Latest / WOC and Allies: Business and Career Realtalk with Elaine Lou Cartas / 136: Should You Blowup Your Career in Midlife? And Other Questions Women Ask Themselves with Meredith Herrera

Transcript

136: Should You Blowup Your Career in Midlife? And Other Questions Women Ask Themselves with Meredith Herrera · WOC and Allies: Business and Career Realtalk with Elaine Lou Cartas

0:00
SPEAKER_00: Lately, I've been hearing from a lot of clients that they just want to blow up their career.
0:07
SPEAKER_00: And maybe that's why you clicked in this podcast episode.
0:13
SPEAKER_00: Because they're not happy.
0:15
SPEAKER_00: They realize they are masking, being performative.
0:18
SPEAKER_00: They realize that their 100 is actually like 2,000% for the rest of employees.
0:24
SPEAKER_00: And maybe if they give 20%, that's actually 100% for everyone else.
0:29
SPEAKER_00: Or maybe you relate to them where they're not even happy in this current industry that they're working in.
0:38
SPEAKER_00: And you might be feeling this way.
0:40
SPEAKER_00: This is why you clicked on the episode.
0:42
SPEAKER_00: I promise it's not clickbait.
0:44
SPEAKER_00: But here's the thing if it makes you feel any better, and I'm going to put this mic down.
0:49
SPEAKER_00: I have blown my life up, my career life up three times.
0:54
SPEAKER_00: One, changed industry working in political campaigns to a nonprofit sector as a fundraiser.
1:00
SPEAKER_00: Two, decided to leave the nonprofit sector right after I got my master's degree because I thought I wanted to be an executive director and realized, you know what, I need to start my own business and podcasts.
1:14
SPEAKER_00: That's what I was going to say.
1:15
SPEAKER_00: And third, I even blew up my business because I realized I was making it more complicated.
1:23
SPEAKER_00: The complications and stress that I left working in political campaigns, I actually brought into my business.
1:31
SPEAKER_00: And now I've made it more simple.
1:35
SPEAKER_00: And because I don't want you to feel alone, don't worry, it's not just me talking in this episode.
1:42
SPEAKER_00: I'm also interviewing a fellow coach, a client, Meredith Hereta.
1:48
SPEAKER_00: And also warning, letting you know ahead of time, there are cuss words.
1:52
SPEAKER_00: So if you're around kiddos, you're probably gonna want to put your headphones on and a notebook.
1:59
SPEAKER_00: So grab your coffee, tea, and boba and let's drop the beat.
2:19
SPEAKER_00: Well, dress.
2:20
SPEAKER_00: I don't know, shirt, dress, what is it, Meredith?
2:22
SPEAKER_00: Definitely a shirt.
2:23
SPEAKER_00: Okay, and then I'm wearing, well, at first I was wearing a black cardigan, and then I sh I changed over to pink blazer because I I was like, oh, this is not giving executive presents.
2:33
SPEAKER_00: Gotta gotta rep the jewel tones.
2:36
SPEAKER_00: So we are here.
2:38
SPEAKER_00: I I was offended apparently.
2:40
SPEAKER_00: We are here to talk about midlife.
2:42
SPEAKER_00: And I say offended because did you remember, Meredith?
2:45
SPEAKER_00: Like, I think it was during COVID 2020 when the American Psychological Association defined mid-age as 35.
2:53
SPEAKER_00: Do you remember that?
2:54
SPEAKER_00: Oh no, I missed that.
2:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
2:57
SPEAKER_00: That's I don't think that's true.
3:00
SPEAKER_00: Although for some women it can be.
3:02
SPEAKER_00: But interesting.
3:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I would probably be offended too.
3:05
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I was super offended.
3:07
SPEAKER_00: I thought that was in your 50s, but it is not.
3:10
SPEAKER_00: You know, we are we are considered mid.
3:14
SPEAKER_00: How do you want to describe midlife, by the way?
3:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I don't know if it's so important to describe it as attached to age.
3:22
SPEAKER_00: I think, you know, I think the way it gets talked about for women is almost always physiological, and that kind of annoys me.
3:28
SPEAKER_00: 100%.
3:30
SPEAKER_00: I think it's more about this chapter in life that I think can arrive at different times for different people.
3:38
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
3:39
SPEAKER_00: Where we are starting to evaluate what brings this purpose and meaning in a different way.
3:46
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
3:47
SPEAKER_00: And what's interesting, and I guess I'm cooler than Meredith.
3:51
SPEAKER_00: I'm not trying to one-up her because I was like, do you know that this is going viral?
3:54
SPEAKER_00: So I'm holding on, I'm holding my phone right now.
3:57
SPEAKER_00: I love that.
3:58
SPEAKER_00: But apparently, so there's like this viral post.
4:01
SPEAKER_00: If you see it, people are just copying each other because that's how social media works.
4:04
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna roll my eyes.
4:06
SPEAKER_00: And so what I'm reading, it's millennial millennials, you're entering a midlife crisis.
4:11
SPEAKER_00: So choose your crisis, number one.
4:14
SPEAKER_00: I'm curious.
4:15
SPEAKER_00: Actually, if you're open to answering this, I want to know which ones you have met.
4:18
SPEAKER_00: Number one, yeah, run a marathon.
4:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
4:21
SPEAKER_00: Me too.
4:22
SPEAKER_00: How many have you?
4:23
SPEAKER_00: I know I've not run a marathon, but I I bet I can guess the list.
4:25
SPEAKER_00: Is it like buy plants, eat more protein?
4:28
SPEAKER_00: Hold on, girl.
4:29
SPEAKER_00: Number two, get a tattoo.
4:31
SPEAKER_00: I don't have one.
4:33
SPEAKER_00: Three, start baking sourdough bread.
4:36
SPEAKER_00: Definitely not.
4:38
SPEAKER_00: Four, go to therapy.
4:40
SPEAKER_00: I always do that.
4:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, same, same.
4:42
SPEAKER_00: Standard.
4:42
SPEAKER_00: Five, grow your own veg.
4:45
SPEAKER_00: I've been doing that pre-midlife.
4:48
SPEAKER_00: Eight, go to an ayahuasca retreat.
4:51
SPEAKER_00: No, but I might do psilocybin soon.
4:54
SPEAKER_00: Same.
4:55
SPEAKER_00: Um nine, I'm skipping things.
4:58
SPEAKER_00: Nine, pierce something, but I've had my ears pierced since I was a baby, but nothing besides that.
5:04
SPEAKER_00: And then 10, which we're here to talk about, blow your whole life up.
5:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
5:10
SPEAKER_00: Blow your life up.
5:12
SPEAKER_00: Or not.
5:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
5:13
SPEAKER_00: I would say I I've done it multiple times because we're around the same age.
5:18
SPEAKER_00: I mean, like, I was working during the recession, was already blown up, unfortunately.
5:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's a good that's a good point too.
5:26
SPEAKER_00: Like sometimes we don't get to choose if our life blows up.
5:30
SPEAKER_00: No, there's external factors.
5:33
SPEAKER_00: So Meredith, actually, let's talk about our love relationship and then we'll get straight into it because I'm sure all of you have clicked like, should you blow up your career in midlife or not?
5:42
SPEAKER_00: So both Meredith and I were doing the ICF PCC training, which I know is a lot of jargon.
5:49
SPEAKER_00: So for those of you that don't know, it's a certification for coaching.
5:53
SPEAKER_00: Um, and to be transparent for both me and Meredith, I want to hear your side, but I was like, oh, it's so nice to see another woman of color here.
6:02
SPEAKER_00: Let's talk.
6:03
SPEAKER_00: Meredith is laughing because I'm assuming she's validated.
6:06
SPEAKER_00: Anything else?
6:07
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
6:08
SPEAKER_00: I think I'm trying to remember kind of exactly when we interacted.
6:12
SPEAKER_00: And I kind of almost feel like I saw you make a face that I was really trying hard not to make.
6:18
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, okay, good.
6:20
SPEAKER_00: Homegirls got got the vibe.
6:23
SPEAKER_00: Um, yes, I thought it was a great program.
6:26
SPEAKER_00: And as two women of color who work with a lot of women of color, maybe we could have added a little bit of dimension to the curriculum.
6:34
SPEAKER_00: Correct.
6:35
SPEAKER_00: There was there's been statements that have said, um, but this is what I tell people.
6:39
SPEAKER_00: The reason why I joined the program, um, knowing the makeup of it, is this is the reality of the world we work with.
6:48
SPEAKER_00: And I just didn't want the fluff, life coachy stuff.
6:52
SPEAKER_00: Mind you, mind you, I've had a life coach, I go to therapy, I think it's very important to do all that stuff.
6:58
SPEAKER_00: But both of us as executive leadership coaches, like we want to get things done, but in a realistic world that we're living in.
7:08
SPEAKER_00: I think we have to kind of face through, you're right.
7:10
SPEAKER_00: Like, that's the majority.
7:12
SPEAKER_00: And we gotta, you know, I think for the majority in power, I would say the majority for now.
7:18
SPEAKER_00: For now, the demographic majority.
7:20
SPEAKER_00: And I think if we want the minority to have more power, then people like you and me, I feel like it's vocational work at this point.
7:31
SPEAKER_00: Like, I, my clients, I'm like, I want you to have more power.
7:33
SPEAKER_00: I'm sort of like nakedly talking about it that way these days, but because I want you to be able to change systems.
7:39
SPEAKER_00: And if you need to change systems, you need to know how the system works.
7:42
SPEAKER_00: You need to know how the system works.
7:43
SPEAKER_00: You need to know how to work with allies.
7:45
SPEAKER_00: Like it's just the reality of it.
7:48
SPEAKER_00: Um so I think that's what we appreciate about both of us.
7:52
SPEAKER_00: And then, you know, we we went to the next level.
7:55
SPEAKER_00: Meredith became a client, our relationship of enough, and then became friends.
8:02
SPEAKER_00: Like we're gonna meet in each other in person in two weeks, which I'm excited.
8:06
SPEAKER_00: I know, I'm really excited.
8:08
SPEAKER_00: All right, let's get into it.
8:10
SPEAKER_00: There's a reason.
8:11
SPEAKER_00: I promised the title of the episode, Should You Blow Up Your Career in Midlife, was not just clickbaity.
8:16
SPEAKER_00: We're actually gonna talk about it.
8:18
SPEAKER_00: So, Meredith, who are you?
8:20
SPEAKER_00: And why did why did you want to talk about midlife?
8:22
SPEAKER_00: Because at the end of our coaching contract, it's like, okay, now I can have you in my podcast, we need to talk about this.
8:27
SPEAKER_00: Why did you want to talk about midlife?
8:29
SPEAKER_00: Why did you want to trigger people?
8:30
SPEAKER_00: Tell me.
8:31
SPEAKER_00: I know sorry everybody who feels activated by this conversation.
