Latest / Chatting with The Experts with Paula Okonneh / How to Secure Your Property Before It's Too Late

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How to Secure Your Property Before It's Too Late · Chatting with The Experts with Paula Okonneh

• 0:03
  Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of Chatting with the
• 0:07
  Experts, the show where I speak with phenomenal women from Africa, from
• 0:11
  the Caribbean, and in the diaspora.
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  These women and a few men who sometimes are my guests, share
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  my mission and what's that?
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  My mission is to educate, to empower, and encourage women all over the world
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  through the voices of these women.
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  Today our show is called Preparedness Beyond Documents, Where
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  Intergenerational Planning Really Lives.
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  And my guest who will join me shortly says, silence around
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  money is one of the most expensive decisions that families can make.
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  Well, my guest is the president and CEO of the Tempest Financial Group, PLLC, where
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  she serves as a financial professional, an intergenerational planning strategist.
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  She's also a speaker and educator who helps families and organizations prepare
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  for life transitions beyond paperwork.
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  Through her work with the Tempest Financial Group, PLLC, she focuses
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  on preparedness on legacy and the conversations that carry understanding
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  across generations for individuals, for families and businesses.
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  And why don't I now welcome to talk more about this to the
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  show, Ms. Tempest Williams.
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  Hi.
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  Good afternoon.
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  Thank you so much for that introduction.
• 1:50
  Absolutely!
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  What you are doing is so interesting to me and so needed.
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  It's more needed than just interesting because you are saying that if
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  you're a business owner, you need to have documents or you need to be
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  prepared financially for the business.
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  Also, you need to be prepared personally.
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  Your personal finances need to be in order, but in order for all of them
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  to really be on solid ground, you need to look at the generations that
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  came before you, not just yourself and your immediate family, but your
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  parents, your grandparents, and maybe even your great grandparents.
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  And if all of those things are in place, then the picture is rosy.
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  Did I get that right?
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  That's correct.
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  You did.
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  You did.
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  Wow.
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  So let's talk about this.
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  What made you realize, or what made you come up with that phenomenal
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  idea that intergenerational planning should happen between generations?
• 2:51
  Yes.
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  Thank you first and foremost for having me.
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  I definitely appreciate this opportunity.
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  What really got me started into thinking about intergenerational planning
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  really comes from a personal story.
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  My family the last few years, in the last two years, I should
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  say, we've had three deaths.
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  It started with my grandfather, then two months later was my great-grandmother.
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  Lastly, a year ago, my grandmother.
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  In all of those situations, I would always be the one that would be asking
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  the questions of, is this in order?
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  Is that in order?
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  Have you done the final planning for final expenses?
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  Just all the things I would always be told.
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  Everything's in order.
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  Everything is good to go.
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  Unbeknownst to me though, there had been conversations not with everybody, and not
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  with everybody, the same conversation.
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  This comes from my own personal experience of seeing where there's
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  the importance of one, having those conversations with everyone that could
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  be affected by a death of a loved one.
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  I also recognize the importance of doing planning for the generation above you.
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  So that would be your grandparents, and then also for your children.
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  And like you said, if you own a business, then you have some planning
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  that's done there too, because they're all intertwined and interrelated.
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  I don't think people realize that though.
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  So that's just a quick snippet of how I got started, why this is so passionate
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  to me, and it really is because of a personal story of my own family.
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  Yeah.
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  Sometimes what happens to us happens to us for a reason, right?
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  I'm learning that.
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  Mm-hmm.
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  It's been a hard lesson.
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  Okay.
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  But it's definitely something I'm learning.
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  Yeah.
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  I'm so sorry to hear about the deaths in your family.
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  You know, that's the final, because I'm sure after that happened, you
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  thought if I could go back and change things, I would, but you couldn't.
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  So what you're doing now is making sure that things are in place
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  before one lives with regret, right?
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  I agree.
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  I can remember a conversation that I had in 2015 with my grandmother.
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  I was a new agent, new not to selling insurance, but just a new agent, and
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  I wanted to make sure that everyone around me was in good shape, as we
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  would say, that they were prepared.
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  And at the time, her answer was, and I actually spoke on this a
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  few months ago, but her answer was, I have it all together.
