Latest / Love, Happiness and Success with Dr. Lisa Marie Bobby / Giving Everything... Then Giving Up? How to Find Your Sustainable Pace | Happiness | E541

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Giving Everything... Then Giving Up? How to Find Your Sustainable Pace | Happiness | E541 · Love, Happiness and Success with Dr. Lisa Marie Bobby

• 0:03
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  Speaker 1: your order and three hundred and sixty five day returns
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  Speaker 1: Quinns dot com slash lhs. Now onto the show. Okay,
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: who else can relate.
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: You? Crush it?
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: You have a big week, you do all the things,
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  Speaker 1: and then after that you just absolutely collapse. You sit
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: on your phone for hours at a time, you eat
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: cereal for dinner, you cannot remember anything. It's almost like
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: you kind of fall apart a little bit. And then
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: a couple days later you're sort of feeling restored, but
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: you have fallen behind on everything and feel kind of panicky,
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: and that vicious cycle starts all over again.
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  Speaker 2: What we tend to do is we tend to sort
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  Speaker 2: of keep giving one hundred and ten percent, putting it
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  Speaker 2: all on the line until we reach the total, absolute
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  Speaker 2: limit of our capacity.
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  Speaker 1: If you just felt seen just then, this episode is
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  Speaker 1: for you, because this is a known pattern. It is
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: a pendulum swinging, it has a name, it has science
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  Speaker 1: behind it, and thank goodness, there is also a way out,
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  Speaker 1: and that's what we're talking today on this episode of Love,
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: Happiness and Success.
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  Speaker 2: It is so easy to kind of stay in that
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  Speaker 2: all out piece, like what's become the default piece for
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: so many of us us and then we kind of
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: get tunnel vision. We're not seeing the damage to our
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: mental health, to our physical health that starts to pile
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  Speaker 2: up as a result of them.
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: My guest is Elizabeth the Voda, and if her name
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: doesn't yet ring a bell, it will it will. She
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: is already the author of three books, and the latest
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  Speaker 1: one is called The Art of Pacing.
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  Speaker 2: Breathing at a specific peace that research shows really does
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  Speaker 2: calm your nervous system. To get even more specific, it's
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: the piece where there's the greatest variation between the way
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: your heart rate speeds up as you breathe in and
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: how it slows down as you breathe out. So what
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: you're doing with modulation is you're getting yourself in the
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  Speaker 2: state where your heart rate variability is going to be
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  Speaker 2: the highest.
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  Speaker 1: She is a science researcher.
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  Speaker 2: Is that the right way to say it, I would
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: say I'm a science writer. I'm a contributor to Scientific American,
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  Speaker 2: Greater Good Magazine, Boston Globe Ideas. I just work with
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  Speaker 2: a lot of different editors about ideas that interest me
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  Speaker 2: and that I think will be important to others as well.
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  Speaker 2: And just kind of hot. How do you bring yourself
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  Speaker 2: up to where you want to be in terms of
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  Speaker 2: your potential and reaching your highest goals? Yeah?
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  Speaker 1: Amazing, Well I love that, And first of all, thank
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  Speaker 1: you for being here with us today to share everything
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  Speaker 1: that you've learned. But I love it that you're in
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  Speaker 1: this position of being able to absorb and synthesize all
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: kinds of information from all sorts of different sources. And
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  Speaker 1: I am so excited to learn more about what you've
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  Speaker 1: learned around this pattern, this pendulum, this like all the
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: way on and then collapse in a heap phenomenon?
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  Speaker 2: Is the right name for it? Burnout?
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  Speaker 1: Or do you call it something else in your work?
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  Speaker 2: What is this? I do think it's kind of a
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  Speaker 2: pen swinging effect. We live in a society that rewards
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: going one hundred and ten percent and that really gets
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: embedded in us from our earliest years. We need to
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: work harder. We need to put everything on the line,
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  Speaker 2: like we need to put our noses to the grindstone,
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  Speaker 2: whatever you want to call it. So most of us
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  Speaker 2: never learn how to dial that back when we're younger,
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  Speaker 2: and so what we tend to do is we tend
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  Speaker 2: to sort of keep giving one hundred and ten percent,
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  Speaker 2: putting it all on the line until we reach the
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  Speaker 2: total absolute limit of our capacity, and then we tend
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  Speaker 2: to crash out. And then the pendulum swings toward the
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  Speaker 2: opposite extreme, like we're so crashed out that we need
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  Speaker 2: to withdraw for a while because our body is showing
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  Speaker 2: the damage, like our minds are fried and frazzled, and
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  Speaker 2: so so then we go through this kind of recovery period,
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  Speaker 2: but then inevitably the pendulum swings back again the next
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  Speaker 2: time we decide we want to dive into something a
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  Speaker 2: hundre percent.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, you can go too far, Like when you're
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  Speaker 1: you're resting aka not doing anything, and you know, laundry
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  Speaker 1: mountain is piling up, and there's all the stuff and
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: there's no food in the refrigerator and you're buying on work,
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: and that that struggle is real too, that you can't
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: just stop. Certainly, we were just visiting prior to starting
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: to record this episode, and you know you mentioned that
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: you have kids, right, like there's some balls that you
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: can't drop all the way to the bottom of the
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: pool there, so you.
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: Know, absolutely right, right?