8:34
SPEAKER_00: I hopefully by the end of it, you'll feel like your nervous system has been affirmed.
8:38
SPEAKER_00: Oh, well, there's a there's a life coaching there.
8:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for sure.
8:42
SPEAKER_00: I think, okay, so who am I?
8:44
SPEAKER_00: I am currently an executive coach.
8:46
SPEAKER_00: I run a coaching and consulting firm called Merit Herrera Consulting.
8:51
SPEAKER_00: But my first the first half of my career looked very different.
8:55
SPEAKER_00: I was a senior leader in schools and I did all the things because a lot of women and a lot of women of color leaders do the most all the time.
9:04
SPEAKER_00: And in 2021, I was real tired.
9:08
SPEAKER_00: Real tired.
9:09
SPEAKER_00: And I I love my work.
9:11
SPEAKER_00: It did still bring me meaning and purpose, but I was like, yo, girl, we cannot.
9:16
SPEAKER_00: I didn't pull an all-nighter in college or grad school, but I did with work.
9:20
SPEAKER_00: And something about that- Oh, good for you.
9:23
SPEAKER_00: Not that it's still good.
9:25
SPEAKER_00: I don't know that I would celebrate that there were probably moments where I know.
9:28
SPEAKER_00: Sorry, apologize.
9:29
SPEAKER_00: Take it back.
9:30
SPEAKER_00: I should have probably pulled it all nighter.
9:32
SPEAKER_00: No, no, I'm not, we're not celebrating working the most.
9:35
SPEAKER_00: Continue.
9:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
9:36
SPEAKER_00: So I I paused, and all I wanted was a pause because I didn't feel like I could do any good thinking about my life and what I wanted while working these insane hours and good thinking.
9:53
SPEAKER_00: I wanted to be responsive, not reactive.
9:55
SPEAKER_00: And so I paused, and then I had a lot of former colleagues reach out to me to do supportive work and coaching and consulting capacities.
10:02
SPEAKER_00: And that over time just emerged into this business.
10:05
SPEAKER_00: And now that's what I do.
10:07
SPEAKER_00: I help mostly women and mostly women of color leaders um navigate senior leadership, navigate transitions, figure out complexity, deal with people that are hard to deal with, all the things.
10:22
SPEAKER_00: Um, why I want to talk about midlife.
10:25
SPEAKER_00: It honestly, like I was having this sort of private journey over the last couple of years by myself.
10:30
SPEAKER_00: I sort of got my business grew, more clients.
10:33
SPEAKER_00: Most of my clients are probably, I'd say, 35 to early 50s.
10:38
SPEAKER_00: Like that's kind of like the sweet spot thing.
10:40
SPEAKER_00: And I can't tell you, my experience is too, Elaine.
10:45
SPEAKER_00: Like, I am constantly talking about this.
10:47
SPEAKER_00: My clients are constantly asking, I love this piece, but I'm not sure I can do this anymore.
10:54
SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
10:55
SPEAKER_00: I I have the job that I've worked so hard to have.
11:00
SPEAKER_00: It's not what I thought it was gonna be.
11:02
SPEAKER_00: And so it's just been coming up a lot.
11:04
SPEAKER_00: And so I decided to talk about it more because I don't think women's health wellness gets enough attention.
11:13
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think both of our experiences, and please correct me if I'm wrong, I would love your feedback as women of color.
11:19
SPEAKER_00: I would I grew up, I can only speak for myself, right?
11:22
SPEAKER_00: I'm the firstborn in this country.
11:24
SPEAKER_00: I grew up, work really hard, do all the things, do what people tell you to do.
11:30
SPEAKER_00: So there's the people pleasing, falling, straight A's, valetorian, check, check, check, check.
11:34
SPEAKER_00: And then the moment for me was like I graduate from my master's, I also worked in higher ed, which is why we get along too well together.
11:42
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, wait, I've been doing what everyone's telling me to do.
11:45
SPEAKER_00: What do I want?
11:46
SPEAKER_00: And I I did it, I never knew what I wanted because I was just used to people telling me what to do.
11:52
SPEAKER_00: And then that was a whole journey that I had with my own therapist that we're not gonna have with you, obviously, individually for those of you listening.
12:00
SPEAKER_00: But I think it might have just helped for all of you to hear it from both of us.
12:04
SPEAKER_00: I mean, do you relate to that?
12:05
SPEAKER_00: I'm curious what you're sharing.
12:07
SPEAKER_00: 100%.
12:07
SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm Mexican American and I was socialized to be good.
12:13
SPEAKER_00: To be nice, nice girl.
12:15
SPEAKER_00: So what is yeah, be good girl.
12:17
SPEAKER_00: So what does that mean, right?
12:17
SPEAKER_00: It means all the things you just said.
12:19
SPEAKER_00: It means don't make waves, achieve like a mofo.
12:24
SPEAKER_00: Um do that because that's sometimes we're doing that culturally because that is necessary to move or elevate a station in life.
12:37
SPEAKER_00: And we don't think about the privilege of considering what we want, we think about what we need to do.
12:44
SPEAKER_00: And that's a big difference.
12:47
SPEAKER_00: And so I got to the same place where I was just, you know, and I think as a woman of color working in predominantly white spaces, you're not just navigating like normal demands of leadership, which are a lot, but you're also navigating all the other stuff: the code switching, the heightened scrutiny, the ways in which you're watching maybe majority identifying colleagues get promoted and you're not.
13:11
SPEAKER_00: Like those kinds of dynamics are this additional labor on top of already a lot of labor.
13:18
SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
13:20
SPEAKER_00: And I just want to emphasize what you just said earlier, the pause part, right?
13:24
SPEAKER_00: Back in this is how we know we're all in like 21, 2021.
13:29
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
13:29
SPEAKER_00: We were we were born in the late 1900s, everybody.
13:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, giving it away.
13:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
13:36
SPEAKER_00: Um, but the pause times, Elaine.
13:38
SPEAKER_00: The before times.
13:41
SPEAKER_00: Before 1999, which is insane.
13:44
SPEAKER_00: Because I think like the last time the yeah, I was overhearing from the New York mayor, the last time the Knicks were in the playoffs was 1999.
13:52
SPEAKER_00: Oh my god.
13:53
SPEAKER_00: Anyways, basketball's just relevant right now.
13:55
SPEAKER_00: Anyways, let's go back.
13:57
SPEAKER_00: The pause part.
13:58
SPEAKER_00: Unfortunately, you know, we were conditioned as women of color, as marginalized communities of oh, you don't pause, you need to continue working, which means you are not listening to what you just said.
14:11
SPEAKER_00: What do you really want versus what do you need?
14:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
14:15
SPEAKER_00: Let me let me tell you what my dad said to me when I finally told him that I was no longer gonna be working in schools.
14:20
SPEAKER_00: Yes, my my my dad, the professor.
14:23
SPEAKER_00: So, mind you, everybody who's listening, I am not, you know, a reckless person because that's not how I was conditioned, and that would not have flown in my house, right?
14:33
SPEAKER_00: And so I knew that I was considered brain leaving.
14:37
SPEAKER_00: I had had some early conversations with my boss about this.
14:40
SPEAKER_00: And we sort of agree on a time frame.
14:43
SPEAKER_00: And then the kind of organizations where I worked when you're leaving a position at the level where I left, you typically are giving like a year's notice.
14:49
SPEAKER_00: They do a national search to find your replacement.
14:52
SPEAKER_00: So this is not like a two-week thing.
14:55
SPEAKER_00: They had a year, I gave notice a year in advance.
15:00
SPEAKER_00: And so that was great in a lot of ways.
15:02
SPEAKER_00: Uh, it let the organization get used to my departure.
15:05
SPEAKER_00: I was able to sort of socialize to that, I was able to save money, etc.
15:08
SPEAKER_00: So then I had sort of built this financial runway to be able to not work because what I really was clear about, I had had a job since I was 13 years old.
15:18
SPEAKER_00: I needed to not work for a hot second.
15:20
SPEAKER_00: Okay, but I still have bills to pay.
15:22
SPEAKER_00: I have a you've seen my dog, like he takes up a lot of energy.
15:25
SPEAKER_00: Like I have things I that cost money in my life.
15:28
SPEAKER_00: I like expensive skincare products.
15:30
SPEAKER_00: So your skin looks great.
15:31
SPEAKER_00: Your skin looks great, by the way.
15:33
SPEAKER_00: Do a skin routine video later.
15:35
SPEAKER_00: Continue.
15:36
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I could, we could do a lot about that.
15:38
SPEAKER_00: I have a lot of thoughts on that.
15:40
SPEAKER_00: Um, so I, you know, I was able, and not everyone is in this position.
15:44
SPEAKER_00: So this was a certain kind of privilege I had to be able to sort of save enough money to really not be able to work really for a year, maybe six months without making any adjustments to my lifestyle.
15:55
SPEAKER_00: A year if I was willing to make some adjustments.
15:58
SPEAKER_00: So I called my dad, right?
16:00
SPEAKER_00: Ready to present this very thoughtful, very responsible plan.
16:05
SPEAKER_00: And the first words out of his mouth, and I think he meant it well ultimately, but I was like, damn, dude, uh, were wait, so you're unemployed?
16:14
SPEAKER_00: That was it.
16:16
SPEAKER_00: Didn't hear anything about the preparation, didn't hear anything about the stress, didn't hear anything about like what had gotten me to that point.
16:22
SPEAKER_00: He's like, wait, you don't have a job?
16:23
SPEAKER_00: Like, that does not compute in our family.
16:26
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Yeah, dad, I am unemployed and I love it.
16:31
SPEAKER_00: So I think it's a radical move for a lot of us.
16:36
SPEAKER_00: It's a revolutionary move.
16:38
SPEAKER_00: Like Audrey Lore talks about self-care as being revolutionary, particularly for women of color to give themselves permission to pause.
16:46
SPEAKER_00: Maybe your pause isn't as long as mine.
16:48
SPEAKER_00: Maybe it's a weekend.
16:50
SPEAKER_00: That's cool.
16:50
SPEAKER_00: But like giving yourself permission to pause is so powerful.
16:53
SPEAKER_00: The pause part, I mean, I always tell everybody to read Russ's Resistance by Trisha Hershey.
17:00
SPEAKER_00: Just, and even now being older, being in that uncomfortable place of my thoughts and feelings and things that has happened throughout the day instead of dismissing it and just doing the next thing.
17:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, or busying yourself into oblivion.
17:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
17:16
SPEAKER_00: Where it's like, nope, this happened, let me sit with it.
17:21
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes there's no meaning to it.
17:23
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes just like, okay, like example.
17:26
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna give you the the minor example.
17:29
SPEAKER_00: Uh, I went to, which I need to tell you offline, but like I bought this camera because I do so much speaking gigs, and it's really tiny.
17:37
SPEAKER_00: It's called the Osmo Pocket 3.
