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Transcript

Privademics · Voices of Otolaryngology

• 0:01
  Welcome to the Voices of Otolaryngology podcast series, where we spotlight
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  diverse perspectives and insights within the field of otolaryngology.
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  I'm your host, Rahul Shah.
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  Let's jump into it.
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  Welcome to Voices of Otolaryngology
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  in my world. Some days you just get lucky.
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  So I'm here at Oto forum and I ran into Doctor Yen.
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  What a pleasure.
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  Very active with our academy, but also active in his practice.
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  Spoiler alert I was a medical student in 1998, rotated
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  at University of Pennsylvania for a month, and this guy was a chief resident then.
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  Outstanding. And then, as ever.
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  Welcome, students.
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  I remember fondly sitting in the cafeteria with,
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  I think I don't remember their names, Adam and some other folks.
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  It was terrific.
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  But it's neat how paths cross again.
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  It does go deep.
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  Doctor Yan today for about 15, 20, 25 minutes is going to talk about a term
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  that you helped us coined in our specialty with the hybrid nature of your practice.
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  Why don't you take it away and I'm gonna help guide the discussion.
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  Doctor Yen. Thanks, Rahul.
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  The term that we use to describe our practice is “privademics.”
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  And I think we use that term because to me,
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  it helps reflect how our circumstances change.
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  Classically, there is a line between or a concept
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  or structure of private practice versus or separate from academics.
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  But to me, the reality moving forward is some of those lines blur
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  where there's a lot of overlap.
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  Thus, the concept of “privademics”. And some of that comes
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  because us in private practice looking after patients, we might more
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  stereotypically be thought, be perceived as think about the business of medicine.
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  On the other hand,
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  so much of what we do in active health care is teaching for our patients.
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  And it's great to have a chance to be involved with learners in health
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  care as well.
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  So the institution that we're partner with, Saint Luke's,
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  they have a medical school. There's other residents.
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  So we've always had folks coming through.
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  So the prospect of saying, hey, wait, would it be feasible for us
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  to get involved with residency
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  and actually train the future otolaryngologists as well?
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  It sounded crazy, but that evolved, making us
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  truly academic in the sense that I think if you're engaged in teaching.
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  Right.
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  So, we're living the concept of “privademics” being in practice,
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  but also actively engaged in the education of colleagues.
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  All right.
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  So let's define it again because you said it private.
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  “privademics”
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  I don't think there's a yeah.
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  You could pronounce it either.
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  I. Then I call it “privademics”.
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  “Privademics.”
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  All right. Privademics. Privademics. Yep.
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  Private and active.
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  It rolls off the tongue.
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  Privademics.
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  Okay, so you have your practice.
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  Can you describe just your practice?
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  How many folks they are?
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  Sure, sure.
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  And where are you located?
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  So currently, my practice is not a specialty.
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  Physician associates.
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  We're part of a larger organization called ENT Specialty Partners.
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  But Specialty Physician Associates is based in Pennsylvania.
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  We do have one office in New Jersey.
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  So currently we have 13 ENTs.
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  We have seven allergists.
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  We have one pulmonologist who focuses primarily on sleep.
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  To me, it's not the specialty or the title of providers and providers or provider.
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  So I very firmly, firmly believe in including the other providers
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  in the organization the audiologists, the nurse practitioners, the PA.
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  So we're 40 about a 41 provider group.
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  41 clinicians, providers. That's right.
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  And then you probably have a 100 some staff.
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  That's about right.
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  So some total are about 110. Okay.
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  And then and thanks for the the brief answers I love it
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  because it can get me into the meat and potatoes. Sure.
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  So then you have academic programs that you're affiliated with.
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  You mentioned Saint Luke.
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  Talk to me. Yes.
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  So, as our private practice has grown and evolved, we're lucky enough
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  to grow together with a health health
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  care system called Saint Luke's University Health Network.
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  So even though we're in private practice, we are the ENT
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  and allergy service providers for a whole $3.5 billion.
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  Health care and allergy, not.
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  Yes, that's. Correct. So who rotates with you?
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  And you could talk a little bit about that.
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  So besides the medical students, besides PA students
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  for another institution called DeSales University that rotate with us,
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  we have learners in terms of graduate medical education from general surgery,
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  emergency medicine, transitional family practice.
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  Right.
