Latest / The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast / How To Love Others {Without Losing Yourself}

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How To Love Others {Without Losing Yourself} · The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: So, if I can learn how to get my value, my worth from a genuine place on the inside, it frees me up because all the books I read on people pleasing when I was going to write this one, everything I read was about you've got to forget about other people and just please yourself, take care of you.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: There's memes, there's all kinds of stuff that says, just forget everybody else.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: Just it's you're the most important.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought, but I like people, I want to help people.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: So the transition, I think, and what I did in this book was just what I discovered that people pleasing is not a negative thing you have to get rid of.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's could be your superpower.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's your strength that God has given you if it's coming from the right place.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: Now I can serve others because I deeply care about it, including my kids.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: So it ties all the way around.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_03: Hi, my name is Amy Wicks, and I help you navigate the overwhelm and frustration of motherhood through faith, Enneagram, and simple plans.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_03: As a faith-based Enneagram coach, I champion you to love your mothering style because you are the mom your kids need, even when you don't feel like it.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_03: I'm a mountain mama who somehow ended up on a cul-de-sac in the Midwest, overwhelmed and frustrated by motherhood.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_03: But the Lord didn't let me stay there.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_03: He helped me turn the challenges of motherhood into a wholehearted decision to get intentional with my faith, my self-awareness, and my family.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_03: Each episode of this podcast provides perspective through story, whole-hearted purpose, and simple plans so you can discover how to love your mothering style and be confident that you are the mom your kids need.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_03: Think of this podcast as your on-the-go mom pal and friend who can't help but talk about Jesus and the Enneagram.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_03: So get to that pile of laundry, or hit the treadmill, or load up the kids in the car for that grocery run.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_03: Get ready to be encouraged and empowered while you listen.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_03: This is the Simply Wholehearted Podcast.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_03: Do you love helping people?
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_03: Do you want others to like you and think well of you?
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_03: But do you often feel trapped in an exhausting and debilitating cycle of people pleasing?
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, I know what you mean.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_03: Because often people pleasers like you and me, we get stuck giving without thanks and without receiving anything back in the end.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_03: So this is why I've invited Dr.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_03: Mike Bechtel, an author and teacher who has written several books to show us how to stop letting our fears of rejection, criticism, and inadequacy dictate our actions.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_03: This conversation and his books are full of helpful advice and wisdom.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_03: So you can turn these struggles into a superpower.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_03: And you know that I am always down for that.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_03: We're gonna jump right into this conversation about Enneagram, raising kids, and rebuilding our sense of worth from the inside out.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's very hard.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why to me, the I I learned about the Enneagram back in 2018.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: And it was with a group that I was involved with in uh Nashville and determined, I was told that if you move to Nashville, they stop you at the border, and if you don't know your number, they don't let you move in.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_03: Hilarious! I love it.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_03: That's so cool.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm in I'm in Southern California and it's not nearly as big here, but it's starting to catch on.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I've heard the same things of both sides.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: Is it is it satanic?
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: Is it you know, does it matter?
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: But I've just found so much benefit from knowing my wife and I, it has really impacted our relationship and with our kids and uh pretty much anybody just to be able to explore from that filter.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's been a it's been a really positive thing.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_03: So oh, yeah, absolutely.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_03: And that's where I actually sit, I sit every once in a while and I ponder what does it look like to take the Enneagram out of my life?
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_03: And obviously, um I would never get rid of Jesus.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_03: Like first and foremost, he is the center.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_03: I'm never gonna even try to picture a world without him because I don't want it.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but the Enneagram, I can go, oh yeah, I could, I could walk away from this.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_03: But then I'm like, at least I would walk away with the benefits because now I understand my kids, like you talked about marriage.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_03: It has been so helpful.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_03: And how about for you guys?
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_03: How long have you been married?
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_03: Do you know what types you lead as?
