Latest / The Curve / How to Invest in Your Fertility Wisely, with Deirdre O'Neill.

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How to Invest in Your Fertility Wisely, with Deirdre O'Neill. · The Curve

0:00
So I saw an interesting stat this morning that if every woman who was on waitlists to see a gynecologist in the UK stood shoulder to shoulder, that it would span 191 miles.
0:11
One in three women has a severe gynecological condition.
0:14
One in three.
0:15
It's huge.
0:16
When we started out, people were, is this fear mongering?
0:19
Do you know what's really scary?
0:20
Not knowing.
0:21
No.
0:22
When you're devoid of any options, the really scary part is when they go, sorry, there's really nothing left that we can do.
0:28
That's scary.
0:29
It's this unspoken truth that you have to do this sort of calculation in your mind as to how long you've got to either meet someone, settle down, procreate, you know, do all the things that you used to think you'd have done by the time you were 25.
0:44
I personally, since I was about 26, have felt incredibly scared about my biological clock.
0:50
It feels like it's just ticking in the back of my head at all times.
0:53
I want to hear your interpretation on egg freezing.
0:56
What are your thoughts on this as an industry?
0:58
I think mine are actually a little bit controversial.
1:05
This is a little heads up.
1:06
In this episode, we will be touching on fertility challenges.
1:10
If this topic is close to home, we totally understand if you need to set this one out or proceed with care.
1:16
This has been an interview in the pipeline, I would say, for about a year and a half.
1:21
I can't even remember what the event was.
1:23
Do you remember where we were?
1:24
Yeah, we were at a law firm event.
1:27
We were at a firm event where I was speaking about God knows what.
1:30
Yeah, I honestly can't even remember either.
1:32
But what I loved about the way that you spoke was it was a really interesting balance of
1:38
incredibly to the point, quite almost like brutally honest, but hilarious.
1:44
Like you could tell you were unbelievably determined and believed in the business that
1:48
you were doing, like would have bet your life on the business idea.
1:53
But I think the way that you spoke about leadership, how you speak to your employees,
1:57
I found just really fascinating because it's something that I struggle with so much.
2:01
Like the people please a kind of like business leader vibe.
2:06
But I think that what you nailed was having a sense of humor within that and like being quite direct.
2:12
So let's chat about fertility, why it exists.
2:15
In fact, let's start with an elevator pitch for anyone that doesn't know what it is.
2:19
Because this just for anyone listening, when you go to raise money, everyone's like the two minute pitch, the elevator pitch.
2:25
It's apparently really important.
2:27
I'm always like, how big is your building?
2:28
How long can this elevator go on?
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Do we have 18 floors?
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So you're in a skyscraper and the lift breaks.
2:34
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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And now we have 15 minutes for me to explain my business idea.
2:39
No, so I think, so Hurtility was born out of a need for preventative, personalized,
2:46
reproductive health care across a woman's hormonal lifespan.
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So we provide advanced
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diagnostic testing, telemedicine, treatments, clinical services, prescriptions for all women
2:59
from menstruation through menopause.
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And the approach that we have was to democratise the
3:04
fertility market by making affordable, accessible, but premium healthcare for all women, irrespective
3:10
of their life stage.
3:11
So egg freezing or egg tracking or egg monitoring or diagnostics,
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So we can diagnose over 18 conditions, including PCOS, within one week with 99% diagnostic accuracy.
3:29
And we can also assess fertility decline and the onset of perimenopause and menopause.
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I mean, it's so cool to see someone pioneering the health space for women, particularly fertility, because it actually just blows my mind.
3:43
how many of my friends have bizarre symptoms when it comes to their periods, fertility.
3:49
Like I remember myself even like five years ago thinking I had polycystic ovaries and I was
3:55
getting the scan and they told me I didn't have the things.
3:57
And then, you know, I mean,
3:59
six months ago, someone said, oh no, actually that's not even how they diagnose, you know,
4:02
the fact that in 2020, they weren't even able to tell me what was going on.
4:07
It just blows my mind,
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the lack of research and the lack of support that female reproductive organs and like just the entire
4:15
research space it's bizarre so it's it's amazing to see fertility taking off and i mean you've
4:21
raised over 20 million pounds of i mean is it 29 yeah yeah holy hell i mean i just yeah it's just
4:30
so needed and it's so impressive so for people who don't understand how how the products work
4:35
or how they would interact with fertility.
4:37
It's basically order online, isn't it?
4:40
So what we wanted to do was to remove,
4:42
by having a digital interface,
4:43
you're removing the need to have an extra hurdle.
4:46
So I saw an interesting stat this morning
4:48
that if every woman who was on waitlists
4:51
to see a gynecologist in the UK
4:53
stood shoulder to shoulder,
4:55
that it would span 191 miles.
4:58
So there are 760,000 women on waitlists
5:01
to see a gynecologist.
5:02
And you can guarantee that number is doubled
5:05
when you take into consideration the people who've just gone,
5:08
okay, I'm probably fine, or who've been told it's just the way it is,
5:12
it's just part of being a woman, or been put on a pill
5:14
so that they don't go on a wait list.
5:16
So the idea was born out of a need to say,
5:21
we want to be able to circumvent the need to have extra steps.
5:25
It should be accessible in a way that fits into our life,
5:28
that fits into our busy schedule.
5:30
So how the journey works is that you, every single person,
5:33
does an online health assessment.
5:35
And in that health assessment, we ask loads of questions
5:38
about lifestyle factors, about menstrual patterns, about any kind of thing, any data point that would
5:45
have a relevance in terms of obtaining a diagnosis.
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So anything that would give us a clue as to your
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overall wellbeing.
5:52
Because the thing is, at a private fertility clinic, you will go there
5:57
if you're at the point of saying, okay, there's a problem.
6:00
Usually people will go to a fertility
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clinic if they think they might be infertile there's no effort for that for by that clinic
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to say how do we help you get pregnant naturally how do we uncover the root cause of what's going
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on how do we see is there an issue is there a structural issue is it you is it your partner
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and that's the problem i see with that it's such a reactive space and also they will only test
6:22
one hormone they'll test your they'll test your amh you'll test your egg or else maybe two
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because they get what i've had tested it's the only thing that's not the only indicator in your
6:31
reproductive health.
6:32
So AMH, to give a determination of your egg reserve, it's just not a single
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determinant of your overall fertility because there could be any underlying issues.
6:43
Like I say,
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there could be structural issues, there could be genetic issues, there could be any number of
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things.
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You could have polycystic ovaries, which is not going to give you, it's going to give you
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an elevated number of elevated AMH as well.
6:52
Of course, because you're producing more,
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there's more follicles.
6:55
Exactly.
6:56
So what we do is we will test up to 10 hormones alongside
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a really clear picture of what your lifestyle factors are.
7:03
So the, like the online health
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assessment in that health assessment, we've coded over 54,000 clinical scenarios within that
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because we wanted it to be for every woman.
