Latest / The Efficient Advisor: Tactical Business Advice for Financial Planners / 189: Avoiding Advisor Burnout and Functioning at Your Highest Level with Guest Spencer Sherman

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189: Avoiding Advisor Burnout and Functioning at Your Highest Level with Guest Spencer Sherman · The Efficient Advisor: Tactical Business Advice for Financial Planners

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: We all know that this business can be a complete and total hamster wheel, showing up doing the thing, living in the tornado that is your to-do list and tasks that need to be completed day in and day out.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: It's hard, and the more successful you get, the easier it is to get caught up in the whirlwind.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: So, if you're like most advisors, you hit a point in your business where you're there right.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: You're at that place that you prayed for, you're making money.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: You're not worrying about the bills or how you're going to make it.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: You maybe even have some team members to help you doing some of the tasks that you don't love.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: But at the same time, it just doesn't feel like you imagined it would.
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: Perhaps when you pictured being at this point, you pictured more peace and more calm and less overwhelm and less to-dos maybe not more to-dos and you've been maybe thinking that you'd have more margin in your life and that you wouldn't be quite as tethered to your phone or checking emails on the weekends.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: You maybe thought you wouldn't be.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: You know, always kind of feeling like you're trying to get caught up, and then maybe you've said this to yourself.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: I know I certainly have.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: If I could just get through next Wednesday, everything should slow down and then it doesn't.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: Well, burnout is real and, as you know, I firmly believe that establishing more automation, more delegation and more processes in your business helps with this overwhelm greatly.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: But your mindset around this is also really, really important.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: Today's guest, spencer Sherman, and I are going to talk about burnout, improving your flow state, turning off your to-do list mindset and finding a balance between success and enough.
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: And if it sounds a little woo-woo to you, you know, maybe that's your thing, but even if it's not, spencer shares a ton of practical and tactical advice for better listening skills and enhancing your own performance and happiness.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: And who doesn't want to be functioning at their highest level?
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: Let's go Look.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: I know you're here because you know it's possible to have energy left over for your family and still have your dream business.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: You know the business that you are running instead of it running you.
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: If you're new to the Efficient Advisor, I'm Libby Grywe.
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: I started, built and sold by 37, a 100% referral-only planning practice that I grew to seven figures as a solo advisor, all while working just three days a week and taking off 14 weeks a year to lean into being a mom, a wife, a friend, a sister, a daughter and, frankly, a travel-obsessed human who loves taking vacations.
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: And I'm here to walk alongside you and to show you how to do exactly the same and to help you take immediate action on the most important strategies for scaling, organizing and creating less stress and overwhelm in your business.
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: We are about to transform your practice, so move over exhaustion and get out of the way.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: Advisor ADD.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: It is time to take that one right next step to build a business and a life that you love, and in order to do that, you've got to have the right mindset, we've got to avoid burnout and we need to be able to show up as our highest self.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: So let's dive into this conversation with my friend, spencer.
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: All right, spencer, I'm so excited.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: I'm so glad you are here.
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: I am very much looking forward to this conversation.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: Me too, Libby.
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, thank you for being here.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: So if you would for the listeners, would you just share sort of what your journey has been and sort of I guess?
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: You know, thinking about it, Libby, it was kind of traditional.
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: Like when I got to adolescence, I started hating numbers, I started hating the idea of making money and I told my father I'm never going to make any money, I'm never going to be successful like you.
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: I just don't want any of that.
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: And then, of course, I come full circle and find out about this profession.
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: That I think is just amazing.
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: It combines all these numbers that I have in my background I was this math, major economics and yet it also combines psychology and I was starting to get interested in psychology.
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: I was starting to explore this other side of myself that had been kind of buried, because I think I just knew growing up that to make money I had to focus on numbers and I ignored everything else.
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: And so this profession really spoke to me, this possibility of using both sides of me, the analytical side and the more psychological side.
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: So that's how I got into the business and I love it.
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: I have to say that I started a firm in 1988 and I was the founding CEO and I'm no longer the CEO and I shouldn't be the CEO anymore.
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: My skills are much more in relationship skills, teaching skills, not so much being that CEO, being on top of all the processes that make the firm really work well.
