Latest / The Right Time with Bomani Jones / Ethan Strauss on How LeBron BROKE Steph Curry & the 73-Win Warriors in 2016 | 06.25

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Ethan Strauss on How LeBron BROKE Steph Curry & the 73-Win Warriors in 2016 | 06.25 · The Right Time with Bomani Jones

0:01
Speaker 1: Wave. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the right time. A
0:11
Speaker 1: wave original. My name is Beaumont Jones. Thanks for listening
0:15
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcast. Thanks for watching us on YouTube. Subscribe, like,
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Speaker 1: rate us, review us, give us five stars. You only
0:21
Speaker 1: give us four stars. I'm inclined to believe You are
0:24
Speaker 1: a hater. It is Time Machine Tuesday. We are looking
0:27
Speaker 1: back at the 2016 NBA Finals. The Cavs and the
0:33
Speaker 1: Warriors joining us. Check him out at House of Strauss.
0:36
Speaker 1: I think we, in a certain way, kind of exist
0:38
Speaker 1: as the friend that each of our friends have a
0:41
Speaker 1: lot of questions about. Either Strauss, how are things?
0:46
Speaker 2: I don't know if that's true of you, Beaumont. That
0:48
Speaker 2: might be true of me. I don't get asked about you.
0:50
Speaker 2: People do not complain about you to me. So you know.
0:54
Speaker 1: I know. Not complaining. They ask.
0:59
Speaker 2: Ah.
0:59
Speaker 1: They ask. You know what? I'm not the first person
1:03
Speaker 1: to tell you.
1:05
Speaker 2: I look, I'm shocked. I hope I can hold it together.
1:09
Speaker 2: I hope I can hold it together the rest of
1:11
Speaker 2: this podcast and focus on the Warriors and Cavs, but
1:14
Speaker 2: I I'll make it through. I'll muddle.
1:16
Speaker 1: Hey man. So, um, even got, has got his own
1:19
Speaker 1: thing going, um, on sub stack. It's really interesting. I
1:22
Speaker 1: think you honestly should check it out. He's one of
1:24
Speaker 1: the few people who I subscribe to your newsletter and
1:27
Speaker 1: actually read it as soon as it comes through.
1:28
Speaker 2: Right.
1:29
Speaker 1: So I'm, Some people I'm doing favors, right? I mean,
1:32
Speaker 1: I check this out and periodically nag you with how
1:34
Speaker 1: much I think you're wrong, but not because I don't
1:37
Speaker 1: think that you gave us some consideration, which has got to,
1:39
Speaker 1: you know, compliment, high praise.
1:43
Speaker 2: I appreciate that. I would say that there are those
1:46
Speaker 2: who write a lot, but I think that's maybe the,
1:49
Speaker 2: what is it? Marketing efficiency. It's something where I just
1:52
Speaker 2: try to get something out every weekday in the morning,
1:54
Speaker 2: about a thousand words. And just by doing that, That
1:58
Speaker 2: seems to be differentiating, Bomani. There's just not as much
2:01
Speaker 2: writing versus back in 2016, a short time ago, where
2:05
Speaker 2: there were articles everywhere.
2:06
Speaker 1: Yes, and Ethan was writing them for ESPN about the Warriors.
2:11
Speaker 1: And as I recall, you started covering them right when
2:15
Speaker 1: it got cracking, right?
2:17
Speaker 2: Yeah, I got very lucky. I said that getting hired,
2:22
Speaker 2: it almost felt like when you're hungry, And you open
2:26
Speaker 2: up the pantry and you just want something. And there
2:28
Speaker 2: are some stale almonds and you shrug. That's what I
2:31
Speaker 2: thought I was for ESPN because I was just Johnny
2:34
Speaker 2: on the spot. I just happened to be showing up,
2:37
Speaker 2: happened to be covering this team when they were absolutely terrible.
2:41
Speaker 2: When Epe Udo was the lottery pick of focus. I'm
2:45
Speaker 2: not trying to insult him. I thought he was a
2:46
Speaker 2: great defensive player before he got injured and a good guy.
2:50
Speaker 2: And my God, it just all of a sudden became this.
2:55
Speaker 2: huge event and steph curry took off as a superstar
2:58
Speaker 2: i really think his moment was that madison square garden
3:02
Speaker 2: game and that february where it just went up a
3:05
Speaker 2: whole other level and they needed somebody and i got
3:10
Speaker 2: hired as a full-time staff writer i've been doing work
3:13
Speaker 2: for espn before it but i got hired as a
3:15
Speaker 2: full-time staff writer the exact day that mark jackson got
3:19
Speaker 2: fired so that was my experience.
3:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we talked a bit with Logan Murdoch about
3:25
Speaker 1: kind of the building of the team and going through
3:27
Speaker 1: that actual season where they went 73-9, and it was
3:30
Speaker 1: just kind of comedy. But the postseason, I think, for
3:34
Speaker 1: the Warriors turned out to be interesting in a part
3:36
Speaker 1: that Warriors fans will always remember and that LeBron fans
3:40
Speaker 1: don't necessarily like to talk about, which is this thing
3:43
Speaker 1: got rolling, but Steph gets hurt early in the playoffs.
3:47
Speaker 2: Yeah.
3:48
Speaker 1: The Warriors were still really, really good without him. Like
3:51
Speaker 1: certainly not a complete team, probably not one that wins
3:54
Speaker 1: a championship, but they were rolling so tough that it
3:57
Speaker 1: wasn't against Portland. They basically just walked through without him. Yeah.
4:01
Speaker 2: And Draymond was amazing. I think I've become almost a
4:04
Speaker 2: defender of Draymond's legacy in a weird way. Not because
4:08
Speaker 2: I think that he's so wonderful or I owe him
4:11
Speaker 2: any sort of favor. I'm sure he would say some
4:14
Speaker 2: critical things about me and my coverage if we were
4:17
Speaker 2: looking back at it. But I was there. And when
4:19
Speaker 2: you were there and you were around the team, you
4:22
Speaker 2: have a different context sometimes than what the conversation becomes.
4:25
Speaker 2: So when I see people saying, oh, if he was
4:29
Speaker 2: in a different situation, he wouldn't have been good. And
4:31
Speaker 2: he's so lucky that he just found the perfect situation.
4:35
Speaker 2: I look at Draymond and I say, he helped create
4:38
Speaker 2: the situation. There wasn't really a situation before he arrived.
4:42
Speaker 2: Nothing was promised to him. And if you look at
4:44
Speaker 2: some of his games in that Blazers series, he was
4:47
Speaker 2: incredible and he was offensively dynamic as well. And people
4:51
Speaker 2: will push back at it, but I think that that
4:53
Speaker 2: era of Warriors, pre-Kevin Durant, he was the second best
4:57
Speaker 2: player on the team. And that is not a controversial
4:59
Speaker 2: opinion if you were around that situation.
5:02
Speaker 1: I mean, any of those, and I guess it's a
5:06
Speaker 1: little bit different now that more teams play this style
5:09
Speaker 1: of basketball. But any team that played something that you
5:12
Speaker 1: could call small ball, and I've always contended that the
5:15
Speaker 1: Warriors were actually not small. They played a brand of
5:18
Speaker 1: basketball that involved a level of shooting. that you would
5:21
Speaker 1: associate with the team being small. But at every position,
5:24
Speaker 1: even Steph is not small for his position. Clay Thompson
5:27
Speaker 1: is not small. The closest thing you had to it
5:29
Speaker 1: was Draymond. But the way that it has to work
5:32
Speaker 1: for a team like that is you've got to have
5:34
Speaker 1: a guy that can be really flexible in terms of
5:37
Speaker 1: who it is that he can guard. Because when the
5:39
Speaker 1: minutes really matter, you're not putting Bogut or Festus Azili
5:42
Speaker 1: on the floor necessarily. You need it to be in
5:44
Speaker 1: a position where if you put one of those guys down, they– Draymond,
5:48
Speaker 1: if somebody decided to go big on you, Draymond can
5:50
Speaker 1: be the guy to guard them. Sean Marion was that
5:52
Speaker 1: guy for the seven seconds or less Spurs, for example.
5:56
Speaker 1: Dennis Rodman, when playing with the second three-peat Bulls, when
6:00
Speaker 1: they're taking Luke Longley and Bill Whittington, how much you
6:04
Speaker 1: want them on the floor? Rodman is the guy that
6:06
Speaker 1: can slide up and down. So there's a perfect situation
6:08
Speaker 1: part of it, but also there ain't that many people
6:10
Speaker 1: that could have done what Draymond did in what we
6:12
Speaker 1: call a perfect situation.