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So you're asked what brings you here?
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Is it that
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you're actively trying to conceive?
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You're planning future babies?
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You have symptoms?
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Some, some people don't, you know, they just are crippled with, with conditions or symptoms.
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You think you're perimenopausal or you're menopausal.
7:25
So we've really stratified the
7:27
archetype of customer to say, we're here for you.
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And depending on the answers to your questions,
7:31
you'll be brought down a different route and we'll test different things for you.
7:35
So the test,
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once you've done your health assessment, you'll be sent a personalized test.
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It usually arrives
7:39
at your house the next day.
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And you test on the third day of your period, you test on the third
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day of bleeding.
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So that is the way to make sure that there is consistency and validation in terms
7:52
of the accuracy of the results.
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So we've done over 22 clinical trials
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in order to maintain and to obtain
8:00
a level of accuracy and confidence
8:03
in the methodology of testing,
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as well as then the results that we get,
8:07
which is where we now know
8:08
we have over 99% diagnostic accuracy,
8:11
which is, by the way,
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no one else in the whole world has ever done this.
8:15
This is not to toot my own trumpet
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because it's not my trumpet to toot,
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it's our team's trumpet.
8:20
That I just don't think can be underestimated
8:22
enough especially in a world where women are still just told just go on the pill and that is not
8:27
health care and so that is the sort of key determinant then to say if you do the test
8:33
and then you you send it off to our accredited labs your results come on a beautiful health hub
8:38
we've got a lovely app that we've we've developed um which is really intuitive we we call it the
8:43
pocket gynecologist but that kind of sounds a bit creepy like this kind of don't mind it though
8:48
Yeah, like that there's something there for you to log and symptom track and monitor and track your periods without your data being shared.
8:56
And I think that that's really important to know that your data is as secure and as safe as possible, but then book any onward next steps.
9:03
So the report that we put together, we've put an awful lot of thought into how we distill information.
9:11
And I think one of the key things we want to do is not insult women's intelligence, to say you should be able to be given information in an easy to understand language that explains what hormones we tested, why we tested them, what it means for you in the context of your overall life, and furthermore, what you can do to maybe alleviate symptoms or to improve things.
9:32
And I think that's a really important first step.
9:34
In fact, that is the single most important step that any woman should take is doing this diagnostic test because it is literally 10 times more comprehensive than a private fertility clinic, but 90% more cost effective than a private fertility clinic.
9:50
And then the alternative is you wait to go infertile on the national health system because that's basically what it tells you to do.
9:55
It also just blows my mind, like, sorry if this is a TMI, but I have done, because I've had some really weird symptoms in my life.
10:04
And I had the same.
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It was classic.
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Go on the pill.
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You're 14.
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Just block all the symptoms.
10:09
But I have had some hormone tests done.
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And I had really high testosterone.
10:14
But no one could ever tell me, okay, go and do this test or this means that.
10:18
Or no one was proactive enough to say it would be really helpful for you to learn more about what's going on with other elements within your hormones.
10:25
And when you understand how much, God, I hope I say this right, your endocrine system, right?
10:31
Endocrine, yeah.
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Shit.
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Is in control of your mood, your energy, your…
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Yeah, everything.
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Literally everything.
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It's arguably the most important thing for us to have a clear picture of.
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And yet most of us are going through being like, when are we ovulating?
10:49
What day is it?
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Or like I messaged my…
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How do you say endocrine?
10:53
Oh, my God.
10:54
I mean honestly that's the thing right it's like at school you're taught how to put a condom on and
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that's it for sex education nothing around hormones or female health and I just think that
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it should almost be that this is funded by the government and any woman can get access to it
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because I think there's a huge amount of underlying health conditions that we probably could prevent
11:14
or be at least trying to support our systems better if we knew rather just waiting for things
11:20
to get so bad before like actually trying to seek professional medical help but um can we just hear
11:27
the the founder story for anyone who either doesn't have a business or doesn't know the the
11:34
context for this sort of elevator pitch or going to get funding is that it's really important for
11:40
the the founders to be able to articulate the reason why they started the business and to give
11:46
I guess an emotional connection between there's obviously a really clear business idea and
11:52
financial opportunity by starting whatever your business is.
11:55
But to be able to communicate the
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reason why you as founders are the best people for the job, it always comes down to a personal
12:04
element.
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So your twin sister, Helen, is an amazing scientist and Natalie, as well as your other
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co-founder.
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Can you share the story, either your personal, your twin sister, all three of you and
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how you came together to be the perfect team to start this business?
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I did a master's in medical
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law and then I specialised in venture capital and M&A.
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So I was working at a large US law firm
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called Cooley, doing lots of kind of venture deals and working kind of all day, all night,
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kind of corporate slog in the most extreme sense.
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And I had access to private medical health care,
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loads of benefits.
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I had access to so many different ostensible benefits for my health
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and yet really nothing at all for my health.
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So nothing in relation to reproductive health,
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hormones, fertility, nothing at all.
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That's seen to be just, you don't talk about it.
12:57
And I think it's one of the things that is one of the most common things in the corporate world or
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in the working world is that it's this unspoken truth that you have to do this sort of calculation
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in your mind as to how long you've got.
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You've worked so hard, you've come this far.
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How long
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do you have to either meet someone, settle down, procreate, you know, do all the things that you
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used to think you'd have done by the time you were 25, which the world has kind of moved on
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from there.
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And I think from my perspective of working in that firm and seeing the impact that
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it had on my reproductive health.
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Alongside me, the fact that my identical twin sister
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is a tenured professor at University College London.
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She's lecturing masters and medical
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students about prenatal genetics and fetal medicine, which is what she did her master's
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and her PhD in.
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And she has access to every fertility expert, every gynecologist.
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She has
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access to her, you know, her co-workers and colleagues.
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And those are the people who are
13:58
the experts and pioneers in this field, whether it's in fertility or in reproductive health or
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gynecology or in genetics.
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And yet she had the exact same questions of, am I fertile?
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How long have I got?
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And her colleagues kind of told her, look, Helen, you're baby,
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reproductively speaking.
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No, actually, reproductively speaking, I'm geriatric,
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because that's the term that's been given to a mother that's over 28.
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28?
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I thought it was 35.
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No, they moved it.
14:25
No, they made it later.
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But it's 28, as beyond 28, was deemed to be a geriatric mother.
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And so the question again is that she was consistently told, just freeze your eggs, just freeze your eggs.
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I don't want to freeze my eggs.
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I want to see what my egg reserve is like.
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I want to know what I'm working with in terms of my own reproductive limitations.
14:46
And then alongside her was Dr. Gertrude.
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Natalie Gertrude is an ovarian biologist.
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and she was assessing ways to preserve women's fertility prior to cancer treatment.
14:55
And again, the question arose for her is, you know, it's all women that want to be able to
14:59
assess ways to preserve their fertility, not just women who are having cancer treatment.