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_03: And what what's like maybe one thing that you're like, oh, now we don't fight about this thing as much, whatever that is.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think we've been married 44 years, and congratulations! Thanks.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: We're we've signed up for a few more, so we're good.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: Good way to go.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think once I learned about it first, and then uh we read a couple books together, and it has just impacted the way we we see each other.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's like now it explains certain things, and in our family to be able to do that.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like I present as a nine with a little one wing, and so I want to make everybody happy, and my wife is a one with a strong two wing.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: So putting those together, um, she I'm the one that will come up with the ideas of what creative things we could do in a thousand different directions, and she's the one that will pick the one and decide how to get there.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: So I love it.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, my wife, her favorite song before we got married was that old song, uh, Don't Fall in Love with a Dreamer.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: And she said that's what she was afraid of because she has never been a big dreamer per se.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: And she figured because her dad, I don't know what number he is, he's 90 years old, but he's uh but he has always been the person that came up with an idea about once a year, and he would go do it within minutes, and so it's just like that's what you do.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: And my wife has strong tendencies that way, and yes, um, and as a one, just the things that that make her stay on top of things and where she goes with it, and then I would come up with you know 13 ideas every day, and she was afraid I was gonna do them all, and then she realized I did nothing, I just dreamed, and so so it was quite a combination bringing those together.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_03: So oh, I bet that's so funny.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_03: And ones, man, there are some ones out there, they are such go-getters, they they just know how to get things done.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_03: I think in particular, the one wing two is pretty gifted in that arena, which is great.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_03: I really like working with one wing twos.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I well, I think what I think what's been so valuable is to be able to recognize that's just who she is, and that's just who I am.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: Enneagram or not has helped us narrow it down and say, okay, um, it's not that he's different than me, she's different than me, and I need to fix her.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: And she needs to fix me.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: And uh and I know a lot of the different numbers think that the other numbers should be healed.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: And right.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: And to bring it to you, my my my daughter is a four.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: She's very artistic.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: She she has to be it has to be unique.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: And my son-in-law, her husband, is a seven.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think he has any other numbers connected to him.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: He's just pure seven.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: He's just pure seven.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he'll go out and he'll go to a hockey game and come back, and then at 10 o'clock at night, he'll call friends just so he can have somebody to talk to.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: And my daughter's in bed by eight.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's awesome.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: The dynamics of realizing that's just who they are.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's how they're wired, it's how God created them.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, then there's certain things I shouldn't try to change.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's like we learn how to live and work together because we gain so much respect for the other person that way.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, for sure.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_03: I have said I've done a couple of marriage conference-esque type things on this, and I mostly speak to moms.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_03: And a lot of times it's coming to grips with not only your own personality, but then those that you're interacting with on the regular, that it's not about tolerating the differences.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_03: It's learning to celebrate them.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_03: And especially think as moms nurturing our kids, learning to be able to go, oh, they're wired so differently than me.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_03: And it's not my job to fix them.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_03: It's my role to help them thrive and be the best version as God intended.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_03: And then um, and just applaud that, oh, it's good you're different than me, and not expect the many means means that I think sometimes us moms get in the habit of doing.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and and dads, I think there's a tendency both ways in there.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: So for sure.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: Even looking at my my oldest granddaughter is 16.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, when she used to come over to uh our house when she was little, she had her little suitcase, little toddler, and she had a little suitcase, and she would walk in the front door, she wouldn't even say hi to us, she would walk back to her room and unpack.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my goodness.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: She would lay out what she was going to wear each day in order on a little bench in the room, put everything away, close the suitcase, put it under the bed.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: Then she'd come out and say hi.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: And now she's 16.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: And what was interesting for us is we saw so much of that, and we've always talked about how organized she is and how disciplined and how focused and those kind of things, but she changes over time.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: She's not as much that way, but we see the tendencies and they play out in a whole different way.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: So for us, we had to learn to not just assume almost like with the Enneagram, there's that risk of saying, well, that person to say, I know, not to present as, but we say they are a four.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: And then it's like now I look at them and all I see, I know they're a four, and if they do anything else, well, they're doing it because of this.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: But to realize that there's a lot more to people than just the labels we put on them.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: We've got to be careful not to recognize that we're growing, we're changing, and God does stuff in our lives.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm a different person.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, I think I'm a different person today than I was yesterday, because I had a conversation yesterday, or I had an encounter, or I read something, and so I don't see it.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's so gradual.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: But um, I think we're a different person every day, and we need to assume that the people we live with and our kids, especially, they're different today than they were because they've had those kind of encounters and God's shaping them.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's like you look at somebody else's kids you haven't seen for a while, and they're totally different, just in the presentation.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: We don't see it with our own kids.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's like they they're slowly, yeah.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_03: So and the the slight um metamorphosis that is happening in them, especially in these like the zero to 18 years that really are dramatic.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I think I think that's so powerful.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_03: And I I love because I I usually try I frame it as like we are a child of God, we're not a type, we're talking about how we lead in life and really the lens that we're looking through.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_03: That's that's the biggest thing of the insight of going, oh, this is why my kid is looking at my discipline this way.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_03: They're feeling like I'm limiting them or I'm challenging them and you know, I'm exposing their vulnerabilities or whatever, I'm disrupting their peace, right?
