Latest / Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo / Jim Fletcher: He Gets Us, The Church Decline, & End Of The World

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Jim Fletcher: He Gets Us, The Church Decline, & End Of The World · Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo

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  Welcome to World View Matters, discussing controversial issues, discerning current events,
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  defending biblical Christianity.
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  No topic, off limits.
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  And now, here's your host, David Firazzo.
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  Hey, friends.
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  Welcome.
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  Thank you for your prayers.
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  Thank you for sharing the podcast and, man, I just love all the people I get to talk
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  to.
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  It's not really a job.
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  This is a ministry, and I'm so thankful.
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  Today we've got Jim Fletcher back with us.
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  He's an author.
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  I want to mention a couple of his books over on Amazon.
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  We haven't talked about, I love the title of this book.
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  It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.
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  And the subtitle is, how to stop worrying and learn to love these end times.
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  Now, that was written about 15 years ago, but very applicable today and relevant.
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  We'll talk a little bit with Jim about that, because I think it's the first time we
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  really mentioned it.
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  And also, I love the book Miracle of Israel, the shocking untold story of God's love for
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  his people.
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  But you can find out about Jim Fletcher by going to patreon.com slash the God that answers.
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  I love it.
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  We have a God that we can be in relationship with.
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  This is not a religion by any stretch.
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  Praise God.
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  Jim Fletcher.
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  Good to see you, brother.
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  Welcome back to World View Matters.
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  Good to be with you.
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  Well, let's start right there with your earlier books.
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  I just love the title.
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  We haven't talked about that on the show.
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  I mean, that's going to be relevant, probably forever, until Christ returns, or the church
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  gets raptured.
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  You know?
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  So, talk to us about that.
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  Just love it.
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  Yeah.
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  Years ago, I was in Christian book publishing, and an editor for a company messaged me one
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  day.
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  And she said that they wanted to do a prophecy, but not the traditional form.
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  More conversational, maybe trying to reach different audiences.
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  And so she said, do you think you could do that?
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  And I said, let me do a chapter.
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  And so they decided to do it.
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  And it remains one of my favorite projects that, you know, none of the information is
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  dated.
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  But I use kind of different examples, but highlight Bible prophecy throughout.
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  And that was a fun project indeed.
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  So we're talking about, I don't remember where I saw the date now.
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  I think it was about 15 years ago.
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  Things have changed.
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  It seems like demons have been unleashed.
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  It seems like the warfare has ramped up, and attacks on Christ, his word, the church,
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  the biblical world view, Israel.
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  We're seeing all these attacks, demonic attacks at levels we've never seen before.
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  So it's very interesting that you see a book with that title.
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  It's the end of the world, as we know it.
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  And I feel fine.
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  I think a lot more people today, Jim Fletcher, want to focus on the, how do we get to?
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  And I feel fine part.
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  Yeah.
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  Well, and you know, I made this point in the book and it was just immediately after it
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  was published that a lot of things started to break loose and get worse.
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  The main theme is that Bible prophecy is proof that God exists.
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  And if you actually study it and you read the biblical prophecies and realize that he fulfilled
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  the ones that he said he would, there are some yet future, that then is maybe a different
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  kind of image of God that people have had before.
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  If he's sovereign and holds everything in his hands and is all powerfully knows the
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  end from the beginning, it of course means he knows you're in from your beginning.
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  And so if we see him doing what he said he would do throughout history, we really don't
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  have to be fearful and anxious like a lot of people are today.
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  We can really rest in that.
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  And so I think Bible prophecy teaching is the most effective tool we have today for
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  evangelism.
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  Unfortunately, a lot of churches have, have ignored it.
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  Yeah.
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  And we've talked about that for quite a few years now how, and you can see the fruit,
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  maybe the rotten fruit of ignoring Bible prophecy.
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  You can see people, a poster child for, you know, what do you call it, unhitching from
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  the Old Testament, Andy Stanley and others.
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  So yeah, it's a cancer in the church, but there is a remnant and we're blessed to be a
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  part of it.
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  Jim, before we move on, we're going to talk about secret sensitive churches, big churches,
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  Super Bowl.
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  He gets us.
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  But talk to us about Patreon, tell us about the God that answers.
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  For some of our viewers and listeners that aren't familiar with Patreon, that's where
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  we can get your newsletter, we can get your articles, tell us how it works.
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  Yeah, it's a, it's a platform really for content creators.
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  It could be anything, it could be an artist, it could be a musician, a writer.
