Latest / Beautifully Complex / 356: Teaching Kids to Communicate their Sensory Needs, with Sarah Collins, MSOT, OTR/L

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356: Teaching Kids to Communicate their Sensory Needs, with Sarah Collins, MSOT, OTR/L · Beautifully Complex

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: You can't advocate for yourself when you're not aware. And
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: how many times are we actually telling kids to suppress
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: what it is? You know, it doesn't matter what you
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: need to sit down and because it's we're doing whatever
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: we're reading or we're doing math, and it's time to
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: sit down and went through three eyes on meat, right,
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: So what we need to be doing is giving our
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: kids a language and helping them to understand that internal state.
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: Welcome to Beautifully Complex, where we unpack what it really
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: means to parent neurodivergent kids with dignity and clarity. I'm
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: Penny Williams, and I know firsthand how tough and transformative
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: this journey can be. Let's dive in and discover how
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: to raise regulated, resilient, beautifully complex kids together. Oh and
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: if you want more support, join our free community at
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: hub dot Beautifully complex dot life. Welcome back everyone. I
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: am so excited to have you here. Our parents, teachers,
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: they're caring adults in our neurodiversion kids' lives. Welcome. I'm
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: really happy to have Sarah Collins here with me, who
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: is the founder of homeschool OT and we're going to
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: talk about communicating sensory needs, communicating what's happening, So helping
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: our kids, our teens, be able to tell us what
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: is going on for them sensory wise and what is
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: the need that they have. Sarah, will you start by
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: introducing yourself, let everybody know who you are and what
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: you do, and then we'll jump into some sensory talk.
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: Absolutely. So, my name is Sarah Collins. Like you said,
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: I'm an occupational therapist and a homeschool mom. I have
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: three kids, one who's about to graduate from our homeschool,
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: so she will no longer obviously be homeschooled. I have
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: my middle son who is fifteen, and he actually goes
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: to the Philadelphia Hockey Academy. He's no longer homeschooled and divergent,
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: and a lot of what we're going to talk about
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: today comes from the blending of my background as an
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: occupational therapist my parenting and recognizing what my child needs
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: and how to communicate with him. So a lot of
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: this comes from both of those perspectives, right. And then
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: I have a younger son bringing up the rear who's ten,
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: and he's the last one here in our homeschool. So
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: what I do now as part of homeschool OT is
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: I work with parents across the world on either setting
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: up their homeschool programs if they have kiddos who are neurodivergent,
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: or working with them within their homeschools to really cater
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: to what their children need, how their children learn, how
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: to help them do what they specifically need and want
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: to do. It's different for everybody, and how we get
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: to being quote unquote successful in those tasks is different
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: for everybody. So it's really working on how we can
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: personalize education for our children.
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: MMM. And that's the key, that's absolutely the key. We
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: should be doing this for all kids. We should be
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: teaching the individual, fostering the growth and the journey of
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: figuring out who they are on an individual basis. But
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: that's a whole nother soapbox that absolutely we won't get
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: on in this conversation. But let's start by I think
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: defining what sensory processing is and how different sensory needs
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: might show up for different kids.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: Absolutely so in the world of occupational therapy, you know,
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: there's some really technical definitions, right, and then there's also
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: some of like I just need to know about what
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: is going on with my kid out and different parents
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: come at this differently. You know, there are some that
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: are like, I want to read all the research and
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: I totally understand that, and then there's some that are like,
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: I just really want to help support my child and
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: what they need and want to do, and I'm totally
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: there for them.
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: Both.
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: For the purposes of today, let's talk about, you know,
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: how to support our kids and what they need and
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: want to do. So basically, sensory processing is taking in
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: all the information from around you through our senses. So
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: that includes you know, the big five that everyone knows
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: from elementary school. You know what you see, what you hear,
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: which you touch, what you taste, all of those, right.
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: Then there's also three more senses. There is proprioception, which
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: is taking in information more through your muscles and your
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: joints through the proprioceptors, and it gives us information on
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: how much force to use and where our body is
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: in relationship to itself. So my prime example for this
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: would be, you know, if you're going to the front door,
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: right and you hear a knock at the door, and
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: that's the Amazon guys outside, amazing, Fine, you have two
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: boxes there, and you know you have ordered paper towels,
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: and you have also ordered I don't know, something really heavy.