15:04
And I think for the fact that the three of us had access to either care or specialised
15:09
individuals, but zero access to tangible steps for ourselves, was the real wake up call to say
15:15
that there's something missing here.
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Particularly when I was, you know, helping other companies
15:19
raise loads of money and you know doing these deals for these companies which in my mind they
15:23
had you know a fraction of the intellectual acumen of my sister and I thought this is something that
15:29
we should be this we should be bringing this we should be without sounding bad we should be
15:33
commercializing this in a way that makes it tangible for women because it's not available
15:37
on the national health system nor will it ever be because it's too expensive to be it's too
15:41
it's too detailed it's too difficult and it would never be done.
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Helen is the CEO she is the genius
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of all of the clinical and diagnostic aspects of it.
15:51
The way her mind works is fascinating.
15:54
And so we often, you know, the CEO,
15:56
we call her chief enthusiastic officer
15:58
because she's always got a new idea.
15:59
She's got a new thing that's going to help propel
16:02
the world of healthcare for women.
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And honestly, the thing that I find the hardest
16:08
is that as her sister and as the kind of the VC lawyer,
16:13
I haven't been able to get more money for her
16:16
to be able to help more lives
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because that's the only bottleneck.
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That has been our only bottleneck.
16:21
And I think of the billions of women
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whose lives could be improved
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if they had access to the healthcare ideas
16:30
that she has just written on paper.
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I would love to be able to help catapult her ideas
16:38
to be able to really change the world.
16:41
Also, what an amazing dynamic
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where your almost sole purpose is to prop her up
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and get her money to make, you know, these products more accessible.
16:52
And I think traditionally people will always be saying,
16:54
like, who's the smart one?
16:56
Who's the bad one?
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And we're like, we're both smart, we're both bad.
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And people will always kind of pit you against each other.
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But we have such distinct skill sets that we just complement each other.
17:06
And same with Natalie.
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Natalie complements as well.
17:07
So Nat's COO.
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so she deals with all of the sort of operational things that we don't have the brain space or the
17:14
ability for so it does work it's the we're a perfect triangle that works really well
17:19
and so for someone that doesn't maybe understand the from testing to implementation can you just
17:26
explain that yeah so I think I think what's missing really in health care is the fact that
17:31
women are sort of left adrift and even if you do get a blood test how do you interpret it how do
17:37
you really recognize what you need to do next?
17:39
And one of the things we were dedicated to from
17:42
the very beginning with Hurtility was not just provide test results, because there's so much
17:48
in it.
17:48
There's so many next steps that you don't want to be left to Google what you do next,
17:54
because all you're going to get is whatever clinic has paid the most in terms of SEO.
17:58
For any individual, they'll have a really comprehensive health report about all of their
18:04
hormones, what we've tested, what it means for them, but also their next steps in the context
18:07
of what they said that they were there for.
18:10
So if there is something that needs further
18:12
investigation, firstly, all of the advanced tests now comes with a clinical results review call.
18:17
So everyone gets that additional clinical guidance so they can have a call with someone
18:22
to walk through their results and the next steps.
18:25
And we really made this to be as handholdy as
18:28
possible because we really know that this is a minefield.
18:32
And in terms of the information,
18:33
people might receive information they weren't expecting.
18:35
So we have counsellors, people might
18:37
have, get a diagnosis of a condition that's a metabolic condition.
18:41
So they're heavily impacted
18:43
by your nutrition.
18:43
So we have nutritionists.
18:45
And so the, I think the steps that someone can take,
18:48
you know, there's one story of someone who found out that they, she was 28, but she had the egg
18:54
reserve of someone who was 44.
18:56
And she was in primary ovarian insufficiency, so early menopause.
19:01
And the number of people who go into early menopause is actually one in 100.
19:05
It's not that small a number.
19:07
The common conditions that impact women are so prevalent.
19:11
So it's, you know, one in 10 for endometriosis, one in 10 for PCOS, one in three women has a severe gynecological condition.
19:17
One in three, it's huge.
19:19
And so I think the fact that we're so conditioned to normalize it, oftentimes when you help someone and you give them the proactive steps to be able to do something about it, that can genuinely change the direction of their life for the better.
19:32
So I think when people see that they can take tangible next steps or they go through a journey that helps them to conceive, you know, there's a lot of gratitude in that.
19:41
Well, I think the point you just made is really interesting because say I was in that situation and I found out tomorrow that I had a, you know, I was in, is it perimenopause?
19:51
God, it's so bad how little I know about this.
19:54
but you're not alone
19:55
you know we walked around
19:56
we did a vox op
19:57
to say can you name
19:58
three Kardashians
19:59
and everyone's like
20:00
yeah sure Kim
20:00
whoever and however
20:02
that goes to tell you
20:03
my knowledge of Kardashians
20:04
but then we said
20:05
now can you name
20:06
three parts of your
20:06
reproductive anatomy
20:07
and there was an awful
20:08
lot of feet shuffling
20:09
and looking at the ground
20:11
and that'll tell you
20:13
you know this is
20:13
this is the organ
20:15
your uterus organ
20:16
is that brought
20:17
brought you into life
20:18
and will bring another
20:19
life into life
20:19
it is the way we are created
20:21
and yet
20:22
this is why
20:23
we're in such a crisis
20:24
point in terms of our education and our prioritization of the information we feed
20:29
ourselves with because we will watch endless amounts of shite and fuel ourselves full of
20:37
total nonsense and have any amount of information at our fingertips more now than ever and yet when
20:43
it comes to the thing that impacts our skin our mood our weight our metabolism our sex drive our
20:48
fertility we're like what's a fallopian tube what exactly oh did you get a fallopian tube to work
20:54
today yeah it's an egg like I mean it's really ridiculous
21:02
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And back to the podcast.
21:39
I would love to talk about investing in your fertility, stepping aside from tests and
21:44
understanding what's going on.
21:45
Because to be honest, anyone, whether you're a man or woman,
21:50
whether you've got this or that there is always a business that is trying to make money off of
21:55
something that you're scared about and I think that a huge amount of women between the ages of
22:01
26 and 39 thinking about the fact that they both want a career they would also perhaps maybe like
22:08
to have kids and I personally since I was about 26 have felt incredibly scared about my biological
22:16
clock.
22:16
It feels like it's just ticking in the back of my head at all times.
22:20
I mean, I remember when
22:21
I was living in Sydney, I looked up egg freezing and I, you know, I've, I just haven't been in a
22:27
position where I've had $10,000 since then.
22:29
And look, maybe if I'd reprioritized and I hadn't
22:33
invested in a property or I hadn't done this, you know, I could have had my eggs frozen, but it's
22:38
been one of those things that's been on my list for years.
22:42
And I just, I just haven't felt like
22:45
I've had the money to do it.
