Latest / Reality Writes / Building a Mystery Community—A How-To Discussion

Transcript

Building a Mystery Community—A How-To Discussion · Reality Writes

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: And hello everybody.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to reality rights.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, it's real today.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_02: It's really real.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_02: We have spent the last 15 minutes saying hello, hello, hello, test, test, test, test.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_02: No, can you hear me now?
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_02: Can you hear me now?
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_02: Can you hear me now?
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: There we are, Valerie.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_02: It's been fun.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_02: It's been good times.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, this is like this is what we say about reality rights, right?
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: Is you get the authentic Ellie and the tech guy.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: And let me tell you, sometime the bleep just doesn't work.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_02: Oh dear.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_02: Well, um as a real intro for the podcast, welcome to reality rights.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_02: This is the podcast where we take you behind the scenes for all things writing, bookish, and um just general debacles like today.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_02: This is my second debacle of the day.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_02: We'll talk about that in a minute.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_02: I am Makarelli Alexander, and I'm here with the tech guy who's a little crabby right now.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'm better, but I'm just I don't like making people wait.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so and I'm terrible at it too, because then I know it like my freaking out doesn't help the situation at all.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: But um yeah.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_02: Hi Cassandra, thanks for joining us.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for sticking around.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_02: Everybody's like, where are you?
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: You say too, too, fashionably late, fashionably late.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_02: Fashionably late to our own party.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_02: That's how it goes.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, totally.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_02: So what do we have to chat about today now that we actually have sound?
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_02: Uh just kind of important in the podcast.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it is it is really nice to have sound.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so today uh we are going to chat about um building a mystery community, uh and what it takes to do that.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: So this would be a good episode for writers, like new writers out there, or even you know, experienced uh writers or authors that um just want to continue building their audience and stuff.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um and the difference between a community and like a social following, um, they're not always the same.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_02: They're definitely not always the same.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_02: I think this is also a good one for any darlings, any readers out there who are part of different writing communities to weigh in and and talk about like what makes um a bookish community work and why they're so important, and especially why they're so important right now at this particular juncture in the world where we're all feeling very siloed and AI is on the rise.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_02: I think the anecdote to that is going to be a lot more showing up and being in community and real spaces with people.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_02: So I actually love that piece.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so we're gonna talk about, you know, uh how how you go from zero uh people to, you know, thousands of darlings um, you know, who actually care about your your life, not just your books, right?
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, through where you make real connections.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um so we're also gonna talk about the fact that it's not something that's built overnight.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um it takes it takes it takes a long time, uh, it takes consistent authentic effort.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you know, as we talked about already, you get to see the authenticity here for sure.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: That is for sure.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I think we should dive in right now to that piece of it because uh this is one thing that I talk to new writers and my coaching students about all the time, is the way that you show up in the world.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_02: And uh I think I was really impacted by this early on in my writing career when I went to uh some of the bigger conferences in particular.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_02: And um, there was a bit of an old guard of authors uh who really had this philosophy that it's like, well, we are the authors over here, and readers are over here on this side.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_02: You can't see me, darlings, because uh this is gonna be a podcast.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_02: But this concept that um there should be a divide, and I just I didn't jam with that.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like there's there's such a point of connection that happens around books, and that's always been true for me as a reader, and so I think it's hugely important to show up as your real self because if you have seen me or the tech guy um on a live stream, you're gonna see that same personality in real life if you come uh to a book event or Ashla Mystery Fest or something like that.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um in terms of authenticity, I think sharing some of the fails, things that go wrong, the challenges and the struggles is also important on multiple levels, not just because it helps peel back that curtain a little bit and let darlings and readers and writers see behind the scenes in terms of what's happening with writing, because writing is hard and you're you're solo a lot of times and in your head.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_02: And then once the book is out in the world, you have readers who love it or readers who don't love it.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_02: And you need a village and people who are gonna cheer you on and give you obviously constructive feedback.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I also just I think it's fun sometimes.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_02: So, like today, for example, before we have the debacle with the sound, tomorrow is my brother's birthday, and I am making man um my signature chocolate cake that I have probably made no exaggeration 25 times over the years because at least requests at least, right?