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: So we have two great co-CEOs right now, two women running the firm, and I'm focusing on how do I help people at Abacus, the firm I started, but how do I help financial advisors across the country, actually across the world?
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: I've had some advisors come from outside the country.
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: How do I help people cultivate a mindset that's going to lead to success?
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: And to me that word success has to include emotional wellness.
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: There is no such thing as success.
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: That's only financial success.
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: That's how I was brought up by my father that if you get to financial success, there's nothing else you could possibly want.
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: Of course, I've seen I think we've all come to see.
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: You spoke to it when we were chatting about burnout.
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: Burnout is serious.
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: There's two forms, I think, that come to me quickly about burnout.
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: There's the obvious burnout if someone burns out at at 39 or 40 and just quits.
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: But there's also the the, the more stealth burnout, which I think is more common that we're just not really functioning at our highest level, we're not living our best life, we're going through the motions and we're doing it decade after decade and then maybe we wake up in our sixties or seventies, but maybe not, and we just have less.
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: We just haven't really given our full gifts to our clients, to ourselves, to our friends and family members, because we've been sacrificing something for so long.
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: Yes, oh my gosh, I have been having this conversation with advisors more frequently than I think ever, even before.
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: So the efficient advisor has been around for about I don't know nine, 10 years now.
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: And this idea of burnout or just going through the motions or starting to like disconnect emotionally for this business that they once prayed for, all of these things right, they wanted the money and they wanted the team and they wanted the support and the systems and the processes and all the clients and assets under management.
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: And they hit this point where they're like okay, I have everything that I could have ever asked for, but I'm still dissatisfied, I'm still not feeling super connected to this business or I'm having a difficult time setting goals because I don't really know what I want to do or where I want to go with this.
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: So, so talk to us about this idea of kind of mindfulness and how, how, when you're working with advisors, how do you get them into a place where they're more connected with maybe their deeper purpose or passion or really understanding.
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: You know, how does it look to work at my highest level?
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: Like what is functioning at my highest level really look like.
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: So I started this Mindful Advisor program, which is a one day, one, one-overnight retreat for financial advisors Also, invite attorneys and CPAs to it as well and it's in this gorgeous place in Northern California and it focuses on cultivating these mindfulness skills, emotional intelligence skills, things like how do you let go of that worrying, worrying mind?
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: How do you interrupt the mind that tends to ruminate?
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: You know, because we do that in this business, right?
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: We worry about the markets, we worry about is this client going to sign on or not?
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: And we even do that during a meeting where, like, instead of focusing on what the client is saying or sensing what's happening, we're worrying about is this person going to sign or what should I say next?
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: We're rehearsing what we're going to say instead of actually really being there.
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: So we actually cultivate and practice these communication skills, these maybe I should call them really presence skills, like how do you bring your full presence?
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: Because that's what our clients, our potential clients, really want more than anything, more than us being able to recite what a defective grant or trust is or what the limit is for a Roth IRA or a 401k plan.
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: They want our presence, they want to know that they can trust us.
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: They want to know that they're going to be able to get to their own wisdom, like they're going to be able to figure out their lives, because we provide this, this incredible safe container to speak into, that we are such good listeners and we're so.
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: We're so good at asking sort of catalytic questions, questions that are going to really drive their insights.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: That's what they might pay us the big money for and unfortunately, I think a lot of us financial advisors, including myself we have been conditioned to think that we have to come up with the right answer for the person, and that's true to a certain degree.
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: Like when someone asks you how much can I put in my IRA Of?
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: Of course there's a right answer to that question.
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: But for the for the bigger, more complex issues in life, what I have found that creates way more success, way more referrals, way more retention, is if we can get that client to get to their own answers, can get that client to get to their own answers, because if they can get to the truth that I need to save more money, they're going to do it.
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: If I tell someone to save more money, they're much less likely If they can see a path forward that is about buying a second home or something like that, and it's coming from them.
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: It's so much more likely to happen.
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: So that's part, and to do that one needs to learn how to listen really well.
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: And in order to listen really well, you've got to be, you got to sort of start cultivating a more spacious mind.
