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The Greg Laurie Show - Evangelist J. John: Why I Told This Church, Don't Waste My Time · Word Radio

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Life Audio. Now, what was interesting during that season was
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: that you're trying to communicate Christianity is true. This is
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: how we know it's true. Today, the emphasis is, does
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: it work?
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: Well, it's great to be with you, Jay John. I
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  Speaker 2: our connection is so good. You're over in England, right
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: outside of London, and our connection is so good. I
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  Speaker 2: thought you might be in the room next to me.
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  Speaker 2: So it's great to see you again.
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  Speaker 1: Oh, Pastor Greg, it's great to see you as well.
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  Speaker 1: And how amazing. I know the reception is just remarkable.
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  Speaker 1: You're right. It feels like we're in the same room.
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  Speaker 2: And for people that don't know who you are. You
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  Speaker 2: are an evangelist, and you have preached to thousands and
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  Speaker 2: thousands of people all around the world. In fact, I
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  Speaker 2: read recently how many countries you've actually preached in. It's
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  Speaker 2: an incredible amount. It's over 60.
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  Speaker 1: Well, it's 69. 69 so far.
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  Speaker 2: It's amazing. And, you know, you are an evangelist, and
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  Speaker 2: And J. John, I don't know that there are many
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  Speaker 2: evangelists out there today. And when I meet one, I'm
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  Speaker 2: always kind of excited because I too am called to
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  Speaker 2: be an evangelist. And it's a unique gift that God
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  Speaker 2: has given you. How would you define the word evangelist?
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  Speaker 2: What is an evangelist? And before you answer, Jesus told
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  Speaker 2: all of us as Christians to go into all the
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  Speaker 2: world and preach the gospel. So we all are called
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  Speaker 2: to evangelize. However, there is a gift identified in the
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  Speaker 2: Bible of evangelists. God gave evangelists, pastor, teachers, etc. in
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  Speaker 2: Ephesians 4. What is an evangelist and what does he
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  Speaker 2: or she do? Okay.
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  Speaker 1: Well, first of all, Greg, look, if we love Jesus
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  Speaker 1: and we're followers of Jesus, then we are a witness.
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  Speaker 1: And that's very important to state today. There are two
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  Speaker 1: reasons today, Greg, why people are not yet Christians. One,
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  Speaker 1: they've never met a Christian. Two, they have met a Christian.
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  Speaker 1: So we can either help someone in their journey of
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  Speaker 1: faith or hinder them in their journey of faith. Now,
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  Speaker 1: in a court of law, you have the witness. The
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  Speaker 1: witness gets up and says, look, let me just tell
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  Speaker 1: you what I know. This is what happened to me.
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  Speaker 1: This is what I experience. Now, every Christian is like
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  Speaker 1: that witness. But then also in the court of law,
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  Speaker 1: you have got the attorney, you've got the lawyer, you've
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  Speaker 1: got the barrister. They get up and present the facts
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  Speaker 1: in such a convincing manner as to get the jury
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  Speaker 1: to make a decision. So the way I see it, Greg,
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  Speaker 1: is that every one of us who's a, a follower
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  Speaker 1: of Jesus is a Christian, is a witness, including you
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  Speaker 1: and me. But then people like you and I, we're
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  Speaker 1: like that lawyer that can present the truth of Jesus
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  Speaker 1: to enable people to encounter Jesus. Right.
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  Speaker 2: Now, when you share the gospel, do you wear that
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  Speaker 2: weird little white wig that the barristers in England wear?
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  Speaker 2: Because we don't do that in America anymore.
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  Speaker 1: No, we don't. No, I'm just myself, and I'm chilled
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  Speaker 1: and relaxed.
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  Speaker 2: And that's, I think, a big insight into what you
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  Speaker 2: do so beautifully, J. John, is you are chill and relaxed.
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  Speaker 2: You're funny. You're personable. You're easy to understand, but yet
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  Speaker 2: you have deep theology. Your content is biblical, a great combination.
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  Speaker 2: And I think those are some features of an evangelist because,
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  Speaker 2: you know, Philip was an evangelist. He's the only one
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  Speaker 2: identified specifically as an evangelist in the New Testament. And
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  Speaker 2: what do we find him doing? We see this man
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  Speaker 2: from Ethiopia that went to Jerusalem searching for God. He
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  Speaker 2: came back with a scroll of Isaiah, which he was
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  Speaker 2: reading out loud in his chariot. And Philip, who had
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  Speaker 2: been directed by the Lord to go to the desert
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  Speaker 2: and just wait, sees this man and he starts by saying,
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  Speaker 2: do you understand what you're reading? You know, he doesn't
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  Speaker 2: start immediately with preaching. He's building a bridge. And the
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  Speaker 2: man from Ethiopia says, how can I unless someone shows
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  Speaker 2: me the way? Seems to me most of the people
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  Speaker 2: I know who are evangelists are great bridge builders, you know,
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  Speaker 2: instead of bridge burners. They connect with their audience. They
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  Speaker 2: connect with their listener one-on-one. Do you think that's Baked
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  Speaker 2: into the gift or, you know, what is that all about?
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  Speaker 1: Well, if we look at the master at work.
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  Speaker 2: Yes.
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  Speaker 1: Our Lord Jesus. And one of my favorite encounters is
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  Speaker 1: him and the Samaritan woman in John chapter four. And
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  Speaker 1: what I let's just do a very quick Bible study.
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  Speaker 1: Jesus is at one place. He wants to go to
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  Speaker 1: another place. OK, if you were any other Jew, you
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  Speaker 1: would have walked around Samaria. Right. But the first thing
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  Speaker 1: you read is. He walked into Samaria. So Jesus broke
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  Speaker 1: longstanding traditions. Now, some of our traditions, Greg, they're good,
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  Speaker 1: they're positive. But I think sometimes our traditions can hinder people.
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  Speaker 1: So in this case, Jesus broke longstanding traditions and entered in.
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  Speaker 1: He goes to a well. A woman comes. What's the
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  Speaker 1: difference between the woman and Jesus? Well, she's living in adultery.
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  Speaker 1: He's the high priest. So you've got a moral barrier.
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  Speaker 1: She's a woman. He's a man. You've got a social barrier.
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  Speaker 1: She's a Samaritan. He's Jewish. You've got a racial barrier.
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  Speaker 1: She's a Samaritan.
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  Speaker 2: He's Jewish.
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  Speaker 1: You've got a religious barrier. Moral, social, racial, religious. And
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  Speaker 1: that's so true, Greg, for us. Sometimes our neighbors, our colleagues...
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  Speaker 1: Other people we know, there's a moral barrier, there's a
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  Speaker 1: social barrier, there's a racial barrier, there's a religious barrier.
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  Speaker 1: What does Jesus do? He focuses on what they have
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  Speaker 1: in common, H2O. And from talking about H2O, he talks
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  Speaker 1: about this other kind of water, that if you drink
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  Speaker 1: this other water, you won't go thirsty. Now, what's amazing
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  Speaker 1: about the conversation is how she addresses Jesus. She addresses
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  Speaker 1: him four times. The first time she calls him Jew.
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  Speaker 1: The second time she says, sir. The third time she
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  Speaker 1: says prophet. And the fourth time she says Messiah. She
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  Speaker 1: then drops her pot. She goes and gets the entire village.
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  Speaker 2: Right.
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  Speaker 1: Jesus went out of his way. He stopped at a well.