22:46
And yeah, as you say, whether it's Googling something or speaking to a
22:49
friend or whatever, or you go into an IVF clinic, the way that they speak to you about your fertility
22:54
is really scary.
22:56
I want to hear your interpretation on egg freezing and whether or not you feel it's
23:00
a valid investment.
23:02
Is it just blanket across the board?
23:03
It's a great investment.
23:04
You should
23:05
do it early.
23:06
What are your thoughts on this as an industry?
23:08
I think mine are actually a little
23:10
bit controversial.
23:11
Great.
23:12
Because I think that there is such an overestimation on maybe the
23:18
success rates of egg freezing.
23:21
And I think that it is a form of insurance, but it is not a guarantee.
23:27
And I think that a lot of the people who are being pushed towards it, it is a societal pressure.
23:32
It
23:32
is a push, it's a drive to say, you should be doing this.
23:35
Like we should be doing so many things.
23:36
Like, how could we not be doing more?
23:38
You are expected to do more, be more, be more successful, have a job, have a baby, travel the world, look gorgeous.
23:45
And I think that these are the pressures that are put on women all the time.
23:50
And egg freezing is just one of them.
23:52
I think in my view, tracking your egg reserve decline.
23:56
So testing annually, biannually, knowing what your rate of egg reserve decline is, is a far more powerful indicator than freezing your eggs.
24:06
Putting yourself through an extraneous process physiologically and psychologically to freeze your eggs.
24:13
It's not an easy, you know, it's not an easy process and it's not bulletproof.
24:18
So I think for me, the emphasis that I would have would be to say, if you can track and monitor your egg reserve, so you do a fertility test every year.
24:29
And if you saw that you were getting to a point that you thought, well, I'm nowhere near having a partner or nowhere near this point, then maybe think about it.
24:38
Which is slightly contrary to the idea that you should do it as young as you can, because you have a higher egg reserve.
24:45
the reality is that women need to become accustomed to the idea that they have limitations
24:52
on their reproductive lifespan and that's the thing everything now has a trigger warning
24:57
disclaimer i give webinars and seminars and i have to have a trigger warning at the beginning
25:01
like trigger warning life's not going to give you a trigger warning but this is the greatest
25:05
trigger warning you'd get if you be if you can actually know and assess your ovarian reserve
25:09
and assess your hormones, that's the biggest preparation you could make.
25:15
I think that if you
25:16
knew that you had a limitation, you might approach things differently.
25:20
Whereas if you think, got those
25:22
eggs on ice, I'm grand for a long time.
25:25
Maybe you don't make the right decisions.
25:27
Maybe you do.
25:28
It's actually a really tough one to call.
25:30
But I know that for me, the age that I would get to
25:34
where people are still saying, well, you should freeze your eggs.
25:37
I would say, do you know what,
25:38
consider alternative routes consider fertilizing those eggs if it if it's in any way possible
25:43
consider the alternative things do you mean freezing an embryo no i mean that there's so
25:49
much of an emphasis on saying freeze your eggs instead of saying like for a lot of people they're
25:54
they're in a relationship they're in a stable relationship they have a partner and then they
25:58
should say well should we fertilize these eggs should we actually go for it should we try and
26:02
have a baby at some point or should we know that the point of time that we're going to plan ahead
26:06
because of the potential limitations of this,
26:09
because of the potential heartache.
26:12
And I always put it in the context of my own experience.
26:15
So I have two daughters, Saoirse and Aoife.
26:19
Yeah, I was 35 when I had Saoirse and 36 when I had Aoife.
26:23
Shit, so you did it a year apart.
26:24
Yeah, yeah.
26:25
And was that because of...
26:26
That was because I tested my...
26:28
I did a fertility test in January
26:30
and then I did a fertility test in March.
26:32
And my egg reserve had dropped in that three months
26:36
more than I personally expected it to have dropped in three years.
26:39
And I said, okay,
26:41
I have two hard decisions here at 35, then sort of 35 and a half.
26:45
I have two hard decisions.
26:48
One of them is to say, this is not a good time for me to have a baby.
26:51
I've got a very, very
26:53
full on company.
26:54
We're just starting out.
26:55
We're, you know, in the middle of getting our regulations,
26:57
we're doing all this stuff.
26:58
You know, you think the corporate law firm hours were bad.
27:01
This was
27:01
next level.
27:02
And I thought, well, one of them is to put it off and potentially risk maybe having
27:06
to have IVF.
27:07
The other is to have a baby much sooner than I want to.
27:11
So I'd have two under two
27:13
and I chose my heart.
27:14
They're both hard decisions.
27:15
And sometimes I think the reality is, is it's
27:18
a rock in a hard place decision and make the decision that you prefer.
27:21
Do you prefer the rock
27:22
or do you prefer the hard place?
27:24
And that's not to scare, but it's to say, if we don't become
27:26
accustomed to the realities of our biological limitations then we're going to have a hard time
27:34
inevitably we're going to have a hard time in some respect maybe okay i know every single situation
27:39
is completely different but let's just use me as an example i've thought about the egg freezing
27:44
investment for probably eight years i haven't done it but why haven't you done a fertility test
27:51
I'm genuinely curious why.
27:53
To me, I cannot understand why every single woman wouldn't do it.
27:57
Well, I mean, now I'm obviously going to.
27:59
But the thing is, so here's the thing that baffles me.
28:02
The UK is one of the only places in the whole world
28:05
where people will wait to get sicker rather than pay for health care
28:08
because they have a national right to free health care.
28:11
And so there's this ingrained belief
28:13
that you have this God-given right to free health care at all costs.
28:18
And the cost is often so high.
28:21
So people will sit on a wait list to see a gynecologist for two years.
28:24
They'll sit along 760,000 women to see a gynecologist.
28:29
And along that time that they've waited, they've slowly become worse.
28:32
Their condition has worsened.
28:34
Their life has been destroyed.
28:36
Their relationship has been impacted.
28:37
this is the thing I can't understand about the healthcare system here is that people could get
28:42
help people could use our service people and yet there is this hesitation and yet people go oh
28:49
I shouldn't I shouldn't have to pay for that but if you think about it why shouldn't you have to
28:54
pay for years and years oh I'm like Helen and Natalie they've had over 20 years of expertise
28:59
we've conducted over 22 clinical trials we've spent seven years perfecting and dedicating
29:06
ourselves to the data to uncover and reduce and reduce radically reduce diagnosis times for
29:12
conditions for women and yet the perspective women have here is that no I shouldn't have to pay
29:16
anything for health care even though we have democratized the fertility market to the point
29:20
where we our margins are very little we actually if we if you thought we were a company that wanted
29:24
to make money part of the reason why we struggled to get investment is that we didn't charge women
29:30
more because we wanted to make it affordable and accessible the the reason clinics charge two and
29:35
half thousand pounds to test one hormone or two hormones and we charge 249 pounds to test 10
29:42
plus align align it with clinical expertise a consult with a gynecologist all of these different
29:46
things that the step that you haven't taken even though you're kept awake at night you
29:51
hear the ticking in your head that's the thing that i would love to know why aren't women taking
29:57
that step i don't think it's that i it's not that i don't want to spend 250 pounds it's actually not
30:02
that.
