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Why Bitcoin Is Having a Moment: CoinShares' Demirors · Bloomberg Intelligence

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney, along
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: with my co host of Bonnie Quinn. Every business day
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: we bring you interviews from CEO, market pros, and Bloomberg experts,
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: along with essential market moving news. Find the Bloomberg Markets
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: Podcast on Apple podcast or wherever you listen to podcasts,
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: and on Bloomberg dot com. Alright, let's take a look
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: at bitcoin for something just a little bit different. Why
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: not let's move to the digital currency space. We're looking
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: at thirty three eight hundred forty six today. It is
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: down about three tenths of one after a couple of
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: very down days in the last few days. Let's bring
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: in somebody who knows a lot about this. Meltham the
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: Mirrors is chief strategy officer from coin shares, Google's seven
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: hundred fifty million dollars in the digital space. Well to
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: thank you for joining. What do you make of the
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: flows into the likes of bitcoin over the last few
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: days and weeks and the amount of sort of new
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: vehicles that have cropped up, including Anthony scaramuci Is new
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: Bitcoin ETF. Yeah. Absolutely so great to be back on
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: the show, and I want to make a minor correction.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: We actually coin shares hit a record high as three
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: point nine billion in a u M, so it's quite
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: a step up from the seven hundred fifty million we
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: had about a year ago. And actually on the first
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: trading day of the year this year, we had a
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: new high where we saw over two hundred million dollars
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: of our change trader products traded in one single trading
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: session January four, big day. So I'll definitely say there's
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: a lot of interest in crypto ETPs and crypto vehicles.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: Just melt him. Let's let's carify exactly that you had
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: seven fifty million a year ago, you have what now?
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: And has it been due to flows or due to
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: the you know, the massive gains that we've seen in
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: the likes of bitcoin. Absolutely, so we have three point
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: nine billion in assets under management in our exchange traded
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: products and that is a result of two factors, as
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: you alluded to. One factor, obviously, is the price rise.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: That in addition, we've seen a tremendous amount of inflows
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: into our et p s as well as other structured products.
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: And again what we're seeing is a tremendous amount of
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: participation from not just crypto native asset managers like ourselves.
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: We are currently the second largest asset manager in the
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: world in our industry. But we're also seeing traditional asset managers,
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: hedge fund managers Anthony Scaramucci, one River in the UK
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: entering into this market and in significant size. We're talking
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: about multibillion dollar vehicles here. So new inflows combined with
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: the price rally has resulted in a tremendous amount of
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: market activity across the board. Talk to us about the
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: trading that we've seen melt him in bitcoin just specifically,
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: it's had just extraordinary rise up here. I'm just looking
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: at it. You know, back in March, when a lot
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: of risk assets were melting down, it was about five
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: thousand dollars in here. We are, you know, just under
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: thirty four thousand after peaking it over forty. Talked us
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: about what we've seen in the price of bitcoin, maybe
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  Speaker 1: even the recent volatility, uh bitcoin absolutely and the trading story.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: You know, we have a large trading desk at our firm.
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: We're trading about five to seven billion of notional volume
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: every month. What we've really seen last year around this time,
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: the majority of bitcoin trading volume was in the bitcoin
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: teather trade pair. Teather UM, as some of your listeners
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: might know, is a blockchain based digital dollar. So the
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  Speaker 1: majority of volume we saw was happening during Asia trading
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: hours in the Bitcoin teather trading pair. Over the last
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: twelve months and particularly in December and the start of
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: this year, what we've seen is an uptick in volume
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  Speaker 1: in the Bitcoin USD pair, which is now the most
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  Speaker 1: dominant pair, and in addition, a lot of trading activity
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: has shifted to US and UK market hours, So to us,
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  Speaker 1: that's one of the clear indications that volume is starting
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  Speaker 1: to shift. And then the last piece I'll add that's
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  Speaker 1: important to note is, as many may know, the CME
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: in tween launched a bitcoin derivative market. They have a
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: futures contract and an options contract. In December, the Bitcoin
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: options contract at Semi hit an all time high of
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  Speaker 1: one billion in monthly x three, and we're seeing a
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  Speaker 1: tremendous amount of up kicking volume on that CME venue.
