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Gape Expectations · Like a Virgin

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: I had this nightmare that I was cast onto drag
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Grace and I was competing in the profits. There was
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: a moment during the show where the cameras were down
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: and I needed to go use the bathroom. And when
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: I was taking a ship, they were like calling like places, places,
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: and I was like, fuck, I need to like go,
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: And then all of a sudden, the walls of the
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: bathroom dropped and I was sitting on the toy that
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: in front of the entire cast of this Drag Race
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: season and Row laughing at me, and the whole thing
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: had been staged. I'm not proud of this, but I've
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: never been on the Dakota Johnson train. You know what,
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: fran I will not accept any Dakota Johnson slander, because
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: today we are lifting Dakota up and celebration and thanking
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: her for the amazing, incredible show stopping never the same bus, club,
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: another club, another club, bus, no sleep, next plane, no sleep.
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: Gift that she gave the world, which is fifty shades
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: of gray, yes, and then after that, of course, becoming
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: the crew the director of a very bougie lube company
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: that I will say I was a fan of before
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: she hopped Onto, but it is a great loop Virgins.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: Today we are talking about fifty shades of great, not
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: just the movies, not just the books, but the fifty
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: shades of great phenomenon, which is you know that these
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: are the best selling books of the twenty tents. Um.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: This was a moment in pop culture, took pop culture
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: by storm, and we will be revisiting it because this
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: is like a Virgin the show where we give yesterday's
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: pop culture today's takes. I'm ros Damo and I'm Fran Toroto. Fran,
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: are you ready to be tied up and dominated? Um,
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: you're asking for my consent? Um? No, okay, And I
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: guess podcast over and just like that season one, and
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: I mean what I'm hoping is the only season of
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: and just like that, but probably won't be has ended.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: What did you think? What did you think of the finale?
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: I mean you hated it obviously, but what's your nuanced
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: and can you provide analysis of why you hated it? Yeah?
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: There were parts of it that I liked, Okay, I
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: loved Carrie's dress in Paris incredible, although he did she
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: should have been wearing the carry necklace. Um. I loved Harry.
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: Harry was amazing. Let's let's start with Harri okay, because
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: Harry sucked up every scene. Harry like now joins the
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: legacy of iconic Sex in the City guest stars. That's
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: so true. She really brought that zaney nous back into
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: Sex in the City. I think that's something that's really
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: were we were missing from this reboot. And just like
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: that universe is so much And here's the thing. The
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: buzz around Harry is a lot. And they originally had
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: her reading for the book publisher role, and then they
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: had her comeback in and they wrote this role for Harry,
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: which is thank how much they liked her. She need
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: she needed room to breathe. I'm glad we got so
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: much Rabbi Jen and she was so integrated into the
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: storyline and to all the girls storylines. Yes, she was
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: like the Deos x Machina of like their relationship drama honestly,
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: which I loved um and I foresee Harry in season two.
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: To be honest, I think that makes her the fourth
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: girl good well, I mean I don't know about I mean,
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: she would be amazing at them as the fourth note.
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: But we should use her, use her space. I don't
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: think they deserve her. I don't actually trust these women
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: with like a trans friend because hart character is trans
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: in this iteration at the at the mitzvah, which I mean,
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: I guess let's getting to the stuff that I didn't like.
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: Because Rock York Golden Black needs to be in jail. Um.
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: I think actually everyone and and just like that should
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: be in jail. The only person who shouldn't be is
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: Rabbi Jen. She can have the keys, she can lock
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: them up, but everyone everyone else belongs in prison. I
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: will say, as a Jews I was happy to see
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: like such an accurate representation of what one of these
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: over the top barmitz was looks like that being said,
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: it was so unrealistic that they would just let Rock
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: not go through with it. Although it was funny to
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: see them trying to bribe Rock, because that is very
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: fucking funny. What do you want an oculut? That definitely
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: happened to me in some way, like I was given
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: some kind of material reward for like training for my
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: bar mitzvah, but like just trying to bribe Rock just
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: to do it was like I imagine that has happened
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: to a lot of people, but what a fucking little
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: piece of ship. I feel like I had a slightly
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: different takeaway from this. I was on Team Rock. I
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: thought also Rock licked Dora that I have to go.
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: I've got to go. This podcast is over. Rock was
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: not a Team Rock podcast. Also, have never heard Rocky
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: or Golden Black said out loud, which is was very
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: jarring for you to say, But now that I'm hearing it,
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: like I I know this person. I know Rocky or
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: Golden Black like a some crunchy queer hipster pretending to
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: be some crunchy queer hipster, but it's actually, yeah, yeah,
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: We've worked with them, We've had sex with them, we've
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: been at parties with them. Like but I I, you know,
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: I thought it was an amazing plot point, and I
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: was totally on rock side about kind of coming coming
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: at a head in so many different areas of your
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: life and being like, Okay, these are all the things
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: I've called in a question about my gender, So of course,
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: like when like when I start to think about my religion,
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna like question that too. And you know, a
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: kid would wait until the eleventh hour to decide that
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: they don't want to do this anymore, and I thought
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: it was also I wish I had been explained more,
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: but it was a really nice way to tie together
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: what was wrong about the whole experience, which is that
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: the whole day mitzvah was really about Charlotte. It was
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: about what Charlotte wanted. Yeah, that was a mits was
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: are about I know, but that's about the parents. Like
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: that's kind of what Rock was trying to say but couldn't.
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: And so suck it up, suck it up and take
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: the thousands of dollars you're going to get his gifts. Yeah,
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: And honestly, the vibe Roc was getting with a little
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: like like kind of like a coexist kind of queer
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: like kind of I did like Rock Suit. I like
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: Ross Suit. The pink suit was great. I mean otherwise, like,
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: I guess we have to talk about jay I. Okay,
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: Chad is announcing their pilot via song at a huge
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: party when like, I mean, yeah, getting a pilot is exciting,
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: but also like that pilot is probably not getting picked up,
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: and if it is, it's getting canceled after one season,
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: So like have the party later, you know, Yeah, it's
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: too early to celebrate. Although I love giving Sarah Ramirez
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: a chance to sing they are a Broadway icon, as
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: we have talked about. I thought like that the whole Miranda,
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna go with you to l A thing was
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: like really unhinged. I loved and going back to Harry,
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: like the scene in the bathroom where they kind of
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: like come at ahead of like are you going to Paris?
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: Are you going to l A? Are you going to
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: do both or neither? Whatever? Like that was so real,
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: And I thought Miranda saying I'm allowed to change, like
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: I'm allowed to completely up end everything you know about
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: me as a character because I'm having a crisis, like
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: I am calling into question everything that I've believed before
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: this moment. I thought that that earned a lot of
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: what we saw this season that was like so frustrating
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: about you know, Miranda becoming this kind of hard to
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: watch character. I don't know. There was just no resolution
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: for it, though, because the resolution like saying I'm allowed
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: to change, isn't the resolution of a story, especially if
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: this does end up being the only season, Like that's
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: where we leave Miranda. Yeah, I just need you to
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: know that I don't I don't care who I'm dating
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: I don't care if I'm dating like this Disney like
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: prince of a human being. Like I would never ever
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: pass up on a trip to Paris with you to
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: dispel your husban. Thank you. That's really sweet of you.
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: I would also never pay for you to come to
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: Paris with me. I did love that. Once Miranda canceled,
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: Carrie was like, Charlotte, I'm not going to Paris to people,
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: there's no way. It was extremely accurate though it's and true.
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: I mean, and Charlotte knows her place. She's like, yeah,
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: like word like I understand. Yeah, with the Shadeas of
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: it all, you know. I was reading this Vulture article
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: where they interviewed all of the writers from and just
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: like that, and one of them was saying, like, oh, yeah,
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: we knew people were going to hate Shadeas, like that
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: was the point. They were supposed to be this like caricature.