17:38
SPEAKER_00: So I went to go see an old high school friend who has a video production called Fiend Media.
17:42
SPEAKER_00: So Journal Tividad, I'll name drop him.
17:45
SPEAKER_00: And I thought I forgot my journal.
17:47
SPEAKER_00: I I'm just such a tactical person.
17:49
SPEAKER_00: And this journal, I share secrets in it.
17:52
SPEAKER_00: Not not my mind you and it's not a burn book like Mean Girls, right?
17:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's just like my goals, like reflections.
18:00
SPEAKER_00: And I thought I forgot it and I was going crazy.
18:03
SPEAKER_00: Like I and I always do this my whole life.
18:05
SPEAKER_00: My whole life, I always always forget something.
18:08
SPEAKER_00: Like I lost a beanie in an airplane, I forgot my sunglasses at a restaurant that I need to go get from last month.
18:14
SPEAKER_00: Like I just always forget.
18:16
SPEAKER_00: Um and and I had a very deep therapy session.
18:20
SPEAKER_00: I think I told you from my last session where I was just like crying, like ugly crying, but it was needed crying because I had this huge level of self-awareness and started to integrate and heal it.
18:30
SPEAKER_00: And then that was two weeks ago.
18:32
SPEAKER_00: This week, I'm like, I forget things.
18:36
SPEAKER_00: Why do I forget things?
18:38
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I think because I don't know how to be really present.
18:41
SPEAKER_00: I think about the next thing.
18:43
SPEAKER_00: I'm stressed about doing the next thing.
18:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
18:45
SPEAKER_00: Why can't I just be present?
18:47
SPEAKER_00: So that was just like a huge thing.
18:49
SPEAKER_00: Mind you, that's like a small thing, but I've had it my whole life.
18:51
SPEAKER_00: So I'm like, okay, how can I integrate more presents?
18:54
SPEAKER_00: Okay, I'm gonna make sure that when I eat my phone or laptop's not here, I'm gonna be alone with my thoughts and chomp on my food.
19:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
19:05
SPEAKER_00: Good.
19:06
SPEAKER_00: That's good growth.
19:07
SPEAKER_00: So the pause part, even though it's minor, it could also be to what you were sharing earlier, right?
19:12
SPEAKER_00: You wanting you were burnt out.
19:14
SPEAKER_00: So I'm curious, in that one year, yeah, where you had the break, what how is that life-changing for you?
19:23
SPEAKER_00: For people that was like, oh, I wish I could have a break.
19:25
SPEAKER_00: And mind you, Meredith did say it doesn't have to be a year, it could be a weekend.
19:29
SPEAKER_00: But while it can be myself in two hours, like I think brilliant there's lots of ways to build in spaciousness because I don't think everyone has the capacity to you know that I did at that time to take that much time off.
19:43
SPEAKER_00: Well, to be honest, it wasn't a year because people started bothering me.
19:49
SPEAKER_00: But here's what I here's what I will say.
19:54
SPEAKER_00: The first month, I did nothing.
19:58
SPEAKER_00: There was so how was that?
20:01
SPEAKER_00: It was both liberating and disorienting and wonderful and terrifying all at once.
20:09
SPEAKER_00: And here's what I mean.
20:10
SPEAKER_00: And I actually had a call with a woman today who used to run this really fancy school, and she left about a year and a half ago, and she was sharing with me what I think a lot of us who've taken a pause can relate to.
20:22
SPEAKER_00: It took me a good maybe six months to kind of break out of this.
20:25
SPEAKER_00: There's real trauma sometimes that we have to process after we leave these roles.
20:30
SPEAKER_00: And she's 100%.
20:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, she was talking about these the sort of reflexive responses we've conditioned ourselves to like check our email and make sure we're responding to everything, the sense of urgency.
20:42
SPEAKER_00: It took my body a good couple of months to just decompress from constantly running at a high octane sense of urgency and to relax the hyper-developed sense of responsibility that I think so many women leaders and particularly women of color leaders, that we're just so like we are so used to being perfect and often very intolerant of, you know, not being perfect, like giving something a B minus level effort.
21:15
SPEAKER_00: That's just anathema to a lot of our conditioning, right?
21:19
SPEAKER_00: So I think that okay, so I was able to really rest, but part of that rest was difficult because to your point, I had to wrestle with what came in.
21:28
SPEAKER_00: When we don't busy ourselves constantly, guess what?
21:31
SPEAKER_00: Some stuff's gonna slap you upside the head existentially.
21:34
SPEAKER_00: Like, whoa, where am I in my life?
21:36
SPEAKER_00: Is this what I want to be doing?
21:38
SPEAKER_00: Doubts, did I make the right decision?
21:40
SPEAKER_00: Because it's a scare, you're you're pivoting, I was pivoting into a place of uncertainty.
21:46
SPEAKER_00: But along with that comes insight.
21:50
SPEAKER_00: And that insight becomes really powerful.
21:53
SPEAKER_00: And it's so fascinating to me that in that journey, the people that show up in your life to provide wisdom.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: Support, guidance.
22:02
SPEAKER_00: It's it's just like the you know, the clouds part for the first time in a while.
22:08
SPEAKER_00: And at first you're not sure if you still need to like walk around with your umbrella and raincoat.
22:12
SPEAKER_00: So it's a little weird, but then eventually you kind of get used to it.
22:16
SPEAKER_00: And you're I was able to be so much more creative and so much more stimulated than I was earlier because I was no longer under duress.
22:30
SPEAKER_00: So much more creative.
22:32
SPEAKER_00: I love that you said that.
22:34
SPEAKER_00: And I say that because even in my work, in my business as a coach, and I've shared this even with you, and we've had sessions.
22:42
SPEAKER_00: Like, I need to build out quiet time to just process things.
22:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
22:48
SPEAKER_00: But then what ends up happening through the processing, it's like, what are little tweaks I could do in my business?
22:53
SPEAKER_00: One or two, content starts coming out for me.
22:57
SPEAKER_00: And I know you love also writing yourself, not because you want to post it, just you love writing.
23:02
SPEAKER_00: I love writing myself, not research papers.
23:05
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
23:05
SPEAKER_00: That's a different thing from like undergrad or grad school.
23:10
SPEAKER_00: And and it's interesting because for me, I had, I feel like I've had different midlifes.
23:16
SPEAKER_00: Like for me, it was like back in 2017 when I wanted to leave.
23:19
SPEAKER_00: And then it was again 2023 in my business.
23:22
SPEAKER_00: And I think people need to hear this for those of you that have a business or want to have a business.
23:26
SPEAKER_00: When I create my business 2017, up to probably 2021, because I will say 20, 2023 to maybe 2025, I was like in functional freeze, just like doing mid, but not just like doing the cycles of things and not changing anything.
23:44
SPEAKER_00: Because what I realized in my business is I built my business and that hypervigilance of what I did in my work before because I was used to it.
23:52
SPEAKER_00: Also, I think this might relate to everybody.
23:55
SPEAKER_00: I was comfortable in the chaos because I grew up in chaos, and I had to do so much unlearning and healing of the calm and the boring.
24:06
SPEAKER_00: Like that boring could be actually really good.
24:10
SPEAKER_00: And so I was having a friend with a conversation with my friend Jorelle, who also has his own business that does the videography.
24:17
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, he was like, So, what do you think has helped you grow in your business?
24:22
SPEAKER_00: I was like, I've made my business boring.
24:24
SPEAKER_00: I was like, So you don't like it?
24:25
SPEAKER_00: Like, no, I love it.
24:26
SPEAKER_00: It's just I realize I made my business so complicated in the beginning.
24:30
SPEAKER_00: Well, I think what you're describing is something that so many of us in midlife start to reckon with, which is this we have been on the achievement hamster wheel, yeah, running fast for a long time.
24:44
SPEAKER_00: And probably we can still do it.
24:47
SPEAKER_00: That's the thing that I love about my clients because they are so badass.
24:51
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, do you you can you can still do that for the next 20, 30 years of your life or your working life?
24:58
SPEAKER_00: You can.
24:59
SPEAKER_00: But what's different, I think, about midlife is we start asking ourselves a slightly different question.
25:05
SPEAKER_00: Do I want to?
25:07
SPEAKER_00: Do I actually want to?
25:09
SPEAKER_00: And that's really different.
25:11
SPEAKER_00: Can you?
25:12
SPEAKER_00: Of course.
25:13
SPEAKER_00: Like if you wanted to kind of continue to operate at that level of frenzy and chaos, you could.
25:21
SPEAKER_00: But you're making some conscious conscious choices to sort of introduce a different set of norms for how you work.
25:28
SPEAKER_00: So I think our like relationship to work changes in midlife.
25:32
SPEAKER_00: Or even like our identity, what life is, what's important to us.
25:37
SPEAKER_00: Because for sure.
25:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and then you start seeing people you love pass away, even people around your age, whether their first degree of separation or second.
25:49
SPEAKER_00: So you've shared with me, right?
25:52
SPEAKER_00: Midlife has terrible PR.
25:55
SPEAKER_00: What's the reframe you wish for?
25:57
SPEAKER_00: I do think midlife has bad PR.
25:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
26:00
SPEAKER_00: Actually, I always joke around.
26:01
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, you know what?
26:02
SPEAKER_00: I really love I love being older because in your 20s, it's so easy masking things.
26:10
SPEAKER_00: So easy.
26:11
SPEAKER_00: And you have so much energy to just do everything.
26:13
SPEAKER_00: And then as you get older, as a woman, your hormones shift and change.
26:16
SPEAKER_00: But honestly, I'm in the I love this like, I don't give a fuck BS hormone that's happening.
26:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
26:23
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think that's the reframe in part.
26:26
SPEAKER_00: Reframe is not the reframe is that midlife is not some crisis.
26:31
SPEAKER_00: It is an appropriate stage of development.
26:34
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so I am like such a little nerdball about this, but this is a lot of what I studied in graduate school is sort of counseling and developmental psychology.
26:41
SPEAKER_00: So, right, when we think of human development, we think of like babies, do they roll over at the same, you know, at the right time, walk, talk?
26:47
SPEAKER_00: Maybe we think of adolescence, like um in terms of puberty.
26:52
SPEAKER_00: Okay, well, development doesn't stop.
26:55
SPEAKER_00: As long as we're alive, there are certain developmental milestones that we go through.
26:59
SPEAKER_00: And one of the least talked about is midlife.
27:01
SPEAKER_00: And usually when it's talked about, it's like for men, I think it sort of gets framed as this like crisis where they, you know, buy a Corvette and like leave their whole lives and act irresponsibly.
27:12
SPEAKER_00: For women, it's usually about hormonal stereotypes, which I think I find really frustrating.
27:19
SPEAKER_00: And I find the like discourse on social media about it like really annoying because it's always kind of like how you started.
27:24
SPEAKER_00: It's like walk 10,000 steps, eat more protein.
