Latest / The Art of Costume Podcast / The Queen of Versailles with Christian Cowan - The Costume House with Spencer Williams

Transcript

The Queen of Versailles with Christian Cowan - The Costume House with Spencer Williams · The Art of Costume Podcast

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  In my runways, I would be like, OK, let's make the most
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  harmonious, beautiful, kind of like chic look that works
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  together. But with this, it was like, OK,
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  we've made this gown now what necklace shouldn't really go
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  with this, but like or what shoe makes no sense with this.
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  What would Jackie pick in her closet?
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  Because she's excited about it. And I just really saw something
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  in her that I love in my clients within my career is people who
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  just excited by the craft. Welcome to The Costume House
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  with Spencer Williams, a podcast dedicated to the art and
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  storytelling of costume design in film, television, and
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  theater. I'm your host, Spencer Williams.
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  Thank you so much for being here.
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  Today's guest is someone whose work is instantly recognizable
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  for its joy, audacity, and full throttle glamour.
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  Christian Cowan Christian has become a defining voice in
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  contemporary fashion, known for his bold vision and exuberant
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  sense of spectacle. His designs have lit up red
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  carpets and stages around in a world worn by icons such as
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  Beyoncé, Lady Gaga, Miley Cyrus and Zendaya and celebrated
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  everywhere from Fashion Week to Vogue and the New York Times.
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  But now he brings that signature energy to a brand new stage.
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  Broadway The Queen of Versailles marks Christians Broadway
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  costume design debut A glittering high drama musical
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  world built on excess aspiration comedy and some truly delicious
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  fashion storytelling. Today we talk about stepping
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  into the world of theater for the first time, crafting
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  wardrobes big enough to fill the Versailles of Florida, and how
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  he translated his runway sensibility into a character
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  driven Broadway narrative. The Queen of Versailles is
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  playing now through December 21st, 2025 at the Saint James
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  Theatre. Head to
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  queenofversaillesmusical.com and get your tickets now.
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  And with that, it's time to step inside the Costume house.
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  I'm so happy to welcome my new friend, Designer Christian
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  Cowan. Christian, I'm so pleased to
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  meet you. Thank you for being here.
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  Hello. Thank you for having me.
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  I'm so honored. I'm so honored.
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  And I wish I had as beautiful of a backdrop as your lovely green
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  curtains operation, but you. Gosh, well, thank you.
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  This is not real, but your brick wall behind you looks very
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  lovely, so I'm. Silhouetted I've got Monica
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  Bellucci has joined the chat as well so it's perfect.
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  Which is always a plus for me. Well, Christian, I am so excited
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  to talk to you. We have a lot of great stuff to
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  get into. Obviously you're celebrated
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  fashion designer. Your collections have been worn
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  by Beyoncé, Gaga, Miley Cyrus, and Daya.
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  We could go on and on. But today we're talking about
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  your Broadway costume design debut for the show The Queen of
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  Versailles. I have to start by asking, did
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  you always imagine yourself stepping into this world of
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  Broadway? What what drew you to this
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  medium? It had to have been there
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  somewhere. It's been here for a long time.
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  I mean, obviously, like I'm based in New York and my whole
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  career has been here. And I when I first came to New
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  York when I was 10, I came, I saw Moulin Rouge and it was like
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  such a formative experience. And so forevermore, like it was
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  always something I wanted to do. And I remember being kind of
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  surprised when I entered my kind of like high fashion career of
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  like how separated the two industries are at times, even
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  though we share this wonderful city together.
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  And so forever I was like, that makes no sense.
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  Like why is the fashion world and the Broadway world in one
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  city and then not overlapping enough in my opinion.
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  So there's always there's always on my little hit list of things
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  to do. And I can't really believe it's.
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  And now we're here and it's happened and it's on the stage.
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  Yeah. It's so odd that sometimes they
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  just don't speak to each other the way you think they would.
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  And also Moulin Rouge will get you that.
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  That's like that's a gateway for sure.
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  It was a gateway. It was it was a gay awakening.
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  It was so many things all at once.
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  Yeah, yeah. I just, I think more of the
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  fashion world should countdown to the Broadway world and
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  Broadway to fashion. Like there's such AI think
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  people think they're so different.
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  They are so different, but the same principle is there if if
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  you're designing is driven by character.
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  And did you always find yourself to find like a theatricality in
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  your work before that maybe kind of helped you attuned to this
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  Broadway landscape? Absolutely.