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: And that just made me so angry because you can't
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: say that after the fact, to like retcon your bad
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: choices like that has to all be on the page
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: when you write the script and on the screen when
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: you shoot it. You can't say after you've seen all
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: the tweets, like ha ha, we knew, we knew everyone
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: was going to be Team Steve, like this was all intentional,
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: because that's not clear from the show. All you have
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: is the text and it doesn't It didn't work, And
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: I call bullshit on that. I call bullshit as well,
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: especially when there are no Latin or non binary writers
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: in this room. It just makes them look bad, like
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: they're punching down, you know what I mean. If like
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: there were a bunch of men like writing a role
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: for a woman as to like, you know, why she's
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: like a funk up or whatever, like why she's like
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: a villain, Like you would feel kind of a type
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: of way about that, you know what I mean. There's
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: a difference between creating a character that is so villainous
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: that you love to hate them. She is someone we
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: hate to hate. Like it's not fun to watch. There's
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: nothing about what brings this character together that is satiating.
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: And I think it's a testament to the intentions of
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: their writing and what we see actually on screen versus
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: like what we're reacting to. It's just it's just not
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: sticking the landing to me. Also, sorry, she would never
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: be monogamous, So there's I don't understand nor should nor
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: should they have to be, you know, which is why
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: it's like such a missed opportunity for there to be
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: queer queer like actually like nonminary writers in this room
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: to talk about like the nuances of what sex and
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: the City characters could learn about queer relationships, which has
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: so much to teach them. But honestly, this is rounding
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: to like what I feel as like my resounding point
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: about the finale, which is that where we are ending
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: at the end of season one is actually where we
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: we should have started, you know what I mean? I
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: feel like season would have been just like that is
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: so much like grief and like all these kind of
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: character rearranges and so much like upheaval that was like
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: not really earned, but like I would much rather start
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: the season with biggest Dad. Miranda is divorced and dating
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: someone non binary, you know, shar has a non binary kid.
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: Samantha is about to re enter the franchise question mark,
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: Like that is a starting point and I did not
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: need to watch like the season worth of what was
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: the Reject? Did Nicholas Sparks novel of like Carrie's grief
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: plot line? You know what? I mean, like it really
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: was not like the T and I didn't I didn't
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: need it to forget. Yes, I didn't need to watch
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: your like tragic kiss on a stoop with that, but
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: I did like the kiss with the hot producer. That
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: was good. We needed a start rebounds. Yeah, but like no,
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: I I do think it makes sense that it ends
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: in a more hopeful way than it started. Honestly, when
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: they were talking about Miranda, Miranda and her internship, Miranda
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: rejecting an are you kidding me? There isn't a world
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: where in any fifty plus year old woman is vying
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: for an internship or has any sort of stakes in
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: an unpaid internship. Well, also, like it was just too
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: late to introduce that as an obstacle, Like they should
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: have seeded that earlier in the season, like show us
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: her trying to get the internships, so we understand what
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: she's giving, and it should be like the state was
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: so unclear she I mean it could be an apprenticeship.
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: It should she should be at the directorial level, Like
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: there's she's studied, she has all this experience in another field.
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: She would have come back and been at a much
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: higher level. It just doesn't make sense. Um. But all
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: that to say, even though the finale was not really
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: that great at tying all of the ends that we
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: were interested in, I did enjoy my way through it,
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: um with with the exception of like the Talking Lamp
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: and like the ashes of it all. Yeah, well I
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: don't this is not you know, ooky spooky our. That's
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: not what I came here for. And like also her
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: saying that bigs in Heaven, I hate to break it
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: to you, but biggest burning in hell in hell in hell,
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: I am going to miss the show. I'm gonna miss. Well,
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna miss. I don't know what I'm going to
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: do on Thursdays anymore. Okay, Well, what have you been
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: watching this week? M oh, I've been listening to a
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: lot of the new music that's been coming out. I
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: shockingly love the new Mitsky album, and I am on record,
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: possibly on this podcast, as not really being into Mitsky. Surprising. Yeah,
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: it is surprising because she does seem like someone who
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: would be exactly my Josh, but Be the Cowboy really
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: didn't do it for me and I even after listening
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: to her new album, I went back and listened to
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: Be the Cowboy to be like, oh was I like
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: not giving it a fair shot, and no I still
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: don't like it. Um. I think it's this something specific
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: about this album, like it's very cynthy um, which I
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: really liked. Um, and you know, it's like so good
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: that I will even forgive it for only being like
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: thirty minutes long, which girls make your albums longer. We
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: are not. I'm not here for EPs. No, no, no cowards,
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: come on. I also I'm I'm I like Mitsky, but
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: I'm not a Mitsky head. This album also appealed to
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: me because if it's it's dance, I guess um vibes
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: I Love should have been me. That's maybe my favorite
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: song on the album. I think that should have been
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: the way it kind of like good. I Also one
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: of my friends, Jaslin, did the choreography for this Stay
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: is Soft music video I think, which is also a
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: really good song. Um. But yeah, I mean welcome to
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: the Mitsky clan. I'm I'm glad to have you Rose.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: All of the girls on this side of town are
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: are here to welcome you. Yeah. I loved like the
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: only heartbreaker is so good love me more. There's definitely
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: more of um, like a st vincent kind of vibe
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: on this album, which really appeals to me. And I'm
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: just so happy that we have, you know, these women
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: who are still making rock and roll um that you know,
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: because that is very much like a musical sweet spot
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: for me. Also, this weekend, I was listening to on
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: repeat um the machine Gun Kelly and Willow Songmo Girls.
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: I winced and then smiled because I was like, machine
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: Gun Kelly, No Willow, Yeah, Okay, yeah, it's a It's
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: the song called Emo Girl, and it's about being in
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: love with an emo girl, and it's like it's so
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: catchy and like addictive Willow. The Willow clubs are sick
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: the club with Avril when av was so good, perfect
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: use of Avril. I just it's it was so well done. Okay,
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: moving on to Drag Race. The only thing I have
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: to say is that this is the funniest mini challenge
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: in the history of Drag Race, point blank period. I
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: was it was very funny when Sa McLaughlin showed up,
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: I gag. I think the challenges have been really good
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: this season, like this and like last week where they
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: had to make the teaser, like that's very inventive and
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: I really like it. Um. My big takeaway from this
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: episode was Georgia's fucking eight that lip sing. Honestly, like
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: she should have um, I don't know, like one twice
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: because of it. They should she should have like retroactively
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: won the challenge because of how good that lip sync performance.
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: I kind of think Georgia should have been in the
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: bottom last episode two and maybe the episode before that,
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: because I would have loved to watch her lip sync
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: for her life every time, Like she I think is
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: an assassin. Like I don't think we even saw her
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: in that episode. No, I don't think so either. I
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: do wonder if she'll because I think I think about
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: like the narrative slots that that different contestants fill in
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: their season. I wonder if she will be one of
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: the ones who does poorly early on and then realizes
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: they have to step their pussy up and ends up
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: making it, you know, all the way to the end,
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: or vain, or or if she's just like, you know,
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: going to have a couple of fierce lip sings and
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: then eventually they're like, okay, but you still suck in
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: the challenges, so you're going home. Yeah, I mean it's
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: going to be a Cheachy or a Trinity Cabon, a
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: kind of redemption. Maybe I would love to see that,
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: to be honest, even if she's not technically as good
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: as some of the other girls. Are you watching UK
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: versus the World? I am, we are, you know, I
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: haven't watched it, but I'm I'm interested. Can I please
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: please please please, ma'am yeuse I I give you to
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: watch Drag Race Canada season one because like, I'm not watching.
