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Tigers Snap Losing Skid. Is There Light At The End Of The Tunnel? · Tiger Territory: A Detroit Tigers Podcast

0:09
Speaker 1: And welcome in June of the episode of Tiger's Territory,
0:11
Speaker 1: part of the Foul Territory Network, a Tiger's podcast. I'm
0:14
Speaker 1: Karen Steckley with me as always, a man who also
0:16
Speaker 1: once had Billy Jean claim he is the one he is.
0:20
Speaker 1: Cody Stavenhagen, how are.
0:21
Speaker 2: You doing I'm doing right, Kieran, how are.
0:23
Speaker 1: You doing doing well? Doing well? Uh, happy to talk
0:28
Speaker 1: a little bit more positively. Obviously, there's some other stuff
0:31
Speaker 1: that we're going to get into. That thing's not so
0:33
Speaker 1: pretty this weekend in Kansas City, but we are recording this,
0:36
Speaker 1: you know, about thirty ish minutes after the Tigers salvage
0:40
Speaker 1: the road series in Casey with a six to three
0:44
Speaker 1: victory the hero of the day being a course gauge workman,
0:48
Speaker 1: and we'll get to how he ended up being as
0:52
Speaker 1: part of the conversation here in a second. But you know,
0:57
Speaker 1: the forty game thing, Cody, let's just kind of get
0:59
Speaker 1: into that at the top here, because that's the more
1:02
Speaker 1: broader picture as we go into into next week. We're
1:06
Speaker 1: forty plus in. The Tigers have a nineteen and twenty
1:09
Speaker 1: two record, which is made remarkable about the fact that
1:13
Speaker 1: they are plus four in run differential, third best in
1:19
Speaker 1: the American League, as we have in the standings up
1:24
Speaker 1: up to the Mint standings up. If you're watching us
1:26
Speaker 1: on YouTube, you can see, you know, like the whole
1:30
Speaker 1: thing that we kind of do as like an easy
1:33
Speaker 1: narrative to grab onto, is that the forty game mark.
1:38
Speaker 1: It really kind of tells you what your team is,
1:40
Speaker 1: and then you can like that that's as good as
1:43
Speaker 1: an indicator as any, like what you got in your squad.
1:48
Speaker 1: I gotta tell you, I'm not really sure that applies
1:51
Speaker 1: for this Tigers team. I don't know what the hell
1:54
Speaker 1: they have. I know that some clear deficiencies and what
1:57
Speaker 1: I think are some strengths. But with all these injuries
1:59
Speaker 1: leading the league baseball and IL stint current players on IL,
2:04
Speaker 1: I don't know if this is a nineteen and twenty
2:06
Speaker 1: two team, but they are a nineteen and twenty two
2:09
Speaker 1: team with the third best run differential in the American League,
2:11
Speaker 1: So go figure makes sense to that point.
2:13
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's been a weird first forty games. I guess
2:16
Speaker 2: you could say it was a weird final two plus
2:19
Speaker 2: months last season. If you go back with the Tigers
2:22
Speaker 2: record since last July seventh, it's I'll just say it's
2:26
Speaker 2: not pretty. So I don't know how much of that
2:28
Speaker 2: to carry over to factor in. It's just been a
2:31
Speaker 2: strange first forty games, largely because you came out of
2:35
Speaker 2: the gates and you were doing all right, didn't quite
2:37
Speaker 2: feel like you were hitting on all cylinders. He had
2:39
Speaker 2: a lot of sloppy play, and then when the inder
2:42
Speaker 2: injury bug hit, it hit really hard. I believe they're
2:45
Speaker 2: up to fifteen guys on the major league injured list,
2:48
Speaker 2: and it hasn't just been anybody. It now includes Trek Scruble,
2:53
Speaker 2: the Justin Erlander Detroit homecoming we still have not seen.
2:58
Speaker 2: We will talk about it a little more in ZEC
3:00
Speaker 2: about Kerry Carpenter is now in that injury list, Hovey
3:02
Speaker 2: Baias Casey Miz like some of your key guys or
3:07
Speaker 2: certainly important contributors are out and the team you're seeing now,
3:12
Speaker 2: I mean, look, it's no secret go up and down
3:15
Speaker 2: the list. Zach Schortz in this lineup, Gage Workman's in
3:17
Speaker 2: this lineup, when Sapeias Matt viierling Er playing kind of
3:21
Speaker 2: outsized roles. Look at the state of the bullpen with
3:25
Speaker 2: Will vest On, the al like, it's not pretty. It's
3:29
Speaker 2: it isn't kind of the roster right now of a
3:32
Speaker 2: nineteen and twenty two team. I think the question is
3:35
Speaker 2: what happens when they return to health. Is probably a
3:38
Speaker 2: little bit of a misnomer that all fifteen guys are
3:42
Speaker 2: gonna come back and everything will be great and no
3:43
Speaker 2: one else will get hurt. Like some of these guys
3:46
Speaker 2: are going to come back, some other ones will get hurt,
3:48
Speaker 2: but reasonably you can expect, you would think, to have
3:53
Speaker 2: better health, a better roster, healthier roster, and hopefully every
3:58
Speaker 2: other point in the year, if you can get through,
4:00
Speaker 2: you know, another week or two of this, And so
4:03
Speaker 2: that's really the whole thing. I don't know. It's kind
4:06
Speaker 2: of a frustrating time Tigers lost five in a row
4:09
Speaker 2: before Sunday's win. They were some some ugly games, and
4:14
Speaker 2: I look at the standings, I'm like, well, you haven't
4:17
Speaker 2: lost meetingful ground in your division, and you damn sure
4:21
Speaker 2: haven't lost meetingful ground in the American League. It's kind
4:25
Speaker 2: of speaks to the anomaly I think of how bad
4:28
Speaker 2: the American League is right now. Kind of nobody has
4:32
Speaker 2: gotten going other than the Rays and the Yankees, So
4:36
Speaker 2: I think that provides you a lot of hope. At
4:40
Speaker 2: the same time, Look, it may be a rough stretch
4:44
Speaker 2: before the Tigers get healthier and you have to start
4:47
Speaker 2: playing a better brand of baseball. We've been saying that
4:50
Speaker 2: since what like the second series of the season, and
4:53
Speaker 2: that's the part that hasn't corrected. And regardless of who's
4:56
Speaker 2: on the roster, that is I think the one thing
4:59
Speaker 2: that it's fair to kind of be knocking this team
5:01
Speaker 2: for right now.