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: I can't come up to me really heavy. Right now,
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: you've ordered a kettlebell. Yeah, there we go ordered a
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: kettlebell and they come in the same size box. You
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: go to pick one up and you think it's the
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: paper towels, but it's the kettlebell, right, and you go
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: to lift it and you're like ooh, and it's confusing
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: to your body for a second.
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, then you're like, oh, it's the kettlebell.
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: Fine, your body adjusts and you know, go back it
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: to lift it up appropriately, or vice versa. You think
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: it's going to be the kettlebell and it's the paper towels,
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: and you go pick it up and you throw them
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: in the air. Again, your body is confused for a
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: hot second, and then it takes in that information from
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: the muscles, from the joints we call what we call
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: organize it, and then you can be functional in your task.
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: So that's the sense of proprioception, and in general, when
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: you are engaged more with proprioception, it is the most
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: calming sense, meaning it can calm your nervous system. So
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: things like when you did pick up that kettlebell, and
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: then you realized what it was, and then you organize
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: that information. Your body felt calmer. So that's that one, right.
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: So you'll oftentimes hear people say, you know, if you
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: are feeling overwhelmed, do heavy work, right, that makes total sense.
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: Even if you think too, i'd bump my arm. What's
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: the first thing you do?
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: Grab it?
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: You grab it because that sends these calming messages to
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: your brain to help calm down. Another sense is the
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: vestibular sense, and this is your sense of balance. It's
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: in your inner ear and it helps you to know
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: where you are in space. So proprioception is where your
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: body is in relationship to itself. Vestibular is where it
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: is in a relationship to the to the world. You know,
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: am I sitting up straight and my falling down? You
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: know things like that. It is often the most alerting sense.
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: So where proprioception can calm our body, vestibular usually elevates
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: or makes us more alert. Right, thing about a roller
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: coaster you're going to get off that, you're highly alert
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: spinning around like then you stop and you are like,
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: oh my gosh, I don't feel good. Right, highly alert.
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: So for some kids who are really you know, sluggish
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: in the morning or in the middle of the day,
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: doesn't in the morning if you're really sluggish, like getting
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: up and getting moving walking around even you know. Some
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: we do have some kids who are spinners. My son
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: was one of these. He would sit in a like
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: I would have one of these scooters, like the scooter boards,
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: and you can put that kiddo on it on his
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: knees and spin them and he's to do and then
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: he's ready to go right like without that, he wasn't.
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: So that helps him to alert for the things that
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: he needs and wants to do. Finally, the last sense
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: that we haven't mentioned, and I know I'm flying through
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: these like crazy, but I want us to be able
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: to talk about them and communicate. We need to have
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: some basic definitions, right of course. So the last is introception,
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: which is more about what you are feeling internally. So
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: if you think about out in your belly, right, you
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: could feel things like I feel nauseous, I've cramps, I'm hungry,
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: I have to go to the bathroom. Right, All of
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: these things can all be in the same general area,
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: but you have to be able to decipher between them,
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: to be able to know what to do. So that
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: internal sense of what's going on, and it's not just
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: in your belly that's just my example, but of what
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: is going on. That's where our self awareness comes from.
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: And same thing. You know, I feel twittery or I
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: feel my heart's beating fast. Not to know that, then
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: I can equate that to an emotion of anxious or
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: to an emotion of excitement. Right, But you have to
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: be able to recognize what's bring on internally to then
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: express that externally to communicate.
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and that awareness is the key and teaching kids
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: about sensory processing and sensory needs because we don't do that.
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: We don't do it's not part of parenting or educating,
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: and so a lot of kids sort of just they adapt,
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: they you know, they learn it, whatever it's sort of
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: comes naturally. But then for a lot of our neurodivergent kids,
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: there's more difficulty I think with that processing, that awareness,
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: that communication, and so we struggle and we I think
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: often see behaviors, challenging behaviors, unwanted behaviors that are actually
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: stemming from sensory struggles and are coming out in crazy ways.
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: That we don't always put that together right, and so
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: this communication can be so valuable in that way too.
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: But also we want kids to understand their body and
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: what they need and be able to give themselves what
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: they need when they need it, right, So how do
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: we build that awareness first? That's the first step right
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: in this communication.
