Latest / The Daily Writer / Shelley Breen (Point of Grace) on Music, Songwriting & Creative Habits

Transcript

Shelley Breen (Point of Grace) on Music, Songwriting & Creative Habits · The Daily Writer

• 0:06
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to the Daily Rider Podcast, where we bring you tips and inspiration each day to help you build habits for writing success.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_02: For more resources, including your free Daily Rider starter kit, visit DailyRiderLife.com.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_02: I speak to a pretty wide variety of writers and creatives on this podcast, and today I'm thrilled to bring you this conversation with one of the members of the highly successful Christian music vocal group, Point of Grace.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_02: Shelly Breen is a founding member of Point of Grace, and for over 30 years, the group has been touring, songwriting, and recording, encouraging countless people of faith with their music all over the world.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_02: Let me share with you a few items to help give you a grasp of Point of Grace's success.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_02: With total sales in excess of 8 million units, the group has garnered two Platinum Records, three Grammy nominations, 27 number one singles, and numerous Dove Awards.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_02: Inducted into the Oklahoma Music Hall of Fame in 2018, Point of Grace has released ten best-selling studio recordings, four Christmas albums, and such Christian radio standards as I'll Be Believing, Keep the Candle Burning, How You Live, Turn Up the Music, Circle of Friends, and Jesus Will Still Be There.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_02: The group founded the groundbreaking Girls of Grace Conference.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_02: They appear regularly on the historic Grand Ole Opera Stage, and they have authored multiple books, including their latest one, titled How You Live: Lessons Learned from Point of Grace.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_02: So in today's conversation, Shelly shares some behind-the-scenes details about their new album, Turn Your Eyes, Songs We Love, Songs You Know.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_02: And she also talks about her creative habits, how the group chooses songs, how their newest book came together, and several of their upcoming concert appearances that you don't want to miss.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_02: This was a wide-ranging conversation, which honestly is my favorite type of conversations, because I love talking to creative types, no matter what kind of writing or art they create.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I really hope this inspires you to make Point of Grace's music a regular part of your listening.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_02: I also want to give a massive shout out to the amazing Cindy Morgan, a successful author and recording artist herself.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_02: She was a guest two or three months ago here on the show, and she was talking about her new novel called Year of Jubilee.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_02: She produced Point of Grace's new album, and she also made the intro to Dana Cappolino who set up the interview with Shelly.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_02: So many thanks to Cindy and also Dana as well.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_02: You can learn more about Point of Grace at Pointofgrace.net, and you can follow the group on social media at Facebook and Instagram, and there will be links to both of those in the show notes.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_02: This again was a really, really fun conversation.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_02: And particularly if you love music or if you're a musician yourself, you're really, really going to enjoy this.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_02: So here's my conversation with the incredible Shelly Breen of Point of Grace.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_02: Shelly, welcome to the Daily Rider Podcast.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_02: It is a huge honor to have you here.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_02: I've been listening to your music and Point of Grace's music specifically for years and years.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_02: This is the first time we've connected.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_02: So thanks for making time to do this.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: I know it's most people uh do an interview with or something, usually I'm like, oh, we've met before, but I don't think that we have.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_02: No, we haven't met before.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_02: We haven't.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: We're both so old, we should have met before.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you know, age is relative.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: I just told my dad he just turned 76, and I'm like, yeah, it's a new 56, you know.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it kind of is, you know.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_02: I figure, hey, if we have a president who's like, I don't know if he's 80 or pushing anything close to it, but then you know, if we think we're all good.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, if we have people like Betty White who are acting into their 90s and Clint Eastwood, I think we're okay.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_02: I think we're good.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_02: We're like half their age, you know.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I agree.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: I agree.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_02: I do want to give a big shout out to Cindy Morgan, who I just connected with a few months ago.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, great.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_02: And when I interviewed her, I did not know that she produced your newest album.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I thought that was really cool.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_02: That's amazing.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: All while while she was finishing the final, you know, editing of her own book, and she had so much going on.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: It was so so sweet to make time for us.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: And she did a great job.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: She's a great vocal arranger.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so um, I told her I was like, there, you don't have the ability to do anything that's not cool.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: She just doesn't.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: She's just one of those women who has aged into her coolness, and we're like, we're old, you know, dorks now, but you're cool.