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  And so my page is, I have exclusive content based on, you know, many trips to Israel
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  and studying prophecy for 25 years.
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  And so I put some, some things on there that, again, are from a little bit different
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  perspective.
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  And so, you know, people, if they care to, they can pay a fee per month to, to have
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  the access to that content.
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  And I've had a lot of fun with it.
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  I've done it for six months now and it's growing and I'm going to do it for the duration.
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  Awesome.
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  Lord willing, huh?
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  So yeah, we get some of us, I say that because some of us have been, you know, censored
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  and kicked off certain platforms.
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  But Jim, I've been talking to a few pastor friends recently since the Super Bowl.
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  I've had former NFL player, Paul Blair, senior pastor in Oklahoma.
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  He's ahead of Liberty pastors out of Oklahoma.
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  They're doing conferences to try to equip and wake up and train.
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  They call them boot camps for pastors.
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  By the way, friends, heads up, ones coming to Wisconsin.
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  I just caught one to that today.
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  And we've been talking about some of the, just the sad reality of some of these big
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  churches wanting to entertain, to try, or use these different methods to try to get
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  people in the door, to try to put butts in the seats.
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  I know that's a crude way of saying it.
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  But once you do that, and I think we've talked a little bit about this, Jim, at least
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  on the radio we did, once you do that, what do you do to keep them there?
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  Can you go back to teaching verse by verse?
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  Can you go back to revelation?
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  Can you talk about Bible prophecy?
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  Can you talk about judgment, repentance and holiness of God and things like that?
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  Your thoughts on the watering down of the church and what we're seeing.
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  Some churches do to try to attract a crowd.
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  Yeah, a lot of these secret driven churches, the mega churches will never talk about
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  those things you mentioned.
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  They don't talk about repentance, holiness, anything like that.
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  They stay away from it.
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  To the question of what do they follow up with, I think a lot of them, it's somewhat
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  a revolving door with members.
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  I mean, people may get tired of it.
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  You know, they're going to figure out that they're not being fed in their spirit
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  by this stuff.
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  And so they'll leave.
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  But then a new crop comes in.
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  And so you just present the same stuff and a lot of them never heard it before.
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  So they stay for a while, you know, the answer really is that they're not offering
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  the world anything of spiritual value.
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  And that's really, really sad.
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  It's very clear that they're watering down the gospel, just the pure gospel.
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  And I think I don't think I can say that every one of them come from it with
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  impure motives.
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  They may have a genuine desire in the beginning to reach the loss for Christ.
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  The problem is you can't present the gospel any other way than as it's
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  presented in the Bible and it'd be effective.
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  And yet they continue to do what they're doing.
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  Yeah, there's, you know, you can entertain only for so long.
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  And I like the way you explain that.
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  I think you're right.
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  I think some people, they come seeking, they know they're seeking something.
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  And maybe they don't get it and they go, well, you know, what, how different is
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  this in the world?
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  I just came up from, so they go back to the world in Romans 12, too.
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  Of course, says, do not conform to the world's ways, be transformed by the
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  renewing of your mind.
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  So Jim, there's a lot of gimmicks that some churches maybe try to use to, to
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  maybe get people in.
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  And we've seen, I've been very disappointed by some of the stuff I've, I've seen
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  particularly you many of our viewers have seen the videos of Super Bowl Sunday.
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  Church services that morning, some churches were getting all the football
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  theme going.
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  And I think one, one pastor or someone even kicked a Bible across the stage,
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  trying to get it through a goal post, who thinks this is a good idea?
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  And then everybody's laughing, but oh my goodness.
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  What, what would the Apostle Paul think?
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  What does Jim Fletcher think about that?
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  I think it's grotesque.
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  It really is the, the example you cited, the kicking the football across the
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  stage in 20 years of watching this stuff.
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  That's the worst thing I've ever seen.
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  It's, it's blasphemy off the charts.
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  And, you know, this little small team of church staff, they placed the ball
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  down or the Bible, like all kicking tea and woman kicked it across the stage.
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  And, and yet you just hear nothing but applause.
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  And I think that's because the people in that church have not been taught any
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  reverence for God at all.
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  This kind of stuff is, is rampant.
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  But I don't know that I see an end to it.
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  They just keep recycling the same stuff.
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  It goes back, I mean, who knows how many decades, maybe even longer, but you
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  and I were, you know, not that we're old, but we're getting up there.
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  And we've heard stories of youth pastors entertaining the kids playing these
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  ridiculous games.