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  I mean, my career started by addressing singers, mainly
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  artists. And so you know, the whole, not
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  only the expression of character and you're, you're doing a
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  performance, but also the whole practical side of just, it's got
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  to be durable. It's got to be able to be
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  sweated in and moved in. And the zippers got to be strong
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  and heels going to be a certain width because of the holes on
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  the stage like that sort of stuff that I'm very used to
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  because that's how I already began.
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  So I think it made sense that it's just an extension of
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  performance. Well, let's get into the show.
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  So your costume design has quickly become one of the
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  production's stand out highlights.
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  I mean, every review seems to go to the costumes of the show.
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  So the musical is partly inspired by the documentary.
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  The same name following Jackie and David Siegel's quest to
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  build 100 dollar $100 million mansion in Orlando.
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  Jackie's dream home modeled after the Palace of Versailles,
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  all just before the 2008 recession.
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  So there's a lot happening there.
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  How did you tap into the mindset and the glamour of the Queen of
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  Asai? We're watching a documentary.
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  Were you looking at reference photos?
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  How do you even start? Well, so I'm a big fan of Lauren
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  Greenfield, the documentary maker who made the original
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  documentary. I'm a big fan of her work.
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  And I remember years ago, my parents, like maybe 10 years
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  ago, gave me a book called Generation Wealth by her.
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  It's amazing. It just delves into this topic
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  of like, what is the American Dream and the toxicity behind
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  this kind of onslaught of commercialism that is so
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  intertwined with the American Dream in so many ways.
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  And so I loved that book and I liked what it represented.
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  I like finding the darkness within the beauty, like the the
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  person who has all the most gorgeous clothes in the gorgeous
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  homes. But there's some darkness that
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  I've always loved those characters in film.
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  And so that was already a big inspiration point for my own
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  brand. Really.
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  I liked that maximalism that had something off.
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  And then so I was kind of like red born to do it in a way.
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  And then I I went around town telling people that I wanted to
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  do a Broadway show and someone, this amazing Broadway producer,
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  Bill Damasci, contacted me being like, hey, I'm doing a Broadway
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  show based on that documentary Queen of Versailles.
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  And I was like, say less, I will do it because it's just so my
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  SO. I love that.
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  So the show is directed by Michael Arden.
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  Can you talk about your creative collaboration with with the
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  director and how the two of you shaped the visuals for this
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  world? I mean, Michael, firstly, I was
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  just so honored and gagged that my first Broadway thing got to
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  be with a director like Michael Arden.
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  And I'm such a fan of his work in the past.
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  So to be able to absorb from him and learn from him, you know,
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  like in my career up until now, a lot of the time it's my own
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  creative I'm dictating and then following.
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  And I found it so inspiring to get his notes and his changes.
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  And like, he really encouraged me to delve into kind of the the
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  low points of Jackie's costuming.
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  You know, my mind is obviously off the races with the gowns and
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  the things, but he really encouraged me to expand upon
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  those casual looks, but like bring so much characters to
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  them. And also just watching the way
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  that Michael conducts. But everyone is masterful.
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  It is masterful just seeing how someone can harness so many
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  creatives and make them all collaborate in such a good way.
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  So I just learned so much now. I'll always be very, very
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  grateful that my first projects got to be.
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  With him, I mean, it's clear that that collaboration really
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  worked quite seamlessly both on stage and off.
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  Another collaboration that I would love to get into, Jackie
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  Sequels, played by Kristen Chen, with Bold, Vibrant, endlessly
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  aspirational. What was it like this?
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  Like this version of Jackie, this actually real person to
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  life. Well, I was so nervous the first
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  time I was meeting Kristen, and I very rarely get nervous.
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  But I've realized the people that you get nervous around are
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  the people that you loved as a child.
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  Those are the people that really get you.
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  So I remember once when I met Vanessa Williams, I was obsessed
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  with Willemina Slater. So like I was, I was like dying
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  at meeting her. And I had the exact same for
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  Kristen. You know, I grew up on the
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  school bus singing along to popular and it was a huge part
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  of like my childhood experience. And so to meet her, it was a
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  dream come true because she was just the, there was like a big
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  warm hug the second I met her. And she wanted to know about me
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  and not just my work. She wants to know about me
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  personally. And, and honestly, I, I mean it.
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  One of my best takeaways of this whole experience has been my
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  friendship with Kristen. She's such a true and real
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  friend and such a supporter and also a dream to dress because
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  she looks amazing and everything you put her in.
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  So it's like it makes my job so easy.
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  And she's also just game. She wants to dazzle people.
