Latest / For Azeroth!: A World of Warcraft Podcast / #391 - For Azeroth!: “The Curse of Bonus Rolls"

Transcript

#391 - For Azeroth!: “The Curse of Bonus Rolls" · For Azeroth!: A World of Warcraft Podcast

• 0:00
  Where do I want this power game? Do I care if I'm really strong
• 0:03
  in week two? Well, no, because it's Week 2.
• 0:05
  I want to make sure that I am set up for success down the
• 0:07
  road. So I'm going to do the thing
• 0:09
  that guarantees I never get a duplicate, which is the bonus
• 0:13
  rule. Victory for the Forsaken.
• 0:16
  For Lauderon. For the Karen tour.
• 0:20
  For. Pandaria.
• 0:24
  For calendar to the. Burning region for Gilnaeus but
• 0:29
  has not done for the Lich King, for the Sindori, for the
• 0:37
  Alliance, for the Horde, for Azeroth.
• 0:44
  Hello and welcome back to another episode of For Azeroth.
• 0:47
  My name is Manny, AKA the true villain Manny and keeping it OG
• 0:52
  unchanged for the wonderful, the magnificent, the lovely.
• 0:57
  Lex Rantz Lex, how are you and how's the World of Warcraft been
• 1:01
  treating you? I am good.
• 1:03
  The World of Warcraft has been treating me good.
• 1:05
  I am officially locked in as a healer.
• 1:07
  I, you know, did my first, you know, run through, did my best.
• 1:10
  I'm certainly not the best healer on my squad for hanging
• 1:13
  in there. We're holding our own and I'm
• 1:15
  having a lot of fun. We are.
• 1:17
  So we last night, last Thursday, my goodness, my brain is, is not
• 1:25
  on. So best of luck to everyone
• 1:27
  listening. Hopefully that's good content.
• 1:29
  Last Thursday we tried for guy Rotfall, whatever the dude, the
• 1:34
  new one. And we quickly determined that
• 1:37
  we had a few of our top DPS out. And it was quickly determined
• 1:41
  that perhaps we needed them if we were going to take care of
• 1:44
  business on him. But that's OK because we've all
• 1:46
  of our DPS back this week. I think if I am forgetting that
• 1:50
  you posted in absences, it's not that I I'm not considering your
• 1:53
  DPS, it's that I'm stupid. It took me, I I still don't even
• 1:56
  remember the name of the guy that we did last time.
• 1:58
  We're fine. We're fine.
• 1:59
  But so this Thursday we were hoping to hit it hard.
• 2:01
  We were hoping to see if we can get spore guy down and then get
• 2:05
  the wind chime down. Wouldn't that be amazing?
• 2:07
  Arc in one night. I'm convinced for getting arc.
• 2:10
  Is everyone else convinced for getting a OTCI?
• 2:12
  Don't know, but I'm convinced. You're not getting AOTC, we're
• 2:15
  getting AOTC. Many.
• 2:17
  No, no, there's there's actually no ATAOTC.
• 2:19
  You may defeat the boss, they're just.
• 2:22
  She she's talking about Louvre. Oh, Laura.
• 2:24
  Oh, whoops. Well.
• 2:26
  We're gonna do both. So that's the thing.
• 2:27
  We're gonna get the spore guy down less than half the night,
• 2:30
  killed, done, whatever. Great.
• 2:32
  Then we're gonna go get official AOTC.
• 2:34
  We're gonna kill Wind Chime. Not even worried about it.
• 2:36
  Not even concerned. So AOTC and Spore dude one
• 2:39
  night. OK, I feel so bad.
• 2:43
  I'm gonna get like all the hate mail from like Timberwalker
• 2:46
  Evans being like, how could you say we're not getting LTC?
• 2:49
  Manny, I cannot stress enough. The more mistakes you make, the
• 2:53
  more people want to tell you that you're stupid.
• 2:56
  The the when you I, I've, I've said this before, once you learn
• 2:59
  that fact about content creation that making a mistake will make
• 3:04
  people go into your comments and correct you and therefore you
• 3:07
  will get pushed up in the algorithm and therefore you'll
• 3:09
  get more views. It ruins content for because it
• 3:13
  is so clear to me how often people do this on purpose where
• 3:16
  they'll like just slip in like the wrong colored bead with
• 3:19
  their sorting beads or they'll like put some stupid typo in
• 3:23
  their captions or whatever. And I'm like, I know, I know you
• 3:26
  did that for the clicks. I know.
• 3:28
  And I and yet I still want to go in and tell them, by the way,
• 3:31
  you did this wrong. So I guess I'm just an idiot.
• 3:34
  I I'm, I'm never going to prescribe to that, but Sean,
• 3:37
  would you ever willingly, willfully throw in some mistake
• 3:42
  into the show just to farm for engagement?
• 3:46
  I've done it in every podcast I've ever been on back to 2012,
• 3:51
  every single episode of every podcast I've ever been on,
• 3:56
  whether that's Cartridge Club, Cartridge Club weekly, whether
• 3:59
  it's Game Buzz, whether it's Recruiter Friend, whether it's
• 4:01
  weekly No Lever or Azeroth guesting on Live Laugh Lore.
• 4:07
  Any podcast I've ever been on, I make sure I say one thing
• 4:11
  confidently wrong because Lex is right.
• 4:14
  Nothing drives engagement more than the intense need for the
• 4:18
  crawfish to correct me. Nothing, nothing.
• 4:22
  And I do would like I would like to officially apologize to Dons
• 4:24
  and his kids. I spoke before I was introduced
• 4:27
  and I broke the surprise of whether or not I might be here
• 4:30
  prior to Manny sang Sean. So I apologize Don's and Don's
• 4:36
  minions. Also, Sean, I want to know how
• 4:38
  the World of Warcraft is treating you.
• 4:41
  The World of Warcraft has been treating me great, Lex.
• 4:43
  I've mostly been just prepping alts for levelling to 90 when
• 4:47
  Turbulent Time Waves comes out. It's a combination of doing a
• 4:51
  round tour of all the delves at level 80 which gets me to 82 and
• 4:54
  then I hold those quests and then I go to Nitol or Val the
• 4:59
  new zones from 12 point O .7 and West they're doing world quests
• 5:03
  until I hit 84 ish 84 1/2 and then 84 1/2 or so I'll go.
• 5:09
  I'll wait for turbulent time was on June 30th.
• 5:11
  I'll do 4 turbulent time waste dungeons which should put me
• 5:15
  close to 86 or I will do as many as it takes to get to 86 which
• 5:19
  will then give me my Max experience buff and then I will
• 5:21
  turn in all of my delve quests at 86 which will immediately
• 5:24
  make me 90. I have prepped 4 alts for
• 5:28
  levelling to 90 when turbulent time was comes out and in a
• 5:33
  shocking turn of events I built an entirely base UI on the PTR
• 5:39
  and sent no less than 17 feedback reports to Blizzard
• 5:44
  while doing it and they changed one of the things that I put
• 5:49
  feedback on. That's pretty good.
• 5:50
  That's amazing. Can you send feedback on the
• 5:52
  thing where it means that every time I log I join a raid group
• 5:55
  it doesn't show me my raid frames and I literally have to
• 5:58
  open the edit mode to make my raid frames show up because
• 6:01
  otherwise there's no way to activate them and there's no way
• 6:04
  to see any frames. Do you think you can maybe like
• 6:07
  log into my account and send that?
• 6:09
  Because apparently they don't listen to me when I put in the
• 6:11
  bug bug note. No, no, no.
• 6:12
  That that that might be unique to you, Lex, 'cause that does
• 6:16
  not happen to me on any of my characters.
• 6:19
  It's so annoying. I mean, I know it's I mean maybe
• 6:23
  it is some weird setting I have, but it it does not make sense
• 6:25
  for it to be a setting 'cause it's not that.
• 6:26
  I open edit mode and then I change something.
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  I literally every time I join a raid group I have to open edit
• 6:31
  mode and then close edit mode and there are my raid frames.
• 6:36
  Danny just told Lex she was imagining an experience she's
• 6:38
  having because it's never happened to him, no.
• 6:41
  She's like, she's gaslighting me at that at this point because
• 6:45
  like that's like I experienced it.
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  So everybody's experiencing it. I'm just like I have.
• 6:49
  I have never come across what you.
• 6:51
  Talking about. Nobody in my Ray team has like
• 6:54
  Ray team has ever. I thought, see, I thought when
• 6:57
  you said it was unique to me, I thought you were like saying,
• 6:59
  oh, Lex, you're so special and fancy.
• 7:01
  You have unique problems. Well, you're gaslighting me,
• 7:04
  Lex. This this this problem is
• 7:06
  something that you've done that you're trying to like.
• 7:08
  Get the the. Wow, the fellow versus the six.
• 7:12
  Please I'm I'm begging somebody to tell me what to do to make
• 7:16
  this stop happening because it is so annoying and I want to do
• 7:19
  the. Streamers go into raid raid
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  groups and not have to be like I'm going to go up with my edit
• 7:24
  vote to get I. Don't want to do that either.
• 7:27
  Lex, I want you to know that you are the victim here, and I used
• 7:31
  to believe victims. I I didn't say that's not
• 7:35
  happening to her. I don't think it's.
• 7:37
  Sorry, this is not exciting to anyone who's listening to this
• 7:41
  because this is an audio format and I very carefully try not to
• 7:44
  talk to chat during podcasting because I understand that's
• 7:47
  boring to listen to. However, I care significantly
• 7:50
  more about being right and somebody in chat just said that
• 7:54
  they had the same issue and they had to swap to grid.
• 7:57
  And if you'd like to be screamed at by by Lex in the middle of
• 8:00
  the podcast, you can oh, we've learned we're going live and you
• 8:03
  can gain that information by joining our discord at bit dot
• 8:05
  LY slash fast discord. If we say Don's one more time,
• 8:09
  we're going to have to send him a bill for an ad placement.
• 8:14
  OK, well, I'm glad that there's been so much engagement with
• 8:20
  your UI and that Sean is turning creating ults that he will
• 8:26
  probably barely ever play into another sweaty farm.
• 8:31
  But let's talk about nicer things like 12.1.
• 8:35
  Because right after we finished recording last episode, before
• 8:40
  we even posted it, the World of Warcraft team came out with a
• 8:45
  nice little Wow cast. They put forward all this
• 8:49
  information, many, many articles about the next major patch in
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  the Midnight Saga 12.1, The Curse of ulatec.
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  So we're going to the Troll Island.
• 9:04
  We're going to just glaze right past the fact that Sean was
• 9:09
  right again, from whatever sources that he gets it from.
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  And we're going to talk about like the meat and potatoes of
• 9:16
  this patch, because there's a lot to talk about.
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  And Sean has been saying that we've got very few precious time
• 9:24
  to talk about it. So what would you like to talk
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  about first, Sean? How freaking excited I am for
• 9:33
  12.1. I think I just want a blanket
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  statement that everybody, if you, if you've been listening to
• 9:37
  the show for a while, you know that heading into midnight and
• 9:40
  then the first couple of weeks of midnight was rough for me.
