Latest / The Future Travel Experience (FTE) Podcast / IAG on AI, Biometrics & the Future of Aviation Innovation

Transcript

IAG on AI, Biometrics & the Future of Aviation Innovation · The Future Travel Experience (FTE) Podcast

• 0:09
  SPEAKER_03: Ever felt like the world is moving too fast, that there's simply not enough time between clearing your inbox and joining the next team's call to give deep and meaningful thought to the technologies that are about to transform your aviation operation?
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_03: Well, help is at hand with this new Future Travel Experience podcast.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_03: Proud to be part of the Apex family.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_03: My name is Max Gosny, I'm the new MD at FTE, and this pod is designed as a community support group for all you busy aviation professionals feeling bamboozled by the searing pace of change.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_03: Tune in for a collaborative and friendly forum where we'll guide you on the innovations that are too important to ignore.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_03: Each episode, I'll be interviewing aviation chiefs who've blazed a trail with new technology.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_03: We'll get behind the hype to explore the very human challenges standing in the way of successful implementation.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_03: What leadership traits are essential to drive change?
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_03: Is AI overrated?
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_03: And how do we win that all-important employee buy-in for change?
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_03: You can listen on your way to work while traveling to an Apex FTE event, or even while walking your dog.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_03: Whatever your preference, you'll uncover a wealth of collaboration, best practice, and creative thinking.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_03: Enjoy.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_03: You know, recently we took my son to the aquarium for his birthday, and there we discovered a rather amazing octopus that was capable of solving Lego puzzles.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_03: When we got home, we did a little bit more research, and the octopus is part of the Ketalopod of the series of animals, I believe the elephant is also part of the group.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_03: They're highly intelligent, they're amazing problem solvers, but they're not quite as good as us humans.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_03: And why is that?
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_03: Well, one thing that humans have the edge on is an incredible ability when we put our minds to it to collaborate.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_03: When we cooperate, when we did cooperate hundreds and thousands of years ago, we managed to come together as tribes to improve our hunting and to move effectively out of Africa to colonize the rest of the world.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_03: It was our ability to come together as a team that was fundamental.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_03: It wasn't our strength, it wasn't the length of our cause, it was the way that we could interact as a group to get the job done.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_03: You know, an octopus, as bright as it is, just doesn't have that advantage.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_03: Every Lego puzzle you drop in the tank, it has to solve it from scratch.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_03: There's no one there saying put the yellow brick next to the green and just you know twist it a little.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_03: Why then do we always struggle, perhaps in aviation, to work together collaboratively when it's the secret of any successful implementation?
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_03: That was one of the questions that I had for the team at IAG when I met up with them at Waterside to discover more about the airline group's remote focus on driving implementation of the successful new technologies into its operation.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_03: I met Army with Harvey Tay, the head of Airport Innovation, Pete Walters, the group transformational lead, and David Grees, the VP of Airport Automation and Operations.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_03: You hear the episode now, and really a shout out to a company that doesn't just believe it wants to introduce innovation to drive its own performance and that of passengers it serves, but believes there is a role to play in driving in technologies that benefit the entire aviation family.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_03: Enjoy the episode.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_03: Hello guys.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_03: With so much going on in the world right now, and um we're all looking at the rising fuel prices with the uh situation in Iran.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_03: There might be some people out there in the aviation world who say we can't afford right now to look at innovation.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_03: There are more important matters.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_03: What do you say to that and why is innovation um such an important facet, whatever the operating conditions?
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, so yeah, I think um, you know, our industry has always struggled with transformation and innovation.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: I it's just I always talk about purely about the nature of an airline business.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: We fly to many airports, and airports have to accommodate many airlines.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um and we have an awful lot of stakeholders and regulation across our business, which which you know the effect is it slows us down.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: We standardize um through organisations like IMATA and ACI.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that has driven an awful lot of value from our business over the years, but it has had the effect of slowing us down.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you know, we want every airport to operate in the same way.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: So therefore, introducing change and transformation is really, really hard.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but we've kind of remember we're we're operating an industry based on the ideas from the 1980s and the 1990s, and little has changed.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, an awful lot of our processes are still manual.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and and the opportunities are around technology now, especially there are opportunities to automate.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: So, innovation really is key to bring those ideas to the forefront and show that they are viable and not just feasible but vulnerable as well, um, and and work with stakeholders, not just within one airline and one airport, but across the industry.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: So with IG, we we work in the IG Transform Transform um department at IEG for Jorge, and uh you know, and our mission statement is transform the industry.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's not transform IEG or not transform M Randomizer, it's transform the industry.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: So you know, we we need to work with our partners, whether it's the regulator, the airports, the suppliers, the ground handlers to drive that change through.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_03: Do you sense to that that you know we are seeing the uh global instability at the moment, that the innovation will come under pressure?
