Latest / Paranormal Lens - A Crossroads Of Curiosities, LLC Production / Enough is enough! Should haunted locations retire? When should a place STOP being investigated?

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Enough is enough! Should haunted locations retire? When should a place STOP being investigated? · Paranormal Lens - A Crossroads Of Curiosities, LLC Production

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  Coming up, you never have any true memories.
• 0:06
  Huh? Welcome to our podcast, where we take deep
• 0:09
  dives looking at various topics through a paranormal
• 0:12
  lens. Okay, so you guys got the invitations?
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  You made it to the retirement party? Yep. I was
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  very confused as to the link name, and then I'm
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  like... Sure, why not? Yeah, the Zoom link. She
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  was like, I thought this was, like, an in -person
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  event. I thought we were actually retiring. Yeah,
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  after one episode, ladies and gentlemen, we're
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  officially retiring. Retiring at the age of 25.
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  One and done. I'm 26. Okay, well, I'm gonna be
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  26 literally next month. Well, I'm still 24.
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  You're going to be 25 literally next month. Next
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  month. So median 25. OK, that's fair. The median
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  point being this is our retirement party, but
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  we're doing it old school style. This is like
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  our first of like 15 farewell tours. So like
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  join us next season for the next, you know, 20
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  episode long farewell tour. And then, oh, we're
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  back. Oh, we got a new name this time. We got
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  a new RSS feed. Oh, finally subscribed to this
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  one. We got a new one. Got a new one. We're back.
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  We changed it again. Speaking of retirement,
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  I think that brings us into the topic of what
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  I wanted to discuss today. And this might be
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  controversial. Should haunted locations be retired?
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  How do you guys feel? Isn't it at like age 65?
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  Yeah, I think that's the retirement age or has
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  it gone up? Did they push it back? They probably
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  pushed it back. Probably. So I guess, or it's
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  kind of like when a creative work gets published,
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  right? It's like X amount of years since it's
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  published that it's now public domain and enters
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  the public domain. So maybe it's like that with...
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  Ghosts. Maybe that should be the case. Oh gosh.
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  There are things in this world we never truly
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  understand. Understand. Anyways. Enough of the
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  bits. Clearly I'm just pulling everyone's leg
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  this whole episode. The point is... We've been
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  talking. You saw a TikTok, didn't you, that kind
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  of jogged this idea of, like, haunted locations?
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  Yeah. Do I remember anything about it? No. Well,
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  let's insert it. I'm going to find it. I'm going
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  to credit the person that made this TikTok that
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  planted the seed, and we'll play right now. I
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  spiral about this every couple of months, and
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  I want to genuinely know, at what point do we
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  stop? As paranormal investigators, at what point
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  do we say, okay, we're done in this location,
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  we're good, we do not need to investigate it
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  anymore. We can let the ghosts rest now. Goodbye.
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  At what point does that happen? I think about
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  these very well -known haunted locations, right?
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  The places that we write books about. The places
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  where we probably know the identity of the spirits,
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  and they are more than willing to interact, it
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  seems, because they are there, and they show
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  up constantly. But at what point are we going
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  to leave them alone? The more that I work in
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  the paranormal investigation field, the more
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  evidence I gather that shows that ghosts are
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  actually extremely aware of us. They ask for
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  us by name sometimes. They know when we're not
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  there and they ask where we are. They remember
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  us. They interact with the environment when we
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  ask them to. We go in there, hundreds of teams,
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  hundreds of people a year go in trying to get
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  them to communicate, asking them, knock if you're
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  here. Give us a sign. How exhausted do you think
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  they are? Because we do go in and ask these same
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  goddamn questions every single time. I acknowledge
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  there's an issue with this. I am guilty of this
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  too. Like, do we reach a certain time where we
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  as the paranormal collective can just agree that
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  it's good? We know? I don't want it to stop.
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  I don't want to stop going and investigating
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  these locations. And the really haunted ones,
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  the famous ones, I want to get to go to there
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  sometime. I do. But I get stupid emotional when
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  I think about them and how we annoy them all
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  the time. All right. So that was at spooky .scoundrel
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  on TikTok. Everyone else got context? We did
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  not. That's if we found it. Yeah. So either that
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  was a really awkward transition or you guys got
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  context. We did not. We still did not. We're
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  still in the now. Yeah, we're still now. But
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  when you see us, it will be the future and an
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  edited version of the past, which I guess is
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  a poetic reflection of how memory works. And
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  what is it? You never have any true memories.
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  Huh? Never? What are you talking about? Okay,
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  settle down, everybody. Settle down. Deep breaths.