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_02: And her book is like legit good.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_02: So I interview authors all the time on the show.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_02: I know a lot of authors, and you know how it is, and I'm sure that's this way in the music world where you have a friend who releases something, and you know, it's good, but it's not like really, really great.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_02: But you're you're trying to be kind of a cheerleader for them.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_02: But in this case, it was absolutely true.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_02: It's a phenomenal novel.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: It really is.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: I she's such a good writer, and I mean, I could just see everything in the book, and I love you know, just she she really paints the pictures really well.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_02: Well, we are definitely here to talk about all things point of grace, and there's a lot of things to talk about.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_02: You've been doing music for for quite a while and have a lot of albums out.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_02: I wish we had time to dig into all that because there's hours and hours and hours of story and yes, uh wisdom and inspiration there.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_02: But um, I'd love to start out by asking about this new album called Turn Your Eyes Songs We Love, Songs You Know, produced, of course, by Cindy Morgan.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_02: I'm really curious about the idea behind this, and I assume this is a series of albums that you have.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_02: This is the second in this series.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, this is the second volume.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know that we'll do another one.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, we kind of got on the volume bandwagon for a minute there.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_02: It's awesome though.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, thank you.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_02: It's really, really cool.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_02: So, what about this album?
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_02: Would you say is different than some of your previous albums?
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: Well, this album is one that is not all original music.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, we we co-wrote one of the songs on the album, and I believe that's the only one that is not a song that's, you know, been out there for a while.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: And kind of the emphasis is in this, there's so much good music out there.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: And there's so many hymns that I think are kind of getting pushed by the wayside in a lot of our modern worship services that churches are doing, that you know, hymns that I grew up on, um, and just ones that we want to preserve in our own, you know, not that we can preserve it for the ages, we're not big enough to do that, but for our the people that listen to us and our children as well, just to put those down somewhere.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like these are great songs that do not need to be forgotten.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so songs like Turn Your Eyes Upon Jesus, It Is Well with My Soul, you know, a couple more decades go by, and are people even going to know those songs?
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: And what a tragedy that would be if they didn't, you know?
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so um, that was kind of the catalyst for the record is just trying to document through music some of our some of what we think is really great, which you know, some of those hymns, and then also some of the modern worship.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um Rich Mullins, it was just the 25th anniversary of his death, and um, he was so impactual in Christian music.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: So we, you know, recorded one of his songs.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, my daughter's 20 years old and had probably never heard the song Awesome God until we put it on our record, you know.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: So it's just I think that was kind of the the thrust for us to want to do something like this before we do another album of all original songs.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_02: Now, correct me if I'm wrong, and I've only listened to this your version of Awesome God a couple times.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_02: But is the chord progression different than what we're telling?
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_02: It's like something really different.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, that's really cool.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_02: I've never heard well.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: So my husband is a Rich Mullins purist, and he was like, I don't, I don't like this when we when he first do it.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: He was like, The chord, the chord um in the second half of the chorus is a little bit different, um, right, right.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that was all Cindy's brainchild.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: Now it almost seems weird to me to sing it the other way, you know.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, that was one of her.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: I would have never taken the liberty to do that on my own, nor could I have even thought of it, probably musically.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: But Cindy, she's just she's very delicate and respectful with the way that she sort of changes things.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so she did um make a few chord changes in that.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you're right.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: Good ear, good ear.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I was a music pastor for a long time.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_02: I taught music at the at at a ministry college for many, many years.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm kind of a geek for all this behind the scenes music and production stuff.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it's like from heaven above, it kind of goes a little finery instead of heaven above.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's it's a little good ear, good ear.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_02: I was really excited to to see you guys cover West King's, I believe.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_02: One of my favorite songs of all time.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_02: What a what an incredible song.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_02: How did you how did that wind up on the album?