27:28
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, basically a list of demands is what's given to us in midlife.
27:33
SPEAKER_00: And it's so like the opposite of what is appropriate developmentally.
27:38
SPEAKER_00: So it's basically, I think, this normal developmental moment where we start to realize okay, a lot of my life I've been focused on advancement or proving myself or achievement or getting the job or getting the title or getting the house or the relationship.
27:56
SPEAKER_00: And now, because a lot of those things are kind of humming along or running, or we've established ourselves by sort of traditional metrics, there's a shift that happens for a lot of us where we start asking ourselves different questions that are more about alignment and meaning and purpose.
28:13
SPEAKER_00: And you know, so if you're asking yourself, if you're in that moment where you're asking yourself, you know, you're waking up at two o'clock in the morning asking yourself these kinds of questions, it doesn't mean you need to like buy a winery in Tuscany.
28:26
SPEAKER_00: But before you go to like solving all the problems, I think it's important to just know like those questions are so normal and really healthy to be asking.
28:36
SPEAKER_00: So that's the that's how I would reframe P uh midlife.
28:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
28:41
SPEAKER_00: It's I think a lot of you would relate, but when one of my clients share this, who's in midlife, it's like I'm just done portraying myself.
28:52
SPEAKER_00: And then I've used that same line to other clients who have shared this conversation, which is a lot of people, because we work with similar clients.
28:59
SPEAKER_00: They're like, oh, those are the yeah, those words.
29:02
SPEAKER_00: Exactly it.
29:04
SPEAKER_00: You used the magic word earlier, I think.
29:05
SPEAKER_00: Like a lot of what a lot of what we know from the research tells us midlife is is like we sloth off the stuff that no longer fits.
29:14
SPEAKER_00: That can be jobs, that could be relationships, that can just be not speaking up for ourselves, that can be not taking care of ourselves.
29:21
SPEAKER_00: And so, like integration and sort of like almost like this distillation of what really matters, where who you are and what you believe and what you do start to become more aligned.
29:34
SPEAKER_00: Like that to me is like the magic of midlife.
29:37
SPEAKER_00: Like that's like the dope part.
29:39
SPEAKER_00: And part of that means, to your point, like you'll give 0.0 about other things that at 25 you cared about, but now at you know, 45 or 50, you're like, I don't give a you know what?
29:52
SPEAKER_00: Can I curse?
29:54
SPEAKER_00: Yes, I just was dropping F-bombs earlier.
29:56
SPEAKER_00: Okay, well then I don't give a fuck.
29:59
SPEAKER_00: I mean, to your point, it's like giving your 100% earlier.
30:04
SPEAKER_00: But I've even shared with my clients, like, figure out what your enough is because the reality is your 20% is probably 100% to everybody else at this job.
30:13
SPEAKER_00: Totally.
30:14
SPEAKER_00: You don't need to be doing 100 in every aspect of your life.
30:19
SPEAKER_00: Mind you, like if there's like a family crisis or a parent needs you, like maybe your work's gonna go like down 20%, and you need to focus more on your parents.
30:28
SPEAKER_00: Like, work-life balance is a lie.
30:31
SPEAKER_00: I just think it's like it's like a game.
30:33
SPEAKER_00: Sorry, I'm using a game.
30:34
SPEAKER_00: It's like, what's a priority now?
30:35
SPEAKER_00: It's just like lovers.
30:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
30:37
SPEAKER_00: Just exactly lovers.
30:39
SPEAKER_00: I thought you said lovers.
30:40
SPEAKER_00: I was like, lovers, yes.
30:42
SPEAKER_00: Lovers.
30:43
SPEAKER_00: Sorry, sorry, everybody.
30:45
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so uh people listening right now.
30:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
30:48
SPEAKER_00: They probably and you and I have heard of heard this from our own clients.
30:53
SPEAKER_00: I think I just need to blow up everything and start over.
30:56
SPEAKER_00: What is actually underneath that impulse?
31:00
SPEAKER_00: And how do you help them discern, you know, what's real versus a reaction and how to make sure they truly align to what's important to them?
31:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
31:10
SPEAKER_00: It's like such an important question.
31:12
SPEAKER_00: I mean, and I'll be honest, like sometimes you do need to blow things up, but most of the time it's about it's not really a question of like, should I quit my job?
31:22
SPEAKER_00: Should I leave my marriage?
31:23
SPEAKER_00: They're asked, it's it's more the question underneath the question is can I keep living life the way I've been living it?
31:31
SPEAKER_00: Like, is this can I keep doing this this way?
31:34
SPEAKER_00: And if I don't want to do it this way, what is the way?
31:37
SPEAKER_00: And that could be in a relationship, that could be with work, that could be with your relationship to your children, it could be all kinds of things, your in-laws.
31:45
SPEAKER_00: So I think, you know, and why is that the case?
31:49
SPEAKER_00: Because we usually are living in a life that we built 10, 15 years ago, career, you know, goals, etc.
32:00
SPEAKER_00: And a lot of us have been so busy, we haven't kind of evaluated or updated that stuff in a while.
32:05
SPEAKER_00: And I think we tend to, so what would I tell someone?
32:10
SPEAKER_00: I would say sometimes the answer is a major change.
32:13
SPEAKER_00: More often it's something smaller.
32:17
SPEAKER_00: It's maybe a boundary that you have been meaning to set that you haven't been setting.
32:22
SPEAKER_00: Maybe it's a new role.
32:24
SPEAKER_00: Maybe it's reintroducing a hobby or exercise into your life and really treating that as like synchronous time.
32:32
SPEAKER_00: You know, it's not always changing everything 180 degrees different.
32:37
SPEAKER_00: And then in terms of like, well, how do you know?
32:38
SPEAKER_00: Like, okay, Meredith, but like, how do I know?
32:41
SPEAKER_00: This is what I used to say with parents when I was working with children in crisis.
32:44
SPEAKER_00: I'd say duration and severity.
32:47
SPEAKER_00: We don't want to like make permanent life changes based on temporary feelings, like, probably not the best move.
32:55
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
32:55
SPEAKER_00: So we're gonna like, to your point, we're gonna pause and we're gonna sit with this discomfort.
33:00
SPEAKER_00: And if it persists, you know, and you try the new role and it persists, that's when we might need to like examine if something more significant is required.
33:13
SPEAKER_00: Um Because I've seen everything every I have friends who have blown up their lives and it's worked out great.
33:23
SPEAKER_00: And I have friends who've impulsively blown up their lives and it's worked out terribly.
33:26
SPEAKER_00: And I've had friends who've made minor adjustments and it's worked out fine, and other friends who've made minor adjustments and it wasn't enough.
33:34
SPEAKER_00: So I think it's really just allowing yourself, giving yourself permission to be in sort of like like almost like an anthropologist in your own life.
33:41
SPEAKER_00: Like, let me be a scientist right now and like sit with this and look at the trends over time.
33:47
SPEAKER_00: That part, the trends and the patterns, and it could be the smallest things.
33:52
SPEAKER_00: So, for example, like I think about my crazy ass, like in my teenage and 20, like during my teenage years and my 20s, like when you're crazy.
34:01
SPEAKER_00: Oh, 100%.
34:02
SPEAKER_00: Thank you to my therapist.
34:04
SPEAKER_00: I would like to share all to all my high school and college friends.
34:07
SPEAKER_00: I acknowledge I was crazy and I apologize.
34:10
SPEAKER_00: But I think about all the moments where I responded with reactivity and emotion, and it did not work well.
34:18
SPEAKER_00: And those are minor conversations, right?
34:21
SPEAKER_00: Versus like maybe a big thing about oh, this work.
34:25
SPEAKER_00: Like you could just see patterns of what is happening, which is very important to what you were saying, Meredith.
34:32
SPEAKER_00: Let me be a scientist.
34:33
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
34:34
SPEAKER_00: Next time my narcissist boss comes up to me, let me try this.
34:37
SPEAKER_00: Let me try saying to him why my idea would work by taking out the word me, because narcissists don't like the word me.
34:45
SPEAKER_00: They don't like that.
34:46
SPEAKER_00: And let them know how it would benefit them.
34:48
SPEAKER_00: So then you start saying things you could test and play with.
34:53
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna bring the video game idea up, like, oh, okay, this is what is in my control.
35:00
SPEAKER_00: Can you ever change someone?
35:01
SPEAKER_00: No.
35:01
SPEAKER_00: I do I wish everyone in my life would go to therapy?
35:04
SPEAKER_00: Yes, but I cannot force them.
35:06
SPEAKER_00: That is a choice they make, just like you cannot change the narcissist boss or coworker that you work with.
35:11
SPEAKER_00: But you could ask yourself and test things, what can I do to change?
35:14
SPEAKER_00: Mind you, when you've done everything you can in your control, then you could ask the deeper question can I play this game at this work?
35:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, at this organization.
35:23
SPEAKER_00: That's a question.
35:25
SPEAKER_00: What is a I might sort of what does it gain me to play this game?
35:31
SPEAKER_00: What is it costing me?
35:32
SPEAKER_00: Costing, costing, costing, costing.
35:35
SPEAKER_00: Um are the costs worth it?
35:39
SPEAKER_00: I remember waking up.
35:40
SPEAKER_00: You probably felt this way too from what you shared.
35:42
SPEAKER_00: I remember waking up every day for a job where like I had full-on anxiety, like on my chest.
35:47
SPEAKER_00: I was not exact excited.
35:49
SPEAKER_00: I felt I was gonna get yelled at, there was gonna be a mistake that was gonna happen.
35:52
SPEAKER_00: It was just not helpful for my mental health.
35:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
35:56
SPEAKER_00: And then when I got out of the job, I noticed how things shift in my personal relationships, the person I was dating to even my parents.
36:04
SPEAKER_00: I was like, whoa, I'm a different person.
36:06
SPEAKER_00: 100%.
36:08
SPEAKER_00: I didn't realize I was so much of a bitch, like when I was at that job.
36:12
SPEAKER_00: Well, I think that's that's the cost part.
36:14
SPEAKER_00: Like, what's the collateral damage of continuing to ignore?
36:19
SPEAKER_00: And I think most women I know, you all who are listening, you know.
36:23
SPEAKER_00: Like, that's the other thing I want to say.
36:25
SPEAKER_00: Like, you can listen to me, you can listen to Lynn, you can listen to, you can read some books, you can like download a Brene Brown TED Talk.
36:31
SPEAKER_00: There's gonna be a quiet voice inside of you that is there and it is not going away.
36:37
SPEAKER_00: Correct.
36:38
SPEAKER_00: And it's been there for a while.
36:39
SPEAKER_00: Correct.
36:39
SPEAKER_00: That's your truth.
36:41
SPEAKER_00: That's what you got to listen to.
36:43
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
36:44
SPEAKER_00: And I will say that has been an ongoing thing I've had to personally work on and continue to work on is a listening to myself because what I how I became successful in putting air quotes up to like was listening to what people had to say.