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  Speaker 1: So Okay, So then I guess I'm so curious where
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  Speaker 1: like what an interesting thing to focus on for a book,
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  Speaker 1: And I just I have to know, is there a
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  Speaker 1: personal connection to this?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah? I do think a lot of the inspiration for
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: this book came out of my piecing failures to be
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  Speaker 2: honest with you, like the way I grew up, Like,
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: especially in the school system I grew up in. It
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: was like if people thought you had potential, they wanted
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  Speaker 2: you to push that potential to the mass, like you
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: were supposed to be perfectly productive. Like A ended up
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: being the kind of kid who signed up for ten
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  Speaker 2: ap courses. And it was kind of reinforcing because I
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  Speaker 2: got praise for taking this much fun from my family,
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  Speaker 2: from my teachers, et cetera, but nobody really ever Like
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  Speaker 2: I got so much encouragement from teachers, but no one
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  Speaker 2: ever really advised me to pull back a little bit
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  Speaker 2: or think about why I was taking on all the
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: things that I was taking on, and I was just
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  Speaker 2: spread so thin. And then I think, like a lot
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  Speaker 2: of us, I sort of took that mindset into adulthood
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  Speaker 2: with me and to this day, although I've learned better
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  Speaker 2: to check it, Like I sort of have this ingrain
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  Speaker 2: tendency I think to go out to as to go
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  Speaker 2: out all the way because that is so ingrained in me,
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: and so it is so easy to kind of stay
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  Speaker 2: in that all out piece, like what's become the default
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  Speaker 2: piece for so many of us, and then we kind
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: of get tunnel vision. We're not seeing the damage to
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: our mental health, to our physical health that starts to
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  Speaker 2: pile up as a result of that.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, I get that right, that there's a lot of
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  Speaker 1: i'll gas no breaks and that when we absorb those
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  Speaker 1: messages and do it like we could do it for
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  Speaker 1: a while, but then it starts to take a toll.
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  Speaker 1: Tell me about that part. I mean, you know, in
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  Speaker 1: your research and exploration that went in what into this book,
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  Speaker 1: what emerged as being the hidden consequences of this is
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: over achievement the right word or how do you term it?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, or just failure to control your pace, like just
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  Speaker 2: going all out without respite, I guess, is how I
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  Speaker 2: would put it. And so, of course those consequences are
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  Speaker 2: going to differ a little bit from one person or another,
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  Speaker 2: like it might show up in one person as steadily
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: rising blood pressure as week after week passes when you're
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: under so much stress at work. For me, sometimes it
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: shows up as when I start shooting bolt up right
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: in bed at four thirty in the morning, unable to
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  Speaker 2: go back to sleep. And so I think our bodies
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  Speaker 2: do sort of give us these warning signs that we're
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  Speaker 2: going too hard. The question is do we heed them
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  Speaker 2: before things progress down the line and could even touch
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  Speaker 2: off chronic conditions. I know for me, like if I
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  Speaker 2: let myself go with those early morning wake ups, I
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  Speaker 2: may plunge into a full blown bout of depression. And
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  Speaker 2: because that's happened to me in the past, I understand
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  Speaker 2: just how important it is to pull myself back from
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  Speaker 2: that brink before I fall in. And so I think
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  Speaker 2: so much of piecing, or the way that I think
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  Speaker 2: about piecing is like preparation or preemptive work. It's like,
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  Speaker 2: how do I make shifts early to pull myself back
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  Speaker 2: from the brink of whatever consequences are probably going to
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  Speaker 2: happen if I keep going the way I've been going.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that's well, thank you first of all for
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  Speaker 1: sharing that, But I mean, gosh, how much self awareness
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  Speaker 1: goes into that. And it sounds like you've done a
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  Speaker 1: lot of work and just observing your own patterns and
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  Speaker 1: have learned from experience. I think I think as we
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  Speaker 1: all have, right like what those limits are, and if
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  Speaker 1: we just override them that doesn't end.
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  Speaker 2: Well, that's so true, and I think so much of
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  Speaker 2: it is about checking in with yourself and knowing yourself
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  Speaker 2: better or more than often we allow ourselves to do. Yeah,
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  Speaker 2: being honest with ourselves about how do I feel right now?
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  Speaker 2: Like the fact that I haven't felt like eating in
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  Speaker 2: forty eight hours? Is this trying to tell me something
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  Speaker 2: about what I need to do to preserve my energy
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  Speaker 2: and preserve my health. And so a lot of it
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  Speaker 2: is about honesty and about reckoning, and then it's about
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  Speaker 2: I love this phrase that actually a former Olympic athlete
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  Speaker 2: and now coach taught me. She was like, well, kind
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  Speaker 2: of after you do this reckoning, you ask yourself what's
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  Speaker 2: the wise choice here? So you're kind of laying it
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  Speaker 2: all out for yourself like this is where I'm at,
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  Speaker 2: what's the next wise choice that I can make? And
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  Speaker 2: it has a way of focusing you on I guess
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  Speaker 2: two things, what you really need in that particular moment,
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  Speaker 2: and then what can you do realistically to meet that need?
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  Speaker 2: And often it's like an incremental thing. It might not
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  Speaker 2: be that you need to take all the rest of
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: the week off of work. It might be something like
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  Speaker 2: you want to take a ten minute walk, blow off
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: some steam, and then maybe text with a friend for
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: a few minutes, and then maybe you're feeling a little
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  Speaker 2: bit more centered and so and it's very responsive. It's
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  Speaker 2: kind of like you do what feels like the next
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  Speaker 2: wise thing, and then you ask yourself, what's the next
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  Speaker 2: wise thing? Now that I've done that, and I'm seeing
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  Speaker 2: how I feel in the wake of that, what's the
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  Speaker 2: next thing? And so it sort of becomes this kind
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  Speaker 2: of responsive piacing that you move from one wise choice
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  Speaker 2: to the next and the next.