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_03: And how should the industry resist that pressure?
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_03: Is it so important?
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I think you know, we're over the years, certainly you know, I've been around long enough to see many of these challenges come and face.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I think as as a as businesses, we've become more resilient to these impacts.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we have a we've we've operated before with a high fuel price.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you know, we we have mechanisms now to to commercial uh mechanisms to help soften the impact of that and work with it.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um and you know, we'll go through cost controls, but I think you know, it's clear from an leadership team that when you listen to Luis talking or Jorge talking, you know, innovation or transformation is is you know frequently mentioned within the first few sentences of whatever they say.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we need to do this.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: So the next five years are going to be critical, you know, passenger numbers will will increase, you know, just by you know, the the hopefully the effects we're seeing at the moment are temporary and that the the industry will continue to grow.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um but the the infrastructure that we use isn't going to grow quickly enough to accommodate that growth of passengers.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: So we need to find ways to be more and more efficient.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_03: So no time for stopping right now.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um you mentioned Luis and a really interesting quote I read from uh Luis there, which said, We as IG, we try to invest in things that deliver value for our business and for aviation um you know in general.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_03: We want technology that can improve existing performance, the revenue, the cost, or the customer experience.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_03: Um I'll come to you, Keith.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_03: What of the technologies that we're seeing on the horizon now sort of fits into that vision um most neatly for you?
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_04: I think one of the ones that just jumps out to me is is around timestamping.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_04: And we've um we've worked with companies like SIA that um came up through our um accelerator program and we've invested in.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_04: And and there really are the lead industry out there, uh, a lead um manufacturer supplier for time stamping technology across the world now.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_04: And they they um have delivered something which is uh innovative and it's also is changing the way that we look at our operation, because traditionally you've recorded information in a very manual way, but by bringing in timestamping and video analytics, you're now bringing in uh much better data.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_04: So you're looking at something that's consistent, it is uh reliable, uh, and it's objective, and that data is I I feel is a real key thing because when you then apply uh the likes of AI, you look at uh um quantum computing and all those different um uh innovations that are coming in the future or or even here now, um, that fits into it very well because if if we're gonna start making benefit from those technologies, we need good data.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_04: And and to me, then you know that shows why companies like uh ASIA are really a key sort of uh uh example of of how we've developed, we've worked with innovation, we've invested in it, and we've helped to nurture it along, and now we're starting to make the benefit of it.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_03: And that technology, correct me if I'm wrong, but layman's times we are it allows you to kind of observe and measure turnaround procedures extremely closely on aircraft, looking at what each ground handler is doing and then using that to optimize.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_04: So you you basically have cameras there that are picking up activities, using um uh machine learning to understand what what a high loader looks like, what a baggage cart looks like, uh, what a comb, what an engine, all those different elements, and being able to say when that object appears, when it disappears.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_04: So you're now getting start and finish times for each of those activities.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_04: So I now know you know with a high very high level of um uh accuracy that the loading has started at this time and the loading has finished at that time, or the catering started here, the catering finished there.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_04: And those are the the elements that start to build up that really consistent data.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and that technology is evolving as well.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_04: You know, we're looking at what's the next generation using video.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_04: Is that is that the next generation?
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_04: Because it's video has been around many years.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_04: We're now looking at LiDAR technology, providing the same sort of thing, but not affected by weather as as much, and also giving a 3D vision as opposed to a 2D vision.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_04: So again, it's not just standing still with that, it's moving forward because this is the thing with our industry is that aviation is not standing still.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_04: Uh our processes, as Harvey's mentioned, you know, tend to be quite stagnant, but ultimately with the opportunities for innovation, we now have um that opportunity to push where where those processes are and replace some of those activities that the human would do using the technology to support them and benefit um not only in our operational performance but safety and well-being of our people.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_04: A baggage handler lifting and twisting all day long is is a risk, risky business to be in.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_04: And if we can start using robotics to actually help us in that, then again, it's about how we improve that that uh landscape for our people.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_03: What have been some of the biggest revelations so far from that project with the science when you've been you know monitoring turnarounds?