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  Speaker 1: Whereas historically in the past, the majority of options and
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: derivatives volume had been on crypto native platforms, particularly those
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: based in the Asia Pacific region, we're now starting to
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: see a lot more participation in USD denominated markets tied
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: to the legacy banking system and access by institutions through
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: their existing scms and their existing brokerag providers. How do
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: you take a pair build him, mild him. I mean,
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: you know, obviously we quote bitcoin in terms of it
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: versus the US dollar. You talk about in versus tether
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  Speaker 1: and others. What what are the what are the options
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  Speaker 1: I suppose these days? Sure, so tether is a dollar, right,
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: Every tether is equal to a dollar. It's just that
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: the dollar is on a on a blockchain, so it
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: trades natively on chain. It's very similar to the concept
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: of the central bank digital currency, except for central bank
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: issuing it. In this instance, it's a private company issuing
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: it with the dollars held in reserve and collateral. And really,
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: I think the importance of the shift from tethered to
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: us D is an indication that more of the people
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  Speaker 1: who are accessing capital markets in crypto are coming from
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  Speaker 1: a bank accounts rather than being crypto native trading firms.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: So I think that's really the key insight for US there.
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: And in terms of trade pairs, you know, bitcoin is
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  Speaker 1: a very deep, very liquid market at this stage three
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: years ago not so deep, not so liquids, and today
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  Speaker 1: it's a twenty four seven global market. UM is quoted
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: primarily in us D, but obviously there are hundreds of
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: trade pairs and various currencies, but the us D trade
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  Speaker 1: pair is really the most prominent one, and that's certainly
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: the one we check at our firm. Extraordinary story, Milton,
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us. We really pre
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: getting the update and the update on the assets under management. Uh,
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: that is just extraordinary. Of the past twelve months. Meltem
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: Demere's chief strategy off for Coin Shares Group just really
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: Vanni just that the growth in and the depth of
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: the marketplace, as Meltem was mentioned to me, that's one
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: of the most oppressive things, the depth of the marketplace. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: I mean, you know, let's not forget a bitcoin itself
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  Speaker 1: is up three d thirty percent over the last twelve months,
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: so you know that accounts for for some of that.
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  Speaker 1: But also these are such tremendously volatile assets, Paul, you know, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: but as presumably as you talk to the bulls, as
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: this market becomes deeper and broader, uh, and and perhaps
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: more liquid with more players, that becomes a little bit
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: more stable, we'll see, and it's time to talk markets
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: once again. Now let's bring in Brent Shooty, chief Investment
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: Strategies for North will Western Mutual Wealth Management brand. It's
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: been quite a few months. It's been you know, crazy,
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: crazy times here in United States. The markets those seem
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: to obligely just gone higher and higher, at least equity markets,
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: and you know, more recently we've been getting a bit
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: of a shift in bond markets. What's that's what's the
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: main decision that you've had to make over the last
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: day four weeks. Well, I think your earlier comments about
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: kind of the markets moving higher and some of the
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: issues that are still out there, I want to point
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: out that the markets discount more into the future, and
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: so the markets are thinking about the end of COVID
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: nine king hopefully and I was getting back onto public
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: and those brighter days ahead in the future. And I
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: think that as you invest money, as you think about
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: those things. Um, certainly there has been some troubling data
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: out there's been some troubling things happen which have happened
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: in the last four weeks. But from an investment perspective,
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: I think it's important to point out that you always
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: need to be looking ahead, and I think the last
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: four weeks we've had to focus on that quite a bit,
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: making sure that we're looking ahead into hopefully the next
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: few months when the world looks just a bit brighter
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: and its operating on multiple centers that you're owth. So
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: I guess, in a way to your question, the last
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: four weeks, UM certainly looking at the data, but looking
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: ahead more so. And that's what the market is doing
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: right now. It's looking ahead to what happens in the future,
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: and it's seeing a brighter one ahead, all right, So
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: a brighter outlook ahead. Where are you going? Where are
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: you allocating capital? Brent Well? So, I think for the
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: last three years, technology growth stocks have been only game
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: in town and kind of ties into my cylinders of
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: growth commentary because I do think next year will be there.