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  Speaker 1: You've used the word pacing a few times, and I'd
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  Speaker 1: lot if you could just unpack that and tell us
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  Speaker 1: more about about what you mean. Is that, like is
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  Speaker 1: it slowing down or not? Not? All of the everything,
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  Speaker 1: all it was how do you define it?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it can involve slowing down, but just
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  Speaker 2: basically it's about being more deliberate about how you manage
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: your energies. So in some cases, in many cases, it
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: involves slowing down a little bit, like maybe pulling back
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: twenty per c from a volunteer commitment that you've had
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: that is really just taking up more hadspace than you
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  Speaker 2: want it to take up. But it can also involve
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: like after you've been in a period of more withdrawal,
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  Speaker 2: maybe you're speeding up a little bit, maybe you're allowing
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: yourself to burn a little bit more energy. And so
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  Speaker 2: I really do think about it as a process of
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  Speaker 2: energy management that is sustainable, Like, in other words, is
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  Speaker 2: the way that I am engaging and pulling back and
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  Speaker 2: the rhythm that I am finding in that is that
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  Speaker 2: something that I'm going to be able to keep up
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  Speaker 2: for years on end or for my entire lifetime. And
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  Speaker 2: if it's not, what changes do I need to make there? Yeah?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Okay, Well just kind of curiosity, have you
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  Speaker 1: found that there are differences in personality or wiring that
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: impact people's tolerance for this cause? Like even just as
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: we're talking and you know what, I could absolutely overdo
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  Speaker 1: it and can you know, get to that place or
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  Speaker 1: like i'd like fall over. But at the same time,
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  Speaker 1: like I I think I'm a high capacity person. I
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: like to go fast, I like to do a lot
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: of things, do you know what I mean? And so
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: it almost feels less comfortable for me sometimes to like
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: lay around on The problem is that I live in Colorado,
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: and so we have like a culture where everybody's like,
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: don't work so hard, come on, hang out, you know,
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: like that kind of thing. I'm like, now I have
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: to do stuff, and so like sometimes I feel bad
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: the other way because you know, just like wanting to,
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: you know, do things that I'm interested in. Have you
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: found that there's kind of a difference or is it?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, Like I think absolutely one person's right pace for
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: them at a particular time in their life maybe totally
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: different than somebody else's. Like you may have experienced it
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: even with people in your family, Like you may have
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: people that are more go go go, like on the weekends,
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  Speaker 2: they really feel like their weekend isn't complete unless they're
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: doing two or three different activities outside the house each day.
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  Speaker 2: Other people and honestly, this is more like me. On
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: the weekends, you just want to have time to read
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: and relax, and maybe you don't want to move your
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: body that much because you're doing so much of that
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: during the week And so I think a lot of
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: it is about learning to distinguish what feels like your
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: right piece from as you said, the pace that other
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: people maybe are telling you to keep. And I think
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: the problem that a lot of us run into is
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: we find it hard to distinguish between those two things.
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: Like sometimes what other people want for you, or the
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: pace that they want you to keep, is different than
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: the sustainable pace that feels right for you.
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: That is s I love this that this is very
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: self directed. We need to get in touch with ourselves
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: because someone else's definition of what this should be when
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: it is imposed on you, isn't going to fit. And
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: that's either somebody wanting you to go more and do
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: more and be more and move faster, or if somebody
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: wants to like unplug you from the activities that actually
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: give you a lot of energy and that feel fun
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: for you, even if it doesn't feel good for them.
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: And so that tuning into yourself sounds like it is
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: really important.
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: Exactly and it's so it's so important because what we
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: know is that when we engage in the things that
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: we love the most and the things that we give
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: that give us purpose, that energizes us, and that helps
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: us to feel happier and more fulfilled over the course
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: of our lives. So sometimes when I see this cultural
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: messaging like you know, live flat or or this kind
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: of thing feels so extreme in the opposite direction, like, no,
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: we probably don't want to be going one hundred and
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: ten percent all the time, But equally, we don't want
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: to be withdrawing all the time either, because that is
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: going to leave us feel drained and unfulfilled.
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, so Elizabeth, when you take a super quick break.
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: But on the other side, let's talk more about that,
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: because I think you know, in this first part we've
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: really been talking about what what does it look like,
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: what does it feel like? What does it do to
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: you if you're like maxing out to a problematic level,
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: right and then how to right size and restore some order.
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: But there's another part of that where it's it goes
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: too far in the other direction, and maybe you're not
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: actually challenging yourself enough or having enough honestly healthy stress
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: in your life, like some stress is actually really good
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: for us. Can we talk about that on the other
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: side of the break.
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: Yes, that is such an important point and I'd love
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: to delve into that.
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  Speaker 1: Quinns dot com slash LHS. Okay, we are back with
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  Speaker 1: Elizabeth Svoboda and she's talking about her new book, The
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: Art of Pacing, A Guide to balancing short term demands
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: with long term thriving. And so, Elizabeth, just before we
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: took our quick break, we landed on this interesting part
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: that I haven't heard a lot of people talk about.
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: That you could actually go too far in the other
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: direction in terms of withdrawal and plugging from things. Maybe
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: not challenging yourself appropriately or having enough healthy stress in
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: your life which creates a new set of problems can shake.
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: Us far into that. That is exactly right. What we
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: know from the research on what gives us fulfillment and
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: what makes us happy over the long term, it's that
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: when we're engaged in something that we care about, and
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: when we're giving something back to our community, to the
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: people around us. And so I'm not talking about taking
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: a week long vacation or something like that. That's one thing.
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: But if you are going into an extended withdrawal where
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: you're really not focusing on anything, you may start to
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: feel listless, you may start to feel unfulfilled, and you
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: may even descend into depression. I actually had an older
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: family member who has passed on many years ago now,
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: but he loved working his whole life, and after he
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: retired and he kind of went from one hundred to
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: zero overnight, he had a really extreme out of depression
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: that I think was related to him not being as
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: closely in touch with his purpose, with the way that
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: he was contributing. And so that's definitely something that we
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: always need to keep in mind in setting our right pace.
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: Like we want to pull back when it's needed to
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: preserve our health, to preserve our well being and everything else,
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: but there are reasons that we want to surge forward
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: too and move toward what gives us life, what gives
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: us purpose, and also what serves so many people around us,
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: And so finding that balance and being responsive to Okay,
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: when do I surge forward here? And when do I
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: pull back? What is most calling to me at this moment?
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: And how do I pursue that all of those things
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: are at the heart of successful piecing?
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: I think, Wow, you know, there are so many different
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: dimensions of this. As we're talking, Elizabeth, I mean, we've
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: talked about your core wiring. I mean I think that
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: people have different thermostats in terms of you know, what
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: they're in do. So there's that part, but there's also
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: so many messages from culture and family about achievement and
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: what you should be doing that can make us push
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: ourselves too hard, result in exhaustion and this disconnection from self.
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: But at the same time, there's this purposeful activity that
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: can also generate a lot of interest and curiosity and
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: excitement and meaning and joy even through this type of activity.