• 9:43
  It was not fun listening to my takes on the game.
• 9:47
  I don't imagine a lot of frustrations, a lot of concerns
• 9:50
  and a lot of worry that 12.1 might be the end for me.
• 9:55
  Between these articles they've released in the Wow Cast video
• 9:57
  and just stuff that we've seen being on the PTR.
• 10:00
  There are system changes coming in that I think are going to set
• 10:04
  the game up long term to be the best version of the game it's
• 10:08
  ever been. From the way that they handle
• 10:10
  loot and heroic raid to the way that they're handling bonus
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  rolls to the way that they're handling catalyst charges,
• 10:16
  everything about the systems that they're putting in place
• 10:19
  seems really good. And they just released an
• 10:20
  article today saying, hey, we hear you.
• 10:22
  We get it. You can't see any of these
• 10:24
  frontals. You're an aging player base.
• 10:28
  We're going to help. And now they have helped in the
• 10:32
  past and then sort of fallen behind and not implemented these
• 10:36
  changes all over the place with the when they did the swirl
• 10:38
  change a couple of tears ago. So, but I'm going to give them
• 10:41
  the benefit of the doubt that we will at least get a couple of
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  tears of these good clean visuals and everything's coming
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  up. Everything's coming up.
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  Players, man. It just feels like August 11th
• 10:51
  is going to be a big, big day for everybody when 12.1
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  launches. OK, So your initial impressions,
• 11:00
  Lex? I, I mean, I'm also excited.
• 11:04
  I will say I'm a little, I am feeling sad not at World of
• 11:09
  Warcraft. I'm feeling sad because all of
• 11:10
  this is stuff that would be very, very exciting to me on my
• 11:13
  Demon Hunter, right? All the new delves and Prey and
• 11:15
  everything like that. And that content is less
• 11:17
  exciting to me as a priest. And I'm having a little bit of a
• 11:20
  like mental debate of like, I think I enjoy raiding on a
• 11:24
  priest more than raiding on a Demon Hunter, but I think I
• 11:26
  enjoy playing the game more as a Demon Hunter.
• 11:28
  But nobody cares about that. That's not what we're talking
• 11:30
  about. I think it looks cool.
• 11:31
  I think once again, it's a bunch of wins for single players,
• 11:35
  which I I think is really cool for the the group as a whole.
• 11:40
  I do think that I'm I'm curious about the layers, the world boss
• 11:43
  layers. That's the one thing that I kind
• 11:44
  of felt myself consistently stopping on as like, I don't
• 11:48
  know if this is better or worse. Like on the one hand, I do think
• 11:51
  that it's fun when there is genuine open world content you
• 11:54
  can kind of fly into and like experience whatever.
• 11:57
  On the other hand, when was the last time somebody did that with
• 11:59
  the world boss? Right?
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  Like you always go into the group Finder and you join your
• 12:01
  little group and you go. So like, do I feel better about
• 12:07
  it being in a layer or not? I don't know.
• 12:09
  We'll see. But overall, I mean, yeah, I
• 12:11
  think I'm, I'm less on the nitty gritty as you guys.
• 12:15
  I think it also affects me a little bit less because my play
• 12:17
  style's a little bit looser. So like, you know, things like
• 12:21
  this specific visualizations or UI changes or stuff doesn't hit
• 12:24
  me as hard. So I'm a little bit more like,
• 12:26
  how do the vibes feel? And yeah, I mean, like the vibes
• 12:28
  feel cool and and there's a lot of really cool stuff.
• 12:31
  And again, I think this is a really midnight is a really good
• 12:34
  time to be a a solo player. And it seems like there's a lot
• 12:37
  of really exciting solo. Oh my God, I'm so excited for
• 12:39
  the Nemesis or not the Nemesis. This is the one where we're
• 12:42
  gonna have the labyrinth, right? No, that's all.
• 12:45
  Next patch 12 point 1.5. Oh, we did just say new Nemesis
• 12:48
  and I OK, OK, OK, OK, I I'll learn to read one day I'll learn
• 12:53
  what word they use. Actually, that's what I'll learn
• 12:54
  one day I'll learn learn the word they use for different
• 12:57
  delve things. But yeah, I mean, eventually
• 13:00
  we'll get there. We'll get to the Megadel.
• 13:01
  That'll be very fun. And I'll I'll stop thinking it's
• 13:04
  every single patch. We're going to we're going to go
• 13:07
  into details, Lex, on the loot stuff later.
• 13:09
  I assume that it's going to be a game changer for Timbermont
• 13:12
  Tavern specifically and any guilds between like my level and
• 13:16
  your level. It's a massive positive net win.
• 13:20
  The way they're handling loot in in raid going forward, it's
• 13:23
  going to be amazing. Yeah, I, I, I do fully agree.
• 13:26
  I think, I mean, also, like you said, we'll dig into this a
• 13:28
  little bit more in a, in a second, but I, I think it maybe
• 13:34
  this is unique to us and we do tend to keep it pretty like
• 13:38
  calm. But I I do think the rules can
• 13:40
  sometimes lead to some bad feelings and some like stress
• 13:44
  when like people are trying to parse out like, OK, well like.
• 13:48
  Who? Quote UN quote deserves this
• 13:50
  more. And so I think the more we can
• 13:52
  turn loot solo and into an individual thing, I I think
• 13:55
  that's for the best. I think that that makes people
• 13:57
  happier and and leads to to fewer hurt feelings.
• 14:01
  I mean, let's go into it right now 'cause we're talking about
• 14:03
  the loot. So Sean, tell us the changes
• 14:06
  that they're doing for loot. Let's start with the raid loot
• 14:09
  and the Great Vault, and then we can lead that into the Mythic.
• 14:14
  How that affects Mythic Plus? For sure, So raid loot is now
• 14:18
  being updated to match mythic plus and delves or we're open
• 14:23
  world content I should say. So mythic plus when you complete
• 14:26
  a + 10 on your weekly you know you do a weekly plus 10 that
• 14:30
  gives you hero track gear but your vault reward is myth track.
• 14:34
  So your vault reward is 1 track higher than the in game reward
• 14:38
  from the content you complete. Open world is the same.
• 14:41
  If you complete a tier 8 delve you get a champion track piece
• 14:43
  at the end. But you get a hero track piece
• 14:45
  in your vault. Raid has been lagging behind
• 14:47
  that since the great vault was implemented.
• 14:49
  You cleared the the tier. If you cleared the raid on
• 14:52
  heroic you got a hero track piece in the vault.
• 14:55
  They are now updating this so that it matches the way that
• 14:58
  mythic plus and delves work. So when you complete the raid on
• 15:02
  LFR normal heroic difficulty, the vault will drop the next
• 15:10
  year up for that week. So if you killed 2 heroic raid
• 15:13
  bosses, you will have one, one of six myth track item in your
• 15:18
  vault from those bosses that you killed.
• 15:20
  This is huge because it's going to allow people to get loot from
• 15:25
  those early heroic bosses on mythic track.
• 15:27
  And for people that are brought like mythic progression bosses,
• 15:30
  now you'll be able to get loot from the last bosses before you
• 15:33
  fight them to help you kill them.
• 15:34
  Because a lot of times, typically people will get that
• 15:36
  loot at the end of the season. And then it's like, well, I've
• 15:37
  got it, but now we're not raiding anymore.
• 15:40
  And not to leave Mythic raid out of the out in the cold, they're
• 15:45
  adjusting that as well every time.
• 15:47
  Every vault track for mythic raid will drop a six of six myth
• 15:52
  track item. So if you kill a heroic boss,
• 15:54
  you get one of six myth track item in the vault.
• 15:56
  You kill 2 mythic bosses, you get a six of six myth track item
• 16:00
  in the vault, except for the last two bosses.
• 16:03
  Now this is where there is some pushback from the Mythic Plus
• 16:07
  community, but I think a lot of it is bluster and misplaced.
• 16:11
  But the the pushback is that on the last two bosses, if you kill
• 16:15
  the last two bosses of the raid on mythic, they will drop a nine
• 16:18
  of six loot equivalent from the from the from in the in the
• 16:23
  vault, which is big. It's like a whole item level
• 16:27
  upgraded higher, but it's yeah, it is a reward for killing those
• 16:32
  last two. So the people at the very top
• 16:34
  end of mythic plus the title pushers are saying, well this
• 16:37
  isn't fair. You're not removing the need for
• 16:39
  me, but still mythic raid to get the best loot to push for title
• 16:43
  keys. But there has never been a large
• 16:46
  enough gap in item level to to where that three item level
• 16:51
  difference would prevent you from getting title versus the
• 16:55
  world first keys. Like in the history of title,
• 16:57
  it's always been a gap larger than what gap will be present
• 17:00
  there for the item level getting it.
• 17:02
  That's why I think it's I think it's a lot of people that are
• 17:05
  that are knee jerk reaction upset, but they don't have to be
• 17:08
  because other than that it's a net win.
• 17:10
  And then bonus rolls, because of the way bonus rolls work.
• 17:13
  Whenever you bonus roll an item from any source that you do it,
• 17:17
  you get the item from the equivalent drop that it would be
• 17:20
  in the vault. So now you can bonus roll a
• 17:24
  heroic raid boss and get the myth track version of that item.
• 17:30
  You're smart because you would now have the option to choose a
• 17:33
  bonus roll from week one in the vault.
• 17:35
  If you're smart the first five weeks of the tier and you're
• 17:39
  somebody who will can easily clear through AOTC early on and
• 17:44
  then push into mythic. Like if you're clearing AOTC
• 17:46
  week 1 or Week 2, this is I'm talking to you specifically, you
• 17:49
  can take those bonus rolls and within 5 weeks you can guarantee
• 17:53
  you have every loot item off of the last boss of the raid on 6
• 17:58
  on a myth track level to then help you prod further.
• 18:01
  But that that is, I am specifically speaking to people
• 18:03
  who will clear AOTC in the first week or second week that can do
• 18:07
  that, not anybody who takes longer to clear AOTC and anybody
• 18:11
  who's clearing the raid faster will do other things.
• 18:16
  One question in regards to the bonus rolls with rare and super
• 18:21
  rare items, where does that fall on the track?
• 18:24
  Is that for like let's use the mythic is that 9 out of 6 for
• 18:30
  the let's say second boss drops a super rare neck piece that is
• 18:35
  one of those special drops that's that's denoted as rare
• 18:39
  and super rare. What?
• 18:41
  What's the track for that? They'll be 6 of 6, the the 9 of
• 18:45
  6 is just the last two bosses. Just the last two bosses, OK,
• 18:49
  because sometimes those items are above the regular loot
• 18:54
  table. OK, So Lex, from that little
• 19:01
  thing and what you know of it, what's your what's your thoughts
• 19:04
  about this? I mean, I think, I think it's
• 19:07
  it's a big win. I agree.