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: I'm not watching. I'm not watching a seasonal drag Race
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: without RuPaul. No. That's another thing I'll say about this
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: current season of Drag Race that Mr Paul is kind
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: of serving like he's he's been really on his game. Um,
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: and I have to say, like, that's why I won't watch,
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: you know, like many of these international seasons, because it's
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: not drag Race without RuPaul for me. I mean, I okay,
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: I agree with the sentiment of what you're saying, especially
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: even though as I say that I can feel the
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: estrogen beings out of my body. Um. I think, um,
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: particularly with the game we watched, like I love that
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: they're straight up hazing Maddie morphosis, Like yeah, yeah, they
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: are like every like like when when it was Maddie's turn,
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: they were like, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's what I love, rude,
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: that's what Yeah, it was that very much was the
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: energy like you're gay but rose all of the virgin
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: I wish Maddie. I wish Maddy MorphOS is like said no,
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: homo before she started doing it, like I want her
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: to be in on the joke a little more if
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: we have to have her. Yeah, I agree, it's whatever.
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: But on that note, you would not be saying what
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: you're saying about rue if you saw her runway for
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: UK Versus the World, which I know you did because
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: you saw my Instagram story. But girl, she cleaned up
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: at Sheen. She got her this ugly ass velvet like
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: pink string. Who she dress so something you would wear
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: a till party. Yeah, looked like a full mall rat.
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, giving me my brats doll aesthetic. Yeah yeah, exactly,
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: a tell far bag in a poorly done smoky eye. Um.
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: But yeah, you're getting there. No, no, no, everyone sending
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: me please send in makeup tips for France. I will
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: I will receive makeup tips if you receive campaigns to
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: please watch Canada Season one because coming back to UK
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: Versus the World. Jimbo and his involvement in that season
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: is like essential knowledge for watching UK versus the World.
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: You have to see what Jimbo does with his art
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: in order to see someone send me in a YouTube
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: super cut with the highlights. I'll watch them. Fine, I'm
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: not watching the whole season. Okay, fine, fine, if you're
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: not going to watch it. But my point is for
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: those that aren't watching UK's Versus the World, I don't
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: know why it's called that. It's not formatted as a
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: UK versus the rest of the people on this show.
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: It is literally just International All Stars. It's All Stars rules.
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: So the winner's lip sync and they eliminate someone from
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: the bottom two. So, I mean, I love those rules.
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: I'm it makes it so much more fun to watch it.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: What's really fascinating is they did not enter the workroom.
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: They entered the runway, and it was kind of a
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: little like Meet the Queen's kind of moment, or re
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: Meet the Queen's kind of moment, as opposed to, um,
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: you know this, like we're chroom drama that kind of
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: happens at the beginning. But I mean, some of my
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: main takeaways from the show are that there's just like
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: nothing left behind Jujubes eyes, like she's just dead girl
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: dead inside. I I she is one of my all
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: time favorites, and it's it's really hard. She's one of
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: the best, She's one of the best, and it's so
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: hard to watch her do this because her soul just
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: isn't in it anymore at all. Like even big Juju
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: fans like me can admit that, like this was such
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: a below average like performance in the beginning of the show,
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: like you'll see it's just like so like not Juju,
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: And honestly, you just like see the light leaver eyes
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: as RuPaul cackles in the bathroom and as RuPaul cackles
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: in the background, Um, I just wanted to say, RuPaul's
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: in the bathroom making sure that there's no treadswomen in there.
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: She's like here he called me, get your ass out
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: of Um. What Jimbo does on UK Versus the World
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: is high art and it honestly helped made me appreciate
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: what few like performance artists we have on this show.
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: Like I think willow Hill is kind of performance. I
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: think even like Sasha Willowers heartbreaking on this episode of
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: Drag Race. She was so good and then when she
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: was talking about her body breaking down, it was so sad.
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: That was the moment I want her to win me too,
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: because Cornbread getting eliminated. We need to talk about cornbread.
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: I was goop gooped. It was a good episode. It
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: was an exquisite episode of television in in large part
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: because of these twists and turns. These girls are selling
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: their souls and holes away to Satan slash rubaal that
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: that they are, that they are, and the same as
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: the case for International All Stars, which is what I'll
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: be calling UK versus the world. The most important takeaway
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: is that Pangina for the win. Mama Pangina is hot hot, Yeah.
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: But I guess like there's also like a weird aspect
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: of it, like you are the best of the best
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: in your country, like so good that we had you
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: host our show. But but even being that means you
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: are not on the level of the host in this
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: country's version of drag. But there is precedent for it
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: now because you know, when they put baby Zahara Bane
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: into the show, they were like, what the fuss she
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: already won? You know what I mean? Like or I
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: think they've done a version of this before, like where
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: it's like a winner and a host. I mean, I
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: guess like didn't Brooklyn Heights came back as one of
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: the lip sync assassins. She was the host of Canada's
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: Drag Race, but she was originally a contestant, So I
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: don't know. It's just it's just interesting. It's a little
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: like it's a little colonialist, which considering it's UK versus
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: the world, like yikes, yikes. So so what you're saying
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: is that this show, this show is about imperialism. It
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: is imperials, yes, the imperialism of drag So fifty Shades
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: of Gray. This is a very true example of the
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: premise of this podcast because I had to literally force
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: Frand to watch this with me. Actually kick um, I will.
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: I want to set the intention and like I want
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: the virgins to understand the context of fifty Shades of Gray.
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: I un ironically and very earnestly and passionately and spiritually
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: love this movie. I think I love this series of films.
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: I believe you have said on this podcast that is
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: they're the best. They're the best films ever made, all
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: three of them, not just the first, As that being said,
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: I have never read the books. Uh. The only time
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: I did ever read a section of the Fifty Shades
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: of Gray novel was um over someone's shoulder on a
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: plane once because they were squirming in their seat next
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: to me while reading something and I wanted to see
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: what it was, and it was Fifty Shades of Gray.
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: The only time I've ever heard a passage of this
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: book was when it was read by Gilbert Godfried for
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: something I can't remember who, Gilbert Godfrey. It was the
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: fun Is he alive? Did he diet? But it was,
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: I will say, extremely funny. It was very well done. Um.
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: But in a way I have read Fifty Shades of
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: Gray because I've read Twilight, right of course, so give
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: us the context here, Where where does the franchise come from? Well,
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: fifty Shades of Gray. If you've never read the books
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: were seen the movies is three stories about Anastasia Steel,
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: the most unrealistic name of a character ever in history,
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: who is a sort of mousy college student who meets
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: a kinky billionaire and and gets involved in a sort
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: of reluctant b D s M relationship with him, and
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: the series is about her wanting him to stop being
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: kinky and be in like a normal relationship with her,
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: and him wanting to like hit her and take out
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: his mommy issues on her. That is the basic premise
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: of all three movies. I I want to get into it,
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: but I just have to tell you where I'm coming
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: from Rose, which is obviously I haven't read the books,
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: but I was working at Random House in the wake
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: of fifty Shades Mania. I worked as a studio assistant,
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: and I have some real beef with this book franchise
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: because the year I started to work there was the
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: year immediately after every employee at Random House got a
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: five thousand dollar Christmas bonus. Every single employee, a company
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: of thousands of people, every employee got a five thousand
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: dollar bonus because of fifty Shades money. Isn't that crazy?
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: Like the CEO was like, we made so much money
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: that every employee gets you get a call? Are you
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: get a car? I was just anyways, I was furious,
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: which is very interesting to think about because we have
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: to set fifty Shades of Gray in context, because fifty
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: Shades of Gray is fan fiction. We talked about this
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: briefly in our Twilight episode with Peyton Dicks, which you
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: should definitely go listen to if you haven't. Um. Fifty
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: Shades of Gray was originally published as a Twilight fan
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: fiction called Master of the Universe. It was written, it
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: was written. It was written under the pen name wait
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: for it, Snow Queen's Ice Dragon. Snow Queen's Ice Dragon.