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: So that one, we are definitely of the ilk and of the thinking that um the Bible is God's inspired word.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's all true, it's infallible.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I know a lot of people don't feel that way, and people can kind of go like this about that, but that that's important to us and just sort of our true north, one of our true norths and things that you know we want to pass on to our own kids.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so that song just really um spells it, spells out that um in a great way, and kind of a fun way too, you know, and that God is the one that that gives us the power and opens our eyes to to believe his word.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: And that's kind of what the song says.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: And it's kind of saying, I believe every bit of it.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: Do I believe there was an ark and it was made of wood and it was, you know, 120 years, like yes, we believe all that.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: We believe in Adam and Eve and the tree and the garden, and you know, and some people will say, Oh, that's a metaphor, that's this or that, but that's not really how we feel.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: And so, um, sometimes you can put something in a song and it makes it a lot less divisive, I think.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's so true.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_02: It's so true.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_02: I want to give a huge thank you to today's sponsor, Vellum.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you've probably heard me talk about Vellum before here on the podcast.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_02: If you've been listening for a while, they're one of our sponsors, and I always have a spot for Vellum on a weekly basis.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_02: And every time I do this spot, really I have this.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_02: I know this is gonna sound a little cheesy, but you know, I'm almost 50 years old, so I've kind of moved beyond the point in my life where I'm concerned about being cheesy.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_02: I would just rather be honest and be truthful and and um and plug the things that I really enjoy and that are really helpful in my life.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_02: So having a conversation with a friend of mine, just uh literally just yesterday.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm recording this on a Friday, and literally yesterday I was using actually the Voxer app to send some messages back and forth to another writer friend of mine, and he was asking me about Vellum.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_02: And he asked me a very, very simple question about it, and the message I sent back to him was like three or four minutes long because I just kept going on and on and on about why I love Vellum and how great it is and how I use it for my own stuff, but also I use it to sometimes do samples of uh sample chapters of client books when I'm sort of courting a client or if I have a prospective client or if I have a new client.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_02: I will oftentimes take samples of their their stuff or stuff that I've written, maybe a portion of a book, and I'll send it to them because Vellum gives you such an impressive result as far as the book layout.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's just absolutely incredible.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I use that in my ghostwriting business because I want to impress people and I want them to see a mock-up of what their completed book is eventually going to look like, and Vellum allows me to do that.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_02: So when I talk about Vellum here on the show, I'm talking about it not just from the perspective of, hey, I use this for my own books, and which is great, by the way, but I'm also telling you that Vellum is a critical part of my ghostwriting business, and I support my family with my ghostwriting business.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_02: Now, I also have my own books and the Daily Rider Club and the podcast and all that stuff, but ghostwriting is kind of my bread and butter, if you get what I'm saying.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_02: So Vellum is a critical part of that workflow, and I'd really, really truly love the Vellum app.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_02: I'm use it, I use it several times a week, I'm in it all the time, and they make formatting your books so easy and so much fun.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_02: I honestly cannot imagine running my business without it.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_02: So, all that is to say, if you're looking for a great tool to help you format your books, you want to do it quick and easy, and you want them to look phenomenal, and you happen to be a Mac user, then Vellum is going to be your go-to choice for that hands down.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_02: Not only have the Vellum people made a great product, they're also really phenomenal guys who run the company.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_02: They used to work for Pixar, by the way, so if that tells you anything, uh that should tell you they have very high standards and they're really creative and really awesome.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_02: So with that said, I hope that you give Vellum a try.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_02: You can do it by going to trivellum.com slash daily.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_02: That's D-A-I-L-Y.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_02: Trivellum.com slash daily.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_02: Truly, it is one of the key parts of my business.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_02: I love those guys and I love the product.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_02: It's really, really fantastic.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_02: So I hope that you try it out.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_02: Also, you can download it and you can use the app.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_02: You can use every feature on it, and the only time that you have to pay for it is when you actually go to generate your files for upload.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_02: So you can play with it to your heart's content.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's really cool of them to do that.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_02: So there's there's not like a timeline on it, like a 30-day or 14-day trial.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_02: You can use it however long you want, and you only got to pay for it when you're ready to generate those files, which is pretty cool of those guys, I gotta say.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_02: So give Vellum a shot.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_02: Go to tryvellum.com slash daily, and I think that you'll really, really enjoy it.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_02: And if you do that, I'd love to hear about it and what your experience is.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_02: All right, with that said, back to my conversation with the amazing Shelly Breen.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_02: What would you say the the role of when when you're creating when you're crafting these albums and you're selecting songs that other people have written, whether it's hymns or uh, you know, CCM songs that have been around a while, or when you have an album of all new music, what is what is the role in your life of the writing and creative process?
