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bite sized: what if...playstation had it together? · The #Backlog Breakdown

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  Hey guys, it's Nate and it's time for another Bite Size. So in, in the wild and crazy way this all works, Josh and I recorded what will be the episode to follow this next week last night. And I'm recording this Bite size tonight. And it's sort of. There's kind of been a topic that I've been wanting to do a little bit of a bite sized on just kind of. It's more of like kind of a. Well and I'm calling the Bite size. Obviously you've read it, if you've read it is called what if PlayStation had it together. And it's kind of one of those things where you know, Josh and I in, in the, the. The upcoming episode we talk a little bit just sort of about like it's, it's a kind of a state of the look at the state of the industry. We respond to a video, YouTube video from a guy that I had never heard of apparently. Josh, Josh sent me the link and I watched it and we engaged with some of his ideas. And it's just. I've kind of seen this thing popping up where there's just like a lot of like the video game industry is, is headed for collapse and maybe it is, you know, but if you want to find out what we actually have to say about that, you'll have to just check out next, you know, check out this, the, the episode next week. This though I want. And it kind of got me thinking, I've kind of been thinking about this anyways but it really got the juices flowing is like I'm going to ask the question like what if PlayStation hadn't just dropped the ball? And I'm going to kind of say like I think so like Covid times like there was like the supply constraint and everything else. And so even saying like hey, that stuff still stands but like what if, like what. The biggest problem that Sony, that PlayStation has sort of like the biggest criticism that PlayStation has faced is that their first party output this generation has been pretty abysmal. Now one, I think there's a bit of truth to that. I, I don't think they've had a lot of, you know, they, they haven't had. In comparison especially to the PS4 generation, the amount of first party support has been pretty abysmal. It's been, you know, it's been pretty sparse. There's, it's kind of been buffered with a lot of remakes and now and, and that's kind of what I want to say too is that it's not that it's been completely absent, it's just that it's been just not as robust. And you know, part of that is like the, the, the, the kind of like the, the budgets just kind of like getting huge. Development cycles getting massive. There's a whole bunch of stuff there that you know, we can, we can talk about. I think we can also talk, you could talk about like how like the Games as a service initiative has just been a wild miss. Just an absolute like, it's just, I mean, I think the, the more it comes out, like there's like, the more that we kind of find out about it and the more that we see how this strategy is sort of like landing, it becomes more and more obvious that like Jim Ryan was probably let go because of the, the, the massive missteps here. And again, you know, that's neither confirmed nor denied by Sony. It's like he reacted retired. But I think like he did a heck of a job in sort of, sort of steering the ship through again, the supply constraints and everything else. But I think as far as like the output in the game stuff and, and the way budgets went, it, that's just an absolute failure. I also sort of like, you know, and I'm going to say this and it's. I, from what I understand, Herman Hulst is a really sweet dude, but frankly I'm like, why does this guy still have a job? He was reportedly one of the biggest proponents of like Concord, which has been arguably the biggest failure to come from Sony's first party sort of endeavors. He was really, from what I understand, like one of the champions of sort of like, and one of the front men in this games service initiative and just the way that that's been executed and sort of done. And again, I'm not saying like, I just, I think with Herman it's more of a, like the thing is like he basically got to a point where it's like he was promoted past his level of competence. I think, you know, you kind of do have to give him credit for just shepherding Gorilla for the last, you know, however many years he's been there. Horizon sort of is his thing. And like here's. I'm not going to get into the Horizon thing where it's like, I think that's interesting, but it also definitely smacks of like PlayStation is really trying a little too hard to make it like a bigger thing than it actually is. But that's just my opinion, my perspective. I don't, I think there's yeah, Sometime at some point in time, I will record a TLDL on Horizon zero Dawn. And my position, I like that game, but my position, I think, has changed over the last several years in regards to that. But I kind of want to ask the question. It's like, what are some things that. And, and I know this is armchair quarterbacking. I know this is kind of like it. It is speculative. It's sort of