Latest / OneLegUpAlex Media / One Leg Up With RedLeg Innovation's Own Doug Katz Powered By Podmatch 4-3-25

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One Leg Up With RedLeg Innovation's Own Doug Katz Powered By Podmatch 4-3-25 · OneLegUpAlex Media

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Here's your host, Alex Garret.
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: All right, well the stars have aligned finally because I've
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: got my next guest on and we've been going back
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: and both on pod Match for quite a while.
• 0:13
  Speaker 3: Yes, it's a interview.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: Fast six months.
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Doug Katz, thanks for joining my podcast today.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: No, thank you for having me. This is when I've
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: really really wanted to be on because I really like
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: the disability focused stuff. There's got to be more, you know,
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: awareness for people like me and and awareness on the
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: on the side of where a tool like mine can
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: you can provide benefits. So thank you for the opportunity.
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: We'll get into what you.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: Created the new lue, but tell us your story and
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: why you had to design an adaptive kitchen tool and
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: uh and and how many lives it's helped in the
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: kitchen and how many cooks it's helped.
• 0:48
  Speaker 3: I guess I should say.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: So never really started out to be an inventor. I
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: have got a military background. I went to the Military
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: Academy West Point, so I had an engineering background, sort
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: of did my time in the military, and then got
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: out wented a corporate America. Didn't really think much much
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: of you know, Hey, I'm gonna go invent something. But
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: I did have upper extremity and other issues that the
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: military and other other you know decisions had gifted me,
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: I guess, and was at a point, you know what,
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: two three years ago where those issues started to get
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: a little bit more pronounced and prominent. Uh. And I'm
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: still a hobbyist knife maker. I'm a hobbyist culinary enthusiast.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: And let's see about two years ago, It'll be two
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: years in November, I think I got my shoulder rebuilt,
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: and right before that, I was in a lot of pain.
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: I could not do a lot of what I wanted
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: to do. The surgery has helped, but I still have
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: of my issues, especially some grip and osteoarthritis issues, and
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: I was really frustrated. So I was fortunate enough to
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: have a moment of real innovation. And I was out
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: in my shop and I saw some shapes, right Like,
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: I keep a lot of junk steal around because I
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: sometimes like to play with stuff and I use good steal.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: And I had a circular saw blade sitting around and
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: I had made some stuff with it that were reminiscent
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: of the Ulu, which is a into it knife that
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: you know is popular with people go on cruises or
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: get stationed there in the military because it's so good.
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: And I had played with that a little bit, but
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: I'm like, it could be better than it is if
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: deliberately designed, and that is what created the Nulu, and
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: the Nulu is the new Ulu, right, That's where the
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: name comes from, in that we reverse engineered some of
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: what makes an ulu a good tool and that's been
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: around for thousands of years and figure out how to
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: bring some design to make it an even better product.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: So I hope that answered the question.
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: It did, and of course as an inventor, I have
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: to ask you now, is this patented or have you
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: been working.
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: On We're patent pending. The patent just got published, is
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: what it's called. So what happens with the patent. There's
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: two kinds. There's design and utility. We've applied for both,
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: and you know, design is pretty obvious, right, it's the shape,
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: it's the dimensions, it's things like that. Utility is a
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: little bit of a different story. It takes a long time.
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: We applied over a year ago and we just got
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: notification that's published, which means they put it out there
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: for people. If they are contesting it or whatever. I
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: guess they get they have an ability to do so
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: because they know that it's out there and we're hoping
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: to hear, you know, sometime in twenty twenty five. I
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: don't know if you know. The cuts in the government
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: are impacting the PTO and that could affect us. But
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: so we are patent pending, which in a current in
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: a current status is sort of good enough, right, because
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: it's sort of an assumption of how.
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: Much reads are drawing into this, Because I'm looking at
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: the Kickstarter website about this and it says traditional.
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: Knives are not made to work in harmony with the
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: human body.
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: So obviously you had experience with with knives and with
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: cutting and whatnot.
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: So how did you come to this realization? Oh my god,
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: it's funny.
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: It's it was a cart before the horse. The knife
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: came about just me goofing off, and it was I
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: brought it to an event, and that's when I picked
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: up one of my other partners who I'd known for
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: a long time. I just forgot that he was a
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: like industrial design guy and he worked in the toy industry.
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: So he and I kind of started down the path
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: and have picked up the other partners along the way.
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: But there was a point in the development cycle where
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: we're like, okay, it works. We don't have data, so
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: let's just figure out why it works. And there's a
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: term that we're using in our design that we've coined
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: called force transfer geometry. And what happened was we looked
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: back and we said, wait a minute, it works, but
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: why does it work? And that allowed us to say, okay,
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: it ended up being a geometrical thing, right, like a
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: regular knife is tip, blade, handguard, bolster area and then handle.
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: It's linear. It doesn't do what it it It doesn't
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: do what it needs to do in a manner that
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: would be the right way to do it to get
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: maximum efficiency, safety and everything else. So our research, a
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: lot of it was more from the design perspective of
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: why did an ulu work and what we really happened upon,
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: and I guess in understanding that why did ours work better?