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, my brother always wants it for his birthday.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_02: Sky Guy Luke usually gets it for his birthday.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_02: I baked it this morning before the podcast, anticipating that then it could cool all afternoon because cakes need to cool before you frost and layer them.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_02: And um, it totally bombed.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know what I did, I have no idea, but I literally had to run back to the grocery store, buy all the same ingredients again, race back home.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_02: I had my own great British bake-off moment before we started, and then the sound didn't work.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so you know, I think things like that are are fun.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I want to know that about authors who are writing.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_02: I want to know that like everything doesn't always work out perfectly because otherwise it's a little intimidating, right?
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: No, that was funny too.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, uh not at the time, I'm sure you didn't think it was, but I was sitting in the living room and you walked in and you're like, I have to go back to the store.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, what?
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: Why did we forget something?
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: We were just there, and you said, No, the cake bombed, it just bombed.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, What?
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: I just you know, but it happens, and you don't know why.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: You don't know why.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_02: I have no idea why.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I have a theory, I think it was because I used butter instead of oil, but I don't exactly know why that would be the case.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe I beat I whipped the butter too long, I'm not sure.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but you know what?
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_02: I tried it again, and I'm sure it's gonna work out perfectly the second time.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: But but okay, so we uh uh you've talked about this before, um, but this is probably the key to everything um is authenticity over marketing, right?
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: You're so you have to do both.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: You just if if you're an author who wants to make money writing books, you have to write them or just continue or or be able to write your books, you have to market them.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: But that being said, there's there's a way to do it that builds community, and there's a way to do it that just like gets in people's faces.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and so like an early mistake, I think, is to just try to just do the marketing and not build the community.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: So it's the buy my book, buy my book, buy my book, and not here's who I am, here's what I'm writing about, here's how I write, here's my process, um, you know, and sharing with your audience.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think that, and you you've been like that since the beginning.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I know you teach this in your course and you work on this with your coaching clients and stuff, but I mean, talk a little bit about that.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: That is like, I think the key to the whole foundation, right?
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, I think everyone sort of anticipates that you get a book contract or you put your first book out in the world and suddenly there are just like millions and millions of people who know who you are.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_02: Usually not true.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_02: That happens once in a million, right?
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_02: But um I I also think that um because there's so much noise in the market and in the book world, there's this tendency of just being like, like you're saying, I'm just gonna shove my book in your face.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_02: The example that I often give, and this is kind of dated now because thankfully they don't really exist so much because malls have sort of died off.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_02: But back in the day, I remember um going shopping after the holiday season with my mom for all the sales, and you would walk through the perfume department, and people are just like spritzing your face, like here, and you're like, oh, I don't, I don't want peachy perfume in my mouth.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't want to even try that.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_02: And um historically there's sort of been that's how book promotion has worked.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I mean, I think that's even true, like kind of some of the messaging you get from the big publishing houses too, is just like, hey, just keep posting, posting, posting, posting about your book.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_02: Like that doesn't feel great.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_02: That doesn't feel authentic to me.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I would much rather connect with people and darlings on a on a human and on a personal level, and also on a bookish level, because I'm a reader first.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_02: So if if we are interested in reading the same things, it's probably likely that you might resonate with my writing then too, because that's how we develop our voice.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_02: That's how, you know, all of those pieces of writing come together.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_02: I think I I learned this lesson really early on at a few book events that I did too, where I would show up early on in my career and there would be two or three people there.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I would be like, oh no, like no one's coming.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_02: And instead, I just quickly flipped that script in my head and I'm like, wait, there are two or three people here who are interested in my book, who maybe have their book in their hands.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_02: Like, that's amazing.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so connecting and building those relationships, I think, is the key way that um you can build a lasting career in writing.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and like you said, it doesn't happen overnight.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_02: It takes time and effort, but it's it's so worth it.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's, I mean, the the reward is invaluable on the other side.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I just I can't believe over the years how many friendships I've developed and uh this community of darlings.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like it is just the best part of writing.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um, if you can let yourself go there.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_02: I will say I know that um from coaching a lot of different personality types of writing too.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_02: There are some writers who just, you know, they it that's really hard for them.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_02: They they live in those worlds, you know.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm not saying that like this is the only path for sure.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um, most of those writers still also don't love being like, hey, here's my book, here's my book, here's my book.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_02: Also, hi Sherry.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: It did, yes.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: Finally.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for thanks for sticking around.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um well, so the thing about people not loving to do it, um, that that is, I mean, I like 100% right.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I I had been doing this with you for years before I and I was always behind the camera before I came out in front of it.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, and at first I was just a little tiny picture down in the corner, and then and now look at look at me now.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: Woo! Uh no.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: No, but but one thing I would say for anyone who is unsure of themselves or just doesn't, you know, that it's they, you know, as far as writers who say, Oh, well, you know, doing video and stuff like that's difficult for me.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's not for me, and everything.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: I would encourage you to go to Ellie's YouTube channel and search for the intro video that we shot.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: How I haven't, that's right.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't I haven't changed it.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: Now I I gotta put that.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: Let's let's do that after this.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um but you can post a yeah, I you should post a link to it on your uh Patreon uh for your patrons.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: Because I it's a no, I mean it's a great example of you uh, you know, oh it's just like I I think the cat came in uh like scary ghost door just opened uh behind me.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, um I would just say that you know, watch that and you'll see just the the transformation that's happened over the past, I don't know, when did we record that?