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  Why do we think haunted locations should be or
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  should not be retired? Brianna, what have you
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  been thinking about? Well, see, that's a great
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  question. Because, like, when you think about
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  ghost hunting in general, like, I feel like a
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  lot of locations that we go to, we... run into
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  spirits or entities that's like just don't want
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  to talk to us like go away no i'm not interacting
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  with you i mean they still they still end up
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  interacting with us to an extent but like at
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  what point do you call it being disrespectful
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  and move on and stop investigating that location
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  it probably feels like harassment to them at
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  some point exactly like if you if if you're a
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  person who believes that what you're interacting
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  with was a person at some point is a person is
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  beyond their life but is still living in some
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  sort of way if you have random people tromping
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  around your home bugging you wouldn't you get
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  annoyed after that after a while like all night
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  long exactly the definition of a roommate that
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  will not shut up all night a night owl and every
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  night you have a different roommate and you don't
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  even who who are these people what are you doing
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  in my house exactly mission so like one one location
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  pops into my head like thinking about it right
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  off the bat This might be controversial because
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  we're kind of assisting a team in doing a documentary
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  on it, and that's Paraschini. But Paraschini
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  has such a long history in it. When my older
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  siblings were in school, and before they were
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  even in school, Paraschini Cemetery was the party
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  place for high schoolers. So if you go out there
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  nowadays, there's like three headstones that
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  are still intact. because all the other ones
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  were vandalized stolen people used to have bonfires
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  out there and ben and i have been out at the
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  cemetery during the day and like every single
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  spirit or entity or anything we came across was
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  like hey do you want to interact no go away and
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  i think literally while we were there random
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  people pulled up because if you're out and about
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  in Grayling, Michigan, know anything about any
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  of the history around there, you got to stop
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  by Paraschini. Everyone stops by Paraschini.
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  So quad runners are pulling up, side -by -sides
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  pulling up. I think literally one person popped
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  out and was air -humping a sign. Oh, they 100
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  % were. Uh -huh, 100%. I remember you guys telling
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  me that story. Yeah. So at some point, when do
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  you say is enough for a location? Like at some
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  point. Those people, possibly, or entities, must
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  grow tired of investigators, people, coming and
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  harassing them all the time. Oh, absolutely.
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  Here's the thing, though. Because that's going
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  to be... There's going to be places that are
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  going to be popular for the rest... For a long,
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  long time, you know, like people are just going
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  to be casually walking through the place or whatever.
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  Like, is it bugging them when we're just like,
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  people are just minding their own business? Or
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  is it really, is it bugging them when it's, we're
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  purposely trying to interact with them? Well,
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  Pirashini is a different breed because minding
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  your own business is still, you're essentially.
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  But not everyone is like us. The documentary
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  we're doing is literally we're working with the
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  Historical Society to investigate the entirety
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  of the story. A lot of these people that go and
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  they stop by, they're only focused on this heavily
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  vandalized cemetery. And as Bree said, people
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  roll up to the cemetery, drunk off their ass,
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  their grandparents. in their grandparents grandparents
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  going all the way back generations have talked
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  about the ghosts and the witch of the cemetery
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  and they fail to mention there's a whole freaking
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  ghost town surrounding it the railroad tracks
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  are haunted the historical society is haunted
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  75 of the documentary we're doing It's just about
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  the history. Yeah, it has nothing to do with
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  the cemetery. No, the cemetery is like a small
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  part of it. Yeah, but the thing is, the cemetery
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  is vandalized. So even if you go, and they have
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  no records, all the records are lost to history
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  about the people that are buried there because
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  the vandalism is that bad. You don't even know
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  where the graves are or who is buried there.
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  So minding your own business is walking around,
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  you're still disrespecting. unless you take a
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  historical and respectful tone and you reiterate
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  that every time you go, like, hey, you know,
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  I'm just here minding my own business. I respect
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  you, all that stuff. If you go in with the intent
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  of respect, then that's fine. But if you go in
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  drunk, humping, graves, asking the same five
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  questions. Do the ghosts care, though? Well,
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  you start asking them questions, and they say
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  leave. Like, respectfully leave. So... Yeah.
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  My favorite is when you ask a ghost, are you
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  here? And they say no. Yeah. It's like... No.
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  It's like, well, I mean, but you responded, so...
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  It's like a ghost is, like, too nice. Help me
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  understand your response right now. I always
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  take that as a ghost wanting to say... get the
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  fuck out but they're just too nice and they're
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  like no yeah it's kind of like how when someone
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  asks you to do something and you say no but do
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  it anyways yeah anyways but on the other hand
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  on the flip side um you also have these locations
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  where it seems like there's like different entities
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  or spirits that are constantly moving through
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  like that aren't the same and i know we we kind
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  of had that discussion at madison in madison
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  seminary yeah how when we talked to the owners
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  they said we don't think that the spirits who
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  were here originally when we got the place are
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  here anymore and that whatever is here is something
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  new so in that kind of circumstance maybe that
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  kind of location doesn't need to be retired because
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  it's different entities whereas some of these
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  other locations where these beings and entities
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  are trapped for some reason like oh brianna is
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  disappearing yeah i'm sorry anyone watching the
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  video version two things are distracting me one
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  brianna brendan started disappearing and angela
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  i've no what the hell are you looking at in the
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  bottom right of your screen you're like you haven't
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  looked straight at the camera the entire recording
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  and i am so distracted by this What are you doing?