like it's, it's playing with that what if question, like the what if of the Marvel sort of universe, where it's like they would ask these like, weird questions about the properties, like what if things have been a little different? And what, what frankly, I think were some of the choices that they. They haven't done, they didn't make, that they could have made, that I think actually would have yielded success. And then like, you know, frankly, what is something that I think if they can f. There's a few things I think if they can figure out, one, they're fine, and I think they'll be fine. But I think if they can figure these things out and they can sort of right the ship in a lot of ways that they'll be more than just fine. And some of that means like carving sort of a space out for themselves that is uniquely Sony. And so I'm going to start. I don't like. I know that just talking about, like the what if questions. I don't think the games as a service initiative thing is a bad idea. You know, Colin Moriarty over at Last Damn Media has talked about this repeatedly. When you see the amount of money that is generated by these, these, the, the, like the 10 big ones, you know, like Fortnite and Minecraft and Roblox. And I forget what the other ones are, but like, those are like the big three that I always remember. But if you look at the amount of money that these games on sort of these platforms, like, you know, it's apparent why pretty much all these companies are trying to figure something out along those lines. Like, it makes sense why they sort of like bungled, you know, why they picked up Bungie and then sort of bungled that acquisition, you know, and all that. But that's, that's a whole nother thing too, and we might even touch on that. But you look at that and it's like, I don't think that trying to get into the games as a service sort of fold and trying to carve out a piece of that is a bad idea. And actually, I think Sony had some really cool ideas that they could have leveraged. I think the problem is that they were trying to. They're looking for a Forever game without thinking about the fact that, like one, you know, Fortnite. And I think here's. It's like they want the next Fortnite. Everybody wants the next Fortnite. But what they don't sort of understand, what they don't sort of recognize is that Fortnite wasn't even Fortnite when it started. Fortnite started out as a completely different game mode. They introduced the battle royale thing and it just exploded. It's the behemoth that we know it to be now. Right, okay. But that didn't happen just on a whim. And so I think part of what happens is like Sony's approach. And again, I'm not. This isn't like a completely original thought to me, but Sony's approach has typically been like Sony first party exclusive games are sort of like. They are premier experiences. Like, you know, they're. They're mid to high eights, you know, at worst. And they. They really want to cultivate that sort of like Sony in a lot of ways I think does this. It's like when you look at. It's like these. These games are sort of like the production per square inch. You know, that's a. That's a term again from Colin Moriarty. He uses that. But like, like these games are second to none in just production and production value and just like quality cinematically, you know, narratively. Just all the. Like these Naughty Dog and is like the premier studio in this. Like you think of the Last of Us, and I know that we've gotten the remasters and everything else, but. And I think that games as a service requires them to be a little more flexible than I think they originally that they like doing, you know, than. Than they're as a. As like a model, as a. As a company. They're just not used to doing that. So. But I think like, you have Hell Divers, right? And that's been a fairly moderate success. Like, and it's. It makes money for them. And so obviously they should probably be looking for ways to sort of support Arrowhead in sort of growing that. I think the other thing though is like, instead of trying to build the Forever game, do the thing where it's like throw stuff at the wall and see what sticks. I think most notably, there are two games as a service projects that I know that were. One we know existed and was nuked. I think the other one is. Was rumored and. Or Was like, sort of. I don't know how far in development, but there was a. The last of us online, which I think, frankly, everybody who's played that game says it was really good. And I think part of what happened is their Naughty Dog, like, Bungie came in, said, hey, Naughty Dog, like, here's the thing, this is what it's going to take, and you guys are going to be tied to this property for X, Y and Z. I think that just didn't appeal to Naughty Dog. I also feel like they have a really hard time relinquishing any sort of control of that. So it's like, we don't want to actively oversee this thing for the next five, 10 years or whatever, however long this is. But we don't really want to hand it off to anybody else. So we're just gonna like, like, kind of kill this thing. I think instead, what's. What should