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_04: I think it's when you start to align the information from the turnarounds and build up that picture of what that turnaround time takes, it's where you then apply it to a precision time schedule where we've said that there's a certain amount of time for this activity and that activity, but it was always based on a manual observation of data.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_04: Whereas now you've got a much bigger uh data set that you can start looking at, and you see that actually that activity takes either longer or shorter, and you can start to refine that, and that is where you start to look at the savings that you can make in that turnaround process, making those more efficient, being able to be more um proactive in understanding where where that if a if there's a delay at this point, what will that impact the actual off-blocks time at the end?
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_04: How can we adjust that?
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_04: How can we make movements within that turnaround to get it back on online um so that we're not creating a delay and that we can actually deal with it?
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_04: So it's that sort of proactivity that it brings to it and also precision uh timing that we can now refine in more detail.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_03: Have you seen turnaround times drop as a result of using that?
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_04: Have you seen a reduction in?
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, with certain activities, we've been able to see um definitely that that that is starting to improve.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_04: There's still a lot of work to go, it's it's still new, um, and it's at the moment the biggest problem is getting airports around the world to invest in the technology.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, we've invested at Heathrow um extensively to be able to have that technology as our hub airport for British Airways.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but there are other opportunities around the world where we would, you know, we certainly encourage airports to invest in it because it's not the airlines that are the only people to benefit from it.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_04: The airports benefit from it, the ground handlers, and ultimately the customer benefits from it.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, which is of course universal to all those stakeholders and the most important of all all the uh all the facets in all of this.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_03: So no, no, very true.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you, Keith.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_03: Um, we talk a lot about collaboration and certainly future travel experience is all about providing that um community forum to drive improvement and innovation.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_03: Um, what does effective collaboration look like, um, Harvey?
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_03: And um how do you tell when you've got it up and running and it's really working?
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think um it it's a quite a subjective thing.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's difficult to quantify, but I think uh you know, across our industry, it's always been a strong element of our industry is collaboration, born out of those standards, really.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: We we talk about how how we do things and the processes and the technology we use.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so you know, one of the small ramp initiative or or the boost program that's you know come out of FTE has been really helpful introducing the right sort of partners to talk to in terms of solving, trying to solve those problems we all all face.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think you know, rather than going to a conference um or an expo and seeing someone present what they've done in a polished way, what smaller booth has done is actually spent, you know, has an ability to go and spend you know several members of whole delay with a group of us talking in depth about the challenges and our individual problems and sharing requirements, sharing issues, sharing, sharing, sharing solutions.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um you can get a much, much more in-depth view of how how these projects are progressing and how how people are solving those problems.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: And it's that that collaboration that's really helped for us.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: And we can, you know, we're we you know, it's an idea we're not going to solve all of the problems on the ramp or in baggage or in logistics or you know, above the wing, but but knowing that Ken Chipple are doing these things, knowing that uh Inchon they're looking at these things for baggage or in Osmo, you know, it gives you much more confidence that we're all moving together in the same direction that can sort of validate some of our projects, as well as know that someone else is taking care of that that problem and that issue whilst we focus on on something else.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: So um it's those initiatives that you know subjectively or qualitatively are really, really, really useful.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: And that's that's why we need you know uh things like FD driving that collaboration for us, along with you know, the baggage innovation working group and the innovation hub, you know, it helps us know what's going on out across the the globe um with with airlines, airports, airport authorities, etc.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it's super important, I think.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you, thank you, RPN.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, vital that we we continue to provide that forum for you um to do that, and we're certainly committed to do so.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_03: Um what it could be easy, we all talk and we hear a lot about various technologies.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_03: Um obviously AI is is front and centre at the moment, agentic AI.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_03: It could be easy to lose sight of the fact that we're gonna need to get our people on board with some of these uh innovations in order to get them to work.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_03: What's your um thoughts on the most effective way to drive employee engagement and what works across IHE group and what you've seen throughout your careers?