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: I hate that, but also, yeah, that is kind of
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: a serve of a fan fiction screen name. So this
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: was written as a Twilight fan fiction in which Edward
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: was just this kinky billionaire. Bella was like basically just Bella.
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: One of the biggest complaints with Twilight is how puritanical
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: it is. And you know, the main tension of the
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: CEA is that, as we talked about with Peyton, Bella
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: wants to fuck Edward, and Edward won't fuck Bella because
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: he's a vampire and his superpowered dick would like cave
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: in her skull if she gave him head. It is
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: the sole engine of the screenplay pretty much, and so
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: like fifty Shades takes that and flips it's on its head,
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: which is that, you know, Christian Gray or Edward Cullen
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: in the fan fiction is very willing to fuck Anastasia
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: or Bella, but won't give her the emotional intimacy she
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: wants because he has this, you know, like tortured past.
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: And there are a lot of kind of characteristic mirrorings
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: between the two which we'll get into. It's the they're
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: exactly the same, like all of the characters are are
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: like the character the basic like tenants of their personalities
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: are completely unchanged. Right, Except the tension of Fifty Shades
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: is that Christian Gray is kind of inducting her into
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: bedous m I was going to say culture, but it's
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: not really bad and culture, which we'll talk about, and
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: in Twilight, it's more like Edward kind of being like,
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: these are my vamp this is my vampire culture. You're
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: not allowed to be in it. It's a little it's
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: a slightly different kind of tension. Yeah, So I want
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: to kind of walk us through the history of of
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: the publication of Master of the Universe and how it
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: became the book and movie franchise we know today. Let
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: me just buckle in. So when Snow Queen's Ice Dragon,
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: we have to see the full name every So when E. L. James,
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: the artists formerly known as Snow Queen's Ice Dragon again
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: publishing Master of the Universe. UM, she did something that
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: like it doesn't really happen a lot in fan fiction,
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: or at least like as someone who has read fan
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: of fiction like my entire adult and adolescent life and
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: still does. UM. She wrote that when she was published
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: in this story, it was like in real time and
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: she had a real like relationship with her audience and
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: in her author's notes when she was publishing the story,
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: like each new chapter she would ask people for like
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: suggestions on on plot points that they wanted to see,
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: and like she would get you know, feedback from them
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: on where they wanted the story to go. So this
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: really was a like community exercise, which is why I
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: think there is a lingering sour taste for people who
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: were in the Twilight community, which I UM. I was
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: listening to a podcast that's come out recently. It's called
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: The Big Hit Show, and it's about um, you know,
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: like huge cultural moments. I'm like, how they become that
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: big very brave of you to listen to. What is
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: your first podcast ever? I thought of you, I'm going
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: to ignore that the first season is all about Twilight. UM.
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: And they did do an episode, like specifically about fan fiction.
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: And there were a lot of people who were in
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: the Twilight Phantom at the time that this is being
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: published who have a lot of like sore feelings about
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: it because what E. L. James did is this trope
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: within fan fiction um that's referred to as filing off
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: the serial numbers. And it's basically like, when you write
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: a fan fiction it becomes really successful, you think, oh,
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: this has potential to actually be a book that I
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: can capitalize on, because the thing about fan fiction is
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: that it's free. You can't make money off of it. Um.
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: It's a it's a it's an in doubt, it's like
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: something that people do, like purely for the enjoyment of writing,
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: of like you know, being in fandom, of like loving
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: a piece of art that so much that you want
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: to continue playing in the world. And so when someone
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: sees like commercial viability for their fan fiction, they pull
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: to publish and then do this thing called filing off
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: the serial numbers, which is like, you know what el
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: James did. She pulled her story from wherever what lived Online,
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: did like a searching and replace with all of the names,
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: and you know, published it as fifty Shades of Gray
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: what And it was originally actually self published of course,
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: like on like what on Amazon or something like that.
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: It was published as an e book and a print
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: on demand paperback, and then it became so successful because
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: of like a viral marketing campaign that it was eventually
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: published by Vintage Books and became the best seller we
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: know today, right, And so I mean you and I
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: watched the movie together before we get into that. I
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: think you know, there was, as we all remember, a
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: complete inability to avoid the conversation of hippie shades. Right.
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: It was such a it was such a joke, like
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: it was very very much fodder for late night you
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: know um hosts to put to poke fun it. And
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: I think, like it's it's very similar to this same
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: criticism that surrounded Twilight when Twilight first came out, which
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: was people making fun of young women for wanting to
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: read a romantic saga, especially something that was horny. But yeah,
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: but like Twilight wasn't as obviously horny, of course, And
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: I think it's it's different. It's different versions of hating
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: women for the things that they're interested in. Twilight was
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: hating young women for wanting to participate in romantic fantasy,
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: and fifty Shades of Gray was hating women for wanting
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: to read something like that made them horny. Period. That
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: is such a good distinction because I remember like the
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: S and L jokes about like, you know, women in
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: their forties and fifties like reading and like you know,
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: masturbating on a corner of a washing machine or whatever.
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean. But like the you know,
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: the person the people having the last laugh with this
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: are Stephanie Meyern L James because these things that you know,
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: culturally people wanted to make fun of, which are women,
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: and their interests are extremely profitable, you know. Like when
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: Twilight was released, they thought it was going to be
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: a flop, and it's one of the Yeah, it's one
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: of the biggest movie franchises ever. It made like seventy
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: million dollars it's opening weekend. I'm shocked that they thought
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: it was going to be a flop. But what's interesting also,
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: I mean, well, not to poke fun in the exact
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: same way we're trying to like criticize, but I will
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: say I do remember very viscerally the images circulating online
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: by the time the movie franchise came out of ushers
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: in movie theaters finding many times soiled cucumbers. Um, do
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: you remember that? No, it's not real or is that
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: just like a Twitter thing? Basically, there are a series
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: of images online of ushers and theaters being like I
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: found a like a literal like soiled. I don't I
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: don't believe that. I think people were faking. You get
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: the image. It looks pretty compelling. I don't know, but
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: I'm not. But my point is not till I mean,
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: I think the hoax, that's just giving hoax. That's just
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: like funny, it's fun to make fun of. But it
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: is exactly in line with what you're saying. Is that
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: the overall kind of like punchline of at least fifty shades.
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: But I guess in tandem with Twilight is kind of
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: like women wanting things. You know, Yeah, but when there's
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: no one is an easier target than women and the
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: things that they're interested in. Well, please don't masturbate in
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: movie theaters. Yes, even though like women and our interests,
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: we drive pop culture every time, there's a reason why,
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: Like most fan fiction is written by women, and like
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: a lot of it is by queer women. I mean,
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: anyone who listens to this podcast knows that I love
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: fan fiction. I am a scholar of fan fiction. But
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: I never I never read Fifty Shades of Gray when
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: they were books. I was really never interested, even though
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: I knew the backstory. And I think by that point
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: I had kind of moved on from my Twilight interest
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: because I was very interested, or I was. I was
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: like interested in the books when they came out, and
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: I was bored one summer and read them all and
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: it happened to be the summer before the movies came out,
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: so I like got on the train of being really
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: into them. But then by the time the last Twilight
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: movies came out, I was like my interest had waned
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: the Fifty Shades of Gray came out, I like saw
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: the book phenomenon kind of from a distance, like didn't
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: really participate in it. And then the movies came out,
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: and did you see them? I did. I A friend
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: of mine had gone to Connecticut to do a writing
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: retreat and like some house that his like family owned,
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: and I went out there for a couple of days
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: and it was in this very podunc town and there
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: was nothing for us to do. So we decided to
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: go see Fifty Shades of Gray one night because it
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: was the only thing playing at the movie theater and
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: I was obsessed. You were radicalized. I was radicalized as
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: a fifty Shades of Gray stand and I have never
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: looked back. And um, you know, like my my good
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: friend Ryan and I like we saw that the second
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: TOO movie together and like both ironically and un ironically
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: enjoyed them. Uh, you and I watched the first movie together. Um,
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: so I'll reserve my thoughts for now, but what was
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: your reaction when you saw it for the first time?