• 19:09
  I think that also having more guaranteed loot is I think a
• 19:14
  positive. I will say the like, you know,
• 19:16
  psych major in me is curious if people will actually dislike it
• 19:20
  because it won't trigger their little gambling brains, right?
• 19:23
  Like if, if you all you get loot when you click the get loot now
• 19:26
  button, if that will be potentially like less fun in
• 19:32
  ways that people can't even put their finger on.
• 19:35
  But I mean, I, I think it's objectively a win.
• 19:37
  The the one complaint that I have heard is that it will
• 19:42
  drastically reduce the value of gear from raid, right.
• 19:47
  Overwhelmingly people are going to be gearing up with their
• 19:49
  bonus rolls and with their great fall loot since it's so much
• 19:53
  better. And and so getting gear off of
• 19:57
  the raid in general will like the the raid will feel less like
• 19:59
  a a gear push. I will say to that, I think.
• 20:05
  If you are running raid for gear, it's such a low gear drop
• 20:12
  in general. I mean, and like there's so much
• 20:14
  time commitment per gear item, which maybe isn't, I actually
• 20:18
  don't know that it is statistically like worse than
• 20:20
  mythic plus, but because it is like you're committing a full
• 20:23
  night more or less, and you could very easily walk out with
• 20:27
  nothing. I, I've, I've never, maybe it's
• 20:29
  just me, you know, as I, as I'm saying all this, I'm like, well,
• 20:31
  you can also do that with mythic plus, right?
• 20:33
  It, it's quite possible to choose that I personally do not
• 20:36
  view raid as a gear push. And every time I've been like, I
• 20:40
  want to go to raid to get gear, that's just kind of ended with
• 20:44
  me feeling bad at the end of the night.
• 20:46
  So I think that's OK. I think that if raid is
• 20:48
  primarily a thing you go into because you're going to get your
• 20:51
  gear at the end and also you want to hang out with your
• 20:53
  buddies, I think I personally think that's maybe a more
• 20:56
  healthy way to approach it. And it, it also means that
• 20:59
  you're less likely to like, you know, be pissed that you, your
• 21:01
  bist dropped, but somebody else got it.
• 21:03
  And you're like, I was just in here for the best.
• 21:07
  But yes, I, I, I, I can understand the frustration of
• 21:10
  like, well, I'm not getting the rewards.
• 21:12
  Like I rating doesn't feel inherently rewarding to me,
• 21:16
  although, I mean, but then you bonus roll and it's rewarding
• 21:18
  again. So all of that to say, I think
• 21:20
  it's a win. I, I've, I've heard some people
• 21:22
  express some concerns about the like how it's going to feel
• 21:26
  overall, but I think that it's, it's going to be a good change
• 21:28
  and I think that it's going to help rating team.
• 21:30
  And I also think it's going to help rating teams gear up on
• 21:32
  rating a little bit more, right? You know, that's the thing we've
• 21:35
  talked about. And you know, you were just
• 21:36
  saying, Sean, people like mythic plusers are frustrated.
• 21:38
  They feel like they have to mythic, right?
• 21:40
  Raters are frustrated. We feel like we have to mythic
• 21:42
  plus, right? And I overwhelmingly think that
• 21:45
  we should move away from a system or we should move towards
• 21:47
  a system where you can gear basically in the way you want
• 21:51
  to. And I think that's this is one
• 21:52
  of those steps to that, right? It's making it possible to be
• 21:55
  more valuable gear wise in rating because you have your
• 21:59
  bonus rules, because you have your higher level grade fault.
• 22:02
  So raters who don't want a mythic plus feel a little bit
• 22:05
  more like they can leave that aside.
• 22:08
  Yeah, this, this breathes life into heroic rating.
• 22:11
  Like heroic rating typically falls off the deeper into the
• 22:14
  season, but it will stay, it'll stay busy because people are
• 22:18
  getting those myth track items from it.
• 22:20
  I think there is some potential loss of people on rosters of
• 22:25
  like mid to late mythic teams. You might see some of them who
• 22:29
  are literally only there for gear.
• 22:31
  So you know what I can get it from pugging heroic.
• 22:33
  I'm I'm not going to raid, but I think that's healthier overall
• 22:36
  for those teams. You don't want people in your
• 22:38
  roster that are literally only there because they feel like
• 22:40
  they need an item to play the content they actually want to
• 22:42
  play. So in that case, it's a less is
• 22:45
  more situation. It's I'm super, I learned this
• 22:49
  term today. Bullish.
• 22:51
  I'm very bullish on the 12.1 changes to to raid gear
• 22:55
  specifically and all of the systems.
• 22:58
  I think all the systems changes they've made so far look pretty
• 23:00
  good. I wonder, I wonder about the
• 23:07
  timing of getting the roles. We were talking about this on
• 23:12
  the last episode that you were way Lex, where we were talking
• 23:15
  about the bonus roles and like, oh, if they come back this time,
• 23:19
  sorry, rather the same time next season, it won't be that bad.
• 23:24
  Obviously they're going to change the balance between raid
• 23:28
  versus Mythic plus and they have done that.
• 23:31
  It is one roll to get a loot from a raid boss, one roll to
• 23:35
  get loot from the end of a dungeon.
• 23:37
  And that helps a bit. But I think that the real victim
• 23:43
  might be the Great Vault itself because they're coming in on
• 23:49
  week 1. Now this is something that is a
• 23:51
  min Max sort of thing. But as soon as you explain it to
• 23:56
  somebody, they they realize that like, oh, you shouldn't be
• 24:03
  taking loot out of the Great Vault unless that item is from a
• 24:10
  boss where, hey, there's not much else that you would want.
• 24:15
  Sorry, there's not much else that you would want from that
• 24:17
  boss or nothing at all that you would want from the boss.
• 24:20
  Like if there's only one item that you want from the boss,
• 24:22
  let's say Chimeris, and you want that, that that gaze and nothing
• 24:28
  else from that and that drops out of your fault.
• 24:30
  Beautiful. Take it, take it immediately.
• 24:32
  But if there's multiple things you can set up these really feel
• 24:39
  bad moments where you get it out of your vault, you go into raid,
• 24:47
  you bonus roll and you get the duplicate and you're like, and
• 24:51
  then like you could switch it around where you go, OK, I'm
• 24:54
  going to use my bonus roll and then only afterwards go into my
• 24:57
  vault to get stuff. And people do that in today's
• 24:59
  raids all the time. But this sets up a multi week
• 25:03
  bomb where you might pick something out of your out of
• 25:07
  your vault on Week 2 and then when you bonus roll two weeks
• 25:13
  later because you're after a different item on that, you
• 25:16
  might get the same item. And it's like, oh OK, now this
• 25:20
  is what people have been suggesting is just constantly
• 25:23
  grab the the bonus rolls all the time because they they
• 25:29
  themselves stop you from getting those duplicates.
• 25:32
  But as soon as you take the item directly from the vault, you're
• 25:35
  setting up basic a landmine for yourself.
• 25:37
  A feel bad moment if you use the bonus rule on the boss that
• 25:42
  drops that piece of loot and I don't I don't like that conflict
• 25:45
  that is so unintuitive. That is so like something that
• 25:49
  like the min Max's are going to have seen already and other
• 25:54
  people are going to be like, well, why isn't this on like if
• 25:57
  I take it out to my vault, why isn't this automatically removed
• 26:01
  from that? And that's because there are
• 26:03
  times where people will be doing a healer spec and A and a tank
• 26:08
  spec and they'll wear the same pants, but they'll enchant them
• 26:11
  differently so they want the duplicate item.
• 26:13
  There's there's weird reasons why Blizzard shouldn't automate
• 26:16
  that for you and why it will cause these bad situations.
• 26:20
  And I just don't like when systems get weird like that.
• 26:25
  I do think it's inherently on Blizzard to make it clear to
• 26:29
  play because obviously, like anybody, like anybody who's
• 26:33
  listening to this podcast is going well, they obviously know
• 26:35
  because we're talking about it right now.
• 26:36
  But they're they're the type of players who probably are
• 26:38
  immersed in Warcraft information all the time.
• 26:40
  So this this, this stuff just comes to them.
• 26:42
  You know, they see the hilarious raid guide, they're reading
• 26:44
  wellhead articles, they're listening to four as or out
• 26:46
  their favorite podcast. But they Blizzard does need to
• 26:49
  make sure it's super clear to players that aren't that
• 26:52
  immersed in the game that, you know, your bonus rolls remove an
• 26:56
  item. You can never bonus rolls
• 26:57
  anything twice. But if you take it from the
• 26:58
  vault and it's how they function now, nothing is changing about
• 27:01
  this. But if you take it from the
• 27:03
  vault, you can still bonus roll it.
• 27:05
  You're right. And saying like it is.
• 27:07
  If there is ever a boss that has more than one item you want, you
• 27:10
  should never take an item from the vault until it is the last
• 27:16
  item that you want from that boss because of the exact reason
• 27:19
  that you said so in. But also on the flip side of
• 27:22
  that is I think if your Guild isn't clearing to the boss that
• 27:27
  you need loot from early on, I think it's maybe OK, take O to
• 27:32
  your vault. Because what do we do?
• 27:34
  Like you want to have fun, right?
• 27:35
  Being optimal is fun for some of us, myself included.
• 27:38
  I can't imagine any situation where I'm taking anything other
• 27:40
  than the bonus role. But you know, that's not for
• 27:43
  everyone. Some people want to have fun.
• 27:44
  Some people like the great Vault.
• 27:46
  I think this is I think it's good because the number one
• 27:49
  thing people complain about is the great vault.
• 27:50
  They call it the box of misery, right?
• 27:52
  Well, now it's not a box of misery.
• 27:53
  Now you can deterministically get whatever item you want.
• 27:56
  It's it's building in bad luck protection to the Great Vault
• 28:01
  itself. OK but I I'm confused by your
• 28:03
  example. You're saying if you don't clear
• 28:07
  you should get the item, but if you're not killing the boss then
• 28:10
  it can't go into your vault right?
• 28:15
  Selection of items from Vault are based on the the.
• 28:18
  Furthest possible that you've. Progressed.
• 28:20
  Yeah. So you never get that.
• 28:21
  Option. Yeah, I was thinking, I just
• 28:24
  keep thinking in terms of the last boss because the last boss
• 28:26
  has a trinket. It's it's got the gaze of the
• 28:28
  onser for next season. It's the trinket everybody
• 28:30
  wants. But I'm thinking in terms of the
• 28:32
  last boss and like, if you can't clear to the last boss, you
• 28:35
  know, because bone, you wouldn't waste it.
• 28:36
  But I wouldn't send a bonus roll.
• 28:38
  I don't think on an earlier boss because I don't think that's as
• 28:43
  worth it. I would just take that trinket
• 28:44
  from so I was like instead of chasing the last boss, if I was
• 28:47
  only able to clear 6 when an item dropped from that, I would
• 28:51
  want to be saving the bonus for all the final boss to make sure
• 28:53
  I'm getting the the last boss has a one hand or a neck and a
• 28:57
  trinket that I want. He's got three of his of his
• 29:00
  five or six items are like super high value to me.