have been done with that property. And this is just me is like. And this is part of like the. The what if speculative is like, what if they had taken that and said, like, hey, we're going to support this. Like, we're going to spin off an internal team, maybe sort of pull in help from like, Bungie or some of these other studios, you know, because it's a family of studios, it's all Sony Productions or whatever, and we're going to. We're going to like, like, basically say, we're going to support this for three years. For three years, we're going to sort of let this thing run. We will. We'll sort of throw some time and money. It's not going to pull us from the big energy things. Like, was it Heretic, the Space Prophet or whatever that that one's called, which I think actually I'm kind of excited about. Like, but that's neither here nor there, but, like, give it some time, see if it has, like, enough legs. And if it does sort of turn into something at that point in time, like, you could probably go again. You can revisit your position on the game after it sort of run its course and just say, like, we'll actively support it for this amount of time. After that, we'll see what happens. And maybe in that time, like, they're a group of people who just kind of want to stick with that within Naughty Dog or, like, you know, maybe they'll feel comfortable passing. But it's like, I think if they had done that, that could have been something again. It's the. It's the. Where it's not you put a window on it, you sort of let it run and then if it makes you money, great, you know, but you're, you're trying, it's going to make some money, right? And it could have again been the thing that got sticky and sort of pulled everybody in. So there's that there was frankly a Spider man, like online games as a service kind of game. And the more I think about that one, it's like, I think probably what killed that thing in the cradle was the, that we know from some, the, the, the insomniac leaks that the licensing fees for Disney properties are astronomical and Spider man, like, so what I'm saying is like, I think probably what killed that is like, I think that could have had potentially like a really significant return on investment there, but the licensing fees are just like probably a little prohibitive. Um, so, yeah, and I think that one's kind of disappointing because frankly, I think having sort of like an open world multiplayer sort of like a big sandbox where multiple players can sort of get in and do like missions and stuff like that in a spider verse where you can have like a custom Spider Man. And again, we know very little about what this property was supposed to be, but to me that's incredibly appealing where it's like you have sort of like you can create different archetypes or you can sort of like sort of make your own custom spider with his own custom, with his or her own cut her custom gadgets and custom like power layout. I, I, there's a part of that with all that like sick traversal like the, like the swinging and you could even sort of maybe throw in some of the gliding from Spider Man 2 and everything else. Like, oh, dude, that I just get like amped thinking about that. It would have been cool. I probably, it, it's probably better for my wallet and for my time that that doesn't exist. But I think like that would have been a really cool property. And again put like, say like, hey, we're going to sort of see where this like three years and move on frankly. So like, like I said, and I think that that's where you can sort of do that, that Helldivers thing where you can charge 40 or 50 bucks for this game and you can do sort of basically cosmetic, you know, you can introduce like, you know, cosmetics and, and use that as sort of like the, the microtransaction sort of, you know, to generate more revenue off that. And I, I think you can get away with stuff like that. If again, it's sort of. You have that high quality bar. You know, frankly, you know we've talked about like you know, just Blue having Blue Point developing a live action or games as a service. Got a war game. It's just what is like. And I think that's part of it is like Sony has just really mismanaged their studios. I mean we talk about like the Bungee stuff now. There's part of that is like frankly I, I think that acquisition was just like I kind of championed that because I, I do feel like Bungie does their best work when they have someone sort of cracking the whip on them when there is sort of like a little bit of like pressure on them. I also think their financials were. Yeah, I like, I'm just, I want to say Pete Parsons, I don't think that's. I'm gonna, I'm gonna Google this which is like just the absolute best radio. I know you guys, CEO Bungie is it. And of course what was going on here? Pete Parsons. Oh wow. Back in August, Pete Parsons did step down. Okay, so that's long past. But it's like why he still had a job for after that is kind of like I wouldn't be surprised. It was tied to him anyways. But I mean Bungie is like one of those, you know, studios where I want to see the succeed. I'm really hoping Marathon does well. Frankly, I