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_03: All the different things that really help us go, okay.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_03: I can put it's like walking in someone else's shoes.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_03: I think the Enneagram helps us be able to put other people's lenses on so we can get for a minute their perspective.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_03: And while we might might not totally um resonate with it, we can at least try to understand it and and come to commonality in a better way, which is so powerful, right?
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, it makes so much sense because then we can look at people the way they really are and observe not just what number do they present as, but who are they right now?
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: Because I mean, like they always say that when your child is six years old, that's pretty much the temperament they're gonna have, how they will be when they're 66 years old.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_03: It's like you I didn't realize that.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_03: Wow, yeah.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's like you can look at the basics of kind of how they operate, and it's like that's that's who you got.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: And then it changes, they become teenagers, which I remember the speaker Ken Poor.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you ever remember him, but he used to say that the teenagers he called it the pre-people stage where they're not quite human, but they're working on it.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like, okay, but that that little six-year-old is still that person, and they go through all the angst of trying to uh please everybody and wanting people to like them, and if they don't, and all the stuff it takes just to become an adult, and it's a it's a tough time, but it's but to realize it's the same person, and I need to study them all the time and just really look from their perspective, not how frustrated I can get with what's going on, but it's like what's happening inside their little heart and what's happening inside their head, and just to be there with them.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_03: So that's good.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_03: I like that.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, I have a couple of teenagers and then one um ready.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_03: We're just like a year away.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_03: And uh we've so I've been going through like, you know, how to raise teenagers kind of thing with a group of um other families.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_03: And it I think it's kind of an interesting thought to go, oh wait, in there is that six-year-old that was a little bit more delightful.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_03: And I need to remember and highlight those character qualities when all I see is the teenage trying to figure myself out.
• 13:26
  unknown: Yeah.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we we did the same thing.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, our kids, it's like you said, they're so delightful when they're little.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: You fall in love with them.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's on purpose.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: So that you fall so much in love with them when they become teenagers, just like, okay, I think I'd like to send you to Siberia, but I desperately love you.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's still there.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: And then when they leave home, you know, it's a it's a whole different uh issue.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: But I I think that's probably why it happens the way it does.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_03: You're right, you're right.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_03: That is true.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I I love it.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_03: I I love just getting to hear from you, your perspective as someone who has done well and graduated people and you know, fine human beings.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's encouraging to be reminded when we're on this side of things going, what have I done?
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_03: What am I doing?