6:14
Speaker 2: No, and I think because... It's a funny thing where
6:18
Speaker 2: people get drafted, what their reputation is. And I talk
6:21
Speaker 2: about draftism. That's huge in our discourse. You would think
6:25
Speaker 2: that if you exceeded people's expectations, they would like you better.
6:30
Speaker 2: But sometimes what happens in sports is that it makes
6:32
Speaker 2: them almost resentful of you or suspicious of you. And
6:36
Speaker 2: they think that you must have had good fortune because
6:38
Speaker 2: They're anchored to the idea of what you were previously.
6:42
Speaker 2: So after Draymond becomes this thing, I remember everybody's trying
6:45
Speaker 2: to find the next version of him as though it's
6:49
Speaker 2: just so easy. You can just find that type. And
6:51
Speaker 2: Denzel Valentine, that's this guy who fits this mold. No,
6:55
Speaker 2: he was just an original. He's great at basketball. And
6:58
Speaker 2: it's not just Guardian 1 through 5, which at the
7:01
Speaker 2: time it happened was revolutionary in the way that he
7:04
Speaker 2: did it. Somebody who could switch on to Chris Paul.
7:07
Speaker 2: and also guard the biggest centers in the league, he's
7:10
Speaker 2: also grabbing that rebound and pushing the fast break as well.
7:14
Speaker 2: So there just weren't many, if any, guys who did that.
7:18
Speaker 2: And a lot of the nerdy plus minus statistics, which
7:21
Speaker 2: are obviously helped by the other talent the Warriors have,
7:24
Speaker 2: but especially Draymond was absolutely dominant. And maybe it's a
7:29
Speaker 2: bittersweet memory for him or for fans of the team,
7:33
Speaker 2: in a way, this playoff run is his absolute peak,
7:36
Speaker 2: even if it didn't result in a Warriors championship, and
7:39
Speaker 2: even if he infamously is associated with why they lost.
7:43
Speaker 1: Yeah, one of my favorite sporting phenomena is, wow, here's
7:48
Speaker 1: the thing we've never seen before. Now we're going to
7:52
Speaker 1: get another one. What? That's like, yeah, you know what?
7:55
Speaker 1: Who's the next Patrick Mahomes? Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey.
7:58
Speaker 1: We're only having this conversation because there ain't going to
8:00
Speaker 1: be another one. Like, that's not... Yeah. That's not really
8:02
Speaker 1: how it works. But that, I think, the Warriors trucked
8:07
Speaker 1: through those first two rounds, again, even in the points
8:10
Speaker 1: without Steph, that when the Oklahoma City series comes up, like,
8:14
Speaker 1: I think playing in the conference finals against Oklahoma City,
8:17
Speaker 1: which had, I think it's easy for us to lose
8:19
Speaker 1: sight of, they never made it back to the NBA
8:22
Speaker 1: finals after 2012. They also were really snakebitten in some ways.
8:26
Speaker 1: You had the one postseason where you were... In 2013,
8:29
Speaker 1: where Patrick Beverly goes into Russell Westbrook's knee, and that happens.
8:33
Speaker 1: You have 2015, Kevin Durant winds up with the broken foot. 2016,
8:37
Speaker 1: and we don't really, we don't fully know this at
8:40
Speaker 1: the time, but it is in the air all year
8:42
Speaker 1: long that Kevin Durant is probably going to wind up
8:44
Speaker 1: signing with the Warriors. That's on the front end. But
8:47
Speaker 1: this is the last chance for this collection of guys
8:50
Speaker 1: who finally, everybody's healthy enough, right? They hadn't gone through
8:55
Speaker 1: a postseason where for them, it felt like they had
8:57
Speaker 1: all their guys. Everybody was healthy enough in this series,
9:01
Speaker 1: but they're playing against a team that won 73 games.
9:05
Speaker 1: They just also happened to have Kevin Durant and a
9:08
Speaker 1: willingness to play two big guys at the same time.
9:11
Speaker 1: A lot of teams tried to go small and do
9:14
Speaker 1: what the Warriors did. That didn't work. They tried to
9:16
Speaker 1: go the other way. We're going to put big guys
9:18
Speaker 1: out here, and it worked for four games.
9:21
Speaker 2: I mean, there was a physical presence to it. What
9:25
Speaker 2: was cool back then versus what it's like for a
9:28
Speaker 2: lot of media members. Now I got to sit courtside
9:32
Speaker 2: at those Oklahoma city games and it almost seemed unimaginable
9:36
Speaker 2: at a point that the Warriors could turn that series around.
9:39
Speaker 2: They were just getting physically swallowed up by the thunder.
9:44
Speaker 1: And I, it.
9:46
Speaker 2: Felt as though it was just completely over. And when
9:50
Speaker 2: it ultimately, it did go seven games in the last
9:53
Speaker 2: game was kind of close, but it, ultimately really culminated
9:56
Speaker 2: in that game six. That game six is one of
9:59
Speaker 2: the most memorable. games of my life. And I don't
10:04
Speaker 2: just remember the stuff that happened in it, but also
10:06
Speaker 2: what it felt like afterwards, where even if you would
10:11
Speaker 2: have interviewed everybody in that arena and said, hey, is
10:13
Speaker 2: Kevin Durant coming back? They would have said yes. At
10:16
Speaker 2: the same time, everybody acted like something had died and
10:21
Speaker 2: the emotions were just out of control in that arena.
10:25
Speaker 2: After the warriors came back late and won that game.
10:28
Speaker 2: I remember Sam Amick now at the athletic was sitting
10:31
Speaker 2: next to me and he got into some screaming match
10:34
Speaker 2: with some angry thunder fans who were just unruly and
10:37
Speaker 2: out of control. I looked and I saw the thunder dancers.
10:40
Speaker 2: They were all weeping in the aftermath of the game.
10:44
Speaker 2: And I, There was just a real sense that something
10:47
Speaker 2: had ended, even if there was no official word, and
10:51
Speaker 2: even if everybody wasn't committed to the idea that this
10:54
Speaker 2: was the last chance for that Thunder team.
10:56
Speaker 1: I feel like one of the interesting things about the
11:00
Speaker 1: Thunder is... And maybe it's because they had their seasons
11:05
Speaker 1: affected by injury in the way that they did, but
11:08
Speaker 1: they never felt battle-tested, even though they'd been to every
11:13
Speaker 1: round that there had been in the postseason, that the
11:15
Speaker 1: core of their team had been together for eight years, right?
11:19
Speaker 1: Westbrook and Durant had been together for eight years while
11:22
Speaker 1: they were playing. They had this raucous arena that feels
11:26
Speaker 1: like a college field house, or at least that's the
11:28
Speaker 1: way that it seems on television. It doesn't seem like
11:30
Speaker 1: there's a whole lot of frills. Watching it on television,
11:33
Speaker 1: it looks like it's hot in there. It's just everybody
11:36
Speaker 1: standing up, everybody screaming. All of this is going on,
11:40
Speaker 1: and they get up 3-1. Also, let us not forget
11:43
Speaker 1: with Billy Donovan, who they just plucked from Florida. We
11:46
Speaker 1: don't have any idea. This is not a league that
11:48
Speaker 1: has a great track record of coaches coming up from
11:51
Speaker 1: college and being able to figure out how to make
11:53
Speaker 1: it work. Right. All of all of this has gone on.
11:56
Speaker 1: And like you said, they looked dominant in those games.
12:00
Speaker 1: Game five, as I recall, Golden State kind of put
12:02
Speaker 1: the screws to them at Oracle. But that was kind
12:05
Speaker 1: of what you would expect. Like that wasn't unreasonable. Like
12:08
Speaker 1: the defending champions are not going to get sent out
12:11
Speaker 1: of here at home under those circumstances. No chance. And
12:15
Speaker 1: then they had that– Oklahoma City, that is. They had
12:17
Speaker 1: that lead late. It's not as though, like, they just
12:20
Speaker 1: went out there and lost. They had that lead late,
12:22
Speaker 1: and they gave it away in part because Russell Westbrook,
12:25
Speaker 1: one of my favorite players of all time, and you
12:27
Speaker 1: just have to live with the bad that comes if
12:29
Speaker 1: you're going to have Russell Westbrook on the team. And
12:32
Speaker 1: the bill came due at the absolute wrong time. Because
12:36
Speaker 1: they were up with, like, two minutes left in that game, right?