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_04: When we look at a lot of the projects in that we we're very keen on having you know subject matter experts that come into those projects.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_04: So if we're working with Whaling or with British Airways Iberia in that, you would be looking at having a group that is across the business, um, not just necessarily project managers or or project experts, but actually operational experts as well, so that you can get that element of operational knowledge and sharing as you develop not only the project itself, but even from the beginning, when you look at the scope and and what you're looking to achieve and understanding what the KPIs are for that project, by having people in there that are invested in what they do today in seeing that technology, you're far more likely to be able to start seeing an output at the end of it, whereby you know those people will go on that journey with you, and they will also be able to share information back and start to cross-pollinate with others about what what the future may hold and what sort of things we're involved in.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_04: So, again, you know, that that's very keen.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_04: We're very very vocal in the way that we'll use media as well to share what we're actually doing, because we want other people to come to us and say, Oh, that's that's an interesting uh concept, we hadn't thought of that, or you know, this is something that we're looking at as well.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_04: And innovation has a beauty, is that it sits above the commercial levels uh at that innovation level.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_04: So whilst you're you're digging into what is the art of the possible, um, it takes away where you have to worry about that commercial sensitivity that could be within contracts and costings, etc.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, when you're talking to other airlines, other airports, and those sort of areas.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_04: So again, that's that opportunity in the innovation innovation niche to be able to really sort of delve into it and and understand each other's problems without going into the commercial aspects of it.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_04: Sure, sure.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you, Keith.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_04: Um, David.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think um, you know, early engagement with the TU is extremely important in these scenarios.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_02: So you can you can get off to a good start with that and um and ensure those conversations are happening you know from the get-go.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's incredibly important.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um, if I if I cast my mind back to when we we rolled out the the trial in T5 for international biometric boarding and the process through the airport, you know, that immediately when you when you bring that to a team, it's a big change and it's it's new technology, it raises concerns, but it also gives you the opportunity to, as Keith was saying, get those those subject matter experts on board because then they then they can become leaders in that in that POC and they they they really can own that, you know, the the changes that you have to make to the operation.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_02: You don't just put the equipment in, you you have to change the way you board an aircraft, you have to change the the way they you know they enroll how does the the the check-in area work, etc.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_02: And then all of a sudden you see a change in the the approach from those people, they start to own that, and then they start to become um, you know, they they they find solutions to the problem that that that you then kind of bring with that technology at the start, you see.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_02: So I feel that it, you know, and I always I always see if you if you do that from the start, engage with the TU and you engage with your subject matter experts, and you you ensure that they're up to date, you know, you don't you don't keep them in the dark.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_02: This is what we're trying to achieve.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_02: These are the KPIs, and and we we understand there's going to be challenges.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_02: Can you can you tell us what we've missed as well?
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we're we're not the masters, we've come with an idea, but we need to learn from those people as well.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I I often find that that that is key.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_02: And then also be open to their feedback because this is a trial.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_02: It could work, it could not work.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_02: And then if it does work, fantastic.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_02: How do we roll this out?
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_02: Tell us how this fits into your operation, and this is what we think you're gonna gain from it, and we can, you know, improve MPS, etc., from this, or if it doesn't work, why?
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_02: And and can you think of other ways around this?
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_02: I think it you become a team.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, so you I mean it's almost sounds like it.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_03: You you almost have to be quite humble in your approach, and you're not telling them how it's gonna work, you're actually listening and empowering the other things that are.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_03: That's so important.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_02: So important.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_02: I always cast my mind back to how I felt through my career, you know, got in different roles.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_02: And if you're just delivered uh, this is the change, your brain is thinking, well, what does that mean for me?
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_02: What does that mean for the customer?
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_02: Is it gonna work?
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_02: Have they thought of this?
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_02: Try and dispel those those things at the early stage, I think is key.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_04: I think um, yeah, just picking up on one of the things with the uh what I regard is the human factors within.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_04: Um there there was a couple of trials that I've I've sort of been in contact with where we collaborate.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_04: Um one out in Um fortowns a crew, another one out in uh uh Japan with A.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_04: And it's where they brought in autonomous vehicles and they're trialing those.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_04: And and both of them had the feedback about the reaction from individuals from the staff.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_04: And uh well, quite sort of funny, but um autonomous vehicles going around and having uh members of staff actually having an argument with an autonomous vehicle, um, and you know, stopping it in its tracks to discuss whether or not it should be there or when there's nobody in the vehicle.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_04: And yeah, they've also had the similar sort of things out in Japan, where it's that interaction with the human being and the autonomous vehicle robotics and that.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_04: And that's an area that that I think we we really have to think of how we we move from that world where autonomous vehicles are new to people, yeah, and uh how do you get get the people engaged in that?