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: And what we happened upon was geometry. And my kids
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: hated it during that time because one of them was
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: going through geometry and I was able to say, hey,
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: here's why geometry is important. But what we figured out
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: is when you apply a circular geometry as opposed to
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: a linear geometry. The linear was what I described tip blade,
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: handguard handle. You're having to transfer force through kind of
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: a seesaw, right like you're you're holding it and the
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: blade is on the same plane with your knuckles. So
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: no matter what you do, you're cutting, you're gonna have
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: to saw. You're gonna have to find ways to make
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: that blade do what it's supposed to do.
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: With our uh cibilion, that looks a bit like a seesaw,
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: now the way you've engineered this so.
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, no, that that's more of a rocker. So
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: like if you were holding a regular knife and you
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: were trying to cut something, you would either have to
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: like move the knife blade up and down in a
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: manner that would allow the blade to engage what you're cutting,
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: but it's not efficient. So with all ours, you can
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: use it as a rocker, which is a little bit
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: of different than the seesaw because it's going to take
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: advantage of that curved blade. But what we found out
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: was that this circular force transfer geometry and design takes
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: the control area the handle and puts it above the
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: blade the cutting area, which is where it belongs because
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: you don't. Anytime you're transferring for us, you're gonna have
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: some loss, and you're also gonna end up with issues
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: that affect upper extremity problems. Right, you don't have the strength, grip, dexterity,
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: all those things. Sure, If you don't have those, then
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: then a regular knife isn't just inconvenient, it can be
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: impossible to use.
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: Now, I'm guessing you you found this out because you yourself
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: had recovering were recovering from a surgery. If I'm not
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: mistaken and totally you realize you couldn't cut with the
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: regular knife, am I?
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: You are? And but what was interesting was when we
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: figured out that the circular geometry allows for the where
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: you're hand, where you're engaging it. Think of the center
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: of a circle, and because your hand is above the
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: cutting area, you can think of our cutting surface as
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: an arc along a circle. What that does is when
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: you are engaging it, the cutting the cutting force transfer
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: is a direct vector from your body to the blade.
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: That is where the real change happens. Right, Because it
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: brings a couple of things. It brings efficient cutting, it
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: brings safety. I was doing a podcast earlier this morning
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: with a vision impaired chef. We're finding all kinds of
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: things that the efficiency and the control impactable way, broad
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: Way broader group.
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: I feel like people with CP could really benefit from
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: in the disabler community from this because obviously their hands
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: are not always you know, the radiuses what do you
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: call them, the radial narrow one of these? Oh no,
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: we'll we'll turn all one hundred degrees. So sometimes you
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: need assistance. Have you found in the CP community you
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: can really help help these folks out.
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: The interesting thing is what we what we did is
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: the other challenge that we had because we're going to
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: eventually have to look for funding. And the problem is
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: when people think of the disabled market, they think of
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: it in terms of condition, not symptom. Right, people will
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: talk about amputees, vision impaired, Parkinson's, whatever the issue is.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: They talk about the the issue all oftentimes and not
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: the the the symptoms. So what we did is we said,
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: and this is where blindness is an outlier. So that's
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: why that was an interesting conversation today. But if you
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: just look at strength, dexterity, coordination, all that kind of stuff,
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: there is a confluence of symptomatic manifestations, manifestations around grip, coordination, dexterity,
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: all of that, and it doesn't are necessarily how you
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: got there, but if there's a similar manifestation of those symptoms,
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: then this will help in any way. So what we
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: have found is anybody from oste arthritis to a tremor
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: based condition to you know, like me, Like I can
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: lift weights, but but I can't do certain certain very
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: very detailed work, right, Like I have more issues with
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: like my elbow now in my hand, but they're not
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: It's not like a It's not like my knees right,
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: My knees hurt because it's a weight bearing question. My
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: joints is hurt because I'm all beat up, but so
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: but my issue would be very similar to somebody who
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: may even be just having to do off hand cutting.
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: Right Like when I hurt my shoulder, I went from
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: one problem to another, right, I went from having all
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: the pain and I was in recovery, but I'm not.
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: I wasn't. I wouldn't do anything for the first couple
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: of months. Well just went off hand and my left
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: hand is not my primary hand, but I was able
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: to use it effectively because I could overcome the delta
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: that I had strength, dexterity and coordination in that offhand.
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: Well, let me let me let me ask you this.
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: You're a military guy, so you obviously you were very strong.
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: You're a lot of ability. How did you get what
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: led you to the surgery? And then did that force
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: you out of the military? Did?
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: That's a great question. It was really wear and tear.
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: So when I went to my ortho, their commentary was
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: basically like it, it was just a life of doing
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: stuff that that creates wearing terror. So with my shoulder,
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: the issue became that eventually the I had some bone
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: spurs and things from recent from from past injuries, and
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: that basically saw it through all the soft tissues, so
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: my my rotator cuff, my laborum, my bicep, they had
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: to do everything. But that that was you know, it's
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: it's sort of what is it what they talk about bankruptcy,
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: where it happens really really slow and then all at once.
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: That's kind of what I ran into, right, because then
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: issues become comorbidities and not just issues. So for me,
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: it was a steady decline of ability that took me
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: down the road of saying there's a better way to
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: do this stuff as opposed.
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: To you might have got emotional about it, right, You
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: might have felt a lot of feelings about losing that
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: ability because here you are able to do so much
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: stuff pre surgery.
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: But would you say that creating this tool helped you
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: find a purpose for what you were going you know, find.
