Latest / Revealing Wholeness with Dr.Troy / Tom Stewart's Journey Through Pain and Healing...

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Tom Stewart's Journey Through Pain and Healing... · Revealing Wholeness with Dr.Troy

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: You're now listening to Words of Radiance with doctor Troy Munson.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Hello and welcome.
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: I'm doctor Troy Munson and this is an interview I've
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: been waiting to do for a long time. And I've
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: known Tom for now a couple of years, and we've
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: we've been through a lot together.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: We've experienced a lot together.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: He obviously has been through a bunch in his lifetime
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: and I want to let him kind of tell his story,
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: and so let's let's dive into it.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: Tom, you want to introduce yourself, Yes, thank you so
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: much for having me. I'm Thomas Gregory Stewart and we're
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: here to really dive into a tough story. People go
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: through a lot of things in their life, and you have.
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: You've gone through your share, and we'd like to say
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: that you don't have to do any more of that.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: But I don't know what God has for you, but we're.
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: Gonna find out as time unfolds. But for you, let's
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: start kind of where me it all began.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: Where'd you grow up? If you want to divulge that, sure,
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: I grew up in Dashpoint, Washington. It was a beautiful
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: house on the outside half acre lot of overlooking Puget Sound.
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: I would say, inside it was an insane asynd. No
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: friends were ever allowed over. My mom was mentally unstable.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: My dad was an absent workaholic. For the most part,
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: we were loved for basically what we could do, not
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: who we were as people, and so we were starving
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: for the right kind of love and attention. As it
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: turns out, it was an ideal home setting for a
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: pedophile to come in and sexually abuse Matt and I.
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: Our neighbor Bruce Phelps, who lived down the hill. I
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: met him when I was six or so he was sixteen.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: We were involved in boy Scouts and he began grooming
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: me by playing games and just various activities. He pretty
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: much earned my parents' trust. He was, I believe, the
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: only person that was ever allowed in our house except
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: for an occasional relative, so he really had the trust
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: of my mom. In particular, my mom was dominant, and
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: there was severe consequences to say no to my mom
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: were we had our mouths washed out with laundry soap,
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: and we were locked out of the house, no dinner.
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: I would say, you know, there was a tremendous amount
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: of verbal and emotional abuse in particular for my mom,
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: my dad was absent most of the time.
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: If I made any idea why she would do that,
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: I mean, was there a lot of pain in her
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: own childhood.
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: So both my parents parents were only children, and I
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: would not recommend that's kind of a job, but not
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: recommend having an only child. But you know, honestly, they
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: both had traumatic events in their lives when they were
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: about thirteen, I think they were teenagers and my mom's
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: mother died and she had a very strict dad. And
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: then my dad his mom was mentally ill and she
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: was admitted to Western State when he was about thirteen.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: So I think their lives were kind of defined by
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: that traumatic moment in their life and for whatever reason.
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: And also according to my dad, my mom kind of
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: went crazy after she had USA. That she was, you know,
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: fairly normal, she was a nurse and fairly normal before childbirth,
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: but childbirth seemed to send her into a tailspin. Wow.
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: And at this point, so we have a dad not
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: there kind of and a mom doing all the raising. Yes,
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: And so then Bruce comes along, I believe, yes. And
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: so you were in boy Scouts from one time on,
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: so initially, you know, I was in Cub Scouts. That's
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: when I was and it's called it.
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: You know, Bruce was part of the boy Scout troupe
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: at the time actually, so he was helping out with
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: cup Scouts and it's called a den chief. And so yeah,
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: from the age of about eight, when I was in
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: Cub Scouts, that's when the abuse began. And without you know,
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: being too graphic, you know, that was pretty much you know,
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: when my child when you know, I was losing my childhood,
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: you know, because of Bruce. So it started when I
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: was about eight, you know, the sexual abuse, and then
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: when I was eleven, I joined Boy Scouts. Bruce, you know,
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: promised to take me all the way to Eagle Scout,
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: you know the merit badges that we earned, you know, fishing, swimming, camping.
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: You know, I was sexually abused multiple times, you know,
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: for each one of those merit badges. It was like
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: that was that was the cost of earning that merit badge.
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: And it's interesting. My parents were, especially my mom, were
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: super protective, but they just it was right underneath their nose.
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: They had no idea. I mean, there were times that
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: we were sexually abused. Well in the basement of our
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: parents' house with their parents upstairs. And it was that.
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: I mean, he was, you know, that good at hiding
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: things and basically, you know, he said he would kill us.
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: He would kill me. You know this more emotional. They
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: thought doing it this way, he would kill my family
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: if I ever told anyone. So I think we were conditioned.
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: You didn't say no to authority because of my mom. Sure,
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: so you know, you wouldn't dare say no to a
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: boy Scout leader. And boy Scouts is very unique, and
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: I think because my dad was kind of absent. My
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: dad was an Eagle Scout, but he was not really
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: part of the activities because he was at work and
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: had a really difficult time dealing with my mom. So
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: Bruce kind of became a father figure, even though kind
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: of like an older brother because he was only ten
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: years older, but really a father figure in some ways.
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: And so it becomes very dangerous. You know. That's one
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: of the biggest dangers of Boy Scouts is Scout masters
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: are like God, and especially for boys that don't have,
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: you know, a male role model, they really and because
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: boy Scouts is year round, I mean, it's the most
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: intensive of you know, non school activity there is sure.
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: And so you're with your scout master a lot, especially
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: in boy scouts, you know, going on campouts, and you're
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: out in the woods and you're in the middle of nowhere,
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: and so things can get very dangerous, very fast. And
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: so you know, with Bruce and I was actually abused
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: at gunpoint, you know, at times, and you know, once
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: again he said he would kill my family and that
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: was enough of a threat. Sure, you know, of course,
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: and we've been conditioned. The ironic thing is that Matt
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: and I are you know, pretty big. A met's like
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: six two six three metts six seven, and we were
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: a lot bigger than Bruce. Yeah, but and my mom too.
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: But it's that mind control. If they started, if they
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: started early enough, then you're just you're brainwashed. Sure, and
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: so that's that's how he kind of reeled us in. Anyway,
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: So I was sodomized for about four years from the
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: ages about fourteen to eighteen. But it's interesting the way,
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: you know, and I will say, the way God protected me.
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: I know that sounds like it's an oxymoron, but you know,
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: first of all, my parents took us to the local
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: Methodist church every Sunday, which is crazy because you know,
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: my mom was mentally unstable and my dad was absent.