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  She wants to do the thing. She doesn't care too much about
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  being comfortable. Another designer's dream.
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  And yeah, it's like she's a Tour de force.
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  Like the way, I don't know, I've never seen anyone work that hard
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  in my life. It's honestly really
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  inspirational. Like she's nonstop working.
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  She nonstop has time for everyone.
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  It's really rare, honestly, someone like that, so blessed to
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  being able to have worked alongside her.
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  So from a costume point of view, when we're talking about Jackie,
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  I'm seeing lots of pinks, lots of sparkles, lots of glamour.
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  Even though we're heading barreling toward a recession,
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  tell me a little bit, without spoiling too much, what the
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  costumes are going to look like when you see Jackie on stage.
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  What's so fun about this show is not only Jackie's costume
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  tracking, but then in comparison to like everyone else on that
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  stage as well. But like Jackie is this
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  wonderful fusion of all the money in the world and an
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  obsession with color and sparkle, but then a very unique
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  language of how she puts that together.
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  And that was really fun to play with.
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  It was about, hey, what does this not necessarily like in my
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  runways, I would be like, OK, let's make the most harmonious,
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  beautiful, kind of like chic look that works together.
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  But with this, it was like, OK, we've made this gown.
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  Now what necklace shouldn't really go with this, but like or
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  what shoe makes no sense with this.
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  What would Jackie pick in her closet because she's excited
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  about it. And I got, I got the honor of
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  Jackie giving me a tour of her closet in the in the house
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  itself. And yeah, which is wild and
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  everything you expected to be. It was amazing.
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  That's a dream, actually. It is her closet is 2 stories.
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  It's got beds and stairwells and it's got, I mean 10s of
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  thousands of pieces of clothing and handbags and display things.
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  And it was so much fun seeing and I just really saw something
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  in her that I love in my clients within my career is people who
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  are just excited by the craft of clothes and just love to
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  celebrate clothes. And they're not necessarily
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  worried about fitting into a trend or doing this or doing
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  that. Just joy.
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  Like she brings the joy out in clothing.
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  So that was really fun to bring in.
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  But then I love the contrast of Jackie Siegel's character was
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  this exotic bird surrounded by normal birds.
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  And so it was, it was about creating those 2000 and
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  something teenage looks and those construction worker looks.
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  But then I also got to do period French court, which was such a
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  treat. So there's so many
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  juxtapositions. It was very fun.
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  Yeah, well, that leads me to my next question, because I'm a
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  costume nerd. I love history.
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  I love period costumes, so when I was diving into all of your
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  beautiful illustrations and seeing some of these pictures,
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  one of my favorite elements is, of course, the historical
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  costume. And so I have to ask you, what
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  did your research process look like?
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  We're going to get into the Marie Antoinette gown in a
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  minute, but just tell me first diving into the history of it
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  all. Well, I mean, you're in New
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  York. Save a wealth of information and
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  research and history around you so.
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  Lucky and I chose to see this show not as just a modern day
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  show with a period element, but I think it's got two period
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  elements. There is the kind of Louis the
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  14th to Louis the 16th, you see. And then there is also the
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  2000s, which to me is a period. Now it is a period and I took
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  both as seriously as each other in their realism to what was
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  going on. The only slight outline to that
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  was Mary Antoinette, which I'll get on to in a second, but
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  everyone else was very much verbatim to someone within the
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  French court who wore an outfit like that.
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  So it was really just about researching loads of, we've got
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  loads of books scarred the Internet found all the paintings
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  I could find of costumes that celebrated using.
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  I wanted to use a lot like primary colors within the French
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  court because I feel in modern day interpretations to the
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  French court, you often get this like pastelized conversion,
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  which definitely happened. But also it was a big trend at
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  the time to just enjoy bold Reds, bold Blues, bold greens,
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  like these kind of like less fashiony colorways, but and
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  using as many of those colors as possible.
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  I didn't want to make harmonious palette across the stage because
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  it's been done before and it's been done to perfection.
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  So it's like, let's give something else.
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  So we very much went for realism down to the trims, down to the
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  techniques used to make them, you know, collaborating with
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  people like Eric Winterland who are so knowledgeable.
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  There was a massive parts of it for me as well was Eric was just
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  so intensely knowledgeable about human.
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  Incredible. I'm a true master.
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  And so it was an education. Like I was very happy to give in
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  and learn. And I was like, you know, this
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  is what I want, help me get there.