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: This year, I should say, now we're in the new year,
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: um will be the first year in many actually three
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: that we've operated both in the US and the globe
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: on multiple cylinders of growth. And by that I mean
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: back in two thous eighteen we were kind of introduced
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: to the trade war that was designed to slow global growth,
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: and it was designed to harm manufacturing and exports around
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: the around the world, and that actually had a blowback
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: into the US. And so if you think about it,
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: technology was really unimpacted by that. It was the place
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: of earnings growth. Growth was narrow and the market was narrow.
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: Those two things were aligned as you look in the
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: one um that hopefully will be off the boil um.
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: So COVID, I should say, also kept that going. COVID
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  Speaker 1: actually in the beginning narrowed the economy narrow the market's
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: technology was kind of the only game in town. And
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: recently you've seen the market broaden out because the economy
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: is brought out, and so we continue to think that's
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: a backrop in That means that things that haven't done
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: as well, like cyclical stocks, like value stocks, like small
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: cap stocks which started doing better in Q four, will
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: continue to do well into the new year. And that's
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: where we're focusing most of our attention on. That's fascinating.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: So what kind of value plays are out there that
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: you see them well from a broad perspective. I we
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: we we use broad based et f s and mutual
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: funds for the most part, so we are investing along
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: the lines of just value stocks and some of those
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: sectors that have been harmed a lot. So I think
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: the financial stink energy UM think stocks that are just
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: cheaper than some of the growth stocks that have been
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: um bit up kind of because rates are low and
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: because their story. Stocks with a compelling future. I'm not
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: suggesting that future doesn't come to fruition. I just think
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: a year when you kind of get back to some
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: of the things are a bit more boring, like perhaps industrials, financials,
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: things where UM things that have been impacted for the
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: past few years because of some of these things that
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: are out there that have kept global growth from hiring
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: on all cylinders, which, as I mentioned before, I think
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: that alleviates so Brent, I guess the you know, one
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: of the issues for a lot of people as a
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: think about equity markets is market cap. The big cap
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: names you talked about have been such good stories for
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: a long time. And as we broaden out our view,
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: how are you viewing small cap mid cap stocks? Do
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: you do you still see UM? Is there opportunity there? Yes,
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: I mean I think they've certainly. I mean so in
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: the fourth quarter small and mid cap stocks and the
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: indextins we look at we're up twenties four and respectively.
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: I'm not suggesting that large caps aren't a bad story.
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: I think the SMP was up twelve. So it's not
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: that there isn't still opportunities within some of those other segments.
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: It's just that I think in all in mid cap
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: stocks and value stocks to that matter, have further room
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: to run. Look, growth versus value is at all time extremes,
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: and I think that's been logical for the reasons that
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: I mentioned. But as you think about think about more
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: monetary policies that that is not going to stop. They
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: have to have credibility in the future. They need to
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: persent inflation. The feds QUEI is designed to make you
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: take risk. Fiscal policymakers are not going to stop UM.
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: You have COVID hopefully alleviating its impact on the rest
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: of the economy. You have an inventory rebuild that has
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: to happen, and you have some pent up demand from
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: consumers who actually UM certainly in the aggregate, have saved money.
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: There's still are people who are in trouble and hopefully
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: stimulist gets them through and then they get jobs back.
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: But you have an economy that's going to be operating
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: on all cylinders, and to us, that means this recent
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: rotation that we have seen continues in because earnings growth
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: will broaden out and technology won't be the only game
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: in town. And so UM, that's where we're kind of focused.
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: Would you go so far then Brenda's to be short
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: some of these growth stocks, like a test for example. Now, UM,
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: that's not our ore. We are long term investors. We
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: take a long term approach and a long term out,
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: but we still own large cap stocks. Well, I suppose
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: what I'm really asking is do you think they're going
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: to settle off massively? You may not take a position
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: on it given what you do you know, but but
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: do you think they're going to sell off? No, I
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: don't know that there's a massive sell off out there.
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: And I think, and I've equated this in the past,
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: to let me make a caveat, I don't think things
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: in some of those stocks are anywhere near they were.
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: There are earnings, there are UM stories that are there
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: that are real versus what I think happened. I'm just
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: suggesting that investors a UM don't lose diversification because I
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: think right now the temptation is high to do so
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: because they've been emboldened by the past and be nudge
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: their portfolios UM in that direction because I think there's
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: the opportunity to add incremental performance above and beyond UM
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: what they would get by just taking you know, a
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: steady hold, buy and hold kind of perspective. Hey, Brent,
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining us again. We always appreciate
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: your perspective. Brent Shooty, chief investment strategist for the Northwestern
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: Mutual Wealth Management giving us his bullish call on the
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: markets for talking about that rotation trade, allocating a little
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: bit more to some of those UM growth I mean
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: the value stories cyclical names, maybe small caps as well.