5:03
Speaker 1: Yeah, there is part of me that says, like, in
5:06
Speaker 1: early May, if you would have told my vacationing butt
5:11
Speaker 1: in Italy that in early May you're going to see
5:13
Speaker 1: be seeing Zach Short engage engaged workmen and hyal and
5:19
Speaker 1: and you know, in the same game and probably not
5:23
Speaker 1: feeling as good and be like, all right, well, nineteen
5:25
Speaker 1: and twenty two makes a little sense.
5:26
Speaker 2: You probably think worse than nineteen and twenty two for
5:28
Speaker 2: being real.
5:30
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, And the the context there is actually really
5:34
Speaker 1: important because, like, as as a loss mounts, the amount
5:38
Speaker 1: of out like crying. I don't mean that in like
5:43
Speaker 1: a wow wow way, but like crying out way of
5:46
Speaker 1: like of the fan base about just what they're seeing
5:49
Speaker 1: and talk radio and you know, people like us and
5:51
Speaker 1: like all that stuff like easy to kind of get
5:54
Speaker 1: wrapped up in that. But the grander picture, as you
5:57
Speaker 1: laid out there, is that if there's just a way,
6:02
Speaker 1: there was a way to stay a ship of what
6:03
Speaker 1: we've seen these forty plus games, this would be it
6:06
Speaker 1: like the you're not out of anything, as I repeatedly said,
6:09
Speaker 1: you're not out of anything that you want to accomplish
6:12
Speaker 1: right now. Uh, and so you just kind of have
6:14
Speaker 1: to wait it out and hope for some some some
6:17
Speaker 1: better luck in some ways, uh, which I guess let's
6:23
Speaker 1: let's kind of get to probably the best news of
6:26
Speaker 1: the day. I mean, we'll breaking a losing streak is
6:29
Speaker 1: is really important, but maybe perhaps the best news of
6:32
Speaker 1: the day is that we have another report and it's
6:35
Speaker 1: not even a report, it's coming straight from the mouth
6:38
Speaker 1: of Scott Boris be a buster only that you know,
6:41
Speaker 1: this schoobol thing looks like it could be a lot
6:45
Speaker 1: quicker and that and probably more actually put a lot
6:49
Speaker 1: less dire straits of a procedure than what was obviously
6:53
Speaker 1: fear when you just don't know anything before the knife.
6:55
Speaker 1: Reading from Busters Report Detroit Tiger's ace Tek Schooble could
6:59
Speaker 1: return significantly sooner than the typical timeline for a picture
7:01
Speaker 1: undergoing removal of loose of a loose elbow particle, according
7:06
Speaker 1: to Scott foris Uh. He said that on on to
7:11
Speaker 1: Buster today and they had the report out today, So
7:14
Speaker 1: that's that's great news. So if you're looking at like
7:17
Speaker 1: the worst case scenario for school, you're looking at trade
7:19
Speaker 1: deadline stuff Nightingale colleague here at foul Territory like included
7:24
Speaker 1: like some scuttle but like could the Tigers be sellers?
7:27
Speaker 1: And and it makes sense when you just look at it,
7:29
Speaker 1: you know, broadly, I never really bought into that, but
7:32
Speaker 1: like something like this, all these indications are that schoobol
7:36
Speaker 1: should be quicker and hopefully more okay faster than previously feared.
7:41
Speaker 1: And that's and that's something to hang on to as
7:44
Speaker 1: you go through this rough stretch.
7:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, well we'll see. On our last episode, I had said,
7:49
Speaker 2: be interested to hear what the Tigers say, and and
7:51
Speaker 2: aj Hinch said pretty much what I thought he would like.
7:54
Speaker 2: Surgery went, well, we're not going to put a timeline
7:56
Speaker 2: on it. Everyone wants to know the timeline. We have
7:59
Speaker 2: to get him up and throwing first. Now, the good
8:01
Speaker 2: news is here, if you believe what's coming from the Boris' side.
8:05
Speaker 2: It's not like some big shutdown. It sounds like there's
8:07
Speaker 2: a pretty minimal healing time here, which maybe means he
8:12
Speaker 2: doesn't have to go through this full kind of starting
8:14
Speaker 2: from zero, starting from scratch, ramp up. That's, you know,
8:18
Speaker 2: clearly what Boris and his camp are putting out there,
8:21
Speaker 2: and if that's the truth, I do think this could
8:24
Speaker 2: be on the quicker end of things.
8:25
Speaker 3: Now.
8:25
Speaker 2: The only report said, like there's optimism in the Tigers
8:29
Speaker 2: clubhouse that he could be back in early June. That's
8:33
Speaker 2: less than a month from now. So I'm taking the
8:36
Speaker 2: over And like, Eric, if you're listening, that's not because
8:39
Speaker 2: I'm like doubting you or your ability to come back.