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  Speaker 1: He spoke to one woman. And as a consequence, the
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  Speaker 1: Samaritan revival started.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great outline of that conversation. And she
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  Speaker 2: went in town and told everyone what he had said
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  Speaker 2: to her. Come see a man that's told me all
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  Speaker 2: these things about myself. And many believed as a result
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  Speaker 2: of her testimony. And I think, you know, you alluded
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  Speaker 2: to this earlier. We're all called to be a witness.
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  Speaker 2: I think one of the best bridge building stories. techniques
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  Speaker 2: we can use, tools we can use as our personal story,
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  Speaker 2: because every Christian has a testimony. Now, granted, some are
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  Speaker 2: more dramatic than others. I have a friend who used
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  Speaker 2: to be in the mafia, and his name is Michael Franzese.
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  Speaker 2: They were grooming him to be the head of the
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  Speaker 2: Colombo crime family. And then Alice Cooper, I've interviewed, and
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  Speaker 2: he was a rock star, a drug addict. Well, we
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  Speaker 2: weren't all mafioso and we weren't all drug addicts. Maybe
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  Speaker 2: the extent of your testimony is I was a good
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  Speaker 2: moral person and I tried to do the right thing,
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  Speaker 2: but I realized I was separated from God by my sin.
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  Speaker 2: That's a testimony too.
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  Speaker 1: Greg, and I always want to encourage people. and reaffirm
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  Speaker 1: that they all have a story. You know, I was
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  Speaker 1: in darkness, but I saw some light. I didn't know
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  Speaker 1: which way to go, but God guided me. I had
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  Speaker 1: a need, but God provided for me. They're all testimonies,
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  Speaker 1: stories of God's goodness, of God's kindness, of God's grace.
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  Speaker 1: When I'm encouraging people, again, back to the word evangelist,
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  Speaker 1: of course, evangelist is a proclaimer. but we're also an equipper.
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  Speaker 1: And one of the things we do is to equip
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  Speaker 1: people in order to share the good news with others.
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  Speaker 1: And honestly, Greg, I've studied this. I've lectured on it.
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  Speaker 1: I've written about it. My conclusion is very simple. And
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  Speaker 1: I think I came up with this like 30 years ago.
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  Speaker 1: This is what we need to do. Be more intentional
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  Speaker 1: in praying, caring, sharing. That's it. That's it. Praying, praying,
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  Speaker 1: praying for our neighbours, friends, family and colleagues. This morning,
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  Speaker 1: Kelly and I, we wake up around 5.30 in the morning.
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  Speaker 1: We pray the Lord's Prayer. We pray for each other.
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  Speaker 1: We pray for our family. And then we pray for
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  Speaker 1: all the people we, who we personally know, who don't
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  Speaker 1: yet know jesus so this morning we pray for 42
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  Speaker 1: people wow we do that every day nice every day
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  Speaker 1: we pray for them we bring them to the lord
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  Speaker 1: we're praying lord open their eyes open the eyes of
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  Speaker 1: their hearts lord how can we sow some seed into
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  Speaker 1: their lives is there anything we can do And then caring,
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  Speaker 1: you know that beautiful phrase, people don't care how much
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  Speaker 1: we know until they know how much we care. There's
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  Speaker 1: a truth there. So we're trying to care for some
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  Speaker 1: of them. And then how can we share the good news?
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  Speaker 2: You mentioned killing your wonderful wife. How many years have
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  Speaker 2: you guys been married?
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  Speaker 1: 43 years.
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  Speaker 2: 43 years. See, you guys are a beautiful couple. And
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  Speaker 2: so many times I've seen you, you're together. And she's
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  Speaker 2: such a great support for you. I think she's in
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  Speaker 2: your studio there right now, isn't she?
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  Speaker 1: Yes.
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  Speaker 2: Yes.
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  Speaker 1: So now, I.
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  Speaker 2: Was going to ask you, you say, telling your story.
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  Speaker 2: So what's your story, J. John, starting with what is
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  Speaker 2: with your name, J. John? All right. Okay.
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  Speaker 1: So, Greg, as you know, I'm Greek Cypriot. So I
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  Speaker 1: lived in Cyprus as a child. I grew up in London.
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  Speaker 1: And when you're Greek, you are Greek Orthodox. Now, Greek
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  Speaker 1: Orthodoxy is an expression of Christianity.
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  Speaker 2: It is. Right.
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  Speaker 1: But there's also a cultural element to it. So your
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  Speaker 1: whole culture, faith, are intertwined. twined together so what i'm
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  Speaker 1: saying there is it's a bit like you're jewish yes
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  Speaker 1: you're an atheist but you're still jewish yeah sure it's
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  Speaker 1: that kind of thing and we were not religious as
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  Speaker 1: a family we went at christmas day easter day yeah
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  Speaker 1: i didn't really know anything i i didn't go around
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  Speaker 1: saying i'm an agnostic but i was probably an agnostic
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  Speaker 1: but when i went to college in london And interestingly,
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  Speaker 1: my first day of college, this guy comes up to me.
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  Speaker 1: He introduces himself as a Christian. I don't think I'd
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  Speaker 1: ever met one before or I'd never met one that
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  Speaker 1: actually told me. And in my first year, Greg, he
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  Speaker 1: bought me a Bible. He basically helped me come and
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  Speaker 1: understand and encounter Jesus. When I got baptized, I remember
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  Speaker 1: this is what I said. My friend Andy built a
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  Speaker 1: bridge from him to me. And when he did, Christ
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  Speaker 1: Jesus walked over it.
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  Speaker 2: I love that.
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  Speaker 1: And that's, Greg, what happened. I was transformed.
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  Speaker 2: What age were you? 16, was it?
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  Speaker 1: I was 17.
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  Speaker 2: Same age I was when I came to Christ. Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: And you know where it says in Romans about the
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  Speaker 1: transformation and the renewing of the mind? It's very interesting
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  Speaker 1: that the Greek word for the renewing of the mind
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  Speaker 1: is metamorphosis.
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  Speaker 2: Yes.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. That's what I wish they kept the word metamorphosis in.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: You know, because that's what happened to you. That's what
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  Speaker 1: happened to me. I was born again.
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  Speaker 2: Yes.
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  Speaker 1: But then there was this cultural poof with my family.
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  Speaker 1: because they thought I joined a cult. And so it
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  Speaker 1: was difficult and it was hard. And there were battles
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  Speaker 1: to try and be faithful to the Lord when, you know,
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  Speaker 1: my family opposed it.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. So, you know, what Andy did for you, I
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  Speaker 2: know you've done for many others. I know that you
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  Speaker 2: have relationships with people that are well-known, that you have
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  Speaker 2: influenced privately, doing everything you can to encourage them in
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  Speaker 2: their faith. You know, sometimes preachers will meet celebrities and
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  Speaker 2: they'll kind of name drop them a lot and talk
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  Speaker 2: about them all the time. But I think what you're
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  Speaker 2: trying to do is work behind the scenes and actually
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  Speaker 2: help these people. And one person that you played a
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  Speaker 2: key role in them coming to Christ, I just interviewed her,
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  Speaker 2: was Christine Kane.
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  Speaker 1: Oh, I love Christine.
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  Speaker 2: And what an amazing story, because she, too, is Greek.
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  Speaker 2: And you took an— I mean, she's a nonbeliever. Nobody of
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  Speaker 2: any— I mean, she had the most insane childhood and upbringing,
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  Speaker 2: very tragic. But yet you took a personal interest in
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  Speaker 2: her and built a bridge to her, and it resulted
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  Speaker 2: in her coming to Christ. And now Christine influences people
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  Speaker 2: around the world.
