Latest / Trudge Report / Ep. 116 - TRP Welcomes Leslie Albeit: Mother, Lawyer, Softball Enthusiast

Transcript

Ep. 116 - TRP Welcomes Leslie Albeit: Mother, Lawyer, Softball Enthusiast · Trudge Report

0:05
SPEAKER_02: Ladies and gentlemen, good evening and welcome to another episode of The Trudge Report.
0:10
SPEAKER_02: We are a recovery-based podcast.
0:13
SPEAKER_02: My name is not Sean.
0:15
SPEAKER_02: Uh my name is Greg, and I'll be your host.
0:17
SPEAKER_02: I'm joined by my good friends Dan and Corey.
0:21
SPEAKER_02: Sean is not with us this evening.
0:22
SPEAKER_02: Word has it, he is uh currently oiling up his golf clubs in a closet somewhere with a picture of a shirtless Jack Nicholas on the wall.
0:34
SPEAKER_02: And uh you know, probably saying something like, That's a good looking guy right there.
0:39
SPEAKER_02: So uh please remember to listen on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.
0:45
SPEAKER_02: Our videos will still be posted each week, so you can watch episodes on YouTube and Facebook.
0:50
SPEAKER_02: But as always, be sure to please uh download on all your listening platforms.
0:56
SPEAKER_02: Remember to like and subscribe on social media outlets with the handle at Trudge Report Pod.
1:02
SPEAKER_02: This podcast is brought to you by Stella My Stella Mix Podcast Management.
1:08
SPEAKER_02: Gentlemen, how are we doing this evening?
1:11
SPEAKER_02: Uh uh Danny P, we can start with you.
1:13
SPEAKER_03: Oh, we're doing good, man.
1:15
SPEAKER_03: Rounding up the opening day.
1:17
SPEAKER_03: Might stroke out by one o'clock tomorrow with anticipation for opening day on softwall.
1:22
SPEAKER_03: Um yeah, work I'm working nonstop, man.
1:25
SPEAKER_03: That's it.
1:25
SPEAKER_03: That's pretty much all that's going on for me is working softwall.
1:28
SPEAKER_03: Go to softwall, go to work afterwards, and working all weekend, working night some days, and uh just staying busy, man.
1:35
SPEAKER_03: Staying busy, that's it.
1:36
SPEAKER_03: Weather's getting warmer, and um yeah, that's it.
1:40
SPEAKER_03: Nothing crazy going on, man.
1:43
SPEAKER_02: Mr.
1:44
SPEAKER_02: Missioner, what's going on?
1:46
SPEAKER_01: Nothing good.
1:48
SPEAKER_01: Nothing good.
1:49
SPEAKER_01: Shocker.
1:50
SPEAKER_01: Shocker.
1:52
SPEAKER_01: Nope.
1:52
SPEAKER_01: Not good.
1:53
SPEAKER_01: Uh Flyers lost.
1:54
SPEAKER_01: Flyers lost to the Penguins last night.
1:56
SPEAKER_01: But I did predict that, guys.
1:58
SPEAKER_01: I will say, I told my dad, I said, here's the thing, we're gonna win game three, but then in game four, Pittsburgh's gonna get desperate.
2:07
SPEAKER_01: And and they're gonna beat us.
2:09
SPEAKER_01: So we'll probably we'll probably beat him tomorrow night.
2:11
SPEAKER_03: It's 3-1, right?
2:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, 3-1.
2:14
SPEAKER_01: We just gotta win one more.
2:15
SPEAKER_01: That's it.
2:15
SPEAKER_01: You're fine.
2:16
SPEAKER_01: Yep, totally fine.
2:18
SPEAKER_01: But um you know what pisses me off, by the way?
2:21
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna bring this up.
2:22
SPEAKER_02: This was Everything about sports?
2:25
SPEAKER_01: Everything about anything, basically.
2:27
SPEAKER_01: But no, so you know, like I go to watch the Flyers game last night, turn on TBS or whatever, but the Dallas Stars game is on, okay?
2:35
SPEAKER_01: Now that goes into overtime, alright?
2:38
SPEAKER_01: So you gotta wait.
2:40
SPEAKER_01: You gotta wait for that game to stop in order to watch the damn Flyers.
2:44
SPEAKER_01: Have you guys had this happen to you with sports games?
2:46
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, I mean it happens with football often.
2:49
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, exactly.
2:50
SPEAKER_01: But that's why I bring it up.
2:52
SPEAKER_01: It's such bullshit.
2:54
SPEAKER_01: Like, figure it out.
2:56
SPEAKER_01: Figure it the hell out.
2:57
SPEAKER_01: Do something.
2:58
SPEAKER_01: I guess you could I guess it was on true TV too.
3:00
SPEAKER_01: I don't apparently I don't have true TV.
3:02
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
3:05
SPEAKER_02: Like all the true crime shows are on.
3:07
SPEAKER_02: I don't they air hockey on that, yeah.
3:09
SPEAKER_03: It's like a T like a TNT spin-off because they do uh they did the NCA tournament on it too.
3:14
SPEAKER_03: Oh, did they?
3:15
SPEAKER_03: Okay, yeah.
3:16
SPEAKER_03: Like a TNT like sub party.
3:18
SPEAKER_02: I'd be pissed if I was like knee deep in a first 48 episode and some fucking hockey came on.
3:23
SPEAKER_02: I would miss.
3:26
SPEAKER_02: I don't mess around when it comes to first 48 boys.
3:29
SPEAKER_03: Uh I mean that's that's phenomenal.
3:31
SPEAKER_03: That's because you gotta stay ahead of the women, man.
3:33
SPEAKER_03: They're always watching those shows, bro.
3:34
SPEAKER_03: You gotta you gotta stay ahead of the gate ahead of the curve, brother.
3:39
SPEAKER_01: But other than that, Greg, I I um I power washed more today.
3:43
SPEAKER_01: So more manual labor.
3:44
SPEAKER_01: Not good.
3:45
SPEAKER_03: Mad props, Corey.
3:46
SPEAKER_01: I didn't know you had this in you.
3:47
SPEAKER_01: Like is this at the time?
3:48
SPEAKER_02: Is this at Brownie's house?
3:50
SPEAKER_02: Mom's house, or your house?
3:51
SPEAKER_01: Mom's house.
3:53
SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, I I don't have it in me.
3:55
SPEAKER_01: I hate it.
3:56
SPEAKER_03: Um, but you're doing it, man.
3:57
SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's yeah, it's fine.
3:59
SPEAKER_01: That's what you gotta do.
4:01
SPEAKER_01: I am doing everything I can to not paint.
4:03
SPEAKER_01: I don't want to paint.
4:04
SPEAKER_01: I'm fucking your hands are too small for the brush, brother.
4:08
SPEAKER_01: I gotta get the smallest brush.
4:09
SPEAKER_01: Are you painting this weekend?
4:11
SPEAKER_02: Uh this week, yeah.
4:12
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, are you going for it, Greg?
4:13
SPEAKER_02: I'm going for it.
4:14
SPEAKER_02: Dan, keep the phone line open because that Dan, whenever I screw something up in the house, Dan is my my absolute go-to.
4:21
SPEAKER_02: How do I fix it?
4:22
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
4:23
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
4:25
SPEAKER_01: Dan, you should have got a call today, actually.
4:26
SPEAKER_01: I I don't know why I didn't think about that.
4:28
SPEAKER_01: I was what happened.
4:30
SPEAKER_01: I was just trying to.
4:31
SPEAKER_01: I was at Home Depot, and when I go to Home Depot, I have to be on the phone with somebody that knows something because I don't know shit.
4:38
SPEAKER_03: I could just picture Duke Craig, I could just see this in the aisle.
4:41
SPEAKER_03: I walk by people like Corey in the aisle all the time, and I'd just be cracking up.
4:45
SPEAKER_01: Oh, what with what what like with like power drills in their big puffed out jacket and shit?
4:50
SPEAKER_01: Just no clue it's good.
4:54
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
4:55
SPEAKER_01: No, it's fucking whatever.
4:57
SPEAKER_01: But we had a little recovery event today at the bowling alley, so that was something else.
5:01
SPEAKER_01: Nice.