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  What's down there? What secrets are you withholding?
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  I'm looking at paper. Like with notes on them
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  or just like blank paper? My own personal paper
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  with stuff on it. Okay, what? Anyways. Okay,
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  I'll try to pay attention better. No, no, I know
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  you're paying attention, but just if anyone out
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  there has like... the neuroses or like ocd or
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  whatever that i have and it's like why is angela
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  looking down there the whole time your answer
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  probably satisfied the masses by saying i'm looking
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  at paper oh with notes on it personal paper with
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  stuff maybe maybe that'll be our next because
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  we were talking last week about like for a while
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  we're like You know, if we hit 100 ,000 followers,
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  we'll release the possession tapes. Now, if we
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  have 100 ,000 followers, we'll release Angela's
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  paper. We'll release the documents. Oh, God.
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  Release the documents. The retirement papers.
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  The retirement papers. No, but I think it's twofold,
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  Bree. When you say a location like Madison Seminary,
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  where A, The ghosts are likely transient. They're
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  coming in and out. Not the same spirits. But
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  it's also the case of the history. And something
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  that's true to Piercini as well is there's still
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  history that needs to be uncovered and disseminated
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  and talked about. Because so much of the history
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  at Piercini is lost. And that is why... That
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  is really... There's two things at Piercini.
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  Why... It is haunted. One, the graves have been
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  disrespected, but if you zoom out a little bit,
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  past the vandalism, past the cemetery itself,
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  there's no records. The history is lost. When
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  there's no history and all these lives, this
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  town is gone. That leaves a hole. This town is
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  haunted. That is a haunting. That's history that
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  wanted to be remembered and talked about. At
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  Madison, too, there's so many mysteries. Who
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  is Sarah? you know this is the main mystery but
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  also what the heck there's like so many mysteries
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  going on in madison and so much uh history that
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  needs to be uncovered that there's a reason why
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  people should still go there even if even if
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  you go to madison seminary or if you go to piercini
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  and any of these locations even if you go and
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  you do alternate experiments you know do paranormal
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  tests experiment do do something other than doing
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  an evp session asking the ghosts the same five
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  million questions everyone else has there's still
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  like history there that that's there's a reason
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  to go if you go to a place like waverly hills
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  for example where every single tv show ever to
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  exist ever been has done an episode at waverly
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  hills and if you look at you know we were talking
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  last week about like the basic five -act structure
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  of these shows you know all of them start with
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  the history section you can swap that history
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  section in and out of any of these shows dating
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  back 10 years 20 years you know even the ones
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  filmed a year ago versus the ones filmed in 2005
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  i think is when ghost hunters went there there's
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  nothing it's all the same it's the same location
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  the same history the same script literally the
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  same script there's nothing new no one wants
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  we're big on looking at history through a paranormal
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  lens because that's a fresh lens that's you makes
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  it engaging and exciting for you know we always
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  say like our generation but like all generations
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  like this is a interesting and fresh perspective
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  but when you look at only one tiny sliver of
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  history and hammer down through that single perspective
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  like at that point either move on from the waverly
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  hills story no one cares anymore or look at it
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  from a different angle if that involves retiring
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  the location retire the location because there's
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  also speculation that they and this is all hearsay
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  i don't know if we should we have one rule and
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  that's like we don't call individuals and and
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  it businesses locations i guess that kind of
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  is like fine line but anyways I heard, allegedly,
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  this is not confirmed, that someone at some point
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  brought something darker to Waverly Hills that
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  didn't exist there. Isn't that a theory? Yes,
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  and we've been told by people that would know
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  that. Yeah. That someone involved, not saying
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  the owners, I don't know who. Maybe someone that
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  runs a ghost hunt or something. Someone, allegedly,
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  brought something there so that it would be active
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  on TV. I've heard that from multiple different
• 18:04
  people before, actually. You've heard it too?
• 18:07
  Yeah. Okay. Yep, but like we said, that's just
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  a theory. We're not saying it's true. We've never
• 18:18
  been there. We have no opinion about it. You
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  get to that point of a building that is haunted
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  where it seems like you have to bring in something
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  else to keep it interesting. At that point, the
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  location should just be retired. Let them rest.
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  Waverly was my first thought. There's no new
• 18:42
  history. to be uncovered you're allegedly bringing
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  things in just to keep things exciting for your
• 18:49
  paying customers you're operating as a business
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  which i i is i know is like one of the counter
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  arguments against retiring it because it's bringing
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  in a lot of business and people to the town but
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  also it's louisville kentucky i mean it's not
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  like there's there's a counter argument to the
• 19:07
  freaking i mean like where the heck is the veleska
• 19:10
  axe murder house that's in the middle of rural
• 19:13
  Iowa. So think about it like rural Iowa. You
• 19:18
  have all these people coming and bringing money.