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: But it was that faith in God that saved my
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: life amidst all this hypocrisy and abuse. And then we
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: also had the next door neighbors, the Hesse family. Virgil
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: was my best friend, and he was I would say autistic,
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: but we kind of you know, bonded, and they were
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: really I mean, they were fairly pretty normal family. Well
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: most families were normal compared to mine. They were really
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: a refuge away from the abuse. So, you know, and
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: I believe Genesis fifty twenty is really one of the
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: key verses in my life where Joseph tells his brothers,
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: you intended to harm me, but God intended it for good,
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: to do what is now being done, the saving of
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: many lives. I believe, you know, God does allow evil,
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: but you know he will turn it into good. So
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: and he put things around me to protect me. You know,
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: I was a very gifted athlete and student. No pride intended,
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: you know, if I didn't have that, you know, school
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: was was safe. Yes, it was a harbor away from
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: you know, my mom and Bruce, and so I would
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: spend as much time as I could at school, and boy,
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: if I didn't have that, and honestly, if I didn't
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: have a brother, if I had been an only child,
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: you know, I might not have endured it. Yeah, my
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: brother and I didn't talk a lot about you know,
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: the abuse, but you know, we still things together, and
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: it was kind of a you know, a deflection. Miraculously,
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: you know, I did graduate Cobal Victorian and you know
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: I did reach Eagle Scout, which was crazy. Course Bruce
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: helped me on an eagle project. You know, it's a
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: two IgE sword. But God really put you know, people
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: around me like the Hess family and and you know,
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: at such a young age, I was really in an
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: impossible situation for a boy because I was wedged in
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: between my mom and Bruce. It's like there's no way out,
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: and I couldn't tell anybody because you know, nobody would
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: would believe me. Probably, So tell me about how's it end?
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: How does he finally stop and what happens to Matt?
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: I mean really with Bruce, we kind of did have
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: one final kind of altercation. I think there was one
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: time when I was like a senior in high school
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: that I think I finally said, you know, enough was enough.
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: I think the gun is really what kept me in check,
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: you know, all those years in the threat of killing
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: my family, and I think it was just going off
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: to college. Yeah, I don't know how many other boys,
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: you know, he abused. Probably at least ten, I don't know,
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: but it could be more than that. So he, you know,
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: sadly was involved with other boys. So I think going
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: off to college kind of ended it for Bruce. I
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: might I'll probably mentioned later I met I did meet
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: him one last time later. But I think for Matt
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: it's been a lot harder because he remembers every little thing,
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: and God's really gifted me with being able to block
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: a lot of the abuse. I mean I remember a lot,
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: but nothing like my I mean, he will bring up
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: things like my dad went on a boy scout outing
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: with Bruce, was in the same cabin with us. I
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: have no recollection of that. And then Bruce would take, oh,
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: he would take the boys, you know, out one by
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: one into the woods, you know, in the middle of
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: the night, and then he would show up for breakfast.
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: And my dad knew that he was gone in the
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: middle of the night and had just had no idea
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: that that's what was going on. I guess, in fairness,
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: it was a different time, you know, back in the seventies,
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: and it just wasn't you know, all this boy scout
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: stuff hadn't come to light in the Catholic Church. And
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: so I'm not gonna, you know, fault my dad for that,
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: but they were just very unaware. Sure, but Matt would
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: you know, bring something up, and I'd have, you know,
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: Bruce took sorry pictures of us, you know, like those
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: old Polari cameras of us naked, and Matt would bring
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: that up, and I had no recollection of that. I mean,
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: I just I hadn't remembered that and then and then
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: I kind of did. But so I think for Matt
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: it's been probably probably a harder road because he remembers
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: every little thing. And and you know, the lawsuit, I
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: guess we'll get into that, but the lawsuit was healing,
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: you know, for both both of us. But that didn't
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: happen for many years later, right, So I guess I
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: can backtrack a little bit. But so after high school,
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: I had a summer job. I had a chemical factory
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: in Tacoma, and I was working with panachlorathenol and really
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: toxic chemical. And I had been sick that summer and
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: I'd had night sweats, and you know, I hadn't thought
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: too much about it. And then before I went out
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: to college, I told my mom that, you know, Bruce
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: had actually abused us for the first time. I told
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: my mom that he has actually abused us for a
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: deck and she didn't believe me. And you told her
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: when when I was eighteen going off to college. Yes,
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: I'm sure, and she didn't believe me. And so I mean,
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: I I was devastated, but I kind of expected that
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: from her, you know, because she would you know, she
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: couldn't imagine. I think it's she couldn't imagine Bruce could
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: do that. But that's like the ultimate failure for a
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: parent to, you know, admit to yourself that you allowed.
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: It's a lot of guilt, a lot of guilt that
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: you allowed that to happen. And I mean, I don't
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: really fault them for that. Bruce was. I mean, these
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: pedophiles are evil geniuses if they could just use their
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: genius for good, but they are the master they know,
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: you know, and I'd say it it's like a wolf
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: circling sheep, and the wolf knows that the weakest sheep
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: to pray on. And they're they're brilliant at, you know,
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: finding the right family situation where you have and ideally
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: I mean the perfect situation sadly for them as a
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: dominant mom and an absent dad, and so they just
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: kind of insert themselves. Wonder if it's instinctual they really
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: really know, they must really know, Yeah, and you know
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: he probably was abused as a boy. I don't know.
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: I think my wife and I have talked about how
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: could you know if you were abused as a boy,
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: how could you perpetuate that? You know, kind of a
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: generational curse if you believe in that, which I do.
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: And so anyway, and then my dad went to his
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: grave pretty much not completely believing the abuse when the
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: book came out and he kind of read it and
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: just he said, Bruce, Bruce was a nice guy. And
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: so that's that's a tough pill to swallow. But I
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: think these pedophiles they know instinctually that if you know,
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: certain boys in this case, if they tell their parents,
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: they're not going to believe them. They just know those
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: family dynamics somehow, So I like to say. You know,
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: one of the things is, you know, if your kids
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: come to you and tell you things like this, you
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: had better believe them, yeah, and take it seriously and act.
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: And because that's exactly you know what in our case,
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: our parents didn't believe us. So, you know, I went
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: off to college and I and then fall quarter of
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: my sophomore year, I was wrestling with the friend in
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: my dorm room and I hurt my rib just bad enough,
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: and I went to the doctor and they found that
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: I had Hodgkin's disease lived no cancer miraculously. Obviously it
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: was God's timing. You know. They said if I waited
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: a month or hurt another part of my body because
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: the cancer was in my chest, that I would have died.
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: And they feel that partly, you know, the cancer was
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: caused from working with panachlorphino, and you know, there may
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: have been other factors too, but I think that was,
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: you know, one of the biggest ones. And so I
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: went through months of radiation and that was the time
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: that you know, God really gave me. Jeremiah twenty nine
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: to eleven. I know the plans I have for you,
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: not to harm you, but to prosper you to give
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: you hope in a future, and that God had something
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: else for me, because I could have easily died, you know,
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: during college. And then later that year later, I was
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: taking a final test and blanked and they found out
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: my thigh rate had gotten dangerously low from radiation scattered
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: and I almost died again. But miraculously I graduated, you know,
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: and you know, from engineering college. You know, God's really
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: shown me that thorns can be valuable in your life too,
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: and that I finally made amends with my mom. And
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: for the most part, it didn't end real well when
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: she died, but that was partly because she was you know,
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: mentally ill and my parents are going through a divorce
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: at that time. But I really tried to think back
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: and you know, thank God for my mom, which is
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: pretty crazy, but part of that is she really pushed
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: me to be the best, and you know, I would
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: have never made it through engineering school being so sick.
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: You know, there was times, I mean I would throw
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: up in the chemistry lab or I mean not try to,
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: or the bathroom or and you know, one night I'd
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: get like, you know, five hours sleep because I was studying,
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: and the next night I was spent and would have to.
