Latest / Conversations: Special Guests with Preston Scott / Have Back Issues Or Are You Facing Orthopedic Surgery of Any Kind?

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Have Back Issues Or Are You Facing Orthopedic Surgery of Any Kind? · Conversations: Special Guests with Preston Scott

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Five minutes past the hour. It's third hour Morning Show
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: with Preston Scott Show fifty three to eighty. I'm laughing
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: because I've been into Chad Gray's torture chamber on more
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: than one occasion, and where he is the expert and
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: there is no doubting that, and now he's in mine.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: It's been a while since you and I have talked
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: on the show. How are you it's been a few years.
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm incredible. Thank you for having me. This is wonderful.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: No, I thank you for having me over the years.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: And let me introduce Chad this way. Friends, years and
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: years ago, when I was doing a very regimented workout
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: routine at Titus Sports Academy, I started having some very
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: low back issues and I was really getting annoyed by it.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: And Adam Farrow, one of the founders of Titus Sports Academy.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: Adam said, Hey, I want you to see this guy.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: Don't go there, don't see the orthopedic surgeon. People go
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: see Chad Gray. And what happened started a very long
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: relationship that's probably been twelve years ago, maybe longer.
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe longer than that, twelve to fifteen.
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: And what Chad did for me was he educated me.
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: And I think that was what was so significant is
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: that I learned and I've never had that back problem since.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: Now He's addressed other issues that I've encountered as I age,
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: because that's what we do. We age and we encounter things.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: But Chad is co founder of something called Joint Strong.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: Jointstrong dot com is the website, and Chad give everybody
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: just a snapshot. What is your mission in purpose with
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: Joint Strong.
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: Primary mission is to reduce the incidents and prevalence and
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: the overall kind of cost burden that this condition category
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: of this domain of healthcare, of the muscular skele domain
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: or the orthopedic domain as many people may know it
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: as the impact that it has on our society when
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: you look at this base from a cost respective, if
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: you look at the health plans around America, organizations like
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: Capital Health Plan locally your self funded plans and companies
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: like Michelin and Walmart and organizations like that that you
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: know they fund their own healthcare for their employees and
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: their dependents. This particular condition category is now one of
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: our number one or two highest cost spends in healthcare
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: and it's created an epidemic. Almost in the last fifty
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: years in this country, the incidents and prevalence of this
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: condition has risen dramatically where I think now most of
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: the study data of the epidemiological studies show that about
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: half of the population in this country specifically will have
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: a chronic muscular skeletal condition developed in their lifetime. So
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: it is truly an epidemic both from the impact it
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: has on our ability to function and live a high
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: quality of life as we age, and as a burden
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: on the society as far as cost goes on the
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: payers of healthcare services in this country, it has a
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: tremendous burden on them as well.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: So you've attacked this not just from the physiological the
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: body the mechanism that is our body standpoint. You've attacked
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: this from literally a statistical digging into the details and
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: the data.
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: We started our whole journey really diving into the data
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: and trying to understand really what was the core catalyst
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: for this phenomenon we were seeing happen around this country
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: and around the world. What was it that drove the
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: trends and the patterns that we were seeing in the data.
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: And this is one of the more studied areas of medicine.
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: We write about one hundred thousand articles of a year
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: peer review articles a year that get published in some
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: of the most well recognized mainstream journals in the world,
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: and so there was plenty of evidence out there to
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: show us what was happening, what we were doing wrong
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: in healthcare while we were seeing these dramatic rises and
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: costs and incidents and prevalence. But you know, once you
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: get a system moving in a direction, once we started
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: practicing medicine in the space, once they start kind of
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: moving in that direction, it's really hard to change it
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: as new information and new evidence comes out. So it's
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: hard to turn a big ship. And we started out
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: with a really dedicated and focused and rigorous effort to
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: take that science and build new methods and practices based
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: on that science and embed them into clinical practices and
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: clinical applications that really allowed us to produce better outcomes
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: and better results than historically we have been seeing in medicine.
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: Chad Gray with me in studio from Jointstrong dot Com
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: and Chad, I remember saying to you at some point
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: in the last few years that I just I'm determined
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: not to be that person that has of most of
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: my life at six fourd and some change and ends
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: up at six feet or five eleven because I just
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: keep bending over more and more and more. And we're
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: seeing that. Are we seeing that more and more and more?
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we're seeing it more and more, certainly in the
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: aged population. I'm not necessarily including you in that group yet, Preston.