• 29:03
  So I I know what I will be doing.
• 29:05
  It's already set unless it changes it's set stone.
• 29:08
  The value difference in that where it's like OK, last boss,
• 29:12
  let's say it drops like 6 items that that could possibly drop
• 29:16
  for you and three of them are like really sought after 5050
• 29:21
  chance that I get that I get like something I really want.
• 29:24
  And even if you get like something that you don't want,
• 29:28
  that means that your next roll is that much better.
• 29:30
  Whereas if you take it from the vault, you're now creating an
• 29:33
  additional bad luck, where now it's you want two, and three of
• 29:38
  them are like and not exactly what I want, but one is
• 29:40
  absolutely useless for you. That's such a weird system to
• 29:43
  me. Yeah, it's just if you take the
• 29:45
  bonus roll. So that last possible example,
• 29:48
  if I take bonus roll every week, I know I'm going to be, I'm
• 29:52
  going to get every item that I want from him guaranteed by week
• 29:56
  6 at the latest. And it's like you're thinking,
• 30:00
  you have to think, you don't have to.
• 30:02
  I choose to think long term. Where do I want this power game?
• 30:07
  Do I care if I'm really strong in week two?
• 30:09
  Well, no, because it's Week 2. I want to make sure that I am
• 30:12
  set up for success down the road.
• 30:14
  So I'm going to do the thing that guarantees I never get a
• 30:16
  duplicate, which is the bonus rule.
• 30:19
  That is a very interesting. I, I don't know if there's
• 30:21
  actual like if I'm correct in this thinking, but I would
• 30:26
  honestly be thinking almost the opposite as somebody at the
• 30:29
  level that I'm at where like early on, we need as much gear
• 30:32
  as we can to keep pushing, right?
• 30:33
  We don't want to be hitting walls.
• 30:35
  We don't want to be. So like the, the idea of people,
• 30:37
  you know, hold like skipping over on loot they could benefit
• 30:41
  from so they can hold off on roles so they can be more
• 30:43
  powerful later. Feels to me like a, I mean,
• 30:47
  like, I'm not going to like police my group's great vault,
• 30:49
  but like I, I would always pick whatever is going to be getting
• 30:51
  me the highest item level at that moment so that my group can
• 30:54
  keep pushing higher and I can keep hanging.
• 30:56
  And part of that's because I'm a slow gear, right?
• 30:59
  So I need to be hanging with the group as much as I can, which
• 31:02
  means maintaining my item level as high as I can at any given
• 31:05
  moment. So yeah, like I, I would
• 31:07
  absolutely take something from the great vault if it's an item
• 31:09
  level upgrade, because I'm not going to hold on to bonus rolls
• 31:13
  for the boss. It's going to take us a few
• 31:14
  weeks to clear and and that entire time I've been having
• 31:18
  just like item levels basically in my pocket.
• 31:21
  It's, I think you have to look at it from a perspective of when
• 31:26
  do I need this power, right? My Guild is not, my Guild will
• 31:29
  not be pulling the penultimate boss probably until week seven,
• 31:33
  week six, week 7. So I want the power then and
• 31:36
  we're on the 2nd to last boss or last, but that's when I want the
• 31:39
  power. If you guys are clearing the
• 31:41
  raid by week 3, it's silly to try and hold off for power
• 31:45
  you're never going to need. But if you're not clearing the
• 31:46
  raid till week 10 or week 12, now you're, you're trading
• 31:51
  immediate power early on where it doesn't really matter for a
• 31:55
  loss of power down the road. So you're, it's like a marathon,
• 31:59
  right? You're starting off sprinting
• 32:00
  the Boston Marathon and everybody else is starting at
• 32:03
  whatever pace people run marathons at.
• 32:04
  I clearly have no marathoning experience.
• 32:09
  No, that's and like I said, I might be wrong, right.
• 32:11
  Like the, the way that I'm thinking of it, it's like I want
• 32:13
  to keep my Guild moving as quickly as possible and I want
• 32:15
  to keep myself moving like that. That might the what you're
• 32:17
  saying makes sense, right? I I probably wouldn't.
• 32:20
  Be clear. I don't think there's a right or
• 32:22
  wrong. I think there's you do what is
• 32:25
  fun for you. I think that's what matters
• 32:28
  because I we, I want to really make sure we avoid the, you
• 32:31
  know, the context of oh, you're doing the vault wrong because
• 32:34
  you didn't do X right. It's it is a video game.
• 32:40
  None of us it paid to play. It's a big upgrade that.
• 32:44
  Was great when I when I outlined it, I explained that you were
• 32:49
  getting instant gratification and you were setting up a
• 32:53
  potential feel bad moment later. At no point was I talking about
• 32:57
  power games and stuff. I'm just talking about the
• 32:59
  gameplay loop of oh I got it now and then.
• 33:02
  Crap, I got it again. Right.
• 33:04
  And that happens with bonus rolls if you grab stuff from the
• 33:08
  vault. And I mean, interestingly, I
• 33:11
  think that might be another place where our poor little like
• 33:14
  we, we are unfortunately denying our little lizard brains the joy
• 33:17
  that little lizard brains and joy, right.
• 33:19
  Like, you know, yeah, all like it.
• 33:21
  I I I think what Manny's saying. And Manny obviously tell me if
• 33:24
  I'm putting words in your mouth. Completely correct is that we
• 33:26
  are this feels like it might end up being a like Nope, eat your
• 33:30
  veggies sort of thing right where your brain feels really
• 33:33
  good when you open up your vault and you're like, oh, big number,
• 33:35
  but people are going to be, you know, min maxing and like
• 33:39
  telling you no, you got to take the bonus roll.
• 33:40
  You got to skip that over and take the bonus roll for the
• 33:42
  better loot, which maybe is is a better number, right, But maybe
• 33:46
  it doesn't trigger that little dopamine in your brain.
• 33:49
  So I do actually think there's a if I had done more than a
• 33:53
  college level of psychology. I think if somebody who has a
• 33:56
  higher degree in psychology thinks that it would be cool to
• 33:59
  talk about the like the the potential like just little brain
• 34:03
  signal errors that this is making that will make this feel
• 34:07
  potentially less fun. I think that's a cool
• 34:09
  conversation, but I think objectively it's better for the
• 34:11
  game. I think this is healthier.
• 34:13
  I think this is like giving us better loot.
• 34:15
  I just. I, I want to put a scenario in
• 34:19
  front of you guys. For three weeks you've been
• 34:24
  eating your veggies. You've been getting that bonus
• 34:26
  roll, you've been rolling against that boss, right?
• 34:29
  And you knock off 3 of the items.
• 34:31
  Now it's nothing but upside, right against that boss that
• 34:36
  you've been targeting because every boss has a different, a
• 34:39
  different table. And you look in your vault and
• 34:46
  from a boss that you weren't targeting best in slot item
• 34:50
  drops, OK. And so now you're like, oh crap,
• 34:55
  best in slot item, eat my veggies.
• 34:58
  And the answer is I can't tell you what you should do.
• 35:02
  If the best in slot item is from a boss where you have no other
• 35:06
  items, I would think that the best thing for you to do is
• 35:10
  delay your bonus roll to knock off that item and not have to
• 35:14
  use bonus rolls against that boss, right?
• 35:17
  If it has multiple items, then there's math involved and I hate
• 35:23
  that picking loot out of your vault involves that level of
• 35:26
  math. That's what I'm going to get.
• 35:29
  I understand that this might be on on a whole in general a
• 35:34
  better thing. I just think it's going to
• 35:36
  create a lot of situations where you're like, somebody's going to
• 35:40
  look at it and be like, I'm going to skip that best because
• 35:42
  like, man, I'm just I am a week away from getting this other
• 35:47
  best in slot that is like, I don't know, a more important
• 35:50
  slot or whatever. And I've been putting in this
• 35:53
  three weeks to do it. So I'm going to do it.
• 35:56
  And really, somehow you should have mapped out and figured out
• 35:59
  that it was this like that. That sucks.
• 36:02
  Like there's a lot of people who don't like that.
• 36:04
  Yeah. And so I, I know you were saying
• 36:06
  this very quickly. So I'm not trying to say that
• 36:07
  like you said, all of the arguments.
• 36:09
  I will say I don't find any of the arguments for not including
• 36:13
  the Great Vault in the bonus role, bad luck protection
• 36:18
  particularly or any of the ones that I know of.
• 36:20
  I don't find those particularly compelling.
• 36:23
  I don't see a really strong reason why we shouldn't include
• 36:25
  those all together where if you pull some, well, I guess the
• 36:28
  coding of that like, but like, yeah, I guess, and I'm saying
• 36:32
  I'm, I'm not thinking too deeply about this, but I, I don't think
• 36:36
  it would. I think it would be OK if the
• 36:38
  bonus roll like did also read through what you had, right?
• 36:42
  Or like what you'd already gotten.
• 36:44
  I I I don't see a harm to the bad luck protection blocking off
• 36:48
  the risk of rolling on something that you already or have
• 36:50
  equipped. I mean I know you code that I
• 36:53
  don't know. As long as it's not unique
• 36:54
  equip, I'm like, sorry, if it's unique equip, I don't think
• 36:58
  there's any issue with it. As soon as it's like, sorry, I
• 37:00
  apologize. There's less issues.
• 37:02
  I already talked about. You could have a pair of pants.
• 37:04
  You can only one wear one pair of pants.
• 37:06
  So why not include it on the on the bad luck protection?
• 37:10
  Except when somebody is doing multiple specs, they go from
• 37:15
  devourer Demon Hunter to havoc and one they want to put spell
• 37:18
  threat in to enchant their increase their intellect and one
• 37:23
  they want to improve their strength on.
• 37:24
  And now they wanted 2 pairs of pants and Blizzard has now
• 37:27
  locked them out of it. So like there are bad situations
• 37:30
  for all of it, which is why I'm like congratulations Blizzard
• 37:33
  can't please this. But it's just the closer you get
• 37:37
  to quote UN quote tailoring the loot for a particular person,
• 37:41
  the more you are fighting against somebody else.
• 37:43
  Somebody might PvP and how they gem enchant and whatever for PvP
• 37:49
  is different than what they do for Mythic plus.
• 37:52
  So they need a second set of even unique items that they that
• 37:57
  they put out that way the the way that the game is for
• 38:01
  different specs, different rolls, even like mythic plus to
• 38:07
  rating means that you like the bad luck protection can
• 38:10
  sometimes come back and bite somebody in the butt.
• 38:12
  So like being able to opt out of it by grabbing something out of
• 38:17
  the vault can be good, but it it introduces the booby traps that
• 38:22
  I'm talking about. That's true.
• 38:24
  I mean, just off the top of my head, I guess we could say what
• 38:27
  if bonus rolls were bad luck protection, but nothing else is.
• 38:30
  So, you know, if I have these pants and I want a second pair
• 38:33
  of pants, I might as well not bonus roll on it because I know
• 38:36
  that I'm not gonna get second pair of pants.