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: So I think the doctor said I was one of
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: the few ever. And I'm not taking any credit for me,
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: but being that sick making it through engineering school, it's
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: kind of ironic. I stayed at school because I didn't
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: want to go home and be with my mom, and
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: so it was that was it was kind of good
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: and bad. So I mean for a lot of people,
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: home is, you know, a wonderful place. For me, it's
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: always been a war zone. It's the last place, you
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: know that I wanted to be for the most part,
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: and I'd be in the basement studying and I know,
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: anything to kind of be away from my mom. But
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: I really came to grips with that God does allow
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: thorns for a reason. There is purpose in our pain,
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: and that it's meant for us to grow. And I
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: believe that you know the people that God used the most,
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: and you see it in the Bible, job Paul Joseph
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: went through a lot of trials, yes, and that he's
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: going to hone. He's going to hone you. And I
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: guess some of us need more honing than others. So
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: I guess I need a lot of honing so then
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: you know, after college, then I am you know, I
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: joined Boweing as a chemical engineer and doing research on
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: eliminating carcinogens. And you know, only God could do that
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: because that's you know, how I got sick, and so
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: I'm able to help others at Boeing by eliminating carcinogens.
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: So you know, once again it's Genesis fifty twenty. You know,
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: God turned evil into good with you know, Joseph and
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: his brothers, and so it's it's crazy the way God
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: works that way. It's just like, isn't it it is?
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: He's amazing, yes, And so okay, so when we've been
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: at Boeing and we're doing this stuff, when does all
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: of a sudden this push come to have a court
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: case and to bring to light.
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: All of this this stuff. This is like perfectly scripted
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: by God. So after you know, I was married to
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: my first one, and you know it was a very
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: dysfunctional marriage. You know, she was an abuse victim too,
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: but you know I had three beautiful children, Brian, Benny,
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: and Becca. Becca was I don't know, it's interesting doing
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: it this way. It's like emotional. It's like when I
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: get up and talk to people. It's emotional, but there's
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: something about this. You know, Becca was the first to
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: a girl in one hundred years, and she was like
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: a princess. And I don't think she walked until she
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: was like four. I mean I carried her everywhere. And
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: and you know, Brian and Bennie, I think I think
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: it's because it was a miracle I survived in my
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: childhood and then I cancer and I came within a
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: whisker of having chemo, which means no children. And so
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: I think just having children was such a miracle that
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: you know, I was and my first wife and I
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: weren't that close, and so I was overly attacked. You know,
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: it's easy to become overly attached to your children and
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: they can become idols, honestly. And God speaks to me
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: a lot through the you know, story of Abraham and
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: boy Isaac was going to be you know, it was
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: almost going to become an idol for Abraham because of
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: having Isaac at such an old age, and you know,
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: and God wanted, you know, tested Abraham by sacrificing Isaac.
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: And so I think that's because of what I went
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: through and just being able to have children was such
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: a miracle that, you know, I was overly attached to
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: them and and even with Brian and Benny, I was
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: their Cup Scout and Boy Scout leader. There is probably
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: not a person on the planet that would go back
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: into Boy Scouts or have their children go back into
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts with what I went through
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: as a boy. But I believe, you know, I believe
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: on the Boy Scout. I mean still to this day.
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: I believe in the program. It's just they have not
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: protected the boys. And now I know it's called I
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: don't know what it's called Scouts, and there's girls, but
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: back then it was just boys, and so I was
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: their leader. And then so in two thousand and one,
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: my first wife wanted a divorce, so it was it
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: was devastating. She was having a relationship with a coworker
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: and that actually still works for me. And I'll talk
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: about forgiveness. If you don't have forgiveness in my story,
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: you have no chance. And you've not listened to well enough.
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: So so yes, I you know, we went through this
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: horrific divorce. I received a you know, domestic violence protection order,
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: and there was allegations that I had sexually abused back
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: of because I was sexually abused as a boy, and
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: those allegations were later unfounded and we went through CPS.
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: And you know, Becka was only three or four at
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: the time. The boys were like eleven and thirteen, and
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: they were at the worst possible ages. There is no
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: good age for kids to go through divorce, but preteen
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: is just even when it's you know, an amicable divorce,
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: if there is such a thing, but when it's really nasty,
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: you know, they they just couldn't cope. And so anyway,
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: so yeah, at the beginning, you know, of the divorce,
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: I was forced out of the house. And I really
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: like versus Corinthian's four, you know, where it says we
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: are hard pressed on every side, but not crushed, perplexed
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: but not in despair, persecuted but not abandoned, struck down
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: but not destroyed. And that's another verse that I've really
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: clung to that I've really been struck down a lot
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: in my life. I do believe God, you know, God
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: allowed it for a reason. But you know, ultimately he
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: will be victorious if we stay the course. And I
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: think for me, you know, I would really encourage people
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: not to run from God when heard things come that
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: we need to run to God, as hard as that is,
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: that there's just things we're not going to understand. Because
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: He's God, His ways are not our ways. And I
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: think for me it's been I've been very blessed. It's
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: been very concrete, you know, like my cancer. I mean,
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: you know, people wouldn't you know, understand necessarily why did
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: I Why did this happen to me? For me, I
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: mean it was really clear cut because I was able
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: to eliminate personations of boneing. I mean, it doesn't happen
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: that way very often. And maybe he knows I'm a
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: slow engineer, and so he's going to be very direct
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: with me. And so I So after the divorce with
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: my first wife, I did get remarried fairly quickly. You know.
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: We had a blended family, and it was really really hard.
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: She had three girls and the son from a previous marriage,
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: and you know, I had three kids, and it was
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: really challenging. And so about that time that I got remarried, Matt,
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: you know, called and want to take on the boy
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: Scouts read about Catholic Church abuse victims and going after
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: the Catholic Church and for me, it was making the
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: Boy Scouts safer. I think that was the case with
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: Matt in part that he, you know, had tremendous anger
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: toward Bruce. And I'm not going to fault him for that,
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: that's not really my you know thing, but you know,
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: we had there was another man that wanted to join
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: the lawsuit, and I just think he had so much anger.
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: And the sad thing is they the abuse victims are
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: kind of it's like we're the bad guys and we're
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: put on trial, and so that's why people don't come forward.
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: But Matt and I kind of have this Stuart swagger,
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: I guess, And I guess that's a good thing about
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: my parents. I mean, no meant nothing to them. It
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: was kind of like a temporary answer until you get
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: to yes. And they had this push, not in the
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: right way sometimes, but that you know, we could take
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: on anything. So I guess I guess we had some
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: of that. So we decided to you know, take on
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: the Boy Scouts, and that was really Matt's lead. These
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: emotions are coming from you know. Really, I'm grateful to
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: Matt because he saved my life. I mean, I would
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: have broken my silence eventually, but you know he was
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: really the push and you know he found the lawyer
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: and you know, we first met with them in October
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: two thousand and two, and you know, they believed our story.
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: Of course, there's going to be monetary gain potentially, but
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: these lawyers, I think we're pretty unique because they just
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: defended sexual abuse victims for the most part. So I
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: think they did have a heart, you know, as much
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: as lawyers can. Way he edit that, but so they
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: the slogan in their office was Yesterday's children saving Tomorrow's children.