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  Mm-hmm.
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  And then as the family members began to pass away, we realized that the
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  "all together" was never defined.
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  We never knew what the, I have it all together, or this is taken
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  care of, what that actually means.
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  That really drives me today to, to have those conversations and to force
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  people in spite of the fact that these are difficult conversations.
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  They're conversations that I'll admit were hard for me to consider
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  then, but the reality of life is we are all going to pass away and
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  there's just a bit of planning and consideration that needs to go into that.
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  Yes, yes, you're right.
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  We are all going to pass away.
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  It's not if it's all a matter of when.
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  Mm-hmm.
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  So how do you have these conversations?
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  How do you align the expectations, the roles that people will
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  play and their responsibility?
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  How do you do that?
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  How do you get people to do that?
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  One of the things that I've really focused on is using the financial planning
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  process to have these conversations.
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  Okay.
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  I really dig deep into not just the traditional aspect of comprehensive
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  financial planning, but also the emotional and the motivations and the behaviors
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  behind some of the things that may come out during the planning sessions.
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  I do a lot of handholding.
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  I don't mind it.
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  And the reason is because I really want everyone to understand the path
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  that we're on and what we're trying to do as it relates to their goals.
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  One of the things that I often ask is very thought-provoking questions,
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  or I may throw out questions just to kind of gauge what planning a person
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  has does for say their parents.
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  I have a situation where I know of someone personally who had an
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  unexpected new expense that came from taking care of their parents.
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  And so we had to tweak some planning over here for them, and it kind
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  of extended out their time horizon as to some goals that they had.
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  So I've learned the importance of just going ahead and incorporating
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  those questions of, do you know of the planning your parents have done?
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  How would you feel if your parent had to come and stay with you?
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  How would you feel if one day you then had to pick up some expenses
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  of your parents' healthcare?
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  Have they considered healthcare in retirement?
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  So it's really a matter of having those conversations and then saying to them,
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  after rapport and a relationship has been built, hey, you know, we have some
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  considerations for your parents or for your children or for your key person
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  with your business, whatever the case may be, I would love to get a chance
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  to talk to them really briefly and just gauge with them how they have planned
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  or what their considerations were.
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  Or even some of your siblings that you know, since y'all have had the
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  conversation about what's best for mom.
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  That when they pass or if they need to go to a nursing home, let's really
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  see if everybody understands what that means and what that looks like.
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  Okay.
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  So quick question.
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  Mm-hmm.
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  You are not an estate planning attorney?
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  No.
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  You're not.
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  You are a certified financial planner.
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  I am not.
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  I'm a financial planner.
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  I'm not certified by way of designation.
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  Okay.
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  But I do follow the CFP Board's pattern or cycle of that planning cycle.
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  Okay.
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  And just the steps that they require.
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  Okay.
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  Alright.
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  So listening to you, I see that there is some intersectionality between some of
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  these things, like the estate planning.
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  Mm-hmm.
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  That's correct.
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  I'm assuming.
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  So, you partner with some of these people or organizations or businesses
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  to help guide your clients in the right direction so that they're prepared?
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  Or do you just solely, now you work, you said you talked about handholding, you
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  hold their hands to let them know that.
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  Okay.
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  Before you even refer them or work alongside with them with
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  a estate planning attorney.
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  You are walking with these clients and saying, look, this is where you are.
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  I want you to be aware of what can happen.
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  Is that, what am I getting it right?
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  You are.
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  That's very correct.
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  So I don't do estate planning.
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  I'm not a CPA and I don't want anyone to ever think that that is
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  a hat that I wear because that's a hat of a totally different arena.
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  Mm-hmm.
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  I have teams of individuals that I work with.
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  When I've identified that I have a client that needs to meet with
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  an estate planning attorney.
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  I work with them.
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  We have the relationship where we have a trust there, where we
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  both know the end goal of what it looks like to help that client.
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  I'm there along the way.
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  I'm there during that process, and everything is great.
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  Same with the CPA, I also have a disability long-term care consultant
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  that I work with, and so I have a team of individuals where I'm like the
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  person that's sitting... to give a good example, when you go to the doctor, your
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  doctor is the person that you meet with.
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  They take your blood pressure.