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: I mean, ideally, if your job is in alignment with
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: what you enjoy, that could be incredible. But on the
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: other side, too, even you know, a different contingent of
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: cultural messages around relaxation and trying too hard and self
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: care and bubble baths, and if we extend that, you
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: know further, then there can be this disconnection, this checked
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: out or even this almost helplessness. I've poken people in
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: both counseling and coaching that can sometimes internalize a narrative
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: around that it's too hard, it's too much, it's too
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: you know something, and they sort of limit themselves from
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: trying things or taking on new challenges because of these
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: self limiting core beliefs, which I think can become an
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: obstacle even to self confidence. You know, is actually serving
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: yourself doing hard things. This is where that comes from.
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: So that is such a good point. And while I
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: was writing this book, I did spend quite a bit
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: of time with athletes, and they are so good and
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: so smart at giving themselves sort of surmountable challenges. Like
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: they definitely have periods of their day when they're working hard,
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: when they are trying to go beyond what they've ever
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: done before, and it really does involve supreme effort, pushing
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: yourself beyond what you think you can do. But what
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: they do to recover from that, they will really give
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: themselves rest and give themselves recovery in the wake of
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: that extreme exertion. Right, that reflects what they've put into it.
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: And I think that that's the ingredient that so many
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: of us are missing. Yeah, it's so important to I
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: guess psychologists call it you stress yourself, like give yourself
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: that good stress that makes you grow. But then after that,
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: like give yourself that downtime, give yourself that. For me,
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: it's reading time. Reading is like the best way that
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: I unwind and get back to sort of a calm
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: nervous system baseline. And so again I think we come
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: back to this self knowledge, listening to what your body
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: and your mind need and kind of being like, Okay,
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: you did that, that was really hard, that stretched you
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: beyond your boundaries. Let's treat yourself a little bit in
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: the wake of that.
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, sure, okay, So then if it's okay with you,
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: I'd love to get your insight into two different parts
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: of this. Maybe first, if you have any thoughts or
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: recommendations around what seems to me like is probably the
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: hardest part of this, which is that that recognition part
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: of self awareness, So things people to be looking for
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: in themselves experiences, you know, thinking, or how they're feeling
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: that would give them insight into whether it's too much
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: or potentially not enough. Let's start there, and then on
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: the other side of the next break, I'd love to
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: hear your thoughts about, you know, things that you've seen
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: people do that are very effective in restoring that order
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: and balance and healthy examples. But yes, first of all,
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: did your investigation uncover any of the ways in which
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: people just even start bringing this into their awareness in
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: an intentional way? Maybe listening to a podcast, you know,
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: maybe there's a French here with us right now, Elizabeth,
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: who's like I never thought about any of this before,
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: but I think they're right. So what is the next
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: step in terms of like understanding your own limits?
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: Right? Well, I do think that at the foundation of
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: any good piecing plan, you need to really get in
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: touch with what brings you meaning in your life, Like
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: what are you really striving for? And that's why I
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: really devote a lot of time early in the book
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: to that. And one of the chapters presents an exercise.
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: It's called the restorying exercise, and there's kind of a
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: lot to it, but just to boil it down, it's
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: about finding the narrative thread that runs through your life
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: and almost envisioning your life as like a hero's journey,
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: Like if you are the protagonist on this journey, what
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: are you really after? What do you want the most,
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: what gives you the most fulfillment? What obstacles have you
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: faced along the way to that, how have you overcome those?
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: And what you have learned and the process. And then
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: I think the really important one is like what legacy
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: do you ultimately want to leave to your community and
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: to the people around you. And so I think as
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: you work your way through these questions or through these
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: story prompts. It really brings you face to face with
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: does what you're pursuing now on a day to day
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: basis actually align with these goals that come up when
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: you find the narrative threat in your life and the
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: legacy that you want to leave. And so when that
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: the things you're doing day to day or out of
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: alignment with those goals, you may need to do some
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: more fundamental reorientation as far as you're pacing, Like before
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: you try to piece yourself granularly on a day to
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: day level, like figure out how many hours you need
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: to rest after working and all of that stuff. This
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: underpinning and this foundation needs to be in place that
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: you really really feel like you're heading in a direction
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: that aligns with what what you want most or what
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: you want to leave to the world. So that's where
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: I always start with people.
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's amazing. Well gosh, that's how wise. You know,
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: don't take any action until you figure out what you
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: really want to do.
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: That's good advice. I mean I just thought that you
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: gotta start, got to start at the studs, and those
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: are the studs.
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: Well that's good though, but and it sounds like in
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: your book you're laying out a power question, so to speak,
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: journaling exercises that can help people really tap into what
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: what is the answer to that question to me in
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: terms of what what do I want? What do I
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: care about? But then you know, what you're talking about, Elizabeth,
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: is something that we do a lot of in you know,
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: my my field, so h you know my my background.
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: I'm a psychologist of a barriage of family therapist. But
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: what I do really now in my practice and have
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: actually begun working with other therapists to teach these competencies.
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: It's like a big part of my business at growing
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: self is that you know, the field of psychotherapy is
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: for the purpose of diagnosing and treating clinical mental health conditions,
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: and so like, right, you know what you so bravely
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: shared earlier. When it is capital D depression and it
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: has taken hold and people are really stuck in that
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: state like that, that's a different deal and that can
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: sometimes be the outcome of sort of self abuse over
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: a period of months or years. Right, Like, that's the
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: pool at the bottom of that particular water slide.
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: So there's that.
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: But with coaching and tying it back to what you
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: were saying is that a big part of what we're doing.
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: It's not therapy, it's not mental health treatment, there's nothing
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: wrong with you, but it is intentionally bringing visibility into
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: the gap between where you are in your life and
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: how you're operating and where you really want to be.
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: And sometimes even understanding that where do you want to
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: be part is quite challenging. And so what you're saying
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: is that that's honestly the first step of your process. Yeah,
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: illuminating that distance between where you want to go long term,
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: and then that reflection of is my way of being
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: in the world right now congruent with that outcome or
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: is it going to get in my way exactly?