12:39
Speaker 2: They were. They were up seven. I can't remember– what
12:43
Speaker 2: exact juncture, but they were up seven. And a lot
12:46
Speaker 2: of it was the defense. It's easy to remember Klay
12:49
Speaker 2: Thompson going absolutely crazy in that game. But the defense
12:53
Speaker 2: was huge at the end. And Durant looked gassed. You
12:58
Speaker 2: had Andre Godala doing those strips he does. He's got
13:01
Speaker 2: such a savvy and awareness of what's going to get
13:04
Speaker 2: called and when it's going to get called and when
13:06
Speaker 2: you can be aggressive and he goes for it. And
13:09
Speaker 2: they just were not functional players. towards the very end
13:12
Speaker 2: of that game and what a just mesmerizing scene i
13:16
Speaker 2: remember steph when he hit the dagger held up the
13:19
Speaker 2: seven in that building uh just truly one of the
13:23
Speaker 2: great series i've covered and one of the most memorable
13:26
Speaker 2: and then it just set the stage for the finals
13:28
Speaker 2: which was at least equal in measure though i don't
13:32
Speaker 2: know maybe it's through warriors colored glasses that the Western
13:36
Speaker 2: conference finals is more epic in my mind because most
13:40
Speaker 2: people would say it's that NBA finals. It's what followed.
13:43
Speaker 2: That's the truly memorable one with all the stakes, but
13:47
Speaker 2: we'll get into it. We'll get into it. That one
13:49
Speaker 2: had a lot of, that one had a lot of
13:51
Speaker 2: bad games, I would say, or a lot of lopsided games.
13:53
Speaker 1: Yeah.
13:54
Speaker 2: Yeah.
13:54
Speaker 1: We'll get to that. Cause there's a phenomenon that we
13:56
Speaker 1: just had it. I think with Oklahoma city and San
13:58
Speaker 1: Antonio where the series is better than the sum of
14:00
Speaker 1: the games, like as a, as a, as a narrative
14:03
Speaker 1: arc that happens, but I want to get to, You
14:05
Speaker 1: just brought up Klay Thompson and that, like, game six Klay, right?
14:09
Speaker 1: That's a thing. I, as much as we say that
14:13
Speaker 1: Draymond is the guy that wound up in the perfect situation,
14:16
Speaker 1: I think there's just a stronger argument that Klay Thompson's
14:18
Speaker 1: the guy that wound up in as perfect, if not
14:22
Speaker 1: more of a perfect situation. But the thing I always
14:27
Speaker 1: have to say about him that's important, because, you know,
14:29
Speaker 1: I'm not a Scottie Pippen guy. There are two kinds
14:31
Speaker 1: of people in this world. People think Scottie Pippen's overrated.
14:33
Speaker 1: People think Scottie Pippen's underrated. But the thing about Scottie
14:36
Speaker 1: Pippen that he doesn't have is a game six clay
14:40
Speaker 1: type of situation. Like there have been times where the
14:42
Speaker 1: Warriors needed Clay Thompson to be a guy to score
14:46
Speaker 1: 40 points. And he was capable of locking in and
14:48
Speaker 1: focusing and being the guy that could get you 40 points,
14:52
Speaker 1: even as a guy that could not really do much
14:54
Speaker 1: to generate his own offense. Like for whatever reason, I
14:57
Speaker 1: don't think of him the way I think about Reggie Miller,
14:59
Speaker 1: who I did think about as a guy who created
15:01
Speaker 1: his own offense through the screens and running around. I
15:04
Speaker 1: didn't feel that same way about Klay. And I could
15:06
Speaker 1: be wrong that a lot of this is predicated by
15:07
Speaker 1: the fact that somehow you're not even the best shooter
15:10
Speaker 1: on this team, which made it a whole lot better
15:11
Speaker 1: for you to be maybe one of the five best
15:13
Speaker 1: shooters we've ever seen. Well, Klay had some great branding
15:16
Speaker 1: with the whole Splash Brothers thing that he got to.
15:19
Speaker 1: There's an aspect of coattails.
15:21
Speaker 2: Chris Middleton never got whatever would attach him slogan-wise to
15:25
Speaker 2: Giannis and to Takumpo.
15:26
Speaker 1: Great point.
15:27
Speaker 2: So that was nice. But Klay also had this element
15:30
Speaker 2: where sometimes he could just touch the face of God.
15:33
Speaker 2: You can channel something beyond. And I'll just say it.
15:38
Speaker 2: Durant came to resent the way that clay was covered
15:42
Speaker 2: when Katie was on the warriors, because it's true. He
15:46
Speaker 2: wasn't wrong about his gripe that in the media and
15:50
Speaker 2: among fans, If Clay plays poorly, we're not going to
15:53
Speaker 2: talk about it. If he goes 4-15, I don't know.
15:57
Speaker 2: What did Steph do? But if Clay plays great, oh,
16:00
Speaker 2: then we're talking about it. But some of that is
16:02
Speaker 2: because when he played great, it was just far more memorable.
16:06
Speaker 2: When he's scoring 37 points in a quarter, for instance,
16:10
Speaker 2: he could tap into that. And I don't know what
16:12
Speaker 2: that is. I don't know if that's just luck or what,
16:15
Speaker 2: but Clay... for a guy who didn't necessarily hunt his
16:19
Speaker 2: own offense or act as a 1A offensive option, had
16:24
Speaker 2: a capacity to reach higher heights than a lot of
16:27
Speaker 2: guys who did have those shots and did have those opportunities.
16:30
Speaker 2: And I still don't know why, but he had it.
16:33
Speaker 1: You know, Clay did figure out the amazing power of
16:35
Speaker 1: not saying that much. Like if you're going to be
16:39
Speaker 1: a number two type of dude, he ingratiated himself by seeming,
16:44
Speaker 1: I think, just to be truly sincere and being a
16:47
Speaker 1: different kind of guy.
16:49
Speaker 2: Yeah. I just, you know, I remember in the series earlier. Yeah.
16:55
Speaker 2: I can't remember which Memphis series actually that this was,
16:58
Speaker 2: it might've been the 2015 Memphis series, but I remember
17:01
Speaker 2: I was at shoot around and he was walking up
17:05
Speaker 2: the arena steps and out of the building, which was
17:07
Speaker 2: strange because the players go to the bus, which is
17:10
Speaker 2: at the event level and the loading dock. So I'm
17:13
Speaker 2: just watching Clay just walk up the arena steps all
17:17
Speaker 2: the way up to the mid point of it. And
17:19
Speaker 2: Luke Walton said, man, every step of the way. And
17:22
Speaker 2: he said this because Clay would always get the same
17:25
Speaker 2: breakfast whenever he was there. Every step of the way,
17:27
Speaker 2: that guy is only thinking one thing.
17:30
Speaker 1: Omelet, omelet, omelet, omelet, omelet, omelet, omelet.
17:35
Speaker 2: Because that That's what his focus was. He didn't, he,
17:39
Speaker 2: there was a little bit of Manny Ramirez to clay
17:41
Speaker 2: where he wasn't thinking a whole lot about a whole
17:44
Speaker 2: lot else. And that served him well with what he
17:46
Speaker 2: was doing.
17:47
Speaker 1: You know, you mentioned Luke Walton also brings up the
17:49
Speaker 1: interesting thing about that team. Obviously it was that Kerr
17:52
Speaker 1: did not coach for the first half of the year.
17:55
Speaker 1: And Kerr also, we can't forget in this is a
17:57
Speaker 1: second year head coach. Like Steve Kerr is a much
17:59
Speaker 1: better head coach now than he was then. Like he
18:02
Speaker 1: had figured out something that was paradigm shifting for, But
18:05
Speaker 1: game to game in the postseason, there were always there
18:08
Speaker 1: were still questions to be had. And of course, they
18:11
Speaker 1: had the thing where Draymond Green had run of the place.
18:15
Speaker 1: And then Kurt came back and he no longer had
18:17
Speaker 1: run of this. I am not a robot.
18:20
Speaker 2: Oh, my God. I didn't just say that. He said
18:22
Speaker 2: he said a whole lot else in that infamous. That
18:24
Speaker 2: was back in Oklahoma City, too. That was the regular
18:27
Speaker 2: season game. Some say the greatest regular season game ever.
18:31
Speaker 2: That was the, on a personal note, when things fractured
18:34
Speaker 2: between myself and one Draymond Green, when I had to
18:37
Speaker 2: talk about whatever happened with him and Steve Kerr, there
18:40
Speaker 2: was a whole lot going on there. And I really
18:41
Speaker 2: do miss, I miss what Steve was. And I know
18:45
Speaker 2: he probably would agree. I miss what he was before
18:49
Speaker 2: the botched spinal cord surgery, which released a bunch of- Oh, well,
18:55
Speaker 2: it's also people don't even understand. People don't even understand
18:57
Speaker 2: what the problem was with it because they think it's
18:59
Speaker 2: his back. I would hear that all the time. People
19:01
Speaker 2: would say, oh, is Steve dealing with his back all right?
19:04
Speaker 2: That wasn't the issue. The issue is that the cerebral
19:07
Speaker 2: spinal fluid leaked out of there and he just had
19:11
Speaker 2: constant headaches and was in perpetual pain for months and
19:15
Speaker 2: months and months. And I don't know what the update is.