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: It is time for Bloomberg Opinion. We're joined today by
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: Jonah Sarah. He's a Bloomberg Opinion columnist joining us. Joe's
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: out with a fascinating column today on a very important topic,
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: and that is what liability should the social media companies
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: like Twitter, like Facebook and others have for the content
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: that appears on their platform. And of course that is
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: absolutely front of in center right here. As President Trump
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: uh has been uh temporarily at least taken off of
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: both Facebook and Twitter for some issues as it relates
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: to last week's uprising. Uh in the Capital Joe, thanks
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: so much for joining us here. Love to get your
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: thoughts here, UM about this very important topic. UM well,
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: I've pretty brought a question. Um My, my core, my
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: core feeling is that, um, we just should not live
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: in a world where for Silicon Valley bros, you know
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: Tim named Tim and Mark and and and uh Jack
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: and and Sundar get to decide you know, who who
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: gets to be on their platform and who doesn't get
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: to be on their platform, or what kind of speech
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: I should say, gets to be on their platform. So
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: you know, there's a there's a fundamental problem there that
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: hasn't been solved. And um, you know, Facebook has fifteen
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: thousand content moderators and yet there's still all kinds of
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: hate speech on there. Obviously, this uprising was was in
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: no small part planned on Facebook, um and and Facebook
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: is always behind the curve and trying to get these things.
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: These things often in many cases leaves demand because they
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: don't violate their terms of service, and we barely know
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: what their terms of service are, so so continue No, no, no,
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: you go, you go your turn, All right, my turn.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: I was going to say, what responsibility exactly does the
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: likes of Mark Zuckerberg and his company, which is in
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: the private sector, it's not a government company, it's a
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: private company. How much responsibility does he and the company have? Well,
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: do you mean from a legal standpoint or do you
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: mean from a societal and moral standpoint? From a societal
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: and moral standpoint first, because I imagine some of the
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: reasons we saw these actions being taken in the last
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: few days is actually from a legal standpoint, not from
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: a societal standpoint. But that's you know, opinion aside. I
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: don't I don't think that's true. You don't think I mean,
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: the key thing is, see, they have no legal liability
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: because of section to thirty of the nineteen Communications Now
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: excuse me, the the Communications Decency Act of So they
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: have no legal responsibility because they are they they have
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: they have immunity. They're just viewed as a platform and
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: anybody can put anything on there and the person who
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: puts it on has the liability. Now, you know, I
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: think this is a huge, huge problem because it doesn't
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: give these guys any incentive to take off the incendiary
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: kind of uh posts that, on the one hand, are
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: been very damaging to American to our politics, and to
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: our cultural norms. But on the other hand, they drive traffic,
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: they make money for the companies, so the companies don't
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: have a ton of incentive to take that stuff off.
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: Um and, So you know, my argument really is comes
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: down to this. You know, if you're a farmer company,
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: one of the reasons you want your drugs to work,
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: not the only reasons, but one of them is because
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: if they don't, you're gonna get sued to smithereen and
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: and and that helps keep companies in line. Um and
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: and and if Facebook and Twitter, and Apple and Amazon
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: all had the same um uh, the possibility of of
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: of of lawsuits, it would I believe change the way
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: they think and act about um about what they have online. Joe,
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: what do you think the appetite is within Washington to
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: eliminate Section to thirty of the Communications Act. I think
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: it's pretty high. Actually, um all the Republicans wanted, although
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: they wanted for a stupid reason. Um. They want it
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: because they think of it as a way to punish
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: the tech companies, especially Facebook and Twitter, because they claim
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: that you know, the conservative views don't get are censored,
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: which is bologny, which is just bologny. Um uh. But
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: but you know, there are a lot of Democrats who
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: have come around to this, to it too. I mean,
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: it's not it's not a slam dunk, but um uh.