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  Speaker 1: It's amazing. Well, you know, I'll tell you my I
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  Speaker 1: don't know how she told you the story, but let
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  Speaker 1: me tell you my version. So I was leading this mission, Greg,
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  Speaker 1: at Sydney University. Yes. And the auditorium was not big enough.
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  Speaker 1: So we had to move the meetings to the outdoors. Now,
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  Speaker 1: you know. I know you're like me, Greg. We're very
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  Speaker 1: reluctant to kind of say it's a revival. You know,
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  Speaker 1: we're very cautious. But there were like 4,000 students at
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  Speaker 1: the meetings. And I was preaching every day. Anyway, I
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  Speaker 1: finished preaching. I got off the stage and stepped down.
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  Speaker 1: Students were talking to me. And this girl comes. She
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  Speaker 1: interrupts everyone. And she says, I hated what you said.
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  Speaker 1: I said, oh, I'm very, very sorry. And she says, well,
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  Speaker 1: I can tell you that church ruins people's lives. And
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  Speaker 1: I said, I'm very sorry that you feel that. And
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  Speaker 1: I said, well, look, have you got a few minutes?
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  Speaker 1: And she's like, why? I said, well, if you've got
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  Speaker 1: a few minutes, how about you and I just go
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  Speaker 1: to the university cafeteria and we'll just have a coffee together.
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  Speaker 1: And so she agreed. And we literally just strolled, went
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  Speaker 1: into the university cafeteria, just got a coffee. By the way, Greg,
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  Speaker 1: can I reassure you, I don't do that with everyone
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  Speaker 1: that I meet. It was one of those moments where
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  Speaker 1: I felt the prompting of the spirit. And I sat
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  Speaker 1: with her. I said, why are you so angry? And,
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  Speaker 1: you know, all this stuff came out. And I didn't
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  Speaker 1: try and defend her. I didn't try and argue. I listened.
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  Speaker 1: And then I gave her a few pointers. And I said, look,
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  Speaker 1: I'm speaking tomorrow. That was a Monday. I said, come Tuesday,
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  Speaker 1: hear me preach, and we'll have a coffee. We did.
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  Speaker 1: I said, come and hear me Wednesday, and then we'll
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  Speaker 1: have a coffee.
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  Speaker 2: She did.
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  Speaker 1: Come and hear me Thursday, and we'll have a coffee.
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  Speaker 1: She did. I said, there's one meeting left, Friday. Come
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  Speaker 1: and hear me Friday, and we'll have a coffee. Friday.
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  Speaker 1: She's ransomed, healed, restored, forgiven. That is Christine Cain. And
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  Speaker 1: I sometimes say, Greg, you know, I preach five times.
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  Speaker 1: I think it was the five coffees. It's the five
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  Speaker 1: coffees that did it.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, the personal interaction and involvement in her life. And,
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  Speaker 2: you know, she was under the conviction of the Spirit.
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  Speaker 2: Sometimes we think when someone argues with us, that's a
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  Speaker 2: bad thing. They may be closer to the kingdom of
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  Speaker 2: God than the pleasant, passive person who says, well, I
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  Speaker 2: liked your speech. Thank you. But there's an expression when
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: you throw a rock into a pack of dogs, the
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  Speaker 2: one that barks the loudest is the one that got hit.
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  Speaker 2: And it reminds us of Saul of Tarsus prior to
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: becoming Paul the Apostle. What was he doing? He was
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: going out of his way to persecute Christians, starting with
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  Speaker 2: the martyrdom of Stephen. So Obviously, the Lord directed you
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  Speaker 2: in that.
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  Speaker 1: I know you told a great story.
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  Speaker 2: Go ahead, please.
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  Speaker 1: Do you know what was so amazing, Greg? It just
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: warmed my heart that you remember the dates of the
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: little cassettes, those little cassettes. She got the cassettes of
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: those five talks. She transcribed them. Now, you know how
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: we used to transcribe those cassettes? You'd have to press play,
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: then you rewind, and then you play, then you rewind,
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  Speaker 1: then you play. She transcribed them, she memorized them, memorized them,
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  Speaker 1: and she went all over Australia with Youth Alive preaching them.
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  Speaker 2: Unbelievable.
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  Speaker 1: Until she created her own talks.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. Well, when you're getting started in ministry, you
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  Speaker 2: often will emulate people. Paul even said, follow me as
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  Speaker 2: I follow Christ. That's okay. But then you begin to
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  Speaker 2: develop and cultivate your own unique gifting. But it's trying
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: to describe what we do. It's like we both travel
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: a lot, and you'll talk with people next to you,
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: sitting next to you on the plane, and they'll ask,
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: what do you do? And the moment you reveal to
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  Speaker 2: them that you're some kind of a preacher— Oh, you know,
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: that can stop a lot of conversations, right? But you
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: tell a story about a conversation you had. I think
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: you were flying, as I recall. And someone asked you
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  Speaker 2: what you did for a living.
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  Speaker 1: Yes.
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  Speaker 2: Tell me what happened.
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  Speaker 1: Yes. Well, I sat next to this woman at Heathrow
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  Speaker 1: Airport in London. And I, you know, I'm very, hello.
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  Speaker 1: You know, she's like, oh, hello. I said, where are
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: you going? She says, I'm going to Singapore. Then she
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: said to me, where are you going? I said, I'm
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  Speaker 1: going to Australia.
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  Speaker 2: I said, what?
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: Do you do? She told me, she said, what do
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: you do? And I said, well, I work for a
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: global enterprise. And she said, do you? I said, yes,
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: I do. I said, we've got outlets in nearly every
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: country of the world. She said, have you? I said, yes,
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: we have. I said, we've got hostels. We've got orphanages.
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: We've got hospitals. We've got hospices. We've got schools, colleges.
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: We've got food banks. I said, we do justice work,
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: reconciliation work, marriage work. I said, basically, we look after
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: people from birth to death. and we deal in the
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: area of behavioral alteration. And she went, wow. I mean,
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: like a really loud wow. People turned around and looked
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: at us. And then she said, well, what is it called?
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: I said, it's called the church. Have you heard of it?
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: That's brilliant.
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: And that began a conversation.
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: You know, you make it sound so easy, but most
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: Christians are really intimidated about sharing their faith. I read
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: that 31% of Christians initiate conversations about Christ. Why is
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: it so hard for believers? And are there any tips
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: you could give them as an evangelist on how to
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: get a conversation started? What you just shared is a
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: perfect illustration.
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: Well, Greg, well, you know it, don't you? I mean,
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: people lack confidence. So you have to say, well, why
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: do you lack Because if you experience Jesus and you
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: have his peace, you have his presence, and, you know,
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: his Holy Spirit comes into our lives when we become
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: his followers. Right. And we are empowered. I like that word, empowered.
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: That's true. And, you know, I always like, what was
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: it the Apostle Paul said? The love of Christ compels me. Yes.
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: You know, that's it, Greg. The love of Christ compels me.
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: So if you've experienced the love of Christ, it's almost
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: irrational for us not to be wanting to speak about Jesus,
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: to share about Jesus. You know, and I think what
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: it is, is with some people, they probably encountered some
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: bad models of it. Yeah. which has kind of put
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: them off and set them back. And I think we
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: need to help them rediscover. You know, last year, Greg,
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: Kelly and I, we were in America and we had
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: this day off and we thought, oh, let's go to
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: a shopping mall. And the church said, oh, you know,
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: we'll provide you with a car. And we said, no, no, no, no, no.
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: I didn't want to bother them on our day off.