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, you know. I think I didn't
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: set out to say, hey, I really want to change
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: how people think of adaptive cutlery or you know. The
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: interesting thing for us is, you know how how you
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: can cometimes sometimes become really circular, and how you approach stuff.
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: So it was eventually a wait a minute, this worked
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: really well for me. I can change how people view
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: cutting and how people who have limitations can enjoy culinary
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: creativity and everything that comes with that and and have
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: a nutrition. But what we're also finding is if you
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: were to look, let's say at the approach that we
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: take to how an adaptive tool applies, well, when you
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: take away the condition and you look at the issue, Now,
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: what would not normally be considered disabilities can fit under
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: a model that we created, which is called the ability curve.
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: And what it is is it takes an approach of
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: kind of what I had been saying earlier, the manifestation
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: of the symptoms, and how does that impact the ability
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: to do a task? Now if you were to take it,
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: you know, purely on the level of here's the task,
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: here's how you do it, and can you do it
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: without any type of assistance or adaption. A child actually
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: lacks the strength, coordination, and dexterity to potentially use a
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: traditional knife. So in a way, you can be naturally
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: disabled just because you haven't grown in fully to your
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: your capabilities or age age are pro right, you could
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: age out of being able bodied. I guess I hate
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: that term, but as you as you weaken, right, there's
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: it's a curve. And that's why we approach it as
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: such because the way we at Knew like to think
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: about things is, you know, disabilities waiting for all of us, right,
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: we're all going to age into it.
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: And you're so right.
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: I feel like people end up in a wheelchair almost
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: every minute of the day. Like someone's ending up disabled
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: right now. You know, there is that reality people face.
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: And people fight it instead of adapting a lot lot
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: of times. So where we are trying to kind of
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: take that dialogue is adaptive design is actually good design,
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: right if it's good for somebody. Let's say who who
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: you know we were talking before the show. Let's say
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: somebody has an injury that results in an amputation, and
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: as a result, then they have to use their offhand.
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: They that that will enable them to do things that
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: they wouldn't ever been able to do before. But that
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: doesn't mean that that benefit ends at the person who
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: has to relearn what they're doing or overcome paign or
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: other things. It is better for anybody, So you know
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: it's going to be, you know, a typical product acceptance
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: kind of life cycle that you see. But we're pretty confident,
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: and again this is where the monkey rents, right, So
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: we we were like all like, hey, this is this
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: really lends us up well as an adaptive product, and
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: that's where we should plant our flag and really work
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: to grow our credibility and our footprint in that world.
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: But then you get non disabled people who go, well,
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: it's a really cool knife, But when you call it adaptive,
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: I don't even really think that I can you right, Like,
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: there's this weird bias against it. So in the big picture,
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: we're kind of hoping that we redefine knife use and
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: knife design in general in a way that everybody looks
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: and says, oh, you know what, we both get benefits
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: of this. So it's a better cutting experience and I
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: want to be more engaged in my diet and as
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: a result, it's the right choice as opposed to you know,
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: I had someone tell me at one point, I want
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: to look like a chef, and this doesn't make me
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: look like I feel like I look like a chef.
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: And I'm thinking to myself, you look like a chef
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: when you bring on an amazing meal, right, You look
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: like a chef when you can share the roots of
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: your creativity and your effort with other people and enjoy that.
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: It's not about a performative aspect of saying, oh, I'm
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: going to show that I know knife use. And the
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: crazy thing about it and this is this is something
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: that I haven't really heard in the disabled community. But
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: what's really interesting is knife technique and the fact that
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: there's knife technique any of it's kind of crazy. Knife
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: technique is heavily rooted in changing your body to be
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: able to use the knife. Well, that makes no sense
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: name a tool that is designed around you having to
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: change how you're engaging it, or maybe not at all
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: if you have limitations versus something that that melds with
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: you in a way that is an extension of your body.
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: So that's where we're trying to get to is to say, hey,
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: go ahead and buy your beautiful Like I was at
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: a knife show this weekend, eight hundred dollars chef's knives,
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: right like expensive knives. But you're still it doesn't matter
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: what the metal is, it doesn't matter what the handle's
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: made out of. Maybe it can hold an edge a
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: little better, it'll give you a little benefit there. But
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: a traditional knife design just has its limitations for use.
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: The way we're you the way that we're looking where
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: like Nulu shines, is in the kitchen. Now, if you're
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: going out in the woods and you're doing field craft,
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: having a point on the end of a knife a
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: tip makes sense because you may have to use it
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: in that capacity. In the kitchen, there's no point to
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: having a point, right, you don't you're not stabbing anything
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: except yourself by accidentally. So that's where we're really trying
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: to redefine that.
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: And you know what Ralph Kramton thought, He was the
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: chef of the future. I think Doug Kat's is.
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: The chef for the future with this love, I love it,
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: I love it.
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: Now let me let me just say, if you love America,
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: if you love our veterans, Doug Kats is not only
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: a veteran himself, He's actually employed other veterans to help
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: him in this mission.
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: Am I right?
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: I am well. I built a team around I'll tell you,
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: you know, the people that no vetterterans know why veterans
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: are in demand, and so a good bit of my team.
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: And what's interesting is we've also really kind of and
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: it really was it was sort of plan, not planned,
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: but we've ended up with a little bit of an
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: older management team. I'm fifty four. Most of my management
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: team are older than me. Some are a little younger.