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: You mentioned that this flow state that's the other thing we cultivate is we have people sort of reminisce and you can even do that right now as you're sitting here is think about a time in the last few weeks, the last few months, maybe the last few years, when you're in that place where you were outside of time.
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: You weren't thinking about when is this gonna be over, you were just in the experience.
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: It's sort of like being in the zone when you're playing sports, or maybe if it's happening when you're playing sports, or maybe it's happening when you're doing a spreadsheet, but you're just really focused.
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: You're really focused, you're really enjoying what you're doing.
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: It's like the opposite of burnout You're feeling rejuvenated when you're done with that task.
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: That's where we're trying to get people to remind themselves of the kinds of experiences that lead to that flow state so they can start to recreate them in their lives.
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: And then we're practicing these deep listening conversations and giving each other feedback, so it's sort of this laboratory to cultivate presence, which I think, libby, is really our most distinguishing quality.
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: Okay, I love that, so, so walk me through.
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: So I kind of had a similar you know experience within my own financial advisory practice where, you know, for the first several years I thought I was the guru that went up up the mountaintop together, instead of you know me being the one with all of the answers like hey, we're collectively collaborating on your financial plan and getting you to.
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: I love the word Sherpa, yeah, yeah and that was a really pivotal switch for us, and so I love this idea of what you're talking about, like making these adjustments and becoming a better listener.
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: So when you are in this retreat setting, give me an example like what are some of the ways that you're teaching advisors?
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: Or like what are some of the exercises that we're doing.
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: So I might have advisors say to a client the person who's pretending to be the client in these role we do some role play exercises I might say, okay, what?
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: Repeat back to them what you're hearing.
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: And I might say, okay, sally, what I'm hearing is you're saying that you're feeling really stressed about work.
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: You'd like to save more money.
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: But you can save more money.
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: Is that, am I getting what you're saying?
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: So it's like you're checking in, you're learning how to check in with the client, and just that in itself is a very kind of humble move, because it's kind of going against the financial advisor grain, which is like I know everything, I know what they're saying.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: So to check in with someone.
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: The other thing that I practice which is really hard for advisors, libby and we all have to get trained, including myself is when you say to me Libby, can you tell me about asset allocation?
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: I am not going to pause for a nanosecond as soon as you say what is asset allocation?
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: Can you tell me about how my investments work?
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: I'm going to go on for maybe 30 minutes or 20 minutes.
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: Maybe I'm exaggerating a little bit, but can you imagine how so many of our clients maybe want to hear a minute and we go on for 10 or 20 minutes.
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: So it's like learning.
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: So I suggest ask them do you want me to give you the 30-second synopsis, or do you want the 10-minute synopsis of what investment allocation is?
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: So being able to pause and ask that question is something we practice because it's not an automatic thing for most financial advisors, it's not built into our personalities.
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: So some of that.
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: We also do a lot of mindfulness exercises, and those mindfulness exercises are designed to cultivate a mind that's less reactive, because as we're sitting, all kinds of thoughts arise.
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: All kinds of planning thoughts arise.
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: Because we're planners, our to-do list mind is going off and can you sit there and not react to all of the things that are popping up?
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: Because it's the same in a client meeting, the client is saying something and can we sit there without necessarily reacting to what they're saying and really digesting it, checking in about it and like, when they ask a question not necessarily immediately answering it making sure that you're answering it in the way that's gonna really serve them?
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: So it's like all of that takes it takes some humility, it takes some presence, it takes that ability to find that spaciousness in the mind which we're cultivating with these mindfulness exercises and you know many people come who have never done any kind of mindfulness or meditation and what they've discovered?
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: And I don't know if you know the John Kabat-Zinn he started teaching mindfulness in hospitals across the world.
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: They started out in Massachusetts, across the world.
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: They started out in Massachusetts and what the studies that he did at MIT show?
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: That in a few mindfulness sessions you can actually alter the neural patterns in your brain.
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: That we can actually.
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: These brains are more elastic than we think and just interrupting our patterns just in a few sessions can start to change things.
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: So it doesn't have to be like years or decades of meditation.