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: There is a sense that something has to change and
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: that you can't keep pounting on Twitter and Spacebook to
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: to do this themselves because they just they don't have
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: the manpower and they don't really have the They're not
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: they don't have the willingness. So um so that's that's
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: what the issue is. Maybe. I mean, if somebody could
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: figure out a way to modify Section to thirty so
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: it creates some legal liability liability, um without getting rid
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: of it entirely, I think that would be a great solution. Well,
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: here's one for you. Don't go ahead. I mean, it's
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: not unlimited this immunity. It's specifically accept federal criminal liability.
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: So what if someone gets up there and argues that,
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: you know, across states people were planning to meet and
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: carry out violence on members of Congress last Wednesday? Is
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: that I mean, there's potential federal liability there they there is,
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: absolutely that's a very very narrow slice of the stuff.
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: That's on Twitter and Facebook. That's wrong. Um, for instance,
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: you know you can you can put anti Semitic slurs
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: on their kingdom. Come you can? You could until until
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: this year, you could be a holocaust and I are
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: on Facebook, so you know, and those things. There's there's
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: no there's no legal liability. The amount of legal liability,
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: you know, is very very narrow for these companies. You're right,
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: if a crime is being planned on Facebook and Facebook
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: don't do anything about it, that's the problem. But but
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: as a general rule, there's no legal liability. Joe, what
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: do you expect the response from Silicon valid to be
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: to some of this mounting pressure for regulating speech. Well,
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: I think they actually they're not going to be a
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: favorite eliminating to thirty, but they if you actually there's
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: a company called Axios, which I'm sure you've heard of,
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: which is an online site that's very aimed at the
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: water intend movers and shakers. Facebook advertises on that side
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: all the time, and their advertisements always say we want
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: to be regulated, it needs to be further regulated. What
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: they really want is for the federal government to take
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: this problem off their hands so that there are you know,
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: so that it becomes a government mandate that certain certain
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: speech has to be removed. So they don't they don't
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: feel like, you know, there there it's on them that
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: it's their decision. Um. So actually is the appetite is
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: higher than it's It's higher than you might think. Joe,
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: it's a great column. There's so much nuance in here,
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: and I urge everybody to rush out there and read
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: Jona Sarah's column today in bloom Reig Opinion. He is,
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: of course that the Jonah Sarah, but he's also a
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: bloom Big opinion columnists these days. Under today's column is
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: revoke social media's shield. But for the right reasons to
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: their Facebook and other platforms won't get serious about cleaning
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: up content until they face liability. It makes a great point,
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: Paul about how you know it's only now twelve days
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: before the end of the Tom presidency that you know
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: Twitter and Facebook are actually booting him off. You know,
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: it does seem the timing is not lost on a
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: lot of people. Yeah, yeah, it could definitely be a
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: little bit cynical about it. All right, it is time
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: to have a conversation about the climate. And you can
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: be absolutely sure that under John Kerry. Assuming that he
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: is the next climates are and that that all goes
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: ahead without any problems, we will have a very different
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: approach in this country to climate. Remy really was one
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: of the negotiators for the Paris Climate Agreement and he
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: joins us now. Remy, first of all, what's your anticipation
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: for when John carry takes office and how it will
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: manifest itself. It's a new post hivony hipole Yes from France.
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: Pleasure to be to be with you and to see
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: the momentum growing in the US behind climate. John ker
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: was the key actor of the Paris Agreement. I clearly
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: remember when I was the chief negotiater on finance back
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: in in twenty fifteen, and so a lot of of course,
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: a lot of expectations to see the US back on
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: board and very active domestically of course, but also on
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: the international stage. So, Remy, give us a sense, as
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: one of the negotiators and architects of the Paris Agreement,
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: why is it so important disagreement for climate change? And
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: what's really the focus right now for uh this agreement? Well,
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: we all know we have to do our homework in
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: each and every country for energy transition to change the
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: way we invest in housing, but that the emissions are
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: going everywhere and so we we need absolutely need to
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: common framework and way more international cooperation with the Chinese, is, Europeans,
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: with African countries. And that's what the Paris Agreement was about,
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: a common framework with a clear mechanism, with a ratchet
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: close never expanding ambition. And this is what we will
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: discuss this year in Glasgow by November, headed by the
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: UK Government with CUP twenty six, five years after the
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: Paris Agreement, we will take stock of where we stand
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: and hopefully increase ambition. And that's for the voice of
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: John Kerry, the voice of Brian D's, the voice of
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: Jonathan Pershing, the whole team that is back in business
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: will be so important. Are they speaking to corporate America,
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: Corporate France, corporate Germany and whatever country you know we
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: might be talking about, or are they actually speaking to
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: the governments. What can governments do? Um An interesting point
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: in the Paris Agreement and the way the French Monment
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: at that time organized the discussion is that it was
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: not a classic inter governmental UN discussion. We tried to
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: expand and you're financial Radio, so we tried to light
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: up each segment of the financial sectors at that time
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: and then we can measure what is happening. So see
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: what the green ball market became in five years, and
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: we certainly will go away farther in the coming months
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: and years. And so yes, the private sector, private financiers,
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: private corporations are key in this effort. But you need
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: the instruments to lenk public and private, of course, and
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: that's that's what public development banks are about, remy. One
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: of the first moves from President Trump and his administration
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: was to pull the U S out of the Parish agreement.