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: But as kind of entering that scene, you know, when
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: you can get what's the ARP magazine right, you're kind
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: officially in that world. But they understand the product better
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: and there's patients of doing things right. So the age
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: has helped. But with the military man you just put
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: them in the right direction, they get things done. And
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: we are very much leaning into the military space. There
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: are a lot of military guys who come out with
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: everything from you know, nerve damage, amputations, other things that
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: were the result of their service. So we are trying
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: to both get into being able to help them live
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: independent lives, but also where we can work with them.
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: Like for a Kickstarter, our cutting boards were made by
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: a veteran. We're trying as much as we can to
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: uplift that community as well as the disabled communities.
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: That we work as well and Boil Boy, the veterans
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: need a lot of uplift because I feel like when
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: they come home, they don't always feel loved when they
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: come home, and I feel like you're saying, no, there
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: is a place for you in the workforce when you
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: get back, right.
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: You know the weird thing now, right, I'm involved in
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: a nonprofit that does Honor Flight as an example, and
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: Honor Flight's an amazing thing, and you really get to
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: deal with older veterans. And I've dealt with a lot
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: of Vietnam veterans, and I will say the Vietnam veterans,
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: we're welcomed home or not welcomed home that way, right,
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: So when you see a Vietnam veteran, at least our
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: organization says welcome home because you never got that welcome
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: home before, and that resonates with them, the young veterans
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: that we have. Now, it's not the same right because
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: everybody thanks them for their service, everybody holds them in
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: high esteem. There's discounts everywhere. There's a lot of things
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: that play into.
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: Well, let me repraise that they are definitely welcome home
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: by the communities, but when it comes to governmental health,
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: they don't get that as much.
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: That's I guess what I'm trying to say.
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: I've actually, I believe I've had great vacare and things
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: like that. I'll tell you where the problem is. It's
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: it's reaching out to these guys, right, these young men
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: and women have some of the same challenges that non
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: military ones do in terms of engagement, face to face,
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: you know, experience with others. Like it's just a different
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: time now. Places like the VFW and the American Legion
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: we've used to be gathering places for veterans to give
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: support to one another or an aging population. So these
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: younger guys now, you know, I really look and say,
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: what they need is opportunity. They need, you know, and
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: opportunities that maybe are not nonstandard. Many of them, because
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: of the degree that they were deployed, cannot be employed
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: in traditional settings. It's just not where they resonate. So
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: that's the kind of thing, right like actively hiring veterans.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: And frankly, some of the changes that are occurring now
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: with like DEI and whatever like I. Everybody has opinions
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: on it, and this isn't I'm not taking political stance,
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: but a large number of veterans and veteran owned businesses
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: we're benefiting from the type of things that that was
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: trying to build out. So now you know, if that's
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: not out there, then we as a society have to
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: say that we are. We are going to be engaged,
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: not because we have to, because it's the right thing
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: to do. And we're going to not just say thank
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: you for your service, We're going to donate. I'll tell
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: you it's amazing how many times that we fundraise outside
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: of home depot and the same people will say thank
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: you for your service, will walk a very long route
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: around the donation table, you know, and and and for
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: us a dollar right like, we're trying to raise money
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: for this year's on our flight to take you know,
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: over one hundred veterans to Washington, d C. This is
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: where people need to match.
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: For another episode to talk about that alone, because that's
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: a really big effort you got going on there, and
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: I love to follow.
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it's so much fun. It's so much It
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: is amazing these guys, you know, these guys, uh, you know,
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: for some of them, it's the last trip they're going
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: to take. For others, it's the first time that they
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: got to see what they were in the swamps and
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: the deserts and wherever they were deployed. But I think
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: that's the big challenge right now. And there are some
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: great resources out there, but some of these guys are
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: so are so damaged, some of these men and women
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: that they they need a lot of help. And I
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: think that's where tend to fall short. And it's easy
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: to point a finger at the VA. I have found
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: the VA to be good if you know how to
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: I mean, you know, if you've dealt with and I'm
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: guessing with with your issues, you deal with bureaucracy to
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: get done what you need to get done. Bureaucracy is
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: part of anything. I don't care how much you cut
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: or whatever, just there's a bureaucracy to how things work.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: That's just you know, processing and a lot if you
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: could get through the bureaucracy, there's actually a lot of
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: really good resources. So a lot of times, you know,
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: and if any of your listeners are veterans, I have
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: been made as successful as I guess I am at
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: this point, we'll see how you know. We're confident that
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: this is going to be a great endeavor and a
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: great enterprise, but you never know. But to get here
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: to where I am now was heavily in the agency
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: of others who believed in what we were doing, made
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: introductions to us and things like that. And we have
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: to start getting better at giving agency to these veterans
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: so that they're taken care of. In in not only
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: just not only looking at the VA and saying take
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: care of it, it's every one of us saying, hey,
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: what can I do extra? Like how can I volunteer?
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: If you're if you are totally enraged right now, it's
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: with what's being done to vets. Are you on Facebook
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: or are you going down to a veterans organization like ours?
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: The Veterans Network Committee of Northern Illinois is ours, but
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: it's it's sure heard getting a lot of volunteers in
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: a room, but everybody says thank you for your service.
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: So I think we got a long way to do
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: that as a culture. But I think we're getting better, right,
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: I don't want to be I.