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: And I love that. And that's I realized that's why
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: Matt and I lost her childhood, is to save generations
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: in this case of Boy Scouts to come. And they
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: said this would be David and Goliath, and we were
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: David and Boy Scouts were Goliath. It's like taking on
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: Boeing or you know, Boy Scouts is a huge It's
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: not this nonprofit you know, small nonprofit organization people think
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: it is. I mean, they're worth you know, b you know,
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: billions with with these Boy Scout camps. And so they
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: had these you know, really high powered lawyers you know
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: against us, and so we were in these eight hour depositions.
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: The lead lawyer was the female and asking these horrific questions,
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: and guy really gave us peace. And they brought in
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: Bruce across the table to intimidate us, you know, and
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: then these Boy Scout executives and and that's why people
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: don't come forward because it wasn't against Bruce, it was
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: against the organization, yes, and so they brought him in
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: as an intimidation. Yes, he was included, but he never
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: went to jail. You know, he was out, you know,
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: a lot of money. But you know, under oath he
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: admitted to you know, abusing us. We were actually on
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: CBSC meeting news with Katie Carrick and she didn't interview us,
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: but and you know, they showed his clip and you know,
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: he admitted on national TV, you know that he abused us. So,
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: I mean, he was guilty. It's just because of the
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: statute of limitations and whatnot, it gets complicated anyway. So
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: then you know, our case went before the Washington State
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: Supreme Court. Only one in five hundred cases goes before
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: the Washington State Supreme Court, and they ruled that the
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: Boy Scout Boy Scouts would have to hand over these
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: perversion files. One hundred years of these secret files stayed
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: hidden from the American public on pedophiles, and they keep them, Yes,
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: I know they keep them. Isn't that crazy? It is?
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: And there was a book called Scouts Honor that was
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: written about thirty years ago, that the first real book,
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: and they talked about pedophile rings and the Boy Scouts.
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: They were associated with Sorry nambla North American Man Boy
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: Lovers Association and just some real you know, dark stuff,
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: and but the pedophiles were from within. The national head
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: of the Youth Protection Training was put in went to prison.
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: I mean he was in charge of the whole program
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: to protect boys in the Boy Scouts, and he was
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: you know, he was the number one guy, Douglas Smith,
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: that's what that was his name. So the Boy Scouts
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: had to hand over the files and they were, you know, horrific.
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: So our lawyers went through them all, categorized them all,
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: and then they had to go back to the Boy Scouts. Unfortunately,
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: when we settled in March of two thousand and seven,
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: but we wouldn't settle unless we could tell our stories,
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: so we wouldn't allow a gag order. You know. It
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: was for a very modest amount, and you know, it
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: wasn't about the money. They didn't want to go to
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: trial because of you know, Washington State of Washington. It's
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: it's complicated going to trial. And honestly, my family was
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: really my family was really struggling, you know, the boys
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: were really struggling with drugs, you know, through all this,
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: and I didn't want to have this media circus. And
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: because you know, this was the biggest what approximate year,
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: So that was two thousand and seven, So the divorce
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: was going on at one well actually, yes, I had
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: been I was remarried. Yeah, but they're still reeling from
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: all that, trying to recover. They're in drugs. And yes,
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: now this and now the you know, biggest lawsuit ever
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: filed against the boy Scouts, and so who's not going
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: to know all our friends. Yes, so we decided that,
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: you know, it was better to settle out of court.
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: And then because of our lawsuit. There was one more
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: lawsuit in Oregon and the organst and because of you know,
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: our lawsuit, the Oregon State Supreme Court ruled in twenty
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: twelve that twenty years of the perversion files would be
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: released in the American public and that is in twenty
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: years twenty years duration. Oh okay, so they did release those, yes,
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: nineteen sixty five to nineteen eighty five, I believe, And
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: so that was the first time ever that they would
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: be released to the American public, I believe. Sadly, the
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: files from ninety and I think nineteen ninety one to
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: present are still sealed. There's been a lot of battle,
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: you know, battles to get those unsealed, but I think
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: those are still sealed. The Boy Scouts, you know, did
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: everything they could to appeal this. You know, obviously they
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: couldn't go any higher than the Washington State Supreme Court,
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: but you know, they they fought, They have fought this
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: tooth and nail because it's about image. And you know,
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: these predators were from within, and some of the most
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: prolific predators probably would be used up to two hundred boys.
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: They'll say, well, elstistically, and it may be true. Statistically,
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: it's less than one percent of the volunteers that are pedophiles.
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: But you know the number of boys that each pedophile effects,
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: and you know, one boy is too much. Yeah, and
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: because of our lawsuit, you know, much more stringent youth
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: protection training guidelines were put into place. Yeah, I mean
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: they had some, but it wasn't anything until you know,
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: our lawsuit came into play, and then and then eventually
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: this led to this class action lawsuit against the Boy
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: Scouts and almost I guess it's eighty two thousand. I
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: thought it was a little bit more than that, but
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: in the you know, ninety thousand range. But anyway, almost
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: eighty ninety thousand victims came forward in twenty twenty. And
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: that's just the tip of the iceberg. That's not boys
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: that committed suicide that are homeless, you know, I mean,
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: it has destroyed some many more boys than that. Yeah,
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: that's just the tip of the iceberg. I would have
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: never believed in all my life been that many people.
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: And that's just the tip. That's just the tip. And
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: we worked with a troop in Arkansas, a real form
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: a real famous court TV show, I think late nineties,
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: and there was a troop in Arkansas, and I actually
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: had talked with one of the moms and the scout master,
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: you know, directed one of the boys to kill his
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: family and so he's on death row and Arkansas. Matt
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: had spoken with him and that particular scout master was
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: the brother, brother in law of this lady, and he
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: lived next door and would go through the window at
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: night and abuse her sons, and then one of them
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: comitted suicide. So this is, yeah, this is far beyond,
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: you know, anything anybody could ever imagine. And I think
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: once again, Boy Scouts is unique because it's year round,
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: it's in the woods, it's out in the middle of nowhere.
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: And the joke is they call it Babysitters of America
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: and Boy Scouts of America BSA. And you know, these moms,
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: a lot of them single moms, and they're exhausted, no disrespect,
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: and they just drop their boys off and not knowing.
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: And you know, another you know thing I tell people
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: is that you absolutely have to be involved. I mean,
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: the dad has to be involved in this case. Maybe
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: moms can be too. In some sad like the Campouts.
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: You know, my wife was in Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts.
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: It's not so much the women, it's more the men.
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: But you just, you know, I mean, we all have
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: relatives we don't know that well that we probably wouldn't
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: drop our kids off at uncle who, you know, whomever's house,
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: you know, and we're talking complete strangers. And also we
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: found out that they did not do background checks consistently
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: or what would happen is and I was a scoutmaster,
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: I went through it. I know, because they're understaffed. You
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: would fill out a background check and it would sit
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: at the local office for months. And so what these
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: guys would do is they that was enough time, six
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: months whatever to come and abuse boys and then they
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: moved troops. They also would change their middle initial I
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: don't think they can do that so much anymore, but
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: it used to be they could, you know, they could
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: skirt the system, sure, because they were not. And the
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: crazy thing is, I mean, the Boy Scouts was maybe
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: one of the last organizations to do this. Everywhere else
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: you can't start until the background check is done. But
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: for some reason in Boy Scouts they would allow and
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: I know because I went through it, they would allow
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: these volunteers to start before the background check was official.