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's really interesting that interesting can be the
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: basis for a lot of the being able to communicate, because,
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: like you said, without this awareness, how do we even
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: communicate what you've got? You can't advocate for yourself when
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: you're not aware. And how many times are we actually
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: telling kids to suppress what it is? You know, it
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: doesn't matter what you need to sit down and because
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: it's we're doing whatever we're reading or we're doing math,
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: and it's time to sit down and one, two three
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: eyes on me, right, So what we need to be
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: doing is giving our kids a language and helping them
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: to understand that internal state. So there's a few different
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: ways to do that. Number one is interception and proprioception.
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: We actually are finding our very linked and this is
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: what our most current research is saying things like, even
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: if you imagine you know yourself, if it's been raining outside,
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: and you've just been laying down on the couch or
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: whatever all day and you're watching TV. It's a random
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: day that you're allowed to do that, which as a
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: parent doesn't happen often but could. So let's say you're
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: doing that and then all of a sudden you get
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: up and you're like, oh my gosh, when's the last
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: time I ate or when's the last time I've been
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: to the bathroom? And I need you to do all these
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: things right. You've totally because you haven't moved, you totally
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: have ignored these parts of your system. So if we're
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: asking our kids to be still, then they're also most
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: likely not as aware of what is going on eternally.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: So we need to be building in movement as much
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: as possible. And I totally get that is really difficult
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: in a classroom environment where we've got thirty different kids
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: and somebody needs to be moving and somebody needs to
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: be sitting, and how do we build that in right? Thankfully,
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: for me, within the homeschool environment, that's way easier. You know,
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: we just build into our our day of getting up
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: and moving frequently. It's built into you know, for us,
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: we cook in the morning while I'm reading aloud. My
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: son is able to move at that point. Well, now
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: he does the Hockey Academy, but when he was home,
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: that's what he was doing. And then after we do
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: our morning time together where we're reading history and all that,
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: then we built in a chore time to our day,
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: so that that's a functional way of adding in this movement.
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: So he would I used to joke and say we
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: had the cleanest floorboards in all of America because that's
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: what works for him. He would crawl and wripe a
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: floorboard and crawl and like a wipe a floorboard, So
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: he's getting all this approprioception right functionally. Then we could
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: go outside and you know, or we would do a
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: little bit more math or whatever and then you could
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: go outside. So it's a lot easier in that way.
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: Within a classroom setting, we have to really think about
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: how can this happen? And sometimes that's flexible seating, you know,
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: being able to sit on a ball, or sit on
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: a t stool, sit on a sit disc. I'm laughing
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: because I'm pointing to mine where I sit on all
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: the time. So our kids, if we are building that awareness,
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: then we can use language like, oh, I notice that
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: it's easy for you to whatever focus on this math
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: because you're moving some or wow, I noticed once you
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: got up and you moved around a little bit and
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: you did push ups or something like that, then it
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: was easier for you to sit back down and you
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: could look at me when we were talking.
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: Whatever.
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: It is that with your specific kiddo that shows you
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: when he's alert or in this what we call the
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: zone of optimal alertness, you know, where you are really
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: able to focus and get something accomplished a task that
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: is being asked of you. Right, if we can notice
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: the parts of their body, like how they express that,
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: whether it's their pasture, whether it's eye contact, whether it's
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: you know, their shoulders are all hunched up or they're
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: more relaxed, or whether it's that they're able to look
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: around at everybody else and you know, take in the
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: sensory information with a smile on their face. You know,
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: every kid's going to use their bodies to communicate this differently.
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: If we can add language to that and really observe, we're,
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: in essence, teaching them to advocate for themselves.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: Have you ever bought a vitamin your kid refused after
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: just one try. Yep, me too. I talk with parents
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: all the time who are concerned about their child's eating habits.
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: They're trying to support their kids nutrition and it just
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: doesn't work. It's not you, it's that most supplements aren't
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: made for kids with sensory sensitivities. They either taste okay,
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: but they don't really do much, or they're packed with
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: nutrients but kids won't take them. That's why I'm excited
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: to tell you about Best Part Kids. It was created
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: by autism dietitian Britton Coleman, who works closely with selective
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: eaters and understands how real this struggle is. She designed
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: it to be both nutritionally meaningful and sensory friendly, so
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: things like taste, texture, and how it mixes are actually
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: taken into account, and the nutrients are informs that are
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: easy for the body to use, which just means you
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: don't need extreme amounts to get the benefit. It's just
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: one small way to help fill in nutritional gaps in
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: a way that might actually work for your kid. If not,
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: they offer a sixty day money back guarantee. Check out
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: what Best Part has to offer at Bestpartkids dot com.