37:01
SPEAKER_00: But then in my in my chest, like, oh, this doesn't feel good.
37:06
SPEAKER_00: Like, even just even family dynamics as the oldest daughter, like going to every single family gathering, even a small one, where I'm like, this is way too much.
37:14
SPEAKER_00: And now I have boundaries with my family and they still love me, even though I don't go to everything.
37:19
SPEAKER_00: It's kind of like I sometimes think it's like when you have been out of shape for a while and you go back to the gym.
37:23
SPEAKER_00: Like the first two weeks suck, but then you sort of find the rhythm and you find a group.
37:27
SPEAKER_00: So the first time you set that boundary, or you make that different choice, or you don't answer your narcissist boss email at night because and you you start it, you show up with these.
37:38
SPEAKER_00: I for me, they're micro moments of bravery.
37:40
SPEAKER_00: I think sometimes we put so much pressure on ourselves to be so courageous all the time.
37:45
SPEAKER_00: Like nobody's got time for that.
37:47
SPEAKER_00: Like micro moments of courage and bravery where you can start to like throw a thing against the wall and realize, okay, that was maybe a little uncomfortable, but the sky didn't fall.
37:58
SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm cool, everything's okay, people still love me, I didn't get fired.
38:03
SPEAKER_00: And I think those experiments build confidence and clarity over time.
38:09
SPEAKER_00: Micro changes.
38:10
SPEAKER_00: So, one thing I forgot to mention in the beginning, what Meredith and I have in common is our shared love with Muay Thai.
38:17
SPEAKER_00: Yes, kickboxing.
38:19
SPEAKER_00: And so, even in our coaching sessions that I've had with Meredith, and we talked about small tweaks, I'm like, oh, you know, like when your hand is down, someone's gonna hit you, but you should have your hand up.
38:29
SPEAKER_00: Like, I started using Muay Thai sports analogies, and I'm sharing this with all of you because you could see life exactly like that.
38:36
SPEAKER_00: Like the or pickleball is a huge sport that everybody loves.
38:40
SPEAKER_00: I have not gotten into it yet.
38:43
SPEAKER_00: Notice I said yet, who knows?
38:44
SPEAKER_00: It may change.
38:45
SPEAKER_00: Um, but it's like small little adjustments, tiny little things that you're doing.
38:50
SPEAKER_00: Well, I think one of the things you and I were talking about beforehand before we started recording is sort of how someone can tell, you know, because a lot of times these conversations are coming to me from women who at least use language, burnout language.
39:04
SPEAKER_00: Like, okay, I'm, you know, like what's the difference between I'm burned out and like, oh, I just need something different.
39:12
SPEAKER_00: Like I've just outgrown, like these shoes are too small now.
39:16
SPEAKER_00: And I think that first of all, I want to say like sometimes it's both.
39:22
SPEAKER_00: For me, it was kind of both.
39:23
SPEAKER_00: I was both burned out.
39:25
SPEAKER_00: And I need something more stimulating and interesting to do professionally.
39:28
SPEAKER_00: Stimulated and interesting, yes.
39:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I was no longer um, because for me, that's one of my values.
39:35
SPEAKER_00: Like intellectual stimulation is really important to me.
39:37
SPEAKER_00: I needed to feel useful.
39:38
SPEAKER_00: I need to just feel like I was learning and growing, like I love to learn.
39:41
SPEAKER_00: Like that that value wasn't getting sort of scratched in the same way.
39:46
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I was real, real tired.
39:48
SPEAKER_00: So I think like, okay, so if you're out there and you're listening, okay, am I burned out, or do I just need like to change jobs but stay in the same industry?
39:57
SPEAKER_00: I would say burnout is urgency.
40:02
SPEAKER_00: I need relief.
40:03
SPEAKER_00: I need it now.
40:04
SPEAKER_00: And when you rest, burnout gets better, usually like meaningful rest.
40:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
40:11
SPEAKER_00: Growth, I need something different, I've outgrown something.
40:14
SPEAKER_00: I just don't like this anymore, it's not interesting anymore, is is more less about like relief and more about ah, I just feel like underutilized, I need something different.
40:25
SPEAKER_00: And if you rest with growth, it sort of doesn't go away.
40:30
SPEAKER_00: You're more rested, but you're still feeling misaligned.
40:33
SPEAKER_00: I want to add to that.
40:35
SPEAKER_00: So I always tell people I don't have the I hated my job before I started my business.
40:40
SPEAKER_00: I had my dream job.
40:42
SPEAKER_00: I had an incredible boss, an incredible team.
40:44
SPEAKER_00: I worked at Pasadese City College.
40:46
SPEAKER_00: I was a former fundraiser raising millions of dollars for community college kids.
40:49
SPEAKER_00: So I didn't have to deal with like crazy trust fund kids.
40:52
SPEAKER_00: Like they were kids that were changing lives.
40:56
SPEAKER_00: And as you know, working in education, to go to a campus every day, you feel that youthful energy.
41:01
SPEAKER_00: So fun.
41:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, change is gonna happen.
41:04
SPEAKER_00: However, I mean, working also in education, there's a lot of bureaucracy.
41:10
SPEAKER_00: Things move slower.
41:12
SPEAKER_00: Prior to that, I worked in campaigns, so I didn't feel as intellectually stimulated, which is also one of my important values and learning and growth.
41:21
SPEAKER_00: And and it sucks because like I shouldn't let me, I've had internal conflict.
41:27
SPEAKER_00: I should just put my head down.
41:28
SPEAKER_00: I'm making great money, I'm doing such a good job.
41:30
SPEAKER_00: I have a great boss, like I don't have toxic toxicity, but intellectual stimulation was really important to me.
41:37
SPEAKER_00: So, to what Meredith and I were talking about, trying something, I was like, let me just try coaching on the side.
41:44
SPEAKER_00: Um, so I did.
41:45
SPEAKER_00: I tried it.
41:47
SPEAKER_00: And unfortunately, I like I was interim.
41:49
SPEAKER_00: I applied for my own job.
41:50
SPEAKER_00: I didn't get the job.
41:51
SPEAKER_00: While at the same time, though, I'm grateful that that happened because I wouldn't have left.
41:58
SPEAKER_00: So I don't have a similar story to Meredith where I chose to leave, although I probably was mentally emotionally wanting to, but I was going to stay if I got the full-time gig.
42:08
SPEAKER_00: But honestly, I'm not surprised I didn't get the job.
42:12
SPEAKER_00: I kept making too much mistakes at my job.
42:14
SPEAKER_00: Like my boss had to have a meeting with me.
42:16
SPEAKER_00: She's like, Elaine, what is going on?
42:18
SPEAKER_00: Like, you are a higher performer.
42:20
SPEAKER_00: Like you're making simple mistakes.
42:22
SPEAKER_00: And because I had such a great relationship with her, I was like, my heart's not into this anymore.
42:28
SPEAKER_00: I'm not meant to be here.
42:30
SPEAKER_00: I you said something earlier that I think is so important because I run into this a lot.
42:35
SPEAKER_00: And I certainly have had my own like nine rounds wrestling with this particular beast.
42:42
SPEAKER_00: Uh the kind of like, I should just be grateful.
42:46
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
42:47
SPEAKER_00: Conditioning.
42:47
SPEAKER_00: I hear it all the time.
42:49
SPEAKER_00: I should be so grateful.
42:50
SPEAKER_00: Do you hear a man say that?
42:52
SPEAKER_00: Actually, can I say this out loud?
42:53
SPEAKER_00: You don't hear a man say that.
42:54
SPEAKER_00: It's usually I don't hear men.
42:57
SPEAKER_00: I wish Matt said that more.
42:59
SPEAKER_00: Hey, men, maybe say that from time to time.
43:02
SPEAKER_00: Um, no, I the kind of like I have, like, aren't I so lucky that I have this job?
43:08
SPEAKER_00: And I think it comes like there's a lot, we could have a whole other podcast on like where that comes from.
43:15
SPEAKER_00: But and why, and the cultural conditioning, the psychological predispositions, women, well, whatever.
43:21
SPEAKER_00: Like it's you can be multiple things at once.
43:27
SPEAKER_00: You can be grateful for opportunities that have come your way in life and still feel like they're not what you want.
43:33
SPEAKER_00: You are allowed to dream, you're allowed to be bold.
43:37
SPEAKER_00: And I just think a lot of us don't get encouraged in that way when we're younger.
43:44
SPEAKER_00: And so we we end up kind of conforming to like how you and I said earlier like what we are told is good and right and appropriate and proper.
43:56
SPEAKER_00: And like sometimes I think for me, midlife has been.
44:00
SPEAKER_00: About, I don't know.
44:04
SPEAKER_00: It's it's been like I am going to center joy, I am going to center ease.
44:12
SPEAKER_00: It's just been a shift of what I am valuing and centering.
44:15
SPEAKER_00: And that might mean I have to say, fuck this to some things and be okay with that.
44:21
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna give an example because I think this might help people, but even in my relationship with my partner, when the the hardest question to answer, what are we gonna eat tonight?
44:32
SPEAKER_00: Right.
44:33
SPEAKER_00: And so in the beginning, very good girl.
44:36
SPEAKER_00: We talked about good girl.
44:37
SPEAKER_00: Whatever you want.
44:39
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
44:39
SPEAKER_00: And then it got to a point where he got frustrated.
44:41
SPEAKER_00: Like, you always are asking me what I want.
44:43
SPEAKER_00: What do you want?
44:44
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I don't know, whatever.
44:47
SPEAKER_00: And so then I started testing things.
44:49
SPEAKER_00: Okay, he's not liking this.
44:51
SPEAKER_00: Like, I just need to hear what you want.
44:52
SPEAKER_00: And this is just food, right?
44:54
SPEAKER_00: So then I'm like, okay, I want to eat this.
44:58
SPEAKER_00: Okay, good.
44:59
SPEAKER_00: And then sometimes I would feel shot down if he said no.
45:02
SPEAKER_00: So I've learned I'm gonna give two options I want.
45:05
SPEAKER_00: I want to go here or here.
45:06
SPEAKER_00: Which one?
45:07
SPEAKER_00: This one, like, oh okay.
45:08
SPEAKER_00: And then so what I've learned, like, oh, I think that was that was an example of me people pleasing and also kind of giving my power away to please the other person, as opposed to even saying, what do I want?
45:21
unknown: Yeah.
45:21
SPEAKER_00: That's like a really minor thing.
45:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
45:23
SPEAKER_00: But it's like, how has it shown up in other things?
45:26
SPEAKER_00: And even in my own business recently, I'm like, oh, I have this feeling I need to increase prices.
45:31
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, nope, I need to increase it.
45:33
SPEAKER_00: It's gonna happen.
45:35
SPEAKER_00: So giving that space and time to reflect on these things to what you were saying, patterns.