• 19:20
  They book hotels. They go out to eat. That's
• 19:22
  bringing a lot of money into the town. Also,
• 19:24
  if you have a paranormal investigator, paranormal
• 19:26
  enthusiast that comes from rural Iowa, how many
• 19:30
  spots do they really have to be able to get started
• 19:32
  and go out ghost hunting? So you're taking away
• 19:34
  a prime location from them. But if you're in
• 19:36
  like a major city, like there's other spots in
• 19:39
  Louisville. I don't think Waverly Hills is really
• 19:42
  going to affect the, I mean, I don't know. This
• 19:45
  is getting into triple down economics. Waverly
• 19:47
  Hill is, it's also more than just ghost hunting.
• 19:50
  I mean, look at the place. It's big. It's ginormous.
• 19:53
  It's, it has history. It's gorgeous. There's,
• 19:56
  it's more than just ghost hunting to the place
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  too. Like when you say retirement, like what
• 20:02
  does that mean exactly? Does that mean like just
• 20:04
  stop the ghost hunting part? Or, like, could
• 20:07
  you still keep the place open to the public?
• 20:10
  Is that still disturbing the peace for the ghosts?
• 20:12
  Yeah, that's a great question. And it's up for
• 20:15
  debate. I would say, retirement -wise, in my
• 20:20
  brain, like, no more ghost hunting there, because
• 20:25
  that's, like, I feel like you could still have
• 20:28
  a building like that open, it seems like. Kyle,
• 20:32
  I feel like having places like that open... And
• 20:35
  letting people explore and see the history of
• 20:38
  it, that's also very important. Like, I shouldn't
• 20:41
  just close stuff like that down. I don't know.
• 20:44
  I guess it's debatable. But, like, we're also
• 20:47
  talking theoretically here. Like, when is anyone
• 20:50
  ever actually going to retire a haunted location?
• 20:55
  It's never going to happen. Well, so here's the
• 20:58
  thing. It's never going to happen. Why? Because
• 21:01
  it's a business. exactly so but here's the thing
• 21:04
  so reframe that i think we all agree it would
• 21:08
  be a terrible disservice to close any historical
• 21:11
  location because you're uh that it's the same
• 21:14
  thing as like erasing history if you make it
• 21:17
  inaccessible and it's the same thing in both
• 21:19
  ways we all know the location that charges like
• 21:22
  three thousand dollars to go investigate that's
• 21:25
  also excluding and you know essentially erasing
• 21:27
  history if everyone's like priced out of it but
• 21:29
  if you close it down for good We're not saying
• 21:32
  that, but I think there are ways you can still...
• 21:37
  This sounds bad when you phrase it like this.
• 21:40
  Be ethical and respectful. Be ethical and respectful
• 21:44
  in how you exploit your location's history and
• 21:50
  potential spirits for profit. Yeah. Which is
• 21:54
  a very ethical thing to do. So, one example.
• 22:00
  It probably isn't really an example because they
• 22:03
  don't really broadcast that they're haunted.
• 22:06
  It's Traverse City State Hospital. They've never
• 22:11
  broadcasted that they're haunted. They're very
• 22:13
  against it. They don't talk about it a lot because
• 22:16
  they're trying to renovate it and rebuild the
• 22:21
  old buildings and make it more into condos and
• 22:24
  an actual place to live and a community. But
• 22:30
  you still can go on those tours, like the historical
• 22:35
  tours and go out and about and like see the location,
• 22:39
  learn about the history, which the history is
• 22:41
  phenomenal. And if you haven't done the tour
• 22:43
  at Traverse City State Hospital, I would highly
• 22:45
  recommend it because like a lot of practices
• 22:51
  that happened there and like. I don't want to
• 22:57
  call it experimentation, but kind of experimentation
• 22:59
  in creating an inviting environment for patients
• 23:10
  in a psychiatric hospital where it seems like
• 23:14
  it's terrible. I mean, it is terrible, but making
• 23:18
  it seem welcome. Like a lot of things, they made
• 23:22
  leaps and bounds in that hospital to... create
• 23:26
  what we have today so were they uh no no it was
• 23:30
  eloise one of them i think it was eloise though
• 23:33
  uh like kind of pioneered music therapy but i
• 23:37
  think that was eloise also maybe yeah but no
• 23:41
  like the one thing that i remember off the top
• 23:43
  of my head because i mean munson is a big hospital
• 23:47
  in michigan and munson oh there's a monsoon no
• 23:51
  munson i'm like that's not a hospital like that's
• 23:54
  like You go straight into the, you're just trapped
• 23:57
  in a monsoon. Do we even get monsoons in Michigan?
• 24:01
  No. Okay. But Munson, Dr. Munson, he was one
• 24:05
  of the doctors who worked there. And one of the
• 24:07
  things that comes to my mind, like right off
• 24:09
  the bat is if you go into like the women's ward
• 24:13
  of the hospital, it has these big grand arched
• 24:17
  ceilings. They're just, it's. feels so open and
• 24:21
  eerie and it's and that is one of the things
• 24:23
  that he started developing and like introducing
• 24:27
  into these hospitals to make it feel open to
• 24:30
  help settle the patient's brains and make them
• 24:35
  feel more at ease because they didn't feel trapped
• 24:37
  and confined yeah so but anyways but as i was
• 24:41
  saying you could consider a place like the traverse
• 24:44
  city state hospital like a retired location because
• 24:49
  They don't broadcast that they're paranormal.