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  They do the blood work, and they check all the vitals and all the numbers.
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  If they identify that there's a need for a specialist, then they go get
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  the specialist, and that's what I do.
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  I'm the gatekeeper.
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  The only difference is where the doctor may just pass you off
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  and it's like, go see Dr. Joe.
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  I stick with you and I'm there with you the whole step of the way.
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  And the reason is because a lot of times there's even action items that
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  are involved with the whole process.
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  And if we're needing for action item number one to be completed so that we
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  can move to number two, then we have to be proactive and we have to make
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  sure that everything is taken care of.
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  Now, the only caveat is I make sure that my clients are receptive to the amount of
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  work that they themselves will have to do.
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  The amount of work that's actually going into the plan to then get them to the
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  next point of where they're wanting to be.
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  Mm-hmm.
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  It works out really well depending on how engaged, I should say, just for
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  lack of a better word, they want to be.
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  I prefer that they are there during that whole cycle so that they can be educated
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  and fully aware of what's going on.
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  Mm-hmm.
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  I also encourage that if there's a person that is going to be making decisions
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  for them, that is a part of like maybe a beneficiary or someone that they have
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  designated to be over their will or medical directive, that that person also
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  be involved in the conversations as well.
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  It truly is a situation of wanting everyone to be aware because we can
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  have all the documents in the world.
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  We can think that a person has done this planning, has done that planning.
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  And unfortunately, all too often that's not the case.
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  And there's the confusion that comes about.
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  There's the conflict that comes about at times of grief.
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  And all I wanna do is try to alleviate that as much as possible.
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  I understand now.
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  I see where you come into play.
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  So, Ooh.
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  You really do walk people through it so that there's a clear
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  understanding on the responsibilities and roles of everybody concerned.
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  And as you mentioned earlier, in addition to the fact that
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  there are generations involved.
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  Mm-hmm.
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  So you kinda like... maybe in your case, you're probably like in the
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  sandwich generation where you have your parents on one side and you
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  have your children on the other side.
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  But I also understood too, that sometimes you're more than talking with
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  the parent generation because these generations may go have multiple layers.
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  'cause you may have the sandwich for want of a better, the sandwich generation.
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  The parents, the parents' parents and all of those things are interrelated.
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  And why I say so is because I was talking recently with someone about
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  gentrification and they mentioned, you know, how many times a house could be
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  like passing down through generations, but then nobody has the deed.
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  Yes.
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  You know, and so now when great-grandfather had the
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  deed, and you know, okay, well that's my great-grandfather,
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  so this is my grandfather's house and my great-grandmother.
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  And my grandmother, and so generations are living there.
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  But without knowing that there are legalities that go
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  along with that, you know?
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  Mm-hmm.
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  So, yeah.
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  And it's interesting because sometimes that stuff is found out.
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  Really good example, I know someone whose dad finally decided to start
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  looking at cleaning up their affairs and getting their affairs in order.
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  There was a home that was rental property that, in looking into the
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  deed, realized that the home was not left to him, but to his sister.
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  And it was a home that he had planned to leave to his children.
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  And so now comes this conversation that has to be had.
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  Mm-hmm.
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  But the sister also has children, so you don't know how that
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  conversation is going to go.
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  And, and it's just, you know, there, there are some one-offs that you
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  can't avoid the conflict occurring.
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  Unfortunately, though this was something that the father should
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  have done for his children.
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  There should have been some clarity there.
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  So it's just a lot of unfortunate things.
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  Even seeing children lose homes to taxes not being paid.
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  Yes.
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  There's just a lot.
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  And even in that instance, there's a way to plan for that.
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  Mm-hmm.
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  And I think that's where people miss out.
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  They truly miss out.
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  'cause it's a lack of planning or a lack of consideration as well.
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  A lot of lack of awareness.
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  Mm-hmm.
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  Because you may, you know, you may plan without actually being aware, like you
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  said, this person thought that their rental property was in his name, but
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  actually had been left to his sister.
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  Mm-hmm.
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  So they weren't even aware of that.
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  Yeah.
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  Even though things, they thought everything was in place, right?
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  Mm-hmm.
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  They thought they had planned.
