Latest / The Rooted Family / Ep 14 | How We Afford a Family of 9 (Part 1: The Mindset That Changed Everything)

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Ep 14 | How We Afford a Family of 9 (Part 1: The Mindset That Changed Everything) · The Rooted Family

• Christian Cornish: Can I ask you something? When was the last time you actually felt at peace? Not just productive, not just caught up, but settled. Because most of us aren't lacking desire for a slower, deeper life, we're just stuck in the busyness that keeps us rushing right past it. And I think that's why having kids young changed us so much. Like instead of spending our early years trying to build this picture perfect lifestyle, we were suddenly responsible for little people depending on us. And that forced us to grow up, become more intentional, and just really learn stewardship early on. And that trust is what allowed us to start thinking differently. Instead of asking, can we afford this? We started asking a better question and that's how can we make this work? Such a powerful question because it really opens your mind instead of living where I see a lot of believers living with like a scarcity mentality where they just think most people assume that the more kids you have, the harder your life gets financially. more mouths to feed, more clothes to buy, bigger house, bigger grocery bill. It all is stressful, right? And I ⁓ do understand that. Those are valid thoughts to have when you don't have children yet, or maybe you just have like one. And I think that's important because we're not just managing our money in those moments. We're shaping the atmosphere our children grow up in. They're watching whether we respond to financial pressure I think for most of us, we have to get more clear on what our priorities and are. that plays into our finances because ⁓ like we just said earlier, we ⁓ all are making choices of where to put our money. ⁓ And whether you make... That's why we created the Slow and Savor Society. It's a snail mail club. Yes, it comes straight to your mailbox. It's a simple, tangible way to slow down each month with a piece of art, a cozy recipe, and a letter designed to help you reconnect with what actually ⁓ God, with your family, and with your own soul. your life has felt full, But we have seven kids and for most of our marriage, we've been a one income family. And it's really only in last few years that that income even got up to six figures. So if you're doing the math from the outside, you probably think, yeah, there's no way that adds up. here's what's interesting. We've never really felt like our kids ⁓ the thing that were making life financially hard. with fear or with faith, peace, and intentionality. that this is all we have and almost forgetting that our God is a God of abundance, that he owns all the cattle on the hill and that if he wanted to give us more, he could. I absolutely agree with you on that because there's this mentality I see people also get into in a similar way of a very small amount or you make a very large amount, we're still all making choices. We may not have as many choices as someone who has a lot more income than us, but we still are making choices. Like we can choose if we're going to give our kids brand new technology every year. We can choose if our kids are going to get the latest and greatest with their toys and clothes or the schools or anything. can choose and kids are instead of just thinking that this is how life is always going to be if you're living paycheck to paycheck or it's really tight, asking yourself In fact, a lot of ways we feel like we've had more freedom than a lot of families we know with fewer kids. And I know that sounds confusing or maybe even a little bit unbelievable. Yeah. today we want to kind of peel back the curtain and talk about this honestly, not how we've made it work as a family of nine. Yes, we do have seven kids, ⁓ but way we think about money that has completely changed the game for us, because this isn't really about having a big family. ⁓ but not meaningful. This is your invitation to begin again. You can learn more or join us at legacyrootsco.com slash Mel Club. And right now, if you use Code Podcast, you'll get 50 % off your first month so you can try it out. Now back to the episode. What does it look like to make a plan to make this possible or strategize? Maybe it's not today, but maybe it's in the next year or two. But you and I have never really taken anything off the table just because we can't afford it right now. We're actually really big about not telling the kids that we can't afford something because you and I are so intentional with our finances that we take into so many other considerations besides the money, whether we choose to I'm stuck it always this way You know ⁓ just get in this rut mm-hmm and I do think it's a value of having a big family it's forced us to be resourceful Totally like we have to eat So how do we eat on a budget? Uh-huh? definitely not the reason we don't make it financially. It usually comes down to our choices. think you're right. think actually you can also have the opposite mentality. Our kids are what help us live a life of abundance because we want to have the resources to give them opportunities. Yeah. We want to This is about the question we've asked from the very beginning. Are kids actually expensive or have we just built a lifestyle that makes them feel that way? to make it work. You know, we take into consideration our time, our energy. It's not just a financial decision usually. And so I also think that when you