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_04: And I still think that there's more that we need to do together to get that uh transition uh happening as we go forward because uh you know the future could be everything is virtually autonomous, and if that's the case, how do how do the humans engage it?
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_04: How do they cross over to go in different places and that you know and and that is a key element of success is the human and how do you see it?
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_04: I think it's perfectly achievable.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_04: I think what you have to do is is build it into it.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_04: You know, how do you you know if if a vehicle, you know, somebody wants to ask a question about that, then is there a way for that vehicle to actually resolve that?
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_04: You know, could it have a two-way communication with the control sector?
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_04: Can it be that there's more information on the outside of that uh vehicle?
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_04: Is there more information training that we need to give to staff about the use of vehicles in those areas?
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_04: So I think it's really it's about building that into your project plans to understand that let's let's get that feedback from not only about does this work, but what does it mean to your day?
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_04: What does it how does it affect you?
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_04: What does it stop you doing or allow you to do?
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_04: And and really building in that human factors element uh to the trials.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_03: Make sure you register today to join us at Apex Future Travel Experience EMEA 2026 on the 9th to the 11th of June in Dublin.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_03: This is the event that is a definitive gathering for airlines, airports, and technology leaders who want to drive digital transformation, customer experience, and operational innovation at scale.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_03: The event is co-located with FTE Ancillary and Retailer, where we bring together airports, airlines, retailers, and technology partners to unlock next generation revenue opportunities at scale.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_03: Sign up, go to future travelexperience.com, or you can email me, max at future travelexperience.com for more information.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_03: If you want to discover great content, outstanding creativity, and strong collaboration amongst your peers, then make a date for Dublin this June.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_03: I'll see you there.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_03: Um along those lines, I think uh you guys are all present, but uh our most recent Innovation Hub and um baggage innovation working group meeting just around the corner at Heathrow.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_03: We had a uh a humanoid uh on show in the display area, and we had a presentation on its application as a kind of custom service uh agent, very clever piece of uh robotics.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_03: Can you talk to me about how you guys are looking at that kind of humanoid area and what you see as some of the uh attractions and applications for humanoids in aviation?
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna pass over to Half basically because I think that's the best place to go with so I mean you know um humanoids could could offer you know um you know real opportunities for for airlines and airports.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, so you know it you know, in terms of manual handling, you know, um Keith mentioned baggage baggage earlier.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you we have all this existing infrastructure at airports that is designed for human human people to work within.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: So adapting it for automated baggage build is expensive and difficult if you've got to put static robotic arms in.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that will be challenging in sort of in a uh brownfield size.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe in greenfield, new builds, you know, you can see uh opportunities there.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: So humanoids offer this this opportunity where potentially humanoids, if they're capable and productive, could go into existing facilities and be and and you know, do baggage load, cargo build, etc.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: So at a high level, you think that so we've been we've been looking at them with um we have a researcher in our team who's looked at the the landscape of humanoid robotics, and that there's a huge amount of investment, especially in China and and the US, going into um the development of humanoids.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_01: And we've looked at some early prototypes of you know, we've been exploring and testing various humanoid robotics, but suffice to say we've come out of it and said, well, actually, the it's a really hard challenge.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: So when you you can go online and you can look at humanoids and you can see some fantastic things from Boston Dynamics through to Tesla through to you know the Olympic Games being a video online that came out recently, where you can see some really fluid um dynamic um you know examples of what humanoids could possibly do.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_01: But when you boil down to it, a lot of that is either teleoperated or it's pre-programmed, or um, it's you know, when you actually drive down to and you put this this humanoid robotic into a facility and it can work out where it is and it can go and pick up a random bag from a variable position and being able to stack it or the same with the cargo or something else, it's really hard.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: And there's still a lot of development to be done.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, secondly, you know, being able to pick up 20, 30 kilos of weight and lean over and position it, you know, and lift it at a distance, there's still some hardware development.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm sure those things will come, but as we stand here today, I can't put my hand on my heart and say no, we can we can implement this or we can put make something productive.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: So there's still some hard technology challenges to be overcome, whether that's in the hardware in terms of lifting capacity and load capacity, and and then also from the software point of view, and the development of that is is there's still a lot of work to be done.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: But we're all sitting here looking at AI, whether it's a genetic AI or AI development, you know, the pace of that change within software is astonishing at the moment.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: And and you know, so we're sort of sitting there thinking, well, you can't do it now, but is it is it is it half a year away?