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  Speaker 1: I appreciate the Yet we're all ahead and there. But yeah,
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  Speaker 1: but you don't have to be there in that position.
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: You don't.
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  Speaker 2: Actually, you know, most of the stuff is completely preventable
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  Speaker 2: and avoidable.
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: The more frightening thing is, you know, when I first
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: started in this business thirty one years ago, now, it
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: was uncommon for us to see teenagers or you know,
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: young adults in their twenties with these common manifestations that
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: we saw in the older population, the stiff back, the
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: her needed disc, the bulging disk, the stiff knee and
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: shoulder and ankle, et cetera. And now what used to
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: be perhaps maybe five percent of our population coming into
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: the clinics now is about a third of it. And
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: a lot of these changes are created because of our
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: pattern lifestyle, the habits and behaviors that we have as
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: humans now in our culture have changed, you know, compared
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: to let's say, one hundred years ago, when we were
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: predominantly in agricultural farming society, where we were moving constantly,
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: moving in ways that were unpredictable, often you know, aggressively moving,
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: moving to end range as we call it. Those things
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: don't happen as much anymore. The advent of the of
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: the smartphone, of gaming systems, of technologies that allow us
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: now to be more sedentary and sit in postures and
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: positions we were never designed to be in before, have
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: now lent to the rising incidents and prevalence of these conditions.
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: You know, just once again, it wasn't something that we
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: saw fifty plus years ago, and now it's become unusually common,
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: frightening to see, as a matter of fact, how many
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: young adults now, not just our older population, but our
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: young adults now that have these challenging musculo skeletal issues
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: that are all once again preventable and avoidable if we
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: just knew what to do.
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: I want to get to that point, but I want
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: to use as an example somebody that I sent your
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: way a few years ago that illustrates that in the
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: healthcare system, in the queue right now, they just aren't
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: trained to properly treat a lot of things that cause
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: people to seek out a surgeon and to seek out surgery.
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: And it was a young man that was he was
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: going to have an ACLMCL surgery. His knee was bleue up,
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: but everything in his aftercare was basically wrong.
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: Yes, you know, this becomes a difficult conversation sometimes to have,
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: especially in the healthcare world. You know, if you look
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: at the curriculum in medical schools around the US, less
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: than three percent of the curriculum on average is spent
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: on trying to understand, assess, precisely diagnosed, and then ultimately
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: select treatment for patients in the orthopedic or muscularis gull
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: little space. So we've got this massive gap in training
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: in med school, and then we drop into our residencies
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: after med school, and there's generally less than two weeks
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: for our primary care and our internal medicine docs about
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: how to once again assess and diagnose and select treatment
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: for this particular population. And so you've got these huge
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: gaps in education and training, and then you drop into
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: a clinical practice as a primary care internal medicine doc
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  Speaker 2: and about a fourth of your day is spent on
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: managing people who are coming in with painful joint systems.
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: Back pain, knee pain, hip pain, shoulder pain, you know
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: the common ones, the big five the hip, knee, shoulder,
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: back and neck or the big five you see. And
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: so you've got massive gaps in training and you've got
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: a high volume of payations coming in. Leads to a
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: ton of variation in how these people get managed and treated.
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  Speaker 1: And oftentimes they get referred perhaps prematurely.
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  Speaker 2: For surgery oftentimes, I mean it's kind of the default mechanism.
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  Speaker 2: I think that a lot of your physicians, you're kind
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: of gatekeeping physicians use as a as a method of management.
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: And the good news, folks, is that there are alternatives.
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: And it's not to say that there's not a place
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: or a time for surgery. We do it great when
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: it's really needed.
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  Speaker 2: We love surgery.
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  Speaker 1: The issue is do we really need it?
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: Do we really need it?
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: And that's what we're going to challenge. Yes. Yeah, Chad
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: great with joint Strong. He's co founder. Jointstrong dot com
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: is the website we're talking about your back and your
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: hips and your shoulder and your knees and all of
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: the different things that your joints just cause you problems.
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: And over the years, I've had Chad attack multiple things
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: with me with tremendous success, and I wanted to Chad,
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  Speaker 1: what do the numbers say about how frequently someone has
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: surgery and it might have been avoidable.