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: We've always we've always told our kids if uh someday when they're in therapy, just call us, we'll come in and tell them what we did wrong, we'll save them a bunch of money because that's right.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, my kids are 39 and 41 right now, and they both have their own kids and their own families, and and they can uh both of my kids now form multi syllable words, they can walk upright, and and we have a real relationship.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: There is another side as happening.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: But they grow I thought, you know, we did that.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: We were crazy when we were yes, yes, we were and and we found our way.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: It was our journey, it wasn't our parents' journey, and yeah, so to be able to go that direction.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_03: So that's so good.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I I love that we've kind of you know touched here on the Enneagram, we've touched on raising, you know, kids and in in particular teenagers and and those of my mom friends who are listening.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_03: I know a lot of you have kids who are about to be six or who are about six.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_03: So remember what we're saying here.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_03: Um, just delight in that and you know, write down all the cute things they say because you'll want to have that later.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but one of the other things I I think is really important is this book here.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_03: It's the People Peace Pleasers Guide to Loving Others Without Losing Yourself.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_03: And as an Enneagram coach, and I'm a faith-based Enneagram coach.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_03: So what we're looking for is to help you thrive and overcome the emotional struggles that you face.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_03: And so for each of us, that looks different.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_03: And I happen to know that again and again, those who are coming through my coaching program or who do the one-on-one coaching with me, the boundaries issue is really, really big.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_03: And I would love to hear from you kind of what what propelled you to write down these words, to write down this guide.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_03: What happened in your life that you you go, okay, not only is this something that I have learned that I can need to continue to learn, but others need help with.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's a great question.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I've I've thought about that a lot because it wasn't just that this topic came up all of a sudden.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: It goes back.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: This is my sixth book, and the first one was the one that really was kind of a transition.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: I spent my entire life um, well, I'm an introvert and not shy, but an introvert, which means where you get your energy.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I've always been in conversations with an extrovert and always felt intimidated because I could never I could always think of the perfect answer for what they were asking about 10 minutes after they had left.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, and so to have that kind of a dynamic, and I remember it was when I was growing up, there was a lot of emphasis uh on evangelism and sharing your faith.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I went to conferences on how to do it effectively, but every one of them was designed for extroverts because they're the they're the ones noisy enough to say something, and it's like if if you want to please God, you need to stand on a corner back then and share your faith.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: And the more uncomfortable it is, the more you're doing real evangelism.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: And then, but something for years deep inside of me just thought, well, if I had if why didn't God make me noisier?
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: If that was the correct way to do it, I never heard an alternative.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: And that built up over time when I started thinking through and and just praying through the whole idea of is there another way?
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: Is there something else?
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: I almost felt like a like a turtle being taught how to soar with the eagles.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, well, that's uh I'd like to do it, but I need to be a really good turtle.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: And if God wanted me to soar, then why didn't He make me with feathers?
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: Why did it happen this way?
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so my first book I wrote came out of something that I just got to a point where I thought, this I've watched so many people almost be beaten down by the fact that um you have to do it.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's a guilt-based thing.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: You have to share your your faith.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_03: You're not a Christian if you don't, right?
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so I so I just had this burden, it's like there is another way, and I found out what that looked like.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so I wrote that first book.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's called Evangelist Evangelism for the rest of us.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I wrote it when I was 54 years old.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: That was my first thing that I had published.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: And and it was, I mean, for me, it was not just cathartic, but I started speaking around that topic, and I found people in their 70s and 80s that would just say, I had no idea this was possible.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I feel like I've got freedom that I never had my whole life because they just were under guilt.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not doing it right, or I'm not, so they would quit.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so that led to seeing that I had I've always wanted to write.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: I'd love writing, but I thought to be able to put that out and seeing the response and thought I can actually help people with it.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and so there's like that introvert theme came into this, the next book, which is about just how do you communicate with confidence?