5:01
SPEAKER_03: Stuart Bowl?
5:02
SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, Stuart Bowl.
5:04
SPEAKER_01: Always fun to be at Stuart Bowl.
5:06
SPEAKER_01: We're right up your alley, Stuart Bowl.
5:08
SPEAKER_01: I ever win the lotto I'm buying that place.
5:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
5:11
SPEAKER_01: Uh 100%.
5:13
SPEAKER_01: I'll buy it just to close it down, dude.
5:16
SPEAKER_01: That place is that place is uh I mean it's fun, but it's like you know, it's I don't know.
5:23
SPEAKER_01: Do you guys have a place in your life where you're like good memories?
5:28
SPEAKER_01: But that that belongs in a past life, for sure.
5:31
SPEAKER_01: And any club downtown New Haven, Connecticut.
5:33
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
5:37
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, definitely there's places like that.
5:38
SPEAKER_02: You know what?
5:39
SPEAKER_02: You know what uh just blew my mind recently, and and granted, you know, it's a it's a kind of a nice spot, and it's not just a bowling alley, it's like a bowling alley, bar, escape rooms, arcade.
5:50
SPEAKER_02: But four of us went bowling here recently at at one of the places in town.
5:56
SPEAKER_02: We're like, yeah, let us get a lane.
5:58
SPEAKER_02: Uh it was I think there was like a one-hour to time rental.
6:01
SPEAKER_02: So we're like two two-hour rental for four people with shoes.
6:06
SPEAKER_02: The dude was a like, okay, that'll be$115.
6:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so crazy.
6:12
SPEAKER_02: What bowling used to be the cheapest act?
6:15
SPEAKER_02: It was like the only thing we could do in high school, you know what I'm saying?
6:18
SPEAKER_02: Like, like or catch a batine, yeah, bro, because it was so cheap.
6:22
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, what since what$115 for what?
6:26
SPEAKER_02: I'm not good at bowling.
6:28
SPEAKER_01: No, I literally, dude, today I was actually looking at the specials and they they're running, I forget on what day, but it was like a early bird, like three dollar per game special.
6:38
SPEAKER_01: And I'm literally I literally thought I was like, God, when I worked here, that was the regular rate.
6:42
SPEAKER_01: That wasn't the special rate, that was the rate.
6:45
SPEAKER_01: It's crazy.
6:46
SPEAKER_01: It's wild.
6:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you can't even go bowling anymore.
6:48
SPEAKER_01: How are how how are drug addicts gonna get sober anymore if they can't go bowling for yeah just a few bucks?
6:54
SPEAKER_01: I mean, what the hell?
6:55
SPEAKER_01: That's what we did.
6:56
SPEAKER_03: The bowling got dropped off at the bowling alley.
6:58
SPEAKER_03: My parents would drop me off at the bowling alley Friday night, midnight bowling, man.
7:01
SPEAKER_03: It'd be like, whatever, you take like 15 bucks with you, it'd be good.
7:05
SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah, no, that's not happening anymore.
7:07
SPEAKER_03: Well, we sounds they are a chase.
7:09
SPEAKER_01: We sound so old right now.
7:10
SPEAKER_01: So old, so old.
7:12
SPEAKER_01: But I will say on that note, too.
7:16
SPEAKER_01: So this specific event, like, we had a little registration table, and people would come up and like, you know, either buy a ticket or give us their ticket, blah blah blah, rip the stub off, whatever.
7:26
SPEAKER_01: But I but I was in charge of or excuse me, I was in charge of assigning lanes.
7:32
SPEAKER_01: And can you imagine how telling 60 other alcoholics what lane to go to went?
7:38
SPEAKER_01: They they they fucking just they just do what they want, dude.
7:40
SPEAKER_01: They just do what they it was like talking to my kids.
7:42
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I was gonna say it's like it's like dealing with eight and nine-year-olds.
7:45
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
7:46
SPEAKER_01: Awful, awful.
7:47
SPEAKER_01: It's probably worse.
7:49
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because they don't have anything.
7:51
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they're way more they're way more obstinate.
7:53
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
7:54
SPEAKER_01: At least, at least if it was like my kids, I'd be like, listen, you go to that lane, or else you're not getting ice cream after this.
8:01
SPEAKER_01: But the alcoholics don't listen no matter what.
8:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
8:04
SPEAKER_01: So there's no threat.
8:05
SPEAKER_01: There's no threat.
8:06
SPEAKER_01: Like there's no threat.
8:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
8:08
SPEAKER_01: Hey, you did go to that lane, or I'm taking away your sobriety.
8:12
SPEAKER_01: That's what I should have said.
8:13
SPEAKER_01: I'll I'll hit you with a cocaine dart.
8:15
SPEAKER_02: We we do uh we do all sound like old curmudgeons in the yeah, in the spirit of of being old.
8:22
SPEAKER_02: Uh the only uh couple noteworthy things on my end, one of which I I threw my back out the other day just playing catch with uh with uh an eight-year-old.
8:31
SPEAKER_02: So that's awesome.
8:33
SPEAKER_02: Uh definitely not getting any younger on this front.
8:35
SPEAKER_02: Um, so yeah.
8:37
SPEAKER_02: Um, and then the only other thing is uh I'd like to take a moment to wish uh my wonderful fiance a happy birthday.
8:45
SPEAKER_02: It was uh her birthday today.
8:47
SPEAKER_02: We had uh we went to the um maple festival, which is uh pretty pretty good.
8:54
SPEAKER_02: I think I might be uh pre-diabetic now at this point.
8:57
SPEAKER_02: Um but yeah, yeah, a lot of fun.
9:00
SPEAKER_02: Not a lot of fun.
9:01
SPEAKER_02: Uh I did not attempt to ride any rides, unfortunately, with the kid with the old back being all jacked up, but uh definitely great people watching around these parts.
9:11
SPEAKER_02: That's that's my best, my my favorite thing to do.
9:14
SPEAKER_01: Did you say it's Lauren's birthday?
9:16
SPEAKER_02: It is Lauren's birthday.
9:17
SPEAKER_02: Yes, today today.
9:19
SPEAKER_03: Oh happy birthday, Lauren.
9:21
SPEAKER_03: Happy birthday from the trudge.
9:23
SPEAKER_02: For for any of the those of us that uh enjoy a good sublime, it's April 26, 1992.
9:29
SPEAKER_03: Ooh, uh 1992.
9:32
SPEAKER_03: Yes, indeed.
9:33
SPEAKER_03: Yes, indeed.
9:34
SPEAKER_03: I can't anything over 90, man, makes me feel we old, we old.
9:42
SPEAKER_03: I don't know, it just gets worse.
9:44
SPEAKER_02: All right, without further ado, uh really excited tonight.
9:48
SPEAKER_02: Um, not just because Sean is taking uh uh an evening off and leaving the three of us to uh essentially get this podcast completely canceled, but um we have a wonderful guest tonight.
10:01
SPEAKER_02: Um, I'm very excited to uh you know learn about her, learn about her story, and and this, you know, so she can share it with us and and our our listeners.
10:11
SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, Dan was responsible for getting her on, so I'm I'm just gonna you know tee it up to Dan and and let him uh rip and introduce our uh wonderful guest Leslie.
10:22
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we are we are super grateful for Leslie to join us tonight.
10:26
SPEAKER_03: And uh we get we talk about it all the time is that you know our sobriety and things in our recovery programs, like you know, you attract what you are, you know, and you have these people that come around you and you get these great humans in your life.
10:39
SPEAKER_03: And that's what Leslie is to me right now.
10:41
SPEAKER_03: She's one of these great humans that came into my life.
10:43
SPEAKER_03: And she does uh so much for the community.
10:46
SPEAKER_03: Uh she's a great mother, um, she's a great lawyer.
10:49
SPEAKER_03: She has so many different facets of who she is, and that makes her a great person.
10:54
SPEAKER_03: You know, that um I mean we we met on the softball field, but it's become way more than that, and that's what happens, like you know, just being sober and meeting these people and you know starting to learn about them and who they are, and uh she's somebody I really respect, I look up to and um without further ado, we'll bring uh Miss Leslie onto the charge report.
11:14
SPEAKER_01: Yes, welcome there she is.