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: Is it a year away?
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't think anybody really really knows at this stage.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: So some someone will crack it, but so it's our job to keep our sort of finger on the pulse, making sure we know what's going on.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and I think you know, from our recent exploration, I think you know, no, we we can't put um a humanoid development into a productive, you know, trial test at the moment.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's not capable.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: But will we be able to do it in six months?
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: Will we be able to do it in 12 months?
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and that's that's part of the reason why our team is around that we need to make sure that we're we're scanning that horizon, making sure we know what's what things are capable of.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_03: Interesting comments, Javi.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_03: And just reflecting back on what you said a little bit earlier, as an industry, you mentioned we're kind of maybe you know working in a kind of 1980s, 1990s mindset days of VHS and cassette tapes.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, here we are talking about maybe humanoids being right on the cusp of being implemented um at airport.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_03: So, I mean, how are we going to be ready for that, do you think?
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, uh that that's you know, uh, I think as an industry, we we need to drive that message, which is why, you know, working with FTE, working with IATA, ACI, other forums, we we need our industry to all of us across all the different stakeholder groups, whether it's ground handlers, airports, government, you know, things like digital identity and biometrics on the passenger side.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_01: We'd love to see that happen, but it hasn't again chat there are challenges that need to be overcome.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why we are working with the industry to to be vocal, um, demonstrate, show how it could be done, uh, and then deploy and pilot things where we can can do things.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, it's it's you know, it's we're not just do trying to do this at IEG level or an airline level, we've got to be working at an industry level.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_03: So much focus and attention um across the industry is on sustainability and the sustainability agenda at the moment.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_03: Can you um tell me a little bit more about how that features within your work on innovation?
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm I'm not I'm not a sustainability expert.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_01: We have a really good team uh in NIG and within the opcos, you know, they're some of the leading industry experts.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um so you know, within our realm as as airports, so our team looks at airport innovation, um, you know, the the real difference we can make at um uh around sustainability is is on on the ground.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_01: So specifically, you know, we have issues at Heathrow where it's an extremely congested airport that's running at near capacity.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and we suffer a number of times when aircraft are held and their idling engines are burning fuel whilst we're trying to get them.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: So we're looking at technology that will help aircraft get onto stand quicker and be able to shut down their engines sooner without you know incurring those, you know.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: So there's many things we can do on the ground to help drive efficiency and help sustainability.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_01: But in terms of you know broad industry, you know, IEG is probably one of the leading um groups with within our industry that are driving forward on SAF, whether we're taking you know venture stakes within um uh SAF production companies and startups, helping drive regulation change to to you know working uh again with governments to encourage the production of SAF.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, SAF will be a you know a big part of the solution for getting towards net zero for for not just us but the whole industry.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, uh the the team within IEG are really you know uh are still committed and driving towards that and meeting our targets.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you, Harvey.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_03: Which I'll ask you all this one, which of the um the numerous technologies that you're trialing and are on the horizon for us um as a as a civilization, I guess.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_03: Um are you most excited about or gives you the biggest buzz and why?
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_02: Can I go in on that one?
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, some something that um we we uh discovered last year is called agent UI, built by a company called DreamX, and it's it's the ability to you know do all check-in functions from a device, you know, from from uh an iPad, for example.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_02: So what uh the reason I'm so excited about this is you know, we we uh we know that the biometric technology works.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_02: Uh we we know that we can we can do a seamless journey through the airports, we know that we're gonna be uh getting digital identity and wallets, etc.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's it's all there, but regulations, et cetera, are always blocking us.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_02: But one of the the biggest blockers uh is always this airport readiness percentage, you know, is uh is airport readiness ever going to get to 100% so people can then just flow through that airport?