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  And I can't stand when people just try to bulldoze through,
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  you know, these amazing costume makers talents and try and put
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  their own perspective. So it was very much
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  collaboration, which was amazing.
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  And then it was the same for 2000s costumes.
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  I used a lot of my references on my sisters at the time.
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  So I put all their horrendous fashion decisions into that
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  show. It's the.
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  Got through Facebook for a bit, yeah.
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  Yeah, like the awkward layer. And they're like different bra
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  tops with like baggy tops over jeans with like the jeans that
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  like get frayed at the back and have the salt rings on them and
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  the, and the, the owl pendant necklaces, like just all these
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  things that for some reason we all thought were great at the
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  time. And that was so much fun to
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  explore. But then with going back to
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  French court as well, the only place that I kind of deviated
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  from real life, like out of Austria was out of Austria,
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  blah, blah, blah. Everyone was everyone.
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  But for Marie, I wanted to do some refresh spin one probably
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  out of like selfishness because what a dream just to be able to
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  do your own take. But also I kind of wanted to do
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  some. There's one which is very much
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  within a color palette we've seen before.
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  It's almost a shepherdess fantasy, almost harkening back
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  to like her village that she had.
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  But then there's this final main one and I was like, what's the
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  color palette that I haven't really seen done on Marie
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  before? And I'll say I've never really
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  seen this like sunset kind of tonal palette, this like warm
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  pinks with warm oranges with yellows.
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  And Cassandra, the actress who's playing Marie, I was like, this
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  is going to look so beautiful in her.
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  And we had this like pink wig. But in my research about Marie,
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  apparently she had this dress that had handmade ceramic vases
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  into woven into the gown itself. And then there was fresh flowers
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  placed in the little vases as an adornment.
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  And I was like, well, we have to do that like that.
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  That just has to take place. That's just the most incredible.
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  And, and so so the depiction of like what the show is about this
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  like mass ostentatious wealth. And so we had these amazing 3D
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  printed little ceramic vases done because they were lighter
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  weight for the costume. And then they were all hand
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  painted. And then we got handmade silk
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  flowers done and placed them in it.
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  And it was just was fun. It's gorgeous.
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  I mean, when you read that, you must be like, well, we can't
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  unread that like we're going to. Get these.
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  I was like, there's no conversation about it and
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  they're like, oh, it's going to be really expensive.
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  And I was like, cool, this is. A story about the Palace of
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  Versailles, So. Exactly.
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  That's what I'm saying. It's, and also I'm sorry, like
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  if someone's travelled from France or Oklahoma or wherever
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  it is and come to New York to see a Broadway show and they're
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  here, goddammit, they're going to see a fabulous Marie
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  Antoinette costume Like they, they, they've got to get their
• 17:14
  back to their back. That's.
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  What? I'm talking about Christian
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  Cowan giving the people what they want, honestly.
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  There's a big thought process about my whole thing is I really
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  think about like the average like person going to go see a
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  Broadway show, not someone from our world, not someone even from
• 17:29
  New York, just someone coming. I like, I want to make sure that
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  they are having the experience that they're excited for.
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  I think that's so important. Right.
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  And another stand out costume you shared on Instagram is this
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  lilac metal Python skin dress that I'm just absolutely in love
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  with because of the texture. And I feel like texture really
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  plays like a big role in your process as a as a costume
• 17:52
  designer, I'll say. Massively, Yeah, very true.
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  Like throughout this show, just for Kristen Jackie's tracking,
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  one of my main things was I was like, I want to express nearly
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  every color. Like I want to see her in all
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  the colors and I want to get as many different textures, prints,
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  everything, because that's what my experience I got from
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  Jackie's closet. And so the Python was a perfect
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  extension of that of, well, if you're thinking of this
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  character who's got all the money in the world and loves
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  luxury, she'd have like Python skin stuff and all that.
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  So that had to be in it. And I always joke that her
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  neutral was animal print. So like there was cheetah print,
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  there was zebra stuff, there was and the Python stuff, there was
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  all sorts of different prints. Well, we have a little extra
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  time, so I actually want to talk about another character as well.
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  F Marie Abraham is in this musical.
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  I mean, what a legend. Tell me a little bit about his
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  character as well. Well, first, I've just got a
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  disclaimer. He's the funniest man alive and
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  I believe it. He's so lovely.
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  He's constantly cracking jokes and he's also just so kind and
• 18:59
  like caring. I just really adored him.