8:41
Speaker 2: It's just like these things didn't we're about to talk
8:44
Speaker 2: about justin erland Er Like, these things take a while,
8:47
Speaker 2: especially if you have to go on rehab assignment, you
8:50
Speaker 2: have to get a couple outings under your belt. But
8:53
Speaker 2: it certainly seems again for now, like this is on
8:57
Speaker 2: the positive end of things. This is on these shorter
9:00
Speaker 2: end of that timeline spectrum. So if that ends up
9:02
Speaker 2: being the case, that is terrific. That's terrific for the
9:06
Speaker 2: Tigers as they try to win games and stay in
9:09
Speaker 2: this hunt, as terrific for Trek Scoogle as he tries
9:12
Speaker 2: to kind of retain that full value, perhaps in search
9:15
Speaker 2: of a record contract. If it plays out this way,
9:18
Speaker 2: that's great. I'm actually gonna take the aj hinch out here, though,
9:21
Speaker 2: Let's like see when he's up and throwing, Let's see
9:24
Speaker 2: how that goes. And I think we'll have a better
9:27
Speaker 2: idea once we at least get to that step.
9:31
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't really know, Like, like the part that
9:35
Speaker 1: feels the best for me, Cody, is that I just
9:38
Speaker 1: don't know what interest Boris has in putting this out
9:42
Speaker 1: there on the record, like not even like leaked, like
9:44
Speaker 1: on the record, putting this out there unless they feel
9:48
Speaker 1: like really confident like it's gonna be okay, because otherwise
9:51
Speaker 1: it could end up making it look worse for your client,
9:54
Speaker 1: and then all the we're just like speculating on speculating
9:57
Speaker 1: on speculating pre surgery. There are some things where it's
10:00
Speaker 1: like our is Boris company gonna like kind of slow
10:03
Speaker 1: roll him so that he's as healthy as possible going
10:07
Speaker 1: into that free agency going as he seeks, like the
10:10
Speaker 1: record contract and all that stuff. So to me, this
10:13
Speaker 1: like this is pretty good indication because this guy's not
10:18
Speaker 1: dumb now, Like he's doing this for a reason and
10:23
Speaker 1: he wouldn't want to set up his prime client for
10:26
Speaker 1: some sort of disappointment if it does like bleed into
10:28
Speaker 1: like let's just say the All Star break or whatever,
10:31
Speaker 1: you know, this rehab and not being fully back yet,
10:33
Speaker 1: So that to me would be the best indication. All right,
10:39
Speaker 1: we are going to take a quick break and then
10:42
Speaker 1: afterward we're getting to get to sort of the logistics
10:45
Speaker 1: that led to today's hero, Gauge Tater Workman being the
10:49
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Speaker 1: All right, coming back here, I'm sure the Tigers are
12:00
Speaker 1: to not have to be uh in that right field
12:03
Speaker 1: anymore after a couple of disastrous moments, and the most
12:07
Speaker 1: impactful right now would be carry Carpenter banging into the
12:11
Speaker 1: wall has a sprained left a seed joint. And then
12:15
Speaker 1: the roster maneuvering Erlander moved to the sixty day I
12:20
Speaker 1: l and then that created the forty man roster spot
12:22
Speaker 1: to get gauge workmen up just real quick on the
12:25
Speaker 1: carpenter injury, Cody, not to be like, you know, make
12:30
Speaker 1: it all about myself, but I had that injury in
12:32
Speaker 1: high school one time, and it is very painful. Like
12:35
Speaker 1: it like like I I couldn't even get underneath the
12:39
Speaker 1: squad rack because I couldn't lift my arm like high
12:43
Speaker 1: enough to without it being like really really painful. So
12:46
Speaker 1: that is a painful injury.
12:48
Speaker 2: How'd you do that? Did you get tackled?
12:51
Speaker 1: It was actually during off season training if we had
12:55
Speaker 1: to do this thing where you do a role and
12:57
Speaker 1: then you do a superman dive on a mat and
13:00
Speaker 1: if you caught yourself, you were called bad words. So
13:04
Speaker 1: I didn't catch myself and so I just landed on
13:06
Speaker 1: my shoulder really awkwardly. So that's about it. School is
13:08
Speaker 1: banging into the wall, uh and then eventuague baseball game.
13:13
Speaker 1: But anyway, that it's a very painful injury. So that's
13:17
Speaker 1: something that they're going to have to take care of, obviously.
13:19
Speaker 1: But j justin Erlander's sixty day. That's obviously a bad headline,
13:22
Speaker 1: but nothing that really actually probably changes much. I mean,
13:26
Speaker 1: it's just kind of bad timing because It happened right
13:27
Speaker 1: after a live VP session.
13:29
Speaker 2: Right yeah, uh well yeah, when the carry play, I mean,
13:33
Speaker 2: that was obviously odd and leads to you know, an
13:35
Speaker 2: inside the park homer. One of those things where in
13:38
Speaker 2: the moment, I didn't think much of it, like I
13:40
Speaker 2: didn't think he was gonna come out of that injured,
13:42
Speaker 2: and then you look back and it's like, well, you know,
13:44
Speaker 2: he hit the wall pretty good. It's kind of like,
13:47
Speaker 2: I don't know if Kerrie ever played football, looked like
13:49
Speaker 2: you got tackled, you know, and that you can see
13:51
Speaker 2: that lead to ac joint sprains from time to time.
13:53
Speaker 2: Like it was just like a hit. It's unfortunate given
13:57
Speaker 2: his injury history, you know, to see this happen. And
14:00
Speaker 2: again I believe this is the other shoulder. You know,
14:03
Speaker 2: he had a previous shoulder injury. There are the other
14:05
Speaker 2: ones like yeah, I don't know, Carrie was going through
14:10
Speaker 2: it at the plate a little bit, but this is
14:12
Speaker 2: you know, one of the big goals entering this year
14:14
Speaker 2: was like, keep carry Carpenter on the field, and sure
14:18
Speaker 2: enough he's il. It sounds like we don't know what's
14:20
Speaker 2: on about the extent, you know, you're still holding out
14:22
Speaker 2: hope this can be on the quicker end of things,
14:24
Speaker 2: but we will see not good and another guy when
14:27
Speaker 2: he comes back, you need him to be right. The
14:31
Speaker 2: Verlander thing, yeah, Nett, not huge news to me, Like
14:35
Speaker 2: we were already pushing the sixty day timeline anyway. I'd
14:38
Speaker 2: kind of been thinking to myself for a while, like
14:41
Speaker 2: how long until they just when they need a spot,
14:43
Speaker 2: they just put Verlander on the sixty day. Now you
14:47
Speaker 2: know he's progressed, right, he threw to hitters, and if
14:51
Speaker 2: we look at this from Chris mccoskey, like just through
14:54
Speaker 2: thirty eight pitches, it's good to see him on the mound.