• 38:38
  It's bad luck protection. But you could hypothetically
• 38:40
  still get I mean like obviously could still drop off the boss
• 38:42
  and you could also get it off your great vault.
• 38:43
  So, like, it's not that you're locked from ever getting it.
• 38:46
  It means you can't chase 2 pairs of pants with which you kind of
• 38:49
  couldn't either because you're already like, I mean, I to be
• 38:53
  fair, I think all of these are relatively rare such scenarios.
• 38:57
  And we do already. Yeah.
• 38:59
  I like the number of times that I've opened up my great balls
• 39:01
  and like, all three items are literally items I have on my
• 39:04
  body. And I'm like, all right, fun,
• 39:06
  right? It's like you're already going
• 39:08
  to run into bad luck at times. Like it happens, we move on.
• 39:12
  So I, I, I don't know that I'm overly concerned.
• 39:14
  I like I, I, I think I agree with you, Manny, that it, it, it
• 39:18
  feels like it this, the fact that we've spent an unreasonable
• 39:21
  amount of time just talking through these scenarios means
• 39:24
  that like, I think it can be a little bit convoluted,
• 39:26
  obviously. I I don't think that the grate
• 39:30
  fault can go up higher than three slots, yeah.
• 39:33
  I don't, I don't want to talk to you about that.
• 39:36
  I. Don't want to have that
• 39:38
  conversation. We're going to table that one so
• 39:40
  next. She does.
• 39:42
  She does delve, she does pray, she raids, she clearly gets like
• 39:48
  four or five slots and. All three of my maximum options.
• 39:52
  Well, okay, because if I'm gonna have a really, if you fill out
• 39:55
  your great ball, you're probably not gonna have a terrible time,
• 39:57
  right. So the times that I have a
• 39:59
  really bad time are the times that I have three slots and I
• 40:01
  open, I'm like, oh Jesus, Oh Jesus, Oh Jesus.
• 40:04
  Right. Like, you know, it's not I'm not
• 40:07
  having. Having a bad time on the days
• 40:09
  that I did a ton of mythic plus and also cleared the rain and
• 40:11
  also did all my valves. Well no, it can still happen
• 40:14
  Lex. Like you could be an AOTC
• 40:18
  Raider, do mythic pluses at 10 or higher, and therefore the
• 40:23
  stuff that's coming from your mythic plus role row is better
• 40:29
  than your rating row. And that has been addressed in
• 40:34
  this. Now rating is going to get
• 40:36
  pushed up to that mythic level and be valid for longer.
• 40:39
  That's what John was saying. So there there will be, there
• 40:42
  will be that. Worse days.
• 40:44
  I'm gonna have more days when I'm like, all of this is the
• 40:46
  same shit I bonus rolled on. Never mind.
• 40:49
  This is terrible. This loot's horrible.
• 40:51
  It's bad for everyone. Get rid of it. 12.1 I'm
• 40:54
  quitting. All right.
• 40:56
  Well, I'm glad that you are pumped and I'm glad to to see
• 41:00
  that Sean, I do want to give you at least like the one last word
• 41:03
  on this. Positive let's go big big win.
• 41:05
  We got so much to talk about and all we've talked about is the
• 41:09
  again positive thing. I'm excited to see it in in
• 41:11
  play. You know it might maybe they
• 41:13
  iterate on it, but it's I think it's good.
• 41:15
  It's important to incentivize heroic raid.
• 41:18
  It's the largest amount of I think our rating player bases in
• 41:22
  that heroic raid section. I don't know.
• 41:24
  I'm making that up. That's that's my thing.
• 41:26
  That's the one this. That's the one this.
• 41:28
  One this time, except that people will have to like,
• 41:30
  actually have access to the numbers to like, refute you.
• 41:33
  So hey Hula, go ahead and leave us a comment.
• 41:38
  Yeah, anybody can go to Raider IO and see the numbers of kills
• 41:41
  of of bosses. There you go.
• 41:43
  All right. Well, talking about Mythic Plus,
• 41:45
  we have a brand new pool of dungeons that are coming in to
• 41:52
  this season. Now that is not just those
• 41:56
  Mythic dungeons that were introduced in Midnight that we
• 42:00
  didn't get to play in Season 1. That is returning dungeons and a
• 42:06
  brand new dungeon. So, Sean, give us this list
• 42:08
  here. Oh, it's a crazy list, though.
• 42:12
  Coming back from or coming to us from Midnight.
• 42:15
  We have The Murderer's row in Silver Moon.
• 42:19
  We have the Blinding Veil in Herndark.
• 42:24
  We have the Den of Nalarac. Personal fan favorite coming to
• 42:29
  us from Villa. Man, that's a joke.
• 42:31
  I hate that dungeon. Oh thank God.
• 42:32
  Or do I? And then #3 is hold on, I have
• 42:38
  this list in front of me. While you're looking this up, I
• 42:40
  just want to say I think Sean's actual purposeful error is
• 42:43
  Murderers Row. There was so much wrong with
• 42:47
  that. God help us all continue.
• 42:49
  Lex, you're not supposed to call it.
• 42:50
  You're supposed to leave it for the comments.
• 42:52
  Yeah, but I just told you that I get rage baited by this as much
• 42:57
  as anyone. All right, well, I gotta do it
• 42:59
  again. Murder Row.
• 43:01
  Yeah. And then the Void Scar arena is
• 43:03
  the last one that's returning from the, the the the zero week.
• 43:08
  And then we have a new dungeon coming called the Altar of Fangs
• 43:13
  which is joining us from the new island, a three boss dungeon.
• 43:17
  We we love a three boss dungeon. And lastly we have King's Rest
• 43:22
  returning from BFA, Ruby Life Fools returning from
• 43:24
  Dragonflight and Temple of Sethralis or Sethralis or
• 43:30
  Sethralis. Nobody knows how they say it
• 43:33
  coming to us as well. And the community erupted in
• 43:37
  absolute chaos at this list and predicted the season was over
• 43:43
  immediately. But there's more.
• 43:48
  Lizard released an extensive blog post mere minutes before
• 43:53
  recording this episode, breaking down how they choose dungeons,
• 43:57
  how they update dungeons, the overall challenge and feel of
• 44:01
  the season. For those of you who liked this
• 44:03
  season, you will be happy to know they did too.
• 44:06
  And the goal for season 2 is for dungeons to feel at about the
• 44:10
  same level of difficulty as season 1, but something that I
• 44:13
  find especially interesting. And this I'm not going to talk
• 44:18
  about the updated visuals on frontals, which is great.
• 44:20
  I love it. You know, we're excited to see
• 44:22
  cones and lines. That's going to be awesome.
• 44:24
  I want to talk about a philosophy change they're making
• 44:26
  because Blizzard has said, and this this came as a shock to me
• 44:30
  that too much of the responsibility of the success,
• 44:33
  success of a mythic plus dungeon sell on the tank and the healer
• 44:38
  new and they want to shift some of that responsibility to damage
• 44:43
  dealers. And they talked about a couple
• 44:45
  of different ways that they're going to do that increase mob
• 44:48
  health, increase the health on priority targets so that people
• 44:51
  have to make sure they're targeting the right thing and
• 44:54
  not blasting the minor mob that the tank is running away from to
• 44:57
  gather the rest of the pole and then pulling it onto themselves.
• 45:01
  And another thing, they said that instead of death as a
• 45:05
  penalty for failing to do a mechanic properly, they're going
• 45:09
  to implement damage down instead.
• 45:12
  So when Manny forgets that Shaman has the best kick in the
• 45:15
  game and only does 4 in the dungeon, he instead will do less
• 45:19
  damage, somehow will do even less damage from the penalty.
• 45:27
  I I am very excited. This isn't if you're somebody
• 45:30
  who enjoys Mythic. Plus, if you have any complaints
• 45:32
  or any concerns with the dungeon pool, Kings Rest, Temple of
• 45:35
  Southwest, I get it. Ruby Lifebools, I get it.
• 45:37
  You need to go read this blog post.
• 45:39
  They go into really good detail breaking down how they're
• 45:42
  changing those dungeons specifically and their
• 45:44
  philosophy as a whole. Manny, everything about 12.1 has
• 45:47
  got me smiling from ear to ear. Is that about sum it up?
• 45:52
  I am really happy that you're going to be smiling before you
• 45:56
  quit the game in rage. That is a roller coaster of
• 46:02
  emotions and I'm glad that we got to be here for the highs and
• 46:05
  the lows. Yeah, they addressed all my
• 46:08
  concerns. That was everything that I
• 46:10
  pointed to was they can't do this again.
• 46:13
  And so far, what we're seeing now, it's just words at this
• 46:16
  point. We'll see it in practice.
• 46:17
  But everything they're saying is, hey, Sean specifically, we
• 46:22
  hear you. We're going to fix this.
• 46:25
  I knew Fast Stuff was on your side when they didn't make you
• 46:28
  do an episode in the language that I'm forgetting, Klingon.
• 46:32
  Thank you Fazdev. I thought Fazdev and I had a
• 46:36
  relationship, I thought we were friends, but no, it was about
• 46:39
  Sean the whole time. I see how it is Fazdev.
• 46:41
  We're still in a fight. I will say on the actual topic,
• 46:47
  I I swear I sometimes say things that are not just talking shit.
• 46:50
  I am I, I was really excited about the like putting a little
• 46:55
  bit more on the damage dealers. This is something that's been
• 46:57
  very interesting to me playing. I, I got to run some dungeons
• 47:00
  with a group that Sean put together, which are all people
• 47:02
  who like regularly push six teams and, and do really
• 47:05
  incredible stuff. And I think I hadn't fully
• 47:07
  understood how much can be saved by like, and I want to be really
• 47:11
  clear. The DPS I run with are amazing.
• 47:12
  They're really talented. They're they're super, super
• 47:14
  good. But we're not like, you know,
• 47:16
  high, extremely high level key pushers who's done more of these
• 47:20
  and can do these than any human ever should and can do these in
• 47:23
  their sleep. And, and so watching DPS clean
• 47:27
  up mistakes, I was like, oh, it really is kind of everyone,
• 47:29
  right? Like a really talented healer
• 47:31
  can, can carry you through really messy, bad situations.
• 47:35
  A really talented tank knows how to, you know, adjust things and
• 47:38
  take more on themselves when need be and like fix problems
• 47:41
  And really talented DPS can be like, Oh, this healer doesn't
• 47:44
  know what she's doing here. You know what we're going to do,
• 47:46
  we're going to wipe it out. And I, I, I think it's so first
• 47:50
  of all, I've said this, I think on the show a couple times, I
• 47:52
  think it's really good to play different roles in dungeons,
• 47:55
  especially if you're scared. I think that helps a lot.
• 47:57
  And I think it also helps to play with people of different
• 47:59
  levels and really kind of get a sense of like what
• 48:03
  extraordinarily talented players can do.