45:42
SPEAKER_00: The question I ask my clients a lot, and I ask myself this regularly, because this is an area of challenge.
45:48
SPEAKER_00: Like, this is sort of one of those perennial areas of challenge for me.
45:52
SPEAKER_00: I grew up, I went to 12 years of Catholic school.
45:55
SPEAKER_00: Being good was like real emphasized.
45:58
SPEAKER_00: But the question I ask is if no one were disappointed, disappointed, what would you want?
46:03
SPEAKER_00: Say that question again, just in case people need to hear it again.
46:06
SPEAKER_00: Go ahead.
46:07
SPEAKER_00: If no one were disappointed, if we could create a universe where no one was going to be disappointed in you or your decision, what would you do?
46:13
SPEAKER_00: What would you want?
46:15
SPEAKER_00: Let's start there.
46:17
SPEAKER_00: Lunch.
46:19
SPEAKER_00: You asked me.
46:20
SPEAKER_00: You want lunch.
46:21
SPEAKER_00: Fair.
46:22
SPEAKER_00: Let's get you some lunch.
46:23
SPEAKER_00: It is lunchtime as uh it's 1204 Pacific right now as we were recording it.
46:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
46:28
SPEAKER_00: The other question I also liked, because sometimes I see I watch.
46:33
SPEAKER_00: I mean, as a coach, you know that there are sometimes moments where you look at your client's behavior and you're like, why do you do that?
46:41
SPEAKER_00: And one of the things that I see is the ways in which women of color gaslight themselves a lot.
46:48
SPEAKER_00: And so I will often ask them, I'm like, what are you pretending to not know?
46:54
SPEAKER_00: That you know what's I what is real?
47:01
SPEAKER_00: Like, let's start telling ourselves the truth.
47:03
SPEAKER_00: Or even knowing they are.
47:04
SPEAKER_00: Like, I was working with an executive who's in HR very like 20 to 30 years, right?
47:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
47:14
SPEAKER_00: And talks about gaslighting.
47:18
SPEAKER_00: And when he was sharing a specific example, I'm like, um, you're being gaslit.
47:25
SPEAKER_00: Shit.
47:25
SPEAKER_00: I am, and I talk about this all the time.
47:28
SPEAKER_00: So it's interesting because even though we could be experts, like, okay, because we start second guessing each other.
47:32
SPEAKER_00: I should be grateful.
47:34
SPEAKER_00: Oh no, that's just how he is.
47:35
SPEAKER_00: But then the question, too, it's like, what are you doing to enable certain behaviors, whether it's from yourself or to other people as well?
47:44
SPEAKER_00: And I always come back to that.
47:45
SPEAKER_00: What's it costing me?
47:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
47:47
SPEAKER_00: What is it?
47:48
SPEAKER_00: So talking about costing you, and we talked about this earlier.
47:52
SPEAKER_00: For women of color, they've spent years, decades code switching, over delivering, navigating spaces that weren't built for them.
48:00
SPEAKER_00: How does that cumulative weight show up differently when it hits this developmental crossroads?
48:07
SPEAKER_00: Oh gosh.
48:08
SPEAKER_00: Well, I'll give an anecdote, and obviously, this is not representative of everyone, but I think it is representative of a good chunk of us.
48:15
SPEAKER_00: So I was on a leadership panel a couple of months ago, and it was for women leaders in California private schools, and I was the only person on the panel who was no longer in a school.
48:28
SPEAKER_00: And the rest of the women were all heads of schools, and they were all women of color.
48:34
SPEAKER_00: And we were assigned, you know, which questions we were gonna answer.
48:37
SPEAKER_00: And the question that I was not, this was not one of the ones that I was assigned to answer was basically like, what were the what are the trade-offs or sacrifices you've had to make to be in this role?
48:49
SPEAKER_00: And these are all very like highly accomplished women.
48:51
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so then I was, you know, I was one of those like get your face, Meredith, you know, like moments for me because it's not that I was surprised, but from left to right, this is what it sounded.
49:02
SPEAKER_00: The first woman, a black woman.
49:04
SPEAKER_00: Well, five years ago, I had ovarian cancer and had to have a full hysterectomy, went on a medical leave of absence.
49:11
SPEAKER_00: The next woman.
49:13
SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm currently dealing with some pretty major health things.
49:17
SPEAKER_00: Um, some just autoimmune stuff that's been, and I had to take a break from schools.
49:25
SPEAKER_00: Um, the next woman, all illnesses, straight down the line.
49:31
SPEAKER_00: And I'm listening, thinking, oh my God, like how awful.
49:36
SPEAKER_00: So, I mean, what is the one of the consequences?
49:38
SPEAKER_00: I do believe that, of course, there's going to be an emotional and mental health toll that continuing to perform in a way that no longer fits your life, fits your goals, fits your values.
49:53
SPEAKER_00: But there are real physiological consequences to stress.
49:56
SPEAKER_00: And most of the women I'm working with who are questioning if they should like blow up their life, they are their cortisol levels.
50:03
SPEAKER_00: If I had to like actually do like some blood testing, are ridiculously high.
50:08
SPEAKER_00: And so I think it's like, you know, you asked me at the start of this conversation like why I wanted to talk about this, because you know, we're joking around a lot and we're being playful, and I think it is something that we should be playful about, but it's got real serious consequences if we don't really, if we continue to sort of privilege everyone and everything else before ourselves, that's gonna that's not gonna end well for us.
50:34
SPEAKER_00: That part where we privilege everyone else besides ourselves.
50:38
SPEAKER_00: So I am going to validate this is how you know we're in higher education, validate that story with the research and data.
50:45
SPEAKER_00: So I got, are you familiar with Dr.
50:46
SPEAKER_00: Gabor Mate, by the way?
50:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
50:49
SPEAKER_00: So he's a Hungarian Jew.
50:51
SPEAKER_00: He survived the Holocaust.
50:53
SPEAKER_00: I think he was like two months old when the Holocaust happened.
50:55
SPEAKER_00: And he's a real doctor.
50:57
SPEAKER_00: I say real doctor because the book in higher ed, but like medical doctor from Canada.
51:01
SPEAKER_00: And he was sharing that with autoimmune diseases, as well as like any diseases, whether it's physical, mental, or emotional, there are higher stats with women versus men.
51:14
SPEAKER_00: And that's because of how society has taught women to hold more, to comply, to hold more emotional labor, to suffer more.
51:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and not put themselves first.
51:29
SPEAKER_00: Because you put themselves first, then it's like boo-boo.
51:32
SPEAKER_00: But then it shows up in our body.
51:34
SPEAKER_00: So you could research it, use Google, use AI, that there is higher percentages of women in autoimmune diseases versus men.
51:43
SPEAKER_00: And also fun fact that he shared a male, a straight male, he shared this.
51:50
SPEAKER_00: White men, sorry, no, men in general who are married live longer when they're married to someone, to a partner, right?
51:58
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
52:00
SPEAKER_00: Um, married women not.
52:02
SPEAKER_00: Single women actually live longer.
52:04
SPEAKER_00: Single women, golden girl style is like the lifestyle all should strive for.
52:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for sure.
52:08
SPEAKER_00: Look up the stats.
52:10
SPEAKER_00: Um, I am not trying to encourage not being married.
52:14
SPEAKER_00: What both Meredith, if you believe in that, and not saying I don't, I do believe in it.
52:19
SPEAKER_00: But what I'm trying to encourage, or what we're hoping our intention is like when you put yourself first, you don't have to be sick and go through all these things.
52:30
unknown: Yeah.
52:31
SPEAKER_00: It does blow up.
52:32
SPEAKER_00: Like, and I'm not saying blow up in terms of your personal life, but it will blow up in your body, unfortunately.
52:38
SPEAKER_00: There's so much research and data.
52:40
SPEAKER_00: You were gonna share something.
52:41
SPEAKER_00: I saw you have.
52:41
SPEAKER_00: Well, I just I'm listening and I'm like, I'm kind of thinking about you know, if I'm a woman listening to this and I'm sort of like at the crossroads, like what would I need immediately?
52:52
SPEAKER_00: And I would say you need people who've gone through this who you can talk to.
53:01
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
53:02
SPEAKER_00: And I would say I did that.
53:04
SPEAKER_00: What I did saying, what I did was I went through my little Rolodex.
53:08
SPEAKER_00: If you don't know what a Rolodex is.
53:10
SPEAKER_00: Wait, we're talking about midlife.
53:11
SPEAKER_00: You should all know what a Rolodex is.
53:12
SPEAKER_00: Everyone address buck.
53:14
SPEAKER_00: Please email Elaine if you don't know what a Rolodex is, and she'll send you a picture.
53:19
SPEAKER_00: No, don't email it to me, fax it to me.
53:23
SPEAKER_00: Even better.
53:24
SPEAKER_00: Um, Rolodex contact.
53:26
SPEAKER_00: And what I did, and I had to be honest with myself, I went through my contact list.
53:30
SPEAKER_00: Who are people that I respect that have aligned their lives to what feels good for them?
53:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love that.
53:37
SPEAKER_00: And not necessarily the like CEO quarter office, but like they could be an art teacher, but they you know that they're fucking happy.
53:46
SPEAKER_00: Like, and we all know who's like truly happy in their lives and just interview them, be a scientist, like what you said earlier.
53:52
SPEAKER_00: Um, and guess what?
53:53
SPEAKER_00: You're like, oh, I don't want to waste our time.
53:55
SPEAKER_00: People love talking about themselves.
53:57
SPEAKER_00: And the unfortunate thing about this decade, the 2020s, because of COVID, is that we're so virtual.
54:04
SPEAKER_00: We think I'm just gonna deal with it myself, be a superhero, be a superwoman.
54:09
SPEAKER_00: We are human beings, like our ancestors survived and thrived living in a village.
54:16
SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
54:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
54:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
54:18
SPEAKER_00: And I think you'll know, you'll know.
54:20
SPEAKER_00: You'll you'll see who, you know, when I was starting my business, I know nothing about, I don't have a business background.
54:29
SPEAKER_00: Like I probably, if you had to draw up the opposite of a business background, that's what I have.
54:35
SPEAKER_00: And the people who stepped up for me were mostly women, mostly women of color, some men for sure.
54:40
SPEAKER_00: And people were, people are energized and motivated by courage.
54:48
SPEAKER_00: And I don't, you know, people are like, to this day, people be like, that's so courageous that you did this thing and you left this really secure career.
54:57
SPEAKER_00: You were really successful.
54:59
SPEAKER_00: I still don't think of it as courage, honestly.
55:02
SPEAKER_00: I I understand why they do.
55:04
SPEAKER_00: To me, it's about an in I became, I reached a point in life where I was intolerant.
55:10
SPEAKER_00: I was no longer willing to ignore my value system.
55:15
SPEAKER_00: My values were loud and they were like, yo, girl, you we're not aligned, and this feels crappy.