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: And so anyway, you know, it's it's crazy. You know,
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: out of all the boys you know around the world,
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: Boy Scouts, you know, probably two hundred million boys at
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: least in one hundred years. For some reason, God chose
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: Matt and I yeah, and I think it's it's and
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: I'm not trying to compare myself to Christ by any means,
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: but there has to be you know, we had to
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: lose our childhood for there to be changed. Sure, and
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: it's just like you know, before way stop, you know,
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: somebody gets killed. Sadly, there's you know a bunch of
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: accidents at one light and they are at one you know,
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: four way stop and they have to put in a light. Yeah,
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: you know, unfortunately it takes tragedy. And you know, I
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: think it's a parallel. You know, Christ had to go through,
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: you know what he went through to save the world.
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: And I'm not comparing myself to him at all, but
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: in this case, you know, Matt and I had to
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: lose our childhood for there to be changed. And this
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: boy and then the following the Oregon lawsuit and you know,
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: sadly somebody had to lose their childhood there to be changed.
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: But you know, it's and once again it's Genesis fifty twenty.
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: You know, God had a good plan for Bruce. Bruce
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: chose evil and God was going to turn that into good.
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: I mean, he's probably the most famous pedophile in boy
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: Scott history. And that from Dashpoint, Washington lived down. I mean,
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: you know, we were neighbors. What are the odds of that?
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: And so at this point we have a lawsuit in
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: two thousand and seven, it finally's over settled out at.
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, twenty twenty. I mean that kind of
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: comes into the present. The class action lawsuit was twenty twenty,
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: the Oregon State Supreme Court was twenty twelve. So I mean, overall,
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: I mean it's taken. You know, we first met with
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: the lawyers in two thousand and two. You've participated in
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: those two lawsuits and two no okay, but it was
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: because of our initial lawsuit that it opened it all up.
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: Yours was done when so ours was two thousand and seven,
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: it was done. When do you start writing the book? Wow,
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: so we started let me kind of, let me kind
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: of go back here. Sure. So you know, once again,
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: during this time, Brian and Bennie were really struggling. You know,
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: I still lived close in eaham Claw, but you know,
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: married to my second wife. Bennie actually came and you know,
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: lived with us, and he really saved my life. It
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: was it was a very very hard time just to
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: divorce alone. And then you add the boy scout stuff
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: and then trying to maintain my job at Boeing. I
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: kind of kid around. My job at Boeing is the
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: only thing that's besides God that's I haven't lost in
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: my life. So, but the boys are really struggling. You know, Brian,
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: you know, became a homeless drug addict, almost died. He's
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: doing fine now. Becca, it's been a very very hard road.
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: Has brainwashed her a lot, and because of the CPS stuff,
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: and so she's had to struggle with you know, she
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: doesn't remember back when she was three or four, and
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: all these false accusations. So we talked about Brian. I
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: will get to bany Becca, Sorry, how these b names.
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: My kids would say, thanks a lot that our initials
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: are bs. So, you know, Becka and I we'd be
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: very close at times, and then you know, she would
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: kind of go back to her childhood and not being
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: able to you know, remember anything, and all these unfounded allegations,
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: and so she was in a really, you know, really
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: tough spot. And I believe very much in spiritual warfare
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: that for whatever reason, there's been a tremendous battle for
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: this story. And I'm not trying to compare myself to
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: Daniel or anything like that. But you know, I do
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: believe that there's been a real battle when the enemy
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: is really you know, attacked Becca in fact, so after
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: all the CPS stuff went away, you know, about a
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: year and a half ago, you know, Becca came back
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: to me and you know, I'll get to my story
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: in the book, but you know, about when the book
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: is going to launch, you know, I believe the enemy
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: is right at the gate. And you know, Joyce Smier
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: likes to say new devil, you know, new level, new devil,
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: and God brings us up in levels and it is
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: big God, little devil, but he's still he's still there.
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: And so sadly about it. You know, a year and
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: a half ago, Becca had texted me and said that,
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: you know, she was abused as a girl and I
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: was a predator, and so it was another blow and
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: it was prophesied over me that you know, there would
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: be restoration in my life and I'll get to my
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: my lovely wife Julie, and that's what God is doing.
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: I just pray that you know, he brings my product
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: Weald daughter home someday. I think with Benny, you know,
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: Benny obviously has been the hardest. I was very close
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: with all three of my children, but parents don't like
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: to admit it, but there was always there's one child
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: you click with a little bit more, maybe just because
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: you have the same personality or whatever. And he and
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: I were really inseparable. You know. We would go together
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: to see you Brian and rehab in Montana and Oregon,
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: and he'd go along with car rides, and you know,
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: he really saved my life. Boy, these emotions are crazy,
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: you know. And he too was struggling with heroin and meth.
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: But Benny just had a way. He just I mean,
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: people wouldn't even know he was struggling per se because
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: he would always be helping others and he just had
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: that you know, huge personality. And then there was you know,
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: the last time I saw him, which was July twenty fourteen,
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: I was weeded, and he came up with a friend
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: and he said, basically, I love you, Dad, I'd be
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: dead without you. And we just really worked hard together
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: on his you know, and I worked with Brian too,
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: it was just a little different with Benny. We really
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: worked hard together and both boys are in Salvation Army
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: rehab programs and they graduated, and it's just it's so
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: I guess this message hits on so many levels, you know,
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: the drug addiction part. You know, I have one son
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: that made it, one that didn't. And if you don't
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: get away from all that, your former friends and that
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: old way of life, which is really hard if you
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: live in the same area, it's almost like you have
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: to move away, you know, because there's nothing more powerful
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: than heroin and meth. So I you know, it was
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: August eleventh, twenty fourteen, and I was at work and
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: the police department called and told me that Bennie had,
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: you know, died of a heroin overdose. The crazy thing
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: is the pastor, our pastor the day before had preached.
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: He was a chaplain, and he had preached about going
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: to people's doors and having to tell them they had
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: lost children. You know, if you'd told me that I
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: would lose many and then I'd be able to endure it,
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: I would have said, no way. But you know, it's
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: not about me, It's about God. And you know, God
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: really told me that Benny was a gift. You know,
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: everything we have is a gift. What we all deserve
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: his eternal damnation. So anything beyond. That's a gift and
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: we have to cherish every minute we have and the family.
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: You know that we have, children's, spouse and friends. And
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: I like to say, you know, don't don't ever hang
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: up the phone angry, draw up, drive off, angry. I
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: don't let your kids. You don't ever want to end
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: on a bad note, because you know, you never know
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: what's going to happen to any of us. I mean,
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: we're not guaranteed the next minute, our month, year, And
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: so I think Benny, really, I mean, it was really
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: a wake up call and that he was you know,
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: he was a gift from God. And he even our
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: children they're they're not ours to keep, They're not They're
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: from God and he can take them back, as hard
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: as that is. And you know, being on drugs, the boys,
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: you always thought maybe you'd get that phone call, you know,
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: the parents that lose children to cancer or car accidentut
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: of the blue. I mean, losing Bennie was excruciating, but
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: there there is harder ways to lose children because I
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: kind of, you know, I knew that that might happen
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: to Brian or Bennie, but you know, I talked to
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: a couple of moms at the funeral. There was two
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: boys in particular, there was supernaturally released from heroin addiction
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: that night. Would I have wanted to lose Benny for
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: the two I think give you know, had that happen
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: to them, you know that that's that's a hard trade off.