think what kind of what Sony audit, what. What PlayStation ought to do with Bungie is they have like. I know maybe people at Bungie are sort of fatigued with the Destiny property. Maybe. But also it's like hey, you know, you guys, I think what they could do with that and I think what would be a really good idea in my opinion is actually just like what if Bungie made a. Not like basically you could do like online co op with your friends, but it's a camp very just like entirely campaign driven. And you just told the Destiny story from stem to stern and you just made it like one sort of like you made it like a 30 hours sort of like first person shooter game using the pre existing mechanics, using the pre existing set pieces. But you just, you, you tell the story beats. I. I mean they'd get 70 bucks. You'd probably get more out of me honestly for something like that. Especially if I could do it with like my, my brother and Parker. Like or even just like people like you know, within Bungie. Like if you could just jump into that and play that with people but make it a standalone experience so that I could do it single player if I wanted to as well. Sort of like go back to that and dude, like make it a $70, $80 game. I think you, I think you could, I think you, you could. And that, that would I think do a lot to generate goodwill. I think that would do a lot to reinvigorate maybe like lapsed Destiny fans, you know. So it's stuff like that. I think frankly one of the things is like, I have to ask a question. What if like PlayStation could figure out their release cadence now and again we, we've talked, I touched on this early on in the bite sized and there is this problem where they have failed to consistently sort of have like meaningful output. Like I think if they could do like one big tent pole, like so if you have like a Ghost of Yote, if you have like a Spider man, like once a year, like first party and then you sort of, you get those exclusives. And I think some of that is like, there is a lot of like, you know, people forget like the Demon Souls remake was part of that, the Last of Us part, parts one and two. Those, those remakes and all that stuff like that is kind of part of it. And I think, you know, putting Blue Point on and just really saying like, hey, you're a remake studio, like bring forward some of these really high profile like older games. Bring them forward so that we have them in a modern context with modern bells and whistles and, and stuff like that. I, I just think like their, their release cadence has really been abysmal and I think especially in comparison, like, and this is where they probably need to be a lot more like Nintendo where they really need to sort of like they, they have enough studios that they need to sort of be having like a game. I think if you do like one sort of like big temple, like big energy sort of first party title and then you have something that's a little smaller, a little more like cult classicy like and you have one or two of those a year. I think you actually go a long ways to really sort of like calm down the base. I think part of it is like, you know, there, there has been the, you know, Final Fantasy is not a first part first party game. You know, it has, in a way it does have very strong ties. Like that property has very strong ties, the PlayStation and stuff, stuff like that. But I think that's like the big things is like, I think, you know, those are sort of the areas where they've really flubbed. And I just have to ask a question. Like what if they got that all right, like they've been fairly dominant in the like. And that one of the reasons Microsoft has sort of had to basically, I mean move into just sort of becoming the. And is moving towards becoming the biggest third party publisher is. Well, I mean technically they already are, you know, with it anyways. But I think one of the reasons they're just really leaning more into that is just because they, they Xbox Gaming was not able to carve out a significant chunk of the market. It just wasn't game pass. The game pass Gambit failed. You know, basically with the ABK merger they got too big. And I just have to think like, you know, Sony's had a lot of missteps and it's kind of like asking, like I'm asking the question. It's like what if they hadn't made these mistakes? What if there was no concord? What if like they hadn't sort of launched like 13 different games as a service initiatives and canceled all of them or almost all of them. Like what if they had actually sort of focused in. And I'm, I think in some ways I don't think it's too late to right the ship. I don't think it's too late to sort of correct it. I actually think you, you know, it's like the fact that they, they do have sort of, they are sort of succeeding on momentum essentially. But it's like I do think like if they can and I'm hopeful that under current, the newest, the new leadership that they will sort of write some of these. Yeah, I'm going to call them wrongs. They're not really wrongs but like, you know, sort of correct these missteps and find like sustainable, you know, rhythms. I think part of the