30:03
I just don't think that I, I think that I've been ignorant to prioritizing or also perhaps
30:09
scared of what the answer will tell me.
30:11
I don't think that it's, it's not a barrier of like
30:14
finances.
30:15
It's not, it's, it's purely because I haven't prioritized it.
30:19
And also I only have
30:21
just started seeing someone I've been very single for a long time.
30:25
And so I've thought
30:26
if the answer is not what I want, what do I do?
30:30
Well, then what do you do if in three years
30:32
time you can't do anything about it that's the thing that I can never again grapple with I get
30:37
this whole idea and for a lot of the time when we started out people were is this fear-mongering
30:43
do you know what's really scary not knowing no when you're devoid of any options yeah the really
30:49
scary part is when they go sorry there's really nothing left that we can do that's scary finding
30:55
out proactively and having enough time or having enough ability to do something about it that's a
31:02
emancipation.
31:03
That's not exploitation.
31:04
And that's the thing that people need to get their heads
31:06
around.
31:06
Because when it comes to this, people often say, isn't this, is it exploiting women
31:12
to be able to help them find out about their reproductive?
31:14
No, it's not.
31:16
It is absolutely
31:17
providing them with the reproductive autonomy and the empowerment to say, hey, we're going to arm
31:22
you with everything you need because this is going to be a war.
31:25
We're going to give you all of the
31:26
armour you need.
31:27
We're going to prepare you to defend your body and to be as prepared as you
31:31
possibly can for the big bad wolf that is the world and we're going to help you as much as we
31:37
possibly can that is the greatest gift that anyone could have and often we go to any other country in
31:42
the world they're like oh please can you bring this to Australia please can you bring this to
31:45
America please can you bring this to and yet in the UK should be on the end Jess I actually think
31:52
it's quite similar to the idea of people not doing anything about their finances even though they
31:58
know.
31:58
There's like this sort of underlying fear and worry.
32:03
And like, it really does take something
32:06
to be going on for you to actually take action.
32:08
And I think for me, because all I've thought is
32:10
the only option is get your eggs frozen.
32:13
I've just avoided because I know that's not a financial
32:15
position I'm in to be able to make that decision.
32:17
So I think that it's just a wider education piece
32:21
around knowing your financial situation or knowing your fertility and the state in which
32:27
everything is at gives you options and the chance to do things differently.
32:31
But because we think,
32:34
oh, you need millions of dollars to invest, therefore why bother learning about my finances?
32:38
Or you need 10,000 pounds to even think about improving your fertility.
32:43
People just avoid
32:44
because they think they can't do anything.
32:47
And I think that's probably more of the issue.
32:49
And if you think about it, when you spell it out like that, if you don't proactively do something and you do then inevitably, if you do need fertility intervention, what do you think that's going to cost?
32:59
The cost of fertility intervention is so much more.
33:03
I met a woman who said she remortgaged her house to pay for it.
33:06
She said, oh my God, I wish fertility existed when I was trying to have children because I had to remortgage my house because I spent so much on the entire process of multiple rounds of IVF.
33:17
and that sort of process that nearly destroyed her life.
33:21
And I think that if people could see the potential money
33:24
that they would spend if they don't proactively assess,
33:27
then they would definitely reassess.
33:28
And I oftentimes think that the approach,
33:30
even in terms of the NHS, is, you know,
33:33
the way that the NHS says you have to be actively trying to conceive
33:36
for two years before.
33:38
That's like saying, wait, we see you've got a tumour,
33:40
but let's just see how big it gets before we assess you for anything else.
33:43
Like it genuinely is knowing that you're 88% of a woman's egg reserve is gone by the age of 30.
33:49
And yet they're saying, just keep waiting.
33:51
Just wait.
33:52
We'll put you on a wait list.
33:53
It's actually negligent.
33:55
At what point would you say, because I love what you said about get the full picture of what your fertility looks like before you make a decision as to what your next steps are.
34:05
And obviously the whole point of fertility is that you point out what they could do and the practical next steps.
34:11
for someone who hasn't done the test obviously go do it but in what situation would you say
34:18
investing and getting your eggs frozen is a good investment like if you were to if you were to
34:22
spell out if this is you then yeah maybe consider it so we we do provide the i mean i i'm doing
34:28
myself a disservice here by not saying everyone should go get their eggs frozen because we provide
34:32
this we provide this service through so the whole journey we do a whole egg freezing pathway so
34:38
we've got this we've catered for people who want to do it but the first step is always to obviously
34:43
assess your hormones assess your egg to do the test we wouldn't I wouldn't dream of saying that
34:48
someone should ever walk into a clinic and say I want to freeze my eggs without having done a
34:52
hereditary test.
34:52
Because we all think that it's based on age.
34:54
It's such a variable look at your
34:55
look at your skin think about your eggs in the same way that you think about your skin there are
34:59
some 30 year olds that look 35 there's some 40 year olds that look 55 and it's all dependent on
35:06
our lifestyle factors, our exposures, our, the sun damage, our genetics.
35:12
There's also predisposition, right?
35:14
Yeah.
35:14
There's so many different things that can impact how your skin looks and your eggs are
35:19
no different.
35:19
So what have you been exposed to?
35:21
You know, there's, is it a genetic thing?
35:23
Is it a lifestyle thing?
35:25
You know, are you a vapor?
35:26
Are you, do you drink loads?
35:28
Do you, these are the things that will impact your eggs.
35:30
These are the things that have, and that's why I think having that, this health assessment
35:34
that we do, it really seeks to uncover what are the key determinants in terms of giving you an
35:39
overall picture of your reproductive health, not just your egg reserve.
35:43
I think the reality is,
35:44
is that there's no, there's no perfect situation.
35:45
And one of the things that we've recognised
35:47
is that no woman is the same, no woman at all in terms of their exposures or their lifestyle or
35:56
like any conditions they might have, no woman is the same.
35:59
We all bleed in different ways,
36:01
experience pain in different ways, have different symptoms.
36:04
One of the key things that we recognize
36:05
as well is that through our data, so we've got a health assessment data of over a million women.
36:11
And one of the most common symptoms is anxiety.
36:16
So that goes to show menstrual health and mental
36:18
health are inextricably linked.
36:21
And some of the key symptoms that we see...
36:23
Sorry, quickly.
36:23
Do you mean if you're anxious, you are less fertile?
36:28
No, no, no, absolutely not.
36:30
Please do not clickbait me on that one.
36:32
I would die in the comments sections.
36:35
Is there any anxiety going on?