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: But you know, his death really helped a lot of
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: a lot of people. I think it was a two
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: edged sword for Brian. I think initially Brian didn't want
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: to live. There's nothing harder than losing a sibling at
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: that age before he'd become a parent. I mean, losing
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: a child, I think is the hardest thing. But but
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: I think ultimately Brian realized, you know, he had a
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: higher calling and that he you know, obviously had to
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: get off drugs. So I think, you know, Benny's death
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: and it really gave me the call of my life,
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: which is Isaiah sixty one, to bind up the broken hearted,
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: proclaim freedom for the captives, released from darkness for the prisoners,
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: and to bestow on them accrown of beauty instead of ashes.
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: And that really is the call of my life. With
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: all the trials I've been through that you know, I
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: can walk in other people's shoes because I've been through
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: a lot of different trials. Not the hardest life ever
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: by any means, but unique. There was a man in Pennsylvania,
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: Cliff Harlow said, and I'll get to that, but you
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: know that we've been able to help and through the book.
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: So the crazy thing too, is that since Bennie's death,
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: God's given me all these prophecies and these he speaks
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: to me through numbers, because I'm a strange engineer, as
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: all engineers are, and so what better way to speak
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: to me than through numbers. It's unique because it's all
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: through Benny. Even your your name, Troy Munson, t is twenty,
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: Emma's thirteen twenty and thirteen thirty three. That was the
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: age of Christ died and Benny died an eight eleven fourteen.
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: Those three numbers out to thirty three. It's endless. So
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: Brian calls it the beautiful Mind, and Russell Crowe, I
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: don't think that was a compliment. But anyway, so and
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: you know, this Pastor prophesied over me that that I would,
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: you know, God would take me by a way that
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: I had never imagined and and that I misunderstood because
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: I deal on this number Grid and so, and we
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: actually go to his church sit atyl Church, and he's
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: very prophetic, and so I had not met him maybe once,
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: but he, you know, as they say, read my mail,
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: and I mean he's completely more or less a complete stranger,
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: and he completely told me my whole life, as prophets do.
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: And so I think, so since Benny's death, it's been
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: it's been really, really, really hard. But I think, you know,
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: we talked a little bit and we'll talk more about
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: some of the things that I face now. And you know,
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: grief is definitely not slipping. I've never really struggled with
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: deep depression. I mean, when you lose a child, of
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: course you're going to go through some sort of depression.
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: But I also think that's what the enemy wants, even
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: though it's easier said than done, that we have to
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: pull ourselves up and we really have to, you know,
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: lean into God and that there is a plan for
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: all this and sometimes it's just not going to be
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: very pleasant. But there's purpose in our pain, you know,
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: Rick Warren, purpose driven life. Our greatest ministry comes from
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: our greatest hurt, and so all of this is birth,
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: you know, out of losing Benny. You know, my wife
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: and I really have a heart for the homeless and
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: broken hearted, you know, because we've been we've been there.
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: I mean, we haven't been homeless per se, but close. Yeah,
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: my boys are homeless, you know, and so and then
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: God never wastes a hurt. And I know that it's
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: really really hard for people to listen to but I
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: do believe it with all my heart. And sometimes it
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: takes years, decades. His timing is not our timing. We
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: are very impatient, and you know, five years to him,
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: you know, five years to us is like a second
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: to him. I think you know, through Bennie's death, it's
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: been because God speaks to me this way. It's very comforting,
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: but it's also it's very hard because it makes me,
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: you know, miss Bennie that much more. You know, I
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: drive his car, and you know, I really God really
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: speaks to me very clearly. Sometimes of course I miss
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: God and I'm nothing. I'm just your average Joe, average Tom.
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: I am nothing. There's nothing special about me. Maybe the numbers.
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: But you know, He talks to all of us in
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: different ways. We just need to be still and be
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: quiet in this ridiculously noisy society being pinged constantly with
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: our phone and computers, and you know, I find that,
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: you know, in the quiet times, that's when God really
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: speaks to me. So after, you know, after Benny's death,
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: so I along, you know, along all that, my second
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: wife had an affair and so she divorced me, and
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: so I got remarried the third time, and that was
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: twenty fourteen. That was actually right around when Benny died.
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: So it was once again a very very tumultuous time.
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: You know, my third wife was bipolar, and it was
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: very very challenging. I you know, had been around mental
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: illness my whole life, from the female side, and but
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: I you know, have a real heart for that. And honestly,
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: looking back, my third wife was a distraction after losing
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: many I believe in some ways God used that if
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: I had been alone, you know back you know, wasn't
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: speaking to me and Brian was having problems, and if
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: I had been alone with all that, we'd find out
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: how powerful God is. And I like to say, you know,
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: sometimes God's going to strip it all away, so that's
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: just you and him, so that we really lean on him.
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: And I wish it were different, but so you know,
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: believe it or not. You know, after I got remarried,
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: then another blended family. And so at the time my
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: third wife and I, she had never written a book,
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: and so she actually was the ghostwriter for the first
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: version of my book, called The Broken Scout, that came
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: out in twenty seventeen. You know, it was a very
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: tumultuous time because of her up and down, you know, emotions,
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: and but you know, we thought that was that was it.
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: There was a filmmaker and Hollywood accepted my life story,
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: and but it just wasn't meant to be. And to
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: be completely honest, it's easy to get caught up in
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: the glitter and potential fame of all this. And God
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: had to really humble me. And so I like to
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: say he sent me off into the Everett Wilderness. And
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: we lived in Bonnie Lake, and I was working in
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: Evart at the time, and I was, you know, it
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: was too far to drive to Everett, so I was
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: staying in these little holes in the walls and amidst
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: this story coming out and Icon Media picked it up
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: and they did Miracles from Heaven and probably fifty New
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: York Times bestselling authors, and it just wasn't God's time.
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: I think I was too caught up and meeting Rick
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: Warren and all that, and partly and so I really
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: so I was staying And it is a New York
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: Times bestseller, just my journey, and once again it's kind
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: of Abraham. He was just leading me around from little
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: room to a little room. I stayed in believe it
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: or not, I stayed in a tent in a hoarder's basement.
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: God was taking me back to my childhood with kind
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: of combining boy scouts in the tent and my mom
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: was a hoarder, and he was taking me back to
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: set me free. I believe that you have to be
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: taken back sometimes to those moments in time in the
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: past where you got stuck. My parents got stuck at
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: age thirteen when you know, my dad's mom, my grandma,
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: went to Western State, and my mom's you know, mom
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: died my grandma. I think we can easily get stuck.
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: And it's definitely true of drug abuse. You get duck,
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: you know, at a moment in time in your childhood,
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: and you don't ever get beyond that some tragic accident
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: or so. I think he was taking me back to
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: different spots to set me free. And then I was
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: so I was kind of bouncing around. I mean, it's
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: hard to make this stuff up, and some of this
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: is in the book. So eventually The Broken Scout was rewritten.
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: In a ghost writer and so the Curse never released.
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: No, it was, it was. And I was working with
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: the producer of Doctor Phil sixteen minutes Good Morning America.