11:20
SPEAKER_02: Hi, hello, hello thanks for having me on.
11:25
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, thanks for thanks for being on and and uh you know spending then spending your Sunday evening with us for sure.
11:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I guess I guess the wildest thing I've done all weekend, nine o'clock on a Sunday.
11:37
SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes.
11:39
SPEAKER_02: Um and that goes right in with uh talking about how old we all are.
11:43
SPEAKER_02: So that's awesome.
11:44
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
11:45
SPEAKER_02: Um, so I guess to start, Leslie, just you know, tell us a little bit about yourself, like where you're from, where you're living now, family, that kind of stuff.
11:53
SPEAKER_02: Where'd you go to school?
11:55
SPEAKER_02: Tell us the the story of Leslie.
11:59
SPEAKER_00: Well, um I grew up in Potascala, Ohio, which is a little farm town outside of Columbus, and um lived with my mom and stepdad, and my dad lived down in Cincinnati, so I kind of had the best of both worlds.
12:17
SPEAKER_00: My mom's, you know, was a single mom for a long time and just really strong woman.
12:24
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then I had my dad, who was the fun guy, life of the party.
12:28
SPEAKER_00: So I would, you know, be real serious at home.
12:31
SPEAKER_00: And then um, when I went to visit him, you know, kind of got the fun side out and you know, learned to camp and hunt and do all those things.
12:40
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then I went to Ohio Wesleyan University, which is a little north of Columbus, and then straight from undergrad, I went into law school um here at Capitol, which is in Columbus, and now I live about a mile from Dan um in our little tiny city.
13:02
SPEAKER_00: And I have two kids, two girls.
13:05
SPEAKER_00: I'm married, have two dogs, and I coach softball with Dan uh for our nine-year-olds.
13:13
SPEAKER_00: And um we're just kind of obsessed with that right now.
13:18
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
13:19
SPEAKER_02: So so um you got you you have two girls.
13:23
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
13:24
SPEAKER_02: One's one's uh Dan's daughter's age, and then how how old's your other?
13:29
SPEAKER_00: Um, I have a 12-year-old, sixth grader, and she's really into softball.
13:34
SPEAKER_00: She's kind of what kicked it off for our family.
13:37
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, she's a rock star, dude.
13:38
SPEAKER_03: She's like so good, like really, really good.
13:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so all the bats, all the things, you know, it's just yeah, our lives.
13:46
SPEAKER_02: Yep, it's yeah, it's it and it sucks because there's there's just no way around it.
13:50
SPEAKER_02: It's like, yep, this just yeah, sign the check, I guess.
13:53
SPEAKER_02: Whatever, whatever we gotta do.
13:55
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, um, okay, so it's yeah, um, tell us uh a little bit about, you know, I I know you you said you're you're an attorney, and um tell us a little bit about that.
14:05
SPEAKER_02: Like how how long have you been practicing law for?
14:09
SPEAKER_00: Um 16 years, so yeah, since 2010.
14:14
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I started out actually in undergrad, I I worked for a real small criminal defense firm um up in my call like college town.
14:26
SPEAKER_00: And that's kind of where I got my feet wet.
14:28
SPEAKER_00: I would just my job was to go over to the police station and record DUI videos.
14:35
SPEAKER_00: Um, so I just sit there and and there was, I don't even know what I don't even remember if they were like on VHS tapes.
14:41
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that sounds really old.
14:42
SPEAKER_00: Am I that old?
14:43
SPEAKER_00: But I would have to like press a button and then put our tape in, and then I had to watch the entire thing through while it recorded to our you know, CD or whatever.
14:52
SPEAKER_02: Like the dash cam videos or what?
14:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the dash cam.
14:57
SPEAKER_00: That sounds amazing.
14:58
SPEAKER_00: Yes, it was pretty fun.
15:00
SPEAKER_00: It was pretty fun.
15:00
SPEAKER_00: And as like, you know, a college student, you know, I'm 20, 21 years old, like, oh my gosh, these people, this is crazy.
15:08
SPEAKER_01: Did somebody ever pop up that you knew?
15:11
SPEAKER_00: Not then.
15:11
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I get I get people now.
15:16
SPEAKER_01: Dan, Dan, we're looking at you, buddy.
15:22
SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
15:23
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, that prompted my interest in criminal defense work.
15:27
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then when I started first started practicing, just went right into criminal defense and um picked up a little bit of civil litigation too.
15:38
SPEAKER_00: I worked for an insurance um law firm, decided I don't want to do that my whole life.
15:45
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then I opened up my own practice with a partner, and we had that um for about 10 years.
15:51
SPEAKER_00: And then a partner and I left that firm and started up a new firm where I've been for about three years.
15:58
SPEAKER_00: Um, just kind of scaled back a little bit.
16:00
SPEAKER_00: It's just her and I, and um, we just get along so well.
16:05
SPEAKER_00: It's amazing.
16:06
SPEAKER_00: We're she has two girls too, and we're just, you know, kind of mom life, lawyer life together.
16:12
SPEAKER_00: So I still do um some criminal defense work.
16:17
SPEAKER_00: I serve as our mayor's court public defender um here in our little city.
16:22
SPEAKER_00: So in Ohio, we have mayor's courts for smaller municipalities.
16:27
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then you know, you still have like the big county court.
16:30
SPEAKER_00: Um, but so we handle just misdemeanor cases, mostly traffic uh and theft cases.
16:37
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
16:39
SPEAKER_02: And um so in your in, you know, tell us some of your favorite stories, I guess, about being a criminal defense attorney, like either wild, outlandish, crazy stuff that might have happened or something like that.
16:54
SPEAKER_00: Um I was trying to think back.
16:58
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I I I've had some really good story, you know, I've had people that I unfortunately got to know over a series of cases, you know, they were they were kind of recurring clients, and um, you really get to know people that way.
17:14
SPEAKER_00: Um, so I did have um a woman who had multiple uh OVIs, she had multiple drug possession cases.
17:25
SPEAKER_00: Um, she was just kind of popping up all the time for me.
17:28
SPEAKER_00: She'd call me for everything.
17:30
SPEAKER_00: And um I saw a really low point in her life where you know she wasn't showing up to court and I was having to kind of contact her family members, like what's going on and making sure she was still alive, you know, half the time.
17:44
SPEAKER_00: Um and then kind of handled a case for her and didn't hear from her for a while.
17:50
SPEAKER_00: And she sent me a text and she's like, Leslie, I got my license and I got a job.
17:55
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, that's insane because her license history was a mess.
18:01
SPEAKER_00: Like, I was like, this woman will never get a valid driver's license ever.
18:05
SPEAKER_00: And I still am like shocked.
18:07
SPEAKER_00: I don't know how she did it.
18:08
SPEAKER_00: Um so that was uh it was awesome because she it's amazing what a job like a full-time job can do too.
18:17
SPEAKER_00: You know, she um started working like at the Amazon warehouse and just you know, really was able to start paying bills and um it was great.
18:28
SPEAKER_00: But I would say now I do a lot of college student defense work, and so I get really crazy stories.
18:35
SPEAKER_00: Um one guy I had he was mooning, um, he was like behind college game day, you know, announcers and uh was mooning them and I mean like got arrested, like it was serious and got taken to jail.
18:54
SPEAKER_00: If you go to you know Franklin County jail on a Saturday afternoon, you're not getting out till Monday.
18:59
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, like a Monday schedule.
19:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so uh that was unfortunate and it was hard too because you know his parents were like, wait a minute, mooning in college?
19:09
SPEAKER_00: Like, why is he in so much trouble?
19:11
SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, he had a criminal charge, and then he also got in in trouble with his college too.
19:17
SPEAKER_00: I mean, they were disciplining him too.
19:19
SPEAKER_00: Um, so that was like a really wild one.
19:22
SPEAKER_00: Um, well, while from a sense of like it was so stupid, I guess.
19:27
SPEAKER_03: Did they have to do like an ass lineup to see who was gonna who would rule?
19:33
SPEAKER_00: Well, I think you know, he probably stupidly was like, hey, and then turned around.
19:38
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, yeah.
19:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, just go ask first next time.
19:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, make sure you got no no freckles.