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  And that rotate with us in addition to at this point,
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  currently our own otolaryngology residents. Okay.
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  So now you just I mean, my mind exploded because I'm going to start racing
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  with thoughts.
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  That's a lot of oversight.
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  Who does that for your practice? Well, that's.
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  Why it's a lot of paperwork.
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  That's a lot of evaluations. It is.
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  And you know, and you know,
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  and it's one of those things because it brings us joy.
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  And it's important.
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  But it does demand resources, right?
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  So in any given month, we might have 25 learners with us in a month with.
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  25 evals!
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  And if you give them all fives, that could take an hour to do so.
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  So it's substantial.
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  And we admit we're in the process of continuing to
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  work out how to how to sort this out in terms of resources and so on.
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  Right, so, so with with less and it brings us joy.
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  But it is work with less learners.
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  There was a period where, okay, what you can devote, what you can do.
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  But as the responsibility grows, it becomes one of those things
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  that becomes necessary to work out or sort out with our institution.
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  Right?
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  Nobody's greedy or pushy, but we want to be fair.
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  Oh, yeah.
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  You know, because it's reality, right?
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  And that's that's a nod to the private practice aspect.
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  We we have no, no marginal. Bills to. Pay.
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  That's correct.
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  No margin, no mission. Right. Do.
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  And you can single one group out I don't mind.
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  Does one group help you with productivity.
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  You could say yes.
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  The medical students help me take a history. Yes.
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  The general surgeons help me take out drains.
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  Does one group actually drive productivity or overall it does slow you down.
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  In in fairness, the only group that helps us with
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  productivity is truthfully our own otolaryngology residents.
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  Because yes, it's continuity, of course.
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  Yeah, it makes sense right there within our specialty. Right.
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  So the other learners, it's nice to have them.
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  But for the most part.
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  I mean, you're teaching the basics of, of it what an ear.
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  Looks like.
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  That's exactly right.
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  And don't get me wrong,
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  for the broader practice perspective, I've been in practice now for 25 years.
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  Many of the primary care physicians in the community may have passed through.
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  Absolutely. Drives referral is family practice residents.
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  So that's a that's that's been a nice piece to that that I bring up
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  and remind our associates with as we're devoting effort to these folks.
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  Right.
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  That that's not just teaching for the joy of teaching and teaching
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  for better patient care.
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  There is some some return as well in terms of, you know, people going up
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  to be referring providers.
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  So what?
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  You nailed it.
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  And shame on me for being so shortsighted.
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  I think that's myopic, but that's why we took the, eye out of ENT.
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  Okay, I don't know what it is, but I was too short sighted. You're right.
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  Because you're you're feeding that ecosystem.
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  Go back to the otolaryngology residents.
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  Let's focus on them.
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  How many? How do they rotate with you? What?
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  Yes. So so we were we were awarded the the residency in 2021.
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  I like that word. That's really generous word.
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  Well, no, it's one of these things.
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  And it was a deliberate choice as well.
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  It should be because it takes a lot of resources,
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  and we don't get to judge on whether we're right or appropriate in terms of case.
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  Yeah. And awarded by.
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  Who goes by and by the ACGME and the residents.
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  So, ACGME said
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  That's right. Okay. And I think
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  this information is
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  out there, due to AJ Tompkins work primarily heading up the.
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  Yeah we call them AJ “Workforce” Tompkins. Right.
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  Which which I'm pleased to serve on as a member myself.
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  But but from that, a closer look at workforce
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  and our needs of the new otolaryngology programs in the last 30 years,
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  we're we're one of those new programs.
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  So we award in 2021, we were awarded with two spots.
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  And you say we so other than Saint Luke's is your academic.
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  That's correct. Signatory. That's correct okay.
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  So so and it's an interesting you're. The clinical side.
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  That's right.
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  So so our private practice comprises the entire faculty.
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  That's my point for this residency. Right. So it's this hybrid thing.
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  But we have to be based an academic institution because of,
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  you know, the the support and all the infrastructure
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  that's necessary in terms of a designated institute.
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  So chicken or the egg? I'm thinking back to 1998.
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  I have no idea how we ever saw patients because him and I could do this forever.
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  But but you are a lot.
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  You're quicker back then.
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  So chicken or the egg? They came to you.
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  You came to them. It was a big.
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  It must have been a big leap for you as well.
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  You know, it's they are 41 providers, right.