problem is like they do have a. Whereas Nintendo, it's not really about like Nintendo. I think Nintendo does a really great job at scoping and budgeting and everything else. And I think like, because PlayStation has made its bones about or made its bones on the idea that they are sort of like the premier place to play in a lot of ways, right? It's like like their games again that very like high tier sort of like premier sort of gaming experience, those do tend to be a lot more expensive. And I, I think you can have a little bit of column A and a little bit of column B because like we've seen like they have like they've had a modicum of success with Astrobot. A lot of people really love that game and I think like they need Like, I don't think they can step away from that and in fact I think they need to sort of like lean into that when it's appropriate. I also think that they need to just. They need to get sort of like everybody on a better cadence. And you know, like I said, I'm. I'm excited about a lot of the PlayStation first party lineup for next year. Like Saros or Sarah. You know, Saros has me like I haven't even beaten remnant a returnal. I mean I be a platinum remnant too. I haven't beaten returnal yet but it's like I'm excited to play that game and I think like to like even sort of like, you know, they have gotten some like really cool. They have that, you know, and obviously it's like limited. You know, there's a window on it but like, you know the, that timed exclusive with death stranding and. Well, death stranding originally, now death stranding too. Like yeah, dude, like that's kind of like cool. And that, that actually I think actually does sort of support the brand and that idea. I just think they need to sort of probably go a little bit further. You know, PlayStation fans, as a general rule, want PlayStation games and I think like we do get some. I also, I mean I also do think like, you know, gaming fandoms tend to be fickle and kind of stupid. And I'm not saying this to be but like, you know, it's like it's never enough and it's just like. But I also understand like wanting more from Sony just being like it would be cool to like get. Make some of these things happen. But yeah, so I guess like that's sort of like the. I'm just like, I'm like. I think like if, if Sony, if Sony can correct. If PlayStation can really correct their ship, like and sort of like figure some of these problems out. And it's like it kind of makes me sad because it's like I think of like there's an alternate reality or an alternate alternate universe where yeah, like we have like some really cool Sony games as a service sort of experiments. But yeah, but yeah, so it's like I'm asking you. I think like the question is what if PlayStation had it together? I think they. It wouldn't even be sort of. It'd be. It wouldn't even be a question as to like who won the console war. Like, and in some ways that's just astute. But it's like I think they'd be way more dominant. Like I think I think instead of like a little over 80 million units in the wild, you'd probably see that number. You'd probably see that number significantly higher. So, yeah, it's kind of like one of those things where it's like, you know, again, they're. They're probably like coasting on momentum to a certain degree, but they've also. And they, they've done well in spite of, like, their, their missteps. I just kind of. There's that part. It's like, man, if you guys could really just figure this out and sort of. And I know it's really easy to here and be like, oh, hey, you know, if only you did X, Y and Z. You know, hindsight's 2020 and all that. But. But yeah, I mean, like, some of it is like, I do kind of miss. Like, what if they had. What if they had. What if we had the last of us online? What if we had that. That Marvel Spider Man Online game? Like, you know, those I think would have been really cool. Sony, you know, Sony exclusive or Sony Primaried, you know, games as a service kind of things. I would have. I would have been really excited to try those out. Yeah. And yeah, but yeah, anyways, that's. That's the thought experiment. That's the kind of like, let's go down that rabbit hole. And I think, like I said, I think the, the answer to the question is what if Sony had had it together the last couple years of this? I think that, I think that they would have really. I think that Xbox would have migrated faster, would have just sort of like that timeline would have accelerated and they would have made the same moves. I don't think it changes that much, but I also think, like, you know. Yeah, anyways, yeah, but yeah. That being said, guys, hey, this is bite size. Hopefully you found it mildly entertaining, enjoyable. If you hated it, I'm sorry, but like, whatever, you know, let me know. Let. Let me know in the comments. You know, feel free to sort of click the links on the, on our link tree there and sort of get a hold of us if you like it. Same thing if you don't. Yeah, cool, that too. But until next time, guys, I did the things. You be good and we'll catch you later. Right, Deuces? That's. Why is that not playing? There it goes.