19:18
Speaker 2: I'd assume the body eventually heals itself. But he went
19:21
Speaker 2: from a very young Pete Carroll type of guy. And
19:25
Speaker 2: he did the podcast of Pete and he modeled a
19:27
Speaker 2: lot of what he did from watching Seahawks training camp,
19:31
Speaker 2: just high energy, just completely engaged to the maximum to
19:37
Speaker 2: somebody who was just racked with pain and trying to
19:40
Speaker 2: coach the most famous team in the world through the
19:43
Speaker 2: fog of that. It was tragic. And I think it's
19:48
Speaker 2: great that adventure things got steady for him. But they
19:52
Speaker 2: were trying to manage all that back then. They had
19:54
Speaker 2: this crazy win streak with Luke Walton at the helm.
19:57
Speaker 2: To what you said, Luke Walton's approach was let Draymond
20:00
Speaker 2: be Draymond. And Draymond discovered, you know, I kind of
20:03
Speaker 2: like being Draymond. I kind of like this. You had
20:06
Speaker 2: this component. That I think was just really hard to
20:10
Speaker 2: manage of a guy who never envisioned this level of
20:14
Speaker 2: stardom for himself. Was just trying to make the league
20:16
Speaker 2: as a second round draft pick. And all of a sudden,
20:19
Speaker 2: without any sort of restrictions from the head coach, he's
20:23
Speaker 2: now an all-star. I think he might have been seventh
20:25
Speaker 2: in MVP voting that season. And he's seeing whole new
20:29
Speaker 2: possibilities for himself. And then Steve comes back and says,
20:33
Speaker 2: don't shoot that shot. And that was explosive at that
20:36
Speaker 2: particular time.
20:37
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's like, I finally get to do this. And
20:39
Speaker 1: by the way, I've been doing it. Like, these shots
20:42
Speaker 1: are falling.
20:44
Speaker 2: Apparently you were the problem.
20:46
Speaker 1: That was the sense. Right, like, I don't know. It's
20:49
Speaker 1: just like, you go away, I turn into this.
20:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, which, I mean, he said something to that effect
20:55
Speaker 2: recently in a podcast that people were killing him, but
20:59
Speaker 2: you could see it from his perspective, and I thought
21:01
Speaker 2: he was a little more nuanced in what he was
21:02
Speaker 2: saying about it than what gets aggregated. But you could
21:06
Speaker 2: understand why he felt the way he felt, that he
21:10
Speaker 2: was being thwarted by the coach who wasn't necessarily as
21:15
Speaker 2: invested or as energized as he had been previously. And
21:18
Speaker 2: you could see some rumblings of that in the 2015
21:23
Speaker 2: championship parade. Because Draymond was, he was on the podium
21:29
Speaker 2: and he did that thing that sometimes happens at a
21:31
Speaker 2: wedding where somebody gets a little too drunk and a
21:34
Speaker 2: little too honest. And they're trying to do the thing
21:37
Speaker 2: of razzing somebody when they're up on stage. But it's
21:40
Speaker 2: not really connecting like ha ha funny. Right. And they
21:43
Speaker 2: got to kind of pull him off stage. And he
21:45
Speaker 2: was talking about how much he hates Steve and how
21:49
Speaker 2: much Steve hates him. And it was a little uncomfortable.
21:53
Speaker 2: So you could already see you could already see where
21:56
Speaker 2: this was headed just a long time out, despite all
22:00
Speaker 2: the success that they were due to have.
22:02
Speaker 1: You know, the Warriors, most uncomfortable championship species by a
22:05
Speaker 1: dynasty that there's ever been. It's topped by Joe Lacob.
22:09
Speaker 1: Shout out to that team that got all these guys
22:12
Speaker 1: on these great, cheap-ass contracts. He didn't say cheap-ass, but
22:18
Speaker 1: that's what everybody heard.
22:21
Speaker 2: Oh, yes, yes. Bob Myers getting a lot of credit
22:25
Speaker 2: up there, but the specificity of the credit that Joe
22:30
Speaker 2: Lacob gave him Quite amusing, I would say.
22:33
Speaker 1: But we got all of this. They wound up winning
22:35
Speaker 1: that game. Those people were crying in Oklahoma City because
22:38
Speaker 1: they were right. After game six, it was over. Warriors
22:41
Speaker 1: beat them in game seven. And now we get to
22:44
Speaker 1: the NBA Finals. Another face-off with LeBron James. The biggest
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Speaker 1: are back with Ethan Strauss. Check out House of Strauss.
24:15
Speaker 1: The NBA Finals in 2016, I think because the Warriors
24:19
Speaker 1: were so good none of us had really properly considered
24:23
Speaker 1: how good the Cavs might be. Like I know Brian
24:25
Speaker 1: Windhorst has said many times that the 2016 Cavs they
24:28
Speaker 1: might've been the second best team of all time. Like
24:30
Speaker 1: if the Warriors had won that, that the 2016 Cavs
24:33
Speaker 1: themselves might've been the second best team. I don't recall
24:36
Speaker 1: myself going into that thinking that the Cavs had that
24:39
Speaker 1: much of a chance to win it. But as we
24:42
Speaker 1: saw by the end of it, it was worth noting.
24:44
Speaker 1: The Warriors did have one shortcoming, which was another guy
24:48
Speaker 1: that you could trust to go get a bucket. That
24:50
Speaker 1: was the one thing that they did not have where
24:52
Speaker 1: the Cavs had two of those and they were both
24:55
Speaker 1: like top of their powers at that point.
24:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I don't think Klay, who is effective against
25:01
Speaker 2: certain players defensively, had as much for Kyrie Irving. I
25:05
Speaker 2: just don't think that there was something about Kyrie, his
25:08
Speaker 2: unique genius. It's just whatever made Klay good at what
25:13
Speaker 2: he did, I think it was strength and also size.
25:15
Speaker 2: It wasn't necessarily right for Kyrie, but to what Windhorse said,
25:19
Speaker 2: and I love Brian, I'm not even saying that he's wrong.
25:22
Speaker 2: I haven't really considered the suggestion, though I do think
25:26
Speaker 2: I would say that I would think that I would
25:28
Speaker 2: disagree is what I would say. I don't think anybody
25:31
Speaker 2: was feeling that way after game two of this series.
25:34
Speaker 2: After game two of this series, when the Warriors were
25:37
Speaker 2: up 2-0, they had just won 110 to 77.
25:41
Speaker 1: 77. I don't know anybody.
25:46
Speaker 2: And I was certainly among the voices who just thought
25:48
Speaker 2: this was done. This was over. And this was just
25:53
Speaker 2: an utter mismatch. when it came to the talent. So
25:57
Speaker 2: I don't know if I properly, I didn't properly respect
26:00
Speaker 2: those calves. I didn't, I just seen so much from
26:02
Speaker 2: the warriors. I think we were still in an era
26:05
Speaker 2: where we assumed that the regular season was a proxy
26:08
Speaker 2: for who you were as a playoff team. And so
26:11
Speaker 2: I can't remember how many games the calves won that season.
26:14
Speaker 2: Let me see 57.
26:15
Speaker 1: That's respectable.
26:17
Speaker 2: That's respectable. And man, I forgot they had the coaching
26:19
Speaker 2: change mid season craziness. So that's respectable, but the Warriors
26:23
Speaker 2: had 73 games, and this sounds stupid, but there is
26:27
Speaker 2: this reflex to go, 73 wins, 57 wins, up 2-0,
26:32
Speaker 2: what are we doing here? But obviously with LeBron, by
26:35
Speaker 2: that point, there's an element of him pacing himself and
26:38
Speaker 2: understanding how long a series is. And the Warriors also
26:42
Speaker 2: had this tendency that Zach Lowe identified back then, they
26:46
Speaker 2: would just give you a game sometimes. They just wouldn't
26:48
Speaker 2: bring the full energy on occasion. They wouldn't lose a
26:52
Speaker 2: close one. They would, as they did in the following game,
26:54
Speaker 2: lose 120 to 90 after being fully in control of
26:59
Speaker 2: that series. So, yeah, I don't think that I gave
27:03
Speaker 2: the Cavs enough respect. I can't speak for the Warriors
27:05
Speaker 2: as to whether they didn't give the Cavs enough respect.
27:07
Speaker 2: But these memories of that series, I think, a lot
27:11
Speaker 2: of it for me is clouded by the awareness of
27:15
Speaker 2: how messed up Steph's knee actually was. watching them work
27:20
Speaker 2: on that knee and feeling like it was difficult to
27:23
Speaker 2: really communicate that because at that point, Bomani, so many
27:27
Speaker 2: people resented the cocky warriors and Draymond specifically, especially after
27:33
Speaker 2: he kicked Steven Adams in the nuts in that Western
27:35
Speaker 2: Conference Finals. They did not want to give any sort
27:38
Speaker 2: of excuse to that team at all when they faltered
27:42
Speaker 2: and looked vulnerable against those guys.