14:57
Speaker 2: I don't love the fact that how you lead and
15:01
Speaker 2: wincel Perez put the ball in play every at bat,
15:06
Speaker 2: sounds like both hit a couple, both hit doubles off
15:09
Speaker 2: of him. So like, doesn't sound like it went great
15:12
Speaker 2: for Verlander in Kansas City. And you know, there was
15:16
Speaker 2: kind of thought, okay, like he's throwing, is it like
15:19
Speaker 2: he throws, then he does a reab assignment, then he's
15:21
Speaker 2: back in the big leagues and I'm like, no, it's
15:24
Speaker 2: going to be a little slower. He's going to face
15:26
Speaker 2: hitters again. And then he's probably gonna need multiple rehab starts,
15:29
Speaker 2: and so if they're going to take that approach quite quickly,
15:33
Speaker 2: you're pushing May thirty first, which I believe is the
15:36
Speaker 2: date he will be eligible to be reinstated. This doesn't
15:41
Speaker 2: change a lot. This maybe is like okay, rather than
15:43
Speaker 2: the ideal version is ten days sooner. You know he's
15:47
Speaker 2: gonna have to do one or two more outings, which
15:51
Speaker 2: isn't necessarily a huge surprise. Obviously at his age and
15:55
Speaker 2: given what he's going through, it doesn't seem like things
15:57
Speaker 2: have responded well. You want to take your time with
16:00
Speaker 2: this injury. This is completely different than Trek Scougel's injury
16:04
Speaker 2: or Trek Scoople's situation. But I wonder if some of
16:06
Speaker 2: the same concepts apply. Like you just we all, you know,
16:09
Speaker 2: players always want to make it seem like it's going
16:11
Speaker 2: to be on the front end and in reality, and
16:14
Speaker 2: you start like keeping track of these things, cause I
16:16
Speaker 2: feel like reality it's it's always more on the back end.
16:21
Speaker 1: I would I would love the hell of that as
16:23
Speaker 1: a data journalism piece, where it's right when they when
16:25
Speaker 1: the players says they go and then and then you
16:28
Speaker 1: can track it. It's like who's most accurately knows their
16:31
Speaker 1: own body in terms of coming back from injurie. I
16:34
Speaker 1: think that'd be a lot of fun.
16:36
Speaker 2: And this is why the Tigers never talk about timelines,
16:38
Speaker 2: because they don't if it takes longer. They don't want
16:41
Speaker 2: us on here being like, well, the Tiger said he
16:43
Speaker 2: was going to be back on the twentieth and he's not.
16:47
Speaker 2: You know, that's that's the whole reason they do that.
16:50
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, frustrating, but quite reasonable and.
16:53
Speaker 2: Also because of the reality we talked about this, for
16:56
Speaker 2: everyone wants to circle a date on the calendar he's
16:58
Speaker 2: going to be back the twenty second, and like, that's
17:00
Speaker 2: not how it works. It's about the symptoms. It's about
17:04
Speaker 2: how players responding, and that can vary day by day.
17:07
Speaker 2: That can vary outing by outing. Like that is what
17:10
Speaker 2: the recovery process actually entails. It's not always just like
17:14
Speaker 2: pick a date, Oh it's six weeks from now, Okay,
17:16
Speaker 2: he'll be good bye then.
17:18
Speaker 1: Right right, So so you know, get to get to
17:22
Speaker 1: the hero of the day, Gage Workman, somebody who obviously
17:25
Speaker 1: has been a on the minds of Tigers fans for
17:31
Speaker 1: a while because he's from that famous you know, famous
17:33
Speaker 1: for multiple reasons, but famous twenty twenty draft, which obviously
17:36
Speaker 1: includes Torque, which includes Cold, Keith Dingler and Trick Who's
17:43
Speaker 1: you know they round that out.
17:44
Speaker 2: We will not speak of Daniel Cabrera.
17:50
Speaker 1: That name in a while, so so Gauge like, you know,
17:54
Speaker 1: he does the rule five thing last year, and eventually,
17:56
Speaker 1: obviously he's returned to the Tigers, and we had been
17:59
Speaker 1: kind of thinking, like, look, I don't know what, like
18:01
Speaker 1: a guy who is a veteran, you know, was a
18:03
Speaker 1: college guy and then has been the system for a while,
18:05
Speaker 1: has at least some major league experience, obviously not a lot,
18:08
Speaker 1: but some major league experience. Why not give him a
18:10
Speaker 1: call when all these injuries are like piling up. And
18:13
Speaker 1: finally it happened, and and it made for a great moment.
18:16
Speaker 1: First at bat, tie game, he comes up in a
18:20
Speaker 1: pinch hit situation and hits a home run. Uh you
18:24
Speaker 1: know it was It's thunder storms going on right now
18:27
Speaker 1: in North Texas. There was lightning striking. I kind of
18:30
Speaker 1: I kind of got like the natural vibes a little
18:32
Speaker 1: bit there. Code you're not gonna lie h Not not
18:35
Speaker 1: predicting that for old Gauge, but it was. It was
18:38
Speaker 1: a good moment for him and in a crucial piece, uh,
18:41
Speaker 1: to get the Tigers this much needed victory. Uh, you've
18:44
Speaker 1: obviously seen him around spring training and and all that stuff.
18:49
Speaker 1: Basically the entire hit, the entirety of his professional career.
18:53
Speaker 1: Uh what do you make of him kind of getting
18:55
Speaker 1: a shot he was hitting? Was it three fifty eight
18:58
Speaker 1: in Toledo?