have a more open mind around your finances, you also start to realize that everything is a choice. And when you put money towards one thing, it does take finances and resources from another thing. And we all are choosing where to put our money. and feed all these people. Yeah. ⁓ there have been seasons where we've been paycheck paycheck and really trying to just get by and instead of just almost surrendering to that and this is going to be how it always is because we're just a big family. You know, we've always thought to ourselves, OK, how can we make more? What can we do to be creative with our income to ⁓ find ⁓ different opportunities that ⁓ Also invite them in like we've talked about and give them that opportunity to learn. I'm excited to see our kids grow up because I love seeing them make good decisions with the money they make. learning to save, learning to give, learning to prioritize and say, I only have X amount. Some of us choose to have vacations and that's a priority. Some of us choose to have lots of subscriptions. That's a priority. Or some choose to have, you know, a membership to a gym or they want to upgrade the furniture in their house. You know, we all are choosing. Some of us choose car payments because we want a brand new vehicle. So I think it's not about, can you not afford this? Yeah, allow us to give our children more than this current situation. And not having a scarcity mentality allows you to also say, how am I investing what we do have? And some people may hear that and say investing as in 401k retirement. that's not what I mean. I mean, ⁓ like we've how do we invest into our children's So I love that we're talking about this episode because when we think about the rooted family or believers who want to be rooted in their faith in Christ, I really believe there is a correlation between and financial stewardship. I love what you said there about stewardship. And I think at the end of this episode, we're going to all come back to that word ⁓ and this is about the concept. So I'm gonna really think about what I choose to spend it on. see that with our older kids and I'm really proud of them for that. And I know they've learned that because that's the way we approach life. ⁓ so they're watching us in this area. And so I see that as a great opportunity to put stewards into the world. And that's really exciting. Totally. Yeah, ⁓ it's about how you think about money and schooling and education. How do we invest into building sustainable rhythms in our life? How do we invest into bringing peace into our home? you and I are really big about equipping our kids. Whether it's equipping them with a life skill, with hobbies, different creative skills. And so you and I look at even ⁓ growing and learning and education. ⁓ It's, you going to choose to put your resources there? That's a really great thought. you also said something else I want to emphasize there about with our children, because we do want them to grow up to be rooted people. We don't want them to ⁓ about money. And I think we've both seen firsthand with all of our children. They start to take on the anxieties that you have and really start to see it. of stewardship and how important it is, especially as believers, that we have the mentality that God wants us to have around being really good stewards. that word is not one we talk about a lot. And I think we're going to talk in this episode a lot about how we came to learn about that word and what it means for us to ⁓ What kind of mindset can you pass down to your children? Are we teaching our children to be good stewards with what they are given? Or are we going to act like the world is ending tomorrow? I think some people can be so extreme and cling so much to what they have that they don't live generously, they don't live Like I start to see it now in our 12 year old and you you kind of see it in other kids in little pieces here or there. Yeah. so we never say to them, Oh, sorry. we just can't afford that unless it's like something silly. the, for a while the kids. Yeah. Like, or like even beyond that, like a cyber truck, or something like, yeah, I don't have money for that. Like I can be, I can jokingly be honest about that. Yeah. But. as a form of investment. so where some people ⁓ not put their money in this direction, ⁓ and I aren't the people that are going to go drop 10 grand, at least right now on Disney World. But we will very much ⁓ a good number on investing in the growth of our family in maybe non-tangible ways. because steward our finances and how we really have gotten to that point together. Yeah, I think that maybe the misconception around a big family is that big families are just trying to make it in today's society, especially in our economy. Or we might think like living in financial chaos is just normal, especially with a lot of mouths to feed. But I think no matter what the family size is, whether you have one kid or you have 15 kids, faithfully, they don't dream big because they don't believe at the end of the day, they don't believe God can do it. They don't believe that God is who he says he is, a God of abundance. And so I know for you and I, we want our kids to really be big faith with their finances, big faith with what God has given to them and how they can steward it. can see how that's going to exponentially help us in the ⁓ run, It's so funny because the kids will frequently ask if, mom, are we millionaires? And do know how I always respond? Yes, ⁓ it's so beautiful. I always say, we are in my Because is truly our mentality. ⁓ I wouldn't tell a kid, sorry, we