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  So we are talking in other words about documents can distribute assets
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  but it's through the conversations that we get understanding.
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  Yes, yes, completely.
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  Okay.
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  All right.
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  So, you gave us some examples of your own personal example and then this sad one
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  with the gentleman who found out that the rental property was actually his sister's
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  and not his to hand off to his children.
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  So, are they any other examples I mean, that you can think of that
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  you're willing to share with us?
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  Ooh, have quite a few.
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  Oh.
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  One of the things that I've also seen when it comes to having the documents,
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  but not the conversation, is just, again, going back to my own situation.
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  I have a situation going on right now where there's a home that is
• 17:25
  caught up in a reverse mortgage.
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  Now I've seen unfortunately, many situations where people realize that
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  there's a reverse mortgage and they have no clue of how their parent
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  got into it, why they took it out.
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  I know there's an area here in my town where it's known that a lot of the
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  homeowners took out reverse mortgages purely because someone was walking by
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  and they didn't really give them just the whole picture of how it worked.
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  And it's a truly sad situation where there's the hope to keep the home
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  in the family, but then you realize after this person passes and you
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  start looking through the documents, that there's this reverse mortgage.
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  And so that's something that right now my family is working through
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  and it has caused some conflict.
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  It's caused some issues there, I'd have to say.
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  And so that's also one of the driving forces for me because I think when
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  you see it and you see it with someone that you are working with, you realize
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  that the children have come to town because they realize that mom who's
• 18:49
  in her eighties took out a reverse mortgage and mom starts trying to
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  explain to you something about what has happened and you don't really know.
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  It's one thing to have that experience in that way.
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  But when it's sitting at your own doorstep, it becomes real.
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  I think that, and let me preface this by saying reverse mortgages work for
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  people who don't plan to leave a home to a loved one who really do want to use
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  those funds to take care of expenses, medical bills, you know, if they're
• 19:25
  terminally ill, they may wanna go on a vacation, whatever the case may be.
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  I think in all situations though, it's a conversation that should be had.
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  I think that sometimes because we think of our parents as being wise and having
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  wisdom that we don't want to have or don't feel, we need to have those conversations.
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  Yes.
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  But we do, and I think it's because, like you said, sometimes
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  it's an issue of awareness.
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  People are unaware of the different things that they may need to do or
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  what may be lurking that they're not even looking to have to happen.
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  But it's always imperative to have those conversations.
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  So the reverse mortgage, like I said, that's one of the issues that I've seen.
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  I saw it on the outside looking in, working with a client,
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  and now at my own doorstep.
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  It's something that again, I wouldn't recommend if the hope is to keep the
• 20:30
  home in the family, or if you have the funds to pay back the loan, great!
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  Story for another day.
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  That's another conversation, but it's a deep conversation.
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  It's something that's happening.
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  I've heard of people too take the reverse mortgage and it seems like
• 20:51
  the solution and I guess it is the solution at that time for them.
• 20:55
  Mm-hmm.
• 20:55
  But for in terms of like your offspring or, you know, if you don't
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  have that conversation with them, they're probably of a different opinion
• 21:05
  that this property is gonna be ours.
• 21:07
  Mm-hmm.
• 21:07
  And you need to find out that.
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  Hmm, it's the banks actually.
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  Yeah.
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  And not their parents.
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  Yes.
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  And if that's not clear upfront, then the very children, the offspring that
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  you care about and you want, you know, when you pass on for them to be okay,
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  it may not be okay because if all they plan or they will, looking at that
• 21:28
  property is something that they will inherit and be able to use, you know,
• 21:31
  to better their lives and probably their children's lives or your grandchildren
• 21:34
  in the case, not yours, but I'm talking about a person who has done that.
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  Mm-hmm.
• 21:42
  Then...
• 21:43
  Yeah.
• 21:43
  I can see a lot of conflict coming from that.
• 21:45
  Yeah.
• 21:46
  Yeah.
• 21:47
  Another conflict or example that I've seen and experienced personally
• 21:54
  is caring for an aging parent.
• 21:58
  I think that in the community especially, and I'm sure in other cultures , if mom
• 22:05
  or dad gets sick, the family corrals around and they take care of them.
• 22:10
  Yes.
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  In some instances that works perfectly fine.