18:59
Speaker 2: Like?
18:59
Speaker 1: And then and then making making the most of his opportunity.
19:02
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean good, good for gage workman a finally
19:05
Speaker 2: getting his chance. That makes you wonder why they didn't
19:08
Speaker 2: just do this a couple of weeks ago. But I digress,
19:13
Speaker 2: And and yeah, I mean easy to forget. This guy
19:15
Speaker 2: was rule fived last year, played with the Cubs in
19:18
Speaker 2: the White Sox and struggled mightily and had a huge
19:21
Speaker 2: whiff rate. And maybe that was part of the reason
19:23
Speaker 2: why the Tigers didn't do this a few a few
19:26
Speaker 2: days earlier. But clearly this is someone who earned his
19:30
Speaker 2: shot at some point when they needed to call on
19:32
Speaker 2: someone else. The body of work was a little bit,
19:36
Speaker 2: a little bit too good to overlook. I completely forgot
19:38
Speaker 2: he stopped switch hitting. I still think of him as
19:40
Speaker 2: a switch hitter. He only he only hits from the
19:43
Speaker 2: left side of the plate. He's done that the past
19:45
Speaker 2: I think two to three three years, so he's made
19:49
Speaker 2: some adjustments throughout his pro career. I mean, I remember
19:52
Speaker 2: back in the day Dan Hasty at West Michigan being like,
19:55
Speaker 2: this guy's a Dodgers prospect just because of how kind
19:58
Speaker 2: of tooled out he is. You know, he's big, he's strong,
20:00
Speaker 2: he's got kind of the loopy swing, but could create
20:03
Speaker 2: a lot of power, Like he can play middle of
20:06
Speaker 2: the diamond, maybe he has to move off later. And
20:09
Speaker 2: he was always really intriguing kind of for those reasons.
20:12
Speaker 2: He was just pretty toolsy. And then one of those
20:14
Speaker 2: guys where it gets to a certain point you think, okay,
20:17
Speaker 2: like maybe it's just never gonna happen, and then he
20:20
Speaker 2: gets left off the forty man and now here he is.
20:22
Speaker 2: Finally he gets a Tigers at bat, and what's he do.
20:26
Speaker 2: He homers, He breaks he breaks the game open. He
20:29
Speaker 2: kind of restores some hope for a Tigers team that
20:34
Speaker 2: was bleeding. So a really cool moment for for Gauge
20:38
Speaker 2: Workman and for his family as well. And yes, his
20:41
Speaker 2: middle name is Tater. As the broadcast pointed out, Yeah,
20:45
Speaker 2: that's a lot.
20:45
Speaker 1: That's that's a lot of fun. And like the the
20:48
Speaker 1: defensive versatility thing is also why like I was surprised that,
20:53
Speaker 1: I mean that might give him some version of staying
20:55
Speaker 1: power because you know, just in Toledo this year eleven
20:58
Speaker 1: games at second, at third base and sixteen fifteen star
21:05
Speaker 1: sixteen games at shortstop. So really emphasizing the shortstop, you
21:09
Speaker 1: would have to imagine like it wouldn't take that much
21:12
Speaker 1: to get him get his outfield glove oiled up and
21:15
Speaker 1: be able to you know, play some outfield either like
21:18
Speaker 1: this the tools he think, I'm glad you brought that
21:22
Speaker 1: up because this is something there. It's like maybe there's
21:25
Speaker 1: a whorld where he has like a little bit more
21:28
Speaker 1: of a of some staying power in Detroit, because let's
21:33
Speaker 1: be honest, like with everything that's going on, there's just
21:36
Speaker 1: not that much. There's not that much in terms of roadblocks,
21:41
Speaker 1: I would say, with everything that's going on with the team.
21:45
Speaker 1: So if you show something, then then they ought to
21:48
Speaker 1: like kind of ride you out a little bit because
21:50
Speaker 1: like this is a team that is in need of
21:53
Speaker 1: sparks and versatility. Well, you know, the versatility is there,
21:56
Speaker 1: and he just provided a spark. All right, We are
22:00
Speaker 1: going to talk about Winzel Perez in a second, but first, Cody,
22:05
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Speaker 1: Thank you, Sea Geek. All right, coming back here, Cody.
23:22
Speaker 1: You know, sometimes I like having the less than positive
23:26
Speaker 1: conversation about a player after they have a moment because
23:29
Speaker 1: it doesn't so that way doesn't make it feel like
23:31
Speaker 1: we're like piling on, you know what I mean, maybe
23:33
Speaker 1: we can just kind of do it like with more
23:35
Speaker 1: sound mind. And you know, Wenzel Perez did have a
23:38
Speaker 1: base knock today, you know, so credit to them. But
23:42
Speaker 1: it's getting to the point and we've we've talked about
23:45
Speaker 1: it before, but when things continue, we have to continue
23:48
Speaker 1: to talk about them. It's getting to the point where
23:52
Speaker 1: like when does the conversation start or are you just
23:55
Speaker 1: so depleted of guys that you know, are major league
23:58
Speaker 1: ready major League ten alence that you like, you don't
24:01
Speaker 1: want to add another variable, which is replacing what Winzel
24:05
Speaker 1: Perez at least slots to do. But it's it's not
24:09
Speaker 1: great right now, It's not great.
24:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's look, the misplay in the field that basically
24:16
Speaker 2: costs them a game in this series is certainly uh,
24:20
Speaker 2: certainly concerning. At the plate Winsild it's been kind of interesting,
24:25
Speaker 2: like he hasn't been good. Obviously, he's in one sixty
24:27
Speaker 2: nine to twenty one base percentage. It was like, let me,
24:31
Speaker 2: let me go look at the data, right because it
24:33
Speaker 2: doesn't feel like his bats have been all that competitive.