can't do dance lessons because we can't afford it. Exactly. We would say, hey, you know, we worked on the budget already and so we're not able to add that in right now. But let's get back to that and talk about that later. See how we can make it work next time. ⁓ we've even had the discussion, you know, Azalea and I recently talked about joining the dance team. And of there's extra finances when it comes to joining the dance team. I think that there is always a way to live in peace with your money and you don't have to be making a ton of money to do that. I think like you said, it really comes down to the mindset how do we steward what God has blessed us with well so that we're not living in chaos. There are definitely seasons of stress, which I'm sure we'll hit on today. There are times where it really feels like we're not going to make it. completely agree with you. I'm really excited for our next episode, because we've a lot of mindset conversations today. But on our next episode, we're going to get really, really practical. Like, what does it actually look like ⁓ to month in our home? Yeah. What are some of the practical things we do with our financial choices to make a big family work? And I think that next week's episode is going to be practical to any family, no matter what. We may not be millionaires today, but we would be so excited to be millionaires in the future of how God could use that wealth to further his kingdom. I think every deeply rooted believer ⁓ should the mentality of if I were to be given abundance, whether it's an inheritance or the business takes off and you're making more money or ⁓ you just extra in your account. But for us, it's even more so, does our family have energy and time capacity in this season to drive her to all these different competitions, go away for the weekends, multiple times a week? There's so many other factors for us that we don't wanna just say, ⁓ well, we can't do dance team because we just can't afford it. And that, you and I, if we're not gonna put our resources towards something like dance team, And those are stretching seasons where God really has grown our faith. But this is what I've always seen God do. He always provides. when we have lived in times of chaos financially, our kids have never been the reason for that. really good point. They have never been the reason for that. And I think a really important thing to call out, because kids don't really make your ⁓ size you have, no matter if you have one kid, no kids, or 15. Yeah, I think next week's episode is really going to be a good like peel back the curtain kind of episode. So we really hope that you can join us again next time. And thank you for being with us today on the Rooted Family Podcast. We'll see you next time. I think we all as deeply rooted believers should be excited about that because of the tool that money can be to impact lives, to make a difference. You think about the ways we can help people in this world ⁓ impact. But I think about... It's because we're putting our resources towards something that we find to be more of a priority in the season. So for us right now, we're trying to buy another house. And we don't put money towards something like dance team, it's because we ⁓ are prioritizing that money into savings. And we do share that with our children so they understand. life expensive, it's our expectations of lifestyle. I I can speak to it personally, you can too. I think let's both admit, we love to watch a good show on HGTV. We love to watch House Hunters and these, you know, cool shows where somebody buys something and fixes it and renovates it or, you know, they're 20 years old. You always get so mad when somebody, and you're like. the tangible ways that we can impact, it all requires money. So I don't want to be content with just getting by. I don't want to be content with being stressed out of my ever loving mind because all I'm thinking about is how we're going to pay the next bill. Cause when we're trapped in that kind of a stress we, of course we can trust God and he can bring us to our knees and it creates a deep level of faith. But This doesn't make sense when somebody is like 25 years old and they're like, our budget's $800,000. Like, I'm like, how? That's not reality. what cracks me up more is when like the millennial family walks in and they're like, I think I'm going to have to gut this whole kitchen, whole bathroom in order for me to buy this place. And I'm thinking, are you kidding me? you are starting your life. the choices that we're making and the reasons we do and do not do certain things. They're brought into our goals and understanding our goals around finances. And that means we're to not make worry about money. think we've done a good job. I I was just reflecting back. You know, we've had seasons where we didn't really have money coming in for a while. We don't want to live so stressed out with our finances that we can't even focus on the person next to us because we're so scared of how we're going to get by. I think that's the danger of having a scarcity mentality. if people never heard this before, scarcity versus abundance mentality, how would you describe that difference? Scarcity mentality is being ⁓ stuck. Put your money somewhere else than trying to redo this entire house just so that you can have a luxurious home at 25 years old. Like you said, that is not reality. you know, being laid off and your company's closing things like that. And looking back on those seasons, I don't think our children would ever say they were afraid we weren't going to eat or