• 48:06
  And I, I I think it's also really good that this things are
• 48:09
  getting pushed a little bit back on DPS, especially things like,
• 48:12
  you know, like missing kicks and failing mechanics do tend to be
• 48:15
  then blamed on healers as like, oh, I just started dying and
• 48:19
  what did I die for? And say, well, instance, I was
• 48:21
  freaking silenced for 45 seconds because you decided that fears
• 48:24
  were optional. And I think making that more of
• 48:27
  like the DPS hurts the DPSI think could be really really
• 48:29
  positive and make this a lot more fun for healers to to play
• 48:33
  in general. Yeah, Manny, can we take a
• 48:35
  second to celebrate? Lex, we didn't talk about it
• 48:38
  last week because you weren't here.
• 48:39
  We didn't want to. We didn't want to steal your
• 48:40
  Thunder and eat your cake. You you got an achievement last
• 48:45
  weekend that that you've never gotten before I.
• 48:47
  Did I got my first ever keystone master?
• 48:48
  It was. That was actually really
• 48:51
  exciting. I've never had a Keystone master
• 48:53
  mount before. Did you get Keystone Hero as
• 48:56
  well? Which one's hero?
• 48:58
  I think so. 2500. Yes, there's one.
• 49:02
  The one that I have left is doing all twelves and I'm
• 49:04
  thinking to myself if I want to try to push that with my
• 49:06
  friends. But yeah, yeah, that's really
• 49:09
  exciting. And I, I, I am feeling a lot.
• 49:12
  It's crazy. I feel like I've had quite a
• 49:13
  roller coaster of healing stuff, whereas like healing 10s with my
• 49:17
  friends. They're like, this is amazing.
• 49:18
  And then I did 10s with strangers and I got yelled at
• 49:20
  them like, oh, never mind, I'm terrible.
• 49:22
  And then I did 10s with Sean friends and I was like, Oh my
• 49:24
  God, I just got to carry me through everything.
• 49:27
  I could do twelves in my sleep. And and so now I'm feeling a lot
• 49:31
  more. I I, I really the take away that
• 49:34
  I'm mostly repeating for myself, but I do also think if you are,
• 49:38
  if you have ever kind of like connected with me on this, like,
• 49:41
  oh, like pugging is so scary and I feel like I screwed things up
• 49:44
  and mythic plus is really overwhelming and I just feel
• 49:46
  bad. Play different roles and play
• 49:48
  with different people because like, I, I, I really, I did not
• 49:51
  fully understand. And the thing that was making me
• 49:53
  feel really stressed was I did not understand that any
• 49:56
  basically anyone can make or break.
• 49:58
  And so no failures on one person and and also no successes on one
• 50:02
  person, right? I mean, that's OK.
• 50:03
  That's not necessarily true. I've seen some players do some
• 50:05
  crazy shit. Sorry, I if, if, if that word is
• 50:08
  one that has to be more locked out.
• 50:09
  I've been a real pain this entire this entire episode.
• 50:13
  Well, we could say that word. That word's OK.
• 50:14
  Oh. Hell yeah.
• 50:16
  But I, I think that did I, when I was doing Mythic pluses and we
• 50:21
  were failing and like issues were going off the entire time.
• 50:24
  I was kind of looking for like, did I fail that?
• 50:26
  Like, is this my failure? Are we wiping because of me?
• 50:29
  And obviously it's important to be checking yourself and making
• 50:32
  sure you know mechanics. You know, it's not acceptable to
• 50:34
  go into a tan if you don't know the mechanics.
• 50:36
  That that was a joke. But really a lot of problems can
• 50:42
  be fixed by teamwork or by people who really know their
• 50:45
  stuff on any role. And so there's not really a lot.
• 50:49
  I mean, there are you can make pretty serious mistakes, but it
• 50:52
  it's it's crazy how much a team can clean up.
• 50:54
  And so if you wiped, it probably is a mixture of issues, right?
• 51:00
  It's not just one person. I think that was was that the
• 51:04
  first ever E session with all three members of FAZ in it?
• 51:11
  Unless Manny was on some of my early tanking expeditions, but I
• 51:15
  don't think. I know we grouped up one day
• 51:17
  when you were tanking. I can't remember if Manny was
• 51:19
  there. Yeah, Manny, I remember your
• 51:21
  tanking. And I think Manny and I, we, we
• 51:23
  definitely Manny and I also played together, but I don't
• 51:25
  know if it was ever me, Manny and Shawn.
• 51:28
  Well, I mean, I'm really glad that that you pushed through.
• 51:32
  And I don't honestly think that like if something in the game is
• 51:36
  not fun, just in general, if something is not fun, it half
• 51:42
  the fun, most of the fun is who you're playing with.
• 51:46
  Like the company you keep can make even some of the most
• 51:49
  mundane things just absolute joy.
• 51:52
  And I really do think that sometimes change your
• 51:57
  environment, change your company, and you'll start loving
• 52:01
  the game again and all sorts of things all over again.
• 52:06
  So I'm glad that you got your KSM.
• 52:08
  Big congratulations. I'm hoping that if you do want
• 52:12
  to do KSL or something like that, that can hit up your
• 52:16
  friends once more. Because I think part of it is
• 52:20
  like, yeah, just, it's never been asked before.
• 52:25
  We've just sort of never been like, OK, let's let's, let's get
• 52:29
  together and do that sort of stuff.
• 52:30
  So maybe, maybe we got to hang out more, but that'll have to
• 52:35
  come after I learned how to use my interrupt or something.
• 52:40
  I don't for the for everybody who's listening.
• 52:43
  I didn't. I don't actually have.
• 52:44
  I have no idea how many interrupts, man, I didn't.
• 52:46
  That was a joke. I did not actually check
• 52:48
  interrupts got. It OK, I do think that you guys
• 52:54
  should look at the article. They go through multiple
• 52:59
  dungeons and particular issues that they found with the
• 53:02
  dungeons and how they're going to address it.
• 53:06
  So do check that out, but more importantly to Fasdev, to any
• 53:12
  dev that is listening, thank you for being proactive with the
• 53:17
  communication. This is the thing that we want
• 53:21
  from you guys to be able to understand not only what is
• 53:26
  happening, but why it's happening to that gives us the
• 53:31
  context, the framework to give better feedback that changes the
• 53:35
  narrative to like, I don't even know what they're thinking,
• 53:38
  which is utterly, utterly unproductive, but is always the
• 53:41
  narrative that happens with these two.
• 53:44
  OK, this is what they're doing. But if you're going to do that,
• 53:46
  Blizzard, you should look at this.
• 53:48
  That is so much better without even saying like what you feel
• 53:52
  they should do, just pointing and saying like hey, based on
• 53:55
  what you're saying, I think that this is also an issue that you
• 53:58
  haven't addressed here is way better feedback and all it took
• 54:02
  was a little bit of proactive communication on Blizzard's
• 54:05
  part. So bravo for that.
• 54:08
  It's like how couples counselors are telling you what you should
• 54:11
  say with your partner is like what I'm hearing from you is X,
• 54:16
  because then they can explain. If you're like, no, that's not
• 54:18
  what I'm saying. What I'm saying.
• 54:19
  It's why that's what Blizzard's doing.
• 54:21
  Blizzard's gone to couples counseling with us, except you
• 54:24
  and me fast enough. We're still in the fight.
• 54:27
  OK. Well, at least like you're
• 54:28
  talking about it and saying why you're you're having this beef
• 54:32
  with Fasdev and then that's up to Fasdev to engage there.
• 54:35
  But that's proactive communication.
• 54:37
  So they want more of that, maybe not while we're recording.
• 54:41
  So let's talk about the frontals because I think that Sean, you
• 54:47
  kind of briefly we talked about this and this isn't just about
• 54:51
  the frontals. This is about the pace at which
• 54:54
  they're addressing issues. We had a lot of things that were
• 54:58
  left over from 12 point O that were like, hey, like if you're
• 55:02
  not going to address this, please let us know what the deal
• 55:06
  is. And the flurry of stuff that's
• 55:09
  come out in 12.1 is, as Sean's saying, all the stuff that he's
• 55:14
  was asking for, all the things that he was doing.
• 55:18
  Sean, if six weeks ago they had said, hey, we hear you.
• 55:22
  We're not ready to to do something yet.
• 55:25
  But in 12.1, these are things we're looking at addressing.
• 55:30
  Would that have been a better communication for you?
• 55:32
  Would you have had more hope before this watershed of
• 55:37
  information? I like that it came out now I
• 55:41
  think because if and if I get this information in the middle
• 55:46
  of a season where the problems are still actively existing,
• 55:49
  then I'm like, why isn't it fixed for this season?
• 55:53
  You know what I mean? So the season's essentially over
• 55:56
  12 point 0.7 is out. We have seven weeks left in the
• 55:59
  tier. Essentially, though we're
• 56:02
  looking forward. You know, I, I I feel like the
• 56:05
  timing of this is perfect and well, I don't like that I had to
• 56:10
  be that I had to feel the way that I felt.
• 56:13
  I didn't have to. I guess I don't like that I felt
• 56:14
  the way that I felt at the beginning of this the tier.
• 56:17
  But there's a really good quote that you can't have the sweet
• 56:21
  without the sour. And if I didn't feel the way
• 56:24
  that I did about 12 point O would I now be, which again,
• 56:28
  I've said this a bunch of times makes no sense because I the
• 56:32
  dungeons are good, the rate is good, I'm having fun.
• 56:35
  I don't know why I feel bad about it.
• 56:37
  I cannot explain it. It's like, have you ever had a
• 56:40
  partner and they love pizza and you suggest pizza for supper and
• 56:44
  they tell you no, but you know, they love pizza.
• 56:47
  That's where I'm at. It's pizza, but I don't want it.
• 56:52
  Not this pizza anyway. I think the article is good.
• 56:56
  I think, I think it's good that it came now because it's, it's a
• 56:58
  look forward to 12.1 and it, it sort of validates the way I was
• 57:02
  feeling, you know, it, it makes me and whether it's a placebo
• 57:05
  effect or not, whether they're like, oh, let's just tell Sean
• 57:08
  that what he was feeling is right.
• 57:09
  We'll just put some words out. He'll be good, be quiet.
• 57:12
  But it feels I, I, I like where it's at now.
• 57:14
  I think getting it at this point is really good because I feel so
• 57:18
  like I am ready to go. I was like healing back my
• 57:22
  engagement for 12.1 and then the outcast came out and then these
• 57:27
  posts hit and the then the one just before we recorded and
• 57:30
  everything has just been like like a shot of adrenaline right
• 57:33
  to my heart. You can see me, you know, that's
• 57:36
  probably not very healthy, but it's how it feels.
• 57:39
  Would you have been like if these exact same posts came out
• 57:43
  earlier? Do you feel that you wouldn't
• 57:45
  have been receptive to them? Yeah, 100% I would have said
• 57:49
  it's easy to say this but show us the proof if you know this
• 57:52
  now at 12 point O .5, why isn't it being implemented for 12
• 57:56
  point O .5? Why aren't you making these
• 57:58
  changes heading into 12 point O .5 like you know, if it comes
• 58:02
  out before I'm instantly blaming why isn't it in this patch 100%?