19:48
SPEAKER_02: And like, so was something like that considered uh something where if that person would be convicted, would they have to like register?
19:57
SPEAKER_00: No, that one wasn't.
19:59
SPEAKER_02: No, I remember for like disorderly conduct or something stupid, but yeah, I don't remember if it was like scare tactics or what, but there was a a case when when I was at college at Kent State where a guy got caught, like just he was wasted, obviously, stumbling out of a bar, but he got caught like public urination, and that was like uh that was serious where he was gonna have to like register as a like a sex offender for X amount of years.
20:23
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, that happened to me, bro.
20:25
SPEAKER_03: State cops, man.
20:26
SPEAKER_03: I I brought yeah, we were buying school.
20:31
SPEAKER_03: Oh man, we were leaving the we were leaving a beach bar like on the shoreline in Connecticut, and uh the state cops would always patrol the area, and you know, I was leaving and I was hammered, and he was like, Oh, and I was taking a leak.
20:42
SPEAKER_03: He's like, He's like, Oh, you can't take a leak there.
20:44
SPEAKER_03: So I turned around and I flipped him off, and I just kept taking taking a leak, and he put me in handcuffs.
20:48
SPEAKER_03: That'll do it.
20:50
SPEAKER_03: He was not a he was not a fan, he was not a fan of my insubordination.
20:55
SPEAKER_03: Uh but I always wondered that I was so nervous because like the ticket I don't care about, whatever.
21:00
SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
21:00
SPEAKER_03: I was like, but I was so nervous, I was like, does this mean I have to like register now?
21:03
SPEAKER_03: What's what is it, you know?
21:05
SPEAKER_03: I got super nervous about that.
21:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I yeah, I get a lot of those cases, like college students.
21:11
SPEAKER_00: I mean, especially there's like an alley in at uh on campus at Miami University that's like right outside the bar.
21:18
SPEAKER_00: Everybody goes out there to pee.
21:20
SPEAKER_00: And I'm just like, yeah, they gotta start telling the incoming freshmen like just don't pee in that alley.
21:25
SPEAKER_00: Like you're just sitting there waiting.
21:29
SPEAKER_02: The the dumb things we do, yeah.
21:32
SPEAKER_02: When we're young.
21:34
SPEAKER_02: Um, so I guess like on that note, um, have you or anyone close to you like struggled with drug addiction or alcoholism?
21:43
SPEAKER_02: Like, to what extent is you know, obviously, I'm sure in the criminal defense field you you interact with or have interacted with plenty of of people that are either struggling with their substance abuse or full blown addicts and alcoholics.
21:59
SPEAKER_02: So
22:00
SPEAKER_00: know um give us a I guess maybe a little bit of background on that or experiences that and how they've been yeah um well as far as family goes I do have a very close family member that is an alcoholic um and when I was in law school he got I don't know a second or third OVI and I called my boss and was like can you represent him and that was like super tough you know it was I I don't get embarrassed or anything I would say like easily or at all um but that was you know that was really tough to like call you know in my professional life like okay this is my boss I'm gonna call him for help um but super glad I did you know I think having somebody you you know and trust handle you know cases that are close to you um is is a a good thing but um and that just made me want to go into criminal defense more you know to see what happened the aftermath of that um I will say you know after a while same old habits you know that that scared him for a little bit um but you know still still in that kind of struggle area I guess um but I would say I mean I think in my like everyday professional life um yeah I mean I see it in a ton of cases you know I see like I look at somebody's like record right I'm going through and you know I I usually can tell by having a conversation with them if you know they're um you know if they haven't gotten any charges in the last six years or something like okay and they're telling me like hey this was just kind of like this one off thing and um you know I think that's um you know on paper like can can tell a story but I think that it's not the full story.
23:59
SPEAKER_00: So I've had people come in with a huge rap sheet before and say listen you know I was with people that were doing this this wasn't me and you know really having a heart to heart with them and and understanding like okay that you know sometimes you are in a uh kind of bad um wrong place at the wrong time kind of thing especially if you're still hanging out I guess with the same you know people um but you know I always I I might have told Dan this story I don't remember but you know I had a I had a guy who I got really close to because you know he had multiple drug cases um got really close to his mom you know she was at every court hearing uh for him and really helping him out with his kids and you know trying to do everything she could to support him and you know your attorney only knows um what you tell them right so if you don't tell them the truth uh that could be a problem so you know we're in court one day and the prosecutor and the judge you know well I think I was talking prosecutor and they're like okay listen if he can you know drop clean urine today then you know we won't recommend any jail time and you know blah blah blah and I'm like oh my gosh this is like a great deal like we gotta take this and you know talk to him I'm like you tell me right now like if you can't drop right now today we'll go a different direction and he's like no I got this I can do it I can do it I can do it and uh I was yeah I was like okay like you you know me well like you're telling me the truth I'm gonna go rely on that so went in front of the judge did the deal judge is like walk over across the street go drop and we walk out of the court room and he takes off running oh and oh he didn't even go he didn't even go to go drop he just he just didn't I was just standing outside of the courthouse like what where is he what is happening um and so yeah didn't actually I can't remember I don't think I heard from him for a couple weeks and then you know I think about a year later his mom called me and he had OD'd and you know passed away so that was that was crazy.
26:20
SPEAKER_00: I mean I and I thought he was doing well and you know I just felt like really actually blindsided because I'm like oh my gosh if you're not telling me what's going on and we have confidentiality um right you know that so that was hard.
26:34
SPEAKER_00: Um but yeah I might have answered your question.
26:37
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
26:38
SPEAKER_00: No yeah absolutely absolutely I would say that like that's one of the things that I love about you Leslie is that like you're it has a life you know what I mean connection your passion for what you do you know what I mean I think that's so cool that like it kind of derived you to love what you do and every step of the road of the things you do you know um I go ahead well I was just gonna say yeah I I sometimes it's a blessing and a curse because I feel like I get really close to my clients and I like try to figure out their entire story which is so weird because they're like I just met you like today and now you're asking me all these really deep questions but you know I think it all comes together is like okay why are we sitting here today?
27:18
SPEAKER_00: Like tell me what's going on.
27:19
SPEAKER_03: You know emotional Dan I just tell you everything so it's very easy uh but no I would I oh go ahead Corey.
27:28
SPEAKER_01: I have a question I don't I not that I'm gonna articulate this question very well but what do you think generally speaking like the I know you can't speak for like all of America necessarily but maybe in your area what is what do you think the law's opinion is on drug addiction today?
27:49
SPEAKER_01: I feel like it's personally I feel like it's made improvements towards treating it as an illness um but I I'd I'd be curious to hear your perspective on that.
28:03
SPEAKER_00: I think so I mean I I there's just so many options and programs and you know there's so much out there like especially like through the court system.
28:16
SPEAKER_00: I know a lot of people have bad experiences going through court but you know like I know in our county we have a new newish program.
28:25
SPEAKER_00: You don't even have to have an open case.
28:27
SPEAKER_00: You can go into the courthouse on like the seventh floor I forget which floor and you know get assistance with applying for healthcare you can get drug and alcohol screens like you can get all this stuff done and um I think it's pretty awesome.
28:40
SPEAKER_00: I I would say maybe an unpopular opinion I what I've been kind of struggling with lately is you know I have somebody who you know again I deal with a lot of college students so I have somebody who makes a poor decision and maybe they um threaten somebody or they like not not drug or alcohol related like I have a case that's you know has nothing to do with drugs or alcohol and they get but it maybe has to do with mental health you know they're struggling with something um and trying to articulate that as like a mitigating factor it almost would be better if they had a drug or alcohol problem because then there could be some treatment or something I can send them to or you know a professional that can assess them or give us an opinion or help.
29:29
SPEAKER_00: And when I don't have that, you know, I think a lot of times schools especially are just like oh well if you know drugs or alcohol didn't cause this and I can't get we can't see an assessment from a professional and treatment there then you know we're just kicking you out or we're just you know kind of separating.
29:48
SPEAKER_00: So I don't know that's kind of a struggle I guess I'm dealing with right now in this kind of college world.