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  And his character was really fun to dive into because he was the
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  perfect kind of thing to play off of for Jackie, you know,
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  that he's actually, you know, the man bringing in all the
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  money. But like many of those men that
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  they're not, you know, fashion obsessed and they often like
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  what they like and they're not deviating.
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  And I studied, I got to meet David Siegel, luckily before he
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  before his sad passing, but I also just looked at what he wore
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  and he he liked to be comfortable.
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  He liked a loose fitting suit. It wasn't about the most amazing
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  dazzling suiting. Like I don't think that was his
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  concern in life. And he loved like a printed like
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  palm leaf shirt. And so I kind of kept that going
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  throughout his closet. But then I really wanted to show
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  points of bankruptcy and stuff. You know, there are many lines
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  in the script that allude to everything's OK as long as the
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  money's there. And so when the money wasn't
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  there, I wanted to really show that level of depression within
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  his clothing. So, you know, you see F Murray
• 20:04
  in like loose I'll fitting bad tank tops and like loose kind of
• 20:10
  like baggy ugly shorts. And like pulled up socks, like
• 20:13
  things that aren't finessed or nice.
• 20:15
  And he's on this stage with all this like gold gilt stuff and a
• 20:19
  wife in a Python skin dress, but he's in that watching TV.
• 20:24
  And I think that contrast was important to highlight Jackie's
• 20:28
  kind of extremeness, but also to highlight the complexities of
• 20:33
  their relationship through these huge hurdles that they faced.
• 20:37
  Umm, so there's, I don't, I think people quite realized how
• 20:40
  much thought went into F Murray's wardrobe.
• 20:43
  But I was really pleased with how it turned out.
• 20:45
  And I felt bad one day he was like, can I not wear something
• 20:50
  nice? And I was like, Oh my God, I
• 20:53
  will work out one or two nice suits.
• 20:55
  But otherwise, I'm sorry I'm keeping you in these.
• 20:57
  Outfits, right? I mean, it's such an excellent
• 21:00
  character study. So your team shared with me
• 21:03
  before that the Queen of Versailles features around 375
• 21:07
  costumes on stage, which is a massive number.
• 21:10
  But then we start to factor in everything else.
• 21:12
  I mean, we're talking about roughly over 1000 costumes at
• 21:15
  this point, 1100. It's a massive undertaking,
• 21:18
  Christian. So can you talk about the scale,
• 21:20
  talk about your team and how you were all able to pull this off
• 21:24
  together? Not for one second do I want
• 21:26
  anyone to believe, but it was all in one person please.
• 21:29
  Like it was an A small army of us like like my team.
• 21:35
  I can't like begin to summarize how grateful I am to the team.
• 21:39
  You know, I'm a first timer and no matter how eager 1 is and how
• 21:44
  excited and how much someone researches, there's just a bunch
• 21:47
  of shit that you have to learn on the job because it's such a
• 21:50
  it's a whole new world. I didn't know how previews and
• 21:53
  tech and tech works. I didn't know about how it works
• 21:56
  outside of the when you're doing your Boston run and then this
• 21:58
  and all the read throughs. I didn't know so much.
• 22:02
  And the people on my team held my hand and educated me and
• 22:06
  brought me through it so incredibly from, you know, the
• 22:12
  people to my immediate side, but who helped me to the
• 22:16
  seamstresses, to the 3D printers, the assistants who
• 22:20
  were in charge of fabrics, watching.
• 22:22
  You know, we had a large team and it was but one of the main
• 22:26
  beautiful parts about the experience was being able to
• 22:28
  work with that many talented people who love what they do.
• 22:30
  That's the beautiful thing about Broadway.
• 22:31
  I've really like, really learned from this experiences.
• 22:35
  It is one of the industries I've touched into the most where
• 22:37
  people love what they do. People love it so deeply.
• 22:41
  They're not there for the acclaim or the money.
• 22:46
  They're there for the pure passion.
• 22:48
  And that's my favorite thing in this life is to work with people
• 22:50
  like that. That's the thing that makes you
• 22:52
  want to continue what you're doing.
• 22:54
  So that was incredible. And and taking on a production
• 22:58
  of this size, you know, I definitely had some insecure
• 23:01
  moments where I was like, am I meant to be finding it this
• 23:04
  overwhelming? And it's like this hard.
• 23:06
  And there would be like, this is a 10 out of 10 of complexity of
• 23:09
  Broadway show. Like you need to understand that
• 23:11
  this is extreme. And it's a bit like a baptism by
• 23:15
  fire of, you know, it being my first gig, but I'm so grateful
• 23:19
  for it because I feel like if we could, we could do that show
• 23:24
  with all of its complexities, we could do anything.