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_02: Because I know when you do a point of grace album, it's not necessarily just all songs that three of you write.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_02: No, you have songs that other people write as well.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_02: So, how does that process for you personally?
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, where does that creativity come into the whole process?
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, for us, we have always been, I think we're sort of like the everyday common man's artist in a way.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll explain what I mean by that.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: Most artists, especially now, not as much when we first started um singing with Point of Grace, but as the years have gone by, it's gotten more and more that artist, they they write their own music.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's part of what makes them an artist.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's part of what, and when we came along, you know, we weren't writers, we were just out there doing these shows and connecting with people, and we kind of have that part of it, you know, not I mean, you never have it fully figured out, but you know what I mean.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: Kind of have that part of it down.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but the writing thing was really foreign to us, and um, there's so many amazing writers in Nashville.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: And so when a group comes along that takes accepts outside material, it's a huge deal for writers.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so we were we were like the writers' darlings, like we would get the best of the best, songs like The Great Divide and Jesus Will Still Be There, all these songs that have are still standing the test of time.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: The reason we got those songs is because we were willing to accept outside material and wanted it and appreciated it and loved it, you know, and that's kind of still where we are.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so, kind of part of our creative process in that is sculpting the whole album with songs that fit together and make sense.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we will sit in a room and one of our things from the very beginning is it's gotta be unanimous.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: If one person is like, I just do not like this song, I'm not connecting with it or whatever, we just we would just pitch it out, which what that did was um now there were some bargains struck.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: I can imagine.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: But for the most part, it was, you know, it's it's gotta be a unanimous decision.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: And what that does is I think it it just ensures that they're even better than they would have been, you know, because they're more universal.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: So um, so that's kind of how we do it, and then just shaping the album that way is our creative process comes more in that part of it because when we're listening to songs and picking songs, we're just picking them like the average Joe listener would like them to.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: Meaning we're listening to a song, and I literally imagine myself driving down when a song when a song comes on for the first time, a demo that we're hearing that that's you know, buying for a spot on the album.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'll literally imagine myself in my car, turning on the radio and like, oh, I've had a time of a bad day.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: And then I'm listening to the song in that mindset.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I can go, is this gonna minister to the average Joe or Jane that's driving down the road, just dealing with life and stuff?
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: And this song comes on, is it gonna is it gonna do anything for them?
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: Or is it just gonna be a fluff piece?
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's how I listen.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: That's how we that's how we all kind of that's the sieve that the songs go through.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_02: How how does a when you're working on an album, how does a theme for the album emerge?
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_02: Does it do you start an album project with kind of an overall idea or a theme and then you look for songs that fit that?
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_02: Or does it just emerge organically?
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: Kind of emerges for us.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, a lot of that was always one of the artists' beef, I mean, not artist beef, one of the writers' beefs with us.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: They were like, Well, what do you want the theme to be?
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: What do you want the, you know, and we're like, I mean, we don't know, we just want great songs, you know?
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: And when it hits us and, you know, it kind of you know, gut punches us, we go, okay, yeah, ooh, that one really moved me for whatever reason.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so, um, yeah, I think it most of the time it just kind of emerges, you know, or it kind of all hinges on this one song that kind of brings things together, you know.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: That makes sense.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: That makes sense.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: For the new record, um that one is more, you know, like I said earlier, songs that that we we truly personal I mean, all of our records are to some extent, but to to a large extent, you know, just things that we personally believe in and believe are true.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: But these are even more like this is our stake in the ground, these are these old hymns that need to be heard by the next generation, you know, that kind of thing.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um but the song that really I think ties the whole thing together um is a song that we wrote called At the Table.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: And that one to me um is just something that we've been feeling a lot over the last few years.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just that um the the divisiveness in our world, it can just start to get you down after a while.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: You're like, I know that we have more in common than everybody wants us to think that we do, you know?