29:56
SPEAKER_02: I was gonna say I think you know and and granted like I'm not uh you know on the front lines of it or anything but I you know I do pay attention to it and I think that um I don't know like historically anyways in the 70s it was like well you know rehab for everybody everybody gets rehabilitated and then you know further on in the 80s and 90s the war on drugs there was like this huge crackdown and you know the the penalties were were pretty major and I think we've come a ways from that where we're really right in the middle.
30:29
SPEAKER_02: I think I don't think that there's um this big uh mystery around the fact that that uh opiates and the opioid epidemic has has ravaged uh our country and I think that um you know but it it it sucks it's it really does go like kind of on a case by case basis you know um like you know because there's there's plenty of things that I did and I can you know I'll speak for myself but I I know my my two compatriots as well here uh yeah we we I deserve to be in prison for some of the stuff that I did for sure you know and I just didn't get caught doing it you know um you know thankfully that's the case and thankfully I'm I'm far removed from that person that I used to be um you know but I I yeah like along with that like as you know you brought up a good point with the mental health aspect of it like what are what are some of the unique challenges that you kind of face as uh as an attorney um when dealing with that kind of stuff I oh like me myself what do I well not not saying that you're mentally ill but but no but like like what what what kind of what kind of challenges do you see though with with uh the mental health nowadays because again I I think that there um well I can I can say this um there were a couple people when I worked in the substance abuse treatment field that were definitely drug addicts I guess you would say um was very secondary they were in there for mental health and a lot of people you know like for the I I can I always hang my hat and then you know rest in peace to this poor kid he he didn't make it but he was he was uh paranoid schizophrenic and he used drugs to calm down what was going on in his brain you know so the drug portion of that was so secondary to the real problem but the the issue was is every time he would get in trouble for one of these episodes it would always be centered around this is a drug conflict so let's put him in rehab and it was like you know and I got a lot of pushback from the clinical side of things because I'm like this guy doesn't belong here like not with these people like he belongs in some you know somewhere else that can really you know tackle this problem.
32:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah I feel like in my most of what I deal with kind of in relation to that would be you know we I have so many kids with anxiety and or young adults I should say with anxiety that are like I have to smoke weed you know because this helps me and um that's that's become like a huge thing is like oh I'm just gonna smoke weed every day because I'm so anxious about you know whatever and this calms me down.
33:22
SPEAKER_00: Um so I mean I think the mental health piece of it yeah I it's interesting because I I think I probably in my line of work now deal with more of the mental health part of it than like the you know I guess like drug addicted just because we're you know I'm talking about like not I mean any age can be addicted but like I'm talking with you know 18, 19 20 year olds.
33:55
SPEAKER_00: Um and so yeah I just think I don't know I don't even know what to say about the mental health part because I everyone who comes through my door I mean there there's something there you know we need to get get them to some type of professional and it you know I I didn't go to law school for that like I tell people all the time like I am not qualified to be you know giving you this opinion or you know giving you like direction here like you need to go talk to somebody else so it's really tough.
34:24
SPEAKER_03: I think it's I think it's so hard to like because like with drug addiction or alcoholism or anything is like the solution like on a statewide or like a court basis rehab this there's steps.
34:35
SPEAKER_03: You know with mental health there's not really like a every case is different with that person they need different stuff you know and and most like to me anyways is that there's medicine you know like you said smoking weed uh you know you need to take this Xanax you need to take this you know what I mean where it's like you know they really need personal help by professionals you know whether it's words and talk you know what I mean like all these things that's like I feel like there's uh you know with drug addiction and stuff that they were able to throw a lot of money at centers and treatment centers and all these places and things where mental health can't really do that.
35:10
SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
35:11
SPEAKER_03: Like you got you gotta have professionals and you gotta have like a there's no like bulk you know what I mean I think answer and that's hard from like a government basis I I think anyways that like it's more individualized.
35:21
SPEAKER_03: Like Greg was saying at the retreatment center it's so individualized.
35:25
SPEAKER_02: Well and two you know not not everybody out there actually most people out there don't have five hundred dollars an hour to pay a therapist you know so they you know maybe they'll go a couple times and then they'll just be like yeah you know what I can't afford this or you know whatever the case may be so no they can't run the insurance for six thousand for a P test you know so it's mental health you know so like when we went to rehab and they're running$96,000 bills for urine tests.
35:49
SPEAKER_02: I literally got a$99,000 bill yeah I mean I didn't I didn't have to pay it but no yeah mine was 90 yeah mine was 90 something too I was like well mine was a mine was$177,000.
36:01
SPEAKER_03: Oh Greg went hard yeah you were extra sick yeah I was in the executive program I don't know how I got in it I have no idea I was certainly not an executive but I never knew we weren't that bad yeah I don't know why we've been taking this so seriously uh yeah I mean I really just think mental health is like so hard you know I mean like it's a personal investment you know like I mean honestly dude uh I mean Leslie knows like Ohio State I think there was a dude that donated like 400 million or billion dollars for the hospital and stuff because like there's people that donate money to go into this stuff you know what I mean but I feel like it's it's like so specific and so individualized that it's hard to like pinpoint you know where to throw the money into.
36:45
SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
36:46
SPEAKER_02: I mean that that's to me anyways like where like I said uh alcohol and drugs is go to rehab do-da-th you know and all that stuff like I just feel like it's so individualized with the person everyone's different well and not to go off on too much of a tangent but Leslie you mentioned something that kind of stuck with me but like you said that you like you're seeing a lot of these cases of of people that have this anxiety like what what did what do you think about that and what do you think could be the cause of that if you had to just venture a guess in in in that realm oh gosh I don't know I mean I see it in my nine year old you know sorry I mean you know uh I I I don't know I I really don't I mean I think there's so much pressure on kids to accomplish certain things or you know to get further than their parents um you know did like with education I mean a lot of the people who call me you know they're really accomplished kids and young you know really accomplished young adults and they are just like one little tiny blip on the radar pushes them to like over the edge.
38:02
SPEAKER_00: You know they just they can't handle that like little failure.
38:07
SPEAKER_00: And so that's I think that's what I see a lot is like you know parents are calling me so stressed out for their child or their young adult.
38:18
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes when I honestly sometimes when I talk to the the actual client they're not as stressed out about the you know whatever problem they're calling me for as their parents so I don't know as a parent I can say it's just all my fault right now.
38:37
SPEAKER_00: But yeah I I don't know I think the pressures are different.
38:39
SPEAKER_00: I think social you know I am I'm on social media all the time.
38:44
SPEAKER_02: I don't practice what I preach but I know that it's a problem you know everybody comparing everything and posting accomplishments and how many likes do you get and you know all that crap um which you know I participate in too there's no getting around it I guess yeah that that's kind of like where I I always kind of kind of pinpoint anyways is just that yeah we live in this you know partially just online world all the time where it's it is it's the constant um you know everybody posts their best moments uh on on Facebook and everywhere else for everybody to see you know you don't you don't get to see the the bad times but then again like you know we see stuff and we're automatically comparing ourselves constantly and I think that that is you know the the source of it I know internally I don't struggle with anxiety but uh at the times where I do feel anxious it is it's like it's those thoughts of oh you know the the one guy I know is making seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars a year and I'm out here struggling to make ends meet at times and you know why don't I have that life for myself and that that kind of stuff.
39:54
SPEAKER_02: So that constant comparing you know um I think we'll do it.
39:58
SPEAKER_02: But yeah it is it's it's certainly a lot different I like what you said too about um you know that that pressure for for our kids nowadays because I think it is at an all time high.
40:12
SPEAKER_03: Yeah it's so different man because you know I mean really I feel like pimpoin there was like when we grew up I mean for me anyways you know like losing was part of the journey.
40:20
SPEAKER_03: You know we're now losing's not okay.
40:23
SPEAKER_03: And everyone needs to win.
40:24
SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
40:25
SPEAKER_03: Like that's like losing was part of the journey failing was part of the journey.
40:28
SPEAKER_03: And that was like part of the strength and character building that my dad when I was a kid and stuff like that.
40:32
SPEAKER_03: If I stunk one game or stuff like that, it's like that's just part of it.
40:35
SPEAKER_03: That's part of the game you know I mean where now it's like parents try to protect it so much and we do it because that's just the way it is now.
40:42
SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
40:43
SPEAKER_03: It's not like it's anyone's fault.