afraid we weren't gonna, you know, have gas in the car or whatever. we never put a financial ⁓ burden fear into them those seasons. And I think we ⁓ really made that a priority. So that when they look back at those times, they may say, ⁓ yeah, I can see mom and dad were being strategic, but I don't think they would ever say, we were afraid of that. They should be afraid. in this idea that I won't have what I need in the future. So I have to hoard something I have today or I can't look to in the future because I'm afraid I won't have enough for today. we about our kids education, well, that costs more. ⁓ ⁓ I'm gonna of pick on public schools for a minute, but if your thoughts are, like public school, as many Christians have seen, it's getting further further away from helping ⁓ our kids to be rooted people when they up. so if it was important to you not to your kids to that school, but you did it anyway, because you thought I'll never be able to afford. Private education. Private education in any way. ⁓ And you were sharing with me little bit ago about how when you have children young, it almost forces you into a very intense maturation season where you're maturing earlier and faster than you probably anticipated. ⁓ Could you speak to how seen, maybe even just the responsibility of having has increased ⁓ our and just get stuck there. And we've always said, well, OK, if we want to send our kids or we're interested in learning more, let's go learn about those things. Is it a possibility? How can we make it a possibility? since we our kids are grown up, there's been state scholarships everywhere we moved and there's been school scholarships and there's been all these opportunities where the price tag was not the actual price we paid. stewardship over the years. Yeah, we've talked about this idea that, ⁓ kids make your life expensive. And that is a very common message into the world. But I've mentioned this earlier, too, there's a reality of real life. And then there's the reality of what people just talk about that's real life. And you see this a lot, in work or in the finance world, people talk in theory. ⁓ ⁓ Yeah, I it comes down to are you resourceful? Because there's so many ways you can make things work. There's so many different scholarships available. There's so many different programs available ⁓ that a of us can qualify for. ⁓ I think that if willing to ⁓ look, do the research, be open ⁓ that there could be help. I that you would be surprised at how ⁓ you could make these different. But when you're sitting there grinding every day and you're the one paying the bills and you're watching the simple concept of here's my money in, here's what I'm choosing to put that money out to, that is the actual reality of life. when we are young, I think this idea of kids are expensive is delaying people's true maturity. Like what a gift truly decisions work. Yeah, and you can also, as you said, get creative. Sometimes it is about going out and making more and there's not another way, you can still be creative in doing that in a way that's gonna work for the season you're in. ⁓ things like Uber driving. These are things that I've done in the past. I Uber drove for a little while, ⁓ yeah, I mean, it was really late at night and that was very difficult. For us, it was to have kids young and to have to mature and say, here's the money we have to actually work with and here's how we're going to get by every month. knowing we hold this responsibility of having ⁓ two, three little people around that are depending on us to be good stewards. It forced us into stewardship. Well, I think too that but it did work in the schedule, like in that season. ⁓ went and waited tables. You waited tables when we were early married. I did it for a short period when we only had one or two kids. And ⁓ opportunity came our way a couple years into marriage for direct sales opportunity. And we took that opportunity and we just ran with it. And it was very successful to be able to build a business with Mary Kay. ⁓ Single people not always but I think single people without children have different priorities financially than married people with children Because when you're single like not married no children, you really only have to take care of yourself So you're making financial choices thinking about yourself and when you're married and you have children now You're not only thinking about your spouse I mean, that led to us getting cars and a very significant income. And we've never bought a brand new car, you know, off the lot. Yeah. But we were so fortunate to be able to drive these brand new cars with Mary Kay from earning them ⁓ with business. And so that was one opportunity that we just took, took a hold of and really some beautiful from. and how to provide and how to take care of them. But now you have all these little people that you are planning for their future. so ⁓ you look at even just the concept of, okay, ⁓ let's say 25 years old, no kids, not married, you're making $80,000. You have ⁓ so more in the budget to almost make foolish decisions. Ooh, that's a really good thought. You really do. ⁓ Cause it doesn't people. I think you bring a really good point there too about being resourceful is sometimes working what you have today. Yeah. Knowing that, okay, it's not going to necessarily have to be this way tomorrow. I think a good example was our most recent vehicle purchase was trading out an 04 mini van or an 08. Maybe it was an 08, but the point is it's 2026 and we had like a almost 20 year old van. Yeah. And Yeah, you could rack up your credit