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so this song says that there is a way that that we can all sit at the proverbial table and enjoy a proverbial meal together and talk and fellowship and most importantly, love one another without agreeing on everything.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: And and you don't have to sacrifice your own conscience or convictions to love somebody who isn't living the way that you would subscribe to, right, you know, right um, and that you can love that person and be non-judgmental.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm not saying if they say, hey, what do you think about this or this, don't tell them the truth because you're you know, don't want to offend them.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: No, that's not what we do, but there has to be a mutual respect and kindness, you know, um, in in our relationships with people.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: And um I don't know where that got lost along the way, but it sure did.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: See Siri just on my watch said she didn't get it either.
• 20:05
  unknown: Yeah.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_02: Do you remember the time back back back in the day when you felt like you could sit down and have a civil conversation with somebody, even though you didn't you maybe you disagreed on major things, but you could sit down and have a conversation.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_02: It seems like we've kind of moved past that.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, or just the the real the kind of you know, what was it in the old, you know, and back in the day, my parents would say, Oh, you don't discuss religion or politics at a dinner party, you know what I mean?
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so my point being there were times when it just wouldn't even come up, and now it's like that's all people just want to poke the bear at each other, you know, and it's like just let me live, you know, and and you can live and and we and I can you know live in God's truth and you can you know do your thing and I'm gonna love you and I'm gonna I mean I've obviously evangelism has to have an important role in that, but you have to have a relationship with somebody, you know, before you can talk to them about Jesus and you know, or uh to some extent you do.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, I look at people like Dana's mom, who is our road manager who set this interview up with us, and you know, she'll meet a perfect stranger and she'll evangelize to them.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I that is her gift, and it's it's amazing, you know.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but for me, I think that that respect and that relationship has to be there to some extent, you know.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_02: One of the amazing things that I really appreciate about point of grace is that you're not only incredible musical artists, but you're authors as well.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_02: And that's something I absolutely love it because I'm in the book world.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_02: That's kind of my whole world these days.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I always appreciate it when I see music artists who also publish books.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm curious if you can tell us about the new book that you have out called How You Live Lessons Learned.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: And this is a book that all three of you contributed to and uh really is a such a cool resource.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_02: I'm curious how that book came about and uh what you can tell us about it.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so we're not like Cindy writing like really legit novels, but um it's kind of the I think that the real heart behind it is sort of the same thing behind this record is that we're getting to that age, you know, where we all had our big 50th birthdays a few years ago, and you start to get to that age where you go, I've got, I want to pass down these truths and these stories of God's faithfulness in my life to my kids.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I think as a mom, that's our most important job.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: I tell young mothers all the time that are, you know, on the hamster wheel or trying to keep up with the Joneses, just stop it.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like, don't buy, don't buy into that.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like, make sure your kids know who Jesus is, make sure your kids know the word of God before they leave your house.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: Don't worry about anything else, you know, because if they don't have that, then all the other things are gonna, who cares, you know?
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: And so um this book is just a book of of lessons that we've learned along the way, some things that we did right and some them, some things, mistakes that you know, things that we did wrong, and um just how God has brought us to it and we're where we have seen him at work in that, and just to document those down in a book, and you know, it's been a great resource in our concerts too.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: We'll pick up the book.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: Every concert we do this, and we pick up the book and we actually read straight out of the book, um, and you know, shape some of our songs and stuff um around some of the stories in the book.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's been really neat, and you sell more books after the show when you do that too.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: That's a bonus.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_02: That's a bonus.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_02: Of course, you always gotta have a table of books, yes, and t-shirts and all the other stuff.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so we talk on uh on this show a lot about publishing options and and writing and books and all that kind of stuff.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_02: So when you are when music is the primary thing that you do, how does a project like this come about?
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_02: Does do one of you in the group suggest it?
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_02: Do does a literary agent come to you?
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_02: How did this particular project actually this one?
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's what's kind of happened in all different ways for us, but this one, we had done a little two-off record situation with Lifeway.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: Our deal was up at Word.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: We weren't sure if we were going to resign it.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, subsequently, we have re-signed at Word, but we weren't sure if we were gonna re-sign there.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there have been a lot of changes, and you know, we didn't know if we wanted to do that, and they didn't know if they wanted, you know, it was kind of a mutual like parting for a little bit.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so we took um this just a little sabbatical from Word and did a couple of records with Lifeway, um, a Christmas one and um a worship record, and those were very successful for them.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um and when we got ready to do, so in other words, like if you would go to a Lifeway store, and this is back when there were still Lifeway stores three, four years ago.