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: Agree with you there as a community, we're getting better.
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: But it is relieving to hear that you've had some
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: good v experience because that's been a nightmare too for some.
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: But Doug, I want to I want to point out
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: a couple of the things. First of all, you are
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: a steel cutter, like that is one of your trades.
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: So when did it click for you?
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: All Right, I'm going to use my love and passion
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: for steel cutting and do this.
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: I mean, when you know, I was always a hobbyist Nicemith,
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: so I was fortunate I was in the service type business.
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: I was a lender for twenty two years. But with
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: the nice stuff I just I was. My wife gave
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: me a class. She she hired me a class or
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: a scheduled class for me to do it because I
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: was really into fortune fire at that time, and she
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: had met a blacksmith on vacation, a nice smith, and
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: it just worked out that way. So for me, it
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: was more of a transformation from hobby to viable enterprise.
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: But also I will say I am not I you know,
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: I went, as I said, I went to the knife
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: show this week, and I saw these beautiful knives. These
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: guys make, right, a lot of them are craftsmen, and
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: I was like, that's I'm just not that good. And granted,
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: given time, maybe I could be, but but at this point,
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: you know, I was never that good. I think I'm
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: better in problem solving than the art is inside. Like
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: I give them as gifts and things like that, because
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: you know, you give it a gift, right, people aren't
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: going to say, oh, there's a there's a flaw.
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: At least my next question, are you you into doing
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: more adaptive tech like firstus the nine you.
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: Know what, Actually we are the way that my business
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: has put together. There's a couple of other products that
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: we're working on getting to market, and I came up
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: with about three really good, viable products around the time
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: my shoulder got reconstructed. So newlu is one of our brands.
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: We have a parent company called Red Leg Innovation, and
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: so for the for the listeners, a red Leg I
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: was an artillery in the army artillery officer, and the
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: artillery used to wear red pants, believe it or not,
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: and that has stayed. The color of the artillery is red,
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: So Red Leg Innovation is our venture studio from which
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: we are. We've got other products in different stages of development.
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: We've really had the focus with New lou right now
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: because you know, it's just what's in front of us.
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: But the intent is to create other things. But what
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: we want to do with that is it doesn't necessarily
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: have to be us creating the product, right It could
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: be an idea from a veteran, a disabled entrepreneur, or somebody.
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: As we get better at understanding how to bring things
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: to market, especially in the adaptive space, and as we
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: build relationships with people like you, then that gives us
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: the right assets and resources to help other people for
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: mutual gain of the people who will be using the product,
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: but innovative voices who otherwise may not be taken seriously
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: because let's face it, everybody's looking for the next you know,
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: big AI play or something like that. They're not looking
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: for the products that provide major, major positive impact through
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: small improvement. It's just not where they are.
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: So what we are I also brought you on because
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: I love this idea of kickstarting and jump starty and
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: I feel like, try and go on shark tank right
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: to launch their product. But here you are in your
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: own community launching this. So for those who are afraid
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: to launch their own business, their own product, what's your
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: message to them as well?
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: You know, what I would say is, first thing, find
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: out what resources are out there, right, because usually the
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: thing that stops people from doing that is how hard
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: it is. And I know for veterans there are significant grants,
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: accelerators and other programs. Would I would assume within the
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: disabled community there I just haven't focused on that that
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: there are also some assets and resources out there to
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: be able to launch a business. That's kind of the
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: first thing, right, knowing what you have to help you.
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: But what I also say is don't wait. And you know,
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: we talked earlier about the patent question wholeheartedly. You do
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: need to have an intellectual property strategy, and that's got
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: to be anything from patents to trade my mind to
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: trade secrets and all that. But but what people do
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: wrong many times is they think that the patent is
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: the key to the business model. And you know, just
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: through your conversation, you can tell I'm who I am,
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: and there probably ain't many other people like me, if
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: at all, and they're not going to be able to
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: someone's not gonna be able to hear an idea and
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: say I'm going to copy that. Right, it took us
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: a year to find a manufacturer. But most people will
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: say if I talk about it, someone's going to steal it. Well,
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: the secret out there, right, and it may someone might
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: be starting a business that actually doesn't have the complexity
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: of some other businesses, right, so they may be you know,
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: con concerned about you know, oh I if I bring
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: it up like a knife, someone's gonna steal blah blah.
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: But when you go in front of investors or people
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: who are looking at somehow partnering with you, moste in
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: the investment community, and I learned this through one of
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: these accelerats. They're looking at the founders, they're looking at
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: the team, they're looking at the business model, they're looking
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: at the market and all of that in the context
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: of the product. So if you just have a great
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: product but you don't have a passion for it, you
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: don't have experience in the market, you're going after you
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: don't know, people are gonna look, they're gonna say, I eat,
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: you know. But so my point with your question of
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: if someone wants to do it, talk about it right
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: like you'll be amazed at one, how many people aren't
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: gonna steal what you want to do, and number two,
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: how many people will be so helpful to what you
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: want to do. And if it's a service business, you know,
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: at the end of the day, just start the business
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: right like you can. There's not the aspect of finding
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: who can create a product and you know who you're
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: gonna who's gonna manufacture it, and your religious to all that.
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: Like a service business is a little bit easier. But
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: if someone's doing like what we did as an organization,
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: the best thing you can do is just get out
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: there and get out there and get out there, find
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: local founders, groups and groups like that, and you're you're
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: gonna just time after time after time, get people go.