40:44
SPEAKER_03: You know I mean it's just the way it is now and uh I mean Greg we were talking about it.
40:48
SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
40:48
SPEAKER_03: Guilt you know what I mean like where it's like everything we try to take ownership for everything that it's this is my fault and this is my fault where it's like it's just kind of the way it is now and it's like navigating a new world and it's not like you know me like it's not anyone's fault but it's just different.
41:03
SPEAKER_03: But like the way we brought up we were brought up is like totally like losing was part of the journey.
41:08
SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
41:08
SPEAKER_03: Like that I've failed so many times where losing was part of the journey where now it's not in school and stuff you know everyone gets a medal and there's no no one gets left out everyone gets you know on on the birthday cake day everyone gets a muffin it's not just the birthday kid you know like stuff like that.
41:25
SPEAKER_00: Well I really I struggle with fixing things for my kids and fixing things for everybody around me because that I mean that is what I do in my job too.
41:35
SPEAKER_00: You know a lot of times people say I should be a lawyer because I love to argue or I that's why I wanted to go to law school because I love to argue and I always think gosh I wanted to be a lawyer because I don't like to argue I like to solve problems.
41:49
SPEAKER_00: And so like when I see my kids struggling lately it's been you know learning like they have to learn how to text and like texting etiquette and like being in group chats and all this that's what we're our household is kind of struggling with right now.
42:03
SPEAKER_00: But I just want to like call up the mom and like fix it you know behind the scenes for my kids and then I'm like oh no I can't I can't do that.
42:11
SPEAKER_00: I shouldn't do that.
42:12
SPEAKER_00: I should like let them struggle and get through this and that is so hard for me to do.
42:17
SPEAKER_02: Well I think too like in I don't I don't know I I'm sure Dan and Corey feel the same way but it's like I think that's the motherly instinct in you too you know is is that yeah you you do you want to you want to fix the problems and and protect your kids you know and I think you know for like Dan and I were just talking about it yesterday you know with with my stepson like I want to I want to be the the father figure for him that I never had for myself right and I and and I think that that it's it all comes from a good place and good very well intentioned and everything like that but I think that at times a little bit of just living and let live you know because I I think you know with all best intentions sometimes I can go overboard too much you know and it's like yeah you know I I don't need to be out here fixing every problem and and all that you know sometimes I just need to chill out lay back be myself you know so my my my friend that's a a therapist who always says like kids are so much more resilient than us and we just don't let them be.
43:27
SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean like they're so way more resilient than us or we'll be in a full tilt you know what I mean like next level because uh Leslie I told you like when we went uh talking about a therapist with Maya and stuff like that and we're like in the room and stuff and we kept I kept like automatically like answering for Maya and she looked at me it's like stop it stop it you know because it's just automatic you know she's like you need to when you go to a restaurant you need to let her order for herself let her struggle for 45 minutes and I was like you're gonna I'm gonna sit there without you know like I'm gonna have an absolute aneurysm in The booth while she you know what I mean?
44:01
SPEAKER_03: But it's it's just it's just the way it is, man.
44:04
SPEAKER_03: You know, and it's like we just gotta like re-teach ourselves, you know what I mean, to keep the the the hand off the stove.
44:10
SPEAKER_02: Dude, you want to talk about resilient Corey's son?
44:12
SPEAKER_02: You could drop Corey's son off in like the toughest hood in America, and in nine days he'd be like running a cartel 100%.
44:22
SPEAKER_03: He scares the shit out of me.
44:26
SPEAKER_03: He is he's like a Tasmanian devil.
44:28
SPEAKER_03: Ridiculous.
44:29
SPEAKER_01: You know what's funny?
44:30
SPEAKER_01: I we we had we left the kids at my mom's the other night, so we could go to one of our recovery groups.
44:35
SPEAKER_01: And I show I show back up and she's like, you know, he was such an angel, and then you walked in the door.
44:41
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, yeah, I it's just what he chooses to do to his parents.
44:45
SPEAKER_01: I don't I don't know.
44:46
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
44:47
SPEAKER_01: Hey, so Leslie, I have a question.
44:49
SPEAKER_01: I don't know if I'm coming out of the left field here, but uh I was wondering, and I I've wondered this many times over the years as far as like criminal defense goes.
44:59
SPEAKER_01: And I know that criminal defense is like very all-encompassing, right?
45:04
SPEAKER_01: Not just you obviously you're not just representing like drug addicts and stuff.
45:07
SPEAKER_01: I'm sure you've had different things, but have you ever had trouble representing a client because like you knew damn well that they did what they said they weren't that they didn't do or something?
45:18
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
45:19
SPEAKER_01: Like I wonder if that happens, like like for instance, I mean on like a large scale, freaking OJ.
45:25
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
45:26
SPEAKER_01: Like Yeah, you know, like like how do you how do you reconcile like representing that?
45:31
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
45:32
SPEAKER_01: Like, have you ever had something of that nature?
45:34
SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
45:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, I I kind of love that question that you know kids ask me that too.
45:39
SPEAKER_00: If I go in and like do a talk at school, like, how do you defend guilty plea, you know, people?
45:45
SPEAKER_04: Right.
45:45
SPEAKER_00: Um well, first of all, there I mean, there's a lot of answers, I think, to that.
45:49
SPEAKER_00: But first of all, I think everybody deserves an advocate um and a voice.
45:53
SPEAKER_00: And so that I guess that's part of you know the first step of what I try to do.
45:59
SPEAKER_00: Um, so just because you made a mistake and you're guilty doesn't mean that you need to be, you know, given given the whole book, right?
46:07
SPEAKER_00: Like you deserve a proportionate sanction um or proportionate punishment.
46:14
SPEAKER_00: Um and also, I mean, well, like you bring up the OJ, you know, it's been a while since I've watched a documentary, but it's really interesting.
46:26
SPEAKER_00: I you know, of course, you know, we all know what OJ did, but then seeing the incompetence of the police officers and you know, that were handling the case, and it's like, well, that makes me mad too.
46:40
SPEAKER_00: Like, why do they get to be so incompetent?
46:44
SPEAKER_00: Um, and so I don't know, I guess if you look at it that way, like as a defense attorney, your job is to make sure that the state and uh the court and police officers are doing their job too.
46:55
SPEAKER_00: So um it's kind of checks and balances, I think.
46:57
SPEAKER_00: But I think first and foremost, I I really enjoy being the voice, you know, for my client, um, making them feel better.
47:08
SPEAKER_00: You know, I have a lot of college students who call me, you know, because they're in trouble.
47:12
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I'm always like, okay, this you can choose to just have this be a blip on the radar.
47:17
SPEAKER_00: And in five years, you're gonna like be a better person because of it.
47:21
SPEAKER_00: Um, obviously, I think I sometimes wear rose-colored glasses when it comes to that.
47:26
SPEAKER_00: But um, yeah, I mean, I guess that's how I do it.
47:29
SPEAKER_00: Now I've had clients that I don't personally like, you know, maybe they're rude to me or they're condescending or they're jerks or, you know, whatever.
47:37
SPEAKER_00: Um, I think that's a different story.
47:40
SPEAKER_00: There can be very innocent people who are just assholes still to me.
47:44
SPEAKER_00: Um, and you know, I'd I'd probably rather defend a guilty person that's nice and respectful than, you know, an asshole, I guess.
47:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I wonder too, I wonder sometimes if like you know, here in America, like if we actually are innocent until proven guilty.
48:04
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean by that?
48:06
SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't know, man.
48:07
SPEAKER_01: There's I say no chance.
48:09
SPEAKER_01: No chance, right?
48:10
SPEAKER_01: No chance.
48:11
SPEAKER_01: You are guilty until proven innocent in reality, like it automatically.
48:16
SPEAKER_01: Like, oh, he got arrested.
48:17
SPEAKER_01: Like, what I mean, just we were talking before the podcast, and I swear to God that I handled no drugs in that distribution charts that I caught.
48:26
SPEAKER_01: I swear I did, but like, and we made a joke about it, and like, you know, like, oh, sure you did, but like, isn't that the general attitude towards this stuff most of the time?
48:36
SPEAKER_01: It's like, oh yeah, I'm sure the drug addict's telling the truth right now, you know.
48:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm on that train too.
48:42
SPEAKER_00: I I think that yeah, you are guilty until you prove yourself innocent.
48:48
SPEAKER_02: Um well, it is a shame too, because like you know, and I I'm sure you know, you hear it all the time.
48:53
SPEAKER_02: I'm sure you would give your clients the same advice, but like if you are pulled over, stopped, detained, called in for questioning, like the best thing you can do is keep your mouth shut, and then that's kind of the worst thing because then you're automatically, you know, this guy's got something to hide, or you know, whatever the case may be.
49:13
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, he's can we just dive into that for a second?
49:16
SPEAKER_01: Oh my god, thank you, Greg.
49:18
SPEAKER_01: I see video upon video on social media, right?
49:21
SPEAKER_01: And sometimes it's a lawyer, somebody, or maybe even another officer, they get pulled over and they want to be a dick that day and be like, I know the law, I know my rights, so I'm not gonna comply, I'm not even gonna give you my ID.
49:34
SPEAKER_01: And me being just I'm an accounting, I don't know shit about any I the extent I know of court is me sitting in court as a guilty person.
49:42
SPEAKER_01: But um, like, I don't know.
49:46
SPEAKER_01: Do you ever do you ever see that where people are like, yeah, I didn't give I didn't give the cop my ID because I know my rights, or I didn't do this because I know my I'm not gonna get out of the car because I know my rights.
49:56
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
49:57
SPEAKER_01: I think they're assholes personally.
49:58
SPEAKER_01: I think if you just comply with a police officer, you'll probably be okay.
50:03
SPEAKER_01: Um, unless you're hiding drugs in your uh underwear like a button.
50:09
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
50:10
unknown: Yeah.
50:10
SPEAKER_01: Do you have any idea thoughts on that?
50:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, actually, that's kind of funny you bring that up because I for I forget what my kids and I were talking about in the car, but um one of them said, Well, should I lie to a police officer?
50:24
SPEAKER_00: Like if I if I shouldn't admit, you know, I was doing something wrong, and my husband was like, Well, you shouldn't be doing something wrong in the first place.
50:30
SPEAKER_00: So But I was like, No, you shouldn't lie to the police officer, you should just stay silent.
50:36
SPEAKER_00: Um, and that's your right to stay silent.
50:39
SPEAKER_00: You don't have to give evidence to incriminate yourself.
50:42
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think that I I think that's really where people struggle.
50:46
SPEAKER_00: You know, I I do some like college talks, I guess, to, you know, students and their parents who are going, you know, starting their college journey.
50:55
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, in call in these college disciplinary cases, you don't have the right to remain silent.
51:00
SPEAKER_00: So you really do need to cooperate on some level, but it's really hard to get people like their brains wrapped around like I don't have to answer these questions, especially when you're in that environment, you know, that intimidating environment.
51:18
SPEAKER_00: Now, providing your ID, that's I think that's kind of ridiculous.
51:22
SPEAKER_00: Like you need to do that.
51:23
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, unless it's an element of the criminal offense.
51:28
SPEAKER_00: So underage drinking, you know, then then it gets a little tricky there because providing your ID, you're establishing an element to that offense.
51:38
SPEAKER_00: So I, you know, I don't know.
51:40
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I think it's hard because I'm I'm definitely like a complier.
51:43
SPEAKER_00: Like if a police officer asks me to do something, I'm like, yeah, okay.
51:47
SPEAKER_01: Right.
51:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
51:48
SPEAKER_00: Even though I know I don't have to, I still would.
51:51
SPEAKER_01: And it helps when you when you know that, like, you know, I don't know, if you're guilty of anything, maybe you're doing 10 over the speed limit or something.
51:58
SPEAKER_01: And like I agree to it to an extent, like if I get pulled over for speeding and the officer asks me, do you know how fast you were going?
52:08
SPEAKER_01: That's possibly a question that I might want to beat around the bush on, I guess, because obviously there's gonna be record of me saying, Yep, I was doing 75 and a 40 or whatever, and that's not gonna go well for me in court.
52:19
SPEAKER_01: But um, but I still think you're hit anyway, so why not comply?
52:23
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you're like, yeah, when it comes down to it, and it's your word against another an officer's, I feel like you're kind of not at a good leverage anyway.
52:31
SPEAKER_03: And dude, I mean uh well, I mean it's different nowadays, but I mean, how many times I got pulled over and like, yeah, you know, we got an eighth of weed and we got a 30 pack in the backseat, and the cop just took it and put it on the side of the road and we went on and we went on our merry way, you know, because you were just straight, you shoot them straight, and then they treat you with respect.
52:47
SPEAKER_01: You know you might be showing your age again, I think.
52:50
SPEAKER_02: I was gonna say, because I feel like nowadays, in the days of you know 90% of cops wearing body cams, I feel like it's that you're not getting away with it.
52:59
SPEAKER_03: But they hey, they still have the ability to have leniency.
53:02
SPEAKER_03: I mean, they they hold the power to how you're gonna be treated.
53:05
SPEAKER_03: I mean, I when I got arrested one time, this was for selling coke, and I had um uh I remember the cops, they wanted me to rat somebody out, and they didn't.
53:14
SPEAKER_03: So the prosecutor was an absolute a-hole to me.
53:16
SPEAKER_03: I mean, he he attacked me for what I was wearing at court.
53:19
SPEAKER_03: I had to go to court 21 times and spend all kinds of money because the prosecutor wanted to be a jerk.
53:24
SPEAKER_00: Well, did you have your hair like that?
53:26
SPEAKER_03: Maybe that was actually I had a blowout, a gold chain, and a popped collar, so it was even worse.
53:32
SPEAKER_03: I don't do it.
53:33
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it was even worse.
53:35
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but then but then when I got my DUI and I had eight charges, I went to court one time, I paid a bunch of money.
53:41
SPEAKER_03: I did I lost my license for one day and I went on my merry way.
53:44
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no, like I just feel like you know what I mean.
53:47
SPEAKER_03: Like that's like it's also a who you know thing.
53:49
SPEAKER_00: Well, you know, prosecutors too.
53:51
SPEAKER_00: I I work with a prosecutor pretty routinely who, you know, if he wants to, if I'm like, hey, they got a you know, this first-time offense, and you know, blah blah blah, here's all these mitigating factors, like let's cut this person a deal.
54:02
SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, the first thing he looks at is to read the narrative and say, okay, was this person a jerk to my officer or not?
54:11
SPEAKER_00: And you know, if there's a note on there that they were a jerk, then you know the prosecutor's gonna think twice about cutting cutting a break for us.
54:19
SPEAKER_03: It's like the worst feeling in the world when the prosecutor and the lawyer go in the back and you have no clue what the outcome's gonna be.
54:26
SPEAKER_03: I hate that.
54:26
SPEAKER_03: That's the worst.
54:27
SPEAKER_03: Sorry, Corey.
54:28
SPEAKER_01: I didn't mean to interrupt, but I had a worst.
54:31
SPEAKER_01: No, along those lines, Dan, like so Leslie.
54:34
SPEAKER_01: What exactly so as so as a public defender specifically, and I've I've had several public defenders, I've literally never paid a lawyer because I never had money.
54:45
SPEAKER_01: Um what exactly is a public defender's motive in getting the best deal for the client?
54:55
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
54:56
SPEAKER_01: Like I've I wondered that myself.
54:58
SPEAKER_01: Like, I dude, I I go to court, I usually meet the public defender that day.
55:02
SPEAKER_01: I never see the person again in my life normally.
55:05
SPEAKER_01: There was one that I had to deal with a couple times.
55:08
SPEAKER_01: But like and I'm not paying them.
55:11
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
55:12
SPEAKER_01: So, like, what is what is in it for them to go to the prosecutor and be like, hey, let's cut them a deal, like you know, blah blah blah.
55:18
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
55:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
55:19
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you're not paying them, but they are getting paid.
55:22
SPEAKER_01: So um I'm saying, like, re so is it like reputation or you know what I mean?
55:28
SPEAKER_01: Like, oh, I I mean I can speak.
55:31
SPEAKER_00: I mean, for me, when in mayor's court where I'm a public defender, I am not strapped for time.