24:36
Speaker 2: And then you look at and it's like, well, it's
24:38
Speaker 2: he's not really whipping at all. Average exit velocity ninety
24:44
Speaker 2: miles an hour, Like you'll take that. The hard hit
24:46
Speaker 2: rate is there, he just hasn't really been driving it.
24:51
Speaker 2: Like the launch angle hasn't really been where you would
24:53
Speaker 2: want it to be. But some of it's not as
24:56
Speaker 2: bad as it appears. He's seventy seven at bats in
25:00
Speaker 2: his babb it is one sixty nine, so he has
25:04
Speaker 2: had literally like zero batted ball. Luck maybe that's bound
25:09
Speaker 2: to correct a little bit. I mean, you would like
25:11
Speaker 2: to see the launch angle sweet spot basically basically be
25:14
Speaker 2: hitting more line drives is what that means. But hey,
25:18
Speaker 2: if you don't chase, if you don't with and you
25:21
Speaker 2: maintained a ninety mile an hour average exit velocit that
25:24
Speaker 2: actually gives me a little bit of hope here for WINSL.
25:28
Speaker 2: And again the strikeouts ten K's five walks. You'd like
25:32
Speaker 2: to see a little more walks, but the punch outs
25:34
Speaker 2: haven't been as egregious as it might feel like. Right,
25:38
Speaker 2: So one of those where once I did a deeper dive,
25:41
Speaker 2: I was like, I don't know, especially considering you don't
25:45
Speaker 2: have other options at this point. I think you got
25:48
Speaker 2: to write it out with wind Sell a little bit
25:51
Speaker 2: and we will see what happens. But not as bad
25:56
Speaker 2: as I would have thought had I not looked a
25:59
Speaker 2: little deeper.
26:02
Speaker 1: That is fair. And and some of those metrics, which
26:04
Speaker 1: again if you guys subscribe on YouTube you can you
26:06
Speaker 1: can see it as we talk about it. But some
26:08
Speaker 1: of those metrics felt pretty like even the ones that
26:12
Speaker 1: are you know, bluer, feel like kind of reasonable Wentzel metrics,
26:17
Speaker 1: like you're never gonna, no, he's not gonna you know
26:19
Speaker 1: what I mean, Like it feels kind of within reason
26:22
Speaker 1: of the caliber player that he is, the problem though,
26:27
Speaker 1: is that you say, like maybe some bad batted ball
26:30
Speaker 1: luck and it could like you know, the water will
26:33
Speaker 1: find its level a little bit. The problem is that
26:35
Speaker 1: the water level is not that high. So like, even
26:38
Speaker 1: if you do get like the you know, the bounce
26:41
Speaker 1: back look aspect of it, it's not gonna be something
26:45
Speaker 1: that changes your season. That's just not the player that
26:48
Speaker 1: he is. And by the way, when this team's fully healthy,
26:50
Speaker 1: that's okay. But like as it is right now, the
26:55
Speaker 1: with the margin of air being so small, with all
26:58
Speaker 1: these injuries, it unfortunately dignify somebody like Wenzel Pariz who
27:02
Speaker 1: even if he's going well, it's still not you're still
27:07
Speaker 1: doing it as a result of him playing too much,
27:10
Speaker 1: which again is a symptom of a larger problem. So
27:12
Speaker 1: I just wanted to kind of monitor the situation from
27:16
Speaker 1: that angle of it.
27:18
Speaker 2: And for all the fine friends we have out there
27:20
Speaker 2: saying why not bring up Max Clark, I will point
27:23
Speaker 2: out Max Clark is hitting two oh seven so far
27:26
Speaker 2: in the month of May. Max, look, these things happen,
27:29
Speaker 2: I'm not worried about it. But Max has cooled, and uh,
27:34
Speaker 2: any idea that he was like knocking loudly and maybe
27:37
Speaker 2: they just have their hand forced like that that idea
27:40
Speaker 2: has pretty quickly cooled off the last couple of weeks.
27:45
Speaker 1: Can I say something real quick about the whole like
27:47
Speaker 1: Max Clark, like whenever he reaches like a national discussion,
27:51
Speaker 1: I think a good like PSA for for everybody is that, Like,
27:56
Speaker 1: if you want to know the real, like the real
28:01
Speaker 1: situation with Max Clark, listen to people like Cody, Listen
28:04
Speaker 1: to listen to people like the Tiger's minor League report
28:07
Speaker 1: that follow this stuff, like the MLB network hosts every
28:11
Speaker 1: single day are going to and it's not this is
28:14
Speaker 1: not a knock on them, Like every single day are
28:16
Speaker 1: gonna call for like why don't they bring up Max
28:18
Speaker 1: Clark because they see he's the number whatever prospect and
28:21
Speaker 1: you know his overall counting numbers are still good because
28:24
Speaker 1: of the hot start and blah blahlah blah, Like, don't
28:28
Speaker 1: take that as serious as what people like Cody and
28:32
Speaker 1: Roger and Chris and and you know all those guys say,
28:35
Speaker 1: because they're the ones that you know can actually tell
28:37
Speaker 1: you how the team looks at it, and the team
28:40
Speaker 1: is looking at it. They're they're not gonna try to
28:42
Speaker 1: hamper Max Clark's development to win a couple of games
28:45
Speaker 1: in mid May, if you could even think, if you
28:48
Speaker 1: even if you're confident that he would, And again he
28:50
Speaker 1: has has significantly cooled off, so it's not necessarily evidence
28:54
Speaker 1: that he that is guaranteed to happen. So I just
28:56
Speaker 1: wanted to put that out there, Like what when the
28:59
Speaker 1: prominent voice are calling for it, they're just kind of
29:01
Speaker 1: doing it because it makes sense, and it's exciting to
29:04
Speaker 1: call for a prospect to be called up in this situation,
29:07
Speaker 1: it just it's just not there. All right, let let's
29:13
Speaker 1: do a little exercise, Cody. I was kind of thinking
29:16
Speaker 1: of it. I like of a little bit of a
29:19
Speaker 1: like most players on the IL, so how important are they?
