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The Muster- AJ Aitken: The Future Of Provincial Rugby Is Uncertain · The Muster on Hokonui

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da.
• 0:04
  Speaker 2: Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: One of the all-time great intros on a song there,
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: Save a Horse, Ride a Cowboy by Big and Rich.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: You're listening to the muster on Hakanui. AJ Aitken catches
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: up next, of course. He won the Galbraith Shield earlier
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: on in the rugby season with the Eastern Northern Barbarians. Currently,
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: he's coaching Southland Development. and they had a massive win
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: over Canterbury B at the weekend. And he's catching up
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: just to give us a bit of an insight or
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: an understanding of what the depth actually is like in
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: Southland rugby. I mean, effectively, you hear about us running
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: on the smell of a noily rag. AJ's going to
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: give us a bit of an update. Good afternoon. How
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: are you?
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: Afternoon, Andy. Good afternoon, everybody. Yep, no, not bad now.
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: Sun's out now. So, yeah, not too bad at all.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: Well, your heart would have been warmed up last weekend
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: knocking over Canterbury.
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: Oh, well, it's, yeah, obviously we were delighted with the result.
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: You always go into those games or any game thinking
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: that you're going to be able to get the job
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: done and you prepare the whole week around, I guess,
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: the climax of winning the game of rugby. We don't
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: go into any week and think that we're going to
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: come second. But, yeah, we worked really hard. The boys
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: worked really hard through that game and through the first
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: punch and just managed to, sort of withholding defence was
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: outstanding and I don't know when the last time a
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: development team knocked over a Canterbury development team which was
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: a very classy outfit we were up against so yeah,
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: huge scout for our boys and they thoroughly deserved it.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: With the stags, you don't have a situation there, a
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: lot of players brought in this year, a lot of
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: people crying out to use local talent AJ, have we
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: got the local talent to justify a stag selection perhaps?
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: Well, I think I think you've got to be realistic, Andy.
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  Speaker 2: If we want to compete in the current model of MPC,
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: we've got to have the calibre of player. If you
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: look at our current club competitions that we've got in Southland,
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: can anyone honestly say that we've got enough high-quality players
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: to be playing that level? Some of them definitely can,
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: but there's a lot that probably aren't at that level.
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: Can we develop them into MPC players? We sure can.
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: but that takes time, and it's not in everybody's wheelhouse too.
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: So for us to compete, we have to have those
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: level of players, and I think, like Scott has said
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: in prior interviews, even on the show, we're only bringing,
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: the Stags are only mainly bringing in guys that are
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: super rugby quality, so it's not like we're bringing in
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: guys to take a Woody Kirkwood's place or a Gregor
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: Rutledge's place or a Jimmy Taylor's place. They're all homegrown
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: guys that have come through the system and are able
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: to apply their trade at a reasonable level because we're
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: able to bring in those super rugby players.
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: Because you would have heard this chat as well, AJ,
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: a lot of talk out there about if we're going
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: to get the results and unfortunately we're on the losing
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: end more often than not, then why not try and
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: blood local players and give them a run?
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: Well, I think if you actually look at the guys
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: that we are blooding, though, mate, like with our academy
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: guys and stuff like that, we actually are blooding a
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: lot of guys, but the reality is we just don't
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: have the population base to do it when you compare
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: us to a lot of these other unions. But on
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: the flip side of that, you know, last weekend... for
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: our development team and for that famous one, like Friday
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: night at 7.30, we had to go and scramble to
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: find two players because we had that spewing bug go
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: through and then there's, or the neuroviral, whatever it's called,
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: and guys were dropping like flies. So, you know, look
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: at Ryan Davis, for example. I called him at 7.30
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: on Friday night and he was having a few beers
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  Speaker 2: and I said, how would you like to how would
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: you like to play for the Southland development team tomorrow?
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: And he jumped at the chance. So there is lots
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: of opportunities for our homegrown guys, but we have to
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: be realistic about the level that we are playing.
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: Is that just a reflection of the Southland club competition, AJ,
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  Speaker 1: as to where it's at?
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  Speaker 2: Well, I think if you really do, if we want
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: to be completely honest about the level of club rugby,
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: I think it's probably... it's probably deteriorated a little bit
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  Speaker 2: in the last maybe 10 years. And I think that's
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: primarily around numbers as well. Okay, look, let's use the Barbarians,
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: for example. Everyone will say, oh, you guys had an
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: amazing year and, you know, you had an amazing team
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: and this, that and the next thing. But what people
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: don't understand is that there was lots of weeks where
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: I'd be on the phone trying to get a team.