55:38
SPEAKER_00: I'm not overloaded with clients, you know.
55:40
SPEAKER_00: I'm I can go and talk to each individual, you know.
55:44
SPEAKER_00: Um, and so I don't know, I think my motivation is, you know, I'm also a private practice attorney.
55:51
SPEAKER_00: So I just treat my cases like I would my private practice clients.
55:56
SPEAKER_00: Um, but I think, yeah, I think a lot of public defenders maybe get a bad rap.
56:00
SPEAKER_00: Um, but I think most public defenders are the most experienced attorneys that I know because they're in the courtroom every day with so many cases, you know.
56:11
SPEAKER_00: So they know, you know, they can look at a case faster than me a lot of times and know, you know, hey, this is what this particular prosecutor is gonna wanna hear or see or whatever.
56:21
SPEAKER_00: I think that attorney, a lot of attorneys by nature are just we're competitive.
56:26
SPEAKER_00: Um, so I I have to say I like winning.
56:30
SPEAKER_00: Um, and that's you know, a lot of times some motivation too is, you know, you like getting that good deal or you know, you develop a relationship, you know, potentially with with you know a client, even if, you know, it's a public defender.
56:44
SPEAKER_00: I I know it's hard when you're just like you don't hear from them until your court date.
56:48
SPEAKER_00: Um, but you know, that's when that's when things get done too, you know.
56:53
SPEAKER_00: So like even for for my public defender cases, you know, yeah, two weeks goes by until the next court date, and you know, then the prosecutor and I aren't necessarily like talking every day about the cases, right?
57:06
SPEAKER_00: And until then we just wait and meet and you know, it's like having a meeting.
57:11
SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, I don't know.
57:13
SPEAKER_00: I I know there's a whole you know gamut, but I do think it comes down to maybe some competitiveness too.
57:19
SPEAKER_01: Well, you want to do something funny real quick.
57:22
SPEAKER_01: I the last I'll make this quick because I know we're getting there, but uh the last time I was in court, I was two years sober.
57:28
SPEAKER_01: Um I'm ten years sober now.
57:30
SPEAKER_01: This is eight years ago.
57:31
SPEAKER_01: I went back to New Jersey to handle my outstanding warrants and everything.
57:35
SPEAKER_01: That's a whole nother story.
57:36
SPEAKER_01: But anyway, I ended up getting some new court dates and stuff and my public defender and blah blah blah.
57:43
SPEAKER_01: And uh dude is so funny.
57:45
SPEAKER_01: I I literally heard my public defender.
57:47
SPEAKER_01: He walked over to the prosecutor.
57:49
SPEAKER_01: I literally heard what he said.
57:50
SPEAKER_01: He said, Yeah, he's he's been he's been sober, you know, a couple years.
57:55
SPEAKER_01: And then he literally used the words, he's been a good boy.
57:59
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, what the fuck?
58:02
SPEAKER_01: And then somehow that still got me a couple felonies, so I guess I wasn't that good of a boy.
58:06
SPEAKER_04: Oh my god.
58:08
SPEAKER_02: Well, going along with that and with that question, I know like that when I was in school, I went to school for you know criminal justice.
58:16
SPEAKER_02: Um, I didn't graduate because of alcoholism and drug addiction, but uh I did in fact go to school for for a little while.
58:24
SPEAKER_02: Um but any event, what it what I remember um at the time, anyways, like in Ohio, there was X amount of pro bono work that every practicing attorney like had to do.
58:37
SPEAKER_02: So so like for so just because you're getting the public defender doesn't always mean that they are they're they're they're practicing, they have their own practicing firm, you know, and and they just this is their pro bono work that they have to do for the year or whatever.
58:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, honestly, my public defender work, I make a lot less than if I was working on a private client case.
58:59
SPEAKER_00: Um, but I love it.
59:01
SPEAKER_00: I I love talking to different people, I love, you know, the the courtroom that we have, the people around it.
59:08
SPEAKER_00: I mean, those become kind of your I wouldn't say co-workers, right?
59:12
SPEAKER_00: Because we're not in the same office, not on the same side, but they kind of do, you know, you develop relationships with with those people too.
59:18
SPEAKER_00: So um, yeah.
59:20
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I can't speak for everybody, but I I think I know a lot of really awesome public defenders that are just really overworked, you know.
59:30
SPEAKER_03: I think I think we just hate the anxiety of waiting and not knowing.
59:35
SPEAKER_03: Those two weeks are like, oh yeah.
59:39
SPEAKER_02: Um, I guess quick last, you know, whatever, 30-second question, whatever.
59:44
SPEAKER_02: Um what is something what do you enjoy the most about practicing law?
59:50
SPEAKER_02: What's something like that, whether it's right now specifically or over the course of your career, like something you can hang your hat on and be like, this is why I do what I do?
1:00:01
SPEAKER_00: Um well, I guess I love not hearing from my clients for a long time and then getting a random text, like, hey, I'm doing so awesome.
1:00:13
SPEAKER_00: And I think about you, and you know, this is your one step in that journey of me, you know, kind of getting my shit together.
1:00:21
SPEAKER_00: Uh, so you know, I have parents that'll text me like a picture of their kid in, you know, a graduation day outfit or whatever.
1:00:29
SPEAKER_00: Um, or, you know, like the client I talked about at the beginning who, you know, shot me a text and said, Hey, oh my gosh, I got my license and you know, I've had a full-time job for a long time.
1:00:40
SPEAKER_00: Um, so I think that's my favorite thing.
1:00:42
SPEAKER_00: And I like when people come in and they're all they come into court and they're either really nervous or they're really pissed off.
1:00:49
SPEAKER_00: And then they leave, like being like, wow, I was heard, somebody paid attention to me today, and you know, I resolve this and I can move on.
1:00:57
SPEAKER_00: So I don't know.
1:00:58
SPEAKER_00: I guess those are my two favorite things.
1:01:00
SPEAKER_02: That's awesome.
1:01:01
SPEAKER_03: Uh before before we break, your first impression of meeting me.
1:01:06
SPEAKER_03: I want to know it.
1:01:08
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
1:01:08
SPEAKER_00: I don't haven't told you this.
1:01:11
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
1:01:11
SPEAKER_00: Well, coaching softball.
1:01:13
SPEAKER_00: I didn't know your name.
1:01:14
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, okay, I gotta text this guy.
1:01:16
SPEAKER_00: He said he wants to volunteer to coach, and um, you weren't very talkative on text, which is like shocking now, thinking back.
1:01:24
SPEAKER_00: Um, and you came into practice and you had like full baseball pants on and cleats.
1:01:33
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, so I was so intimidated because I never played softball, I just coach it.
1:01:39
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, oh my god, this guy's gonna be like, we're doing this and this and this and this.
1:01:43
SPEAKER_00: And then you ended up being like the opposite of that, and yeah.
1:01:49
SPEAKER_00: So just funny to think that I was like intimidated and thinking, oh my gosh, he's gonna come over and take over everything and scream at the kids and do all this, and you're like, you're the nice coach.
1:02:01
SPEAKER_03: He's an annoying, annoying, positive child.
1:02:03
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that is awesome.
1:02:07
SPEAKER_02: Well, thank you, Leslie, for uh brief befriending our crazy friend Dan so that it made it possible for you to uh be with us tonight.
1:02:15
SPEAKER_02: So thank you for spending your time and uh yeah, letting us get to know you.
1:02:19
SPEAKER_02: We really appreciate it.
1:02:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thanks for having me.
1:02:23
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
1:02:24
SPEAKER_02: Uh shout out to our listeners.
1:02:25
SPEAKER_02: Please like, follow, and share on all socials at TrudgeReport Pod.
1:02:30
SPEAKER_02: Email us at Trudereport Pod at yahoo.com, send mailbag requests for topics, questions, and comments to any of these handles.
1:02:38
SPEAKER_02: Remember, we are all here if anyone wants to talk about recovery and our experiences, or if you're struggling with some form of addiction.
1:02:46
SPEAKER_02: Thank you again to Janine and Stellamix Podcast Management.
1:02:49
SPEAKER_02: Good night, God bless, and may you trudge the road of happy destiny.
1:02:53
SPEAKER_02: We will see you next week.