27:44
Speaker 1: Well, one thing I want to say about the regular
27:45
Speaker 1: season part is they won 73 games. Like seven. I mean, yeah,
27:52
Speaker 1: we're going to think you're better than everybody when you
27:54
Speaker 1: win 73 games and you just came back from a
27:57
Speaker 1: serious test. Now one can make the argument that the
28:00
Speaker 1: fact that the Thunder pushed you to seven could be
28:02
Speaker 1: an indicator that, Hey, maybe you guys aren't as good
28:04
Speaker 1: as it seems regardless of what the reasons were, but
28:06
Speaker 1: they won 73 games. But you touched on something that
28:11
Speaker 1: I think has always been the case with these warriors.
28:13
Speaker 1: And to me, is much different than any champion that
28:17
Speaker 1: we've ever seen like this, which is a tendency to
28:21
Speaker 1: have lapses of attention to detail. Sometimes in small, like
28:27
Speaker 1: small in terms of time, sometimes in big stretches, but
28:30
Speaker 1: they would have this crazy ability to be down like
28:32
Speaker 1: 15 at the half and then come back and they're
28:34
Speaker 1: up 15 at the end of the quarter. Like they
28:36
Speaker 1: could decide, it's not just that they could lock in,
28:38
Speaker 1: it's that once they locked in, they could erase whatever
28:40
Speaker 1: mistake it was very, very quickly. And then it all
28:44
Speaker 1: goes and turns over. But you're right. They could just
28:46
Speaker 1: give away a game. 30 point loss in game three
28:48
Speaker 1: and then come back and win by 11 in game four.
28:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, the story of that playoffs for their perspective was
28:56
Speaker 2: a team that had this extra gear. Slowly losing the
29:02
Speaker 2: capacity to tap into it and yet retaining the habits
29:06
Speaker 2: and memory of we have that gear. But Steph gets hurt.
29:11
Speaker 2: They had injuries in that series.
29:13
Speaker 1: Bogut got hurt.
29:15
Speaker 2: Iguodala got hurt. You know, it was interesting. I want
29:16
Speaker 2: to skip ahead completely and maybe this is wrong, but
29:20
Speaker 2: the way you're bringing it up makes me want to
29:21
Speaker 2: bring it up. I think a lot of what happens
29:26
Speaker 2: when we get to talking about the suspension of Draymond,
29:31
Speaker 2: it was almost like if you would run a marathon
29:33
Speaker 2: and right when you're about to cross the finish line,
29:36
Speaker 2: they go, Hey, there's actually another mile. There's actually another
29:40
Speaker 2: mile here. Could you run that other mile? I mean,
29:44
Speaker 2: not everybody has it in them to, I shouldn't say
29:48
Speaker 2: not everybody has it in them, but I would say
29:50
Speaker 2: that recently Agassi, he was talking about, he was talking
29:54
Speaker 2: about Sinner and how he hit the wall at the
29:56
Speaker 2: French Open. And Agassi was explaining, look, he's got to
30:01
Speaker 2: do something because I had a body clock that was
30:04
Speaker 2: around four hours and maybe it was hot conditions. It
30:06
Speaker 2: goes down to 345. Maybe it's cool conditions. It goes
30:09
Speaker 2: up to 415, but that's the body clock. The Warriors
30:13
Speaker 2: in this series had a body clock of five games.
30:18
Speaker 2: That's what they had left. They had five games and
30:22
Speaker 2: the thing that pushed them into having to play more games,
30:26
Speaker 2: I think that was just beyond what they had budgeted.
30:29
Speaker 2: given what they had. And that's a lot of the story.
30:33
Speaker 2: That doesn't include the great things the Cavs did, but
30:35
Speaker 2: the story of the Warriors' failure was that story.
30:38
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I will point out, because Draymond got game four.
30:42
Speaker 1: Who did he kick into nuts in game four? LeBron.
30:45
Speaker 1: It was LeBron. That's right. It was LeBron he kicked
30:48
Speaker 1: into nuts in game four. They got their asses kicked
30:52
Speaker 1: in game five. Like, I don't know if they were
30:54
Speaker 1: simply a Draymond away. They lost that game by 15 points. Like,
30:59
Speaker 1: the idea that Draymond getting suspended cost them the finals.
31:04
Speaker 1: You're right. It certainly made it a bit more difficult. Like,
31:07
Speaker 1: maybe it didn't add another mile, but it definitely made
31:10
Speaker 1: that last mile a bit more uphill than they had
31:13
Speaker 1: planned on it being. Like, the idea that the Cavs
31:16
Speaker 1: could win that, I don't think was that shocking because
31:19
Speaker 1: I feel like by now, LeBron is... LeBron has shaken
31:23
Speaker 1: off all the 2011, and we see him as a dude...
31:26
Speaker 1: they can bring it. We give him all the credit
31:28
Speaker 1: in the world for them winning two games the year before,
31:30
Speaker 1: just by going up to one, like he's a guy
31:33
Speaker 1: that you could expect to rise up in a moment.
31:36
Speaker 1: And God damn, the last three games of that series,
31:38
Speaker 1: LeBron just decided I'm, I'm, I'm I'm going to another life.
31:41
Speaker 1: How about you? Like, this is where I'm going. And
31:44
Speaker 1: that and that gets it to game six. They got
31:46
Speaker 1: him back at home. And that's to me, Steph getting
31:49
Speaker 1: ejected in game six, even though the game was already over.
31:53
Speaker 1: But the fact that he had that reaction over that
31:55
Speaker 1: call at the end, which was hilarious because he threw
31:57
Speaker 1: his mouthpiece. We had never really seen him be that
31:59
Speaker 1: bad before. Like there was a there was an element
32:02
Speaker 1: of your little brother is getting mad here and everybody
32:04
Speaker 1: thinks it's cute and adorable. But in a way, it
32:07
Speaker 1: looked to me like, oh, we've got a crack here
32:09
Speaker 1: because they're still coming back to have game seven at home.
32:12
Speaker 1: But right there was like there's a feeling like, oh,
32:14
Speaker 1: wait a minute. They've wobbled.
32:17
Speaker 2: And Aisha had some infamous tweet about the rest.
32:20
Speaker 1: That's right. She said the rest for fixing the gate.
32:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, I remember that. And my main memory of that
32:26
Speaker 2: game wasn't so much the refs. It was just LeBron
32:28
Speaker 2: controlling it at the end. And people have their arguments
32:31
Speaker 2: about how clutch he is, how not clutch he is.
32:34
Speaker 2: There are ways to be clutch that aren't shooting, and
32:37
Speaker 2: we can forget about that sometimes. And he was just
32:40
Speaker 2: controlling those guys like pieces on a chessboard, moving Tristan
32:44
Speaker 2: Thompson to do lobs at the right moments, and really
32:49
Speaker 2: just had the defense figured out in that game. But yeah,
32:53
Speaker 2: there was a crack.
32:55
Speaker 1: Let me stop you right there because I want to
32:57
Speaker 1: touch on this before I forget. And this is from
32:59
Speaker 1: watching it up close. To watch the mastery of a
33:05
Speaker 1: 2016 LeBron James running offense, what was that like from
33:08
Speaker 1: your chair? It was.
33:13
Speaker 2: I'm trying to recall it, because it is the most
33:17
Speaker 2: vivid aspect of that game to me. He had that
33:22
Speaker 2: slow manipulation of the defense that when he's on... It's
33:28
Speaker 2: like there's just nothing that can be done about it.
33:31
Speaker 2: And the way that another player can be crowded and
33:33
Speaker 2: the way that Jalen Brunson, you can get the ball
33:36
Speaker 2: out of his hands. Steph's way of dealing with it
33:38
Speaker 2: was just to work off the ball. But it was
33:41
Speaker 2: that tic-tac-toe, if you do this, I do that basketball genius.
33:46
Speaker 2: And in person, I'm sure it comes across when you're
33:48
Speaker 2: watching on TV as well. But I had that baseline
33:52
Speaker 2: view that just gives you a better sense of that
33:54
Speaker 2: lateral perspective. And it really felt to me like he
33:59
Speaker 2: was mentally puppeteering the other Cavs. And I mentioned Tristan
34:03
Speaker 2: Thompson because that's the sort of player that you would
34:05
Speaker 2: do that with. I'm looking at the box score and
34:09
Speaker 2: Tristan was six of six. I'd have to go back
34:12
Speaker 2: and check out what went into that.