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: You might just do a few sessions and then taking that into your practice and practicing it when you're with your clients and pausing for a moment in a meeting, letting the client catch their breath.
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: You know, letting go of the need to show off that you're the expert.
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's another thing that we're cultivating is this ability to feel your own worthiness without having to prove it, because that doesn't clients, don't right?
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: You don't have to be the smartest person in the room.
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: Exactly, and no client has ever liked me when I've tried to impress them.
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: That's not what they want.
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: They want to-.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: No more acronyms.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: Don't use your acronyms.
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: Don't use your big language Exactly.
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: I mean.
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: That's why I love your Sherpa word, because the star in the room is the client.
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: We have to just get over it.
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: We are not the star, we are there to be the helper, the Sherpa.
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: And how can we help this client?
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: And especially it's very obvious with a couple.
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: If you've ever had a meeting with a couple and they've done 90% or even 99% of the talking, those are the meetings which they love the most and they thank you the most and they refer the most.
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: I've found after those meetings I haven't hardly said anything, but I gave them the structure, the safe space to have that discussion about should we pay for our kids' college or should we make them borrow the money for college.
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: And they did it with me, with my presence, and I didn't maybe even say very much.
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: Maybe I said well, some clients do it this way, some clients do it that way.
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: That led to referrals, that kind of meeting you know.
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: So that's what they're wanting from us.
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: Well, it's interesting because I saw I think it's Zoom now offers a feature that will tell you what percentage of the time each speaker was talking.
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: So if you, as an advisor, can track like here's how much time, here's how much space I took up in this meeting and here's how much time my clients took up in my meeting, and trying to push that number towards allowing the clients more space in the meeting, and trying to push that number towards allowing the clients more space in the meeting, I think is a really interesting statistic.
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: That is brilliant.
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: That is really brilliant.
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: Wow, I love that.
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: I love it.
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's.
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: You know, it's like, what do we want as advisors?
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: We want to have fun with our clients.
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: We want to see our clients, you know, have great lives.
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: We want to.
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: We want the the the new client experience to be easy for us.
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: We want to get referrals easily.
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: And you know, I think all of that happens through us not being so attached to things happening according to our agenda.
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: So I also go into meetings.
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: I have an agenda.
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: I send out the agenda in advance.
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: I ask the client is there anything else you want to add to the agenda?
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: Most often they say no.
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: And then when I get into the meeting, I say to myself even though the agenda is my agenda and it's so important because I made it and I know everything, I'm going to surrender to what happens, because in that moment the client walks in and they say look, you know, my aging parents are overspending.
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: That's what's happening.
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: That's what I want to redirect the meeting to, that's what I want to focus it on.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: So it's like being in the moment with people and learning how to let go.
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: I think brings us more success being able to let go of a potential client that doesn't call you back right away.
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: I mean that you know, and seeing it as it's a numbers game, right, you have to have like 10 prospects out there in order for one to land this month, and it takes a while for us advisors.
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: Took me a long time to learn that and I used to.
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: I was facing burnout because I couldn't understand why everybody wasn't signing up.
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: You know, and it's never gonna be like that, it's never about you, it's most often a timing thing, and that's why I also recommend to advisors that you keep checking in with those potential clients, because if the timing's right, they'll say yes.
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: That is the biggest determinant of them.
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: Starting with you is not necessarily how great you are, it's timing.
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, absolutely, and I want to come back to so you're talking about flow state.
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: I want to come back to this, because I just had ADD, so this moment just popped into my head here, when you were working with advisors and you identify like okay, here's the thing that I'm doing, that I am in my flow state.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: What do you suggest next?
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: Is it trying to do more of that particular task, like in kind of rethinking your role within the firm or the organization?
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: Or what do we so when we identify?
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: this flow state.
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: What do I do with?
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: that information.
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: So the first thing is to get in touch with the qualities of mind that are present, to really know those qualities really well so that you can identify a flow state the next time it happens.
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: And then it's to if let's assume that flow state happened when you were skiing, let's, for example, it's to think about where.
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: Tell me about times when you felt something like that at work and trying to identify those flow states.
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: And the other question I'll ask is tell me about times when you felt something like that at work and trying to identify those flow states.