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: So we thought, oh, let's get an Uber. So we
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: picked up an Uber. We got in the Uber and
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: every time I get into an Uber or I go
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: into a hotel room, the first thing I do is pray. Lord,
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: cleanse this car. Cleanse this hotel room. I don't know
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: what's gone on in here before, but I don't want
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: any darkness in here. And I welcome his presence. And
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: I do that with the car.
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: Got in.
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: I said to the Uber driver, how long will it
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: take us to get there? He said, oh, it'll take
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: 20 minutes. So I said, well. As we're traveling, I said,
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: is there anything we can pray for you? That's what
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: I said. That was my opening line, Greg. I didn't
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: say I was a Christian. I didn't say I'm a reverend.
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: I didn't say nothing. My opening line is, is there
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: anything we can pray for? He said, would you pray
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: for my mother? She's got Alzheimer's. I said, yes, of course.
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: I said, would you mind if my wife and I
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: prayed out loud for your mother? He said, no, of course.
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: So we pray out loud for his mother. As we're
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: praying out loud, he starts weeping. And he's driving and
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: he's weeping, like uncontrollably weeping. He's touched by the presence
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: of Jesus. We get to the shopping mall. I always
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: carry resources with me. I gave him some resources. I
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: always carry a cross with me. I've got one. Let
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: me see. Yeah, I've got one in my pocket. I
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: gave him a little cross. I explained a little bit
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: about the cross. I said to him, where do you live?
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: I tried to tell him about a course called Alpha
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: or something like that. And I said, look, you need
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: to do something like this. So and I sowed a
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: bit of seed into his life. Yeah. Now, on the
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: way back, let me tell you the story on the
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: way back. It was getting dark and we said, oh,
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: we've got to go back. Our app on our phone,
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: Uber app, wasn't working. And like, what are we going
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: to do? It doesn't work. And you know your shopping mouths,
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: they're huge. It's like, well, what are we going to do?
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: We're stuck. I said to Killy, I've asked Ask that
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: lady if she knows about Uber apps. So she goes
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: up to this lady, says, you don't know anything about
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: Uber apps and why our app isn't working. Oh, she said, no,
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I know nothing about that. And she says,
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: where have you got to go? And Keeley said, well,
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: we're staying at this hotel. And she says, oh, I
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: know where that hotel is. She says, I'll take you.
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: Oh, my.
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: Now, it's getting dark. And I'm thinking, who does that?
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: So we're walking with her now to the car park.
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: I said to Kelly, you sit in the front and
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: I'll sit in the back so I can keep an
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: eye on her. And we get in the car. She
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: starts driving. And this is my opening line. What's been
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: going on in your life? And she said, well, my
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: whole world has collapsed. My son overdosed and died four
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: weeks ago. We spent 20 minutes ministering to her in
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: the car. We got there. We went up to the
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: hotel room, brought some resources, gave her a cross, prayed
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: with her, suggested a church that she might like to visit.
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: And then our Uber app started working.
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: You know, I think people often say, I want to
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: be used by God. I want to go into the ministry.
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: I want to cross the sea for Christ as a missionary. Hey,
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: try crossing the street and talking to a neighbor. Try
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: initiating a conversation with an Uber driver like you do.
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: Because as Jesus said, lift up your eyes and look,
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: the fields are white unto harvest. And J. John, you've
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: been preaching the gospel for how many years now?
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: 48 years. Wow. Can I say this? Can I say this, Greg?
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: I'm not growing old. I'm older, but growing. Isn't that true?
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: I want to keep learning. I want to keep growing.
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: I want to keep shaping and sharpening. So anyway, sorry.
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: Well, so you've been preaching the gospel around the world,
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: but especially in Europe and the UK specifically, have things
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: changed like the kinds of Like we talked about Christine
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: Kane years ago, her challenges to you. Would you face
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: different challenges today, especially from young people, or is it
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: the same kind of response?
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: Well, what I've noticed is this, Greg. When I first
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: started out as an evangelist, I was doing obviously youth weekends,
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: youth missions, and then I started doing universities and colleges. Yes.
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: And I did a lot about, I did 102 universities
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: around the world. Now, what was interesting during that season
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: was that you're trying to communicate Christianity is true. This
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: is how we know it's true. Today, the emphasis is,
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: does it work?
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: People, when I did youth missions, they were receptive. When
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: I did university missions, they were receptive. Today, Greg, I
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: think there's more receptivity than I have ever seen in
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: 48 years. There are, again, you know, we don't want
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: to say, oh, there's revival, but I think we're seeing
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: signs of revival, signs, because everywhere we go, It's packed,
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: irrespective of the size of the arenas or the cathedrals
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: or the churches. It's packed. And we're seeing more people
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: respond than we've ever seen.
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: That's fantastic. What has been the effect in the UK?
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: We see it in Paris. We see it in other
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: countries in Europe, the influence of Islam. And when you
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: encounter people who are Muslims, how do you engage them
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: in a conversation?
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, what's very interesting is that I've noticed
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: how the press obviously are only interested in bad news. Yeah.
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: They're only interested in negative things. And the way it's
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: presented is incorrect. And a lot of it is being fabricated.
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: And they don't report on the good news. They don't
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: report on the growing churches. They don't report, you know,
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: however many churches got planted this month and the growth
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: of the churches. I mean, I read this morning that
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: 600 people got baptized by the sea just up in Yorkshire.
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean? That won't get reported in
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: the secular press. Now, London, of course, is very cosmopolitan.
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: And the way we would approach it is we never,
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: ever put anyone else down. We just lift Jesus up.
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: He is the way, the truth, and the life. So
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: we're always presenting Jesus. And there's a wonderful ministry in
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: Oxford called OCCA, Oxford Centre for Christian Apologetics. And they
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: have some of the finest apologists who dialogue with people
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: of any faith Or no faith. Right. And so that's
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: going on.
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: That's fantastic. Now, are you still doing stadium type events? Yes.
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: Yes. We, we're, we're committed. I mean, I, Jesus spoke
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: to 5,000 families. So that's 20, 25,000 people.
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: Sure.
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: But he also went to Levi's home.
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: And spoke to his colleagues. Yeah.
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: So that, you know, could have been 20. But then
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: he also stopped at a well and spoke to one.
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: And we've always tried, Greg, you know, let's stop and
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: speak to the ones. Let's do the little events like
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: Levi's Home. And if God gives us bigger opportunities, we'll
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: take them. And we did the Emirates Football Stadium in London,
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: which was the home of Arsenal Football Club. And we
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: were about to do a whole load more and then
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: COVID hit. And that kind of pulled us back. But
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: I feel the Lord has said, it's like a bow
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: and arrow. You have to pull the arrow back for
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: it to go further forward. And we're now becoming more
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: intentional in doing more stadiums around the United Kingdom.
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: I love that. Now, you've written a new book with
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: an interesting title that I personally relate to, Will I
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: Be Bald in Heaven? And other curious questions. Yes. So
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: let's start with that question. Will, maybe I should say we, will, J. John,
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: will we be bald in heaven or will we have hair?
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: Well, listen, you know.
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: No, I'm bolder than you. You still have something going
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: on up there.
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: I do.
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: I have nothing. I do.
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: No, but you know, what's really interesting, that's an apologetic book, Greg.
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: And when you give it to somebody who's an unchurched person,
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: it's incredible the curiosity that the cover, the title produces. Yes.
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: So I'm trying to come at a different angle to
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: engage with people. And of course, that's one of many,
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: many different questions. But of course, the question raises, you know,
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: what are we going to look like in the presence
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: of the Lord God Almighty? And I think the thing
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: is this, you know, today, so many people, they think, oh,
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: the grass is greener over that side of the fence.