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: You said you were radicalized? But like what we're kind
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: of the do you remember anything that you latched onto,
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: whether it was like an image or something about Dakota
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: or something about how it's framed. I think it was.
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: It does a lot of the things that I think
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: Twilight did really well in adapting the books, which is
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: makes them cooler than the source material. So like Twilight
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: did that really well with the soundtrack, and fift Shades
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: of Great has great soundtrack. It's like the soundtrack is
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: so good. Fance slow mix. Well, that was such a
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: moment when the trailer came out and it was the
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: updated version of Crazy and Loves It's sublime is such
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: a god It's and It's film did not deserve the
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: effect within the movie. No, it's not. Well, we'll talk
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: about it anyways. I I honestly cannot pinpoint what I
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: love about the movies so much. I really like them.
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: I mean, I I can acknowledge that, like the story
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: has a lot of flaws the same way that Twilight does.
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: And that's what I like about it is like it's
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: melodrama treated very seriously, but also like fifty shades of
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: great kind of like the Twilight movies, like does let
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: itself like not take itself too seriously and does kind
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: of like wink a little bit at like how ridiculous
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: what's happening is? Does it wink? Think? Do you think
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: the film is aware of itself? I feel I do?
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: You know what's funny is when I was watching, I
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: feel like Dakota is aware of what's going on. I
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: think Dakoda. But I think, is that is that colored
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: by like you knowing the Dakota Johnson of Tonight? That's
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: a really fair that's a really fair point, perhaps, And
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: I honestly think whoever is listening at home might have
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: an answer to that too. I think based on her performance,
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: I thought Dakota gave something that was a little more
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: cartoony than what Jamie Dornan and the rest of the
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: cast was doing. Like, I think that Dakota fed into
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: some physical comedy that to me, even though it wasn't
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: She obviously didn't make the movie camp or anything, you know,
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: but she did play an earnest character she was acting. Yeah,
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: I mean she's she feels pretty grounded in reality to me,
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: because there's a lot of really insane shit happening around her,
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: and she does kind of acknowledge that. Like when Christian
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: is trying to you know, bully her into becoming his submissive,
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: she says to him many times like this is crazy.
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: She's what you're asking of me is insane. Yeah, she
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: sometimes challenges him or sometimes he will say things that
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: you think would be very shocking and she is like, um,
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: very pointedly unfazed by it. Yes, but as in Twilight
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: with with Bella and Edwards, like she's just so in
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: love with him that she stays in this like you know,
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: controlling relationship. When we watched the movie together, I remember
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: you saying at some point along our conversations about the
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: film that, um, you feel like Anna, Anna Anna, that
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: Anna has more agency than Bella. If we were to
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: kind of compare and contrast these two entities a little bit,
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: because I had no idea that Bella worked at a
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: hardware store. Um, but Anna also works at a hardware store.
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: There are a lot of um parallels, you know, between
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: these two films, but the actual like female lead, I guess,
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: the the woman in the in the center of the
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: films are very different. Yeah, well Bella. You know, outside
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: of a few moments, Bella really goes along with what
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: Edward wants her to do. She finds out he's a vampire,
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: and she's like, okay, I'm going to become a vampire too.
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: I want to be with you forever. He leaves her
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: a new moon and she just completely shuts down until
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: another man enters her life and like inspires her to
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: like build her confidence, which not to be a snob
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: is like bad writing, because like the one thing you
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: need a character to do is to like make decisions
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: for themselves instead of just like letting things happen to them.
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: But I guess also that is kind of I guess
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: the charm of something like Twilight, and then it's comics.
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: She's comically disempowered. Yeah, and in fifty Shades like Yes,
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: Anastasia is so in love with Christian that she allows
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: a lot of his bad behavior, but she also at
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: several moments is like I'm not doing this, um, but
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: like she eventually is talked back into it, usually by him,
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: like breaking into her home, like the one scene in
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: the movie where she has broken up with him and
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: she comes home and he's like standing there with wine. Yeah,
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: and you're like, what the and she never remarks upon
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: the fact that he's broken into her home, and you know, Okay,
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: So I, as I, as the virgins have probably picked
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: up on, didn't love the movie. I think that one
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: of the things that I struggled with. And I don't like,
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: you know, I don't like yuck in people's yum. I'm
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: not putting you on the stand and making you like
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: defend this movie or good luck that. Yeah. Yeah, But
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: I feel like I have a really hard time with
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: movies that come out in this day and age where
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: all the entire engine and the entire stakes are like
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: built around like a white guy's dick, you know what
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: I mean, Like the to me, there is there's nothing
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: in any of the character character's motivations outside of the
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: fact that, like, you know, Jamie Dornan can really lay
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: the pipe. You know, that's kind of like what's going
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: on in this film, and that I as much as
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: I love comedies where the whole premise is like I
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: want to fuck, you know, thinking about something like fleabag
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: or like never have I ever or like something like that,
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: I feel like there is like so much inside of there.
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: There's not There's not a ton explored actually in the
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: sex itself of the film, which is like kind of
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: the beating heart of what the franchise. Well. Yeah, and
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: it's also like this universe that I personally can't empathize with,
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: in which the most important thing in life is romantic love. Yeah,
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: you know, these these two women, Bela Swan and Anastasia
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: Steele put their love of these awful men before anything else,
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: and that is that is the only thing in their
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: life that that matters is the men they're in love with.
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: Like if the Begdel Test had like a scoring system,
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: these would be like failing greats. Like they are like
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: groundbreaking lee, like uncomplicated, like like female leads. I think
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: another thing that really shook me. I don't know why
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: it shocked me, honestly, it's kind of stupid, but like
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: I said to you when you were watching, I was like,
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: I knew, I've always known that this was a fan
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: fiction of Twilight, but there really is like no frills,
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: no decorations, like it is fun fixition, like lifted from
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: the blog onto this TV screen. And I think that
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: that is why I was kind of sad, is that
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: I kind of thought maybe I was gonna like the
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: movie a lot because it would be one of those,
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: you know, so it's good kind of moments, and it
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: obviously was that in a lot of different ways. But
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: I think I was kind of um taken aback by
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: what I felt was a complete failure of the imagination
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: to capture what is supposed to be a really tumultuous,
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: sexy affair, you know what I mean. And I use
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: the word affair like lover's affair, not like a fidelity.
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: So you think that they're boring, I think that it's
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: boring as fuck. And you said yourself that every single
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: sex scene in all movies are really that vanilla because
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: all the sex, every single for those of you that
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: haven't watched, every single sex scene is basically the same
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: thing that is restrained for like three seconds, for like
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: three seconds, and then and then he does a little
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: and then he just starts sucking her, yeah, and then
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: they just have normal like there for the first thing
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: they have sex is in Missionary what Well, that's because
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: she's that's because she's a virgin also, you know, like
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: just just like just like Twilight, you know, fifty Shades
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: has a big preoccupation with virginity. Of course it does,
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: and that like kind of pure heroinism is like so
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: ikey to me, and I think, honestly, the other thing
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: that really gets me, what I was talking about earlier,
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: is like the engine the film is like unfortunately and
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: you and I disagree on this. Jamie Dornan looks like
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: a fucking like he's in a fucking like target catalog.