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: I mean, not that that matters, but if that helps
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: get the story out and help others, and you know,
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: and it's not about being famous, and I had to
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: be reminded of that many many times. It's about helping others.
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: And if God just wants me to share with groups
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: of five or ten, great, he wants me in a
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: church of three thousand, great, And you know, does he
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: want us helping a few people at a deep level
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: or does he want us to help thousands at a
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: superficial level. Because there's nothing more frustrating than what if
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: fifty people in a big church come up to you
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: and you're not prepared to help? So, yeah, I was.
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: I was staying in some incredibly interesting spots and in
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: this one lady in this apartment in Lynnwood, complete stranger.
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: I went in there and because the place I was
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: staying before, God said basically, it's time to move on,
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: And which is kind of interesting because I'm a creature
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: of habit and I have a lot of sleeping issues
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: from the abuse as a child, so you know, getting
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: used to new sleeping arrangements is not easy for me.
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: I have a whole, you know, routine. And so this
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: lady complete stranger, she had purple hair, and I was
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: just like and she was a hoarder, and I was
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: just like, Okay, Lord, I'm gonna need some help here
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: if you really want me to stay here. And and
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: so God gives me signs and sets of three. So
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: the first sign was Dick's Drive in that was a
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: favorite spot with Benny, and I was close by, and okay,
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: that's that would be considered a coincidence. The second she
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: put down a green four leaf clover on my ministry card.
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: I have a green four leaf clover tattoo that Brian
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: had designed, and of course Benny was born the day
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: after Saint Patrick's Day and so there's a lot to that.
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: So put she put this green and it was a
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: metal Washington Lottery four leaf clover, so it wasn't exactly
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: the same, but it was symbolic. And so it's like, okay, Lord,
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: I'm I'm listening. And then I just told my wife,
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: I think today that she pulled out a boy Scout handbook.
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: I'll never forget it. It was a used book and the
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: date that the boy had signed in there was three
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: eighteen o seven. Bennie's birthday is three eighteen March eighteenth,
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: eighteen o seven is my childhood address. I drive people
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: crazy with the numbers. But it was like and then
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: she said, you know, I'm fine with my boy being
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: in Cup Scouts. I'm concerned about his safety in boy Scouts.
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: Do you know anything about pedophiles in the boy Scouts?
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: And I about hit the floor. Wow. So and so
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: the third side is always like this red sea moment,
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: and it's like, okay, Lord, you're telling me you want
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: me to stay with this blue haired whatever color hair
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: was blue haired, mentally ill horder in the third floor
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: apartment in Limit. Okay. So I was there like I
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: don't know, eight months, some of the crazy stuff, and
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: I slept in the closet. God told me to go
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: into the closet for a month, like a three foot
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: by seven foot closet, and I'll never forget during COVID
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: or church pastor he was preaching from I think the
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: rooftop of his church, this huge church, and evert because
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: there was nobody there because of COVID, and he goes,
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: I know every closet in this place, and that's just
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: the way God speaks to me. And it's just like, Okay,
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: I guess I meant to be here. So and eventually
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: I got down to Piallop. God told me, I believe
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: to buy a home for a lady and her children
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: to get out of it about domestic violent situation. And
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: I was sleeping in the den, she was upstairs with
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: her kids, and just this insane stuff that everybody thought
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: I was crazy, and they still do. They address eighty
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: eleven Ben he died on eight eleven. Eighty and eleven
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: is ninety one. He was born in ninety one and
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: eight eleven. It's reversed. It's Hebrews eleven eight. God gives
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: it to me in reverse as well, which makes it
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: much more complicated. And so that's Abraham and going out
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: not knowing whehere he's going. And so it's like, okay,
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: that's where I'm supposed to be. Our current address is
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: nine three one eight three one eight. It's Benny's birthday.
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: It's just scripted by God. And so eventually, you know,
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: we had this, had this prophecy at East Point Church
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: in Bonnie Lake and that God was going to take
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: me on a path that I never imagine. And and
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: then I'll get to the final part, which is very interesting.
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: But so he also gave me this prophecy on Ruth
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: and Boaz that I would be marrying a much younger lady.
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: Last year, I was engaged a couple times and then
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: ultimately I met my lovely wife Julie. And yeah, one
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: of the places I stayed in amongst many you know,
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: I work at buying Frederickson. You drive down to this
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: place Bentley Avenue, Stuart Avenue, you know Ben Stuart, and
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: then the name of the place was Stuart Crossing. It's
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: just like, okay, I guess. God just makes it really
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: simple for me. So I was staying there, I opened
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: my Bible. The page on Ruth and Boaz was supernaturally
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: wrinkled in such a way that I knew I couldn't
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: wrinkle it. So it's like, okay, I guess Ruth is,
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: I guess Ruth is, you know, going to meet her soon.
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: And the next night I met Julie at East Point
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: Church and we were in a little group, so I
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: shared my story and Julie was floored by the boy
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: Scout part of it because she had been in cup
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: Scouts with her boys, and she shared her story. You'll
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: probably be eventually, you know, interviewing her too, but her
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: story is just jaw dropping too, and that you know,
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: God was bringing both of us together, that she was
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 1: the missing piece to the puzzle on all this. And
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: then yes, we have this crazy prophecy that we're going
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: to have children and twins at least that were the
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: modern day Abraham and Sarah. And you know, people, my
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: son just rolls his eyes and that's okay, but that
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: you know, the Stewart bloodline is going to come back
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: through me potentially. And so now we've you know, Julie
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: is unbelievable. Fourth times a charm, I like to say.
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: And you know, we're starting a ministry, Remarkable Spirit ministries
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: for the homeless, and we have that same heart, you know,
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 1: for the broken hearted, and to try to reach as
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: many people as we can reach. And then the book
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: on Wings Like Eagles, which has been condensed and more
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: palatable version than the Broken Scout, not so dark. The
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: Broken Scout is just complete everything raw. Yes, I mean
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: it did have other things in there, but it was
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: heavily weighted to my childhood. And you know, I'm I'm
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: forever grateful to my third wife for being the ghostwriter.
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: And my story would have never would have never been
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: written initially, you know, it was refined with another Ghos strider.
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: But and then miraculously I reached out to Josh McDowell ministry,
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: which is like leaving a message at the White House
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: or something. I mean, you know, the odds of them
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: calling back are zero. And they listened to my message,
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: and you know, it was God. And you know, I'm
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: I'm good at going ahead of God. And now I
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: think we're more in sync. You know, sometimes He really
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: has to humble us to pull us back. You know,
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: he doesn't want us ten miles ahead. He wants us maybe,
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: you know, like a shepherd, maybe a step like with
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: the sheep, and you know, a step behind. And he's
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: walked all this before and let's you know, we can't
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: fathom that. But so they called back and said, you know,
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: my story was breath taking, and and then I said,
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: you know, is there a chance you might be old?
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: You know, they get books in from all over the world,
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: boxes and boxes, and they have to pick and choose
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: which books they read, and no promises, but hopefully they
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: can read it. You know, they read it. And you know, Josh,
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: he endorsed it. He doesn't have time to read it,
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: so he goes off hiss reader. And then funny thing
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: is we sent in endorsements kind of wording for him,
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: and so he would kind of pick and choose because
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: he doesn't have time for this, you know, as busy
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: as he is. And anyway, so he endorsed the life
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: of my life story. And I met him in Seattle
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: a couple of years ago, which is you know, that's
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: like meeting that's like the next thing to Billy Graham.