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like eight years ago, nine years ago, something like that.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: It was it was a while, it was close to a decade ago for sure.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_02: And and I know and some people have been here the whole time with us, which is so fun.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, like we all bond together through that process, too.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_02: That goes back to just like showing up as your true self, like totally right, like totally trying to pretend like I'm perfect in any way, shape, or form.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_02: Because trust me, I'm not.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: No, but that was like that was like maybe two or three levels above like a hostage video.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, when when it comes to like because it was just like it's very scripted, it was very like just like I know, yeah.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: Here's the paper with the current date.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, it was like it was so funny.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: And and you we were just looking at that the other like a couple weekends ago, and you were like, Oh my goodness, like that is just I mean, but that's real.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: That's that that is totally authentic.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um right.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I do so I think one thing that can be intimidating, and uh the good news is the there's good news and bad news right now in terms of like just where social media has evolved, right?
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_02: There are a lot of flaws.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but especially in more of the early years of social media, there was also this this tracks back to kind of um, I think some of um the authors who came before me were getting that messaging maybe from their publicity teams of like, well, you need to show up and impart wisdom and talk about your craft and and be very serious, you know, because um the aesthetic of social media too was so polished and perfect.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and to go back to my baking veil, it's like I am not a professional pastry chef.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_02: I never have been.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_02: I I love watching the gorgeous cakes and pastries and deliciousness that real bakers make and share on Instagram, but mine are never gonna look like that.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't have a commercial kitchen and I'm not an artist.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, so that can be really, I think, intimid intimidating too.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so trying to find that sweet spot between like, okay, I want to show you like what I know and what I can do, but I'm not gonna pretend, and or like there was a point in time when um there were quite a few cozy culinary authors who were like renting separate kitchens to try to like, you know, uh, I don't know, like show that this is like your set, which I guess there's that whole balance of like, I love the idea of spending more time in a fictional world.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_02: So, like, what's the in-between in terms of okay, here's what my cake really looks like, and here's my my home life.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you're gonna see my real kitchen.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and and then there's the the part about like I I think you do yourself a disservice to and trust me, there like no judgment here.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: There are some amazing bakers and cooks out there, like, but at the end of the day, if you're renting a kitchen that's not yours and you're you're trying to pass that off as yours, you better bring the goods when it comes to the finished product.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you've got this immaculate, like just amazing looking kitchen, and then you end up with the you know Pinterest versus reality, like you know, baking fail at the end, it's gonna look that much worse.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I think and and toward test kitchen, those videos that we did, that was a perfect example because we we did those in our own kitchen, and I think you even shared some behind the scenes, like it was a lot of work.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: Every time we had to set that up, it was like you know, C stands with lights overhead, and like just all like mics and like yeah, talk about tech fails every time.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: The baking wasn't the only thing that failed when we were shooting those, but it was real, and and you know, it we did we enjoyed doing them.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think at the end of the day, it really like helps build community because it's showing you like your personality, my personality, and and this is like what is real behind the books.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_02: Although we were saying like back in the day, it would have been great to have a commercial because you're right, like it was a gob of work to set that kind of stuff up.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, I think I think there's just um for for new writers in particular, there's an insane amount of pressure to feel like your books have to perform right away and you have to be an expert in all the things.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so my advice is just start slow, pick one outlet where you feel really comfortable, show up there.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, and it could be something like email.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_02: I get incredible email messages and have from the beginning from readers.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and they've those relationships have turned into longtime friendships and and we email back and forth and and readers, darlings will share, you know, events about their lives.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_02: I've gotten to know their children, their their partners, their pets um over the years.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_02: And so, like, it doesn't mean that you have to show up, you know, in an auditorium of 10,000 people or that you have to have a million social media followers.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_02: It's just about responding.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like, if somebody emails me, I'm going to email them back.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, the same goes for letters.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_02: I get letters from all over the world.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so like if somebody writes me, I always try to write them back.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_02: And um, so any point of connection, I think, is the key for me.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, definitely.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um talk a little bit about handling growth and boundaries as you begin building the community because you know, you get to a point where how much personal sharing is too much, right?