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: And the other question I'll ask is tell me about the two or three clients that you tend to feel that with most often.
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: And that's where I'm going to start to push you.
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: I'm going to say I want you to get 30 clients like those two or three clients.
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: I want you to be unreasonable.
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: Or three clients.
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: I want you to be unreasonable.
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: I want you to only settle for clients that put you in more of a flow state.
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: Go for that, because that's where you're delivering the most value, and it always turns out that way that the people we're in the flow state with that's where we're adding value and that's maybe why we're in that flow state.
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: We're not feeling nervous, we're not feeling like we have to try harder.
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: It's just happening because the client's really benefiting.
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: There's a convergence of our personalities and all that.
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: So too many, I think, so many of us and I'm in this camp too it takes us a long time to realize that the only thing we're selling is our time.
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: And yet we start filling up our weeks with all these clients that are not right for us and then we say, well, I can't get rid of them because they're my clients.
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: Well, isn't it your life?
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: And if you're not totally enjoying those clients, then don't you think you'd be better off?
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: Don't you think they'd be better off if they were with advisor that was absolutely thrilled to have those clients?
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: So start moving I mean, this is not a binary thing, it's not just gonna necessarily happen overnight but to start moving, to start segueing those clients to other advisors, either within your firm or another firm.
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: And it's just been magic, as I've done, that when you really take a stand for the kind of clients you want, they'll start to be attracted to you and you start saying to the clients who do love you hey, I am open for new clients, I just let go of some clients that didn't fit me anymore.
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: Clients love hearing that.
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: That you let go of a client that didn't fit you, it makes me trust you.
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: That makes me trust that you're gonna take clients that you really work well with and not many advisors Well you have to get a pat on the back right.
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: They're like I made the cut, Like I got to stay.
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: Yes, exactly, exactly, and you can't fake this stuff.
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: You know you.
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: You know I say you've got to say no to several potential clients every year.
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: If you're not saying no to people, something's not right.
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: Something just isn't probably right.
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: You know you.
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: You want to be in that place where you can tell everybody I don't say yes to everyone, and you mean it.
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: So that's a great segue into this idea that you and I were chatting about before we hit record, this idea of success versus enough, and when this episode airs will be a couple months into the year.
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: Everybody's motivation was crazy high on January one and they set these big, you know audacious goals for themselves, which is great and I love.
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: But let's talk about how, when you're thinking through, like mindfulness for advisors, what does that look like in defining success?
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: Like what is a good practice for us to have?
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: Like when we're thinking about what is success for me and my business.
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I love this.
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: Well, this is another principle that we talk about in the Mindful Advisor Retreat.
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: We focus on it a lot, this liberating idea of enough, which sounds boring and sounds limiting, but it's not the idea of enough actually.
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: If we're really in that place.
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: We're actually in a flow state, because we're no longer this sense of desperation like I need more, and you can feel this in yourself.
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: Maybe you've just taken on a big client and you're in that place where you're not feeling this grasping energy in you.
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: That's a beautiful place to be, and so what I say is have the audacious goals that you just mentioned, that you set up for yourself in January, but can you set yourself up so that you're not dependent on any of those goals happening?
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: Like, what if none of them get realized?
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: How can this year still be your best year ever?
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: That's a beautiful place to start to aim towards.
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: How could this year be the best year ever even if none of those goals happen, even if none of your new year's resolutions happen?
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: Uh, the we are in a business that we don't, we forget, is so driven by numbers, it's so driven by more and, as we were chatting, where is the?
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: You know we're always.
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: We're always focused on the clients in.
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: You know, in terms of some clients never get to that place of of enough.
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: But part of that is because we have a tendency to want to push clients to more too, because financial advisors can't get sued if the client has too much right, it's only if the client has too little, but both are bad.
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: It's only if the client has too little, but both are bad If you wind up with too little money.
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: Or I've had clients who feel they have too much money and they missed the epic vacations in their 50s, 60s and 70s because they were being so frugal.
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: That sweet spot is really important and finding that sweet spots for ourselves as advisors, I would say, is going to move us towards that flow state.