• 24:52
  They don't do paranormal investigations. If you
• 24:55
  get the right tour guide at night, yeah, they'll
• 24:58
  talk about the haunted stuff. They'll let you
• 25:00
  look around. But you're not really allowed to
• 25:02
  bring equipment. You don't take pictures or you
• 25:05
  don't take videos. You don't do actual investigating.
• 25:09
  But they let you walk around at night. So people
• 25:11
  that are interested. Yeah. and go there at night
• 25:15
  on a dark tour which is still as you're saying
• 25:18
  talking about like the positive stuff that the
• 25:20
  hospital did yeah and it's it's a historical
• 25:23
  tour and yeah of course people go on like i went
• 25:25
  on that tour and you know i had an emf detector
• 25:29
  and a full spectrum camera and i happened to
• 25:32
  get the guy who was a paranormal investigator
• 25:34
  and was like yeah i don't care do your stuff
• 25:36
  but in those sorts of situations like you're
• 25:42
  one person or a couple people you're in a spot
• 25:45
  for like five minutes and then you move on to
• 25:48
  the next spot and yeah you can definitely tell
• 25:52
  there were some entities there that were like
• 25:54
  i'm over it go away and the tour guides are there
• 25:58
  all the time and they're like yeah that's so
• 26:00
  and so leave them alone like they know and and
• 26:05
  that's that's a i think that's a very very respectful
• 26:09
  way to go into a building or on a location that
• 26:14
  one has such a incredible history but also two
• 26:18
  not a great history like yeah unfortunately there
• 26:22
  was a lot of bad things that happened in the
• 26:24
  hospital like overcrowding understaffing all
• 26:29
  this other stuff that's not so great that they
• 26:30
  don't really talk about on the tours well i think
• 26:34
  they should talk about everything yeah They do
• 26:37
  talk about it a little bit, but they also try
• 26:39
  to look more on the positive side because who
• 26:42
  wants to look at the dark side of history, unfortunately?
• 26:45
  I mean, you should. That's how you learn. But
• 26:47
  anyways. I get it. I forgot what track I was
• 26:53
  on. But either way, it's definitely I feel like
• 27:00
  that is a better way to preserve history while
• 27:06
  retiring in quotations a location um because
• 27:10
  you still you're not you're still not bothering
• 27:13
  like i mean yeah you can still bother the entities
• 27:17
  and spirits that are there but still look at
• 27:20
  it in a different light and be more respectful
• 27:23
  because if you're not respectful they kick you
• 27:25
  out of that tour like you're done yeah i remember
• 27:28
  when we were just walking the grounds we didn't
• 27:30
  do a tour we were just like walking around trying
• 27:32
  to peek inside the buildings and if something
• 27:36
  weird did happen it wouldn't let me film at all
• 27:39
  inside the building like i know you said oh yeah
• 27:42
  yeah at the men's ward yeah there's a rule that
• 27:44
  when you can't film the tour which is like a
• 27:47
  common rule because they're ip and everything
• 27:49
  so you can't film the tour but you can walk around
• 27:52
  and there's no one stopping you from like you
• 27:55
  know taking social media videos or whatever um
• 27:58
  i tried getting a little video inside the window
• 28:01
  and peeking in it won't let me it would take
• 28:03
  me take as as many photos as i wanted so i have
• 28:07
  a bunch of photos but i have no video because
• 28:08
  it would not work yeah i remember that yeah that's
• 28:13
  kind of like something just being like yeah no
• 28:15
  we don't we don't want that so i was like all
• 28:18
  right i respect you and walked away but um it
• 28:23
  did jog my my my thinking my motors i do have
• 28:27
  a couple up there um is if a location is retired
• 28:33
  should they go all the way like you're if if
• 28:37
  there are still spirits at Traverse City for
• 28:40
  example which we believe there are just because
• 28:43
  they definitely are just because you're not asking
• 28:46
  them ad nauseum five million times a night what
• 28:51
  your favorite color is you're still getting these
• 28:53
  people walking into their space sharing the history
• 28:58
  about them speaking for them about how they died
• 29:02
  and if what if someone did die in a unfortunate
• 29:07
  or traumatic you know way at this hospital and
• 29:11
  then you have this tour guide come in and be
• 29:12
  like we were so positive nothing bad ever happened
• 29:16
  here and then you have a ghost in the corner
• 29:18
  i feel like i represented that poorly screaming
• 29:21
  like No, tell my story correctly. And then you
• 29:24
  don't have any ghost hunters coming in to even
• 29:26
  provide the opportunity to tell the story in
• 29:30
  the way that's, you know, accurate to the individual.
• 29:33
  Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, should you
• 29:35
  go all the way and just cleanse the location?