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: I got to introduce you to somebody the podcast I
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: was talking about today. A gentleman introduced me to this
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: woman who has a business called the Blind Kitchen. Oh
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: and this was I'm sorry, this wasn't the podcast, when
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: this was just a call today and she she I
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: never would have met her if I hadn't been talking
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: about this. And he was like, oh, you should really
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: talk to this vision impaired person because she she does,
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: you know, vision impaired cutting, and if I was like.
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: Quite, frankly, I'd love to have this person on because
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: that's very innovative too, Like this idea of being visually
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: impair and cutting, that's a very intriguing topic.
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: She's on her her business called the Blind Kitchen, and
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: she was a dynamo. So we're but but but the
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: point is it's very very hard to recreate whatever you're
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: working on, and frankly, if you are, oh you know what,
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: before we dive into that, one thing that people should
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: definitely be doing is using tech. And what's good is
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: the disabled community especially is really good at not being
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: shy about using things that work well. Right. AI is
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: an amazing thing in getting your business off the ground.
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: It can help you write a business plan. It could
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: tell you whether your idea is easily copied and how
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: you work around it. Now, you have to have a
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: basic understanding, right you Probably if you don't understand business,
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: you've got to understand business. Use it the right way.
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: But if you can establish that your business model, your service,
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: all those things are differentiated enough, then you should never
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: be tired of talking about it or afraid of talking
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: about it. Actually, And that's where I've gotten to. You know,
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: I'm sure I have friends who are like I wish
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: you would be afraid of talking about it because it's
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: all we hear about. But you have to have that
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: singular viewpoint of this is going to be something I
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: create and the joy is later on when the naysayers
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: who told you I don't see it and you create
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: it and a lot of the naysayers understand the naysayers.
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: When you're talking to people, got you gotta be able
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: to kind of categorize them, right, like you know who
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: the naysayers are, well, use them right, figure out what
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: the naysayers say, and figure out how to sell against that.
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: But other people will have great input for you, like, oh,
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: if you do this, this would be amazing. If you
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: did this, this would be amazing. Or better yet, I
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: know somebody you know here who really can help you
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: get some type of penetration into a market that you
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: weren't thinking of. You know, one of the things that's
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: happened with us. That was really interesting was we've ended
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: up with one of our channels ending up heavily trying
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: to court the gift market and not like hey I'm
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: gonna buy you, I'm gonna buy my mom one, but
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: like corporate gifts gifts to clients because right, if somebody
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: has an older client who's struggling, well, why not give
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: them a gift that's going to make their life better.
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: So it's you know, it's it's it's a very interesting thing.
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: But I would tell people the biggest things just start,
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: just start, ask for help and go out.
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: And do it. Well, there you go, and yes, uh,
• 35:30
  Speaker 3: entering the space is such a big deal, Doug, I
• 35:32
  Speaker 3: gotta say this. It looks like.
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: Also you're using this specific new lou and by the way,
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: Red Leg Innovations one leg up.
• 35:40
  Speaker 3: It's no wonder we're collaborating here.
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: There you go, There you go.
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: But you know, it looks like you're also using this
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: tool as a way to advance advocacy and really awareness
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: for Parkinson's and MS.
• 35:52
  Speaker 3: Can you talk about those different campaigns as well.
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: Absolutely. One thing we're actually really trying to do with
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: that is a couple of things. First product improvement. We
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: want to come from the communities that we're working with.
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: You.
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: I've had all people tell me all kind of cool stuff,
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: but then you talk to somebody who's like, hey, like
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: this would be great serrated here whatever. Right, So one,
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: we're trying to work with those communities and in doing so,
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: much of the time we're providing awareness just through our
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: own networks. Right, anytime we partner with an adaptive office
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: within one of the states and we're able to say, hey,
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: we're working with these guys, it doesn't just help buss,
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: it brings awareness to that group. The other thing that
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: we did in our kickstarter, and we're trying to really
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: figure out how to do it on a broader scale,
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: is we did a little bit of a longer crowdfunding.
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: We actually and it's funny, it ended up being a
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: beneficial obstacle because we were running into some manufacturing challenges
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: on timeline, so we extended our kickstarter by an extra
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: third days. But that gave us the ability to have
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: sixty days, and we had each week an awareness week, right,
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: because what we want to do is really talk about
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: how many different people there are with all these challenges,
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: and when you aggregate them. It's a very big market
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: that needs to be identified, made aware, you know, there
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: needs to be designed for and all that. So we
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: are very much working at trying to do that, but
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: in a way we're also looking at trying to flatten
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: this curve in people looking at able and disabled. Right. So, ultimately,
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: I think the advocacy, the pinnacle, the nirvana of advocacy
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: is when there no longer needs to be any and
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: it's like, Okay, when you're designing a product that is
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: an everyday product that generally people are going to use,
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: is there a way to make it just better? And
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: ultimately that's going to benefit everybody. And I think that's
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: where we're trying to get with this disabled thing because
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: it is such a label. It is such a thing
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: that creates an identity for people, whether they want to
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: or not. And I think that's the height of where
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: this needs to get to, right, Like accession that you say.
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: What people can do it too? Basically what the whole point.
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And frankly that the crap I get tired of
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: is the people that are outspokenly against some of the
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: things that we're talking about ada adaptive accessibility and all that.