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: We work with some fairly large payer organizations, self funded
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: organizations like Walmart and Michelin and others, and we have
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: access to detailed claims data, so we can kind of
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: track a cohort of patients we're seeing inside of our
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  Speaker 2: organization versus those are still seeking care, as we call it,
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: kind of out in the wild. The numbers of kind
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: of overutilized or unnecessary surgeries, you know, fall somewhere in
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: that sixty five to seventy five percent range, surgeries that
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: were completely avoidable had the right intervention or treatment or
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: care been provided. So fairly alarming statistic when you when
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: you consider the impact that has on on your life
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: once the surgery occurs, and the cost burden of that
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  Speaker 2: to our society, to not only the consumer, but to
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: the payer organizations as well, a tremendous burden that's there so.
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  Speaker 1: It might oversimplifying by drawing the analogy that it's not
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: unlike a weed in your yard that you can just
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: see the thing and pluck it out if you deal
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: with it early, or you can end up having basically
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: a tree grow in your yard and be stuck with
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  Speaker 1: a real problem.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, there are clear warning signs that tell us these
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: things are coming, these joint issues are developing, are coming.
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  Speaker 2: We just don't quite understand the language our body uses.
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  Speaker 2: Sometimes we don't interpret the data very well, as we
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: say in the clinic, you know, stiffness and pain or
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: the early warning signs and indicators that these things are
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: developing and approaching us, and we tend to try and
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: kind of brush that off. Oftentimes, as we get older,
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: we use age as our excuse. We go, well, I'm
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: just getting older. They told me this is going to happen,
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: so I'm just going to kind of live with it.
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: Or we'll just pop a few pills, take a few
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: tile and hal or you know, get a prescription here
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  Speaker 2: and there to kind of deaden or numb the pain,
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: and we just kind of ignore it and let it
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: continue to fester.
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: And it sounds like you're describing what I told talked
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: about a couple segments ago with the older person who
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: starts to hunch over more and more and more. They're
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: kind of giving up.
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they give up. Those changes and mobility are a
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: direct byerproduct and result of our failure to go to
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: what we call end range movement. The joint systems adapt
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: and change based upon the stresses we put through them. So,
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: for instance, if I just take my finger and leave
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: it bent for a few weeks, eventually I won't be
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: able to strengthen anymore. I won't be able to move.
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: The tissues adapt to the stresses applied to them. We
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: have structures called ligaments that hold and support and bind
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: our joint systems together. And those ligaminostructures remain supple if
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: I use them through their full and entire range of motion.
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: They stiffen and adapt and change. If I don't, those
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: gradual adaptations and changes in flexibility, and those passive support
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: structures around the joint are what lead to most of
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: the pain and discomfort and stiffness we experience. And once again,
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: if you think logically or intuitively about it, if if
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: I just take something that starts to get stiff and
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: move it aggressively through its full range of motion. I
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: can avoid that. You know, we've all experienced friend, family members,
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: or ourselves that have had maybe perhaps a fracture of
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: a bone, and they put you in a cast, And
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: what's that joint look like when you come out of
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: the cast.
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: Well, it's stuck.
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: It's locked, right, And what do I do for to
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: that point, I start aggressively pursuing movement. I push it,
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: I push it, I push it till I restore the
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: mobility that I lost. That's an extreme example of what
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: I'm talking about here, you know, where we just to
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: mobilize something for weeks and weeks and weeks and then
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: it gets stuck. But imagine a person who sits in
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: a chair for thirty five years behind a computer and
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: sits in a sloupstraight forward bent posture and never straightens
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: up or never bends backward fully in the opposite direction.
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: Over time, those tissues adapt to those stresses and they check.
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: And it becomes more comfortable to be in that forward
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: leaning position than the one that you're going the other way.
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: As I change, I adapt and compensate my entire lifestyle
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: to fit that new change, and then that continue to
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: perpetuate this transformation not in a good way.
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: And so instead of dealing with a little bit of discomfort,
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: by going the other way and pushing that to the
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: end range, we avoid the pain altogether the best we can.
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: But meanwhile it's just encroaching more and more. That's right.
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: We instinctively as humans, we're built and designed to avoid
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: things that hurt. Sure, but in these circumstances you have
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: to move into the stiffness and ultimately into the pain
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: to restore the joints normal motion, restore that end range movement,
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: restore function back to the joint system, and abolish the pain.
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: These these symptoms are completely reversible. We know that now
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: based upon the science and based upon our clinical results.
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: If we just can get to people and teach them
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: how to change a few behaviors in their lifestyle to
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: kind of restore what's been lost.
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: Back with Chad Gray of joint Strong the website jointstrong
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: dot com. Chad break down percentage wise, the areas of
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: greatest concern and who you see the most.