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_02: And then I think so so with the use of this uh agent UI technology, it it gives us the opportunity to really reshape that that check-in environment and then just have people there with that technology to sweep up those ones that need that care.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_02: So therefore, you uh you know you you reduce all the arduous admin, etc., you know, the the frustrated customers queuing when they actually don't need to.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um and what that technology is then driving us to do is actually focus on how we increase that airport readiness percentage.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_02: And then that then for me starts to then really show the real value of biometrics and that whole journey through the airport.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_02: And then I see that as a way to then resolve who's going to invest in this technology because then we can improve ROI, MPS, benefits, etc.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I can really see that then unlocking that that whole thing to get us to that airport of the future.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_04: For me, it's um it's around the unknown, is what excites me because I see when we look at a the turnaround operation of an aircraft, uh the various activities that are very manual uh requirements, which uh we'll start to think about the autonomous opportunities.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, we've already been working on autonomous flight detection, so we've got a solution for that that we're incorporating within a smart stand to to bring an aircraft into the um onto the stand without having to be slowed down, as Harvey said about those offstand holes.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_04: So that's getting it onto the stand, and then there's other activities like the autonomous jet bridge that we're now starting to see, and we've trialed with that, and and that technology is there, so we can attach a jet bridge to the aircraft.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_04: Um I've seen through SmartRamp where we've also uh we've we've seen uh colleagues in uh Holland developing a um a fixing device for ground power so robotically you can attach ground power to the aircraft.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_04: So there's other bits and pieces there.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_04: There's the the chocks and colours, how do we do that autonomously?
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_04: How do we do the aircraft examination autonomously?
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_04: How do we open the hold to the aircraft autonomously?
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_04: So you know there's various next steps to me, and that's the thing that gets me excited.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_04: And I think about when I get up to say, okay, how can we how can we find that solution?
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_04: You know, where is it outside?
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_04: And you know, this is we we talk about humanoids or there's quadrupeds as well.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_04: It's quite a stable platform.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_04: If we've got robots that are able to do fodd clearance, then maybe we can start adapting that to be able to do some of these other tasks as well.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_04: So to me, it's about those future opportunities, those real sort of um you know new ideas to be able to solve.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_04: And that that for me is is the most exciting part.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you, Keith.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_03: Um Harvey, for you.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I mean, I was sitting here thinking about what it is, and I've come to the conclusion it all it all excites me.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_01: There is so so much opportunity, whether it's below the wing in terms of the the different areas, whether it's baggage or ramp or or logistics in autonomous vehicles, and then again above the wing, with um like David was saying, you know, how how do we get passengers um you know ready to fly before they get to the airport?
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_01: So when they get to the airport, have we got the right tools to help them get through the airport?
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, see, you know, seamlessly and contentlessly and efficiently, you know, it's all of those things.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_01: Additionally, you know, aircraft are now going to be connected gate to gate with you know broadband connectivity.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, with IG, we've we've done this the deal with Starlink, and now aircraft are going to be enabled, and that presents so many more opportunities in terms of passengers being able to um you know be connected and you know, in times of disruption, they'll be able to self-serve and you know choose better options if their journey is disrupted whilst they're in flight rather than having to wait and come to the airport.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_01: So it's all of these things, and we you know, with with London, you know, with the potential of a third runway and a sixth terminal, you know, now now is the time that we need to be looking at all of these opportunities uh and proving them such that you know we can take advantage of them when we do build term, whether it's a new terminal or we need to expand, you know, you know, service more customers through the existing infrastructure.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_01: So I you know, I I you know sometimes I think I've got the best job in the world because I'm playing with all of these these um new technologies and driving to change.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_01: It can be frustrating that we don't move quick enough, um, but actually, you know, show slowly and surely we are ticking these things off and getting them across the line um to help improve proof that the whole whether it's for the customer or for their colleagues.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I think it's it's all great fun.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we're very lucky to be able to operate in this space.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_03: Indeed.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_03: Um just as some final thought, really, for someone who's perhaps listening in and um they've had the talk about autonomous vehicles, humanoids, quadrupeds, and everything else in between, but just thinking, oh my god, there's so much.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_03: How do I get a grasp and handle on this?
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_03: Um I'm feeling overwhelmed.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_03: What would your advice be to that that peer in the industry to sort of um what they need to be doing to kind of keeping up, but you know, without feeling that, as I say, they're subsumed by all the various technologies that are coming through?