• 24:55
  unknown: Right.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe long, maybe longer now, five.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you you would go and and they would have like our Christmas record at the counter.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_01: They'd be like, would you like to add a point of grace Christmas record to your you know, order or whatever?
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: And like, you know, I think we moved 60,000 of those or something, which is crazy.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um anyway, when we got done with those two, we still we loved working with the people at Liberty.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: They're fantastic people, every one of them.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: And so we were like, we just don't know if we have a record, another record in us right now.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: Those just happened so quickly.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: And that's kind of what got us, but we want to work together, so what else can we do?
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so that was kind of the catalyst.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you guys haven't done a devotional book in a while.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: Would you want to do another cookbook?
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what are you thinking about that?
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: And so we were like, oh, okay.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: So that's kind of how it how it works.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_02: Interesting.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I love all those behind the stories.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, but behind the scenes stories, yes, yeah.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_02: So obviously, you guys do concerts, you do a lot of events, and one of the interesting things that you have coming up is this event called Circle of Friends.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, which sounds really, really fun.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_02: And I saw some pictures of that online, obviously from some past events.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_02: I'm curious if you can tell us about that as well as your upcoming Christmas tour with Mark Schultz.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_02: That's happening obviously later this year.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_02: Grand Old Opera appearances.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it doesn't seem like you guys are slowing down at all.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we've we still are pretty busy for like how long we've been around, that's for sure.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, so Circle of Friends is a fan event that we host here in Nashville, and we have one coming up in the fall, the first weekend of October.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: And that is a beautiful time to visit Tennessee.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: Totally.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and we just do our fans come in town for three days, Friday night to Sunday, and we have all different activities and meals and things scheduled for them.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, some examples of the past, like this last one we did.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we had a dinner and a point of grace oldies sing along on Friday night.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: And then Saturday morning, actually, Cindy Morgan came and spoke, and we had donuts and devotions at Denise's house, and that was really fun.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then that night we had an album release party.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: So we try to just play in different activities and then also give them some time on Saturday to explore the city of Nashville and see some of the country music stuff and all of that.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so um it's a really fun time and we keep it, it's super intimate.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: So we limit it.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: We had done one several times and there was like a hundred or more people, and it was too much for us to kind of make the way around and talk to everybody and get to know people, and so now um it's capped at 50, um, between 40 and 50, just kind of depending on how the break out.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: And that is just makes it a lot more doable, you know, for us and and able to spend actual quality time with the people that come.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's really fun.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's cool, and that's such a unique event.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_02: I don't see a lot of people doing things like that.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, a lot of people do them, um, but they're huge.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so okay, okay.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's not as like I think Amy Grant has an event at her farm where she used to in.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's several hundred people, and so I don't think it's as interactive, which is totally there's totally a place for that too.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_01: But that's kind of we didn't want to do that.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: Just felt that felt like a concert to us, kind of.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: So we decided to do it, you know, smaller.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, and then um for a little less commitment would would definitely be if you want to come out and see us on the road.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we're always out and about doing concerts here and there.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and the big tour that we have coming up, that's like a tour tour, would be the Christmas tour, um, Gloria Christmas tour with Mark Schultz.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we did that last year.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: It was great.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: We're just gonna go to all different, you know, markets this year.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: And so those dates are starting to fill up and they're on our calendar too.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: I think tickets are already for sale um with some of them.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: So you can check that out too.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_02: Cool.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_02: And you're going to the grand oil opery as well, correct?