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: And use code complex for ten percent off. And I
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: used to do the movement with school work for homework.
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: Like kid never just sat at a table and did work.
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: Not young anyway. You know, he had a hot ball.
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: He's a very sensory seeking so he had a hot ball.
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: He would bounce around in between the living room and
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: the dining room, and I would call out, you know,
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: spelling words, and he would practice spelling or whatever it was.
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: Or we used more tactile things because he has dysgraphia
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: and writing was difficult and definitely not preferred. So like
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: I had Plato and alphabet cookie cutters and we would
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: spell that way sometimes, or we would use like dried
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: past stuff or math, and you know, just trying to
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: lean into what he needed to be able to focus
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: and sitting still, he was not able to do it.
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: I have this video somewhere saved on a computer somewhere
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: or something from years and years ago, where he was
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: trying to do his reading because you know, in public school,
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: each grade has like a certain amount of reading every night, right,
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: and he would really struggle to focus on the reading.
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: And he was literally upside down on my bed with
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: his feet on the wall doing this and reading, and
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: it was like the only way he was going to
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: read a whole page, Like you know, it's just what he.
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: Needed, right because he was actually doing the things that
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: he needed to do with the freedom to do so.
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: You know, their kids who have suppressed this so much,
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: they don't even know what they need. But you have
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: worked with him enough that he knows that are given
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: him the freedom to do so. So in that position, right,
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: he's getting that proprioception through his hands and his feet
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: because he's got them pushing, which again kind of calm
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: the nervous system. But he's also upside down, which is
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: more of that vestibular. So if you think about that,
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: that's usually more alerting. So you're probably like, what, Sarah,
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: Here's the thing is that with that alerting system, a
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: lot of our kids have these very narrow thresholds. You know,
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: I was talking about this zone of optimal alertness. So
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: some kids have a very why zone of optimal alertness.
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: They can sit there and they can you know, focus
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: on their math for hours right there, quote unquote, and
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: I hate saying this, but it's true. In the in
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: our system, they're going to go with the good kids
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: because they're easy, right, they are most likely neurotypical, but
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: also they just know how to work in the system,
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: and their bodies are able to do so. Right. For
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: our kids who can't, they also and they may have
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: these very narrow thresholds. So your son he needed some
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: of that vestibular to stay alert, and then he also
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: needed that appropriate reception to stay calm all at the
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: same time, right, and with that freedom to do so.
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: With my son, we would also use a lot of
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: attatchable things. I had these monassory letters, and I would
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: put them on one side of the room, and then
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: he would get on that same scooter and pull his
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: way over. I'd be like, grab the CA whatever. He'd
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: grab it, spin around a couple times, pull it back
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: to the other, put down the seat, go get the.
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: A, and then come back.
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: So it would take us more time, but he was
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: using all of his body so that then he could
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: focus on the actual spelling rather than focusing on just
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: keeping his body still.
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: And they're communicating their needs right through the behavior through
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: like I didn't say, hey, go stand on your head
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: and wiggle your legs and see if you can read.
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: Like I never would have thought of that. Myself, right,
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: But it was him communicating this is what I need
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: without knowing what to say or yet really having that awareness, right.
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: And I think so very often our kids show us
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: what they need and we dismiss it. Yeah, we think
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: it's crazy, we think it can't work, we think that
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: they need to do it differently, we have different ideas,
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: and we dismiss it. And we need to be more open,
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: I think, to looking for that communication within different behavior.
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: Right or the environment does and allow for it, right.
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: I mean there are times for sure that you know,
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: my son couldn't get on a scooter and move all around.
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: I always think about when we would go to Thanksgiving
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: at my in last house. Now they have this glass
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: coffee table, and every time we would have to do
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: this preparation before we're going, like, you cannot jump off
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: the stairs and land in the glass coffee table because
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: you were going to get hurt. And yes they are
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: your family and yes they love you, but they're not
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: going to be happy if you break their coffee table.