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  It was a fascinating piece because right now, I'll give them credit
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  that they were always forward looking in terms of saying,
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  hey, if there's a problem or challenge in terms of workforce or anything else,
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  how do we address that? Right?
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  So I give them credit for saying we want to do a medical school
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  because their belief is that if students come to train
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  and learn in medical school, in the local community,
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  let's be honest, retention rate is great and. Local to me.
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  Where are you based? Out of which. Is a Bethlem. Pennsylvania.
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  All right.
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  Bethlem, Pennsylvania. So 2018, they came to you.
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  Yeah. And talked about I'd be scared.
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  Well, in fairness,
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  it was probably prior watching this evolution
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  because as they had other residency programs
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  and then expanded from what you might think of ones that were perhaps,
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  more complex family medicine, emergency management.
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  But as they rolled on to say, wait, if we grow our GME program to address
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  subspecialty needs.
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  So an orthopedic residency, you know, that was,
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  of the surgical subspecialties, that was the first surgical subspecialty
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  where they got a resident. So then they came to you all. Yeah.
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  And right now, as our group was lucky enough to grow along with the network and,
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  frankly, lucky enough to have
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  subspecialty expertise across the range of fellowships in our specialty.
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  So we're lucky enough to have multiple docs
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  and our group fellowship trained in head neck,
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  in and college in right knowledge and facial plastics.
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  So as we recognize that we had the team and really the interest to do it right.
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  Okay.
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  It's it's having all the resources, the interest and the commitment to teach.
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  So we said, you know what we think?
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  We think this is this is great. This is worthwhile.
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  We're we're going to do it right.
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  But there's a lot of thought
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  you're summarizing probably a lot of business meetings.
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  Yeah, a lot of thought and a lot of process.
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  And in fairness,
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  you know, we didn't get awarded the residency the first time we applied.
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  And I'm not. Sure. Thanks for that being upfront.
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  Yeah.
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  Well, I'm not surprised because it's a process, right, to to know how.
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  You had to tweak your submission and your.
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  That's exactly. So you two residents a year.
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  That's right.
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  That's amazing. Amazing.
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  And so tell me about their they rotate with you. They are with you.
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  Yeah I mean they are our residents.
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  Like you've got two new children right.
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  They're our residents full time.
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  So we grow to a full family, if you will.
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  Starting in, in, July when we have a full complement of ten resident.
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  Yeah. That's correct.
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  So, so yeah, very much like a you hit the nail.
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  It is it is truly a family in a different way.
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  But we're we we embrace the responsibility and we're proud of being entrusted
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  to train our future and do the best for, for these learners.
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  And one thing that will say, if I may, about our program,
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  we try to be deliberately different because you and I crossed paths
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  ay University of Pennsylvania, we have we're blessed
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  with these storied institutions, with residencies we can't recreate.
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  Fill in the blank of the name that you want.
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  We can't
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  recreate the storied academic history and offerings of these other programs
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  we're lucky to have.
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  So we're not trying to recreate that.
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  We're trying to build a unique thing. And one of the things I see
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  from the workforce perspective, this is my my opinion.
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  I think we're lucky to have a lot of colleagues who are subspecialty trained,
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  who want to pursue that expertise in an urban environment,
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  and I think that's great.
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  But I perceive a need workforce wise, for well-trained generalists in community
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  settings and versus
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  just acknowledging that or believing it, we should look, let's try to address that.
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  So the defined focus of our residency, we're not barring or limiting anybody
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  from pursuing what they wish in terms of sub-special expertise.
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  But I believe that our mission in our residency
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  is to train individuals who are capable of going out to practice
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  and providing superb ENT care in any community in America,
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  and that is our stated goal, and we feel that we fail our residents
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  if we're not doing that.
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  And frankly, we feel that we feel the specialty.
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  If we're not doing that. So that's what we're geared towards.
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  Incredible statement.
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  And, I love what you just said.
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  We don't have the storied academic history,
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  so let's not do FOMO and try to do that.
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  Let's be unique.
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  So I am a no.
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  I'd be a let's say I'm a MS4.
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  for fourth year medical student
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  sitting interviewing with you, who's the chair of the program?
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  That would be me.
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  Okay. Thank you.
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  Nice to meet you.
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  So I'm sitting with the chair of the program.
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  How do you sell me on that vision?
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  Because I agree with you.