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, right.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_02: I know.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_02: I I do think there's a blurry line there.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um semi-early on in my writing career, there was this point at which I was like, ooh, okay, I gotta pull back a little bit because there was a reader who dropped baked goods off at our house, um, who I didn't know.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_02: Like I had met this reader at like a book event, but otherwise I hadn't I didn't know them at all.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_02: And that felt a little bit like, ooh, okay.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I'm sure that they were well intended.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it was very sweet.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_02: Like, and and there is that point in which, you know, you're connecting over food.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_02: It's a love language.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_02: Jules talks about that all the time.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_02: I love to bake.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: But but if we did we didn't know this reader knew where you lived.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_02: So our our address wasn't public.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_02: So um that felt that felt like um a point for me to be like, okay, um, probably that's that's a boundary for me.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_02: Uh over the years, there have been few and far between, but there have been a few instances at book events and signings where a reader, like, I feel like they go too far in terms of um interactions with me, let's say.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_02: And then I will uh it will just be really clear and put up a boundary, like, oh, you know, like no, I can't do that for you, or you know, I'm not comfortable with XXX.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_02: I won't go into specifics, but um yeah, I think there there can be a fine line between how much you share and and I think that's really a personal decision for each writer.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_02: For me, one thing that I was really cognizant of was Sky Guy, um, our son, who is now in his early 20s and has graduated from college.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_02: But when I first started writing, he was in elementary school.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and he loved showing up to book events because he would be Sekurry, make his own badge.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_02: He would have a walkie-talkie.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so he had tasks to do at book events, and readers got to know him.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I mean, I will start to cry if I think about this, but like over the years, the same relationships that I've learned about Darling's families, the same has been true for Sky Guy, but you know, there's like this whole world of people that um know about him and are cheering him on.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_02: But um, I have already been really protective about social media.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I rarely share photos of him.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_02: And even back when he was in elementary school, if there was a photo where he would be included, I would always ask permission.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_02: I still to this day ask permission.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_02: Like our niece, um, we had a funny picture of our niece with the original Meg, the first Meg book.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_02: And then um we met up with them for coffee a few weeks ago, and I was like, oh, we should recreate this picture because the new Meg is out, and you know, she was like three at the time and now she's a high schooler.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so I ended up sharing that, but I asked her and her parents' permission, obviously.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_02: So I I think that's um that's a real personal decision for each author.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, for me, I'm I'm I'm pretty much an open book.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_02: Like I'm I'm pretty willing to share.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: share a lot about my personal life because so much does blend into my writing life.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_02: But um the boundaries would be more about like, you know, our family keeping those sort of things personal, I guess.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: No, that I agree.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's good that you brought that up about Sky Guy, um, which is not his real name, just in case anybody's wondering that so it should have been really.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um I actually I I was I was going to move on to managing expectations as the community grows and Cherry asks a great question which is related to that and oh my God Cherry this is real.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's just like this is the struggle right so so for those just listening that uh she asked what about social uh what about social media burnout um yeah you know I go through phases where I want to go off the grid.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah you know you want to go off the grid you run out of ideas you run you know everything.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I I'm gonna say my thing first and then Google because the one word of caution that I want to give to everybody out there whether you're uh an author an aspiring writer or you have another business and you're looking to do social media and everything do not fall for the trap for all of these influencers that you'll see online like do you know put together one year of content in 60 minutes like that you're not gonna do that.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like could you make 60 like you know or 365 posts in 60 minutes?