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: What were the practical ramifications for that? Uh move? What
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: good news is that it takes two years to really
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: come out of such an agreement. So the real so
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: there was still the US team in the negotiation for
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: for for the last few years, and since the President
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: elect Biden decided to come back, there will be no
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: no interruption in the US in the negotiation. But of
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: course the decision had a lot of consequence on the
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: on the momentum, and hopefully there was the American pledge
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: with the cities, with NGOs, with corporations taking the home
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: and and doing more and now we expect the government
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: to come back. So you were just offering us a
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: little opening there. Ramy. You are a chair of the
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: International Development Finance Club, and you just mentioned how you
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: know international banks and into governmental banks are very necessary
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: when it comes to things like climate agreements and so on.
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: How does your International Development Finance Club play a part
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: in all of this. Well, in the way Europe, Asia,
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: Latin America, Africa developed and is now fighting against climate
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: change and against inequalities, you have at the center of
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: our economic system a public financial body, public development banks.
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: Remember in the US during the thirties you had this
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: Reconstruction Finance Corporation that was the instrument the federal public
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: instruments at the end of President Roosevelt to come out
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: of the crisis. And so we decided last November to
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: gather them all. There are four hundred and fifty public
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: development banks in the world. It amounts to two point
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: three trillion dollar investments each year, so that's ten percent
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: of global total investments that are public and to work collectively.
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: And so we we are expecting, we are dreaming and
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: having again us counterpart Senator Mark here. You know so
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: active behind the Green New deal was present at this
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: Finance in Common summit, and he supported the Finance in
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: Common coalition and we will pursue in twenty one and
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: certainly a liaise with all US colleagues to do more Remy,
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: how has the pandemic, the global pandemic, impacted the mission
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: of the Paris Agreement. Uh, well, the pandemic, of course
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: is slowing down international cooperation and that's where it's so
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: important to rely on national forces. So of course, now
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: we have the global framework, the Paris Agreement, that is
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: still alive and very active and probably more vibrant than
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: in the previous years. But we need to have a
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: lives we need to afforce is, we need to have
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: institutions in each and every constituency. Because the DSDGS, the
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: Sustainable Development Goals, the Paris Agreement, it's not about international affairs.
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: It's really about the way we produce, the way we consume,
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: the way we live and what we have to change.
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: And you well, we know we have to do it
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: in France. You know you have to do it in
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: the US. And certainly that was part of the debate
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: in the discussion. And now we have to join forces
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: and do it together. Remy Reyou, thank you so much
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: for joining us. Remy Reyu Chair International Development Finance Club,
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: also a Paris Agreement negotiator and UM a vantage to
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: be very eating to see how quickly the U s
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: re engages in this Paris Agreement. UM when the President
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: elect takes office on January twoine clearly as a big
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: part of uh Mr Biden's campaign to re engage with
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: on a global scale of our partners to fight climate change.
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg Markets podcast. You can
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: subscribe and listen to interviews at Apple Podcasts or whatever
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: a podcast platform you prefer. I'm Bonnie Quinn. I'm on
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: Twitter at Bonnie Quinn, and I'm Paul Sweeney. I'm on
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: Twitter at pt Sweeney. Before the podcast, you can always
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: catch us worldwide at Bloomberg Radio.