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: You know, Like there are things where we just have
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: to lay out the expectations before. But as we would
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: do that would say, okay, so what can we do
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: to meet those needs. In essence, how can I say
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: yes to you? And we would have to prepare for
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: this for quite a while before we would go and
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: get there, and he could come up with ideas. But
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: again only because we've tried this over and over and over.
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: We used to put all of his stuffed animals in
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: a bean bag chair. It was like a zip up
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: bean bag that you could put them all in there,
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: and so he would always bring that and there was
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: a spot in their basement where he could put that
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: and jump on.
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: It over and over and over. It M right. Yeah.
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: Also is very calming for him to suck through a straw,
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: and so he would be like, I need my straw
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: and I need my stuff and.
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: Then we can go again.
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: This is because we've communicated about it for so long,
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: of like this is going to be the no, But
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: what are your yeses?
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah? I love that. I always try to think about
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: how can I say yes to this? And it could
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: be a quantified yes that's okay, but yes, it is
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: often better than a no for a lot of things
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: because they really are telling us what they need, what
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: they want, what works for them. Let's shift a little
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: bit and talk about actual like language to communicate sensory needs.
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: What can we teach our kids to be able to
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: tell us what they need? Sometimes? How do we you know,
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: we've talked about building that awareness, so this to me
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: might be the next step.
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: Mm hmmm, yeah, So I want to mention first about
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: building some of that awareness. There is a curriculum by
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: our name is Kelly Mayler, and she is an occupational therapist,
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: and she has written a beautiful curriculum about inter reception
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: and how to help our children to do so or
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: to build that sense in itself and begin to communicate
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: about it. And she is fantastic.
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: Her work is fantastic, really is amazing. Yep.
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: I would recommend that in looking up some of her
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: information just to help you to understand more of what
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: that interception is. But once we have some of this awareness,
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: we need to be able to yes, talk about it right.
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: And just like I mentioned a little bit ago, things
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: like if your body is you know, tense, your shut,
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: your shoulders up, and your heart rates going, it could
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: mean lots of different things, and we as parents oftentimes
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: will say what we think that means, like oh, you
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: are anxious, right, maybe, but they also might just be
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: really excited, and that can often look the same or
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: they might be angry. Right, So us giving this I notice,
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: I see I feel or.
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: I think you feel.
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: So this is how I'm interpreting it. Right, That can
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: help to give our kids some ways to talk through it.
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: So it's in essence, separating out what you feel and
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: what the emotion is. Like we in America, we think
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: they're the same thing, but really they're not. What you're
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: feeling and what that emotion is are two different things.
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: So that just declarative language can be really helpful in
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: that sense. And there are several books on how to
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: use declarative language that can be really helpful. Unfortunately, off
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: the top of my head, I cannot think of them
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: right now, but I could.
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: Linda Murphy wrote, like the Declarative Language book, Yeah.
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: So good. I did you even need to come up
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: with a stuffman?
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: Somehow I had it? Yeah, shocking.
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: So that is just general language. Now, there are a
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: few systems within you know, the OT world that can
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: be really helpful for families. One is we call it
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: how does your engine run? Or the alert program? And
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: what that one is is it allows kids who need
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: something more concrete to be able to talk about what
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: they're feeling. So, for example, you could pick some three
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: different things and it's called how does your engine run?
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: Because it started with you know, a chu quo train,
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: you know, a speed train, and a I forget what
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: the other I mean, but you could do anything. It
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: could be a Jaguar, you know, Toyota Corolla, and like
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: a pup pup car. Right, so we're looking at three
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: different ways. Do you feel like you are your body
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: is flying or almost out of control like you're here
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: at the Jaguar level? Right? Do you feel like you're
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: just calm and you're able to you don't really focus?
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: All right, We're a Toyota Corolla. Do you feel like
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: you are really pluggish, like after Thanksgiving dinner? Then you're
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: like a pup puck car, you know. And you can
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: use this with anything. I've had families who've used it
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: as animals, you know, based on what their kids are into.
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: I've had one family who did Disney Princesses because their
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: daughter really loved Disney princesses and so they did like
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: tinker Bell like flittering around, right, and Cinderella and Sleeping Beauty,
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: and so that's how they started to communicate just generally,
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: how does your body feel? Do you feel like tinker Bell?