card because you can make the credit card payment next month or you can go on two or three vacations a year because you just have that disposable income there. a family forces you into thinking about security faster, ⁓ but not necessarily like. We sold that because we needed a 12 passenger. Like we just were at that stage. And we were at that family size. Oh yeah. We needed a bus. You can go out and buy those for 80 grand, like brand new. Yeah. And our resources did not say go out and buy a brand new $80,000 van. Gripping to money as your security but thinking like how do I provide a foundation for my family? So we're not living in financial chaos when we're 40 50 60 years old Mm-hmm. and you know we starting ⁓ kids that were so young we started with a low income and Really low income. Let's be clear. You were leaking a thousand dollars a month even just looking at used four wheel drive, 12 passenger vehicles was going to be like 60 grand. It was it was a lot. ⁓ And that's not the season we were in. ⁓ And so we may do ⁓ with a quality 12 passenger that we were happy with. As a graduate assistant, a graduate assistant, my job was we were still living on campus when we got married and my job thankfully provided an apartment for us, which included, you know, the the utility bills. But can you believe that? Like we were literally living on a thousand dollars a month when we were in our early 20s. Yeah. that is used. That we were able to pay cash for. And we pay cash and we're super about that and you know today that just means okay what are we going to do? Well being resourceful is we have a small car and what we're going to turn that now into a four-wheel drive vehicle that yeah not all nine of us are going to fit in but we don't need nine us anywhere really. And that did force us into certain choices. I remember you went and got a waitressing job. Go Cracker Barrel. Because you were just working part time. So you had the capacity to do that. And I was very supportive of that because I was in school. yeah, it was a way to get by. Now we found out we were pregnant within the first year. And that totally changed everything. I mean, I went and... in that in bad weather. It's more like get to school safely, home safely. So we're going to do that. And will cost us ⁓ way and we a vehicle. So the need was there, but we got creative with how are we going to find the opportunities with the resources we have. got a different job and I did not complete that graduate assistant job. did not finish that. I didn't finish that degree. Now I think about it. so I went and got a real job and we went and got an apartment and we scrapped and figured out each stage as it came. Yeah. What would you say to the people that are like, I can't have kids until we're financially stable or we have it financially figured out. Cause I know there are going to be people that are listening that want to have children or maybe even want to have more children, but they don't feel like they're financially ready for that. Well, first I'd say, what does that even mean? To be ready? What is it? Yeah. What is that definition? Like you have to be debt free or do you need to have $50,000 in the bank? Do you need to? being executive in your career, you need to define what that means. I think the other thing is, we need to have a wake-up call around what we really control in life. I mean, you can control it, but studies are showing, especially for women, that these methods ⁓ of trying to pregnancy can be very harmful. I think that's really important to consider of like, you, is it worth the harm you could potentially causing to your own body? tell our story real quick. Just so understand, you were on birth control when we first got married. Yep. Like a pill. A pill. And you had came to me and said, this is messing with me emotionally. I am not myself. I don't like how ⁓ I go about the day I really don't think I can do this or should do this ⁓ the long run. And wanted to be really supportive of you because I didn't know all these things as a guy. So I really tried to listen. I didn't try to be selfish about it myself. And I said, okay, whatever that means, I'm going to okay with that. ⁓ And we had in our life, a friend of mine, would call a mentor the time as well, who ⁓ which just starting to have their own children and had really given us some wisdom that stuck with us and said, Hey, we just, we just prayed when God says that we're going to be financially, emotionally and spiritually ready, that he will give us children. they trusted the Lord about that. Yeah. Like they were praying that and they were trusting the Lord. And I don't know what they were doing contraception wise, you know, if they were just doing nothing or if they were natural planning or something, but I remember them saying that. And I think you and I, wanted to be trusting in the Lord with our childbearing years, like we trust him with ⁓ every other area of our life. almost make sense for us to trust him with the other big things, but then say, ⁓ Lord, you don't have the whole kid thing figured out for us. So we're just going to like take that in our hands, but you can worry about the rest. I think you've always had a really good mentality about that. Yeah. I remember you pointing that out. Like, yeah, this makes sense. Like we just want to trust the Lord. So why wouldn't we trust him in this area? And looking back, I'm sure someone said this and I can't remember who, but like you're never ready to have a kid. Yeah. And I just be honest with you. Like you're not, you're young. You're trying to figure