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: And it was it was based on the same idea.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: And it's each book has kind of grown from there, uh, in terms of mostly around communication and and relationships.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: The most the the third book got the most traction.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: It was called People Can't Drive You Crazy If You Don't Give Them The Keys.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_03: And I love this title, like brilliant, it's so true.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because that's that's what that was my life.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, you know, I'm living for the approval of other people, and my self-esteem came out of if other people liked me, I was okay.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: If people didn't like me, I wasn't okay.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I would craft everything that I did and how I interacted so people would see me in a certain way.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I didn't even know this current book was coming out of that because that was several years later.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: And then to just be able to realize so many people uh struggle with the same thing that it's like I know we say, well, God loves us, and that is so true.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: And we need to, that's one of the healing parts of it of where you go with it.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: But still, it's like to see other people, we we have this need to just find our value somehow, and if we look to others for it, it's like we're looking in one of those fun house mirrors they used to have at carnivals where you look at it.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_03: I liked that illustration.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_03: I saw that in the book.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, this is good.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_03: I like this, this makes sense.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and I think it's just so real because it's like if it's not a true image, then I'm believing what the mirror says, and um so I'm building my worth on the wrong things.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: So if I can learn how to get my value, my worth from a genuine place on the inside, it frees me up because all the books I read on people pleasing when I was going to write this one, everything I read was about you've got to forget about other people and just please yourself, take care of you.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: There's memes, there's all kinds of stuff that says, just forget everybody else.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: Just it's you're the most important.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought, but I like people, I want to help people.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: So the transition, I think, and what I did in this book was just what I discovered that people pleasing is not a negative thing you have to get rid of.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's could be your superpower, it's your strength that God has given you if it's coming from the right place.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: Now I can serve others because I deeply care about it, including my kids.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: So it ties all the way around.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_03: No, it's so good.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_03: And I that's kind of the term I use a lot of times with the Enneagram, is that we have these superpowers, but for a while, especially when we are living with a more orphan mindset.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_03: And I consider the orphan mindset being how we view Father God, do we live as beloved and adopted, or do we live like we have to be an independent?
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: make it on our own, then then out of that, those what could be superpowers just our weaknesses that keep tripping us up and we keep getting triggered.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_03: And instead when we come to that adopted mindset, then we're like, oh no, I can I can love and serve people not to get something, but because I love to do it.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_03: And that in that process, then it's more symbiotic instead of just a with a constant withdrawal and a drain, which I know that a lot of people, a lot of my friends listening are going, yeah, so tell me, tell me more.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_03: Give me, give my friends some ways that they can begin to draw some healthier boundary lines and get to this point where they are loving people well, not at the cost and the expense of themselves.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_03: Because I know my friends don't like the self um the self-care mantra where it's like, you know, pull yourself up by the bootstraps and tell them what's what and do it in a way that's just so brash and not Christlike.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's the thing we want.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_03: We how does that look like as we want to live like Christ?
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: I think it that's such a good perspective because I go back to teenagers again and teenagers are wonderful people.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: They're just teenagers.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: They are growing and they're playing with something new.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: And when the kids our kids are little most of the time they adore us.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: Not always but they really like us.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: We get used to that.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: And suddenly they get to a stage where they may not express the fact that they like us or they may not feel it as much because there's that separation and the stuff that comes in there.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: And it's real easy for parents a lot of times I did the same thing where I want my kids to like me again.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so instead of being a parent I want to be a friend because that part feels good.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'll feel like a good parent if my kids um like me and respect me and if they behave in public because it reflects on on me as I go from there.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so thinking about what they could do, where they could go with it, um I mean several things come to mind.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: One of the biggest ones is comparison.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's where the boundaries fit in.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's so easy to look at Facebook and Instagram and see what everybody else is doing and see their vacation and their pictures.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: Nobody ever puts the snarky pictures on there of what's really what's really happening.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: I I I remember somebody put on Facebook they had a whole thing it was about 120 pictures I think for their Christmas photo.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: And wow every one of them they were about ready to kill each other and then there was this one picture that happened to and that's the one they put on their card.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: Because I always thought it would be good to do a Christmas letter like you send to your friends and say well you know we've had trouble with Johnny this year.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: His parole officer uh hasn't spent enough time with him and you know all this stuff it's right the real stuff.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: So we watched everybody else and say they're they're having a better life than me.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's good to either pull off of social media for a while and just see what's real to challenge our thoughts and uh and then to go back with it recognizing that we're seeing the highlights.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: We're not seeing what happens day by day.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so um that comparison thing one simple thing that I have done oh especially when I'm trying to sort through all that what's real what fits in with that is to write a letter from God to yourself.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: As though God were saying he was writing us a love letter here's what I think about you.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: And to go ahead and craft it through scripture or whatever but to say how does he really feel about me research and spend the time because it helps us see a perspective and say yeah but I don't feel that way about myself well if God says one thing and I feel something different somebody's wrong I'm guessing it's not God.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: So if so something as simple as crafting taking the time over a period of time and just what would God say to me if he could write me a a love letter I know the Bible's a love letter but a real one that just says here's how why I adore you so much and what what I see.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: And then the other thing is to um to be able to challenge those negative thoughts when they come up and simply narrow it down, maybe even write it down here's what I'm feeling and thinking about myself.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: Secondly is it true?