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: That is so key and that comes up in the
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: research too, Like we know that when people feel like
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: they have what's called a sense of coherence in their lives,
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: like a sense that their lives have meaning, Yeah, they
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: are less likely to burn out down the line, like
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: they are just going to feel more energetic, probably on
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: a dayity basis, and so it all goes together, like
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: when you are in alignment with where you say you
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: actually want to go, every day is going to feel easier.
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: It's not going to feel like you're putting forwards as
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: much effort as if those things are not in alignment.
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, oh, you know that is such a good point,
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: And like, can I just highlight this for a second,
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: because this also, I think illuminates something that is so
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: important when it comes to some macro decisions, like even
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: what you do for work, you know, career exploration, career counseling.
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: I think some people like gloss by that, but there's
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: such a difference in somebody who's not really who doesn't
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: have that congruence or connection with what they do in
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: terms of their you know what, what they do for
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: a living. Where so if they think about spending eight
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: or ten hours doing that, there's like this, get me
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: out of here, like as fast as I can, Like
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: they need to go recover versual rights. Like what you
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: were just saying that if that is an alignment and
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: if it's really like energizing and joyful and if you
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: like it and it's interesting, you could do it for
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: sixteen hours a day and bad and I you know
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: what I mean, Like a there's a difference. It's not
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: just the time or the energy.
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah no, And some people just do that really well,
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: Like I know, for my husband, it's very hard for
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: me to tell the difference between what he does for
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: leisure and what he does for work, because what he
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: does for work, which is computer graphics stuff like, that's
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: also the fun stuff that he does in his free time.
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: And maybe not all of us can have that close
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: up an alignment. But ideally the work, what you're doing
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: day to day should be fun. It should be engaging.
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: Not to say it should never be hard. Sometimes it
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: will be hard, but it will feel like a good
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: kind of hard, like you're doing this for a reason.
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, oh, I love that so much. Well, and this
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: is so good because I think it also broadens the
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: conversation and it broadens the questions, right, because it's not
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: you know, are you pushing yourself too hard? Or are
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: you collapsing in ways that are all you know, get
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: back up again his own point. But like even like
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: a thirty thousand foot view around, what are you working
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: so hard at? And like is it the right thing
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: at all? Because it's a realm of energy applied to
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: something else could feel really different.
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah. No, to extend the metaphor, I guess it's like
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: what is your finish line? And yeah, some people haven't
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: thought about the finish line that much, which is yeah.
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: Well wey, we have to take another super fast break.
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: But on the other side of this, now that we've
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: been talking about like bringing these things into visibility, I
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: would love to get your thoughts about some of the
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: things that you've seen work for people who are seeking
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: to either restore balance and you know, pace and have
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: a more of a marathon instead of a superent kind
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: of orientation towards life, or also some of the big,
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: you know, fundamental resets where they can achieve more congruence
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: and close the gap on those bigger picture levels.
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, yes, let's do it.
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: You have million dollar business ideas and the confidence that
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: you can bring so much value into the lives of
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: others if you actualize these ideas. The issue is all
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: the operational details, shopping cards, checkouts, follow up emails, How
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: do people find out about you? How do you put
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: together a website with functionality? What about shipping, returns, follow
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: up emails? So many things, and that's why you need help.
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: Like Shopify. If you have a customer who's ready to pay,
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: Shopify checkout helps them finish their purchase when they come
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: back for more, one tap and they're done with Shopify.
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: Nothing stands between your amazing ideas and a real business.
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: Start your free trial at shopify dot com slash lhs
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: shopify dot com slash LHS. Yes, I did say free
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: trial at shopify dot com slash LHS. Elizabeth, we were
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: talking about some I think, big important pieces before the break,
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: around these macro decisions like who are you? What are
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: you doing with your life? Like those pieces, But then
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: you know, once you have some of those in your hand,
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: I'm curious to get your takes on some of the
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: actual strategies that you've seen people use to start to
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: restore balance in the force, so to speak, Like what
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: does it actually look like when people do this?
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, there are many strategies that you can try,
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: but one of the ones I love the most is
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: called energy management. And I'm sure many of you are
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: familiar with time management and you may have tried it,
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: like mapping your days by the fifteen minute or the
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: thirty minute increment, and like, I can't even tell you,
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: I have tried that, and every time I try, it
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: fails terribly because inevitably something comes up that I don't expect,
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: and the entire careful calendar that I spend thirty minutes
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: putting together, it gets shattered and I have to start
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: all over from scratch, which is like super frustrating, and
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: so that kind of doesn't work too well for me.
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: And I think with energy management the advantages. It's a
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: lot more flexible and it's in tune with your body's
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: natural rhythm. So how it works is you observe when
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: do you normally have the most energy and focus during
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: the day, And again, this may be something that's different
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: for everybody. For some people it's mid morning, like for me,
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: it tends to be between like nine thirty and eleven
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: thirty in the morning, but for some people it's later afternoon,
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: or for some people, like some creative people, I know,
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: it's like the wee hours of the night. And so
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: it's just knowing this about yourself, like when is that.
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: Some coaches call these like energy windows or like optimum
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: energy windows, and you kind of align your most important
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: or your most demanding work or projects during those times.
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: So essentially what's happening is you are riding your own
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: natural energy peaks. And the great thing about that is
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: that when you do that, you often get so much
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: done during that riding, like when you're riding the peak,
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: but at the same time, it feels like you're putting
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: in less effort because of the alignment with your peak.
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: Sometimes for me, like I know, after lunch, I have
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: a really hard time focusing, and you know, a lot
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: of us get into this post lunch slow where we
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: try to make ourselves do thirty minutes of work and
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: it feels like pulling teeth. But like the time I
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: start is so important. Like if I start at nine thirty,
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: I might plan to do like fifty minutes of writing,
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: like on a project that I'm really excited about, but
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: it may get to the point where I really get
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: into flow and I really get into it, and I
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: end up doing like two hours and it's like, whoa,
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: I just got a lot done here, and it felt
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: like nothing. It felt like I wasn't even exerting myself
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: at all. And it's amazing and it Actually what scientists
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: have found is that when you were in a flow
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: state like that of total engagement, you're actually using lower
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: energy networks in your brain, and so that explains why
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: you were just sort of almost effortlessly gliding through this
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: and you come out the other side and you feel like, oh,
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: I feel great, like I did a lot, but I
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: still feel energized.