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: or the grass is greener over this side of the fence.
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: But the reality is the grass is not greener over
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: that side of the fence, and it's not greener over
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: this side of the fence. It's greener when you water it.
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: And it's about learning contentment. And the one thing we
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: will have when we're with the Lord, we will be
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: absolutely and utterly content with who we are.
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: One thing I like to say is, you know, Why
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: would you assume that you would have hair? What if
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: hair is a part of the curse? What if in
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: our new body we're all bald? And that was the
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: original plan. Maybe. No bad hair days, right?
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: No bad hair days.
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: I know.
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: Absolutely.
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of confusion about heaven. like what heaven
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: is like. You know, I like the way C.S. Lewis
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: wrote about heaven. You know, he called our life on
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: earth the shadow lands.
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: And he was the one, and I'm loosely paraphrasing, who said,
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: you know, heaven is not a watered-down version of earth.
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: Earth at its very best is a glimpse of greater
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: things to come, right? Yes. And in heaven, you know,
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: the Bible tells us in heaven that we'll eat water,
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: the wedding supper of the Lamb. It tells us that
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: we will work, we will serve, we will recognize one another,
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: we'll be reunited with loved ones who have died in faith,
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: who have preceded us. We'll have new adventures together. And
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: there's so many false ideas about heaven, and the Bible
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: speaks about heaven quite and gives us certain details and
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: other things we don't know. But give us a few
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: thoughts about heaven, maybe some things people wouldn't know.
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: Well, interestingly, one thing, how the Bible says that the
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: length of a good life is three score years and ten. Yes. Okay,
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: so that's 70 years. Okay, so if we allocated 10
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: years per day of the week, You know, 10 years
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: for Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday. OK, you and I, Greg,
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: where are we? Where we've walked through Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday,
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: Sunday morning, Sunday afternoon. Yeah. How's your weekend looking?
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And now some of us have been given an
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: extra Monday. Some have been given an extra Tuesday. Very,
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: very few people. ever get given an extra Wednesday. But
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: even if we were given three score years and 10
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: and three extra days and live till we're a hundred,
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: that is just the blip. Yes. On the eternal screen. Right.
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: And that's something I know you've done this having listened
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: to you, Greg, we're trying to help people realize that
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: their lives here on earth is a blip. Yeah. on
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: the eternal screen. My favorite verse has to be John 3, 16.
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: Yes, of course.
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: For God so loved the world, he gave his only son,
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: so whoever believes in him shall not perish, but have
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: everlasting life.
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: He doesn't want us to perish, hence his coming, his death,
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: his resurrection. And I know this, Greg, and I'm convinced
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: by this, that without Christ, we have a hopeless end.
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: But with Christ, we have an endless hope.
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: And I'm convinced by that. And if I preach at
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: a funeral of someone who loved Jesus, I can preach
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: that with utter confidence. We have an endless hope in
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: the presence of in the purity of Jesus, when I
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: think about that, it just warms my heart.
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: Amen. And speaking of hope, you know, the Bible refers
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: to the return of Christ as the blessed hope.
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: Do you believe Jesus is coming again?
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: Oh, I absolutely do believe that. He is coming again.
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: I believe that. And I know every century, you know,
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: it's going to be soon.
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: It's going to be soon.
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: It's going to be soon. Greg, I believe it's going
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: to be soon.
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: I do.
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: And, you know, the Lord has given us this incredible
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: technological opportunity to now engage with people all over the world.
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: I was stunned when I was in Kenya and we
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: went to meet the Maasai uh tribe leaders we we
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: were on this uh in this car it wasn't four-wheel
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: drive and we're like shaking like this on on a
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: road but it wasn't really a road for four hours
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: to go and meet the Maasai leaders and we got
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: into the middle of nowhere sitting there with the Maasai
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: leaders and then the phone goes and the Maasai leader
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: says oh I'm sorry I've got to take this call
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: he was on his phone everyone's got one yeah everyone's
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: got one and now you know we can reach the
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: world we.
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: Really can i think for the first time maybe in
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: human history we literally through the use of technology and
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: other uh platforms we could fulfill the great commission it's
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: just do we want to will we do it? Will
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: we take the initiative? Or will we sit back passively? But,
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: you know, and I think this speaks to every Christian
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: because … You know, we call them influencers now, a
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: whole new category of people. And some of these influencers
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: have millions of people that follow them, millions of people.
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: But no matter if you have millions or if you
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: have five, every Christian can be an influencer. Every Christian
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: has a platform. Every Christian has a pulpit. And by
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: a pulpit, I mean you have a sphere of influence.
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: You have people there. that you can reach. And I'd
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: like to personalize the Great Commission. The Great Commission is
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: go into all the world and preach the gospel. But
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: you can look at it another way. Go into all
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: of your world and preach the gospel. I heard one
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: preacher sum it up as it's frangelism. F-R-A-N. Friends, relatives, associates,
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: and neighbors. You know, go to your world and preach
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: the gospel.
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: Absolutely. And the Great Commission, Jesus said So the first
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: disciples go into Jerusalem, then Judea, then Samaria, then the
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: ends of the earth. So what did Jerusalem represent to
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: the first disciples? Well, that was where they denied him.
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: So Peter denied him publicly. Where were they at the crucifixion?
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: Only John was there. So Jesus was basically inferring, I
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: want you to start in the place of your greatest failure.
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: Well, that's a good point.
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: And where is that for us? It's with our family,
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: our friends. our neighbors and our colleagues.
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: So if we're going to reach the world, let's reach
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: our world by reaching and cultivating the web of relationships
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: we have already got. One of the things, like yourself, Greg,
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: you know, we're grateful and humbled that we get invitations.
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: People want us to go and preach the gospel. But now,
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: if they want me to go and preach the gospel,
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: I have stipulations now. One, are you going to pray?
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: First of all, I need to know that you're going
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: to take prayer seriously if I come and if I
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: preach the gospel. Two, will you encourage everybody in your
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: church to bring a plus one? Now, I'm not demanding it.
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: What I'm saying is at least get them to ask somebody.
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: So if hypothetically the church has got, you know, 500 members,
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: if everybody brought a plus one, that means we've got
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: a thousand people.
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: It's not rocket science.
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: And you might have to ask three people to get one. Yeah.
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: Ask three people. Thirdly, are you going to help the
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: people that want to receive Christ or are curious to
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: know more? And are you going to follow them up
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: and nurture them? And if they can't guarantee prayer, invitations,
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: and follow-up, I say no. I'm not coming. Don't waste
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: my time.
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, that's a great commission, isn't it? The great
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: commission in Matthew is go into all the world and
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, teaching them to
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: observe all things that I have commanded you. Then Mark's
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: version is go into all the world and preach the gospel.
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: Really, gospel proclamation is not just a proclamation moment. It's preparing.
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: It's preaching. It's follow-up. It's discipling. You know, teaching them
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: to observe all things that I've commanded you. That's discipleship. And,
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: you know, you mentioned your friend, I think, was your
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: friend Andy that helped you get started? So I had
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: an Andy in my life in another part of my conversion.
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: No one actually shared the gospel with me, strangely enough.
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: I don't know why. I think there was something off-putting
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: about my demeanor. But I came across the Christians on
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: my high school campus having a meeting. I heard the
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: gospel and I responded. But a guy that I'd never
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: met came up to me named Mark and he said,
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: I saw you make a commitment to Christ. I said, yes,
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: I did. He goes, I want you to come to
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: church with me. And I said, well, no, no, thank you.