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  But how do you how do you make a med student
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  understand that you're part of a journey and they're developing, right?
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  So to me, you know, it's.
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  Like it's like a David and Goliath.
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  I mean, you're agile, you bring something very different to the table.
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  It's it's one of these things. It becomes a question
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  of asking individuals, you know, what are they looking for?
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  Okay. And, you.
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  Know, for a fit. You're looking for what are they?
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  And I'm I think there's a lot of emphasis on research, which I think is great.
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  Even part of the private MC story is we are.
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  Actively thank you. And I wrote a paper together.
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  We're actively engaged in research sites.
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  So I'd say that,
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  but not every one of our colleagues in the future really wants to publish.
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  Additionally be involved. That and you know what?
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  That's okay. So you've kind of feel that out.
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  Yeah, that's and to a certain degree nowadays we need and want that okay.
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  And it's important in terms of training and getting there.
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  But not everyone needs to make a commitment
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  to be a research scientist for the rest of their career. Okay.
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  So it's an open discussion for individuals to really reflect what's the goal.
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  What do you see yourself
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  really wanting to do as an otolaryngologist in the future? Right.
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  And so we believe that to a certain degree, candidates will sub select
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  out, say, hey, wait, this is an experience that we think might be best for me.
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  And there's a lot of discussion. Let's think about where we're at today.
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  We're at the we're at the Oda forum. Right.
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  A big focus this is private practice of course.
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  And the business of medicine. Yeah. Right.
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  If we are think it's worthwhile to come back to learn. Now
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  there's a lot of discussion showing more that education earlier in the process.
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  And that's been a big ENT connect chat about that.
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  You know what I love?
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  What you're saying is instead of making every program homogenous,
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  there are some that will say,
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  we'll give you an extra year or two to get a grant funded research.
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  You go do that.
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  And you're saying our program is for a unique individual.
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  You come here and this is what you're going to learn.
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  So you'll be graduating your first class next May?
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  This 2026 will be our first graduating class.
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  Yeah, about a year from now. Yep, yep. How are you feeling?
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  I'm excited.
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  It's.
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  Got good hands. Good minds. Yeah. Compassion.
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  And, you know, I'm glad we have another year.
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  It's a five year residency for a reason.
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  Okay, but I feel very good.
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  And, you know, you mentioned the word like another family.
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  And, you know, Keith, Keith is very stressful.
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  But, you know, doctors contin.
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  Freeman. Are our children professional? If you.
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  What are your graduates exactly right.
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  Those are our current PGY 4s is going.
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  So I'm super excited
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  for there to to see what they go on to accomplish in the future.
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  I'm very, very excited.
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  As chair of the program, what's been your proudest resident moment?
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  You know, it's like taking a first step.
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  Was it that me or and got me to the carotid that PTA
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  when they manage anaphylaxis, when they did a tracheostomy,
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  when they called you and they put it all together.
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  What's one of your proudest moments?
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  And don't use the residents name. Just just tell me the moment.
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  I would David.
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  Yeah. And you're a lost for words.
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  I did it, man.
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  I stumped you! Like one.
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  Just give me one. One proud moment.
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  It happens, but it's when patients
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  recognize the care and expertise of our residents.
• 15:13
  That's. That's what I'm proudest about.
• 15:14
  Tell me a story.
• 15:15
  Yeah, I'm just so. So you know what?
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  You know,
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  it's difficult in patients inventory.
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  Who's actually the touchpoint?
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  We can always look back and see who's there.
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  Who does? The patient identifies their doctor. Right? Okay.
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  So that that piece of the continuity care when when they take the time to say,
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  you know what, your team came in and really made a difference.
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  That comes up all the time.
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  So when you're rounding, they'll say that, oh, doctor, again, we love Doctor Conti.
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  Okay.
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  Should this have me in the office on Tuesday, where I saw a patient?
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  And, you know, it's a common thing for epistaxis. And.
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  But if you're the one and you're not, health care
• 15:48
  and blood's fattening for your face, let's let's be honest.
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  It's it's an emergency.
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  First responder should have a skilled provider
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  with experience and a calm demeanor come in and help you in extremis.
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  That's something that's memorable.
• 15:59
  So that's why I use moments, if you will, because it comes up.
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  So my intern, not saying her name was in the office me on Tuesday
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  I went to see a patient.