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: It's amazing. So how do you get access to that information?
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: That is it just sort of like observing yourself throughout
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: the day or what I recommend.
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: I think it's observing yourself. And we do know ourselves
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: better than pretty much to anyone else, so just sometimes
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: we don't get in touch with that with that knowledge.
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: But if you think about when do I feel like,
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: like if I have to do something that brings me
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: to the very edge of my capabilities, when do I
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: tend to do that best, so that that's another way
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: that you can sort of look at it. Or if
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: I have a phone call when I know I need
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: to be absolutely on what would be the ideal time
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: of day when I would want to schedule that, like
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: what would feel the most natural for me to do that?
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: And so you can kind of get at this from
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: a few different angles. If you start in your initially
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: like I don't know, I don't know when my energy
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: peaks are, you can sort of probe it and explore
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: it from different directions, or if you really are not sure,
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: or you can kind of just experiment during the week. Okay,
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna do my big I have this big project
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: I need to finish by the end of the week.
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: I'm going to do two hours of work on it
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: in the morning. Okay, how does that go? Now I'm
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: going to do the same thing that I'm going to
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: do those two hours after lunch the next day. How
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: did that go? And like, which of those days felt
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: like you were gliding? And did the other ones feel
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: more like you're trying to walk uphill on skis or something?
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: You know? Yeah, and so so you can experiment with
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: it two if you if you're not certainly, many people
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: I think will have an idea, like some semblance of
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: when that might be for them. But if you're not sure,
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: I would say, do that kind of experimentation and see
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: what feels most aligned.
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: Okay, Now that's good advice, and that it might even
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: change over time as well. I know, yeah, you know,
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: years and years ago, I was one of this is
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: in my twenties. But like, I like to stay up
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: all night and and I would say at two o'clock
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: in the afternoon, right, But now I'm like I wake
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: up at like five am, like I'm dying.
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: And so you know it exactly, Yeah, and it can
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: be affected by sort of the non negotiable things in
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: our lives too. Like let's say you need to be
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: up at six am to get the kids out the
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: door to go to school. Well, that's going to affect
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: the rest of your circadian rhythm throughout the day. So
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: it's like, yeah, my energy peak might be different at
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: this phase in my life than it was, Like you said,
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: when I was in college and I just had, you know,
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: the complete calendar to myself and I yeah.
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: No, that's that's a good point.
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: So so lastly, then I'd love to hear just a
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: couple of your thoughts maybe examples about ways too. I
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: think you used a word at some point prior in
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: our conversation modulate, right, Like, if you notice is like
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: too much, I am in the red zone?
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: What are like.
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: Healthy strategies to kind of like walk it back without
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: going to are in the other direction advice versa. You know,
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: if you notice that, you're like, I have just been
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: laying here for three days and my plants are duying
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: and somebody needs to do something kind of bringing yourself
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: back onto that side too, But how does this work?
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: Right? So I would say on a daily basis, one
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: of the pacing strategies that I love and that I
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: really use the most often is modulation. And what that
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: is is, first of all, I learned this from a
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: psychiatrist named Joe Arpaya, who has practiced this with clients
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: who are a little on the anxious side or a
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: little bit on the spun up side, or maybe you know,
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: we have what he likes to call sort of highly
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: activated nervous systems, And so if this rings true to you,
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: modulation may be very helpful. And so it involves breathing
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: at a specific pace that research shows really does calm
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: your nervous system. And to get more specific, it's the
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: piece where there's the greatest variation between the way your
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: heart rate speeds up as you breathe in and how
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: it slows down as you breathe out. And some of
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: you might have heard of like heart rate variability, and
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: we know that high heart rate variability is good. It's
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: associated with physical calm and resilience. So what you're doing
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: with modulation is you're getting yourself in the state where
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: your heart rate variability is going to be the highest,
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: so you actually do have control over this, and so
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: that involves breathing at what is your what's called your
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: resonant breathing piece. And it's a little bit complex because
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: it can vary a little bit from person to person. Now,
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: most people's resonant piece is anywhere between four and six
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: breaths per minute, but you can kind of dial in
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: on that, like you can figure out what your exact
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: resonance piece is. There are some apps that help you
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: do this. One of them is called Elite HRB. But
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: I think the easiest way to do it is actually
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: if you go to YouTube and search for pieced breathing videos,
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: you'll find some like, Okay, here's one the pieces you
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: at five breast permanent. Here's another one that pieces you
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: at five point two breasts per minute. And so what
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: you do you experiment with these different pieces. And what
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: doctor Rpaya told me is that the piece that feels
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: the most comfortable to you, where you don't feel like
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: you're trying to get ahead or that you're behind, like
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: it's just feels like a totally natural rhythm to you,
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: that is going to be very close to your resonant piece.
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: But once you figured out your resonant piece, it actually
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: gets a lot easier because your body learns that piece
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: very quickly. So say, for me, my piece is about
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: five point two breast per minute, and to learn that piece,
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: initially I would breathe in time with the five point
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: two breast permittent video on YouTube. But after I did
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: that a few times, it was like my body learned
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: it and just naturally fell into that rhythm and it
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: became very easy. And so now I use it every
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: single day.
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, well I'm like so aware of myself breathing
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: right now, Elizabeth, Yeah, this is your fault, but okay,
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: So then the idea is that to kind of find
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: a specific breathing pace and do that intentionally, that will
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: if you're overly activated, kind of bring you back down
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: tota less activated.
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, and it will. You can kind of almost
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: control that based on the number of minutes you spend
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: doing the breathing. So two minutes you're going to notice
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: that you really, I do feel quite a bit calmer.