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: Like I think he's so nondescript. He's not, He's on
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: He's completely conventionally attractive. He is a catalog model. I
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: do not see anything distinct about him in his body
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: or in his face, and so I think that was
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: another thing It's like I was like, wait, this is
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: the guy. Well, you know, it was originally supposed to
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: be um Charlie Hoonan, who like is a little bit
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: more rough around the edges than Jamie Dornan, but he
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: backed out of the last minute because he, like what,
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: didn't want the level of fame that he knew he
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: was going to get from being in these movies. I
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: honestly don't know if Jamie Dornan has that level of fame, Like, yeah,
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: he was he not known before this really or yeah,
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: he he had been like on a couple of TV
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: things and like since this movie, Yeah, he's in that
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: big like black and white Oscar movie right now, Belfast,
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: and like he's been in a couple of other things.
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: He was in Barbon Star Um, which was you know, fun.
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: He has he he did not reach Robert Pattinson levels
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: of fame, and he certainly isn't as famous as as
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: Dakota Johnson, right And obviously you know, well that's what
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: I was going to say, is that like Robert Pattinson is,
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: even though you know, not a great actor in the
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: Tylight movies, is like much more compelling. You disagree, you
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: disagree on dangerous grounds whatever. Um he is. So he's
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: like dark and stormy and mysterious. He sells us on
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: this kind of supernatural dark horse trope, UM Cowboy from
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: Nowhere kind of thing that's going on. Um. But to me,
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: it's like if I were to like recast Jamie Dornan,
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: because obviously Dakota is perfect in the movie. If I
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: were to recast Jamie, I think I would want someone
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: like a like Adam Driver or Alexander's Scars Art, someone
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: that we get into like that. It's funny that a
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: hot person. It's funny that you bring up Adam Driver
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: because Adam Driver is the focus of another filing off
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: the serial Numbers fan fiction turned successful novel. UM. So
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: there's this romance novel that was huge, I mean still is.
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: But like last year I think is when the Christendo
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: peaked on book talk. It's called The Love Hypothesis and
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: it's a Star Wars rayl fan fiction. Um. Ray Low
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: is Kylo Wren and ray who are you know, the
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: two leads of the newer Star Wars movies And there's
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: like a big shipping community about them and lots of
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: fan fiction. And this romance novel was originally written as
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: a fan fiction about them, and the author did the
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: same thing, finding off the serial numbers, changing their names,
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: and it's now like a hugely successful um romance novel
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: had no idea and I did read it, wait you
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: did it? Was you know, it was a nice way
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: to spend a day. I literally read it in like,
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: you know, forty eight hours. I think that that said.
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: What I'm trying to get at is I was, personally
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: before watching a movie very excited about what can be
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: explored in a power dynamic that I don't want to
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: say blurs the line of consent. But in B D,
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: S M and kink culture, which is not at all,
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: you know, exemplified in this movie, there are much more
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: nuanced approaches to how they talk about consent, because lack
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: of consent can be someone's kink, you know what I mean,
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: like someone having a kind of being overpowered. Fantasy is
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: something that is imbuted and always talked about intracommunally in
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: B D, S M and kink stuff, and so I thought,
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: you know, there would have been some of that explored,
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: which I think is maybe explored in the books, but
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: not at all in the movie. I don't I don't
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: think it is, but it also would have been interesting,
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: like if it was like um, if the power dynamic
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: was also like age related, like if it was more
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: of like a daddy, like a like a Willem Dafoe,
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: or like a it's all about capitalism, you know, it's
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: like he has more money than her. You know, you
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: did only watch the first movie, So I think it
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: would be fun if I if I told you about
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: what happens in the rest of the topline. For me,
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: I've literally never heard this before. Okay, well, first, before
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: I say this, we do have to talk about the
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: fact that Rita or is in these films. She has
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: a She has a very brief cameo in the first film.
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: She she plays christians sister Mia, who is Alice from Twilight,
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: And we have to say when Rosa is very brief,
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: she means like one to two lines. She also has
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: a really like horrible she's wearing a really horrible wig.
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: And also her introduction is inconsequential to anything in the movie.
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: The only reason she's in that movie is to set
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: up the next two movies. Yes, so you know the
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: first film ends with with Anastasia leaving Christian after she
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: has asked him to show her how bad he wants
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: to hurt her, and he like spanks her six times
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: and he's like by um. So in the second movie
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: like she very they very quickly get back together, like
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: almost no time at all, um, but she's being stalked
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: by one of his old submissives, um who is like
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: who is still obsessed with him. You also find out
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: in the second movie, um more about his tragic backstory.
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: So he well in the first movie like I think
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: you will remember that he said that he is a
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: crack baby. Basically, oh my god, he had an abusive
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: mother who died when he was little. And you find
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: out in the second movie that all of the women
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: who he likes to dominate look like his mom. So
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: so like he just has a really bad mobby issue.
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: Dakota Johnson does kind of look like a young mom. Um.
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: You also in the second movie meet the older woman
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: who inducted him into b d S M what so
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: Kim Basinger plays Mrs Robinson who love that who you know,
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: like basically was a pedophile and um made Christian her
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: submissive when he was a teenager. And it's called Mrs
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: Robinson to call back to the graduate um um. So
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: in the second movie, Anastasia meets her and the wait
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: in that relationship was he the submissive whoa okay okay?
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: And so Anastasia meets her and like hates her. Also,
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: Christian asks Anastasia to marry him in the second movie
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: because it's Twilight, and I also think the second movie
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: is when he gets into a helicopter crash what but
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: but survives um also um Anastasia has started working at
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: a publishing house and her boss is super predatory and
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: wants to suck her and eventually gets fired because he
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: tries to assault her. Does Jamie Dornan like kill the
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: boss or something? No, But it continues on into the
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: third movie because in the third movie you find out
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: that the boss was so Christian was in you know,
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: like the was in the system, is like in foster
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: care and was adopted by his rich parents, the Grays,
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: And I guess it turns out that the boss was
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: like another possible kid they were going to adopt, and
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: like feels that he should have gotten the life that
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: Christian got and so he is like stalking Anastasia and
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: like trying to break into their home and then this
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: is why it's important to mention Rita Aura. In the
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: third movie, Rita or gets kidnapped by the boss does not,
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: and Dakota Johnson has to by the by the boss
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: um and then Dakota Johnson has to like navigate this
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: hostage crisis and that's a perfect role for Yeah, And
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: she like goes in, like she makes Christian think that
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: she's leaving him and goes in withdraws all this money
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: from their account so that she because they've gotten married
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: at this point, so she can save the sister. And
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: then like she's oh and she's also pregnant. She gets
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: pregnant in the last movie, and she like kicks her
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: in the stomach, I think, and she thinks she's going
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: to lose the baby. Also also very much like very
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: much like in Breaking Dawn, Christian when he finds out
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: Anastasia is pregnant, is really against it, um like because
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: you know, in in Breaking Dawn, Twilight doesn't want Bella
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: to have the baby because he thinks it's going to
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: kill her. Christian doesn't want Anna State should to have
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: the baby because like he wants her to himself. But
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: then you know, like after she gets kicked during a
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: hostage crisis. He's like, oh, I want the baby. Um,
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: your recounting of the trilogy is honestly more interesting than
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: my entire experience of watching the film. Okay, but so
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: the best part of the well, no, there's like a
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: lot of great I would never says um. So the
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: end of the final movie a childlike glee and wonder
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: on roses eyes. Right now. The end of the final
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: movie is, um, you know, like a Christian has kind
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: of like given up, you know, being a dom and
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: you know, they think they've settled into this like normal life.