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: Are they going to be quality things that you want to share with your audience that you want to help grow your audience that people are going to be interested in that people are going to want to share absolutely not like tools like Canva I could crank out a thousand posts for Ellie to use on her social media channels but why you would we are do you all want to see 10 quotes of the day every day from Ellie you know I mean it just doesn't that that that kind of thing and I think that that messaging is out there and it's so pervasive and and it just I think it wears people down.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: So it is hard it is a struggle to constantly come up with stuff um and to be on social media all the time.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: I know it is for me and I'm new to all of this.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: You're the one in front of the camera all the time.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: So talk a little bit about that.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah no I agree with that a hundred percent I um I think a few things to tag on to that is to to take breaks you know like if you're feeling like you want to go off the grid for a while go off the grid for a while like it's totally fine.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_02: Because there's also that grind that social media wants to keep you on.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_02: It's like oh well the algorithm is going to reward you if you post more often like and so you can get like and I've been guilty of getting sucked into that like oh no I need to post every day.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_02: Like no that's not manageable.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_02: And if we're writing as writers Sherry like that's the number one thing that I want my energy going to I want my energy going to books and stories and then again to personal connections.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_02: So I try to be conscientious about like if I'm gonna post a social, I also want to know that I've got a little time to then go and respond and like talk talk back to people who are engaging with me in that way.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_02: The other thing that I try to balance is making sure that I'm sharing things that also like fill me with joy or like expand the book world.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_02: You know, for me it's always like oh I'm going back to Failoli next week because I'm working on the next Annie and Fletcher novel.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_02: And so I I want to bring you darlings along with me like maybe somebody else is like I've seen pictures of that garden.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_02: It looks great but I'm tired of it Ellie well I don't care because this is the real truth of like what I'm doing today.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_02: Over the years um on and off a few times we have tried like the whole like you can use social media management tools like not just Canva but you know like some kind of built-in posting calendar and I will do it for like a couple weeks and then it goes back to the authenticity.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_02: It just doesn't feel real to me because some post I created about coffee, let's say a coffee recipe from Andy a month ago now isn't resonating because what I'm working on is something totally different or there's a big event in the world and I don't want to be posting about you know my sweet little jewels in Ashland.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah I think I think finding ways to check out is important.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_02: And the last thing I will say on this I really do believe that like we are craving more connection with each other.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_02: That is the thing that's the whole reason behind me creating Ashland Mystery Fest.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_02: That's the reason that I stay on social media at all because of these friendships and relationships that I've built here in this community.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_02: That's one reason I'm loving Patreon because it feels like oh my gosh I get to actually like have connection with all of these people.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_02: So um it is about being really intentional with your energy and where you're putting it um and finding ways to build those ongoing connections because otherwise it does just feel like a dizzying assault these days with social.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I mean the algorithms have all changed anyway you can't keep up I mean that that would be a full-time job.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: You know that tech guy like yeah yeah well well I I mean the other thing that I will add to that uh well first I was gonna make a joke about you know for the first 15 minutes of the podcast today I just felt like going off grid.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's why we weren't on that we were just totally totally uh no I the I mean the other thing I'll say is um like with everything else like COVID messed all of this up right because there was a period of a a couple of years there where you know we spent most of our time in our house and we weren't going out much and so we were online a lot more and you like I'm I'm saying we like you and me and I know this may be true of of some of the the darlings listening out there and and everything too I totally but this goes back to the whole managing expectations thing when during COVID we were doing lives all the time I think we were doing two weeks at some point and we were you know we we were posting online we had so much going we're making videos we're doing everything and then like life started to get back to what whatever this is now and um I I I'm not using the word normal because it's not um but uh um but I like the that all of that stuff takes time it takes time and so that's why it like that question from Cherry just like totally resonates with me because it's like even doing this it's a lot of time and then you know poor Ellie has to listen to me running around swearing and trying to like plug it in cables and unplugging cables and and you know to get everything to work.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: And then at the end of the day like it's just not that big a deal and I freak out for nothing and and you know I spend a lot more energy on something and then we get in the middle of it and I'm like oh this is actually fun but it also takes time so it's like you know I and I know that that like the darlings out there that that you know they they want more content everything and and I want to I and I want to give them as much as they will consume but it just like you do have to have a balance um you totally have to have a balance.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_02: And do the thing that like brings you joy if it's not bringing you joy if it's feeling like a chore a slog I talk about this all the time with with writing too that that's gonna come through like if you show up and you're like oh I have to do this that's probably a sign that it's time to just take a little break.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I just like I highly encourage readers and writers like in your own space like how do you how else can you create bookish community around you?