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: Do you feel like Cinderella? And so they would have
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: to do things like when you are getting ready to
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: get started at the dinner table, all right, Cinderella probably
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: needs to be at the dinner table because sleeping beauty
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: isn't so much good worth you know, putting your head
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: down or whatever. And tinker Bell would have a really
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: hard time sitting there. So what can we do to
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: meet the demands of the environment at that time to
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: help your body to get to Cinderella. We do not
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: all have to be at Cinderella all day long, every day.
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: In fact, that's not really possible for anybody. We are
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: all sensory beings, you know, we are all fluctuating throughout
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: the day. But to be able to label it and
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: then say what do I need right now? This activity
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: is demanding Cinderella, right, how can I help my body
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: to get that way? So that's another There's zones of regulation,
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: which I'm sure many I you've heard of. That's a
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: lot of schools use that and they have you know,
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: blue is more of If we go back to the
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: alert program, Blue would equate to sleeping beauty in that
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: time where you're just again feeling really sluggish.
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: Green is where you are in that zone of optimal alertness.
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: Yellow would be more of your starting to feel like
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: you might be overwhelmed, you're starting to feel where you
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: are coming out. For some of our kids, it's close
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: to meltdown or breakdown time, right. And then red is
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: when you are in that meltdown or breakdown time or
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: just totally overwhelmed, need to get away all of that.
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: So the struggle is that, though it is easy because
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: you can oftentimes just say, oh I'm blue, I'm be
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: out whatever, a lot of our schools don't take that
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: second step as to okay, great, and they're like I'm
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: in green, awesome, I'm in blue awesome, but there's nothing
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: or like you're in red, and like some people will
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: be like, well that's bad, but it's not. It's not bad.
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: It's that we need to work through. Yeah, right now,
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: what do we need, Like what is your environment demand
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: right or what do you need to be quote unquote
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: successful in that activity? And how can we help you
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: your body and your nervous system to get to that point.
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: So that second step is really really key is Okay,
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: we support you to get to where you need to be.
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: Sometimes you're just red and you need to move away, right,
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: and we need to say like, yeah, you're red and
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: you need to move away, and we're going to support
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: you in that moment.
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: Most likely it's not me talking to you. Oh my gosh,
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: it looks like you're red. Wow, what are you going
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: to do about this?
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: That's probably not not really going to work at that moment.
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: No, we use that program for a while with my son,
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: and he loved legos and I would have a Lego man.
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: I carried him with me everywhere. He was always in
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: like my purse or whatever, and he had you know
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: how the Lego figures had that like I don't know
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: what's the one thing on top of their head. I'm
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: sure there's some name for it. Yeah, And so we
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: had the blue, a green, a yellow, and a red
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: little thing.
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: That would interromp of it. Yeah.
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I would just like show it, or you know,
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: i'd be like, I think you're you're green right now. Whatever,
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: let's let's write a story or whatever we were going
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: to do. Or I think I'm noticing that your shoulders
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: are really tight and you're starting to cleanse your fists.
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: It looks like you're in this yellow zone. Let's whatever,
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: you know. But if he was in that red I
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: most of the time did not use any language. It
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: literally handed it to him and with something that I
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: know usually works for him. Because if I was talking, oh,
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: it looks like you're in red. Wow, I'm noticing that.
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: You know, your face is tight and your shoulders are up,
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: and all that language from my mouth would have thrown
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: him even it would have been so much.
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: Harder, worse. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, at that point, that lego figure is what he
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: needed and what worked.
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: So not always verbal communication m m. Sometimes we need
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: other things.
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: Sometimes we need a hush m hm.
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, we talk way too much.
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and let them be. And really that's where some
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: of that advocacy comes in, because then we can observe
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: and watch them, watch what they're gonna do if we
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: just have this basic language, and then they can begin
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: to really calm down.
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: Tell us a little bit about your new children's book
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: and how parents might be able to use it to
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: foster more conversation around sensory.
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so this book actually came It's called a chameleon tale.
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: I'm going to hold it up here in case you're
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: watching or you could see it that way. So a
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: communion tale, a colorful sensory story. And it started my
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: really good friend Jackie, who actually lived with her during
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: graduate school. She edited all of my papers for OT school.
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: She has a kiddo very much like mine, like my Caleb,
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: that we've been to talking about, and she was like, Sarah,
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: where's the book that really illustrates this, that allows them
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: to see and read? So see and hear, right, So
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: we can add in this other sense of a story,
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: you know where kids stories change lives, right, this is
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: what can settle and sit in your heart through story.