• 58:09
  I would not believe I would you know I mean you've seen me do
• 58:11
  it. They've come out and said hey,
• 58:12
  we didn't want a wall boss in the middle of the grid.
• 58:14
  We're not going to do that again.
• 58:15
  Sorry. And then I point to how they've
• 58:17
  said that every tier for like 6 tiers running up until last year
• 58:21
  and you know, but and this would have been the same thing.
• 58:24
  I would, I would have picked out every time they said, we hear
• 58:27
  you, we're going to do better. And then they didn't do better.
• 58:30
  And I don't know why I'm choosing to believe at this
• 58:32
  time. Maybe it's because this, this
• 58:34
  article is the best like the, the information they've put out.
• 58:39
  I feel like somebody went like somebody went to Blizzard HQ and
• 58:42
  was like, listen, we have to break it down.
• 58:46
  We have to tell them what we're doing, why we're doing, what
• 58:50
  we're thinking, what we think that they're trying to tell us
• 58:54
  because these are they're insightful, they're deliberate,
• 58:58
  and they are the best written blue posts giving us a look
• 59:04
  ahead that I've ever read. It's a master class on how to do
• 59:07
  this. I want this once every six
• 59:10
  weeks. It's so good, It's so good, it's
• 59:16
  so good. Lex, what's your take on all of
• 59:21
  this? Or is this just like not like
• 59:24
  you're like you get the general feel of it.
• 59:28
  You like the nitty them taking the time to do nitty gritty
• 59:30
  about this? Or is this something where
• 59:32
  you're like, you know what, this isn't really going to affect
• 59:34
  you. What's your take on just like
• 59:36
  the communication of the posts that have been coming out?
• 59:39
  Yeah, So I will be super honest when I read this at first, one
• 59:41
  of the first thoughts I had was Sean's going to say, I've heard
• 59:45
  this a million times. And I, I, I do think the thing
• 59:49
  that does kill that is that it was so detailed, right?
• 59:54
  They walked, they, they didn't just say, we understand, you
• 59:57
  know, that you're feeling frustration with XYZ.
• 1:00:01
  They, they went through, if you haven't read this blue post,
• 1:00:03
  they, they paint point by point say like we change this and
• 1:00:07
  we're changing this and we're looking at this and like, like
• 1:00:09
  just list it out for every single dungeon.
• 1:00:11
  What they knew were pain points and how they were intending to
• 1:00:13
  address them. And I think that at that point,
• 1:00:15
  I mean, if they, it's, it's written out what they plan to
• 1:00:19
  do. And so if they don't do it,
• 1:00:20
  that's a different conversation. But it's not that there's any
• 1:00:23
  misunderstandings, right? They knew what to do.
• 1:00:26
  I I mean, overall, I think I tend not to be deep enough in
• 1:00:33
  Mythic Plus to feel that I can speak on a high level about like
• 1:00:36
  what is fun and what isn't. I admittedly am a little bit
• 1:00:40
  anxious about this cone and line cast where it's like red in
• 1:00:45
  empty if it's targeting you and colored otherwise.
• 1:00:48
  I think when they've done that in raids, sometimes it's been a
• 1:00:51
  little ugly slash confusing With Bellerin, that was one of the
• 1:00:55
  biggest issues. And once we figured it out, we
• 1:00:58
  figured it out. But I remember us all being very
• 1:01:00
  confused with the, this thing you have to soak for the
• 1:01:05
  opposite colour, the, the line coming out the quill.
• 1:01:08
  Yeah, I remember that being really, really tough for us at
• 1:01:10
  1st and like figuring out when it is ours.
• 1:01:14
  And I, I think the red is often harder to read than brighter
• 1:01:17
  colours. I mean, but again, once we've I,
• 1:01:20
  I, I, I think that now they're explaining this means this, this
• 1:01:23
  means that it, it could feel better.
• 1:01:25
  And if it's consistent, I, I, I am a little bit concerned.
• 1:01:29
  These lines to me look potentially losable.
• 1:01:33
  I I think that the, the cast that's not targeting you
• 1:01:37
  actually feel is a lot more visually obvious.
• 1:01:40
  But I mean, once you get used to something, you get used to it,
• 1:01:43
  right? So I'm sure that once I'm really
• 1:01:44
  used to like looking for bright red on the ground, maybe I'm
• 1:01:47
  tripping out, maybe it's not that bad.
• 1:01:49
  I want you to go to Algathir Academy and pull the birds, the
• 1:01:53
  cross, and tell me which frontals you prefer, the ones
• 1:01:57
  that you are just now realizing exist on that fight that I just
• 1:02:00
  mentioned because they're so hard to see or see who wants the
• 1:02:04
  red? Line that's fair and and and to
• 1:02:07
  be yeah yeah I I, I the more I look at this I think I I think
• 1:02:11
  that I was traumatized by Ballarat.
• 1:02:14
  I think that that was like one of the big confusion points for
• 1:02:17
  our team early on was, wait, what are you talking about?
• 1:02:21
  The blue line? There's red lines on the ground.
• 1:02:23
  Like, wait, I'm not being targeted.
• 1:02:25
  Why do I have the red? I don't understand why it looks
• 1:02:27
  red to me. This doesn't make sense.
• 1:02:30
  So I think it probably is actually fine.
• 1:02:31
  I think that if this is actually consistent and like very
• 1:02:33
  clearly, this means this this means something else.
• 1:02:37
  I think it could be much more positive.
• 1:02:38
  So yeah, I, I, that's the one thing that I was a little bit
• 1:02:42
  unsure of, but I do think this is a much better written
• 1:02:46
  article. And I think that I'm, I'm
• 1:02:48
  excited in general with how I'm, I'm excited for you guys.
• 1:02:52
  I mean, it would be fun to do more.
• 1:02:53
  I'm feeling better about Keystone, but I don't, again, I
• 1:02:55
  don't really know the nitty gritty.
• 1:02:56
  So I wouldn't know a good mythic plus or a bad mythic plus, but
• 1:03:00
  you guys are excited and that makes me happy.
• 1:03:04
  So then talking something about this, talking about something
• 1:03:10
  that's a little closer to where you at least profess to play.
• 1:03:16
  There are new Delves, as you said.
• 1:03:18
  There's a new season of Prey now.
• 1:03:20
  Prey's fallen off for you as you switch to your priest.
• 1:03:24
  Sean, I believe you and I are both on the same page where
• 1:03:28
  Delves and Prey aren't really on our menu anymore.
• 1:03:32
  With a new season, is this something that you're going to
• 1:03:36
  re engage with Lex? So I love healer delves.
• 1:03:40
  I, I mean, you don't have as much control as you do.
• 1:03:42
  It's, it's not as fun as a, you know, Demon Hunter zooming
• 1:03:45
  through and controlling the whole situation.
• 1:03:47
  But I really do enjoy demon healer delves.
• 1:03:50
  I think they're actually really well paced and and the AII think
• 1:03:54
  it is surprisingly well coded for what's her name, Valira.
• 1:04:00
  I mean, obviously there's some issues with some of the end
• 1:04:02
  bosses can be tough, but you can outgear that pretty quick and
• 1:04:04
  and figure it out. So I'm excited for The Dells.
• 1:04:08
  I think that's be really, really fun.
• 1:04:09
  When I saw the new prey stuff, like literally my just like
• 1:04:13
  stomach dropped and that's what I realized how sad I was to be
• 1:04:16
  potentially losing prey on priests.
• 1:04:18
  So this is Sean makes mistakes to get you guys to comment on
• 1:04:21
  things. If people have thoughts on like
• 1:04:26
  builds or ways like I I've heard disc is better on prey.
• 1:04:29
  I tried disc on prey once. I didn't really know disc, so
• 1:04:32
  that's probably my problem. But it was like the most
• 1:04:36
  frustrating, impossible task of my life.
• 1:04:38
  If there are ways that people have found to make Prey fun on
• 1:04:41
  priests, I would love to know. Because I adored prey, right?
• 1:04:45
  I had. So I mean, I know I complained
• 1:04:47
  about some of the stuff. I complained about how often it
• 1:04:48
  killed me because I went into places with no animals and told
• 1:04:51
  me to kill me things, and then I couldn't.
• 1:04:54
  Interestingly enough, it's actually really easy on priests
• 1:04:55
  to heal yourself, but I I did think that was really fun.
• 1:04:59
  I loved the way that it integrated with delves where I
• 1:05:01
  could go do my prey and then I'd get my keys and then I could go
• 1:05:03
  into my delves and do my delves. I thought that was really,
• 1:05:05
  really well done. And so only being able to access
• 1:05:08
  50% of that feels very bad to me as somebody who historically has
• 1:05:11
  really enjoyed that content. So if people know how to make
• 1:05:14
  prey fun on a priest, hit us up or you can always join our
• 1:05:18
  discord at bit dot LY slash fast discord.
• 1:05:21
  But because. Is this a bit?
• 1:05:22
  Are you doing a bit? That I'm really.
• 1:05:24
  Saying pray and priests, surely we're making the connection out
• 1:05:29
  of my praying fun on like Bree. That's funny.
• 1:05:33
  Pray that's. Funny.
• 1:05:35
  That's funny. Yeah.
• 1:05:35
  Yeah, you're right. You're right.
• 1:05:37
  That's that's that's hilarious. What a good joke.
• 1:05:42
  Anyway, back to my problems. Sorry, sorry, sorry.
• 1:05:47
  Yeah, so I and I, this feels like a a bit of a long term call
• 1:05:51
  back because every time I talked about Demon Hunter, I would
• 1:05:53
  always say be aware I'm playing as a Havoc Demon Hunter.
• 1:05:55
  And so I have a lot of fun with solo content because I'm a
• 1:05:58
  really tanky class that also does pretty high damage and has
• 1:06:01
  a fair amount of self heels. So I'm particularly well suited
• 1:06:04
  to solo content. And then I stopped playing that
• 1:06:06
  class and now I'm not particularly well suited to solo
• 1:06:08
  content. I'm like, this is not as fun, so
• 1:06:13
  fix that Faz Dev and then we won't be in a fight or somebody
• 1:06:15
  just tell me how to play priest better.
• 1:06:17
  I'm sure that it's not actually the prey, it's just impossible
• 1:06:19
  on priests. But all that said, the delves
• 1:06:23
  look fun. I love delves.
• 1:06:24
  Delves are fun. They're silly, they're goofy,
• 1:06:26
  they're whatever. I heal Valera, she says her five
• 1:06:28
  waistlines. She doesn't tell me.
• 1:06:30
  Let's go in with a strategy so I don't hate her.
• 1:06:33
  I thought I'd hate Valera at this point, but I don't because
• 1:06:35
  she's not a little snarky jerk. Bran, I really think we should
• 1:06:39
  have been allowed to kill him. So I'm excited.
• 1:06:42
  I think that's going to be fun. I just want keys.
• 1:06:44
  So someone teach me how to do pray, please.