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  And I know, by the way, biblical worldview of youth pastors has now had around 12
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  or 13% of youth pastors and churches in America.
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  So that gives you an idea of what, what are they teaching the, the kids that come
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  to youth group?
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  We've seen this, these entertaining methods, the, I think part of their role
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  is confused, Jim.
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  I think they think that they need to keep the kids occupied.
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  And it's not about discipleship, it's not about teaching them the word of God
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  or equipping them to deal with what they have to deal with, especially when they
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  go out in the world and maybe have to be a part of the public school with all
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  that is, they're bombarding the kids now with a demonic agendas.
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  So youth, it starts there.
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  I mean, kids are being taught like, yeah, I guess I'm just here to have fun.
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  But then that kind of translates over into what we're talking about with some
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  of these big churches, it's all about fun.
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  But boy, I don't, I don't see that anywhere in the scripture.
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  I see persecution, I see warnings about, about judgment, I see Jesus calling
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  out the religious leaders and, and man, it just doesn't seem biblical, does it?
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  No, it doesn't at all.
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  And you know, a lot of these places, they, they do feel that they have no,
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  what their option then to entertain.
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  But as you said, that this doesn't work.
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  Now, I've, I've taught Bible prophecy to youth gatherings many times.
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  And I can tell you that if you stay on the topic of Bible prophecy, they are
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  riveted and it's not my presentation, but they are very engaged.
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  They listen intently.
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  And then afterwards they have very intelligent follow up questions.
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  It, it's boggles the mind that churches don't understand this.
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  They would keep the kids attention if they would teach Bible.
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  I have no doubt about that.
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  But where is the national leadership that will embrace that?
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  I don't really hear it.
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  So we've got to take a brief pause with Jim Fletcher here.
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  Again, you can go to the website patreon.com slash the God that answers.
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  And we've been talking about entertaining methods and Super Bowl Sunday was an
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  opportunity where we saw what some churches were doing.
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  And we're going to talk about, you probably saw the commercials about, he gets us.
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  Well, we're going to talk about how that is a little unbiblical.
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  And Jim's got some thoughts.
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  So do why when we come right back on World View Matters.
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• 13:50
  So Jim Fletcher got questions has a very thorough article called is the, he gets
• 13:58
  us ad campaign Biblical.
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  So is there a quick answer to that before we go on to some of the details?
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  Yeah, the answer is it clearly is not.
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  So what they're trying to do, I guess, again, is maybe not so much using
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  entertainment, but using that commercial to attract people.
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  But it really gives the wrong impression of Jesus, how tolerance maybe was
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  a concept, the footwashing, go ahead and share a couple of your thoughts.
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  And let's walk through this.
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  Yeah, you know, I watched that commercial that night when the game was on
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  an early in the thing and my, my absolute first reaction was, if I'm just
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  watching this as just some person doesn't have to be a person of faith.
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  Why, why are they washing feet?
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  There's no explanation of that.
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  I don't, I don't think the average secular person, because the culture is
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  no longer Biblical, really at all.
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  That's right.
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  You would be confused.
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  What does that mean?
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  And I didn't see it explain.
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  And then, you know, very subtle introduction of images, you know,
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  in front of an abortion clinic, but it's not called an abortion clinic.
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  The sign is, I think family planning center or something like that.
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  They want to soften all of this stuff.
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  They want to, they want to show people out in the world that they are
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  not against something, but they're for love.
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  Well, you know, John wrote in the New Testament that love is obeying God.
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  And there's no mention of anything like that.
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  There's again, no mention of repentance or anything like that.
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  They just present these images, a slickly done, but, but no, no explanation.
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  And I doubt much follow up.
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  So how would you respond to, I guess, an argument on the other side that promotion
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  is simply bringing attention to something in the hope that it would attract people
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  or people would respond?
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  As you said, it, there was very little explanation of what people were watching.
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  And many probably didn't understand the concepts, but promotion and marketing
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  are kind of odd terms when you think about the church and the Bible.
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  Yeah, it is.
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  I think that the overwhelming problem with this is if you're presenting a false Christ,
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  they are not presenting Jesus Christ to the Bible.
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  They're presenting their own man-made image of what they think people will receive.
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  And that's, that's the issue right there.
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  They're not presenting the real Jesus.
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  So the website, I guess, links to other resources.
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  I haven't looked at it.