36:37
No, but the point is, is that we're listening to women who are worried, they're anxious, whether it's about their job or about their fertility or about the condition that they might have.
36:46
Anxiety is a huge impact or is a huge symptom that we see across women.
36:53
And I think that that can't be underestimated, that we have stressful lives.
36:57
I think one of the other things that we see in the data is that when people, so one of the questions is, have you ever been diagnosed with something?
37:04
Yes, I've been diagnosed with something.
37:06
No, I haven't.
37:07
No, I haven't, but I suspect something's up.
37:10
In 96 or 86, it's an unbelievably high number of women, almost all women, when they say, no, I haven't been diagnosed, but I suspect something's up, they have a hormone out of range.
37:20
They have a diagnosable condition.
37:22
It goes to show that a woman's intuition in terms of her well-being is on point.
37:27
And I think that then when we look at the fact that every woman can be exposed to something different, every woman could, you could ostensibly be healthy and still struggle to conceive.
37:36
You could ostensibly have no, like, no gynecological conditions or no real things, no hormones out of range.
37:44
And yet you still might struggle because of the stress environment that you're in or because of key determining factors.
37:50
obviously not going there
37:51
in terms of partner
37:51
because it could always
37:52
be the guy's fault
37:53
and you can't underestimate that
37:55
it's 50-50
37:56
but I think
37:57
if you
37:58
if you wanted to do it
37:59
it's better to do it
38:01
earlier rather than later
38:02
your egg quality
38:03
is obviously
38:05
better
38:05
and it deteriorates
38:06
as you get older
38:07
it's better when you're younger
38:09
and define younger
38:10
like I say under 30
38:11
again though
38:11
I think it depends on
38:12
you know your skin
38:13
there's some 30 year olds
38:14
I don't want to
38:15
I don't want a pigeonhole
38:16
just to be like
38:16
oh you're too old now
38:17
because you know
38:18
I had
38:18
I had my first child at 35, then another at 36 and I had no problems there.
38:23
And I think that that's, that's fine for me because I was able to assess what my reproductive
38:28
health looked like.
38:29
There's some, like I mentioned, there's some 28 year olds who, if they'd waited until they
38:33
were even 30, would probably never have had the chance to conceive naturally.
38:37
So it's actually really not like, I think what they do is try, like when I say the fertility
38:42
industry is quite like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
38:44
But it's actually know what's going on in more detail to be able to make the decision if that's an investment that makes sense for you.
38:50
It's just every woman is individual to themselves.
38:53
And this is one of the key things why I can't understand why every single woman wouldn't do a test because we are all different.
38:59
And everyone assumes that they are healthy and everyone assumes that they are not the one in six couples that are infertile.
39:06
But it's one in six are infertile.
39:08
Why roll the dice?
39:09
you know what would you say are some of the other key considerations that someone should ask
39:15
themselves when it comes to deciding like once they've got a picture of their hormones and if
39:21
they think actually yeah do you know what I'm not in a position to have a kid right now and I would
39:25
love to try and preserve my fertility what are some of the other key considerations or things
39:30
to think about when it comes to investing in your fertility first things first I would say
39:34
if you are planning on doing an egg freezing journey and you've done your fertility test
39:38
and you've gotten your results, there's a huge, huge emphasis on taking care of your body before
39:46
that journey.
39:46
You want your eggs to be an optimum quality.
39:49
You are at a point where you can actually
39:52
impact your egg quality in a way from lifestyle factors.
39:56
That meaning, eat well, don't do drugs,
40:01
don't drink alcohol.
40:02
Like it is the three, so for women, it's, you know, that three months
40:07
beforehand is really important before you freeze eggs for women it's slightly longer but for men
40:12
the male sperm cycle is is three months so the man whatever about anything else if if a man wants to
40:19
to um if you want to have a baby you want to make sure your partner for three months before
40:23
is as clean as you are because it's a complete misnomer that it's all on the woman it's actually
40:28
not um well that's so weird and like off-brand for the whole medical industry it's strange
40:33
really weird
40:34
how strange
40:34
yeah
40:35
it's all in the
40:35
world
40:35
how strange
40:37
and so
40:38
for
40:39
for women as
40:39
well
40:40
you know
40:40
cut out the
40:40
alcohol
40:41
be holier than
40:43
thou
40:43
pure as you
40:44
can be
40:44
no caffeine
40:45
I'm imagining
40:45
you know
40:46
I think like
40:46
caffeine I
40:47
would say
40:48
I'm not here
40:49
grinding up
40:51
coffee and
40:52
snorting it
40:52
like I
40:53
really kind of
40:54
question about
40:55
the pulling back
40:56
now I'm not the
40:57
scientist so don't
40:57
call me out on that
40:58
at all but I
40:59
I think like
41:00
you just be
41:01
mindful of the
41:02
process be
41:02
mindful of looking after your body be mindful of the and the reason i say that is because so often
41:07
we will see people who they're saying i can't understand such a healthy lifestyle you know
41:13
kale smoothies monday to friday but it's ketamine on saturday so you know it's like the balance
41:19
of shining your halo on monday to friday and then the weekend it's like so weird i did an
41:25
esoteric but like i don't know why my eggs aren't freezing properly yeah yeah or the number of
41:29
people who are doing um drugs while they're actively trying to conceive it's staggeringly
41:34
high and vaping we say no vape no grape okay yeah love it so basically looking after your body and
41:40
investing in your health is a really really clever way yeah and i'm assuming it's the same if you're
41:46
going to go and invest in egg freezing right like it's like exactly prepare your body for that but
41:50
prepare your body for the egg freezing as you would prepare your body for a pregnancy just
41:54
what would be the harm of making sure that you're in as healthy position as possible
41:58
before you go through that process.
42:00
Okay.
42:01
And also, if someone's in a relationship
42:03
and they're thinking,
42:05
I do think I want to have kids
42:06
with the person that I'm with,
42:07
would you say investing in freezing embryos
42:11
is better than getting your eggs frozen?
42:14
Is there like any way to think about,
42:15
because generally when you get to the IVF stage,
42:19
it's more expensive.
42:20
And I guess the chances of eggs-
42:22
IVF should be avoided at all costs.
42:24
I honestly do.