29:23
Speaker 1: Who are they missing the most? And some of it's
29:25
Speaker 1: kind of interesting and it gives us a way to
29:28
Speaker 1: almost appreciate, like what this team was supposed to be
29:32
Speaker 1: as we sit here with a nineteen and twenty two record.
29:36
Speaker 1: Parker medals? Remember him? Remember Parker medals? Parker?
29:39
Speaker 2: I didn't even mention him earlier. That feels like a
29:42
Speaker 2: million years ago when he got.
29:44
Speaker 1: Hurt still like among I don't know know, like among
29:48
Speaker 1: the leaders, but like the guy was a point three
29:51
Speaker 1: war when he got hurt like like like something something
29:56
Speaker 1: and just and then you and then you throw in
29:59
Speaker 1: obviously this can't be measured, but you throw in just
30:01
Speaker 1: the uh, the confidence to just be able to pencil
30:05
Speaker 1: him in at eight and wherever you want to put
30:08
Speaker 1: him in the batting order and then kind of figure
30:09
Speaker 1: out the rest of your roster. You know, your roster
30:12
Speaker 1: that day, the lineup that day like that. Sure that
30:16
Speaker 1: has certainly been missed, you know. So I think Parker
30:19
Speaker 1: remains at the top. Parker forever valuable even when not there.
30:23
Speaker 1: Unfortunately that's his story a little bit too much. But
30:25
Speaker 1: forever valuable even when not there. We talked about school ball,
30:29
Speaker 1: Hobby Carpenter. I don't necessarily want to do like a
30:32
Speaker 1: pecking order here, but like Hobby and his versatility, Carpenter
30:37
Speaker 1: and the way he makes other managers, you know, manage
30:41
Speaker 1: the game. Casey Mize, you know who obviously is is
30:46
Speaker 1: a pretty reliable guy in you're starting rotation with some
30:48
Speaker 1: upside labor. Torres talk about just penciling in somebody and
30:52
Speaker 1: and knowing what you're getting. Like the the problem is
30:55
Speaker 1: here that the a lot of the nones, I guess
30:58
Speaker 1: terror schoobll obviously we know they're not just injured, but
31:01
Speaker 1: they're they're knowingly injured, if that makes sense, And I
31:04
Speaker 1: think it's kind of that's like a good way to
31:07
Speaker 1: kind of summarize like what we're seeing and why we're
31:10
Speaker 1: seeing some of the things that we're seeing.
31:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, how about will vest In there too, We'll vest
31:16
Speaker 2: It had been a little weird what was going on
31:18
Speaker 2: with him. He had a cortizone injection, which I guess
31:21
Speaker 2: is a good sign, but for arm inflammation always a
31:24
Speaker 2: little bit scary. You miss that guy in the back
31:28
Speaker 2: end of your bullpen. I mean, kim Lee Jansen got
31:30
Speaker 2: a save today for like the first time since Christmas.
31:32
Speaker 2: It felt like, which is good, but like you're seeing
31:35
Speaker 2: you know, you can't pitch Finnigan every day and if
31:38
Speaker 2: you're not really loving you know where Kinley's at right now?
31:42
Speaker 2: Where Kinley you know, had a growing issue that he
31:45
Speaker 2: was pitching through. Having that third kind of back end,
31:49
Speaker 2: reliable arm makes a difference, Like I think, if I
31:52
Speaker 2: had to pick two, like, I don't know, you miss
31:54
Speaker 2: all these guys, You miss bats for sure, you miss
31:57
Speaker 2: Parker and his defense, but just pitching man is where
32:01
Speaker 2: it comes comes down. With to me, So you miss
32:04
Speaker 2: Casey Ma is just someone else you know that's kind
32:06
Speaker 2: of a rock and your rotation and will vest because
32:10
Speaker 2: what they're going through right now, like they can weather
32:13
Speaker 2: a little bit every now and then you can get
32:16
Speaker 2: a good enough pitching performance like you did Sunday to
32:19
Speaker 2: win a game, but they're gonna be I think downstream
32:21
Speaker 2: effects from from this from how how often you're using
32:26
Speaker 2: your bullpen, like how long can you get away with it?
32:29
Speaker 2: Basically I think the Tigers miss pitching right now.
32:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then I'll take the hitting side too and
32:36
Speaker 1: highlight hobby just for a second, because like with some
32:39
Speaker 1: of the shenanigans that we witnessed, which again the Zach
32:42
Speaker 1: short you know, electing free agency and then you know
32:45
Speaker 1: signing and you know that whole fiask not fiasco, but
32:49
Speaker 1: just sort of like roster stuff that was going into
32:51
Speaker 1: the weekend. Like you don't need to do any of
32:56
Speaker 1: that if hobby is healthy, because then you could then
32:59
Speaker 1: you have of a you know, like a high a
33:04
Speaker 1: high quality obviously with some some flaws there, but high
33:07
Speaker 1: quality glove at you know, shortstop, and then also the
33:10
Speaker 1: center field that you don't have to over extend some
33:12
Speaker 1: of these guys that were seen possibly be over extended
33:15
Speaker 1: as overextended as well. So like it's the more I
33:22
Speaker 1: think about it, the more I'm like nineteen and twenty two,
33:24
Speaker 1: like take a deep breath, like it could be it
33:28
Speaker 1: could be a lot, a lot worse.
33:31
Speaker 2: And yeah, yeah, that's that's kind of a great point.
33:34
Speaker 2: I didn't I didn't really expect this to be like
33:35
Speaker 2: a positive podcast, but I can't. I can't stop looking
33:39
Speaker 2: at those ale standings and being like, it seems like
33:42
Speaker 2: the world is on fire right now, and if you
33:45
Speaker 2: can just stay afloat, keep your head above water, this
33:49
Speaker 2: team might be just fine. Now that's the big question.
33:52
Speaker 2: Is it going to continue getting worse before it gets better?