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  In some it does not.
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  In my own family, I had a great-grandmother who she
• 22:23
  had some health issues.
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  She had a heart attack back in 2008.
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  She was living with my grandmother and grandfather at the time.
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  Mm-hmm.
• 22:33
  And they both had some health issues at that time.
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  So everyone is in this house, there's some health issues.
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  My great-grandmother was in the hospital for a good amount of time.
• 22:45
  I wanna say maybe a month and a half, because while she was in there with
• 22:49
  the heart attack and she had a mini stroke, and this was during cold and flu
• 22:54
  season, she was in a semi-private room.
• 22:57
  Mm-hmm.
• 22:57
  She had a roommate.
• 22:59
  The roommate had pneumonia?
• 23:00
  Hmm.
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  No one told us and she got sick.
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  When she returned back home, it was recommended that
• 23:08
  she go to a rehabilitation.
• 23:11
  She did not go, and so her muscle memory and her ability to
• 23:15
  walk was severely compromised.
• 23:19
  Here comes the schedule.
• 23:21
  I was in my last few years of college but everyone took a time
• 23:26
  that they were gonna go over there and tend to my great-grandmother.
• 23:30
  Mm-hmm.
• 23:31
  That caused conflict.
• 23:33
  It caused arguments because some people had seven o'clock on a Friday
• 23:40
  and they had plans that they wanted to make that would make somebody have
• 23:45
  to hop in and you know, get in there.
• 23:49
  And I think that it was so off the cusp that we came up with this plan.
• 23:55
  In hindsight, knowing what I know now, there again, it's the
• 24:00
  importance of this conversation.
• 24:03
  It's the importance of understanding what benefits my great-grandmother had then
• 24:08
  that could have been tapped into to have someone to come in from home healthcare.
• 24:14
  Yes.
• 24:14
  Not as a... I would say replacement of family members.
• 24:21
  Yes.
• 24:21
  To allow family members to be able to have that Friday night if they've been
• 24:27
  at work all week, all day, or to have an opportunity to have maybe a 30 minute
• 24:34
  break or retreat before going and tending to my great-grandmother and off and on.
• 24:42
  We tended to her like that until she passed away in 2023.
• 24:49
  Just to give you context.
• 24:51
  Right.
• 24:51
  And we did eventually tap into benefits and had home healthcare to
• 24:57
  come in and they would sit with her.
• 25:00
  One young lady loved to comb her hair and, you know, and watch TV
• 25:05
  with, she liked soap operas and so.
• 25:07
  They come in and watch TV with her, which was really nice.
• 25:12
  But I just think about the strife that it caused back in 2008 and how there was
• 25:17
  that residual through the years of things.
• 25:21
  It just kind of snowballed.
• 25:23
  Yes.
• 25:24
  And it's all from the need to have conversations, understanding benefits,
• 25:30
  which is why, again, like I said earlier, people underestimate the
• 25:34
  importance of having a conversation, understanding your parents' benefits.
• 25:40
  Yeah.
• 25:40
  When your parents retire, that insurance that they have through the
• 25:46
  employer and all of all that that entails, that goes right out the window
• 25:51
  unless they are able to continue to have that coverage when they retire.
• 25:56
  But you need to examine what that means for them, because even in the situation
• 26:02
  where they retire, you don't know if their healthcare costs will increase.
• 26:07
  Some people retire before they can get Medicare.
• 26:10
  Some people retire and can't get Medicaid.
• 26:14
  That conversation is why that's so important.
• 26:18
  And I think being cognizant of and aware, again, aware of the fact that there are
• 26:24
  changes that have occurred that could affect you, the child, could affect them,
• 26:32
  their parents, if they're still living.
• 26:35
  Because if my grandmother then got ill, we had to kick in and take care
• 26:39
  of great-granny and grandmother.
• 26:42
  Wow.
• 26:42
  There was just a lot going on in that whole dynamic, and the
• 26:47
  conversations were not had.
• 26:49
  So my life, the last I'd say, good decade has been a part of why I feel that
• 27:01
  I've been brought to this place of the importance of having these conversations.
• 27:07
  A lot of my education is about having these conversations and hoping that
• 27:13
  women in particular are adept to having these conversations just because of the
• 27:20
  importance and then all that we put on our shoulders to do for the family.