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: I don't want to. No, I want you to come
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: to church. No, that's okay. No, tell me you're righteous.
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: I'm going to pick you up and take you to church.
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: I kept turning this guy down. He was persistent in
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: the best way possible. And before I knew it, I
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: was in his car. I was going to church. And
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: once I got there, I loved it, of course. And
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: then he took me to his home. which was a
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: Christian family, and they prayed before their meal and talked
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: about the Bible together. I'd never experienced anything like that.
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: So he was effectively discipling me. But boy, if he
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: had not stepped in at that point, I could have
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: so easily fallen away.
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And the Great Commission, you can break it down
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: to three words. Make disciples. So that's the first one.
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: You've got to make them. Then you baptize them. So
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: you make them. Then you have to mark them. You
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: have to identify them as believers and then teach them
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: all that I've commanded you. You mature them, make them,
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: mark them, mature them. And I think the problem we
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: have is that sometimes we go to churches where they've
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: never been made, but we've marked them and we're trying
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: to mature them. Or they have been made, but nobody's
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: marked them and we're trying to mature them. Or they
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: have been made and marked, but we're not maturing them.
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: But that's the goal. Make them, mark them, mature them.
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: And today, Greg, I find, I mean, across the pond
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: here in England, research is indicating that 18 to 30-year-olds
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: are just buying the Bible.
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: They're just buying the Bible, and they're turning up at church.
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: They're just turning up at church, uninvited. So that's why
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: I said earlier on in our conversation, there are signs
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: of revival. God... is doing something. There's a church in
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: the north of England, Greg, where there are several hundred
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: Iranian Christians. Wow. And all of them testify and say
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: they met Jesus in a dream. You know, God's on
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: the move.
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: God's moving. He's revealing himself.
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: Isn't that amazing? Yes, it's really true. So let's shift
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: gears for a moment from the sublime to, well, not
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: the ridiculous, but just human things. Like, I want to
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: ask you a little bit about yourself.
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: Like, first of all, I'm mystified by English food.
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: Last time I was in London, I was on a
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: quest for some good fish and chips. Yes. I went
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: to five places. I don't think I ever found the
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: ones I was looking for, but I was ordering breakfast
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: and there was something on the menu called Bubble and Squeak.
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: Oh, my word.
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: What on earth is that?
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, oh, goodness. Yeah, I personally wouldn't have it myself,
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: but I know some people like it.
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: What is it?
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: I think it's a mixture of kind of leftovers from
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: a lot of other bits of food.
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: All kind of put together. So instead of saying these
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: are the leftovers, let's call it Bubble and Squeak.
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: Great thinking. They're saying, these Americans, they want these weird things.
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: We'll just call a bubbling squeak and serve it to them.
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: That was my English accent. I know.
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: It's great. I love it.
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: We've talked about the Beatles many times. Yes. You know,
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: I'm a big Beatles fan and you were so kind
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: to present to me, and I have it right in
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: front of my computer screen, a beautiful little yellow submarine,
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: but it's vintage. It's probably from the late 60s. And
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: you push these little levers and the individual beetles pop up. Right.
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: So recently I had the opportunity to meet Ringo Starr. Oh, my.
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: It was his birthday party. A friend of mine was
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: invited and he said, would you like to come with
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: me to Ringo's birthday? Before he could finish the sentence,
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: I said, yes, I want to come with you. So
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: it was a very brief moment where we were allowed
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: to go back into this little tent and shake hands
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: with Ringo and get a picture with him. And so
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: we waited our turn, and then we walked in. And
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: I have to say, Ringo looks fantastic. He's in his 80s.
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: He's very trim. He was dressed super cool. He was
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: very nice. And it's so funny to meet someone like
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: that in person who you've seen on video and in
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: movies and hear their voice. And there they are, the
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: actual person. But we're talking. We got our picture. And
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: when we were done, I just sat down. Everybody probably
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: gushes over Ringo and tells him what they love about
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: his music. And I thought, has anyone ever shared the
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: gospel with him? It wasn't really a moment where I
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: could do a full court press, but I thought I
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: was just going to sow a seed and see what happens.
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: I said, and maybe I shouldn't have done this, Jay John.
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: I put my hand on Ringo. Ringo's shoulder, just briefly,
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: I said, Ringo, I want to tell you something. He
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: looked up at me and I said, I want to
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: tell you that Jesus Christ loves you. Yes. And he
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: looked at me. He seemed a little surprised. Probably the
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: person who took me there was surprised as well. Like,
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: why did I bring you here? But hey, I'm an evangelist.
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: This is what I do. I can't, you know, I
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: thought I got to sow this seed in this guy's life.
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: His response was quite amazing, J. John. I said, has
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: anyone ever told you that Jesus Christ loves you? Immediately,
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: Ringo said, I go straight to God. And I was
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: a little taken aback by that, like, wait, what? I mean,
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: because when I've said this to other people, usually, even
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: if they're non-believers, they'll say, well, thank you, right? But
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: I go straight to God. And before I could come
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: up with an answer, my wife, who was standing next
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: to me, said, well, Jesus is God. And then there
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: was this awkward moment of silence. We all kind of
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: looked at each other and I said, oh, Ringo, it's
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: a pleasure to meet you. And we left. But it
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: was an interesting thing, you know, because I've heard that
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: Ringo is open to spiritual things. And I've even heard
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: some say, oh, Ringo's a Christian now. Well, you know,
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: but I just feel like we got to go out
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: there and sow the seed because I feel like when
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: I have these opportunities to meet someone like that are
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: just people in general, like you and your Uber driver,
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: like you and the lady that drove you back to
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: your hotel. These can be divine moments. So we need
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: to keep our spiritual antenna up like the Bible says.
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: be instant in season and out of season, or another
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: translation says, be on duty at all times.
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: Absolutely. It's this intentionality, Greg. I mean, in the morning
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: when Kelly and I pray, we say, well, Lord, this
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: is what's in our schedule today. But Lord, we pray
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: for divine appointments.
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: And help us to be alert to them. Help us
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: not to be so full today that we miss any
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: other divine appointments. And I think when you pray a
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: prayer like that, and you're intentional, It's like your antennae
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: can pick up where you need to go, who you
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: need to engage with.
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: It's a here I am, send me prayer. So, OK,
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: I talked about bubble and squeak and you've told us
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: you don't like it. It's really the British version of leftovers.
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: So what do you like to eat? Maybe back home
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: in the UK or maybe when you're in America, like
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: when you're in America, is there a certain kind of
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: American food that you want to get when you're here?
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: Well, so when we're in America, well, the last time
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: we were with you, you said to me, where do
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: you want to go for lunch on Sunday? And I said, oh,
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: I really want a burger. Yes. And you took us
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: to a burger restaurant.
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: And … And I think the time before, I think
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: you said, where do you want to go? And I said, oh,
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: a steak. Because here in England, we don't really, we
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: don't go to steak restaurants. And we don't often eat
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: steak often. And if we do, it's absolutely tiny. You're like,
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: where is it?
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: Where is it?
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: So we try and make that a little bit of
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: a tradition when we're in the States. We either have
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: a burger or we have a fantastic steak.
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: What do you eat back home? What's your favorite go-to food?
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: Well, here, obviously, I love Greek food. Love Greek food.
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: And when we can, we would do that. either cook
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: it ourselves or get it. And I've got a great
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: wife who's a brilliant cook as well. But we also,
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: on a Friday night, if we are home and we're
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: on our own, we'll have fish and chips.