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  She said
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  the team that came in was wonderful, and I looked in the note and I saw, oh,
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  this individual saw her. So I opened the door.
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  She said, I should come on in.
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  I said, this is your patient, all right?
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  And the patient, you could see her expression because.
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  So those are the moments I'm proud of.
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  Of, she gives me chills.
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  And you chose an Intern, not a PGY 4!
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  Well, I mean, good for you. Well, that's that's.
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  The honest example
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  You're you're.
• 16:29
  From this week. Right.
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  This that's why I pause is a moment.
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  It's a moment.
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  But that was that's occurrence this week and I got
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  I need IB I have to concede it's invigorating right.
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  Because you know we've been doing this for a while.
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  Things can get trite or the same or, you know, pick your term here.
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  But seeing this, it reminds you why you're doing what you're doing.
• 16:51
  Right.
• 16:51
  And so that's a huge upside of the residency which,
• 16:53
  which goes beyond any, any kind of other, return, if you will.
• 16:58
  That's a big component of it.
• 16:59
  What's been and be careful medical legally here.
• 17:02
  What's been the worst phone call. The scariest phone call.
• 17:05
  The when the chief of cardiothoracic calls you and said
• 17:07
  what did what did I'll pick on Doctor Conti.
• 17:09
  What's the other resident? Doctor Freeman.
• 17:12
  Doctor Freeman, what did Doctor Conti do?
• 17:13
  What a Doctor Freeman do or what?
• 17:16
  What's been where you haven't had to defend him.
• 17:18
  But what's been one of the hardest things? Is it growth?
• 17:20
  Is it thinking about making sure they hit their numbers?
• 17:23
  What what keeps you up at night is in this “privademics” world?
• 17:27
  You know. “Privademics.” I still can’t say it.
• 17:30
  This extends beyond our residents.
• 17:32
  And I think I'm going to say this and others can disagree.
• 17:35
  I think often us physicians, you know, we're our own worst enemy.
• 17:39
  Okay.
• 17:40
  And a lot of the things
• 17:42
  this is why I give you a lot of credit for what you're up to
• 17:43
  and what you're doing to drive team behavior, right?
• 17:47
  A lot of our education,
• 17:48
  you know, if you're strong, you can do it by yourself and and so on.
• 17:51
  But no matter how talented you are,
• 17:53
  you can always accomplish more when you're a team.
• 17:55
  So you're driving through Lehigh Valley
• 17:57
  and you think about the residency, you're thinking about a team.
• 17:59
  Yeah, here's. How the one works with the four.
• 18:02
  It's it's super, super important because, look, we've got challenges facing us.
• 18:06
  I'm not negative about it. I'm excited. Challenges are good okay.
• 18:09
  But if I have to face challenges I'd rather do so with the team.
• 18:12
  Right.
• 18:12
  So those are the things that I really see I there's there's been no like horror
• 18:16
  show kind of event with the residents but trying to.
• 18:18
  Ruin the.
• 18:18
  Teamwork but to deliberately educate them in this piece
• 18:21
  so things will come out that are just up stuff, right?
• 18:23
  Like, like that, that we, I haven't had to do in the longest time yet
• 18:27
  because we've created this residency.
• 18:28
  There's not this tradition, this is what happens with the call schedule.
• 18:31
  Yeah. Okay. So my chiefs were chiefs on there.
• 18:34
  That's right.
• 18:35
  So so figuring out the senior call schedule, the dynamic and how it goes.
• 18:38
  And that work in team behavior.
• 18:41
  That's one that's been a challenge.
• 18:42
  But to me I think it's super super.
• 18:44
  That gets me so excited though because you look back 20 years from now
• 18:47
  and then the schedule you create might become an anachronistic
• 18:51
  might be the mantra. And but you're creating that today.
• 18:53
  Yeah, right. How did the Chiefs oversee the force?
• 18:56
  And that's exactly right now.
• 18:58
  Incredible, incredible.
• 19:00
  Looking back at the 4 to 5 year journey, what advice do you give to our
• 19:03
  otolaryngologists out there who might be being approached by programs?
• 19:08
  Because I think you and I know we can't say the word “privademics”
• 19:12
  “Privademics”
• 19:13
  “Privademics” as we look forward.
• 19:15
  “Privademics” might be the future.
• 19:18
  And you're on to something.
• 19:19
  What advice do you give our otolaryngologists?