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: And then when he comes home and um, Anastasia has
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: like put the jenes that he always used to fuck
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: her and out on the bed. What kind of genes
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: they're just they're just they're just jeans, They're they're kind
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: of like a you know, they've got like a like
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: like artful fading, you know, I would say their bootcut.
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: And and then she and then she's waiting in the
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: Red Room of Pain, which is what his playroom is called,
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: like canonically is called the Red Room of Pain. Hate that,
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: and she has now like decided she wants them to
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: be kinky again. And he says to her that she's
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: topping from the bottom, and that's how the movie, that's
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: how the franchise ends. No, it does. Yeah, you're kidding. Honestly,
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: the thing one of my biggest well, okay, something that
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: stuck out to me. I think it's so funny that
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: she starts to work at a publishing house. When we
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: were watching the movie. You pointed out to me that
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: Bella and Anna share the same three personality traits that
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: they have, which is they are burnett, they are awkward,
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: and they like to read clumsy clumsy right now different, different, different,
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: so they both play it. The main the main difference
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: is that Anastasia has bangs, right, That's that's actually huge huge.
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: She also is like very performatively not into the fact
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: that her boyfriend is a billionaire, and every time he
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: tries to buy her something, she's like, oh, no, I
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: don't want this, which is like, are you kidding? If
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: I if I felt if a billionaire fell into my
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: lap in a workplace environment, the way I would ride
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: and milk that man for all of his works, literally
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: literally ride and milk. He bought he buys her car
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: in the first film, and she gets like, oh, my god,
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: that was so weird too much. I can't take it.
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: You have to take it back. I would text him
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: and be like, actually, um, I asked for a jeep,
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: I asked for a tesla. Things Also, like a car
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: is not the kind of thing you can send back. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: I guess not. But if you're really wealthy, I'm sure
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: they are really easy ways to kind of exchange it.
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: You can kind of do whatever you want when you're wealthy, apparently,
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: but honestly, his him being a billionaire, obviously, it's it's
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: very good for fan fiction, it's very sensationalistic. Um, and
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: it's good for the movies because they can do things
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: like go like fly in a helicopter, like you know,
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: he can like come surprise her on her trip with
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: her mom. Right, oh yeah, I remember, yeah yeah, And
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: I understand narratively what it does. But I think that
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: it just, especially now, makes him such an ugly character.
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: I think again, when I when I said, like, I
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: hate that the engine of the film is around, like
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: you know, the fact that he's really great at sex,
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: It's like I wish he had at least one more
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: redeeming quality, like he I could actually buy into the
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: fact that she's only here because he's amazing in the sack.
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: If the sex scenes were actually good, Um, but they
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: were just kind of you know, very sensual and like
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: they sell it. I think it's performed well, but the
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: sex is like so lukewarm. I know, honestly, the movies
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: would be so much more interesting to me if she
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: was like a gold digger and just wanted him for
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: his money, Like, then I could understand where she's coming from.
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: I would get her motivation. And I even as I
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: say this, it sounds like so ester, but there has
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: you trying to like woke ify the movie. But no, no,
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: but she has to be set up to be like
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: not only um, you know, physically pure, but morally pure.
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: She has to she has to not want the money
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: for him to be attractive to her the same way
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: that like, even though he talks all this game about
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: wanting her to be sexually experienced, when he finds out
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: that she's a virgin, he like loses his mind and
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: thinks it's the hottest thing ever, right, And which is
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: I mean, which is so like which I don't understand
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: it all? Like I don't understand virginity being attractive. Okay, wait,
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: let's talk about that very quickly before we get into
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: the sex scenes, because this is like a virgin um
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: and you are listening are the virgins, And we have
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: to say we on this podcast, like the construct of
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: virginity is like a concept that is like so archaic
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: and bizarre and weird and like puritanical. And I think
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: that Twilight and fifty Shades and things like them exemplify
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: what we as a culture kind of believe around what
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: it means to have had or not have had sex.
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: And I think coming from where I'm at, it's like,
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: I like, growing up, there is just a myriad of
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: things that you know, my family would think are like
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: morally you know, wrong, But I could watch some things
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: on TV so long as they weren't sex, Like having
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: sex before marriage was like v b all end all
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: of like things that you absolutely like that is the
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: worst possible thing you can do, and like, culturally we
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: subscribe to it. And it's so funny that these like
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: women are so uncomplicated in their kind of puritanism that
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: they feel like there are a construct of like the
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: male imagination, when in fact they're both written by women. Um,
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: which is kind of cookie. I think the reason I
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: like kind of point that out is like to maybe
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: get into the sex scenes of it all, Like this
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: movie and it's a relationship to like b D s
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: M and kink is like virtually non exist. There is
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: no relationship this is at all, And like I'm not
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: I'm not a kinky person. I think it's like it's
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: honestly just like two much work for me, Like kink
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: is a whole lifestyle that you have to like. Well,
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: I mean, it depends on your level, but like when
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: you're as kinky as Christian Gray is being set up
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: to be, like it's like a hobby, you have to
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: invest a lot in it. I just don't have that
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: kind of energy or or attention span. And I am
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: also like maybe not a member I'm kinky, but I'm
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: not like a member of like the b D s
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: M community that would speak. However, that being said, like
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: even knowing very little about actual B D s M,
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: I am well aware that this is not any kind
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: of real depiction of what rose. I think you're selling
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: yourself short because even though as we said, we're not
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: like in that community, you and I, you know, used
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: to be sex writers. We used to be like people
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: that worked in LGBTQ media, Like we actually do know
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: a lot on this topic, and a lot of our
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: friends are in this community. So I feel like, you know,
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: I was able to really quickly see that there's just
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: no absolutely no relation to what this woman's in like
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: kind of fantasy of b d S M would be
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: because it is so like it just feels like it's
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: written by a fourth grader, yeah, when in fact it
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: was written by a fifth year old woman. And you know,
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: a lot of the backlash around this movie that wasn't
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: centered on like oh ha ha look at women being
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: horny and how stupid that is, like ha ha um
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: was from people who are actually in into b d S.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: I'm saying this is not a realistic depiction of of
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: us at all. It's also a movie about contract negotiations,
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: because like, that's the whole plot of the first movie,
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: is him trying to get her to sign paperwork. It
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: is the best scene in the movie. It's a really
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: good scene with yes. So there is a scene in
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: which Anastasia has said that she wants to talk about
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: the contract to become Christians submiths sibum, but she has
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: some notes on the contract itself, so she asked for
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: a meeting at his At his office, she shows up
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: in this like very sexy dress and they have a
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: meeting in a boardroom in which she tells him like
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: she doesn't want to do anal or vaginal fisting. She
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: goes to the contract line by line, which is honestly hot.
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: It's a very amazing scene. But I thought it was
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: I was floored that she wouldn't do anal. I thought
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: that was so lame, Like come on, like that's another
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: It's like, come on, just like do anal, Like try
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: some blood play, like just you know, get into it.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: I've never done blood play, not not on purpose. One
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: time I was having sex with someone and like a,
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: I don't know, we were a little too rough and
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: there was like a little cut on Like was it, oh,
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: yeah it was. There was a cot on my dick,
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: and after on your dick, it was like a very
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: small sliver it like it like her a little bit,
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: but I didn't really notice. Is very small. And after
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: we were like kind of done, his his stomach was
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: like covered in blood. He's like, where did this blood
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: come from? Um? Anyways, No, I have never engaged in
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: blood play. But I just like like the kind of
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: key iterations of what the author slash filmmaker think is
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: kank is essentially handcuffs, Uh, a whip, a writing crop.
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: I okay, I love a writing so I used to
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: one that's very Oh really, there's this, but it was
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: like only really to like I used to like bring
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: it to parties when I was a club kid. There's
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: this that's hot. That's a good look as well. Um,
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: I there's this Ermes writing crop that I've been eyeing forever.