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: So you've mastered, what is the key to creating good
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: fish and chips?
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: Well, I've, Yeah. The thing is, it's about the oil.
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: The oil's got to be good and clean oil.
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: You want to make it crispy.
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: Because if it's not crispy enough, then it's kind of, oh,
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, that's right. And then, of course, you
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: can accompany it with some mushy peas.
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: Oh, I wouldn't do that, but yeah.
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: And a bit of tomato sauce. Yes.
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and your chips, when you say chips, you mean
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: what we would call French fries, right?
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: Yes, but the thicker ones.
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: So they're more crunchy and crispy.
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: Nice. Yeah. Now, do you like movies? Do you go
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: see movies?
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: We love movies, and we particularly love Christmas movies.
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: Oh, nice.
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: We love Christmas. Absolutely love Christmas. The whole season.
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: I've heard more than one person say, you remind them...
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: of Rowan Atkinson, best known for his role of Mr. Bean.
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: Did you see his Christmas movie?
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: I did.
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: It was really good.
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: It was good.
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: And it had kind of a little, there's sort of
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: a nativity scene part of it. Sure. And I was
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: kind of, I actually think Rowan Atkinson is a really
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: good actor. I've seen him in serious roles, but them Mr.
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: Bean characters, hilarious.
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: I know. I mean, he's a brilliant actor. He's a
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: brilliant actor. Yeah, he really is.
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: Do you resent it when people say you remind them
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: of Mr. B?
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: Well, and when, well, when they say that, it's not very,
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: it's not very encouraging, is it? But I suppose I love,
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: like yourself, I love a bit of humour. I love
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: a bit of comedy. It's not, I don't, Greg, you've
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: seen me preach several times. It's not like I try
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: and make people laugh. I just find things funny. It's
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: a bit like you. You just find things funny. And
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: I think the thing I've heard you preach many times,
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: and I think you and I, all we're trying to
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: do is be ourselves.
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's it.
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: We're not trying to be anyone. We're not trying to
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: put on a persona. You know, we're serious and we're funny. Yeah.
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: Because, you know, you have people can sometimes say you
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: remind them of Mr. Bean. And I have had a
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: lot of people saying I remind them a lot of
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: Brad Pitt. And it's a struggle. It's a struggle, J. John, honestly.
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: It's a struggle. All the time. Now, OK, so movies.
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: Give me your top three movies. Like, I love these
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: movies and I could watch them again.
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: Well, Christmas movies, I watch every year. It's a Wonderful Life.
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: Every year I watch it. I also watch one or
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: two different kind of versions of A Christmas Carol.
• 56:00
  Speaker 2: Oh, yes.
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: There's something so powerful about that story. Past, present, future.
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: In fact, I preached on that at Christmas. And, you know,
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: I tried to do, you know, Be as creative as
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: I can. Last Christmas, Greg, Kelly and I gave a
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: Christmas talk together. We sat on two stalls and we said,
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: we'd like to speak to you about three wise women.
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: And we spoke about Elizabeth, Mary, Anna. One was beginning
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: her life. One was midlife. One was at the end
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: of her life.
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: That's great.
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: One was dismayed. One was discouraged. One was disheartened. Let's
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: tell you their three stories. And we just told the
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: stories of the three wise women.
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: That's good. I might steal that idea from you. That's
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: a good.
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: One for sure. And it's amazing how when you tell
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: the stories, you know, who was the first Christian? Mary.
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: She literally received Christ. So you can end with Mary
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: was the first Christian. She literally received Christ and you
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: can receive Christ today.
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: That's true. He was in her womb and later he
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: came into her heart.
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: Absolutely.
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: I know. Yeah.
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: So let's talk about books. Like apart from the Bible,
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: what's one or two or three of your favorite books?
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: Over the years, Greg, I'm a reader.
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: I love reading.
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: Reading, reflecting. I'd have to say, you know, some of
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: the books that have probably impacted me the most are
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: books to do with spirituality. So a book called Prayer
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: by O. Hallisby. It's a really old book. I don't
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: know if you can get it now. That impacted my
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: prayer life. It just took me to another level. I
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: remember when I read a book called A Celebration of
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: Discipline by Richard Foster, where in that book he talks
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: about prayer, simplicity and fasting. It just introduced me to
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: areas of devotion and my own devotional life that kind
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: of took me deeper.
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: Nice.
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: And for me, Those kind of books. Of course, I've
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: read books that stimulated my mind, have educated me. But
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: in terms of personal impact, I think it's more spiritual
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: books like that. And, you know, last year, Greg, I
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: decided that I know this might sound funny, but I
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: decided not to read any books. I made a decision
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: and I made a decision that I would read the Bible. Now,
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: I read the Bible anyway, but I felt this kind
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: of read it, more, read it more. It was said
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: of John Newton, who wrote Amazing Grace, that if you
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: cut John Newton open, the Bible would have fallen out
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: of him because his blood was bibling.
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I've heard that before, yeah.
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: And you know, Greg, Yeah, it just, I've been listening
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: to the Bible more. Kelly and I have been listening
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: to the Bible more in the car when we travel
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: to events and meetings. We just put on the Bible,
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: hearing in the Bible. At breakfast, we put on David Suchet.
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: I love him.
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: And he reads the Bible. And we, I mean, this
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: morning we were on Galatians chapter three.
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: Some days we might listen to one chapter, other days,
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: five chapters. Yes. But I just felt like I was
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: reading books about the Bible rather than reading the Bible.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: Very good.
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: And I think I'm not legalistic. This year ahead, I'll
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: keep reading the Bible and I might pick up a book.
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: But it was just a year to focus.
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: Love that. I'm rereading. I've listened to many books of
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 2: the Bible read by David Suchet. And I just love
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: the way he reads it, you know. And you can
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: tell he believes it.
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 2: But then his voice and everything about the way he
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: presents it with his acting abilities when he's telling a story.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: It's a narrative. You know, he sort of, he knows
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: how to deliver a line, if you will. You know,
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: and you listen and go, wow, that's how you read
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: the Bible.
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: And I know him, Greg, and I asked him about it.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: And he said he practiced it before he recorded it.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: Oh, wow.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: So you didn't just open the Bible. Oh, what's the
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: next chapter? He really tried. How would it have been
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: read differently? How would, how's the writer?
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: Which is the words I've got to highlight.
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 2: That's right. If you could, okay, you've probably been asked
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: something like this before. If you could have dinner with
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 2: three other people, not Jesus, we would all invite him first,
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 2: but three people, living or dead, from history, just people
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: you've always admired and would love to talk to, who
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: would be at your dinner party as you sat down
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: to eat bubble and squeak?
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: Well, I'm an evangelist, Greg, and I know you're an evangelist,
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: but you're a church leader and many other things. But
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: as an evangelist, I would want to sit with some evangelists.
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: Of course, if I could sit with someone, a biblical character,
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: I'd love to sit with. Actually, I would love to
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: sit with St. Paul, but I would love to sit
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: with Mary, the mother of Jesus.
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: Of course, through history, I'd love to sit with George Whitefield.
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: I'd love to sit with John Wesley. Yes. I'd love
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: to sit with Jonathan Edwards.
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 2: Yes, good lineup. Did you see that movie called A
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: Great Awakening?
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: Oh, I loved it.
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: Wasn't that fantastic? It was heartwarming. Yeah, very good. A
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: very good telling of the story of Whitefield, a British preacher.
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: who really brought the first spiritual awakening in America before
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 2: we were America. I know.
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: And Greg, how did they do it without microphones?