55:23
SPEAKER_00: And once I gave myself, once I sort of bet on myself just a little bit more each day, like just a little bit, um I would reap that benefit.
55:34
SPEAKER_00: And it, you know, it gave me just a little bit more encouragement to do it again the next day.
55:38
SPEAKER_00: Right.
55:39
SPEAKER_00: So I think I also just want people to really hear that powerful change can happen from incremental moments.
55:49
SPEAKER_00: And I want people to hear that because we live in an Amazon Prime world in a capitalistic society where it's like fast.
55:56
SPEAKER_00: You want to lose weight, go get Ozempic.
55:59
SPEAKER_00: Um, just really quick, but it's those minor little things.
56:02
SPEAKER_00: But I want to make sure we go back to actionable steps people could do.
56:07
SPEAKER_00: So I heard the first step from you is go through your Rolodex.
56:16
SPEAKER_00: And I would, yeah, yellow pages for those of you that don't know.
56:20
SPEAKER_00: I'm bringing it back.
56:21
SPEAKER_00: I want to bring it even are basically what Yelp and Google was before.
56:27
SPEAKER_00: Literally, it was Yellow Pages.
56:28
SPEAKER_00: It was a big book that you would get.
56:29
SPEAKER_00: I think Pac Bell gave it to us.
56:31
SPEAKER_00: Who was the company?
56:32
SPEAKER_00: Whatever the phone company is in your area.
56:34
SPEAKER_00: Back, but Pac Bell doesn't exist for mobile phones.
56:37
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
56:38
SPEAKER_00: So, anyways, so one, I'm hearing the talk to people.
56:43
SPEAKER_00: And then two, we talked about it a little too like give space and time for the voices in your head to come up, like give space to speak to them.
56:52
SPEAKER_00: Anything else you want to share?
56:54
SPEAKER_00: I think having some kind of critical self-reflection practice, I think that can look really different for everybody.
56:58
SPEAKER_00: That might mean you journal, that might mean you go to yoga, that might mean you go to therapy.
57:03
SPEAKER_00: I think just giving yourself when you're in those moments of quiet, giving yourself space and time to reflect.
57:10
SPEAKER_00: For me, I can do that by myself to a up to a point, but then I need external help.
57:16
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, it's part of why you go to therapy, it's part of why you and I were working together.
57:21
SPEAKER_00: Um, because I really believe in like seeking wisdom.
57:25
SPEAKER_00: I don't have to learn everything the hard way.
57:27
SPEAKER_00: I can like solicit the wisdom of other people.
57:29
SPEAKER_00: Um, the other thing I would say is you're probably gonna feel vulnerable during this time.
57:34
SPEAKER_00: And so it's really important, you know, this is not the time to be like on the phone with that one friend who's kind of always the naysayer.
57:42
SPEAKER_00: Like, this is the time to really surround yourself and tap into your village that you know really on a deep level, have your back and like trust you because there will be moments in this journey where you will not trust yourself.
57:59
SPEAKER_00: You will wonder if you've made mistakes, you will question things.
58:02
SPEAKER_00: And what you need in those moments is someone who can remind you of who you are.
58:08
SPEAKER_00: Now you got this.
58:09
SPEAKER_00: You'll figure this out, and you're good.
58:11
SPEAKER_00: And you'll know.
58:12
SPEAKER_00: I mean, whether it's a friend, a therapist, a coach, all three, um, ask yourself the hard question like, do I feel safe with this person?
58:21
SPEAKER_00: And it's nothing on the person, by the way.
58:23
SPEAKER_00: I also want to show you, totally.
58:25
SPEAKER_00: And I will be direct.
58:26
SPEAKER_00: This probably happened to you.
58:28
SPEAKER_00: You will trigger the fuck out of some people when you're talking to them when you think you feel safe because they're probably in a midlife crisis, but they don't want to talk about it.
58:36
SPEAKER_00: And I don't even think I share this with you, Meredith, because I am up for my recertification for my PCC.
58:44
SPEAKER_00: It's a certification for coaching.
58:46
SPEAKER_00: And I'm doing this program called Internal Family Systems.
58:50
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, I love IFS.
58:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, my therapist has used it on me and I started being nerdy.
58:56
SPEAKER_00: I was like, wait, is there a coaching program?
58:57
SPEAKER_00: And there was, so I'm going through it to get the units, but I'm gonna just paint an image for all of you because like I don't want to pause and listen to my thoughts.
59:05
SPEAKER_00: So think of it like inside out.
59:07
SPEAKER_00: You have a boardroom, except that little voice that Meredith was talking about.
59:13
SPEAKER_00: This doesn't align with your values.
59:15
SPEAKER_00: Maybe you don't like this job, maybe like you need to improve on your relationship.
59:19
SPEAKER_00: They're the people that you've been hushing the voices, like shut the fuck up.
59:26
SPEAKER_00: Like this person's we don't have time for this.
59:28
SPEAKER_00: We don't have time for this, we just need to do the work.
59:30
SPEAKER_00: This hyper-vigilant person, they've been performing, they've been hitting like our quotas, we've been getting bonuses with this person.
59:36
SPEAKER_00: But then the pro it starts cracking, the floor keeps cracking.
59:40
SPEAKER_00: And so what you need to do, and mind you, all parts of yourself, they're all coming with good intention, right?
59:49
SPEAKER_00: Like anxiety part.
59:50
SPEAKER_00: Like there's a fire next to you, you should probably run away.
59:54
SPEAKER_00: Anxiety could be good.
59:55
SPEAKER_00: So all those parts finally raise up, and you do need to give voice to them, whether you're listening, talking to a friend, talking to a therapist, or a coach.
1:00:06
SPEAKER_00: You know, as someone who struggles with chronic kind of overthinking, um, I also, and I don't know if this is useful to say, I also needed to give myself permission to put parameters on it.
1:00:19
SPEAKER_00: Because here's what would happen to me, because I'm so used to running it like such a high when I first left schools, I was like, I have to solve this problem as fast as possible.
1:00:28
SPEAKER_00: So I'm going to journal for nine hours.
1:00:31
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna go to all the therapy.
1:00:32
SPEAKER_00: I like overcorrected initially, which is also quite counterproductive.
1:00:37
SPEAKER_00: So it's about finding balance.
1:00:40
SPEAKER_00: So, okay, I'm gonna spend two hours, you know, kind of investigating a what's next step, and then I'm gonna go to the gym.
1:00:50
SPEAKER_00: And then I'm gonna like go to the grocery store because I need to, you know, think about what I'm making for dinner tonight.
1:00:54
SPEAKER_00: And really, because so many women I work with think they have to be hyperproductive constantly, or else disaster will strike.
1:01:04
SPEAKER_00: So part of the bravery, part of these micro moments of bravery, is also recognizing you actually don't have to have all the answers by end of business today.
1:01:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:01:15
SPEAKER_00: And I think what has helped me to make a decision, the micro ones, not just the big ones, right?
1:01:22
SPEAKER_00: The micro does end up going to the big, is making sure I'm not making a decision in a hide-end state.
1:01:28
SPEAKER_00: And what I mean by hide-end state, I'm not making a decision when I'm completely elated or completely sad, right?
1:01:34
SPEAKER_00: Completely elated.
1:01:35
SPEAKER_00: Yep, I feel so 100%.
1:01:36
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna do this.
1:01:37
SPEAKER_00: Completely sad to like fuck this shit.
1:01:39
SPEAKER_00: I don't want to feel this way.
1:01:40
SPEAKER_00: I need to make a decision.
1:01:41
SPEAKER_00: I make sure I make a decision where I am neutral.
1:01:45
SPEAKER_00: And that's when I know how to move forward from it.
1:01:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love that.
1:01:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, if your little amygdala is getting tickled, just you know, go sit on the couch for a while.
1:01:54
SPEAKER_00: So I am sure people are in love with you.
1:01:58
SPEAKER_00: Hopefully.
1:01:59
SPEAKER_00: Go ahead and send Meredith a fax.
1:02:01
SPEAKER_00: We'll put Meredith's fax in.
1:02:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, send me your fax.
1:02:05
SPEAKER_00: Wait till your dial up connects.
1:02:09
SPEAKER_00: Well, what was your aim screen name?
1:02:11
SPEAKER_00: Oh gosh.
1:02:12
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I think it was because I think it was USC Mare Bear.
1:02:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, she's a Trojan.
1:02:19
SPEAKER_00: She went to USC.
1:02:20
SPEAKER_00: I did.
1:02:21
SPEAKER_00: Sorry, everybody.
1:02:22
SPEAKER_00: My partner went to USC, so I always have to hear Trojan.
1:02:24
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, okay, let's do the UCLA eight clap.
1:02:26
SPEAKER_00: And they're like, fuck you.
1:02:29
SPEAKER_00: For those that don't know USC anymore.
1:02:30
SPEAKER_00: My dad was UCLA.
1:02:32
SPEAKER_00: How's that?
1:02:33
SPEAKER_00: We can can I claim both?
1:02:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and then became a USC professor.
1:02:36
SPEAKER_00: Well, you know, that's what I'm a job, so I don't know.
1:02:41
SPEAKER_00: Um so people probably all in love with you.
1:02:45
SPEAKER_00: And for the I don't think a lot of people have faxes, unfortunately.
1:02:48
SPEAKER_00: So if people want to connect with you.
1:02:51
SPEAKER_00: There.
1:02:52
SPEAKER_00: What's your aim screen?
1:02:53
SPEAKER_00: I'm just kidding.
1:02:54
SPEAKER_00: How can people connect with your learn more about your work?
1:02:57
SPEAKER_00: I want if you are gonna connect with me, I want you to send me what your aim screen name was.
1:03:03
SPEAKER_00: That would be so fun.
1:03:04
SPEAKER_00: Um, yes, that would be great.
1:03:07
SPEAKER_00: Well, okay, so you can always go to my website, which is just M Herrera Consulting.
1:03:11
SPEAKER_00: I'll spell my last name.
1:03:12
SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of Rs.
1:03:14
SPEAKER_00: M-H-E-R-R-E-R-A Consulting.com.
1:03:18
SPEAKER_00: I'll put in the show notes too, by the way.
1:03:20
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
1:03:21
SPEAKER_00: And we'll have to.
1:03:22
SPEAKER_00: Or you can look me up on LinkedIn.
1:03:23
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's probably the best place to learn about what I do and talk to me directly.
1:03:28
SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's just under my name, Meredith Ereta.
1:03:31
SPEAKER_00: H-E-R-R-E-R-A.
1:03:33
SPEAKER_00: And you got to work with me.
1:03:36
SPEAKER_00: Anything you want to share about how it was like working with me?
1:03:39
SPEAKER_00: Oh, wait, before that, I should share my aim screen names.
1:03:42
SPEAKER_00: I apologize, everybody.
1:03:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, what was yours?