• 29:38
  Yeah, that's a good question. Then the spirits
• 29:40
  to the light. Whatever the hell that means. But
• 29:43
  that's a topic for another day. But you know
• 29:48
  what I'm saying? Like, at that point. Do they
• 29:51
  then, like, what if there's an increase in activity?
• 29:53
  Should there not be a retirement or should there
• 29:56
  just be, like, a pause? Like, a factory reset?
• 29:59
  That's a good question. I mean, I feel like,
• 30:03
  I don't know. Because I'm talking all theoretical
• 30:07
  and there is no real right or wrong answer, I
• 30:11
  feel like. i don't yeah i don't know who knows
• 30:17
  i didn't think this hard about this topic honestly
• 30:20
  i didn't even i didn't even know what to think
• 30:22
  about it because i never thought about this before
• 30:25
  yeah well you have all those notes angela like
• 30:29
  when you think about it a little bit or when
• 30:32
  you think about the ethics of ghost hunting one
• 30:34
  of the things we do a lot is or have done a lot
• 30:39
  in the past is investigate cemeteries. While
• 30:42
  that in itself is a little controversial because
• 30:44
  there's people, people's families and relatives
• 30:47
  that are buried there and they don't necessarily
• 30:49
  want a whole bunch of random people jaunting
• 30:52
  around a cemetery where their, their family is
• 30:57
  buried and stirring up trouble. And so that in
• 31:01
  itself is like an ethical dilemma of paranormal
• 31:04
  investigating. So when you look at it in that
• 31:07
  standpoint, of a location like it's kind of falls
• 31:13
  within the same range of like should it or should
• 31:16
  it not be investigated should we leave the spirits
• 31:20
  alone well i think there's a proper way to do
• 31:23
  it i mean as long as we've been investigating
• 31:25
  i try my best i mean we're not always perfect
• 31:29
  at it but i try my best not to include close
• 31:32
  -ups of like the names on the graves or like
• 31:35
  yeah you know um unless it's highly relevant
• 31:38
  to the story and the lore like there's one grave
• 31:41
  that's said to be like you know they're a notable
• 31:44
  historical figure and they're said to be haunting
• 31:47
  it most of the time it's from a historical angle
• 31:50
  or if it's like there's always like the one grave
• 31:52
  that's misidentified as a witch and then that
• 31:55
  grave gets vandalized so we bring it up in order
• 31:59
  to dispel the rumors and minimize in our attempts
• 32:03
  because we you know We do, in some ways, when
• 32:07
  we go and we repeat these legends, we have a
• 32:09
  responsibility to at least minimize some of the
• 32:13
  damage, literally, that can occur to the graves.
• 32:16
  Once you insert a grave, a specific person's
• 32:20
  grave, into a legend, there are assholes that,
• 32:23
  as we saw with Piercini, will vandalize. So,
• 32:26
  trying to dispel legends more than sensationalize
• 32:31
  them. But anyways, I do try to take out all...
• 32:35
  close -ups of um in pictures and videos of the
• 32:39
  actual names on the graves unless it is highly
• 32:42
  relevant to the story yeah um but also cemeteries
• 32:48
  are controversial for another reason that i didn't
• 32:51
  even like think about at all until like very
• 32:55
  recently for some reason there's been like an
• 32:56
  influx and comments we've been getting just like
• 32:59
  in the past year of people like tons of people
• 33:02
  not just one guy or two guys or you know whatever
• 33:06
  a lot of people when commenting saying i believe
• 33:09
  in ghosts but cemeteries aren't haunted a lot
• 33:15
  of people think this a lot of people they don't
• 33:17
  even acknowledge or think about the ethical reasons
• 33:20
  you know they just don't think it's haunted they
• 33:23
  just don't think a cemetery would be haunted
• 33:25
  and this is like a widespread thing within the
• 33:27
  paranormal community people think there's ghosts
• 33:30
  like foreign believers like like believers to
• 33:33
  a fault like they believe every dust speck is
• 33:36
  is their dead aunt you know talking to them and
• 33:40
  they see faces and you know but they don't think
• 33:44
  they they can find ghosts in their in their the
• 33:49
  poor the poor quality low res picture of a dust
• 33:53
  particle they they uh scanned and then posted
• 33:56
  on facebook but it's beyond comprehension to
• 33:59
  find a ghost in a cemetery have you guys heard
• 34:02
  of this i i I feel like I haven't heard of it,
• 34:06
  but I definitely could understand why they might
• 34:11
  think that. I can't understand why. Well, because
• 34:14
  if you think about it, cemeteries is where a
• 34:20
  person's body goes to rest. And theoretically,
• 34:24
  in any religion that you think of, the soul leaves
• 34:28
  the body upon death. It's not necessarily going
• 34:31
  to stick around it. and follow it to a cemetery
• 34:35
  if anything it's going to be stuck in the location
• 34:38
  as to where they passed away i just feel like
• 34:41
  it's maybe maybe because i believe there's more
• 34:47
  than just like human ghosts out there i believe
• 34:49
  that there's other entities out there and stuff
• 34:51
  like there's there's like these entities that
• 34:57
  guard like the living side from the afterlife
• 35:03
  side you know what i mean i feel like that's
• 35:05
  where those type of things would be at and that's
• 35:09
  why i would be like those are they would definitely
• 35:11
  be haunted still you know what i mean yeah it's
• 35:14
  cemeteries have to do with so much death like
• 35:18
  there's death involved with cemeteries but the
• 35:20
  thing with cemeteries though is like yes and
• 35:25
  no that they're about death because technically
• 35:30
  The people who go there are already dead. So
• 35:33
  the death has already happened. True. What's
• 35:36
  going there is just a shell. Well, two things.