• 19:24
  I do believe it's the future.
• 19:25
  Okay.
• 19:26
  And and right now, I.
• 19:27
  It's not my phrase or comment.
• 19:30
  A colleague just said to me and I'm sure it's used by others,
• 19:32
  but but no margin, no mission.
• 19:34
  So you could have the purest commitment
• 19:36
  to science and the greater good in education.
• 19:38
  But we all work in a world
• 19:39
  where we have to be mindful of resources and expanse is just fact.
• 19:43
  Okay, so I think this drives things towards “privademics” because,
• 19:46
  you know, if you're on a purist academic model, we see this exists.
• 19:49
  I'll, I'll speak about my colleague,
• 19:52
  Mas Takashima, who's, who's chair at Houston Methodist.
• 19:54
  You know what what MOS is creating there with an academic center,
• 19:58
  but otolaryngologists in the community to create a foundation or base to refer in.
• 20:03
  Right. That makes sense to me.
• 20:04
  So you could argue that's coming from the academic side
• 20:07
  leaning towards private practice because it's necessary.
• 20:09
  You need the patient volume, the flow, the referrals.
• 20:12
  Similarly, for us,
• 20:13
  if we're straight line private practice, what allows us to grow and do more?
• 20:18
  Looking at the residency, another piece of it point blank is recruitment.
• 20:22
  We're creating product for the future.
• 20:24
  Now, not every one of our residents should join us right?
• 20:26
  Okay, but I know I've got friends across the country
• 20:29
  that are pretty happy that we have the program.
• 20:30
  So there's that piece of it.
• 20:32
  And so I do think it's the future and whether the future is”privademics”
• 20:35
  or looking above or over the barriers
• 20:39
  or the boundaries that might have been historic between different things.
• 20:42
  I think those are going away.
• 20:44
  And this is one look or one way that may be happening.
• 20:47
  Be careful when you answer these because they're publicly available.
• 20:50
  Podcast. They're not behind a firewall.
• 20:52
  What's your relationship with your academic mothership?
• 20:57
  Is it as
• 20:57
  they always are, a little bit oil and water, a little bit friction,
• 21:00
  or is it all, jumping through fields of poppy and. No.
• 21:06
  You know, I think with any partnership. Right.
• 21:08
  If you look at a marriage or business partnership or anything else,
• 21:11
  it takes commitment from both people.
• 21:13
  And it is by definition imperfect. Okay.
• 21:16
  But if certain things are their shared goals,
• 21:19
  some reasonable flexibility, a commitment to making it work, it does.
• 21:23
  Right.
• 21:23
  And this is come up this it comes up in a in an interesting fashion.
• 21:27
  So you know for us in the private practice side,
• 21:29
  if we commit resources to teaching and education,
• 21:32
  if I was formally speaking, employed
• 21:35
  by that academic center, I might get protected time the education okay.
• 21:38
  Your point one or point to, you know what.
• 21:40
  I definitely would yeah. Okay.
• 21:42
  Right now in the private practice world or how does that work.
• 21:45
  Right. So we're going to devote time...
• 21:47
  That's right.
• 21:48
  How is your income recovery and or compensation to make up for the time.
• 21:52
  And the downstream impact. Right.
• 21:53
  I mean, so there's that process of sorting that out with the institution
• 21:56
  because they do receive compensation for the residency.
• 22:00
  Yet we're doing it's not going to make you whole.
• 22:02
  Yeah, we're doing the work. So how do we sort that out.
• 22:03
  So it is very much an ongoing partnership where there's some give and take.
• 22:07
  And like any in partnership, it's imperfect.
• 22:09
  But I've been proud of the relationship that our group has.
• 22:11
  And it's one of these unspoken things too, like how is this work for us?
• 22:15
  We've really benefited by going alongside that institution.
• 22:18
  I have to say that. Right.
• 22:19
  So so it's exactly that imperfect for sure.
• 22:22
  Not all poppies, but not all nightmares either.
• 22:24
  Yeah, but it takes two special parties
• 22:27
  and you and your group are special in dancing with them.
• 22:30
  So, yeah.
• 22:30
  Kudos to you.
• 22:31
  And applying this
• 22:32
  philosophy of, of adaptability and capacity for change,
• 22:35
  you know, for me, I believe that's the defining characteristic of youth.