34:15
Speaker 1: That shot chart looked like six green O's on top
34:18
Speaker 1: of each other, I bet.
34:20
Speaker 2: I would bet as well. I'd have to go back
34:22
Speaker 2: and see it and see why. Tristan has a 96.6%
34:26
Speaker 2: true shooting. I'd assume that some free throws might have
34:31
Speaker 2: rimmed out right there, or at least one of them.
34:33
Speaker 2: But that's what it felt like. It just felt like control,
34:37
Speaker 2: is what I would say. Other players, they just do
34:39
Speaker 2: great things. They do brilliant things. LeBron was... in charge
34:45
Speaker 2: of the team in a way that's different from the
34:47
Speaker 2: Warriors and Steph is amazing and arguably the best offensive
34:51
Speaker 2: player of all time, but it almost comes sporadically or
34:56
Speaker 2: not in a way that's planned or he's off the
34:58
Speaker 2: ball and it's more of a team effort and he
35:01
Speaker 2: infuses it into the team. LeBron, it's I'm the puppet master.
35:06
Speaker 2: These are the puppets. You go here.
35:08
Speaker 1: This happens.
35:10
Speaker 2: I go here.
35:10
Speaker 1: That happens.
35:11
Speaker 2: And that was the overwhelming sense I had from watching
35:14
Speaker 2: it in person.
35:14
Speaker 1: Yeah. And as you said, I hated to cut you
35:16
Speaker 1: off before that. But yeah, the Warriors, the Warriors crack
35:19
Speaker 1: and now take this to game seven at home, which
35:22
Speaker 1: is at least for my money, one of the great
35:24
Speaker 1: basketball games of all time. Like this is where we
35:26
Speaker 1: start talking about the series was better than the sum
35:29
Speaker 1: of the games. Basically, it was six blowouts. And then
35:33
Speaker 1: the 15th round was a classic.
35:35
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I thought the two games in Cleveland leading
35:41
Speaker 2: up to it, I thought were both great games, even
35:43
Speaker 2: if they didn't end close. I thought the one the
35:47
Speaker 2: Warriors won before Draymond kicked LeBron in the nuts was
35:50
Speaker 2: a great game, and I thought that the one the
35:52
Speaker 2: Cavs won, game six, was a great game. And in
35:55
Speaker 2: some ways, this is a strange meta commentary on the
35:58
Speaker 2: whole thing, I became disgusted when I watched the game
36:01
Speaker 2: on TV years later because I felt like ESPN, ABC
36:05
Speaker 2: had not done a good job conveying the gravitas that
36:10
Speaker 2: I was there for that. I remember before that game six,
36:13
Speaker 2: they play that in the air of the night, Phil
36:15
Speaker 2: Collins song for Cavs games. And I was watching the
36:18
Speaker 2: concession years belt out the lyrics at full volume. And
36:22
Speaker 2: I'm just getting goosebumps and you feel the energy.
36:26
Speaker 1: This is big.
36:27
Speaker 2: And then you watch what ABC did with it. And
36:30
Speaker 2: to be clear, I think, they're doing a really good
36:31
Speaker 2: job with this 2026 finals, but there was a cheapness
36:36
Speaker 2: to the production is what I will say about it.
36:39
Speaker 2: I think they tried to incorporate the roots into it
36:41
Speaker 2: in a way that didn't really work. Anyway, I'm getting distracted. Yes.
36:45
Speaker 2: Game seven, game seven. That was the epic one. It
36:49
Speaker 2: was a game as great as it was ugly. And boy,
36:53
Speaker 2: The tension in that building in old Oracle, oh, you
36:57
Speaker 2: could just feel it, Bobani.
36:59
Speaker 1: The stakes are so high at this point, right? Because
37:03
Speaker 1: I contend that those Warriors ultimately ruined the regular season
37:07
Speaker 1: because if 73 wins doesn't mean you're a champion, then
37:09
Speaker 1: what does any of this stuff matter, right? There's LeBron
37:12
Speaker 1: trying to win the championship in Cleveland. There's also the
37:16
Speaker 1: guy we haven't talked about that much in this, which
37:18
Speaker 1: is Kyrie Irving. Um, who's, I mean, he's been through
37:21
Speaker 1: some things while he's been on that team. Like he's
37:23
Speaker 1: only been there five years, but God, they were awful
37:26
Speaker 1: for the first stretch of this. He thinks it's going
37:28
Speaker 1: to be his team. Then they bring in LeBron, but
37:30
Speaker 1: you are still the guy that gets to take all
37:32
Speaker 1: the shots. Amen. They needed him in that game as
37:34
Speaker 1: much as they ever needed a guy. to be there.
37:38
Speaker 1: And it's a slug fest, man. And then also Steph
37:40
Speaker 1: Curry playing on a bad leg. Nobody wants to hear it.
37:43
Speaker 1: He doesn't want to be the one to have anything
37:46
Speaker 1: to say about it, but they're on the verge of
37:47
Speaker 1: what is one of the all time collapses in the
37:50
Speaker 1: history of the NBA.
37:52
Speaker 2: And I think a lot of that energy, that negative
37:56
Speaker 2: energy towards Steph has almost been forgotten about because he
37:59
Speaker 2: validated himself in 2022 against the Celtics. And now people
38:05
Speaker 2: top 10, everything. There was a lot of resentment of
38:09
Speaker 2: the rise of Steph and skepticism of the rise of
38:13
Speaker 2: Steph and feeling that this was a restoration of order
38:18
Speaker 2: if LeBron beat him and an exposing of fraudulence. To
38:23
Speaker 2: put it on top of that, he was getting crushed
38:25
Speaker 2: on all kinds of levels. For his shoes, for instance,
38:27
Speaker 2: became a huge talking point in that series, Bomani. And
38:33
Speaker 2: it became the death of the Under Armour Steph Curry brand.
38:38
Speaker 2: You could just mark it down at that exact point.
38:40
Speaker 2: It was just all falling down. If you were in
38:43
Speaker 2: that building and you were a Steph Curry fan, you
38:46
Speaker 2: could feel like a lot was on the line for him.
38:49
Speaker 2: And as he was struggling, it had that poignant, that poem,
38:55
Speaker 2: Casey at the Bat, that feeling the mighty Casey has
38:58
Speaker 2: struck out. You could feel it in the building and
39:01
Speaker 2: it was heavy.
39:02
Speaker 1: Well, it also reminds me that game six to me
39:04
Speaker 1: was the first moment that lebron really betrayed the fact
39:08
Speaker 1: that it was personal for him right like he had
39:10
Speaker 1: a moment with a stare down to steph and steph
39:12
Speaker 1: looked at him and laughed because steph has this drake-like
39:16
Speaker 1: quality and i don't mean this in a bad way
39:17
Speaker 1: because normally i would if i was making a comparison
39:20
Speaker 1: to drake but in the sense that when meek mill
39:24
Speaker 1: and drake were in that battle Meek couldn't do all
39:26
Speaker 1: that tough guy shit with Drake because like, ooh, you're
39:28
Speaker 1: tougher than Drake. Okay, you're really impressing us. Like that
39:32
Speaker 1: doesn't work. Staring down Steph Curry. nobody's impressed by that, right? Like,
39:38
Speaker 1: nobody's going there. But there was a moment where you
39:40
Speaker 1: saw LeBron was, he realized that the little homie is
39:43
Speaker 1: not the little homie anymore, right? Like, this is a
39:47
Speaker 1: rival now. And whatever buddy-buddiness that may have been and
39:50
Speaker 1: how cool he thought it was and, oh, wait, when
39:52
Speaker 1: he was doing that shit at Davidson, man, didn't none
39:55
Speaker 1: of that matter. And that became the next level. And
39:57
Speaker 1: for the first time, we were raising the question as
40:00
Speaker 1: to whether or not somebody was better at basketball than
40:02
Speaker 1: LeBron James. And of all people, it was that guy.
40:06
Speaker 2: Well, and it was bigger than that because this wasn't just, oh,
40:09
Speaker 2: a Tim Duncan type person where you're saying, oh, he
40:12
Speaker 2: brings more to the table. For argument's sake, he brings
40:16
Speaker 2: more to the table than you do. So maybe you're
40:19
Speaker 2: one or he's 1A or maybe he's surpassed you, but
40:23
Speaker 2: he's not really a force in the culture. Steph mania
40:26
Speaker 2: was like Beatles mania. It was crazy that season. You'd
40:30
Speaker 2: go early to the games on the road. There are
40:32
Speaker 2: thousands of people just watching this guy play. warm up
40:37
Speaker 2: under armor was selling shoes, which they haven't been able
40:39
Speaker 2: to do since. I don't think I, it was just
40:44
Speaker 2: completely so much bigger than this guy might be better
40:49
Speaker 2: at basketball. It's also the country. They like him better
40:52
Speaker 2: than you. They're the kids like him better than you.