33:57
Speaker 2: That's kind of the question for the next week two
33:59
Speaker 2: weeks plus that that we're gonna have to wait and see.
34:03
Speaker 1: Yeah. And then I was talking with my dad, uh
34:07
Speaker 1: this weekend, and and he's in his old man wisdom.
34:12
Speaker 1: I guess he's taken a real macro approach where he's like, well,
34:15
Speaker 1: look what happened at the end of the season, like,
34:18
Speaker 1: you know, into the regular season last year. Uh, I'm
34:21
Speaker 1: just not gonna get like, uh, you know, it's it's
34:24
Speaker 1: too everything probably pre All Star break is probably too
34:27
Speaker 1: early in his mind.
34:28
Speaker 5: So so it's like I think he's right, Like you
34:36
Speaker 5: just don't know, we don't have to do the whole
34:38
Speaker 5: trade deadline thing and like they're gonna have to get
34:41
Speaker 5: this or are they gonna be sellers that It's just
34:43
Speaker 5: like just have games like today where.
34:47
Speaker 1: You have a bullpen day but you use less pictures
34:50
Speaker 1: than your opponent, like weird weird baseball isms, the flairty
34:53
Speaker 1: start against the Red Sox, you know, and then and
34:56
Speaker 1: then like Wentzell's probably not gonna let ball skipped through
35:01
Speaker 1: his glove like in that kind of situation, like the
35:03
Speaker 1: rest of the season, you know, like the all these
35:05
Speaker 1: little things piling up, you know, survive in advance a
35:10
Speaker 1: little bit with with the injuries. We probably are a
35:13
Speaker 1: little bit too positive, but again a nice story with
35:15
Speaker 1: Gauge gotta win, Jansen save like all these things occurred,
35:19
Speaker 1: you know Spencer, you know, getting getting a base knock there.
35:22
Speaker 1: Riley Green continued the rake, which we probably need to
35:25
Speaker 1: be talking a little bit more really, yeah, and we
35:28
Speaker 1: and we will, but like but you know, like in
35:32
Speaker 1: terms of just like things to hang on to, you
35:35
Speaker 1: can hang on to good news with school after what
35:37
Speaker 1: it could have been devastating, and then the fact that
35:41
Speaker 1: you're not losing ground. It doesn't matter what like at
35:44
Speaker 1: this time, it doesn't matter how fast you're going. It's
35:47
Speaker 1: about where your competition is, and the competition is right
35:50
Speaker 1: in sight. And so so that's about as much as
35:54
Speaker 1: you can ask for.
35:54
Speaker 2: There's been a lot of Murphy's Law for the Tigers.
35:57
Speaker 2: Everything that can go wrong has gone wrong, and they
35:59
Speaker 2: are one and a half games out of the first place,
36:02
Speaker 2: and they are half a game at the time of recording.
36:04
Speaker 2: We still have a couple of night games going on there.
36:06
Speaker 2: Half a game out of a wild card spot. It
36:09
Speaker 2: is May. We probably shouldn't be talking like playoffs and standings,
36:13
Speaker 2: but that just tells you. What that tells you is
36:16
Speaker 2: that it's May, and that it's really early, and that
36:19
Speaker 2: it seems like the room is on fire, and it
36:22
Speaker 2: kind of is. But they you got plenty of time
36:25
Speaker 2: to put out this fire. Yeah, absolutely.
36:29
Speaker 1: And Zach McKinstry's back, and we haven't had like a
36:31
Speaker 1: Zach McKinstry like moment yet, but like, like he's back.
36:35
Speaker 1: That will obviously help with a lot of things.
36:36
Speaker 2: Too, So.
36:38
Speaker 1: All right, I mean on that, I don't know, is
36:40
Speaker 1: there anything negative you want to say? It just kind
36:42
Speaker 1: of like round out this.
36:45
Speaker 2: Kevin mcgonagall's cooled off man's the world over? Is he
36:48
Speaker 2: a boss? Do you think?
36:49
Speaker 1: Yeah?
36:50
Speaker 2: Should they undo that contract?
36:53
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like contingent on him not going like one
36:55
Speaker 1: for twenty in any stretch or whatever, and.
36:57
Speaker 2: They stretch for his entire career. Uh, he's been popping
37:01
Speaker 2: the ball up a lot, but I that the crazy
37:04
Speaker 2: thing is he's so he's been struggling, and like it
37:07
Speaker 2: doesn't even watching him, it doesn't. I still feel like
37:10
Speaker 2: he's going to get a hit when he's up there.
37:11
Speaker 2: Like the approach is still pretty good. The swing that, like,
37:14
Speaker 2: the the takes are still good. He's something's calling pull
37:19
Speaker 2: causing him to pull off some balls and pop a
37:21
Speaker 2: few up. But uh, way too early for me to
37:24
Speaker 2: be worried about Kevin McGonagall.
37:26
Speaker 1: Yeah, And like I said, I don't think he's even
37:28
Speaker 1: been like adjusted to or whatever he's been adjusted to
37:31
Speaker 1: his entire major league career. I feel like, so you
37:34
Speaker 1: know that in terms of like you know, letting water
37:37
Speaker 1: finds his level, when water finds it level with him again.
37:40
Speaker 1: That will be quite exciting, all right. You guys can
37:43
Speaker 1: follow us on X for me on Twitter at Puddy Stevenhagen,
37:46
Speaker 1: I am at keran Onscorse, Declely pot page at Tiger Territory, Underscore, YouTube, Apple, Spotify,
37:51
Speaker 1: You guys know what to do. We appreciate it of you,
37:52
Speaker 1: hope you guys had fun Mother's Day and celebrated the
37:56
Speaker 1: women that brought us into his life and helped foster
37:58
Speaker 1: our love of this game. So so happy Mother's Day
38:00
Speaker 1: to everybody out there as well. So for David Hagen,
38:04
Speaker 1: I'm Kune Stickley there. We have great there