• 35:40
  Two things. One, you don't know this is a shell.
• 35:42
  You have no idea what happens. You have religious
• 35:46
  and, you know, theoretical. I'm not saying the
• 35:51
  religious stuff is not theoretical, but you have
• 35:54
  theories and then you have religion and you have
• 35:56
  all these frameworks to help explain. but not
• 36:00
  define what happens after you die. If the soul
• 36:05
  leaves the body, there is residual energy. So
• 36:08
  if you can just touch a door handle, and then
• 36:11
  you leave your energy on that door handle that
• 36:15
  ghost hunters can communicate with for centuries
• 36:17
  after, if it's that easy to give residual energy,
• 36:22
  who's to say when the soul leaves the body, there
• 36:24
  isn't some residue still in the body? There's
• 36:27
  a residual energy. When it comes to, like, when
• 36:31
  people do, like, burials and funerals or whatever
• 36:34
  at cemeteries or graveyards, there's, like, there's
• 36:38
  that energy from great temples to a grave that
• 36:42
  could be stuck there to a sense, too. Like, hauntings
• 36:46
  might not just be associated with the death.
• 36:48
  It could be associated with even living people
• 36:50
  leaving their energy at the spots that could
• 36:52
  turn residual and stuff like that. Yeah, absolutely.
• 36:54
  I actually didn't think of it that way. As Angela
• 36:57
  said too, or was getting at, graves, cemeteries,
• 37:03
  very liminal spaces. You literally have these
• 37:08
  people in the earth. They're soaking up in the
• 37:12
  earth. And these graves are like thresholds.
• 37:17
  And people convene at these very liminal spaces
• 37:21
  and very liminal times of their life. coping
• 37:25
  the the loss of family member friend they're
• 37:29
  grieving they're literally at a crossroad in
• 37:32
  their own life and of curiosity who knows and
• 37:36
  they're going while at this crossroad at this
• 37:39
  liminal time in their life they're going to this
• 37:41
  liminal space this grave to give heavy emotion
• 37:45
  that that could be the perfect recipe for other
• 37:51
  persons you know residual energy to linger behind
• 37:55
  or for something not human not saying an entity
• 38:00
  per se but something more residual and just kind
• 38:03
  of in the air you know there's a feeling at cemeteries
• 38:05
  sometimes i feel like that feeling can be associated
• 38:08
  more with that than because there's no there's
• 38:12
  no way we talk about like vibes all the time
• 38:14
  branna you had an instance at soup cemetery where
• 38:18
  you felt a vibe yeah yeah How did you describe
• 38:23
  that? What happened for the new listeners? So
• 38:26
  when I felt a vibe, quote unquote, soup cemetery,
• 38:32
  we were just walking across the cemetery, going
• 38:35
  to go close up, wrap up our investigation. And
• 38:38
  I hit what I could almost call like a wall of
• 38:43
  energy. At the time, it felt negative or bad.
• 38:48
  who's to say what it is in my i had never felt
• 38:51
  anything like that before but i just hit this
• 38:53
  wall of energy that just made me stop in my tracks
• 38:56
  and i'm like whoa this is weird yeah like in
• 39:03
  the moment like looking back on it it's like
• 39:04
  was that bad was it negative i don't know but
• 39:07
  in that moment it was not right it was not in
• 39:12
  the normal my whole point is like that's not
• 39:15
  that's like an intense experience and that's
• 39:17
  not something you get at all these okay like
• 39:21
  if you go to a random haunted like hotel nearby
• 39:23
  and you're just like in a hotel room and you're
• 39:25
  like asking the five million questions that we
• 39:27
  think should lead to location but like that's
• 39:30
  not Something that you come across all the time.
• 39:34
  That's not dead Susie walking around or dead
• 39:38
  David. Susie and David, I don't know who these
• 39:41
  people are, but it's not like it's those dead
• 39:44
  people rising from their graves just walking
• 39:46
  around causing you to walk into a wall of energy.
• 39:49
  That's all I'm getting is that wall feeling,
• 39:52
  that vibe sometimes, that could be more residual
• 39:57
  energy or just intense emotions. absolutely i
• 40:02
  agree and i i honestly had never thought of it
• 40:04
  that way like being residual energy of people
• 40:08
  who are at who have come to the cemetery but
• 40:11
  yeah that's a different definitely an interesting
• 40:13
  way to look at it i've also heard of like the
• 40:17
  spirits like if you if you can't get past the
• 40:19
  idea that there's human spirits and demonic spirits
• 40:24
  Or, like, you know, there's, like, many frameworks.