42:25
I think this idea that the corporate world
42:27
has brought in to say we'll freeze your eggs for you just keep working through your fertile years
42:32
i actually did want to ask you about this this to me is is the kind of slightly under hand corrupt
42:38
thing to be like this is a great benefit why don't you freeze your eggs but just keep working
42:43
through your fertile years we'll pay for you to have ivf just keep working just just don't step
42:48
off don't have a baby because we're going to pay for you to buy the f that like i think there's
42:51
something really wrong with that it's so interesting to hear you say that this is why we provide it as
42:56
benefit in workplaces because I think instead of saying hey we'll pay for you to have IVF or we'll
43:00
pay for you to freeze your eggs companies should be saying hey we'll pay to prevent you ever needing
43:04
IVF we'll pay to help you monitor your egg reserve help you you know having doing a fertility test
43:09
annually we'll pay for that pay for that as a benefit pay for you to have your own private
43:14
gynecologist but don't say hey whatever you do don't have a baby because we want to pay for you
43:19
to do the opposite of that and yet it seemed to be this amazing benefit I'm still need you to
43:25
explain more about why you think this is corrupt and bad because if i was at a business and they
43:29
said we'll pay for your ivf and pay for your egg freezing i would think perfect because i actually
43:33
am not ready to have a baby yet and i know that it's corrupt it's not that it's because i think
43:37
there's some it's well meant i think that is well intended no look i'm happy to have my mind changed
43:42
i just want to understand more about why i think that there's more to it than that i think the
43:46
message shouldn't just be that a woman should just keep working at the potential detriment of her
43:52
health and the potential detriment of her fertility because they're they're willing to
43:57
pay for that problem to go away the reality is is that if you are in reproductive decline or if
44:03
you're in key reproductive years the answer shouldn't be avoid having a kid okay here's the
44:08
analogy you will pay for you to have chemotherapy we will not pay to screen you for cancers
44:15
it's if there's something about it it's paying for the problem rather than pre-empting exactly
44:19
Exactly.
44:20
And it underestimates the fact that IVF is incredibly invasive, physiologically, biologically, psychologically, financially.
44:28
It impacts the person that goes through it in the most profound way.
44:32
And it impacts their partner and it impacts their co-workers.
44:35
How is that seen as a solution?
44:37
That should be something we say, we should pay for you to avoid ever needing to go through that because that's really difficult.
44:44
What about people who know that they're not ready to have a baby yet?
44:49
And I guess what would you say to someone that knows they want to be a mother, wants to invest in their fertility, maybe have done their screening and they see what's going on and they're aware that actually maybe they're not in the most ideal position?
45:04
That's most women.
45:05
That's so many women.
45:06
And I think it's impossible for me to have the answers.
45:09
Here's the only thing that I can say, because I can see a load of people being like, that's all very fine.
45:13
But I've got, you know, a shitty boyfriend or I've got no finances or that's all very fine.
45:19
I can't sit here and say what I think any woman should do because that's not my place.
45:26
All I can sit here and do is say we've built something that arms you with the appropriate tools to be as proactive about your reproductive health as possible.
45:35
With that information is up to you.
45:37
whatever you do next and whatever you do with that is up to you but know that we've created
45:41
something that helps you along the way in as much as we can possibly do because I do think when you
45:47
don't know when you don't know something it's much scarier it's it's almost like if I liken it to
45:54
when I was in my incredibly avoidant um financial phase which you know may or may not have slipped
46:00
back into recently I avoid my my accounts I don't want to look at them because I'm so scared about
46:05
what I'm going to see in this.
46:07
But as soon as I look at them and I know what's going on,
46:10
I actually feel the anxiety dissipate.
46:13
But it is the, you need the courage to look at what the
46:17
reality is to be able to make a decision about how you then spend your money.
46:20
And it's the same
46:21
thing with your fertility.
46:22
If you don't have the clear picture, you can't make a decision.
46:26
It also might be bad news, you know?
46:27
Yeah.
46:27
I mean, I might look and say I've got 20 million in my account.
46:30
There's so many people that come to us and be like, oh, such a weight off my mind,
46:34
because I was like, I'm fine.
46:37
That's the reality is, is that like, we can talk about the doom and
46:39
gloom and the far end situations or the worst case scenarios.
46:44
But for so many women, they say,
46:46
Jesus, why didn't I do that sooner?
46:47
It's a weight off my mind.
46:48
What a relief.
46:49
I'm actually,
46:50
I'm actually perfectly fine.
46:51
I'm really healthy.
46:52
Everything's in range.
46:54
That's actually the, you
46:55
know, the reality for so many women or to say, wow, actually I, I wasn't wrong.
47:01
I do have something
47:02
that is definitive.
47:03
I do have a reason like for PCOS.
47:05
There was a woman who at an event came up
47:07
and hugged me and Helen and she said, Oh my God, thank you.
47:10
I did a fertility test and I got a PCOS
47:12
diagnosis.
47:12
And we were like, sorry.
47:14
And she was like, no, I can't explain to you.
47:16
I've spent years,
47:18
nearly a decade trying to get answers.
47:20
And I've been medically gassed that I've been told you
47:22
just need to lose weight.
47:23
And PCOS is a metabolic condition.
47:25
You know, it's really difficult.
47:27
so for a lot of people getting that answer diagnosis isn't scary it's a complete relief
47:33
because they've been gaslit their whole life and it's like someone being like no you're right your
47:37
symptoms are real your pain is valid yeah yeah yeah okay i would like to put a question to you
47:42
so i am really hoping that the person i'm oh my god he's kind of my boyfriend i can't even believe
47:47
it's so weird i haven't been in a relationship for a really long time but we really hope he
47:52
doesn't listen to this podcast however we've been dating for a grand total of three months
47:58
so obviously a really long time I'm obviously convinced I'm not going to avoid my hormones
48:04
any longer I'm going to be getting my fertility test can't wait what if it comes back and says
48:10
you actually probably need to hop skip and jump into the bedroom and make a baby ASAP
48:17
what do I do you know like that's a really confronting thing especially either if you're
48:21
single or in an early relationship and it's the reality for so many people that's why I always
48:27
talk about the life arithmetic of like adding up how much time you have left how long you can wait
48:33
before it's weird to bring up a conversation with someone that you've only just met and and I think
48:39
that there isn't a single answer you only you can really know what's right for you only you can know
48:44
I really hate that you're doing the therapist thing where it's like all the answers are inside
48:48
I can't because again you know this is I was saying the comment section is where I go to die
48:55
because I feel like everyone's got an opinion because everyone's got a story so everyone's
48:58
hurting in some way so you might say something that really cuts against the grain for them and
49:02
bear in mind often oftentimes our audiences is someone it can range from someone who's just
49:08
high-fiving their ovaries or someone who's what wants to check in on their hormonal acne
49:12
to someone who's had multiple baby loss and so like the the tone of voice you use in the language
49:16
that we use is we're really really careful with that but we also we are dealing with hormonal
49:22
women understandably so and our hormones are not just a bad thing they're a great thing
49:26
but you're the the reactions you will get from people because you just don't know what any what
49:32
secrets people have or what people are going through or what people how people have suffered
49:37
already it's it makes it really hard to determine and make a decision and say this is what you
49:41
should do because only you know what's good for you oh god okay i'm gonna get my test who is this
49:46
guy what's he like he's really cool i really like him i'm a baby he's so great but we had it we had
49:52
a lunch the other day and his friends came around with their baby it was just like one of those
49:56
scenarios where you're like oh god but i can't imagine how that sinks into my existing life
50:04
which i know it's the whole no i know you're never gonna know but you can't and that's because
50:09
your brain physiology changes when you become pregnant and when you have a baby and so does
50:15
your partner so you you can never know and I often think and I often think that my my views are are
50:21
actually kind of controversial on this and I I wait for the time where someone's going to absolutely
50:26
rugby tackle me with the views of of babies are a great thing and if it's tragic if people can't
50:32
have them and they want to have them and that's the situation what we want to help to avoid but
50:37
so many people are fed with this narrative of, well, I don't even know if I want to have babies
50:41
or I don't even know if I should.