• 1:06:46
  Thank you. All right, how do you guys have
• 1:06:50
  any thoughts on the extension? They're changing the Delve
• 1:06:53
  Nemesis Boss Hall of Fame to be the first reset you have a week
• 1:06:57
  now instead of just being the 1st 4000.
• 1:06:59
  Are you also excited to hear content creators who still can't
• 1:07:02
  get it tell us that this time it's because they were on
• 1:07:03
  holiday and it's not fair? As opposed to I had to work that
• 1:07:07
  day, which was the common excuse last time.
• 1:07:11
  Personally, I think it's super fun when I I hear people who
• 1:07:16
  feel that they should be given the highest level of achievement
• 1:07:18
  in the video game. Yeah, I mean, I'm, I, I only
• 1:07:22
  care so far as we get to make a snarky little section on for
• 1:07:26
  Azeroth about it. I'm not big.
• 1:07:29
  I I know my skill. I'm not big.
• 1:07:31
  Hall of Fame of the Nemesis Delve.
• 1:07:33
  Best of luck to you all though, besties.
• 1:07:36
  So yeah, no, I don't, I don't care.
• 1:07:38
  That's completely I, I all the, I think that the top level stuff
• 1:07:42
  should be between the top level players.
• 1:07:44
  And I think that it should be as hard as they want it to be
• 1:07:46
  because it's just freaking cute little numbers that you get to
• 1:07:50
  point to and say, look, I'm super good at the game.
• 1:07:52
  And if you're good enough to get those cute little numbers, I
• 1:07:54
  think you get them. And if you're not, I think get
• 1:07:57
  good. I'm not good enough, so I'm not
• 1:08:00
  trying. I wonder about the Nemesis delve
• 1:08:07
  this year because people are going to be coming in with like
• 1:08:11
  fully decked out from mythic rating and stuff.
• 1:08:13
  We don't have the same gearing up rush that we did for the
• 1:08:20
  first one. So that first week reset is
• 1:08:24
  going to allow for a lot more people.
• 1:08:27
  It's clearly going to be way more people than were able to
• 1:08:31
  fit in the 1st first season. That was a strict number cut
• 1:08:35
  off. This is a weak thing, but I
• 1:08:37
  think it'll be again, there'll be the sad things instead of
• 1:08:43
  somebody being like, oh man, if I got that, that on that attempt
• 1:08:47
  to settle the following attempt, I would have been in in there.
• 1:08:53
  Now it's going to be, Oh no, the clock ticked past midnight and
• 1:08:57
  so I'm not in there. And so I didn't make it, Dang
• 1:08:59
  it. So there's still going to be,
• 1:09:02
  it's still, there's always going to be people on the wrong side
• 1:09:05
  of the cut off. It's more people, it'll give you
• 1:09:08
  more time, it's more flexible. You can better understand that a
• 1:09:15
  tear is coming out and manage your time accordingly.
• 1:09:22
  That's what happens when content creators don't go what they
• 1:09:24
  want. But.
• 1:09:25
  Here comes out, tears come out. Oh my God, do the tears come
• 1:09:28
  out. Sorry.
• 1:09:29
  Man, I continue. You, you can, you can continue
• 1:09:34
  with it because it is basically just people are going to cry,
• 1:09:36
  people are going to moan. I just think that for players
• 1:09:40
  that are interested in going for it, this this allows for the
• 1:09:44
  flexibility. Hopefully you are not entitled.
• 1:09:49
  Then you can just do it on your own time.
• 1:09:51
  The reason I'm not going to get a Hall of Fame actually is going
• 1:09:53
  to because the clock strikes midnight.
• 1:09:55
  FYI if anyone was curious why they don't see my name there.
• 1:09:58
  Yeah, I won't get it for not attempting.
• 1:10:00
  Do you think this devalues it? I have no horse in this race,
• 1:10:04
  couldn't possibly care less about the Talve Nemesis Hall of
• 1:10:08
  Fame. But do you think for those who
• 1:10:09
  do, I'm sure there are people who do care.
• 1:10:11
  Does this devalue it? Like if you were one of the 4000
• 1:10:14
  from this season, I don't know if either of you, I assume much
• 1:10:16
  you weren't. I don't know if you were or not.
• 1:10:18
  Manny, are you like, like do you now feel like, oh, well, now
• 1:10:23
  it's not as worth as much because it's all week?
• 1:10:24
  I wonder if there's people that feel that.
• 1:10:26
  Way, I mean, I do my general take and I'm a little bit tuned
• 1:10:29
  into thinking this since it's been what I've been saying about
• 1:10:31
  delves since before they even came out is because they're open
• 1:10:35
  world content. People feel entitled to them,
• 1:10:37
  are entitled to having them be done easily.
• 1:10:39
  And I think that is the reason why they switched.
• 1:10:44
  So like, I I think that delves needed to be relatively totally
• 1:10:48
  like to to that achievement was a really tight timeline and a
• 1:10:52
  really small group, partially because I mean, like delves are
• 1:10:55
  not mythic plus or like, you know, they're not mythic rating.
• 1:10:58
  They are a little easier for the average player.
• 1:11:02
  And so to make that achievement feel really powerful, it did
• 1:11:06
  have to be a really tight timeline.
• 1:11:08
  And so, yeah, I mean, I do kind of think that to the first reset
• 1:11:11
  does open it up. I don't think it's as impressive
• 1:11:16
  as a like by definition, it's not some present title, right?
• 1:11:19
  And I do think that it's just that people feel entitled to
• 1:11:22
  open world content. And so when they saw that there
• 1:11:23
  was a nameplate that they could not get because it was open
• 1:11:27
  world content, but it was open world content, but they weren't
• 1:11:30
  good enough to get it, they threw a little fit.
• 1:11:32
  And I think Blizzard responded because Blizzard tends to also
• 1:11:34
  think that open world content should be open to anyone.
• 1:11:37
  But all that said, I also like again, it doesn't really matter
• 1:11:41
  to me. And again, I do kind of feel
• 1:11:42
  like high level stuff to be between high level players.
• 1:11:44
  So if the high level Dells players are like, no, actually,
• 1:11:47
  I think that's fine. I think that it was more fair.
• 1:11:49
  I think, you know, 4000 was too or power for many was is was far
• 1:11:52
  too tight girl. I wasn't getting it either way.
• 1:11:55
  So we're good there. You guys figure it out among
• 1:11:58
  yourselves. I'm happy if you're happy.
• 1:12:00
  I like one thing that you said there, that it was something to
• 1:12:04
  be between high level players. I think that if it was a
• 1:12:08
  particular cut off of like this many players, you would see a
• 1:12:15
  lot more people attempting to do it on day one to make sure that
• 1:12:18
  they were in there, especially since it ended so quickly last
• 1:12:22
  time. I think that could have been a
• 1:12:24
  community event. I think that we could have seen
• 1:12:27
  somebody who was just like, Oh yeah, be there.
• 1:12:31
  I'm going to like rush in and we're going to do it as quickly
• 1:12:35
  as possible. And you would see somebody who
• 1:12:38
  like, eventually some community would have popped up being like,
• 1:12:41
  we're tracking and we're seeing it fill up and like, oh man, at
• 1:12:44
  this rate it's going to be there.
• 1:12:46
  It could have moved towards something akin to a mini event
• 1:12:52
  where it's a week cut off and it's just like how many people
• 1:12:55
  can fill in. It's going to be like the Hall
• 1:12:57
  of Fame where a Wowhead post or something will show up and be
• 1:12:59
  like, Hey, it's we've surpassed this and you've got you've got
• 1:13:04
  the next 24 hours to get in there or it's not going to or
• 1:13:08
  you're not going to count and that'll be the end of it.
• 1:13:10
  So yes, this is being changed to be more in line with open world
• 1:13:18
  content. No, not everything in open world
• 1:13:22
  content needs to be in that mold, and I think that we lost
• 1:13:28
  something for it. You want to do a little
• 1:13:31
  prediction and just predict how many people we think will have
• 1:13:34
  the title after the week? I really want to do this, so I
• 1:13:36
  think you guys should say yes I want.
• 1:13:38
  To do it, yeah, I want to do it. I don't know what.
• 1:13:39
  This will be the final question, our prediction, Sean Stragamus
• 1:13:43
  versus the Lexicon. Let's see how this goes, so go
• 1:13:47
  ahead. I'm going to say north of
• 1:13:51
  750,000 we'll have the the net delve them.
• 1:13:56
  Is this achievement after? Over all regions?
• 1:13:58
  Or are you just counting particular regions like NA and
• 1:14:01
  EU? All regions, All regions.
• 1:14:03
  OK 75,000. No 750,000. 750,000 OK, all
• 1:14:11
  right. And the lexicon like this is
• 1:14:14
  going to be stabbed in the dark. Don't worry, I'm also in the
• 1:14:16
  same boat. Yeah, I mean, I got instinct
• 1:14:17
  before you said anything was 500,000.
• 1:14:21
  I think that's probably low though, if we did 4000 in a day.
• 1:14:24
  What? Was the original one that was
• 1:14:26
  the first 4000 people. Yeah, North America did it in
• 1:14:29
  about 18 hours and EU did it in about 8 hours because they're
• 1:14:34
  superior. Yeah.
• 1:14:37
  Anyways, I think that what is going to happen is that people
• 1:14:45
  are going to do a lot of it early.
• 1:14:50
  It will U shape and there'll be people who push it at the very
• 1:14:53
  end because like, oh crap, it's closing.
• 1:14:55
  And so I suspect that it's probably actually going to be
• 1:14:58
  lower than what Lex was guessing.
• 1:15:00
  I'm going to say as you know, because 4000, yeah, I'm going to
• 1:15:05
  say that across all regions, we're looking at 200,000, OK.
• 1:15:16
  Yeah, OK, I'm excited. This is this is fun.
• 1:15:18
  I like this. OK, We're going to be we're
• 1:15:21
  going to have a lot of egg on our face when it's like 1800.
• 1:15:25
  1800, yeah, yeah, I mean. It's tuned so hard.
• 1:15:30
  No, I, I considering how much they enjoyed, how accessible,
• 1:15:35
  how much people enjoyed this tier.
• 1:15:38
  I don't think that they're swinging the meter, the
• 1:15:43
  metronome to the other side to making everything hard again.
• 1:15:46
  I think that we're going to have the same relative difficulty
• 1:15:50
  with a few things that they'll have to bump out, but they will.
• 1:15:53
  And I don't think that the end boss will likely be like that.
• 1:16:00
  We'll see. But I think that's going to do
• 1:16:02
  it for us today. I want to give a special thanks
• 1:16:06
  to our patrons. If you do enjoy the content that
• 1:16:10
  we put out there, consider becoming a Patreon for Azeroth
• 1:16:14
  will always be free, but we are putting out a number of early
• 1:16:19
  access and Patreon exclusive episodes onto the feed almost
• 1:16:24
  every week now, so check it out at patreon.com/faz.
• 1:16:31
  Until next time, though, may all your hits be quits.