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_03: Harvey.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_01: I think you know, I we're we're all busy, um, we none of us have really got enough time, but we do you do have to be relatively ruthless with yourself to make time to look at these new technologies and explore them.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, whether, you know, if you can carve out five, ten percent of your time to to get yourself O fe with agentic AI or um some of the you know copilot type tools and how you might apply them to your day-to-day life and become familiar with them.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um you know, in terms of people, you know, potentially seeing that you know you you know certain roles are being automated, I think you know all of us have the challenge that you know we need to think about these technologies and everything is being elevated.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so whether it's children in school and how they're taught, you know, and the you know, my kids are all using you know chat GPT to answer homework questions, you know, schools, education need to find a way of imparting knowledge to children and not let them just rely on tools in the same way it doesn't work.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_01: We need to find a way that you know we need people with experience and knowledge and capabilities to be able to use these new tools to make us you know more effective.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know, then it not you know quite often is the case that we we we don't have enough people now.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of these new technologies will be deployed to be augment the people, make the people amplify the people, make them more efficient, make them capable of doing more.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, the onus I think is on all of us to to make time to make sure that you know we're we have the knowledge, we have the experience, we have the understanding of how to best use these tools.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and we've got to do it as a you know, and the onus is on the company to make sure we bring our people people with us as well, um, you know, and have that capability.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it's it's a really you know critical time in in history, I think, you know, that uh things are changing so rapidly um that uh all of us, whether it's a company and management or whether the individual, we need we need to invest time to make sure we understand what's going on.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, indeed.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you, Robert.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_03: Um Keith and David, anything else to add on?
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_04: Oh I'd just say that you know the challenge I'd push back is for people to ask questions and and to to look into it themselves and and and naturally sort of reach out to to those involved and also share what you know because I think you know our experts are out there doing it every day.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_04: And you know, I'd encourage them to just come forward and and speak, and it's always a you know an available opportunity to reach out.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_04: You know, we try and publicize what we're doing as much as we can, um and and yeah, literally is is to share what you know.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_03: Indeed, yeah, it it takes a village, as I say, and yeah, I think I'm doing um David, anything you want to say on that?
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, I mean both Keith and Javi have spoke really well on this, but I I think just be completely open to it.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_02: And if I speak from my personal experience, you know, coming from a very operational performance management background to being launched into delivering POC biometrics in T5.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_02: I had many, many conversations on these meetings and I didn't understand a majority of what was going on.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_02: So you make notes, you Google, you you throw yourself into that environment and and I think you know, be interested in it because it's happening.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um and if that's starting with chat GPT and using it.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: To design a new garden, or can you get your washing machine out of this angle or something?
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_02: You know, there's it's a tool, and how we use it is is you know, we we learn through those problems and and and how we use it.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's the same here is you know, if you're working in a certain department and there's technology coming that way, upskill yourself, you know, follow things like FTE and read, read what what's out there, what are the other airlines doing, because ultimately then you know, we we get our ideas from going to expeditions and reading these documents, and then obviously what comes through the accelerator.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_02: So it's almost put on a plate for us.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but there's been times where I've had to really go out and just find it.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_02: And even if that's um half an hour in my diary on a Friday morning, just just to just to know what's going on out there, set alerts, I think it really, really helps.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I think Harvey made a good point on it's also our in it's our um job to make sure that it's it's shared adequately.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_02: And then and then we we we drive that that interest because because it is it's a it's coming, it's big, it's always going to change.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, I think with the whole AI, a lot of people will say it's a buzzword, but it's it's there.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_02: Everybody's basing their searches for technology on AI.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_02: And if we go back to looking at that that turnaround, what we were talking about at the very start of this this talk, um, the technology is excellent, the data is excellent, but what that ultimately needs to do is drive a change in how we all collaborate and and manage what we're doing with that data as well.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm I think that is also what I'm very excited about is how is this going to shape the way people approach their jobs and the way we all work together in the industry as well.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's it's very exciting.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_03: I definitely, um, and uh I very much know your pain two months into this new job at FTE and not knowing a huge amount about agentecai before.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_03: I think you're right.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_03: Ask the question about well, what is that and why is it important?
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_03: Um, is really crucial to sort of getting yourself up to speed.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_03: Um, guys, thank you.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_03: Just want to say thank you very much to Harvey, to Keith, to David for your time today and a very enlightening chat.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_03: We are looking forward to following um what the this innovation brings over the coming months and years at FTE Communities Groups and at our events.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_03: Um wish you well with it and look forward to following your journey.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you all very much.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you, Max.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks, Max.