50:41
And they're, they're propelled by maybe someone else's voice.
50:44
I met a woman and she was actually in her late twenties and she said, no, none of my friends,
50:49
we've all said when none of us are going to have babies, um, because, you know, travel and career
50:54
in our life is just too important to us.
50:57
I just, I was like lost for words that it could be this
50:59
kind of almost, you know, group decision approach when your hormones can change and fluctuate to
51:06
the point where even in terms of like ovulation where you will want it more or want it less but
51:11
you'll never actually truly know what heart explosion it is to hold your own baby in your
51:17
arms and I think to to make a decision so categorically it's like saying I will I'll
51:25
never listen to music again but you haven't heard them you've never listened to the best song of
51:29
your whole life it's like saying I don't like music but you haven't heard it play you haven't
51:33
seen how it makes you dance you haven't heard you know the absolute rhythm that it can bring to your
51:38
life and it's a totally different rhythm and it's a different it's a different dance for sure but
51:43
it's a great one I mean I I see a lot of child free content online as well and I must say as a
51:50
34 year old woman who has been single for a long time it's actually quite a relief to see that you
51:55
can have a really amazing successful full life whether you have kids or not and I think that
52:01
It's a really nice alternative to the Euro failed woman who's going to have 50 cats when you're 50 if you don't have children.
52:08
So I actually.
52:09
It's so unfair.
52:09
Like, it's so unfair.
52:10
Women have this huge pressure on them all the time to just have this higher degree of living than male counterparts ever are expected to.
52:22
It's just highly unfair.
52:25
And I agree.
52:25
Yeah, I agree.
52:26
And I think that there's people who just categorically know they've never, ever wanted a child.
52:31
They don't look at kids and think they're cute and they just know it's not for them.
52:34
Yeah.
52:34
And then there's people who aren't sure.
52:36
But, you know, I think I appreciate, I personally appreciate the child-free content because it makes me feel like, yeah, I'm not going to be a failure if I don't.
52:46
I don't think women should ever be seen to be a failure for what decision they make in their life.
52:52
Men aren't.
52:53
but it's not even we don't say a man is a failure because he's decided to go child free we don't say
52:58
and yet for women we're held against this different bar but it's even I guess for me like
53:02
as someone who knows I would love to be a mom like I always have known that and I actually really
53:07
explored it within myself a few years ago where I was thinking is this a societal conditioning or do
53:12
I really want this and I really do want it but it's also that's okay too I think it's become
53:17
unfashionable to say that you want to be a mother it's a it's become unfashionable to like coup over
53:22
a baby or to be broody or to, and that's actually, it's, it's hormonally quite expected that you
53:28
would feel like that or, and it's, it's innate oftentimes when it seemed to be somehow uncool
53:33
now.
53:33
And that's why when this, when this, you know, 20 something year old told me that like,
53:36
you know, none of us are doing it.
53:38
It was like this statement of like solidarity that was so
53:43
on, on based in truth, um, that I just thought, okay.
53:48
And I guess for me, it's like there's the decision to not, right?
53:51
But then there's also someone like me, say, three months ago.
53:54
It's not a decision.
53:56
I would love to, but I wasn't with anyone.
53:59
So, you know, I would love to be a mom, but I can't financially afford to do that on my own.
54:05
I also don't think emotionally I could do that on my own.
54:07
So there are also people that are sort of forced into the idea of being child-free because either they're not fertile or they don't have a partner or they don't have the money or for whatever reason.
54:18
but I think all of this comes down to like invest in getting the full picture so you can decide what
54:23
you want to do because it might also be that you're 34 and not you're not investing any time
54:28
into dating because you love your career but if you knew that your fertile years were perhaps less
54:34
than you thought you might actually be prioritizing downloading hinge and going on some dates and
54:38
meeting somebody for anyone that would like to find out more about what you're doing
54:43
obviously order their fertility test.
54:46
Yeah, we've got loads of resources.
54:47
We've got loads of webinars that we publish.
54:49
We've got loads of information.
54:50
You know, honestly, if you wanted to assess
54:52
whether egg freezing is right for you,
54:54
we've done loads of egg freezing webinars
54:56
and seminars and education sessions.
54:58
So like, you know, tune into our socials,
55:00
you know, look us up on YouTube.
55:03
We're educators.
55:03
We're a team of researchers and scientists
55:05
and educating women is the key thing.
55:08
It isn't, I don't think anyone should be expected
55:10
to dive into the deep end
55:12
without doing their research and reading about it.
55:14
So we've got a knowledge center on the website
55:16
with loads of resources and, you know,
55:18
take your time with it.
55:19
They've been put together by a really excellent team
55:22
and learn about it, get comfortable with it.
55:25
Thank you so much, Dee, for coming in.
55:27
I know that you're unbelievably busy
55:29
and yeah, all of the knowledge and everything you shared.
55:31
Also, it's just so obvious how passionate you are
55:34
about solving this problem.
55:35
And we need people like you
55:38
to actually be the pioneers in this space
55:39
because so many of us are just so unaware.
55:42
And when you don't know something,
55:43
I just think we're all at such a disadvantage.
55:45
So thank you for all the work that you do
55:47
and for coming on the podcast.
55:48
And we will hopefully have you on again sometime soon.
55:51
Thank you for having me.
55:52
Thank you so much for listening to Raising the Curb.
55:54
These conversations are designed to teach you
55:56
everything you need to know to be better with your money,
55:58
from saving to investing,
56:00
to talking with your friends about your salaries,
56:01
all of that stuff.
56:02
And if you like what you heard,
56:03
we would love if you could please hit subscribe
56:05
wherever you're listening and leave a comment.
56:07
Let us know what you thought about the episode.
56:09
And it only takes one second and it would really make our week, our month, our year.
56:14
Yeah.
56:14
Yeah.
56:14
So please do it.
56:15
Okay.
56:16
Love you.
56:16
Bye.
56:18
Okay, quickly, the curve was created to empower and educate you about investing,
56:21
but we are not financial advisors.
56:24
Our platform exists for educational purposes only, and it doesn't provide personalized
56:27
investing advice for your individual needs and should not be relied upon to make an investment
56:32
or financial decision.
56:33
And always remember to do your own research before making any investment or financial decision.
56:38
we're here for any knowledge and support you need but the final call is always yours
56:42
and thanks for being here you got this yeah we know you got this