40:56
Speaker 2: He's more a face of the league than you are.
40:59
Speaker 2: And I mean, he could have said, whatever, when asked
41:04
Speaker 2: about it, about not resenting it, but players resent that
41:06
Speaker 2: sort of thing if they're at the top, if they're
41:09
Speaker 2: in the top tier, generally speaking. The irony is that
41:12
Speaker 2: I don't know if Steph enjoyed all aspects of being
41:14
Speaker 2: number one. And that's a funny subplot to this whole thing.
41:18
Speaker 2: I think for LeBron, it was very important to be
41:23
Speaker 2: the face of the league and he might've just gotten
41:27
Speaker 2: used to it. It might've been anchoring at a certain
41:30
Speaker 2: point because it was just known But Steph, it was
41:34
Speaker 2: never supposed to go that way. He was never supposed
41:36
Speaker 2: to become as famous as he became. And even if
41:39
Speaker 2: he was competitive and wanted to win as much as
41:41
Speaker 2: humanly possible and enjoyed winning, it was uncomfortable for him
41:46
Speaker 2: in those years. Just people following his family in his car.
41:51
Speaker 2: People jumped, I was at training camps, people jumped out
41:53
Speaker 2: of the bushes to get autographs. He wasn't dealing with
41:56
Speaker 2: it well, and that might help explain a little bit
41:59
Speaker 2: of what happened afterwards, why he was... open to Kevin
42:02
Speaker 2: Durant coming to the warriors and sharing some of the spotlight.
42:06
Speaker 1: I feel like game seven for me has three plays
42:10
Speaker 1: that I will always remember. Two of them are obvious.
42:15
Speaker 1: One of them is make sure one, two, four, actually
42:21
Speaker 1: my fault. One of them. And I can't even remember.
42:25
Speaker 2: I just want to, does Festus Azili make your list?
42:31
Speaker 1: Oh, like Black Festus?
42:35
Speaker 2: That's not what I call it. I'm wondering if he
42:39
Speaker 2: is in your top four plays, because he's in my
42:41
Speaker 2: top four plays. Oh, yeah. No, no.
42:42
Speaker 1: He was not in my four. My bad. I thought
42:43
Speaker 1: I was like, Festus, what are we saying about him?
42:45
Speaker 1: I forgot about him. So, chronologically, I don't have these,
42:48
Speaker 1: but I'll give you the four. One is Steph kind of... Shit,
42:55
Speaker 1: it might be five. Steph getting clamped up by Kevin Love. Right?
42:59
Speaker 1: There's that. Where I talk about the Warriors having lapses
43:03
Speaker 1: of attention. Steph throwing the ball away with that crazy
43:06
Speaker 1: behind the back pass.
43:08
Speaker 2: Yeah.
43:10
Speaker 1: Obviously, Kyrie hunting Steph repeatedly and then getting switched on
43:14
Speaker 1: to him to make that bucket. Yeah. The one that forever,
43:20
Speaker 1: the block, right? LeBron hawking Andre Iguodala down and pinning
43:25
Speaker 1: his shot. And the fifth for me, In Chapel Hill,
43:29
Speaker 1: they talk about in the 98 Carolina Duke game at
43:31
Speaker 1: the Dean Dome, the tip dunk that wasn't, which is
43:33
Speaker 1: this unreal tip dunk that Vince Carter missed. But if
43:37
Speaker 1: he had made, it would have been the greatest dunk
43:38
Speaker 1: of all time. After this game is wrapped up, LeBron
43:42
Speaker 1: went to put an exclamation point on that where I
43:44
Speaker 1: swear I have never seen anybody in a game, let
43:47
Speaker 1: alone at the end of the fourth quarter, higher above
43:50
Speaker 1: the rim than he was. Draymond fouled him. He missed it.
43:53
Speaker 1: I will never understand how he did not break his
43:56
Speaker 1: arm Bracing his fall. But that is the one I
43:58
Speaker 1: will always remember, whether he made it or not, is
44:01
Speaker 1: I can't believe how high up he got. Like, that
44:03
Speaker 1: was him saying, this shit is over. I just did
44:06
Speaker 1: the impossible. But it was that late in that game
44:10
Speaker 1: just had a run of moments.
44:12
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, that one, all of those, very memorable.
44:16
Speaker 2: I added the Azealy one because I think from the Warriors' perspective,
44:20
Speaker 2: that's when things got a little bit unraveled. When Azealy
44:24
Speaker 2: was in there, He wasn't exactly healthy. A lot of
44:27
Speaker 2: Warriors fans were tearing their hair out about it. And
44:30
Speaker 2: LeBron craftily baited him into one of those pump fake
44:35
Speaker 2: fall on the guy fouls. And that was a turning
44:38
Speaker 2: point where it looked at that point in the game,
44:40
Speaker 2: like the Warriors might open up a lead and start
44:43
Speaker 2: gaining their own momentum. But LeBron was just too crafty,
44:48
Speaker 2: too wise for that sort of, uh, for somebody who
44:50
Speaker 2: was so inexperienced and rusty. But yeah, those moments were huge.
44:57
Speaker 2: I'm trying to think if there are any others that
44:58
Speaker 2: particularly come to mind. I think the Steph-Kevin Love moment
45:02
Speaker 2: was something that he learned from. And you saw evidence
45:05
Speaker 2: of that in the 2022 finals because Love played him
45:10
Speaker 2: for the three-point shot. He was selling out completely for that.
45:15
Speaker 2: And there might've been an element where Steph wasn't totally right,
45:18
Speaker 2: but he also wasn't taking what was given. And there
45:22
Speaker 2: was a play, 2022 finals, the game in Boston that
45:27
Speaker 2: the Warriors had to have, game four towards the end, where, man,
45:30
Speaker 2: what was the name of that big, that athletic big
45:33
Speaker 2: the Celtics had at that time?
45:35
Speaker 1: 2022, Joe, Robert Williams. Yeah, yeah, Robert Williams, yeah.
45:41
Speaker 2: Where Robert Williams was switched on to Steph, and they
45:45
Speaker 2: were doing the dancing thing, on the exterior out there.
45:49
Speaker 2: And it was very similar to the Kevin Love play,
45:52
Speaker 2: but this time Steph just took what was given and
45:55
Speaker 2: he just went in the paint and did a floater.
45:58
Speaker 2: I think that's probably one of the regrets that he
46:00
Speaker 2: lived with following that finals was in that situation, not
46:05
Speaker 2: just taking what was there and trying to go hero
46:08
Speaker 2: ball because that contributed to what lost.
46:11
Speaker 1: Let me tell you this about the Warriors, which you
46:13
Speaker 1: can't forget. They really had only one guy play a
46:16
Speaker 1: really good game in Game 7, and that was Draymond Green,
46:20
Speaker 1: who put up 32 on 15 shots in that game.
46:25
Speaker 2: Ooh, another memory. He had another one towards the end
46:28
Speaker 2: that rattled in and out, another one of those threes.
46:31
Speaker 2: What would have brought it to 41 might have settled
46:33
Speaker 2: the finals for them as well. Yeah. Yeah, that was crazy.
46:39
Speaker 2: I think it was his second 37-point game in that
46:42
Speaker 2: playoff run, which to me, The modern Draymond Greenwatcher would
46:46
Speaker 2: be quite astounding as a staff. That was a different
46:51
Speaker 2: guy back then, Omani.
46:52
Speaker 1: It was, and I'll tell you what I'll also remember
46:55
Speaker 1: about that forever. You wound up writing a story, and
46:57
Speaker 1: I think it's okay to say this in public as
46:59
Speaker 1: it's been so long, but basically your editor was like,
47:02
Speaker 1: need everything you got on Draymond.
47:04
Speaker 2: Oh, my God, yeah.
47:05
Speaker 1: Oh, okay. And he wrote the Draymond story, and it
47:08
Speaker 1: had a quote in it, and I'll have to do
47:10
Speaker 1: the full quote, and I will, and my mama's listening,
47:12
Speaker 1: but understand that I'm not the one who said it,
47:14
Speaker 1: but this was the quote. And the quote from an
47:17
Speaker 1: unnamed source that, I mean, I think I know who
47:20
Speaker 1: said it, was very simple. Yeah, everything they say about Draymond,
47:25
Speaker 1: they had their chance, and they all play like pussies.
47:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, I felt bad.
47:30
Speaker 1: Except for him.
47:31
Speaker 2: I tried to get that quote pulled. and they didn't
47:35
Speaker 2: pull it there's a tough dynamic when you're writing a
47:38
Speaker 2: rough draft and you're doing it for a bigger institution
47:41
Speaker 2: not to make excuses for myself but you go yeah
47:44
Speaker 2: that was a little too hard maybe we can pull
47:45
Speaker 2: back on that and they go never.