• 40:27
  There are people who think everything's a demon.
• 40:28
  There's people who think there's humans, demons.
• 40:31
  Well, and I guess angels, too. No one ever talks
• 40:34
  about the angels. Maybe we should dedicate an
• 40:36
  episode to the angels. No one talks about them.
• 40:40
  Anyways. Some people have strong opinions about
• 40:44
  angels. Remember that one person said to us when
• 40:49
  we were at a bar once, Ben? No. Just came up
• 40:52
  to you and was like, you can't trust, don't ever
• 40:54
  trust an angel and just walked away. How do I
• 40:58
  not remember this? It was in Eau Claire after
• 41:00
  the film festival. Oh. Remember that? I don't
• 41:04
  know. Was this at the after party for the film
• 41:07
  festival? Yeah, yeah. Oh, that's probably why.
• 41:11
  Wait, wait. You didn't explain why. I mean, we
• 41:13
  went up and we went up and talked to the person
• 41:16
  afterwards and it's just Was this the person's
• 41:20
  name was Was this bleeped? Yes, it was bleeped.
• 41:25
  Well, you know, I wasn't thinking it was bleeped.
• 41:29
  I wasn't thinking it was bleeped. My first thought
• 41:33
  is, what are you named after? Angel? Angel. Yeah,
• 41:40
  is he saying... You don't need to look at your
• 41:42
  notes for that. You know... Take off one letter
• 41:47
  of your name. It's an angel. I can't be trusted.
• 41:52
  You got these mysterious papers. Oh, my God.
• 41:55
  The angels are conspiring. Oh, Lord. Anyways,
• 42:01
  but this this topic. No, I didn't even say what
• 42:03
  I was going to say. OK, I was going to say people
• 42:06
  who can't get past like demons, angels, humans.
• 42:10
  I've heard before that people think like why
• 42:14
  if you are buried, you know, in whatever cemetery.
• 42:19
  wouldn't you want to like visit yourself or like
• 42:21
  see who's paying respects to you like on the
• 42:24
  anniversary of your death like people think like
• 42:26
  spirits come back to check in on their grave
• 42:28
  and make sure it's like people care about them
• 42:31
  it's not vandalized that sounds like more of
• 42:35
  a stretch than um some of the other stuff to
• 42:38
  me but i know that i just want to get it out
• 42:40
  that people do think that um well i think the
• 42:44
  point being is we all think cemeteries can be
• 42:46
  haunted yeah But should locations be retired?
• 42:54
  What's our final takeaways as we roll into getting
• 42:57
  back on track? In an ideal world, I think the
• 43:02
  idea of retiring a location to let the energies,
• 43:08
  the entities, the spirits be from having many,
• 43:13
  many years of disturbance finally rest, take
• 43:17
  some time for themselves. figure out what's beyond
• 43:21
  the afterlife would be, in an ideal world, great.
• 43:26
  But also at the same time, like you brought up,
• 43:29
  without people like paranormal investigators,
• 43:33
  historians, other people who look at properties
• 43:35
  and unfortunately disturbing those entities,
• 43:39
  how are they ever going to move on, get their
• 43:44
  stories told? Those sorts of things. So there's
• 43:48
  a very fine line, unfortunately, to walk. And
• 43:51
  also, like we talked about, there's the business
• 43:53
  aspect of it. Unfortunately, popular locations
• 43:58
  are never going to actually close. Because it's
• 44:04
  a trickle -down effect. I love what you said,
• 44:09
  because I think you nailed... like the the perfect
• 44:13
  business name that we can perhaps uh pursue next
• 44:17
  um beyond the afterlife the office of uh the
• 44:24
  paranormal office of retirement services where
• 44:28
  we do consulting for haunted locations to uh
• 44:31
  figure out the best and most cost effective way
• 44:35
  to retire a location while still bringing in
• 44:37
  profit And I need to check to see if someone
• 44:40
  already took the LLC of this, but the domain
• 44:43
  is available for a penny. You're already looking
• 44:47
  it up. Before this episode airs, I will have
• 44:52
  purchased this domain beyond the afterlife. And
• 44:56
  if we want to pursue this as a business venture,
• 44:59
  perhaps. Send us a message. Okay, I think that's
• 45:09
  a good way to end this. Yeah, we talked a lot
• 45:13
  more about this in so many different directions
• 45:16
  than I expected, so I feel like we covered a
• 45:20
  lot. Alright, well, I think we are, in terms
• 45:26
  of tangents, cursed to repeat that next week.
• 45:30
  Wink wink, nod nod. See you next week for a mysterious
• 45:34
  topic that Angela may... Or may not be taking
• 45:38
  notes on. On mysterious papers. See you everyone.
• 45:44
  Peace out.