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: We were leaning on the Albions and the Pioneers and
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: the Vikings and Plokanui, all those clubs, they chip in
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: and help us get through those early parts of the year.
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: And we try and return the favour where we can. But,
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: you know, everybody's struggling. All the clubs are struggling to
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: build teams nowadays, Andy, and that's a big reflection on
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: the amount of players that are actually playing the game.
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: Now, regarding these proposed changes to the MPC, like supercharging
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: Super Rugby almost, but leaving Australia out of it, I think, like,
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: so Hawke's Bay, maybe the Knacky, someone like that, Tasman
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  Speaker 1: comes into the equation. Southland will be left out in
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: the cold, though. So, once again, everything's up in the air.
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and, you know, if you look at the players
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: that are coming through now and playing EPC that have
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: come out of, like, that Southland boys system, the Mika Mullineys,
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: the Jimmy and I keep repeating, the Jack Taylors, the Withies,
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: the Woody Kirkwoods, they're all homegrown guys. Like, if we
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: don't have a team playing in that top tier... where
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: are those players that have aspirations to play professional rugby,
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: where are they going to go? Are they going to
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: stay in an environment where they don't get paid? I
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: don't know. Maybe they won't. I mean, it's all up
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: in the air what it'll be structured like. But a
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: lot of the good work that's been done over the
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: last 10 years by our academy managers and guys that
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: have got us to the point we are now, it
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: could be very quickly unraveled by a sweeping change. But
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: at the end of the day, like NZR, They're not
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: going to let these competitions keep running if they're not
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: making money. So, unfortunately, it's run as a business nowadays,
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: and if it doesn't make money, well, then it could
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: be on the chopping board.
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: We've seen changes mooted in the past. I think it
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: might have been in the mid-2000s. It was proposed that
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: Tasman and possibly Manawatu were on the chopping block, but
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: there was massive protests and backlash, and the NZR went
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: back to the original model. I suppose that's it, though.
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: If you're hemorrhaging money, AJ, you've got to make a
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: profit somewhere aligned, and we all know the figures regarding
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: the NZR. But, I mean, is that provincial rugby's fault?
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I don't know. It could be argued
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: that it's not. I mean, look at Rugby South. They
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: made a profit this year, in the last financial year.
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: So that's well and good. But, you know, if we're
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: not playing against Otago and Stag Day, are we going
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: to get 10,000 people at Rugby Park to come watch it?
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: I don't know. Maybe we won't. So it's no secret,
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: since we've been having those days, our books have looked
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: a lot better. So, I mean, I don't know what
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: the answer is, mate, but... I think it would be
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  Speaker 2: bad for our probably declining rugby base in Southland if
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: that model was to be adopted.
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: Just finally, the Galbraith Shield, are you looking after it?
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: Who's got the responsibility?
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: Oh, I know Brett Howden's trying to get it over
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: to him. He's got a wee shrine over at home
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: with pretty much every piece of silverware that are that
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: exists in either east and south.
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: Well, he's probably got a wee bit there too, to
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: be fair.
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's always hard when you're trying to track something down.
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: So I know he's trying to get it, but I
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: actually think it might be at One Chef Kitchen now.
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: So our plan with it was we wanted to, you know,
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: we didn't want it to be sitting in one place
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: for the summer. So we're going to spread it around
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: the businesses and the people that support us around east
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: and the northern. So, yeah, look out for it. You'll
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: see it around the place. So, yeah, good to get
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: it out and about because, as we all know, we
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: We don't have it very often.
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I know a certain radio station in Gord that
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: wouldn't mind it for a week or two, mate.
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: It'll be coming, mate. We'll get it up there.
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: Nah, good, mate. Good on you, AJ. Thanks for your time.
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: Thanks, Andy.
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: Laugh out loud with Ag Proud, because life on the
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: land can be a laughing matter. Brought to us by
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: Shearwell Data, working to help the livestock farmer. When I
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: was a child, my father cheated on my mum. Later,
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: my parents divorced. Soon after, my mother died in a
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: car accident. My brother and I could only live in
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: my grandmother's old house. Grandma's sister was an alcoholic. The
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: whole family lived in my grandma's savings, and Grandma recently
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: passed away. My Uncle Andy is barely keeping himself out
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: of jail from day to day. My brother left home
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: and won't talk to us anymore. Dad's now in his 70s,
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: but he's had to go out and work to support
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: the family, and eventually he's going to want me to
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: do the same thing. What am I supposed to do?
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: Yours sincerely, Prince William. That's us over in Dunlith. The
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: podcast will be up shortly. I'm Andy Muir. The Muster
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: is brought to you by Peters Genetics. Catch you tomorrow
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: at 1 o'clock.