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: About fifty percent of the volume in healthcare in the
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: muscular skull space is spine related, So your low back, neck,
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: the other fifty percent is predominantly comprised of shoulder and
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: hip and knee. You've got a sprinkling of elbows and
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: wrists and ankles here and there, but most of the
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: large joint systems, the hip, knee, and shoulder, and then
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: the spine constitute you know, ninety plus percent of everything.
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: And the back can be the source of a lot
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: of pain in a lot of other places that you
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: don't know. The real issue is in the back. Yeah.
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: The spine has a unique ability. Certainly in the instance
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: where a disc bulges are hernia, it's a mixed contact
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: with the nerve root. We all kind of understand the
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: basic presentation of sciatica, for instance, you know where you've
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: got the radiating pain through your buttck, down your leg
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: all the way to your foot in some instances. But
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: even without compressing the nerve root the spine, whenever the
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: disk structure, which is a ligament, it's the largest ligament
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: in the spine, whenever that structure becomes stiffened or rigid
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: more rigid, it has the ability to refer pain into
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: the shoulder and into the hip, and into the the
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: thigh and the upper arm. So a lot of the
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: conditions that we see coming into the clinic that are
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: you know, not directly you know, located in the in
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: the region of the back, but they're out in the
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: in the in the shoulder, upper arm, and hip, and
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: thigh are actually referred from the from the spine themselves.
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: The disc structures get stiff, they get a little tight,
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: and their way of telling us that that's happening is
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: to refer a symptom or a pain out that way.
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: One of the things that I've observed in my time
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: with you is your a to oftentimes determine whether I have, quote,
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: an injury that might need a specific type of treatment
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: versus something that I can work on and get better
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: in relief. Is you're able to identify pretty quickly whether
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: a few minutes of this, that, or the other type
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: of movement can bring some relief or added strength.
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, most of your orthopedic conditions, musculo skeletal conditions are
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: not structural defects. There's not something that's broken or damaged,
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: or the join isn't worn out to the point where
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: it's bone on bone truly bone on bone. Most of
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: the conditions that we see coming to the clinic are
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: simple mechanical problems where the join has gotten so stiff
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: or it's lost so much motion that it's now aching,
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: it's painful. The ligament of structures have tightened, or fibroast
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: is kind of the formal term that's used for that
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: condition or that presentation. The structure of fibros is and
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: to get so tight that it's now altering the mechanics
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: of the joint system. Well, if you think about that
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: process that phenomena, the person that's best suited to manage
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: and treat it is the patient. They carry that joint
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: system around with them all day long. So if I
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: can find movements or positions that create favorable responses, kind
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: of a cause and effect relationship between you moving that
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: way and you reducing or abolishing your pain, then me
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: teaching the patient how to use those movements really is
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: the best medicine. It's how we ultimately are able to
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: self treat or teach people self treatment strategies or techniques
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: for about eighty to eighty five percent of all the
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: conditions we manage in the clinics. So most things don't
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: require injections, they don't require medication, they don't require surgeries,
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: they require thorough education. They require teaching self care principles
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: and practices that take that joint system to enrange and
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: restore what's been lost in what used to be otherwise
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: supple elastic, pliable structures.
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: And sometimes it's as simple as does movement a work
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: or does movement be work? But one of the two
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: of them is going.
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: To work correct In most joint conditions, you have what
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: we call a directional preference. One direction of movement's going
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: to work better than all the others. And interestingly enough,
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: when you look at the patterns and the clinics that
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: we have, it most often is moving them in the
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: direction from where the joint system spends the least amount.
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: Of time that makes them off a sense, from.
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: Where they hang out at most of the day.
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: So if the person's leaning using the back leaning forward,
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: let's try to find the right movement going back the
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: other way.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: Eighty five percent of the time back pain is going
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: to be abolished or significantly reduced by moving them into
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: what we call extension or backwards bending. And it's not
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: that's not rocket science to figure out why we bend
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: forward three to five thousand times a day in our
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: normal lifestyle. We sit and a flexed or bent forward posture.
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: How many times a day do you bend backwards to
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: a pose or equalize that?
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: We don't.
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: There's nothing in my lifestyle that dictates that movement or
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: requires it.
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: Chad was just telling me, I saw the email from
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: twenty sixteen when you hit me up about that thumb
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: of yours, and I'd shared the story about not being
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: able to hold a golf club or hold a hammer
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: for that matter, and I thought, oh, man, I said
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: to you, I must have hurt my tendon or something
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: like that, and you're going probably not and f and behold.