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_02: Like for me that that was starting a book club here.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_02: So I have a mystery in Mocktails book club and so like once a month it's a whole group of readers who are often strangers like there's a contingent that's been coming consistently but every month I pick a new mystery we read we laugh like it's just the salve for the soul to be in shared space with readers.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like there is nothing better than that.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_02: So that's that has nothing to do with my books whatsoever.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_02: We're not reading my books.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not talking about my books I don't even want to think about my books when I'm there like I'm not comparing like the writers who are reading like it it's just it's just a thing that brings me joy to talk about other books with other people who love to read.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_02: So I think any little thing like that that you can do, you know, whether it's going to your local bookstore or library or um you know the new trend is silent book club nights at bookstores where you just go and you bring your book and you read in a cozy corner and then at the end maybe there are some snacks and if you want to talk you can and if not you can just take off and leave like anything like that.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks Cassandra I appreciate it.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um I appreciate all of you too I know sure yeah yeah it does yeah go ahead yeah no I mean you're gonna say the same thing I am it is scary I mean I remember like going back to that YouTube video I make fun but that that is like 100% you had more guts than I did when you recorded that video because I was like I can I can't do it like yeah I can't do this and I'd be yelling whether I'd be like I'm Ellie he's like not loud like energy we're not trying to scare people we're just why we want them to actually like you um you know be be yourself so like to Lily's thing uh you know saying it's so scary to try and start the thing is like just be authentic and be yourself and and and authenticity and no comparison like don't because either like this is a podcast we're doing a podcast there are thousands of podcasts out there we're never gonna have as many listens as like well the uh um uh only murders podcast new heights oh heights yeah I know I knew you were thinking of new heights I mean uh I the day we get as many listens as new heights I I like that's it I'm just so like I feel like don't stop that is like oh my goodness that would be amazing um love story is the theme song for jewels back in the day it could happen anyway sorry we dig this really no but I'm just saying like you're like start with something that challenges you but doesn't terrify you and and and and and just know that the first time you do it it's going to be bad it just is if you've never been in front of a camera before if you've never talked into a microphone before it it you're going to do it every to this day every single time I go back and I do the post production on the these podcasts I hate the sound of my voice I hate it I'm I'm like I I feel like I'm talking into a pillow I'm like do I sound that muffled and nasally when I talk normally because it doesn't sound that way in my head but then I hear it on the mic and I'm like this is awful but then I'm like well it's my voice so I can't there's nothing I can do I mean actually there is now I could use ai I could sound like anybody but uh um sexy right totally but I my point is it everybody is everybody is different and everybody has an authentic self that they can bring and build an audience around and you will find your people and that's the thing you just need to take time to build that community um being your authentic self I would add Lily that back in the day you showed up in a tigger costume yeah it's true I forgot about that scream that's right you my friend can crush it no cleft in or maybe that's what you do maybe you are just like tig like you put on a costume like that would be hilarious um and you show up and it's like the tigger story hour or something like oh my gosh yeah we should totally do that again this Halloween as a live um have people show up in costumes that was fun yeah let's do it hey I just saw Tish is going to a silent book club next Saturday Tish you got a report back Tish also has a book coming out on September 15th oh I got the yeah there we go I got the applause on Agatha Christie's birthday which is just chef's kiss in my personal opinion way to go Tish but I will be super interested to hear what you think about Silent Book Club.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: I have not been to them yet but my friend Lee who owns the bookstore here in Sunnyvale where I do our mysteries and mock tales she's been hosting one for I think like a year now Mel's on this sometimes who works at the store um and they're really popular like it's so fun and it's a great way to meet other book people so yeah bring it on yeah see this is my point Lily thank you uh by the way but uh this is my point like you're always gonna be your own worst critic right you're not gonna like the way you look you're not gonna like the way you sound but other people are going to be like that's fantastic like you there's you know it's perfect go for it so um just know that it's it's it it's not something I think that that a lot of people get over easy some people are naturals um some people can just go out and do it but then you know it it's it it's a challenge but you you will be sort of like me that look like you're um literally recording a host hello don't make me do this yeah totally oh yeah Tish I forgot to say the name of your book not before you enter K N O T Not Before you enter I'll share it on social too I'm so excited for you it's awesome way to go Tish right um yeah I just anything that you can do that um that lets you show up in any space with even one person.