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: It's vintage. Um it's but it's like think it's like six.
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: You don't need a writing crop. But anyways, um, a
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 1: writing crop, a whip, handcuffs. These are things that an
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: ice cube he does ice play. Oh yeah, ice play.
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: Like I'm not trying to be a total bitch about it,
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: but it's just like you are. These are things that
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: at um, what you want is not necessarily is not cank.
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: In B D s M culture, these are things that
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: heterosexual couples in their forties and fifties introduced to their
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: relationships to quote unquote spice things up. Like it's it's
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: not b D s M. It's just not it's like
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 1: it's power play yeah yeah, which is yeah yeah. There
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: are little things here and there where it's like this
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: could be you know maybe, but it's just all of
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: it together just doesn't really work. And then I also
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: feel like when like you know, the first kind of
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: books came out, the b D s M culture was
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 1: also responding to what is a completely unhealthy, slash inaccurate
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: portrayal of consent in b D s M relationships because
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: Anna's I think frequently saying she she frequently does things
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: for Christian that she's not comfortable with because she's either
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: too shy to speak her mind, or because she's afraid
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: of losing Christian, or because you know, she just like it,
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: just doesn't have enough agency, even though she has more
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: as to see than Bella. But you know that's not
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: how b D s M has And when you do
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: it the right way quote unquote has very you know,
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: hard and fast kind of rules of communication and boundaries.
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: And I have found that my friends in b D
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: s M culture have some of the healthiest relationships and
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: or sex lives because they have to over communicate where
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: those lines are where a lot of times people not
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: in b D s M are too, just as the
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: as portrayed in fifty Shades are kind of too scared
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: to talk about those things because sex is embarrassing. Yeah,
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: there's only there's only a passing mention of like safe words.
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: They talk about it during the contract negotiation scene, like which,
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: like do they even really do safe words anymore? Like
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 1: I mean, I I will say, like I have to
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: admit that my only knowledge of b D s M
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: comes from fan fiction because because because it is a
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: true it is really a trope in in fan fiction.
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: And I have no idea if the understanding I have
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: of b D s M is even true to life,
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: and that it is like being written about through the
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: lens of someone's own experience, or if it's literally just
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: like teenagers making up what they think b D s
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: M is, or like women playing out their fantasies through
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: these characters, Like I have no idea if it's if
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: it's real or not, because it's not something that like
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: I really engage in in my actual sexual life. So
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: it could be that these ideas I have of what
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: b D s M actually are could be totally fake.
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: I would be really curious to see what would happen
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: if someone who was maybe more of a b D
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: s M communities mind would do with this film, like
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: would would like um anified Christian Gray on like Field
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: or something like you know for the I don't know
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: if anybody if those listening, No, but there's like a
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: dating app that's like so busted. The UX is so bad.
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: Well there, I mean, we do have to we do
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: have to say there's a difference between kink and b
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: D s M. Yeah, obviously, yeah, yeah, right, kink is
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: maybe a bigger umbrella over a bunch of like sub umbrellas.
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: And because I think they're there are plenty of people
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: who are into kink who don't want b D s M.
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: I don't want, who don't want power or pain to
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: be part of that sexual experience. Right. Um, I was
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: gonna ask, have you ever have you ever like looked
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 1: at Field or tried fields or like I've been on
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: Field before, Like I mean I haven't had an account,
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: but I've been on the website. It's it is. I mean,
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: apparently it's supposed to be for people that are maybe kinky,
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: but also maybe people that are polly and looking for
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: thirds question mark. The UX is so busted. And what
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: is really weird about it is like pretty much everyone
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: I've had too and I don't use the app, but
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: like when I did try it, everyone I swiped on
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: was just looked like some normy heterosexual couple, and I
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: was like, where like the queer people on this? Well,
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: that's very that's very fifty Shades because you know, like I,
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: it's it's funny to me that I like these movies
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: so much when usually the reason that I am drawn
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: to something like this is because I can catch a
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: whiff of queerness, whether it's through like subtext or like
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 1: shipping some characters together or whatever. But Fifty Shades of
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: Gray is so aggressively hetero, like there's no there's truly
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: nothing gay about it except in the first movie when
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: um Anastasia asked Christian if he's gay, right, and I
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: think there's for some reason, that's the last time homosexuality
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 1: is ever acknowledged. And slightly back to the Rita or
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: of it all. You warned me about Rita Aura. You
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: did not warn me about Marsha Gay Harden. But I
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: wanted it to be a surprise, not just Marsha Guy Harden,
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: but Marsha gay harden also as a character that has
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: literally no bearing on the plot of the first film
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: at all, and I think has like one or two
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: lines question mark she does. She is important later because,
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: as I said, um, christians old lover is friends with
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: his mom, and in the third movie, I believe she
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: finds out about it and slaps her or like throws
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: a drink in her face, slaps his mom. No, no, no no,
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: Marcia gay harden Um throws a drink in combasing her
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 1: face because she finds out that she like preyed on
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: her son when he was a teenager. Oh my god.
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: Oh that is actually something that must be noted, is
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: that like, um, people that are into this are not
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 1: um should are not a product of like childhood abuse,
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Like there's a pathologizing of
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: Christian Gray. And yeah, Anastasia is very like preoccupied with
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 1: what the question why are you like this? Exactly? And
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: I don't even want to like defend Christian Gray. He's
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: a dick. He's a bad person, straight up, um, but
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: like he It's It's true, like throughout the whole like
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 1: kind of franchise, there is this kind of like hm hmm,
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 1: this guy is fucked up and like there's something wrong
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 1: with him, and and Anesthesia thinks she can fix him. Yeah,
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: it's just so, and she wants to know when they'll
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: be able to have a normal relationship. Yeah, I don't know.
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 1: It's just it's just it's not it's it doesn't work.
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: So I think it's safe to say you won't be
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: watching fifty Shades Darker and fifty Shades freed Man unless
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 1: you tied me up and uh forced me to watch.
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: I would only do it with your consent. Of course,
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: I most likely will be going home and watching them
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 1: immediately after we finished recording, because tis the season fifty Shades.
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: They are Valentine's Day movies. They are what I like
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: to watch this time of year, and I love them
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: so much period, And I hold stay for that. Thank you.
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: I really appreciate you holding space for me. I really
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 1: appreciate you gaping for me. No, not that. We will
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: be back next week with a discussion on Jagged Little
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 1: Pill the album slash. We kind of get into the
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: musical a little bit too, with none other than Charlene Incarnet,
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: renowned drag artist and friend of ours who has come
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: on a pod because she is honestly the expert on
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: all things Atlantis. Um, you can tell us what you
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: like about this week's episode. Did you watch the Shades? Yeah?
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: Are you? Are you? And Anna? Are you a Christian? Um?
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 1: Are you a Rita? Are? Do you like fan fiction?
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 1: What fan fiction would you like to see adopted into
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 1: a major film franchise next? I identify as a Marsha
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 1: of course. Um, you can tell us what to talk
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 1: about next, whether it's a show, a book, a cultural
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 1: phenomenon we want to hear from you. Call to confess
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 1: at three to three Pennance. That's read too three seven
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 1: two six to three. I'm your co host fran Toronto
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 1: and you can find me at Franz squish code wherever
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 1: you want on social media, I'm Rose Damn You. You
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 1: can find me at Rose Damn You on Instagram, Twitter
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 1: and TikTok. You can subscribe to Like a Virgin anywhere
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 1: you listen and leave us a rating on Spotify or
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 1: review on Apple Podcasts. Like a Virgin is an I
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 1: Heart radio production. Our producer is inter with support from
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 1: Lindsay Hoffman, Julian Weller, Jess Cranechitch and Nikki Etour Until
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 1: next week see you later. Virgins