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  I'm, you, you probably have, but, like, he gets us, does note Jesus' death and resurrection,
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  apparently, it refers to him as the Son of God, which is a good thing.
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  Some contact links, though, go to a small group-focused evangelism ministry,
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  but others connect the seeker with local churches without seeming to consider doctrinal guidelines.
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  Now, there's an important point right there, Jim, if you're connecting.
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  Let's just get everybody connected to a local church without really thoroughly doing due diligence
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  and finding out where is this church, doctrinally, because we know a lot of churches in America
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  now hang the rainbow flag and they're welcoming, but they're not biblical, but they're tolerant,
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  right, and diverse and welcoming.
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  So this is a problem when you consider, okay, some things on the website might be okay,
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  but they're connecting, perhaps, a lot of people with churches, or maybe some people that actually spawn,
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  churches that maybe aren't following the Bible.
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  So your thoughts on that?
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  That's dangerous, obviously.
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  Well, one of Satan's best tools is to introduce a little bit of truth with a lot of entries.
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  And I think that's what you're getting into here.
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  Again, you're not introducing a biblical concept of Jesus and the follow-up,
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  as you mentioned, I think is very suspect.
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  Yes, you're then turning people into churches that are not doctrinally sound.
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  And I have to say this, you have to look to a lot of the people that are involved with this.
• 18:36
  They are ecumenical in the extreme, but they're camped in solidly in the evangelical world.
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  And I'm going to mention one name, Stetser, who had a perch with life away in Southern Vaz convention for years.
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  And when that ship sank, he landed at Wheaton College, and now he's gone to Biola.
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  Stetser is very ecumenical.
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  He's one of the main drivers behind the He gets his campaign.
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  He also doesn't respond to people asking questions that are critics.
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  They're not held accountable for things like this, and they just keep doing them.
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  So again, the people behind the campaign themselves, in my view,
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  are not the kind of biblical leaders that you would want.
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  A couple of topics that were explored in the advertisements there, deliberately challenge.
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  In a pose, you would say, the conservative Christian or traditional or fundamental view,
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  it goes beyond the essentials to areas of political liberalism or theological liberalism.
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  And that's concerning.
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  And one example that is the topic, Jesus was a refugee.
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  You've heard this.
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  Many people probably have heard this, and that equates Mary, Joseph, and Jesus to 21st century refugees,
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  fleeing their country or fleeing war or whatever, or poverty.
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  But they're using the word refugee, giving that a very different meaning is what we understand today.
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  And part of that gym is a defense to keep the southern border open in America.
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  And oh, my goodness, you can get in all kinds of nonsense when you just follow this idea logically.
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  And we saw it at Christmas, even.
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  Some major displays, they had a fence, or we're not a fence, a cage around the major display.
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  So what message does that send, right?
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  So go ahead and share your thoughts on that.
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  This is when you kind of get into the weeds.
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  But we've got to talk about it because this is the message they're putting out there.
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  Well, that comes from a leftist mindset.
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  And again, you have evangelical leaders today who are leftist in their thinking.
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  They're also some of the main drivers between the open borders, the immigration stuff.
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  The image of Jesus as a refugee is a political weapon they're using to bring in what they would call progressive Christianity.
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  Now, once again, if you read the biblical account of Jesus going with his family to Egypt, they weren't refugees.
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  It has nothing to do with the modern immigrant problem.
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  For one thing, they went for a brief time and then came home.
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  The immigrants that are flooding our borders now have no intention of going home.
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  So it's again using an image of Jesus that they can use to.
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  Eliciting motion from people.
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  Oh, look at the poor immigrant family that, you know, no, that's not really the story at all.
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  But once again, when you have a culture that is biblically illiterate, they don't know anything about that.
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  And I'll just say one more thing about the image of Jesus as a refugee.
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  The Palestinian narrative uses the exact same thing and applies it to the Palestinians.
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  Wow.
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  Both of those things.
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  If you're talking about what Ed Stets and Russell Moore want you to think about immigration with Jesus as a refugee, it's the exact same tool used in the Palestinian side to demonize Israel.
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  Wow. That's an excellent point.
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  We have to keep aware of these things because these marketing campaigns are not going to go away.
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  You know, they've got the money pouring into that.
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  And I want to go back to the context of the feet washing.
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  Apparently in one of the ads, I think if I remember right, there was a priest washing the feet of a person that was connected or affiliated with the LGBTQ community.
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  Maybe it was gay or whatever or transgender.
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  But the tagline said, Jesus didn't teach hate.