• 23:27
  So, and I hope I get to work with many of my team members
• 23:29
  again because it was amazing. And then also outside of my own
• 23:33
  team, Sorry to ramble. The outside my own team as well.
• 23:35
  So inspired by Dane sets and Lauren and Crees choreography
• 23:40
  and just seeing how everyone else worked and ran their
• 23:42
  departments. I've never had that experience
• 23:45
  before. I've never watched a different
• 23:46
  fashion brand. I've only ever done my own
• 23:48
  brand. So I only really know my own
• 23:49
  leadership style. And so to be able to experience
• 23:52
  everyone else that I, I just, it was one of the most helpful
• 23:56
  career experiences I've ever had because I just got to absorb it.
• 24:00
  Or even staying house, seeing how Stephen Schwartz works with
• 24:02
  his team and how involved he is, it's like, yeah, it was amazing.
• 24:07
  It's totally amazing. That synchronosity obviously
• 24:10
  just. Worked so well together.
• 24:12
  And I mean, you should be so proud.
• 24:14
  I mean, for this to be your first year, big debut, what like
• 24:17
  you said, what a big the project to do as your first, I can't
• 24:21
  even imagine very. Honored.
• 24:23
  This was such a credible production looking back on this
• 24:27
  entire process. What has the Queen of Versailles
• 24:29
  meant to you, looking back on it now?
• 24:32
  I think on a personal, it's meant personal growth.
• 24:35
  It really has like, and I don't just mean professional like I
• 24:40
  think I was in a run of doing fashion show after fashion show
• 24:44
  after fashion show. And it's don't get me wrong, I
• 24:47
  adore it and I will continue to do it, but you can stagnate a
• 24:52
  little bit. You know, you're with your same
• 24:54
  team and you're essentially working under like some sort of
• 24:57
  creative dictatorship of your own because within your own
• 25:00
  mind, you're never having any external influences push you in
• 25:03
  a different direction. And so to be able to be pushed
• 25:07
  and pulled and learn and critiqued and have notes and
• 25:13
  just all the stuff that comes with working on a production
• 25:15
  with this many people, it just helped me grow as an artist so
• 25:18
  much. So I think the show always been
• 25:20
  growth for me and, and just very grateful for it.
• 25:24
  And it's always going to have the biggest place in my heart
• 25:27
  because it was my first ever costume design job in its
• 25:31
  entirety. I've done a few dresses for
• 25:32
  films before but nothing, nothing like this.
• 25:35
  Well then I have to ask, I mean, do you see more costume design
• 25:38
  in your future? Absolutely, if someone will have
• 25:42
  me, I would love it. But like, I definitely am very
• 25:46
  conscious of what type of product I'll take on next.
• 25:48
  I, I don't know what it is yet, but I, I might, there's some
• 25:54
  things, but I would love to do a film, I'd love to do ATV show.
• 25:57
  I kind of want to taste them all and see what is my favorite
• 26:01
  thing. I'd definitely like to do more
• 26:03
  Broadway. I'd love to do an opera, I'd
• 26:04
  love to do a ballet. Uh, so I definitely want to do
• 26:07
  them all. Umm, but I'd definitely do
• 26:10
  another Broadway show. Like it was so fun.
• 26:14
  I'm sad that it's now left my life.
• 26:16
  I'm like, I miss, I miss it. You've become a family with
• 26:19
  these people. So yeah, I miss it.
• 26:21
  Well, I could speak for everyone listening that we are all hoping
• 26:25
  to see more of it because you're so great at it.
• 26:28
  Designer Christian Cowan, thank you so much for being here.
• 26:30
  This has been such a joy. I'm so glad I got to talk to
• 26:33
  you. And I can't wait to make it over
• 26:35
  to New York and see the Queen of Versailles in person in New
• 26:39
  York. Tickets are available now.
• 26:40
  So thank you so much Christian, for being you.
• 26:42
  Too. Thank you.
• 26:43
  This was an honor. Thanks.
• 26:44
  And I let me know when you're in New York.
• 26:46
  We can get a cocktail. Yes, please.
• 26:48
  The Costume House with Spencer Williams is a production of the
• 26:51
  art of costume This. Episode was hosted, produced.
• 26:54
  And edited by Spencer Williams. To discover more conversations
• 26:57
  with the designer shaping film, television and theater, visit
• 27:01
  theartofcostume.com or follow us on social media at The Art of
• 27:05
  Costume. And don't forget to connect with
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