1:03:45
SPEAKER_00: Mine was okay.
1:03:46
SPEAKER_00: You're gonna all think I have a dirty mind.
1:03:48
SPEAKER_00: I thought it was cute.
1:03:49
SPEAKER_00: I'm just gonna give context, okay?
1:03:51
SPEAKER_00: I thought it was one, cute, two, I was born December 1st, okay?
1:03:54
SPEAKER_00: So I wanted to do a winter theme.
1:03:56
SPEAKER_00: Oh no, I'm so scared.
1:03:58
SPEAKER_00: My screen name was Snowy Lollipops.
1:04:03
SPEAKER_00: I promise I did not have a dirty mind then.
1:04:07
SPEAKER_00: Different now.
1:04:07
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
1:04:08
SPEAKER_00: I know.
1:04:09
SPEAKER_00: So I have to give context, okay?
1:04:12
SPEAKER_00: It was cute.
1:04:12
SPEAKER_00: Don't you think it's cute when you frame it?
1:04:15
SPEAKER_00: Yes, when you think about that time and length where we were and how old we were.
1:04:20
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
1:04:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, teenagers.
1:04:21
SPEAKER_00: Like I just wasn't thinking that, but yeah, now reflecting back.
1:04:25
SPEAKER_00: No.
1:04:26
unknown: Okay.
1:04:26
SPEAKER_00: So how was how was it working with snowy lollipops?
1:04:30
SPEAKER_00: Snowy lollipops was great, everybody.
1:04:32
SPEAKER_00: Uh that's so funny.
1:04:34
SPEAKER_00: Um I I'm gonna see you in a couple of weeks, and I'm gonna try really hard not to say that out loud in front of all the people.
1:04:43
SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, uh, it was great.
1:04:46
SPEAKER_00: I mean, because okay, so I think I need to give people context.
1:04:49
SPEAKER_00: So, like part of the work that I'm doing with Elaine is sort of learning to sort of trying to pivot in some different directions with my business, trying to amplify my business in a different way.
1:05:00
SPEAKER_00: And again, I shared, I don't have a lot of that context and background.
1:05:03
SPEAKER_00: So I I go to what I think is so helpful.
1:05:07
SPEAKER_00: I try to try to practice what I preach, which is to solicit the perspective and wisdom of people who navigate this all the time, help others navigate it.
1:05:18
SPEAKER_00: So it's been great because I I think having when you enter new spaces, whether professionally or personally, you kind of don't know what you don't know.
1:05:25
SPEAKER_00: And so having guidance and partnership in that journey is like so important.
1:05:31
SPEAKER_00: And then we laugh.
1:05:32
SPEAKER_00: And you and I, I think it's also I see this to my perspective clients, like coaches to me, like therapists, coaches, they're like shoes.
1:05:40
SPEAKER_00: Some are gonna fit better than others.
1:05:42
SPEAKER_00: So I also wanted to work with someone who has like a shared, we have some cultural overlap, I would say, and some like a shared sort of philosophy.
1:05:51
SPEAKER_00: And I also can't work with like humorous old white men.
1:06:00
SPEAKER_00: Sorry.
1:06:00
SPEAKER_00: Is that okay to say?
1:06:02
SPEAKER_00: I want to laugh and find joy and and learn and and I want those all to be in the same 50 minute coaching block.
1:06:08
SPEAKER_00: And it is in the same Well, how would you describe my coaching style to anyone that might be interested in working with me and the results you've gotten?
1:06:20
SPEAKER_00: I think you provide a lot of space for people to think out loud.
1:06:26
SPEAKER_00: But then those sort of really good strategic questions you ask help me at least um hear myself more clearly, like define things for myself more clearly.
1:06:39
SPEAKER_00: You know?
1:06:39
SPEAKER_00: Um I'm laughing because like Meredith, I'm just using your words right now when I ask a question.
1:06:44
SPEAKER_00: Take that on, put that on your website.
1:06:46
SPEAKER_00: What do you want?
1:06:46
SPEAKER_00: You want to I I got you, girl.
1:06:48
SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, I think that's what it's like.
1:06:51
SPEAKER_00: It you know, you're deeply supported.
1:06:53
SPEAKER_00: You ask really good questions that push my thinking in a different direction, or and you're good at tracking, you know, what I might have said three minutes earlier, and you're like, no girl, we're not gonna skip over that.
1:07:05
SPEAKER_00: I know you think we were gonna skip over that, but we're gonna go back to that.
1:07:08
SPEAKER_00: And it's usually right on point.
1:07:10
SPEAKER_00: It's great.
1:07:11
SPEAKER_00: It's thought partnership, it's encouragement, it's accountability partnership.
1:07:15
SPEAKER_00: Like, hey, did you do the thing that you said you wanted to do in the week that we had to do it?
1:07:19
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, sometimes yes, sometimes no.
1:07:22
SPEAKER_00: Um so that's that's what I would say.
1:07:25
SPEAKER_00: I know you still haven't gone in the green suit yet.
1:07:28
SPEAKER_00: I have tried.
1:07:29
SPEAKER_00: In my defense, I have tried, and every time it's sold out in my size.
1:07:34
SPEAKER_00: I'm also a stylist.
1:07:35
SPEAKER_00: I'm kidding.
1:07:35
SPEAKER_00: No, it's just like we do talk about we do talk about that, and I think it's important because I mostly dress in athleisure, so I do need to up my game a little bit.
1:07:45
SPEAKER_00: So to close out this episode, what is one thing you wanna because you know we're humans.
1:07:53
SPEAKER_00: We were talking about enough.
1:07:54
SPEAKER_00: We can't we can't possibly hold everything together when we have serious conversations like this.
1:08:00
SPEAKER_00: But what's one thing you hope people get from this episode?
1:08:03
SPEAKER_00: I think one thing I would say is if you find yourself wrestling with some of these existential questions, and that the fact that you're asking those questions is feels scary to you.
1:08:17
SPEAKER_00: I want you to hear that it's really normal and you're not alone.
1:08:22
SPEAKER_00: I mean, Elaine and I meet with clients all the time who ask themselves these questions a lot.
1:08:27
SPEAKER_00: It's a really normal part of this phase of life.
1:08:31
SPEAKER_00: And there are answers to those questions, or it may be just a moment where you're asking those questions.
1:08:38
SPEAKER_00: So I think that's what I would want them to know is that it's normal to be thinking about these things.
1:08:43
SPEAKER_00: It's normal to like, you know, in a in a when you're driving to work, like, what the fuck am I doing?
1:08:50
SPEAKER_00: Do I want to keep doing this?
1:08:51
SPEAKER_00: Like it's normal to ask those questions.
1:08:52
SPEAKER_00: They can sound dramatic on the surface, but they're that's okay.
1:08:55
SPEAKER_00: It's normal.
1:08:56
SPEAKER_00: And you're not the only one asking them.
1:08:58
SPEAKER_00: That's what I would want them to know.
1:08:59
SPEAKER_00: And I'm just gonna add that analogy.
1:09:01
SPEAKER_00: I am glad we're at your boardroom and you're giving space for these people to finally speak to be listened to rather than shutting them down.
1:09:13
SPEAKER_00: So, Meredith.
1:09:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, maybe that's yeah, maybe that's the last takeaway is like you deserve to give yourself permission to redefine your life.
1:09:23
SPEAKER_00: You're the author of your life, nobody else is in the driver's seat.
1:09:26
SPEAKER_00: You get to decide at every stage of life what life gets to look like, and it's okay to have that desire.
1:09:34
SPEAKER_00: You know, and I think a huge thing, unfortunately, as women of color, well, I guess I can only speak for myself where it's like, I want someone to tell me what to do, right?
1:09:44
SPEAKER_00: But the reality is in different points of your life, the only person that knows is you.
1:09:50
SPEAKER_00: So, mind you, like, I mean, Meredith and I, right, we're coaches, but even if we give suggestions, we all will always ask, how does that land for you?
1:09:59
SPEAKER_00: You know, does this align for you or not?
1:10:02
SPEAKER_00: But you need to ask yourself that question yourself.
1:10:04
SPEAKER_00: So when you have conversations with people, even we're working with a therapist or a coach, like I was yelling at my coach, like, I didn't listen to what you said because this, this, and this.
1:10:15
SPEAKER_00: But yes, I'm spending money, I was like, but there's a reason why.
1:10:20
SPEAKER_00: Like it's learning how to trust your own voice.
1:10:24
SPEAKER_00: That's the work.
1:10:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's part of the work.
1:10:27
SPEAKER_00: Meredith, thank you for this uh conversation.
1:10:31
SPEAKER_00: You're so welcome.
1:10:32
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for having me.
1:10:33
SPEAKER_00: It's such a treat to be able to talk about this stuff with you.
1:10:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and you'll see snowy lollipops in a couple of years.
1:10:38
SPEAKER_00: Snowy lollipops, here she comes.
1:10:50
SPEAKER_00: Remember, you are not alone.
1:10:53
SPEAKER_00: Reach out to people uh that you realize, you know what, they look happy.
1:10:59
SPEAKER_00: They were able to reinvent their life.
1:11:02
SPEAKER_00: And when you talk to them, be a researcher, ask them questions.
1:11:08
SPEAKER_00: Hey, what made you decide to make this transition?
1:11:10
SPEAKER_00: How do you feel now compared to before?
1:11:12
SPEAKER_00: And if you need further help, consider getting a coach, getting a therapist, or figure out which one you need, or maybe both.
1:11:22
SPEAKER_00: And I always get asked what's the difference between this two.
1:11:25
SPEAKER_00: So if you think you are going through a block where you need to honor your voice or you feel this pressure from loved ones, from society, then definitely work with a therapist because a therapist will help you with those blocks in the past.
1:11:42
SPEAKER_00: And if you already have a therapist, if you're aware and you need a plan and accountability to be aligned to this current version of you, then a coach like either me or Meredith would be extremely helpful.
1:11:59
SPEAKER_00: And if you're interested in possibly working with me, you could schedule a call with me at elanelew.com forward slash call.
1:12:08
SPEAKER_00: And if you know one or two people that could benefit from this episode who feel like they just want to blow up their career right now, share this episode with them.
1:12:22
SPEAKER_00: Send them a personal message.
1:12:23
SPEAKER_00: Hey, you need to listen to this.
1:12:25
SPEAKER_00: I know we've been talking about this a lot.
1:12:26
SPEAKER_00: This would just resonate with you.
1:12:28
SPEAKER_00: Also, if you really loved this podcast, it would really mean so much if you could leave a rating and review.
1:12:37
SPEAKER_00: My team and I created this podcast to provide an accessible resource for all.
1:12:44
SPEAKER_00: So when you leave a rating and review, it will let the podcast universe and gods know hey, you should listen to this podcast.
1:12:52
SPEAKER_00: All right.
1:12:53
SPEAKER_00: I'll talk to you next time.