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: Five minutes, which is gonna feel like a lot right
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: at first. If you haven't done that before, it's like
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: titrating you right down. And the amazing thing was that
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: when I met with doctor Arpaia, So he had me
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: find my pace and spend some time breathing at that pace, right,
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: and the whole time, I had this heart rate monitor
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: clipped on my finger and like there was a heart
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: rate tracing on the screen of his laptop. Right, I
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: could see my heart rate, and as I was doing
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: the breathing, like yeah, and I was watching the sort
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: of jagged tracing relax into these like S shaped waves,
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: which was indicating that my body was calming down. And
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: at the end of it that Arpaia even said to me, like,
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: if I had put an ivy sedative into your arm
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: five minutes ago, it would not have calmed you as
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: much as you just calmed yourself right now. And that
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: was really striking to me, because honestly, I had gotten
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: in there, I wasn't sure like how much this is
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: going to help me or how well it was going
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: to work for me, And that really stood out to me,
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: like how quickly and sometimes the issue like we don't
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: even stick with it for the five minutes that it
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: takes to really get into that calmer and more centered state.
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: That's coming up for me right now is like all
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: the damn self medication we all do if it is
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: like you know, drinking three glasses of wine at the
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: end of the day to unwine, or like binge watching
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: you know, shows until three o'clock in the morning, when
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: you should be like, there's so many things that we
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: are trying to do to manage this stuff. And what
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: you're saying is that you could actually spend like literally
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: three minutes breathing in time with the YouTube video and
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: it would be more effective than all of those things
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: without hangovers, without like messing up the rest of your life.
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: Right, that's absolutely and I should stress you don't even
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: need the video for more than a couple of days,
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: Like once your body earns that piece, you can just
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: break it out anytime you need it, like and so
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: full disclosure, Like I'm not a great meditator myself. It's hard.
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: It's especially hard when you have a busy life and
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: you know the kids and just like all the background static,
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: it's really hard to do that one hundred percent focus.
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: But with modulation you can do it alongside of other
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: things that you do, Like I do it when I'm
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: chopping veggies. You could just like do it you do,
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: you may as well do it in a way that
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: brings your nervous system down at the same time, And
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: I just wish that I had learned it a lot earlier.
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: And the other benefits. It's not just the benefits in
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: the moment. It's like when you're in that state, you
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: think more clearly and you make decisions that are better
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: for you in the long run. Like, let's say, if
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: you in your relationship, like if you're upset with somebody,
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: or if you're talking about a topic that's really triggering
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: or whatever, Like if you have calmed yourself down this
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: way first before you engage in that conversation, you're gonna
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: be a lot less likely to jump down that person's
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: throat in a way that would cause you to have
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: to do a whole lot of repair work later on
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: that relationship.
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: Right, So sleepless nights of stress, Yeah, all right.
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: I mean we just add to our burdens unintentionally, and
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: so we can really avoid that when we speak from
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: a place of calm. And what I had to learn
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: was that there's certain sort of mental and physical states
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: that just aren't compatible with good decision making. And so
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: my my job is to get myself into that where
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: I can make good decisions like use all of my
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: brain exactly.
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: And that's so well substantiated. Like when we're super activated
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: when we're angry, right, like we lose some of our
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: capacities with the problem is it in the moment you
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: don't know that you have and it seems like a
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: really good idea to say whatever it is, it's like anyway,
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: So what you're saying is these breathing techniques, calming down,
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: doing it intentionally, and even in a couple of minutes,
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: you're like, Okay, your thinking brain comes back on, your
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: heart rate smooth is out. You've like lowered these ambient
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: activation levels. Yew. Now what about though, the other side
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: of this, when I mean the digital equivalent of a
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: whole right, and you're in that place and you're like,
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: I should get up now, but you don't get up?
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: Is there a remedy for that? Yeah?
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: You mean like when you're just when you're right. I mean,
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: I think the first thing is like looking at what
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: does that bring into my life when I do that?
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: Like maybe I lost my job and I've been doing
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: this languishing, I've been sitting on the couch, I've been
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: reloading Instagram for like a week. How do I feel
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: as a result of that, and it's like you kind
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: of come to a realization that you just can't continue
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: this way. And the research backs that up like that,
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: when we're not engaged and we're not contributing in our lives,
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: our motivation just goes down the tubes and we feel depressed.
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: So just kind of reminding yourself that when you languish
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: this way, you're just going to become more and more depressed,
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: and then it's going to become more and more difficult
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: to motivate yourself, and so it just gets worse and worse.
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: But sometimes it's hard to take that first step, right,
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: Like that first step, that's what I think a lot
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: of us run into is like getting past that. It
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: feels like we're stuck in the mental sludge, right, like
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: how do we take the first step out of the sludge?
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: And I think the answer may be a little bit
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: different for everybody, but for me, I actually do love
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: my to do list, and I have a few things
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: on my to do list I do first thing every
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: morning and I check them off and it's like kind
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: of the same thing. So I study language on do
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: a lingo, so I do like one do a lingo
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: lesson check like I check that off. I always unload
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: the dishes from the And it might sound like stupid
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: little things, but not at all. You're kind of giving
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: your brain these little dopamine boosts with each of these,
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: and you were setting up momentum that you can then
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: move into the things that a little are a little
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: bit harder. Yeah, And sometimes with people who have been
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: in the military, they will say to you, like, it's
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: so important for me to make my bed the way
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: I learned how to do about that in training, because
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: that starts the momentum for me. And so I think
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: finding that small thing that starts the momentum can be
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: really really important and getting out of the muks, so
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: to speak.
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: That's such good advice, you know, just like that that
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: little tiny corner, tiny little wind, make your bed in
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: the morning, get in the shower right, put on shows,
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: you know, like those kinds of things. But also getting started.
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: What's one little win unloading the dishwasher, Like you do
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: not have to redesign your entire life, but you could
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: just like empty out the silverware thing, put it in
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: the drawer, Like that is something to start somewhere. But
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: I also I don't want to let you go without highlighting.
