and you know, it's it's not a good thing.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you've got to have a kind of a bit of a bit of negativity, a bit of criticism, but you've got to really reshape some of the challenges as um opportunities and just getting that mental map um is the start, I I think, of of transformation and dealing with some of the challenges in life.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: So long way of saying, you know, fall over nine times and get up ten.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_02: Oh Peter, I love that.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I know you know that there are plenty of people in my life that love that that um that notion.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_02: And and to be honest, you know, part of what you guys are doing is helping a lot of people that I know, but I think even broader than that, as you mentioned, the whole art of living notion of breathing and meditation and yoga, much of what we did in India is very much an ancient wisdom that is sitting there ready to be tapped.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_02: And on that note, um Sipana, just what is the one of the main or a few lessons that you have that you can share with our listeners to leave on this note with?
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's great.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's a great question.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's piggybacking on what Peter said, Deb, but but at the fundamental bottom base of it, um, until you feel fill up your own cup, it becomes very difficult to give to others.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: And many of us, and I was there for a long time, we're so caught up in our own drama, in our own, what this is not working, this is not, I'm unhappy about this, me, me, me, me, me.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: And because we're not taking care of ourselves, we don't have the capacity to deal with whatever life is throwing our way.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: And it's only when we get real.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: And then I had a um a shaman say this to me once, a long time ago.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: He said, Don't schedule your daily activities, don't schedule your spiritual life around your daily material life.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: Schedule your material life around your spiritual life.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_01: So for me and for us, what that means, what that means is we set aside a minimum of two hours in the morning.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: And when we were in Byron during a lockdown, it was more like three.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: We spend time together, we do our yoga, our breath work, our meditation, we go for a walk, family.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: We call my parents in America.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_01: We we do different things that fill us up in the morning, and then we have a much better day.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_01: Because in the morning we brush our teeth, we brush our hair, we put nice clothes on, we wash our clothes.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: But what about our mind and emotions?
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: We actually take better care of our carpets than we do our own mind.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: And then I think this is the reason why we have so much chaos and craziness in the world where we're harming ourselves, we're harming each other, we're harming the planet.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's because it's a rotting mind.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: If we never brushed our teeth, our teeth would rot.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, my lesson in my life and what I like to impart to others is only when you are able to really take care of yourself, and that requires a daily discipline, and really a discipline around saying no to what doesn't work and yes to what does.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_01: But then from that place, giving back that is the number one quickest way to happiness or joy is to actually help people and to give back.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: And that's when you feel the real joy.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: So those are my several lessons.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_02: Well, all I can say is thank you so much, both of you, for your time, for your energy, for your giving and for your spirit, because it is definitely well, I'm certainly very happy to have you both in my life.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_02: But as a rule, I just think you're great listeners and you show that it matters to you to help others, and that's something that we all value.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you for your time and you take care, Peter, and do not trip on your and uh congratulations on your podcast.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's extraordinary.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's really uh the wisdom distilled in that you just don't need anything else.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, well, I I that means a lot to me, so thank you very much.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_02: I I appreciate it.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I will see you guys soon at the next uh hopefully meditation or whatever's coming up.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_02: I know there's quite a few things, so yeah.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um there's something coming up in a couple weeks.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: You got it.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I know, I'll be there.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, just see you.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_02: Bye guys.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks so much for listening.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_02: The What I've Learned podcast will now be coming to you weekly with new episodes released every Tuesday.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_02: I'm blessed to have so many wonderful guests coming on the show.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_02: So check out my What I've Learned Instagram for updates.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_02: Meanwhile, stay tuned, kind, and curious.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_02: Love you.