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: Until all of a sudden, they're the one who needs
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: it and then it's the most important thing on earth.
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: And that's what really really drives me crazy these days
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: is when you see that that dichotomy, right, it's sort
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: of like the veteran thing we were talking about. Nobody
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: is saying, oh, let's ignore disabled folks, But nobody or
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: very few are saying ignoring them isn't the problem. It's
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: actively working to allow them to function in a manner
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: that the rest of us can and have the freedom
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: of movement, you know, freedom in the kitchen, all that
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: kind of stuff. And I think that's where sometimes all
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: this dialogue gets lost is just to say hey, you know,
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: and partly that's why we create this ability curve model
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: is because where we want to get to is to say, great,
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: you're not disabled today, boss, but I'll tell you something.
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: Let me talk to you in twenty years.
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: By the way, if you think about this, Doug, sorry
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: and drupt, but you're just gott me fired up, because
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: if you think about this, your tool can help kitchens
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: and restaurants hire more pupil disabilities to do their to
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: do cooking for them, and to hire disabled chefs.
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: I mean that's a channel we're working on right now.
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: And what was interesting is with the changes that are
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: occurring in dc UH and getting rid of things like
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: the ADA, the you know, osha, all these things are
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: going to be defanged if they're around it all and
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: that is a you know, we're actually working with some
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: organizations that train disabled youth to transition into being able
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: to work in you know, wherever the colony room, like
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: down syndrome UH and some of the other ones where
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: they naturally have grip issues. That was a big part
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: of our business coming out of the gate is we
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: did see that as a great opportunity. But I love
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: what you're saying because the other part of it is
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: there's two sides of it, right. It expands the workforce
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: where you can now bring in people who have disabilities
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: and they can work and they can do a job
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: that they love, that they can have more independence because
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: I think I read somewhere the degree of income equality
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: within the disabled community is far lower to the able body,
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: just for so many reasons. So yes, one hundred percent,
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: it does that. But what's also is it's good preventative
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: aspect because the other way you can become disabled is
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: repetitive stress injuries, carpal tunnel tennis, elbow tendonitis, all of
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: that stuff. Well, guess what, our knife prevents that issue.
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: So we're heavily looking at trying to get into commercial kitchens.
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: The hard part is there's a little bit of a premium,
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: but it does replace several knives, and an idea that
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: I've been batting around, I just have to find I
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: got to talk about it enough to find the right
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: people is trying to use a back door to get
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: in for the same benefit. Right at the end of
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: the day, if I can have a commercial kitchen use
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: my product and it provides good then that's what I
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: want to do. So we are experimenting a little bit
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: right now with trying to find the right people who
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: work within the workmen's comp type area, right because fundamentally
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: they want to lower their workmen's comp claims, and so
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: does everybody else. Right, because if someone's making workmen's comp
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: claim they got injured, well let's have them not get injured.
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: So maybe maybe the cash register, the or the financial
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: benefit of not having workmen's Comms claims will achieve what
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: we could have or maybe what we couldn't have. Just
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: with Adya and Osh and things like that. So we're
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: really trying to get into commercial kitchens. You know. The
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: big challenges is anything new, especially for a business owner,
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: does tend to have a little bit of pushback.
• 42:17
  Speaker 3: Doug.
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: I appreciate this conversation, and as you're doing these tech initiatives,
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: please come back. You know, I'm glad that pop match. Yeah,
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: but let's run with this connection and keep it growing.
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: And by the way, you're a Maryland Are you an
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: Oreole fan or.
• 42:28
  Speaker 3: A National fan?
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: Now I'm in I'm in Chicago.
• 42:31
  Speaker 3: You're in Chicago. I know, I thought, and I grew.
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: Up in Michigan being a Tigers fan. I so you
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: know Chicago, right, Chicago, you got the north side on
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: the south side, and I didn't grow up in Chicago,
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: so I don't really care. Cubs games are more fun.
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: But usually the demarcation a lot of times is you
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: know that north south. And when I lived in oak Park,
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: the suburb I lived before I lived in the one
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: i'm in now. There's a main highway that goes in
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: Chicago two ninety and we were the first block south.
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: So I said, if I got to pick I'm a Southsider,
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: so I guess i'll I'll watch more SoC and frankly,
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: I could take my family to a Socks game. It
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: was a little bit cheaper, bigger stadium, so but neither
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: team has been too good in the past couple of years,
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: so I guess, of.
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: Course, Well, the White Sox actually surpassed the Tigers and
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: Mets old records of yours, so it's been I'm more.
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: Of a football guy. Actually, I've got a little more
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: into basketball since my son's been playing. I was a
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: rugby player a long time ago, so I definitely like
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: the sports where you where you where you mix it
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: up a little bit.
• 43:31
  Speaker 3: Well, there you go, Chicago.
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: And I didn't realize Sammy Sosi was a White Sox
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: before he became a Cub.
• 43:36
  Speaker 3: That's something I learned recently.
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: So there you go, there you go.
• 43:39
  Speaker 3: All right, one last thing.
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: If the Bears turned around.
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: Right, oh man, Ben Johnson, what a great hire for
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: for for the Bear. So we'll have to see one
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: last thing. Though, people do suffer from what's called the
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: claw hand. And when I look at this model the claw,
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: this feels perfect for people who suffer from that condition.