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: And here's the irony, libby, is that when we're in that flow state, when we're in this place, I call enough a boundless place, which might sound kind of contradictory.
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: But when we're in that boundless place of enough, we tend to make more money because we're no longer grasping for it.
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: Imagine showing up for a prospect meeting and you're just at ease.
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: You are so completely at ease that you don't really care if they sign up with you or they sign up with someone else and you know there are many other great advisors out there.
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: You're not so innocent and naive to think that you're the only good advisor in the world.
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: That's a very strong place to come from.
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: The you know.
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: It's sort of you know, I could you know like we know this in the dating world right, when somebody is desperate, people aren't as attracted to that person as when they're at ease with themselves.
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: And it's so true in the business world too, and especially as financial advisors, to have to find that place of enoughness within ourselves.
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: So, as you were saying, before we get started, it's like do you really need a lot more clients this year?
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: Maybe you do, maybe you don't.
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: I mean, usually we need to probably add a few clients every year just because there is some attrition.
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: But to really know the numbers and not just put in an automatic like oh, I have to grow by 10% or 20% or 30% this year.
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: If you look at your whole life, what's really important for you this year, what's really important for you this year, and let those things that are really important be the drivers, rather than the 10 or 20% growth.
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: Maybe what's really important this year is that you have a lot of impact on your clients.
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: Maybe what's really important this year is that your health improves.
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: So focus on those things.
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: I think if you focus on those two things, I think your business is gonna grow.
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: It's gonna, and I think maybe you focus on those two things, I think your business is going to grow and I think maybe even grow faster than if you're so focused on this.
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: I've got to grow by 20% this year Because that brings in a compulsion.
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah for sure.
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: And then there's this sense I think too, if you don't hit that 20% I see this all the time with someone who grew 18% and they're like, but I didn't hit my goal, and I'm like, but you still grew 18%, like that's, that's huge, and I think so.
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: I think what you're talking about is almost like a way to combat this idea of imposter syndrome as well.
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: Right, that everybody's a better advisor than me.
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: I don't deserve to be here Like kind of this opposite of we're all really great advisors, each in their own unique and different style and methodology and philosophy, and building that, that kind of confidence in who you are as a planner, that what's meant to be yours will be yours.
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: What's not meant to be yours, that's great, and it'll go off and be.
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: You know, belong to somebody else.
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: So when you have an advisor who has been attached to really number-based goals, how do you help them make that shift?
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: Like, what are some of the exercises, things that we can do to really kind of make the shift to?
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: Well, I've been in this industry.
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: That's been.
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: I've been told it's a numbers game and I need to see this many people and do this many things and have all of these numbers-based objectives to what does it look like for me to be healthy?
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: How do you make that shift?
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I think you still have the number goals, but let go of the attachment to the number goals and see what happens this year If you're not attached to the number goals but you're attached to having impactful meetings with clients and that every meeting that you go into, every meeting you go into, you have an agenda for making something happen.
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: You're going to maybe even tell the client here's how much you've grown over the past few months or over the past year.
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: You're going to ask them how are my services impacting you and your family and your life?
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: So let that be your focus, something like that.
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: Maybe your health be the focus.
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: What's my energy level?
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: I want to increase my energy level by 20% this year.
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: If you focus on those things, those clients are going to come.
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: Those clients are going to refer to you because so much of it.
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: You think about the times when you've gotten referrals, the times when somebody has signed up with you.
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: Has it happened when you've been completely stressed or has it happened when you've been more in a flow state?
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: And that's the other important thing to start connecting.
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: Uh, so I would say that, yeah, you know you can have the number goals, but but know that we are so much in a world and a profession where it's all about more and that more, that driving tendency towards more doesn't necessarily provide the give us the impact that we want to have on our clients in the world.
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: If we're having huge impact on our clients, they're going to stay with us, they're going to refer to us and that's, you know, those are really sort of the easiest ways to grow your business is to get those client referrals.
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: So focus on that.
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: Focus on that client impact.
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: And the way to have client impact is to really take care of yourself.
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: And if you're telling your clients that you're going to help them find out what their enough number is and you're not practicing it yourself in your own life, well, they sense that we think we can lie to clients, but we can't.