out life. You will never be ready. You can't know what it's fully like to have this person who, by the way, you will love more than you've ever known you could love someone to this depth that is, I can't even tell you, I have a seven and I still can't even describe it after all these years. it is literally the greatest blessing you will have in this lifetime. Yeah. And I think we really need to see it that way. So truly, I've never sat and thought, like every time you've told me that we're pregnant with the next kid, I've never even thought about money. No, me neither. I don't think about it ever. I think it's interesting you say that because that's never been my first reaction of like, oh my gosh, how are we to be able to afford this? We've always just trusted the Lord is going to provide for us. says in his word that he takes care of the birds. And even more so, he takes care of us. So if he's gonna provide a blessing that is a child, we as deeply rooted believers, it is in our nature walking with God to trust him in his word. And I know if we're all the way on the side of like open womb, you know, where just like, you're gonna just be super, I wanna say loose, like super unconscious about childbearing. Cause I do think that there are reasons and seasons for women to consider should they have more children, health reasons and things like that. I don't know exactly where I land on that, but I would say for us, we have always wanted to distrust the Lord with our childbearing and... We never wanted to make money the we didn't have more. ⁓ Do you remember that financial advisor that had ⁓ when we lived in He helped us quite a bit, kind of setting us for success financially, just helping us get organized. it's interesting because I don't even know where his faith was, if he was a believer or not, but he was looking at our finances, our full picture and how much debt we had. And, you know, he saw our income and all those details. And I remember him saying to us, you should not base your child bearing on your finances. Do remember that? I do remember that. And he was not a Dave Ramsey guy, although he followed a lot of the same principles. I think that it's really interesting that you and I both have this thought of like money. doesn't really impact a decision about children. I am really curious, what would you say is the biggest key that you've seen to us being on the same page about that? what would you credit that to? Yeah, I would definitely say how we ⁓ wanted to be on the same early on. So when I think about you know, this mindset of okay, kids are not going to limit us, they're a financial liability. ⁓ We so unified about that early on. And I think another thing that helped unify us was ⁓ being the same team when it came to our finances. So what I mean by that is ⁓ we took class early on, we took Financial Peace University ⁓ with Dave and You don't necessarily need to take that class, although we're huge fans. Just taking a financial class together was so impactful for our marriage. We were babies ⁓ our marriage and had come from pretty similar backgrounds. ⁓ It's cool because both of our parents are very financially stable, very stewards, ⁓ of their good with their budgets and just, I think they're very mindful. And you and I came into the marriage with, I think, a good foundation. But there were definitely differences in how we handled our cash flow, how we felt about debt. I remember some pretty big arguments early on. Like we shared, think, in one of the first episodes ⁓ our argument on the credit card. And going to a class, we went to this class every week for like nine weeks. And we walked away from that class. I don't know how you felt, but speaking for myself, ⁓ felt like we were totally of the same mindset when it came to our money. ⁓ the class gave us ⁓ ⁓ we now shared. We came to agreement on our beliefs ⁓ money, I think, which is really important because ⁓ you don't realize in a young marriage or even in a marriage where you don't steward your money together and talk about it. is you're probably living with different beliefs around money. that can become very difficult. think the practical thing, one of the most practical things we took away from that class was we put everything together. doing from the very beginning was really, powerful for us. And what you mean by that is like putting all of our assets together. Like, is that what you mean? Yeah. all of our cash together. Cash together. Registered our cars even in each other's names so that they were our cars not your car my car I didn't have a separate checking account from you. I didn't have separate credit cards from you everything we put together and having this shared way of handling things Always meant we have to work together. We have full accountability visibility to each other and so We also learned to put in certain boundaries. The budget was an amazing boundary, right? There's things you plan for ahead of time. We also had an idea around a threshold of like, we don't spend a certain amount. Yeah, certain amount. Without talking to each other. I feel like that's always been for us around 100. It was lower at first share when we were first married. I think it was probably like 50 bucks. Or 25. really five. I think it was five at Like, can I go get a Starbucks? We can't afford it this month. But for real, that actually was a thing for a while. And we respected that. I think this is the other key. You and I, because we went through this class together, it really helped give us language around even the goals that we had for our money. And we started