47:47
Speaker 1: No chance i never would have given you that back
47:49
Speaker 1: there's no circumstance under which i would have given you
47:51
Speaker 1: that one back no.
47:52
Speaker 2: No no my god that that i had to do
47:54
Speaker 2: a lot of damage control after that one that was
47:57
Speaker 2: that that quote Made a lot of trouble for me interpersonally.
48:02
Speaker 1: See, I don't understand why it made trouble for you.
48:05
Speaker 1: You ain't the one that said it.
48:07
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I don't know. It was just, for whatever reason,
48:11
Speaker 2: certain things are a little more provocative than other things.
48:15
Speaker 2: And I will say this. There was something very strange
48:19
Speaker 2: from the coaching staff in the aftermath of that game.
48:23
Speaker 2: Coaches are so weird. All coaches, in my experience of
48:27
Speaker 2: the NBA... At some level, they love their team, and
48:31
Speaker 2: at some level, they hate their team. I'll give an
48:33
Speaker 2: example that I think he's cool with giving. I think
48:35
Speaker 2: I wrote it, but when the Warriors won the Western
48:38
Speaker 2: Conference Finals in 2015, I was talking to Steve Kerr afterwards,
48:42
Speaker 2: and he was by the media catering, not the media catering,
48:46
Speaker 2: but the team catering, Chipotle or whatever, just trying to eat.
48:50
Speaker 2: Is there hungry after this stuff? And he's all excited.
48:54
Speaker 2: He's saying, Western Conference Finals is a big deal. He's
48:56
Speaker 2: all happy. And then he just flashes into anger and
49:00
Speaker 2: he goes, yeah, Steph and Clay could just stop doing.
49:04
Speaker 2: And he's just pantomimes like dribbling all crazy. This shit
49:07
Speaker 2: like that's they feel this way about it where they're
49:10
Speaker 2: so frustrated that these guys aren't doing the things that
49:13
Speaker 2: they want them to do. And there is a sense
49:15
Speaker 2: from the coaching staff back then that the Warriors were
49:18
Speaker 2: being a little bit Icarus. And I don't completely know
49:23
Speaker 2: what those things were or what the frustrations were, but
49:27
Speaker 2: there was a sense after what happened, the coaches were
49:30
Speaker 2: sad about it, but there was also a sense of,
49:32
Speaker 2: you see? And that's what coaches feel. They want to
49:36
Speaker 2: win so badly, but there's also a sense after they lose,
49:40
Speaker 2: of almost a sick validation of, I told you, I
49:45
Speaker 2: told you not to do that. I told you not
49:47
Speaker 2: to do the thing that you did and you did
49:49
Speaker 2: it and you see what happened. And I didn't just
49:52
Speaker 2: get that sense from one coach. I got that sense
49:55
Speaker 2: from the coaches.
49:58
Speaker 1: After that one.
49:59
Speaker 2: And I still don't exactly know what the fixation was,
50:03
Speaker 2: but that was something in the aftermath.
50:06
Speaker 1: And on the LeBron side, He gave Cleveland the proverbial
50:10
Speaker 1: $ 4 million ring. Oh yeah. As close to all is
50:15
Speaker 1: forgiven could ever be possible. He won them that championship.
50:20
Speaker 1: That was, that was the only reason to go back
50:23
Speaker 1: was to make that come as close to making that
50:24
Speaker 1: one thing right as he possibly could. And he did it.
50:28
Speaker 2: Oh yeah. And it's the best argument he has in
50:31
Speaker 2: this goat debate where I think you and I are,
50:35
Speaker 2: on the Jordan side of that particular debate, but it's
50:38
Speaker 2: the best piece he has. It's the best chip that
50:41
Speaker 2: he has. The best argument is that winning a championship
50:44
Speaker 2: for Cleveland, Ohio just counts an order of magnitude more
50:48
Speaker 2: than other championships.
50:49
Speaker 1: It feels different.
50:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a bigger get. That even if the Chicago
50:54
Speaker 2: Bulls were a will-be-gone franchise before Mike showed up, there's
50:58
Speaker 2: something about winning in Cleveland that feels impossible in the
51:02
Speaker 2: American sports culture. And.
51:05
Speaker 1: That's fair.
51:06
Speaker 2: That's a fair perspective. Yeah.
51:07
Speaker 1: Like I remember the look on his face about that one.
51:10
Speaker 1: Like I was there for the second when he won
51:12
Speaker 1: the second championship in Miami. Like I was there. The
51:15
Speaker 1: emotion that he had about winning this one in Cleveland
51:18
Speaker 1: was a completely different animal. Like I felt like the
51:22
Speaker 1: Miami stuff was just as much about getting him off
51:25
Speaker 1: his back as much as anything else. This one was
51:28
Speaker 1: bigger than him. Like, I don't think for him or
51:31
Speaker 1: for most people that the Miami championships were bigger than him.
51:34
Speaker 1: Even though it's a franchise, it was their third ever, da-da-da,
51:36
Speaker 1: all that stuff. That one in Cleveland was so much
51:39
Speaker 1: bigger than him, right? Like, it felt... I don't think
51:43
Speaker 1: any championship has ever felt more like someone did it
51:46
Speaker 1: in service of others in the way that that one
51:49
Speaker 1: kind of felt. Yeah, I would agree.
51:52
Speaker 2: And it had these other aspects that we were talking about, too,
51:55
Speaker 2: where it has the more... let's say, endearing aspect of
52:00
Speaker 2: it being for Ohio and the people out there. But
52:03
Speaker 2: there is this other aspect of the corporate side where
52:05
Speaker 2: Lynn Merritt, big time Nike executive is there and they're
52:08
Speaker 2: getting that Nike shirt on LeBron immediately. And there is
52:12
Speaker 2: a sense of we killed Under Armour. We killed Steph.
52:14
Speaker 1: We did it. We did it.
52:17
Speaker 2: We, you know, the invading force, we've repelled them. And
52:20
Speaker 2: the other memory I have of the whole thing, there's
52:24
Speaker 2: something so weird about when you win on somebody else's court,
52:30
Speaker 2: it's the thing that's most similar to old like Mongol
52:36
Speaker 2: invasion and the debauchery and the decadence. They go to
52:39
Speaker 2: the nightclub afterwards. They pursue the hottest women in the city.
52:43
Speaker 2: And I just remember, and it happened both ways because
52:47
Speaker 2: the Warriors won it in Cleveland before. And Steph said
52:52
Speaker 2: something about the locker room still smelling like champagne or
52:54
Speaker 2: something like that. And that got Cleveland fans bent out
52:58
Speaker 2: of shape. That got them bent out of shape in
53:00
Speaker 2: this kind of primal, visceral way. And then I saw
53:05
Speaker 2: that when the Cavs won it and LeBron's celebrating. And
53:08
Speaker 2: I just remember their sneakers making this sound, this sticky
53:13
Speaker 2: sound on the floor as they're tracking champagne all over
53:17
Speaker 2: the Oracle court. And yeah, it's this... When you win
53:22
Speaker 2: it on somebody else's court, there's this almost... glorious humiliation
53:27
Speaker 2: on behalf of the victor and that's a bit of
53:30
Speaker 2: a digression but now i'm just free associating these memories
53:33
Speaker 2: as we're going back a decade.
53:34
Speaker 1: Dude you do a whole trophy presentation in front of
53:37
Speaker 1: like it's actually a wonder those things don't go worse
53:40
Speaker 1: that people don't just stick around to boo and throw things.
53:45
Speaker 2: I i've been at a few of those i my
53:48
Speaker 2: dad bought now it's a topic the price of tickets
53:51
Speaker 2: at Madison Square Garden, my dad bought some scalp tickets
53:54
Speaker 2: because we were visiting family in 1999. And I was
53:57
Speaker 2: there at game five when Sprewell missed the shot. And man,
54:01
Speaker 2: the ill feeling, the New York as somebody from San Diego,
54:06
Speaker 2: not really being acquainted with that kind of brusqueness in
54:11
Speaker 2: that kind of moment was something to behold for a
54:15
Speaker 2: young man, I would say.
54:15
Speaker 1: Yeah. Hey, man. Ethan Strauss. Check out his newsletter, House
54:20
Speaker 1: of Strauss. Google it up. I pay money for it.
54:23
Speaker 1: It wouldn't be the worst idea if you did, too.
54:25
Speaker 1: My brother, I appreciate you.
54:27
Speaker 2: Thanks so much for having me, Bomani.
54:29
Speaker 1: Yes, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, thanks so much for joining
54:31
Speaker 1: us here on The Right Time. We do this a
54:33
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54:35
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54:50
Speaker 1: Take it easy.