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: They see through everything.
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: So if your calendar is completely booked and you have no spaciousness at all, your life is, you're always busy.
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: You're coming from this place of not enough, of scarcity, and what if you start to shift that a little bit this year towards this place of enoughness?
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: What if you do your own financial planning, your own projections and find out what that maybe you've gotten to your place of enough already and start operating from that place that now I'm growing my business, not to add to my, for my own material needs, but because I want to.
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: You know, I want to grow my.
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: I want to help more people, I want to do more philanthropy or whatever it might be, but you start to shift your goals from I need this money to pay my bills towards I want to.
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: I love my clients, I love impact, impacting them, and that's what I'm here to do this year.
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: So I think that's a big.
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: It's a big shift and it's one of the things that I've been practicing for decades and one of the things that we're cultivating this mindful advisor retreat, this moving from more to moving to this, this very happy place of enough, because enough does not mean that you give up.
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: You give up those audacious goals.
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: You can still have them.
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: You're just not dependent on them for your own wellbeing.
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I always say that there's this, there's this, there's this disconnect that sometimes people think that contentment is the same thing as complacency and they're just, you know, and you can live in a place of contentment and not necessarily be complacent and still have desires and dreams and goals, but also be like and I'm actually at a place where it feels kind of good Like this is also kind of good.
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes.
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: And I'm going to further answer your question.
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: You know I sometimes will do an exercise where I'll have advisors share.
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: You know all those years that they've hit their numbers and yet what they feel afterwards.
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: They often felt this sense of still lack, like like yes, they hit their numbers, but then they heard about somebody else who did a 25% growth rate, and they were.
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: They only did 18.
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: So it can you know, once you get yourself on that treadmill of wanting more, you're always going for more, you're always comparing, you're in that loop of not really getting to that place of contentment.
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: And again, contentment, it's a beautiful quality.
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: Imagine showing up at all your meetings and genuinely exuding contentment, not this contrived contentment or passion, but it's a natural contentment.
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: People will read that, they'll see it in you and they'll say you've got to hire this advisor.
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: This will start to happen.
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, I love that.
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: So I will make sure all of the information related to the Mindful Advisor Retreat is in the show notes.
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: I think this is just a great opportunity for advisors to step out of the tornado that is their business.
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: Yes, and get some awareness some mental clarity all that because that's literally what it is.
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: So before I let you go, I always like to ask anybody who runs a business, owns a business, what are some of the things that have helped you operate more efficiently, whether it's a software that you're using, a tool that you're using a mindset hack, something that has kind of increased your efficiency or your productivity, or you're like oh, like, this is the thing that I use all the time and I just want other people to know about it.
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: The first thing that's come to my mind is something so simple.
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: Libby, you might laugh, that's my favorite.
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: It.
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: Actually.
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: It's so scary to me that maybe I just have a very small brain or something and that's why it works so well for me.
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: But it's the Pomodoro technique.
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: It's so simple.
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: It's like when I set my iPhone timer to 25 minutes and I say one task, that's it.
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: Somehow my mind knows, it's like it's like a trained puppy in here and it knows OK, you're going to do this for 25 minutes and then you're going to get a five minute rest period as reward.
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: Even if it's not done, you're going to get that reward.
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: And that's the important thing with the Pomodoro technique is you've got to stay true.
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: You don't go over those limits.
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: You know, maybe it's 25, maybe it's 30 or 35, but give yourself that, that.
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: You know that five minute break to take a walk, stretch your legs, get a snack, drink, drink some tea and then go back for another 25,.
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: That has been a very simple, very inexpensive, free technique to use for me to up my game.
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: And I think the other thing is knowing what is my aim for every call that I have, especially with clients.
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: What's my aim for this call?
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: I, what?
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: What's, what's the biggest thing that I have to get done?
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: Because often, you know, we tend to add in so many things, and what if I just get one thing, one big thing done in this meeting or with a colleague or something?
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: So it's like focusing on those big rocks instead of all the pebbles.
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: Um, yeah, it's another thing that goes hand in hand with the enough idea is with client meetings.