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: He had a voice. Benjamin Franklin measured it and said
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: that he heard him speak and you could understand him
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 2: from a distance to a crowd up to 30,000 people.
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: I mean, I rely on amplification. One year we were
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 2: having a crusade in the stadium and, and I'm in
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 2: the middle of my message, and the sound went out.
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 2: Someone literally had unplugged it. And boy, I literally tried
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: to keep speaking. There's no way my voice could have projected.
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 2: He was gifted. He started out as an actor, and
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 2: he had an extraordinary voice that became a tool that
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 2: was used for God's glory, right?
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: And he was known, Greg, did you know that he
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: was known as the divine dramatist? Yes.
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: Because.
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: The way he presented the gospel.
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: The drama of it was so powerful. And then John Wesley.
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: I mean, he preached five times a day. Yes. Every day.
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: It's remarkable. I've read John Wesley's diaries. And I mean, wow.
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: I mean, well, come back to what you said. You said, oh,
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: which books have impacted you? I think John Wesley's diaries.
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: Just reading them. His diaries, amazing.
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 2: All my favorite authors are British. You know, I always
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: loved C.S. Lewis, of course. Spurgeon, still love Spurgeon. G.
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: Campbell Morgan, Martin Lloyd-Jones.
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 2: Just brilliant communicators.
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: Amazing. But you know, isn't it amazing, Greg, about Spurgeon?
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: He was only 19 when they appointed him. I mean,
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: just think, you know, We're almost reluctant today to appoint
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: a 19-year-old to be one of our pastors. We would say, oh, oh,
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: come back in 10 years, wouldn't we? Not 19. But
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: then people would go to, I mean, when he took
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: it over, it was tiny, his church. But then, what,
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: on a Sunday morning, there's 5,000 seated, 1,000 standing. And
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: people would say to him, Spurgeon, what is the secret?
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: What is the secret? And he would reply, it's the
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: engine room. And they'd go, what do you mean the
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: engine room? He goes, it's Monday night. 1,000 people come
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 1: here to pray. But of course, when he first started,
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: there was only two people and then four, then eight,
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: then 16. But at the height of what was going
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: on with all the thousands coming, Monday night prayer meeting,
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: 1,000 people, Every Monday night.
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: Unbelievable.
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: That's the engine room.
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: Yes. So speaking of sermons, if you were to give
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: one last sermon, what would the topic be and what
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 2: would the text be?
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: Okay, Mike, right. The text would be John 3, 16.
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 2: You mentioned that.
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: Which we quoted earlier, but for God so loved the world,
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: he gave his only son. Whoever believes in him shall
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: not perish, but have everlasting life. And my message would
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: be the great invitation. It's an invitation from Jesus, the
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: King of Kings. It is to you and to me.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: And it's about three things. Forgiveness from the past, new
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: life here today, and a hope for the future.
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 2: If you were to meet a younger version of you,
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 2: a young J. John, what advice would an older J.
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 2: John give to a younger one?
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: I would say, pray more, be still and know that
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: I am God. Be led by the Spirit and keep
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: in step with the Spirit. Don't run ahead. Don't fall behind.
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: This is very interesting, Greg. In Genesis, God walked in
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 1: the garden. In the New Testament, in the Gospels, the
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 1: Son of God walked. In the whole Bible, God only
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 1: ever walks except one place. He only ran once in
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: the whole Bible, and that was towards a prodigal. So
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: the pace of God is walking unless it involves prodigals.
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 2: I love that.
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: And I think sometimes, Greg, you know, unless the Lord
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: builds the house, the laborers labor in vain. And, you know,
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 1: I'm always, Lord, is this a good idea or is
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: it a God idea? If I'm building it, it's going
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: to fall down. If you're building it and I can
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: join in the building work, it's going to be great.
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 2: That's fantastic. Do you have... It's hard to say. You know,
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 2: people will sometimes say, will you write a verse, sign
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 2: my Bible, which I always feel a bit uncomfortable doing
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 2: because I didn't write it. But I understand what they
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 2: are asking. And they'll say, and put a favorite passage down. Yeah.
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 2: And I do a favorite. I have many favorite passages.
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 2: It depends on what I'm dealing with, what I'm facing.
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 2: And I have certain go-to verses. One I was just
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 2: thinking about the other day. I've quoted it so many times.
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 2: But I just... It's just, to me, the most mind-blowing statement.
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 2: Don't worry about anything. Pray about everything. And the peace
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 2: of God that passes all human understanding will guard your
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 2: heart and mind in Christ Jesus. I mean, I can't
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 2: tell you how many times when facing something that could
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 2: cause me to worry or panic or whatever else it is,
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 2: I just remind myself, don't worry about it. Pray about it.
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 2: Do you have a verse that you go to often?
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 2: I do.
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I'm a bit like you, Greg. You know, sometimes
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: you feel like you've got to give them a little
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: personal encouragement. and then other times, oh no, give them
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: a bit of a challenge. So yeah, sometimes if it's a,
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: you know, a personal encouragement, I might put them a
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 1: prayer like 3 John 2, where you're praying for them
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: in body, mind and spirit. And, or I might encourage
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 1: them be a bit more challenging. Uh, and I might
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 1: put Micah six verse eight, you know, what does God
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: require of us? Well, he requires three things of us
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: to do justice, love, mercy, and walk humbly with God.
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: You know, which is interesting, isn't it? When you're asking God,
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: what does he require of us? And that's the answer.
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 2: If I asked you to sign my Bible, what verse
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 2: would you put down for me?
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: Um, Well, I would put to my dear, dear friend,
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: Pastor Greg Laurie, who loves the Beatles. I would probably
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 1: put something that would surprise, that would surprise you.
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 2: Okay, we'll hold that till I see you and you
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 2: can write in my Bible.
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: And I think I would put You know, I would
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: put in your Bible, the wording I probably would put is,
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 1: well done, good and faithful servant. You have been faithful
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: and you have been fruitful, Greg. You really have. And
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: you've impacted, God has used you to impact more people
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 1: than you know. I've been inspired just listening to you preach.
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: You've done more than just ministering your own church and
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 1: in the stadiums that you do. And you've been faithful
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 1: and you've been fruitful. So I think I would say
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: that and I would find a scripture to kind of
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: back that up for you.
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 2: I love that. Thank you. Well, next time I see you,
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 2: I want you to write that on my Bible.
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 1: I will.
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 2: And thank you for all that you do, J.
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 1: John.
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 2: I mean, what you just said is very kind. And obviously,
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 2: I would say the same for you. Of course, those
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 2: are the final words of the Apostle Paul in 2 Timothy.
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 2: He lived longer after that, of course, but my son
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 2: went to be with the Lord 18 years ago, and
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 2: I wrote those words of Paul, I fought the good fight,
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 2: I kept the faith, I finished the course, and And
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 2: I pray that as you continue on, that for the
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 2: many years that God gives you, you know, that he'll
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 2: use you powerfully, that he'll give you visions of things
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 2: you've never thought of before, and that you will take
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 2: ground you've never considered taking before, you know, and that
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 2: you will be led by the Lord to reach unexpected
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 2: people in unexpected places with an unexpected message, the message
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 2: of the gospel. You're a gift to the church, not
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 2: to the Church of England itself, or the Church of Europe.
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 2: You're a gift to the worldwide church.
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 2: Thank you for all that you do and your wonderful wife.
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 2: And thanks for being on my podcast. It's been fun
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 2: talking to you.
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: Thank you for having me on, Greg. God bless you
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 1: and love to Kathy and the church. Thank you.
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 2: Thank you.