• 43:58
  Speaker 3: Have you noticed people with claw hands work this.
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: You know what I have not. And it's interesting you
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: say that because I had not heard of that specifically
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: that condition, But I have seen conditions that do that.
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: And this is where another aspect of the geometry right,
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: If you're not having to transfer force through a perpendicular tool,
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: then you don't have to grip it as hard. So
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: one thing that is exceptionally beneficial is because it fits
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: right and because it transfers the force the right way.
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: All you're doing with the grip is making that connection,
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: where if you use a regular knife, there is a
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: lot more work. I mean, frankly, if you look at
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: a chef using a train chef right who's been to
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: school and has their own knives, and a lot most
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: of those guys don't even hold the handle the knife.
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: So if you go and you look online and say
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: look at proper knife usage, they sort of pinched the
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: pardon me, the spine at the point that it attaches
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: to the handle. And I asked this one chef, I said,
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: why do you do that? And he said for balance? Right,
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: like I'm saying, I said, what's the handle for? He
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: said balance? But he goes, you know, you use this
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: so you have more control. That was an AHA moment, right,
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: That was a moment where I looked and said, that
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: person is changing their body to use the knife. If
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: you had something like a clawhand challenge or any type
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: of you're not using a knife the right way. And
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: if you can't use a knife the way a chef
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: would and you're holding it by the handle, you're already
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: fighting a losing battle. So any listeners out there, anybody
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: with club or claw hand, yes, you know, and we're
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: we are always looking for people in a position to
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: help us move forward who would like to evaluate the
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: knife right because ultimately, that's how we're going to get ambassadors,
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: that's we're going to get a lot of stuff. So
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: we're always looking for those type of folks within those
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: communities because frankly, yes I'm a disabled vet, but in
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: a lot of communities, I'm a carpet bagger if I
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: go in there saying this is the greatest thing ever.
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: And we are actively rolling out an affiliate program where
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: the people with whom we connect with, especially in either
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: the veteran disabled or disabled veteran community, if they're interested
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: in becoming affiliates. Ultimately, you know, there's a there's a
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: screening process, but we would love for them to be
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: our representation.
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: We mean, you mean the One leg Up Network could
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: be an affiliate.
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: Affiliate would love to talk to you after this, because
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: what we would love to do is there there's a
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: benefit right and the people. The people could look at
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: me and say, okay, it disabled vet. But if you were,
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: if you were to see me, you might look and say,
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: I don't get right, like I have migraine issues, not
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: a real visible thing I am. I am annoying. You know,
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: I'm not missing any body parts except for my order
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: that doesn't count and a bunch of right. But ultimately
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: I don't stand out that way. And while we're working
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: in those communities, I would love to help, Like if
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: if somebody as an affiliate can make enough extra money
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: to help them move into a more we would love that.
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: And you know, especially when we were out one of
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: my partners were when we were at at this knife
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: show and you see all these people who are dealers
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: and all that kind of stuff. We really want to
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: build that part of that network in the communities that
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: would benefit because we think, well, you know, aside from
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: just doing good, we think we'll sell more right, Like,
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: at the end of the day, if someone who looks
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: like you as some of the same challenges is using it,
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: it's a far more convincing value proposition and product product fit.
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: So yeah, I would love to talk to you after
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: this because we're really trying to build that out. I'm
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: not sure when this is going to air, but we're
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: we're getting our second shipment of knives, it's the first
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: non kickstarter shipment in April and May, and we're trying
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: to pre sell that as much as possible because what
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: we'd really like to do is scale as quickly as
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: they can. Because the big thing is this is kind
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: of an experiment for our company in that if we're
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: able to successfully bring this adaptive stuff to market, then
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: the ability to go want to bring other products to
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: market is huge, but the ability to also go to
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: investors and say here's what we've done, here's how well
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: we've done it, here's the other products that we've got
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: ready to go, or in different stages of commercialization, you know,
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: let's get these things to market. So it benefits us
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: on a lot of different a lot of different levels.
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: Well, Doug, we're going to help you get there and
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: thank you so much for joining me on this first
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: A pleasure with you, Douglas and Doug Kats and we'll
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: have you on for sure, and thanks again. And yes,
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: dub aar is my dad's favorite team and he was
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: a cub fan, so I always kind of root for
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: the Cubbies because he was.
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: No it was of Chicago, he was in Chicago.
• 49:14
  Speaker 3: He was funny saying he was a Minnesota guy.
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: He was born Oklahoma, grew up in Minnesota, was a Gopher,
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: but somehow because he listened to Cubs on radio in
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: the forties, he got booked.
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: So well, you know what it's that is really because
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: you know, I lived I grew up in Grand Rapids,
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: and I remember when I moved to Chicago, it was
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: like and I'm older, I'm significant older than you. So
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: at the dawn of the cable right cable TV, it
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: was the Braves and the Cubs that every city basically
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: people would see those games because it was WGN wtvs.
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: So it's really funny because you know, that's that's what
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: I like. I asked about the Chicago roots, but it
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: could have totally been that. You know, he just watched
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: a lot of WGN on cable as a kid, right,
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: like it's funny.
• 50:00
  Speaker 3: There you go, all right, Doug, thank you so much,
• 50:02
  Speaker 3: and love Doc. Thank you.
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: The pleasure's been mine. Man I really enjoyed it.