from very early on those first few months of our marriage and we've been married now going on 14 years. We have had such a clear vision, a unified vision and unified goals on where we're going financially. And maybe we didn't have much in our early days. Like we had so little in those early days that I remember our first Christmas, we each gave each other $25. And we said, let's see who can do the best with $25 and building a stocking for each other. Yeah. It's a tradition we still carry today. Yeah. Every year we do $25 stockings still. And you rocked it. I mean, you got me like a shirt and a nail plush. I mean, you can't even get like anything for $25. I feel like these days like a book maybe. But yeah, it reminds me of those humble beginnings. And I think we want to always cling to that, that even as much wealth, should the Lord bless us in that way, I think that you and I always want to remember those early beginnings where we had hardly anything, but He so abundantly provided for us. He took care of us. He was faithful, even in those days where there wasn't much. And I do think that being on the same page early on has led us to the health. that we have today in our finances into the piece that we have. I agree. I think that we've always driven to be a team. But I'm curious, why do you think so many couples avoid maybe talking about money or creating a budget or, you know, some of these kind of practical things we've learned? I wonder if it's because so many people are getting married later. You know, I think that's just the trend, you that's not my opinion, that's actually what's happening. A lot of people aren't getting married in their early 20s anymore, like we did, where we had to almost grow up together. We didn't have much, so we were just coming to the table with our little scraps, you know, we're like, okay, let's make this work. I think there's a lot of people coming into marriage now into their 30s with, with, quite a bit now, you may be in the savings, maybe they own a house, they own a boat or whatever the case is. And it almost feels like they don't wanna give up rights to what they've already made. And I think there's almost like this selfishness that we have to get over where we think, ⁓ this is my money. That's your debt. And because there is such a ⁓ on their own financial status, they don't want to loosen it up they become ⁓ with their spouse. So ⁓ what happens over time, because they never really talk about it, they each have their own thing, then true financial problems come up in marriage. Like you've lost your job twice in our marriage. I cannot imagine the stress that we would have had had you had your own debt, your own money, ⁓ carrying my own stuff and not being there for each other. ⁓ Like, I just think that mentality can really hurt a couple. I don't know, what do you think? Why do you couples avoid talking about it? I agree with you on what you said. I think there is a percentage of people where that's very true. Something that came to mind was ⁓ we watched that which by the way, don't go the show. I am not endorsing it. It's called Love is Blind. ⁓ did watch a couple episodes together. Episodes? How about seasons? ⁓ I've seen at least one. season. ⁓ Regardless. very interesting concept. The thing came up and always like very, very tenuous. I can't even fathom the idea of a prenup. I don't mean any of this as a judgment, by the way. It just wasn't our situation. I came into this relationship with nothing. Yeah, me too. You had nothing. Yeah. What's there to preen up here? Nothing. So wasn't even a factor. It's because these people on this show, which is a good barometer of real life, ⁓ are when two people come and they're in their ⁓ thirties, which is getting to the most common age now, you don't want the other person's debt you don't want you know, to mix things or you're afraid things are going to break up. I get that. So I think that's totally true. think there is also shame. I know of relationships ⁓ ⁓ were dating in their thirties like a friend of mine, he manned up and was like, all right, let's talk about finances. If we're going to get married someday, I want to know ⁓ what your situation is. And ⁓ you she had debt. had completely different thoughts around debt than he did. And I'm not saying this as a judgment, it was he has always avoided debt at all costs. He's never even made that much. He's just always avoided debt. So she came in and made more, but she had a lot of debt. he was like, well, I'm not opposed to that, but what's our plan to pay that off then? And she was like, whatever, I don't care. I'm just gonna make minimum payments he was like, no, I'm on a completely different planet. And they were not able to come to how are we gonna be a team? a middle ground on that? Yeah. so kudos to him that he broke that engagement off. But the idea was let's fix this now and talk about it. Yeah. ⁓ I think they say that three biggest stressors in marriage or the things that people fight about the most are sex, raising kids, and then money. Yeah, that is very true. Very, very true. And I would say too, looking back on our 14 years, you know, we've had some bigger fights about money, ⁓ it's never usually about where we're headed. It's usually just you know, temporary moments where we're both kind of stressed and we're like, okay, how do we... ⁓ fix the budget to make it work or you have an opinion on how to use some money and I have an opinion. But I appreciate is we've never had a blowout fight in our marriage about money ⁓ I think we built such a foundation early on. And I want to