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's he's just a man, but he's a
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: pretty special guy. Yeah, one hundred. I think he's written
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty five books, if you can even
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: and he's spoken to I think fifty million people in
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: one hundred and forty countries. I mean, it boggles the mind.
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: And so you know, I was in the presence of greatness,
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: and I think more than a carpenter's in one hundred
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: and twenty eight languages. So actually on Wings like Eagles
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 1: is in Spanish and Swahili. God's thinking, yeah, don't don't
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: get a big head there. You've got a long ways
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: to go. So anyway, so it was it was really
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: a blessing that he endorsed the book. It seems released
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: September twenty twenty one and it's on Amazon. Lord Willing,
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: my wife and I are going to you know, a
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 1: book fair next month, you know, back East, and you know,
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: we'll see where God takes it. You know, it has
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: been prophesied that it will be, you know, a bestseller.
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: And when I watched this movie, I can only imagine
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: twenty eighteen. The Lord told me, I believe that there
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: would be a movie. But you know, it's just to
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: help others. Honestly, our proceeds are going to go to
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: helping others. I mean, Josh McDowell, I mean, every cent
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 1: of is multi million selling books goes into the ministry.
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 1: I mean, you know, it really is the concept of
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: like keeping ten percent and giving away ninety. Yeah, we
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: just keep just enough so that you know, we have
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: a modest lifestyle and we give it, you know, we
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: give it away. I mean, when the Lord takes me
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: home someday, I want to have like, you know, a
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: nickel in my account. Yeah, not for you know, I
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: want something for Julie and the kids, but as little
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 1: as you know possible. And so we're really you know,
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: trying to help others and looking for sponsors and donations
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: and you know, just to try to reach as many
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: people as we can. And if if somebody's going to
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: reach out and do a donation, how would they do that.
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 3: Tell So you can do a donation on Facebook from
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 3: our remarkable Spirit Ministries website there and then also the
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 3: actual website which is the same name dot com. Tom's
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 3: book you can actually order not only on Amazon, but
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 3: you can also get it on his website on wings like.
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: Eagles dot org.
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 3: So yeah, there's several different ways, and I would just
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 3: encourage them if they need help, reach out and I'll walk.
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: You through it. Tom's this awesome. I really really appreciate
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: you sitting down talking.
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 3: Man.
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 1: Now, I know you get a lot of things going on.
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: The future is this ministry and obviously wherever God leads
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 1: you to have kind of any party, words or anything
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: else you want to you want to let all hang out,
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: so to speak. Well, I'm very grateful to have this
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: opportunity this afternoon. And you know, once again, I believe,
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: you know, God does allow hard things in our lives,
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 1: but there is purpose in your pain, and you know
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 1: he can turn evil into good. And the only reason
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: I'm sitting here today is because of you know, my
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 1: faith in God and and like I said, running to
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: Him when times are hard and not running away from him.
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: And I'm not judging anybody, you know, losing a child,
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 1: you know these you know, the childhood abuse, having cancer,
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: you know, these horrific divorces. I mean, you know, once again,
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 1: I'm just an average guy and with an extraordinary God.
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: I guess that's what I like to say. It really
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 1: has nothing to do with me. We just and we
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: have to be you know, patient and long suffering. And
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 1: that's you know, that's easier said than done. And we
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 1: live in an instantaneous society, society, and you know, I'm
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 1: guilty of it as anybody else. So you know, we're
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 1: just really excited about you know, this is a you know,
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: I just turned sixty two and Julie's forty seven. And
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 1: this has kind of been a lifelong journey of you know,
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 1: and you will hear Julie's story eventually too. You know,
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 1: it's a lifelong journey of a lot of trials. And
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 1: you know, I wanted to mention this man, Cliff harlst
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 1: and Pennsylvania read The Broken Scout and it said it
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 1: saved his life. And I don't think he would mind
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 1: my sharing, but you know, he was sex trafficked as
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 1: a boy, and just when you think you've been through
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 1: it all, you know, there's always somebody else that's been
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 1: through it more. And you know, he's paralyzed from the
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: waist down, and hopefully, you know, he's going to be
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: part of this ministry. But I think the more we
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: help others that have it far worse than we do,
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 1: you know, it really it really helps our outlook and
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 1: it prevents us from going, you know, deep into a
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 1: hole of pres when we're able to help others that
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 1: are going through much harder time than we are. And
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 1: so I think it's really to keep your eyes up
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 1: and looking at God in the big picture and not
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 1: to get so you know, inwardly focused, which is you know,
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: we all struggle with that, but Cliff has really been
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: an inspiration. I have another friend who's blind, and you know,
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 1: Julie was legally blind for three years and we all
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 1: have she's fine now. We all have different crosses, and
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 1: you know, I couldn't imagine being blind. I mean, with
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: what I've been through, I could not imagine being blind
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 1: or being paralyzed. For me, that would probably be just
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 1: about unbearable. So and then someone would, you know, say
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: that losing a child is would be unbearable for them.
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 1: So we all have different crosses and we just what
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: I like to say is that once God has set
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 1: me free in some areas, that we can help set
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 1: others free and that we can kind of link together
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 1: and be stronger. And I do believe forgiveness is the
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 1: key I did. I didn't mention, but you know, after
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 1: thirty five years, end of twenty fifteen, I went to
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: Bruce's house. I hadn't seen him essentially since I was eighteen.
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 1: You know, I forgave him face to face. He was
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 1: not cordial. I mean, he said we lied, and but
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 1: it's not about him, It's about me. And you know,
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 1: God really set me free that day to really help others.
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 1: And but I think forgiveness is really, you know, the key.
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 1: We have to forgive our betrayers because if we don't,
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 1: we're going to be in that dungeon of bitterness and
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 1: resentment our whole life and God, you know, that's not
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 1: where God wants us. As hard as it is, and yeah,
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 1: it takes time. I mean it took me, I guess
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 1: thirty five years ultimately at least face to face obviously
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: for and especially for women with you know, abusive men
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 1: or you know, that's not always possible from a safety standpoint,
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: but as much as possible, we really have to forgive
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 1: our betrayers. And I believe we can only do that
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: through Christ, especially these horrific offenses. We cannot do that
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 1: on our own. I've spoken at conferences and the concept
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 1: of forgiveness even like the Catholic Church abuse victims. I
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 1: spoke at a conference and that concept of forgiveness was
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 1: absolutely foreign to them. And so and I'm not it
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 1: has nothing to do with me. It's the power of
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 1: Christ and so we I think, you know, forgiveness is
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 1: really really key. And so just thank you for having
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: me today. Tom.
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 2: I'm once again amazed and having known you, just to
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 2: hear it is just almost overwhelming.
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 1: And I do appreciate everything that you have and through
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 1: them where it's where you've come from, and it's it's
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 1: glorious to see. I can't wait to see where the
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 1: future holds for you. It's gonna be amazing. Thank you.
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 1: Until next time. Thank you for tuning in. I'm doctor
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 1: Troy Munson, and remember there is way more right with
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 1: you than there is wrong with you. Thank you for
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 1: listening to doctor Munson's words of radiance. We hope you
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 1: enjoyed our show