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: Another thing that you said that I saw I thought
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: was really really insightful and and also counterintuitive for a
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: lot of people. You were saying that in addition to
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: taking a small action just to kind of get your
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: engine started, you were saying, like to actually think about
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: where this is going, Like if you keep doing what
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: you're doing right now, like where does this go? And
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: what you're doing right there is actually mobilizing anxiety. You
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: are mobilizing fear. And I think that we have been
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: socialized to believe that these are these are negative things
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: that should be avoided, when the reality is that healthy fear,
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: healthy anxiety is aka motivation. It is it is mobilizing
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: us to take action. And sometimes the way to activate
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: yourself enough to take action is actually to connect with
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: thoughts of you know, yeah, this isn't going to end well,
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: I do need to do something right?
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: Answer that up and.
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: That's a good thing. That is a good thing, right,
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: or like.
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: What am I going to regret? Or but I think
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: with that you can generate positive motivation too, like what
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: am what is my life going to look like in
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: two years if I make this kind of choice? As
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: opposed to that other kind of choice, And how am
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: I going to feel when I'm in that life that
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: I'm moving toward now versus how I would feel if
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: I continue in the languishing life. So I think, you know, maybe, yes,
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: the fear can be a little bit motivating, but positive
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: motivation is so important as well.
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: Absolutely agreed going back full circle to being connected to that,
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: to that vision of life. So yeah, yeah, Well this
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: has been such a good conversation, Elizabeth. I that we
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: got to spend this time together. If people wanted to
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: learn more about you and your work, and certainly certainly
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: this book, which is called Art of Pacing, A Guide
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: to Balancing short term demands with long term thriving, This
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: is not your only book. So what else have you
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: been up to and where can people learn more about you?
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: Yes, I do have a couple of other books. My
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: first book was called What Makes a Hero and it's
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: sort of about the science of heroism and altruism, like
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: what makes us want to do good things for other people?
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: What sometimes holds us back from doing good things? And
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: then I also have a kid's book that's along similar lines,
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: like how can you be a hero in your community
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: if you're a kid, and that one is called the
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: Life Heroic. But if you'd like to find me and
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: just continue the conversation about piecing or any of these things,
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: my website is Elizabethsbaboda dot com just my first and
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: last names together, or I'm off and on Instagram these days,
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: and my my Instagram name is subodsters.
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: Well, Elizabeth, thank you again so much for the time.
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: It's been a really pleasurable conversation and I'm so grateful
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: for all of the really practical and actionable strategies that
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: you shared, So thank you.
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much. It's been quite a delight. Lisa,
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: thank you.
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: That was such a good conversation with Elizabethsvoboda. And you know,
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: one of the things that was coming up for me
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: during it is that idea of the gap, and Elizabeth
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: shared so many great ideas about how we can get
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: visibility into what that gap is. It starts with getting
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: clarity around what it is that we even want in
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: a felt way, and also an illumination of where we
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: are now. Because when you have those two points, then
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: you can start to think about, so what needs to
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: change in the way I think, in the way I
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: behave the way I operate day to day and sometimes
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: even in the way that I feel in order for
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: me to become more congruent with this long term outcome
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: that I want to create. And this is one of
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: those things it's like easy to talk about, it's easy
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: to like string those words together. It is harder to
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: actually bring all of that into the light, much less
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: create a concrete action plan that helps us get for
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: where we are now to where we want to be.
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: And I mentioned this because I have a couple of
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: resources to support you in this. First of all, through
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: my practice growing Self, I have a network of amazing therapists,
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: licensed therapists who are not just practicing therapists. They're not
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: just doing psychotherapy aka mental health treatment. They have actually
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: shifted to do more of a coaching psychology process. And
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: that's what you heard Elizabeth and I talking about. So
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: you could work with a very experienced expert through growing self.
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: Just come on over to growing self dot com request
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: of free consultation to meet an expert, see if it
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: feels like a good fit, and then decide if you
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: want to move forward or not. But additionally, I have
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: another really exciting opportunity that I am just so in
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: love with and as you also heard me mentioning with Elizabeth,
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: I have pivoted in recent years. I love this podcast.
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: I will always do this podcast. I cherish this time
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: with you and with guests. It's really fun for me
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: and I just love, you know, sharing sharing information, putting
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: it on into the world. It's very meaningful for me personally,
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: does not feel like work. But another thing that I
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: really really love is educating and developing other therapists, particularly
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: around coaching psychology. And as part of this, I've put
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: together a coach training program for licensed therapists only only
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: licensed therapists. It is accredited by the APA, the National
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: Board for Certified Counselors, and it helps therapists attain the
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: Board certified Coach credential. And as part of this coach
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: training program, one of the things that I'm doing is
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: creating training opportunities for therapists that turn into incredible opportunities
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: for you and you know, other listeners of this show.
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: So we're now doing a program called Unstuck in eight
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: Weeks as part of this, which connects you with one
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: of these licensed therapists doing advanced coach training for a
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: significantly reduced fee, like less than twenty five of what
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: it typically costs to do this type of coaching work
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: with a fully licensed therapist. So eight sessions, and the
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: goal is to do exactly what Elizabeth and I were
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: talking about, you know, do some deep dives into your values,
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: your hopes and dreams, your personality, your strengths, your core wiring,
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: so that you get visibility into who you are, like
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: really at a core level, and get clarity about what
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: you want and set some goals like where do you
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: want to go? But also, and here's the important part,
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: get not just visibility into the gap, but visibility into obstacles,
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: like what is making it hard for me to do
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: this thing that intellectually I know I should do, Like
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: it's a good idea, and I'm not doing it anyway.
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: It's hard to understand why that makes sense? And it's
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: only when we go there that we can begin to
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: really create movement around that. And so that is what
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: this entire Unstuck in eight weeks program is designed to do.
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: It's eight weeks, one on one sessions fully licensed therapists
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: doing advanced coach training at a hugely discounted rate than
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: what it would be ordinarily, And so if that sounds
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: interesting to you, you are invited come to Growingself dot
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: Com Forward slash Grow to learn more about that and
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: get on the list. Spaces are limited for that, just
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: as you can imagine as a very popular program, so
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: growingsoft dot com Forward slash grow to jump on that
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: and yeah, we'll help you move forward, all right. So
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: that is it for today. Thank you so much again
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: for spending this time with me with Elizabeth, and I
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: will be back in touch very soon with another episode
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: of love, happiness and success.