encourage you all, if you're listening to this today, you can go ⁓ that foundation. In fact, if you're listening to this and like, wow, I wish I had that, then my encouragement, I know it sounds so silly to say, it's so simple, then go. Do it. Yeah. Take the next season of your life. See the next season of your life, and your marriage and go get on the same You can always put your bank accounts together if they're not together today. You can always go put both your names on the house or the title of your cars. If you're not doing that today, you can go take a class. And I really encourage you to do It is, going to be some effort. It is a commitment. But my encouragement to you is you truly get to do that. so if you hear nothing else out of this episode, go ⁓ something and get on the same page. And if you can't get there, I'm sorry. I would get on the same means maybe if you need to go get some counseling maybe there's some beliefs or there's some shame. none of that, want you you to be discouraged by because working through this and getting on the same page is going to enrich your faith. It's going to enrich your family. It's going to enrich the rest of your life. second is worth it. ⁓ it costs money to take a class. It costs money to get counseling, but you will reap a return. thousand fold. I mean, they even say the people who make the most money in their life and have the most happiness and joy, in general, are a married couple who work together. And it's not about how much money they make. There's no correlation between how much you make and how happy fulfilled a life you have. But there is a ton of correlation around how unified are you. Yeah. ⁓ Yeah, because money issues in marriage are rarely about money. They're actually about misalignment. And so I just echo what you're saying that if you aren't aligned to your marriage, it's a opportunity to really seek out how to become aligned. It should be ⁓ something you take so seriously because bringing it back to being a rooted family, as we living as rooted ⁓ It's hard to pinpoint really what does rooted actually mean, but I think we can all agree that being rooted, there's a deep level of peace. when I see ⁓ frantic about their life, it's usually there's deep seated money issues. When think about like the Maslow's pyramid and of that hierarchy of needs if you haven't studied before, ⁓ It's in psychology, this basic triangle where you don't really rise to the next thing of security in your life until you meet the very basics and the very bottom of the pyramid. The basic need of all people is security, safe in their life, feeling safe in their home and feeling safe, I think, with money too. And doesn't mean you have to have a lot of money. I think it comes down to do you have a plan with your money? because you could be making very minimal amount, but if you have a plan on how that's coming in, how you're it, how you're budgeting it, ⁓ so much peace there. When you have money problems, it consumes It has consumed us. in seasons where we have not had our act together or we've gotten off our budget, ⁓ or we maybe spent a little bit too much on things that we want to spend on, ⁓ when we have those kind of stressors with our money, ⁓ it really a lot of chaos in the home. And I just that there is a true correlation between having peace in your family and being mindful of your finances. ⁓ And so this leads us to our third, point today is that money is a tool, but it is not our security. ⁓ ultimately we have never believed that money was the end all be all for our ⁓ home, our marriage, our family. Yeah, Jesus was really getting at that in the Sermon on the Mount when he says, you know, do not worry about tomorrow for you do not know what it will bring. Or he talks about how the lilies of the field are closed so beautifully, how much more will your father take care of you? the whole point here is our security ⁓ in the Lord. And when we look to him, And then we remember that we have each other. just have this deep belief that there's nothing we can't figure out in some I think that's the blessing of getting married young. think that's the blessing of having been through many hard times over the years is I look back and I say the Lord is always taking care of us. Yeah, I think something that has helped us in ⁓ where money was tight, almost we didn't have the foundation of money ⁓ security anymore was just continuing to generous. ⁓ And we don't say that to, you know, brag or anything like that, but just share that ⁓ doesn't matter how tight you're living or how little you have. I the Lord wants us as rooted believers to be generous in all seasons. And ⁓ it is crazy to me how ⁓ there been seasons where we ⁓ did know how things were going to come together by the end of the month. and we still remain generous with our tithe, with giving to other people. And the Lord figured it out. There would be extra checks coming in the mail from random things that we didn't know, like maybe an insurance refund that we didn't plan on. Or people have been so generous with us. I mean, we could sit here for days and share stories of people's generosity through all the different seasons of our life. I think that when you're generous, even in the little that you have, it's not that God blesses you because you're being generous. I think it just changes your mindset. It helps you to have an abundance mentality of ⁓ I'm not cling to these few pennies that I have ⁓ because I'm gonna trust and believe that I'm just a vessel, ⁓ a funnel the Lord is gonna always continue to provide ⁓ and we continue to give.