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: I've tried to have them be a little more space instead of filling them with 12 agenda items.
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: I like that.
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it's funny.
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: I actually I did a blog post maybe a few months ago on Pomodoro and how that oh really.
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: Yes, I am a huge fan, huge advocate of it.
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: I do the 25, five.
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: Um, that's worked amazing for me over the years.
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: Isn't it amazing that something that silly, that simple can work so well?
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: Why do you think it works?
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: I don't know, for me, I I yeah, I don't know.
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: For me, I think it's like with having, um, you know, uh, an inability to focus on things for a long period of time.
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: But like I can be like, okay, I'm gonna set my timer, I'm going to do this thing, and then I can't get up until it goes off, so I'm just, and then I can get actually into like, instead of a distracted state, I can get into a hyper focus.
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I know that it's not going to last forever, so that's where, for me, that's been really helpful.
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: Like I'm going to hyper-focus on one thing, and then having having an ending like time to like.
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: Okay, I'm going to get this thing done by the time this little timer goes off.
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: That's beautiful for me.
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: That's beautiful to say that all these studies they've done on mindfulness they all show that when you increase your focus you get out of that ruminating mind and you move from a depressive more of a depression kind of type mind state to a content mind state.
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: That rumination and worry and being distracted actually moves us more towards depression and unhappiness and when we're focused it brings on that contentment.
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: So very well said, libby.
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: Oh, I love that.
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: Well, good, well, thank you so much I know somebody listening today will will have some sort of nugget that they take away from this and hopefully we can.
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: Together we can avoid burnout for advisors and get them more systems and processes and more mindfulness and allow them to build both a business and a life that they love.
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: So thank you for being here.
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: I hope you guys found that helpful.
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: I think every now and then even though sometimes it's not like earth shattering information or like the newest, most novel, most like creative solutions of all time right, sometimes I think it's just nice to have a reminder or just a refresher on how to recenter yourself as a business owner, as a parent, as a daughter or son, as a friend, as a community member, all of the things, because burnout is real and I think the environment that we live in in today's society is so go, go, go, go go.
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: And then you add being a naturally ambitious, motivated entrepreneur on top of that and it can be a recipe for disaster.
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: I've been having a lot of these conversations with advisors lately, just really trying to get to what is the root of what they want, what are you trying to do and is the pace that you're going at in order to accomplish those things?
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: Is it worth it?
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: Is it healthy?
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: Is it rewarding enough?
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: In fact, I just got off a coaching call with an advisor who was just like you know, I'm killing myself and I don't even love what I'm building right now, and I think it's really important to build that white space and build that margin into your calendar to really be able to step back and be mindful about the business that you're building and making sure that you're building it in a way that is serving you and serving the lifestyle that you want while being able to serve your clients, that you want while being able to serve your clients.
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: So, anyway, I hope you found this information helpful, and burnout is real and it can be really really hard to overcome, so I'd love to chat more with you about this.
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: I'm going to be speaking at XYPN's conference as a keynote speaker this September in Minneapolis.
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: I would love to hang out with you and connect with you there.
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: I will also be speaking at the Retirement Tax Services Summit in Tempe, arizona, this September.
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: I'd love to connect with you more there as well, and we will have a special event for my podcast listeners at the RTS event.
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: So if you're going to sign up, make sure you use my link.
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: There is a link out on the efficientadvisorcom and in the show notes for this episode where you can sign up and your name will be on the list.
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: And once we figure out whatever it is that I'm doing and whatever it is that I'm hosting I don't know if it's going to be like a speed coaching, or if we're just going to have some small group hangout time or what exactly additional content, something else that will be special just for you guys.
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: Steven and I are still kind of um, just brainstorming what that might look like and I'd love to hear what you think would be helpful.
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: That actually matters more to me than what Steven thinks, even so, anyways, I'd love to connect with you more about that out in the efficient advisor community over on Facebook and, as you know, I hang out on LinkedIn.
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: Feel free to connect with me and to send me a direct message, but I would love to hear what ideas you guys have and what you think would be a helpful or exciting or fun thing for us to do out in Tempe.
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: Thanks so much and hope you guys have an amazing rest of your week.