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we actually just did.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um we were just there.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, you were just there.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: Hopefully, hopefully, well, hopefully we're going back.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: That's kind of a repeat invitation that everybody loves to get.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yes, we've done the grandlee many, many times.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: Always love when they call call us to do it, and um had a great time.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: We were just there uh just a few nights ago, and um, you know, getting to sing with their band and stand in the circle and be there at the rhyming.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: And well, actually, this one wasn't at the rhyming.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: They switch up, but um, it started at the rhyme and then they go back there during Christmas usually, but um at the Grendel Opera House is what I meant to say, is where we were.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you know, it's kind of a hallowed stage for music.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so um it's it's pretty cool to be backstage and they're they're very generous with their backstage passes with us.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they always give you like 10 passes, and so we're always fighting.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: The three of us are always fighting for them, like we each get three, and then who gets the tenth one, you know, because we all have friends that want to see backstage and all that stuff.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: So it's pretty fun.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_02: I've never been backstage there.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_02: I've actually only been to the Grand Old Opera a couple times, it's been a long time since I'll have to put you on our list of wannabes.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: I would be honored.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: I would I would love to.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_02: I was there when I was like three years old, yeah.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_02: Many years ago, one of my first memories.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_02: I think I'm thinking that the concert or the event that my parents took me to, that Minnie Pearl was there.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_02: I don't even know.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, probably.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, she was big time at Coppery.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, she I mean, she was big for a long time.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_02: So for some reason, that just is stuck in my head.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_01: For sure.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_01: She that probably wasn't.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_02: That's an actual memory or not, but yeah, yeah.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: It sounds like a real one.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think so.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_02: We'll go with that.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_01: We'll go we'll go with that.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_02: Well, thanks so much.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_02: This has been an absolute blast, Shelly.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's been an honor to connect with you personally.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_02: And um, gosh, I just appreciate your music over the years.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: You're so welcome.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_02: You got it so much to so many people's lives, and it's it's really, really wonderful to see all the cool things that you're continuing to do.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_02: It's really awesome.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: And uh please let our let my people let Dana know um when this comes out, and we'll definitely post it and so people will know about it, our people.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_01: So they'd love to listen in.
• 30:51
  unknown: Yeah.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you again.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_02: It's been a pleasure.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: All right, thanks so much.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: Have a good day.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_02: You too.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_01: Bye, Kent.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Shelly.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_02: Wasn't that fun?
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_02: You know, one of the interesting things that I have found is uh as I've done this podcast, is that I get to talk to a lot of really, really cool people, and it's not really because I'm a cool guy.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you know, just ask my wife.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not the guy who dresses cool all the time.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_02: I make an effort, but uh, you know, I've got a lot to learn in that regard.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_02: But I do have the opportunity on the show to talk to a lot of really cool people.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_02: And one of the perceptions that people have of highly successful individuals like recording artists or New York Times bestselling authors or uh people who have like reached the pinnacle of whatever field they're in, one of the impressions that people have is that they're not nice or they're kind of standoffish or they don't they don't want to talk to kind of the everyday Joe type of a person.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, one of the interesting things that I have found is that it's generally not that way at all.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_02: In fact, as you can tell from not just the people that I have on on this show, but specifically from this conversation with Shelly, um, many times people who are really, really highly successful are the kindest, most thoughtful, most humble, and down-to-earth people.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm sure that's what you heard with this conversation as well.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just I'm so amazed at the success that these ladies have had in Point of Grace.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_02: And specifically, I just really, really enjoyed this conversation with Shelly.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, she could not possibly be a more kind and thoughtful human being.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_02: And Shelly, thanks so much for being a guest on today's show.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks to Cindy Morgan for arranging this conversation, and also to Dana Cappolino, who set up the interview with Shelly and kind of ran logistics.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_02: So I really hope that you guys check out Point of Grace's music.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_02: If you've not heard of Pointe of Grace, number one, what rock have you been living under the past, you know, two or three decades?
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I'm kind of just kidding, but I'm kind of not because they're they've been sort of everywhere.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_02: But number two, uh, check out their music.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_02: It's really, really good stuff.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I also hope that you check out some of their upcoming concert appearances and the other things that Shelly mentioned toward the end there.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_02: They've got a lot of cool stuff going on, and I am kind of in awe of any music group that that has gone on for you know over 30 years.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of music groups, they're together for a while, they break up or they go their separate ways, but they've been going for a long time.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I find that to be not just a testament to uh their longevity as creatives, but I find it to be a testament to their character and for their love for their fans and the people they're serving.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_02: That's a pretty cool accomplishment in my book.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_02: So again, make sure and check out their music.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_02: There's also links in the show notes to connect with Point of Grace on Facebook and Instagram and all those places.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_02: So check it out.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_02: This has been really, really fun.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_02: I hope that you enjoyed this conversation.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_02: And as always, I'll see you next time.