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: Within minutes, he's showing me where the problem really is.
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: It was not in my thumb, It was in my wrist.
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: But let's talk through to the people right now. There
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: are people that are dealing with pain in their joints,
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: and let's focus on the back and or they have
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: a mom or a dad that's dealing with it, or
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: a friend or whatever starting point for them.
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, obviously, if you sit and you listen into the
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: language that the body's using when you've got these back conditions,
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: they it tells a really nice story. If you think
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: about what the kind of daily pattern is that you're experiencing.
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: If you sit down and you analyze that, you'll see
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: there's a clear cut pattern there. As I mentioned a
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: few minutes ago on that other segment, everything has a
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: directional preference most of the time, unless it's truly broken.
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: Most of your back paying patients tell you they can't
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: stand to sit. They don't like sitting down. Sitting is
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: in a position that's it's inherently filled with flexion. I
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: sit in a flexed or forward bent posture. They will
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: classically also tell you when they come into the clinic
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: that I feel better when I walk. Well, walking's the
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: only functional activity we do that promotes backwards bending or
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: extension of the lumbar spine the low back. And so
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: if that's a pattern that you're noticing, when I bend
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: too per slouch in the chair, I get stiff and
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: I hurt worse. But when I get up and walk,
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: I move better, I feel better, I hurt less. Well,
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: then don't do't be afraid to explore movement in the
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: direction it's clearly told you you should be using and
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: moving into backwards bending or extension and lo and behold
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: in the clinic about eighty plus percent of everybody we
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: see with back pain, severe back pain, pain locals of
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: the low back pain radiating down the leg or not
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: resolves by us teaching them movement protocols in that direction.
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: The science, the evidence in the research is overwhelming in
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: this area. It clearly shows us that not only can
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: we teach patients to self treat and self manage a
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: vast majority of back pain by using movement in that direction,
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: but when we use it prophylactically as a preventative tool,
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: we can also stop it from coming back again or
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: from developing it all.
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: And so.
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: You've got to be willing to kind of lay down
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: the fear and the worry and the anxiety of pain
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: in the joint system and explore movement's impact on your
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: particular condition. Don't be afraid to move a joint that hurts.
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: And trauma that's very rare though, you know, only about
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: three to five percent of the cases we see coming
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: into the clinics come in because there was some event
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: that occurred, some catastrophic event or traumatic event that occurred.
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: Everything else is insidious and it's on set. It just
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: showed up for no reason at all. When that happens,
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: you have a green light now to start exploring movement,
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: no matter how bad that joint system's hurt or how
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: bad it hurts. And you should be thoroughly exploring movements,
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: specifically in the directions that the body has told you
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: it would like for you to use.
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: And there are different ways of achieving those different extensions.
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: There are.
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: There's, you know a couple of different methods and ways
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: you can apply that. You can do it lying down,
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: doing you know, kind of a simple cobra type move.
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: You see my stick in the corner. I see your stick. Yeah,
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: that's my back extension stick that I can I fashioned
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: it after seeing you. I can move it up and
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: down my spine to isolate different areas and it works great.
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So you can do it standing, which you are
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: you have to do because it's studio here, but you
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: can do it lying down as well. But those are
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: the two kind of primary positions where you can start
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: to apply those movements into the spine. And oftentimes what
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: you'll see is yet it hurts while I'm stretching or
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: moving it there. But once I finish, or once I've
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: done it for a day or two or three, all
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: of a sudden, miraculously, I'm moving better and I'm hurting less.
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: When you get that response, you better aggressively pursue movement
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: in that direction to end range. Get everything back in
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: that direction, because as soon as you do, I'll guarantee
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: you most of the time you're going to see it abolished.
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: I'm going to end with a statement you made to
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: me years ago. You said, when you're ninety, if God
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: lets you live that long, you can have the same
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: back flexibility you had when you were eighteen. If you
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: work out it.
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: You just have to use it every single day. You
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: have to go through full en range movement in the
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: joint systems to stop these changes from occurring. It ain't
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: rocket science, as I always say.
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: No, but the learning is about like it to me.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: I've appreciated our friendship and thanks for coming in. Thank you, Preston,
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: Chad Gray. It's jointstrong dot com where you can learn
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: more and again just explore the movements and uh trust me,
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: you will, Uh you will. You will be very grateful
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: for the time you spent listening. More to come on
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: The Morning Show with Preston Scott