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: We're not going to talk about, you know, your Disney princesses.
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: I mean, well, I guess you will, but it's a
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: little different. At that point, we were like, I don't
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: think there is one, and so we wrote it because
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: she's an illustrator and a very beautiful illustrator. If you
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: again can see these like what she can do is
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: like she's just spectacular. So what we did is we
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: took these chameleons who fluctuate throughout their day with their
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: color on what's again, going on introceptively, it's allowing the
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: internal to be externally seen or externally communicated without language.
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: So they are all going on a journey to the
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: chameleon cafe, which you know, how many times are we
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: asking our families to go and do something and to
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: go to a space that has certain social requirements. So
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: you go into a restaurant, No, you can't be on
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: your scooter and spinning around because your sinsora needs are important,
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: but they're not more important than you know, Grandpa who's
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: sitting behind you, who would be so disturbed by you
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: doing that, right, So the chameleons all change colors throughout,
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: and Mama really helps to provide them with opportunities. So
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: on their way, like one is running around, one is
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: really worried, and so she's using this declarative language to
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: help to prepare him for what's happening. She does some
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: deep squeezes, right, so it builds an extra layer of like, oh,
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: are you like seth right now? Or you know, I'm
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: seeing you could use the colors within this one too.
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: My very favorite part is at the end they get
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: back and Mama's put them to bed, and Mama then
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: change color because you know, she's thinking about all the
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: things throughout the day and how much she's given to
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: her own children, and she has to meet her own
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: sensory needs. And this allows our kids to recognize, wow,
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: like mom also has needs. And so I've heard it
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: from many families who are talking about that is their
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: best part of this book for them because they're able
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: to say to their own kids, I'm like Mama, or
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: you know, I am I am teel right now I
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: need this, you know, to communicate in that way where
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: they're realizing like, oh, I'm not the only one who struggles.
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: So I've been really blessed by hearing that from other families.
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: So love it.
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: There is a lot of language also some ideas, and
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: allows your kids to see that this happens not just
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: to them, but to everyone around them.
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's so important for not feeling so othered,
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: for having a sense of belonging. And I really appreciate
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: that you've created something that helps kids to feel seen,
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: heard and understood. You know, it's what every human deserves
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: in my opinion.
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: And it was just highlighted by Disability Bookweek, which is
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: super exciting and they highlight books that do help all
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: kinds of kids to feel heard, seen and understood. Their
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: work is very beautiful and so I'm super excited to
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: be a part of that.
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: Absolutely tell everybody where they can find you online, where
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: they can find the book, and then of course I'll
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: link that up in the show notes as well.
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: Amazing, So you can find this book on Amazon or
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: any other book retailers in that way. You can also
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: request it at your library, which I've heard a lot
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: of people are doing recently and I absolutely love to
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: hear that happening. You can find me at homeschoolot dot
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: com or on any social media It's homeschool Underscore ot
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: and I'm happy to chat and to talk and just
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: anything and everything to support families. Awesome, Oh podcast, Yes
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: you pity just joined me?
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: I did?
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: We should link that one in the show notes due totally.
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: We can definitely do that, and those show notes will
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: be at Parenting ADHD and Autism dot com for everybody,
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: and again I will have all of Sarah's links there
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: and link to the book as well, so that you
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: can take advantage of learning more from her, helping your
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: kids on their sensory journey and all of the benefits
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: that come with that awareness for us as parents too,
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: of our kids' needs and being able to communicate with
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: them about that and helping them to eventually self advocate.
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: Right if they learn what they need and can communicate
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: it now, they can advocate for what they need. So
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: a beautiful arc to that, I think. And I appreciate
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: you so much, Sarah, being here and giving us some
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: of your time and your wisdom. And I'll see everybody
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: next time. Take good care, absolutely, thanks for having me.
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: I see you. You're doing hard and meaningful work and
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: you don't have to do it alone. If you found
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: this episode helpful, share it with someone who needs it
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: and leave a quick review so others can find this
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: support too. When you're ready for next steps, the Regulated
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: Kids Project is here with the tools, coaching, and community
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: to help you raise a more regulated, resilient child. Get
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: more info at regulated kids dot com