• 22:38
  You don't have to think about it when you're younger
• 22:40
  because your shoe size is changing and your shirt size is changing, right.
• 22:42
  And then and then then where we're at.
• 22:44
  Right. The change isn’t always good.
• 22:46
  Yeah. It's still changing, buddy.
• 22:47
  The wrong way. Right.
• 22:49
  But so it's a constant, you know, to think about it when you're younger.
• 22:51
  So okay that's a concept I'm going to embrace it.
• 22:53
  No it's not all good. But embrace rather than sitting still.
• 22:56
  And I think that philosophically there's the piece with the residency.
• 23:00
  But one of the nice things
• 23:01
  you're asking about what we may offer, since we're touching on that, is perhaps
• 23:05
  a bit more flexibility
• 23:06
  than a traditional academic institution in terms of engagement
• 23:09
  with industry, which I concede is near and dear to my heart.
• 23:12
  Okay, because I. Believe you're right.
• 23:15
  To have the tools that we need to take care of the patients that we wish
• 23:20
  to do, take care of and do a better job, that it requires cooperation.
• 23:23
  So you partner with industry, cooperate with them to drive innovation
• 23:27
  and educate residents. That's exactly. Right.
• 23:30
  And there's overlap here in terms of exposure to new technology
• 23:33
  or better yet, a chance to get engaged with feedback in development,
• 23:36
  whether it's clinical research or other things.
• 23:38
  And that aspect of education, I believe, is is particularly unique
• 23:44
  to a residency that our residents
• 23:45
  get more of that exposure they might elsewhere to, to sort of
• 23:49
  see how the sausage is made, if you will, if it comes to biodesign or
• 23:52
  proving devices or other things.
• 23:54
  Right, which is which is a nice thing.
• 23:55
  Yeah.
• 23:56
  Wow. Could you let our members know your various hats or roles
• 23:59
  you play in the academy?
• 24:01
  And I can remind you, if you forget some.
• 24:03
  Sure.
• 24:04
  So I'm happy and lucky enough to serve on the nominating committee
• 24:07
  for Academy, which is an elected position.
• 24:08
  So I'm grateful for the trust and the votes of of colleagues
• 24:11
  and especially I think that's an important role.
• 24:13
  So I'm very happy to serve in that capacity.
• 24:16
  You know, here as part I'm a member, of course, of the Otolaryngology
• 24:19
  private practice section, and I'm the OPPS
• 24:22
  representative to the ENT PAC board of directors.
• 24:26
  So I serve in that capacity as well, lucky enough to have some,
• 24:29
  committee membership.
• 24:30
  I serve on the task force.
• 24:32
  Excuse me, the workforce task force for our specialty.
• 24:34
  I mentioned it earlier.
• 24:36
  The amount of work and effort that AJ, Tom - Tompkins put in is tremendous.
• 24:40
  I'm pleased to be able to try to do my little part to contribute,
• 24:44
  as well as the other members of that, that task force
• 24:47
  I serve on the medical devices and, committee as well.
• 24:51
  Right.
• 24:52
  I said I'm interested in innovation and new things.
• 24:54
  So to have a chance to participate in that regard, I, I do I do there as well.
• 25:00
  Other parallel
• 25:01
  organizations, the American Rhinological Society,
• 25:05
  I'm a member lucky enough to serve, in the section of rhinology
• 25:09
  and private practice as the research chair
• 25:11
  for the rhinology private practice, section, again, touching on this.
• 25:15
  Very active and what you do.
• 25:16
  And so we we so appreciate it.
• 25:18
  This podcast was to speak to an innovator out there who's helping us
• 25:24
  understand how private and academics, move forward in the future.
• 25:28
  And it's just really my honor,
• 25:30
  I knew back when I was a med student, you're a special guy.
• 25:32
  And and seeing what you've built is really cool. My pledge is
• 25:34
  to visit you in the Lehigh Valley and really see how the program works.
• 25:37
  Yeah. You're welcome. Any time I will be there. I'll be there.
• 25:40
  Congratulations. Really awesome what you build, Doctor Yen.
• 25:42
  Thank you. Thanks for having me, I appreciate it.
• 25:44
  We hope today's episode sparked some fresh ideas.
• 25:47
  If it resonated with you, please subscribe and share it with friends.
• 25:51
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• 25:52
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• 25:54
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• 25:56
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• 25:57
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• 26:01
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