• 27:24
  Yeah.
• 27:24
  Usually it's the woman that's wanting to be the nurturer and
• 27:29
  grandma is sick or grandpa is sick.
• 27:31
  Let me go over here and, and it's a lot and it takes away
• 27:35
  from normal life, our own lives.
• 27:39
  It takes away from our own freedom and sanity.
• 27:42
  You know, they talk about self-care.
• 27:44
  Self-care is needed.
• 27:46
  We need self-care.
• 27:48
  Absolutely.
• 27:48
  It's so underrated.
• 27:51
  You're absolutely right, Tempest.
• 27:53
  Oh my word.
• 27:54
  As you said, silence around money is one of the most expensive
• 27:59
  decisions that families can have through lack of conversations and
• 28:05
  through lack of conversations in particular between generations.
• 28:10
  Because as you mentioned with your great-grandmother, if the conversation
• 28:14
  had been had where you all knew what her benefits were, it could have saved all
• 28:20
  of you, a lot of stress and you know, as much as you loved great-grandmother
• 28:24
  and you loved your grandparents, but this could have been done in a way
• 28:27
  that would've been more, you know, more fluid and stress with less stress.
• 28:32
  Yes.
• 28:33
  Then it seems like will happen, but I have to commend you.
• 28:36
  Your family looks like they're very close knit and caring.
• 28:40
  Conflict will happen of course, because you're human.
• 28:43
  But for the most part, it looks like you came from a or you
• 28:46
  come from a very loving family.
• 28:48
  I do.
• 28:49
  I do.
• 28:51
  Kudos to you on that.
• 28:53
  So now we are wrapping up.
• 28:54
  If someone is listening to this, they're not in the audience or they're looking
• 28:58
  at this on YouTube, how can they get in touch with you, Tempest to learn more
• 29:04
  about all what you do to alleviate stress and, you know, stress and confusion
• 29:11
  within families, especially at, when we look at intergenerational conversations.
• 29:18
  I actually have a YouTube channel.
• 29:20
  I have an abundance of videos on there with long-form and short-form videos.
• 29:27
  You just pick one.
• 29:28
  Here lately, they're all kind of leading you to this particular conversation.
• 29:33
  A lot of my previous long-form videos, it's a series of just this.
• 29:39
  A person can go and look at those.
• 29:41
  I also have a website.
• 29:43
  I think you're gonna share the information.
• 29:45
  I'll drop it in the chat.
• 29:46
  Yes.
• 29:47
  Okay.
• 29:48
  There's my website.
• 29:49
  I'm on YouTube, LinkedIn.
• 29:53
  Or you can email me at info@thetempestfinancialgroup.com
• 29:56
  should you have specific questions and we can schedule some time to talk.
• 30:02
  I am very, very happy and open to talking about this topic.
• 30:09
  It's like I said, near dear my heart, and I really think that it's something
• 30:13
  that people should be talking about.
• 30:17
  I agree 100%.
• 30:20
  And for those of you who are looking at this on the YouTube channel or
• 30:24
  listening to this on Apple Podcast or Spotify, if you'd like to be a
• 30:28
  guest or you know someone who would love to be a guest on this show.
• 30:32
  Please reach out to me on my website, which is chattingwiththeexperts.com.
• 30:37
  I'm on LinkedIn, my business page there is Chatting with the Experts.
• 30:40
  I'm also on Facebook.
• 30:42
  My profile is Paula Okonneh.
• 30:44
  My business
• 30:44
  page is Chatting with the
• 30:46
  Experts, and please subscribe to my YouTube channel where you will be able
• 30:53
  to listen to even more conversations, not necessarily this one because this
• 31:00
  is specific to Ms. Tempest Williams, but conversations from other women
• 31:06
  and a few men who will educate you, empower you and encourage you if needed.
• 31:14
  And thank you again, Tempest, for coming on to Chatting with the Experts, and now
• 31:18
  we'll open up the floor so that everyone who joined us can have an opportunity
• 31:23
  to speak and speak with you one-on-one and learn even more about what you do.
• 31:29
  Thank you.
• 31:30
  Thank you.