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  He washed feet.
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  So Jim Fletcher, true, Jesus didn't teach hate.
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  Now, let's pull back from that a little bit and say a lot of what even in the sermon on the mount, a lot of scripture today would be considered hate speech.
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  So there, that's kind of against the Bible, making Jesus into something that he's not.
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  Because yeah, he didn't teach hate, of course.
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  God is loved and he sent his son.
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  So your thoughts on that.
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  And then, of course, he washed feet.
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  That's not all that Jesus did.
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  And that was out of context again.
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  But he didn't teach hate, Jim.
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  No, he didn't teach hate.
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  But again, cherry picking what they want from the story to fit a leftist narrative.
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  But they leave completely alone the many biblical instances where Jesus was very strong in what he taught.
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  I mean, he, he never sanctioned abominations.
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  He never sanctioned being weak, theologically spiritually.
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  He always presented himself as.
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  Lashed to the word.
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  He, he is the word.
• 24:05
  And so they try today to take bits and pieces here and there and create this narrative of a Jesus that it really isn't the Jesus of the Bible.
• 24:16
  Again, they're not talking about Jesus Christ.
• 24:19
  We're talking about another Jesus.
• 24:21
  And that's the problem.
• 24:22
  Okay, Jim, this went by way too fast.
• 24:24
  And I actually wasn't paying attention to the time.
• 24:26
  So forgive me.
• 24:27
  But we didn't even touch on Israel.
• 24:29
  You mentioned the Palestinian narrative and how they're using the little refugee thing.
• 24:33
  But just share your thoughts.
• 24:35
  And I don't even know where you want to go with this.
• 24:37
  But I just want to give you an opportunity to talk about Israel.
• 24:41
  And what do you see happening?
• 24:44
  Well, again, I talked about it a little bit in the beginning as far as people are fearful.
• 24:49
  Now they're anxious.
• 24:51
  Even my pro-Israel friends, even pros or Christian friends are really afraid from what they speak going on.
• 24:58
  And you know, now we've got a situation where an American administration for the very first time has publicly broken with Israel.
• 25:06
  They're working on a UN resolution to force a ceasefire.
• 25:11
  That that is unprecedented and very dangerous.
• 25:14
  However, I would appeal to people to think this through every single time in their history that the Jews have been facing an existential threat.
• 25:27
  God rescues them.
• 25:29
  I am thoroughly convinced he's with them now.
• 25:32
  He's going to be with them in the future.
• 25:34
  I believe that they will carry through their mission in Gaza.
• 25:37
  They're going to resist the pressure, the intense international pressure.
• 25:41
  They're going to dismantle Hamas.
• 25:43
  And I don't worry about Israel in the future.
• 25:46
  I never did.
• 25:47
  I really don't.
• 25:48
  It's not a place that a believer should be in fear and anxiety about what's going to happen to Israel.
• 25:56
  They're going to be just fine because God told us they would be.
• 25:59
  Amen.
• 26:00
  And that's where we have to end it.
• 26:01
  And that's a great point.
• 26:02
  If you're a student of the Bible and even a particularly Bible prophecy, we know God is sovereign over all things.
• 26:09
  And his promises will be fulfilled.
• 26:12
  And that includes Israel.
• 26:14
  Where is the best place to get your book, Miracle of Israel that you wrote with Gary Frazier?
• 26:21
  On Amazon.
• 26:22
  And Gary is one of the good ones.
• 26:24
  He was great to work with.
• 26:26
  Awesome.
• 26:27
  So yeah, you can get a little bit of history there and just hear more about that.
• 26:30
  Miracle of Israel, a great book, Jim.
• 26:33
  Well, gosh.
• 26:35
  You never know how these things are going to go, but we talked about a lot of important things and that we've got to keep our eyes out for some of these movements that are trying to just take people away from the truth and from the biblical worldview.
• 26:46
  That's why we call it worldview matters, but thanks brother.
• 26:48
  Good to see you again.
• 26:49
  Thanks you too.
• 26:50
  All right, blessings.
• 26:51
  Jim Fletcher.
• 26:52
  And by the way, his website again, patreon.com slash the God that answers.
• 26:57
  Well, let's see.
• 27:00
  I was looking to see who we got coming up.
• 27:02
  I don't have the schedule in front of me, but you know, it's going to be good.
• 27:05
  Thanks for your support and your prayers, friends.
• 27:07
  God bless you.
• 27:08
  And as always, keep speaking the truth about things that matter.