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_01: Because we don't we tend to believe all those crazy things that come into our head and it's we need to challenge them.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's a that's another boundary that we can set.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah and I think if we make it a practice to write it down we know as soon as we write it or even if we're thinking about I should probably write this down we know what we know what we're gonna say about it.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_03: We're gonna know we're we probably don't even want to like look at the ugliness of it when we write it down and go, oh of course that's not true.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_03: That's a lie from the pit of hell and I need to get rid of that.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: Well you know and that's what I think that's the the value of writing it down is because we tend to go from thought to thought to thought and it yes spirals.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: And if I write it down I have I'm forced to slow down and then process.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: I probably won't process if I'm just thinking and building on top of that.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I love your idea to take the time to just write the thoughts down so that they're um they're in front of us.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah and I like to call that the shining the light on something if because it sometimes gets dark in our mind but when we can bring it out into the light on a piece of paper and maybe it's to a friend as well I know there's lots of power in in being honest or with your spouse you know someone who can give good counsel and who has a healthy perspective to go now come on.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: Well you know what's what's so good about that is if I open the door to my basement and shine a light in there, all the cockroaches run away.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: They don't like light.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like those kind of thoughts sometimes the cockroaches are working in the dark and they're so true they're multiplying and taking over but just open the door shine truth on them and they don't stick around.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_03: So that's a great example you gave amen yeah well you're you're gonna laugh is just um this week I shared a podcast and I had this analogy after taking the dog on a walk and needing to shine a light to pick up her pile um I was like oh yeah this is what the Enneagram does it shines a light on the piles that we need to clean up.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_03: I I haven't seen a book with that as the cover but no no I don't think that's gonna fly over you know really well but I thought would make for a good chuckle for most of us moms who that's life.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_03: That's life uh well this has been delightful I I can tell already that you know I love how um I get so many books across my desk I feel so uh blessed to get to be able to have that and have the opportunity to look at a lot of things out there and I I think it's really um just so amazing that I'll get these books and then I'm like wow this is so good.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_03: Where has this author been?
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_03: And then you know I read it and then you said it like you this is your sixth book like this isn't your first you know rodeo here.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_03: Uh you've got a lot of wisdom to offer people in your writing and I think that you know it it sounds like maybe one of your your first um uh calls in life was being a teacher and an educator and it it just really I feel that thread as you've written the book in a way that um will just help us better understand ourselves and the Lord and other people better.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate that.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: Such a privilege to be with you today so absolutely thank you.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_03: Well friends I hope you enjoyed that conversation as much as I did.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_03: If you did would you give a shout out on the socials about this episode you can just take a little picture or you can push the arrow button if you're using Spotify to share it with all your friends.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_03: But then be sure to tag Simply Wholehearted which is me and my Bechtel our guest today on Instagram or Facebook so we can give you a proper thank you.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_03: And in case you didn't notice I now have a special Monday episode for all my mom and want to be mom friends.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_03: The first two of this new series are now live.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_03: I hope that you've heard them now remember you are the mom your kids need.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_03: Continue to pursue perspective purpose and plans for the whole hearted life you desire