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_02: Oh gosh Valerie tech guy suddenly has a Scottish accent next week yeah should read that yeah we'll hear it yeah that'd be awesome yeah oh I just spotted a sky guy walk by behind you oh speaking of not being on camera I was just yes now he's gonna hide the cat the cat opened the door yeah you usually can't see just an Easter egg for any of you podcast listeners later gonna have to gonna have to go back and freeze it and it'll look like a Sasquatch photo or something that's totally blurry yeah exactly yeah oh um yeah oh sorry Ellie Cassandra you're gonna see me in Sun River if your daughter-in-law has your grandbaby and well I feel like the priority might be the grandbaby so good luck to your um daughter when is the baby due?
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_02: I need to know and yes I'm gonna be in Bend not next week but it's a week after I'm so excited to go back to Sun River books.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_02: This is the other thing when you show up places also building relationships um with booksellers and everyone who works at bookstores because they're all gonna be part of your community.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_02: But I think the big takeaway for me in terms of building real authentic relationships is you need them as a writer.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_02: Like you all you darlings you have no idea the impact that you have in terms of just cheering me on or a kind word or you know reading first pages and being like okay yeah I liked that but maybe you know have you thought about this or um sending the ideas in our Patreon group getting to brainstorm new characters especially at this stage of my career when I'm like I I have no names left in me.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_02: I've I've killed too many people off over the years.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_02: So I think just having a sense of community has a ripple effect in terms of every piece of your writing which is such a huge gift.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_00: Totally yeah I it's funny that you went into that because my next question um kind of the last one I guess was going to be like you know you do get benefits of building the community beyond just the relationships and and I don't mean that to belittle the relationships because those are first and foremost but there are other advantages to building the community and you know what as a writer and and that you just went through some of them it's it's so fun to see um just kind of the collective uh you know love for a series or characters or whatever and um have like like you know has the community influenced your writing over the years like in terms of changing actually changing things that you had planned that you then decided to go another route because people were like or yeah you should do that I mean I don't I I probably wouldn't have kept writing Sloan at all uh without these darlings because oh yeah uh there was so much love after that series got canceled that I was like well wait a minute I could I could you're right I could do this I could try this so I really think that is huge that's championed me for sure and then there are definitely story ideas without spoilers um that have come collectively for sure so um yeah yeah definitely and then there's pressure sometimes too that's where you have to go back to the balance point where Phoenix are gonna be like but you have to do this Ellie well maybe maybe not well I already yeah I know that all that they all I spotted him yeah um but you just mentioned Sloan again so people are gonna be now be asking like well when when is book seven coming out so it's true it's true I don't know I don't know yet we'll see becauseander says the baby's due on the 17th so okay I'm sending you and your daughter all the good baby vibes how exciting maybe if I see you in Sun River you can bring a picture see this is all full circle it's not we're not even like making this up that's how hope communities work.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_02: Oh I love it.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yes and um I do think the last thing that I would love to say about this is also the friendships that get made um collectively right that aren't just us that there are so many readers that have connected with one another and built friendships.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_02: And I've seen that firsthand at Ashland Mystery Fest and that just is that will make me tear up that's just such a beautiful thing to to see in in real life and um online like I remember Anna Louise and Joseph like made this connection that they had gone to the same high school and them's in North Carolina and somebody else's in Pennsylvania like it's that's just amazing to me.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_02: What a gift.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah totally well that's all I had for this uh this week um so after the yeah after the debacle um it turned out all right it always does thanks to the darling uh until next time uh and then for those of you who are joining us at the after party stay tuned for a link it's coming all right until next time bye